# Slingshots for Self-Defense



## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

So, this is probably ridiculous, but the other night I was out in the park after dark and took along my F16 and some marbles just in case. I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and a Colt 1911, but both of them are too large for me to carry concealed comfortably (say that 3 times fast)! The F16 is just a slingshot, but a marble moving 200 fps has to sting enough to make a bad guy think twice. Plus if you shoot someone with a firearm your life is going to go topsy turvy for (at least) a few years waiting out the criminal charges and civil suits and the trauma of maybe ending someone's life, but hopefully a slingshot hit would just make someone run away and you'd never have to deal with them again. Could be the difference between patting yourself on the back after an encounter or having to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay off the 'victim.' So I'm not thinking the F16 will replace a firearm by any means, but it's something that's easy to carry and should provide 'some' personal defense. That's the theory, anyway. Anyone else ever carry a slingshot for self-defense?

Hope you're all having a good week! (If it violates any forum rules to post a pic of a firearm I'm happy to remove them.)








vs.







vs.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

I actually don't, I just carry pepper and a knife occasionally.
but... if so I would take flatbands and a small frame like the wasp stinger. very small but you can put on some powerful bands for sure. In winter, if the mugger wears a thick coat or jacket, it needs a bit force i suppose. And if you don't want to hit as hard, lets say in summer time, you don't need full draw...

small badass:





by the way, I'm wondering about his bandsets.
I think the should be twisted, so they form a V-shape (not an A), or the ammo will rebound?


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## Hoss (Jun 3, 2014)

I would say unless you shoot the guy in the eye you better be ready to fight or be able to out run him.

Sent from my SM-A426U1 using Tapatalk


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## cromag (Jan 17, 2021)

This subject popped up a while back to some mixed reviews. My response was to make what I thought a self defense frame would look like. With this frame after you shot someone and they were advancing toward you to kick your azz I reasoned you might be able to poke them in the eye before running.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

I don’t think I could personally recommend a flip for self defense unless you were being attacked by relatively slow moving soup cans. And then only if you knew they were coming..The same thing would apply to my crossbow. It can shoot through a car door, but it takes 30 seconds to reload the dang thing.


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

That's a real nice design, *Chicxulub! *Good job on that one. And a shout out to your baby chicks!

Hey Hoss - I teach Tai Chi so as long as my attacker is willing to fight in slow motion I'm all set! lol


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

It's not me of course... I'm from your neighbour country 😅
our weapon laws suck. now they even want to ban blank guns. 🤢


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

*Cromag*, also a really nice design. Reloading would be a def problem with a slingshot. I like the sharp end!

*Sandstorm* - this made me laugh out loud: "...unless you were being attacked by relatively slow moving soup cans. And then only if you knew they were coming." 😄


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

Chicxulub said:


> It's not me of course... I'm from your neighbour country 😅
> our weapon laws suck. now they even want to ban blank guns. 🤢


Hello from your neighbor to the South!


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

I like the netherlands... greets


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Dee Based said:


> *Cromag*, also a really nice design. Reloading would be a def problem with a slingshot. I like the sharp end!
> 
> *Sandstorm* - this made me laugh out loud: "...unless you were being attacked by relatively slow moving soup cans. And then only if you knew they were coming." 😄


Oh good I was certainly hoping I wouldn’t offend lol. You know, if Cromag’s sling came with silver ammo it’d be perfect for relatively slow moving vampires AND werewolves!

Never a bad idea to carry a flip with ya though I’d say. Just like a pocket knife. (Depending on your locale of course)

Cromag I want that slingshot now! 😂

chicxulub the angry face was for the gun laws of course.


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

No offense at all! And don't forget that TWD has proven that slingshots are awesome tools for the upcoming Zombie Apocalypse! (Especially the B52, apparently)!

*Chicxulub, *mind if I ask where you're from? I'm actually from Phoenix, Az but my VPN is set for the Netherlands right now. It's where my distant relatives hail from, though.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

Lol, ok!
From south-west of germany.
Sadly I've never been to the US myself, just was in the desert of arizona or nevada (??) in my moms belly, lol. near to the trinity bomb site?
If I could easily emigrate to the US I would do.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Dee Based said:


> No offense at all! And don't forget that TWD has proven that slingshots are awesome tools for the upcoming Zombie Apocalypse! (Especially the B52, apparently)!
> 
> 
> View attachment 358134


Well, I mean, why do you think I own a crossbow? 😉🤣 Relatively slow moving zombies, of course!









I get this feeling a few members are shaking their heads in disappointment right now… rightfully so.. rightfully so.


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

Hahaha. As Crocodile Dundee might say: "Now THAT'S a slingshot!"


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

I haven't recognised a slingshot too, but it would have fit in nicely.
edit: ah ok...


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

I was very pumped until I found out high speed crossbow targets cost about as much as the crossbow did.


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## Pebble Shooter (Mar 29, 2014)

A slingshot for self defense? Only as the very last option on the long list of better options - although I suppose it does depend on the type of slingshot being carried, and whether it's useful as a hitting tool, like this design:






Piaoyu-Stainless-Steel-big-Hand-Held


Piaoyu-Stainless-Steel-big-Hand-Held



www.alibaba.com





If firearms are not an option because of increasingly stringent legislation (although the US is generally very tolerant with regard to handguns, unlike Europe), it seems to me that a can of pepper spray, or a sturdy telescopic steel baton is the way to go for a strike hard & run away fast type of scenario. As a close combat weapon, knives are possibly more of a risk than a benefit in the wrong hands.

Something worth looking at if available in the US is the so-called "guardian angel" made by the Swiss company Piexon - see here: https://www.guardian-angel.com/en/

Apparently it's very efficient, and it's what we are allowed to carry in Switzerland for self defense. Some "hot sauce" in the face of the attacker will give you plenty of time to make a speedy getaway. No legal complications with this approach.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Pebble Shooter said:


> A slingshot for self defense? Only as the very last option on the long list of better options - although I suppose it does depend on the type of slingshot being carried, and whether it's useful as a hitting tool, like this design:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Looks like a very good option even for your gun wielding manic brothers (joke) here in the states to be honest. More portable than bear spray.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Dee Based said:


> So, this is probably ridiculous, but the other night I was out in the park after dark and took along my F16 and some marbles just in case. I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and a Colt 1911, but both of them are too large for me to carry concealed comfortably (say that 3 times fast)! The F16 is just a slingshot, but a marble moving 200 fps has to sting enough to make a bad guy think twice. Plus if you shoot someone with a firearm your life is going to go topsy turvy for (at least) a few years waiting out the criminal charges and civil suits and the trauma of maybe ending someone's life, but hopefully a slingshot hit would just make someone run away and you'd never have to deal with them again. Could be the difference between patting yourself on the back after an encounter or having to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay off the 'victim.' So I'm not thinking the F16 will replace a firearm by any means, but it's something that's easy to carry and should provide 'some' personal defense. That's the theory, anyway. Anyone else ever carry a slingshot for self-defense?
> 
> Hope you're all having a good week! (If it violates any forum rules to post a pic of a firearm I'm happy to remove them.)
> 
> ...


What park in the Phoenix area do you need to worry about defending yourself ? I live in the area . I'll need to avoid that park . I'm from Chicago originally so Phoenix is like Disney Land to me .


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Here’s a very bad video on the guardian angel if anyone had an interest.
Kimber puts it out here in the states.


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

_"I was very pumped until I found out high speed crossbow targets cost about as much as the crossbow did." - Sandstorm. _

Wow. And I thought .45 ammo was expensive!

*Pebble Shooter:* I have seen those and they look like a great, non-lethal alternative to a firearm. I've been really close to pulling the trigger (pun intended) on one and probably will, now that you've reminded me. People also forget about the threat of animals - especially loose dogs. I'm a dog lover, but there've been a few pit bulls that would've DESTROYED me if they broke out of their fenced in yards!


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

There are many different pepper guns some CO2 powered which will be painful and have pepper spray effects. But if you are aware that the attacker is approaching and have a good distance between you two, a shot from a sling will definitely stop someone depending on where you hit that is. Even with a sweatshirt on.


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## Dee Based (Nov 9, 2021)

_"But if you are aware that the attacker is approaching and have a good distance between you two, a shot from a sling will definitely stop someone depending on where you hit that is."_ - Jcharmin92

I agree with this too JC92, and you bring up good points. Especially if it's dark out, you'd want to be very aware of your surroundings (always necessary), and then call out to any strangers approaching that you have a weapon (which you're pulling out and loading) and will use it if they come any closer. Hopefully they change course, but if not, you now have your slingshot ready to fire, instead of fumbling around with it after they're too close.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Just make sure your slingshot doesn’t have any sharp edges. So when your attacker takes it away from you and shoves it up your butt it won’t hurt so bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

The slingshot is not suitable for self-defense, this has already been discussed on the forum. For an untrained person, the best option would be a gas canister. 
However, the slingshot shown by cromag might be an interesting option in countries where the law prohibits carrying a cubotan but allows carrying a slingshot. At any rate, the policeman would have less reason to ask stupid questions.


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

It's not good for self defense obviously. All I am saying is if shot by one it will stop/slow a person down unless this person is on pcp or what have you.


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## Pebble Shooter (Mar 29, 2014)

I recently picked up this slingshot because of its rather intriguing design.





__





Cnc Finger Tiger Flat Leather Slingshot Fast Pressing Stainless Steel Outdoor Competitive Outdoor Recurve Handle Slingshot - Buy Slingshot,Shooting Slingshot,Stainless Steel Catapult Product on Alibaba.com


Cnc Finger Tiger Flat Leather Slingshot Fast Pressing Stainless Steel Outdoor Competitive Outdoor Recurve Handle Slingshot - Buy Slingshot,Shooting Slingshot,Stainless Steel Catapult Product on Alibaba.com



www.alibaba.com





Very nicely made of sandblasted 304 stainless steel, and possibly quite effective as a striking instrument given its weight (342 grams, or 12 ounces). That, however, is not why I purchased it.


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

Pebble Shooter said:


> and possibly quite effective as a striking instrument given its weight


 Perhaps if you unscrew the handle. But separately the handle is a typical bludgeoning weapon (this is according to the classification of Russian law), and again we have problems with the law.  If the fork could be detached instantly, at the push of a button, that would be interesting.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

same in germany.

@Valery Is it true, that your airguns, free to buy are also limited to only 7,5J energy?


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## Karloshi (Apr 6, 2021)

If firing the slingshot in self defence there wont be much evidence linking you to the shooting unlike if you fire a gun. Especially if no one sees you fire and the ball is clean of dna.

Sent from my SM-J330F using Tapatalk


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

Chicxulub said:


> same in germany.
> 
> @Valery Is it true, that your airguns, free to buy are also limited to only 7,5J energy?


