# Chained VS Flat-bands



## kobe23

*band type preference*​
*which do you prefer?*

Chained (straight)126.03%Chained (tapered)199.55%Flat-band (straight)4221.11%Flat-band (tapered)9045.23%Tube (straight)2512.56%Tube (tapered)115.53%


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## kobe23

well did some comparison between chained rubber bands and flat-bands
*bands *: staples 32's 8x8x6 vs usa pro purple 270mm, tapered 20mm to 10mm
*ammo *: 8mm stainless steel bb
*range *: approx 7m, 7.6yard
*backstop *: cans placed on fluffy duvet, meaning max energy is exerted on can, some energy absorbed by duvet before bb puncture can
*control *: aluminium can

























my PERSONAL conclusion(my observation, might be different from others):-
cheap chained rubber bands could perform as well as the flat-band counterpart.

PROs and CONs :
Chained bands
- cheap
- easily obtainable
- could perform as well as flats
- could be replaced in seconds on ringed (example for the 8x8x6 could be split into two 4x4x3, replace the broken only, not whole, advantage for emergency when hunting)
x hard pull to deliver equivalent energy of the flats

Flat-bands
x expensive
x less easily obtainable
x need precision cutting
- much lighter pull to deliver equivalent energy by chained bands

experienced users from both sides, please improve my experiment. i grew up in a city and only got in touch with slingshot few years back, shooting regularly just for 1 1/2 month, much to be learnt.


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## builderofstuff

I'm a big fan of chained bands because I like the fact that they are readily available. One thing I've noticed about them is that in conjunction with them taking more force to pull they don't seem to deliver the speed that flat bands do. Another thing that I've noticed is that you get more hand shock with chained bands, meaning that when you release the pouch and it reaches the forks ,because of the additional mass of the chained bands, the forks feel like they are shoved forward. However as I said I'm a fan of them because they are cheap and readily available.

I recently made some flat bands from readily available exercise bands from walmart. They are really thin in comparison to the latex bands that I make, however I just add more bands, and they are quite fast. A nice cheap alternative.

Chris


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## kobe23

builderofstuff said:


> ... flat bands from readily available exercise bands from walmart...


walmart should have opened some branches in the UK. it's like you guys could buy practically everything from walmart and it's cheap. the cheapest flat exercise bands i could get are the body sculpture band set, which some dude on ebay always start the bid at £3.99. bought 1 box but haven't tried them. need to learn more about chains as they would be very useful when my flats run out.


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## harpersgrace

That's a hard question for me as I mostly use tubes, and the slingshots I use flatbands on are pretty much flatband only designs, but I will have to say I was quite impressed by a fork jmp sent me with chains, easy pull but packs a punch...with me it all comes down to the fork I guess.


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## dragonmaster

I do cut my one flat bands but not as much any more as it is a lot of trouble for me. I prefer the chained rubber and really like the 64's in a 443 chain. As for the 32's I am still looking for a better rubber band don't really like the cheep ones. So fore me I shoot mostly thin tubs 1745 and chained rubber 64's 443.


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## Frodo

Rubberband's wich are good to use for chained bands are hard to obtain in germany. Tubes and flat's are easy to obtain.


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## tubeman

I wish tubes had been included in this Poll


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## Nico

I'm not entertaining this nonsense.. I already said before I wont get into the my bands vs your bands b/s its absolutely pointless..
If you dont like something dont use it.. Why turn it into some debate?


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## tubeman

I suppose that is your choice Nico, but as far as I saw the Poll was not compulsory. I don't agree that these comparisons are pointless, as that's how new enthusiasts to slingshot shooting like me gain knowledge. Thanks.


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## kobe23

Nico said:


> I'm not entertaining this nonsense.. I already said before I wont get into the my bands vs your bands b/s its absolutely pointless..
> If you dont like something dont use it.. Why turn it into some debate?


Well that is not my intention.. was thinking if somebody could pop-up with random suggestions to improve my setup and knowledge on slingshots... I sincerely apologize if I offended you nico...


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## kobe23

enddays said:


> I wish tubes had been included in this Poll


Would like to, but i have no supplies of tubes, at all.. therefore i have like zero knowledge on tubes...


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## tubeman

Appreciate your comment that you have no experience of using tubes, but if they had been included as an option in the Poll you might have go a more balanced result, and been tempted to try latex tubes. I admit to being biased as I think they are great







Re availabilty, Ebay has a good selection friend. Thanks.


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## Nico

kobe23 said:


> I'm not entertaining this nonsense.. I already said before I wont get into the my bands vs your bands b/s its absolutely pointless..
> If you dont like something dont use it.. Why turn it into some debate?


Well that is not my intention.. was thinking if somebody could pop-up with random suggestions to improve my setup and knowledge on slingshots... I sincerely apologize if I offended you nico...
[/quote]

You didnt offend me mate I just wanted to avoid something that was stirred some months ago by a problematic type regarding chains and flats which was almost a reason I left the forum but Jmp convinced me to stay so I did.

