# Reviving the Dark Arts - Frameless Shooting



## BushpotChef

Alright, I think it's time we put together a comprehensive frameless thread. This ones going to be a little different, as I'm hoping to generate interest from new recruits to this style, as well as get some vets to chime in on what they're doing lately & how they're doing it. I'll be working on an article in the coming weeks about various origins and variations on this particular style. My friend Min Mao of SniperSling Slingshots in China has given me a few history lessons which I will share, as well as the benefits and logic surrounding shooting in this manner. Anyone who wants to throw in a bit of info, ask a question, post a video, or share a setup please - don't hesitate. This is a thread for frameless shooters of all skill levels to share ideas and methods and try to learn more and get better at this mystical style.

Let me kick this off by saying I've recently been shooting 6mm steel with a loop of 1632 & a micro fibre pouch. I'm *stunned* how fast, flat and accurate this setup is. Usually I'm shooting a 2040 loop with anything from .36 -.45 lead to 5/8" marbles, so I thought the 1632 would basically be mid range paper puncher or close ranch can popper at best. Not so. This setup has plenty of poke and accuracy for 15 yard cans all day long! Pleasantly surprised, made up two sets, a magnetic lanyard and just ordered 1000 6mm's, lots of fun for dirt cheap!

So chime in, what's your setup when leaving the frames behind!?









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## Island made

Frameless is a lot of fun! Here's my setup, gzk black .66 5/8 x 3/8 x 14" long shooting 7/16 steel and marbles.


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## StringSlap

I gotta give this a try! Hoping people will post some fresh pics or vids on hand positions and techniques.

Does the ring finger style have any benefits over a solo band/tube? I've been leaning towards trying the ring finger first. I had one of the clamp style ones from GZK but I gave it away in a trade. Trader's remorse!


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## Tag

Sounds very interesting, I’m looking forward to future post on shooting frameless. I will be a dedicated observer.


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## Hunter-13

I've just started shooting frameless in the last couple weeks. It is one of my favorite to shoot. This video is from when I first started trying it out. I'll make a new one soon!


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## SLING-N-SHOT

I've just started shooting frameless about 3 was ago, thanks to some sling mail from Ray ( Kawkan ) who sent me 3 bareback/frameless rigs.

The one I shoot the most and keep on my wrist daily, is a single loop of 1632 tubing with a microfiber pouch....shooting BB's and 1/4"

The biggest tip I can share that I learned ( after repeated fumbles and the tube rolling off my index finger multiple times ) was to put a good pre stretch or tension on the band BEFORE you place your index finger into place under the upper tube, plus, I find it easier for me to make the frame, if I loop the tubing over my pinky instead of the two middle fingers.

Those were the two single most important things I learned to help me start shooting frameless.

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## Palmettoflyer

Might need to try this again. Gave it a try with mixed success about 6 months ago.


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## skarrd

been playing with this style for a couple years,off and on,finger positioning is the difficult part for me-arthritis-but it is a lot of fun,and a simple EDC,i'll keep trying ,


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## armando

Been playing around with a continuous loop of 2050 for hexnuts. With a long draw the power is quite crazy. How do I add pictures?


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## armando

Think I figured it out. Whats peoples favourite size tube to shoot? I like 1745 and 2050.


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## greenwart

I was interested in what frameless was about and watched a few utube videos yesterday. Your post got me motivated. Single 117b with bb pouch to get started. Couldn't be simpler. Shot it this morning and it looks like there will be a bit of a learning curve. But what fun.
Found the bands at wallyworld $2.69 for a 4oz bag.


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## Palmettoflyer

...So if Darrell can do it, then I'll have to give it a try!

Actually, I tried this a while back when there was a challenge presented on a facebook sling group. However, I was trying flat bands and bigger ammo. Managed to get through round 1 of the challenge with only shooting my fingers twice. When the challenge got too difficult, I moved on to other easier stuff like PFS shooting!

Darrell mentioned the 1632 band setup and knew I had some in my stash. Made an 18" band with the lightest and smallest GKZ pouch that I had on hand. It is raining here today, so only plinking out the garage door at stuff that I should not be shooting at! :WasntMe:

But will say, the 1632 setup with 1/4" steel, and 3/8" clay is quite impressive and seems to be accurate (at least at where I was aiming)!

Definitely going to be shooting this a lot more.


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## hoggy

i, like mr. tag, will be a dedicated observer.


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## BushpotChef

armando said:


> Think I figured it out. Whats peoples favourite size tube to shoot? I like 1745 and 2050.


1632 x 6mm, 1745 x 5/8" marbles, 2040 x .36 lead balls 

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## BushpotChef

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> I've just started shooting frameless about 3 was ago, thanks to some sling mail from Ray ( Kawkan ) who sent me 3 bareback/frameless rigs.
> 
> The one I shoot the most and keep on my wrist daily, is a single loop of 1632 tubing with a microfiber pouch....shooting BB's and 1/4"
> 
> The biggest tip I can share that I learned ( after repeated fumbles and the tube rolling off my index finger multiple times ) was to put a good pre stretch or tension on the band BEFORE you place your index finger into place under the upper tube, plus, I find it easier for me to make the frame, if I loop the tubing over my pinky instead of the two middle fingers.
> 
> Those were the two single most important things I learned to help me start shooting frameless.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Can't agree enough about 1632 and light steel & the point you added about creating pre tension on the rig before drawing out for the shot is *crucial* to consistent shooting.

I concur my good sir!

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## BushpotChef

StringSlap said:


> I gotta give this a try! Hoping people will post some fresh pics or vids on hand positions and techniques.
> 
> Does the ring finger style have any benefits over a solo band/tube? I've been leaning towards trying the ring finger first. I had one of the clamp style ones from GZK but I gave it away in a trade. Trader's remorse!


There's a guy who goes by Volp on YouTube he's got some great videos and a few instructions on his technique, hes a flatband guy most of the time. Thats something to consider as well flats wrap around the finger and hold position easier than tubes.

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## BushpotChef

Here's a vid from my old youtube channel I took last summer:






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## BushpotChef

And one explaining 3/4 frameless:






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## armando

By the way guys there is a Facebook group I am part of called frameless slingshot community. Learnt a few useful things on there, anyone is welcome.


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## MOJAVE MO

Hunter-13 said:


> I've just started shooting frameless in the last couple weeks. It is one of my favorite to shoot. This video is from when I first started trying it out. I'll make a new one soon!


Haha...great video. Each look to the camera said, "Sweet, missed the digits!!!" 

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## MOJAVE MO

I'll play along Chef. Like Skaard I've been tinkering off and on for a couple of years. Whenever I strap on a frameless rig I recall a thread where the infamous Jolly Roger burned down the house with glorious insults to those are the Slingshot Forum with 'nuthin but fingers and nonsense'! 
But seriously, I think I surprised myself after making up a set and actually hitting my target. Since it wasn't so daunting I just keep a set handy in case of emergencies. Just lately I picked up a seriously inexpensive Flatband Clamp from Pocket Predator and keep it in my bag to use if all else fails. I like the flatband because it distributes the stress over a more manageable area on my achy fingers. Keeping the tubes where they are suppose to be is a tad bit harder that the flats for me.









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## BushpotChef

MOJAVE MO said:


> I'll play along Chef. Like Skaard I've been tinkering off and on for a couple of years. Whenever I strap on a frameless rig I recall a thread where the infamous Jolly Roger burned down the house with glorious insults to those are the Slingshot Forum with 'nuthin but fingers and nonsense'!
> But seriously, I think I surprised myself after making up a set and actually hitting my target. Since it wasn't so daunting I just keep a set handy in case of emergencies. Just lately I picked up a seriously inexpensive Flatband Clamp from Pocket Predator and keep it in my bag to use if all else fails. I like the flatband because it distributes the stress over a more manageable area on my achy fingers. Keeping the tubes where they are suppose to be is a tad bit harder that the flats for me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


Yes old JR lol.. He snapped his yap when I put 10/10 inside 2" from 10m frameless in that one video LOL. He was a funny guy tho I miss his banter haha. Yes flats are easier those clips can be awesome also they let you shoot tapers frameless which opens up more doors in terms of possibly hunting. Give the dedication of meditation, that's how Ibtreat it. 

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## Hunter-13

Here's a video I made this afternoon Shooting .177BBs with #117B file bands I just picked up today. Surprised at the penetration it gets.


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## skarrd

so after watching some youtube vids,from some chinese shooters and one from a slinger named Volp,i have found a different anchoring system,instead of trying to bring the tubes over the fingernails,i tried it their way of over the knuckle and ball of the thumb,much more comforatable for my Old fingers,in the pics that is a string,no one here to take pics but me and the dogs,and they all pointed out that they did not have thumbs,so had to hold tension with teeth,LOL! i think this might work out very well


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## SLING-N-SHOT

skarrd said:


> so after watching some youtube vids,from some chinese shooters and one from a slinger named Volp,i have found a different anchoring system,instead of trying to bring the tubes over the fingernails,i tried it their way of over the knuckle and ball of the thumb,much more comforatable for my Old fingers,in the pics that is a string,no one here to take pics but me and the dogs,and they all pointed out that they did not have thumbs,so had to hold tension with teeth,LOL! i think this might work out very well


Yep, that's how I hold frameless also skarrd

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## skarrd

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> skarrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> so after watching some youtube vids,from some chinese shooters and one from a slinger named Volp,i have found a different anchoring system,instead of trying to bring the tubes over the fingernails,i tried it their way of over the knuckle and ball of the thumb,much more comforatable for my Old fingers,in the pics that is a string,no one here to take pics but me and the dogs,and they all pointed out that they did not have thumbs,so had to hold tension with teeth,LOL! i think this might work out very well
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's how I hold frameless also skarrd
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> yep,that over the fingernails/crooked fingers is a no go for these old hand bones
Click to expand...


