# Snipersling 0.5 test



## High Desert Flipper

Here is a sorta rigorous and sorta messy comparison between a couple of 0.5mm latex brands. I have been eager to look at the newish Snipersling and Sandstorm was generous enough to send some samples when he got rolls of both the yellow and black. In short, these both make great brands even though they are quite different, with the yellow being very supple and the black being stiffer and heavier pulling.

Now for the messy part of the comparison- I did say it was going to get messy, didn't I?

Every time I compare different latex brands I feel like I want to pick a winner, and this time I can't do that. Hopefully you all can look at the data and agree with me that a champ can't be picked or declare a champion for yourself. The reason I had trouble was that all the latex brands I compared varied quite a bit in optimal active length and draw weight. So I included draw weight, speed data with 3/8" and 5/16" ammo for a couple of different active lengths for each latex. I hope all find this info useful for finding whatever sweet spot you want to get to when balancing draw weight vs velocity vs longevity. I did condense some of the data into an "efficiency table" where I calculated velocity per pound of draw weight to find the most efficient latex.

Interestingly the Precise 3rd gen was the champion for efficiency, although it was also the slowest latex of the bunch (barely). If you want the most bang (fps) per pound of draw weight the Precise 3rd gen is it. Also interesting was that efficiency declined with increasing elongation. As expected and obvious, all bands shot faster when they were stretched farther. However, looking at fps / lb draw weight all of the latex brands got less efficient when stretched farther. So stretching farther did result in shooting faster but came at a small cost in efficiency. I would not have predicted this and the effect is small, but consistent between all brands and interesting to note.

As far as outright speed goes, the Snipersling black is clearly the champion of the bunch putting 3/8" steel out at ~242 fps and 5/16" steel out at ~275 fps when stretched to 600%. Pretty crazy speeds for short draw 0.5 bands. The flipside of this is these bands had a draw weight of 18.9 lbs under these conditions! Also pretty crazy for 0.5 latex. For comparison, the Precise 3rd and Sniper Yellow both put 3/8" steel over 210 fps and 5/16" steel at over 240 fps with a 550% elongation factor and draw weights right around 12 lbs. Pretty cool to get ~88% of the speed with only ~64% of the draw weight.

So here's my bottom line- Precise 3rd, Simpleshot, Sniper yellow and black are all perform very well and none is a huge step above the rest. And they all span a wide range of optimal elongation factors and draw weights. I don't think you can go wrong with any of them.

If speed is your only criteria, the Snipersling black is for you.

If I had to pick a champion for myself out of all this, I would bail on the outright top speed and pick the Snipersling yellow. It has the very stretchy silky smooth draw I love with the Precise 3rd gen and shoots just a touch faster than the Precise, although it also pulls just a touch heavier as well.

Snipersling claims that the yellow is up to 5% faster than other brands and the black is up to 10% faster than others. While they were faster in my testing I didn't see that big of a gap. I will note that Sniper does have a video of a speed test up and it was done at full butterfly, so maybe with the longer draw / powerstroke it might make the claimed numbers. That said, from my short draw test it is detectably, though marginally, faster than some of the other current top brands.

Bottom line- I wasn't able to reproduce the speeds improvements they claim but I can say the Snipersling latex is some good fast shooting stuff that is at least on par with, if not a slight step up, from some of the current front runners.

The test details: All new bands with Simpleshot med kangaroo pouches, all mounted on PP sideshooter frames, all were 27-18 sharpened tapers cut using a plexiglass template. Testing was carried out over a couple of different days but temperatures between days were close, so the results should all be pretty consistent. Since most of these were fairly stretchy, I shot them at 550% and 600% elongation factors. The Sniper yellow and Precise 3rd were both stretchy enough I also added a 625% series for those. Snipersling claims its bands can go to 650%. Without having tried that I my feeling is the yellow would make it there easily while the black felt like it was getting maxed out at 600%- it might go to 650% but would pull substantially harder getting there. Note that the Snipersling yellow at 625% elongation had a draw weight similar to Simpleshot and Sniper black when both were only stretched 550% (all ~15.5 lbs), and at this draw weight both of the Snipers shot ~4% faster than the simpleshot (low 230's to low 220's).

