# Tubes with thin walls..and what exactly is stacking?



## pult421 (Aug 13, 2015)

Tried these black rubber tubes from a local rubber shop that had a wall thckness of 1/32 maybe had a 5mm od. I had them looped with an active length of 6 inches. I was using 3/8steel and upon the first shot I had penetrated a steel can from maybe ten to twelve feet away.. still cant do that with my flat bands. Any thoughts??


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Tell us about your flats . Draw length , cut dimensions and material type .


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## pult421 (Aug 13, 2015)

well my flats are mainly latex. .30 cut to a draw length of 6.5 inches active. for an overall draw length of 32 inches. cut from 30 mm to 25 mm.


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## Viper010 (Apr 21, 2012)

Retie your flats to 5 1/2 - 6 inches active and notice a world of difference


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

If the elastic is pulled to 100% or 95% of it's capacity there is a world of difference in the velocity, much faster, compaired to 85% capacity, much slower, but the elastic breaks more often (shorter elastic life) if pulled to the max or almost to the max, than if you pull to 85% capacity. It's a trade off of velocity vs elasic life.

There are a lot here who prefer tubes, a lot who prefer flats. I've shot both but very limited on tubes I must confess. I can only buy surgical rubber tubes here which have a heavy draw weight and with standard ammo it's over kill and doesn't offer more velocity, for heavier ammo, yes, it's great of course. Dankung tubes seem to be the preference on this forum.

I've seen a video of Jorg's that has a slo mo of flats at release. They don't just contract in a straight line, no, they are very wavy and wrinkled (at least the TBG he used for the vid). This extremely wavy contraction, like 8 or 9 waves in the band at least, may have some effect on velocity (for the better), I don't really know...just adding this as a possiblity. I have not seen a slo mo vid of tubes contracting. If anyone can find these slo mo vids it would be interesting to compare flats with tubes contracting.

Some say tubes due to their morphology (shape and other things) can not contract as fast as a flat due to the air space in the inside of the tube whereas a solid such as a flat band has no air space. As to why air space would be a detriment on contraction I dunno, actually I don't think it would..the air expands to create a partial vaccuum inside the tube as the tube is stretched, and that partial vaccuum would aid in contraction it seems (since both ends of the tube are totally sealed off).

Many velocity tests have been done with tubes and flats but none have been done (that I can find anyway) that have equal pull of band and flat, equal percentage of draw capacity, equal draw length and equal ammo and equal pouch mass. All that equal stuff is hard to do with a given flat band set and a matching tube set...hence no real tests are available, at least I can't find any real scientific tests on youtube or here either.

I think it boils down to whatever works best for someone, that's the sweet spot. You all who live in venues where you can buy any sort of elastic you want, I envy you, to experiment endlessly with elastic and ammo combinations. Me, I'm happy just with TBG and Aliance Sterling big bands...it's all I have and really enough to give me much joy of shooting.

I'm in my shop today, right now taking a break from cutting, bending and welding black iron into a cold forged wrot iron project...it's going to take me maybe a month of doing, I work sort of meticulously and therefore slower than most black smiths, and put a lot of attention to detail on finishing...chipping and acid cleaning the slag off the welds, acid cleaning (phosphoric acid...aka rust remover) with Scotch Brite all the iron itself, grinding down the welds with a hand grinder (Makita rules), detergent wash to counteract any acid in the pores, then a rust eating primer (spray painter I have) then 2 coats of high quality enamel. I have to cut, bend and fit about 150 pieces of black iron...take a break occasionally to bang away on the keyboard and shoot a little too. Susi comes up to the shop with lime aid at least once in the morning and calls me for lunch. I have to work alone however so it takes a bit of time holding stuff while I weld, I use magnets too. My god daughter came ujp with a gallon of fresh milk from her cow a few minutes ago, had to go down to the house and put it on the stove for pasteurization and pay her ($2/gallon whole milk)


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

The problem I've found with both flats and tubes is the inconsistency. You can cut TBG same length and width, same pouch and they pull different and have different speed if there from different batches.Same thing with tubes. You can make two tube sets of 20/40 same length and pouch and they feel totally different if there from different batches of tube.


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## Viper010 (Apr 21, 2012)

Cjw said:


> The problem I've found with both flats and tubes is the inconsistency. You can cut TBG same length and width, same pouch and they pull different and have different speed if there from different batches.Same thing with tubes. You can make two tube sets of 20/40 same length and pouch and they feel totally different if there from different batches of tube.


What many people often seem to forget, is that natural latex, hence the name, is a natural product. 
What ends up as Theraband or Dankung tubes started out as tree sap. And no matter how many chemical processes you put the sap through to blend and standardise it as much as possible, it starts out as a natural product and will inevitably vary in quality.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh I realize that. Its frustrating when you make up a few band sets and they react different.


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## pult421 (Aug 13, 2015)

Viper ima try this when I get home. And chuck, your responses never cease to amaze me. Thanks for the responses guys.


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## fsa46 (Jul 8, 2012)

Cjw nailed it on the consistency. I just sent 4, 2050 tube sets to Roger to try out, two are looped and two are straight. I buy them from the same guy and have bought a lot from him.

The thing is, I buy the 2050 tubes in both red and black, however, there is such a significant difference between the two that you wouldn't believe it. I like both and will continue to by them and hope they don't change.

The black are a lot stiffer and harder to pull back. The red have a smoother draw but both are fast . When tying the red tubes I have to use a shorter active length to get the 5.5 elongation than I do with the black.

Roger is sold on the 1632 tubes and for good reason but it's going to be interesting to see what his take is on the difference between the red and black 2050 tubes.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

fsa46 said:


> Cjw nailed it on the consistency. I just sent 4, 2050 tube sets to Roger to try out, two are looped and two are straight. I buy them from the same guy and have bought a lot from him.
> 
> The thing is, I buy the 2050 tubes in both red and black, however, there is such a significant difference between the two that you wouldn't believe it. I like both and will continue to by them and hope they don't change.
> 
> ...


My black and amber tubes pull differently... About -7" static length with the black and -6.5" with the Amber .... Yes it makes a difference !

wll


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