# Best flatbands for Ocularis Beanflip/Black Widow/Diablo?



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

Hi Guys,

As title really, i've only ever shot Barnett Diablos and Black Widows with the stock natural/red Barnett tubes and would like to try shooting with Theraband gold as it looks like you get better control over draw weight and ammo sizes depending on whether you go for single or double, tapered and untapered etc.

I'd like to try fitting them to my Barnett frames but I also really like the look of the Simpleshot Ocularis frames so was thinking of getting one of those too.

Can someone advise me what kind of flat bands would be best to start with? I'm shooting targets at 10 to 20 yards with 3/8" - 1/2" steel BBs. Thanks!


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

I think going with an ocularis or any set up made for flats is going to give you better results. I've tried attaching flats to metal tube frames and they don't seem to shoot near as hard. I use tapered tbg single layer but the set ups really vary depending on what your after and what style you shoot. Here is a link I hope it helps for matching ammo to bands. 




Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks for the link, I ordered an Ocularis Beanflip last night :king:

Will have a look at a few more YouTube vids and then get some bandsets ordered too


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

I have a bean flip. It's a great frame. If your going to shoot alot you should look into building your own sets. I break 1-2 sets on the days I shoot. Mine are set up 1"-3/4"taper at 525% stretch with a 65" draw with 7/16 ammo. Sometimes I use 3/8 ammo if its cold but my sets don't last long with that kind of stress on them. I can shoot really far with a flat trajectory and relatively light pull though


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

J3553 said:


> I have a bean flip. It's a great frame. If your going to shoot alot you should look into building your own sets. I break 1-2 sets on the days I shoot. Mine are set up 1"-3/4"taper at 525% stretch with a 65" draw with 7/16 ammo. Sometimes I use 3/8 ammo if its cold but my sets don't last long with that kind of stress on them. I can shoot really far with a flat trajectory and relatively light pull though


Glad you like the Beanflip, it will be interesting to see how I get on with it after only having shot with braced frames; one of the reasons I wanted it was for the fork-supported hold.

Making my own sets might be what I end up doing, it looks like the startup cost will be a bit expensive buying the TBG, rotary cutter/mat etc. but you probably save in the long run and can try a lot of different combinations


----------



## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

HOTSHOT III said:


> Making my own sets might be what I end up doing, it looks like the startup cost will be a bit expensive buying the TBG, rotary cutter/mat etc. but you probably save in the long run and can try a lot of different combinations


It isn't cheap but not too expensive if you shop around and get a few deals on the hardware.

I don't know the cost difference in the long run, but know the satisfaction and pride of making it entirely yourself, all handmade, is something you can't put a price on.

Here is my first, fully complete and banded up. It is as simple as can be compared to 99% of the slingshots on here but I'm walking around proud as a peacock around my house.


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

The bean flip is my favorite out of the ocularis designs. I also really like the torque. Here is a link to some of my stuff.


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

J3553 said:


> The bean flip is my favorite out of the ocularis designs. I also really like the torque. Here is a link to some of my stuff.


Excellent vid!!


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks man


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

No worries J3553, that's some impressive shooting. I shoot at 20m myself but up to now i've only used an archery type draw.

Do you have any tips for accurately using a long draw?


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

That's kind of a tough one. Most of my practice is between 20 and 30m. Butterfly has no anchor and requires alot of muscle memory and practice to get down. I really don't see anyone who does it like I do with thumb on bottom and no pouch twisting/tweeking. I don't know if I'm the best person to be giving advice on butterfly tho. I did start out partial and slowly worked my way out from there. I will warn you I have been face slapped 4 times 2 of them were from pouch curl and 2 of them were from trying something different. All of them really hurt but the last one looked like someone hit me in the face with a bullwhip and made me bleed pretty good. For power and flat trajectory I don't think you can beat that style but just be prepared that even tiny mistakes in pouch hold will not be fork hits anymore they will be face hits lol. Here is the master of butterfly this guy is smooth.


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

shit wrong vid sorry.


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

wrong one again. hold on let me find it


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

Alright here it is


----------



## Samurai Samoht (Apr 6, 2013)

I think you will really like the Beanflip, I know I sure do! I'm gonna have to get Simpleshots new plugs and give them a try.


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

SamuraiSamoht said:


> I think you will really like the Beanflip, I know I sure do! I'm gonna have to get Simpleshots new plugs and give them a try.