If you want to try a good set of chains I will hook you up with a bandset or two with a stone shooter pouch so you can see what the red clay chains are like in terms of power and performance. They are not soft pull but can deliver some serious power and I use these for hunting.. But the cheap #32s have no comparisson..

In that regard I apologize for sounding so harsh..

PM me if you are interested.


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## kobe23

I think maybe it's the way I setup the experiment that make it look like a topdog-underdog comparison. Before I even start my first post/reply, I read alot about you Nico and Jmp, much respect. Almost everybody's experienced with flats but not many really appreciate the usefulness of rubber bands. I believe sling shooting is a sport, as long as target is achieved the method is not much of a concern. Much to learn from you Nico. Will be more careful with my posts...


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## NaturalFork

I mostly shoot tubes these days however I do like thera flats and shoot those often. Along with saunders flats.


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## M.J

I'm not sure this is a valid comparison.
Those chains are really heavy and those bands are very thin. To get a comperable draw weight you would have to double those bands and probably make them wider and less radically tapered. If you can actually draw those 866s then you should really make yourself some heavier, faster bands.
I like Chinese tubes myself.


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## jmplsnt

I found this interesting as kobe was able to get some good results with cheap 32's. The chains I made with them were, politely put, very lame. He was able to down a soda can (double penetration at that) at 7.6 m. I find that interesting.

Nico, good of you to offer him some elastics. I have told him in a pm that the difference between cheap office 32's and red clays is akin to walking down the side of the road and riding in a Ferrarri.

Cheap 32's are not my taste but this is a great example of someone taking what they have and making something positive happen. I haven't personally tried this setup (though if I get bored enough I may try it) but I believe with his results you could probably down at least some smaller game (birds) with the setup based on the coke can picture. Again, I haven't tried it myself so I'm not giving it a hard endorsement but I bet it could work.


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## josephlys

I think Id like flatbands cause they shoot pretty good, and compared to chains it's sure less work to do.


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## kobe23

I want the red platinum crepe bands >.<
these cheap stuff keep breaking on me T____T


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## kobe23

yesterday, I went to the door after like 30-40 sec the postman deliver letter, missed him, couldn't find him.
today, same thing, however I am on second floor. I checked the window in approx a min after the letter came *whoa!* he's down the street 6 houses away! Way too efficient!
Ran down the street, caught up with Mr. Friendly Indian Postman.
me : 'Hiya, do you deliver in this area, EVERYDAY?'
Mr P : 'Yea, everyday.'
me : 'I'd like to get some elastics, alot, could you give some to me, maybe I can pay you for them.'
Mr P : 'No no no, show me your hands, I'll give them to you. Which house number you live?'
me : 'xxx'
Mr P : ' Maybe I'll get a box tomorrow and ring on your bell.'
me : ' Thanks lots mate.'
*running off home*








he gave me almost all elastics he have the instant 

they are of same thickness, but slightly thicker than 32's. hope these are of better quality for chains =D


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## dragonmaster

I'm still unable to find the red clay's the office supply can order some in they say are close but not sure yet. I am using 64's in a 332 chain and can put a 3/8 steal shot through a been can at 10 meters. in the coming weeks I will be trying a heaver set.


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## orcrender

DM go to http://www.rubberbandguns.com/catalog.htm click on ammo and look for size 32. Are these what you are looking for?


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## orcrender

Not sure I could answer the poll as I use all that are mentioned. Really like the Trumark RRT tubes and the 17/45 tubes on my dankungs. Tapered flats on my PS3. Straight flats for the others.


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## dragonmaster

orcrender said:


> DM go to http://www.rubberbandguns.com/catalog.htm click on ammo and look for size 32. Are these what you are looking for?


Thanks for the info I'll check it oout.


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## aikidog

Is there a link or special link anywhere that shows how to make the chained rubberbands? Been looking to try that


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## bbshooter

Check out Nico's Blog @

http://slingshotforu...misconceptions/

and

http://slingshotforum.com/blog/24/entry-264-how-to-make-the-chain-linked-rubberband-bands/

Also use the search box. This subject is a popular one.


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## mr.joel

Here's my two cents: flats perform better with lighter bullets. Undoubtedly the flats are more efficient in terms of performance and need to be so when shooting the lighter stuff. Chains on the other hand, are quite underrated and perform quite adequately with the heavier(.50 steel/.44 lead and up) bullets. If we look at efficiency in terms of in performance, cost and longevity, I think they may actually beat many tubes and latex flats in that they draw smoother than a lot of tubes and last longer than any latex flats. They will not last quite as long as most tubes, but are cheap and repeatable. I wonder if this is the most well rounded band set available with these factors in mind. I have not tried the #32 crepes, but the Alliance #64s I tried are much more impressive than I thought they would be. It is most definitely the way to go if you're on the cheap.


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## Ordie69

Good information guys. Being new to both bands and chains, I have only used tubes at this point, I appreciate you all sharing your knowledge. Good topic.