I realize the 27-18 tapers are a bit unusual. I like them because they nicely fill the forks on PP Scorpion, Taurus, and Sideshooter frames that I use most often. Also because this taper in 0.5 send 3/8" steel out at about the same speed as 27-18 tapers of 0.8 latex do with 7/16" steel- so I get a consistent sight picture and trajectory with my "light" setups for 3/8" and heavy setups for 7/16". And the large tapers are necessary to get the 7/16" at or over 220 fps from my short draw.

I will do a bit more testing with some more conventional tapers to let everyone see how these perform with some more conventional cuts- probably 24-16 and 20-12 since I have templates for these. I expect the relative performance will stay the same but it will be interesting to get ballpark numbers for draw weight and velocity with these more common tapers. Stay tuned.

I have also put the Snipersling bands on my daily shooters and will see how long they last compared to the Precise 3rd I am used to. I am horrible at counting shots but I should get a feeling for whether I get the 1-2 weeks or so of near daily shooting out of these or if the Sniper latex fails in three days or less. I will update when I get this rough indicator of durability back.


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## KawKan

Great info and even better analysis here, IMHO!

Thanks for grinding through it, and sharing the results.

I was especially happy to see your efficiency results. That really supports my inclination to set up bands and tubes with well under max stretch.


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## SLINGDUDE

Very informative! Thanks for putting in the time and sharing the results.

I mostly shoot flats in the .45 to .55 thickness range so this is right up my alley. I have also noticed that the simpleshot black latex pulls a little heavier than others in the same thickness.


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## High Desert Flipper

KawKan said:


> Great info and even better analysis here, IMHO!
> 
> Thanks for grinding through it, and sharing the results.
> 
> I was especially happy to see your efficiency results. That really supports my inclination to set up bands and tubes with well under max stretch.


I was really surprised to see the efficiency results, I was expecting the opposite. But it does indeed support setting up bands with lower elongation ratios with a double bonus of higher efficiency and longer life. Maybe like the rest of life it is all about compromise. And finding the best tradeoff between efficiency, performance, and longevity is the challenge.

I guess it just means you step up to thicker quicker for larger ammo. Either that or learn to long draw.

I am thinking I will re-invent the wheel (again) by testing draw length / power stroke next but doing efficiency numbers with that- i.e. seeing how a longer power stroke affects both performance and efficiency. I did it once with thin tubes (no efficiency numbers) but have been wanting to see with flat bands. Especially since my curiosity for butterfly is up again with all the recent discussion.


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## High Desert Flipper

SLINGDUDE said:


> Very informative! Thanks for putting in the time and sharing the results.
> 
> I mostly shoot flats in the .45 to .55 thickness range so this is right up my alley. I have also noticed that the simpleshot black latex pulls a little heavier than others in the same thickness.


Yes, the Simpleshot has a relatively high draw weight compared to the others. It was interesting for me to see the numbers. I never considered Simpleshot a "heavy" puller. But then again, I was always amazed at how light the Precise 3rd was. So maybe the Simpleshot is normal and the Precise is "light"?

Numbers aside, it was easy to feel how light the sniper yellow pulled and how stiff the sniper black was compared to the others.


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## Reed Lukens

Very good information Steve


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## Sandstorm

Great job with the numbers Steve. Thanks for sharing!


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## High Desert Flipper

I put the sniper black and yellow on PP Scorpion frames and will use these as my regular every day shooters for a bit and see how long the bands last.

I put a magnet's worth of ammo (probably 50-75 shots) through each today and was hitting really well.

Both performed as expected, I am using the black for 3/8" and getting mid 230's. The yellow is giving upper 240's with 5/16". I will see if they last the week plus I hope for out of bands and check them on the chrony now and then to see if they keep their zip.

I am really liking these. Next time I need to order more 0.5 these may be it.


