# COVID-19: What’s your locality’s situation? - Part II



## Griffo

So how's it goin' in your neck of the woods ..?

In the UK the Government has made the wearing of face coverings in shops and other enclosed places mandatory from the 24th.

Face covering has a broad definition; face masks, bandanas, yer wife's panties. Whatever you like really, provided it's covering your face. This is going to be enforced by the plod with non-compliance meaning on the spot fines of £60.

Already the country is dividing into two camps - those who think this is great news and those who think it's utter nonsense. I tend to agree with the latter group more (for reasons, lack of evidence, virus is 80-120 nm making cloth masks useless etc).

Either way it's going to an interesting social experiment into public behaviour. How many will comply, how many will refuse? The police are objecting saying they have better things to do than enforce this, like fighting crime.

I've bought a crap Chinese bandana for the 24th because I wasn't keen on strapping what looks like a sanitary towel across my face.

Let's see how this kicks off. h34r:


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## spewing

Griffo said:


> So how's it goin' in your neck of the woods ..?
> 
> In the UK the Government has made the wearing of face coverings in shops and other enclosed places mandatory from the 24th.
> 
> Face covering has a broad definition; face masks, bandanas, yer wife's panties. Whatever you like really, provided it's covering your face. This is going to be enforced by the plod with non-compliance meaning on the spot fines of £60.
> 
> Already the country is dividing into two camps - those who think this is great news and those who think it's utter nonsense. I tend to agree with the latter group more (for reasons, lack of evidence, virus is 80-120 nm making cloth masks useless etc).
> 
> Either way it's going to an interesting social experiment into public behaviour. How many will comply, how many will refuse? The police are objecting saying they have better things to do than enforce this, like fighting crime.
> 
> I've bought a crap Chinese bandana for the 24th because I wasn't keen on strapping what looks like a sanitary towel across my face.
> 
> Let's see how this kicks off. h34r:


Got to agree with you. This whole thing is starting to do my head in.

It really is starting to look like a fascist experiment to see just how far they can push / get away with before the final clamp down.

A couple of years ago we came back to the uk from NZ because we could go anywhere in Europe. Then Brexit?

I lost. I was very quickly over it. Just get on with it so I know what I'm dealing with.
That wasn't happening quickly.

We were planning a buying a motor home and just setting off anyway on the basis that we would make whatever work.

Now this

Was jst thinking maybe we should buy a boat and just sail off over the horizon to somewhere with a minimal Population like Patagonia and the rest of the world can just go and get ******


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## Tag

Thirty miles from us is West Lafayette Indiana and Purdue University. Purdue university and the city of West Lafayette are mandating mask.In West Laf it’s a $100.00 fine the first time without a mask, and $500.00 for everyone after that. The price of beef has risen quite a bit, but other foods are reasonable. Spray disinfectant is really scarce. Hope everyone stays safe


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## Griffo

spewing said:


> Griffo said:
> 
> 
> 
> So how's it goin' in your neck of the woods ..?
> 
> In the UK the Government has made the wearing of face coverings in shops and other enclosed places mandatory from the 24th.
> 
> Face covering has a broad definition; face masks, bandanas, yer wife's panties. Whatever you like really, provided it's covering your face. This is going to be enforced by the plod with non-compliance meaning on the spot fines of £60.
> 
> Already the country is dividing into two camps - those who think this is great news and those who think it's utter nonsense. I tend to agree with the latter group more (for reasons, lack of evidence, virus is 80-120 nm making cloth masks useless etc).
> 
> Either way it's going to an interesting social experiment into public behaviour. How many will comply, how many will refuse? The police are objecting saying they have better things to do than enforce this, like fighting crime.
> 
> I've bought a crap Chinese bandana for the 24th because I wasn't keen on strapping what looks like a sanitary towel across my face.
> 
> Let's see how this kicks off. h34r:
> 
> 
> 
> Got to agree with you. This whole thing is starting to do my head in.
> 
> It really is starting to look like a fascist experiment to see just how far they can push / get away with before the final clamp down.
> 
> A couple of years ago we came back to the uk from NZ because we could go anywhere in Europe. Then Brexit?
> 
> I lost. I was very quickly over it. Just get on with it so I know what I'm dealing with.
> That wasn't happening quickly.
> 
> We were planning a buying a motor home and just setting off anyway on the basis that we would make whatever work.
> 
> Now this
> 
> Was jst thinking maybe we should buy a boat and just sail off over the horizon to somewhere with a minimal Population like Patagonia and the rest of the world can just go and get ******
Click to expand...

It's the first time I've genuinely felt like I'm living in some sort of dictatorship - which saddens as much as it angers me. The UK has always worked on the principle of consent; which until recently was to encourage the wearing of face masks. I was perfectly ok with this.

Now we are being told we must under threat of punishment. You're right, where does it end?

I'm hoping for plenty of wilful dissent over the wearing of face coverings. I expect there will be when it becomes apparent the police do actually have better things to do.

Not quite ready to leave the country yet, but yes, the UK should be and is better than this. Boat to Patagonia does sound like a plan though!


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## Quercusuber

I'll sum it up for ya, Griffo:










Cheers ...Q


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## Griffo

There's a whiff of manure about it, for sure.

The problem we have is high street shops remain largely empty of customers post-lockdown. Which is bad for our economy.

So how to make customers feel safe to go shopping outside again? Make everyone wear face coverings is the answer the Gov't has come up with.

Doesn't matter cloth face coverings won't stop aerosol transmission. Ignore that bit. Just subjugate the masses and get them bloody spending again!


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## Sean Khan

Virus? What virus?









The recovery rate is now more than the infection rate. Each person is now statistically infecting less than 0.8-0.7 people.

Meanwhile, the Foreign Minister, is getting better after blood plasma therapy.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1568969/fm-qureshi-discharged-from-hospital-after-10-days-following-covid-19-treatment

Last Thursday, the foreign minister had dispelled rumours about his health after *his Wikipedia profile was edited to falsely reflect that he had 'died' on July 4*, saying "there was no truth to them" and that he was "doing well".

In a statement, Qureshi had said that "mischievous" elements had edited his profile on the site. "Many complications were created, and it caused distress to my loved ones and family members," he said.

:banana: Wikipedia..... :banana:


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## treefork




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## Griffo

Latest research from the Office for National Statistics in England say:

Our latest estimates indicate that from 22 June to 5 July 2020, an average of 14,000 people in England had the coronavirus (COVID-19). *This equates to 0.03% of the population in England* or around 1 in 3,900 individuals.

and

During the 14-day period from 22 June to 5 July 2020, there were an estimated *two new COVID-19 infections for every 10,000 individuals per week in the community population in England.*

I'm not a fan of dry statistics, but clearly the chances of contracting the virus in England are now low. Around 1 in 5000 if my interpretation is correct.

I think my toaster is probably more of a risk. :what:


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## Sean Khan

> clearly the chances of contracting the virus in England are now low.


Perhaps. But it is still lurking about.... can't take any chances.

It'll be a shame to be done in by some idiot who never took precautions and basically gave themselves the virus.

I refuse to be killed by an idiot.

The Govt is thinking of opening all the schools in a month or two. All the good work will go down the drain, I expect.

Meanwhile, it seems the muggers are getting more and more desperate, thanks to this virus. Never saw THIS happen before.


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> clearly the chances of contracting the virus in England are now low.
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps. But it is still lurking about.... can't take any chances.
> 
> It'll be a shame to be done in by some idiot who never took precautions and basically gave themselves the virus.
> 
> I refuse to be killed by an idiot.
Click to expand...

There's no perhaps about it, the epidemic in the UK is well past its peak and the chances of contracting the virus are low.

The precautions we are being told to take - to wear face coverings - are to give confidence to people still too scared to go outside. And in any case do nothing to protect against aerosol transmission of the virus.

Fortuantely I can still make a pragmatic and rational decision on the level of risk involved. Nothing idiotic abut this. :screwy:


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## Sean Khan

I'm not calling you an idiot... I'm just saying the chance may be lower than before but it's not zero.

My chance of catching it is lower than yours. But I still take precautions and am keeping away from idiots.

What is my definition of an idiot? Someone who runs a business and does not care about Standard Operating Procedures for their workers and partners.

I delivered a shipment to a partner a few days back and he invited me to come inside out of the sun, into his air-conditioned office and have a cup of tea.

1. I don't know whose bum that cup of tea came out of. Thanks but I'll do without.

2. It's safer to enjoy the sun than breathe recirculated air. There was no spike in US after all those protests because they happened out on the street... not in some air-conditioned office.

3. An no, I did not shake his hand. He took offense. Boo hoo.

4. He already got a guy in his family killed by the virus. So I know his practices aren't right for the times.

From what I've seen, people who are religious and want to pray in a mosque even though praying at home is just as fine, get it. Those are idiots.

Cops are also idiots. I don't know what they are doing to each other but they seem to be getting it right left and center. They must be doing something besides the usual standing around with their thumbs up their rears. I just can't figure out WHAT.

The people who don't deserve to get it are the medical workers. So I have not visited my dentist for my yearly teeth cleaning.

Need to keep eyes open. Risk may be lower but you can still get sucker-punched.



> And in any case do nothing to protect against aerosol transmission of the virus.


Have to disagree with you there. Masks work in slowing down the spread. They worked in China. They work in Pakistan. If your masks don't work, you got defective masks.

Yes, the virus can still get you even if you are wearing a mask... you can also impregnate a woman while wearing a condom... accidents happen.

Yes, it is also to make people feel better. But it is not totally useless.

Oh and I haven't ordered food since this thing started. And won't until we get our first vaccine (yes, it's on the way). I won't even order pizza.. well I make excellent pizzas myself... won't even order a cheese-burger until 2021 is well under way.

When they had bird-flu I stopped having chicken corn soup for more than a year. Had to make my own.


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> I'm not calling you an idiot... I'm just saying the chance may be lower than before but it's not zero.
> 
> My chance of catching it is lower than yours. But I still take precautions and am keeping away from idiots.
> 
> What is my definition of an idiot? Someone who runs a business and does not care about Standard Operating Procedures for their workers and partners.
> 
> I delivered a shipment to a partner a few days back and he invited me to come inside out of the sun, into his air-conditioned office and have a cup of tea.
> 
> 1. I don't know whose bum that cup of tea came out of. Thanks but I'll do without.
> 
> 2. It's safer to enjoy the sun than breathe recirculated air. There was no spike in US after all those protests because they happened out on the street... not in some air-conditioned office.
> 
> 3. An no, I did not shake his hand. He took offense. Boo hoo.
> 
> 4. He already got a guy in his family killed by the virus. So I know his practices aren't right for the times.
> 
> From what I've seen, people who are religious and want to pray in a mosque even though praying at home is just as fine, get it. Those are idiots.
> 
> Cops are also idiots. I don't know what they are doing to each other but they seem to be getting it right left and center. They must be doing something besides the usual standing around with their thumbs up their rears. I just can't figure out WHAT.
> 
> The people who don't deserve to get it are the medical workers. So I have not visited my dentist for my yearly teeth cleaning.
> 
> Need to keep eyes open. Risk may be lower but you can still get sucker-punched.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And in any case do nothing to protect against aerosol transmission of the virus.
> 
> 
> 
> Have to disagree with you there. Masks work in slowing down the spread. They worked in China. They work in Pakistan. If your masks don't work, you got defective masks.
> 
> Yes, the virus can still get you even if you are wearing a mask... you can also impregnate a woman while wearing a condom... accidents happen.
> 
> Yes, it is also to make people feel better. But it is not totally useless.
> 
> Oh and I haven't ordered food since this thing started. And won't until we get our first vaccine (yes, it's on the way). I won't even order pizza.. well I make excellent pizzas myself... won't even order a cheese-burger until 2021 is well under way.
> 
> When they had bird-flu I stopped having chicken corn soup for more than a year. Had to make my own.
Click to expand...

None of which is idiotic either. There is still risk and it wouldn't be sensible to behave as if there were none. Social distancing, frequent hand washing, self-isolation if you present with symptoms, these are things everyone should still be doing. Of course that is sensible.

However your personal sliding scale of risk aversion may (does) differ from mine. Which isn't unusual.

Face masks don't prevent aerosol transmission of covid-19, there is nothing to disagree with here without being wrong! 

The possibility of aerosol transmission (virus particles suspended in the air) is the reason some choose to wear a mask. Does nothing. Look at the suits virologists wear.

For droplet transmission, the science is incomplete, but it is worth noting the outcomes in other countries. What I've noticed is when someone coughs it's like tossing a frag grenade, tends to clear a space very quickly.

I've got a cheap-*** bandana. If it helps to make other people feel safer, I'll wear it. I'm just not under any illusions about the level of protection it really affords.


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## Sean Khan

> I'm just not under any illusions about the level of protection it really affords.


Masks are not for you. They are for the ones with the virus but don't know it yet.


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> I'm just not under any illusions about the level of protection it really affords.
> 
> 
> 
> Masks are not for you. They are for the ones with the virus but don't know it yet.
Click to expand...

Asymptomatic people, no coughing, no droplet transmission.

If you are so close to someone they are spitting on you as they talk, probably stand a bit further back.

They will be breathing. So aerosol transmission, maybe. But masks don't work for this.


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## Sean Khan

> But masks don't work for this.


Even if they work 10% and are 90% useless, it'll have a braking effect on mass infection rates.

And they are certainly more effective than 10%.

I get it... you look like George Clooney and don't want to spoil it by wearing a mask.

Well I look like Keanu Reeves and I have no problem wearing one.

Is your Prime Minister wearing a mask these days? He got clobbered good... has he learnt something? Or he is having a panic reaction of some sort?



> Asymptomatic people, no coughing, no droplet transmission.


Asymptomatic people are often "super-spreaders". How does that happen, ever wonder?

Wearing masks also stops you from touching your face as often as one normally might just like wearing pants stops people from wanking off in public transport.


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## Griffo

More Jason Statham than Clooney. We share the same haircut and.. erm.. not much else.

Goin' to have to agree to disagree, Sean. Because I've got food to cook. Important stuff.

Looks like the makers of face masks are covering their backsides in case they get sued. Hmmm..


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## wll

treefork said:


>


Oh my god, that is great.

I live in the country of Kalifornia, we are not allowed free speech unless CNN, MSNBC, says you can say that. ----- did i just say anything racist, If I did I'm sorry !

wll


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## Tag

I remember the HIV crisis.


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## Tag

If you’re having a bad day, watch a soap opera‍♂ the term soap opera came from radio telecast and was sponsored by soap manufacturers. I see why, because most of them should wash their mouth out with soap


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## urbanshooter

This pandemic isn't going away anytime soon. The statistics are a comfort (but it is also likely under-reported/massaged numbers, not to mention it is dependent on testing numbers - testing is a costly affair and governments seem reluctant to commit fully to wider testing). While we don't overestimate our chances of contracting it or be overtaken with fear we shouldn't trivialize it either. Life has to go on with sensible precautions - kids need schooling, businesses need income, people need to have jobs and the last thing governments want is for the economy to fail, the ripple effects will be catastrophic (unless the agenda is one where failure of capitalism and government is what's desired). A vaccine may be just around the corner but so far, I understand they can't seem to get it to last longer than 4 months and it's not going to be practical (until they iron out this kink). So, we are not getting to herd immunity anytime soon (though we might try for ring immunity)... and then there are anti-vaxers...

We may not be in the percentage of people that have contracted it and we shouldn't be insensitive and cavalier or imply that those who choose to take precautions are not as smart as we are because oh, we know better? Try saying that to people who have had it or those with family that have contracted it. And I know people that have had it btw and it's not something to be trivialized.

Meanwhile, second waves are hitting in places already... Don't underestimate the stupidity and selfishness of human nature.

Anyway... Are Avinor or Tag, or anyone here for that matter even real people? I have never met anyone I know that have actually laid eyes on Tag or Avinor or any member here. So it seems that since I can't verify for a fact that they are real, I can scientifically conclude that they - all of you - just don't exist. I mean, that's a fact and it matters! You must all be fake people. I am probably writing with an AI bot here!

Okay, I have wasted enough time here already... back to work (I actually have a job)... Yeah, the fake Covid-19 numbers where I am have come down to a very small fake number. Enough so that we can stop fake staying at home to come out and fake it at work so we can make some real money for our fake lifestyles... The slingshots I can buy are all real enough though... at least I think they are?


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## robbo

where going well in Queensland Australia but victoria have had another outbreak,in the long run the world will have to keep spinning. and those that fall of do and the ones that hold on dont really need to be fit young healthy and strong just very luckyyyyyyyyyyyyy take care everybody.just be a realist, even if they made a vaccine tommorrow, they wont be able to make enough and distrubute it quick enough


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## Griffo

We've seen local spikes in some northern towns and cities; Leicester, Blackburn, Burnley.

The common theme is these towns and cities have a high percentage of families from an Asian background who, compared to the national average, tend to live in larger extended family groups under one roof. Which would facilitate the spread of the virus.

It's the elephant in the room few are prepared to discuss for fear of being shouted down as racist. Unfortunately.

On selfishness: I've seen very little of this, the stripping of supermarket shelves being the worst of it.

Altruism, kindness, and bravery, I've seen plenty of however. The irony isn't lost on me the thing which has kept us apart - the virus- has in many ways brought us closer together.


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## Sean Khan

> Are Avinor or Tag, or anyone here for that matter even real people?.... just don't exist.... must all be fake people. I am probably writing with an AI bot here!


Whaaaat???

I just took a selfie and saw a face looking back at me. I must be real.

Or else that is someone else in my house and I am about to be robbed.


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## Sean Khan

> from an Asian background


Hmmmm.... Leicester is mostly Indian.... 72,033 people (25%).. Pakistanis are only 1.5%.

Blackburn... Pak 4.4%.. Indians 4.2%.

Burnley.... Pak 2.8%... Indians 0.2%.

I'll pretend you meant Indians. Or some other gawd forsaken Asian... Bengali, Sri Lankan, etc...



> it is also likely under-reported/massaged numbers


Can't hide the death rates. Issuing a death certification is a legal requirement and can't be faked or done away with. And the spike in dead people tallies with the expected increase due to the virus.


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> I'll pretend you meant Indians. Or some other gawd forsaken Asian... Bengali, Sri Lankan, etc...


Precisely the reason why it is the elephant in the room. Because as soon as something is pointed at which relates to race - in this case how families live - someone is bound to get upset (not you), or worse shout racist!

But yeah, I take your point. Asian is a term for a large number of ethnic groups and was too non-specific for the point being made.

Some of the lockdown measures in Leicester are now being eased. The lockdown also shone a light on Leicester's dirty secret of sweat shops paying less than minimum wage to employees. Slave labour was also mentioned.


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## urbanshooter

Sean Khan said:


> from an Asian background
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmmm.... Leicester is mostly Indian.... 72,033 people (25%).. Pakistanis are only 1.5%.
> 
> Blackburn... Pak 4.4%.. Indians 4.2%.
> 
> Burnley.... Pak 2.8%... Indians 0.2%.
> 
> I'll pretend you meant Indians. Or some other gawd forsaken Asian... Bengali, Sri Lankan, etc...
> 
> 
> 
> it is also likely under-reported/massaged numbers
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Can't hide the death rates. Issuing a death certification is a legal requirement and can't be faked or done away with. And the spike in dead people tallies with the expected increase due to the virus.
Click to expand...

Yup... I agree you can't hide death rates but you can misreport cause of death. If someone has not been tested positive, they don't get reported as a Covid-19 death. Also, not everyone dies from it.

For every case confirmed there is surely a percentage they don't find. I don't know what that percentage will be but I think it is reasonable to assume there are?

Where I am, our numbers have come down to mostly single digits and mostly tracked from individuals travelling in who are tested. This tells us that there are a lot more cases in those countries they came from that is reported. But numbers are based on testing and testing is a prompted sampling. We just dont know if enough testing is being done to catch the cases.

In Victoria, Australia, contact tracing often couldn't reveal where someone caught it from. This means it is already sporadic and there is no way to control the outbreak other than to lock-down again and that's rather unfortunate for their economy.

And of course I know you are a real person... I'm poking fun at the ridiculous logic of thinking this virus is not real simply because we don't know anyone with it


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## Sean Khan

> someone is bound to get upset (not you), or worse shout racist!


"Racist!" is only used for putting random Americans on the spot.... I find it funny as heck when I make the PC ones squirm.

Apart from that the word has no value. "Muslim" is not a race. "Pakistani" isn't a race either.


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## Tag

Whoa, this is I sent a PM to the person that doesn't know if I'm real. If possible please delete my replies.


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## Tag

Whoa this is a bunch of I sent a PM to the person that doesn’t know if I’m real. I’m totally sick of this He said She said. Damn I hate when I get pissed.


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## Sean Khan

> Asian is a term for a large number of ethnic groups and was too non-specific for the point being made.







:rolling:


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## Sean Khan

> Whoa this is a bunch of I sent a PM to the person that doesn't know if I'm real. I'm totally sick of this He said She said. **** I hate when I get pissed.


Dude... he was joking. :wave:


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## Tag

I'm sorry, but Im still pissed I'm just fed up with this whole deal. I still think you guys are great, So I will agree to disagree. My family does their best to protect ourselves, if that in turn protects others, then that's a bonus.

I think this post is a useful tool to get the truth of what's really going on in our world.

To me it's like talking about Alzheimer's. It's good to talk about It to help those being affected by this miserable disease, but not funny.

I hope this post stays on the Forum, and no I don't think it should change. I'm not reading it, or liking anyone's replies. We all have our rights, and mine is not to read it.


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## Tag

The forum member I sent a PM to replied and we got things straightened out. My bad‍♂ There was no excuse for my quick temper response. We can’t erase things every time there is a little glitch, that’s how we learn.


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## urbanshooter

Sean Khan said:


> someone is bound to get upset (not you), or worse shout racist!
> 
> 
> 
> "Racist!" is only used for putting random Americans on the spot.... I find it funny as heck when I make the PC ones squirm.
> 
> Apart from that the word has no value. "Muslim" is not a race. "Pakistani" isn't a race either.
Click to expand...

Calling someone a name or giving someone a label is an ad hominem attack and it usually comes from someone who doesn't want to deal with a debate or argument and decides to make it personal to diminish the other's points. I usually just try to ignore it. The facts usually speak for themselves and if it happens to cluster with a certain group of people, it just is. Not racist to discuss and highlight it so long as we use the language of fact... At least that's what we hope... Things have gotten a little crazy these days so I don't know anymore...

And I am sorry to anyone who thought I was seriously thinking anyone wasn't real... Isn't that ridiculous enough to know it can't be? I guess I was wrong to assume that someone would see through the tongue in cheek... my sincere apologies for making anyone feel offended. That was never my intention...


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## Sean Khan

Or it's a response to someone trying to put me in a box (give me a broad brush label). I put them in a box first.

Not to worry though. Box has plenty of breathing holes.


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## Sean Khan

Yup... I agree you can't hide death rates but you can misreport cause of death. If someone has not been tested positive, they don't get reported as a Covid-19 death. Also, not everyone dies from it.

I have heard of misreporting specially if the dead guy was asymptomatic and dropped dead without an obvious reason.

But testing has increased exponentially and they even test dead people now.

And the death rate was known statistically before the virus... we all know what caused the spike.

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> Asian is a term for a large number of ethnic groups and was too non-specific for the point being made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :rolling:
Click to expand...

Now you see if that comedy sketch was shown on British TV there'd be an absolute meltdown from the left. They'd be demanding people be fired, made to attend race education courses etc

This comedy sketch is from Little Britain (2003-2007).

David Walliams and Matt Lucas (the writers and performers) were pressured into making an apology last month. I found that ridiculous. It's comedy!


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## urbanshooter

Griffo said:


> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asian is a term for a large number of ethnic groups and was too non-specific for the point being made.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> :rolling:
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Now you see if that comedy sketch was shown on British TV there'd be an absolute meltdown from the left. They'd be demanding people be fired, made to attend race education courses etc
> 
> This comedy sketch is from Little Britain (2003-2007).
> 
> David Walliams and Matt Lucas (the writers and performers) were pressured into making an apology last month. I found that ridiculous. It's comedy!
Click to expand...

Hilarious  ...I don't know if anyone here remembers "Mind your Language" that old comedy series? ...Can't make TV like rhat anymore...


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## Sean Khan

urbanshooter said:


> I don't know if anyone here remembers "Mind your Language" that old comedy series? ...Can't make TV like rhat anymore...


True that. Unforgettable.

Sent from my SM-N9208 using Tapatalk


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## Griffo

Almost back on topic ..

The Queen with sword got pissed 'cos some bloody pensioner was walking on her lawn, about to charge the old geezer ..

Nope, she knighted him.

100 year-old Captain Tom Moore decided to do his bit during the pandemic by walking with frame sponsored laps of his garden. Each lap was 25m (82ft). It went viral. He walked 100 laps and raised £32 million ($40 million) for the National Health Service.

Much more than this Captain Moore raised the spirits of the nation and inspired others to think of ways to play their part - including me.

Now he's Captain *Sir* Tom Moore.

..doffing my cap in his direction.


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## Tag

While eating lunch I felt like someone was looking at me. I look over and my wife says “you proud of yourself‍♂“ I reply, I have posted my mouth gets me into trouble But to answer her question, “no Im not proud of myself” Here is where it turns on me “ She ask, did you learn anything” I reply probably not‍♂


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## Tag

The thing about this chaotic world is the uncertainty and the lack of working together, and the news media. Don’t know what to believe anymore. I keep as isolated as I can in my small group of friends and family. I was born in the 1950’s, and most, not all people worked together. I know several people today that their attitude is “I’ve got mine, F#&% you”


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## Griffo

urbanshooter said:


> Yup... I agree you can't hide death rates but you can misreport cause of death. If someone has not been tested positive, they don't get reported as a Covid-19 death. Also, not everyone dies from it.


The breaking news tonight here is the complete opposite.

Person A tests positive for covid-19.

Person A recovers from covid-19.

Person A is killed by car accident / falling space debris / clowns

Person A is recorded as a covid-19 death.

You couldn't make this up if you tried! Jeez :slap:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53443724


----------



## spewing

Probably way off topic but I've ben thinking about this all day

This probably isn't very PC but nothing is meant as an insult to anyone.



Griffo said:


> The common theme is these towns and cities have a high percentage of families from an Asian background who, compared to the national average, tend to live in larger extended family groups under one roof. Which would facilitate the spread of the virus.





Griffo said:


> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll pretend you meant Indians. Or some other gawd forsaken Asian... Bengali, Sri Lankan, etc...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Precisely the reason why it is the elephant in the room. Because as soon as something is pointed at which relates to race - in this case how families live - someone is bound to get upset (not you), or worse shout racist!
> 
> But yeah, I take your point. Asian is a term for a large number of ethnic groups and was too non-specific for the point being made.
> 
> Some of the lockdown measures in Leicester are now being eased. The lockdown also shone a light on Leicester's dirty secret of sweat shops paying less than minimum wage to employees. Slave labour was also mentioned.
Click to expand...

Due to the education system I went through in the late 70's / earl 80's I would have described anyone from the Indian sub continent as Indian rather than Asian. To my mind the Indian subcontinent would be made up of India, Bangladesh, Sri lank, Nepal and Pakistan.

Now Im well aware that there are two hundred million people on the north west of the Indian sub continent that want nothing to do with the name Indian (Probably 3 other countries on the list share the same opinion.

Anyway what I have spent the day contemplating is firstly how do these people self identify? And where do you draw the line?

North American / South American is obvious (possibly a bit blurred in the middle. Panama?)

Africa is pretty obvious (again how does Egypt identify)

The western border of Europe is obvious. Atlantic / Mediterranean coast but where do you draw the line to the East. Personally The Bosporus in Turkey with an at best ill defined line going north and i would include Moscow in the European zone but Ive met Russian soldiers from Moscow who were from military families and over the years had probably lived all over Russia who thought of Russia as a Pacific country.

Where does Asia start? Myanmar, Tibet? (although the Chinese would say that is China) and how far does it go? Australia, New Zealand? (although I would call that Austral Asia)

To the North / west of Pakistan you've got Afghanistan and Iran. Contries I would describe as Persian. Do Pakistanis identify as Persian? How would you describe Persia?


----------



## Tag

Just calling it as I see it. Went to the big box store to pick up items not in our small town. The store has the aisles marked with arrows pointing which way to go. We are meandering down the aisle and here comes two different carts headed our way. A young man maybe ten says "excuse me, but you are going the wrong way" The genius pushing the cart says, it's ok I'm an adult I told the young man he was correct, and the genius was disrespectful.

Before we leave the store we stumbled on another inconsiderate Huge man riding one of the stores electric carts. I refer to this man as huge, so you Will to understand where this is going. His butt and legs stuck out so far on each side that when a cart going the wrong way tried to pass the electric cart, the electric cart literally knocked off several jars of mayonnaise, breaking all of them. The man in the cart stated,, "oh well someone will clean it up" If this cart would have been abiding by the rules, the electric chair might not have hit the mayo. Or here's a thought, if one or the other would have stopped and let someone through‍♂

Make all the rules you want, if people don't follow them, then it's a free for all. At least we would know anything goes.


----------



## Tag

I did see everyone wearing a mask though. I'm not saying I agree with it, but for now Imall for trying to stop this


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## Tag

When I was a lot younger(I know Blah Blah Blah) things would not be run by a bunch of Mandy pansy’s. By that I mean you mess with the wrong guys and outside you would go.Been there done that Nowadays it’s, (I’ll call the police on you)


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## Tag

Nowadays we hear “Do you know who you are talking to Actually I do, should I speak slower and use toddler words.


----------



## Griffo

Great observation, reporting and conclusions, Tag. I enjoyed reading it. Mayo-gate?

@spewing. What you write is an intelligent musing on national self-identity but maybe also over-thinking a little. Perhaps there are answers to your questions.

I'm British, then English, then European, I think. :what:


----------



## Sean Khan

> the Indian subcontinent would be made up of India, Bangladesh, Sri lank, Nepal and Pakistan.


Correct.

I think there is also poor little Bhutan in there somewhere....



> there are two hundred million people on the north west of the Indian sub continent that want nothing to do with the name Indian


Also correct.

The joke is, "India" is the name taken from the Indus River.. which flows through Pakistan. :rofl:

So actually, WE are the real "India". The official name for cowdung land is "Bharat". Yes, really. "Bharat" is the name of India in their constitution.

However, we do not like being called Indian. And we like it even less if someone (Americans graduated from the George Bush school of geography) calls us "Middle Eastern". :banghead:



> how do these people self identify?


Same as a Scot (for example) will regard himself/herself as from the nation of Scotland. Sure they belong to the UK but they are not English. We are basically 5 completely different countries stuck together as "pakistan" with different languages, food, etc.

How do we self identify as far as the world is concerned? We are Pakistani, Asian (or South Asian). NOT Arabs (though many have Arab/Persian/Afgan genes.. we look different than the bloody people next door and are two inches taller).

I'm Semitic-Mongol-Greek. Maybe some Indian thrown in.

Real Indians are Indians... they are not as ethnically mixed as we are. The Subcontinent was always invaded from our direction... that's why.



> Where does Asia start?


From Japan to Pakistan. It ends at our borders with Iran. Iran is the "Middle East" (yes, I know that's Asia too technically but...).

In the north it goes as high as China, Mongolia. Kazakhstan and all those other "stans" are Central Asia.

South East Asia stops before Australia. We would love to call Aussies "Asian" but they would rather self-identify as European of some sort.



> Tibet? (although the Chinese would say that is China


There is no Tibet, correct. There will always be China.

India and USA can pretend "Tibet Tibet" all they want... can't change ground realities.



> Do Pakistanis identify as Persian?


Some do. I have a Persian name... which makes people think I am a Shia-Muslim.

I am not.

Our whole national anthem is in Persian... Urdu couldn't rhyme cleanly enough.

My family language was Persian when we arrived in the Subcontinent 800-900 years ago. We only changed it to Urdu like 100 years ago.



> How would you describe Persia?


Persia = Iran.

Great food. Idiot people. Run into the ground by the Mullahs.

Right now, they want to be our friends because they think we can save them with our nukes. Or some such thing.

If you are looking for the definition of the Persian Empire then more than half of Pakistan was "Persian" once. Not anymore thank goodness. I would like to keep some distance between them and us.


----------



## urbanshooter

Yeah... people like that are everywhere. Reminds me of the "Shopping Cart Theory". Basically, it is a litmus test of whether someone is a good member of society or a menace. Shopping carts should be returned or parked in a designated spot rather than abandoned. There is no punishment for failing to return it nor is there a reward (except for the coin operated ones). So individuals that do return them do so out of being genuinely considerate people. Recalcitrant people will not do it even when they are told to and oh, they'll have their reasons... civil rights, was in a rush, couldn't walk, someone else will pick it up etc... but the reasons don't excuse the behaviour...

It annoys the hell out of me when I come across inconsiderate individuals but I usually leave them alone unless they do something that directly inconveniences me, e.g. leave a cart directly in the path of my car... barring something like that, I have learned the hard way that its a waste of time engaging with selfish people that lack sense in the first place.


----------



## urbanshooter

Sean Khan said:


> the Indian subcontinent would be made up of India, Bangladesh, Sri lank, Nepal and Pakistan.
> 
> 
> 
> Correct.
> 
> I think there is also poor little Bhutan in there somewhere....
> 
> 
> 
> there are two hundred million people on the north west of the Indian sub continent that want nothing to do with the name Indian
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Also correct.
> 
> The joke is, "India" is the name taken from the Indus River.. which flows through Pakistan. :rofl:
> 
> So actually, WE are the real "India". The official name for cowdung land is "Bharat". Yes, really. "Bharat" is the name of India in their constitution.
> 
> However, we do not like being called Indian. And we like it even less if someone (Americans graduated from the George Bush school of geography) calls us "Middle Eastern". :banghead:
> 
> 
> 
> how do these people self identify?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Same as a Scot (for example) will regard himself/herself as from the nation of Scotland. Sure they belong to the UK but they are not English. We are basically 5 completely different countries stuck together as "pakistan" with different languages, food, etc.
> 
> How do we self identify as far as the world is concerned? We are Pakistani, Asian (or South Asian). NOT Arabs (though many have Arab/Persian/Afgan genes.. we look different than the bloody people next door and are two inches taller).
> 
> I'm Semitic-Mongol-Greek. Maybe some Indian thrown in.
> 
> Real Indians are Indians... they are not as ethnically mixed as we are. The Subcontinent was always invaded from our direction... that's why.
> 
> 
> 
> Where does Asia start?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> From Japan to Pakistan. It ends at our borders with Iran. Iran is the "Middle East" (yes, I know that's Asia too technically but...).
> 
> In the north it goes as high as China, Mongolia. Kazakhstan and all those other "stans" are Central Asia.
> 
> South East Asia stops before Australia. We would love to call Aussies "Asian" but they would rather self-identify as European of some sort.
> 
> 
> 
> Tibet? (although the Chinese would say that is China
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There is no Tibet, correct. There will always be China.
> 
> India and USA can pretend "Tibet Tibet" all they want... can't change ground realities.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do Pakistanis identify as Persian?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Some do. I have a Persian name... which makes people think I am a Shia-Muslim.
> 
> I am not.
> 
> Our whole national anthem is in Persian... Urdu couldn't rhyme cleanly enough.
> 
> My family language was Persian when we arrived in the Subcontinent 800-900 years ago. We only changed it to Urdu like 100 years ago.
> 
> 
> 
> How would you describe Persia?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Persia = Iran.
> 
> Great food. Idiot people. Run into the ground by the Mullahs.
> 
> Right now, they want to be our friends because they think we can save them with our nukes. Or some such thing.
> 
> If you are looking for the definition of the Persian Empire then more than half of Pakistan was "Persian" once. Not anymore thank goodness. I would like to keep some distance between them and us.
Click to expand...

Correct... I'll just add that the blanket term for Japanese, Korean, Chinese, Vietnamnese is usually "oriental"...

Asian, Oriental, Middle-Eastern are still identity lables though... they are just a little more obscure and afford the user of the term a wide-margin of error to identify someone rather than be educated and exposed enough to be able to tell the difference? Well, as you say, there are those that often mistaken Indians for Middle-Eastern all the time! So the lables are really for the benefit of those who can't tell the difference while simultaneously steering them away from applying the derogatory terms that exist and I won't quote...


----------



## Sean Khan

> So the lables are really for the benefit of those who can't tell the difference


The US military name for "random poor brown people we are bombing at the moment" is *Haji.  *

The joke is, they don't know the word doesn't mean what they think it means. (It means "Pilgrim")

No wonder America loses all it's wars. :rofl:

Had this ex-military idiot call me a Haji... I told him I not a pilgrim, dude.. nor am I Arab... he just couldn't get it. Mind locked shut in boot camp, I suppose.

Then curious, I researched the roots of this and found this:






Apparently, they grew up watching this cartoon and this character was called "Haji" who wore a Hindu turban and he... not sure what he did. He just did stuff. :banana: :banana: :banana:


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## Tag

The best thing I learned from Haji, was that it wasn’t the upside appearance that mattered it was what’s inside that counts.


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## Tag

Outside appearance‍♂


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## Tag

I’ve had friends pass away from drug overdose, and suicide from depression and drugs. The statement that I finally got my question answered was “They seemed so happy” The term “walk a mile in my shoes” says it all.