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## Papa G

have used several types of rubber bands on a stick shot I made, as i had not money for flast or tube. Was pleantly suprised at the results. I used both chained and cut as flats. these where not Alliance just bog standerd rubber bands.After reading on this forum, nicos blog and others on #32, #64 chained and #107 cut flat and tappered can wait to get some Alliance rubber. Thanks for all the great advice that is given on the pages of this forum. As for my choice of bands i shoot what I can get or have money for Papa G


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## peash00ter

i love chains and i tried 107s but disliked them, just my opinion, i just like how i can customize and taper the chain easily and since i just drill a hole in my slingshot forks so i can replace them in 20seconds with no tieing, i just like the customization and the pricing and the non tangleyness of them.
chained rubber bands are my favorite thing right now


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## marcus sr

I made my first 2 sets today.one at 2x2x2 for my son and a hunting set 4x4x4 for me,used red postie bands,pleasantly surprised would be the words


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## Charles

marcus sr said:


> I made my first 2 sets today.one at 2x2x2 for my son and a hunting set 4x4x4 for me,used red postie bands,pleasantly surprised would be the words


I am making up a slingshot for a 10 year old lad. I am thinking of setting it up with a chain of 64s ... probably 2x2x2. That gives surprisingly good speed for light weight ammo, but is not too hard to draw. The big advantage is that the lad can make his own bands and change them when something breaks. And he can find those 64s just about anywhere. I have three weeks before the slingshot is due to be presented and I have to instruct him on its use. By all means, keep me posted on how your son gets on with the chained bands ... let me know if you think I should reconsider.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## marcus sr

Charles said:


> I made my first 2 sets today.one at 2x2x2 for my son and a hunting set 4x4x4 for me,used red postie bands,pleasantly surprised would be the words


I am making up a slingshot for a 10 year old lad. I am thinking of setting it up with a chain of 64s ... probably 2x2x2. That gives surprisingly good speed for light weight ammo, but is not too hard to draw. The big advantage is that the lad can make his own bands and change them when something breaks. And he can find those 64s just about anywhere. I have three weeks before the slingshot is due to be presented and I have to instruct him on its use. By all means, keep me posted on how your son gets on with the chained bands ... let me know if you think I should reconsider.

Cheers ..... Charles
[/quote]hes 7 charles and was pulling them easy enuff,i had a go my self and used a 12mm steel lol from 15ft,jrs,shooting distance and it got there more than rapidly,jr uses 8mm and them little things zipped along,lol on my daughters tabbed holly ,they are 1x1x1 lol and the 8mm flew just as well,as i said,pleasantly surprised,i only made them for speed because my boy was nagging me about his old band snappin! for a 10 yr old,how about 3x3x2?


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## Charles

marcus sr said:


> I made my first 2 sets today.one at 2x2x2 for my son and a hunting set 4x4x4 for me,used red postie bands,pleasantly surprised would be the words


I am making up a slingshot for a 10 year old lad. I am thinking of setting it up with a chain of 64s ... probably 2x2x2. That gives surprisingly good speed for light weight ammo, but is not too hard to draw. The big advantage is that the lad can make his own bands and change them when something breaks. And he can find those 64s just about anywhere. I have three weeks before the slingshot is due to be presented and I have to instruct him on its use. By all means, keep me posted on how your son gets on with the chained bands ... let me know if you think I should reconsider.

Cheers ..... Charles
[/quote]hes 7 charles and was pulling them easy enuff,i had a go my self and used a 12mm steel lol from 15ft,jrs,shooting distance and it got there more than rapidly,jr uses 8mm and them little things zipped along,lol on my daughters tabbed holly ,they are 1x1x1 lol and the 8mm flew just as well,as i said,pleasantly surprised,i only made them for speed because my boy was nagging me about his old band snappin! for a 10 yr old,how about 3x3x2?
[/quote]

I tried 3x2x2 for just plinking myself ... being neither as young nor as muscular as I used to be! I think I will start him with 2x2x2 and see how it feels to him. I will show him how to beef it up if he wants to do that later. I think I would rather he have an easy pull and develop good accuracy in the beginning. I have tried 6.5 mm steel, and can't shoot them very well at all with that set up. But it handles 9.5 mm steel very well indeed.

Thanks for giving me the benefit of your experience!

Cheers .... Charles


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## Nico

For what its's worth.. What Mr. Joel Said is correct chains work best with heavier ammo and in my personal experience I feel that the chains are "muscle bands" and require that the weight of ammo be up to the challenge of each chain set.

Even lighter sets I have shot better with 7/16 steelies and those .31 lead balls my amigo Jamie gave me worked well with the lighter chains.

In the end with the chains you have to find your own way, exprience it for yourself and see what works for you, because we all shoot differently and we each have our own ammo preferences. 

I do well with 333 chained #64s with a semi butterfly draw and heavier ammo 220 to 277 grain stones and I also love the red #32 platinum rubberbands in a 444 for hunting. Plenty of stopping power but its best you experience the chains for yourself as that is the ultimate indication of how things work for each person.

Better living through experience









Nico


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## Charles

Thanks for the advice, Nico. I will stick with the 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) steel for now, as that is what is readily available locally. He will also be able to shoot stones, as there are a lot of them around. I will let him try a few different band sets to see what is comfortable for him. Then I will check back with him in a month or so to see how he is doing. And your motto is bang-on: Better living through experience.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## M.J

Nico said:


> Better living through experience
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nico


That's a fantastic quote!


