# Tripwire seller on ebay



## SteelBallViking

This person seems to have a lot of others designs, am I mistaken or is this the case?


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## fsimpson

i`ve bought several from him , the quality and price is good . shipping fast . up to a certain point a plywood slingshot

is a plywood slingshot . are you saying they are stealing ` intellectual property ` or what ?


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## wll

RatGod13 said:


> This person seems to have a lot of others designs, am I mistaken or is this the case?


I have a few of his slings and the quality is very good. Mine are ply and have double TBG attached (his classic shape, it is a big sling, just so you know). The slings are done well and mostly from templets that are available.

His prices are fair and his shipping is fast.

wll


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## M.J

He's clearly making money selling designs that other people shared for private (non-commercial) use.


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## honorary pie

Well, this seller does seem to sell at least a dozen designs are that exact copies of other craftsman's work, with no artistic liberties taken in the process, except poor materials (ie rambone currently on sale). Some copies include the shuttlecraft, target sniper, hdpe slingbow and some others I'm not as familiar with with.. Not sure if the seller is exactly infringing on intellectual property rights, but shameless salesmanship nonetheless.


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## Emitto

What MJ said is correct, hes is making money selling other peoples intellectual property, NOT COOL IN MY BOOK!

Cheers.

EG


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## honorary pie

Lynch mob anyone?


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## SteelBallViking

Just seeing what everyone thought, my wife ran across them.


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## honorary pie

Well you definitely 'ratted' him out!


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## M.J

He's actually a member in good standing on this forum. Hasn't posted in a while, though.


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## Nobodo

I really don't see how what tripwire sells on eBay is any more of 'copycat' work than a lot of the slingshots that are sold through this forum.

True, he makes the slingshots out of baltic birch and they are rather plain, but he is mostly selling them for very low prices.

Simple slingshots from baltic birch aren't any more a copy of somebody else's design than one made from exotic woods and sold here.

There really aren't that many designs that can be made for a slingshot; I'm always amazed to come to this forum and see somebody post a slingshot, give it a brand new name, yet when I look at it it might be made of some fancy woods but has the EXACT same shape as a dozen other slingshots made by a dozen makers.

Edit:

I just took a look at the slingshots that are currently up for voting for slingshot of the month.

Now they are all extremely nice slingshots, and I admire the craftsmanship that went into making them.

But...

it could be argued that 5 of them are the exact same slingshot, with very very slight variations. Sure they are made out of different materials, and have slight variations in shape, but they are no more varied from each others in style/shape than tripwire's slingshots are different from somebody else's slingshots.

Again, I'm not saying anything bad about any slingshot makers. But seriously it's rare to see a slingshot on this forum or anywhere else that is not almost exactly like one somebody else made previously. Prettier? Sure. More exotic combination of pieces? Sure. But if you were blindfolded and handed A and B it would be much harder to tell the difference.

Slightly different fork tips, adding or modifying a palm swell, exaggerating an existing nub where a finger goes, making it slightly larger or smaller, make it out of different materials -- things like these are really the only differences between most of the newly made slingshots and some existing one. Sometimes somebody will come up with a true innovation, but that's not usually the case.


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## lead__belly

M.J said:


> He's actually a member in good standing on this forum..


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## Nobodo

M.J said:


> He's actually a member in good standing on this forum. Hasn't posted in a while, though.


And he has actually in the past posted in this forum each of the models he is currently selling on eBay.


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## SteelBallViking

I was just curious if anyone had seen his work, honestly if ha us a member of the forum I may order a couple of his basic frames to customize. $27 for two frames is very economic for something to customize.

Edit: I actually found one that in a way gives a bit of credit, it does say Bill Hayes style but honestly its not that similar to the target sniper that its based off.


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## BAT

By the way, does any member has intellectual property rights over his work? can someone handle a copyrhigted design for a slingshot?


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## SteelBallViking

BAT said:


> By the way, does any member has intellectual property rights over his work? can someone handle a copyrhigted design for a slingshot?


I am pretty sure someone mentioned Bill Hays had copyright to some of his.


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## Henry the Hermit

One member has a patent on a method of construction.

I don't see where, as a matter of legality, this guy has broken any laws, but people who copy designs that have been posted for the personal use of others, and sell them without permission of the creator, are considered to be violating a long-time gentlemen's agreement that has existed on this forum since the beginning.