 Yes.
Up to 3 Joules, no restrictions. The law defines these toys as "structurally similar to weapons" and does not consider them weapons.
From 3 to 7.5 Joules - only in 4.5 mm caliber and only for persons over 18 years of age. It is possible to buy only on presentation of a passport.
Above 7.5 Joules - only by license. Requirements are the same as for firearms.
Any pneumatic weapon with a power over 25 Joules is prohibited.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Dee Based said:


> So, this is probably ridiculous, but the other night I was out in the park after dark and took along my F16 and some marbles just in case. I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and a Colt 1911, but both of them are too large for me to carry concealed comfortably (say that 3 times fast)! The F16 is just a slingshot, but a marble moving 200 fps has to sting enough to make a bad guy think twice. Plus if you shoot someone with a firearm your life is going to go topsy turvy for (at least) a few years waiting out the criminal charges and civil suits and the trauma of maybe ending someone's life, but hopefully a slingshot hit would just make someone run away and you'd never have to deal with them again. Could be the difference between patting yourself on the back after an encounter or having to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay off the 'victim.' So I'm not thinking the F16 will replace a firearm by any means, but it's something that's easy to carry and should provide 'some' personal defense. That's the theory, anyway. Anyone else ever carry a slingshot for self-defense?
> 
> Hope you're all having a good week! (If it violates any forum rules to post a pic of a firearm I'm happy to remove them.)
> 
> ...


It all depends on how you're defending yourself, if it is in a home setting then I would use reasonable force which is actually legal, however, for those who might use a catty see this video, because the wrong type of ammo would require medical intervention.






I would not want to be a theif or anyone on the end of 12.00mm leads.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

Valery said:


> Yes.
> Up to 3 Joules, no restrictions. The law defines these toys as "structurally similar to weapons" and does not consider them weapons.
> From 3 to 7.5 Joules - only in 4.5 mm caliber and only for persons over 18 years of age. It is possible to buy only on presentation of a passport.
> Above 7.5 Joules - only by license. Requirements are the same as for firearms.
> Any pneumatic weapon with a power over 25 Joules is prohibited.


our laws are quite similar.
but only up 0,5J (!!) no restrictions if youre at least 14yo.
with 18 up to 7,5J with passport.
It sucks...
italy has also this 7,5J limit.
in most EU countries its much easier to have at least more power or almost no restrictions or even real firearms without a lot of bureaucracy.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

The Apprentice said:


> It all depends on how you're defending yourself, if it is in a home setting then I would use reasonable force which is actually legal, however, for those who might use a catty see this video, because the wrong type of ammo would require medical intervention.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Human living flesh is stronger than turkey or chicken. Just to consider...


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

Chicxulub said:


> our laws are quite similar.


 
There is reason to believe that many of the regulations were simply copied by our "lawmakers" from European laws.
At the same time, the slingshot is not covered by laws at all, and has no restrictions whatsoever. And any teenager can get 10 Joules of energy with a slingshot without straining.


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## devils son in law (Sep 2, 2014)

cromag said:


> This subject popped up a while back to some mixed reviews. My response was to make what I thought a self defense frame would look like. With this frame after you shot someone and they were advancing toward you to kick your azz I reasoned you might be able to poke them in the eye before running.
> View attachment 358133


Wait......you put a pointed end on a frame to stab someone in self defense? 
Once I bounce that marble off his head I'm shaggin' a$$ if he has a more powerful weapon than me, I'm not getting closer! 
Sure is a pretty frame cromag!!!


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

Valery said:


> There is reason to believe that many of the regulations were simply copied by our "lawmakers" from European laws.
> At the same time, the slingshot is not covered by laws at all, and has no restrictions whatsoever. And any teenager can get 10 Joules of energy with a slingshot without straining.


Even a lot more. look at this tiny fella:






🔥🔥🔥


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

I think a slingshot is in such an scenario not usefull or effective at all. Way too slow, pulling out + drawing (if steel/lead ball even in pouch ) the sling will take too long.

Personally would recommend a blade, I have at least one 24/7 with me.
An OTF knife would be very handy. Pulling it out and firing a few times will let an attacker/thief whatever think again if it is an good idea to f#ck with you.

Also there are very nice lighter cases for BIC's, not much force needed to remodel someone's face with that. Without hurting your own hand.

Here's a pic of the be spoken combo, lightweight and you'll forget you have it until you need it...


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## HOE (Nov 13, 2010)

Having watched numerous cctv videos on self-defense, humans on adrenaline rush can still run around after eating a whole mag of small cal. lead... And knife attacks in China, scary...

So I don't think a normal slingshot can fend off a man unless it's a hand-howitzer like those used by JorgSprave. Plus it's slow to load and is very bad at close range. Only good for hunting soup and soda cans...


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

You ought to check out "Mo Money Pawn" it's one of my go too's for weapons. It's on the corner of 12th and Indian School Road. Click on the MMP Guns link in their add, it's impressive. When I come to the city, I always set some time aside to hit that shop. I'm about 90 minutes out, but I'm planning on coming down for a small pocket pistol soon. I've seen everything in there from single shot belt buckles, to the 50 cal Desert Eagle gold plated tiger striped edition at different times.


https://momoneypawn.com/


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

Then for pepper, the Burma Pepper rounds are great.








Byrna | Best Non Lethal Self-Defense Products


One of the best defense products available is the Byrna SD, a legal, non-lethal self-defense weapon that fires pepper filled rounds up to 60 feet using CO2. Save lives without the risk of taking one. Empower yourself today!




byrna.com


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Chicxulub said:


> Even a lot more. look at this tiny fella:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


At those levels of energy the human skull which is roughly 1/4" thick would be breached especially if the shot was on a downwards trajectory, try a coconut for fair measure and result which is far stronger overall.
Other vulnerable areas to high speed ball ammo is the throat and eyes and buttocks which are very soft.

Also boney areas like the front of the legs, knees, hands and face.

In the right hands a catapult is not to be reasoned with.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

madmax96 said:


> I think a slingshot is in such an scenario not usefull or effective at all. Way too slow, pulling out + drawing (if steel/lead ball even in pouch ) the sling will take too long.
> 
> Personally would recommend a blade, I have at least one 24/7 with me.
> An OTF knife would be very handy. Pulling it out and firing a few times will let an attacker/thief whatever think again if it is an good idea to f#ck with you.
> ...


If and when TSHTF and you have a rifle but no rounds, take your knife, go into the woods and make yourself one of these, and you may live longer under duress.


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## Karloshi (Apr 6, 2021)

The Apprentice said:


> If and when TSHTF and you have a rifle but no rounds, take your knife, go into the woods and make yourself one of these, and you may live longer under duress.


or a staff with a fork at 1 end so you have a slingshot too if needed.


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

@The Apprentice no need for a


The Apprentice said:


> If and when TSHTF and you have a rifle but no rounds, take your knife, go into the woods and make yourself one of these, and you may live longer under duress.


May? Haha you're entertaining 😊

Unless the individual is highly trained, that wooden stick is more or less useless...


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

madmax96 said:


> @The Apprentice no need for a
> 
> May? Haha you're entertaining 😊
> 
> Unless the individual is highly trained, that wooden stick is more or less useless...


This was filmed a few minutes down the valley from me, LOL, I would wait until nobody was watching.


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

The Apprentice said:


> This was filmed a few minutes down the valley from me, LOL, I would wait until nobody was watching.


Love that movie, as I do with most older ones. Costner is one hell of an actor 👌🏼


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## wolfboi823 (May 11, 2021)

If there has been one thing I've learned from self defense footage and combat footage and just dealing with drunk jackwagon Marines from my enlistment, if someone is going to hurt you, you need the most effective clear cut way to stop the threat, followed by the skill and training to use this in the most effective fashion you can, followed by the most effective way you defend yourself without 1 and 2. With that in mind I personally could not in good conscious recommend a slingshot to defend yourself. Unless you're worried about Thumper jumping you. If that's the case I understand the want to not use bullets. They're expensive 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

I’ve owned a Concealed Gun Permit for multiple US States. A few years ago I upset another driver because I was driving the speed limit in the slow lane. He pulled up to the middle lane at a red light, rolled down his passenger window and started screaming and yelling and inviting me to pull off the road to get my assed kicked. I had my pistol in the console and PP Ranger in the passenger seat with some 11mm steel balls in the cup holder. I calmly reached down and grabbed a steel ball and held it up for him and smiled. I picked up the frame and flipped the bands around, palmed the ball, and pulled those bands back and aimed at him straight between the eyes. I ain’t joking! The blood drained out of his face and he yelled ‘HOLY SHIT!!’ and hit the gas and jumped the light to get himself some distance! To this day I am certain that if I waved my pistol he would’ve either pulled his pistol (we all have one over here) or called the cops on me for threatening a disabled person with my gun. Knowing what you all know, if someone was at full draw with a slingshot pointed right at your noggin’ wouldn’t you flinch just a little and dive behind the nearest tree?


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

wolfboi823 said:


> If there has been one thing I've learned from self defense footage and combat footage and just dealing with drunk jackwagon Marines from my enlistment,* if someone is going to hurt you, you need the most effective clear cut way to stop the threat, *followed by the skill and training to use this in the most effective fashion you can, followed by the most effective way you defend yourself without 1 and 2. With that in mind I personally could not in good conscious recommend a slingshot to defend yourself. Unless you're worried about Thumper jumping you. If that's the case I understand the want to not use bullets. They're expensive
> 
> Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


Simple but effective, anyone can do it, even the weakest women.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)




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## Hoss (Jun 3, 2014)

This makes me think of a funny thing that happened in a meeting at church, we were having a discussion about about security at church during services.

The discussion was about what we'd do if someone came into the church to cause harm while we were having service.

This is the funny part, one brother said he and another brother would set in the back seat and when someone comes in with a gun the would throw a songbook at them to knock them off guard.

This was my reply, that sounds great, while you're getting beat up by them over getting hit with the song books that will give the rest of us time to get out. Of course, I was just kidding. 

Sent from my MAX_10 using Tapatalk


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## HOE (Nov 13, 2010)

The Apprentice said:


> Simple but effective, anyone can do it, even the weakest women.


I just pressed my side of my neck lightly with my finger tip, push in harder and my hand of that side starts to feel numb. Can't imagine it being struck HARD! Nice technique. Thanks for sharing!

It's the stiff tendon located in between our neck, a lot of nerves are there, a fragile point.


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

HOE said:


> I just pressed my side of my neck lightly with my finger tip, push in harder and my hand of that side starts to feel numb. Can't imagine it being struck HARD! Nice technique. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> It's the stiff tendon located in between our neck, a lot of nerves are there, a fragile point.


Seems suspiciously close to the Vulcan Nerve Pinch which is still a highly effective movement for drunk people at Christmas parties and such.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

I think you might find some of my old videos on the subject interesting:
















Plus 7 more on the subject, just check my channel


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## Roll Fast (Sep 19, 2021)

Thank you Mr. Hays. That was very informative.
I've been in a wheelchair for many years. So my hands are used to move so the only defense will have to come from ducking!
Maybe I can negotiate i.e. he just really wants my slingshot?
Thanks again!


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

HOE said:


> I just pressed my side of my neck lightly with my finger tip, push in harder and my hand of that side starts to feel numb. Can't imagine it being struck HARD! Nice technique. Thanks for sharing!
> 
> It's the stiff tendon located in between our neck, a lot of nerves are there, a fragile point.


It also works from the back as well.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

This one ia also devastating, it has a slight delay and cannot be shrugged off it done correctly, I have been on the recieving end of one of these punches during militatry training in my youth, not nice without a glove and far more painful than with a gloved hand.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Superb tool seen here, the pain maker.