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## dragonmaster

These are setup with 64's the way I'm useing them now. Just a single cut stack and tie. Make them as strong as you like.


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## Dayhiker

dragonmaster said:


> These are setup with 64's the way I'm useing them now. Just a single cut stack and tie. Make them as strong as you like.


Thanks for posting this, DM. You just gave me something to do today before the Patriot's game. I'm gonna put a stack like that on my bent rod frame from you, which I haven't shot in a while!

Edit:
Okay I'm back and I learned something.
I just made a chain of 4 per side. First 10 or 15 shots, I though they were too short, but after a few more the bandset broke in a bit (and me too).
I was shooting at this 7 oz. can from 10 yards with 3/8 steel, 7/16 steel, and marbles. All were stinging the can pretty good, to my surprse. But what really got me was that, just for kicks, I tried a 1/2-inch steel ball and it didn't drop very much at all and it hit the target a good smack, too! Now this is only 4 layers per side. I think with a couple more this would shoot real flat and fast. . . . Hmmm, never expected this.

This is the can after quite a few shots -- I couldn't stop, haha!








And here's DM's nice fork, for those of you who haven't seen it.









Thanks, DM. I learned something today and had lots of fun in the process!


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## Charles

I just posted my experience with braids as opposed to more traditional chains. Some of you on this thread might find it interesting.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/12956-pros-and-cons-of-office-bands/

Cheers ...... Charles


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## dragonmaster

Charles with the setup of stacking the cut bands I'm getting better preformance and band life than the chain set's with a normal draw for me. Just what's happening for me your finding's if you try this might be different.


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## Charles

dragonmaster said:


> Charles with the setup of stacking the cut bands I'm getting better preformance and band life than the chain set's with a normal draw for me. Just what's happening for me your finding's if you try this might be different.


I tried the stacked bands only briefly. I am using a long draw theses days ... 39-40 inches. I cannot get that with cut 64s. Also, I really like the ease of attachement with the braids as opposed to the need for ties with the stacked bands. And as I indicated before, replacing a broken band in a braid is to my mind much easier than with the stack.

Don't get me wrong ... I am not knocking the stacked band concept. In fact, I think it is a great way to go, as it allows me to use those bands that break in chains!!! It is always good to have a variety of approaches available. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the stacks.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## dragonmaster

Charles said:


> Charles with the setup of stacking the cut bands I'm getting better preformance and band life than the chain set's with a normal draw for me. Just what's happening for me your finding's if you try this might be different.


I tried the stacked bands only briefly. I am using a long draw theses days ... 39-40 inches. I cannot get that with cut 64s. Also, I really like the ease of attachement with the braids as opposed to the need for ties with the stacked bands. And as I indicated before, replacing a broken band in a braid is to my mind much easier than with the stack.

Don't get me wrong ... I am not knocking the stacked band concept. In fact, I think it is a great way to go, as it allows me to use those bands that break in chains!!! It is always good to have a variety of approaches available. Thanks for sharing your experiences with the stacks.

Cheers ...... Charles
[/quote]

That's the beauty of the slingshot not every body likes or wants the same thing. The slingshot can be fully customised to your likeing with little effort at a low cost .


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## rubberpower

I tried the braided chain with #32 bands from walmart on a small chinese frame and it is really a nice shooter. Plenty of speed and really smooth. The more I shoot them the better I like it. The bands from walmart are not the best quality, does anyone know the name of a hight quality gum rubber band?


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## Charles

rubberpower said:


> I tried the braided chain with #32 bands from walmart on a small chinese frame and it is really a nice shooter. Plenty of speed and really smooth. The more I shoot them the better I like it. The bands from walmart are not the best quality, does anyone know the name of a hight quality gum rubber band?


Try Alliance bands ... available on Amazon, Ebay or from many office supply stores.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Alliance-Sterling-size-64-Rubber-Bands-/180629810620?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a0e602dbc

http://www.amazon.com/Alliance-Sterling-Ergonomically-Correct-24645/dp/B000CCYVO2/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1323648002&sr=8-1

I found the Sparco brand from Office Depot to work well:

http://www.officedepot.ca/Rubber-Bands/Sparco-Pure-Rubber-Bands-2464504.asp

Good luck ...

Cheers ..... Charles


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## rubberpower

Charles said:


> I tried the braided chain with #32 bands from walmart on a small chinese frame and it is really a nice shooter. Plenty of speed and really smooth. The more I shoot them the better I like it. The bands from walmart are not the best quality, does anyone know the name of a hight quality gum rubber band?


Try Alliance bands ... available on Amazon, Ebay or from many office supply stores.

http://www.ebay.com/...=item2a0e602dbc

http://www.amazon.co...23648002&sr=8-1

I found the Sparco brand from Office Depot to work well:

http://www.officedep...nds-2464504.asp

Good luck ...

Cheers ..... Charles
[/quote]
Thanks for the info. It is appreciated.


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## Charles

Someone sent me the following PM: " I would like to give the braided bands a try but don't have any gypsy tabs on my natural frame. Would it be best to just secure a loop of light rope or leather where the flats or tubes would normally be secured OTT?"