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## fsimpson

RatGod13 said:


> I was just curious if anyone had seen his work, honestly if ha us a member of the forum I may order a couple of his basic frames to customize. $27 for two frames is very economic for something to customize.
> 
> Edit: I actually found one that in a way gives a bit of credit, it does say Bill Hayes style but honestly its not that similar to the target sniper that its based off.


 before i got a little band saw , and started cutting my own wood , i got a `hammer head ` and `reaper ` unfinished frames ( which i don`t think resemble anyones work in particular )

from tripwire and thought they were high quality and real reasonably priced . just finish sand , seal, band , and shoot.

i don`t think he has ever claimed the designs of others as his --he calls a chalice shape a chalice etc. ----


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## wll

RatGod13 said:


> I was just curious if anyone had seen his work, honestly if ha us a member of the forum I may order a couple of his basic frames to customize. $27 for two frames is very economic for something to customize.
> 
> Edit: I actually found one that in a way gives a bit of credit, it does say Bill Hayes style but honestly its not that similar to the target sniper that its based off.


I have three slingshots of his and the quality is very, very good for the price paid, he makes a very good slingshot, that will last many, many years.

I don't know about the rest of his slingshot line, but the slings I purchased are as generic as generic gets, a basic classic shape that I have seen since I was a kid, and built as well as any commercial wood sling I have seen.

No, they are not fancy, they are tough user slings, nothing more, nothing less.

wll


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## quarterinmynose

How is it respecting someone else's creations is such a difficult concept?

No, many(not all) of the frames for sale are not just vaguely similar to other generic Y shapes. They are exact copies that I am quite sure came directly from templates posted on this very forum with the understanding that they were being provided for personal use, not easy monetary gain. Even the names He gives the frames are direct references to the original frames names. I can go through and point out several frames he has for sale that were created by other people, what the actual name is, and who actually created it without so much as having to squint while thinking about it.....but no no it's not 'copycat' at all. 

I believe that anyone who has attempted to create a design of their own can appreciate how much every detail, every slight variation in shape or size can have an impact on the ergonomics and the aesthetic of the final product. It's only natural that people might get a little touchy about someone taking the work and consideration put into a design and turning a quick buck by selling cheap reproductions. Maybe the quality is great for the price, but how about having a little respect for the creative souls who actually put the work in on these designs.

The point is that selling someone else's design is such an offense because it can actually take a lot of thought, time, and trial to create something good.

Most people don't care if you want to make one like theirs for fun, or to hone your skills, but give credit where credit is due and leave any money making potential up to the discretion of the actual creator. I have never seen a serious stink raised due to vague similarities.....yes we play with Y shaped objects and some overlap is bound to occur.


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## Nobodo

quarterinmynose said:


> They are exact copies that I am quite sure came directly from templates posted on this very forum with the understanding that they were being provided for personal use, not easy monetary gain.


I definitely see that some of the slingshots that tripwire sells came from templates that are available on this forum and other slingshot forums. The ones that are exact copies of templates, he has given the original name to. It seems to me that giving the original name to the slingshot is paying homage to the creator of the template. I also see a couple that are similar to existing templates, but tripwire has made a number of changes, and he gave those names similar to the template. Doesn't that also pay homage to the originator of the template, even though that homage should not be necessary since the template was changed? I also see a number of them that are either tripwire's design or dissimilar enough to other slingshots or templates that I cannot say they are copies of those.

However...

Looking through the extremely ambiguous rules for this website I do not see anything about selling slingshots made from templates. Looking in the templates section itself, there is no notice at all that templates are only provided for personal use, and it would be considered a crime against humanity to make a slingshot from one of those templates and sell it. Looking through the "For sale by individuals" section of this website, there are many, many slingshots sold that are made from these same templates and I don't see anybody raising a stink in this website about that. Looking at the postings of the individual templates that are posted on this website and on other slingshot websites, very rarely do I see that the maker is requesting that no copies be made and sold of those slingshots. In fact one of the only claims similar to that I see is one slingshot made by bunsaglazing that asks that no animals be shot by slingshots made from his template.



quarterinmynose said:


> I believe that anyone who has attempted to create a design of their own can appreciate how much every detail, every slight variation in shape or size can have an impact on the ergonomics and the aesthetic of the final product.