You can fit this inside your trouser belt and bring it out in a millisecond, the handle is also a very useful tool for stabbing and a Cue Baton, in trained hands your in real trouble.


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## Karloshi (Apr 6, 2021)

A slap of latex to the face will probably take out most of this snowflake generation.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

The main problem with most of the self defense concepts in this thread are two fold... 
1. Against a motivated attacker, most ideas, especially those that rely on simple pain compliance... will not work, and in fact may cause the attacker to become enraged... seeing "red" and doling out a worse beating than you may have received in the first place.
2. Many of the ideas carry the burden of premeditation.... it can look to the right prosecutor like you may have been hunting for trouble and then it became reality.

Then there's the biggest problem of all... most people are not willing to do what it actually takes to defend themselves against an attacker... they tend to hold back on strikes and pass over opportunities during the confrontation...
THAT is the hardest thing to train and the thing that separates a successful defense/attack from an unsuccessful one... to actually hit, making full contact on vital areas when the opportunity presents itself, is the difference between a black belt and a chobocha.

Train to hit the vital areas with the force necessary.... and whatever weapon you use, whether it's generally considered a weapon or not, will pretty much do the trick.


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## Chicxulub (Jul 14, 2021)

Karloshi said:


> A slap of latex to the face will probably take out most of this snowflake generation.


lol, this could make it to an invention i would call rubber monkeyfist.
would be dangerous as hell for anyone, especially oneself...


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

__
https://flic.kr/p/2mNMeNk


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Bill Hays said:


> The main problem with most of the self defense concepts in this thread are two fold...
> 1. Against a motivated attacker, most ideas, especially those that rely on simple pain compliance... will not work, and in fact may cause the attacker to become enraged... seeing "red" and doling out a worse beating than you may have received in the first place.
> 2. Many of the ideas carry the burden of premeditation.... it can look to the right prosecutor like you may have been hunting for trouble and then it became reality.
> 
> ...


I think this is the most relevant post on this topic. Just that - most people won't strike when they should.
On the original question, I think my Starship would put someone down if the shot placement was right. It shoots an 899gn 1" steel ball at 140fps (good enough to pass clean through 1/2" chipboard at 10yds). Chances of me being able and willing to get that shot away in a stressful situation? Probably zero.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Biker_Bob said:


> I think this is the most relevant post on this topic. Just that - most people won't strike when they should.
> On the original question, I think my Starship would put someone down if the shot placement was right. It shoots an 899gn 1" steel ball at 140fps (good enough to pass clean through 1/2" chipboard at 10yds). Chances of me being able and willing to get that shot away in a stressful situation? Probably zero.


If you used a ball roughly half the size like lead it will have almost the same weight and travel slightly faster.

At those specs you have roughly 40 ft lbs and a very large trajectory so long range is out of the question.

Tha arrow avenue would be a much better option, a 40 lb bow and razor arrow can take down the largest animal yet the elastic and one inch ball would only bruise it, unless its a downhill shot to the human skull directly, or any area that is boney.

A ball that size dropped from the Eiffel tower would produce better results I think.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

Biker_Bob said:


> I think this is the most relevant post on this topic.


Agree, and I would nominate @Sandstorm's hilarious and on point post re: being attacked by slow moving soup cans as a very close second.


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## devils son in law (Sep 2, 2014)

It is somewhat of a rhetorical question ... but if your only chance to defend yourself is with a slingshot, then a marble to the head is better than nothing. If anyone doubts me, we can do a trial run!


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Yeah, I'd probably prefer a smaller slingshot over a starship though.... a slingshot with a decent fork width will allow you to hold it by placing your hand's webbing in the cup and holding onto one of the forks. This gives you an elongated knuckle for striking small vital areas with straight punching motions... and the fork on the overhand side allows for swinging strikes like a ridgehand or chop type strike against areas such as the temples, side of the neck, jawline, behind the ear, base of skull, as well as various nerve clusters and nerve "cable" locations....

But again the biggest problem is... and the one it takes the longest to train a person to do... is to actually hit with enough force to end the fight when they have the opportunity.
So many Women are especially bad at this... it's like their motherly instincts take over and makes them hold back when they could have ended the confrontation with a properly utilized car key in the first 3 seconds... just have to be willing to hurt someone that bad is all.

The best defense is one that attacks the attack... setting your opponent on his heels taking away mobility and power through aggression and will... takes a long time for most to learn that...
Most can learn the striking and kicking techniques and be proficient in less than 6 months with diligent practice... but to apply those techniques when and how they're needed when the situation demands it... that usually takes far longer.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Hmmm, on second thought... I think I'd like to hire the guy who uses this slingshot as my bodyguard...

Can you imagine the draw weight and the incredible accuracy he must get?


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

A Sniperling dart would be a bit more affective...


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

I think what’s really called for is a Chokeslam followed by a Powerbomb and finish it off with a Tombstone. If somehow he gets back up it’s time to pull out a full on early 90’s Chuck Norris slow motion roundhouse to the face. Should do the trick.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Biker_Bob said:


> A Sniperling dart would be a bit more affective...


Why stop there Bob, how about a tincture of hemlock for good measure.


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## Karloshi (Apr 6, 2021)

Hmm. Poison arrow frog tipped darts.

Sent from my SM-J330F using Tapatalk


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Karloshi said:


> A slap of latex to the face will probably take out most of this snowflake generation.


Not even the latex is necessary . Just a few words . One insult or pronoun will have them crying and drive them back into their safe space .


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Here is a pic of a EDC set up using my BeanFlip. I'm using .395 lead propelled by 24x17x .7 bands This set up at ~70deg temp and my 500% elongation factor sends this 93gr ammo out at 245+ fps. It is loaded up with a 1/4oz oval sinker tied in with a rubber band for fast removal for the first shot.

This is a very potent set up and capable of serious penetration and smash, it is also pretty flat shooting to about the 30 yard area.

All of this is stored in the blue Sniper Sling bag seen below that is usually given away with an order.










wll


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## tool (Oct 1, 2021)

You mean 9.3gr, don't you?


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

tool said:


> You mean 9.3gr, don't you?


No, its at .395cal round lead ball that weighs 93gr ;- )

wll


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

The Apprentice said:


> This one ia also devastating, it has a slight delay and cannot be shrugged off it done correctly, I have been on the recieving end of one of these punches during militatry training in my youth, not nice without a glove and far more painful than with a gloved hand.


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## tool (Oct 1, 2021)

wll said:


> No, its at .395cal round lead ball that weighs 93gr ;- )
> 
> wll


Ouch. Grain, not gramm. Got it.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Let us be serious for a minute, the first lesson of Self Defense is...Avoid conflict until forced to engage. That said, I used to like conflict.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

I will be testing this sling sometime tomorrow using 1/4oz oval lead sinkers at a distance of around 6-9 steps, no more - against a piece of plywood (if it is still there) at my shooting area. The ply is about 3/8 thick I believe. Want to see what the penetration is.

Sling will be pulled to its 500% elongation and my 30" anchor point for accuracy, but I will be shooting at a faster clip then I normally do. I have shot 3/8oz, 1/2oz and 3/4oz before and sent those lead weights through 3/4"- 7/8" sheet rock at about 15 yards of an old house built in the '50's. for that test I was using looped 1745 and my Daisy F-16 !!

Pic of F-16 and two sheet rock holes done by 1/2oz and 3/4oz oval lead weights below !!



















wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Slide-Easy said:


> Let us be serious for a minute, the first lesson of Self Defense is...Avoid conflict until forced to engage. That said, I used to like conflict.


Yep, I'm the type to not get into a conflict for sure and avoid confrontation at all cost ... but it is fun to talk about it ;- ) There are many, many instances were a perp is shot and doesn't come down until some time later after the altercation ..... a slingshot is not a gun for sure !!

wll


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

There are of course a plethera of better alternatives. 

This being said, here in the UK you cannot carry any item for the purpose of self defence, it doesn't matter whether the item is legal to purchase or not. 

There are however a select few items which can be carried about daily (without lawful authority) as you can argue that they are for utility or in this a hobby, this is realistically the only circumstance I can think of the you would even consider a slingshot a valid choice for self defence. 

Slingshots here are regarded more as toys than anything but you had better be willing to argue your case in court if you ever used one to inflict even minor damage against a person, attacker or not.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> There are of course a plethera of better alternatives.
> 
> This being said, here in the UK you cannot carry any item for the purpose of self defence, it doesn't matter whether the item is legal to purchase or not.
> 
> ...


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Have the EDC "Green Bean" out, a 1/4oz lead oval sinker loaded in my sling. It's 6:50 am and 32°, their is frost on the ground - lousy sling shot conditions for a test, but in life you never know when fungus happens.

I'm shooting at a chunk of 2'x3' plywood that looks 3/8" thick and has been out in the freeze all night. I'm standing up the ply against a fence, but it is not rock solid, so there is some give. I'm standing 7 paces from the target - velocity this cold morning is 206fps with Simple Shot Black, ~30+" draw, 114gr oval sinker ammo and a ~500% elongation factor. The velocity is pretty low because of the cold weather, if it was in the 70's it would be in the 220+ fps area.

This is about 10.75fpe at the muzzle and a momentum factor of about 23,484u/m. A 22 cal air rifle shooting 18gr pellets at 800 FPS has 14,400u/m. The slingshot hits hard, it has smashing power. As far as FPE, the airgun has over twice as much, as energy is very reliant on velocity.

Getting ready to see what this set up will do and it's time to let 'er rip !

Pic Below Of The 1/4oz Ammo Dent !










I did not have a soup can handy for this test but have shot this ammo before and it rips through both sides of a steel soup can at 15 yards+ ! I'll be looking forward to seeing what the speed is when the temp warms up a bit ?


wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Slide-Easy said:


> View attachment 359086


That is a perfect example of a great tough cane that can knock to giblets out of a bad guy !!

wll


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

wll said:


> That is a perfect example of a great tough cane that can knock to giblets out of a bad guy !!
> 
> wll


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> View attachment 359086


A stick could very well work. 
Probably best get one that isn't a shillelagh though, it would be hard to explain in court that the weapon was for another purpose unless you needed it to walk. 
I know a claim could be made that its a fashion accessory, but you could make that argument about any weapon.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Hoss said:


> This makes me think of a funny thing that happened in a meeting at church, we were having a discussion about about security at church during services.
> 
> The discussion was about what we'd do if someone came into the church to cause harm while we were having service.
> 
> ...


A firm push of the forehead into one of those solid oak pews is a much better weapon.

Be aware of the old man who brings his innocent looking cane into church.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> A stick could very well work.
> Probably best get one that isn't a shillelagh though, it would be hard to explain in court that the weapon was for another purpose unless you needed it to walk.
> I know a claim could be made that its a fashion accessory, but you could make that argument about any weapon.


I carry a Blackswift Walking Stick everywere I go. I can take it into courthouses and on planes as per ADHA and HIPAA. I can think of no other weapon that I can say that about.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Slide-Easy said:


> I carry a Blackswift Walking Stick everywere I go. I can take it into courthouses and on planes as per ADHA and HIPAA. I can think of no other weapon that I can say that about.


