# Tubes or flatband



## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

I have been running tests of my own about the strength and speed between theraband gold and dankung tubes after watching video's and listening to comments being made and simply cannot agree with, although I do not have a chrony I was not able to find any difference in speed although when theraband is fired their is a distinct sound but it is delayed because the bands are longer than the dankung making it seem faster.And on damage I fired five shots from each slingshot from a distance of 30 feet at a very thick detergent bottle using 9.5mm steel ammo, two shots fired from the 4 strand 1745*dankung split the bottle.I then turned the bottle around and fired five shots using 30mm tapered theraband gold doubled up so it also had four strands over the top and none split the bottle only dinted it.But I also find when shooting the Dankung if you just pull the bands back and take your time aiming the bands lose power.I have always used the push pull and flip style exaggerating the flip by using the arm not just the wrist this is a quick style of shooting but seems to get the maximum out of the Dankung.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

hawk2009 said:


> I have been running tests of my own about the strength and speed between theraband gold and dankung tubes after watching video's and listening to comments being made and simply cannot agree with, although I do not have a chrony I was not able to find any difference in speed although when theraband is fired their is a distinct sound but it is delayed because the bands are longer than the dankung making it seem faster.And on damage I fired five shots from each slingshot from a distance of 30 feet at a very thick detergent bottle using 9.5mm steel ammo, two shots fired from the 4 strand 1745*dankung split the bottle.I then turned the bottle around and fired five shots using 30mm tapered theraband gold doubled up so it also had four strands over the top and none split the bottle only dinted it.But I also find when shooting the Dankung if you just pull the bands back and take your time aiming the bands lose power.I have always used the push pull and flip style exaggerating the flip by using the arm not just the wrist this is a quick style of shooting but seems to get the maximum out of the Dankung.


I also have tested the theraband rave and have found theraband to be wowfully lacking. Perhaps they should be limited to xercise use for which that is the truest intent. I compared theragold to various flat bands for penetration of the bottom of science diet dog food cans at ten feet and theraband gold will provide a very good ricochet so wear your safety glasses. But, the flat bands banged on right through the can. Therabands do not last very long at all. Saunders is very good xcept for the plastic pouch and Tex bands are xcellent. Gary Flatbands flatbands should get to my house this week and I will give them the dog food can test which is THE TEST for the Ultimite Bands at least for me. I give thereaband at any color a Ten Thumbs Down. They are not worth the money or the ottles of time it takes to cut them and bind them just to have them be a failure for you. They will not help you shoot better they will only eat up your time. I threw mine in the can where they belonged. A full 10 thumbs down baby, 10 thumbs down.


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## njenkins (Feb 3, 2010)

Shooting my various dankungs and rubber setups against my Hunter with Theraband Golds and Tex's Express Bands leave no doubt; the flatband sets hit way harder then the tubes. I think that is evident in my Shootout video as well.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Theraband gold is in the bin as from now I certainly dont rate it,I definitely get more power and life from the Dankung tubes,


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Ive found a few layers of the thinner band are a lot faster than the gold, and a lot easyer on the arms when hunting and have to hold your elastic back for a clean shot, i have had the gold but changed, jeff


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

lol not sure if the first few posts are serious ?
Well , i just cant wait for jorge to get involved.
My medium power slingshots from Baumstamm are more powerfull than tubed slings , my Hunter and German walllnut are far more powerfull.
You should test your slingshots against plywood , the bottle test seems a bit ...


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

dgui said:


> I have been running tests of my own about the strength and speed between theraband gold and dankung tubes after watching video's and listening to comments being made and simply cannot agree with, although I do not have a chrony I was not able to find any difference in speed although when theraband is fired their is a distinct sound but it is delayed because the bands are longer than the dankung making it seem faster.And on damage I fired five shots from each slingshot from a distance of 30 feet at a very thick detergent bottle using 9.5mm steel ammo, two shots fired from the 4 strand 1745*dankung split the bottle.I then turned the bottle around and fired five shots using 30mm tapered theraband gold doubled up so it also had four strands over the top and none split the bottle only dinted it.But I also find when shooting the Dankung if you just pull the bands back and take your time aiming the bands lose power.I have always used the push pull and flip style exaggerating the flip by using the arm not just the wrist this is a quick style of shooting but seems to get the maximum out of the Dankung.


I
I also have tested the theraband rave and have founheraband to be wowfully lacking. Perhaps they should be limited to xercise use for which that is the truest intent. I compared theragold to various flat bands for penetration of the bottom of science diet dog food cans at ten feet and theraband gold will provide a very good ricochet so wear your safety glasses. But, the flat bands banged on right through the can. Therabands do not last very long at all. Saunders is very good xcept for the plastic pouch and Tex bands are xcellent. Gary Flatbands flatbands should get to my house this week and I will give them the dog food can test which is THE TEST for the Ultimite Bands at least for me. I give thereaband at any color a Ten Thumbs Down. They are not worth the money or the ottles of time it takes to cut them and bind them just to have them be a failure for you. They will not help you shoot better they will only eat up your time. I threw mine in the can where they belonged. A full 10 thumbs down baby, 10 thumbs down.
[/quote]
I suggest you buy a Fish hunter , that wont disappoint


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## stelug (Feb 6, 2010)

I have been testing some flatband too, but not thera ones. The best quality I was able to find on them since now is the elongation. Whent I drow flat rubbers it seems to me to hold a compound bow: some effort at the beginning and then the sensation of full controll bust still intact terrible power. Perfect with the butterfly style's shooting. Un fortunately nor of the stuff I tested (miscellaneous gyms pure latex bands) did last longly, with no relationship in numbers of layers and tapering. This is the main reason I whent back to tubing (on dankung I can change them on the fly). But I still miss the drawing smothness of flatbands.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Inquisitive said:


> lol not sure if the first few posts are serious ?
> Well , i just cant wait for jorge to get involved.
> My medium power slingshots from Baumstamm are more powerfull than tubed slings , my Hunter and German walllnut are far more powerfull.
> You should test your slingshots against plywood , the bottle test seems a bit ...