How do you define "create a design of their own"? Every slingshot maker starts with a basic design that somebody else came up with. How much do you have to tweak what somebody else made before it is your own design? How do you design ergonomics to fit everybody's hand, or is it really ergonomics to fit one particular hand? How much do you need to change somebody else's design before you no longer need to give credit to that individual? How much do you need to change somebody else's design before it's morally right to name it and say it is your design? Is it ok to make a slingshot that is EXACTLY the same as one somebody else made except maybe for something truly insignificant like depth of palm swell or types of wood used, and then give it your own name and claim it as your design and proudly take praise for what you made?

Many of the templates are extremely similar. At least a couple of the templates even state on them that no slingshot has ever been made from the template but instead it is just a "think it might work". One of the templates even has a huge assortment of different fork sizes, handle sizes, etc. and says it is a template for "making any slingshot".

I see a ton of slingshots on this website that are practically duplicates of each other, yet each has a new name because it is made out of some slightly different wood or has some slight change to band attachment or some other really minor change like that. I don't hear anybody complaining about that, but what is the difference?

It sounds like to some people posting a template in this forum is a claim to authorship instead of a way to share a design with others. Instead of a way to provide for people to make a slingshot it is a way to say "this is my slingshot design and because I posted a template then from now to eternity anybody that makes a slingshot sufficiently similar to mine is making my slingshot".

When you look at the majority of the templates on this and other slingshot websites, most of the templates are little better than outlines. Duuh, guess what, those same outlines can be made from the pictures provided of the slingshot, so why bother providing the template unless you want to claim ownership?

Here's a thought -- if you provide a template of a slingshot, you are putting it in the public domain. If it's put in the public domain then it's fine for anybody to do anything they want with the template; mass produce them if they want or whatever they heck they want. They are in the public domain so do what you want. Is it nice to give recognition to the originator of the template? Sure, that is nice, but it isn't a crime not to. Is the owner of the template the person with the rights to the 'intellectual property'? Probably not; the template is probably nothing more than some little tiny tweak on an existing design but then the person decided to publish a template so now suddenly any slingshot that looks like that one is a copy.

There's one person with an actual patent on a way to make a slingshot. Was he the first to make a slingshot that way? I don't know, but really I doubt it because it is such an obvious way to make a slingshot that I think it's likely people were making it that way before the patent holder. Ok, so what does the patent mean? Nobody else in the U.S. can legally make slingshots that way. Ok, so people in Europe and other places make slingshots that would violate that patent and post them in this forum, and nobody complains. People in Europe and other places make slingshots that would violate the patent, sell them, and a couple of vocal people here in this forum say it is outrageous. I often see U.S. slingshot makers that violate the patent, post the slingshot in this forum, and nobody complains. It seems to only matter whether it is in this forum or outside this forum. And that is an actual patent, not a template that has essentially been made available as public domain. Violate the patent, ehh, who cares, unless you try to sell it outside this forum? Copy an existing slingshot, template or not, and sell it on this forum? Ehh, who cares? Copy an existing slingshot or template, make it out of some different wood, give it a different name, post it on this forum and you have a slingshot of the month. Copy an existing slingshot or template and sell it on eBay, now suddenly the person is a criminal and needs a mob to convict him in absentia.


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## quarterinmynose

I'm not even going into this any further...not worth it. You have made up your mind, so be it.

Rules and laws are not the end all guidance to how we should conduct ourselves.

All I'm seeing is an affinity for cheap knock offs, a lack of appreciation for subtle yet significant differences, and a lack of respect for creativity and skill.


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## Nobodo

quarterinmynose said:


> I'm not even going into this any further...not worth it. You have made up your mind, so be it.
> 
> Rules and laws are not the end all guidance to how we should conduct ourselves.
> 
> All I'm seeing is an affinity for cheap knock offs, a lack of appreciation for subtle yet significant differences, and a lack of respect for creativity and skill.


I see the 'closed minds' completely the opposite way.

This thread started as a bashing of somebody who sells products outside this forum, and I see it differently than those who are throwing the stones.

Subtle changes can be significant, definitely, but they are still subtle changes and not new designs.

Thanks,

Mark.


