# Full Butterfly or Only Half?



## Deadeye Dick (Aug 31, 2015)

Hello, I have a question I would like to ask other hunters to get their opinion on the topic of: is pulling full butterfly essential for hunting? I have taken quite a few doves with a half butterfly type style (similar to Gamekeeper John) and a full butterfly type style (similar to Bill Hays) and looking at the damage inflicted by both styles, couldn't really tell any major difference in killing power. Now it's obviously true that pulling full butterfly should produce more speed and energy but is it necessary? For the game that i'm hunting currently (doves) it doesn't take much to kill them so a half butterfly type style is fine but with bigger game like rabbits and squirrels, would a half butterfly pull work? It's just quite confusing because you see guys like Chris Graffin, Gamekeeper John and many other English shooters taking game with short pulls and light ammo. So to sum all this up is a full butterfly pull needed to kill game or will a half butterfly type pull (anchoring on the face somewhere) get the job done? Thanks for any responses.

:wave:


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Archery length draw will kill game. Longer draw should result in more velocity and momentum though. Shot placement is where its at - with adequate shot and enough power.


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

You definitely do not need to pull butterfly or even half butterfly to hunt.


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## gabeb (Jan 1, 2016)

I pull a little less than half but i vary my draw depending or species encountered and range. Definitely do not need to shoot full butterfly to take game.... I've never killed a squirrel full butterfly but plenty at half

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## Deadeye Dick (Aug 31, 2015)

Okay, thanks all for the helpful comments.


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## nmcoyote (Mar 14, 2013)

I have never had a problem with an archery style anchor point. (What I think you mean by "half butterfly".) That said there are many other variables involved including band type and ammo type, length of bands and, most importantly, accuracy of shot placement. My personal experience is that the efficiency and cleaness of the kill in hunting is most dependent on getting the proper target placement with velocity and projectile weight close behind.

For me, I can't hit the broad-side of a moose with butterfly style. With my normal style, I hit what I aim at. I mostly hunt rabbits and have not had problems with effectiveness of the weapon.

Coyote Ron


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## gabeb (Jan 1, 2016)

nmcoyote said:


> I have never had a problem with an archery style anchor point. (What I think you mean by "half butterfly".) That said there are many other variables involved including band type and ammo type, length of bands and, most importantly, accuracy of shot placement. My personal experience is that the efficiency and cleaness of the kill in hunting is most dependent on getting the proper target placement with velocity and projectile weight close behind.
> 
> For me, I can't hit the broad-side of a moose with butterfly style. With my normal style, I hit what I aim at. I mostly hunt rabbits and have not had problems with effectiveness of the weapon.
> 
> Coyote Ron


You must realize that you can kill a rabbit by scaring it, throwing a baseball, and with 4 psi on point of impact on the head


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## romanljc (May 26, 2014)

For me no butterfly or half I just draw to my face corner of lip if I want to kill something like a rabbit I would use lead or 7/16 and up steel practice with that first 
I prefer to use a archers type stance .
I happen to be more accurate with larger ammo anyway .


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## Tremoside (Jul 17, 2013)

Hi Deadeye,

Butterfly

Gives longer acceleration path, but needs more space and practice. Needs a good wrist. If you're not a trained person (strength of back, forearm, grip, straight arm stability) you can handle only lower draw forces accurately. In my experience it's pretty sensitive of the weather condition. If the rubber is cool it's not so fun  Strong wind plays with the bands as well.

Half-Butterfly

It's BEHIND head and not anchored at the mouth. Still a relatively long acceleration path, but less stress on wrist. A good to go choice if you want to quickly and accurately shoot. It may be practiced as a fluent movement. Often "instinctive".

Anchored

Shorter draw, but the forearm is in line with the rubber. This means higher draw force may be achieved without stressing the pouch side wrist. The face anchor can reduce tremors as well. This gives more time under tension. Extra time on aiming. If practiced your upper body can move and rotate as a "turret". This may help with hunting angles.

Small ammo...

I think GJohn uses those powerful bands and small ammo to get a flatter trajectory. Especially over 10 meters. He uses TTF. Large TTF and this setup helps him to keep point of aim and point of impact as close as possible and do not cover the target by his own fork too much. Other shooters prefer smaller TTF frames. But if your primary goal is hunting wide TTF gives more room for errors.

All of these are effective, as a general shooting style anchored is a great option. Half-Butterfly is fast and feels natural. Full butterfly is just great if you are dialed in.

Hope this post is useful. Take care,

Tremo


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## nmcoyote (Mar 14, 2013)

gabeb said:


> You must realize that you can kill a rabbit by scaring it, throwing a baseball, and with 4 psi on point of impact on the head


Yeah. I hear that.

Native Americans around here hunted rabbit with just a thrown stick. Squirrel are definitely harder to kill. But OP included rabbit his list of desired game. Properly banded and tuned a "half buterfly" is viable for most small game.


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## gabeb (Jan 1, 2016)

nmcoyote said:


> gabeb said:
> 
> 
> > You must realize that you can kill a rabbit by scaring it, throwing a baseball, and with 4 psi on point of impact on the head
> ...


Absolutely, i can tell of a squirrel at 10 yards with single 1 inch .040 med latex with 1/8 oz lead fishing sinker. The pop of his skull was like a firecracker, let's say he dropped still from being hit through his ear with a LOT of ft pounds, also rabbits are better to be killed with a lighter setup causing less thrashing, if you hit them hard they roll and can be lost


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## SlingNerd (Mar 15, 2017)

Really I think it all comes down to accuracy. That's the SlingNerd's two cents.


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## Deadeye Dick (Aug 31, 2015)

Thanks all for the helpful comments, I do agree that accuracy is key with any setup but there also has to be a happy middle were you have both accuracy and enough energy (for hunting anyway). Thanks again.


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

A cheap and easy way to test if your rig and style of shooting provides enough power for hunting, is the steel soup can test (also known as the "red neck" power test). If you can penetrate a steel soup can, you've generally got enough power for hunting.


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## ryanpaul (Mar 7, 2017)

SonoftheRepublic said:


> A cheap and easy way to test if your rig and style of shooting provides enough power for hunting, is the steel soup can test (also known as the "red neck" power test). If you can penetrate a steel soup can, you've generally got enough power for hunting.


penetrate through and through, or just through???


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## romanljc (May 26, 2014)

SonoftheRepublic said:


> A cheap and easy way to test if your rig and style of shooting provides enough power for hunting, is the steel soup can test (also known as the "red neck" power test). If you can penetrate a steel soup can, you've generally got enough power for hunting.


Depends if it makes really big dents it will kill also I think nico wrote about this on his blog years ago consider people been using rocks in slingshots probably before anything else and they defiantly kill small game but will not penetrate a soup can they just create large dents .


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

Generally, penetration of at least one side is sufficient evidence. And as romanljc said, larger ammunition such as rocks probably won't penetrate, (the 'sectional density' of the ammo will play a part here), but a significant dent in the can from larger ammo is also good evidence of severe blunt trauma, which is an important and lethal part of hunting power.

Try the test. Your results, along with a little common sense, will give you a good idea of what will kill and what won't.


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## MikmaqWarrior (May 12, 2014)

Accuracy is more important, IMO....so if you are a better shot with a short draw then use it....

I shoot 3/4 butterfly (just behind my shoulder) but I used to shoot with an archery anchor like Gamekeeper John...I only switched because you can use a lighter bandset to achieve the same velocity...which was better for my bad shoulder... I am now more accurate with the longer draw....but, I took plenty of game with the short draw....it's just a matter of preference..

Good luck figuring it all out...

MW

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