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## skarrd

current line up,117's for BBs,1745[/?] and green mysterys [from Amazon] for 3/8s steels and clays


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## DragonEyeShooter1

I like some am still new at frameless but after seeing everybody on youtube try i set one up as soon i got mmt first roll of tubing and have kept one to play with here and there, currently 16-18" 1632 tubes small microfiber pouch and i gotta agree with everyone else so far, the pre tension is a must even with the one flatband setup i tried but the tubes are perfect for everything from .177 BBs to 3/8" clay, honestly though it makes me remember as a kid around my middle school years so probly 11-13 yrs old and we used to shoot shoot "Hornets" at each other, folded up pieces of paper folded very thick about an inch long and maybe 1/4" wide and then folded in half one last time to make a "V" shape we would steal the big office rubber bands from the teachers and shoot it in a pretty similar manner just without a pouchmore pinch and release


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## DragonEyeShooter1

I like some am still new at frameless but after seeing everybody on youtube try i set one up as soon i got mmt first roll of tubing and have kept one to play with here and there, currently 16-18" 1632 tubes small microfiber pouch and i gotta agree with everyone else so far, the pre tension is a must even with the one flatband setup i tried but the tubes are perfect for everything from .177 BBs to 3/8" clay, honestly though it makes me remember as a kid around my middle school years so probly 11-13 yrs old and we used to shoot shoot "Hornets" at each other, folded up pieces of paper folded very thick about an inch long and maybe 1/4" wide and then folded in half one last time to make a "V" shape we would steal the big office rubber bands from the teachers and shoot it in a pretty similar manner just without a pouch more pinch and release type shooting


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## DragonEyeShooter1

I like some am still new at frameless but after seeing everybody on youtube try i set one up as soon i got mmt first roll of tubing and have kept one to play with here and there, currently 16-18" 1632 tubes small microfiber pouch and i gotta agree with everyone else so far, the pre tension is a must even with the one flatband setup i tried but the tubes are perfect for everything from .177 BBs to 3/8" clay, honestly though it makes me remember as a kid around my middle school years so probly 11-13 yrs old and we used to shoot shoot "Hornets" at each other, folded up pieces of paper folded very thick about an inch long and maybe 1/4" wide and then folded in half one last time to make a "V" shape we would steal the big office rubber bands from the teachers and shoot it in a pretty similar manner just without a pouch more pinch and release type shooting


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## StringSlap

skarrd said:


> SLING-N-SHOT said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skarrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> so after watching some youtube vids,from some chinese shooters and one from a slinger named Volp,i have found a different anchoring system,instead of trying to bring the tubes over the fingernails,i tried it their way of over the knuckle and ball of the thumb,much more comforatable for my Old fingers,in the pics that is a string,no one here to take pics but me and the dogs,and they all pointed out that they did not have thumbs,so had to hold tension with teeth,LOL! i think this might work out very well
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, that's how I hold frameless also skarrd
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
> 
> yep,that over the fingernails/crooked fingers is a no go for these old hand bones
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I watched Volp's excellent video. Seems like I just can't keep the tube from rolling off my thumb. May have to try with bands.


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## armando

@stringslap you need to pull tension first before you try to make any fork with your hand. It took me a while to keep the tubes from rolling off????


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## StringSlap

armando said:


> @stringslap you need to pull tension first before you try to make any fork with your hand. It took me a while to keep the tubes from rolling off


I was doing that but it still rolled off. I know I'll get it if I keep at it.


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## BushpotChef

skarrd said:


> so after watching some youtube vids,from some chinese shooters and one from a slinger named Volp,i have found a different anchoring system,instead of trying to bring the tubes over the fingernails,i tried it their way of over the knuckle and ball of the thumb,much more comforatable for my Old fingers,in the pics that is a string,no one here to take pics but me and the dogs,and they all pointed out that they did not have thumbs,so had to hold tension with teeth,LOL! i think this might work out very well


Thats cool looks like you're finding a way to make it work for you, I never could get behind the thumb tip grip you showed. Thats one thing I love about this style, everyone does it a little different. 

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## BushpotChef

StringSlap said:


> armando said:
> 
> 
> 
> @stringslap you need to pull tension first before you try to make any fork with your hand. It took me a while to keep the tubes from rolling off
> 
> 
> 
> I was doing that but it still rolled off. I know I'll get it if I keep at it.
Click to expand...

That's the spirit man, true frameless shooters never quit. I sent a 44. lead ball over my hand yesterday and the feeling of confidence it gives me doing that without fear of a hand strike is unmatched 

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## Covert5

Awesome thread Chef! I too enjoy frameless. I shoot 1632s sleeved up with paracord just to give it a look and to protect the bands a Lil from the elements. I shoot mine with my pointer finger and thumb forming like an "O." I shoot standard draw or full albatross/butter. Here's an old video of mine:


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## Joey Jfive Lujan

Nice thread chef!! .. U know i like shooting frameless .. And i like to do it many ways .. Cheek anchor ... 3/4 butterfly ... Arials ... Instinctive up and down hold .. And also aiming "forks" up and down .. All of it .. But probably my favorite is full butterfly .. I do a arial shot on a bottle full butterfly  




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## skarrd

Covert5 said:


> Awesome thread Chef! I too enjoy frameless. I shoot 1632s sleeved up with paracord just to give it a look and to protect the bands a Lil from the elements. I shoot mine with my pointer finger and thumb forming like an "O." I shoot standard draw or full albatross/butter. Here's an old video of mine:


Want to give a big Thanks to you my friend for showing how you form your*frame* i tried doing the Q finger position [with the BB shooter] and it works Very well for my old arthritic fingers,accuracy improved as well/Thanks For sharing it


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## skarrd

meant *O* lol


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## BushpotChef

Joey Jfive Lujan said:


> Nice thread chef!! .. U know i like shooting frameless .. And i like to do it many ways .. Cheek anchor ... 3/4 butterfly ... Arials ... Instinctive up and down hold .. And also aiming "forks" up and down .. All of it .. But probably my favorite is full butterfly .. I do a arial shot on a bottle full butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk


Thanks for chiming in Joey! One of the forum kings of frameless! Excellent video man show us how its done haha!

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## Devon minnow

About time we had are own thread for the mentality insane. Who in their right mind would fire a projectile at over 200fps just millimetres from their own flesh. Bring it on


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## BushpotChef

Devon minnow said:


> About time we had are own thread for the mentality insane. Who in their right mind would fire a projectile at over 200fps just millimetres from their own flesh. Bring it on


Knuckles..who needs em'. 

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## Tag

Great shooting


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## Covert5

skarrd said:


> Covert5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Awesome thread Chef! I too enjoy frameless. I shoot 1632s sleeved up with paracord just to give it a look and to protect the bands a Lil from the elements. I shoot mine with my pointer finger and thumb forming like an "O." I shoot standard draw or full albatross/butter. Here's an old video of mine:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Want to give a big Thanks to you my friend for showing how you form your*frame* i tried doing the Q finger position [with the BB shooter] and it works Very well for my old arthritic fingers,accuracy improved as well/Thanks For sharing it
Click to expand...

Brotha Skarrd, I'm really glad it worked out for you! Happy sling'n my friend!


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## Joey Jfive Lujan

BushpotChef said:


> Joey Jfive Lujan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice thread chef!! .. U know i like shooting frameless .. And i like to do it many ways .. Cheek anchor ... 3/4 butterfly ... Arials ... Instinctive up and down hold .. And also aiming "forks" up and down .. All of it .. But probably my favorite is full butterfly .. I do a arial shot on a bottle full butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for chiming in Joey! One of the forum kings of frameless! Excellent video man show us how its done haha!
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Haha thanks man !! Nice thread ! .. I will post some more videos here soon if it keeps rolling!! 

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## BushpotChef

Joey Jfive Lujan said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joey Jfive Lujan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice thread chef!! .. U know i like shooting frameless .. And i like to do it many ways .. Cheek anchor ... 3/4 butterfly ... Arials ... Instinctive up and down hold .. And also aiming "forks" up and down .. All of it .. But probably my favorite is full butterfly .. I do a arial shot on a bottle full butterfly
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for chiming in Joey! One of the forum kings of frameless! Excellent video man show us how its done haha!
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Haha thanks man !! Nice thread ! .. I will post some more videos here soon if it keeps rolling!!
> 
> Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks brother, Ill hold you to it!