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## SteelBallViking

Nobodo said:


> quarterinmynose said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not even going into this any further...not worth it. You have made up your mind, so be it.
> 
> Rules and laws are not the end all guidance to how we should conduct ourselves.
> 
> All I'm seeing is an affinity for cheap knock offs, a lack of appreciation for subtle yet significant differences, and a lack of respect for creativity and skill.
> 
> 
> 
> I see the 'closed minds' completely the opposite way.
> This thread started as a bashing of somebody who sells products outside this forum, and I see it differently than those who are throwing the stones.
> 
> Subtle changes can be significant, definitely, but they are still subtle changes and not new designs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark.
Click to expand...

No the thread was simply asking if his designs were original or were they originally offered by others, I was looking for the community's opinions on both his quality and morality of selling designs off the forum.


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## Nobodo

RatGod13 said:


> Nobodo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> quarterinmynose said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not even going into this any further...not worth it. You have made up your mind, so be it.
> 
> Rules and laws are not the end all guidance to how we should conduct ourselves.
> 
> All I'm seeing is an affinity for cheap knock offs, a lack of appreciation for subtle yet significant differences, and a lack of respect for creativity and skill.
> 
> 
> 
> I see the 'closed minds' completely the opposite way.
> This thread started as a bashing of somebody who sells products outside this forum, and I see it differently than those who are throwing the stones.
> 
> Subtle changes can be significant, definitely, but they are still subtle changes and not new designs.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> No the thread was simply asking if his designs were original or were they originally offered by others, I was looking for the community's opinions on both his quality and morality of selling designs off the forum.
Click to expand...

Yeah, you're right. There have been a few times in the past also when people have asked about slingshots made by tripwire, bikermike, and a couple of others and it always turns into a slamfest like they are evil people needing to be lynched because they dared to take templates and make slingshots and sell them someplace other than in this forum. It gets under my skin, sorry.


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## SteelBallViking

Oh its no issue I'm not one to bash people I just was curious how the forum members view this all. (to be honest this forum is a big part if my life) I mean if they are just going to be viewed as a "cheap knockoff", I guess you could say in every industry you have clones and knockoff products. I guess in one way once someone spends the time reproduce a design it means you have a great design. Also I see where it can be viewed as a disrespect, personally I own originals of Bill (target sniper) and Nathan (torque,peerless,scout) and they are my prized frames just because who made them so it does matter who they came from in my opinion. On the other hand I'm making a small target sniper for my daughter to learn on when time comes (she is 1 now).


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## Susi

Take my template for example. I ENCOURAGE copies. I have no qualms about people copying my stuff and would feel pleased if they did. My ego factor in this is massaged by how many downloads of my template exist, not the reverse...and useage of that template.

If a design is sold that is copyrighted without consent of the copyright owner, that's not only unethical, it's technically illegal. However I got from this forum, maybe incorrectly, that a design shared was just that, shared and shared automatically. "Thanks for sharing" is a common comment from the peanut gallery.

Now, personally, if I ever were to market slingshots, a highly unlikely thing, about as possible as getting struck by a meteor, I would of course set up a commission per item deal with the originator IF the design was close enough to the posted image AND give credit, "Design inspired by ---- ". Generics of course are free territory just as tree forks are. But that's just my ethics and ego stew pot here.

I might add on edit here that Nathan offered to make a deal with me for any designs I came up with. I told Nathan he could use whatevfer he wanted for free essentially but the point is, scrupulous folks like Nathan's Simple Shot business web site, a seller on this forum too, and others DO ask before producing for sales, setting a good example for sales based on or heavily influenced by others' designs.

2nd edit. If a template or design is not labeled "copyright" then to me it's legal fair game to copy and sell on whatever platform that exits, ebay, SSF or whatever. But also I think that courtesy applies to common sense as well to "get with the originator" to make sure all is cool, ethically. There is a difference in ethics and legalities. All that is legal isn't necessarily ethical.

My view is let the poor guy make money and leave him alone. Have the template originators complained or is this just a bunch of bored guys finding something to gripe about? I don't read any complaints from originators here...pardon if I am incorrect. Where's the beef?

Cutting up potatos for Susi's seafood chowder for lunch...have a nice weekend all.

Chuck


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## Henry the Hermit

I suppose to a newcomer, this may seem like a new topic and maybe even no big deal, but discussions about copying and selling others' designs go back for years. The Forum long ago agreed that copying and selling others' design without permission of the originator is not acceptable. Basically, I and a lot of the old timers feel you don't need rules to enforce good behavior. Gentlemen don't need them and those who don't respect them won't pay any attention to the rules anyway.