I ordered a few spare plugsets at the same time. What's the difference between the old and new plugs?


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

the new ones work with looped tubes and the hole goes all the way through. The older style can be real tough to get the steel out. I put a small hole in mine with a punch so I could poke out the steel from the back. works really good


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

the new ones work with looped tubes and the hole goes all the way through. The older style can be real tough to get the steel out. I put a small hole in mine with a punch so I could poke out the steel from the back. works really good


----------



## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

J3553, you are one excellent shot amigo... full BF and smack down at 20 m. Doing the math, you have to have "muscle memory" keen as anything... a 1 mm difference/error in your pouch hold - up/down/right/left will miss a can at that distance. You have a micrometer built into your nervous system! Great video, quite inspiring for those of us like myself who some mornings can't hit a bull in the butt with a banjo.

As to flats on wire frames, I've had excellent results. Have a Marksman and a Tru Mark, both with flats (can't get tubes here at all in Ecuador). Right now with draw of 31", I'm using 2 cm wide TBG non taper on my Marksman and Alliance Sterling on my Tru Mark. The TBG seems to do better...it is not as thick , more flimsy, and I think contracts more uniformly (theory only since I don't have a slo mo cam) than the Alliance...that could be the reason I seem to get more accuracy out of TBG than Alliance. But don't get me wrong, the Alliance is fine...am not trying for the nth degree here (the Chuck isn't good enough to even worry about it!).

I have mounted the flats using both rubber tubing cuffs (I CAN get latex medical tourniquet tubing but it's so strong to pull it's impractical). Also tieing the flats. I also reinforced the cuffs with TBG ties over them to make dang sure the bands don't come loose and smack me in the kisser (or eye).

Back on track, I found that flats on wire frames did fine. My Marksman is the arm braced model and is a "shuttle craft" type...hits harder than anything else due to longer draw due to the extended fork feature. With those TBGs it's wicked smack down without butterfly...only to the ear draw length.

I would try, say, three band widths and try tapered vs non tapered. Make your pouch the minimal width and length to save mass and air resistance...flutter futter for highest velocity and more accuracy. I've experimented with an hour glass pouch design that's less width in the middle than on the ends where the bands attach (so they don't tear out). Once you've tried the band width options and tapered options there will be a "sweet spot" in there somewhere for a given ammo.

I find that ammo mass has a lot to do with accuracy with a given band/pouch set up...just like with firearms..bullet weight has a lot to do with accuracy at long range with a given powder type and charge...and the way to find the sweet spot is simply to experiment...same with slingshots or ANYTHING that launches a projectile.

I remember in the army we studied some slo mo movies of different types of projectiles (nick named "projos") leaving the muzzle of howitzers. Some wobbled pretty bad right out of the barrel, some didn't. Obviously the ones that didn't wobble were more accurate. "H.E." (high explosive) TNT projos were most stable whereas white phosphorous was wobbly...something with the center of gravity. Point being ammo mass and elastic's properties are dang important to accuracy.

Periodically I post this video, a slo mo of bands and pouch upon release. Notice that the tweeked pouch straightens up in just a few inches, meaning the tweek or twist is nullified pretty quickly and actually has little if any effect...at least that is what I get from the video. Yet PFS shooters swear by the twist/tweek method to prevent unwanted hand/frame hits. You be the judge. The vid is of flat bands.






Note the flat bands wrinkle towards the end of their retraction and don't contract in a straight line, and that the ball exits (2:08 and 2:20 and 2:39 for examples)) the pouch BEFORE it gets to the forks and frame. Air resistance slows down the pouch really fast when the bands are done contracting...hence my hour glass design to present the minimum profile to the air to reduce resistance the most.

You might download this vid and keep it handy to review and show others...or bookmark/favorite the link. It's been on youtube for a few years.


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

Thanks Chuck. Its always hard to explain to people how its done. Some days I have a hard time pulling that off consistently other days I can do the same thing at 30m.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

Well my made up flatbands arrived today and I fitted a set to a Black Widow frame to do some experimental shooting.

As you can see I started with OTT 20mm singles, first impressions are when trimmed for 525% stretch for my 34" (archery style) draw they have (judging by the size of the dents in my catch box target) at least as much power as stock Barnett tubes with a much easier draw.