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## Sandstorm

Yeah I know I had had already told you, but for the rest of the gang, it's become my everyday stuff. The yellow is probably my favorite, the draw on the stuff is super smooth. Although I did really like that Precise 3rd gen you had sent me too. Next time I'm buying latex gonna go for some Catty Shack Blue and Theraband Blue. I read both were really nice and if you haven't tried those I'll send you out some for you to work your magic on. I need to look into where to buy theraband though. That's the old standby but it hasn't touched one of my frames yet. I haven't seen anything but the amber sold through Simpleshot. Sammy did send me some orange looking stuff but it's unlabeled so it'll have to remain mystery latex at this point.  Sometimes mystery latex is darn fine stuff!


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## High Desert Flipper

I have tried the catty green but not the blue. The Catty green 0.82 is the fastest I tried have for 7/16", just barely but reproducibly beating out Simpleshot 0.8. Although it comes at a cost, the Catty green 0.82 is about at the limit of what I can pull and shoot accurately. While the SS lags behind by a few fps, I am more accurate with it since it pulls a few lbs lighter.


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## Sandstorm

Oh!!! You sent me some and I forgot!! The catty green that is. Looks like I’ll be cutting some bands later! Let out my inner Jorg Sprave. But I’m getting off topic lol


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## cromag

High Desert Flipper said:


> SLINGDUDE said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very informative! Thanks for putting in the time and sharing the results.
> 
> I mostly shoot flats in the .45 to .55 thickness range so this is right up my alley. I have also noticed that the simpleshot black latex pulls a little heavier than others in the same thickness.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, the Simpleshot has a relatively high draw weight compared to the others. It was interesting for me to see the numbers. I never considered Simpleshot a "heavy" puller. But then again, I was always amazed at how light the Precise 3rd was. So maybe the Simpleshot is normal and the Precise is "light"?
> 
> Numbers aside, it was easy to feel how light the sniper yellow pulled and how stiff the sniper black was compared to the others.
Click to expand...

Great info , much appreciated . Curious how you are measuring the draw weights.


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## High Desert Flipper

cromag said:


> Great info , much appreciated . Curious how you are measuring the draw weights.


I measure draw weights using a cheap luggage scale I got off of Amazon- I can't remember but it was only like $15 or something and comes in handy for slingshots, bows, backpacking equip, etc..

The PP Sideshooter frames are nice for measuring draw weight, they are uniform thickness HDPE that you can crank into a vise to hold it. From there I put a yard stick down, attach the luggage scale to the pouch, and pull back along the yardstick with the scale to get the weight.

Since latex has hysteresis, the weight starts to drop slowly but steadily after you get it pulled back- and this makes it challenging and frustrating to get a draw weight. So to get what I hope is a consistent and accurate weight I usually give it two or three tugs to half or two thirds of the draw length, then pull it back and try to catch the weight as quickly as I can after I get it pulled back.

It might be better, or at least more consistent, to hold it at full draw for 3-5 seconds and let the weight settle in, but I think the way I am doing it is realistic for shooting.

But I do get variability measuring draw weights this way. I usually take several measurements and go until I get two or three in a row that vary by less than 10% and take the average of those for the draw weight.


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## cromag

I use the same type of scale on my bows and get a very accurate reading when compared to a static weight however I was afraid the loss of weight with bands over time would not allow my scale a stable enough period to give a fixed number. I tried to duplicate your numbers , it didn't matter as my scale had crapped out so I was unable get draw weights. However I was able to get a speed comparison between SS black .5 and BSB (white) .5 with the same approximate band tapers on the same frame with 3/8 and 7/16. At my mile high altitude with 6" active bands the SS black was in the mid 240's , the BSB a marginal 5 fps faster but the BSB draws much smoother without the stacking of the SS black. However , I saw little difference in speed when I moved up to the 7/16 , both running between 210 and 220.