Thats your opinion and I have mine, it is very rare I use a hard target because of richochets, the bottle used is quite thick and very hard, hanging free and empty is much harder to penetrate than if it were filled with water standing against a wall and much harder than any hardboard used before, I have also used fencing wood and that also gets smashed very quickly.My first slingshot was a diablo pro the tubes supplied for that were not very powerful nor were others that I purchased for it although they were recommended for that slingshot,so having watched Jeorgs video's I decided to invest in theraband gold but was still not happy,so had a look on several different sites and decided on the Dankung and never looked back.Tubes that last can be changed in seconds very good power distance and accuracy.If you wish to send me one of your slingshots with flatband attatched I will certainly give it a go but I am not willing to spend good money on what I feel is going to be wasted.This again is only my opinion but I wanted to give you an Insight in to why I see it this way.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

I agree they can be changed quick , and last longer BUT they are not more powerfull than Thera bands.
I only have a small collection of Slingshots so Ii think Baumstamm would be better off giving you one , he has many great slingshots both with tubes and flatbands.
I think using plywood would better since it has an large even surface.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

It seems like I have said this before, but how about with music!! Flats in the morning, flats at the noon time, flats in the evening and ell night long. Flats in the winter, flats in the spring time, flats in the summer and all fall long. Flats on wire frames, flats on tree forks, flats on board cuts and all other forks. Of course now that is just my opinion and everybody has there own. -- Tex


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

I do like that very good were you ever a poet if not you should have been.


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## njenkins (Feb 3, 2010)

This is an interesting and very controversial debate. I say controversial because I see both sides of each argument. At this time I only have 2040 spare tubing to play with. I have noticed various stronger setups that Chinese shooters use are quite comparable to my flats.

I will be getting 4 more different types of tubing so I'll keep playing around and show ya what I come up with. I plan to do different tests comparing tube/flats it's an interesting topic and a lively one too boot.

I did run out and do a quick video comparing today. 



It's also on my blog. Watching the 44 Caliper SS is interesting, because clearly the Dankung looks to hit it harder. Now I've also done some other stuff different but I'll cover that in my blog..

I love em both, I use em both, but economically, the reason we are having this discussion is because tubing is more affordable and durable (longevity).


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Perhaps I missed something here. Comparing flat bands to tubular bands. Therabands are NOT flat bands so they cannot be compared due to its intended purpose for which it is to be used according to the manufacturer. I mean you can take two prophilactics and hook um up to a pouch and a set of prongs and you might rock and roll with some marbles but keep in mind its intended purpose which is a completely differing activity and both are fun but yet different activities. It is like using a spoon instead of a shovel to dig a hole for a fence post. But, if we compare tubes to flats then the flats by nature is simply more stable. I am by no means like the Master Sling Shootists that can draw on years of experience when giving an opinion and that being said my experience with tubes is that they do not produce consistant hits at least where the hit is desired. Flat bands do procduce consistant hits that is flat bands that are truly designed for slingshot usage. Now if you just want a slingshot to shot and you dont care about hitting anything and you like radical uncontrolable flying objects being hurled willy nilly then by all means use tubes. Tubes are powerful and they last but they are just not sutable for those who desire expertice. Oh yes and one more unsolicited opinion is to take teraband roll it up and put it in the trash can where it belongs also. Just one more point, thereaband and slingshots are diametrically opposed.


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## njenkins (Feb 3, 2010)

Interesting points dgui. I also do not think Theraband is the be all end all. I enjoy shooting it sometimes. But really that's about it. I do love my tubes and have to disagree. I think I'm equally as accurate with my tubes as I am my flats.


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## pelleteer (Dec 19, 2009)

dgui said:


> Now if you just want a slingshot to shot and you dont care about hitting anything and you like radical uncontrolable flying objects being hurled willy nilly then by all means use tubes. Tubes are powerful and they last but they are just not sutable for those who desire expertice.


That's a pretty broad statement about tubes. Are you speaking only of the Dankungs or tubes in general? I have no experience with Dankung tubes, but my various Trumarks and my Crosman Cyclone all shoot very accurately with tubes.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

dgui , i think you need to watch some of jorges videos.
thera band is great for Slingshots , tubes are good aswell.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

pelleteer said:


> Now if you just want a slingshot to shot and you dont care about hitting anything and you like radical uncontrolable flying objects being hurled willy nilly then by all means use tubes. Tubes are powerful and they last but they are just not sutable for those who desire expertice.


That's a pretty broad statement about tubes. Are you speaking only of the Dankungs or tubes in general? I have no experience with Dankung tubes, but my various Trumarks and my Crosman Cyclone all shoot very accurately with tubes.








[/quote]

Have tried all tubes typical american type and also the thin Dankung as I own two Chinease ss shooters and I put flat bands and they shoot stable with flats. Have observed all of Jorges videos and witnessed all of the powerful large diameter tube bands and the therabands and all seem to be close up shots and very impressive power demonstration. But, accuracy? If I can see someone shoot accurately consistantly with a theraband and the band does not blow apart within a few shots perhaps I will have a change in my opinion but I wont start using thereaband again. I even invested in a cutter so that I could cut perfect sections of theraband and I have multiple bands with various lengths to see what works and the conclution for me was that I was waisting time and money when I could instead buy reliable consistant flat bands that are already available and the key to good shooting is Practice and have fun with it instead of being on an endless quest. Tex be correct, Flats in the morning Flats in the evening and I like to include Flat titties and Flat behinds are good too. I love the Flats, all the Flats, give me Flats or give me death but, dont give me no tubes or therabands. Everyone has an opinion based on their experience and so is this one. Hope I have not offended anyone because that is not my intent.


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## crazyslingshot (Dec 25, 2009)

I think the power is not of elastic setup merely.
in my opinion,one have to take the steel ball and shooting style into consideration.
Some setup works very well with big steel ball such as 15mm diameter, but some other have more power(I mean initial velocity,not joule) with small stell ball such as 7,9,10 mm diameter.
For a skillful shooters, their shooting style also improve the power, at least the range.obviously.