I thought others might be interested, so here is my response. Of course you could just tie a loop of leather or parachord or something similar to the forks, much as you would tie a flat band ... sort of like the following:










However, that means that when you want change the braided chain, you have to untie that loop, which to me is a pain. However, if you are willing to drill a small hole in the forks, there is a quicker way. You can use a hand drill, a power drill, or even an auger of the sort I have on my old Swiss army knife:










You could even hold a nail with a pair of pliers, heat it in a flame or on the burner of an electric stove, and burn a hole through the fork. Your hole only needs to be about 3/16 of an inch, or about 5mm in diameter. It just needs to be big enough to pass a doubled piece of the leather thong, parachord, string, or whatever you are going to use as a loop. Personally, I buy shoe strings very cheaply at second hand stores. Soooo, here is your loop material and your frame with holes in the forks:










Run one end of the chord through the hole in a fork, pass it through the end of the rubber band braid, and then back through the hole. Then bring the two ends of the chord around opposite sides of the fork and tie them with a square knot, leaving the loop at the desired length.










Cut off the chord, but leave enough that you can untie the knot and retie it later. Now, if you need to change your band, just untie the square knot, change the band, re-thread the chord, and re-tie the knot. To me that is a lot easier than the usual method of tying flatbands. To facilitate re-threading the chord, dip the end in fingernail polish or something similar roll the end into a bit of a point, and let it dry.

In my example, I have set it up for OTT. Of course you could drill the holes through the sides of the forks if you wanted either TTF or OTF.

Hope this helps.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Alex Jacob

I was well into Theraband Gold but it's fiddly to make and attach bands compared with linked office bands. I started with Staples No. 64s which, when doubled over, require 5 links for a 7.5 inch brace height. I had them in 2,2,2,2,3 configuration so each side had 48mm of rubber at the pouch and 72mm at the fork. I've recently changed to Five Star No.38s (152x3mm) with three links per side of 4,4,5 bands giving 48mm at the pouch and 60mm at the fork. With only three links there are only two "knuckles" per side. Just had a test and this set-up seems faster than 4,5,6 bands, which is weird. Anyway, brace height is about 8 inches, draw is to my ear, accuracy is excellent (ie no worse than Theraband) and release is a quiet rustle. 6 quid a pound, they are, from Amazon.

I had a go at Quality 208s (203x16mm), one per side, but they're fragile and don't have much stretch.

The only tubes I've used were on my old Black Widow, too long ago to offer a good comparison but I don't recall being overly impressed. Quite drawn to the Chinese method, though. I'll have to give it a go.

(At 11 Jan...) Well, that's now a whacking big fib, cos I've spurned the office bands and am into 1842 tapered tubes with the zeal of a convert. Check out Henry of Panama's thread on Chinese tubing and you'll see why.


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## archerben15

This might sound stupid but I use a chain of size 19 bands. I am a very big guy and weight is not an issue for me, but I like the chained 19's because of their light draw and how fast they shoot. The way I set my bands is I take 8 size 19 bands and connect them to a group of 7 size 19 bands. After that I attach a group of 6 size 19 bands and connect them to the group of 7. To finish the band I connect the 6 band segment to the pouch and the 8 band segment to the post, and repeat for the other band. Since I am such a big guy I need the bands that long to shoot normally but any smaller guys could shoot this setup albatross style with ease.


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## Charles

Now that is very interesting. I have not considered using those small bands before. Nice to know it works. What size ammo are you shooting?

Cheers ....... Charles


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## archerben15

with this setup I tend to use larger ammo, like marbles and lug-nuts, because as fast as these bands are, compared to other chained bands, they aren't as fast as flatbands and the extra weight helps the bands hit hard despite their lesser speed.


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## cheese

straight tubes!


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## newconvert

the rubber band mess is unsightly, hard pull, slow contraction, slower shot, reverse that for flat bands. for me the extra pennies are worth the advantage of flats


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## newconvert

aikidog said:


> Is there a link or special link anywhere that shows how to make the chained rubberbands? Been looking to try that


its in this section just look at all the useful articles


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## Tex-Shooter

There is a difference in tubing also. Dipped tubing is better than extruded tubing. That is one reason that commercial tapered tubes (there dipped) work a little more efficient that commercial straight tubing. Also multiple small tube work better than one large one. The small tube that I sell is dipped, but not tapered. There is also a difference in the latex compound between companies. Being small time I can't afford Mandrels for dipped tubing like the big boys can. But on a plus note, it is hard and expensive to make small dipped tapered tubing, so right now the small dipped straight rube is a very viable option. -- Tex


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## pop shot

newconvert said:


> the rubber band mess is unsightly, hard pull, slow contraction, slower shot, reverse that for flat bands. for me the extra pennies are worth the advantage of flats


I used to feel the same way, til I was traveling and broke a band. I threw some chains together and I was sold. Where a flat set would fluctuate greatly with light and heavy ammo, chains speed is pretty equal with light and heavy ammo. Like a crotch rocket vs a Harley, sure the crotch rocket can go 200 mph, but the guy on the Harley can go 150 with his huge wife on the back. I shoot both, but isn't this one sexy tabbed up with chains?