Yes for sure. I *DO* carry a Blackswift cane sometimes where I go .. it is one heck of a protection device !! Man alive I would hate to be hit with it !! I have the Black ball type and the Wood ball type, the Wood ball cane looking less aggressive. 

With either one you are smacked with the small end leaving the perp pretty smacked up with huge welts.


wll


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

wll said:


> Yes for sure. I *DO* carry a Blackswift cane sometimes where I go .. it is one heck of a protection device !! Man alive I would hate to be hit with it !! I have the Black ball type and the Wood ball type, the Wood ball cane looking less aggressive.
> 
> With either one you are smacked with the small end leaving the perp pretty smacked up with huge welts.
> 
> ...


A buddy of mine from The Coast Guard, really put one thru the paces over this past summer, it is an awe inspiring weapon. I sent Moses a video of him showing it off, he can attest to that statement, I am sure.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> I carry a Blackswift Walking Stick everywere I go. I can take it into courthouses and on planes as per ADHA and HIPAA. I can think of no other weapon that I can say that about.


I agree completely that it is a fantastic option, my point is that you could very well still face charges if you ever had to use it for self defence here. 

Dependant upon whether you need it for a walking aid or not could be the difference between a weapons charge being added. 

If your anything like me, this is a risk worth taking, this being said you just don't know until this situation is thrust upon you and its always worth being able to make an informed decision. 

One of the worst laws we have here is that you cannot publicly carry any weapon for self defence, if you carry any item for this purpose it can prove premeditation in court. 

It's the responsibility of the defendant to prove that this wasn't the case.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

The Apprentice said:


> A firm push of the forehead into one of those solid oak pews is a mush better weapon.
> 
> Be aware of the old man who brings his innocent looking cane into church.


That is absolutely fantastic, I love hidden weapons of all kinds. 

In the UK you cannot even own this let alone have it in public. There is a max sentence of 5 years for possession of a banned weapon. 

If you have an antique one you may be able to keep it in your house but take it out and have it discovered you could face far longer than 5 years, I imagine you would be prosecuted for brandishing or going equipped on top of the initial weapons charge.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> That is absolutely fantastic, I love hidden weapons of all kinds.
> 
> In the UK you cannot even own this let alone have it in public. There is a max sentence of 5 years for possession of a banned weapon.
> 
> If you have an antique one you may be able to keep it in your house but take it out and have it discovered you could face far longer than 5 years, I imagine you would be prosecuted for brandishing or going equipped on top of the initial weapons charge.


I can think of several things you can carry with you on a daily basis that you can use for self defence.

1. Biro pen or pencil.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> I agree completely that it is a fantastic option, my point is that you could very well still face charges if you ever had to use it for self defence here.
> 
> Dependant upon whether you need it for a walking aid or not could be the difference between a weapons charge being added.
> 
> ...


Then this is what I would carry. Over here, ADHA and HIPPA do not require that you use it to walk or 'need it'...it may be carried 'in case' you need it.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

How about one of these for self protection,, they are still legal to carry, well not with a gun and or poisoned pellet hidden inside, but they can make a pretty good hole in your opponent if used correctly, all you need to do is wave them and planes seemingly fall out of the sky.











Any more everyday items as a self defence tool.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> Then this is what I would carry. Over here, ADHA and HIPPA do not require that you use it to walk or 'need it'...it may be carried 'in case' you need it.
> View attachment 359239


This is a different walking stick, you would likely be able to argue that. 

The first I responded to was a shillelagh type stick, otherwise known as an Irish fighting stick. That is the issue someone would have arguing in court, you may be able to argue it but a knowledgeable prosecutor would make the case that the stick was designed to inflict injury, thereby proving intent.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

The Apprentice said:


> I can think of several things you can carry with you on a daily basis that you can use for self defence.
> 
> 1. Biro pen or pencil.


Yes I agree, in fact this is what I usually carry, a strong aluminium pen, it could be used obviously as a stabbing implement, but a far better way to use it in order to avoid the possibility of prosecution is as a kubotan. 

There are several options that are very plausible for this purpose such as keys either used a knuckle duster (although you do risk injuring your hand) or attached to a lanyard as a crude lightweight flail. Hell even a small can of deodorant could potentially act as a substitute for pepper spray, or a powerful torch could be used as a blinding implement or the afore mentioned kubotan. 

These types of things are are probably the best things that we have access to, ordinary items that anybody is likely to carry. It would make it very difficult for the prosecution to claim possession of a deadly weapon. 

The downside to these types of weapons is that they generally speaking require you to be very close to your attacker and have at least some skill in order to use them effectively. 

Personally I have no issue with people carrying a weapon to defend they're selves, I will on occasion carry a knife for example when I am working in a ver dodgy area (usually my rat 1 as I may be able to claim it is for work). But again this being said I understand the risks and choose to carry based on the risks associated with where I am. I am fully prepared to go to prison in defence of mine or my families life. 

The major issue with UK laws is that they encourage the victimisation of the people already least likely to be able to defend themselves effectively. I am a 31 year physically fit male, unless I'm out drinking I'm far less likely to be attacked than if I was a small woman or an elderly person for example. This in my opinion is the worst part. 

We have a pretty well established viewpoint here that you should be able to protect yourself with your hands alone, to do otherwise is to be seen as a coward, this is all well and good until the attacker is armed or they are attacking somebody vulnerable.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> This is a different walking stick, you would likely be able to argue that.
> 
> The first I responded to was a shillelagh type stick, otherwise known as an Irish fighting stick. That is the issue someone would have arguing in court, you may be able to argue it but a knowledgeable prosecutor would make the case that the stick was designed to inflict injury, thereby proving intent.


Best to avoid conflict all together.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Yes I agree, in fact this is what I usually carry, a strong aluminium pen, it could be used obviously as a stabbing implement, but a far better way to use it in order to avoid the possibility of prosecution is as a kubotan.
> 
> There are several options that are very plausible for this purpose such as keys either used a knuckle duster (although you do risk injuring your hand) or attached to a lanyard as a crude lightweight flail. Hell even a small can of deodorant could potentially act as a substitute for pepper spray, or a powerful torch could be used as a blinding implement or the afore mentioned kubotan.
> 
> ...


I guess your immigrants are not folling the rules... The Dark Reason 40,000 People Will Be Stabbed In The UK This Year


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> I guess your immigrants are not folling the rules... The Dark Reason 40,000 People Will Be Stabbed In The UK This Year


No one who goes out seeking to cause harm follows the rules, those people that follow the rules and are vulnerable become victims. 

There are a few issues with the article here though, the first is the picture of the probably custom made knives that they would have taken from Google. People who spend hundreds on a single knife are not going out stabbing people, far more likely to be stabbed by a kid with a wilko kitchen knife. 

Further to this probably the main reason in my opinion in the increase in knife crime over the last decade or 2 is the fact that nobody makes children take responsibility for they're actions. 

My nephew was a nightmare when he was between the ages of 9 and 12, setting fires on private proterty, stealing, breaking into buildings, running off until 2 in the morning hanging around with people taking drugs, getting into fights, breaking property, threatening people with his little gang, and yes carrying knives and physically assaulting his mother and father. I was once nearly arrested when I restrained him and carried him home at 2 in the morning from the local park where he was causing trouble and fighting, because he thought it was funny to scream that I was a nonce and he didn't know me, naturally the police were called by concerned neighbours. 

My sister went to social services, the school the police for help. 
Social services threatened to take all of her other kids if she felt she couldn't keep them safe around the violent son. 

The school put him with his favourite teacher for an hour a week to play lego so he'd feel special. 

The police refused to arrest him for anything, stating it was against his rights, they said even if they did arrest him for any of his crimes they weren't allowed to put him in a cell because of his age, sure they spoke to him a few times and told him he was naughty, that was it. Literally everyone she went to for help either just blamed her or refused help. Bet if he stabbed someone they wouldn't have thought twice about locking him up. 

He's far better now, he moved in with his father, someone who wasn't risking losing his other children if he gave him a good hiding when he needed it. 

If as a society you make excuses for everything a child does, you spend your time making sure they are spoiled and never have to take responsibility for they're actions, then you can't be surprised when they start committing serious crimes.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> No one who goes out seeking to cause harm follows the rules, those people that follow the rules and are vulnerable become victims.
> 
> There are a few issues with the article here though, the first is the picture of the probably custom made knives that they would have taken from Google. People who spend hundreds on a single knife are not going out stabbing people, far more likely to be stabbed by a kid with a wilko kitchen knife.
> 
> ...


Any time, in my life, that I have been ordered or told to do something...I have always asked or considered what the consequenses would be if I don't...I have done what I have wanted for so long that I do not know any other way. I have never looked for my actions to be justified by the laws of man.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Yes I agree, in fact this is what I usually carry, a strong aluminium pen, it could be used obviously as a stabbing implement, but a far better way to use it in order to avoid the possibility of prosecution is as a kubotan.
> 
> There are several options that are very plausible for this purpose such as keys either used a knuckle duster (although you do risk injuring your hand) or attached to a lanyard as a crude lightweight flail. Hell even a small can of deodorant could potentially act as a substitute for pepper spray, or a powerful torch could be used as a blinding implement or the afore mentioned kubotan.
> 
> ...


I would say a skilled operative could on many occasions use words to defend themselves, the saying, that it takes a braver person to walk away from trouble is an oxymoron, but sometimes you cannot walk away if the opponent is hell bent on violence you have no choice but to strike first or run.

One very dangerous weapon is the stiletto heel, these is the hands of a crazy women can be lethal and she will have two of them, so if you stop hearing the clicketty clack of the steel tips be aware of the barefoot bula creeping up on your.

I would opt for a quality umberella with a stout tip and a taser fitted.


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## tool (Oct 1, 2021)

Slide-Easy said:


> Any time, in my life, that I have been ordered or told to do something...I have always asked or considered what the consequenses would be if I don't...I have done what I have wanted for so long that I do not know any other way. I have never looked for my actions to be justified by the laws of man.


This. We're not "allowed" to carry folding knives with a lockout here in Germany. I couldn't care less. I never leave the house without a knife. Too many crazy people out there. And I have to cut my apples...


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

The Apprentice said:


> I would say a skilled operative could on many occasions use words to defend themselves, the saying, that it takes a braver person to walk away from trouble is an oxymoron, but sometimes you cannot walk away if the opponent is hell bent on violence you have no choice but to strike first or run.
> 
> One very dangerous weapon is the stiletto heel, these is the hands of a crazy women can be lethal and she will have two of them, so if you stop hearing the clicketty clack of the steel tips be aware of the barefoot bula creeping up on your.
> 
> I would opt for a quality umberella with a stout tip and a taser fitted.


Hey im all for talking your way out or even running away if you are able to, that very much depends upon the attacker too though. 
Im also a proponent of effective risk management, it's far better to avoid a situation entirely than to have to react to one. 