----------



## Tag

Walk a mile in my shoes. Elvis Presley


----------



## urbanshooter




----------



## Tag

There was this customer that goes in the 
parts store and walks up to the counter. Not realizing everyone but the one counterman had snuck off when they seen the disrespectful customer enter the store. The customer ask the counterman if there was anyone there that knew anything. The counterman replied "Yes" but they left when they seen you enter the store.


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## Tag

This is going to be ugly before it’s over. The city of west Lafayette and Lafayette are mandating everyone wear a mask as of 7-20-20. My wife takes her Mom out for a short ride and picks up our lunch. As she pulls up to the pickup lane she hears this couple (old enough to know better) tell the waitress they do not have to wear a mask, because it’s a free country. The waitress apologizes, and tells the couple it’s company policy. The couple start raising their voice, and my wife says (I wish my husband was here‍♂ ( The man hears her, and says “I’ll wait, go get him) My wife text me to tell me they are stopping by another store before heading home She looks at Mr. mouth and says he is on his way Mr. mouth says your husband is lucky, I have to go‍♂ Mouth was right, he probably would have beat me to a pulp


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## Tag

The mail carriers are drastically overwhelmed with extra mail since this Pandemic started. Rumors has it that no more overtime, so the mail not delivered in the mail carriers regular hours will go back to the post office and will be delivered the next day. Well how many days can they roll mail over. The ole snowball affect. If I was a betting man, I would say the heads of the post office will soon be politicians.


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## Tag

For those who carry our mail, Thank You. For those who make these stupid rules %&#% you


----------



## Tag

Depending on who’s telling the story, I don’t know who to believe. I am wondering if there would be something Im not seeing, if I spray the outside of a mask with a light coat of waterproofing. The companies put so many warnings on the containers that it’s safer to leave it at the store. I understand there are a lot of lawsuits over bull????


----------



## Tag

The one thing I've noticed getting worse is the wearing of mask requirement. People are already jacked up and then hot temperature is not helping. I've got friends on both sides, to wear a mask or not wear a mask. Here is what I tell them instead of arguing with them.

I used to ride motorcycles without a helmet, then our government leaders made it a law we had to wear them. We as motorcycle riders sent in our opposition to our leaders.We won eventually. Abate "American bikers aimed toward education " started giving classes on how to ride a motorcycle safely. My wife took this class so that if I got sick, she could ride the bike safely. I also took the class even though I had ridden for years. I found out just how much I didn't know.

A member of our abate had a minor injury, and it was determined that without his helmet things could have been a tragic outcome. We also have had people on bicycles have wrecks with and without helmets.

I personally have never had anyone have a wreck and say I'm glad I didn't have my helmet on.

To me it's like shooting a slingshot without safety glasses, and a lanyard. I may never need it, but after seeing RayShot Rays post I use lanyards and my regular glasses are safety glasses.

I've got a $100.00 bet with a friend that chooses not to wear a mask. If he (and I hope he doesn't) get the virus I'm betting he will say #%#%#% I should have worn a mask


----------



## Tag

We just found out my wife’s sister has a fever. She will have a test tomorrow. As much as I %#%#&%# her, I wouldn’t wish that on anyone


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## urbanshooter

Tag said:


> We just found out my wife's sister has a fever. She will have a test tomorrow. As much as I %#%#&%# her, I wouldn't wish that on anyone


This is a very awkward time to get sick... any fever, cough or cold symptoms sets alarms off. And masks also help to prevent a lot of common infections.

The rules are really simple. Wear a mask when out in public; keep your hands clean and don't touch your face; mind social distancing; and if you have been exposed or are sick - self-quarantine. Simple rules.

We were doing very well where I am with single digit cases only and most were imported. But just a few days ago a new cluster appeared, bumping us back into double digits. And the cluster appeared in an old folk's home. Some idiot came back from overseas, didn't self-quarantine and visited the home. How stupid is that? About half the people there are now positive and the first has died.

Then we also had picture going viral of someone wearing a quarantine wrist tag out in public, eating at a restaurant. She should have been home. Now this same person has admitted as sick. She is positive for Covid-19. Who knows how many more she has infected with her selfishness?

We also have a few asymptomatic cases detected through mandated random testing. These people have been wandering around and one of then is a teacher. Luckily, there hasn't been physical school classes yet...

Complacency, selfishness, ignorance and inconsiderate behaviour is what is going to prolong this... Check out the statistics below, you can go to the site yourself and comb through the details. It may not be 100% accurate but the indications are clear enough. This is real and you can probably correlate attitudes and societal cooperation to the case counts...

Last thing we want is to go into a second lock-down where we are and all we have to do is observe the rules but people are just too stubborn and recalcitrant....


----------



## Tag

I can't put it into words, but how can a person be so irresponsible, selfish, evil, disrespectful, to put others at risk.

the humidity is 97% and a friend was telling me the police were called to an incident where this parent left his kids in the car with no air conditioning. The police asked him why he left the kids in the car. He ran into the sporting goods store for just a minute. He didn't take the kids in because he didn't want to put them at risk for the virus.


----------



## Tag

Our schools are starting the 12th of August.


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## Tag

As I've. said before and Im sure I will say it again, thanks for sharing your thoughts on this pandemic. Our tv hasn't been on except for the kids shows when they are here. I can't imagine not having all of you to share the FUN things.


----------



## Tag

A friend of ours said his kids were so upset that their weekend camping trip has been canceled They live in the country with tall evergreen trees surrounding the property. I asked his kids why they didn’t camp in the back of their property. My friend said that was a good idea. He goes out and sets up a couple tents, and gets the campfire ready. He says it went really slow until closer to dark We have lots of Coyotes, which helped break the silence. The kids want to invite their friends over after this Pandemic is over.


----------



## Tag

You will not believe this I’m practicing keeping my big mouth shut I know it’s a far stretch of the imagination, but I did it. We are entering this big box store and they have it roped off so you have to go in one way I see this person walk up and go under the roped off section. I then hear a voice say, “you must have a mask and enter at this end of the roped off section. Here’s the best part, this person screams “ Why didn’t someone tell me” I’m serious, I kept my mouth shut, but I was laughing so hard, I had tears of joy running down my face.


----------



## Tag

Got up early to beat the heat so I could shoot a few targets before this oppressive heat kicks in. I made my coffee and then made the mistake of turning on the tv.(dumb habit) I came close to getting (Pi###d) , but instead I drank my coffee and thought of all the good things that are still happening.

The hand sanitizers and mask are becoming more readily available. People must be eating a lot more, because toilet paper is flying off the shelves but at least we have money to buy the food. 
I realize this situation is extremely difficult, but thanks to the Forum and close friends I'm able to find some peace. I look at the Forum like some people look at reading a book, it's my chance to escape harsh reality if only for awhile.


----------



## urbanshooter

Tag said:


> Got up early to beat the heat so I could shoot a few targets before this oppressive heat kicks in. I made my coffee and then made the mistake of turning on the tv.(dumb habit) I came close to getting (Pi###d) , but instead I drank my coffee and thought of all the good things that are still happening.
> 
> The hand sanitizers and mask are becoming more readily available. People must be eating a lot more, because toilet paper is flying off the shelves but at least we have money to buy the food.
> I realize this situation is extremely difficult, but thanks to the Forum and close friends I'm able to find some peace. I look at the Forum like some people look at reading a book, it's my chance to escape harsh reality if only for awhile.


Hang in there Tag! It gets better as we learn how to cope with the situation... Where I am the numbers are creeping up again and there are too many people that don't observe the SOP's... lot's of people are getting fined for not following the rules. We are going to make masks mandatory because people just can't self-govern. Quarantine centres are also re-opening as well because people just don't self-quarantine.

New cases are also being caught everyday from people coming into the country. Yet life has to go on so we just need to be careful.

If masks and sanitisers are available and if you are using them, it might be advisable to stock up sensibly. People tend to buy this stuff in spurts and it can be challenging to find it when we need it sometimes. We are running low on that again where I am but thankfully we have enough.

Also, it is possible to make your own sanitiser... lots of instructions everywhere... It's just isopropyl alcohol and distilled water or aloevera gel to a proportion of between 60% to 70% alcohol.

Stay safe and shoot your frames in good health!


----------



## Tag

Wish you the best also


----------



## Griffo

We're a few days into the mandatory wearing of face coverings inside enclosed spaces, like supermarkets and shopping malls.

In supermarkets there are recorded announcements reminding shoppers to follow Government guidelines and wear face coverings; there are also announcements saying (to paraphrase) 'if you see someone without a face covering, don't be a dickhead, because they may have medical reasons'.

I'm wearing a tie-dye bandana 'cos I'm edgy like that  And the cheapo face masks look like sanitary towels. No thanks.

I remain sceptical over the usefulness of face masks against the virus, but it's not a difficult thing to do. So I do. What I have observed is *so many* people fiddling with their face masks around their mouths and nose which fully negates any possible benefits. :slap:

Also in the UK, a pet cat has tested positive for coronavirus.

Caught form a human? Another cat? Cats in masks now? Meeow.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53552557


----------



## Tag

Well a couple big stores have backed up now and said they will not make their employees confront anyone whe doesn't wear a mask.


----------



## Tag

Well tempers are getting short due to COVID, hot weather and Assuming #%#% and the uncertainty of economics. While we were picking. up some things to help the nieces and nephews get started off to school as safe as possible. They are our world❤ My wife and I are standing in line to pay when this couple that live in the same town come up to us and the husband sarcastically says “must be nice to have money to buy school supplies for the whole family I reply that it’s not that we have a lot of money, it’s just that’s how we choose to spend what we can afford. I ask him if they got to go on vacation this summer. He replies they took their (really nice) camper out a few times, nothing big. I ask how much it cost to fill the truck with gas, and would one tank of gas make it the whole trip. He told me they would spend a couple hundred in gas for the truck and another couple hundred in the boat. I didn’t have the heart how much in beer I didn’t push the issue, because right now most people are dazed and confused


----------



## Griffo

Tag said:


> .. people are dazed and confused


My tie dye bandana face covering has been giving all the old hippies some monstrous druggy flashbacks today.


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## Tag

I should mention living in a small town has more positive than negatives, but the bad side is everyone knows practically everyone and they think they know everything about you. I have learned how to give them the ole take this.






. You know " pick a finger????????????????‍♂) they don't seem to get as upset as if I only use 1 finger.


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## urbanshooter

https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/2944635/

Check this one out...


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## Griffo

The world could do with a thinning out of population because there are too many of us, and the fairest way to do it would be oldest first and youngest last.

Oddly that's just how covid operates.

And no I don't entertain any idiotic ideas about the pandemic being planned, a conspiracy to reduce world population before all the food and resources run out.

But the uncomfortable truth is more dead people is a good thing for the living.

(with all respect and apologies to anyone who has been affected by the virus)


----------



## Tag

I like urban shooters post, a dose of reality once in awhile makes me appreciate Im as healthy as I am. Not to change the subject, but they didn't list Alzheimers. My deepest sympathy to anyone who has ever been affected by this horrific disease. 
Here I go again. I have a couple alcoholic friends that went through treatment, and I told them if and when they ever want to talk I'm here. 99.9% of the time we reminisce and make light of things. A friend of mine had an Uncle pass away, and every time my friend and I talk which unfortunately isn't often we bring up the same jokes his Uncle told. Example of his Uncles jokes He would ask how many reindeer pulled Santas sleigh people would answer 9. He then would say no, there were 10. Of course the kids would ask who was the 10th reindeer. He would answer OLIVE, the other reindeer‍♂ The joke never gets old (all the other reindeer)


----------



## Tag

All of the other reindeer ‍♂


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## Tag

Just because we find humor and positive thoughts about a bad situation, doesn't mean we don't care. The latest one on my favorite Mother in law was, she had to go for a full body scan. I told her since she was so little, they shouldn't charge her full price I also told her to smile for the camera. I text her ever morning to tell her I Love Her and if I don't add a funny statement, she thinks I'm upset.


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## Sean Khan

The army just got a new tank... but that's not the point.

The point is, the masks everyone is wearing plus standing at arm's length.






Compare this to what civilians do.

Just the other day, guy tried to enter a store without a mask. The guard did not allow him entry.... could've got the store shut down, all it would take is one picture sent to Twitter.

So this guy walks across the street and talks to another guard at another store who was his buddy... takes HIS mask.. puts it on and comes back.. "now let me in".

OK... everyone else might be safer around you but you... you piece of dog &*%*... you have a mask on your face that was on someone else's face 5 seconds ago. :banghead:


----------



## Tag

Wow that's not good


----------



## Tag

Oh have I got a story for you. There is a shortage of change in our area, not sure if it’s every where or just here. Anyway they say it’s due to the COVID virus. No one wants to handle cash. There is a huge supermarket that will take exact cash or credit card. If you pay for a bill of, let’s say $3.24 and you try to give them $4:00 they will not accept that. Instead you can give them $3.00 and use your credit card for the .24 cents. ‍♂ I’m betting the change is in people’s piggy banks, that’s not a shortage that’s hoarding.


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## Sean Khan

> not sure if it's every where or just here.


It's everywhere, mate. All over the world.

Since we don't smoke, we use the car ashtray as the piggy bank. And at home, I have this:

















It is really annoying, fishing out coins like you are homeless....

Fortunately, for online purchases, they have a "wallet". You put in the exact amount in your computer or phone ... no cash changes hands.


----------



## BushpotChef

Lol my topic got hijacked. Hi glad you lot are all still well and shooting lol stay safe fellas & shoot straight 

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Tag

Well here’s an idea they could round everything off to the dollar‍♂ Lower dollar. No, that wouldn’t be fair to the seller, let’s round it off to the higher amount, that way the store can give more In taxes which in turn will‍♂ @#&%@ I almost got upset again❤


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## Tag

This whole situation makes me past P#####d, I've already lived longer than a lot of my classmates, and you don't get an award for living longer. We do get to hopefully enjoy our friends and family, so that's the best prize. If I said what I would like to it would have to look like this ###### I know I always promote staying positive Staying positive also means I have to work harder and push through it.

I hope everyone stays safe and well.


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## spewing

Tag said:


> Well here's an idea they could round everything off to the dollar‍♂ Lower dollar. No, that wouldn't be fair to the seller, let's round it off to the higher amount, that way the store can give more In taxes which in turn will‍♂ @#&%@ I almost got upset again❤


In New Zealand everything is priced to the cent and that's what you pay if you pay by card.

However the smallest coin is 5 cents and if you pay cash it's rounded to the nearest 5 cents but it never seem to quite work right 
It really isn't a big deal for the individual but if your a big organisation with lots of people paying cash all those couple of cents are going to add up.


----------



## Tag

That sounds like our gas prices. For instance they will list it as $199.9 per gal you can bet who gets the extra. Like you said, it makes a big difference on their end.


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## Tag

As with many other issues in this world, we need to start with respect and add some manners. This customer came in the parts store slammed a battery on the counter rips off his mask and says “give me another battery, this one is a piece of ” of course the counterman can’t tell him to put the mask on, it might hurt his little bitty feelings A bad day on his part doesn’t give him the right to be upset with a counterman, that never Evan sold it to him. Let me back up, if the person who owned the vehicle would have some respect and manners, they might get their vehicle fixed a lot faster and not upset the mechanic. By the way this poor upset mechanic came back for an alternator. I’m so grateful for retirement.


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## Tag

We just found out our niece has contracted COVID-19. She is 21 years old. She was working as a waitress trying to pay for college.


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## Tag

My nieces symptoms are no taste, headache, aching and fever.


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Tag said:


> My nieces symptoms are no taste, headache, aching and fever.


So sorry to hear about your niece Tag, will keep all of y'all in my Prayers

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tag

Well here is the latest I heard from my niece on her daughter. She had everything that is associated with asymptomatic, but no shortness of breath. Now I’m not saying someone is full of &#f# but there are a lot of unanswered questions. She had a fever one day. I will say Mackenzie is in amazing physical shape.


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## Cjw

Hope she does well. I have a friend that got the COVID-19 and did really well. Even though he has asthma and diabetes and really over weight.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Tag

Thank you CJW


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## Sean Khan

Tag said:


> My nieces symptoms are no taste, headache, aching and fever.


Best wishes. Keep eating, no matter what.


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## Sean Khan

*Why Pakistan Is a Coronavirus Bright Spot*

Two months ago, the coronavirus seemed to be spreading out of control in Pakistan, a country of more than 200 million with a weak health-care system that was seemingly headed for disaster. It was being compared with Brazil, another developing country with a similar population size that has been ravaged by the disease.

*Instead, Pakistan has dramatically reversed course, recording a sharp decline in coronavirus cases and deaths, which are both down more than 80% from their peaks. Major hospitals report beds are freeing up in previously overflowing coronavirus wards, even in the nation's biggest and hardest-hit city, Karachi. The tally of patients on ventilators has halved over the past month.*

This is all happening as Pakistan's neighbours to the east and west-India and Iran-are still reporting that infection rates are climbing steadily.

















Pakistan locked its economy down in March, early on in its outbreak, which kept the virus from spreading widely while the population stayed home. But after restrictions were lifted in May, many Pakistanis celebrated the end of the fasting month of Ramadan with shopping sprees and visits to family.

That unleashed a burst of infections.

*The rapid spread jolted people into changing their behaviour, with more mask-wearing, hand-washing and maintaining social distance. The preventive messages increased from the government and public service campaigns. The prime minister also started wearing a mask in public. (sharp kick in the nuts is always helpful)*

The government switched to a strategy of targeted lock downs of local areas where a cluster of cases had arisen, sometimes just on one street.

Schools, wedding halls and restaurants remained closed. Long-distance travel is still restricted. But many previously closed businesses have re-opened:









From a peak of nearly 7,000 new cases of infection a day in June, on Friday the country reported 903 new cases. This week, Pakistan recorded its lowest death count in three months, with 27 on Friday.

So far, fewer than 6,000 people have died, with 278,000 recorded cases of infection. Brazil has about the same size population as Pakistan, but has reported more than 92,000 deaths and 2.7 million cases, according to Johns Hopkins University. At Pakistan's peak, which came in mid-June, major hospitals in big cities reported being overwhelmed. The highest number of patients to die in a day was 153, on June 20.

Modeling had predicted countries like Pakistan would broadly follow coronavirus trends seen in the West, producing some grim forecasts. A simulation from Imperial College London produced a worst-case scenario of 30,000 deaths a day in early August.

But Pakistan has some unique characteristics that have likely been helpful in beating the virus back, health experts say.

Just 4% of Pakistan's population is over 65-compared with 16% in the U.S. and 23% in Italy, according to United Nations data. The average age in Pakistan is 22, more than a decade younger than Brazil, and 25 years younger than Italy. *And there are no bars and nightclubs.* *There are also no institutionalized homes for the elderly, sites of deadly outbreaks elsewhere. *

*Not mentioned in this dumbed down article is that one third of Pakistan has B+ blood... the highest ratio of B+ blood group in the world. According to Chinese research, the virus hates B+ blood. *(meanwhile according to the US, everything Chinese is a lie :rofl: ) *Guess they were right.*

*The spy service is also targeting all our phones. If we go near a known source of infection, our phones are tagged and our movements are tracked. This method was used to track terrorists **(with great success) **and now we use it track COVID-19. **(any other country will yell "threat to privacy!")*

*The virus also did not evolve to protect itself under a Monsoon storm rainy hot climate. It just can't take that kind of abuse. It might come back. But now we know what to do.*

*Oh and British Airways (always the first to run away) is resuming flights. British Airways is our "canary in a coal mine". If they think it's OK then it's OK for sure.*


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## Tag

Well for right now our school corporation is starting school on the 12th of August. I completely understand the concerns of anyone who has or knows of a student returning to school. The unknowns of this pandemic is mind boggling. I wish the best to everyone


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## Tag

A positive side to the mask. A friend of mine just text me and said she was in a clothing store getting her son clothes for school. She paid the bill and when she got outside she checked her bill. They gave her Senior citizens discount She goes back in to let them know that she wasn’t that old. They thanked her for her honesty and let her keep the discount.


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## Tag

Tempers are running short. No one knows who’s pitching and who’s catching. Respect is a thing of the past. We have several friends in the medical field, and whoever the powers to be have it so messed up. The powers to be should listen to the nurses and others on the floor.


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## Tag

A coin shortage ‍♂ my A## Coin hoarders maybe. I rolled up a couple dollars I could find around the house and took them to the bank to cash in. I asked the teller if they were having trouble keeping coins. She said, heck no they told a few people and the piggy banks were emptied and cashed in. It’s amazing how when we all work together things get better a lot easier and faster.


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## Tag

I told the teller Common CENTS still works‍♂


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## Bellman

Not to make light of things, but this picture makes me happy.....and it's probably true????.....race gas and castor oil are good for whatever ails you ????.

Charles


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## Sean Khan

She clearly spent all her money on making that poster... didn't have any left to fix her pants... which are falling down.


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## Sean Khan

Lock-downs ending. Virus gone (almost). More traffic on roads.


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## Tag

Congratulations on things getting better. Great video


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## Tag

My wife and I stopped at burger restaurant and this guy made my day There are two lines that order every other person. Well I order and pull up, I hear this old guy yelling at a car in the other order lane. So finally the innocent car lets the old guy ahead of them. I pull over in the one of the spots where you wait if your food is taking longer than usual. The old guy pulls up to get his food, but he is in the wrong position. He then yells at the poor employee, the employee motioned him over to the waiting area. The next few cars in line give him a honking send off. I love Karma


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## SJAaz

Man this Arizona virus is going nuts here. Either that or they are testing more. I strongly suspect that half the people here had it didn't know it. I'm wondering if life will ever get back to normal... which was goofy enough to suit me.


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## BushpotChef

My son's mother quit her job yesterday after being literally screamed at by a customer because there wasn't enough gravy on her mashed potatoes. Apparently, this was 'her time out' during 'all this nonsense' & asked if she was trying to annoy her or if she was 'just born stupid'.

She filled out her 2 weeks form in the back while suppressing tears & left. My take away is this virus is turning people into even worse pieces of s#it then they were before.

So yeah - let's try to be kind to one another...

Thank God for this forum. 

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


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## Sean Khan

> Congratulations on things getting better. Great video


Thanks. That video was made in April... when this virus thingy just starting to get serious. Towns became Ghost Towns. But now traffic is getting better all the time. Right now it's getting better than what can be seen in that video. This video is recent:






Watching traffic drone videos is a good way to judge if your city is getting back to normal, I think.


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## BushpotChef

Sean Khan said:


> Congratulations on things getting better. Great video
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. That video was made in April... when this virus thingy just starting to get serious. Towns became Ghost Towns. But now traffic is getting better all the time. Right now it's getting better than what can be seen in that video. This video is recent:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Watching traffic drone videos is a good way to judge if your city is getting back to normal, I think.
Click to expand...

Didn't know you'd gotten sick, glad you're on the mend brother stay healthy 

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## Sean Khan

> Didn't know you'd gotten sick


What???

I never said I was sick. :rofl:

I was talking about the cities, the country, the virus... generally.

But thanks for the wishes. I did need them a while back.

I did come down with something back in January.. or was it December...? I believe it was a version of the Corona virus. It was very mild and lasted a few days. A week ago I came down with it again (headache, fever, throat, whatnot) but it was gone in 24 hours.... you'll notice I didn't stop posting here.

I can't get this bloody virus to stick in me... too many anti-bodies and B+ blood group. :bouncy:

The virus .. for me personally... is not an issue. I am immune (until the bloody thing mutates again).

But the lock-downs were a pain, is all.

Oh... and how did I get the virus, despite taking all precautions and not shaking hands and wearing masks and keeping my distance???

I believe there are two possible sources in my case:

*1. I picked up the morning paper and forgot to wash my hands.*

*2. The Nestle drinking water delivery guys... must have been on the change I got when I paid them. It was so trivial I didn't wash my hands after handling that change. Being in your own house gives you a false sense of security.*

So be careful. Shoot the paper guy and water guy when you next see them, if they are not wearing gloves.


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## BushpotChef

Sean Khan said:


> Didn't know you'd gotten sick
> 
> 
> 
> What???
> 
> I never said I was sick. :rofl:
Click to expand...

Sorry brother had something stuck to my beer goggles LOL

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## wll

Well I live in Lancaster, CA. a city in Los Angeles County where most of the folks have either lost their brains or are on drugs. This is the only city in the world where you can get a degree in stupidity ! So far I go to the market once a week or so, stay away from everybody I can, I always wear a mast.

Most of my outdoor activities are shooting a slingshot by myself and writing stuff for this forum. At work we have just five guys that have families and are very careful who they hang around, they too always wear a mask.

This thing is no joke !

wll


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## Sean Khan

> Sorry brother had something stuck to my beer goggles LOL


Quite alright... I was sick but not sick sick. Not sick enough to matter in any way.

But can I spread the virus right now?

Don't know.

I hope not.


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## Tag

Our niece has recovered from Covid-19 and is spending an extra few das in quarantine. Thankfully she didn’t have the respiratory issues. Only time will tell if there is any permanent issues.


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## Sean Khan

> Only time will tell if there is any permanent issues.


If she has recovered in less than 2 weeks, there will not be any permanent issues. Relax.


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Good news Tag, hope she'll be fine

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tag

We are hoping Sean


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## Tag

Thank you sling n shot


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## Hulla Baloo

When it comes to rural, our county is among the ruralest. So, the people have been mostly spared. We found a squirrel with a bad case however. I fashioned a respirator using the carburetor from my weed whacker and some clean tubing. Fed him honey and lemon for two weeks before he was strong enough to digest nut butters. He lost some weight but has recovered. My wife made him a mask out of some Homer Simpson material- she's a quilter.


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## Tag

Lack of respect, absolutely no common sense, Narcissistic pieces of #&# and this election. The domino effect, they talk about drives me crazy. I’m watching our Governor talk about keeping a safe distance, like at social gatherings. I respect this gentleman, but please common sense. Ok, the kid goes to school, practices all safety regulations and then goes home. He feels safe at home, but actually he doesn’t know who his family has been in contact with. So it’s possibly he takes it to school. I’m not saying they are wrong, But please use common sense


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## Tag

I guarantee if I was a teenager, my car would stall on a country road to smooch. My girlfriend.


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## Tag

The Governor just said that the plan B will be used if needed. Virtual class rooms.


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## Tag

Leave no child behind is a nice thought. I know of several people that cannot afford a iPad or laptop, let alone internet. Unfortunately I know of illiterate parents that do not have the ability to care for their kids. I’m not sure what the answer is, but I feel it’s better to invest in our youth now than later in life when they are filling our prisons.


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## Tag

Our 21 year old niece (different one) went to school last Thurs. she just text us to let us know a senior on her volleyball team was in contact with a person with covid. Last night our niece came down with a fever and headache. They are testing the whole team. I’m not trying to depress anyone, nor am I spreading gossip.


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## Sean Khan

Large scale vaccinations about to start. There is enough available to vaccinate one-fifth of Pakistan's population.

Researchers have said that Sinopharm's coronavirus vaccine candidate appeared to be safe *and triggered antibody-based immune responses* in early and mid-stage trials.


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## Griffo

The new most-important metric for European countries is covid-19 cases per 100,000 of population.

This is the figure UK Gov't has been using to determine if travel to other European countries is advisable or requires quarantine of two weeks on return to the UK.

France is the latest to be added to list of bad places to be by the UK Gov't. Holidaying Brits in France tried to flee home before a 4am cut-off this morning, some even hiring private light airplanes to get back to blighty.

The figure for the UK is 19.8 cases per 100,000. Germany is 15.9, France is 36.2, Spain 115.7.


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> Large scale vaccinations about to start. There is enough available to vaccinate one-fifth of Pakistan's population.
> 
> Researchers have said that Sinopharm's coronavirus vaccine candidate appeared to be safe *and triggered antibody-based immune responses* in early and mid-stage trials.


That's a Chinese vaccine dude. I'm no anti-vaxxer but made in china .. think they may want you to see if it actually works?

The worldwide race for a proven vaccine is a hot one because it's going to be a huge money maker. Bigger than the wheel.


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## Tag

He said She said They said now the local news media is saying gaiters and bandanas could possibly be more harmful than beneficial. I’m all for helpful information, but this is another don’t eat eggs, they raise cholesterol‍♂


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## urbanshooter

Griffo said:


> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Large scale vaccinations about to start. There is enough available to vaccinate one-fifth of Pakistan's population.
> 
> Researchers have said that Sinopharm's coronavirus vaccine candidate appeared to be safe *and triggered antibody-based immune responses* in early and mid-stage trials.
> 
> 
> 
> That's a Chinese vaccine dude. I'm no anti-vaxxer but made in china .. think they may want you to see if it actually works?
> 
> The worldwide race for a proven vaccine is a hot one because it's going to be a huge money maker. Bigger than the wheel.
Click to expand...

According to medics I know (quite a few friends and family), it's not the safety of the vaccines that are doubtful at this point but the efficacy. While, they do suceed in "triggering an immune response" (every press release says that), the question is, in how many? 50%? 70%? And for how long? We don't really know till stage 3 trials are over... If they can get to stage 3, if I am not mistaken, the question of safety should have already been addressed - at least to the point of what can be reasonably anticipated through animal testing, which still leaves a small risk for unforseen reactions. At stage 3 they track side effects administering to humans. So it's human guinea pigs.

Honestly, Pakistan might be willing Stage 3 test subects but if it were me, I'd also want to wait and see. Still... Thank you, Pakistan for being test subjects!

Me, I'll just stay safe, be careful. There are now Chinese, Sino-Chinese, Russian, Israeli, US & UK among other vaccine options in the race as well as antibody treatments being developed (not vaccines but they should be cures for early onset)... The answer is around the corner... but the earliest - if it works - is still sometime next year...

An yes! It's gonna be a lucrative one to crack... my worry now is that things might get so politically muddled we might never get what we should but we can't talk about politics...


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## Sean Khan

> That's a Chinese vaccine dude.


Yes sir. Indeed it is.



> but made in china ..


In my experience, "Made in China" has always been an excellent choice.

And no, please don't point to some dumb product on Amazon.... I am talking of the good stuff.



> think they may want you to see if it actually works?


Oh, they/we already did that. *We tried it on 15,000 Arabs in Dubai* (these were the Stage 3 trials). It seemed to work.



> Thank you, Pakistan for being test subjects!


Life without some faith is like ice-cream without sugar.

There is *nobody out there *with as many B+ blood group as we have here. If not us, then who???

*And there are 8 vaccines on the way. This is only the first one.*

Actually, the first vaccine cleared for human use is a Russian vaccine called *Sputnik-5 *(notice the name... just trying to stick it to America...). But we are getting the Chinese one first. Not that I need it... I got plenty of antibodies of my own. :drinkup:

When this thing is finally over, I will get to eat out. I haven't eaten out all this year... not even a cheese-burger. Feel like a hermit....


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## Tag

, here in the States it’s a CLUSTER F#%#


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## SJAaz

Tag said:


> , here in the States it's a CLUSTER F#%#


Five star!


----------



## Sean Khan

https://www.geo.tv/latest/303069-foreign-mountaineering-team-undertake-season-s-first-climb-in-pakistan

*Foreign mountaineers undertake season's first climb in Pakistan after ease in virus curbs*

*As the country edges towards normalcy with a decline in COVID-19 cases reported, the first foreign expedition team of this summer has arrived in Pakistan to ascend a 6,500-metre high peak* in Shimshal Valley of Gilgit-Baltistan, a top official of Alpine Club of Pakistan (ACP) said on Sunday.

"The five-member outfit is led by renowned German climber Felix Berg," Karrar Haidri, Secretary ACP told _APP_.

According to Haidri the unnamed mountain was located in an open area of Shimshal Valley and was hitherto unclimbed.

"The Germans will be making its first-ever climb," he added.

*Haidri further said that since the outbreak of COVID-19 it is the first expedition of the year.*

"Some more European teams are expected to arrive in the next few days as the summer season is ending in September," he added.

Pakistan is home to five of the world's 14 tallest mountains (the eight-thousanders).

Besides that, more than 100 peaks above 7,000 metres and as many above 6,000 are located in Pakistan.

Every year, the country entices hundreds of climbers and trekkers from around the world, who aspire to scale its dangerous peaks. However, this year the impact of the pandemic has been devastating for mountaineering.

"Every year, several foreign mountaineering teams arrive in the country, which creates profitable jobs for hundreds of locals in Gilgit-Baltistan (GB). But this year, these people have suffered badly due to the pandemic," he said.

*"Hopefully, the situation will improve for our people as there is a significant drop in COVID-19 cases," Haidri added.*






Weird white people ..... :rofl:

But hey, they bring money to the local economy... who am I to complain?


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## Tag

I agree totally, I also wonder why people jump out of a perfectly good airplane‍♂ They also pay good money for this experience


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## Tag

Well People can say whatever they want, facts are facts, and rumors are bull S#&%$. We just got a text and our 13 year old freshman niece has high fever, headache, upset stomach. She has been practicing with the volleyball team at school, and school started 8-12-20. She will be tested for covid today.


----------



## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> That's a Chinese vaccine dude.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes sir. Indeed it is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> but made in china ..
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> In my experience, "Made in China" has always been an excellent choice.
> 
> And no, please don't point to some dumb product on Amazon.... I am talking of the good stuff.
Click to expand...

It's not the quality of the science but the nature of the Government which would give me reason for concern. I've read the reports for the phase 2 trial of the Chinese vaccine and they sound very promising. Applauded soundly.

But I'd be less sure of shooting up a vaccine from a country currently engaged in brazen genocide. Xi Jinping is going to have his fingers in it. :what:


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## Sean Khan

> a country currently engaged in brazen genocide


 :question: :question: :question:


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## Sean Khan

> She will be tested for covid today.


Hope it'll be okay.

Clinical data from China says that IF you have Covid and it starts with a headache, that is actually far better than one that doesn't have a headache. THOSE are dangerous.

And yeah... opening schools isn't a good idea in my opinion. Over here, the Govt is insisting they will re-open all the schools and colleges in a month or so. However there is a campaign running on the internet that asks parents not to send their kids to school even if the Govt sez it's OK. I hope most people will ignore the Govt.



> I also wonder why people jump out of a perfectly good airplane‍♂ They also pay good money for this experience


I believe there is only one sport on earth worth playing and that's Monopoly.


----------



## Sean Khan

ISLAMABAD: In a major development on Monday, the Drug Regulatory Authority of Pakistan (Drap) gave a nod to holding clinical trial of Covid-19 vaccine in the country.

As many as 200 volunteers from Karachi, representing various ethnic groups, have been registered. The trial will be completed in 56 days during which three injections of inactivated virus will be administered to the volunteers - both male and female.

One of the committee members, requesting not to be quoted, said: "The trial will commence from next week which will be participated by 200 volunteers, all over 18 years of age. We have selected volunteers from various ethnic groups to analyse their results. I believe Karachi is the most appropriate city as people from all backgrounds are settled there."

He said inactivated virus would be injected in each volunteer on zero day, day 28 and on the 56th day after which they would be tested for antibodies.

"An amount of Rs50,000 will be paid to each volunteer. After completion of the trial, we will move to other cities of the country," he added.

When asked about the side effects of the vaccine, the committee member said though its safety profile was very good, every medicine had a side effect in one per cent cases with mild fever, tiredness, headache or allergy.

------------------------------

*So if everything works out, in 2-3 months I will have my first cheese-burger this year.*


----------



## Tag

Our third niece had symptoms, but thank goodness the test came back negative❤


----------



## Tag

Our school district had a student that is covid positive on the school bus. They quarantined the student. The head mechanic was told to put a hazmat suit on and completely disinfect the bus.


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## Tag

Our second niece has tested positive for Covid-19. Our third niece tested negative but they are still going to quarantine her.


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## urbanshooter

A new strain known as D614G is going round now (you can do your own Googling)... It's apparently a lot more infectious but probably no more lethal than regular strains though it remains to be seen as they are just beginning to track data on this new strain. Concerns now are that the vaccines under development will not work with this new strain...

It is very apparent what our source of news is depending on the politically skewed things each person says. Mainstream media is no longer a reliable source of information. It's about narratives and click bait. Whatever one side says will be automatically opposed with individual smearing, bogus lawsuits and the craziness is on an all time high... And I'll say no more as I am circling the political discussion drain....

Stay safe everyone!


----------



## Sean Khan

> A new strain known as D614G is going round now


On Sunday, Malaysia's health ministry announced that D614G, a mutation of SARS-CoV-2 virus, has been detected in at least three of the 45 cases in a cluster that started from a restaurant owner *returning from India* and breached his 14-day home quarantine.

========

But of course.



> It's apparently a lot more infectious


Paul Tambyah, senior consultant at the National University of Singapore and president-elect of the International Society of Infectious Diseases, said evidence suggests the proliferation of the D614G mutation in some parts of the world *has coincided with a drop in death rates, suggesting it is less lethal.*

*"Maybe that's a good thing to have a virus that is more infectious but less deadly," Tambyah told Reuters.*

*Tambyah said most viruses tend to become less virulent as they mutate.*

*"It is in the virus' interest to infect more people but not to kill them because a virus depends on the host for food and for shelter," he said.*


----------



## urbanshooter

Sean Khan said:


> A new strain known as D614G is going round now
> 
> 
> 
> On Sunday, Malaysia's health ministry announced that D614G, a mutation of SARS-CoV-2 virus, has been detected in at least three of the 45 cases in a cluster that started from a restaurant owner *returning from India* and breached his 14-day home quarantine.
> 
> ========
> 
> But of course.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It's apparently a lot more infectious
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Paul Tambyah, senior consultant at the National University of Singapore and president-elect of the International Society of Infectious Diseases, said evidence suggests the proliferation of the D614G mutation in some parts of the world *has coincided with a drop in death rates, suggesting it is less lethal.*
> 
> *"Maybe that's a good thing to have a virus that is more infectious but less deadly," Tambyah told Reuters.*
> 
> *Tambyah said most viruses tend to become less virulent as they mutate.*
> 
> *"It is in the virus' interest to infect more people but not to kill them because a virus depends on the host for food and for shelter," he said.*
Click to expand...