Also check your inbox haha 

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## robbo

all you frameless shooters remember ancient chinese proberb man who eat with one chopstick never suffer from obesity. lol everbody


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## skarrd

still getting the occasional * fork hit* when using 3/8s steel,but 5/16ths and under are no prob,actually hitting the target pretty consistantly at 20 feet,


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## skarrd

with this setup,green mysterys at 16 inches


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## DragonEyeShooter1

Covert5 said:


> Awesome thread Chef! I too enjoy frameless. I shoot 1632s sleeved up with paracord just to give it a look and to protect the bands a Lil from the elements. I shoot mine with my pointer finger and thumb forming like an "O." I shoot standard draw or full albatross/butter. Here's an old video of mine:


Awesome shooting Covert5!! I love Tyne idea of a paracord cover for the tubes i will definitely have to consider setting my frameless rig up similar since im outside alot,might have to give it a try on a frame too!


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## BushpotChef

skarrd said:


> still getting the occasional * fork hit* when using 3/8s steel,but 5/16ths and under are no prob,actually hitting the target pretty consistantly at 20 feet,


Good for you brother stick with what works 

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## skarrd

yeah,i find that as long as i twist-no *fork* hits-when i lose concentration [or get lazy] Bam! just have to practice when the womans not talking to me LOL


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## Devon minnow

wood pigeon head shot at about 15m using orange dub dub 14" loop. 10mm lead


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Devon minnow said:


> 91003392-1266-4E01-B9C4-0E1EAEBE873E.jpegwood pigeon head shot at about 15m using orange dub dub 14" loop. 10mm lead


Please explain what you have in the middle of your rig, opposite the pouch , and what it's purpose is ?

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## Devon minnow

It thero silver tube it’s just indicates the centre point of the orange dub dub. Have replaced it know with a 1” plastic curtain ring for a better anchor point on my finger


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Devon minnow said:


> It thero silver tube it's just indicates the centre point of the orange dub dub. Have replaced it know with a 1" plastic curtain ring for a better anchor point on my finger


Figured something like that, Tks brother

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## Devon minnow

What are fellow frameless shooter favourite setup. For me it looped 1632 and 8mm steel for target and orange dub dub for hunting. However I find flat band more accurate but have not been able to find a setup????


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Devon minnow said:


> What are fellow frameless shooter favourite setup. For me it looped 1632 and 8mm steel for target and orange dub dub for hunting. However I find flat band more accurate but have not been able to find a setup


Haven't been shooting bareback long enough to have a favorite setup yet, or make any, but my daily go to is a 1632 tube setup, sent to me by Ray ( a.k.a Kawkan ) with bb's and 1/4" steel

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## Island made

Devon minnow said:


> What are fellow frameless shooter favourite setup. For me it looped 1632 and 8mm steel for target and orange dub dub for hunting. However I find flat band more accurate but have not been able to find a setup


For flat bands I use a simple g10 finger ring, but most of the time I use the J5 method. It's genius!! Joey uses 2 pouches, that way you don't have to cut really long bands and you can do you favourite taper. Just tie a pouch to each end of your bands, one for the ammo and one for your finger.


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Island made said:


> Devon minnow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are fellow frameless shooter favourite setup. For me it looped 1632 and 8mm steel for target and orange dub dub for hunting. However I find flat band more accurate but have not been able to find a setup
> 
> 
> 
> For flat bands I use a simple g10 finger ring, but most of the time I use the J5 method. It's genius!! Joey uses 2 pouches, that way you don't have to cut really long bands and you can do you favourite taper. Just tie a pouch to each end of your bands, one for the ammo and one for your finger.
Click to expand...

Just saw that YouTube video of joeys on this Shane, very cool indeed.

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## Hunter-13

Covert5 said:


> Awesome thread Chef! I too enjoy frameless. I shoot 1632s sleeved up with paracord just to give it a look and to protect the bands a Lil from the elements. I shoot mine with my pointer finger and thumb forming like an "O." I shoot standard draw or full albatross/butter. Here's an old video of mine:


Awesome technique and shooting brother! I really like the para-cord cover idea.


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## Joey Jfive Lujan

Island made said:


> Devon minnow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are fellow frameless shooter favourite setup. For me it looped 1632 and 8mm steel for target and orange dub dub for hunting. However I find flat band more accurate but have not been able to find a setup
> 
> 
> 
> For flat bands I use a simple g10 finger ring, but most of the time I use the J5 method. It's genius!! Joey uses 2 pouches, that way you don't have to cut really long bands and you can do you favourite taper. Just tie a pouch to each end of your bands, one for the ammo and one for your finger.
Click to expand...



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## Joey Jfive Lujan

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> Island made said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Devon minnow said:
> 
> 
> 
> What are fellow frameless shooter favourite setup. For me it looped 1632 and 8mm steel for target and orange dub dub for hunting. However I find flat band more accurate but have not been able to find a setup
> 
> 
> 
> For flat bands I use a simple g10 finger ring, but most of the time I use the J5 method. It's genius!! Joey uses 2 pouches, that way you don't have to cut really long bands and you can do you favourite taper. Just tie a pouch to each end of your bands, one for the ammo and one for your finger.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Just saw that YouTube video of joeys on this Shane, very cool indeed.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...



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## KawKan

Made a video of myself shooting frameless.

Found I have a bit of cant - with my finger farther forward than my thumb.






Found this to be really helpful for figuring out stuff like this.

Enjoy!


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## Catapults and Carving

Hello everyone! Only just seen this thread today so thought I would jump on board lol 2040 gzk tubes, here's the outcome!


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## derspunk

Hello, everybody,
i've been trying to find an optimal setup for bbs (0.177mm) as frameless for quite some time now.
Currently I have an pullout of about 80cm.
Even at 1632 (18cm long with microfiber pouch) I feel that the tubes are too strong and i get hard handslaps.
Any tips for me?

Thanks and greetings


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## KawKan

I've had good luck shooting light ammo using 2mm solid latex pouch tying material.

Like this: https://www.dankung.com/Gcontent/5-meters-small-rubber-solid-band-2mm-diameter_2184?position=17&list=A-YldPw3b-DgPxyf3JXtq3pbPaNbzITLuP7avwjhJ3I

The #117b file bands also work well. One cut and attach a pouch. https://www.amazon.com/Alliance-27405-Advantage-Contains-Approx/dp/B00006IBRX/ref=sr_1_3?crid=IN12ROPXMCH4&dchild=1&keywords=117b+rubber+bands&qid=1595421752&sprefix=%23117b+%2Caps%2C202&sr=8-3

And #64 office rubber bands also work well if you cut two and attach two pouches.









I discuss some of this here: 




Good luck, and good shooting!



derspunk said:


> Hello, everybody,
> i've been trying to find an optimal setup for bbs (0.177mm) as frameless for quite some time now.
> Currently I have an pullout of about 80cm.
> Even at 1632 (18cm long with microfiber pouch) I feel that the tubes are too strong and i get hard handslaps.
> Any tips for me?
> 
> Thanks and greetings


----------



## KawKan

Oh, I forgot to mention, that if you are cutting your own flatbands, you might try a narrow strip (5-6mm) about 40cm long.


----------



## skarrd

moving up from 1/4 inch steel to 3/8s clay,no *fork*hits yet,and starting to fall into the muscle memory aspect of the Dark Art.the only thing about Frameless is other than the paracord protector,there is no decorative aspect ,but it does appeal to a simpler more primal side of shooting.


----------



## BushpotChef

Making a new sleeved 2040 rig and some 12mm clays tonight. Also going after rabbits & doves tomorrow with 8mm steel. It's been 3 weeks since I got a chance to hunt so it should be fun 

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

not ready to try hunting,frameless.yetbut hopefully soon as the pecan tree has a Bunch of podlings and the squirells will be out and about


----------



## BushpotChef

skarrd said:


> not ready to try hunting,frameless.yetbut hopefully soon as the pecan tree has a Bunch of podlings and the squirells will be out and about


You can do it boss!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Stankard757

Hey can someone post a pic of a set up sleeved interested in doing it with my new setup.


----------



## BushpotChef

Stankard757 said:


> Hey can someone post a pic of a set up sleeved interested in doing it with my new setup.


Here ya go mt friend, sleeved black 1632:
















Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Stankard757

BushpotChef said:


> Stankard757 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey can someone post a pic of a set up sleeved interested in doing it with my new setup.
> 
> 
> 
> Here ya go mt friend, sleeved black 1632:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Nice Thanks. Do you melt the ends or just leave them?


----------



## BushpotChef

I melt em and flare em before I run my tubing through

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## SLING-N-SHOT

BushpotChef said:


> I melt em and flare em before I run my tubing through
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


What do you use to flare them ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Stankard757

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> I melt em and flare em before I run my tubing through
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


What do you use to flare them ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/quote


----------



## Stankard757

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> I melt em and flare em before I run my tubing through
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> What do you use to flare them ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I've always used a pen or pencil. Lightly push the cord end on to it perfect hole and flare.


----------



## BushpotChef

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> I melt em and flare em before I run my tubing through
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> What do you use to flare them ?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Just tap it lightly with a damp finger tip, rotate it as you bring it slowly near the flame to slowly melt it rather than burn it

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## BushpotChef

Check this tasty setup (from Thailand):









Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

interesting concept,hows it shoot?