Seriously, an umbrella with a taser? The umbrella is probably a viable option Dependant unop it's strength but a taser is a section 5 weapon in the UK, guaranteed jail time if you had one in public. It wouldnt even matter if a reasonable force claim upheld you would still be in prison.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

madmax96 said:


> I think a slingshot is in such an scenario not usefull or effective at all. Way too slow, pulling out + drawing (if steel/lead ball even in pouch ) the sling will take too long.
> 
> Personally would recommend a blade, I have at least one 24/7 with me.
> An OTF knife would be very handy. Pulling it out and firing a few times will let an attacker/thief whatever think again if it is an good idea to f#ck with you.
> ...


depends on the scenario. guy grabs you from behind and you might not get ahold of anything you need that fast. unless you train for these scenarios and stay sharp theres too many things that could happen. whether a knife is more viable etc all depends on the particulars. hell there is scenarios where a dude running at you from 200 plus feet away you might just pull off a saving grace shot from a sling, although unlikely. Hell your knife is a gamble too a fighter might reverse stab you with your own blade. thats why theres nothing thats exactly right besides training for each situation.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Hey im all for talking your way out or even running away if you are able to, that very much depends upon the attacker too though.
> Im also a proponent of effective risk management, it's far better to avoid a situation entirely than to have to react to one.
> 
> Seriously, an umbrella with a taser? The umbrella is probably a viable option Dependant unop it's strength but a taser is a section 5 weapon in the UK, guaranteed jail time if you had one in public. It wouldnt even matter if a reasonable force claim upheld you would still be in prison.


Isn't it ironic, you cannot own a taser but you can be tasered if you are trying to defend yourself with an umberella from an out of control policeman, but the umberella makes a superb sheild against the taser.

In one of Obama's speeches he said, we not only need a stong military, but we need an equally strong police force.
This tells me what is already planned, when the civilian services become enforcers and no longer serve the public the end cannot be far away.

A great book explaining what I share and is almost upon is, The Rise of the Warrior Cop, by Radley Balko.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Slide-Easy said:


> In my 53 years, each and every time I have had to whip someones a$$, I have always told them when it was over...'if you call the cops, it will be worse next time'.
> 
> Snitches get Stitches....period.


lol unless your part of a large gang, good luck with that in todays society. damn near spit on someone and you get sued. sad.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

How about a stout walking stick about as tall as your shoulders with a thumb fork at the top and a semi blunt end at the bottom, then you could use the small thumb fork at the top as a catty, you could make some kind of quick fitting cap/elastic to slip over the forks to use and then remove it again.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

olenickdesigns said:


> depends on the scenario. guy grabs you from behind and you might not get ahold of anything you need that fast. unless you train for these scenarios and stay sharp theres too many things that could happen. whether a knife is more viable etc all depends on the particulars. hell there is scenarios where a dude running at you from 200 plus feet away you might just pull off a saving grace shot from a sling, although unlikely. Hell your knife is a gamble too a fighter might reverse stab you with your own blade. thats why theres nothing thats exactly right besides training for each situation.


This is completely true, I will point out that you can't always be prepared for everything, it's a good idea but in practice it's just not feasible. 

Most people who will attack random people though would probably fall into the catagories of junkies, drunks or young people thinking they're gangsta. 

It's unlikely that your going to come across a trained fighter able to retrieve a knife from you if you have the most basic of training or even common sense. 

Also if someone is charging at you from 200 feet away it's probably better to just run away. 

I'm not claiming that a slingshot is a good oprion for self defence, simply one that you may avoid prosecution for having on you. 

Anything that could realistically make it a really viable option such as pepper balls etc... Would in fact make it a section 5 weapon here anyway.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Plinker1 said:


> This is completely true, I will point out that you can't always be prepared for everything, it's a good idea but in practice it's just not feasible.
> 
> Most people who will attack random people though would probably fall into the catagories of junkies, drunks or young people thinking they're gangsta.
> 
> ...


yeah totally cant be ready for all of course thats an impossibility. i wouldnt pull my slingshot before a blade in defense but even someone who can scrap more than me in a scenario might catch a good one and then again stab you with it. what's beyond me is most think of knife as self defense like they even know what to do with a knife besides slice and stab. imo pulling a knife and not knowing what to do with it is partially asking for your attacker to stab you with it if he gets a chance. especially if it started unarmed of course. too may scenarios to count of course but most people carrying a knife think they are rambo.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

The Apprentice said:


> Isn't it ironic, you cannot own a taser but you can be tasered if you are trying to defend yourself with an umberella from an out of control policeman, but the umberella makes a superb sheild against the taser.
> 
> In one of Obama's speeches he said, we not only need a stong military, but we need an equally strong police force.
> This tells me what is already planned, when the civilian services become enforcers and no longer serve the public the end cannot be far away.
> ...


Honestly one of my main arguments with the self defence laws here are related somewhat. 

If a police officer needs a taser, pepper spray or collapsible baton in order to subdue a perpetrator, then why would the victim who needed to call the police not require these items also in order to protect themselves at least up until the point that the police get there? The government has already admitted both there necessity and effectiveness. 

Some people claim they are trained to use them but anybody can be claimed to use them surely? Use that training as a stipulation for carry under permit or something. 

I also believe that yes eventually most of the western world will be living in police states, this is self evident from the reactions of governments to the pandemic and the ease and willingness with which they remove rights from people. This is especially scary given that we now have precedent under the law for it. 

What will it be next, knife crime is an epidemic, drug use is at an all time high, too many deaths by car accidents. They have literally given themselves the power to enforce draconian legislation at will so long as they believe an issue is important enough.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Honestly one of my main arguments with the self defence laws here are related somewhat.
> 
> If a police officer needs a taser, pepper spray or collapsible baton in order to subdue a perpetrator, then why would the victim who needed to call the police not require these items also in order to protect themselves at least up until the point that the police get there? The government has already admitted both there necessity and effectiveness.
> 
> ...


What we are all witnessing whether we like it or not is the end of the cycle of relative freedom within the law and the beginning of the new age and or reset where full control over your well being must come into play, some say it is already too late if we don't top feeding the system that is biting off the hands that feed it.

A song






Religion and the people opiates or given archetypes is dieing fast and yet trying to hold onto what they were coerced into believing earlier, but it simply won't work as the new age comes fully into view.

I do not live in hope, never did, the time has come to build as many parallel systems as possible before the doors are closed for good, soon the majority won't be able to travel from town to town like we have seen of late in pre USSR, where permits were needed to travel from one region to the next, same happened in Egypt, where slaves needed to carry a ceramic disc and code, this has been done for thousands of years.






Stephan Molyuex explains things so well that he was removed from Google/youtube, now you need to sign in to prove your age, which means you can be tracked, same for many other outlets of the real ministry of truths.

As America begins to fall like it was designed to do, another echellon will replace it, I predict that Russia and Russian interests and the energy rich posture will eventually regain control of Europe, which borders into the EU on an even wider scale, and the whole merry go round begins again.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Plinker1 said:


> Honestly one of my main arguments with the self defence laws here are related somewhat.
> 
> If a police officer needs a taser, pepper spray or collapsible baton in order to subdue a perpetrator, then why would the victim who needed to call the police not require these items also in order to protect themselves at least up until the point that the police get there? The government has already admitted both there necessity and effectiveness.
> 
> ...


its a crazy world to live in these days. you bring up great points though.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

olenickdesigns said:


> lol unless your part of a large gang, good luck with that in todays society. damn near spit on someone and you get sued. sad.


Snitches get Stitches....period.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

olenickdesigns said:


> yeah totally cant be ready for all of course thats an impossibility. i wouldnt pull my slingshot before a blade in defense but even someone who can scrap more than me in a scenario might catch a good one and then again stab you with it. what's beyond me is most think of knife as self defense like they even know what to do with a knife besides slice and stab. imo pulling a knife and not knowing what to do with it is partially asking for your attacker to stab you with it if he gets a chance. especially if it started unarmed of course. too may scenarios to count of course but most people carrying a knife think they are rambo.



I do not want to get close enough to use my spyderco civilian...





BlackSwift Sticks - walking stick self defense


BlackSwift sticks are walking stick that doubles as a cane for self-defense.




www.blackswiftsticks.com


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Slide-Easy said:


> Snitches get Stitches....period.


we must be from different worlds. id send a bullet, if someone thought to assault me twice.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Slide-Easy said:


> Snitches get Stitches....period.


In the society that is fast approaching all of us snitches sometimes get well paid, now that their wherewithall has been removed many automatically gravitate towards the state monster itself, there are plenty of de-skilled operatives from which to choose.
I have seen the end result of this kind of paradigm, IE, East Berlin when our unit was stationed there from 80-82 Montgomery Barracks, through Charlie our boys went to sight see, what they saw was not cricket, we were only allowed to take 200 Marks into the void as the exchange rate from West to East was at the beginning 12 to one.

Today the snitch is truly incognito making it much easier to give a detailed sitrep of anyones movement that is not in direct sight of the cloud.

The more we gravitate towards the clouds the more we will be subsumed with negativity and misery, I use the system today to share what I have already seen take place, without any fear because fear is the little mind killer and rabbit hole in of itslef.

The total destruction of our once proud nation is almost complete, yet we still have time not to become compliant slaves, eventually this son of a boomer will be gone along with the previous generation, who never had it so good, who tried to live but never really did.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

olenickdesigns said:


> we must be from different worlds. id send a bullet, if someone thought to assault me twice.


Before you reach for your gun, you should first, consider just what you did that got you the first whipping...then you must consider if you wish to report it to the police or a lawyer(civil suit) and receive another lesson in comprehension.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Slide-Easy said:


> Before you reach for your gun, you should first, consider just what you did that got you the first a$$ whipping...then you must consider if you wish to report it to the police or a lawyer(civil suit) and receive another lesson in comprehension.


totally in support of deserved ass whoopings. if someone goes overboard on the first whooping then maybe its not wrong to go to press charges. ive been in those groups where a guy looks at someone wrong and that alone causes a brawl. before you know it someones getting kicked in the head till their bleeding from the ear canals. those style and maybe not even as extreme are when id have no problem pressing charges. roughing someone up with a few hits to the face etc are justified imo. but theres always dudes that want to just keep swinging when they have obviously already handled the situation.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

olenickdesigns said:


> totally in support of deserved ass whoopings. if someone goes overboard on the first whooping then maybe its not wrong to go to press charges. ive been in those groups where a guy looks at someone wrong and that alone causes a brawl. before you know it someones getting kicked in the head till their bleeding from the ear canals. those style and maybe not even as extreme are when id have no problem pressing charges. roughing someone up with a few hits to the face etc are justified imo. but theres always dudes that want to just keep swinging when they have obviously already handled the situation.


What you describe are Ruffians, I speak of Country Gentleman.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Slide-Easy said:


> What you describe are Ruffians, I speak of Country Gentleman.


good call. fair is fair. people today get shoved and try to press charges, guess the ruffian people ive been around in the past made me forget there is another kinda ass whooping. like you had said.... one you shouldnt need an explanation to receive.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

olenickdesigns said:


> yeah totally cant be ready for all of course thats an impossibility. i wouldnt pull my slingshot before a blade in defense but even someone who can scrap more than me in a scenario might catch a good one and then again stab you with it. what's beyond me is most think of knife as self defense like they even know what to do with a knife besides slice and stab. imo pulling a knife and not knowing what to do with it is partially asking for your attacker to stab you with it if he gets a chance. especially if it started unarmed of course. too may scenarios to count of course but most people carrying a knife think they are rambo.