45 case were linked to that one person returning from India. It's referred to as the "Sivaganga cluster" coz that's where that restaurant owner returned from. About half of the people infected were asymptomatic. So, in a way, we can say it's less deadly though more stealthy. That one person infected family, staff and restaurant customers. I think he is still recovering in a hospital somewhere but he has been fined and as soon as he is well enough he is getting jail time for defying quarantine orders. Moving forward, we will be using quarantine centers as people just cannot be trusted to self-quarantine.


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## Sean Khan

> as soon as he is well enough *he is getting jail time*


I have always liked Malaysia... :wave:


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## Tag

I’m glad we can have this chance to find out what’s going on in our neighborhoods concerning the COVID-19 virus. Thanks to everyone for keeping it civil.


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## Tag

The court system is not equal for everyone. Don’t shoot me Here is an example that I base my thoughts on. Let’s say someone sues a big company for issues due to a medication they were taking. That big company has more lawyers and most likely more money than the poor individual. The big company can keep you tied up in court until you are broke.


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## spewing

urbanshooter said:


> It is very apparent what our source of news is depending on the politically skewed things each person says. Mainstream media is no longer a reliable source of information. It's about narratives and click bait. Whatever one side says will be automatically opposed with individual smearing, bogus lawsuits and the craziness is on an all time high... And I'll say no more as I am circling the political discussion drain....


Probably one of the best observations I've seen recently.

I try and read round a subject from as many different sources as I can wether I agree with there slant or not to try and get as balanced a view as possible.
Without knowing everybody on this form in person I can only try to guess where there information is coming from or wether it's from a source / slant that I haven't come across yet.
Sometimes I make a guess at where people are coming from but I'm probably way off.

However it's nice to see everyone having at least some respect for other people's opinions.


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## Tag

You can’t get blood out of a turnip


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## Tag

Very well said spewing


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## Tag

Well it’s been a proven fact that private enterprise can do certain things not only better but also more efficient, like the last space venture. The government mandates mask, and the entrepreneurs see an opportunity to make money It’s now who can make the most fun mask as far as fun characters. Now people are asking “ Where did you get that cool mask”


----------



## Sean Khan

https://www.dawn.com/news/1575607/11pc-pakistanis-have-developed-protective-immunity-study

ISLAMABAD: A study conducted in 25 cities shows that almost 11 per cent of Pakistanis have developed protective immunity across the country against coronavirus. The WHO confirms.

======================

How nice.

I couldn't wait. I am about to have my first take-out dinner in 8 months, this evening.

A word of caution... I went to the restaurant and ordered it myself.. I didn't do it by phone or internet. I can confirm nobody there looked sickly.

Anyway... the days of living like a dumb hermit are almost over.

When the vaccine works, we will make enough domestically to give it to over to 200 million people. And it will be cheap.

And now we wait for the next virus.... there will always be a next virus coming from somewhere on this planet.....


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## Sean Khan

As most schools and universities have been closed all this time, it was decided that class assignments given over the internet would be marked for passing grades... no exams will be held this year.

Guess what.... everyone failed. :slap:

People cram for .. and save all their studying for... exams. Not for homework. Homework and classroom assignments are treated with contempt and people go partying instead.

Seems that wasn't too bright of them, was it? :rolling:


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## Sean Khan

Meanwhile, people living near the mountains risk their lives to get fast internet for online school because normal schools/universities are closed .....basically they have to climb a mountain to get a signal.

And then they have to climb down again. *Every day.*

https://www.dawn.com/news/1573665/risking-our-lives-students-in-gilgit-kp-climb-mountains-trek-miles-to-attend-online-classes

This place here. Pretty.. but internet is iffy.


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## Tag

Beautiful scenery


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## Tag

Just the facts! 36 students that attend a college near us have been suspended until (THEY) powers to be figure out what the punishment should be. These students were told not to gather in a social group of this size because of the Covid Virus.


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## Tag

Well my weekly trip to the big box stores for favorite mother in law's groceries. It is mandated to wear face mask while inside a store. I seen at least 10 customers without mask. I was talking to an employee and she said that there have been several customers without mask, but no one is to confront them. Well Lah Dee Dah

I'm wearing mine because we are babysitting and I hope wearing a mask helps prevent us from becoming infected with the virus. It all depends who's doing the talking whether a mask prevents the virus or not.

I do know one thing whoever mandates this #%#% needs to enforce it or let each do their own thing. Oh wait they are.

I do know if you keep telling someone you are going to correct them, but you never do, they eventually they catch on that you are full of


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## Tag

Well it was bound to happen we went to a soccer game at our nieces school and I heard a couple Mother’s voicing their opinions over no Port A John’s available‍♂ I totally understand their concerns, but let’s look at both sides. Some People will more than likely need to go to the restroom at some point during the game, so what do you do legally. The other part of this conversation is who is responsible for disinfecting the Port A John after each person.


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## Tag

An argument broke out over riding the bus to school or taking their kids.‍♂ I’m standing there listening for once and doing my best to keep my big mouth shut when they ask my opinion here is what I replied. We pay taxes to have the privilege to ride a bus, but we also pay to own a vehicle. So it’s our money, so why would anyone care just as long as we get our students to and from school safely.


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## Sean Khan

Last cheese-burger I had was in January. Which is a tragedy... Pakistan was created so we could have cheese-burgers whenever we want (you get lynched in India for eating beef).

Now that the virus threat is decreasing every passing day, I finally picked up the phone and ordered a cheese-burger. I insisted they don't include the coleslaw. *If there is any chance of infection, the coleslaw will be the carrier... always.*

Microwaved it before having, as an extra safety measure.

















I believe I already went through the virus and didn't know it. But if I get nailed.... *it was worth it.*


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## Tag

A small rural school has temporarily went to virtual school for two weeks. 10 new cases of covid and approximately 25% of the students were in contact with these students.


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## Tag

Tempers are running short A friend of mine ushers in a church, and there is a limited number of people allowed in at one time. He had a Man get out of hand arguing that he had the right to attend church. My friend tried to explain it wasn’t the church making the decisions on how many were allowed in church at one time. I asked my friend why don’t they have another mass before or after the regular scheduled mass.


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## Tag

Another school going virtual for two weeks near us.


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## Reed Lukens

Well... for us when we first got shut down my wife freaked and didn't want me going out with my friends because I would be putting her life at risk, etc,etc,etc... There were no cases in the area. After a couple months of "Nothing", she started mellowing and started thinking like me and we started enjoying life together again, I had never stopped going out with my friends camping, swimming, shooting, etc... and she was still alive 
Now... it's been 6 months, there still hasn't been one case in the area, and she's still not dead! Lol


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## urbanshooter

Reed Lukens said:


> Well... for us when we first got shut down my wife freaked and didn't want me going out with my friends because I would be putting her life at risk, etc,etc,etc... There were no cases in the area. After a couple months of "Nothing", she started mellowing and started thinking like me and we started enjoying life together again, I had never stopped going out with my friends camping, swimming, shooting, etc... and she was still alive
> Now... it's been 6 months, there still hasn't been one case in the area, and she's still not dead! Lol


If there is no one carrying Covid, everyone is fine to carry on with life and should. People need to work and make a living as well. However, we need to monitor who we interact with. IMO the best prevention is containment - i.e. border controls. Keep it out so we can keep on living... Be wary of people that travel and have had potential exposure because they may not show any symptoms. For such situations, take care of yourself with sensible precautions... The initial shutdown of 2 weeks is prudent. It flushes out anyone who is sick. However if you have gone through the two weeks and no one is sick, you can congratulate ypurselves for being ronafree and life should resume as normal. Locking down for months is a really bad idea (unless you're trying to collapse the economy).

You are blessed if you live in a place that has not been affected by Covid-19. For the rest of us, especially those that live in urban areas, we don't have such luxury... At times like this it makes sense to live remotely, self-sufficiently and away from other people!

Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk


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## treefork




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## AUSSIE4

Down here in Aus it is pretty average. Our government started up everything too quick and Victoria had a huge outbreak which was already apparent to most that it was going to happen.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

Sind (the state/province where I am found) has reported no additional death from the coronavirus *for the first time in five months*. A statement from the Chief Minister House said that the province reported no virus fatalities in the last 24 hours. The provincial death toll stands at 2,422.

Sind has reported 230 new Covid-19 cases, taking the provincial total to 130,483. More than 2,100 people recovered from the virus in the last 24 hours, according to the statement.

https://www.dawn.com/live-blog/


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## Sean Khan

I'm not British but this is funny as 'ell.






According to the details, a British transport police officer asked Anthony Baldwin, 34, to wear a mask which he refused, citing that he is exempt from the rules because *he suffers from panic attacks* (WTF?) on a Wirral line service at Lime Street Station in Liverpool.

The passenger told the police officer that *he does not have to wear a mask due to a 'medical condition'.*

In the video, the police officer continues to insist the man puts on a mask or leave the train, but the man refuses sparking a violent tussle. A scuffle breaks out between Baldwin and the police officer, who uses his pepper spray after the man resists arrest.

The officer gives the passenger final warning before telling him, "You're getting off."

...............

"I have got severe anxiety. In the video the police pull my top over my head and you can actually hear me screaming. I was panicking and I had a panic attack in the back of the police van *and they just kept laughing at me*." (I would laugh too)

Baldwin also denied coughing on fellow passengers.


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## Sean Khan

Today's news:

While a little over 6,000 active cases of Covid-19 have been left across the country, federal and the provincial governments will sit together on Monday (today) to decide about reopening of 300,000 educational institutions which have been lying closed for the last six months.

Basically they are itching to open the schools again.

As far as I know, our patient zero was one guy coming home from Saudi Arabia. Just one guy and we were in deep doodoo.

I noticed a drop in average internet speeds (like half speed) as many many schools/colleges started online classes and people worked from home. Speeds have slowly adjusted back to normal. Point is, everyone went through the trouble of moving stuff online.. the traffic was heavy enough for me to feel it. I still feel it before lunchtime. What is the hurry now?


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## Tag

College near where I live have new cases where students were sharing vapor products‍♂


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## Sean Khan

The World Health Organisation (WHO) has listed Pakistan among seven countries that it says the world can learn from to fight future pandemics.

Pakistan has successfully flattened the coronavirus curve while the deadly contagion is spreading uncontrollably in many developed countries of the world.

Covid-19, the respiratory disease caused by the novel coronavirus, *has sickened 27.5 million people on the entire planet earth - except for Antarctica - and killed over 900,000 people* since its outbreak in December, last year.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1303755051396206594
In other news, USA removes Pakistan as a virus risk from it's Travel Advisory list. And it placed India on that list. :what:


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## Sean Khan




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## Sean Khan

Pakistani startup *DetectNow* is using AI to detect COVID-19 through cough audios

https://www.techjuice.pk/local-startup-detectnow-is-using-ai-to-detect-covid-19-through-cough-audios/


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## Pebble Shooter

Talking about the relevance of protective face masks, this is quite interesting:

"Face masks could be giving people Covid-19 immunity, researchers suggest"

"Mask wearing might also be reducing the severity of the virus and ensuring that a greater proportion of new infections are asymptomatic"

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-masks-could-giving-people-covid-19-immunity-researchers/

Makes sense to me. What do you think?


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## Tag

Well I’m not opposed to wearing nothing to lose and everything to gain.


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## Tag

Besides I remember the Lone Ranger and as he rode off people would say “Who was that masked man”


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## Tag

You never know who is listening. We were waiting in line waiting to pay and this other older gentleman and I strike up a conversation and I remark “ Wearing these mask sure makes me use more mouthwash‍♂ This lady in line at the next cash register speaks up and says “That’s what I tell my husband, but he must prefer to smell his bad breath” ‍♂ Before long a couple others jump in with their opinions.‍♂ The older guy and I just smiled


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## Cjw

My Doctor said have you seen people who do work around contagious diseases and viruses. They have a fully enclosed suit with hoses for oxygen. He said you think that 5 dollar face covering is going to help you. But still I wear one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## treefork




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## Tag

Very well put, CJW


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## Tag

This “He said She said” is getting old.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Tag

A person that works with my wife’s sister ( I don’t claim the #&#&#) coughed at work last week, went home for three days. Well I’ll be &$#@#$ she came back after the weekend feeling fine. She shouldn’t tell everyone on face book where she went‍♂


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## treefork

Presidential candidate reports how bad things are in the US with Covid -19 . Seems legit . :hmm:


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## Reed Lukens

Biden's mom must have smoked a lot of crack before Joe was born... lol.


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## Pebble Shooter

The general situation in Europe is not looking good at all right now, with the "second wave" in full swing: history appears to be repeating itself, judging by the situation apparently experienced during the so-called "Spanish Flu" pandemic back in Autumn 1918.

Too many people have been on summer vacation abroad, and at large parties without complying with the essential safety precautions, and the hospitals are filling up once again with the very serious cases. The number of new Corona cases in France is now coming close to 15,000 per day, where one needs to bear in mind that many cases are probably unaccounted for. Spain is rapidly returning to the situation it faced before the spring lock-down. Frightening indeed. The official numbers in the UK do not reflect the real numbers either.

Apparently it was the "second wave" that sadly killed the most people, and yes, many among the younger generation.

Localized lock-downs seem to be the new mantra in the hope of keeping the economy ticking along with daily life being more or less "normal". Several larger cities in Europe have now made it mandatory to wear a protective face mask even out in city streets, and Munich (Germany) is the latest to "join the club". Happy days...

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/corona-hotspot-in-bayern-maskenpflicht-auf-plaetzen-in-muenchen-16963691.html

You can translate this article into English with the help of Deepl, an online free translator: https://www.deepl.com/en/translator

It is probably fair to assume that a similar situation will occur on other continents too.

Stay safe, guys & girls. :hmm:


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## Tag

Thanks for sharing Pebble Shooter


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## Pebble Shooter

The situation in the whole of Europe is not looking good at all right now, autumn and winter will be tough times.

Here is a translation of an article published today in the reputable German "Frankfurter Allgemeine" newspaper:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/ausland/eu-kommission-warnt-gesundheitssysteme-corona-und-influenza-16969177.html

(Quoted text)

*"EU WARNS ABOUT CORONA:*

*"This could be our last chance"*

"Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides sounded the alarm: Covid-19 and influenza threaten to overburden healthcare systems. The situation is particularly dangerous in six European countries.

The EU Commission sounded the alarm on Thursday about the sharp rise in coronavirus infections. "In some member states the situation is now even worse than during the peak in March," said Health Commissioner Stella Kyriakides. The containment measures taken by states have either not been effective or have not been enforced or followed. Although the infection is currently affecting younger people in particular, which is why the mortality rate remains low, the number of admissions to intensive care units is increasing. Kyriakides warned of a "deadly double pandemic" because of the flu season that is now also beginning, which could overburden healthcare systems. "All member states must take immediate countermeasures at the first sign of new possible outbreaks. The Commissioner spoke of a "decisive moment": "This could be our last chance to prevent a repeat of last spring.

The urgent warning was flanked by a new risk assessment of the European Centre for Disease Control (ECDC). In it the member states are divided into three groups. According to this, the situation is most threatening in Bulgaria, Croatia, Malta, Spain, the Czech Republic and Hungary. These countries have a high proportion of elderly patients, which means that there are also severe courses of disease and a sharp rise in the number of deaths. In parts of these countries, the health care system is already under pressure, intensive care units are heavily occupied and personnel are exhausted.

The ECDC has recorded "worrying developments" in a dozen other countries: Austria, Estonia, Denmark, France, Ireland, Luxembourg, Norway, Portugal, Slovakia, Slovenia, the Netherlands and the United Kingdom. Germany is in the third group of countries with "stable trends", where infections are increasing but have so far hardly affected the older population.

*Kyriakides criticizes lax attitude*

ECDC Director Andrea Ammon said that in many places private celebrations had driven up infection rates. She warned that severe courses of Covid-19 also occur among young people; most recently, 44 percent of severe courses were reported in the age group between 15 and 49 years. States with worrying and alarming figures should now take measures to control the infection in the younger age group and protect those most at risk and health care workers. The Commission had already issued urgent recommendations for this in July. So far these recommendations have been followed "only to a certain extent," the director said. Ammon called in particular for young people to be made aware that they are by no means invulnerable.

Health Commissioner Kyriakides criticized the lax attitude of several member states. "When we hear today that 'our situation is okay', it is not enough," she said. The states must now make preparations for worst-case scenarios. She pointed to the possibility of joint procurement of medical equipment, which must be initiated in time. Even a vaccine against the virus would not solve all problems. The states should also quickly agree on how to regulate entry and exit to risk areas. "We must avoid a situation where governments believe they have no choice but to impose general lockdowns," Kyriakides warned.

The dramatic tone of the Commissioner, who spoke at a joint press conference with Ammon, must also be seen against the background of accusations that Brussels failed to warn of the pandemic in time at the beginning of the year. In fact, Kyriakides had already pointed out dangers at the end of January, but this was lost because the British political withdrawal overshadowed everything else in Brussels." (end quote)

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Stay safe on the other side of the pond, think for yourself and your families, and wear those face masks, however "uncool" that might be... :hmm:


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## Reed Lukens

We've been real lucky here in the bush. One case was reported in a friend's sister who returned from vacationing in Salt Lake City, Utah with it this last summer and other then that 0 cases in the locals out here. I feel for you guys locked into the cities where everything runs rampant. We'll be heading back to the desert in a couple of weeks and it's another area of Yavapi County Arizona with zero cases.


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## Tag

Well my wife’s niece on her side of the family has tested positive for covid. In fact the church has to shut down due to the majority of members are testing positive for covid.


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## Pebble Shooter

It was a massive gathering of several hundred people linked to an indoor church festival that led to a huge initial outbreak of the disease in Alsace (France) back in February this year, with patients being flown out to neighboring Germany and Switzerland a few weeks later as the French hospital system struggled with the high number of severe cases.

People simply have to understand that social distancing, although very depressing, is essential until we eventually have a properly tested and reliable vaccine sometime next year.

Hope your wife's niece will be OK, Tag.


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## Tag

Thank you P.S. the problem with a lot of people in the U.S. if you give them an inch, they will take a mile. I hear several people say this is just allergy and regular flu season‍♂ Then when they test positive for covid, it’s everyone’s fault but their own.


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## hoggy

up & down, one step forward and two steps back.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork

Protesting the lockdown in London .


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Tag

Masquerade


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## SJAaz

Has there been any proof that people can get this stuff twice? Seems like after everyone in the world has tested pos. we'd be safe from then on.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Tag

Another school in our area goes E Learning. My wife’s niece has contracted covid from her daughter, it she is in denial‍♂ She is one of those people that “the lights on but no body is home‍♂ “


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## treefork




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## Tag

Well our 13 and 15 year old nephews have tested positive for covid


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## treefork

,


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## urbanshooter

Those memes gave me a good laugh @Treefork. Really awkward situation where I am with a resurgence of cases form a state bordering Indonesia (porous borders) and gateway of illegal immigration from Philippines as well. They recently relaxed the border controls and BOOM cases surge throughout the state with new cases coming into from that state (which is about a 3 hour flight time across the sea). The moment you get complacent... I just hope we are not heading towards Lockdown 2.0.

It has also been really weird seeing what is happening in the rest of the world and how different attitudes have been. Weirder still is seeing how politicized it has become, to a point where mask wearing (or not) seems like a political position. Whatever one side says has to be opposed by the other. That's counter-productive IMO.

I believe businesses need to open and the economy needs to run BUT it needs to be done with adjusted operating procedures and precautions. If you catch it, chances are you'll survive but there is a risk of long term damage to your lungs, heart and for some even brain cells. Any such problems will never resolve though your situation may improve over time as your body learns to cope. Young people will probably shake it off... no biggie for them. Wearing a mask is not the end of the world. We put on pants to go out. We seek shelter when it rains...And while the science may not be definitive, there are lots of anecdotal accounts like this - https://fortune.com/2020/08/25/covid-outbreak-starbucks-seoul-masks-employees/ ...of course it's not a mask alone, you'll need to not touch tour face; keep your hands clean; and mind your distance from the next guy...

Those of you that live in small towns and off grid are actually in the better position. Being in a densely populated city now is not so good....

Fingers crossed we all stay safe and ronafree...


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## Tag

Some schools are going E learning here.


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## Tag

My wife’s sister has contracted covid, and she was saying if it doesn’t get any worse, she can handle it. Bit on a sadder note, her minister and his wife are not doing as well. Theirs went to their lungs. Hopefully all turns out well.


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## Pebble Shooter

Some good news from Germany in todays "Frankfurter Allgemeine" newspaper:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/gesellschaft/gesundheit/coronavirus/liveticker-zum-coronavirus-spahn-erwartet-corona-impfungen-in-messehallen-16963069.html

"In Germany, health care workers, the elderly and the sick could be the first to be vaccinated against corona infection centrally in exhibition halls from this winter onwards. Federal Health Minister Jens Spahn (CDU) said in Berlin on Thursday that he believes vaccinations would have to start in a few large centers, such as exhibition halls, as soon as safe vaccines were available.

Spahn spoke in accordance with assumptions of the Robert Koch Institute of "December, January, February, March" as a possible time frame for this. Since the vaccines would probably not be available at the beginning for everyone, the necessity of a prioritization would probably arise, so Spahn. It could be thus that for example only the employees of the health service and certain groups of risk are inoculated.

Among the groups of people who, according to current knowledge, have a higher risk of developing severe Covid 19 disease, the Robert Koch Institute counts people aged 50 to 60 years and older, people with cardiovascular diseases, diabetes or diseases of the respiratory system, and patients with suppressed immune systems. The risk increases for several of these characteristics."

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Some hope at last. I'm sure the US will not be far behind with these developments.


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## Tag

Good luck Pebbleshooter


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## High Desert Flipper

Covid forecast for the desert Southwest- looks good for spending more time in isolation (alone slinging in the great outdoors) as we are on the upswing again. Like much of the US, we down here apparently figured close was good enough. Unfortunately, not the case. So looks like it will be with us a while longer. And sadly, some more people will be hurt by this. But if there is a silver lining, being encouraged to spend more time isolated does have its upsides for those of us who have attractive options for complying.


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## Sean Khan

Schools open again... (SOP = Standard Operating Procedure)

Asking for trouble, what.


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## Sean Khan

On Friday, police and district administration officials patrolled markets and streets across Karachi, instructing shopkeepers to close businesses within the time set by the government and ensure the strict implementation of SOPs.

In various areas,* shopkeepers were witnessed requesting customers to sanitise their hands and distributing free masks before allowing people entry into their shops.*

According to a shop owner from Civil Lines, hardly any customers bring their own masks. "We cannot stop them from entering the shop and think it best to offer them masks and sanitisers, hoping that they will realise the importance of using them," he said.


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## Tag

Well My wife and I got our chance to pay it forward this weekend. Our new neighbors husband lost his job after 10 years. I think he has been hired for a new job but of course less money. I asked him if he could put some gutters on our house, and he said absolutely. He said we over paid him, and we said prove it we tried to give them some money, but they are too proud. I was laid off in 1981 when my job was sent out of the states. I refinished furniture for two years to make ends meet. The furniture kept coming in, so I kept at it. One day Zi asked a guy where he kept all that furniture. He said several people would buy furniture at an auction and have me restore it. I said I would always help someone if I could. Not bragging, but it sure feels good to help someone.


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## High Desert Flipper

Sean Khan said:


> On Friday, police and district administration officials patrolled markets and streets across Karachi, instructing shopkeepers to close businesses within the time set by the government and ensure the strict implementation of SOPs.
> 
> In various areas,* shopkeepers were witnessed requesting customers to sanitise their hands and distributing free masks before allowing people entry into their shops.*
> 
> According to a shop owner from Civil Lines, hardly any customers bring their own masks. "We cannot stop them from entering the shop and think it best to offer them masks and sanitisers, hoping that they will realise the importance of using them," he said.


Hoping you stay safe there.


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## Sean Khan

> Hoping you stay safe there.


Thank you.

I'll be fine ... I've already had this, most likely. Felt all the symptoms for a day or two and then it just went away.

And we have the vaccine now. It's been given to our soldiers and Chinese soldiers. It works. No bad side effects.

For the last stage 3 trials, they are now handing out cash to people who participate. People are still reluctant... they don't want to be part of some experiment, so we are paying out more money.

Anyway, the vaccine will be available to the public in 2-4 months. The story of this corona virus is almost over.


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## Tag

Wishing you the best on eliminating this pandemic.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Tag

Our niece teaches first grade in an awesome small rural school that WAS covid free until now. One of her fellow teachers daughter contracted COVID they believe she contracted the virus at a wedding. Their reasoning is there were a few new cases that all progressed at the same time from people that attended the wedding.


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## SJAaz

Same old stuff here. Not sure if it will ever be back to normal. I'm wondering if everyone who can catch it already has.


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## treefork




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## Tag

Lmao TreeFork


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## Sean Khan

*Expert laughs off study suggesting virus can last 28 days on surfaces*

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2268077/expert-laughs-off-study-suggesting-virus-can-last-28-days-on-surfaces

Dr Faheem Younus, the head of infectious diseases department at the University of Maryland in US, has laughed off the Australian study that suggested virus that causes Covid-19 can survive on banknotes, glass and stainless steel for up to 28 days.

The Pakistani origin doctor, who often debunks myths and misconceptions related to coronavirus, has termed the Australian researchers claim as "nonsense".

"Such studies are conducted in artificial lab conditions: dark, damp without body's defences. Cell phones, currency aren't a risk for Covid," he said in a tweet on his official handle on Monday.

In a bid to ward off the fears of thousands of his followers on the famous micro-blogging site, he sarcastically asked them to *send their phone or money "if they are still afraid".*

:rofl:


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## Tag

Isolated covid cases are popping up more frequently. Hopefully this will be short lived


----------



## Griffo

The latest from United Kingdom land.

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has introduced a three tier system for the nation. The Government decides which parts of the country should be heavily restricted and which parts can enjoy lesser restrictions. I agree with the approach because it is more nuanced than a blunt nationwide lockdown.

However some city Mayors, like the Mayor of Manchester, are threatening outright disobedience because their cities have been placed in the highest tier of restrictions. It's squaring up to be a fight between national and regional governance. With only one winner ultimately, the Government.

Meanwhile in Wales, a rural part of the UK with low levels of infection, hand-painted signs have appeared on the Welsh-English border urging English visitors to **** off back to England and take the virus with them.

We do squabble a lot. But I wouldn't be anywhere else.


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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

You have to use the hand sanitizer! It's the law! Use the hand sanitizer.....!

"It don't work, man!"

That's the fire extinguisher you muppet....


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## Griffo

Wales back into lockdown from Friday.

That's around 3.2 million people being told not to leave their homes unless for food or medical supplies for the next two weeks. I expect this time the lockdown won't be so obediently observed because so many are losing their jobs.


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## High Desert Flipper

For history fans, especially those who appreciate the truth in learning from it or being doomed to repeat it.... The Spanish flu had its run of those opposed to social distancing and they even had "anti-mask leagues". They also had second (and third) waves that were worse than the first.

I'm not advocating any particular position, more noting where we are likely headed over the next couple of months. If history is any guide that is. Of course, we may get a vaccine now that they didn't have then, so if things go well perhaps we will have a different course after that becomes widely available.


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## urbanshooter

As second and third waves begin to hit us everywhere I am warming up to this idea presented here:






Some call it the Great Barrington Declaration and its basic premise is to protect, isolate even, the vulnerable while allowing those at very low risk to carry on with life and build herd immunity. This is contrasted to the approach adopted by New Zealand that attempts to completely eradicate the virus (not so successfully). Life needs to go on... It is postulated that without some level of herd immunity, NZ would actually be disadvantaged at a later stage because it would be more vulnerable than other countries where the virus has run its course. But of course, we can always hope for a reliable vaccine...

Meanwhile, on a personal note, we think my daughter in London caught Covid though we will never really know for sure. She's a student at UCL and she had dinner with 5 friends. One of the girls needed to go in to the A&E for something unrelated and got a routine swab for Covid which turned out positive. In about a week all of the girls came down with flu like symptoms but it was mild for all of them and they got over it in a few days. They are young and able to shake it off with no detriment. Of course we would never know for sure since they were not tested. In the UK they won't test you if you are ill and don't really want you in their healthcare system if it isn't serious... people that get sick just self isolate. However given the circumstances, we think there is a very high likelihood she had it. Anyway my daughter is well and happier really for there is now a measure of relief of probably having the antibodies at least for a time...

Meanwhile in Japan, they have resolved to live with the virus and carry on with their daily lives adhering to SOP's... but Japanese culture is very compliant to directive and disciplined...

Anyway... this darned thing isn't going away anytime soon and we need to get on with our lives... stay safe and shoot in good health everyone!


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## Tag

We are seeing more cases in our rural area.. thankfully the cases I know of are short lived. I was helping a mechanic friend work on a customer’s car and when we opened the car door we seen a large coffee cup, a mask and spray disinfectant Always good to be prepared


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## High Desert Flipper

Thankfully, most cases are not so serious. Unfortunately, the serious ones including the fatalities come around about ten times more often than they do with the flu. The emerging evidence is that herd immunity won't work well since the immunity gained after being infected seems to be short lived, maybe 4-6 months, so herd immunity doesn't appear like it will happen.

On the upside, the number of flu cases is way way WAY down. It appears wearing masks and isolating has spilled over into reducing spread of the flu and colds with far fewer cases than in a normal year.

The take away messages from all of this? Yes, we are unlikely to get rid of covid completely and the future is going to be more about living with it than getting rid of it. But living with it can mean living with it being at much lower levels. Wearing masks and reducing contact are not 100% effective but do reduce things by ~90%. And not just for covid.

So a new normal in the future with (hopefully) more people buying into masks and accepting some distancing while getting back to as close to normal as we can may help hold covid down even if we can't get rid of it. With the bonus being that colds and flu may get reduced as well.

And a vaccine? When we get one that will help an awful lot but between some people who can't take vaccines and others who won't a vaccine won't close the door either. Will help reduce the incidence a lot but very unlikely to eradicate covid.

Hoping all stay safe and healthy, and that all who you come into contact with do the same.


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## Tag

The following is the facts only, I’ve know this gentleman all my life. My friend has led a very rough life. Full blown alcoholic since he was in his teens. Then along came drugs.He finally ended up on total disability and ended up in nursing home. An employee of the nursing home had COVID-19. my friend recently passed away. They say cause of death was Covid-19. This puts fear in older people, and I can understand why, but my friend was literally walking dead. I can fully understand what they mean when they say he is better off.


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## SJAaz

I'm waiting to see what the birth rate is going to do. People staying home, Not much to do but hang around the house, seems to me that their spouse is going to start looking a whole lot better....They once had a major power outage in a huge metropolitan area. Nine months the birth rate soared.


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## Sean Khan

> seems to me that their spouse is going to start looking a whole lot better


Or a whole lot worse.

Angry/Desperate-Sex will produce Angry/Desperate-Babies.

I think we already have plenty of those... instant-noodle munchers.....


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## treefork




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## Tag

They are shutting our grade school down for a week.


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## Sean Khan

Now anyone seen without a face mask... 500 to 1000 Rupee fine, on the spot.









No this isn't mine. I am not this stupid. This receipt belongs to some person with the brains of a turnip crying on the internet over being "mistreated" by the cops.

Point is, it is now *ILLEGAL* to go outside without a mask on.


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## Tag

They just announced our grade school and high school are both closed until after Thanksgiving


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## High Desert Flipper

El Paso TX, just down the interstate from us, is about out of hospital space and setting up temp morgues. :-(


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## Tag

A small town 6 miles held a get together and at least 20 people that attended have contracted Covid.


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## Tag

6 miles west of us


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## High Desert Flipper

Our Governor announced another statewide lockdown starting Monday. So naturally, there are lines to get in grocery stores and we are seeing another run on TP tonight.


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## High Desert Flipper

Our Governor announced another statewide lockdown starting Monday. So naturally, there are lines to get in grocery stores and we are seeing another run on TP tonight.


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## Tag

They shut our courthouse down until after thanksgiving.


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## Sean Khan

Aaaand we now have a cure. But it's in short supply because it's made out of the blood of recovered Covid patients.

*Clinical trials of Pakistani Covid-19 treatment show promising results*

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2273045/clinical-trials-of-pakistani-covid-19-treatment-show-promising-results

Clinical trials of Covid-19 intravenous immunoglobulin (C-IVIG), a therapy developed by Dow University of Health Sciences (DUHS) against coronavirus, showed promising results, the medical institute revealed in a statement on Saturday.

*C-IVIG has shown 100 per cent recovery rate in severe patients, and more than 60% recovery rate in critical patients admitted in ICU [intensive care unit] or are on ventilators, with more than 50% of the recovered patients being discharged from hospital within five days, it said.*

Patients infused with C-IVIG were 60 years of age on average, and most of them had diabetes, hypertension and other cardiac diseases.

"The success of C-IVIG in these high risk patients is very encouraging, and leaves no doubt about effectiveness of this treatment."

*C-IVIG is prepared by chemically purifying plasma of recovered Covid-19 patients, "which is why it is requested that recovered individuals donate their plasma".*

=====================================

Meanwhile, the final trials of the Chinese vaccine are progressing well. No nasty surprises so far.


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## Griffo

Comparison of vaccines

*Oxford University*
Efficacy: 90% -- Storage: 180 days at fridge temperature -- Cost: £3 per shot (needs two)

*Pfizer*
Efficacy: 95% -- Storage: -70 Celsius -- Cost: £15 per shot

*Moderna*
Efficacy: 95% -- Storage: 30 days at fridge temperature -- Cost: £25 per shot

Despite its slightly lower efficacy, the Oxford vaccine, developed by Oxford University (UK) looks to me to be the winner in the vaccine race so far. The Pfizer vaccine (US) is going to be difficult to roll out because storing anything at -70 Celsius is not a trivial matter and the Moderna vaccine (US) costs four times as much as the Oxford vaccine. Plus it stores for a much shorter length of time.

The Oxford vaccine does have 5% less efficacy in trials but this should still translate into greater than 60% effective (not the same as efficacy) in the real world which is considered a successful vaccine. For example the flu jab I had this year is about 40% to 60% effective in preventing seasonal flu.

Where the Chinese, Russian(?), others stack up, I don't know.

Here, the over-80s are probably going to get the vaccine first. Maybe in the coming weeks. So if the vaccine does cause a zombie apocalypse at least we'll have a fighting chance. Slingshots vs. zombie Grannies. Bring it! :battle:


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## Griffo

A few weeks ago testing was only for those with symptoms. Now, everyone, regardless of having symptoms or not, is being urged to have a covid test. Mass testing is likely to be the precursor for mass vaccination.

Hopefully the idiotic anti-vaxxers message will have little or no impact. We have this weekend had violent protests in London from groups opposed to lockdown measures. Around 150 arrests were made. I do have some sympathies with their point of view, but none with the anti-vax brigade.


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## Sean Khan

> Where the Chinese, Russian(?), others stack up, I don't know.


The Chinese vaccine is doing well. 7,000 out of total 10,000 people (for stage 3 trials) have taken the vaccine with excellent results. Everyone in the country will get it by June next year. Maybe a little earlier. It has already been cleared for emergency use by doctors and military.

The Russian vaccine is said to be 95% effective *but Putin has refused to take it.* So.....


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## Griffo

Here it is. Developed by Sinopharm, a leading Chinese vaccine developer.

I've complete confidence in the Chinese scientific community to be every bit as talented and driven as their European and North American counterparts, but less so about the honesty of Chinese officials in their reporting of the outcome of clinical trials i.e. efficacy.

The Russians I don't trust in the slightest, but good luck to them anyway. Putin is becoming more irrelevant every day.

The world needs China to manufacture a proven vaccine because China is the manufacturing hub of the world. But will we trust China?


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## devils son in law

A week ago we had 17 Covid positives in the hospital where I work, as of today we have 3. This doesn't seem to be following the trend but we not in a heavily populated area.


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## Sean Khan

> but less so about the honesty of Chinese officials in their reporting of the outcome of clinical trials i.e. efficacy.


WE are reporting "no problems so far". In a month or so, we will know exactly how good it is. If it is found lacking, we will look for alternatives.

The trial of this vaccine (or some other Chinese vaccine... there are 4..) was stopped in Brazil because someone died. But they found the guy had killed himself... didn't die from the vaccine. Brazil resumed trials.

--------------

https://www.samaa.tv/news/2020/10/pakistan-volunteers-chinese-coronavirus-vaccine-trial/

Healthy participants are needed, reads a notice from a hospital. Volunteers should be over 18 years, have no history of contracting COVID-19 and ideally have no underlying illness-those whose underlying conditions are controlled are also eligible.