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## mr.joel

I think the weight on chains is slightly offset by less drag due to the slots between the rubber bands. Would they outperform latex flats in cold weather? Now there's an interesting question....


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## Charles

Here is one I have been shooting lately:










Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I do not think the bands look messy at all ... in fact I like the look. I prefer braids to chains ... just my preference. The braids are easier to construct and adjust than chains, and it is easier to replace a rubber band in a braid than in a chain. And with braids, you do not lose any material in the knot, as you do with knotted chains.

The set up in the photos is made with plain #64 rubber bands. This one has eight #64s doubled per side. In that configuration I can shoot in full butterfly. By my Chrony, it fires 3/8 inch steel (54 gr) and 3/8 inch lead (79 gr) at the same velocity ... 190 fps (temperature 20 C, or about 70 F). Not blindingly fast, but not too shabby. It fires the hunting slugs (made in my wooden mold), which weigh 140 gr, at 170 fps. That heavy slug, moving at that speed, is more than adequate for just about any small game. And when you shoot, it is very quiet.

One of the great advantages of this sort of arrangement is the ease with which you can change the configuration. If you do not like shooting butterfly, just a few moments allows you to shorten the bands to suit yourself ... or lengthen them. Or you can taper the bands just by adding a few extras toward the fork. If a band breaks, it is simple and quick to replace the one #64 that broke. As long as you make the two bands symmetric, you can mix #64s and #32s, or any other size bands you like. And making short tapers or long butterfly bands, no cutting is required ... further, you can use the same rubberbands over and over in different configurations.

These bands are available everywhere ... I even found them in Belize!

As many have said, TBG is faster. But there are certainly some advantages to plain old rubberbands. Personally, I shoot with both flats and braided chains. I like them both.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## mr.joel

That thing is cool Charles. Very nice setup that is repeatable worldwide. I for one can appreciate this. Did you get that cord lock from a British army stuff sack?


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## Charles

There is a great store here in Victoria, Jeune Brothers Tent and Awning:

http://www.jeunebros.com/

They were happy to order the cable locks for me. I think you can probably get them on-line.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## jburdine1956

Charles said:


> Here is one I have been shooting lately:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but I do not think the bands look messy at all ... in fact I like the look. I prefer braids to chains ... just my preference. The braids are easier to construct and adjust than chains, and it is easier to replace a rubber band in a braid than in a chain. And with braids, you do not lose any material in the knot, as you do with knotted chains.
> 
> The set up in the photos is made with plain #64 rubber bands. This one has eight #64s doubled per side. In that configuration I can shoot in full butterfly. By my Chrony, it fires 3/8 inch steel (54 gr) and 3/8 inch lead (79 gr) at the same velocity ... 190 fps (temperature 20 C, or about 70 F). Not blindingly fast, but not too shabby. It fires the hunting slugs (made in my wooden mold), which weigh 140 gr, at 170 fps. That heavy slug, moving at that speed, is more than adequate for just about any small game. And when you shoot, it is very quiet.
> 
> One of the great advantages of this sort of arrangement is the ease with which you can change the configuration. If you do not like shooting butterfly, just a few moments allows you to shorten the bands to suit yourself ... or lengthen them. Or you can taper the bands just by adding a few extras toward the fork. If a band breaks, it is simple and quick to replace the one #64 that broke. As long as you make the two bands symmetric, you can mix #64s and #32s, or any other size bands you like. And making short tapers or long butterfly bands, no cutting is required ... further, you can use the same rubberbands over and over in different configurations.
> 
> These bands are available everywhere ... I even found them in Belize!
> 
> As many have said, TBG is faster. But there are certainly some advantages to plain old rubberbands. Personally, I shoot with both flats and braided chains. I like them both.
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles


If I may ask, what did you make your frame from, and what are your dimensions? 
Jimb


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## Charles

jburdine1956 said:


> If I may ask, what did you make your frame from, and what are your dimensions?
> Jimb


The frame is 1/2 inch thick High Density Polyethylene (HDP) from an old cutting board I picked up at a second hand store.

I started with Dayhikers Little Ninja design and then tried a number of changes to it to find something that suited me. Here is the story on that:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/12857-ninja-evolution/page__hl__ninja__fromsearch__1

A pdf for the design, but with pinky hole, may be found here:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/14225-mutant-ninja-in-oak/page__hl__%2Bmutant+%2Bninja__fromsearch__1

If you print the design, be sure to specify "no scaling". All measurements are on the design.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## combowslingguy 1

Hi Charles,
Interesting topic here. As you bought and tried my Com Bow Sling and seemed to be impressed. I have said on forums that it is how things are used that can change things. Fifty years ago the old Whamo would out do the Wrist Rocket. Especially with smaller shot why because the flat bands could streach all the way to the fork and all the way to the pouch. Where the W R waisted at least an inch at the fork and at least an inch at the pouch. As the prong also weight a bit too. The bands were a little heavier in weight too. I had a little slingshot called Pocket sock-it that Kent Shepard liked. That one started pulling at about 2 " behind your sling hand. And the Whamo started pulling at about 6 " . And as I remember It pulled about 13 # and the Whamo pulled about 16 # . And mine would out do it at least for 1/4 " steel balls. In those days you shot into old magazines to see how many pages the shot went through. Cronographs are a little better don't you think , progress.