Again I completely agree with this, and there are again far better options than this. 

It is difficult here though to obtain items that you could use to defend yourself though. Of course there are the walking sticks and umbrellas etc... That others have already pointed out although you run the same risk, to a higher degree in my opinion as it would be far easier to take given the fact that you can hold on to the weapon itself instead of having to grab the wrist / arm behind the weapon. Also a 3 ft stick would be far slower to use than the knife. 

Anything that's actually designed for self defence is illegal here, pepper spray and tasers are probably the most effect less lethal means of self defence, both of these are illegal to own, let alone carry. 

The point of overconfidence is quite accurate although I think that's likely true of people who train in martial arts too, it's going to help prepare you but may encourage you to stick around in a situation that you would be better fleeing from.


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## Yasur (Sep 20, 2021)

Agree with you all,
For self-defense, confidence plays an important part than any weapon are you using. Confident and smart people easily takes decisions about any attacks in any situation. Also, a flashlight helps more quickly to distract the enemy by throwing light on the eyes.


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

olenickdesigns said:


> depends on the scenario. guy grabs you from behind and you might not get ahold of anything you need that fast. unless you train for these scenarios and stay sharp theres too many things that could happen. whether a knife is more viable etc all depends on the particulars. hell there is scenarios where a dude running at you from 200 plus feet away you might just pull off a saving grace shot from a sling, although unlikely. Hell your knife is a gamble too a fighter might reverse stab you with your own blade. thats why theres nothing thats exactly right besides training for each situation.


An OTF has 0.0 to do with gamble, pulled that out since the scenario needed it to do so. Ended the conflict/discussion  

It's over once they see the blade going in and out from the handle and hear the sound. You're right,training is the non plus ultra. I train myself on full contact fighting, no matter who I asked so far, MMA guys, judo, krav maga you name it on an fight where someone pulls a knife: If you can, escape the scene.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

If a big fat guy pulls a knife on a thin fit guy the best option would be to run and gain distance on him, then turn, take out your catty and begin target practice, believe me after a couple of good hit to the legs or torso that guy is going to lay down his knife if you keep doing the same, he will be in so much pain when the shock sets in he has lost long before he can use his knife.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

madmax96 said:


> An OTF has 0.0 to do with gamble, pulled that out since the scenario needed it to do so. Ended the conflict/discussion
> 
> It's over once they see the blade going in and out from the handle and hear the sound. You're right,training is the non plus ultra. I train myself on full contact fighting, no matter who I asked so far, MMA guys, judo, krav maga you name it on an fight where someone pulls a knife: If you can, escape the scene.


never said people who know how to fight would want to combatant someone with a blade. im saying unless you can use that blade people might "run away" as you put it, or you might end up getting stabbed by your own blade. theres no definitive here. if your in the wrong place wrong time and brandish a knife at me with intent and im close enough to draw my handgun, well paint the rest of the picture. plus i know lots of folks in areas you cant own or conceal and that doesnt stop them from doing so. so go popping that knife around and the dude in front of you pulls his pistol.... that makes a otf knife look like an eating utensil and sure if you want to try to badass brandish your knife thats on you, hopefully that day someone doesnt pull a bigger stick on you.


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## Sean Khan (Mar 27, 2020)

1. The only way you can use a slingshot for self-defense is if you chuck it at someone's head. Make sure your slingshot is heavy and metallic.

2. Buy a .25 "lady pistol". Put it in your underwear or worse.

3. Walk around with a dog. Dogs are awesome. Nobody is going to mess with you.

4. Walk around with your mom. Moms are awesome. Nobody is going to mess with you.

5. Wear a kilt. Nobody is going to even try and beat you up in case you are not wearing underwear.


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

olenickdesigns said:


> never said people who know how to fight would want to combatant someone with a blade. im saying unless you can use that blade people might "run away" as you put it, or you might end up getting stabbed by your own blade. theres no definitive here. if your in the wrong place wrong time and brandish a knife at me with intent and im close enough to draw my handgun, well paint the rest of the picture. plus i know lots of folks in areas you cant own or conceal and that doesnt stop them from doing so. so go popping that knife around and the dude in front of you pulls his pistol.... that makes a otf knife look like an eating utensil and sure if you want to try to badass brandish your knife thats on you, hopefully that day someone doesnt pull a bigger stick on you.


You may have missed I don't live in the US, no guns here in Austria unless you active duty. 
Completely usless comment


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## Booral121 (Jan 6, 2019)

This is a stupid post 👎 but it's definitely letting you see who alot of people are . You can kinda tell alot about a grown ass man when he's claiming online to be a street ninja 🤡🤡🤡 wow just wow


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Booral121 said:


> This is a stupid post 👎 but it's definitely letting you see who alot of people are . You can kinda tell alot about a grown ass man when he's claiming online to be a street ninja 🤡🤡🤡 wow just wow


apologize if im the one being the clown to the forum. debating opinions thats all.


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## Booral121 (Jan 6, 2019)

olenickdesigns said:


> apologize if im the one being the clown to the forum. debating opinions thats all.


Wow settle down princess 🤣🤣 I was just voicing my opinion 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👌🎯👍


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

olenickdesigns said:


> apologize if im the one being the clown to the forum. debating opinions thats all.


Would like to carry a gun myself, believe me I'm jealous that you can in most States in the US. 😁 We can own one here, but needs to be in an safe all the time and no rounds allowed loaded in it. Everything separate 😏


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

Booral121 said:


> Wow settle down princess 🤣🤣 I was just voicing my opinion 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿👌🎯👍


Ass


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

madmax96 said:


> Would like to carry a gun myself, believe me I'm jealous that you can in most States in the US. 😁 We can own one here, but needs to be in an safe all the time and no rounds allowed loaded in it. Everything separate 😏


its nice to carry but yeah just have to watch who else here might be carrying and whatnot. the rules are similar here depending on the state you reside, i know alot of people without the permit to carry who do even though its illegal here. its almost a blessing and a curse you know


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

olenickdesigns said:


> its nice to carry but yeah just have to watch who else here might be carrying and whatnot. the rules are similar here depending on the state you reside, i know alot of people without the permit to carry who do even though its illegal here. its almost a blessing and a curse you know


I can only imagine.
Long time ago (begin of 90's) my dad was in the States to work. In 6 months he went down the west coast, loved it. Met a couple who invited him to their house to stay there for a few days, even though they left for holidays. 

As if that was not already crazy enough to let an basically unknown person stay in your house, the very first thing they showed him is where the guns where kept, nothing hidden an all loaded and ready. 

Shows how different people are and how they approach things. For him, and for me still ridiculous to handle with such an easy. 😁


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

madmax96 said:


> Would like to carry a gun myself, believe me I'm jealous that you can in most States in the US. 😁 We can own one here, but needs to be in an safe all the time and no rounds allowed loaded in it. Everything separate 😏


In the USA the states who have less public guns have the highest crime rates.

Top Ten


1. District of Columbia5,416.092. New Mexico3,944.963. Alaska3,777.894. Louisiana3,711.295. South Carolina3,451.586. Arkansas3,442. 677. Oklahoma3,277.088. Tennessee3,247.839. Alabama3,185.2610. Missouri3,133.66

The Swiss have the best gun laws, they still allow ex military to keep their rifles at home.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Again I completely agree with this, and there are again far better options than this.
> 
> It is difficult here though to obtain items that you could use to defend yourself though. Of course there are the walking sticks and umbrellas etc... That others have already pointed out although you run the same risk, to a higher degree in my opinion as it would be far easier to take given the fact that you can hold on to the weapon itself instead of having to grab the wrist / arm behind the weapon. Also a 3 ft stick would be far slower to use than the knife.
> 
> ...


I could send you a video of a 3 foot 'stick' being faster than a knife. An old shipmate from the Coast Guard put a Blackswift thru the paces this past summer. A person with a knife would not stand a chance against that fiberglass 'stick'.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

madmax96 said:


> I can only imagine.
> Long time ago (begin of 90's) my dad was in the States to work. In 6 months he went down the west coast, loved it. Met a couple who invited him to their house to stay there for a few days, even though they left for holidays.
> 
> As if that was not already crazy enough to let an basically unknown person stay in your house, the very first thing they showed him is where the guns where kept, nothing hidden an all loaded and ready.
> ...


I got a shotgun under the Christmas tree in 4th grade. It was for my use, not supervised by adults. I have loaded weapons on every floor of my house. A person that breaks into your home is not going to wait for you to go upstairs and get a gun out of your safe, load it and come back. I could not sleep without them.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

olenickdesigns said:


> Ass


There is no need to act that way, don't you know it is Christmas? If your brother offends you, rebuke him, if he appologizes, then you must forgive him...calling him a foul name is not rebuking, it only makes you look *small.*


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)




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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

Slide-Easy said:


> I got a shotgun under the Christmas tree in 4th grade. It was for my use, not supervised by adults. I have loaded weapons on every floor of my house. A person that breaks into your home is not going to wait for you to go upstairs and get a gun out of your safe, load it and come back. I could not sleep without them.


Exactly my point, useless to own em if only allowed to store them in an safe unloaded, makes me sad 😔.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

The Apprentice said:


> If a big fat guy pulls a knife on a thin fit guy the best option would be to run and gain distance on him, then turn, take out your catty and begin target practice, believe me after a couple of good hit to the legs or torso that guy is going to lay down his knife if you keep doing the same, he will be in so much pain when the shock sets in he has lost long before he can use his knife.


Don't count on it...


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Slide-Easy said:


> Don't count on it...


Why, is i because the fat guy has a catty as well?

Then it would be fun to see who got the first vital and most painful shot first, now that I would pay to watch.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> I could send you a video of a 3 foot 'stick' being faster than a knife. An old shipmate from the Coast Guard put a Blackswift thru the paces this past summer. A person with a knife would not stand a chance against that fiberglass 'stick'.


I would imagine it's the training and experience of the person welding said stick. 
Most people are not going to be as fast with a stick, it's just a lot larger and usually heavier. 

I am looking at potential real world scinarios, you are far more likely to take a stick from someone than a knife simply because you can't grab the blade itself. Many people will also back down when confronted with a knife, this is not so much the case with the stick. 

Again this isnt saying that a stick cannot be used but for the everyday person it is harder to use effectively, thus doesn't mean I condone not training with whatever weapon you carry, this is a must.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

It all depends on the person weilding the stick and how heavy it is, the big advantage is reach, a swift slap on the side of the neck or temple or across the hand holding the knife and its good night Mr Lawrence.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> I could send you a video of a 3 foot 'stick' being faster than a knife. An old shipmate from the Coast Guard put a Blackswift thru the paces this past summer. A person with a knife would not stand a chance against that fiberglass 'stick'.


Thanks for sending me that, it is impressive I would still argue that a knife is faster, at least in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing, the stick moves fast enough when he swings it, the main issue is the set up for the swing.

The second that's worth pointing out is that the inertia produced by the swing would make it very hard to change the direction of the swing, this is quite a big issue when swinging it at someone with training, the easiest counter would to be to step in very close as he begins to swing, this would put him off balance and you could use the inertia he creates himself against him. 

This would be a fantastic defence against a person with no training there's no doubt about that. 