Lots of variables involved but fun to compare before the skies darken and another toad floater hits the high chaparral. :thumbsup:


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## High Desert Flipper

cromag said:


> I use the same type of scale on my bows and get a very accurate reading when compared to a static weight however I was afraid the loss of weight with bands over time would not allow my scale a stable enough period to give a fixed number. I tried to duplicate your numbers , it didn't matter as my scale had crapped out so I was unable get draw weights. However I was able to get a speed comparison between SS black .5 and BSB (white) .5 with the same approximate band tapers on the same frame with 3/8 and 7/16. At my mile high altitude with 6" active bands the SS black was in the mid 240's , the BSB a marginal 5 fps faster but the BSB draws much smoother without the stacking of the SS black. However , I saw little difference in speed when I moved up to the 7/16 , both running between 210 and 220.
> 
> Lots of variables involved but fun to compare before the skies darken and another toad floater hits the high chaparral. :thumbsup:


I have a hard time getting a good static draw weight reading but do the best I can to get an initial draw weight before it decays.

I guess one relevant detail I omitted was draw length- mine is a bit short (29 inches). Differences in draw length should change speed between shooters, though the relative speed of different bands should stay the same even as draw length changes between shooters. I usually get speeds just a bit lower than others report and I attribute this me having a slightly shorter draw. Other small differences may be things like exactly how active length is measured. Overall, when trying to duplicate other people's results I usually get the relative rank of bands (faster and slower) right but come in a bit under what other people report for speeds.

So my band active lengths for ~550% elongation were 5.5", and 5" active length for ~600% (and I rounded to the the ~550 and ~600%, these would be right if my draw was 30").

Your speeds are a bit faster than mine and my guess is differences in draw length,. I would bet the relative speed of the bands will be similar and people who draw longer than I do will get higher numbers overall. I have never tried BSB, but it sounds like really good stuff, slightly ahead of SS.

Here is a link to a scale really similar to mine- looks like the same thing but a year or two newer.

https://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-Multifunction-Electronic/dp/B0012TDR9E/ref=sr_1_10?dchild=1&keywords=luggage+scale&qid=1622934247&sr=8-10


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## cromag

I took my scale apart to see if there was something obvious but was unable to fix it , even accidentally which is always a bonus.  I'll pick up another tomorrow , they are pretty accurate. My draw length is about 31" to the back of my jaw , definitely enough to make a difference as you referenced. I have also wondered how people measure for active length , I measure from the tie wraps to the tie wraps , fork to pouch, and was using about 6". Sounds to me that the BSB and the Precise Gen.3 have very similar traits.


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## High Desert Flipper

cromag said:


> I took my scale apart to see if there was something obvious but was unable to fix it , even accidentally which is always a bonus.  I'll pick up another tomorrow , they are pretty accurate. My draw length is about 31" to the back of my jaw , definitely enough to make a difference as you referenced. I have also wondered how people measure for active length , I measure from the tie wraps to the tie wraps , fork to pouch, and was using about 6". Sounds to me that the BSB and the Precise Gen.3 have very similar traits.


How to measure active length exactly is another one I struggle with and change a bit time to time. I don't think the doubled over elastic ahead of the pouch and under the tie stretches nearly as well as the band so I have started leaving that out instead of measuring active length from the frame tie to the pouch- in this case the "active length" might be 1/4" longer than if I measured from frame tie to pouch. When testing I do the same for all bands made for that test. So between active length measurement method and draw length there may be some absoslute differences in velocity between users although I expect the relative rankings of various elastics to stay the same.

As for draw length, looking at how big its effect is will probably be my next test. Another chance for me to re-invent the wheel since it has been done several times. But I am an experiential learning and sometimes doing it again for myself helps me a lot.


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## Trap1

Interesting! Only jist readin' this... need tae digest the above


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## cromag

I'll complicate issues more. I picked up a new luggage scale today and took some readings on my bands at 31".