Pregnant, lactating and women planning to be pregnant in the next 90 days after the vaccination cannot take part.

You can enroll by:


Calling or messaging 0309-0602050
Emailing [email protected]

You will then be called for screening at the Indus Hospital. A blood sample will be taken. If eligible, you will receive either the vaccine or a placebo, as the trial is randomised. After that the researchers will follow up with on a weekly basis till one year. If you exhibit symptoms of COVID-19 such as cough, fever, shortness of breath, loss of smell and taste, you have to agree to be tested.

There might also be mild side effects such as pain at the injection site, fever, fatigue or muscle ache, but they should not last longer than a day or two.

The vaccine, called Ad5, was developed by Chinese company CanSino Biologics and the Institute of Biology at the China's Academy of Military Medical Sciences.

*It contains a modified form of the adenovirus (cold virus) which will carry the genetic material of the new coronavirus into the cells.* Once human cells are exposed to this they will begin making a coronavirus protein and the body's immune system will recognize the protein and attack it.


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## Griffo

Sean Khan said:


> but less so about the honesty of Chinese officials in their reporting of the outcome of clinical trials i.e. efficacy.
> 
> 
> 
> WE are reporting "no problems so far". In a month or so, we will know exactly how good it is. If it is found lacking, we will look for alternatives.
> 
> The trial of this vaccine (or some other Chinese vaccine... there are 4..) was stopped in Brazil because someone died. But they found the guy had killed himself... didn't die from the vaccine. Brazil resumed trials.
Click to expand...

From what I've read the outcomes of one or more of the foreign trials from the three Chinese vaccinemakers - CanSino, Sinovac Biotech and China National Biotec Group (CNBG) - will be announced soon, with efficacy data.

Long article but worth reading:

Science magazine - 25 November



> Chinese citizens have reeled from a series of scandals over the past decade that include use of ineffective diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus vaccines; improper records for a rabies vaccine; and sales of an expired polio vaccine.
> 
> In something of a twist, Yip says China's middle class may prefer to receive a vaccine from a reputable foreign company. "Their level of confidence in Chinese-made vaccines is quite low because of all the repeated scandals," he says. AstraZeneca and Pfizer have agreements to produce their products with Chinese manufacturers. "They will outsell the CNBG, Sinovac, and CanSinos by 10 to one-and they will charge 10 times more," Yip predicts.


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## Sean Khan

I read the article... thanks for the link.

Basically, I would trust a vaccine from a country that handled the virus (China). I would trust them to know what they are doing. They are taking every precaution NOT to embarrass themselves internationally on the vaccine effort.

Anything American/Western made? First upgrade my home freezer to go down to -80C (for free). Then I will see what's what.

Anything out of Russia??? .....If Putin won't take it, neither will I..... I want to see him inject himself in the neck (or wherever Russian vaccines are injected)... then yeah, I'm good.


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## Griffo

If it came down to a choice of Chinese vaccine or no vaccine then I'd choose a Chinese vaccine. The Chinese Gov't will want its population to be inoculated against the virus, it wouldn't be in their interest to be handing out ineffective or dangerous vaccines. But I'm still sceptical of all data from Chinese sources.

It's only one of the three UK/US vaccines which needs to be stored at -70C. I don't understand why Pfzier are developing a vaccine which needs to be stored at such low temperature. Seems completely impractical for mass vaccination.

I had an appointment with my Doctor this morning and I quickly asked him about vaccine storage. He said most Doctor Surgeries could store vaccines and medicines down to -20C but anything lower needed specialised refrigeration.


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## Sean Khan

> The Chinese Gov't will want its population to be inoculated against the virus


The Chinese govt will want it's *MILITARY* inoculated against the virus. Which is exactly what they did. Which is why I trust them.

The vaccine, called Ad5, was developed by Chinese company CanSino Biologics *and the Institute of Biology at the China's Academy of Military Medical Sciences.*

Pakistan and China have a very close military relationship which has never failed either side. ... "*Pakistan is OUR Israel*" said Chinese foreign minister to Obama.... THAT I trust.



> But I'm still sceptical of all data from Chinese sources.


We will have data of our own soon. As will other countries trying this vaccine.



> He said most Doctor Surgeries could store vaccines and medicines down to -20C


That's the same has my home deep freezer... from -20 to -25. So he meant any freezer.



> I don't understand why Pfzier are developing a vaccine which needs to be stored at such low temperature.


Trying to do something and actually doing something are two very different things.


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## treefork




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## urbanshooter

This may be a little long but it's easy and interesting to listen to. I had it fact checked by friends who are doctors and they all agree that the opinion shared is professional and accurate...

And, spoiler alert - a vaccine wont mean we get stop having to wear masks, at least not immediately... anyway, just listen to it. Current vaccines in development are discussed... they also discuss the treatment President Trump received...enjoy...


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## Griffo

Today has been dubbed 'Wild Wednesday' because all non-essential retail shops reopened after our latest lockdown. With three weeks to go until Christmas, Brits have decided to crack-on with their festive shopping. All with masks and social distancing of course.

UK vaccinations soon, possibly as soon as tomorrow for the most vulnerable and our NHS workers.


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## MOJAVE MO

#donttreadonme









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Tag

A friend of ours is 52 and has been infected by the covid pneumonia. He has been in the hospital for 3 days. He was told that as soon as possible he would have to start walking several times a day to keep blood clots from forming.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

We'll probably be next... or we'll go for the Oxford vaccine. Or both.


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## MOJAVE MO

Ouch.









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork

When the lockdown is over and exotic dancers finally go back to work .


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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


 LOL!!!!  

Only you, Treefork ...Only you!!!!

Good one. I'm here trying to think how I'm going to change this meme to Portuguese, since we're having the same affliction...

Cheers ...Q


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## Quercusuber

MOJAVE MO said:


> #donttreadonme
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Yep, welcome to the "Twilight Zone", season 2020...


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## High Desert Flipper

Some perspective


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## Pebble Shooter

Well, at least some of the "Moderna" vaccines will be manufactured by the pharmaceutical company Lonza in canton Valais, Switzerland. I know for sure that anything administered here will not come from dodgy sources further east - which is reassuring.

For now, much of Europe faces a very tough long winter, and Germany is set to start a new lockdown on 16 December; no wonderful "Sylvester" New Years eve celebrations with lots of fireworks this year - read here:

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/politik/inland/merkel-verkuendet-lockdown-ab-mittwoch-17100078.html

You can translate this article with the help of www.deepl.com, if ever.

In spite of the current circumstances, my feeling is that we are on the winning home run with the vaccine just around the corner. The key issue now is to play safe and stay healthy until we've all been vaccinated i.e. no huge parties at Christmas with unknown virus spreaders, etc. It's simply not worth it, guys.

Stay safe, all of you.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


EXACTLY!!!! Oh man, oh man ...

Gonna steal this one, sir 

Cheers ...Q


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## Quercusuber




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Sean Khan




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## Sean Khan

> will not come from dodgy sources further east


The UAE prime minister... ruler?... some raja/maharaja/shiekh/mega-rich-dude-in-charge.... got himself injected in his girly arm with the Chinese vaccine. And he seems to be doing fine.









Either that was just distilled water... or he got the real deal with full confidence that it works.

I think it's the same Chinese vaccine we signed up for (we have also lined up Russia and UK). It's here and I have seen it. It's available for emergency use for people who deal with the public a lot. I have the option to take it but declined... I already have the antibodies in me system, thank goodness. Save it for someone else. It's in short supply. Even the Chinese can't keep up.

It will be available for the rest of us in a month or two. BUT everyone and their cat will not be vaccinated until the end of 2021. Until then, wear your masks.


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## Sean Khan

And this just in....

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2275900/private-sector-allowed-to-import-covid-vaccine

Private sector allowed to import Covid vaccine. Health experts say people might be able to buy doses before the government rollout....

*ISLAMABAD: *The Ministry of National Health Services, Regulations and Coordination on Sunday revealed that the government had allowed the private sector to purchase the coronavirus vaccine *for the people who can pay through the nose. *(Govt provided vaccine on the other hand will be very cheap or free)

"Private sector has also been given permission by government to cater for that segment of society which can afford," the official statement of the health ministry read suggesting that the sought after Covid-19 vaccine will make its way on to the private sector as well.

Health experts said that enabling the private sector to acquire the vaccine also indicated that *people might be able to buy doses before the government rollout.* (the vaccine I saw was obviously acquired in this manner)


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## treefork




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## Sean Khan




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## Sean Khan




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## Sean Khan

Their vaccines have obviously worked....

BTW, I don't know if this is an after-effect of the virus or just the weather but myself and some others like me are experiencing quite a bit of soreness in the ribs and in the lower back. This is not normal.

Well it looks like eating steamed potatoes (or even lots of french fries) makes it all better. So weird.


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## Sean Khan

I also took some vitamins... don't remember what kind. I wish I did. I pop pills because I like the color at that point in time, not whats written on the box. Who reads that nonsense...?


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## Pebble Shooter

Nationwide Covid-19 vaccination starting in Switzerland on 04 January 2021. There is light at the end of the tunnel...at last!


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## MOJAVE MO

Yea. So the US is telling us that this vaccine won't keep you from catching the virus. So we are supposed to get vaccinated against something that won't protect us against the virus so we are told to keep wearing the mask until further notice. Yea. I'm a young 56 years old and have a PhD in B.S. I'll consider this miracle vaccine in 5 years after they finally figure out what has yet to be figured out. Go figure!









Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Pebble Shooter

We all start out in life with certain essential vaccinations against some rather nasty diseases (like polio, just to name one of them), and most people readily accept certain vaccinations before they travel to some parts of the world, where some other "interesting" viruses abound.

After having had a nice mix of vaccinations during my life (I'm age 56 as well) linked to international travel, including the annual flu jab without any complications whatsoever, I feel quite safe to have the Pfizer-Biontech or "Moderna" vaccination administered. I want to return to fairly normal living, and not have this unpleasant fear at the back of my mind of "what if..." when I'm in the presence of others while doing essential shopping, or going to the post office. I have kept away from restaurants, bars, and cafes ever since this frightening situation started out back in March in my part of the world, and have fully complied with the protective measures - including the wearing of face masks in stores, etc., which a certain Mr. Trump sees to despise with an "I'm OK, Jack" attitude, a stance that has worsened the situation throughout America.

My intuitive thinking is that it is better to take a calculated risk by accepting the vaccination (tested on 40,000 volunteers without problems!), as opposed to catching the real deal of Covid-19 ("CCP-Virus") and being open to potential hell because everyone reacts differently to this disease, with its mortality rate of 2-3 % (WHO statistics). I can nevertheless fully relate to those who express doubts about a new vaccine concocted within less than a year, but also assume that the (contained) Sars-2 outbreak in Hong Kong back in 2003 and subsequent research into a vaccine at that time, as well as knowledge related to the influenza virus (the standard annual flu, which is also part of the wonderful corona virus family) laid the foundations for the new vaccines in a context of unprecedented global cooperation.

I therefore feel that the vaccine is most likely a safe option for all to consider seriously to end this terrible pandemic, which bears many similarities with the so-called "Spanish Flu" of 1918-19, even if virus mutations and numerous unknowns, such as the duration of the protection, prevail at this stage. The way I see it is that the new vaccination will give the body some form of "identification" code with regard to the disease, as opposed to it being totally defenseless as is presently the case. I do not think that it will change us into genetically modified "zombies", as in any case everything we eat is based on multiple DNA-based genetic structures. Yes, even that hamburger at Mc-Do.

My 2 cents worth...it's up to everyone to decide what is best for them - along with the risks of not being vaccinated.

I will get the vaccination done ASAP. Meanwhile, I'll be shooting at corona virus drawings on corrugated cardboard. B)


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## Sean Khan

> I feel quite safe to have the Pfizer-Biontech or "Moderna" vaccination administered.


All vaccines will work.... except for the one made out of cow dung ... stay away from that one IF it ever turns from rumor into reality. They say it doesn't even need an ordinary fridge. Well why would it? :banana:

I don't care which vaccine we get as long as everyone is vaccinated. It's too late for me... I've had this damn thing and got over it. But for the sake of everyone else....

BTW a few years ago I was exploring an under-construction house.. no electricity and dark... and something banged into the side of my head very hard and vanished. *It was a bat.* Bat-Radar not working maybe that day or couldn't turn a corner fast enough .... but the thing is... *it was SOFT*.. softer than a teddy bear. It surprised me but didn't hurt at all despite the speed at which it was traveling. It bounced off my skull like a ball of jello.

This happened not too long ago. *I believe it was an early warning sign just for me. I should have warned the world but who would listen?*


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## MOJAVE MO

Pebble Shooter said:


> We all start out in life with certain essential vaccinations against some rather nasty diseases (like polio, just to name one of them), and most people readily accept certain vaccinations before they travel to some parts of the world, where some other "interesting" viruses abound.
> 
> After having had a nice mix of vaccinations during my life (I'm age 56 as well) linked to international travel, including the annual flu jab without any complications whatsoever, I feel quite safe to have the Pfizer-Biontech or "Moderna" vaccination administered. I want to return to fairly normal living, and not have this unpleasant fear at the back of my mind of "what if..." when I'm in the presence of others while doing essential shopping, or going to the post office. I have kept away from restaurants, bars, and cafes ever since this frightening situation started out back in March in my part of the world, and have fully complied with the protective measures - including the wearing of face masks in stores, etc., which a certain Mr. Trump sees to despise with an "I'm OK, Jack" attitude, a stance that has worsened the situation throughout America.
> 
> My intuitive thinking is that it is better to take a calculated risk by accepting the vaccination (tested on 40,000 volunteers without problems!), as opposed to catching the real deal of Covid-19 ("CCP-Virus") and being open to potential **** because everyone reacts differently to this disease, with its mortality rate of 2-3 % (WHO statistics). I can nevertheless fully relate to those who express doubts about a new vaccine concocted within less than a year, but also assume that the (contained) Sars-2 outbreak in Hong Kong back in 2003 and subsequent research into a vaccine at that time, as well as knowledge related to the influenza virus (the standard annual flu, which is also part of the wonderful corona virus family) laid the foundations for the new vaccines in a context of unprecedented global cooperation.
> 
> I therefore feel that the vaccine is most likely a safe option for all to consider seriously to end this terrible pandemic, which bears many similarities with the so-called "Spanish Flu" of 1918-19, even if virus mutations and numerous unknowns, such as the duration of the protection, prevail at this stage. The way I see it is that the new vaccination will give the body some form of "identification" code with regard to the disease, as opposed to it being totally defenseless as is presently the case. I do not think that it will change us into genetically modified "zombies", as in any case everything we eat is based on multiple DNA-based genetic structures. Yes, even that hamburger at Mc-Do.
> 
> My 2 cents worth...it's up to everyone to decide what is best for them - along with the risks of not being vaccinated.
> 
> I will get the vaccination done ASAP. Meanwhile, I'll be shooting at corona virus drawings on corrugated cardboard. B)


I can see and here that you have been around the block a few times. However, I am going to take a minute this morning to clarify my position a little better. If you and I spent the time to create a Covid-19 dissertation from every single country in the world we would find very few that would agree with even their closest bordering neighbor. As a small sample of this it common knowledge that every American has been taught that Canada is a 3rd World country. I imagine that Canadians are told that the US is where you go to get genital herpes or a bullet in leg if you are lucky. My point is that we cannot even agree worldwide on how to manage the Seasonal Flu. BTW---where did that virus go?! More importantly why aren't the world's homeless not all dead by now? 
I would like to point out that myself, wife, and three kids (2 adult kids) have only changed our Virus Crisis life pattern so as not to get hassled by the brown shirts walking around trying to shame the population. My extended family works in senior private healthcare. We have seen ZERO infections or death in our circle of influence. How is this possible in a 'devastating pandemic that is going to kill us all if we don't heed the warnings'??
And finally. TRUMP. I want to say this part louder than the rest but I will avoid capitalization! Every single president in the history has been, and will always be a corrupt figure head that is in charge of only ONE single element of the United States. This is the ability to begin and sustain a war against our enemies. The 50 States in the country all play by their own rules. I live in N. Carolina that has their own Covid-19 rules. I can drive 45mins to S. Carolina and have a whole different set of rules. My family in California can have the power and water shut-off if a neighbor calls the Covid-19 Emergency Hotline because my Mom, Sister, and Brother and their families decide to have a Sunday dinner together. I can buy an ounce of Ganja in Nevada, but not in Utah which is an hour away. Guess where all the Mormon's go to find the brain food??!
My final punctuation. My view on my country and the governing of people is deeply and genetically suspicious. My Great Grandmother married a Japanese man. Aside from generations of the B.S. to follow she was stripped of her US Citizenship for this vile indiscretion. The government tried to destroy every fiber of my family and we are still not happy about it. A few years back a dozen of us or so were called by the State of California to apologize and gave each of us a check for $20kusd. I was furious, probably still am. Not at the dollar amount. It was the admission of stupidity.
My Uncle Richard was the only founding member of the Black Panthers that wasn't black. They all connected in S. Francisco in part to channel his fury and teach the group how to handle weapons. To this day I still get a call once a year by the FBI to ask me 'how I am doing'. 
I am part of the Silent Majority in the US that has had enough of being lied to, taxed to the hilt, a medical penalty tax that costs me the amount of a house payment--$1700usd a month whether I use it or not. I get taxed to buy a car, then pay another tax in order to be allowed to drive. I pay a tax to have a job. Even with that monthly medical fee my medical insurance company was just billed $250 for a PHONE Dr. Appt! I am supposed to be thrilled that my out of pocket portion was only $110!? 
Okay. Right now I am a wild dog on a rant of destruction. SUMMARY:
Imagine for one second that one of us is being lied too? My family has already taken that train ride to a place where they would be safe. That ain't gonna happen again.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Sean Khan

> I am part of the Silent Majority in the US that has had enough of being lied to, taxed to the hilt, a medical penalty tax that costs me the amount of a house payment--$1700usd a month whether I use it or not. I get taxed to buy a car, then pay another tax in order to be allowed to drive. I pay a tax to have a job. Even with that monthly medical fee my medical insurance company was just billed $250 for a PHONE Dr. Appt! I am supposed to be thrilled that my out of pocket portion was only $110!?


So it's true then.

A few years ago, we were visited by Hillary Clinton .. doing her usual rounds I guess... she said on our TV (she does love to talk) "In America, we tax everything that moves and everything that doesn't move. Why don't you do the same?"

Wow. Okayyyy.... "I got cooties, you get cooties too!"

Brilliant logic.



> My view on my country and the governing of people is deeply and genetically suspicious.


Old white men in suits and boots. I never trusted them either.

In fact, I had once written off white people as "what am I supposed to do with them?" when I realized how badly we (Asians) need them.

Ask an Asian lady to bake you a chocolate cake. Or ANY cake.

Not going to happen. Doesn't matter what Asian. Pakistani, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean... good luck with that cake. You will die of hunger first.

White people/women, on the other hand, can BAKE.

I like cake!

This is just a small example... there are many things they can do, we can't and many things we are very good at that they are not.

*"I (Allah) made you different tribes, so you could learn from each other. Not so you could despise each other".. Koran.*



> My Uncle Richard was the only founding member of the Black Panthers that wasn't black. They all connected in S. Francisco in part to channel his fury and teach the group how to handle weapons.


That is very impressive.

As a member of the largest warrior tribe on earth (yes really), I can tell you "they" have been trying to disarm us for at least 200 years. The British tried and failed, the Soviets got their butts handed to them and my own Govt keeps trying now and then, runs around in circles flapping it's wings like a chicken and then forgets all about it for another decade or two.

America's founding fathers were right about how liberty and the right to have firearms, goes hand in hand.


----------



## MOJAVE MO

Sean Khan said:


> I am part of the Silent Majority in the US that has had enough of being lied to, taxed to the hilt, a medical penalty tax that costs me the amount of a house payment--$1700usd a month whether I use it or not. I get taxed to buy a car, then pay another tax in order to be allowed to drive. I pay a tax to have a job. Even with that monthly medical fee my medical insurance company was just billed $250 for a PHONE Dr. Appt! I am supposed to be thrilled that my out of pocket portion was only $110!?
> 
> 
> 
> So it's true then.
> 
> A few years ago, we were visited by Hillary Clinton .. doing her usual rounds I guess... she said on our TV (she does love to talk) "In America, we tax everything that moves and everything that doesn't move. Why don't you do the same?"
> 
> Wow. Okayyyy.... "I got cooties, you get cooties too!"
> 
> Brilliant logic.
> 
> 
> 
> My view on my country and the governing of people is deeply and genetically suspicious.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Old white men in suits and boots. I never trusted them either.
> 
> In fact, I had once written off white people as "what am I supposed to do with them?" when I realized how badly we (Asians) need them.
> 
> Ask an Asian lady to bake you a chocolate cake. Or ANY cake.
> 
> Not going to happen. Doesn't matter what Asian. Pakistani, Chinese, Indonesian, Korean... good luck with that cake. You will die of hunger first.
> 
> White people/women, on the other hand, can BAKE.
> 
> I like cake!
> 
> This is just a small example... there are many things they can do, we can't and many things we are very good at that they are not.
> 
> *"I (Allah) made you different tribes, so you could learn from each other. Not so you could despise each other".. Koran.*
> 
> 
> 
> My Uncle Richard was the only founding member of the Black Panthers that wasn't black. They all connected in S. Francisco in part to channel his fury and teach the group how to handle weapons.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That is very impressive.
> 
> As a member of the largest warrior tribe on earth (yes really), I can tell you "they" have been trying to disarm us for at least 200 years. The British tried and failed, the Soviets got their butts handed to them and my own Govt keeps trying now and then, runs around in circles flapping it's wings like a chicken and then forgets all about it for another decade or two.
> 
> America's founding fathers were right about how liberty and the right to have firearms, goes hand in hand.
Click to expand...

I like your style, and cake too! Also kites and boomerangs and sailing and generally quiet versions of assault so nobody can see where I am located. My slingshot is my second best friend. Life is strange.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## spewing

It's all diverged a bit.

Personally I'm all in favour.

You had better add quickly "slingshots are fun for the whole family" or this thread will get shut down as well.


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## Quercusuber

Before someone extinguishes this thread, here's some good news I want to share:









(pun intended. We gotta laugh a bit, folks...)


----------



## MOJAVE MO

Slingshots are fun and SAFE for the whole family!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Quercusuber

MOJAVE MO said:


> Slingshots are fun and SAFE for the whole family!
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Here, here!!!!


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## treefork




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## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


LOL!!!! 

At the school I work, they SPECIFICALLY demand that doors and/or windows be open, to renew air in the classrooms.

Kids are already complaining with cold. And we're not in the coldest months yet, by Portugal standards...

I really have to laugh at some of these rules!!


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## treefork




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## Pebble Shooter

This sounds ominous: https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-uk-news-update-tier-4-cases-b1776719.html


----------



## THWACK!

I live in south Florida, took my second Covid test two days ago (only took 20 minutes, throat swab in lieu of nose torture), and have already received good test results.

HOWEVER - everybody is wearing a mask and mostly maintaining their distance from each other.

I keep "social distance" by utilizing my motorcycle and a full-face helmet !!

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Griffo said:


> So how's it goin' in your neck of the woods ..?
> 
> In the UK the Government has made the wearing of face coverings in shops and other enclosed places mandatory from the 24th.
> 
> Face covering has a broad definition; face masks, bandanas, yer wife's panties. Whatever you like really, provided it's covering your face. This is going to be enforced by the plod with non-compliance meaning on the spot fines of £60.
> 
> Already the country is dividing into two camps - those who think this is great news and those who think it's utter nonsense. I tend to agree with the latter group more (for reasons, lack of evidence, virus is 80-120 nm making cloth masks useless etc).
> 
> Either way it's going to an interesting social experiment into public behaviour. How many will comply, how many will refuse? The police are objecting saying they have better things to do than enforce this, like fighting
> 
> THWACK! says: If I were to wear my lady's "panties" I'd be maskless and "out of uniform".
> 
> THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Sean Khan said:


> But masks don't work for this.
> 
> 
> 
> Even if they work 10% and are 90% useless, it'll have a braking effect on mass infection rates.
> 
> And they are certainly more effective than 10%.
> 
> I get it... you look like George Clooney and don't want to spoil it by wearing a mask.
> 
> Well I look like Keanu Reeves and I have no problem wearing one.
> 
> Is your Prime Minister wearing a mask these days? He got clobbered good... has he learnt something? Or he is having a panic reaction of some sort?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Asymptomatic people, no coughing, no droplet transmission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Asymptomatic people are often "super-spreaders". How does that happen, ever wonder?
> 
> Wearing masks also stops you from touching your face as often as one normally might just like wearing pants stops people from wanking off in public transport.
Click to expand...

Wearing pants stopped you from wanking off in public transport???? Really??? I'd refuse to pay the fare, considering such ridiculous restrictions. What ever happened to "WankWear" , anyway?

THWACK!


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## Hoss

Total mess!

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk


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## treefork




----------



## Sean Khan

> Wearing pants stopped you from wanking off in public transport????


No, not me. But I have sometimes found myself surrounded by wankers.

Public transport isn't pretty.

Thank goodness for Uber.


----------



## treefork




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## treefork




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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


LOL!!!!    Spot on!!!


----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


"Remember breathing properly like a human should do ...That was awesome!!!"


----------



## treefork




----------



## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


HERE, HERE!!!!!!


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## MOJAVE MO

Does anyone remember the 'Flu Season'? Has it already happened?!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## treefork

.


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## treefork




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## treefork

__
Sensitive content, not recommended for those under 18
Show Content


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## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


Fact-checkers are one of the most disgusting and biased things on the Internet today.

It was one of the reasons I've left Facebook.

In reality, Democracy only seems to exist if it complies with what "they" want. There's no Democracy at all...

Political correctness has reached, in my opinion, to an unbearable point in today's society.

The fear of being ostracized for telling what you feel or think is something out of a dystopian novel.


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## Quercusuber

Ooops! Double-post...


----------



## THWACK!

My county has administered 4,000 shots to old folks - I'm checking the website daily to make my appointment.

THWACK!

Sorry guys, no jokes - this is too serious a subject.


----------



## Stankard757

Being a First Responder waiting on my appointment. Had to many close calls already with it. Entire squad tested positive last month, had to deal with many people who were positive, but luckily haven't had it yet. Decided to get the vaccine when my department offered it mainly for the wife and kid.

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


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## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


 :rolling: :rolling: :rolling: LOL!!!


----------



## treefork




----------



## Cass

Hi I got my first dose of the Moderna vaccine today. Didn't feel a thing. Weird though, because my father who is 92 has not got his yet.


----------



## Cass

Hi, you know you don't have to listen to any news organizations at all. Read the science, forget the bullshit. As a retired science teacher I am appalled at the current situation in critical thinking. On both sides. Enough said.


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## Pebble Shooter

An update from Switzerland: https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/over-a-third-of-swiss-bought-covid-19-vaccines-have-been-administered/46309180


----------



## Cass

A I just got scheduled for my second dose.


----------



## treefork




----------



## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


Yup, this is the way truth is often portrayed on the Media.

Great example with only an image


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## treefork




----------



## Sean Khan

We sent a plane to China.









It returned with half a million doses. Mass vaccinations start tomorrow morning.

More to come from UK and Russia. The Chinese vaccine will be manufactured here.

Free for all citizens.


----------



## treefork

Trusting the vaccine made by the same country that engineered and spread the virus is like buying your ammunition from your enemy . :iono:


----------



## Sean Khan

Would you rather we get our other neighbor's vaccine... which they made out of cow dung.... or the other-other neighbor's vaccine....?... which was created by the *"Office of Enforcement of the Principles of Ayatolla Khomaini"*? (yes that is the name)

Both are as cheap as dirt.


----------



## THWACK!

A couple of days ago I waited in my car, which was very low on fuel so I didn't dare run the A/C, in line, 3.5 hours for my first vaccination, a la Pfizer.

Booster is on 2/17 - will bring Cheerios and a sippy cup, as well as a "P" container.

That first shot gave me arm pain for two days.

Lots of people in south Florida are sick and dying.

Since the announcement of Covid 19, I've kept indoors. I'll take m'lady to WalMart to shop (wearing mask and gloves) while I sit in my truck in the parking lot playing one of my tinwhistles. When I go out, it's only to exercise my Kawasaki and my motor scooter to keep them in shape. Motorcycling is the very definition of "social distancing", by several miles per hour :banana:

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Cass said:


> Hi, you know you don't have to listen to any news organizations at all. Read the science, forget the ****. As a retired science teacher I am appalled at the current situation in critical thinking. On both sides. Enough said.


My friend, "critical thinking" is no longer practiced, apparently not taught.

School classes in "Civics" no longer exist.

"Shop" classes are far and few between.

We are in another round of "Dark Ages", I'm afraid.

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

MOJAVE MO said:


> Pebble Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all start out in life with certain essential vaccinations against some rather nasty diseases (like polio, just to name one of them), and most people readily accept certain vaccinations before they travel to some parts of the world, where some other "interesting" viruses abound.
> 
> After having had a nice mix of vaccinations during my life (I'm age 56 as well) linked to international travel, including the annual flu jab without any complications whatsoever, I feel quite safe to have the Pfizer-Biontech or "Moderna" vaccination administered. I want to return to fairly normal living, and not have this unpleasant fear at the back of my mind of "what if..." when I'm in the presence of others while doing essential shopping, or going to the post office. I have kept away from restaurants, bars, and cafes ever since this frightening situation started out back in March in my part of the world, and have fully complied with the protective measures - including the wearing of face masks in stores, etc., which a certain Mr. Trump sees to despise with an "I'm OK, Jack" attitude, a stance that has worsened the situation throughout America.
> 
> My intuitive thinking is that it is better to take a calculated risk by accepting the vaccination (tested on 40,000 volunteers without problems!), as opposed to catching the real deal of Covid-19 ("CCP-Virus") and being open to potential **** because everyone reacts differently to this disease, with its mortality rate of 2-3 % (WHO statistics). I can nevertheless fully relate to those who express doubts about a new vaccine concocted within less than a year, but also assume that the (contained) Sars-2 outbreak in Hong Kong back in 2003 and subsequent research into a vaccine at that time, as well as knowledge related to the influenza virus (the standard annual flu, which is also part of the wonderful corona virus family) laid the foundations for the new vaccines in a context of unprecedented global cooperation.
> 
> I therefore feel that the vaccine is most likely a safe option for all to consider seriously to end this terrible pandemic, which bears many similarities with the so-called "Spanish Flu" of 1918-19, even if virus mutations and numerous unknowns, such as the duration of the protection, prevail at this stage. The way I see it is that the new vaccination will give the body some form of "identification" code with regard to the disease, as opposed to it being totally defenseless as is presently the case. I do not think that it will change us into genetically modified "zombies", as in any case everything we eat is based on multiple DNA-based genetic structures. Yes, even that hamburger at Mc-Do.
> 
> My 2 cents worth...it's up to everyone to decide what is best for them - along with the risks of not being vaccinated.
> 
> I will get the vaccination done ASAP. Meanwhile, I'll be shooting at corona virus drawings on corrugated cardboard. B)
> 
> 
> 
> I can see and here that you have been around the block a few times. However, I am going to take a minute this morning to clarify my position a little better. If you and I spent the time to create a Covid-19 dissertation from every single country in the world we would find very few that would agree with even their closest bordering neighbor. As a small sample of this it common knowledge that every American has been taught that Canada is a 3rd World country. I imagine that Canadians are told that the US is where you go to get genital herpes or a bullet in leg if you are lucky. My point is that we cannot even agree worldwide on how to manage the Seasonal Flu. BTW---where did that virus go?! More importantly why aren't the world's homeless not all dead by now?
> I would like to point out that myself, wife, and three kids (2 adult kids) have only changed our Virus Crisis life pattern so as not to get hassled by the brown shirts walking around trying to shame the population. My extended family works in senior private healthcare. We have seen ZERO infections or death in our circle of influence. How is this possible in a 'devastating pandemic that is going to kill us all if we don't heed the warnings'??
> And finally. TRUMP. I want to say this part louder than the rest but I will avoid capitalization! Every single president in the history has been, and will always be a corrupt figure head that is in charge of only ONE single element of the United States. This is the ability to begin and sustain a war against our enemies. The 50 States in the country all play by their own rules. I live in N. Carolina that has their own Covid-19 rules. I can drive 45mins to S. Carolina and have a whole different set of rules. My family in California can have the power and water shut-off if a neighbor calls the Covid-19 Emergency Hotline because my Mom, Sister, and Brother and their families decide to have a Sunday dinner together. I can buy an ounce of Ganja in Nevada, but not in Utah which is an hour away. Guess where all the Mormon's go to find the brain food??!
> My final punctuation. My view on my country and the governing of people is deeply and genetically suspicious. My Great Grandmother married a Japanese man. Aside from generations of the B.S. to follow she was stripped of her US Citizenship for this vile indiscretion. The government tried to destroy every fiber of my family and we are still not happy about it. A few years back a dozen of us or so were called by the State of California to apologize and gave each of us a check for $20kusd. I was furious, probably still am. Not at the dollar amount. It was the admission of stupidity.
> My Uncle Richard was the only founding member of the Black Panthers that wasn't black. They all connected in S. Francisco in part to channel his fury and teach the group how to handle weapons. To this day I still get a call once a year by the FBI to ask me 'how I am doing'.
> I am part of the Silent Majority in the US that has had enough of being lied to, taxed to the hilt, a medical penalty tax that costs me the amount of a house payment--$1700usd a month whether I use it or not. I get taxed to buy a car, then pay another tax in order to be allowed to drive. I pay a tax to have a job. Even with that monthly medical fee my medical insurance company was just billed $250 for a PHONE Dr. Appt! I am supposed to be thrilled that my out of pocket portion was only $110!?
> Okay. Right now I am a wild dog on a rant of destruction. SUMMARY:
> Imagine for one second that one of us is being lied too? My family has already taken that train ride to a place where they would be safe. That ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I hardly missed a day of school, and have had many days/years in school, yet never have I heard any teacher, or anyone else for that matter, describe Canada as a "Third world country".

What is the unquestionable source behind your statement please, as I wish to be fully "edumumcated"?

Thank you,

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

High Desert Flipper said:


> Some perspective


Kokopelli with a slingshot!!!!!!!! Luvit!!!!!!!

I'm awaiting my 2nd native American flute (after acquiring about 14 tinwhistles/pennywhistles/Irish whistles over 23 years.

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Tag said:


> We are seeing more cases in our rural area.. thankfully the cases I know of are short lived. I was helping a mechanic friend work on a customer's car and when we opened the car door we seen a large coffee cup, a mask and spray disinfectant Always good to be prepared


Yes! Always be prepared if you are caffeine addicted!!

...like me...

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Tag said:


> Our niece teaches first grade in an awesome small rural school that WAS covid free until now. One of her fellow teachers daughter contracted COVID they believe she contracted the virus at a wedding. Their reasoning is there were a few new cases that all progressed at the same time from people that attended the wedding.


Never kiss the bride.

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Pebble Shooter said:


> Talking about the relevance of protective face masks, this is quite interesting:
> 
> "Face masks could be giving people Covid-19 immunity, researchers suggest"
> 
> "Mask wearing might also be reducing the severity of the virus and ensuring that a greater proportion of new infections are asymptomatic"
> 
> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/face-masks-could-giving-people-covid-19-immunity-researchers/
> 
> Makes sense to me. What do you think?


I think that since I've "self-quarantined" since the very first mention of the virus, I'm beginning to like myself more than before. Yup, we're getting along just fine - me, myself, and I.

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

Sean Khan said:


> Meanwhile, people living near the mountains risk their lives to get fast internet for online school because normal schools/universities are closed .....basically they have to climb a mountain to get a signal.
> 
> And then they have to climb down again. *Every day.*
> 
> https://www.dawn.com/news/1573665/risking-our-lives-students-in-gilgit-kp-climb-mountains-trek-miles-to-attend-online-classes
> 
> This place here. Pretty.. but internet is iffy.


Watch how these students risks their lives every day just to attend school.

THWACK!


----------



## Sean Khan

Daayyum..... Compared to those places, northern Pakistan is a walk in the park. Our "kids" aren't that little either... more like high school or college. Just need to get high enough to catch a WiFi signal. Schools are open now however so I think they are fine.