----------



## BushpotChef

skarrd said:


> interesting concept,hows it shoot?


Frankly it's a game changer for me, the rigidity of the paracord around my frame hand feels really solid. Will be making a few more -

Anyone interested in a tutorial lol?

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## SLING-N-SHOT

BushpotChef said:


> skarrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> interesting concept,hows it shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly it's a game changer for me, the rigidity of the paracord around my frame hand feels really solid. Will be making a few more -
> 
> Anyone interested in a tutorial lol?
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Yes, tutorial please Sir.....input, neeeed input, lol

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## BushpotChef

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skarrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> interesting concept,hows it shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly it's a game changer for me, the rigidity of the paracord around my frame hand feels really solid. Will be making a few more -
> 
> Anyone interested in a tutorial lol?
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yes, tutorial please Sir.....input, neeeed input, lol
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I'm on it!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## robbo

BushpotChef said:


> skarrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> interesting concept,hows it shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly it's a game changer for me, the rigidity of the paracord around my frame hand feels really solid. Will be making a few more -
> 
> Anyone interested in a tutorial lol?
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

yes we need help from a jedi master to go to the dark side.


----------



## BushpotChef

robbo said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skarrd said:
> 
> 
> 
> interesting concept,hows it shoot?
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly it's a game changer for me, the rigidity of the paracord around my frame hand feels really solid. Will be making a few more -
> 
> Anyone interested in a tutorial lol?
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> yes we need help from a jedi master to go to the dark side.
Click to expand...

"There is no frame" 

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## BushpotChef

Voila:






Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

very cool! this is now on my list of trys! love the comment *tighter than a nuns corset*.Thanks Brother!


----------



## BushpotChef

skarrd said:


> very cool! this is now on my list of trys! love the comment *tighter than a nuns corset*.Thanks Brother!


Hahaha thanks man glad you enjoyed it!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Xring11

BushpotChef said:


> Voila:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


Excellent! Thanks for sharing! 

Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk


----------



## BushpotChef

Xring11 said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> Voila:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Excellent! Thanks for sharing!
> 
> Sent from my Phone 2 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

No worries thanks for watching!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Covert5

Great tutorial! Sling-On!


----------



## BushpotChef

Covert5 said:


> Great tutorial! Sling-On!


Thanks brother shoot straight and shoot often!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Stankard757

Nice video. Already started.


----------



## BushpotChef

Stankard757 said:


> Nice video. Already started.


Good stuff man let us know how you get on 

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

nursing a *fork hit* i dont know what it is about the 3/8s steels,i dont have a problem with 3/8s clays or any of the smaller steels 5/16,1/4,or BBs,but 3/8s steels i always end up with at least one [or in this case 3] fork hits and only with the green 1842s,the 1632s no fork hits even with 1/2 in,gonna try some different pouches,but i am open to any info thats out there,i shoot from an ear anchor,Thanks


----------



## BushpotChef

skarrd said:


> nursing a *fork hit* i dont know what it is about the 3/8s steels,i dont have a problem with 3/8s clays or any of the smaller steels 5/16,1/4,or BBs,but 3/8s steels i always end up with at least one [or in this case 3] fork hits and only with the green 1842s,the 1632s no fork hits even with 1/2 in,gonna try some different pouches,but i am open to any info thats out there,i shoot from an ear anchor,Thanks


I think the key with that medium steel 3/8" or in that ballpark is a set that snaps lightning fast. I know that may seem pretty obvious but hear me out:

Ever noticed when you've got a nicely trimmed set that's working well with your 3/8" steel, the pouch seems to follow all the way through and lightly slap the back of your forearm? I believe this is the mark of a properly set up rig. What I think it comes down to is a sluggish set with too much tube or pouch, or its otherwise not retracting fast enough. I would guess the tubes are roughly coiling or buckling and the pouch is thus not flowing cleanly between the knuckles - or forks lol.

In short, create a set that only stretches to exactly as far as a you need and use as little pouch as possible while still getting a solid pinch. I think you'll find 2040 tubing with a standard SimpleShot pouch works wonders. When I want to shoot ammo from 3/8" up to 5/8 marbles frameless - that's my preferred setup.

Hope this helps boss happy shooting!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

you may be on it,i used to use 2040s and only had a couple hits,,will try it out,i still have some 2040 in the fridge  Thanks again


----------



## BushpotChef

*100th post on this thread!*

I think you guys are going to like this:

My 'Frameless Plinker's Pack'! It contains:

- x1 1632 amber loop w/ micro fibre pouch
- x1 2040 black loop w/ BPC leather pouch
- x13 1/2" clay balls
- x25 1/4" steel (on magnetic belt clip)
- x1 3/4" silicone slap spinner
- x1 30" paracord (for hanging spinner)

I love this little pack, very tidy and carries just enough to set up and plink just about anywhere. This one is a gift for a fellow frameless shooter who also happens to be a member.. 

Thoughts & comments always appreciated!

-BPC





































Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

Finally got the trick,a little *bump* to the pouch-no fork/frame hits with 3/8s steels-over 150 shots,release is getting better as well,more hits per shots


----------



## skarrd

this was from the other day,red 1745s,and green 1842s,14 inch length[?] 3/8s steels,very 1st frameless can cut


----------



## Stankard757

skarrd said:


> Finally got the trick,a little *bump* to the pouch-no fork/frame hits with 3/8s steels-over 150 shots,release is getting better as well,more hits per shots


Nice! Congrats


----------



## Stankard757

skarrd said:


> this was from the other day,red 1745s,and green 1842s,14 inch length[?] 3/8s steels,very 1st frameless can cut


Nice shootin


----------



## skarrd

Thanks! its been a Long time coming,but the light finally came on


----------



## Covert5

skarrd said:


> this was from the other day,red 1745s,and green 1842s,14 inch length[?] 3/8s steels,very 1st frameless can cut


Yeah! Nice kills brotha!


----------



## vince4242

So after reading this post I am inspired to try...I already had a titanium ring from slingshooting.com and thought I would give it a try. I have 1632 that will be here tomorrow to be used with 8mm... but I just couldn't wait. For now I am using very thin bands that I use for tying my bands on to my slingshots at 12" long (33" draw length) I wanted to be sure I wasn't going to hit a finger too hard. I am shooting dollar store necklace beads that I painted orange, they are great for indoor area.

It wasn't too hard to figure out the basics after all the videos I watched. I find my biggest problem is getting the "fork" gap right on, but I am sure I will get muscle memory over time. I was able to be pretty on target and a few bulls eye hits but I think I just need more time to get the gap right.

Very excited to make a real frameless setup tomorrow!!

Cheers


----------



## vince4242

Lets put our votes in to get this topic "Pinned" since it is the only real definitive guide and topic on frameless. Not sure who decides but it should be right up front in my opinion.

Cheers


----------



## BushpotChef

vince4242 said:


> Lets put our votes in to get this topic "Pinned" since it is the only real definitive guide and topic on frameless. Not sure who decides but it should be right up front in my opinion.
> 
> Cheers


Thank you my friend I appreciate that 

I'm about to go on a one-week frameless challenge. For anyone who wants to join me I'll be shooting a 2040 black Dankung loop and the new SniperSling yellow 0.6mm in 3/4" straight cuts on a frameless ring.

Happy blasting!









Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Something else to try! Love the videos and really appreciate all who shared them, great to have so many willing to share collective experience. Also amazed at how many details, diverse methods, tangents and rabbit holes there are in something as simple as using elastic to propel and object.


----------



## BushpotChef

Busting a 10m bottle cap, this guy did a little dance first lol  :






Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## Stankard757

BushpotChef said:


> Busting a 10m bottle cap, this guy did a little dance first lol  :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


Nice shootin

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


----------



## BushpotChef

Stankard757 said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> Busting a 10m bottle cap, this guy did a little dance first lol  :
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shootin
> 
> Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Thanks pal 

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## High Desert Flipper

BushpotChef said:


> StringSlap said:
> 
> 
> 
> I gotta give this a try! Hoping people will post some fresh pics or vids on hand positions and techniques.
> 
> Does the ring finger style have any benefits over a solo band/tube? I've been leaning towards trying the ring finger first. I had one of the clamp style ones from GZK but I gave it away in a trade. Trader's remorse!
> 
> 
> 
> There's a guy who goes by Volp on YouTube he's got some great videos and a few instructions on his technique, hes a flatband guy most of the time. Thats something to consider as well flats wrap around the finger and hold position easier than tubes.
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Those Youtube videos from Volp are amazing! Glad you shared that info. I may be risking some finger damage soon.


----------



## SJAaz

I started with 117b office bands and 6mm ammo, but I use two pouches and find that it helps me center everything up. J5 was using that system when I started, don't know if he still does.


----------



## BushpotChef

SJAaz said:


> I started with 117b office bands and 6mm ammo, but I use two pouches and find that it helps me center everything up. J5 was using that system when I started, don't know if he still does.


The old JD2P method haha yeah it's a great one, I think he uses it when hes more serious like hunting for example but dont quote me

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## SJAaz

StringSlap said:


> armando said:
> 
> 
> 
> @stringslap you need to pull tension first before you try to make any fork with your hand. It took me a while to keep the tubes from rolling off
> 
> 
> 
> I was doing that but it still rolled off. I know I'll get it if I keep at it.
Click to expand...