I think that latex small I. D. tubing is best at least for the Com Bow Sling as it has to go around the pulleys. And it allows for rubber to rubber conections with the sleeves and retainers. Also as the small I. D. is pulled through it self for a tight connection with the pouch for instance to elimanate pouch curl .

With my Com Bow Sling I feel that there are advantages. 
1. Longer power stroke and a built in follow through.
2. Very long band life as , the system is easy on them.
3. Compact compared to the style of W R Pro for instance.
4. The " Com " stands for Compound , Compact & Combination.
5. Bands change easily and for differnt purposes.
6. It adjusts to you rather than you needing to adjust to it.
7. It can be turnd around for speed shooting as the bands return to a place to shoot quickly again.
8. Little to no recoil as much of the band is going in the opposite way.
9. It is modular in design to where various things can be added sights , stabilizers , quivers and so forth.
10. I might think of more later.

I think that some of you know that I am not taking orders now. But Charles talked me into making him one ,Cheers Charles. I still am trying to get someone involved to help or to take it over. Maybe if some of you would like to see it going much better than it is you could leave a comment on the www.combowslingguy.com/index.html web page . Or e mail at [email protected] Thank you all ! As I was ready to hit post I just thought that someone might start something on the forum to ask some questions. As you can tell I am quite opinionanated. Thanks guys and to the Forum, Robert Blair

P. S. When will someone figure a way for a spell check. As I sure need one. L O L .


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## Charles

I will repeat that I am impressed with that Com Bow Sling. It is a lovely piece of technology.

Robert, I agree with you that those round tubes are the best bet on your design. They allow for a compact design, small pulleys, and quick changes.

Thank you again so much for agreeing to make up a set for me.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## combowslingguy 1

Thanks so very much again, Charles and you are very welcome. You were very fast with your reply. As I am not so very smart. I just try many things and think a bit differntly .

Do you think that anyone at all would be interested in asking some questions of me. And would it be possible to set something up. I have been around for many ,many years and know a bit of the history of slingshots. At least from my point of view.
Thanks again and cheers, Robert Blair combowslingguy 1


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## mr.joel

What wherewithal would be needed to get involved? You have my attention...? I saw this question on your website and asked you about it in an email long ago, but alas no response. You can PM me with the info if you like.


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## combowslingguy 1

Mr. Joel,
After spending quite a bit of time trying to send you a P M . It poped up that you can't receive messages. So if you will please use one of my e mails I will answer. Thanks for your interest. Robert Blair [email protected]


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## mr.joel

Wow, that's weird: I tried to email you and it bounced back? Perhaps if memory serves me correctly your address is [email protected]? I will try a PM as it is working on my end, I just sent one to someone else.


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## Adirondack Kyle

Wow!!, how can someone get so tweaked out over an honest question? I prob should just let this go but.....
I love this forum, and most people here are quiet helpful and are not offended by honest questions and polls
Its the very FEW, that can deter a newcomer from asking anymore!!
Think before you post, and if you don't like a poll, 
Don't click on it!!
This is supposed to be fun and educational, new shooters are what keep this sport/hobby alive, 
I think this was a great poll and learned from it myself!!
Thanks


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## Susi

Our office supply stores here in Ecuador have rubber bands but they are not rubber, they are some synthetic which loses elasticity big time in about ten pulls...if they don't break! Do real rubber bands exist these days or has the world been completely taken over by polymers and petro products?


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## Susi

I tried taking a shock cord apart, filled with lots of small bands. They stretch fine but there's so many of them it's like a plate of spagetti and a hassle to tie off, a real bag of worms, literally. Using shock cord is weird as well, the cloth sheath slows velocity considerably. We have a medical supply store which sells latex tube and a large home depot like store which also sells it...eight USD per meter...expensive. I get three SS tubes out of 1 meter of it but it holds up well. For fifteen USD I can import a whole roll of TB gold, plus the price of the TB but there's no club here, yet, to absorb all that TB. I sure can't...I dont wear out bands at the rate a whole roll of TB would last so I'll have to stick with tubes bought locally.


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## Charles

I agree that I do not think taking shock chord apart is reasonable for the reasons you describe. I also doubt that it would be fast enough. You would be better to use office rubber bands ... they should be more readily available, and they perform quite well.

As for getting too much Theraband ... well, there are many who cannot imagine having too much. Maybe you just need to increase the amount of time you spend shooting ...  :wave:

Cheers .... Charles


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## Adirondack Kyle

Cant have too much thera, just store it in a cool dry place, and you will have quality latex for your slingshots for a while! I get withdrawal symptoms when i get low on thera!!


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## reset

Not sure my opinion counts for much as im a noob and i dont have a Chrony yet. But at the start i ordered a variety of bands to try including Thera gold, latex,107's and went to Staples and got #64's. I also ordered various size pouches to experiment with.