*Mudasir Alam (R) and his friend work on a laptop sitting across a river in GB.*










*Karishma Nadir and her friends work on their laptops, sitting atop a hill hoping to catch internet signals, in Booni, Chitral. (dawg is wondering "crazy people....")*


----------



## MOJAVE MO

THWACK! said:


> MOJAVE MO said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pebble Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> We all start out in life with certain essential vaccinations against some rather nasty diseases (like polio, just to name one of them), and most people readily accept certain vaccinations before they travel to some parts of the world, where some other "interesting" viruses abound.
> 
> After having had a nice mix of vaccinations during my life (I'm age 56 as well) linked to international travel, including the annual flu jab without any complications whatsoever, I feel quite safe to have the Pfizer-Biontech or "Moderna" vaccination administered. I want to return to fairly normal living, and not have this unpleasant fear at the back of my mind of "what if..." when I'm in the presence of others while doing essential shopping, or going to the post office. I have kept away from restaurants, bars, and cafes ever since this frightening situation started out back in March in my part of the world, and have fully complied with the protective measures - including the wearing of face masks in stores, etc., which a certain Mr. Trump sees to despise with an "I'm OK, Jack" attitude, a stance that has worsened the situation throughout America.
> 
> My intuitive thinking is that it is better to take a calculated risk by accepting the vaccination (tested on 40,000 volunteers without problems!), as opposed to catching the real deal of Covid-19 ("CCP-Virus") and being open to potential **** because everyone reacts differently to this disease, with its mortality rate of 2-3 % (WHO statistics). I can nevertheless fully relate to those who express doubts about a new vaccine concocted within less than a year, but also assume that the (contained) Sars-2 outbreak in Hong Kong back in 2003 and subsequent research into a vaccine at that time, as well as knowledge related to the influenza virus (the standard annual flu, which is also part of the wonderful corona virus family) laid the foundations for the new vaccines in a context of unprecedented global cooperation.
> 
> I therefore feel that the vaccine is most likely a safe option for all to consider seriously to end this terrible pandemic, which bears many similarities with the so-called "Spanish Flu" of 1918-19, even if virus mutations and numerous unknowns, such as the duration of the protection, prevail at this stage. The way I see it is that the new vaccination will give the body some form of "identification" code with regard to the disease, as opposed to it being totally defenseless as is presently the case. I do not think that it will change us into genetically modified "zombies", as in any case everything we eat is based on multiple DNA-based genetic structures. Yes, even that hamburger at Mc-Do.
> 
> My 2 cents worth...it's up to everyone to decide what is best for them - along with the risks of not being vaccinated.
> 
> I will get the vaccination done ASAP. Meanwhile, I'll be shooting at corona virus drawings on corrugated cardboard. B)
> 
> 
> 
> I can see and here that you have been around the block a few times. However, I am going to take a minute this morning to clarify my position a little better. If you and I spent the time to create a Covid-19 dissertation from every single country in the world we would find very few that would agree with even their closest bordering neighbor. As a small sample of this it common knowledge that every American has been taught that Canada is a 3rd World country. I imagine that Canadians are told that the US is where you go to get genital herpes or a bullet in leg if you are lucky. My point is that we cannot even agree worldwide on how to manage the Seasonal Flu. BTW---where did that virus go?! More importantly why aren't the world's homeless not all dead by now?
> I would like to point out that myself, wife, and three kids (2 adult kids) have only changed our Virus Crisis life pattern so as not to get hassled by the brown shirts walking around trying to shame the population. My extended family works in senior private healthcare. We have seen ZERO infections or death in our circle of influence. How is this possible in a 'devastating pandemic that is going to kill us all if we don't heed the warnings'??
> And finally. TRUMP. I want to say this part louder than the rest but I will avoid capitalization! Every single president in the history has been, and will always be a corrupt figure head that is in charge of only ONE single element of the United States. This is the ability to begin and sustain a war against our enemies. The 50 States in the country all play by their own rules. I live in N. Carolina that has their own Covid-19 rules. I can drive 45mins to S. Carolina and have a whole different set of rules. My family in California can have the power and water shut-off if a neighbor calls the Covid-19 Emergency Hotline because my Mom, Sister, and Brother and their families decide to have a Sunday dinner together. I can buy an ounce of Ganja in Nevada, but not in Utah which is an hour away. Guess where all the Mormon's go to find the brain food??!
> My final punctuation. My view on my country and the governing of people is deeply and genetically suspicious. My Great Grandmother married a Japanese man. Aside from generations of the B.S. to follow she was stripped of her US Citizenship for this vile indiscretion. The government tried to destroy every fiber of my family and we are still not happy about it. A few years back a dozen of us or so were called by the State of California to apologize and gave each of us a check for $20kusd. I was furious, probably still am. Not at the dollar amount. It was the admission of stupidity.
> My Uncle Richard was the only founding member of the Black Panthers that wasn't black. They all connected in S. Francisco in part to channel his fury and teach the group how to handle weapons. To this day I still get a call once a year by the FBI to ask me 'how I am doing'.
> I am part of the Silent Majority in the US that has had enough of being lied to, taxed to the hilt, a medical penalty tax that costs me the amount of a house payment--$1700usd a month whether I use it or not. I get taxed to buy a car, then pay another tax in order to be allowed to drive. I pay a tax to have a job. Even with that monthly medical fee my medical insurance company was just billed $250 for a PHONE Dr. Appt! I am supposed to be thrilled that my out of pocket portion was only $110!?
> Okay. Right now I am a wild dog on a rant of destruction. SUMMARY:
> Imagine for one second that one of us is being lied too? My family has already taken that train ride to a place where they would be safe. That ain't gonna happen again.
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I hardly missed a day of school, and have had many days/years in school, yet never have I heard any teacher, or anyone else for that matter, describe Canada as a "Third world country".
> What is the unquestionable source behind your statement please, as I wish to be fully "edumumcated"?
> 
> Thank you,
> THWACK!
Click to expand...

The point I made as well as indicated in my rant is that we are told everyday how people do it 'over there', or 'across the ocean', and in all cases the 'state next door'. My family lives in Scotland, New Zealand, and N. California. I can say firsthand that what each of them understand about this virus crisis, and how their government is responding to it are all vastly different. Summary: We are told what we are told.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MOJAVE MO

treefork said:


> Trusting the vaccine made by the same country that engineered and spread the virus is like buying your ammunition from your enemy . :iono:


I said something similar about the executioner asking me to sharpen my own guillotine and actually was asked to explain what I meant by that statement.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sean Khan

You know... I had Covid. It was terrible for a few days. And it is not what the websites say.

1. No high temperature. Occasional temp only. Maybe 99 degrees. Otherwise you are fine.

2. Tummy and digestion shot to h-e-ll. You HATE the idea of food. For a few days I basically lived on oranges and eggs and tomato soup. That's it.

3. No shortness of breath. I checked myself with an oxygen meter all the time. It was fine.

4. Abdominal muscular weakness. Can't stand straight for more than a few minutes.

5. From 210 pounds to 177 pounds. (6 feet tall) But yeah I feel great NOW. I needed to lose all that weight. I will try to keep it off.

6. Will to live. GONE.

7. Joy in being alive. GONE.

8. EVERYTHING looks like it's made of poo.

9. Any feelings of sex.... hahahahahaha.... fuggetaboutit! (Oh it does come back like a Tsunami after a month.. all those hormones are going into storage somewhere... it's not like they weren't being produced.)

Point is, I went through it.

*But this was NOTHING compared to Swine Flu.*

*Swine flu nearly killed me. AND it made me colorblind for 24 hours. Nothing else ever made me go colorblind.*

And where did swine flu come from???

USA/Mexico.

Do I blame America for Swine Flu? The thing that was ten times worse than Covid (at least for me)?

I do not.

So stop blaming China for COVID. That monkey in the White House is gone. You don't need to do it anymore.

Yes, I know eating Chinese food is almost the same as eating poo.... all the "Chinese food" we love is actually AMERICAN-Chinese food.. or PAKISTANI-chinese food. We can't eat REAL Chinese food. I sure won't eat a bat. But then I can blame Americans for eating pork.. which I would never touch. *But I do not blame Americans for eating pork. That would be dumb. *So let the Chinese eat bats, lizards, eggs soaked in pee, bugs, snakes.... I am nobody to judge.

All I can say is, China has never let us down. Ever. They are our best friends.

And they have a capacity to produce enough for us and themselves. All other vaccines are being delayed. Nobody else has China's industrial capacity.

And the vaccine works. We tested it.


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## Pebble Shooter

"Russia's Sputnik vaccine shows 91.6% efficacy in clinical trials". Read here:

https://www.ft.com/content/1180d24e-eeaf-4316-a507-3108bba52c28

The EU failed to order a sufficient number of vaccines (overpaid bureaucrats, what else?) which has brought the Europe-wide vaccination campaign to a halt. Switzerland is running its own show (not an EU member, thank goodness), so I hope that they'll order some of the Russian vaccines to meet the federal nationwide objectives by summertime.


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## Sean Khan

Russia's Sputnik vaccine is also one of the ones we have OK'ed for use.

We have OK'ed three... the Chinese one, the Oxford one (17 million doses coming in March) and Sputnik.

These should be more than enough.


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## Sean Khan

I stand corrected.

And I don't blame the Mexicans either for eating pork and eventually giving me one of my life's worst experiences.... raping me with a broomstick would've been kinder.... these bloody viruses can pop up from anywhere these days.

BTW we don't have pigs in this country... yet I still got it.


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## MOJAVE MO

Sean Khan said:


> I stand corrected.
> 
> And I don't blame the Mexicans either for eating pork and eventually giving me one of my life's worst experiences.... raping me with a broomstick would've been kinder.... these bloody viruses can pop up from anywhere these days.
> 
> BTW we don't have pigs in this country... yet I still got it.


Hold Fire!! You do understand that I am not correcting your memory or flow of information? I think it my own way I am pointing out a conspiracy at best. Imagine if everything we are told from the media and government was a lie with the goal of turning us against each other, or against each others countries, or into obedient followers of our rulers.

I can tell you know enough about the world and the USA as well to understand that if our media and government over here told us enough times that Ireland and Iceland were the same thing we would eventually believe it and go on our merry way. Worse yet if we are told that either of those two countries had Nuclear Warheads pointed in our direction and were a threat to our 'freedoms' we would figure out way to remove them from the world map and somehow feel good doing it. My personal mantra: Believe nothing, question everything.


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## Sean Khan

> You do understand that I am not correcting your memory or flow of information?


Yep.



> Worse yet if we are told that either of those two countries had Nuclear Warheads pointed in our direction and were a threat to our 'freedoms' we would figure out way to remove them from the world map and somehow feel good doing it.


I know.

And we'll probably nuke 'em before you do.

EDIT: And slingshots are good fun for the whole bloody family.


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## MOJAVE MO

For some reason I felt compelled to see what my state government thought about me carrying my slingshot into Costco. I am almost guessing that this 'law' was written sometime around when the North defeated the South in the 'War of Northern Aggression'. This reads that it is probable that if I carry my slingshot in a holster strung low on my thigh then at best the cops would be called in to confiscate my ammo and to make sure I was carrying my COVID-19 Vaccination Card at all times.

....North Carolina law strictly controls the ability of individuals to carry weapons concealed.

Except under the limited concealed handgun permit provisions of State law, described in

Sections III. B and III. C of this publication, it is unlawful for any person in North Carolina,

except when on his or her own premises, to willfully and intentionally carry concealed, either on

or about his or her person, any "Bowie Knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot, loaded cane, metallic

knuckles, razor, shurikin, stungun, or other deadly weapon of like kind." Specifically exempted

from the requirements of this law are ordinary pocket knives carried in a closed position. An

ordinary pocket knife is defined as being "a small knife, that is designed to be carried in a pocket

or purse, which has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle. The knife must not

be capable of being opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action." N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-269.......


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## Sean Khan

Oh... one more thing about Covid that no website or doctor tells you.....

Your brain becomes super-charged and you remember EVERY little detail since you were like 4 years old, if you make an effort. It happened to me and it happened to my sister too. So it's a thing indeed.

Like I was talking to someone about the news industry and I thought to myself "what was the name of my old school newspaper?"

I had left that school when I was like 7 and the newspaper only showed up like once every 6 months. A dumb 4 page paper... most boring thing ever.... and it just came out of nowhere... "NOMAD".

"Who was that pretty girl who played the victim in that show 25 years ago....?"... and BANG... I got the name that wasn't coming to me for the last 25 years.

And I did it again and again.

And the effect seems to be permanent so far.


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## THWACK!

Sean Khan said:


> Daayyum..... Compared to those places, northern Pakistan is a walk in the park. Our "kids" aren't that little either... more like high school or college. Just need to get high enough to catch a WiFi signal. Schools are open now however so I think they are fine.
> 
> *Mudasir Alam (R) and his friend work on a laptop sitting across a river in GB.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Karishma Nadir and her friends work on their laptops, sitting atop a hill hoping to catch internet signals, in Booni, Chitral. (dawg is wondering "crazy people....")*


All things are relative. Little children risking their lives, in every way, every day, for a few hours of elementary school. That's how precious/important school is to them and their poverty stricken parents, desperate seekers of a way out of their daily misery. Internet? No way.

The videos I provided are a small part of a series on YT, showing the hardships kids endure in places all over the world, every day, just trying to go to and return to home from a very basic education.

The kids and parents are determined, they accept the enormous risks, and you won't hear their kids say "I think I'll just play hooky* today" (*take an unearned day off from school, just for the heck of it).

The series vividly shows how very important at least a very basic education is to some people.

Bravery, courage, commitment - bless them.

THWACK!


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## THWACK!

MOJAVE MO said:


> For some reason I felt compelled to see what my state government thought about me carrying my slingshot into Costco. I am almost guessing that this 'law' was written sometime around when the North defeated the South in the 'War of Northern Aggression'. This reads that it is probable that if I carry my slingshot in a holster strung low on my thigh then at best the cops would be called in to confiscate my ammo and to make sure I was carrying my COVID-19 Vaccination Card at all times.
> 
> ....North Carolina law strictly controls the ability of individuals to carry weapons concealed.
> 
> Except under the limited concealed handgun permit provisions of State law, described in
> 
> Sections III. B and III. C of this publication, it is unlawful for any person in North Carolina,
> 
> except when on his or her own premises, to willfully and intentionally carry concealed, either on
> 
> or about his or her person, any "Bowie Knife, dirk, dagger, slingshot, loaded cane, metallic
> 
> knuckles, razor, shurikin, stungun, or other deadly weapon of like kind." Specifically exempted
> 
> from the requirements of this law are ordinary pocket knives carried in a closed position. An
> 
> ordinary pocket knife is defined as being "a small knife, that is designed to be carried in a pocket
> 
> or purse, which has its cutting edge and point entirely enclosed by its handle. The knife must not
> 
> be capable of being opened by a throwing, explosive, or spring action." N.C. Gen. Stat. § 14-269.......


I understand that in NYC, legislators had a "scribner's error", when they put into law that slingshots were considered illegal, when it was supposed to read "slungshot", "a weight affixed to a cord". It was never corrected.

THWACk!


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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


> Trusting the vaccine made by the same country that engineered and spread the virus is like buying your ammunition from your enemy . :iono:


My vacine: Portuguese Red Wine, from the South of Portugal (Alentejo)

Thoroughly tested, with good results. 97% efficacy, from the best batch of Mediterranean sun-bathed grapes.

I can dispense some doses to you, not too many though... vials are very fragile to export.


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## spewing

Quercusuber said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trusting the vaccine made by the same country that engineered and spread the virus is like buying your ammunition from your enemy . :iono:
> 
> 
> 
> My vacine: Portuguese Red Wine, from the South of Portugal (Alentejo)
> 
> Thoroughly tested, with good results. 97% efficacy, from the best batch of Mediterranean sun-bathed grapes.
> 
> I can dispense some doses to you, not too many though... vials are very fragile to export.
Click to expand...

Don't worry about posting.

Just as soon as were allowed out again I'll come and pick some up again in person.


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## Quercusuber

spewing said:


> Quercusuber said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trusting the vaccine made by the same country that engineered and spread the virus is like buying your ammunition from your enemy . :iono:
> 
> 
> 
> My vacine: Portuguese Red Wine, from the South of Portugal (Alentejo)
> 
> Thoroughly tested, with good results. 97% efficacy, from the best batch of Mediterranean sun-bathed grapes.
> 
> I can dispense some doses to you, not too many though... vials are very fragile to export.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't worry about posting.
> 
> Just as soon as were allowed out again I'll come and pick some up again in person.
Click to expand...

LOL!!! That's the spirit


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## Sean Khan

One more thing about COVID.

It kills by restricting oxygen. Causes organ damage.

If that is not the case, then it kills by dehydration. You don't get diarrhea .. you get SUPER-diarrhea! Good times! :thumbsup:

The only solution is...

1. ORS... it's a liquid solution that restores all the electrolytes you lost. Keep drinking it. That or lemonade. And more water than you think you need.

2. Fiber. Plant husk fiber stops this thing cold.

















3. Lomotil (which is half-atropin) if you need it.

Otherwise whatever you eat is wasted. You are losing energy (and fluids) until you're dead. Usually starts with kidney failure.


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## Sean Khan

Thank you China!






We were getting their vaccines even when they didn't have enough for themselves.... one more reason why we have such a low death rate.


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## mattwalt

THWACK! said:


> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Daayyum..... Compared to those places, northern Pakistan is a walk in the park. Our "kids" aren't that little either... more like high school or college. Just need to get high enough to catch a WiFi signal. Schools are open now however so I think they are fine.
> 
> *Mudasir Alam (R) and his friend work on a laptop sitting across a river in GB.*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Karishma Nadir and her friends work on their laptops, sitting atop a hill hoping to catch internet signals, in Booni, Chitral. (dawg is wondering "crazy people....")*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> All things are relative. Little children risking their lives, in every way, every day, for a few hours of elementary school. That's how precious/important school is to them and their poverty stricken parents, desperate seekers of a way out of their daily misery. Internet? No way.
> 
> The videos I provided are a small part of a series on YT, showing the hardships kids endure in places all over the world, every day, just trying to go to and return to home from a very basic education.
> 
> The kids and parents are determined, they accept the enormous risks, and you won't hear their kids say "I think I'll just play hooky* today" (*take an unearned day off from school, just for the heck of it).
> 
> The series vividly shows how very important at least a very basic education is to some people.
> 
> Bravery, courage, commitment - bless them.
> 
> THWACK!
Click to expand...

School was deemed so important in Portugal they forced kids to remain in schools (which have been severely hit by the virus). Part of the reason was to ensure certain kids had access to an actual meal. But its now become one of the reasons Portugal is one of the worst hit (per population) in the world. Schools finally closed about 2 weeks ago - and will ALL be going fully online in about a week.

Its scary how many people are dying of the disease who I actually know. My father-in-law passed away early Christmas morning in South Africa after an over 2 week battle with the virus. His death was lonely and degrading.

Stay safe.


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## Sean Khan

*Vaccination drives kick off simultaneously across country*










A health worker reacts while receiving a dose of the Sinopharm vaccine, donated by China, at a vaccination centre in Karachi on February 3, 2021. - Reuters

Vaccination drives against the novel coronavirus started simultaneously in all federating units of the country on Wednesday, a day after 500,000 doses of the vaccine arrived in Islamabad as a gift from China.

The first jab of the vaccine was administered to a doctor in Islamabad yesterday.










Prime Minister Imran Khan witnesses the first Chinese-made Covid-19 vaccine being administered to a frontline health worker in Islamabad on February 2.

Dr Sultan, in his address, assured the nation of the vaccine's efficacy saying that the vaccine had "been tested on thousands [of people] and has proven to be safe and effective so we don't need to worry".

"Let me tell you something about the Sinopharm vaccine," he said. *"It is a good vaccine, its efficacy is between 79-86 per cent."*

He expressed hope that *by the end of the year, the government would be able to vaccinate 70pc of the eligible population, which amounts to 100 million people.*

He added that more than 500 vaccine centres had been established and according to the current capacity, 40,000 people can be vaccinated daily. The government was aiming to increase this number, he said.


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## MOJAVE MO

Sean Khan said:


> One more thing about COVID.
> 
> It kills by restricting oxygen. Causes organ damage.
> 
> If that is not the case, then it kills by dehydration. You don't get diarrhea .. you get SUPER-diarrhea! Good times! :thumbsup:
> 
> The only solution is...
> 
> 1. ORS... it's a liquid solution that restores all the electrolytes you lost. Keep drinking it. That or lemonade. And more water than you think you need.
> 
> 2. Fiber. Plant husk fiber stops this thing cold.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16123324583240.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 16123324583961.jpg
> 
> 3. Lomotil (which is half-atropin) if you need it.
> 
> Otherwise whatever you eat is wasted. You are losing energy (and fluids) until you're dead. Usually starts with kidney failure.


Good stuff Sean. Since the brain is an organ (isn't it?), I wonder why you memory was enhanced after your recovered? Maybe the virus deletes things like your memory for passcodes but let's you remember what happened on your 3rd birthday?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Sean Khan

> I wonder why you memory was enhanced after your recovered?


I thought about it and it might not be a good thing. Like they say your life flashes in your head right before you die... you get to remember everything?

I have no idea how long this effect will last.

Memory isn't the only thing that is enhanced.

I couldn't look at anything (or anyone) without thinking of humping it (them).

Fortunately THAT wore off in less than a month.



> Maybe the virus deletes things like your memory for passcodes but let's you remember what happened on your 3rd birthday?


LOL. You don't feel any smarter. But if you search your head for a name or place or face, it's just there in a flash. It just comes to you.

Might even be an effect of me losing all that weight. I feel a lot lighter now. Maybe the rest of the body, including the brain, is getting a relief from losing all that weight? (from 210 pounds to 177... height 6 feet)


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## Sean Khan

More planeloads are being readied. And trucks are also bringing it across the Pak-China border crossing.

At this rate we might not even need the Russian vaccine.

Our fight should be won in less than a year.


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## THWACK!

Quercusuber said:


> spewing said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Quercusuber said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Trusting the vaccine made by the same country that engineered and spread the virus is like buying your ammunition from your enemy . :iono:
> 
> 
> 
> My vacine: Portuguese Red Wine, from the South of Portugal (Alentejo)
> 
> Thoroughly tested, with good results. 97% efficacy, from the best batch of Mediterranean sun-bathed grapes.
> 
> I can dispense some doses to you, not too many though... vials are very fragile to export.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Don't worry about posting.
> 
> Just as soon as were allowed out again I'll come and pick some up again in person.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> LOL!!! That's the spirit
Click to expand...

"That's the spirit" - hey, I see what you did there - that was punny, quite punny.. pretty much like what I enjoy doing.

THWACK!


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## THWACK!

I've been self-quarantined since the words "Covid 19" and "Coronavirus" came out. I'll be 76 years old in April, and I've too many things to enjoy doing before I croak.

So, I very rarely leave my house, not even spending time in my patio.

First thing that I noticed is that my lips became and remained quite dry for some time - not very good for a guy who toots with flutes.

And lately, my dog's dander has been making my nose miserable, very miserable. It sneezes and runs (the nose, not the dog) but gets nowhere. "Claritin" and I have become very acquainted.

I'll be receiving my booster shot February 17. After that, I won't be afraid to leave the house, and open some windows when I'm home.

...and I'll ride my Kawasaki more... :wave:

THWACK!



























One of theses days I'll learn how to "attach" images correctly...


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## Quercusuber

THWACK! said:


> I've been self-quarantined since the words "Covid 19" and "Coronavirus" came out. I'll be 76 years old in April, and I've too many things to enjoy doing before I croak.
> 
> So, I very rarely leave my house, not even spending time in my patio.
> 
> First thing that I noticed is that my lips became and remained quite dry for some time - not very good for a guy who toots with flutes.
> 
> And lately, my dog's dander has been making my nose miserable, very miserable. It sneezes and runs (the nose, not the dog) but gets nowhere. "Claritin" and I have become very acquainted.
> 
> I'll be receiving my booster shot February 17. After that, I won't be afraid to leave the house, and open some windows when I'm home.
> 
> ...and I'll ride my Kawasaki more... :wave:
> 
> THWACK!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_53521.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_53521.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_87771.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_70942.JPG
> 
> One of theses days I'll learn how to "attach" images correctly...


That last image you've posted is supposed to be any medical advance on vaccination??

...because it sure boosted my immunity


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## THWACK!

Quercusuber said:


> THWACK! said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been self-quarantined since the words "Covid 19" and "Coronavirus" came out. I'll be 76 years old in April, and I've too many things to enjoy doing before I croak.
> 
> So, I very rarely leave my house, not even spending time in my patio.
> 
> First thing that I noticed is that my lips became and remained quite dry for some time - not very good for a guy who toots with flutes.
> 
> And lately, my dog's dander has been making my nose miserable, very miserable. It sneezes and runs (the nose, not the dog) but gets nowhere. "Claritin" and I have become very acquainted.
> 
> I'll be receiving my booster shot February 17. After that, I won't be afraid to leave the house, and open some windows when I'm home.
> 
> ...and I'll ride my Kawasaki more... :wave:
> 
> THWACK!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_53521.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_53521.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_87771.JPG
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_70942.JPG
> 
> One of theses days I'll learn how to "attach" images correctly...
> 
> 
> 
> That last image you've posted is supposed to be any medical advance on vaccination??
> 
> ...because it sure boosted my immunity
Click to expand...

As I stated under the attachments - I really have to get "ahold" of how to properly attach images. Sometimes they're sideways, sometimes I'll send doubles. and sometimes something happens inadvertently. Ah, you noticed and got a rise from the inadvertent. Yeah, stuff happens...things get out of control, you know how it is. Heck, we just have to deal with things, part of life...you seem to be able to get ahold of things ok.

THWACK!


----------



## Sean Khan

*Covid enhanced memory-flash from this morning....*

*Sean discovers how the world works when Sean was 3!*

Momma paid the fruit-walla some cash for a bunch of mangoes. The fruit-walla gave her some of his own money (much later, I learnt that was called "change"). And we got in the car and left with the mangoes.

So..

1. We want something (mangoes). We get our pretty green 10 Rupees notes and gave them to the fruit walla. Fruit walla is happy... we gave him good colored currency notes. He trusts us now. He thinks his mangoes will go to a good home. So he gives us mangoes.

2. But before we take his mangoes, momma needs to trust him too. So we insist he show us what he's got. So the fruit walla reaches into a box and pulls out brown colored currency notes (5 Rupees). Momma makes a face and takes them and we drive off.

3. We give him pretty green money and he gives us dirty brown money. WHY? Obviously this guy is a bastard with trust issues. Or he had a fight with his wife and was having a bad day...???... Nawww... he was just a bastard.

Gawd I was stoopid....


----------



## treefork




----------



## Sean Khan

That is a metrosexual. Not man, not woman, not even gay. And well on it's way to not being a mammal.

But what has any of that got anything to do with COVID?


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## Sean Khan

As I had mentioned earlier, more vaccine arrived from China today (for free... they are not charging us anything).

https://tribune.com.pk/story/2283121/china-donates-covid-19-vaccines-to-pakistan-army

I think this will cover ALL the "front line" doctors and nurses in this country.

So far only 12,000 people have died of COVID (out of 220 million). The death rate is low mainly because we have an awesome Surgeon-General.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigar_Johar

https://imagevars.gulfnews.com/2020/06/30/Lt-General-*****-Johar_173053f92fc_large.jpg

Sometimes women just do stuff better.


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## MOJAVE MO

In the USA we are not really sure how many people have died. In part because if you get killed by a drunk driver who had Covid, then you also got killed by Covid. This is a tool we use in the USA to help track what is what. Many of you should find this fun-fact interesting. Go to Google and put in the words Covid-19 and any combination of a 3 digit number up to 999. No other words. Example: Covid-19 471. Try it again with 174 or even 008. Any and all explanations to this phenomena are welcome!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## SJAaz

Mo...I tried it.

Hmmmm...Some huge data bank searches for the covid-19 and the three numbers. So you may get results from Pago Pago or Rocksprings Wyoming.


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## Sean Khan

> if you get killed by a drunk driver who had Covid, then you also got killed by Covid.


Are you serious? Why on earth would anyone do that?


----------



## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> if you get killed by a drunk driver who had Covid, then you also got killed by Covid.
> 
> 
> 
> Are you serious? Why on earth would anyone do that?
Click to expand...

Depends on wether you want a high death rate (look how bad this evil thing is) or a low death rate (look how well were doing keeping things under control)

In the UK the figure quoted is people who have died within 28 days of a positive test.

You could be over it and run over by a bus but that is technically a Covid death.

More realistically people who would have died from an underlying condition, cancer, heart disease etc. are being counted as having died of Covid

Guess there isn't a world wide standard definition, just how individual governments want to manipulate figures:


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## mattwalt

Considering how you die from covid - its generally an underlying condition....

Father-in-Law - went from struggling to breath - to being put on artificial breathing machine - to kidney failure (dialysis) to death over a period of 2 weeks. I suspect he may well have died from a heart attack as complication to Covid. He was isolated with family not able to access him with only sporadic updates from nurses and the daily doc check-in. Also he was under physical care from nurses. Being someone who loved having family around and a soft warm bed - think he'd rather have taken his own life than endure the 2 weeks in hospital.

Unfortunately the number of people I know personally who have died from the disease is heart-wrenching.

Portugal has started flying out more severe patients to Spain and Austria. Its gone from one of the best countries dealing with the pandemic to literally the worst - after making some ultimately poor decisions over the festive period and the beginning of the new year. Apparently the number of ambulances queued with patients looking to be admitted has them waiting (apparently up to 8 hours) - which has resulted in deaths which could have been avoided.


----------



## Sean Khan

> or a low death rate (look how well were doing keeping things under control)


When this thing first appeared, we had *lockdowns*. Very strict ones, Chinese style. When they cut off the fuel supply to all petrol pumps, you get an automatic lockdown anyway.

Then they changed that to *smart-lockdowns. *They used some software they use to track terrorists to figure out if you met someone with COVID and who else you meet. Then they would gather all those contacts and test them and kidnap the positive ones and take them to an isolation facility (in happier times it's known as the "airforce museum").

Now we have *micro-lockdowns*. It's like one person in a flat tests positive, the whole apartment building is locked down (no citywide lockdowns any more).

Oh... you need to go out to get food supplies??? Sorry mate... go eat your own poo for 2 weeks. Or eat whatever the cops bring you... which might as well be poo.

Oh.. smart guy ordered pizza? Well pizza guy has to go through the cops to get to you. You ain't never getting that pizza.

My point is, just because we can speak English, people forget we are very much Asian. When it comes to situations like this... covid whatnot... we don't believe in civil liberties or "freedoms".... I sure don't ...and neither does the govt. That turned out to be a good thing.

And despite all of the above, I still caught the darn thing. :headbang:


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## Sean Khan

CanSinoBIO's Covid-19 vaccine 74.8pc effective in Pakistan trials

CanSino Biologics Inc's (CanSinoBIO) Covid-19 vaccine showed *74.8 per cent efficacy in preventing symptomatic cases* *and a 100pc success rate in stopping severe disease* among Pakistanis in an interim analysis.

In the global trials, the efficacy of the vaccine at preventing symptomatic cases was 65.7pc and 90.98pc at preventing severe disease.

The country is entitled to receive 20 million doses of CanSino's vaccine.

While the vaccine's protection rate trails the more than 90pc efficacy of shots developed by Pfizer Inc and its partner BioNTech SE and Moderna Inc, its single-dose regimen and normal refrigerator storage requirement could make it a favourable option for many countries.

CanSinoBIO's vaccine - which was approved for use in the Chinese military last year and has since been given to at least 40,000-50,000 people - *uses a modified common cold virus known as adenovirus type-5 (Ad5) to carry genetic material from the coronavirus protein into the body.*


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## Sean Khan

> its single-dose regimen


We are giving double dose. Much more effective that way.


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## Sean Khan

*Covid enhanced memory... the gift that keeps on giving....*

*When 6 year old Sean discovers that cars don't explode like in the movies.*

Pedal powered "car" going at full speed. I roll off and somersault twice into a ditch. Car keeps going until it hits my "friend". Car and friend don't explode.

WTF?

Traced bloody "friend" on Facebook. He's a lawyer now and still moving and talking. I wish him well.


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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


I don't know. Perhaps the result of inbreeding.

...Can't help you on this one, Treefork :iono:


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## mattwalt

Health and safety... Oh and 3rd wave feminism.


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## Hobbit With A Slingshot

Well folks, I have discovered that working a night shift job during this pandemic mess is a mistake. A well-paying mistake, but a mistake nonetheless.


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## Sean Khan

Another Chinese vaccine gets cleared for use. This one is different from the one we have just started using.

Dammit... Can't tell which is which... they all look the same to me...


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## Sean Khan

Yeah. Wear your masks!


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## Sean Khan

Sputnik-V also arriving in one week.

However unlike the Chinese vaccines, the shots won't be free. But I don't expect them to be very costly. Quite cheap rather.

Meanwhile Pakistan's total recoveries cross 525,000.

Pakistan has recorded 1,387 recoveries over the past 24 hours, according to the official Covid-19 portal.

The total number of recoveries in the country has now reached 525,087, while the death toll is 12,307.


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## Sean Khan

UN says 130 countries have not received a single Covid vaccine dose

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/feb/18/wildly-unfair-un-says-130-countries-have-not-received-a-single-covid-vaccine-dose

The UN secretary general, António Guterres, has sharply criticised the "wildly uneven and unfair" distribution of Covid vaccines, saying 10 countries have administered 75% of all vaccinations and demanding a global effort to get all people in every country vaccinated as soon as possible.

The UN chief told a high-level meeting of the UN security council on Wednesday that *130 countries had not yet received a single dose of vaccine.*

"At this critical moment, vaccine equity is the biggest moral test before the global community," said.

-----------------------------------------------

WTF??? I thought everyone was getting some kind of vaccine?


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## Sean Khan

2.8m doses of AstraZeneca vaccine to arrive on March 2 

Total 17 million doses of the Oxford vaccine to be sent till June. Enough for 20% of Pakistan's eligible population. And this is not including the four Chinese vaccines and the Russian one.

The Oxford vaccine is only for people 65 and above (most deaths from Covid). Chinese vaccines are for those younger than 65.... because our trials were conducted mostly on under-65s.


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## Sean Khan

Pakistani-American Doctor Fired For Giving Away Expiring COVID19 Vaccine

https://www.southasiainvestor.com/2021/02/pakistani-american-doctor-fired-for.html

Dr. Hasan Gokal, Pakistani-American medical director of Harris County COVID Response Team, has been charged with stealing COVID19 Moderna vaccine and fired from his job, according to media reports. Dr. Gokal's "crime" is to give away unused coronavirus vaccine doses that would have expired and lost if not used within hours. A Texas judge has dismissed charges against him.

*Each vial of Moderna vaccine has 10 doses. Once it is punctured, the vaccine expires within 6 hours. After administering COVID19 vaccine to all the front-line healthcare workers who showed up for their appointment, Gokal gave the remaining expiring doses of the vaccine to acquaintances and strangers, including a bed-bound woman in her 90s, a woman in her 80s with dementia, several men and women in their 60s and 70s with health issues, and a mother with a child on a ventilator, according to New York Times. After midnight and just minutes before the vial would expire, the final person called and said he wouldn't make it. Gokal turned to his wife, who has a pulmonary disease that causes shortness of breath, and gave her the last dose.*

Dr. Gokal is among thousands of Pakistani-American doctors who have been at the forefront of saving lives in the middle of the devastating COVID19 pandemic that has taken over 400,000 American lives so far.

Pakistani-American doctors are the *3rd largest among foreign-educated doctors in America.*

*______________________________*

Sue the snot out of them, say I.


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## High Desert Flipper

Our local situation here- we are getting some vaccine and my wife, who is a nurse, is volunteering her time on top of her normal work at vaccination clinics. Still, while out briefly last night, she got mocked for adjusting her mask by a guy passing by who made an animated gesture and a few noises while making fun of her while saying "ooh, my mask, my mask!". Wasn't worth making a scene though so we let him amble ignorantly off. I get it, not everyone is into the masks or gets that this is real, and even among those who get that it is real not all are very worried about it. And yeah, some people feel the need to try and belittle others while making a display of it all. But all good, people will be people. Only better if people didn't feel the need to engage others in the shallow pettiness of their insecure selves.


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## Sean Khan

> who made an animated gesture and a few noises while making fun of her while saying "ooh, my mask, my mask!".


I've been made fun of early in 2020.

Guys elbowing each other and snickering, "ha ha... covid mask walla... ha ha".

Happens all the time, all over the world. Best to ignore.

Even today, in 2021, some here still think it's all a joke or a conspiracy by Bill Gates (yes really).


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## High Desert Flipper

Sean Khan said:


> who made an animated gesture and a few noises while making fun of her while saying "ooh, my mask, my mask!".
> 
> 
> 
> I've been made fun of early in 2020.
> 
> Guys elbowing each other and snickering, "ha ha... covid mask walla... ha ha".
> 
> Happens all the time, all over the world. Best to ignore.
> 
> Even today, in 2021, some here still think it's all a joke or a conspiracy by Bill Gates (yes really).
Click to expand...

On the objective side, this pandemic does have its own interesting aspects to consider. Five to ten times more deadly than the flu still isn't very much compared to what it could be, although even this relatively weak pathogen has cost the US more lives this year than US soldiers killed in combat in any modern war (we passed the WWII combat deaths back around Sept or so). But still, the odds of dying for any particular person who gets sick are still not all that high, especially if you aren't too old and don't have any other pre-disposing conditions.

And yet, our city just lost our fifth middle age public school teacher and a firefighter to covid this week.

While teaching at the univ over the past year I have asked students to think about how different things might be, and specifically how public reaction / perception might be different, if this pandemic were Ebola that had a ~50/50 chance of killing you, instead of C-19 that is "only" 5-10x more lethal than the flu. With 5-10x more deadly than the flu meaning you are probably less likely to die from it than to unknowingly pass it on to somebody who will be killed by it while at church, at work, at the store, or wherever. The whole C-19 is definitely an interesting study in pathogens and pandemics, and how individuals and societies react to them.


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## Griffo

High Desert Flipper said:


> But still, the odds of dying for any particular person who gets sick are still not all that high, especially if you aren't too old and don't have any other pre-disposing conditions.
> 
> And yet, our city just lost our fifth middle age public school teacher and a firefighter to covid this week.