Stringslap. brother from another mother...try pulling the whole rig straight up vertically and then get you finger and thumb where you want them. You probs have tough skin on your hands unlike an old guy that just sits around. But.. I still prefer bands, they just line up better for me.


----------



## BushpotChef

I'm makin that video tonight lol, it'll be in a new thread (In case its deemed worthy of a Pin) for those interested!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

SJAaz said:


> I started with 117b office bands and 6mm ammo, but I use two pouches and find that it helps me center everything up. J5 was using that system when I started, don't know if he still does.


thats how i do it with flats,tubes just one long piece


----------



## skarrd

BushpotChef said:


> I'm makin that video tonight lol, it'll be in a new thread (In case its deemed worthy of a Pin) for those interested!
> 
> Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


i'll be lookin for it


----------



## DragonEyeShooter1

I will be completely honest i came here for a cookie lol aside from learning to shoot frameless as accurate or near-to as my favorite frames this was probably the hardest thing I've done slingshot related i wanna say kudos to Covert5 for the idea and all you guys got helping me learn but getting this butterfly loop through this 22" piece of paracord was ridiculously hard, would you guys have any suggestions for making this easier in the future?


----------



## skarrd

you can run a piece of weedeater string thru and attach the tube to it with small piece of tape and slowly pull it thru,i beleive youtubes shots with hunter has the video,its either him or can vandal


----------



## Covert5

Dragoneyeshooter1! Awesome job on that butterfly frameless rig! Hunter made an awesome video hack which makes it so much easier. No more cramping fingers! Lol You can also get some paracord that's a little thicker called 650 paracord or battlecord from paracord galaxy. Those are a little thicker for tubes to fit more easily.

Hope this helps! Sling-On!

Here's the video by Hunter:


----------



## DragonEyeShooter1

Sweet!! Thank you guys!! I'll definitely be looking into some thicker cord this is my new favorite frameless rig aside frome a wooded aling ring i made for flats, the paracord makes the tubes so much more xomfy to hold and wear and i even feel like it helps with the tube placement on my finger forks, frameless has brough back that joy of shooting my frineds in middle school with folded up paper hornets lol now though i prefer real ammo and less friendly targets haha


----------



## BushpotChef

DragonEyeShooter1 said:


> Sweet!! Thank you guys!! I'll definitely be looking into some thicker cord this is my new favorite frameless rig aside frome a wooded aling ring i made for flats, the paracord makes the tubes so much more xomfy to hold and wear and i even feel like it helps with the tube placement on my finger forks, frameless has brough back that joy of shooting my frineds in middle school with folded up paper hornets lol now though i prefer real ammo and less friendly targets haha


Paper hornets? I love that name for them!

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## DragonEyeShooter1

Lol we use to get vicious with those things, instead of a ball we'd fold the paper as much and as small as possible until you get a stiff little rectangle then one last fold hamburger style so its like a stiff "V"with no pouch you just put the middle of the hornet on the rubber band pinch it by the wings take aim and let her rip lol just like frameless i was the kid that had to weaponize everything so i would poke paperclips and tacks through the middle to give them a nice "stinger" like i said we were vicious kids haha


----------



## BushpotChef

Sent from my LM-X210APM using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

Covert5 said:


> Dragoneyeshooter1! Awesome job on that butterfly frameless rig! Hunter made an awesome video hack which makes it so much easier. No more cramping fingers! Lol You can also get some paracord that's a little thicker called 650 paracord or battlecord from paracord galaxy. Those are a little thicker for tubes to fit more easily.
> 
> Hope this helps! Sling-On!
> 
> Here's the video by Hunter:


just ordered some 1/4 in and 5/16s in from paracord planet,for this very purpose,lol


----------



## skarrd

found some 850 paracord at paracord planet,that 2040 slides into easily[,havent checked out paracord galaxy yet] tieing it up now,for when the sun comes up,lol


----------



## SLING-N-SHOT

Another good source is Bored Paracord Steven.

https://www.boredparacord.com/

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Covert5

Skarrd and Sling-N-Shot, thanks for letting us know about those paracord vendors! I'll be checking them out for sure to see what selections they have!


----------



## High Desert Flipper

skarrd said:


> Covert5 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dragoneyeshooter1! Awesome job on that butterfly frameless rig! Hunter made an awesome video hack which makes it so much easier. No more cramping fingers! Lol You can also get some paracord that's a little thicker called 650 paracord or battlecord from paracord galaxy. Those are a little thicker for tubes to fit more easily.
> 
> Hope this helps! Sling-On!
> 
> Here's the video by Hunter:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> just ordered some 1/4 in and 5/16s in from paracord planet,for this very purpose,lol
Click to expand...

Awesome! Will have to put this on my to do list! Thanks for sharing that video!


----------



## skarrd

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> Another good source is Bored Paracord Steven.
> 
> https://www.boredparacord.com/
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Cool! Thanks


----------



## skarrd

i have also noticed when paracording the tubes the paracord *shrinks*,by that i mean i cut a 2o inch tube and a 20 inch peice of para,and the para loses about 4-5 inches in length,so you end up with a bunch of tube hanging out of the ends,anyone else notice this?


----------



## Stankard757

skarrd said:


> i have also noticed when paracording the tubes the paracord *shrinks*,by that i mean i cut a 2o inch tube and a 20 inch peice of para,and the para loses about 4-5 inches in length,so you end up with a bunch of tube hanging out of the ends,anyone else notice this?


Its because of how it's made or weaved. Think of it like a Japanese finger trap. With no tension on the ends it wants to come back on it self. Hold one end run your finger down the length it will go back to normal length. I always cut mine an inch or two long so the relaxed length is the correct length.

Sent from my LG-TP260 using Tapatalk


----------



## skarrd

that is what i did also,the 2nd time,lol


----------



## Covert5

Yeah I noticed that too! I agree with Stankard757! Skarrd maybe an inch or two longer. Lol


----------



## skarrd

okay,so with this 850 para, i went 4 inches longer and it cmae out just about right 2 inches free on either side of pouch


----------



## skarrd

pics of various paracords for wraps;

these are the 1/4 in and 5/16s in from paracord planet 1842 and 1745 both fit,the 1745 is a bit of struggle at the end.

and the 1745 in the 1/4 in,the 5/16s is Huge

and finally the 3 different sizes 1.4,850,and 550 paracords


----------



## vince4242

Been working on my technique for a couple of weeks now and starting to get better. I am using 1632 tubing and it kept rolling around across my knuckles. So I did a full stretch with my anchor point and had my partner mark the tubes where they crossed my knuckle and then I slice them down the middle so I had two halves so they weren't round and that one small section. Work great so they didn't roll and starting to get the feel of it. Hit a 50 mm spinner 3 times in a row today without hitting my finger wants!

Practice practice practice I enjoy the process

Cheers


----------



## skarrd

ok,so after 25 shots each,i have decided that,at least for me,1745 is Not for me,its the only bandset i get fork hits from,even with a *bump*,the 1842,2040,1632,all work awesome though.


----------



## DragonEyeShooter1

So when you guys cover your rigs with the para ideally do you want the para as close as possible to the pouch or do you want some of the elastic peaking out? I've noticed on my rig after a couple shots the para wants to bunch up and roll in on itself, i assume the tubing is catching the edge of the para on the retraction when i shoot, maybe its cuz I'm running full butters or my form is off?


----------



## skarrd

I myself prefer 1-2 inches of tube on each side sticking out,i dont have any problems with bunching up or rolling,but i dont shoot butterfly,however there are a few who do on here,and i'm sure they can answer that one,lol


----------



## Devon minnow

[attachment=305848:692CADA1-B039-400D-AC72-E83EB0ED33F8.jpeg

3050 10mm lead. Who needs a frame????


----------



## Covert5

There is no frame. - Neo from The Matrix


----------



## vince4242

That is badass Devin... Very nice!


----------



## skarrd

good shootin buddy!


----------



## armando

Whats 3050 like compared to 2050?


----------



## Devon minnow

armando said:


> Whats 3050 like compared to 2050?


My personal view is that 3050 is better. I shoot 8mms steel up to 10mm lead both bareback and with a frame and no hand slap. No need to loop, lighter draw weight and smoother.


----------



## cavedweller

Try using some 3.5mm solid round band in a single loop. In my experience it's pretty much like 1842 tube in performance and generally lasts longer.


----------



## cga2611

Devon, please describe the setup you used to take the hare.


----------



## Devon minnow

cga2611 said:


> Devon, please describe the setup you used to take the hare.


About 13" single loop of 3050, 1" stainless steel ring which sit on 3rd figure and one of though 9.5mm ball locating pouch. Ammo 10mm lead FPS 190-200.


----------



## Devon minnow

cga2611 said:


> Devon, please describe the setup you used to take the hare.










Shot at 30m dancing 2040/1632 cocktail tube with light weight pouch and 8mm steel


----------



## Joey Jfive Lujan

a little more frameless full butterfly 

Sent from my LM-Q720 using Tapatalk


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## THWACK!

"Frameless" ? Braless, yes, frameless no.