So going by what i can comfortably handle in my old age with Arthritis in my hands and by smashing up pop cans i find i prefer #64 bands chained not braided and larger rockstar pouch so far. The way my chains are setup i pull 32". 3x2x2x1. Although i seem to do as much damage with 2x2x2x1.

If i toughen up and or loosen up after a month or two in my hands i may change my mind.


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## Charles

Reset, it is an excellent idea to try a number of different band types to find what suits you. As you suggest, after a month or two you may well change your mind. That is one of the nice things about slingshots ... there are always new variations to try. Good strategy on your part.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## SlingShotSeth

Not meaning to stir up an old thread... Just want to take a second to thank Charles for the awesome chaining idea!!! I now know how I am going to band the boo shooter I'm working on 
Thanks guys!

Seth,


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## Malleus

SlingShotSeth said:


> Not meaning to stir up an old thread... Just want to take a second to thank Charles for the awesome chaining idea!!! I now know how I am going to band the boo shooter I'm working on
> Thanks guys!
> 
> Seth,


I'll second that.

Charles' posts have been very informative and very helpful to me in the short time I've been here.

Thanks to him I now use braided office bands on my Dankung and they're far more powerful than the tubes it came with,

Ian


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## SuperMonkeySlinger

I wish i was part of the forum when all of these tests were going on.. 

SMS


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## ChapmanHands

I have only been shooting for a month or so, and I started off with the chained wal mart brand 64's, I now use the same rubberbands, but coat them with baby powder before I band them up, and I also braid them instead of chaining them now. Seems like I get alot more shots off without one of my rubber bands breaking this way. My current band set is 3 3 2 2, and already put over 400 shots through it with no breaks, but they are starting to wear now. They work really well for me but I also design my own natural slingshots, and I make sure my design will work well with that type of band. I have a wrist rocket as well, but that almost never gets used now that I've started making my own. Something satisfying about making your own hunting tools and practicing ever day for the next small game season.


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## Charles

ChapmanHands said:


> I have only been shooting for a month or so, and I started off with the chained walmart brand 64's, I now use the same rubberbands, but coat them with baby powder before I band them up, and I also braid them instead of chaining them now. Seems like I get alot more shots off without one of my rubber bands breaking this way. My current band set is 3 3 2 2, and already put over 400 shots through it with no breaks, but they are starting to wear now. They work really well for me but I also design my own natural slingshots, and I make sure my design will work well with that type of band. I have a wrist rocket as well, but that almost never gets used now that I've started making my own. Something satisfying about making your own hunting tools and practicing ever day for the next small game season.


Sounds like you are doing everything about the right way. Glad to hear you are finding setups that work for you. I fully agree that there is something very satisfying about making your own gear.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## myusername

straight cut flat bands


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## jonathanfv

I like going through old topics like that one! A few days ago, I made myself a small slingshot (about 3in wide by 4 in tall) for plinking, and I used 6 braided 64s on each side. Even in a 1-1-1-1-1-1 configuration with cheap office bands, it shoots really well. I don't have a Chrony, but it feels like around 150 fps with 3/8 steel. I just wanted something really small and fun to use, and I'm very pleased with it! Next, I'll use the same design but with paracord gypsy tabs, and I'll probably use a better pouch.

Thanks again to you guys for sharing all this nice information. I have no doubt that if I make slightly longer (to be able to go full butterfly instead of just past the ear) and thicker braids, I'll get very decent power out of my slingshot!

And by the way, anybody tested office bands in the cold? I also have a feeling they'd be less affected than faster bands.


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## ChapmanHands

I live in upstate NY, and it gets pretty cold here indeed, lol. As said earlier in the topic I use office bands quite a bit and the cold does seem to affect their life span. It may be that I use cheap wal mart brand 64's, but in warm weather I can get hundreds of shots before any sign of wear. Last few times I have been out with fresh band sets they seldom make the return home. Maybe 100 shots and they start popping.


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## jonathanfv

Oh, I missed your post! Thanks a lot for telling me again!


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## D.Nelson

Man I love office rubber bands. Sometimes however, I will make a chain and only get a few shots off and one breaks. I was uing them this winter in WI hunting. Pretty frustrating in the field. They are so cheap and available its hard not to love them though.

I really need to get some of those red #32s.


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## TheNewSlingshotGuy

ChapmanHands said:


> I live in upstate NY, and it gets pretty cold here indeed, lol. As said earlier in the topic I use office bands quite a bit and the cold does seem to affect their life span. It may be that I use cheap walmart brand 64's, but in warm weather I can get hundreds of shots before any sign of wear. Last few times I have been out with fresh band sets they seldom make the return home. Maybe 100 shots and they start popping.


Where upstate? In the Catskills? Loch sheldrake? Monticello?


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## nike

good


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## Jack666

I have shoot with chains since I was a kid,im in my 50s now, cheap easy to get and also hard hitting depending on ammo size or sort of ammo. I've always found the pouch being slightly larger than on a normal catty works best. Band ratio depends on the user, different strokes for different folks. Respect to all


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