Deserves repeating frequently. The odds are with you but not a guarantee of exceptions.

Had covid had the transmissibility of smallpox i.e. via droplet and aerosol (suspension in the air) then infection and deaths would have been much higher.

The time to worry is when we see a virus with the same transmissibility of smallpox with the lethality of Ebola. Get in a cave then, and wait for it to pass!


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## robbo

the vaccines are being rolled out here in Australia now, we have been lucky here jumping on the outbreaks quickly. i dont no what percentage of the population will get vaccinated, a big chunk of them hopefully. in recent years people think its safe not to vaccinate as the young ones having kids today dont no what our grandparents had to deal with, as with smallpox and polio. one of my mums friends got polio its very bad, most of them dont realise that we dont have any of these things because we all got vaccinated as kids. on wiki they reckon America lost over 600 000 to the 1919 spanish flue, more than the first world war, thank god they invented penicillin as well. imagine getting teeth pulled out in the old days, skull down a bottle of crap whiskey and hope you where lucky enough not to have your nerves going through your teeth. some things about the good old days where good but not any of these things take care everyone.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## High Desert Flipper

Haha! Love the pics, especially the mask alone in the car and the Cure! Here's one I saw today:


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## Griffo

In the UK we are seeing vaccine hesitancy among certain groups. Some people are not taking up the offer to be vaccinated. This is especially the case among people of lower socio-economic status and black, Asian and minority ethnic groups. It is not clear why but misinformation or historic mistrust with the establishment could be contributing factors.

More concerning is vaccine hesitancy among healthcare workers, those who have been trying to save lives during the pandemic. Nearly one quarter (25%) of NHS staff working in London have refused the vaccine which is remarkable. Again, this is particularly the black, Asian and minority ethnic groups of healthcare workers.

I'm looking forward to my vaccination which should be sometime soon now. I'm perplexed why anyone would be hesitant, but some are and their choices have to be respected.


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## High Desert Flipper

Griffo said:


> In the UK we are seeing vaccine hesitancy among certain groups. Some people are not taking up the offer to be vaccinated. This is especially the case among people of lower socio-economic status and black, Asian and minority ethnic groups. It is not clear why but misinformation or historic mistrust with the establishment could be contributing factors.
> 
> More concerning is vaccine hesitancy among healthcare workers, those who have been trying to save lives during the pandemic. Nearly one quarter (25%) of NHS staff working in London have refused the vaccine which is remarkable. Again, this is particularly the black, Asian and minority ethnic groups of healthcare workers.
> 
> I'm looking forward to my vaccination which should be sometime soon now. I'm perplexed why anyone would be hesitant, but some are and their choices have to be respected.


There is a lot of hesitancy here in the US as well. Sounds very similar to what you have described. The distrust of govt among lower socioeconomic and minority groups is pretty expected, as is the susceptibility to mis-information. And like you mention, we are also seeing unexpectedly high hesitancy among health care workers. All this is troubling as the generation of more virulent strains and vaccine breaking strains requires a susceptible population where the virus can keep reproducing and evolving. And the larger that population is the more likely that these strains will break out and the faster it will happen. Thankfully, the vaccine platforms are agile and can be adapted as new strains break out, so my guess is that we may end up with something like an annually updated vaccinations similar to what we have for the flu- the difference being that those who choose to skip this will be at ~5-10x risk of death than they would be from skipping the flu vaccine, and their decision to skip it will put both themselves and those who are not able to be vaccinated into that increased risk pool.

The other, perhaps unintended, consequence I imagine coming out of this is the prolonged use of masks and distancing- the longer this hangs around and the more chance it has to evolved to overcome the vaccine and potentially gain virulence, the longer masks and distancing will remain with us.


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## Griffo

High Desert Flipper said:


> Thankfully, the vaccine platforms are agile and can be adapted as new strains break out, so my guess is that we may end up with something like an annually updated vaccinations similar to what we have for the flu- the difference being that those who choose to skip this will be at ~5-10x risk of death than they would be from skipping the flu vaccine, and their decision to skip it will put both themselves and those who are not able to be vaccinated into that increased risk pool.


Oh yes, I agree. The best we can aim for is to learn to live with this troublesome virus and to produce modified vaccines to cope with the new strains. Maybe in the future we may have a reactive one-dose vaccine to provide lifetime immunity, but that's science fantasy for now.

Having said this the speed at which vaccines have been made is mightily impressive. It seems when needs absolutely must, humans can still achieve great things. I nod in all directions to all scientists of all nationalities who have helped thump this bug.

On the moral question of vaccine passports. I don't know if these have been mooted in the US? The idea is an individual has documentation to prove they have been vaccinated. This would then allow them to travel internationally, or even just enter a restaurant or a pub on a high street.

It raises a question of unfair discrimination against those who have chosen not to be vaccinated, even if a decision not be vaccinated was based on a complete fallacy. An example which has gained traction here is the covid vaccine leads to infertility. Tsk.. shakes head.


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## High Desert Flipper

Indeed, the speed of vaccine development was impressive. Granted, a lot of that was compressing data review time between trial stages, and removing the time needed to secure funding as candidates advanced through the clinical trial stages. A bit depressing to see how much admin time makes up in vaccine development. But still very impressive to get it done as quickly as they did.

I haven't followed the vaccine passport idea here in the US. I know the idea has been tossed around but I don't believe it has been well considered yet. And from the bit I have heard there seems to be opposition to it on a lot of the grounds you raised.

So far the US has been doing smaller enforcement with other vaccines. Things like they are required for kids to attend schools. And if no vaccine and no medical waiver for not having it, then the kids can get home schooled or go to a private school that doesn't require vaccines, or something like that. Maybe a nice compromise for not forcing the vaccine on those who really don't want it and are willing to give up things like public schools in exchange for not getting vaccinated. This doesn't do much for kids at the mall or amusement park etc., unless Disney and the malls get together and require proof of vaccination to enter (not realistic) but is one level of action that could be taken.

As far as international travel goes it will be interesting. I know to travel from the US to certain places you need proof of this immunization or that dose of gamma globulin in some limited circumstances. Maybe a system like this will come into place for Covid-19.


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## Cass

Hi I was a teacher for 30 years in the public school system, and I could not work without proper vaccinations, and it should be mandatory. Educational teachers anywhere should not be subjected to possible infections by any one. It is hard enough to teach today without the need to worry about health. Teachers are not paid enough, and to ask them to be baby sitters for society is abbhorrent.


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## High Desert Flipper

Cass said:


> Hi I was a teacher for 30 years in the public school system, and I could not work without proper vaccinations, and it should be mandatory. Educational teachers anywhere should not be subjected to possible infections by any one. It is hard enough to teach today without the need to worry about health. Teachers are not paid enough, and to ask them to be baby sitters for society is abbhorrent.


I whole heartedly concur, and double on the teachers not getting paid enough! A few decades back it was a respectable profession (still is) that paid a respectable wage that could comfortably support a family. Disappointing to see this change, even more so to see teachers not higher on the vaccine priority lists. And maybe most disappointing of all is the number of teachers and health care professionals that are part of the vaccine hesitancy we are seeing. Sad all around. Our city has a population of ~100K and I think we have lost around 10 teachers to C-19, and we don't have kids back in the classroom yet.


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## mattwalt

Portugal's lock down measures since the post Christmas and short school reopenings (big mistakes on the governments part - but understandable at the time) has resulted in the largest turn-around in cases in the EU.

On driving alone wearing a mask - Actually if its a shared car its probably a wise decision?

I do find it interesting about C19 - If there is a train crash or a plane disappears, or a natural disaster and a few 100 people die - `there is global or at least national mourning. Doesn't seem so much the case with Covid even though 100's of 1000's have moved on...


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## Griffo

I wonder if the belief schools are a breeding ground for the coronavirus is really deserved. It's a belief I had because of previous experience of bugs and nasties ripping through the schools my children have attended. Like the winter vomiting bug (Norovirus) and seasonal flu.

However this recent report from the ONS suggests the actual infection rates for coronavirus are quite low in schools; 1.2% of students and 1.6% of teachers testing positive. With a broad conclusion there was "more and more evidence that children are not the primary drivers of transmission within the community".

Who'da thought that?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-56250995

At my daughter's school they are introducing lateral flow testing for all pupils. These tests give results in around 30 minutes. That way any child who does test positive can be quickly removed from the school. Although the tests are only going to be twice a week.


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## MOJAVE MO

The greatest success of the virus is the ability to not just end a life, but to divide all the rest of them.

mo2021


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## mattwalt

Here it was rife in schools. Teachers were essentially front line workers.

My daughters school had a continuous stream of infections. Trying to get teenagers to comply with social distancing isn't as straightforward as you'd expect. Or exactly as you'd expect...


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## Griffo

mattwalt said:


> Trying to get teenagers to comply with social distancing isn't as straightforward as you'd expect. Or exactly as you'd expect...


The latter. Definitely the latter. :nono:


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## High Desert Flipper

Griffo said:


> I wonder if the belief schools are a breeding ground for the coronavirus is really deserved. It's a belief I had because of previous experience of bugs and nasties ripping through the schools my children have attended. Like the winter vomiting bug (Norovirus) and seasonal flu.
> 
> However this recent report from the ONS suggests the actual infection rates for coronavirus are quite low in schools; 1.2% of students and 1.6% of teachers testing positive. With a broad conclusion there was "more and more evidence that children are not the primary drivers of transmission within the community".
> 
> Who'da thought that?


The data that I have seen suggests kids and schools are lower risk for transmission. However, low is not zero. Another case of the world not being black and white but rather shades of grey. With Teachers perhaps being in a darker shade now. Fingers crossed- our school busses just started running again this week.


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## High Desert Flipper

MOJAVE MO said:


> The greatest success of the virus is the ability to not just end a life, but to divide all the rest of them.
> 
> mo2021


I think the biggest success for this virus is flying at or below the radar a lot of the time. If this were ebola or smallpox everyone would taking it a lot differently, but by "only" being ~10x more lethal than the flu, which is only about 2% as lethal as ebola, it is able to persist while not causing a panic and with many not taking it very seriously- which is a big help in helping it persist. Sort of a viral sucker punch.


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## Sean Khan




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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

Indians stampede for vaccination shot.

Social distancing??? Whats THAT? And all this for a fake vaccine... no human trials.... they made out of cow dung (rumored).






No wonder India is on fire right now.


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## robbo

mattwalt said:


> Here it was rife in schools. Teachers were essentially front line workers.
> 
> My daughters school had a continuous stream of infections. Trying to get teenagers to comply with social distancing isn't as straightforward as you'd expect. Or exactly as you'd expect...


yes teenagers cant controll there hormones for this length of time, at that age we all thought we were bullet proof hopefully once the vaccinations are completed we will all be able to get back to normal . we are doing well in Australia, i hope theres no outbreaks at the games, hard enough to organise the games normally it must be a nightmare for some of the organisers.


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## Sean Khan

*Pakistan encourages British-Pakistanis to get vaccinated.*

The Conservative Friends of Pakistan are leading a unique vaccination awareness campaign all over the United Kingdom in collaboration with TPF, the international union of British-Pakistani students from more than 45 British universities who are bringing round their parents and elders to get vaccinated through the ongoing NHS campaign.

High Commissioner of Pakistan to the UK Moazzam Ahmad Khan appreciated the vaccination awareness drive led by the CFoP and students of British universities and commented :

*"I strongly urge the Pakistani diaspora in the UK to cooperate with the health authorities and get themselves and their dependents vaccinated, without paying attention to the false information being spread on social media. The vaccine is efficacious and represents a time tested method of preventing a communicable disease caused by viruses," he added.*

TPF Chief Executive and a student of Dentistry at King's College London Awais Malik appreciated the support of the CFoP and said that so many doctors and paramedics have lost their lives, a number of them of Pakistani origin.

He said that there have been *numerous conspiracy theories in social media*, so we thought the best way could be mobilising thousands of British-Pakistani students in the universities to educate their elders to address any doubts and help them get evidence-based answers.

*More than 45 Pakistani societies are participating in the awareness campaign from the universities in England, Wales and Scotland through virtual events, interactive programmes, information sessions, online challenges and poster campaigns.*

*======================================*

*numerous conspiracy theories in social media.... *Like what???


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## treefork




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## High Desert Flipper

Got my first jab today. Nice to see things moving along. Looking forward to life 2 weeks out (next jab), a month out (immunity should be up), this summer (more people have it), and this fall when hopefully most of those who are willing to take it will have had the chance.


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## Sean Khan

Prime Minister gets Covid..... :violin:


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## SJAaz

For some reason, I find myself refusing to get the shots. Can't figure out why. Just a general lack of trust I suppose.


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## Sean Khan

> For some reason, I find myself refusing to get the shots.


Same here.

It's just easier to stay at home and order vegetables and meat online and pay your bills with your mobile phone. I can stay home indefinitely and I can't be bothered to get in the car and frak myself in traffic. I just don't see the point... specially since I've already recovered from COVID and probably still have antibodies.

Do I trust the doctors and the Chinese vaccine?

Completely. No issues there.


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## SJAaz

I think that we have been manipulated and lied to until I've lost faith in the whole pooparoo! And that is a sad thing to say....


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## Sean Khan

Click twice on pics to enlarge to readable size.


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## Sean Khan

Virus? What virus??? :rofl:


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## Sean Khan

Under tremendous peer pressure, I finally gave in and registered myself for the vaccine shot. Two shots actually, two weeks apart.

At least it's for free.

Vaccine will be Chinese. If it's the Astra-Zeneca vaccine, I'll refuse to take it.

They will message me when in a few days. They have already messaged me which hospital to go to.


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## Sean Khan

Oh and after the Prime Minister, our President and our Defense Minister came down with COVID too last night.

Brilliant....


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## Hoss

My wife and I have been fully vaccinated, 2 shots of the Moderne. 

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk


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## Sean Khan




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## Quercusuber

Sean Khan said:


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Wow, pretty cool card game!!

"Coronavirus Vaccine Top Trumps"


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## Sean Khan

*A message going around on Whatsapp ...** (there is a video with a doctor saying it all... doesn't seem fake)...*

The virus is back, this time with more energy, tactics and camouflage.

We don't cough.

No fever..... it's joint pain, weakness, loss of appetite and Covid pneumonia!

Of course, the death rate is higher... it takes less time to get to the extreme. Sometimes no symptoms at all.

It directly affects the lungs, which means safety window periods are shortened. It doesn't effect the throat first.

An x-ray report shows chest pneumonia.

*The nasal swab is often negative for COVID19!*

There are more and more false negative pharyngeal nasal tests ... which means that the virus spreads directly to the lungs causing acute respiratory distress due to viral pneumonia. This explains why it has become acute and more fatal.

Be careful, avoid crowded places, wear a face mask, wash our hands often.


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## Sean Khan

Confirmed. It's the "British variant".


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## treefork

Oh no . We need another vaccine . We need another lock down . We need to wear 10 masks . We need ......... anic:


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## Quercusuber

treefork said:


> Oh no . We need another vaccine . We need another lock down . We need to wear 10 masks . We need ......... anic:


I don't know yet, but I suspect LIVING might be a symptom that we're going to die.

...just saying.


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## High Desert Flipper

This would be a lot easier for people to get a good gut feeling for if it were ebola where you had a 30-50% chance of dying if you caught it.

Instead it is somewhere between a mush-ball and a sucker punch. While C-19 is 5-10x more deadly than the flu it isn't deadly at a level to really grab attention or concern many all that much. Although it is deadly enough to have killed more US citizens than we had combat deaths in WW-I, WW-II, and Viet Nam combined. And C-19 did it in a year while those wars together took 12+ years to not kill as many soldiers. So no, not really all that likely to kill any one person, no big cities turned into ghost towns, no roving mobs in the streets after grocery stores were closed for a month since they couldn't get any stock. Not even any power outages or gas shortages. And while we horded toilet paper and worried about meat early on, it seems were are all still eating fairly well and able to clean up after. And no panic over trying to avoid it like people used to do to keep polio or smallpox away.

But sometimes you can sorta shock someone by hitting them a wet blob of toilet paper gently lobbed their way. Occasionally a sucker punch can get them pretty good too. With a really bad sucker punch being feeling pretty good about having not gotten very sick from it only to realize a week or three later you may have been the one who passed it onto somebody who didn't fare as well.

Just food for thought, whether you are in the camp that prefers wearing 0, 1, 2, or 10 masks.

And the variants? That's what viruses do, so they will continue to come. The more we pass it around and the fewer that get vaccinated the faster we will help spawn them. Unclear at present if they will be more deadly although it is really unlikely that they will become less harmful, at least in the short term (years to decades). And while pathogenicity changes are uncertain, some variants are already proving more transmissable, less well controlled by the vaccine, and probably also not as well detected by the tests.

So it is likely that we will get an annually (or so) updated vaccine like we have for the flu, and perhaps updates for the tests to keep up with the variants. On the upside, all the biotech we have will make all of this much easier to do than it was even a decade ago. Things like mRNA vaccines, large scale sequencing to detect variants when the emerge and keep PCR tests optimized, recombinant antibodies to re-jigger rapid detection assays all make this much more "manageable", if that is even a thing really.


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## Sean Khan

Been told it's not wise to wait so I'm going for the Russian SPUTNIK-V shot if they don't call me for the free Chinese shot in a few days.

Two shots 21 days apart.

Unlike the Chinese vaccine, it's not free but I can pay for it.

*It works the best on these British and South African variants.*

I also feel better about it now that Putin took the shot too.

https://news.sky.com/story/covid-19-russias-sputnik-v-vaccine-performs-well-against-variants-trials-show-12230663

Survivor of Cold War and Admirer of Ronald Reagan (me) is going to have Russian chemicals going through his veins.... I find that quite hilarious. How times change.


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## High Desert Flipper

Indeed, times do change!

I am getting my second Pfizer shot on Sunday. Hoping somebody will really be there to jab me on Easter Sunday.


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## SJAaz

Quercusuber said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no . We need another vaccine . We need another lock down . We need to wear 10 masks . We need ......... anic:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know yet, but I suspect LIVING might be a symptom that we're going to die.
> 
> ...just saying.
Click to expand...

might be a lot easier and cheaper to just shoot our selves and get it over with...... <_< ... <_<


----------



## Quercusuber

SJAaz said:


> Quercusuber said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh no . We need another vaccine . We need another lock down . We need to wear 10 masks . We need ......... anic:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know yet, but I suspect LIVING might be a symptom that we're going to die.
> 
> ...just saying.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> might be a lot easier and cheaper to just shoot our selves and get it over with...... <_< ... <_<
Click to expand...

"A guy goes to a doctor.

Doctor gives him 6 months to live. The guy couldn't pay the bill, so the doctor gave him 6 more months."

:rolling: :rolling: :rolling: :neener:


----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


I know very well a mask won't work properly with the nose out. That's logical

Yet, since I'm being forced to wear a mask (which I don't agree with), sometimes I wear the mask in this fashion.

Just out of disrespect for my tyrannical and hypochondriac Government, who has passed one of the most strict and fundamentalist mask laws on Europe.

I never wear a mask on the street, although there's a law saying that's mandatory. I don't give a rat's a$$. But when I go to the supermarket I really like to defy the law to the limit.

I really don't know what's more unbearable: if my Government or my people, which has been the most meek and sheep-like that I've seen in my life...

There's really no protest or debate here. People look like obedient clods. That's really sad where we're going to...


----------



## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


You bet!!


----------



## SJAaz

I will not get the shots unless they also force that somehow. In my mind, I can already see having to show proof of having the shots before using public transportation.

It would seem that they can do most anything if they install enough fear first.


----------



## treefork




----------



## treefork




----------



## Sean Khan

> I can already see having to show proof of having the shots before using public transportation.


They already do that when traveling to some countries.


----------



## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

SJAaz said:


> I will not get the shots unless they also force that somehow. In my mind, I can already see having to show proof of having the shots before using public transportation.
> 
> It would seem that they can do most anything if they install enough fear first.


Totalitarianism at full throttle, if you ask me

It's incredible what they're doing over a 2% death rate virus, at least here in my country.

Never heard of people being asked for their health situation before making a trip. Except in history books, on the chapter about Nazi Germany...

Basically, they're treating people like cattle. I wonder what some countries would do if a virus of the likes of the Ebola would turn pandemic one day.

Probably they would start killing people on the streets ...just a guess.

I've refused the jab and also the testings. I had to sign a paper. I think they called me twice, but I've never answered the phone (I don't usually answer unknown phone numbers). A friend told me that, after he did the same, they've phoned him twice to enquire on the reasons why he didn't chose to be vaccinated. LOL!!!

...don't really know what to make about this.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Quercusuber said:


> SJAaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will not get the shots unless they also force that somehow. In my mind, I can already see having to show proof of having the shots before using public transportation.
> 
> It would seem that they can do most anything if they install enough fear first.
> 
> 
> 
> Totalitarianism at full throttle, if you ask me
> 
> *Never heard of people being asked for their health situation before making a trip. Except in history books, on the chapter about Nazi Germany...*
> 
> Basically, they're treating people like cattle. I wonder what some countries would do if a virus of the likes of the Ebola would turn pandemic one day.
> 
> Probably they would start killing people on the streets ...just a guess.
> 
> I've refused the jab and also the testings. I had to sign a paper. I think they called me twice, but I've never answered the phone (I don't usually answer unknown phone numbers). A friend told me that, after he did the same, they've phoned him twice to enquire on the reasons why he didn't chose to be vaccinated. LOL!!!
> 
> ...don't really know what to make about this.
Click to expand...

I don't wish to and won't debate whether anyone should or shouldn't get C-19 vaccination- it should be and is (in most free countries) up to the individual to decide. As I believe it should be.

Some things to note though, health situations / vaccination requirements for travel, and especially for immigration, have actually been pretty common for a while. Many countries including the US have vaccination requirements for entry. And it is also a good idea to get immunoglobin shots to protect against various things if you are traveling to various places. I appreciate these rules for helping protect the US.

When I travel internationally for ag related work I get run around for things like foot & mouth- any potentially contaminated clothing or foot ware can be confiscated. I leave whatever clothing and foot ware I work in ag areas overseas behind- real hassle to bring shoes and pants worn in farm fields abroad back into the US- and for good reason I believe. Canada and Mexico also have requirements for movement of people and goods designed to prevent diseases that affect humans, ag crops and animals, etc.. If you want an adventure, try to take a pet across the US-Canada border without bringing vet records. Bottom line, this isn't so much a Nazi thing- pretty common all around us actually and has been for many decades. C-19 is not the first time countries have pondered how to stem disease spread.

I got vaccinated mostly because I don't think I could forgive myself if I ended up being responsible for passing it on to somebody who suffered a bad outcome from it. Much the same as I get a flu shot every year before visiting my old and frail parents in the nursing home. I would hate to be the one who passed on an illness that killed them. And while still low, the odds of this are ~10 times higher for C-19 than for the flu. So even though I am healthy enough that I believe I am not in huge danger of C-19 taking me out, I still found sufficient justification to get myself vaccinated.

However, even though there is a long standing precedent for vaccines / health restrictions and travel, and I have what I believe to be sound reason for getting vaccinated myself, I *do NOT* support mandatory vaccinations or C-19 vaccine passports.

With the world being shades of grey instead of black and white, I place a high value on individual freedom and believe all should decide for themselves whether to get vaccinated or not. Similarly, I think the idea of C-19 vaccination passports have as much downside as up. I think many areas are hitting a happy medium by doing things like allowing parents to skip vaccinations for their kids if they also skip putting their kids into public schools etc.- measures like that I support.

https://expertvagabond.com/travel-vaccinations/

https://www.uscis.gov/tools/designated-civil-surgeons/vaccination-requirements


----------



## Quercusuber

High Desert Flipper said:


> Quercusuber said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SJAaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will not get the shots unless they also force that somehow. In my mind, I can already see having to show proof of having the shots before using public transportation.
> 
> It would seem that they can do most anything if they install enough fear first.
> 
> 
> 
> Totalitarianism at full throttle, if you ask me
> 
> *Never heard of people being asked for their health situation before making a trip. Except in history books, on the chapter about Nazi Germany...*
> 
> Basically, they're treating people like cattle. I wonder what some countries would do if a virus of the likes of the Ebola would turn pandemic one day.
> 
> Probably they would start killing people on the streets ...just a guess.
> 
> I've refused the jab and also the testings. I had to sign a paper. I think they called me twice, but I've never answered the phone (I don't usually answer unknown phone numbers). A friend told me that, after he did the same, they've phoned him twice to enquire on the reasons why he didn't chose to be vaccinated. LOL!!!
> 
> ...don't really know what to make about this.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't wish to and won't debate whether anyone should or shouldn't get C-19 vaccination- it should be and is (in most free countries) up to the individual to decide. As I believe it should be.
> 
> Some things to note though, health situations / vaccination requirements for travel, and especially for immigration, have actually been pretty common for a while. Many countries including the US have vaccination requirements for entry. And it is also a good idea to get immunoglobin shots to protect against various things if you are traveling to various places. I appreciate these rules for helping protect the US.
> 
> When I travel internationally for ag related work I get run around for things like foot & mouth- any potentially contaminated clothing or foot ware can be confiscated. I leave whatever clothing and foot ware I work in ag areas overseas behind- real hassle to bring shoes and pants worn in farm fields abroad back into the US- and for good reason I believe. Canada and Mexico also have requirements for movement of people and goods designed to prevent diseases that affect humans, ag crops and animals, etc.. If you want an adventure, try to take a pet across the US-Canada border without bringing vet records. Bottom line, this isn't so much a Nazi thing- pretty common all around us actually and has been for many decades. C-19 is not the first time countries have pondered how to stem disease spread.
> 
> I got vaccinated mostly because I don't think I could forgive myself if I ended up being responsible for passing it on to somebody who suffered a bad outcome from it. Much the same as I get a flu shot every year before visiting my old and frail parents in the nursing home. I would hate to be the one who passed on an illness that killed them. And while still low, the odds of this are ~10 times higher for C-19 than for the flu. So even though I am healthy enough that I believe I am not in huge danger of C-19 taking me out, I still found sufficient justification to get myself vaccinated.
> 
> However, even though there is a long standing precedent for vaccines / health restrictions and travel, and I have what I believe to be sound reason for getting vaccinated myself, I *do NOT* support mandatory vaccinations or C-19 vaccine passports.
> 
> With the world being shades of grey instead of black and white, I place a high value on individual freedom and believe all should decide for themselves whether to get vaccinated or not. Similarly, I think the idea of C-19 vaccination passports have as much downside as up. I think many areas are hitting a happy medium by doing things like allowing parents to skip vaccinations for their kids if they also skip putting their kids into public schools etc.- measures like that I support.
> 
> https://expertvagabond.com/travel-vaccinations/
> 
> https://www.uscis.gov/tools/designated-civil-surgeons/vaccination-requirements
Click to expand...

It's not so much the practical side of fighting a dangerous disease that's being the question now, I think.

When I've compared the state of things to the Nazi regime, I've done it because I think a certain ideology/politics of living is being implemented.

Many decisions and laws have been passed in my country without the customary parliamentary consultation. With the excuse of the fight against Covid, many liberties and rights are being taken. And yes, I know vaccination exists for a long time and plays a role in certain exchanges of goods and peoples between countries. But this particular vaccine is being taken to an extreme. In fact, for this virus to be weak or even obsolete, not all the people in a given country needs to take the vaccine. But, oddly, they're pushing the vaccination to a ridiculous extent. As a mere fact, in my country, the elderly were not the first group to be vaccinated. That's strange, to say the least.

I'm not a conspiracy theorist. Of course the virus exist and it take its toll in deaths. I just simply think this is somewhat being blown out of proportions. And I fear things are never going back to the previous normality we had.


----------



## Sean Khan

Went to hospital this morning... very early so to be first in line. Didn't even have breakfast. Which broke my oldest rule... never go out of the house on an empty tummy. Anyway...

*What you want?*

*"Vaccine...???"*

*You want vaccine? No vaccine for you!!!*

Okay Soup-Nazi... I'll go to the other hospital next door... which I did.

They were out too. No more SPUTNIK-V. They'll get a ton more in a few days or weeks, they say.

Until then I wait for my number to be called up for the Chinese shot.

Here is a picture I took of the sign that sez they are out... They were hiding it like they were embarrassed which is why I missed it as I was going in.









Thank you so bloody much.

At least I bought some warm breakfast....


----------



## Sean Khan

> I got vaccinated mostly because I don't think I could forgive myself if I ended up being responsible for passing it on to somebody who suffered a bad outcome from it.


*Exactly!*


----------



## Sean Khan




----------



## treefork

Sean Khan said:


> I got vaccinated mostly because I don't think I could forgive myself if I ended up being responsible for passing it on to somebody who suffered a bad outcome from it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Exactly!*
Click to expand...


----------



## Sean Khan

*We give so others may live!....* *as long as we don't run out of vaccine....* :violin:

Jokes aside, what happened to me yesterday was a truly frustrating experience.

I'll just wait for them to call me for the Chinese shot....


----------



## Hoss

Sean Khan said:


> I got vaccinated mostly because I don't think I could forgive myself if I ended up being responsible for passing it on to somebody who suffered a bad outcome from it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Exactly!*
Click to expand...



Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk


----------



## Sean Khan

Clear link between AstraZeneca vaccine and rare blood clots in brain: European regulator 

There is a link between AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine and very rare blood clots in the brain but the possible causes are still unknown, a senior official for the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said in an interview published on Tuesday.

"In my opinion we can now say it, it is clear that there is an association with the vaccine. However, we still do not know what causes this reaction," Marco Cavaleri, chair of the vaccine evaluation team at the EMA, told Italian daily Il Messaggero when asked about the possible relation between the AstraZeneca shot and cases of brain blood clots.


----------



## Quercusuber

Sean Khan said:


> Clear link between AstraZeneca vaccine and rare blood clots in brain: European regulator
> 
> There is a link between AstraZeneca's Covid-19 vaccine and very rare blood clots in the brain but the possible causes are still unknown, a senior official for the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said in an interview published on Tuesday.
> 
> "In my opinion we can now say it, it is clear that there is an association with the vaccine. However, we still do not know what causes this reaction," Marco Cavaleri, chair of the vaccine evaluation team at the EMA, told Italian daily Il Messaggero when asked about the possible relation between the AstraZeneca shot and cases of brain blood clots.


Chances of dying from Covid19: low in percentage

Chances of dying from the AstraZeneca vaccine: low in percentage


----------



## Quercusuber

Hoss said:


> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I got vaccinated mostly because I don't think I could forgive myself if I ended up being responsible for passing it on to somebody who suffered a bad outcome from it.
> 
> 
> 
> *Exactly!*
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

That is very commendable, and I mean it without any hypocrisy or disrespect.

But who can guarantee me that I wasn't responsible in the past of causing someone's death with the flu or tuberculosis, for example??

One can never knows.

I prefer not to thing in that way or else everything I do (including breathing) can be "criminalized", like in the butterfly effect theory.


----------



## treefork




----------



## treefork




----------



## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


LOL!!!!! :rolling: :rolling: :rolling:

At this rate of things, one never knows....


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Quercusuber said:


> That is very commendable, and I mean it without any hypocrisy or disrespect.
> 
> But who can guarantee me that I wasn't responsible in the past of causing someone's death with the flu or tuberculosis, for example??
> 
> One can never knows.
> 
> I prefer not to thing in that way or else everything I do (including breathing) can be "criminalized", like in the butterfly effect theory.


Indeed, nobody can every know everything with certainty. And honestly, if we did life would be a lot more boring. Truly. Imagine being a teenager and knowing if you were gonna get the date or not before you asked, or a kid knowing whether or not the BB gun was under the tree two weeks out from Christmas.

It's nothing more or less than evaluating how different options could affect outcomes, weighing the costs vs potential benefits, and deciding whether or not to make decisions based on how you would react to the potential outcomes. Outcomes including those that touch you and those that may impact others. And whether we realize it or not, something we all do all the time. Even though we all know we are only playing odds and not guaranteeing certainties.

Much like if I decide to wait for a storm to pass before driving, or asking for my kids to wait for the roads to melt off before coming over. Waiting to drive doesn't mean I will avoid an accident for sure any more than driving in bad conditions assures my kids would get in a wreck coming to see me, or guarantee that they won't get hurt in an accident later on the clear roads. But I usually feel better about waiting for the storm to pass and clear roads before I or my kids head out. No certain outcome but I feel better for playing those situations like that. And that's how I do it, which doesn't mean that is how everyone else should do it. Personal choices with an emphasis on personal.

Not any more complicated than that really, and something we all (or at least most of us) do every day whether we realize it or not.

I enjoy hearing other people's thoughts, opinions, and rationale and often learn a lot from them. Not always, but even when I don't agree I feel I am at least informed. I share mine hoping to reciprocate. If others find my thinking worth considering, fantastic. If not, I hope it goes into the bin and doesn't occupy them any more than an old news paper.

I could be wrong but I'm sensing some hostility toward my expressing this logic for my personal choice to get the C-19 vaccine- getting it for others as much or more than for myself after considering potential impacts of not, i.e.not wanting to pass it onto somebody who didn't do well. Much like I get the flu vaccine before visiting my elderly parents in the home, etc..

I don't really know how to respond. Or if I even should. But for better or worse, here goes. I made the comment to share the logic I used to arrive at my personal decision and I wasn't seeking to strike a nerve or make people defensive. If it had that affect, I am sorry but there isn't much I can do about that- my rationale is my rationale. And I would make a horrible politician- I rarely put my rationale through focus group testing before arriving at a decision. I can't imagine a less fulfilling life- that's not for me. Although I am always eager to hear differing opions that may inform my thinking. Maybe at least give me a chit of credit for being open, honest, and having a rationale. Or not. If considering impacts for myself and others is wrong or offensive in other people's eyes, no worries. Put me on the "bad" list and life can go on. No rule says the world has to turn according to my views or that everyone has to agree on everything. How boring would that be? And if there's one thing I have learned, the world is gonna do what it will without really giving two #$%# about how I feel about it. The universe doesn't consult me before carrying on.

The sun will still come up, slings will still shoot, and life will probably remain pretty good, or at least pretty much the same, all around. Including the seemingly eternal back and forth over bands vs tubes, masks, vaccines, and all the rest. Even though everyone knows bands are superior. ????


----------



## Sean Khan

> I could be wrong but I'm sensing some hostility toward my expressing this logic for my personal choice to get the C-19 vaccine


Well I totally agree with you, at least.

1400 years ago Mohamed (Prophet of Islam) gave an order to all Muslims .. which is often ignored today because the world is full of social media consuming pu$$ies .... *"Do not go into any town where you hear of a sickness spreading. And if you are already there DO NOT LEAVE."*

He said that before the world had any concept of viruses and germs. But they knew enough to try not to be responsible for spreading any disease.

So even my religion agrees with you. :woot:

I haven't been out of my house much for at least a year. I do everything by remote control. I buy most everything... from toilet paper to bananas, online. I even made my own bio-diesel for an emergency, to fill my car with (I only use diesel cars.. I hate petrol on principle).

Point is, tech today is advanced enough for you to do everything without leaving your home. Even your favorite hookers are just a click away on Facebook (the largest **-house on earth)... of course THAT will spread Covid too.... but I'm just sayin'.

And we do it all because:

1. I don't want to be infected (I did have Covid... *it is not a picnic*).

2. I don't want others to get it because of me.

The opposite of this is like one of those HIV positive guys who try to make others HIV positive too deliberately (has happened many times in many countries). That is just criminal behavior. And we don't want to be that guy, do we?

So even though I've had Covid,* I will still get the shot the moment they text me that they are ready for me. *By the end of 2021, 20% of Pakistan will be vaccinated (44 million people). One million doctors and nurses already are.

Wear a mask, at the very least, thank you.


----------



## SJAaz

treefork said:


>


Hey, great minds think alike! I give myself a few boosters every night. Before, I was a drunk, now , I'm just protecting my health. :alky:


----------



## High Desert Flipper

SJAaz said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, great minds think alike! I give myself a few boosters every night. Before, I was a drunk, now , I'm just protecting my health. :alky:
Click to expand...

I do love a good booster now and again!


----------



## Sean Khan

I see people out in the city going about without a mask. Looks like everyone has stopped caring.

It's clear that ... at the most.... no more than 2% of the population will die... most likely a lot less. The Govt can live with that number. It won't effect the economy in any way.

So they will still give us vaccines for free... but they have stopped enforcing mask wearing laws and such.

Either we behave like adults or we are on our own... govt has stopped it's nanny role.

No more lockdowns.


----------



## treefork




----------



## Sean Khan

Indian variant found in UK

A highly infectious double mutant Covid-19 variant first detected in India has now been found in the UK, sparking calls for UK Prime Minister Boris Johnson to cancel his trip to India.

The B1617 variant was designated on Thursday a "variant under investigation" by Public Health England (PHE), meaning it has concerning epidemiological, immunological or pathogenic properties and requires investigation.

PHE said that up to April 14 it had identified 77 cases of the "Indian variant" in Britain - 73 in England and four in Scotland.

PHE said: "The variant, first detected in India, includes a number of mutations, including E484Q, L452R, and P681R.

L452R is responsible for several large outbreaks in California and E484Q is similar to a mutation seen in the South Africa and Brazil variants.