The knife is still quicker though, if you use a knife for combat the idea is to maintain distance and make very small and quick movements with the blade. 

Most people who carry knives to defend themselves have no idea what they are doing, this is dangerous and in this case the stick would be a better option, it's amazing to me the amount of people who actually hold the knife in they're rear hand as if they were going to punch with it instead of simply swapping they're stance. 

I still maintain that the stick is easier to take from someone and I will admit than in a real wotld situation where its highly likely that neither attacker or victim have any form of training then the stick would be a better option.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

A stick with a hooked handle would be nigh on impossible for someone to remove one handed.

Stick fighting is slow, not so,

A seasoned knife fighter and a seasoned staff fighter, the outcome would be the staff user.


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## olenickdesigns (Oct 2, 2021)

madmax96 said:


> I can only imagine.
> Long time ago (begin of 90's) my dad was in the States to work. In 6 months he went down the west coast, loved it. Met a couple who invited him to their house to stay there for a few days, even though they left for holidays.
> 
> As if that was not already crazy enough to let an basically unknown person stay in your house, the very first thing they showed him is where the guns where kept, nothing hidden an all loaded and ready.
> ...


yeah guess it all depends on the person. ive given buddies guns in the past but it would be hard to let someone in my gun safe, they would have to seem crazy trustworthy to do that these days. probably all depends on the area your in. theres always the places you have to keep eyes on the back of your head and places the doors stay unlocked most the week.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Thanks for sending me that, it is impressive I would still argue that a knife is faster, at least in the hands of someone that knows what they are doing, the stick moves fast enough when he swings it, the main issue is the set up for the swing.
> 
> The second that's worth pointing out is that the inertia produced by the swing would make it very hard to change the direction of the swing, this is quite a big issue when swinging it at someone with training, the easiest counter would to be to step in very close as he begins to swing, this would put him off balance and you could use the inertia he creates himself against him.
> 
> ...


I am just an old country boy(red-neck). That stick, as demonstrated, could flat out demoralize you and have you crying like a baby. Now, against someone trained with a Fairbairn Sykes, maybe I could agree with your conclusion. I have seen what that Blackswift has done to other objects it has struck(wood, metal, concrete, stacks of bushel baskets, bamboo ect) as we bought one to find out it's limits..head and foot came off, but the stick never broke.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> I am just an old country boy(red-neck). That stick, as demonstrated, could flat out demoralize you and have you crying like a baby. Now, against someone trained with a Fairbairn Sykes, maybe I could agree with your conclusion. I have seen what that Blackswift has done to other objects it has struck(wood, metal, concrete, stacks of bushel baskets, bamboo ect) as we bought one to find out it's limits..head and foot came off, but the stick never broke.


Like I said, in the most likely real world scinarios it would be a good option, the guy in the video also wouldn't look out of place carrying it. For someone like myself to be carrying in public in the UK would likely raise suspicion though I'm a physically fit 31 year old with a skin head who apparently looks a bit like a thug (according to the misses, I'm not sure why) but I would face a far lower chance of raising suspicion with the police if concealing a weapon of some sort. I have done this for several years and found that if you don't commit any crimes and generally act in a decent way, the likely hood of being searched is almost none existent. There may be a time in the future a case of mistaken identity or something is possible but its a very slim chance.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Plinker1 said:


> Like I said, in the most likely real world scinarios it would be a good option, the guy in the video also wouldn't look out of place carrying it. For someone like myself to be carrying in public in the UK would likely raise suspicion though I'm a physically fit 31 year old with a skin head who apparently looks a bit like a thug (according to the misses, I'm not sure why) but I would face a far lower chance of raising suspicion with the police if concealing a weapon of some sort. I have done this for several years and found that if you don't commit any crimes and generally act in a decent way, the likely hood of being searched is almost none existent. There may be a time in the future a case of mistaken identity or something is possible but its a very slim chance.


Let us not mince words...the UK imported, en mass, the reasons you need protection.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)




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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

treefork said:


> View attachment 359354


I have always thought that a water meter could let cops know a good time for a no-knock entry.


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## Plinker1 (Apr 26, 2019)

Slide-Easy said:


> Let us not mince words...the UK imported, en mass, the reasons you need protection.


One of the reasons yes, there are multiple reasons as there usually is, as an adult not running around playing gangsta you are correct, you are far more likely to be stabbed in a predominantly middle Eastern area than anywhere else, it doesn't help that we have a 2 tier legal system where criminals that deserve jail are spared it due to having different cultural norms. 

The huge increases in knife crime we see year on year involving young people though is a societal problem caused by refusal to make children take responsibility for l they're own actions. 

It's also a fact that all types violent of violent crime has risen dramatically with each new amendment to the firearms Bill, this has been consistent since the start of the last century. 

As a country we won't learn people are brainwashed, they have been for a long time, instead of stating facts politicians and main stream media want people to believe things would be far more violent if law abiding citizens were permitted effective self defence tools.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)




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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)




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## devils son in law (Sep 2, 2014)

TonyGreen1 said:


> A slingshot for self-defense, in my opinion, is a useless thing. It is better to have a small pistol with you that can save your life.


To say a weapon is useless because you should have a bigger weapon isn't a valid point. If you don't agree, you're welcome to stand in front of my catch box, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't be there for the second shot.

That being said, I get your point, Tony! 👍


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

devils son in law said:


> To say a weapon is useless because you should have a bigger weapon isn't a valid point. If you don't agree, you're welcome to stand in front of my catch box, I'd be willing to bet you wouldn't be there for the second shot.
> 
> That being said, I get your point, Tony! 👍


Heh heh!
I can guarantee you wouldn't stay around for a second one of these 1/2" lead balls at 200fps!
Or the 18mm lead at 160fps
I'm pretty sure that either of those would smash through a skull if the shot placement was right.
It's a matter of degrees I guess - obvs a pistol has to be about the best self defense tool, but if you live in a country where just having one in your house will get you 5 years in jail (don't even think about what they'll do to you if you use it) you have to look at other options.
Overall for effectiveness vs legality, in the UK at least I prefer a recurve bow and broadhead arrows.


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## Leadhead (8 mo ago)

I carry 1/2 inch lead for xl vermin .


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

Biker_Bob said:


> Heh heh!
> I can guarantee you wouldn't stay around for a second one of these 1/2" lead balls at 200fps!
> Or the 18mm lead at 160fps
> I'm pretty sure that either of those would smash through a skull if the shot placement was right.
> ...


I know for a fact 3/8 steel will drop a man with a chest shot. With the ammo sizes your saying here you might as well shoot them with a shot gun hahaha but it's definitely effective.


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Jcharmin92 said:


> I know for a fact 3/8 steel will drop a man with a chest shot. With the ammo sizes your saying here you might as well shoot them with a shot gun hahaha but it's definitely effective.


Just curious- how do you know?


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

Biker_Bob said:


> Just curious- how do you know?


I have shot a man who was trying to rob houses in my area with about 4 other people. I watched it all happen called the police then they came to my property, so I with a sling full butterfly shot one in the chest sweatshirt and all still dropped him immediately and they ran and then got busted.


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## Truck Driver (8 mo ago)

of course a slingshot is a good defense unit, at close range. Getting hit in the hit would stop anyone.


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Jcharmin92 said:


> I have shot a man who was trying to rob houses in my area with about 4 other people. I watched it all happen called the police then they came to my property, so I with a sling full butterfly shot one in the chest sweatshirt and all still dropped him immediately and they ran and then got busted.


Ooh, that's some real sh*t right there!
3/8" steel did it, 1/2" lead will definitely do it - I put one clean through two sides of a steel can yesterday.


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

Biker_Bob said:


> Ooh, that's some real sh*t right there!
> 3/8" steel did it, 1/2" lead will definitely do it - I put one clean through two sides of a steel can yesterday.


Yes brother very real luckily for me the idiots parked right outside of my home I watched them try to get into all my neighbor stuff and I knew I was the next one up so I went outside and waited I know it's not the smartest thing to do but I knew what I was doing and I did it well boy did it work the guy thought he got shot for real. So one half inch lead or even 3/8 lead will definitely do the trick!


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## SLING-N-SHOT (Jun 5, 2018)

Jcharmin92 said:


> Yes brother very real luckily for me the idiots parked right outside of my home I watched them try to get into all my neighbor stuff and I knew I was the next one up so I went outside and waited I know it's not the smartest thing to do but I knew what I was doing and I did it well boy did it work the guy thought he got shot for real. So one half inch lead or even 3/8 lead will definitely do the trick!


I remember you telling this story Jon and it cracking me up at the time, LOL

Didn’t you say you had snuck into the woods, out of sight, and the guy when tagged in the chest yelled out, I’m hit, I’m hit ? 

I can just picture it and still cracks me up 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darrell Allen

** SlingLyfe Band Up **


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> I remember you telling this story Jon and it cracking me up at the time, LOL
> 
> Didn’t you say you had snuck into the woods, out of sight, and the guy when tagged in the chest yelled out, I’m hit, I’m hit ?
> 
> ...


Lmao yes you are spot on he screamed like a female. I only shot 1 and it was enough to stop the whole bunch because of the screaming 😂


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

.


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

treefork said:


> .


Your absolutely wrong and I'm not bragging and so you know I can see what you delete in my email.... But I was just answering the question that's gets asked over an over. Castle doctrine law look it up. You come on my property with Ill intentions you better believe I will do something about it. And I was invisible to them as well. Thanks for your two cents though.


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Actually I don't know why I didn't think of this sooner, but if I was using a slingshot in self defense I would shoot Snipersling darts - one of those in the face will be sufficient.


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

Truck Driver said:


> of course a slingshot is a good defense unit, at close range. Getting hit in the hit would stop anyone.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Where are you guys hanging out, that you need lethal force self defence?


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

brucered said:


> Where are you guys hanging out, that you need lethal force self defence?


Chicago


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Minnesota


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

@treefork

I know it happens everywhere, it happens here too.

I've just never been in a situation where I felt like I needed to pull out a weapon to defend myself or anyone else. I live it the gang, arson, stolen vehicle and murder capital of Canada too.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

brucered said:


> @treefork
> 
> I know it happens everywhere, it happens here too.
> 
> I've just never been in a situation where I felt like I needed to pull out a weapon to defend myself or anyone else. I live it the gang, arson, stolen vehicle and murder capital of Canada too.


Outside of two war zones, neither have I, but if the time ever comes, I plan to have a gun at hand. The only way to insure that is to carry everywhere I go. I do obey the legally required signs forbidding concealed carry, but everywhere else, I'm carrying.


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## cwilkes (Nov 8, 2018)

Henry the Hermit said:


> Outside of two war zones, neither have I, but if the time ever comes, I plan to have a gun at hand. The only way to insure that is to carry everywhere I go. I do obey the legally required signs forbidding concealed carry, but everywhere else, I'm carrying.


I'm so jealous! You can be confident nobody is going to harm you.
We can go to jail for possessing components in a locked box under the floor, here.


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## SLING-N-SHOT (Jun 5, 2018)

brucered said:


> Where are you guys hanging out, that you need lethal force self defence?