THWACK!


----------



## THWACK!

W



Devon minnow said:


> 692CADA1-B039-400D-AC72-E83EB0ED33F8.jpeg[attachment=305848:692CADA1-B039-400D-AC72-E83EB0ED33F8.jpeg
> 
> 3050 10mm lead. Who needs a frame
> 
> [/QUOTE]
> 
> Was this hare stickin' out yer nose?
> 
> Kidding, only kidding (it's my STYLE, I can't help it!)
> 
> THWACK!


----------



## Tag

Hey Thwack is back I kinda miss your ole sarcastic self


----------



## Joey Jfive Lujan

Frameless arrows are fun! 




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## Valery

I tried it and I liked it! Little by little it starts to work out.


----------



## Valery

Several times I tried unsuccessfully to put a shell on the tube using various methods. And today everything worked out! All that was needed was a round diamond file. The tube is held very firmly on it. Both 1632 and 2040 passed effortlessly.


----------



## Covert5

Yeah!!! Congratulations! Happy shoot'n!


----------



## Devon minnow

Been reacquainting myself with an old friend, been using 3050 for a few months and place an order for 9.5mm with Balls of Steel(great service). But the weather has take a turn for the worst, luck if it’s been above freezing. So been using orange dub dub, I had forgot how well it sends 9.5mm steel. So at the minute it’s my go to setup for 9.5 mm steel and also 10mm lead. Also been trying 5070 for .44cal leads and .51cal leads early days but been impressed


----------



## Devon minnow




----------



## Reed Lukens

I made a 2040 set a month or so back with SureShot Pouches, one was a Rockstar and the other was a #73 SuperPouch. I've shot everything from 1/4" up to 1" rocks out of it and honestly, it just didn't have enough power to throw the rocks properly. So the other day, I pulled off the Rockstar and put on a little white pouch that works just fine with bb's on up to small rocks on the #73 pouch side. I like the double pouch set up and I simply put my pinky completely into the lower pouch for support- while bringing the tubes up the palm of my hand, holding it tight with my next 2 fingers up my palm. (Basically, I'm making a fist around the tubes.) Or I can wrap the tubes around my ring finger, etc... if I want more power or shorter bands. My frame is made up at the base of my thumb nail and between the 2 knuckles of my index finger. I watched the videos again tonight and I haven't seen anyone else using this method, so...









This one is 13" overall which allows me to shoot either 3/4 butterfly or just choke up on the bands with my 3 free fingers for any other anchor point.









Today, I made these other 2 to give me a full range of options. The orange is 1632, the green is the 2040 and the amber is 3050. I figured that these would do for a start and the 3050 has put the Rockstar back in action. For me, I'm shooting out in the desert right now with no catch box until our house closes, so I mostly shoot rocks and clay, but I do have a wide assortment of ammo with me at all times.









The orange is for bb's up to 1/4" in the SuperSure Magnetic bb pouch and then just bb's fit in the other side. I put the black Chinese pouch on to try out the Hai Style of shooting... Hopefully not through my thumb :headbang:

I didn't have time tonight to put them all through their paces but the Rockstar works just fine with the 3050  
Has anyone tried shooting double tubes or double bands? I'm thinking that I could run doubles through 1/4" paracord easy enough...


----------



## skarrd

double tubes is an interesting thought,definatly be some Power there.


----------



## Covert5

Reed, you got a nice variety right there!


----------



## Devon minnow

One of my setup is double 1632 shooting 8mm steel???? . It my favourite target setup for the summer but performance drops of to much in the colder months


----------



## Adam2

I hit my hand pretty good shooting frameless. I still shot after the fact. Really need to figure out how to hold the bands the proper way next time around though
Even when I look at lots of videos I seem to either get confused or the ergonomics of my hand just don't work for it

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----------



## skarrd

its a tricky set up,and a couple different finger/fork variations,but it is an interesting form and very satisfying once you figure out what works for you,for 3/8s and smaller i shoot closed fingers/over the knuckles [pfs?] for larger ammo and clays i shoot with fingers outstretched [TTF?] only advice -start small,in case of fork hits,then as you get more comforatable with it move up.


----------



## Covert5

Adam2 said:


> I hit my hand pretty good shooting frameless. I still shot after the fact. Really need to figure out how to hold the bands the proper way next time around though
> Even when I look at lots of videos I seem to either get confused or the ergonomics of my hand just don't work for it
> Sent from my SM-G965W using Tapatalk


Practice with rolled up foil first just to get the mechanics down. Once you are confident and get that to clear you can move up to rubber, then, clay, then steel.

It's quite satisfying once you get the hang of it.

You can do it! It's just like this:






Welcome to the program and Sling-On!


----------



## TaskForceK

I haven't used a slingshot in 35 years and, from what I've learned on these forums, I wasn't even doing it right back then. I watched a video on frameless shooting and got interested: my wife, whenever I develop an interest in something, gets on the web and starts ordering me stuff. Sounds great, I know, but her method is somewhat devious: she waits until I'm good enough at something to show her the basics, then she (very rapidly) gets better than me.

Anyway, about a week ago, I started fooling around with frameless shooting a bit, shooting BB's and 3/8 clay balls in the back yard. I had a "frame hit" on the tip of my finger (Oh, man! that really lets you know it happened, doesn't it?) and switched my grip a bit: I've got big, dumb, chubby fingers (they've got all the fat and brains of a bratwurst). Rather than wrap the loop around my ring and pinkie, I've been using my wrist as an anchor and have been opening my finger and thumb fully with the band running over the tips. It seems to be working out for me.

I've been alternating between 1632 and a variety of flat bands and have been shooting sideways. I've just about got my windage dialed in but my elevation needs a little work. I often hit high but hit more often than not. The brand new callous I'm developing seems to indicate that I'm holding my pouch correctly and not getting the finger bump.

So, (very) long story short, thanks for all the information and shared experience. It's been helpful.

Also, has anybody ever noticed that wildlife only appears downrange when you're trying to target shoot? Every time, five minutes after I start getting into the groove, the backyard starts looking like a menagerie. Yesterday, I had squirrels, starling, dove, and I think a cute little raccoon popped up and gave me the finger. Somehow they know that the only thing I'll kill without eating is yard gnomes.


----------



## KawKan

TaskForceK said:


> I haven't used a slingshot in 35 years and, from what I've learned on these forums, I wasn't even doing it right back then. I watched a video on frameless shooting and got interested: my wife, whenever I develop an interest in something, gets on the web and starts ordering me stuff. Sounds great, I know, but her method is somewhat devious: she waits until I'm good enough at something to show her the basics, then she (very rapidly) gets better than me.
> 
> Anyway, about a week ago, I started fooling around with frameless shooting a bit, shooting BB's and 3/8 clay balls in the back yard. I had a "frame hit" on the tip of my finger (Oh, man! that really lets you know it happened, doesn't it?) and switched my grip a bit: I've got big, dumb, chubby fingers (they've got all the fat and brains of a bratwurst). Rather than wrap the loop around my ring and pinkie, I've been using my wrist as an anchor and have been opening my finger and thumb fully with the band running over the tips. It seems to be working out for me.
> 
> I've been alternating between 1632 and a variety of flat bands and have been shooting sideways. I've just about got my windage dialed in but my elevation needs a little work. I often hit high but hit more often than not. The brand new callous I'm developing seems to indicate that I'm holding my pouch correctly and not getting the finger bump.
> 
> So, (very) long story short, thanks for all the information and shared experience. It's been helpful.
> 
> Also, has anybody ever noticed that wildlife only appears downrange when you're trying to target shoot? Every time, five minutes after I start getting into the groove, the backyard starts looking like a menagerie. Yesterday, I had squirrels, starling, dove, and I think a cute little raccoon popped up and gave me the finger. Somehow they know that the only thing I'll kill without eating is yard gnomes.


Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like you are getting things sorted out.

My frameless reference point is also lower than my top. That works fine, as long as it's repeatable!


----------



## vince4242

Welcome to The Forum, you're starting off right at the deep end with a frameless shooting. Sounds like you're doing a great job so far!

Cheers


----------



## Covert5

Welcome! Whats great about this sport is theres an infinite way to hit the target. The journey to finding your way is the best one of all. Happy sling'n and Sling-On!


----------



## SLING-N-SHOT

Welcome to the forum and good luck with bareback / frameless

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skarrd

Ahh,another practitioner of the mystic arts of frameless shooting,lol. Welcome aboard!