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## baumstamm (Jan 16, 2010)

i shoot most generic thera band stuff. i like the performance and the speed. i hit with good accurately consistantly with a theraband and the band does not blow apart within a few shots. i make between 2 and 600 shots then i shorten it and make further 2 ore 3 hundret then shorten it to make another 50 ore 150 shots. my bands are easy to pull but i have 110cm rawlenght and my bands are abt 23 cm long. most i shoot 12mm steel but i am also able to kill a coconut with .45 lead. this isn´t realy weak! sometimes i try extrem bandsets like the one on the german walnut inquisitiv have, but i´ve done abt 100 shots with and don´t know how many he has done, but i think it is quite good. so a normal bandset last abt 500 ore more shots. but if u don´t get enough power from therra band maybe it is to long 4 your drawlenght.


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## pelleteer (Dec 19, 2009)

dgui said:


> Hope I have not offended anyone because that is not my intent.


No offense taken here, I'm just surprised at at your results with tubes. I guess we each find what works and what doesn't work for ourselves and each of us is different.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

Baumstamm , i have around 100 shots with the german , its very powerfull but im quite accurate with it.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

dgui said:


> Now if you just want a slingshot to shot and you dont care about hitting anything and you like radical uncontrolable flying objects being hurled willy nilly then by all means use tubes. Tubes are powerful and they last but they are just not sutable for those who desire expertice.


That's a pretty broad statement about tubes. Are you speaking only of the Dankungs or tubes in general? I have no experience with Dankung tubes, but my various Trumarks and my Crosman Cyclone all shoot very accurately with tubes.








[/quote]

Have tried all tubes typical american type and also the thin Dankung as I own two Chinease ss shooters and I put flat bands and they shoot stable with flats. Have observed all of Jorges videos and witnessed all of the powerful large diameter tube bands and the therabands and all seem to be close up shots and very impressive power demonstration. But, accuracy? If I can see someone shoot accurately consistantly with a theraband and the band does not blow apart within a few shots perhaps I will have a change in my opinion but I wont start using thereaband again. I even invested in a cutter so that I could cut perfect sections of theraband and I have multiple bands with various lengths to see what works and the conclution for me was that I was waisting time and money when I could instead buy reliable consistant flat bands that are already available and the key to good shooting is Practice and have fun with it instead of being on an endless quest. Tex be correct, Flats in the morning Flats in the evening and I like to include Flat titties and Flat behinds are good too. I love the Flats, all the Flats, give me Flats or give me death but, dont give me no tubes or therabands. Everyone has an opinion based on their experience and so is this one. Hope I have not offended anyone because that is not my intent.
[/quote]
Baummstamm has shot many times with thera band and it hasnt teared.
I even own a very powerfulll thera band sling which not only hasnt broken yet , but is also quite accurate.
i also have a Fish hunter , powerfull , accurate and quite long lasting.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

njenkins said:


> Interesting points dgui. I also do not think Theraband is the be all end all. I enjoy shooting it sometimes. But really that's about it. I do love my tubes and have to disagree. I think I'm equally as accurate with my tubes as I am my flats.


Ok, we like what we like. Even Steven.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Having watched many clips on how to measure my draw length the theraband was the correct length, and as for accuracy I dont mix and match slingshots as there is only one way to get excellent above average accuracy, and that is to practice with the same slingshot and same sized ammo over and over again using the same technique.So if you use flat or tubes it is the player not the band,The only difference I can assume from comments in the past is flats are easier to pull back and hold to take aim, whereas the chinese players I have seen shoot very quickly it is a style I myself am addicted to, and they are incredibly accurate and able to hit targets from great distances, they are also able to hit a small bearing with another from a distance of around 28 feet.I have to say I have not seen any western slingshot video's showing accuracy as extreme as this.but if their are any out there I would like to see them.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

Rufus hussey has amazing accuracy.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

hawk2009 said:


> Having watched many clips on how to measure my draw length the theraband was the correct length, and as for accuracy I dont mix and match slingshots as there is only one way to get excellent above average accuracy, and that is to practice with the same slingshot and same sized ammo over and over again using the same technique.So if you use flat or tubes it is the player not the band,The only difference I can assume from comments in the past is flats are easier to pull back and hold to take aim, whereas the chinese players I have seen shoot very quickly it is a style I myself am addicted to, and they are incredibly accurate and able to hit targets from great distances, they are also able to hit a small bearing with another from a distance of around 28 feet.I have to say I have not seen any western slingshot video's showing accuracy as extreme as this.but if their are any out there I would like to see them.


At the same drawweight , flatbands deliver more speed.
You can still achieve above average accuracy using different bands / ammo , i use thera tube and bands , shoot from marbles , stones , steel and lead.
My accuracy is fine with all ammo and band setups.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes Rufus Hussey of course I forgot about that one he was amazing are their anymore.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

No idea , i think Flatband and tex shooter may know , though.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

My limited experience with....

Thera band- Gold, 2 strips, 3/4 at fork to 1/2 at pouch x 9 1/2 to 10 inches long. good power but erratic longevity. I am very careful and precise when cutting. Most of the time decent longevity. like the smooth pull. No feelings of a tug at the end of the shot like with thera tubes.

Blue, 1 rolled/folded strip, 72mm at fork to 54mm at pouch(2 7/8 to 2 1/8), 9 1/2 to 10in long. Very much like the above but easier draw. So far my favorite. As good longevity as Golds above maybe longer. Smooth pull, no tug at the end.

Tan, purely worthless no matter what you do with it

thera tube- Green, one tube each side. Hated the hug tug at the end of the shot. When after using the thera band and no tug, the tug from the thera tube was wearing on my arm quickly. And I have been told i have popeye forearms. Harder draw than bands

yellow, double bands each side. Same as green above. Hate the tug.

Haven't tried the FLATS. What are flats? Is that gum rubber or what?


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

See my ad in the vender classified to see what flats are. Once you shoot them you will be hooked. -- Tex-shooter


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

First of all, don't mix up Thera Tubes and Thera Bands. The bands are the stuff you use to cut out flat bands. The tubes are nothing special, really.

I have done an enormous amount of tests with all kinds of bands.