RE Accuracy i'm not sure, at 10m indoors I can normally hit anything with my Pro Diablo so after scoring 3/6 a few times with the TBG/Widow combo I tried the Diablo and didn't get a single hit, maybe because I swam a long distance earlier and my shoulders have had enough for today. Also the pouch is completely different from Barnett pouches and is taking some getting used to. I'll have another go tomorrow.

Thanks everyone for the help and advice!!!


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

I think you will have better luck with the bean flip. That set up ( at least for me) seemed to bunch the bands up before the shot leaves the slingshot rather than flip ott at full power.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

Very insightful video Chuck. I have not seen that one but I have seen some other slo mo vids on the same thing. I have been practicing twist and tweek alot lately and even though it does not appear relevant in slow motion it does make a big difference on point of impact. This really gets the point across of matching bands with ammo tho. To heavy of a draw and the ammo leaves early without the force it could have. I always judge by the hand slap. If it hits you're hands hard your not matched. Another big thing not really mentioned alot is temperature. Hotter means faster. I switch ammo with the same band sets for a 20deg difference in temp. Some days 7/16 gives me the same results as 1/2 on a hotter day. As far as twist and tweek I tend to agree that it doesn't matter. I do both and just to prove that you can shoot pfs without twist and tweek I made a bareback vid without doing either.


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)




----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

J3553 said:


> I think you will have better luck with the bean flip. That set up ( at least for me) seemed to bunch the bands up before the shot leaves the slingshot rather than flip ott at full power.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


I marked the bands when fitting them to get them the same length and looking at the resulting ink smudges on other parts of the bands, that's exactly what's happening.

Still all things considered it's not bad, I tried it outdoors today and hit a Coke can a few times at 10 and 15 metres. I just can't believe the lightness of the draw in comparison to tubes (originally I started slingshot shooting as a stepping stone to archery because a slingshot draw works the same muscle between your shoulderblades as drawing a bow so I think i'll have to keep practicing with the Barnett tubes as well!).

I've now ordered some stuff to make my own bandsets (bulk TBG, rotary cutter and mat, pouches etc.), after crunching the numbers i'm amazed how much cheaper it is than buying made up sets. Allows unlimited experimentation too, I feel like i've started a whole new hobby!


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

It gets addictive.

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


----------



## Samurai Samoht (Apr 6, 2013)

J3553 said:


> The bean flip is my favorite out of the ocularis designs. I also really like the torque. Here is a link to some of my stuff.


Some nice shooting right there! Subbed!


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/46238-band-jigs-for-blue-skeen/
Just ordered one of these. If you're gonna cut alot of flats this looks like the way to go

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/40958-btoon-band-jigs-for-sale-again-now-with-18-jigs/


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

J3553 said:


> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/40958-btoon-band-jigs-for-sale-again-now-with-18-jigs/


That looks tempting. I'm also thinking through the easiest way to make a pouch tying jig.

As long as I can make some soft jaws for my bench vice which won't damage the bands i'll then probably make something with a 5-6mm dia. post sticking up vertically to hook the pouch onto which can be screwed to the bench next to the vice. Not ideal because it means i'll have to do one side at a time but at least they'll still end up symmetrical.

Eventually i'll make one of these:


----------



## J3553 (Nov 11, 2015)

mine looks alot like his except with spring clamps. I went back and forth with wrap and tuck and constrictor knots for tieing bands. Can't really tell which one gives longer band life but the constrictor knot is easier and lighter so I pretty much stick to it anymore


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

I just looked up the constrictor knot on YouTube, looks like it has the potential to make the ties a bit lighter


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

These arrived from the States yesterday and i'm well pleased.

Not had much time to practice yet but after 1 hour's shooting time i've had 6 hits out of 6 on a Coke can at 10 metres, 1st time shooting unbraced with a fork-supported hold!

Many thanks to Nathan Masters whose prompt shipping meant the package reached the UK 3 days after placing the order. No thanks whatsoever to UK customs who took 8 days to clear it, a new record!!


----------



## HOTSHOT III (Jan 23, 2016)

Thanks for the likes guys, BTW here are some pics of my band tying jig.

Very bulky as you can see but the vice had no real use as it came with recessed plastic jaws when new (long since departed!) so I attached some wooden/plastic jaws with Shoe Goo to make use of it and it clamps the Theraband well without damaging it. Eventually i'll make one like Gamekeeper John's so I can tie both ends at once.

Works pretty well for now though, made up some 20mm straights and 30-15mm and 30-20mm tapers this morning


----------