----------



## TaskForceK

TaskForceK said:


> I haven't used a slingshot in 35 years and, from what I've learned on these forums, I wasn't even doing it right back then. I watched a video on frameless shooting and got interested: my wife, whenever I develop an interest in something, gets on the web and starts ordering me stuff. Sounds great, I know, but her method is somewhat devious: she waits until I'm good enough at something to show her the basics, then she (very rapidly) gets better than me.
> 
> Anyway, about a week ago, I started fooling around with frameless shooting a bit, shooting BB's and 3/8 clay balls in the back yard. I had a "frame hit" on the tip of my finger (Oh, man! that really lets you know it happened, doesn't it?) and switched my grip a bit: I've got big, dumb, chubby fingers (they've got all the fat and brains of a bratwurst). Rather than wrap the loop around my ring and pinkie, I've been using my wrist as an anchor and have been opening my finger and thumb fully with the band running over the tips. It seems to be working out for me.
> 
> I've been alternating between 1632 and a variety of flat bands and have been shooting sideways. I've just about got my windage dialed in but my elevation needs a little work. I often hit high but hit more often than not. The brand new callous I'm developing seems to indicate that I'm holding my pouch correctly and not getting the finger bump.
> 
> So, (very) long story short, thanks for all the information and shared experience. It's been helpful.
> 
> Also, has anybody ever noticed that wildlife only appears downrange when you're trying to target shoot? Every time, five minutes after I start getting into the groove, the backyard starts looking like a menagerie. Yesterday, I had squirrels, starling, dove, and I think a cute little raccoon popped up and gave me the finger. Somehow they know that the only thing I'll kill without eating is yard gnomes.


Holy Moly, y'all know how to make a guy feel welcome. I've been lurking around here for a bit, so most of you are like legends to me.

First, a clarification: I do not eat bratwurst made of brains (as far as I know).

Another clarification: I don't refuse to eat yard gnomes for moral or dietary reasons. I just haven't found a recipe I like.

Yet another clarification: Yes, I jumped into frameless shooting first because it matches my general, "if you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball" philosophy.

I like the idea of frameless shooting because it means I can always have a slingshot on my person to practice with (without looking like Dennis the Menace). If there were a way to go even more minimalistic with it, I'd do it. I think the skills transfer. I got a "big boy" slingshot, too: an Ocularis, and shooting that thing is a breeze (comparatively).

I know that the key to accuracy is practice, but any hints or fast tracks to getting out to 20 and 30 yards are welcome (no, I won't take steroids).

Oh, yeah! Almost forgot. I made my first frameless with 550 cord and 1632. It is awful. I made it too short. If I pull it to full extension, it looks thin as dental floss and when I wore it on my wrist, my hand went numb. Oh, well...I'm sure the fiftieth one I make will be better.

Thanks again.


----------



## TaskForceK

So...a few bits of strangeness occurred while I was practicing yesterday.

I was shooting BB's, using a 1632 frameless rig, and I missed...somehow the BB landed softly on top of my head. It wasn't a ricochet. Has anybody else had this happen?

Then, on the next shot, I DID have a ricochet which hit me, gently, in my gentleman's region. Why did nobody warn me that this was a possibility? The last thing a man my age wants to do is explain, to an ER nurse, how I shot myself in the plums with a slingshot.

Then...IT FREAKING SNOWED...in Cincinnati...in APRIL.

Also, I had my very first broken band. Is there a Merit Badge for that?


----------



## skarrd

i have had shots *disappear* out of the pouch while shooting,loaded it,felt the shot in the pouch,release and nothing,poof just not there any more.Gremlins i think,,,,,


----------



## skarrd

heres a pic of a couple of the newest *frameless* shooters i'm using,a short tubed 2040 with 3/8s steels and a Finger shooter,copied from an old template[?] that was posted here back in 2011,by*tom* for shooting 1/4 inch steels


----------



## SLING-N-SHOT

skarrd said:


> i have had shots *disappear* out of the pouch while shooting,loaded it,felt the shot in the pouch,release and nothing,poof just not there any more.Gremlins i think,,,,,


Naw Steven, you're Just firing blanks is all brother, lol 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Devon minnow

Skarrd can you give more details I.e dimensions of the finger shooter please


----------



## ukj

Also @MR Skarrd please.
Any chance of a photo how to use finger framless
system?
And specs as also asked.
Already drew blood learning Full Butterfly, framless
looks way more dangerous to learn due to fork hits, that is.
thx
ukj


----------



## skarrd

dimensions vary according to your finger size but the basics are soft plyable leather,i inch wide x 4 1/2 inches long,bottom holes are 2 1/4 inches then 1/2 inch up for second and third holes,centered at 3/4 inches,the flap over the top finger should just cover the the inside portion-about 1 to 1 1/4 inches past the last set of holes.i shoot upright from a cheek anchor,just under my eye.very slight tweak on the twist,fairly accurate,not real powerful. Hope this helps


----------



## skarrd

P.S. i make my lower portion somewhat longer to cover the whole anchor finger


----------



## skarrd

Dang computer,,,,,lol


----------



## Devon minnow

Cheer Skarrd????


----------



## High Desert Flipper

skarrd said:


> dimensions vary according to your finger size but the basics are soft plyable leather,i inch wide x 4 1/2 inches long,bottom holes are 2 1/4 inches then 1/2 inch up for second and third holes,centered at 3/4 inches,the flap over the top finger should just cover the the inside portion-about 1 to 1 1/4 inches past the last set of holes.i shoot upright from a cheek anchor,just under my eye.very slight tweak on the twist,fairly accurate,not real powerful. Hope this helps


Wow! That looks like an over the finger PFS minus the F! And it looks cool enough that I may have to have a go at it. At least for a try. Thanks for sharing the pics!


----------



## skarrd

it is an easy project.and a lot of fun to shoot. it could probably be made more powerful with different tubes,havent gone there,,,,yet.for now its back to the *stick*shooters and PFS


----------



## TaskForceK

TaskForceK said:


> So...a few bits of strangeness occurred while I was practicing yesterday.
> 
> I was shooting BB's, using a 1632 frameless rig, and I missed...somehow the BB landed softly on top of my head. It wasn't a ricochet. Has anybody else had this happen?
> 
> Then, on the next shot, I DID have a ricochet which hit me, gently, in my gentleman's region. Why did nobody warn me that this was a possibility? The last thing a man my age wants to do is explain, to an ER nurse, how I shot myself in the plums with a slingshot.
> 
> Then...IT FREAKING SNOWED...in Cincinnati...in APRIL.
> 
> Also, I had my very first broken band. Is there a Merit Badge for that?


So... I figured out the "missing BB". I have a fairly strong pinch grip and squeezed the BB through the hole in the pouch without realizing it. How it ended up on top of my head is...well...perhaps Fred and Velma can explain it. I can't.


----------



## skarrd

a 2040 rig and a 1745 rig with 5/16s and 3/8s steels a couple days ago


----------



## TaskForceK

I've been playing a game with myself (don't read anything into that) when I practice. If I miss twice, I take a step forward...If I hit three times I take a step backward. My thinking is that it keeps challenging me and forces me to get comfortable at different distances. I start at 10 yards...don't give me any grief about that, please...I'm new at this and my eyes are old. Well...yesterday, I found myself further away than ever and I measured it at twenty yards. Now, I know that, for many of you, this is probably considered an easy distance, but I'm actually a little proud of it.

I'm making my own 1632 shooters with 550 cord and they are, if not pretty, at least less ugly than they were.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

TaskForceK said:


> I've been playing a game with myself (don't read anything into that) when I practice.  If I miss twice, I take a step forward...If I hit three times I take a step backward. My thinking is that it keeps challenging me and forces me to get comfortable at different distances. I start at 10 yards...don't give me any grief about that, please...I'm new at this and my eyes are old. Well...yesterday, I found myself further away than ever and I measured it at twenty yards. Now, I know that, for many of you, this is probably considered an easy distance, but I'm actually a little proud of it.
> 
> I'm making my own 1632 shooters with 550 cord and they are, if not pretty, at least less ugly than they were.


That sounds like great shooting, playing that game I don't think I would find myself at 20 yards very often if ever!


----------



## TaskForceK

High Desert Flipper said:


> TaskForceK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been playing a game with myself (don't read anything into that) when I practice. If I miss twice, I take a step forward...If I hit three times I take a step backward. My thinking is that it keeps challenging me and forces me to get comfortable at different distances. I start at 10 yards...don't give me any grief about that, please...I'm new at this and my eyes are old. Well...yesterday, I found myself further away than ever and I measured it at twenty yards. Now, I know that, for many of you, this is probably considered an easy distance, but I'm actually a little proud of it.
> 
> I'm making my own 1632 shooters with 550 cord and they are, if not pretty, at least less ugly than they were.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like great shooting, playing that game I don't think I would find myself at 20 yards very often if ever!
Click to expand...

Well...let me Paul Harvey my story...I wasn't there for very long. I missed so many times in a row after that, I almost ended up with the target behind me.


----------



## TaskForceK

Oh, shoot...almost forgot. I found a five-pound bag of dried chick peas in the dark recesses of my pantry. I've been using them for casual target practice. Occasionally, you get one that is oddly-shaped and arcs away to left or right and they don't have enough mass to do more than dent a can, but there are untold thousands of them in the bag.

Has anybody else ever tried them? I wonder what dried corn kernels might be like: they seem more ummm...aerodynamic(?)

EDIT: I just did a Google search and found that slightly over one-million people had this chickpea idea before me. Rats! I was really excited.


----------



## Covert5

TaskForceK said:


> I've been playing a game with myself (don't read anything into that) when I practice. If I miss twice, I take a step forward...If I hit three times I take a step backward. My thinking is that it keeps challenging me and forces me to get comfortable at different distances. I start at 10 yards...don't give me any grief about that, please...I'm new at this and my eyes are old. Well...yesterday, I found myself further away than ever and I measured it at twenty yards. Now, I know that, for many of you, this is probably considered an easy distance, but I'm actually a little proud of it.
> 
> I'm making my own 1632 shooters with 550 cord and they are, if not pretty, at least less ugly than they were.