First, the bandlife of flat bands really is not so poor, if the bands have been set up properly. A good flat band slingshot requires a very smooth frame and a clean attachment. If that is not the case, the bands will break really early.

Also, if you don't use a SHARP roll cutter and cut the stuff in one continous move, you will create small nicks and the bands will tear VERY early. From my conversation with people that tested flat bands and reported early tearing, THAT was the problem in 99% of all cases. So forget your scissors, forget sharp knifes - just buy a good roll cutter, steel ruler and cutting board. Believe me. Just do it.

A good set of properly made flat bands can easily survive hundreds of shots, as Baumstamm said, and it will always tear at the pouch so it can be shortened and used even longer.

Accuracy. I am not a target shooter, but I can hit a shoebox from 15 meters even with my strongest slingshots. That is about all accuracy I really need. But I could never detect any kind of difference in accuracy between tubes and flat bands. The accuracy is all in the shooter. Even bands that are shorter on one side (that would be poorly made) won't be non accurate.

If you look at slingshot tournaments, most of the shooters (and certainly the winners) use flat bands. Why? Because the draw weight is simply lower at the same power. You have to pull tubular bands harder to get the ball fly at the same speed. The harder the pull, the more you shake. Listen to Bill Herriman, he has done it all and seen it all.

A flat band set has to be of the right thickness, width and length just for your personal needs. That takes some experimentation. But one thing is crystal clear: The thinner the bands, the faster the shot.

I have done tons of comparisons using professional equipment (chronograph), and the superiority of flat bands is just a fact. My results are in line with ALL of the other serious tests I have seen so far.

A thinner band will tear earlier, so a compromise is called for. Fish has settled for the Theraband Gold, the thickest type, and the results are very good. He compensates the higher draw weight by using very small frames with low forks, shot "Chinese style", which makes the shot very controllable.

My preferred compromise is Thera Band Blue. The even thinner types aren't much faster, and my bands last quite long.

Just my 2 cents.

Jörg


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## Deimos (Dec 24, 2009)

As a target shooter, I can confirm Joerg's findings.
After alot of experimentation, I've found double thereaband silver, 2.5cm to 1.5cm @ 24 cm (82cm pull for target stance) suits me best








Takes the marbles 10 meters without significant drop, and more then decent speed to knock over a target.
I get about 700 shots out of them (sometimes more, sometimes less)
And better yet: I can replace the set with a spare, and continue on shooting without much adjustments.

I've tried to go to black, or gold again, and it just doesn't feel 'right'


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## baumstamm (Jan 16, 2010)

the right feeling is the important point!


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

In reply to Jeorg Bill Herriman is in no doubt a very good slingshot target shooter and everyone has their own style,Personnally I prefer the faster instinctive style of shooting,and you prefer the destructive power of using heavy ammo.What am I trying to say well Bill shoots in competitions and is trying to beat other enthusiasts and needs to make sure every hit counts so he needs this very smooth slow methodical approach, but here in Engalnd there are no competitions you are only competing with yourself and your slingshot, and my goals are different I prefer to shoot at very small targets very quickly and increasing the distance, I started out at 33 feet and this is a regular distance but I do enjoy increasing the distance to 48 feet and longer.And when walking the dog I shoot a few long distance.As for flats or tubes it will always be tubes and the Dankung my preference.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

Why do you prefer them ?


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Inquisitive said:


> Baumstamm , i have around 100 shots with the german , its very powerfull but im quite accurate with it.


Can you put some youtube video on shooting accuracy. Always intrigued with a good demonstration of accuracy. Sure would like to see Jorge do accuracy shooting. He always has the finest videos on slingshot unlike anyone else.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

dgui said:


> Baumstamm , i have around 100 shots with the german , its very powerfull but im quite accurate with it.


Can you put some youtube video on shooting accuracy. Always intrigued with a good demonstration of accuracy. Sure would like to see Jorge do accuracy shooting. He always has the finest videos on slingshot unlike anyone else.
[/quote]
I have no youtube account or camera.
Ask Baummstamm , he has youtube plus he can use the same bands as the one on my wallnut he gave me.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

I prefer these bands for several reasons first of all the fixed band attatchment and the way they are attatched, the length of the bands being short dont tangle you dont get handslaps either, and I have never had a fork hit.But one is no good without the other and this particular pocket size slingshot fits me like a glove and I cant fault it.


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

dgui said:


> Sure would like to see Jorge do accuracy shooting. He always has the finest videos on slingshot unlike anyone else.


You are in luck, my project for the upcoming weekend will be a "race gun" slingshot, with freely adjustable fork height, freely adjustable fork width, rotating handle with ball bearings, spirit level and fully adjustable sighting system. Most of the parts are here already, I hope the rest will arrive on time.

Of course in stainless steel.

I am no target shooter, but I will do my best to shoot accurately.

Jörg


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## stelug (Feb 6, 2010)

JoergS said:


> I am no target shooter, but I will do my best to shoot accurately.
> 
> Jörg


Having carefully and enthusiastically seen most of your's videos i can azard the correct definition should be a Panzer-Shooter







. Most of your's cattys seems to be able to put an elephant on his knees.friendly teasing


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Sure would like to see Jorge do accuracy shooting. He always has the finest videos on slingshot unlike anyone else.


You are in luck, my project for the upcoming weekend will be a "race gun" slingshot, with freely adjustable fork height, freely adjustable fork width, rotating handle with ball bearings, spirit level and fully adjustable sighting system. Most of the parts are here already, I hope the rest will arrive on time.

Of course in stainless steel.

I am no target shooter, but I will do my best to shoot accurately.

Jörg
[/quote]

Sounds like one sweet ride coming up, will be waiting for the latest adventure.


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## faca (Dec 24, 2009)

if you have the chance to compare flatband against tubes you´ll see flatbands are FASTERRRRR they are my option


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

faca said:


> if you have the chance to compare flatband against tubes you´ll see flatbands are FASTERRRRR they are my option


Oh yes even a slow flatband is faster than a tube in my pinion.