Together, E484Q and L452R, found together for the first time in India, are known to be more infectious, more transmissible and to evade antibodies.

It is likely the India variant is at least in part driving the current exponential rise in cases in India - with more than 200,000 cases recorded on Wednesday.

Two to a bed in Delhi hospital as India's Covid crisis spirals










From reporting under 10,000 new daily cases earlier this year, daily infections crossed 200,000 on Thursday, according to official data, the highest anywhere in the world.

Unrelated patients share beds, while bodies of the recently deceased lie outside the ward before being taken to the mortuary.

Outside the hospital's mortuary, weeping relatives gathered in the hot sun to wait for the bodies of loved ones to be released.

Prashant Mehra, 40, said he had to pay a broker for preferential treatment before he could get his 90-year-old grandfather admitted to the hospital. The hospital did not immediately respond to a request for comment on his remarks.

Mehra said the effort made little difference in the end.

"He died after six or seven hours," he said. "We already asked for our money back."


----------



## treefork




----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


LOL!!! You forgot to mention:

"Your Very Own Immune System"


----------



## Sean Khan

Being from Pakistan, I couldn't care less about India, but USA, after calling India a friend and an ally, now telling them to take a hike when it comes to vaccine making raw materials, is more than a bit weird. Even I find it more sad than funny.

Anyway.... I went to a hospital to get my first shot (the Govt texted me to show up at 11am at that place).

When I got there... WTF.. the line was HUGE. I am not going to stand in line for hours to get stabbed with a half-dead virus ... I went home. Will try some other day very early in the morning. Maybe.


----------



## IOAN

Sad but true!


----------



## Sean Khan

Indian leaders finally lose their marbles....

When you can't make vaccines and have run out of emergency supplies of oxygen and when you are getting half a million new infections every day *(highest in the world)*, THIS is all you are left with.

Talk about desperation.






Every day I thank Gawd I was born on THIS side of the border and not THERE.


----------



## Sean Khan

*Pakistan offers medical supplies to India.*

https://www.dawn.com/news/1620228/medical-supplies-offered-to-delhi

It's woefully clear how incompetent India's leaders have been in trying to stop this virus. In fact, instead of stopping it, they have allowed it to fester and turn into the most dangerous mutation in the world (the Indian strain). Most vaccines have trouble dealing with this variant.

If we do not help these people, it can easily jump across the border and then we'll be in trouble too.

The supplies being offered to India include ventilators, Bi PAP, digital X-ray machines, personal protective equipment and other related items.


----------



## treefork




----------



## treefork




----------



## Sean Khan

Just a few months ago, people in India's govt and in the media were chanting *"Corona ki maut maray ga Pakistan!"* (Pakistan will experience death by Corona!). Said it quite joyfully. Similar to Iranians chanting "death to America" every Friday.

Well, Pakistan is doing far better than most others, thank you very much.There are no corona-mutations here like the deadly India-variant. There is no outbreak. We have vaccines enough to vaccinate everyone. We have just allowed vaccinations for foreigners too. If you can't get vaccinated in your own country, come here and we'll do you. And we are not running short of liquid-oxygen supplies. More oxygen factories are coming online, just in case.

China created emergency hospitals in days. India didn't create anything even when it was clear they are headed for trouble. The political leadership did NOTHING about the oxygen supply. They fooled people by claiming they could manufacture vaccines in numbers... they can't. Because of their lies, Europe is in deep doo-doo. They encouraged people to crowd around for religious festivals.

Their Caste System does not allow medical treatment for "dalits".. they are not even counted when they die. Guess what... hundreds of millions of dalits ("untouchable people") are running around with the virus infecting and reinfecting everyone else.

Guess one shouldn't wish bad upon others, huh?* BTW, we have also just offered India, tons of liquid oxygen and a fleet of 800 ambulances WITH medical teams. All we have to do is drive across the border and save people.*

But India isn't allowing it.


----------



## NightKnight

I’ve gotten both of my vaccination shots, but I’m still going to wear my mask.


----------



## MOJAVE MO

I guess I am also a dalit. I am not avoiding the vaccination, I am just waiting until the 3-Vax Formula with quarterly boosters is available. I use what I refer to as 'Donut' factoring. If two donuts taste good, then that third donut tastes gooder. 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Sean Khan

> I'm still going to wear my mask.


I shall do the same.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

MOJAVE MO said:


> I guess I am also a dalit. I am not avoiding the vaccination, I am just waiting until the 3-Vax Formula with quarterly boosters is available. I use what I refer to as 'Donut' factoring. If two donuts taste good, then that third donut tastes gooder.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If the infection rate stays high enough to keep variants popping out on a regular basis we may need the quarterly boosters. Actually not feasible, but we may end up in a situation like the flu vaccine with annual updates.


----------



## Sean Khan

Total recovered = *704,494*

Active cases = *88,207*

Daily new infections =* Around 5000*

Total dead =* 17,530*

People vaccinated daily = *Over 100,000*

Total vaccinated = *2.1 Million*

Border with India sealed until further notice. Nobody crosses. No trade.

China promised India oxygen concentrators. As they were being loaded onto planes, China banned flights to India. Ouch. Not sure if they did that deliberately or it just happened...?

Reminds me of that rhyme...

*Me Chinese*

*Me play joke*

*Me put peepee*

*in your Coke!*

Even I sometimes can't tell if they are joking. :rofl: And I'm like their brother (their name for Pakistan is *"Iron Brother"*).


----------



## Sean Khan

Wow. Just came across this:









Indian Army General: *"Gentlemen. Pray for the death of Pakistan. The world will be a better place."*

Like I said, shouldn't curse someone who is better than you. It can boomerang back into your own face.

The universe is more mysterious than you can figure out.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Sean Khan said:


> Wow. Just came across this:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Screenshot_2021-04-28 This is Why You Shouldn't Pray for Tabahi of Pakistan Ata Hasnain Such Duas Come Back and Bite You.png
> 
> Indian Army General: *"Gentlemen. Pray for the death of Pakistan. The world will be a better place."*
> 
> Like I said, shouldn't curse someone who is better than you. It can boomerang back into your own face.
> 
> The universe is more mysterious than you can figure out.


Sad the way the world works sometimes.


----------



## Sean Khan

Well whatever is happening, they did it to themselves.

Yes it's sad. A little common sense could have gone a long way.


----------



## Sean Khan

Aaaaand.....

*Britain says no surplus Covid vaccines available to give to India*

Britain has no surplus of Covid-19 vaccines to give to India as it faces a deadly wave of coronavirus that puts intense pressure on hospitals, health minister Matt Hancock has said.

Britain has given ventilators and oxygen concentrators to India, but Hancock said Britain was currently not in a position to give any vaccines.

"We don't have any excess doses of vaccine in the UK at the moment," Hancock said at a news conference.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Sean Khan said:


> Yes it's sad. A little common sense could have gone a long way.


As is often the case with a lot of things.


----------



## MOJAVE MO

Sean Khan said:


> Well whatever is happening, they did it to themselves.
> 
> Yes it's sad. A little common sense could have gone a long way.


Hold on just one second! How can *1,380,004,385* people be wrong? We are talking about 17.7% of the world population?! To be fair I ripped these details from Gargle. But that is still a number that cannot be understood.


----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


This image saddens me so much...

Enforcing masks on kids is beyond violent and degrading.

Taking their right to live freely, communicate with every means they have (non-verbal communication) and constitute their immune system in a natural way is CRIMINAL!!

When we know that deaths by the oriental vírus amongst children are less than residual, the only explanation I see for this barbarity is selfishness by the adults, not the protection of children's health

This is tantamount to fascism and totalitarianism, whether is supported by a Left or Right Government...I don't care about the colours anymore.

I'm getting fed up with this mask c**p every second that passes...


----------



## Sean Khan

> How can *1,380,004,385* people be wrong?


China has more people and they have controlled their COVID problem.

India did everything opposite of what China did.

Which billion people are right and which are wrong?



> Gargle


 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:



> a number that cannot be understood.


It can be understood easily when you realize that most of the people on earth are sheeple. It takes smart leadership to herd the helpless/dickless sheeple and save them from getting eaten by wolf-packs.

History/Science/Miracles are created by the very few. Not by a mob.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

China was very heavy handed, but they got results. China's death rate is ~3 per million. Interesting that Taiwan has them beat with only 0.5 deaths per million people. Versus India at 147 deaths per million people. Or Pakistan at 78 deaths per million people. Or, say, the US at a little over 1700 deaths per million. Or Italy at just shy of 2,000 deaths per million people.

I don't support the heavy handed approach China took and wouldn't want to go through it in a system like that. But if getting a lid on it all was the goal they did get results.


----------



## Sean Khan

> I don't support the heavy handed approach China took


I do. It solves the problem.* Otherwise, left on their own people stop caring after a week or two and think it was all a bad dream.*

Our finger is on the trigger for another wave of massive lockdowns like in the early days. I hope they pull that trigger.

Everything was fine and the Govt had said no more lockdowns... but the British variant changed that... it spreads a lot faster. The largest group of foreigners going in and out of the UK are Pakistanis. Whatever UK gets, we will get. And we did.

I am very happy under lockdown. I get to see zero stoopid people out of my window... streets are empty.

I have everything at home. As long as you can shop for food online, you are fine. And remember to keep as much money loaded into your phone for online payments, as you can (we don't use credit cards... we use phone-cash).

I also have all kinds of ammo... for slingshots and for guns... in case this turns into a full blown Zombie Apocalypse.

If we have a power cut, we have solar. I just expanded the system and got more batteries and more panels. Who cares what happens outside.









No worries.


----------



## Sean Khan

> India at 147 deaths per million people.


It's a LOT higher. They simply aren't counting lower castes and "untouchable" people for political reasons.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Well, the lockdown wasn't all bad for me. A lot of time not having to deal with people and a chance to re-discover slingshots plus the time to learn a bit about bow making. I also consider not having to interact with people at work nearly as much a continuing bonus.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Sean Khan said:


> India at 147 deaths per million people.
> 
> 
> 
> It's a LOT higher. They simply aren't counting lower castes and "untouchable" people for political reasons.
Click to expand...

I think most or all places are a lot higher. China is probably higher than 3, the US is probably higher than 1,700. I think the relative levels are probably accurate but that everyone is probably undercounting. India maybe more than others, but probably everyone at least a bit.


----------



## Sean Khan

> that everyone is probably undercounting


Probably.

We should be overcounting. To put the fear of gawd into Huey, Dewey and Louie. Otherwise most people just aren't getting it. That how much worse things can get.



> A lot of time not having to deal with people


 :yeahthat: :thumbsup:

As long as I have internet and I can come* here*, it's all good.


----------



## Sean Khan

*India's coronavirus infections cross 18 million; record number of daily deaths*

India reported 379,257 new Covid-19 cases and 3,645 new deaths on Thursday, according to health ministry data. It was the deadliest day so far for any country hit by the pandemic.

Early modelling showed that the B.1.617 variant of the virus detected in India had a higher growth rate than other variants in the country, suggesting increased transmissibility, it said.

The World Health Organization said in its weekly epidemiological update that *India accounted for 38% of the 5.7 million cases reported worldwide* to it last week.

Delhi is reporting *one death from Covid-19 every four minutes* and ambulances have been taking the bodies of Covid-19 victims to makeshift crematorium facilities in parks and parking lots, where bodies burned on rows and rows of funeral pyres.

The US State Department issued a travel advisory warning on Wednesday against travel to India because of the pandemic and approved the voluntary departure of family members of US government employees in India.


----------



## Sean Khan

*Three more PIA aircraft leave for China for Covid-19 vaccines*

The planes will reach Islamabad with one million vaccine doses. The first aircraft was to arrive back in Pakistan at 8:30 am today (Thursday) whereas the second at 12:30 pm and the third at 12 midnight.

Earlier three planes carrying a consignment of one million doses of Covid-19 vaccine left China for Pakistan on Sunday.

We are flying in a million-2million vaccine doses every week.

China's vaccine making speed is unmatched.


----------



## Sean Khan




----------



## MOJAVE MO

I actually watched all three videos. The saddest part for me is the realization that I don't have a humanitarian bone in my body. Any day now I expect an Alien Invasion of the Planet who will bring with them a Death Ray that only works on stupid people. This should reduce the world population by at least half and we can get back to work starting this mess all over again.


----------



## Sean Khan

*Australia makes it a crime for Australians to return from India*

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/australia-bans-return-residents-citizens-india-offenders-face-fines-prison-n1266045

*Fines of up to AUD 66,000 and jail time of up to 5 years.*

Australia has all but stamped out the virus after closing its borders to non-citizens and permanent residents in March 2020, recording just 910 deaths.






Pushing and shoving and crawling up each others butts even now. In such conditions masks are no help.

And I have never seen oxygen cylinders (and these are rusty and falling apart) in a hospital or anywhere except in a welding supply shop. The only medical oxygen I have seen is liquid oxygen being pumped directly into storage tanks inside a building. And in hospitals they get oxygen from a wall outlet or such... not out of a pathetic cylinder that might run out of air at some point.

Images coming out of India look like out of a WW1 nightmare.


----------



## Sean Khan

__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1388146585075257347
*"How dare you, China and Russia!!!"*

Click on pic to make it larger.


----------



## treefork




----------



## SJAaz

treefork said:


>


Self water boarding??


----------



## Sean Khan

*Pfizer inoculated infectious diseases expert dies of Covid 19 in India*

It seems that Pfizer is useless against the Indian variant. No wonder we haven't cleared it for use around here.










Renowned infectious disease specialist and Rutgers University professor Dr Rajendra Kapila passed away in Delhi on April 28 after testing positive for Covid-19 on April 8. He was 81.

Dr Kapila worked extensively on HIV-AIDS, trained many people in the field and practised at Rutgers University for 50 years.

He returned to India with wife Dr Deepti Saxena-Kapila in the last week of March and stayed in Ghaziabad. He was supposed to fly back to the US by the second week of April but was admitted to Delhi's Shanti Mukund Hospital, where he died.

"For the last one year I have been working at a Covid-19 lab in New Jersey and had ensured a safe environment at home," said Dr Deepti, who specialises in microbiology. "It is ironic that we came to India for two weeks and he contracted it here." She said Dr Kapila got both doses of the Pfizer vaccine in the US.

In a memorial message sent out by Rutgers University faculty, Dr Marc Klapholz , professor and chair of the department of medicine, said: "A genuine giant in the field of infectious diseases, Dr Kapila was recognised world-wide and sought out for his legendary knowledge and extraordinary clinical acumen in diagnosing and treating the most complex infectious diseases."


----------



## Sean Khan

And SPUTNIK is back..... keeps running out and then comes back for a short while. And it's not for free (unlike the others).

Too late for me though.... I got the Chinese stuff running in my blood. Second shot due in 2 weeks.










*Lady getting jabbed by SPUTNIK in a Karachi hospital yesterday.*

Vaccinations are up from 100,000 people a day to almost 200,000 a day. By the end of the year we'll have 70 million people vaccinated. Hopefully.


----------



## Sean Khan

Hick people....

BTW, I have met more than one person who is taking every vaccine they can have... all of them at the same time.

One lady got a Moderna shot in USA, then came here and got a SPUTNIK shot and then lied on her form and got Sinopharm shot. *"Just in case".*

I expect her to turn into She-Hulk.. or an octopus.. or worse.


----------



## Sean Khan

My brother just got his first shot.

Wearing Hawaiian shirt... thinks it's lucky..... :rofl:

I got a Hawaiian shirt too... maybe I'll wear that for second shot? I need to find that purty medical student who took down my medical history.... Do girls like Hawaiian shirts?

Now everyone in my immediate family and friends has got at least one shot.

*Learn from the good example of Lei Feng! Get vaccinated you piece of %$&s....!*


----------



## Sean Khan

Click on a country or territory to see cases, deaths, and recoveries.

http://covidvisualizer.com


----------



## Quercusuber

treefork said:


>


It's so utterly stupid that it's not even funny anymore...


----------



## Sean Khan




----------



## Sean Khan

*At least 10 local COVID cases of Indian variants in Singapore*

https://sg.news.yahoo.com/at-least-10-covid-cases-indian-variants-singapore-community-105837858.html

Basically, Singapore trusted Indian vaccination certificate of visitors from India and did not ban flights from India.

*Didn't they know that all govt provided documentation in India can be faked for a cheap price??? *









300 Indian-Rupees is about $4 (American).

*Notice that fully vaccinated people are getting sick with this variant.*


----------



## Rodrossuk

I am off for my second Astra Zeneca Covid vaccination in about an hours time.

The first one made me pretty poorly for about a week so I feel like the condemned man !!!


----------



## Sean Khan

*First batch of homemade vaccine to be available by end of month.*

And this one is* single dose*. No second shot needed. It's the only way we can vaccinate everyone twice as fast. We won't have to fly in vaccines from China... just the raw materials.










https://tribune.com.pk/story/2298874/first-batch-of-homemade-vaccine-to-be-available-by-month-end-umar

Too late for me anyway... I have Sinopharm. This one is CanSinoBio. h34r:


----------



## Sean Khan

Vaccines seem to be having an effect already. Infections are going down.

And we haven't even started on people below 40.

Vaccinations for all age groups will start before the end of the month. Only 40 and above are being vaccinated right now and even that is having a braking effect.









That's evidence right there that the Chinese vaccines work.. and they work very well.

Why is there such propaganda against Chinese vaccines (specially from American media sources) is something I do not understand.

The new Chinese vaccine CanSino (a team up between Canada and China) will work even more spectacularly. Specially because you only need one shot and you are protected against all them new mutations.


----------



## Sean Khan

The Chief Minister of the Indian state of Punjab says, India's govt has blocked his state from getting liquid oxygen from Pakistan (just across the border) even though India can't make enough oxygen of it's own.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1623103/modi-govt-rejected-proposal-to-import-liquid-medical-oxygen-from-pakistan-says-indian-punjabs-cm

I guess it'll be political suicide for the Indian govt to accept oxygen from "the enemy". What a weird people.

Meanwhile .... hospital staff and doctors in India steal cash from dead Covid victims. I am told it's happening everywhere in India.






Unbelievable....


----------



## MOJAVE MO

I heard from my neighbor that all vaccines are variants of a tenderizing campaign put in play by an Alien Race with a discerning pallet. The vaccine acts a lot like that pop-up thermometer you'd get in a holiday turkey. Anyway, when the timer goes 'pop' then you are biologically prepared to be the critical ingredient in the Alien Bio-Fuel. 'Not much more to it than that', he says.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

:rofl:


----------



## Sean Khan

WHO classifies the triple-mutant Covid variant from India as a global health risk. Indian triple-mutant spreads more easily than the original virus *and it may able to evade vaccines.*


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1391850434466402312


----------



## Sean Khan

*Indian doctors warn against cow dung as COVID cure*

*https://www.yahoo.com/news/indian-doctors-warn-against-cow-013634750.html?.tsrc=fp_deeplink*

Doctors in India are warning against the practice of using cow dung in the belief it will ward off COVID-19, saying there is no scientific evidence for its effectiveness and that it risks spreading other diseases.

The coronavirus pandemic has wrought devastation on India, with 22.66 million cases and 246,116 deaths reported so far. *Experts say actual numbers could be five to 10 times higher*, and citizens across the country are struggling to find hospital beds, oxygen, or medicines, leaving many to die for lack of treatment.

In the state of Gujarat in western India, some believers have been going to cow shelters once a week to *cover their bodies in cow dung and urine* in the hope it will boost their immunity against, or help them recover from, the coronavirus.

In Hinduism, the cow is a sacred symbol of life and the earth, and for centuries Hindus have used cow dung to clean their homes and for prayer rituals, believing it has therapeutic and antiseptic properties.

"We see ... even doctors come here. Their belief is that this therapy improves their immunity and they can go and tend to patients with no fear," said Gautam Manilal Borisa, an associate manager at a pharmaceuticals company, who said the practice helped him recover from COVID-19 last year.

He has since been a regular at the Shree Swaminarayan Gurukul Vishwavidya Pratishthanam, a school run by Hindu monks that lies just across the road from the Indian headquarters of Zydus Cadila, which is developing its own COVID-19 vaccine. * (yes.. here it is... their famous "vaccine" made out of cow dung)*

*As participants wait for the dung and urine mixture on their bodies to dry, they hug or honour the cows at the shelter, and practice yoga to boost energy levels.* The packs are then washed off with milk or buttermilk.

*Doctors across the world have repeatedly warned against practising alternative treatments for COVID-19, saying they can lead to a false sense of security and complicate health problems. *

"There is no concrete scientific evidence that cow dung or urine work to boost immunity against COVID-19, it is based entirely on belief," said Dr JA Jayalal, national president at the Indian Medical Association.

*"There are also health risks involved in smearing or consuming these products - other diseases can spread from the animal to humans." (I can now see how the Indian virus became so bad overnight)*











Mo asked me "How could a billion people be wrong???"

How indeed. :rofl:


----------



## Sean Khan

Graph falls further as 5 million people vaccinated.

Everything is cool as long as the Indian virus doesn't jump to this side of the border.... which it will... eventually.

Meanwhile:

The Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) has noted with "grave concern" that passengers travelling to Pakistan - especially from Gulf states - have tested positive for the coronavirus upon arrival despite being in possession of negative PCR test results.

"Upon conducting an investigation into the issue, it has been found that passengers travelled to Pakistan using fake PCR negative test results and endangered not only passengers travelling with them, but also undermined the intense efforts being made at the national level to curb the spread of Covid-19," the CAA said in a notification dated May 10.

Looks like travel documents from Arab countries are worthless. Or their testing procedures are useless.


----------



## Sean Khan

Islamabad International Airport has deployed sniffing dogs for the detection of new variants of the coronavirus.

The dogs trained by Pakistan Army would sniff out swab samples collected from inbound passengers with high temperatures.

There would be no direct encounter between the dogs and the passengers.

==================================

*Dawgs can smell covid???*


----------



## Sean Khan

Airport authorities have agreed to use sniffer dogs to identify Covid-19-infected inbound travelers at Islamabad International Airport.

The sniffer dogs will detect the virus among the travelers *smelling the odors generated by infected people. **(smelling people directly??? Not smelling just the swabs?)*

Sniffer dogs are* a secondary screening tool *for detecting Covid-19 infection.* (okay then.. just the swabs...)*

A team of experts have already visited the airport and selected the site to deploy the sniffer dogs.

The health authorities have been using thermal scanners and Rapid Antigen tests to detect infected travelers at the airport to contain the covid-19 pandemic.

============================

*If it works, they will do the same at other airports.*

*I once asked someone how much it costs to get an army trained pup.... well they cost the same as a new car. Either get an army dog or get a new Chinese car (small one). I got the car (Cherry QQ)*

*







*


----------



## Sean Khan

*FAQs*

*Q: Do Covid-19 vaccines reduce the ability to make antibodies or affect the immune system?*

A: No, vaccines do not reduce the ability to make antibodies and do not suppress the immune system.

*Q: Is the vaccine safe for patients with diabetes, high blood pressure and arthritis?*

A: Vaccines are recommended for people with diabetes, hypertension, heart diseases etc. These are high-risk groups that must get vaccinated.

*Q: Should people getting dialysis, taking insulin, or those with pacemakers and transplants get vaccinated?*

A: People on insulin, dialysis and transplant recipients must get vaccinated. Dialysis patients and transplant recipients have a weaker immune system and as more information becomes available, vaccination schedule may be modified for these groups. For now, follow the current guidelines.

*Q: Should people with hepatitis, tuberculosis and HIV get vaccinated?*

A: People with tuberculosis, HIV and chronic hepatitis must get vaccinated. Discuss your condition with your doctor in detail.

*Q: I am a married man/woman and plan on starting a family soon. Will the Covid vaccine affect my fertility?*

A: Coronavirus vaccine, like all other vaccines, have no effect on fertility. None of the vaccines developed and in use for preventing childhood and adult infections have any effect on male or female reproduction.

Vaccines induce immunity against bacteria and viruses and not against human cells and tissues. Scientifically, it is impossible to induce infertility through the administration of a vaccine.

*Q: Is it safe for pregnant or lactating women to get the jab?*

A: All vaccines are safe for lactating mothers. Almost all vaccines are safe in pregnancy. However, for some vaccines, recommendations on risk versus benefit will be updated as more information becomes available.

*Q: Is there any category that should not be vaccinated?*

A: Vaccination should be deferred in acutely ill, hospitalised patients and those with acute Covid-19 infections.

In addition, those with a history of severe allergic reactions to vaccine preservatives/stabilisers in the past. It is important to check vaccine guidelines.

*Q: Why are children not being vaccinated?*

A: There is currently not enough safety data available. Generally, children are the last group to be subjected to clinical trials.

However, some preliminary data is available which suggests that Covid-19 vaccines may be safe and effective in children. We need to wait for more information and recommendations regarding this.

*Q: Why is Covid vaccine being given to people over the age of 60? Wouldn't it be too strong for their immune system?*

A: The age group most at risk for severe disease is 60 and above. Therefore, this is the priority group that must get vaccinated.

*Q: I and my wife are getting vaccinated while my parents, both above 60 and with Type2 diabetes, are refusing to vaccinate. I have young children at home. What's the way out?*

A: Explain the risks of disease transmission and the increased chance of serious disease and death if Covid-19 infection is acquired by someone who is over 60. Convince parents and the elderly to get vaccinated.

*Q: I got the Sputnik/Pfizer shots. Should I also go for the Chinese vaccines for added protection?*

A: If a complete course of one vaccine has been administered, it is not recommended to go for another type of vaccine.

*Q: Should a person over 50, who has recovered from Covid, get vaccinated?*

A: It is recommended that people who have recovered from Covid- 19 should get vaccinated. Immunity after recovery from infection needs to be boosted with the vaccine.

*Q: How long after recovering from the virus should one get vaccinated?*

A: Soon after complete recovery from infection.

*Q: How long does it take for antibodies to develop and how long does vaccine protection last? Do I need a booster dose in the future?*

A: Antibodies may take three weeks to develop after the second dose. However, immunity is a complex phenomenon and there are other mechanisms in the body which provide protection.

Therefore, monitoring antibodies post-vaccination is not recommended. Immunity may decline in 6-7 months. Booster doses may be required but there are no formal recommendations available regarding this as yet.

https://www.dawn.com/news/1623682/all-you-need-to-know-about-covid-vaccines-in-pakistan


----------



## Sean Khan

*The vaccines - a snapshot*

Following is brief information about the five vaccines approved by the Ministry of Health in Pakistan:

*Sinopharm:*

The Sinopharm vaccine has been developed by the Beijing Institute of Biological Products (BBIBP), a subsidiary of China National Biotec Group (CNBG). The BBIBP-CorV vaccine - popularly known as Sinopharm - is a chemically-inactivated whole virus vaccine for Covid-19. Sinopharm announced that the vaccine has an efficacy of 79.34 per cent.

Phase III trials with over 60,000 participants were carried out in Argentina, Bahrain, Egypt, Morocco, Pakistan, Peru, and the United Arab Emirates (UAE) in late December 2020. BBIBP-CorV shares similar technology with CoronaVac (Sinovac) and BBV152 (developed by Bharat Biotech) and uses inactivated virus vaccines for Covid-19.

On May 7, 2021, WHO listed the Sinopharm Covid-19 vaccine for emergency use, giving the green light for this vaccine to be rolled out globally. "The addition of this vaccine has the potential to rapidly accelerate Covid-19 vaccine access for countries seeking to protect health workers and populations at risk," said Dr Mariângela Simão, WHO Assistant-Director General for Access to Health Products. "We urge the manufacturer to participate in the Covax facility and contribute to the goal of more equitable vaccine distribution." In the case of the Sinopharm vaccine, the WHO assessment included on-site inspections of the production facility, a report on the WHO website said.

*Sinovac:*

Developed by the Chinese company Sinovac Biotech, CoronaVac, popularly known as Sinovac in Pakistan, is an inactivated virus Covid-19 vaccine. Phase III clinical trials have been conducted in Brazil, Chile, Indonesia, the Philippines, and Turkey. It relies on traditional technology similar to Sinopharm, BBV152, and other inactivated-virus Covid-19 vaccines.

Data from a real-world study in Chile showed that the Sinovac vaccine was 67pc effective in preventing symptomatic infection. "The CoronaVac vaccine was 85pc effective in preventing hospitalisations and 80pc effective in preventing deaths," the Chilean government said, according to a media report.

"The Covid-19 vaccine produced by China's Sinovac Biotech is efficacious in preventing Covid-19 in adults under 60 but some quality data on the risk of serious adverse effects is lacking, World Health Organisation experts have found. The independent experts on the WHO's Strategic Advisory Group of Experts (SAGE) reviewed Sinovac's CoronaVac jab from Phase III clinical trials in China, Brazil, Indonesia, Turkey and Chile," a Reuters report, published on May 6, 2021, said.

*Sputnik V:*

Developed by Russia's Gamaleya Research Institute of Epidemiology and Microbiology, Sputnik V is an adenovirus viral vector vaccine for Covid-19. The vaccine uses a modified viral vector to deliver genetic material coding for a desired antigen into the recipient's host cells. Published in The Lancet, an interim report from the trial indicated 91.6pc efficacy without unusual side effects. In December 2020, countries including Russia, Argentina, Belarus, Hungary, Serbia and the UAE allowed emergency use of the vaccine.

According to the manufacturer, Sputnik V is one of the three vaccines in the world with efficacy of over 90pc. "The Vaccine's efficacy is confirmed at 91.6pc based on the analysis of data on 19,866 volunteers, who received both the first and second doses of the Sputnik V vaccine or placebo at the final control point of 78 confirmed Covid-19 cases," it adds.

WHO technical experts were due to start the next round of their review of Russia's Sputnik V vaccine against Covid-19 jointly with the European Medicines Agency on May 10.

*CanSino (AD5-nCOV):*

Developed by the Chinese military and Tianjin-based CanSino Biologics, AD5-nCOV, trade-named Convidecia, is a single-dose viral vector Covid-19 vaccine. Trials data, shared in February 2021, showed that the vaccine had a 65.7pc efficacy in preventing moderate symptoms of Covid-19, and 91pc efficacy in preventing severe disease.

Phase III trials have been conducted in Argentina, Chile, Mexico, Pakistan, Russia, and Saudi Arabia with 40,000 participants since late 2020.

*AstraZeneca:*

The Oxford-AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine, brand names Vaxzervia and Covishield (codenamed AZD1222), is for people aged 18 years and older. The AstraZeneca vaccine has a modified adenovirus containing the gene for making a protein from SARS-CoV-2. The vaccine, which does not contain the virus itself, cannot cause Covid-19.

AstraZeneca Covid-19 vaccine showed effectiveness of about 62pc in preventing symptomatic Covid-19 disease beginning two weeks after the second dose.

The vaccine has been associated with an increased risk of blood clots in combination with low levels of blood platelets. According to the European Medicines Agency, as of April 4, 2021, 222 cases of blood clots have been reported from the European Economic Area and the UK, where around 34 million people have received the vaccine.

However, the Ministry of National Health Services in its guideline has said that the vaccine must not be used for adults below 40 years of age (pending safety data), people with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component (e.g polysorbate) of the vaccine formulation, those having active GI bleeding disorder or seizures as well as those with history of heparin-induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (HITT or HIT type 2) amongst other conditions.

*Guidelines for vaccines*

*AstraZeneca*

*Who should receive AstraZeneca*


All adults over the age of 40 years
Eligible adults with diabetes, hypertension, heart disease and other stable chronic disorders
Those with mild Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once the isolation period is complete
Those with severe Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once they become stable
Those chronically immunosuppressed may receive the vaccine, though efficacy may be lower

*Who should NOT receive AstraZeneca*


Adults below 40 years of age (pending safety data)
People with a history of severe allergic reaction to any component (e.g polysorbate) of the vaccine formulation
The vaccine is not recommended for people younger than 18 years of age pending the results of further studies
People who developed clotting disorder with the first dose of AstraZeneca vaccine
Individuals running a fever at the time of coming for vaccination (can be rescheduled after the illness is settled)
Individuals on short-term immunosuppressive medication should wait for 28 days after the medication ends
Those with active GI bleeding disorder or seizures
Those with a history of heparin-induced thrombocytopenia and thrombosis (HITT or HIT type 2)
Those with a history of major blood clot occurring at the same time as having low levels of platelets after receiving any Covid-19 vaccine

*Sinovac Vaccine (CoronaVac)*

*Who should receive CoronaVac*


Individuals who are above 18 years of age
Vaccination is recommended for persons with comorbidities that have been identified as increasing the risk of severe Covid-19, including obesity, cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease and diabetes
Pregnant women and those who are breastfeeding

*Who should NOT receive CoronaVac*


Individuals who are below 18 years of age. The safety and efficacy of CoronaVac in children and adolescents below 18 have yet to be established
People with history of allergic reaction to CoronaVac or other inactivated vaccine, or any component of CoronaVac (active or inactive ingredients, or any material used in the process)
Previous severe allergic reactions to the vaccine (e.g. acute anaphylaxis, angioedema, dyspnea, etc.)
People with severe neurological conditions (e.g. transverse myelitis, Guillain-Barré syndrome, demyelinating diseases, etc.)

*Adverse Events Following Immunisation (AEFI)*

According to the grading standard of adverse reaction incidence from the Council for International Organisations of Medical Sciences (CIOMS), i.e. very common (10%), common (1%-10%), uncommon (0.1%-1%), rare (0.01%-0.11%) and very rare (<0.01%). All adverse reactions are summarised and described as follows:

*Local adverse reaction at injection site*


Very common: pain
Common: swelling, pruritus, erythema, induration
Uncommon: burn at injection site

*Systemic adverse reactions*


Very common: headache, fatigue
Common: myalgia, nausea, diarrhea, arthralgia, cough, chills, pruritus, loss of appetite, rhinorrhea, sore throat, nasal congestion, abdominal pain
Uncommon: vomiting, hypersensitivity, fever, tremor, flushing, edema, dizziness, drowsiness
Rare: muscle spasms, eyelid edema, nose bleeds/epistaxis, abdominal distension, constipation, hyposmia, hot flashes, hiccup, conjunctival congestion

*Severity of adverse reactions*


The severity of adverse reactions observed in these clinical trials is mainly Grade 1 (mild); the incidence rate of adverse reactions for Grade 3 and above was 1.31pc
Grade 3 and above adverse reactions include pain at injection site, cough, fever, headache, sore throat, abdominal pain, dizziness and drowsiness.

*Serious adverse event (SAE)*


No serious adverse event related to vaccination was identified

*Sinopharm*

*Who should receive the vaccine*


Individuals who are 18 years of age and above
Vaccination is recommended for persons with comorbidities that have been identified as increasing the risk of severe Covid-19, including obesity, cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease and diabetes
Pregnant women and those who are breastfeeding

*Who should NOT receive Sinopharm vaccine*


Individuals running a fever at the time of coming for vaccination (can be rescheduled after the illness is settled)
Patients with active Covid-19
Those with mild Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once the isolation period is complete
Those with severe Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once they become stable
Individuals on short-term immunosuppressive medication should wait for 28 days after the medication ends
Those chronically immunosuppressed may receive the vaccine, though efficacy may be lower
Those post-transplantation may receive the vaccine three months after transplantation
Those post-chemotherapy may receive the vaccine 28 days after chemotherapy

*CanSino Bio*

*Who should receive the vaccine*


Individuals who are above 18 years of age
Vaccination is recommended for persons with comorbidities that have been identified as increasing the risk of severe Covid-19, including obesity, cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease and diabetes
Pregnant women and those who are breastfeeding

*Who should NOT receive the CanSino vaccine*


Individuals running a fever at the time of coming for vaccination (can be rescheduled after the illness is settled)
Patients with active Covid-19
Those with mild Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once the isolation period is complete
Those with severe Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once they become stable
Individuals on short-term immunosuppressive medication should wait for 28 days after the medication ends
Those chronically immunosuppressed may receive the vaccine, though efficacy may be lower
Those post-transplantation may receive the vaccine three months after transplantation
Those post-chemotherapy may receive the vaccine 28 days after chemotherapy

*Sputnik V*

*Who should receive the vaccine*


Individuals who are 18 years of age and over
Vaccination is recommended for persons with comorbidities that have been identified as increasing the risk of severe Covid-19, including obesity, cardiovascular disease, respiratory disease and diabetes
Pregnant women may receive the vaccine after consultation with their doctor. Women who are breastfeeding may take the vaccine

*Who should NOT receive the Sputnik vaccine*


Individuals running a fever at the time of coming for vaccination (can be rescheduled after the illness is settled)
Patients with active Covid-19
Those with mild Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once the isolation period is complete
Those with severe Covid-19 can receive the vaccine once they become stable
Individuals who had severe post-vaccination complication with component I should not receive component II

*Concurrent Illness*


As with other vaccines, administration of Sputnik V should be postponed in individuals suffering from an acute severe febrile illness. However, the presence of a minor infection, such as cold and/or low-grade fever should not delay vaccination.

*Thrombocytopenia and coagulation disorders*


Sputnik V should be given with caution to individuals with thrombocytopenia, any coagulation disorder or to persons on anticoagulation therapy, because bleeding or bruising may occur following an intramuscular administration in these individuals.