.5 BSB white 27-18 , 6' active length------12.25#

.5 SSblack 27-18 , 6" active length-------13.75#

31" draw


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## High Desert Flipper

cromag said:


> I'll complicate issues more. I picked up a new luggage scale today and took some readings on my bands at 31".
> 
> .5 BSB white 27-18 , 6' active length------12.25#
> 
> .5 SSblack 27-18 , 6" active length-------13.75#
> 
> 31" draw


Huh, maybe I should check my scale. It's been through a few drops and a couple of bow building blowups, but I've never had reason to question it, or check / calibrate it.


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## High Desert Flipper

High Desert Flipper said:


> cromag said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll complicate issues more. I picked up a new luggage scale today and took some readings on my bands at 31".
> 
> .5 BSB white 27-18 , 6' active length------12.25#
> 
> .5 SSblack 27-18 , 6" active length-------13.75#
> 
> 31" draw
> 
> 
> 
> Huh, maybe I should check my scale. It's been through a few drops and a couple of bow building blowups, but I've never had reason to question it, or check / calibrate it.
Click to expand...

So I just checked my scale on a gallon of water. Store bought, may not be exactly a gallon and the thin plastic bottle doesn't add much compared to the water- so it should be close but probably not exact. The interwebs said it should weigh ~8.34 lbs and my scale called it 8.61 lbs- not perfect but not very far off and probably within the slop from the store fill and container.

So aside from a small sigh of relief over the bow I am currently working on, but I'm puzzled over our different numbers. And actually, the sigh over the current bow project is significant- after a few spectacular blowups with a hickory backed maple laminate I learned a few things and have one I am optimistic coming along. Hoping that what I am trying to make around 45 lbs won't come in at 31!

I wonder what could be causing the difference. The Simpleshot 0.5 I tested is nearly a year old, always stored in the dark but mostly at room temp (a couple months in a fridge at my office but half or more of the time at ambient temp in my garage, but always in the dark). And while it isn't a great check, my feeling from drawing all 4 brands of latex is that the scale got the relative weights right even if the absolute numbers are off.

But I think this is the strength of a forum like this- I appreciate hearing about the difference in our measurements and hope that figuring out the explanation for it will be enlightening.

I will recheck my numbers on the bands I tested later today or tomorrow to make sure I didn't have a silly mistake in how I measured.


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## High Desert Flipper

I recently compared Precise 3rd 0.5 to 0.55, so I went back and looked at the numbers from that test as well. The tapers and elongation were the same (assuming I measured elongation exactly the same each time). And the numbers were off a bit but not much, I got 14.2 lbs for draw weight last time and 14.8 this time. Considering they were different band sets made at different times, and the difficulty I have measuring an initial draw weight before it starts to decay, these are pretty close. I'd be happy if they were closer, but not so far off. So if there is an error in my scale or method it's been happening consistently for a while. I can't recall putting numbers up for SS 0.5 in the past but I will check and see if I did that before, and if so, how it compares to this current test.


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## cromag

I have not tried to calibrate the new scale yet but the last one was right on. Just so many variables involved but from the feel it confirms the lack of stacking I feel with the BSB vs the SS. Just a .25 difference in length translates into substantial differences when stretched 500 or 550%. I have tried to find out what my grip strength is holding the pouch without surrounding the ball and it's very hard to get consistent readings so I'm not surprised at the differences. After I started shooting a bow I always got a kick out of seeing the Indians in the old movies holding those bows pinching the arrows at full draw,,,,some strong dudes for sure


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## High Desert Flipper

I didn't re-test everything but did re-check a couple when I got home- the draw weight for the Simple and Sniper. I also re-measured the active length and even band width (I hadn't ever checked this since I assumed the plexiglass templates I ordered were accurate). I can't find a mistake. Band widths are as printed on the template, active length is what I intended (5.5" at 29" draw for ~550%, 5" at 29 for ~600%), and when I put them back on the Sideshooter frame and in the vise both pulled ~19 lbs at 29" with 600% elongation as before. Both also decayed ~1lb before the scale locked in a reading. I haven't checked to see if my rulers and yardstick are correct but..... I also was also shooting the sniper black and yellow a bit today so got the chrony back out and at 550% the black was putting 3/8" our at mid 230's as before and the sniper yellow on another everyday frame and it was putting 5/16" out in low 250's

I'm puzzled and intrigued.