LIFE…..there’s crazy people everywhere and you have to keep your head on a swivel and always be totally aware of your surroundings ….and be prepared to act if necessary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Darrell Allen

** SlingLyfe Band Up **


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

cwilkes said:


> I'm so jealous! You can be confident nobody is going to harm you.
> We can go to jail for possessing components in a locked box under the floor, here.


It's daft isn't it.
In the UK the best & cheapest & most freely available lethal weapon has to the bow and arrow, you can practice at any one of the hundreds of archery clubs up and down the land and my 40lb recurve sends a 33" 550gn arrow at 170 fps - with a broadhead tip that will nail a man to the wall he's standing in front of. £50 it cost......


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## cwilkes (Nov 8, 2018)

Biker_Bob said:


> It's daft isn't it.
> In the UK the best & cheapest & most freely available lethal weapon has to the bow and arrow, you can practice at any one of the hundreds of archery clubs up and down the land and my 40lb recurve sends a 33" 550gn arrow at 170 fps - with a broadhead tip that will nail a man to the wall he's standing in front of. £50 it cost......


Haha yes! 
I agree with you.
And yet it's illegal to hunt with, but I can bonk the same quarry with a steel BB no problem.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

cwilkes said:


> I'm so jealous! You can be confident nobody is going to harm you.
> We can go to jail for possessing components in a locked box under the floor, here.


Sadly, no, I cannot be confident no one is going to harm me, but I will have a fighting chance, at 79, of stopping a younger, stronger attacker.


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## Malemute (8 mo ago)

Pebble Shooter said:


> A slingshot for self defense? Only as the very last option on the long list of better options - although I suppose it does depend on the type of slingshot being carried, and whether it's useful as a hitting tool, like this design:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


30 yrs ago I moved from the communist state of New York to Pennsylvania! One of the biggest reasons was because in New York. You do NOT have the right to defend yourself. You can't get a concealed carry permit for a handgun ,You can't use pepper spray, mace , CS gas or a knife etc. A slingshot is about all you can carry legally and it can't have an arm brace. That must mean that it is too powerful and might be used to kill people!


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## cwilkes (Nov 8, 2018)

Henry the Hermit said:


> Sadly, no, I cannot be confident no one is going to harm me, but I will have a fighting chance, at 79, of stopping a younger, stronger attacker.


And that's how it should be, because that's fair


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Malemute said:


> 30 yrs ago I moved from the communist state of New York to Pennsylvania! One of the biggest reasons was because in New York. You do NOT have the right to defend yourself. You can't get a concealed carry permit for a handgun ,You can't use pepper spray, mace , CS gas or a knife etc. A slingshot is about all you can carry legally and it can't have an arm brace. That must mean that it is too powerful and might be used to kill people!


It sounds like I need to move from the UK to Pennsylvania too.
Everything you state above is true in the UK, doubly so in fact - they're arresting and charging people now for offending other people, not "hatespeech" just giving offense by saying something.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Your slingshots going to be ok until they pull their 9mm and start shooting back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Malemute (8 mo ago)

cromag said:


> This subject popped up a while back to some mixed reviews. My response was to make what I thought a self defense frame would look like. With this frame after you shot someone and they were advancing toward you to kick your azz I reasoned you might be able to poke them in the eye before running.
> View attachment 358133





cromag said:


> This subject popped up a while back to some mixed reviews. My response was to make what I thought a self defense frame would look like. With this frame after you shot someone and they were advancing toward you to kick your azz I reasoned you might be able to poke them in the eye before running.
> View attachment 358133


Cromag that frame would be very effective in a fight. Slam that spike into a persons ribs and that will take the fight out of them! Probably break a rib or two. Looks good!


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## EllipsisNL (Mar 2, 2021)

If you want to defend yourself, learn a grappling martial art - folkstyle wrestling, Brazilian jujitsu, judo - whatever is available to you. 

The reality of most self defense situations is that over 80% of the time you're going to be ambushed. You likely won't see that knife or haymaker coming. The initial attack will be a surprise and you will have no time to draw a weapon. The fight has started already and you're fighting for initiative. 

Actually learning how to fight is the best form of self defense, no matter what shape you're in or age you're at. Combat sports are objectively the best way to learn how to fight. See what combat sports are avaliable in your area that you can afford. Boxing and judo tend to be widely avaliable, they are pressure tested, and are on the more affordable side. Brazilian Jujitsu is popular but tends to be on the "overpriced" side of things. If wrestling is available to you at a local uni, DO THAT. 

In self defense situations, your goal isn't necessarily to beat your opponent. That CAN be a method of coming out on top, but it isn't 100% necessary. Your goal is to survive and avoid as much harm as possible (ideally in a way that is legal, because ending up in prison is a shitty way to defend yourself). Ultimately your goal is to buy yourself time until backup gets there to end the conflict, either neighbors or police or whoever.

People like to say RUNNING is the best form of self defense but there's a lot of bullshit to that. Not only is running an unavailable option - because of the surprise attack nature of most self defense scenerios - it's also a very bad idea if your attacker(s) is in better shape than you and can catch up to you after a race. Not only did you NOT avoid the fight, but now you're in a fight and you're gassed out and winded, which is the worst possible case you could ever put yourself in. 

Slingshots fall in the category of "ambush weapon". They take a long time to load + reload. They can either do negligible amounts of damage, or they can go through soft vital parts and potentially end a life. There isn't much in-between. Just for these two reasons alone, they fall in to "horrible for self defense" category. 

A related but separate topic would be HOME DEFENSE. There are significant differences between "home defense" situations and "self defense" situations. More often in home defense, you'll have more time to prepare and meet your attacker. There is more wiggle room for what is legal use. From a psychological standpoint, it's more terrifying. Homes are supposed to be safe havens and personal spaces. Home invaders cross far more lines than some attacker on the street or a bar, especially if you're the head of the household and have children to protect. For that reason, I take an "anything goes" mind set. If a slingshot and ammo is nearby, why the hell not. I'd rather opt for something a lot more lethal, faster to grab and go. I keep a spear under my bed and a baseball bat in my office. If legal, a shotgun is pretty much hands down the greatest thing you can have for home defense.


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## HOE (Nov 13, 2010)

EllipsisNL said:


> If you want to defend yourself, learn a grappling martial art - folkstyle wrestling, Brazilian jujitsu, judo - whatever is available to you.
> 
> The reality of most self defense situations is that over 80% of the time you're going to be ambushed. You likely won't see that knife or haymaker coming. The initial attack will be a surprise and you will have no time to draw a weapon. The fight has started already and you're fighting for initiative.
> 
> ...


There is a Chinese man here who was once mugged by 3 guys armed with knives, he beat down 2 of them empty-handed, both landed in the hospital, the 3rd mugger escaped.. He himself suffered several cut wounds. Real Chinese Kungfu Master! Now he's already in his 80's, still can climb on top of roofs together with the renovators.

Traditional Chinese teachers will actually beat up their own students while they least expect it, especially during sleep at night. It trains awareness, far more important than any technique! Never let anyone get you from your back!


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## EllipsisNL (Mar 2, 2021)

HOE said:


> There is a Chinese man here who was once mugged by 3 guys armed with knives, he beat down 2 of them empty-handed, both landed in the hospital, the 3rd mugger escaped.. He himself suffered several cut wounds. Real Chinese Kungfu Master! Now he's already in his 80's, still can climb on top of roofs together with the renovators.
> 
> Traditional Chinese teachers will actually beat up their own students while they least expect it, especially during sleep at night. It trains awareness, far more important than any technique! Never let anyone get you from your back!



That would be a clear cut example between someone that actually practices fighting and someone who thinks they can fight but never goes out of their way to do it and is afraid of having their pride hurt.

For one reason or another, we as a society attribute fighting ability to masculinity. Ask most guys if they could solve a high level math problem and many would freely admit, no, because they did not take the years to educate and discipline themselves in that field. Yet, ask most guys if they know how to fight, or think they could handle themselves in a fight, they'll be like "pffffft yea of course I can" despite never practicing with any sort of combat with any amount of discipline, with their only experience MAYBE being some street fight or bar fight. If you, the reader, come anywhere near this description, I would ask you to reconsider.

Reconsider your actual experience with combat. What are you trained to do? Do you have a concealed carry to defend yourself with? Do you ACTUALLY think you'd be able to use it in a chaotic scenario? Do you train yourself and pressure test your skills in controlled environments and with non compliant opponents? If not, recall the old saying, "we do not rise to the occasion, we fall to the level of our training." If the level of your training is in non-stressful target shooting, or in hand-to-hand combat with opponents who go with your flow in an aikido like fashion, once you're thrown into the fire, you're going to disappoint yourself and get a reality check you were not prepared for.

If you really want to be good at self defense, know that self defense is a marketing phrase and a legal term. Remove those contexts and you get the reality of the situation. Self defense is combat.

If you're actually worried about scenarios where you may be in combat with another person or people, you have two options. You could take the lazy way out and develop a false sense of security from whatever concealed carry pistol or knife or whatever your fancy is, never actually practice a day in your life against a resisting opponent, and then rely on luck and an untrained, unfit opponent to win the day. OR, you can get out there and train every day. I recommended the latter.


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## Malemute (8 mo ago)

Dee Based said:


> So, this is probably ridiculous, but the other night I was out in the park after dark and took along my F16 and some marbles just in case. I own a Bersa Thunder .380 and a Colt 1911, but both of them are too large for me to carry concealed comfortably (say that 3 times fast)! The F16 is just a slingshot, but a marble moving 200 fps has to sting enough to make a bad guy think twice. Plus if you shoot someone with a firearm your life is going to go topsy turvy for (at least) a few years waiting out the criminal charges and civil suits and the trauma of maybe ending someone's life, but hopefully a slingshot hit would just make someone run away and you'd never have to deal with them again. Could be the difference between patting yourself on the back after an encounter or having to take out a 2nd mortgage to pay off the 'victim.' So I'm not thinking the F16 will replace a firearm by any means, but it's something that's easy to carry and should provide 'some' personal defense. That's the theory, anyway. Anyone else ever carry a slingshot for self-defense?
> 
> Hope you're all having a good week! (If it violates any forum rules to post a pic of a firearm I'm happy to remove them.)
> 
> ...


I started carrying a slingshot for defense about six months ago My slingshot is a side shooter, I use bands from Simpleshot that are made for 1/2" steel balls. For ammo I use 50 caliber lead balls from Hornady (for muzzle loaders). I guarantee that If I make a head shot that that person is going DOWN! My only concern with using a slingshot is having a chance to get it loaded and ready in an emergency. I carry my slingshot primarily to church or out shopping. I anyone causes a problem I should be able to load and shoot from behind a shelf or sitting in a pew. NO you won't be doing any Matt Dillon -Gunsmoke type shooting. Stay away from bad places an i hope that you are always safe Brian


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## Malemute (8 mo ago)

cromag said:


> Cromag that would be a very effective weapon in a fight! If you were to slam that point into someones ribs or chest I'm sure that it will penetrate. Definitely hurt like hell! I like your design!
> This subject popped up a while back to some mixed reviews. My response was to make what I thought a self defense frame would look like. With this frame after you shot someone and they were advancing toward you to kick your azz I reasoned you might be able to poke them in the eye before running.
> View attachment 358133


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