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## njenkins (Feb 3, 2010)

dgui said:


> if you have the chance to compare flatband against tubes you´ll see flatbands are FASTERRRRR they are my option


Oh yes even a slow flatband is faster than a tube in my pinion.
[/quote]

I gotta disagree. I have some tube setups that are faster than everything but Theraband Gold... Even that is close, won't know til I get my chrony.. Should be interesting.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

It depends what type of flats that you are shooting. Across my Chrony nothing is as fast as pure flat Latex. That is if you compare pull to pull. Tex


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

Yeah Latex should be the fastest followed by thera .
with the same draw weight , flatbands are faster than tubes.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

I really do hear you guys about flat bands being faster than tubes and I have given flat theraband gold another go with a narrower width this time still doubled up and I can agree that they are easier to pull making them feel smoother, but faster I am really struggling with this.I assume from forum talk that thera gold is quite thick and would need to use band alot thinner to gain speed.Going of track a little As a hobby I am mainly shooting at targets and my favourite ammo is 9.5mm steel because I feel it is mid range and capable of taking game if I wish to switch.But I would like to know from those who compete in competitions what ranges they shoot from and what ammo do you use.


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## Inquisitive (Jan 16, 2010)

hawk2009 said:


> I really do hear you guys about flat bands being faster than tubes and I have given flat theraband gold another go with a narrower width this time still doubled up and I can agree that they are easier to pull making them feel smoother, but faster I am really struggling with this.I assume from forum talk that thera gold is quite thick and would need to use band alot thinner to gain speed.Going of track a little As a hobby I am mainly shooting at targets and my favourite ammo is 9.5mm steel because I feel it is mid range and capable of taking game if I wish to switch.But I would like to know from those who compete in competitions what ranges they shoot from and what ammo do you use.


I think you need heavie ammo , the 9.5 is too light for my Hunter.
Try . 44 lead.


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## Redgrange7 (Mar 9, 2010)

I've used many different kinds of tubes and flats, but the tubes just can't compare. Flats are better in every way that I can imagine except for durability.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Even in durability when they are not tied at the pouch (like Saunders), shot over the top and the fork tips are real smooth. Tex


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

This "Race Gun" slingshot seems real interesting to me Bud! Sounds like it's right up my alley. Jack Koehler has a great Target Slingshot (The KIng Kat). It has all kinds of adjustments. At a tournament with all the different distances,it would be nice for the aimers among us to have different frame adjustments along with sight changing abilities,and draw extension features. Jack has put a lot of those capabilities in his Kat. I gotta see your interpretation of it Bud. Let the design come forth!!!!!







Flatband


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## dragonmaster (Dec 24, 2009)

Ive been thinking a lot bout this tubes and flats thing every forum Ive been to this has come up and one point that was brought up is that tubes compress the air in side when there pulled back and that this is a problem but if you got a setup like the BI-THOR and drilled a hole in the center of the pellet holding the tube this would let the air pass freely in the tube no compressed air


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Seems like you got some peeps that like tubes and some like um flat, and that not likely to change. I was stuck on tubes for years because thats all I saw available in the sporting goods. **** I thought tube rubber was the best or they just wouldnt put um on slingshots ifin it twernt no good. But once I got access to a laptop a whole new vista opened up for me, Flatbands. Yep, I cast that yoke of bondage off and got Flatbands. Tubes are good but they just dont have that feel you get with flatbands. I have even tried the small thin Chinease type and its missing something. Even if you drill a hole in the holding ball to let the air shoot out of the tubes I dont think it would have the linear power snap that flatbands release. As long as there is a choice between tubes and flats there will be differing pinions. I would like to see two pros go at it where one is using tubes and the other is a flatman. My money would be on flatman.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

I realize I am not as experienced in experimenting with everything there is for us regarding "stretchable material for slingshots" but with what I have tried between tubes and flatbands. I find it hard to imagine tubes equal to or better than flats. Maybe I am still not as knowledgeable but some things in physics are what they are and you can feel and evidence the difference. We don't even need knowledge or being educated this way or that, we can just tell by what happens and what feels the best.

A powerful touchstone would be to go to a tournament and see what is used most by good shooters, flats or tubes? I have not been to a tournament or know the ratio of flats to tubes used by the experienced shooters, but I am getting the sense that flats are what most all gravitate to. If this is true, most experienced shooters using flats, That is HUGE! If most lean towards one or the other that says volumes. Humans naturally will favor what naturally is the best in a given situation with repeated trial and error.

Therefore, you who have been around, what would you say, is being used most, from your exposure and experience, by those that are seasoned shooters? Flats or tubes?


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## Deimos (Dec 24, 2009)

Rayshot said:


> Therefore, you who have been around, what would you say, is being used most, from your exposure and experience, by those that are seasoned shooters? Flats or tubes?


Square elastic specifically made for slingshots o.o
2mm or 3mm thick, and cut to power width from 4 to 7mm
But these are PURE target shooters.

Not fast, not pretty, not easy to get.
But they've gotten 5000+ shots out of one set.

I've not been shooting for years, but ive talked for hours with people who did. (Generally, 15 to 22 years)


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

In answer to Rayshot I dont see how that is the answer because in america it seems most use flats in competition and from from china it seems tubes are very popular,having watched you tube video's slingshot slingshot game and slingshot master one uses small linked bands another uses tubes and the the other uses narrow flats,the only thing they all have in common, is they all use small compact slingshots not the monsters like those produced in the west.As for accuracy that lies with the shooter not the bands. These three people have shown their skills and are incredible shooters,In the west their has only been one video produced showing great skill and that was Rufus Hussey.lets see some video's of great skill instead of all this talk their is a tournament coming up in america shortly which Jeorg is attending so lets see some of this skill thats often talked about but never seen.


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## dragonmaster (Dec 24, 2009)

Like dgui all i shot was tubes becouse thats all there was and all I knew. In the last six months ive serched the net looking for the holy graiel dont think its real or it might be dont know but becouse of these great forums I have found flatbands now ive never shot true flats jist what ive cut from yoga straps and I like these have plans on buying flats from Tex and Flatband becouse I here alot of good remarks about bouth. Will i stop using tubs NO will I still use flats YES will I give up on slingshots becouse of topics like this well they can have my slingshot when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.