I predict this is not the last time we will have this discussion. Unscrupulous makers will continue to copy, some will continue to condemn them, and some will wonder what all the fuss is about. It's the latter that bother me the most.


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## Nobodo

But why is it dishonest and unscrupulous if it takes place outside this forum, but fine and ethical if it is inside this forum? That was my whole point.

This forum has only been around for 6 years, it's not like it is the holy grail of what is ethical and what is not.

If something is unethical, it is unethical whether done inside this forum or outside this forum.

Please cite an example of a particular slingshot that tripwire makes and why it is unethical for him to make it, but please ensure first that the same slingshot has not been offered for sale in this forum by somebody who is not the alleged ethical owner of the property. A person is being condemned in this thread, and I'd like to see some actual justification of that.


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## Cjw

Some of the makers and venders have given templates of their designs for slingshot forum members to make for their own use. Not to sell on E-Bay for profit.


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## Henry the Hermit

Nobodo, we had a recent episode of a maker outside the US advertising a knock off of a member's design. The membership, including me, objected and the offending posts were removed. So your assertion that the Forum tolerates copying is incorrect.

Would you feel better about it if we had a constant feces-flinging Topic on copying?

The subject comes up from time to time, and we generally have a more or less civil discussion about copying. Most of the "copies" you see here are one offs and usually made with the permission of the design creator for individual use. I can assure you that when a blatant rip-off is made and offered for sale here without the permission of the creator, one or the other of the mods will take action.


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## Nobodo

Cjw said:


> Some of the makers and venders have given templates of their designs for slingshot forum members to make for their own use. Not to sell on E-Bay for profit.


Do they state that in the posting of the template?

Nowhere on this forum or on other slingshot forums where these same templates reside does it state that unless the creator of the template says so, no templates are to be used to create a slingshot to sell unless it is sold on the same forum.

Doesn't that leave it up to the discretion of the person posting the template? If the template posting says "to make a slingshot using this template you must go to my facebook page and like my profile picture" then I guess that is a prerequisite. If the template posting says "you can make as many slingshots from this template as you want, but do not offer them for sale" then that pretty much states the template owner's desire. If the template posting just says something like "have fun with this template" then what exactly is wrong with somebody using the template to make slingshots and sell them?


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## Nobodo

Henry in Panama said:


> Would you feel better about it if we had a constant feces-flinging Topic on copying?


Henry, some of the things you say make no sense whatsoever. This thread started with a forum member asking about another forum member who makes slingshots and sells them. Immediately that forum member was trashed by multiple people, including a forum moderator. I came to the forum member's defense, and you are accusing me of trying to do constant feces-flinging?



> Post deletion: There are many reasons your post might be deleted, but here are some of the most common ones. Spamming of any type, be it human or robot-generated, is always deleted. Trolling is also unacceptable -- we recognize that a lot of you trolls don't even realize that you're trolls, but believe us -- you are. We'll delete your posts if we feel they're disruptive or annoying. We also delete posts that are racist, sexist, overly obscene, or offensive in any way. *We delete comments which are personal attacks -- whether directed at a moderator or another member*. Finally, we reserve the right to delete any post at our discretion.


The above is a quote from the rules for this forum.

Now the majority of what is quoted is extremely ambiguous, and forum moderators use that ambiguity at their discretion quite frequently.

But the portion that I bolded and underlined is not ambiguous.

In this thread forum members, including a moderator, are personally attacking another forum member, and not even providing one bit of evidence that the one being attacked has done anything wrong at all.


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## Cjw

If you don't know the reason than I can't help you. Should be self explanatory . Don't believe I've seen any makers say hey make as many as you want and sell them for profit no problem. We use to call it common decency. But a lot of that is lacking today.


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## Henry the Hermit

Don't waste you time, Nobodo. I am very familiar with your debate tactic. Distort what others say, and try to change the subject. I did not accuse you of anything.

If you have a complaint, or feel that someone has been personally attacked, file a report. So far, the only one I see here taking personal shots is you.


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## SteelBallViking

Well gentlemen I'm out of this, I was simply asking for the general consensus among the forum on if this was accepted. I have learned a few things in result, he has people who both support and condemn him. I also have found the those who support him find his work of a good quality. Thank you for the feedback everyone.