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## High Desert Flipper

cromag said:


> I have tried to find out what my grip strength is holding the pouch without surrounding the ball and it's very hard to get consistent readings so I'm not surprised at the differences. After I started shooting a bow I always got a kick out of seeing the Indians in the old movies holding those bows pinching the arrows at full draw,,,,some strong dudes for sure


I can't imagine pinch drawing a bow. And I have tried pinching the ball instead of the pouch with a slingshot- can do it with light bands but it gets hard for me pretty quickly. I have seen videos of people doing it and my hat is off to them. For now I am content to try to pinch lightly ahead of the ball keeping the unused fingers out of the way so that both the thumb and index finger can move when I release.


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## SteveJ

I know nothing but, the .50 yellow snipersling is the fav out of about 5 different ones Ive tried , but ymmv. I was gonna try the black , but prob wont now. I get the yellow real dirty looking quick


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## Sandstorm

Yeah I think they put magic in the yellow stuff. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## High Desert Flipper

I agree. If I was trying to win a speed contest it would be the Sniper black. But the yellow is my favorite out of the four I compared here, very smooth draw and relatively light weight for keeping most of the speed. Although it is hard to go wrong with any of the four I tried.


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## cromag

Durability will be an interesting feature down the road , that's the one thing I have been disappointed about with the BSB. I didn't get 100 shots out of the bandset I made to match your 27-18 taper before it spit the bit at full draw about 2" from the pouch and left a nice hickey on my forearm  Possible I nicked it somewhere and should have checked before drawing , however it has seemed on some less extreme tapers the BSB has higher failure rates than the Precise and SS I have used.

I did retie the SS black bands to a Torque frame and drew to 31" after tying at 5.5" and had draw weights between 15.35 and 14.68#. I calibrated my new scale with two 100 oz. Ag bars which should have a total weight of 13.72 pounds , it read 13.86, pretty close considering the plastic wrap and grocery bag I had them in. 

No question I am going to have to try the Sniper yellow and black latex


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## Sandstorm

cromag said:


> Durability will be an interesting feature down the road , that's the one thing I have been disappointed about with the BSB. I didn't get 100 shots out of the bandset I made to match your 27-18 taper before it spit the bit at full draw about 2" from the pouch and left a nice hickey on my forearm  Possible I nicked it somewhere and should have checked before drawing , however it has seemed on some less extreme tapers the BSB has higher failure rates than the Precise and SS I have used.
> 
> I did retie the SS black bands to a Torque frame and drew to 31" after tying at 5.5" and had draw weights between 15.35 and 14.68#. I calibrated my new scale with two 100 oz. Ag bars which should have a total weight of 13.72 pounds , it read 13.86, pretty close considering the plastic wrap and grocery bag I had them in.
> 
> No question I am going to have to try the Sniper yellow and black latex


I'll check and see how much I have, I can probably send you some if you're interested? I'm sure you'll wanna compare it while the topic's hot.


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## Sandstorm

Cromag: I don't have a whole lot because everyone I let use it wants some lol but I can probably snip you off enough for a decent amount of band sets. I'll PM you later about it.


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## High Desert Flipper

The Sniper black bands I used for the test broke just ahead of the pouch tie today in the 4th session. Granted they had been abused a bit at 600% elongation and probably went 200-300 shots, but this is still a bit early compared to my usual norm I am used to with the Precise 3rd I have been using for a while. I had the chrony out and they were still holding low to mid 230's when they gave it up. The yellow is still hanging in there and also holding it's snap and speed.


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## Sandstorm

Nice! I mean crappy for the blacks but still. And like you said you have them pretty hot


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## High Desert Flipper

Sandstorm said:


> Nice! I mean crappy for the blacks but still. And like you said you have them pretty hot


I am betting the would have made the week at 550%, and probably a good bit longer at 500%, so not so bad at all even if a bit less than I am used to with the Precise 3rd. Will see how long the yellows hold out. I got called out of town but packed the frame with the yellows on it so will see if I can keep on shooting them, and preserving my sanity, over the next few days.