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## stelug (Feb 6, 2010)

reading so much about flatband I am convinced they are a must. But I still stick with multiple thin tubes like chinese 2040 8 strands set. 
Why? Main reason is the way I can manage the change of them at the need. I use to bring one dankung, and some spare tube set. Second, but rearly important reason, it is the last face slapp i got







I was shooting flats on a milbro with a sorta of spanish upper arrangement: leather loops thru the holes of the milbro and rubber attached to leather when one rubbes broke, as usually at the pouch. The milbro is so little that the center thumb holds is necessasry and when the rubber crashed I loosed the grip and the little aluminium bastard smashed my face (not too bad anywhay). With the dankung loop this is a very far risk


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

Sorry guys,

I didn't mean to get anyone rialed up. I am not taking sides necesssarily. Because each, tube or flat, has it's own aspect(s) that it is better in. Some thing(s) more some thing(s) less.

So far I like bands. Others will like tubes. And so the world goes round.

I am highly interested in trying the Dankung type tubes. Should have had some weeks ago. First time P.O. messed up on me, long story.

And as of yet I still haven't tried all there is in band or tube. I am still some what new as I said.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Rayshot said:


> I realize I am not as experienced in experimenting with everything there is for us regarding "stretchable material for slingshots" but with what I have tried between tubes and flatbands. I find it hard to imagine tubes equal to or better than flats. Maybe I am still not as knowledgeable but some things in physics are what they are and you can feel and evidence the difference. We don't even need knowledge or being educated this way or that, we can just tell by what happens and what feels the best.
> 
> A powerful touchstone would be to go to a tournament and see what is used most by good shooters, flats or tubes? I have not been to a tournament or know the ratio of flats to tubes used by the experienced shooters, but I am getting the sense that flats are what most all gravitate to. If this is true, most experienced shooters using flats, That is HUGE! If most lean towards one or the other that says volumes. Humans naturally will favor what naturally is the best in a given situation with repeated trial and error.
> 
> Therefore, you who have been around, what would you say, is being used most, from your exposure and experience, by those that are seasoned shooters? Flats or tubes?


If you have not had the opportunity to see Rufus The Carolina Slingshot Man on U Tube please do. He was able to hit a quarter in mid air and his slingshots were natural dogwood and gum rubber flatbands. He had gained enough popularity to be a guest on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Go ahead check out the Bean Shooter Man you wont be disappointed.

For me tubes are too radical but flatbands have a controlled feel to them. In a pinch I would use a tube but only after cutting it the long way.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

dgui said:


> I realize I am not as experienced in experimenting with everything there is for us regarding "stretchable material for slingshots" but with what I have tried between tubes and flatbands. I find it hard to imagine tubes equal to or better than flats. Maybe I am still not as knowledgeable but some things in physics are what they are and you can feel and evidence the difference. We don't even need knowledge or being educated this way or that, we can just tell by what happens and what feels the best.
> 
> A powerful touchstone would be to go to a tournament and see what is used most by good shooters, flats or tubes? I have not been to a tournament or know the ratio of flats to tubes used by the experienced shooters, but I am getting the sense that flats are what most all gravitate to. If this is true, most experienced shooters using flats, That is HUGE! If most lean towards one or the other that says volumes. Humans naturally will favor what naturally is the best in a given situation with repeated trial and error.
> 
> Therefore, you who have been around, what would you say, is being used most, from your exposure and experience, by those that are seasoned shooters? Flats or tubes?


Hey Dgui,

Yeah I got that video of Rufus in an email from some one of my friends and that is what peaked my interest in slingshots, and here I am. Enjoying this hobby/sport a lot. In fact I played and replayed that video to analyze the shooting technic. It really helped me to see that what I was beginning to develop was much of the way Rufus shoots. Also Jim Harris confirmed that a lot of shooters have similar aspects of technic using an instinctual style.

Thanks for the suggestion.
If you have not had the opportunity to see Rufus The Carolina Slingshot Man on U Tube please do. He was able to hit a quarter in mid air and his slingshots were natural dogwood and gum rubber flatbands. He had gained enough popularity to be a guest on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson. Go ahead check out the Bean Shooter Man you wont be disappointed.

For me tubes are too radical but flatbands have a controlled feel to them. In a pinch I would use a tube but only after cutting it the long way.
[/quote]


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

dragonmaster said:


> Like dgui all i shot was tubes becouse thats all there was and all I knew. In the last six months ive serched the net looking for the holy graiel dont think its real or it might be dont know but becouse of these great forums I have found flatbands now ive never shot true flats jist what ive cut from yoga straps and I like these have plans on buying flats from Tex and Flatband becouse I here alot of good remarks about bouth. Will i stop using tubs NO will I still use flats YES will I give up on slingshots becouse of topics like this well they can have my slingshot when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

hawk2009 said:


> Like dgui all i shot was tubes becouse thats all there was and all I knew. In the last six months ive serched the net looking for the holy graiel dont think its real or it might be dont know but becouse of these great forums I have found flatbands now ive never shot true flats jist what ive cut from yoga straps and I like these have plans on buying flats from Tex and Flatband becouse I here alot of good remarks about bouth. Will i stop using tubs NO will I still use flats YES will I give up on slingshots becouse of topics like this well they can have my slingshot when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/quote]

Getting your bands n pouches from Tex n Flatband are completely top notch stuff. Way better than any Crap your gonna get in a store. 
Sweet Mercy!