Great shoot'n! That's a good drill! Keep it up!

Sling-On!


----------



## High Desert Flipper

I



TaskForceK said:


> High Desert Flipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TaskForceK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been playing a game with myself (don't read anything into that) when I practice. If I miss twice, I take a step forward...If I hit three times I take a step backward. My thinking is that it keeps challenging me and forces me to get comfortable at different distances. I start at 10 yards...don't give me any grief about that, please...I'm new at this and my eyes are old. Well...yesterday, I found myself further away than ever and I measured it at twenty yards. Now, I know that, for many of you, this is probably considered an easy distance, but I'm actually a little proud of it.
> 
> I'm making my own 1632 shooters with 550 cord and they are, if not pretty, at least less ugly than they were.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like great shooting, playing that game I don't think I would find myself at 20 yards very often if ever!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well...let me Paul Harvey my story...I wasn't there for very long. I missed so many times in a row after that, I almost ended up with the target behind me.
Click to expand...

I like to play a similar game with both bows and slings to help with judging distance. I decide on a number of paces, say 6, 7, 10, 11, or whatever. Then I shoot from multiples of those. Say starting at 8 paces from the taget with five shots, then 8 more back and 5 more shots, then 8 back again and... then maybe 16 in and... you get the idea. No rewards or penalties for hitting or missing, just a few shots from lots of different distances without any of them being from a well measured 10 or 20 yard mark. I enjoy this one and hope that it will help with judging distance. The hold under / over change isn't as big for me with the slingshot as it is with a bow (lower anchor with the bow) but adjusting for trajectory of the ball is still a very real thing.


----------



## TaskForceK

High Desert Flipper said:


> I
> 
> 
> 
> TaskForceK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> High Desert Flipper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TaskForceK said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been playing a game with myself (don't read anything into that) when I practice. If I miss twice, I take a step forward...If I hit three times I take a step backward. My thinking is that it keeps challenging me and forces me to get comfortable at different distances. I start at 10 yards...don't give me any grief about that, please...I'm new at this and my eyes are old. Well...yesterday, I found myself further away than ever and I measured it at twenty yards. Now, I know that, for many of you, this is probably considered an easy distance, but I'm actually a little proud of it.
> 
> I'm making my own 1632 shooters with 550 cord and they are, if not pretty, at least less ugly than they were.
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds like great shooting, playing that game I don't think I would find myself at 20 yards very often if ever!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well...let me Paul Harvey my story...I wasn't there for very long. I missed so many times in a row after that, I almost ended up with the target behind me.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I like to play a similar game with both bows and slings to help with judging distance. I decide on a number of paces, say 6, 7, 10, 11, or whatever. Then I shoot from multiples of those. Say starting at 8 paces from the taget with five shots, then 8 more back and 5 more shots, then 8 back again and... then maybe 16 in and... you get the idea. No rewards or penalties for hitting or missing, just a few shots from lots of different distances without any of them being from a well measured 10 or 20 yard mark. I enjoy this one and hope that it will help with judging distance. The hold under / over change isn't as big for me with the slingshot as it is with a bow (lower anchor with the bow) but adjusting for trajectory of the ball is still a very real thing.
Click to expand...

So...maybe we both have a similar practice method that helps with varying distances or maybe we're both numerically obsessive-compulsive. Either way, I'm glad it's not just me.


----------



## skarrd

Frameless Friday,these 2 5/16s steels,2040 Simple Shot tubes.

i like the game ideas you guys have,gonna have to try them out.Thanks


----------



## Covert5

skarrd said:


> Frameless Friday,these 2 5/16s steels,2040 Simple Shot tubes.
> i like the game ideas you guys have,gonna have to try them out.Thanks


Skarrd! Great looking rigs brotha! Good idea using a carabiner as a frameless anchor!


----------



## skarrd

thanks,yeah the carabiner helps with the shorter tubes-12 inch 2040s,lol


----------



## TaskForceK

Y'all ever had one of those days when you don't seem to miss? I had one yesterday (just bragging). I tried something a little different: normally I shoot at a small paper plate about the size of a tea saucer...this time, I put up a big hunk of cardboard and drew a little circle in the middle as the target. I kept hitting a few inches to the right, but my groups were pretty decent (I mean, I've had bigger groups with a rifle and smaller patterns with a shotgun, but I'll take what I can get).

It just allowed me to see where I was actually hitting plus every shot had that addictively satisfying THWACK!


----------



## J3ff

About how long do I need to cut my strip for a 31 inch draw? I want to try framless but not waste a bunch of latex to find out.


----------



## KawKan

Here's how I'd approach it.

I'd start with an active length of 1/4 of your draw, or 7.75 inches. Add 3 or 4 inches that will be in your frame hand (wrapped or gripped) - lets round up to 11 or 12 inches. Since you need two sides, double that for a 22 to 24 inch tube or strip. I'd go will 24, because it's hard to make latex longer, but easy to shorten. And, starting with a rig that's slightly underpowered is usually preferable to starting with a rig that's overpowered.



J3ff said:


> About how long do I need to cut my strip for a 31 inch draw? I want to try framless but not waste a bunch of latex to find out.


----------



## skarrd

decisions,decisions,lol,


----------



## skarrd

Oh and i am using 1636 tubes cut at 13 inches for my 35 inch draw [web of hand to back of ear] without the rings i usually cut my tubes [1636 and 2040s] at 17 or 19 inches,so 20-24 sounds about right for starters,just my .02 cents


----------



## J3ff

Thanks I will cut a 24 and get back you yall


----------



## J3ff

Ok so I tried 24 and cut it down to 18 but I am barely getting my ammo into the box 11mm I have ss black .7mm I did my strip 3/4 in wide


----------



## KawKan

Well, @J3ff, it sounds like you have the ammo headed toward the target without frame hits. That's good.

Get out a ruler, set up your band like you shoot, and measure the distance from where the band leaves your finger to the pouch. With a 3/4-inch band of .7mm latex, a length 1/4 your draw length should be sending 11mm ammo with authority - even if it's lead.



J3ff said:


> Ok so I tried 24 and cut it down to 18 but I am barely getting my ammo into the box 11mm I have ss black .7mm I did my strip 3/4 in wide


----------



## skarrd

i guess i should have also said i dont shoot with open fingers,shoot more pfs style [just works better for me] and i only go up to 3/8s steels,shooting flats is a bit different than tubes,so not sure what my band length would be,but i will be finding out.11 mm is almost 1/2 inch right? i have shot 1/2 in marbles and they drop a Lot.


----------



## High Desert Flipper

Check out this video of a frameless five-shooter. Pretty wild- I'm just trying to get the hang of one at a time.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMewRVNSC/


----------



## skarrd

thats amazing,i think i will stick with just one at a time,,,,,


----------



## Adonis

I got into frameless last year, I liked it and I still shoot frameless from time time.

Peace


----------



## skarrd

frameless and pfs are my favorite forms


----------



## Covert5

I'm with you brotha Skarrd! And I shoot all frames pfs, just my personal preference!


----------



## skarrd

yep PFS,heck i even shoot fremeless PFS style,lol


----------



## SlingScott

I've just started to shoot frameless and this thread has been amazing. It took a while, but I read through the whole thing.
I'm wondering if there is an advantage to holding the tubing over the thumb or over the nail/joint or is it just personal preference?

















Also, "fork" hits hurt like an MF. Had a sloppy shot and took one right to the first finger knuckle yesterday, it still hurts. Good thing it was only 3/8's clay.


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## Slingshot28

Hand position is preference and the ability of you hand.


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## skarrd

SlingScott said:


> I've just started to shoot frameless and this thread has been amazing. It took a while, but I read through the whole thing.
> I'm wondering if there is an advantage to holding the tubing over the thumb or over the nail/joint or is it just personal preference?
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> Also, "fork" hits hurt like an MF. Had a sloppy shot and took one right to the first finger knuckle yesterday, it still hurts. Good thing it was only 3/8's clay.


did that with a steely,got a chip missin from knuckle bone,lol,pretty sure the Sling Gods got a kick out of some of the language i used,,,,,,,


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## Slingshot28

I made this video awhile ago explaining how I shoot frameless, hope this helps.


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## skarrd

i like the tubes better than the flats as weel,easier to rig up and more comfy wrapped around the wrist,IMHO


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## SlingScott

skarrd said:


> did that with a steely,got a chip missin from knuckle bone,lol,pretty sure the Sling Gods got a kick out of some of the language i used,,,,,,,


I dinged it on Friday, then as it was starting to get better, I dinged it again Saturday.

I did make a 117b in a paracord sleeve today.


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## SlingScott

Slingshot28 said:


> I made this video awhile ago explaining how I shoot frameless, hope this helps.


I like how you have the band go under your 2nd finger. I was going over, but under makes it way more stable.


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## Slingshot28

SlingScott said:


> I like how you have the band go under your 2nd finger. I was going over, but under makes it way more stable.


Glad I could help.


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