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## High Desert Flipper

Here are some results for Snipersling yellow and black with some more traditional tapers. The yellow was speed tested on a hot afternoon, right around 100 degrees, and the black on a "cool" June desert morning in the mid 70's.


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## Sandstorm

I don’t have enough experience with ammo velocities yet but from the few YouTube videos I’ve seen, that would make something up in the 250’s pretty darned fast, correct? It’s interesting to see the difference in the FPS of the black and the yellow too, considering the palpable difference in draw weight. Pretty close it looks like. Unless that temperature difference had a major impact on them.


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## High Desert Flipper

250's is not bad for 5/16" from a short draw. Not a world record by any means but not bad. For my short draw, I am very happy to get 7/16" over 220, 3/8" over 235, and 5/16 over 250. Any bands that do this are keepers for me.


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## High Desert Flipper

The Snipersling yellow bands gave it up today, broke right near the pouch. I was out of town for a few days with no shooting, so the yellow made it through five or six sessions. Not a record for longevity but not bad. All around really happy with the performance.


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## KawKan

I'm loving your data drops!
Especially since you include the draw weights. This really adds perspective in terms of shooting experience. The lighter ammo seems to produce small gains in speed for the draw weight penalty of wider bands. 
Thanks again for sharing this!



High Desert Flipper said:


> Here are some results for Snipersling yellow and black with some more traditional tapers. The yellow was speed tested on a hot afternoon, right around 100 degrees, and the black on a "cool" June desert morning in the mid 70's.
> 
> View attachment 350531


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## Sandstorm

High Desert Flipper said:


> The Snipersling yellow bands gave it up today, broke right near the pouch. I was out of town for a few days with no shooting, so the yellow made it through five or six sessions. Not a record for longevity but not bad. All around really happy with the performance.


It was because you weren’t using them man. They felt unloved! Lol just kidding. Yeah that’s not too bad. I think that’s about what I’ve been getting. Unless it’s windy and I get those weird side divots down the length of the band. I usually retire them at that point but I don’t count it towards for longevity because it was user caused. (Since I decided to see if I could play Devil Went Down To Georgia with my bands at full draw out there in the wind when I shouldn’t have been.) They hum pretty good sometimes.


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## Sporek

I wonder, how is it possible that Mark from ATO channel achieved 320fps using 0.5 Snipersling Black with 24-12 and his short draw while you're talking about speeds like 275fps or so. Hmmm...🤔


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## Kalevala

Sporek said:


> I wonder, how is it possible that Mark from ATO channel achieved 320fps using 0.5 Snipersling Black with 24-12 and his short draw while you're talking about speeds like 275fps or so. Hmmm...🤔


ATO uses maximum elongation, that those bands can give.


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## High Desert Flipper

Sporek said:


> I wonder, how is it possible that Mark from ATO channel achieved 320fps using 0.5 Snipersling Black with 24-12 and his short draw while you're talking about speeds like 275fps or so. Hmmm...🤔


There are three major factors that affect band performance. Taper, elongation factor, and draw length.

I haven't looked at his details, but I would bet on these three factors- elongation factor (he says he is shooting "max", I was under), taper (mine were 3:2, his are more aggressive 2:1), and draw length (he may be slightly longer, mine is pretty short at 29"). I can get all of these bands to put 5/16" near or slightly over 300 fps if I max out elongation. And while I haven't matched his 320 I'm betting a more aggressive taper and / or a few inches of draw length would get me there. 

Based on this, I believe his results are as real as they are impressive. 

For me, the 275-ish is a realistic representation of my typical setup that seeks to balance performance, draw comfort, and band longevity.

This is why when I look at latex I usually try to compare two or more with similar optimum elongation factors against each other to determine the relative performance. 