*Immuno-compromised individuals*


It is not known whether individuals with impaired immune responsiveness, including individuals receiving immunosuppressant therapy, will elicit the same response as immune-competent individuals to the vaccine regimen. Immuno-compromised individuals may have a relatively weaker immune response to the vaccine regimen.
Individuals on short-term immune-suppressive medication should wait for 28 days after the medication ends
Those chronically immune-suppressed may receive the vaccine, though efficacy may be uncertain
Those post-transplantation may receive the vaccine three months after transplantation
Those post-chemotherapy may receive the vaccine 28 days after chemotherapy

*Duration and level of protection*


The duration of protection has not yet been established
As with any vaccine, Sputnik V may not protect all vaccine recipients


----------



## Sean Khan

Graph falls further:


----------



## High Desert Flipper

It is hard to get perspective for what is going on. My college class is mostly young adults who all know Covid-19 only kills about 1% of those it infects. So for an extra credit question I asked them to look up the top twenty causes of death in the US in 2020 and tell me if Covid-19 made the list. About half of them did the question, and I got some interesting answers.


----------



## Sean Khan




----------



## Pee_Drizzle

High Desert Flipper said:


> It is hard to get perspective for what is going on. My college class is mostly young adults who all know Covid-19 only kills about 1% of those it infects. So for an extra credit question I asked them to look up the top twenty causes of death in the US in 2020 and tell me if Covid-19 made the list. About half of them did the question, and I got some interesting answers.


Yeah, i know what you mean here Flipper, But how many people died on 9/11?


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## Pee_Drizzle

Wait, sorry.. it looked like i just made a 'but billy stole threeeee cookies!' argument.

What i meant was that the world is chaotic and reacts in unpredictable, and always imperfect ways.


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## Sean Khan

Since yesterday, people are getting two very special phone calls (not texts).

1.* "Thank you for participating in the Covid vaccine trials. You received the real vaccine, NOT a placebo. There is no further need to get vaccinated."*

2. *"Thank you for participating in the Covid vaccine trials. You were given a placebo. Please head to the nearest vaccination center and get yourself vaccinated."*

These phone calls are from the Ministry of Health. Not a hoax.

Mighty nice of them.


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## High Desert Flipper

Pee_Drizzle said:


> Wait, sorry.. it looked like i just made a 'but billy stole threeeee cookies!' argument.
> 
> What i meant was that the world is chaotic and reacts in unpredictable, and always imperfect ways.


The world is silly and chaotic, and sometimes it focusses on some things and while seeming to miss others. I also asked my class to look up the number of LE officers killed in the line of duty every year for the last decade and compare that to the number of front line health care workers killed by Covid-19 over the past year.

Very few realized that C-19 was the third leading cause of death in the US last year, and they were equally shocked to compare death rates among various groups of front line workers like LE and health care workers. And this in no way minimizes the LE, just provides what I think is a needed focus on health care workers that literally put their lives on the line to serve others, much like LE.


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## Pee_Drizzle

Ahhh, i think i get what youre saying now.
I think a generally accurate public perspective is slowely coming along. At leats were getting some good practice for dealing with this type of thing, we may well need it.


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## cromag

High Desert Flipper said:


> Pee_Drizzle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wait, sorry.. it looked like i just made a 'but billy stole threeeee cookies!' argument.
> 
> What i meant was that the world is chaotic and reacts in unpredictable, and always imperfect ways.
> 
> 
> 
> The world is silly and chaotic, and sometimes it focusses on some things and while seeming to miss others. I also asked my class to look up the number of LE officers killed in the line of duty every year for the last decade and compare that to the number of front line health care workers killed by Covid-19 over the past year.
> 
> Very few realized that C-19 was the third leading cause of death in the US last year, and they were equally shocked to compare death rates among various groups of front line workers like LE and health care workers. And this in no way minimizes the LE, just provides what I think is a needed focus on health care workers that literally put their lives on the line to serve others, much like LE.
Click to expand...

Did you give them a choice of where to source the data for their numbers? What source has real credibility without an ulterior motive?


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## treefork




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## High Desert Flipper

Did you give them a choice of where to source the data for their numbers? What source has real credibility without an ulterior motive?

Yes, students were free to get the numbers anywhere they wanted, they just had to tell me where they got the numbers. Many sources had all the numbers- i.e. several different places tallied total deaths for 2020 and I wouldn't accept the top ten causes of death list from national health stats with a covid add in from "a web site my neighbors uncle found". Same for LE vs health care provider stats, these can both be found in the same data sets at several different places. This was also a question some of the better students asked- a few who looked info up from several different sites to ask if numbers were consistent or varied got extra credit. I've got some bright students who like to kick the tires.

I also never told them what the answer was, just asked them to go find it, think it over, and let me know what the answer was and what they thought about it.

Turns out I'm not very good at this supposed indoctrination game that some think we play in higher ed.


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## treefork




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## High Desert Flipper

I do almost all of my class this way, I give the students open homework questions without telling them what the answers are. Topics are always things I have not gone over in class yet. They are free to find the info wherever they want, they just have to have a source. Then, after they have done this, we spend the class discussing, often with them carrying the discussion. Having them look up info before I teach on a topic is a great way to prime them for the topic. After they have gotten a general sense, I can then go into details. Much better than a "thank you for being her today, now if you will open your text to page..." style of teaching.

The willingness to look for information and consider independently- the best cure for sheepleism!

Interestingly enough, the students found multiple sources for both the top ten causes of death and the numbers killed in line of duty for various professions. And in spite of a number of different sources where some of the actual hard numbers varied by a couple of percent, I didn't get any contradicting answers, i.e. the order of the top ten causes of death was the same and the relative amount of deaths in various professions were the same even if the numbers in the lists varied by a few percent.

All I really got was some surprised students who found looked in several different places and found info that ran contrary to some popular opinions which seem to be propagated by people who tend to pass things on more then look them up.

If you'll pardon the self promo- I think I'm a pretty good teacher even though I suck at that supposed indoctrination thing.


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## cromag

I'm here from the government and want to help you :imslow:.

Being at the age I am considered beyond mature , I heard of too many who past from the Wuhan flu that could have just as easily had their passing precipitated by an especially infuriating political statement. When money is on the hook even honest bureaucrats(oxymoron?) will take the hook.

I'm too old to stop being skeptical ,,,,BTW , don't get me wrong , our front line health care workers deserve a healthy hand shake. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


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## treefork

High Desert Flipper said:


> I do almost all of my class this way, I give the students open homework questions without telling them what the answers are. Topics are always things I have not gone over in class yet. They are free to find the info wherever they want, they just have to have a source. Then, after they have done this, we spend the class discussing, often with them carrying the discussion. Having them look up info before I teach on a topic is a great way to prime them for the topic. After they have gotten a general sense, I can then go into details. Much better than a "thank you for being her today, now if you will open your text to page..." style of teaching.
> 
> The willingness to look for information and consider independently- the best cure for sheepleism!
> 
> Interestingly enough, the students found multiple sources for both the top ten causes of death and the numbers killed in line of duty for various professions. And in spite of a number of different sources where some of the actual hard numbers varied by a couple of percent, I didn't get any contradicting answers, i.e. the order of the top ten causes of death was the same and the relative amount of deaths in various professions were the same even if the numbers in the lists varied by a few percent.
> 
> All I really got was some surprised students who found looked in several different places and found info that ran contrary to some popular opinions which seem to be propagated by people who tend to pass things on more then look them up.
> 
> If you'll pardon the self promo- I think I'm a pretty good teacher even though I suck at that supposed indoctrination thing.


Are the students in class now or has summer break begun ?


----------



## High Desert Flipper

cromag said:


> I'm here from the government and want to help you :imslow:.
> 
> Being at the age I am considered beyond mature , I heard of too many who past from the Wuhan flu that could have just as easily had their passing precipitated by an especially infuriating political statement. When money is on the hook even honest bureaucrats(oxymoron?) will take the hook.
> 
> I'm too old to stop being skeptical ,,,,BTW , don't get me wrong , our front line health care workers deserve a healthy hand shake. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


I get the skepticism. And in fact I try to teach the skepticism to my class.

For teaching a critical thinking / science class one of the early assignments I give them is to find an example of a scientist who cheated so badly that they had a paper retracted and a grant pulled. I give extra credit if they can find me one where the scientist faced criminal charges and jail time over the scientific fraud. I also go through several examples of "I am here from the govt to help" situations that have gone horribly wrong.

Again, I don't tell them where to look or what to find. They can bring any example they want. This ends up being a great exercise to show that 1) scientists are people and will cheat and lie just like anyone else, and 2) to look at how to vet claims and data by looking at how the cheating scientists got caught.

For the Covid numbers, there are actually some ways to vet and cross check the data. For instance, the question of other deaths (like heart attacks?) being blamed on and mis-attributed as covid deaths? You can look at the top causes of death year to year, say for the past ten years or so. If you find a source that has heart disease and cancer and number one and two for the last twenty years, you are probably looking at someone who has causes of death at least party right. If they have stroke, diabetes, Alzheimer's, and a few others a bit farther down the top ten list, they probably know what they are talking about. If they have car accidents as #1 for men under 25, they are probably pretty in tune with reality and may be a reliable source of data. And if they have this much right, it may be at least worth considering the number such a source would have for covid. But before doing so, it may be worth a bit of critical vetting to ask if they have made some mistakes.

If you take one of these sources you can ask where they put covid in 2020. From there, you can look at the average number of heart attacks per year for the last ten or twenty years and notice it is fairly steady. Then look at 2020 and see if it looks like heart attacks are suddenly only half of what they typically were for the past decade and if that difference is a match for covid daths. If it doesn't look like 300,000 plus heart attacks got shifted to the covid column, then it may be hard to think that heart attacks were shifted to the covid column. If it doesn't look like this happened, you can do the same analysis to look for other causes of death that may have been shifted to covid. The idea being if people are mis-attributing heart attack deaths as covid, then maybe we would expect to see the number of deaths from heart attacks go down by a number that is about what is claimed for covid.

If you are unable to find a category (or categories) that look abnormally low compared to past years that could explain the covid total, then one might wonder if the total number of deaths for the year is coming in higher than expected. To look at this, one can look up total number of deaths per year in the US and ask if 2020 had a blip up, and if so, if that blip is a fair match for the number claimed for covid. As it turns out, the number of deaths year over year is pretty steady and predictable in the US, so we can often notice if we have an uptick and then look at the year to see if something happened. When we do see an "excess death" number we can start comparing it to events that have happened and see if they might fit as an explanation. Looking up "excess death" 2020 is an interesting read for those who may be interested in asking if we had more people than expected die in 2020 and, if so, whether that number is potentially explained by this or that potential cause.

So, like in my class, I won't give the numbers but rather suggest some questions and lines of reasoning that may be interesting to explore for people who are interested in vetting various explanations. If any are interested in the numbers, I am happy to provide the ones I am familiar with and compare them to numbers others may have.


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## High Desert Flipper

treefork said:


>


I love this meme, and others like it with Ben Franklin, Abraham Lincoln, and so forth. The internet is certainly littered with information. The challenge is how to decide what information is real and what is bogus.

Take for instance the day I recalled how much I liked my wrist rocket as a kid. I hopped on the web and found fantastical claims about slings that didn't need wrist braces and would shoot 30% faster than my old wrist rocket with only half the draw weight using these things called "flat bands". Pretty amazing, almost shocking! But also intriguing! Especially when I dug a bit deeper and found that fascinating topic that is tapers.

So I looked around and noticed that several independent people were making the same claims and that several independent people were also posting results from tests. So while amazing, it looked like it might be legit, even though I found it on web. Either that or it was a cabal of liars, or a gaggle of delusional lunatics, or.... But I was still intensely interested nonetheless.

After digging a bit deeper I found not only claims and information from tests, but also some cool descriptions of this flat elastic which came in several varieties, an interesting history that included the evolution of these varieties (like from TBG to current elastics) and some "sciency" discussion of how these gains were possible- like the engineering discussion behind surface area to volume ratio of bands as the explanation for why bands out perform tubes, the explanations for why tapers do better than straights, the explanation why extended draws perform better than short draws (longer power stroke), etc..

From there I went on to actually get some of the stuff and do some testing myself. One of top ten best things I've done in the past decade!

So after some critical thinking, I arrived at the wonderful conclusion that the corner of the web known as "the slingshot forum" actually contains a wealth of valid, true, and useful information! Even though I found it and have only seen it on the web.

Sort of the way I approach the rest of the web. Not believing or disbelieving without first asking, pondering, kicking the tires, thinking critically, etc. And being the way I am, craving numbers and facts over opinions no matter how "expert" they are or how closely they align with mine.

The web is really no different from the radio, tv, or coffee shop counter. Just a whole lot bigger. All places will contain a lot of information and claims. Some of them will be real and valid, some of them not so much. And whether it be the radio, diner counter, or the web, it is up to the user to learn how to sift it or end up being a sucker for it.


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## Pee_Drizzle

Well said flipper.
Damn well said.


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## High Desert Flipper

treefork said:


> Are the students in class now or has summer break begun ?


I just got my final grading done and submitted earlier this week- I am currently out picking my son up from college a thousand miles away. Frustratingly, this has turned into the tour of the closed campgrounds along the front range of the Rockies- was looking forward to some nice relaxing time along the way but wasn't to be. But I did bring a couple of slings and have gotten to relax for a bit in some nice places most days.

The "what were the top ten causes of death in 2020" was an extra credit question on the take home final. We never went over the numbers in class but we took some time to discuss during the final exam period.


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## Sean Khan

> The "what were the top ten causes of death in 2020" was an extra credit question on the take home final.


The top 3 causes of war (or death, if you like) are, *women, land, and gold. *Since always.

My mama told me that when we wuz 5 year old.

*Running out of duct tape* would be number 4.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Sean Khan said:


> The "what were the top ten causes of death in 2020" was an extra credit question on the take home final.
> 
> 
> 
> The top 3 causes of war (or death, if you like) are, *women, land, and gold. *Since always.
> 
> My mama told me that when we wuz 5 year old.
> 
> *Running out of duct tape* would be number 4.
Click to expand...

I often think it can all be boiled down to Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll. Especially since money (gold) is an element of all three. But the running out of duct tape- that seems a notable omission!


----------



## SJAaz

High Desert Flipper said:


> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The "what were the top ten causes of death in 2020" was an extra credit question on the take home final.
> 
> 
> 
> The top 3 causes of war (or death, if you like) are, *women, land, and gold. *Since always.
> 
> My mama told me that when we wuz 5 year old.
> 
> *Running out of duct tape* would be number 4.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I often think it can all be boiled down to Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll. Especially since money (gold) is an element of all three. But the running out of duct tape- that seems a notable omission!
Click to expand...

The world aint been the same since they started pasteurizing beer.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Of course, many people think Sex, Drugs, and Rock and Roll (plus gambling) are also what drove the development of this internet from its crude early email and data transfer beginnings to the beast that we all enjoy. And I think this is a pretty credible assertion since all of these elements provided strong demand for streaming audio, video, and secure / private financial transactions. So maybe these are all a yin and yang thing, partly building us up while simultaneously destroying us. If nothing else, the world and life are interesting things to ponder.


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## High Desert Flipper

SJAaz said:


> The world aint been the same since they started pasteurizing beer.


I prefer the crude unfiltered with the yeast still in them brews myself.


----------



## SJAaz

High Desert Flipper said:


> SJAaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world aint been the same since they started pasteurizing beer.
> 
> 
> 
> I prefer the crude unfiltered with the yeast still in them brews myself.
Click to expand...

You betcha...pour it out of the bottle and leave 1/4 inch there.! Makes me smile.


----------



## Sean Khan

*India asks social media firms to remove reference to 'Indian variant' of coronavirus*

India's information technology (IT) ministry has written to all social media companies asking them to take down any content that refers to an "Indian variant" of the coronavirus, according to a letter issued on Friday which was seen by Reuters.

The World Health Organization said on May 11 that the coronavirus variant B.1.617, first identified in India last year, was being classified as a variant of global concern.

In a letter to social media companies on Friday, the IT ministry asked the companies to "remove all the content" that names or implies "Indian variant" of the coronavirus.

A senior Indian government source told Reuters the notice was issued to send a message "loud and clear" that such mentions of "Indian variant" spread miscommunication and hurt the country's image.

The IT ministry could not be reached for comment.

*Around the world, coronavirus variants have generically been referred to by doctors and health experts on the basis of where they are identified. This includes South Africa and Brazil variants.*

The Indian government is facing increased criticism over its handling of the coronavirus pandemic.

India has the highest number of Covid-19 cases in the world*.*

*====================================*

Unbelievable.... :slap:


----------



## Grandpa Pete

treefork said:


>





wll said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Oh my god, that is great.
> 
> I live in the country of Kalifornia, we are not allowed free speech unless CNN, MSNBC, says you can say that. ----- did i just say anything racist, If I did I'm sorry !
> 
> wll
Click to expand...

Your data is way off my friend. As someone who is a long time friend here in Colorado who lost four family members to Covid 19 I beg to differ.


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## Sean Khan

> As someone who is a long time friend here in Colorado who lost four family members to Covid 19 I beg to differ.


I know a guy who lost 6 family members. His family wasn't serious about any of it... poo pooing the idea of a virus taking us all out... until that happened.

Now they take it very very seriously. One of the first to be vaccinated in fact.

And even if you don't die, your body is changed. Many *MANY *have their heart, lungs and kidneys compromised... in many cases permanently. I had an increase in aches and pains I never had before.... felt like an older-than-old geezer. They couldn't find much wrong with me.... except that my hair started falling out *(why do you think I'm wearing a hat in my pic? :rofl: )*.

It is NOT "Hey, it's just like getting the flu!"... no way, no sir!

The Chinese vaccine seems to have improved the aches and pains a lot... maybe I'll get my hair back too. I am told hair loss is temporary.


----------



## ukj

Having close friend working hospital Geneve and hear
Reports, sure glad my wife is vaxed and hopefully me soon as well.
Imagine you are 14 better than average soccer player
and super active life in general, after 2 bouts with C -19
Almost half of former lung capacity lost, maybe to
not come back. Also know this family well, so unhappy for them.
I find myself more and more content doing my own thing
all alone, ones own company should be cherished I M H O!
ukj


----------



## Sean Khan

Yep. Dogs work. Already being tried out at Islamabad International.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-57200863

*Covid: Sniffer dogs could bolster screening at airports*

As part of a trial, dogs were trained to recognise a distinctive odour produced by people with the virus, but undetectable to the human nose.

This could come in useful for screening at airports or mass events.

Dogs can have up to 100,000 times the smelling ability of humans and have long been used to sniff out drugs and explosives.

Recent research has shown dogs - particularly breeds like spaniels and retrievers -* can detect the unique scents of diseases including cancer, Parkinson's and malaria.*

The dogs *were able to sniff out the disease even when it was caused by different variants, and when the person had no symptoms or only had very low levels of the virus in their system.*

The real potential advantage is speed: even the quickest tests take 15 minutes to show a result, while dogs can sniff out the disease in seconds.

Two dogs could screen 300 people in half an hour, researchers say.

*Woof!*


----------



## Sean Khan

*Single dose CanSino vaccine to be available for all citizens by end of May*

"The first batch of bulk CanSino vaccine is being processed at the National Institute of Health's plant, which was set up for this purpose last month, and a specially trained team is working on it," according to an official of the ministry of health.

The official added that due to the agreement on technology transfer, the NIH would be able to produce three million doses per month which would significantly reduce the country's dependence on other countries. *And this one is a new single dose vaccine, tested and tried successfully. *No second dose. That speeds up things a lot.

Right now we have 13 million doses of three different vaccines in storage.

All vaccinations (except for SPUTNIK) are free.

One huge problem is people who still think this virus is a joke/conspiracy and just refuse to get vaccinated.

*And there is a special place in H-e-ll for people who upload those magnet videos on youtube and twitter*.... you know the ones I am talking of. We all seen those. They just end up confusing people and make them doubt a good thing.

The other problem is we have 4-5 million refugees (Afghans, Burmese, etc) who have no ID. You can't get vaccinated without an ID. But you sure can get sick without one and spread it around like jam on toast.






:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


----------



## Pebble Shooter

Well, it looks at though the hypothesis of the Covid-19 (C.C.P) virus very likely having escaped from a research lab in Wuhan, China, is back on the table again - read here (Reuters):

https://www.reuters.com/business/healthcare-pharmaceuticals/wuhan-lab-staff-sought-hospital-care-before-covid-19-outbreak-disclosed-wsj-2021-05-23/

I'm not one to believe in conspiracy theories, but I sure would not put it past the C.C.P to have come up with an elaborate "divide and rule" plan to spread a potentially deadly virus to the rest of the world, after it "accidentally" (yeah, right...) escaped from the Wuhan lab concerned, and was then disseminated by means of blissfully ignorant Chinese travelers flying abroad for holidays - while the C.C.P doubtlessly already had a ready vaccine available to contain the problem in mainland China beyond Wuhan: the deaths in Wuhan (opaque statistics) were merely acceptable collateral damage for the Beijing-based government.

The official explanations as to where the virus originated (bats) are simply not credible, particularly in view of that huge virus research lab located just a few blocks away from the animal market. They're just telling us what suits them.

The purpose of this diabolical plan may have been to unleash absolute chaos primarily in America and Europe, two continents deemed problematic in terms of economic competition for a Chinese leadership determined to establish global economic, political, and military hegemony. Did I say biological warfare covered up by brilliant C.C.P propaganda, and supported by the WHO, an organization that is clearly under the Chinese boot?

I sure hope that was not the case, but I do not have any trust in anything the Chinese government says these days.


----------



## Sean Khan

I am surprised they left out *"Huawei Huawei Huawei...!!!"* this time... :banana:

I call that progress.


----------



## Sean Khan

Our own vaccine... it's Chinese but made here... no more need to send planes to China. Single dose, latest tech, first of the 2nd generation vaccines. Probably better than the one I got. And is able to handle the bloody Indian-Covid, unlike Pfizer.

Human trials were very successful.

Nice to know it's here in case Covid is still around after a year or two.


----------



## Sean Khan

Pakistan Air Force regrets it gave it's pilots Astra-Zeneca.

An internal letter leaked to the press today (click twice to read larger text):









Imagine carrying a nuke and falling asleep.... :bouncy:


----------



## Sean Khan

*THIS is what govts are afraid of.*

*Africa donates food to India*

Kenya has donated 12 tonnes of food products to India as part of its COVID-19 relief efforts, a statement said on Friday.

The east African country has sent 12 tonnes of tea, coffee and groundnut produced locally to the Indian Red Cross Society, it said adding that the packets will be distributed across Maharashtra with food aid.

"The Government of Kenya wishes to stand in solidarity with the people and Government of India during this time of the COVID-19 pandemic by donating consumable food stuffs," Willy Bett, High Commissioner of the African country to India, said.

Mr. Bett, who came to the financial capital from New Delhi to hand over the food articles, said the donation is directed to the frontline care givers who continue to work long hours to save lives.

=============================

India's economy has been so thoroughly trashed by COVID, *AFRICA is now giving food to India!*

Covid destroys economies.


----------



## treefork




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## Sean Khan

World Health Organization certifies China's second vaccine (SinoVac) as okay for use. SinoPharm (which I got) was the only other Chinese vaccine certified by the WHO until now.

This enables both Chinese vaccines to be part of the COVAX program, giving China enormous clout in the "vaccine wars". Third Chinese vaccine will also be certified soon.


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## Sean Khan

Further evidence that Chinese vaccines work. Our graph goes down again. This is after we just vaccinated 11 million people* (400,000 a day)*. World positivity rate is around 6%.* Ours has gone down to 3.7%.*









With more and more places around the world starting to use and trust Chinese shots, the outstanding protection efficacy of the shots has refuted Western media's long-existing smear campaign and doubt-raising over China-made vaccines.

And yes, they protect against the Brazilian mutation and probably against the Indian virus too (still being tested). What they can't protect against is people trying to use cow dung as a cure (Chinese vaccines are banned in India anyway).


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## Sandstorm

My localities situation? I dunno, I stopped paying attention. I wear the mask. Gonna wait on the shot because I never buy the first model of anything. Honestly, I think there's something weird about the entire thing. Can't put my finger on what exactly and I'm not saying there isn't a virus. But something doesn't add up. Call it intuition I suppose. Or stupidity.  Guess we'll see!


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## Slide-Easy

Maryland's Governor sent out emails on March 19, 2021 announcing that the State had recieved funding from the Feds called 'The American Rescue Plan Act of 2021' to pass along to those already on unemployment until September 4, 2021. The email was full of self promoted backslaps that they are working for you, bla, bla, bla. To many it was seen a a sigh of relief.

Yesterday Maryland's Govenor sent out an email saying he was stopping 'The American Rescue Plan Act of 2021' early, on July 4th 2021. I had to chuckle. at the date he chose. The way I see it, that is Federal monies already given to Maryland for this purpose......What he did not share is what he was doing with those monies after the Fourth of July this year. I think I will call a lawwyer. I would rather a lawyer take it all in retainers than them get away with it.

This type of behaivor in known as 'Indian-Giving'. I was taught by my family that it is a dishonorable act. You never hear it called out any more, but to me it is worse than being a Racicist. Racism is an attitude that takes place in ones mind......Indian-Giving and Discrimination are overt acts that take place in the real world. Most folks that are called Racist, today, have absolutely no way to truly Distriminate against anyone.


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## High Desert Flipper

Pretty boring here as NM has really low numbers and I am a month plus out from the second jab. A couple months out from knowing anyone who died from it so thankful for that, and hopeful that we can finish this off instead of keeping it festering long enough for a vaccine beating variant to pop out. One thing mother nature and I have in common- give us enough chances and we may figure it out.


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## Slide-Easy

High Desert Flipper said:


> Pretty boring here as NM has really low numbers and I am a month plus out from the second jab. A couple months out from knowing anyone who died from it so thankful for that, and hopeful that we can finish this off instead of keeping it festering long enough for a vaccine beating variant to pop out. One thing mother nature and I have in common- give us enough chances and we may figure it out.


Trump Won, China Lied.


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## Sean Khan




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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

Indian leader sez on TV (now it's on YouTube), "I asked a NASA scientist* 'what is the best way you know of protection against radiation?*'... and the American said *'Cow dung, of course. Rub it all over yourself and jump into a ditch right before your enemy drops the big one on you'*...."

I have no idea what kind of "NASA scientist" the Indian minister talked to (and why would NASA give advice on nukes?) ... but I do know American style humor when I see it. :rolling:

Trust the Indians to take it seriously. :slap:


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## Sean Khan

There is a reason why* Pakistan is exactly one day OLDER than India.*

British didn't understand what was the hurry to split from India... we told them *"even one more day is too much"*. So we got Independence a day early.... just to make a point. :rofl:

It's all about who can have cheese-burgers and who can't. :neener:

My brother made this video long ago when we didn't have mobile phone cameras. So please excuse the quality of the video:






I love "hunter beef" (shredded beef marinated in lemon) and have some of these kind of burgers every week. These guys.. "Hanifia burgers"... have been selling the very same cheese-burgers since last 100 years.


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## Sean Khan

And then Indians wonder, *"Why are we getting COVID so bad?????"*

Or ..*"Why isn't the vaccine we make, working???"*

*THAT is why.*

1. Cow dung will NOT bring you luck.

2. Cow dung will NOT protect you against atomic radiation.

3. Cow dung will NOT protect you against COVID-19.

4. Cow dung is NOT a good raw material for making a vaccine.

There is a reason why I said here that I would not use Astra-Zeneca vaccine if it's made-in-India.. have ZERO trust if it comes from THEM. The one we got here now is not made-in-India as far as I know.... but I had already been vaccinated by the time it was available so the question didn't matter anyway.


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## High Desert Flipper

Crazy to see the whackadoodle things people will buy into all around the world.


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## Sandstorm

Cow dung works great for chapped lips though. Rub some on there and you’re guaranteed not to lick your lips the rest of the day.


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## High Desert Flipper

NM jumped on the bandwagon of states offering a lottery for those who got vaccinated- a couple $1M prizes I think. Heard a news story about another state (WV maybe?) doing similar but adding college scholarships as some of the prizes. I guess they are figuring they can bribe some they couldn't convince.

Happily those who already got jabbed are automatically entered. A free entry into a game with better odds than powerball for something I already did. Can't complain too much about that. Still long odds, but a round of slings on my if I get lucky.


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## SJAaz

Sandstorm said:


> My localities situation? I dunno, I stopped paying attention. I wear the mask. Gonna wait on the shot because I never buy the first model of anything. Honestly, I think there's something weird about the entire thing. Can't put my finger on what exactly and I'm not saying there isn't a virus. But something doesn't add up. Call it intuition I suppose. Or stupidity.  Guess we'll see!


Me too! Somebody somewhere is making his children and grandchildren wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. I'm not smart enough to figure out how or who.


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## Sandstorm

SJAaz said:


> Sandstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> My localities situation? I dunno, I stopped paying attention. I wear the mask. Gonna wait on the shot because I never buy the first model of anything. Honestly, I think there's something weird about the entire thing. Can't put my finger on what exactly and I'm not saying there isn't a virus. But something doesn't add up. Call it intuition I suppose. Or stupidity.  Guess we'll see!
> 
> 
> 
> Me too! Somebody somewhere is making his children and grandchildren wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. I'm not smart enough to figure out how or who.
Click to expand...

 Yeah I definitely have thoughts on the matter but after I made that last post I actually felt like I probably shouldn't have. I probably would have deleted it in hindsight. I decided I'd rather just hang out in the shooting cans with steel section. Way more fun over there and less controversial. 
Everyone remembers Thanksgiving as the day the whole family got together and an argument would inevitably ensue about one thing or another. These days we've turned almost the whole internet into Thanksgiving, minus the pleasant food and the coma on the couch in front of the football game . I'll just stick with talking about Wham-O's and PP's and Pickleforks and other oddly named slinging things. There's a little piece of paradise over there, don't wanna ruin it for myself haha!  Oh, with the exception of the cow dung joke. That can stay.


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## cromag

Sandstorm said:


> SJAaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> My localities situation? I dunno, I stopped paying attention. I wear the mask. Gonna wait on the shot because I never buy the first model of anything. Honestly, I think there's something weird about the entire thing. Can't put my finger on what exactly and I'm not saying there isn't a virus. But something doesn't add up. Call it intuition I suppose. Or stupidity.  Guess we'll see!
> 
> 
> 
> Me too! Somebody somewhere is making his children and grandchildren wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. I'm not smart enough to figure out how or who.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I definitely have thoughts on the matter but after I made that last post I actually felt like I probably shouldn't have. I probably would have deleted it in hindsight. I decided I'd rather just hang out in the shooting cans with steel section. Way more fun over there and less controversial.
> Everyone remembers Thanksgiving as the day the whole family got together and an argument would inevitably ensue about one thing or another. These days we've turned almost the whole internet into Thanksgiving, minus the pleasant food and the coma on the couch in front of the football game . I'll just stick with talking about Wham-O's and PP's and Pickleforks and other oddly named slinging things. There's a little piece of paradise over there, don't wanna ruin it for myself haha!  Oh, with the exception of the cow dung joke. That can stay.
Click to expand...

"Playing nice" is what has got us to where we are today.


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## Sandstorm

cromag said:


> Sandstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SJAaz said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sandstorm said:
> 
> 
> 
> My localities situation? I dunno, I stopped paying attention. I wear the mask. Gonna wait on the shot because I never buy the first model of anything. Honestly, I think there's something weird about the entire thing. Can't put my finger on what exactly and I'm not saying there isn't a virus. But something doesn't add up. Call it intuition I suppose. Or stupidity.  Guess we'll see!
> 
> 
> 
> Me too! Somebody somewhere is making his children and grandchildren wealthy beyond their wildest dreams. I'm not smart enough to figure out how or who.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yeah I definitely have thoughts on the matter but after I made that last post I actually felt like I probably shouldn't have. I probably would have deleted it in hindsight. I decided I'd rather just hang out in the shooting cans with steel section. Way more fun over there and less controversial.
> Everyone remembers Thanksgiving as the day the whole family got together and an argument would inevitably ensue about one thing or another. These days we've turned almost the whole internet into Thanksgiving, minus the pleasant food and the coma on the couch in front of the football game . I'll just stick with talking about Wham-O's and PP's and Pickleforks and other oddly named slinging things. There's a little piece of paradise over there, don't wanna ruin it for myself haha!  Oh, with the exception of the cow dung joke. That can stay.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> "Playing nice" is what has got us to where we are today.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I'm very thankful for all that I have, including this great community.


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## Slide-Easy

Trump Won. Fauci Lied.


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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

Who is this "Fauci" guy and what did he do wrong?


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## High Desert Flipper

I love this forum, in part because it is an excellent example of common ground. People who see some topics at opposite ends of the spectrum still share a love of slingshots. It's like I tell my kids, nobody is all bad or all good. The worst will surprise you and the best will let you down once in a while. And the smartest will glom onto idiocy now and again while even the most moronic will get it right once in a while. So better to be patient and understanding while celebrating common ground and letting some of the other stuff slide now and then- especially when it doesn't affect you directly.

I think one of the great aspects of this forum is people with very diverse opinions on other topics realizing they have at least some overlapping interests and likes. Would be nice if more of the country had experiences like this, we might end up less polarized over a small number of issues.


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## treefork




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## cromag

Avoid catching the Wuhan flu by avoiding contaminated areas for continuous periods of time if crowds are present,,,,so we want you to go stand for an hour or two in a building with a crowd of individuals some of whom may be contaminated and get a shot to prevent the virus. Hello , I'm from the government and I'm here to help. :hmm:

• If a guy pretends to be a woman, you are required to pretend with him.

• Somehow it's un-American for the census to count how many Americans are in America .

• Russians influencing our elections are bad, but illegals voting in our elections are good.

• It was cool for Joe Biden to "blackmail" the President of Ukraine, but was an impeachable offense if Donald Trump inquired about it.

• Twenty is too young to drink a beer, but eighteen is old enough to vote.

• People who have never owned slaves should pay slavery reparations to people who have never been slaves.

• People who have never been to college should pay the debts of college students who took out huge loans for their degrees.

• Immigrants with tuberculosis and covid are welcome, but you'd better be able to prove your dog is vaccinated.

• Irish doctors and German engineers who want to immigrate to the US must go through a rigorous vetting process, but any illiterate gang member or terrorist who jumps the southern fence is welcome.

• $5 billion for border security is too expensive, but $1.5 trillion for "free" health care is not.

• If you cheat to get into college you go to prison, but if you cheat to get into the country you go to college for free.

• People who say there is no such thing as gender are demanding a female President.

• We see other countries going Socialist and collapsing, but it seems like a great plan for us.

• Some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, and other people are not held responsible for what they are doing right now.

• Criminals are caught-and-released to hurt more people, but stopping them is bad because it's a violation of THEIR rights.

• And pointing out all this hypocrisy somehow makes us "racists"?!


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## Sean Khan

Just a few months ago, our "positivity rate" had gone up to 8%.

And now it's 2.5%. And dropping. Thank you Chinese Vaccine, thank you Micro-Lockdown and most of all, THANK YOU Face-Mask.










The "positivity rate" is how scientists and policy makers measure how your country is doing. It's "how many tested-people out of a hundred tested positive". It doesn't matter if you tested a few hundred or a few million... the number remains accurate.

World average is or was 7%-12%. According to CDC, America's positivity rate has also fallen below 3%.


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## Sean Khan

Pakistan donated emergency Covid supplies to the US last year. I didn't know that.



















A pallet of protective masks sits at Joint Base Andrews, Maryland, May 21, 2020. 

The masks were part of a donation from the Pakistan Government, which included 100,000 protective masks and 25,000 coveralls to help support the United States as it combats the coronavirus pandemic.

*U.S Air Force photo by Tech. Sgt. Kentavist P. Brackin*


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## treefork

.


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## Sean Khan

^ or * but never ! 🤣


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## treefork

Sean Khan said:


> ^ or * but never ! 🤣


Still getting adjusted to new format . Had a really funny covid gif that wouldn't post .


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## Sean Khan

treefork said:


> Had a really funny covid gif that wouldn't post .


Perhaps you forgot to pay tribute to *Covid goddess*? 








_*Indian priests pray for mercy from COVID ‘goddess’*_

Seriously though, if it doesn't work, then download to your computer first and then drag and drop here.


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## treefork




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## treefork

> Sean Khan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously though, if it doesn't work, then download to your computer first and then drag and drop here.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes . You were correct . Thanks
Click to expand...


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## spewing

Bit of a read, with some inserted comments.

NHS Told to Identify Patients Actually Sick From Covid-19 Rather Than Those Testing Positive -- Sott.net

Change the way you count things (possibly to the way they should have been counted from the beginning) and then “didn’t we do well”


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## Sean Khan

COVID-19: What’s your locality’s situation? - Part II


Islamabad International Airport has deployed sniffing dogs for the detection of new variants of the coronavirus. The dogs trained by Pakistan Army would sniff out swab samples collected from inbound passengers with high temperatures. There would be no direct encounter between the dogs and the...




www.slingshotforum.com





The covid smelling dogs are now being used at other airports around the country.

*This week alone, the doggies got 60... yeah.... 60..... passengers coming from some Arab country on FAKE covid certificates.*

They had no symptoms but the dogs caught them anyway. Dogs have a success rate of 88%.

The covid shot is for free (at least it is here)... WHY do they pay a ton of money for a fake certificate??? I don't get it.

Covid vaccination certificates from Arab nations can't be trusted. Very easy to fake.


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