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

dgui said:


> Like dgui all i shot was tubes becouse thats all there was and all I knew. In the last six months ive serched the net looking for the holy graiel dont think its real or it might be dont know but becouse of these great forums I have found flatbands now ive never shot true flats jist what ive cut from yoga straps and I like these have plans on buying flats from Tex and Flatband becouse I here alot of good remarks about bouth. Will i stop using tubs NO will I still use flats YES will I give up on slingshots becouse of topics like this well they can have my slingshot when they pry it from my cold dead fingers.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


[/quote]Getting your bands n pouches from Tex n Flatband are completely top notch stuff. Way better than any Crap your gonna get in a store. Sweet Mercy!
[/quote]
I find the bigger bands for slingshots like the diablo pro not very powerful and dont last either, but the smaller thinner bands from the Dankung site are definitely alot stronger and last way longer (fact).This comment does not include the RR2's as I have never used them but would liked to have tried them I could never get hold of any, they were always out of stock.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm no expert at all, but I understood that what limits the velocity of contraction (besides mass) is the elastic's bunching up. Hence thin bands have room to expand sideways. That was why tubes are better than solid cores of the same diameter. The thinner the wall the faster. Thin tubes are like flat bands with no edge to fray. Loosely sheathed bungees are like flat bands because they can expand sideways easily, but are prone to fraying from repeated stretching.

I'm not weighing in about power, speed and such, having done no proper testing.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

ZDP-189 said:


> I'm no expert at all, but I understood that what limits the velocity of contraction (besides mass) is the elastic's bunching up. Hence thin bands have room to expand sideways. That was why tubes are better than solid cores of the same diameter. The thinner the wall the faster. Thin tubes are like flat bands with no edge to fray. Loosely sheathed bungees are like flat bands because they can expand sideways easily, but are prone to fraying from repeated stretching.I'm not weighing in about power, speed and such, having done no proper testing.Oh right thanks for that no one has ever explained it that way before you just kept hearing flats are faster than tubes.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Inquisitive said:


> dgui , i think you need to watch some of jorges videos.
> thera band is great for Slingshots , tubes are good aswell.


OK, I will pay closer attention instead of rejecting out of hand.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

hawk2009 said:


> I have been running tests of my own about the strength and speed between theraband gold and dankung tubes after watching video's and listening to comments being made and simply cannot agree with, although I do not have a chrony I was not able to find any difference in speed although when theraband is fired their is a distinct sound but it is delayed because the bands are longer than the dankung making it seem faster.And on damage I fired five shots from each slingshot from a distance of 30 feet at a very thick detergent bottle using 9.5mm steel ammo, two shots fired from the 4 strand 1745*dankung split the bottle.I then turned the bottle around and fired five shots using 30mm tapered theraband gold doubled up so it also had four strands over the top and none split the bottle only dinted it.But I also find when shooting the Dankung if you just pull the bands back and take your time aiming the bands lose power.I have always used the push pull and flip style exaggerating the flip by using the arm not just the wrist this is a quick style of shooting but seems to get the maximum out of the Dankung.


No offence mate but why on earth would you even bother trying to draw conclusions from unscientific tests like that?


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Sam said:


> I have been running tests of my own about the strength and speed between theraband gold and dankung tubes after watching video's and listening to comments being made and simply cannot agree with, although I do not have a chrony I was not able to find any difference in speed although when theraband is fired their is a distinct sound but it is delayed because the bands are longer than the dankung making it seem faster.And on damage I fired five shots from each slingshot from a distance of 30 feet at a very thick detergent bottle using 9.5mm steel ammo, two shots fired from the 4 strand 1745*dankung split the bottle.I then turned the bottle around and fired five shots using 30mm tapered theraband gold doubled up so it also had four strands over the top and none split the bottle only dinted it.But I also find when shooting the Dankung if you just pull the bands back and take your time aiming the bands lose power.I have always used the push pull and flip style exaggerating the flip by using the arm not just the wrist this is a quick style of shooting but seems to get the maximum out of the Dankung.


No offence mate but why on earth would you even bother trying to draw conclusions from unscientific tests like that?








[/quote]
Sam I just kept reading flats are stronger and faster in every way shape or form than tubes only recently did I receive a slingshot fitted with theraband gold doubled and tapered,so using 9.5mm steel decided to shoot my 4 strand dankung from the same distance of 33 feet and the gold was slightly faster I have no chrony but a good sense of timing. I then took them both down to the river and I was expecting gold to shoot further but it did not, no where near several shots were fired and the tubes shot further every time around 30 -40 feet further I also only got around 100 shots from the gold before it snapped,whearas I get well over a thousand shots from the tube then only one tube will snap (I use 4 strand fixed not looped tubing )and has to be replaced gold is also very expensive again the tubes are not.I dont think anyone will ever convince me flats are better than tubes as for unscientific im no scientist nor is anyone else on this forum.It is a comparison and the findings are my own it is my opinion thats all.


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Ive shot my 8 strand tubes with a 11mm ball, and it has went though a large sweet tin from 20yards, a double thera band gold didnt, and its not all about power, the only gold band ive owned that has never snapped on me is the ones off ZDP, and on the band front i like the black or blue, jeff


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes you told me about Zdp's flatband and how well it was lasting and I saw something on the forum not long ago that he posted is it still going strong Jeff.And your right power isn't everything without a skillful shot power means nothing, and if your that good a shot all that power is not needed anyway.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Hawk: if you were using 9mm steel with double tapered Therband Gold, you were using ammo that was way too light for the bands. Adding power to light ammo brings no advantage at a certain point. Also using too light ammo for the bands sharply reduces their life.

Sam: To me that test was scientific enough. How scientific do you want to get just to compare two band sets?


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> Hawk: if you were using 9mm steel with double tapered Therband Gold, you were using ammo that was way too light for the bands. Adding power to light ammo brings no advantage at a certain point. Also using too light ammo for the bands sharply reduces their life.
> 
> Sam: To me that test was scientific enough. How scientific do you want to get just to compare two band sets?