I also find it interesting to include draw weight- I have some tests where similar thickness bands shot 2% faster while pulling 25% harder- which begs the question how much is that extra 4-5 fps worth? 

I am confident the relative rankings between latex brands in my tests are good, while absolute results may vary between shooters depending on draw length, elongation factor, and taper used.


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## Kalevala

High Desert Flipper said:


> There are three major factors that affect band performance. Taper, elongation factor, and draw length.
> I also find it interesting to include draw weight- I have some tests where similar thickness bands shot 2% faster while pulling 25% harder- which begs the question how much is that extra 4-5 fps worth?


So true man 👍


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## Brewmaster

I am thoroughly sponging up the info you guys are putting up in this thread. THANKYOU! Being a newby to slinging and a nerd, I really appreciate the data, it is very helpful for dialing in your setup to your needs. 

On that note is there a data base on the form that we could contribute to? Maybe setup a templet of the info for the combination(s) people are testing. Then many people can contribute and we would have a nice accessible data base of info. I would be very happy to contribute. 

Just a thought. Cheers, Steve


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## High Desert Flipper

Thank you, and I am happy to contribute what I do. I have gotten far more out of this forum than I will ever give back so it is a no brainer to share some info when I get it.

As for a database of latex, tapers, results, etc.. that would be an awesome idea. I have pondered this but haven't thought of a good way to organize it since there are so many variables. It would be a spreadsheet many many pages deep or something like that. One idea might be to start an individual thread where people could put latex and band test results, maybe go back through the forum and copy old posts to the new thread or something like that. 

Right now it is all about searching the forum to see if you can find old posts with something close to what you are thinking about. And while the forum has a lot of strengths the search function is not one of them. It would be really cool to make all the info hear easier to find.


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## Brewmaster

So I was thinking about what data we should look at to best "tell the story" about the band testing. 
The following data seems to me to be the most helpful.
Band Data: Latex Brand, type, size.
Band Taper data: Wide width, narrow width, length and elongation %
Band Performance data: Velocity(FPS,M/s) with the Ammo info (size, mass), Impact Energy (lbf, joules), Band force at draw length (lb, kg)
Calculated Data: Band Efficiency - ie.-Velocity per force (FPS/lbf)

I was wondering if it would be of good to also look at how the Energy to Band force ratio is. This could be expressed as a percent. Thus the Impact Energy ÷ Band Force x 100. or ((lbf/lb)x100 = Impact Efficiency. This would take some of the ammo effects into the relationship. Just a thought not sure if it makes sense though.

Any thoughts?


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## High Desert Flipper

Brewmaster said:


> So I was thinking about what data we should look at to best "tell the story" about the band testing.
> The following data seems to me to be the most helpful.
> Band Data: Latex Brand, type, size.
> Band Taper data: Wide width, narrow width, length and elongation %
> Band Performance data: Velocity(FPS,M/s) with the Ammo info (size, mass), Impact Energy (lbf, joules), Band force at draw length (lb, kg)
> Calculated Data: Band Efficiency - ie.-Velocity per force (FPS/lbf)
> 
> I was wondering if it would be of good to also look at how the Energy to Band force ratio is. This could be expressed as a percent. Thus the Impact Energy ÷ Band Force x 100. or ((lbf/lb)x100 = Impact Efficiency. This would take some of the ammo effects into the relationship. Just a thought not sure if it makes sense though.
> 
> Any thoughts?



I think you are onto something here. Getting a "data sheet" for each latex brand would be pretty cool. It would take a bit of work to sort through past posts and there would be a lot of holes in the data, but it would be informative. I am not sure how to organize it.

Alternatively, somebody could start a new thread with an example of how to test and what data to collect and report. A thread like that might take off and self populate. From there anyone who wanted could search the thread for latex brand or whatever.

I also like the idea of calculating efficiency- I have done it a few times to compare bands by calculating things like fps per pound draw weight and looking at two different brands of latex with the same ammo. But I like your idea of energy out vs energy in- that would be a great objective measure to have for every latex.


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