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## Nobodo

Henry in Panama said:


> Don't waste you time, Nobodo. I am very familiar with your debate tactic. Distort what others say, and try to change the subject. I did not accuse you of anything.
> 
> If you have a complaint, or feel that someone has been personally attacked, file a report. So far, the only one I see here taking personal shots is you.


Please explain where I have taken a personal shot at anybody, have distorted anything, or have tried to change the subject.

The subject is a forum member who sells slingshots and has been personally attacked on the first page of this thread, with that attack starting from a forum moderator.

It seems that a few people have decided for the entire internet that a template that is freely downloadable from the internet, and states nothing at all about how that template may or may not be used, can only be used for purposes that the person downloading the template might have no idea are the actual restrictions.

Why does the templates area not simply state, "Unless otherwise noted, none of the templates downloadable from here can be considered public domain and cannot be used for profit". How hard is it for an area of a forum to make a statement like that? There are templates for thousands of things all over the internet, and the assumption is you can use them for anything you darn well please unless something states otherwise. If this is indeed a topic that comes up often and there has been some kind of general consesus about the ethical use of the templates, how hard is it to simply put a statement up in the templates area? I am making my own slingshots and they are not the same as any templates downloadable from here or from other forums, and I'll probably end up posting templates for one or more of those slingshots. As far as I'm concerned when I post a template of a slingshot I can EXPECT that people are going to use it however they see fit. To expect anything else is not really sensible.

If you make some slingshot that you feel extra special about ownership of and would get all butthurt if somebody makes one without your explicit permission, then don't post a template for it that doesn't say anything on the template about what those downloading it can or cannot do with it.


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## Nobodo

M.J said:


> He's clearly making money selling designs that other people shared for private (non-commercial) use.


Since this was the comment that started this thread going downhill, can you please share an example of a design that is somewhere designated for private (non-commercial) use that tripwire is using that you know he has no permission to use?


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## Henry the Hermit

Nobodo said:


> Please explain where I have taken a personal shot at anybody, have distorted anything, or have tried to change the subject.


This is a direct quote from a previous post of yours.

"I came to the forum member's defense, and *you are accusing me of trying to do constant feces-flinging*?

I did not accuse you of anything, so in this one sentence you distorted what I posted and attacked my integrity by asserting that I did something which I clearly did not do. This is pretty much what you did in other posts on this thread; you distorted what others posted and accused them of making personal attacks when none were made. Now, if you want to continue this, take it to PM.


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## Cjw

I belong to more than one shooting club and have helped members with rifle stands I have designed. I would hope they would have the ethics to not take my design and make and sell them for profit. Maybe that's too much to ask with today's mentality .


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## Nobodo

Henry in Panama said:


> Nobodo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please explain where I have taken a personal shot at anybody, have distorted anything, or have tried to change the subject.
> 
> 
> 
> This is a direct quote from a previous post of yours.
> 
> "I came to the forum member's defense, and *you are accusing me of trying to do constant feces-flinging*?
> 
> I did not accuse you of anything, so in this one sentence you distorted what I posted and attacked my integrity by asserting that I did something which I clearly did not do. This is pretty much what you did in other posts on this thread; you distorted what others posted and accused them of making personal attacks when none were made. Now, if you want to continue this, take it to PM.
Click to expand...

Whoa, let's step back here a second.



Henry in Panama said:


> Would you feel better about it if we had a constant feces-flinging Topic on copying?


Henry,

You know as well as I do that I was answering this question from you to me.

I read that as a direct accusation that I would prefer constant feces-flinging, and I do not see how your statement could be read any other way.

If anybody is trying to twist things around here it is you, Henry.


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## Nobodo

Cjw said:


> I belong to more than one shooting club and have helped members with rifle stands I have designed. I would hope they would have the ethics to not take my design and make and sell them for profit. Maybe that's too much to ask with today's mentality .


I would expect the same thing. However, if I publicly posted a template on how to make this stand and stated nothing about how the template could be used, I would certainly not get upset if somebody started making them for profit. Heck, I'd be honored. Why get upset, when you could have done the same thing?

Seriously, if you can show me one thing that tripwire is making that is a direct copy of a template, and that template is marked for non-commercial use only and you have knowledge that tripwire does not have permission, please do.


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## Nobodo

Alright, I am posting no more here; this is only getting me upset and serving no purpose.


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## Henry the Hermit

Yes, this has definitely gone off the deep end.


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