At least a chrony lol


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

My opinion if you ask me or not I tell u anyway.
I have tried 1745 tubing 2 times .One was a ready made slingshot the tubes lasted under 200 shots . Then recently I gave them one more choice and I made tube sets myself again they fail well under 200 shots. The power was there I liked it and the 4 strand draw weigh was allrigh too I believe less then thera gold 3-2cm tapered double.
About penetration power??? None could penetrate a beans can at 8 meters with 9.5mm balls .
I would like 1745 if they just would last longer for me. I like thera gold because they last 700 easy now and I can cut in any dimension I want.
Accuracy ?I dont understand why people say tube or flat band is more accourate when they should know its all down to the shooter and how well the set is made.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

True a lot is down to the shooter, but bench test show that there is a difference in slingshot design and bands when it comes to accuracy also. -- Tex


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

brooklyn00003 said:


> My opinion if you ask me or not I tell u anyway.I have tried 1745 tubing 2 times .One was a ready made slingshot the tubes lasted under 200 shots . Then recently I gave them one more choice and I made tube sets myself again they fail well under 200 shots. The power was there I liked it and the 4 strand draw weigh was allrigh too I believe less then thera gold 3-2cm tapered double.About penetration power??? None could penetrate a beans can at 8 meters with 9.5mm balls . I would like 1745 if they just would last longer for me. I like thera gold because they last 700 easy now and I can cut in any dimension I want. Accuracy ?I dont understand why people say tube or flat band is more accourate when they should know its all down to the shooter and how well the set is made.


I shoot bean cans quite alot of the time because they are the thickest you can find and I have no problem tearing them up using 9.5mm steel with 4 strand at 33 feet or 48 ft both distances I shoot at regularily, something must be wrong with your set up maybe the tubes are to long for you which would reduce the power as your not stretching them out.as for getting only two hundred shots before breaking I cant answer that but should last alot longer than that mine certainly do.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Dayhiker said:


> Hawk: if you were using 9mm steel with double tapered Therband Gold, you were using ammo that was way too light for the bands. Adding power to light ammo brings no advantage at a certain point. Also using too light ammo for the bands sharply reduces their life.Sam: To me that test was scientific enough. How scientific do you want to get just to compare two band sets?


many conversations have been held about tubes & flats and I have always disagreed with the results as you say here 9.5mm steel is to light for gold but put heavier ammo in the pouch and the result will be the opposite,I have read others say a six strand would be equal to gold but does it really matter,to much emphasis is about power I thought this forum was about sharing slingshot knowledge and showing what you have made but it always returns to must I say it power,And that is something many dont want their respective governments to latch onto as it could result in this fascinating hobby becoming a weapon and banned in some countries which you are all only to keen to avoid.Thanks to dayhiker I have learn't a little more I was not aware underweight ammo would result in a shorter life of the bands.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

brooklyn00003 said:


> My opinion if you ask me or not I tell u anyway.
> I have tried 1745 tubing 2 times .One was a ready made slingshot the tubes lasted under 200 shots . Then recently I gave them one more choice and I made tube sets myself again they fail well under 200 shots. The power was there I liked it and the 4 strand draw weigh was allrigh too I believe less then thera gold 3-2cm tapered double.
> About penetration power??? None could penetrate a beans can at 8 meters with 9.5mm balls .
> I would like 1745 if they just would last longer for me. I like thera gold because they last 700 easy now and I can cut in any dimension I want.
> Accuracy ?I dont understand why people say tube or flat band is more accourate when they should know its all down to the shooter and how well the set is made.


. . . hmmm. Extremely odd. I have only gotten two sets of gold theraband to last more than 200 shots. One set of doubles that I made myself lasted around 300 shots. And I have tried many sets. I cut my own mostly, but I have tried sets made by others, too. Tubes mostly last me 3 or 4 times as long as theraband. That's why I like tubes. No comparison where long life is concerned. And who cares about a little more power, anyway? If the bands have to be changed every day of shooting, it's a pain in the you-know-what. (If you ask me or not I tell you anyway.







)


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

shot in the foot said:


> Ive shot my 8 strand tubes with a 11mm ball, and it has went though a large sweet tin from 20yards, a double thera band gold didnt, and its not all about power, the only gold band ive owned that has never snapped on me is the ones off ZDP, and on the band front i like the black or blue, jeff


Why do you use these yellow tubes instead of the black tubes?


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## christopher (Jan 8, 2010)

Performance wise, I can defend my home and family from those wayward and feral gangs of attacking aluminum cans using either tubes or flats. Anything else I'm getting a gun. So performance isn't to much of a concern.

For me it comes down to the frame and fork. Whatever that may be, really dictates the type of band I can or should use.


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

dgui said:


> Ive shot my 8 strand tubes with a 11mm ball, and it has went though a large sweet tin from 20yards, a double thera band gold didnt, and its not all about power, the only gold band ive owned that has never snapped on me is the ones off ZDP, and on the band front i like the black or blue, jeff


Why do you use these yellow tubes instead of the black tubes?
[/quote]

Cos i like the colour ha ha, i find them just the same, jeff


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> My opinion if you ask me or not I tell u anyway.
> I have tried 1745 tubing 2 times .One was a ready made slingshot the tubes lasted under 200 shots . Then recently I gave them one more choice and I made tube sets myself again they fail well under 200 shots. The power was there I liked it and the 4 strand draw weigh was allrigh too I believe less then thera gold 3-2cm tapered double.
> About penetration power??? None could penetrate a beans can at 8 meters with 9.5mm balls .
> I would like 1745 if they just would last longer for me. I like thera gold because they last 700 easy now and I can cut in any dimension I want.
> Accuracy ?I dont understand why people say tube or flat band is more accourate when they should know its all down to the shooter and how well the set is made.


. . . hmmm. Extremely odd. I have only gotten two sets of gold theraband to last more than 200 shots. One set of doubles that I made myself lasted around 300 shots. And I have tried many sets. I cut my own mostly, but I have tried sets made by others, too. Tubes mostly last me 3 or 4 times as long as theraband. That's why I like tubes. No comparison where long life is concerned. And who cares about a little more power, anyway? If the bands have to be changed every day of shooting, it's a pain in the you-know-what. (If you ask me or not I tell you anyway.







)
[/quote]

I believe you they last 300. 
It took me several months before I got the bands to the right dimesnions to last this long.AS I see thera band and other flats are very sensitive to power and ball weight ratio. 
means you realy have to get it right to last long .Tubes as i see are not that sensitive to this. The tubes I tried two broke at fork connections and others at the pouch means they are sensitive to friction,Thera gold or either other flats never broke at the fork for me.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

i would go with bands all the way!


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