# Form Vs Function - Design Philosophy



## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

I am interested in getting member viewpoints about slingshot/catapult design philosophy. Is functionality more important than aesthetics to you or vice versa? Why?

I am fascinated by spartan designs like the pf shooter and amazed by the beauty of many designs from maker's on this forum.

Thanks, in advance, for your comments...

Pawpawsailor


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

aesthetics follows function follows...................................... everyone has their own style as you have already noticed, and its not worth making if it does not work, no matter how beautiful.


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

Well every frame I make firstly and foremost is made so it is consistantly held the same way evey time, and its main focus is to shoot well.. I certainly take pride in a well finished piece, so aesthetics are also important too.. so for me its a bit of every thing really.. when it shoots great, and looks great, and feels great every box has been ticked..








Cheers, Ben


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

I agree! I've noticed that some real artistic folks have made beautiful forks that end up in a display cabinet. Not to say that is wrong, or that we can't appreciate art in the form of a slingshot fork...

I started making ss's for my grandkids and it seems to have become an addiction. I keep getting inspired by the custom maker's out there.

I'm hoping to get some fundamental function ideas to help weed out the useless or at least unhelpful attributes.


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## Setarip (Mar 27, 2012)

There is an old saying in the Aerospace industry "If it don't look right, it won't fly right" I Think the same applies here. Yes I like my SS to shoot well, but looking "right" whether that be symmetrical, assymetrical, or what not is also a huge factor. When I make a SS if it does not have that "look" of perfection and well thought out design....I scrap it.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Thanks Ben,

I'm still trying out different types to see what works for me. I do tend to lean toward small size and simple design.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> I agree! I've noticed that some real artistic folks have made beautiful forks that end up in a display cabinet. Not to say that is wrong, or that we can't appreciate art in the form of a slingshot fork...
> 
> I started making ss's for my grandkids and it seems to have become an addiction. I keep getting inspired by the custom maker's out there.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some fundamental function ideas to help weed out the useless or at least unhelpful attributes.


its a fun addiction, for me its a way to get away from everything. i usually start out with an idea or design, but thats just the beginning, more often than not it changes. but as long as you stick with the basic requirements its hard to go wrong. glad to hear your involving your grandchildren.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

I have temporarily settled on three designs that work well for me. I have a table full of early attempts in various materials and sizes. They will end up as give aways or tossed in the trash.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

newconvert said:


> its a fun addiction, for me its a way to get away from everything. i usually start out with an idea or design, but thats just the beginning, more often than not it changes. but as long as you stick with the basic requirements its hard to go wrong. glad to hear your involving your grandchildren.


I have nine grands that range from five to fourteen, and I'm hoping they will appreciate something handmade from their Pawpaw.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> I agree! I've noticed that some real artistic folks have made beautiful forks that end up in a display cabinet. Not to say that is wrong, or that we can't appreciate art in the form of a slingshot fork...
> 
> I started making ss's for my grandkids and it seems to have become an addiction. I keep getting inspired by the custom maker's out there.
> 
> I'm hoping to get some fundamental function ideas to help weed out the useless or at least unhelpful attributes.


I think that slingshots that are only displayed is a big difference than a slingshot made for display. I believe that if it can't shoot right isn't a slingshot, no matter if it looks great or not and whether it's is/isn't used.

LGD


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Setarip said:


> There is an old saying in the Aerospace industry "If it don't look right, it won't fly right" I Think the same applies here. Yes I like my SS to shoot well, but looking "right" whether that be symmetrical, assymetrical, or what not is also a huge factor. When I make a SS if it does not have that "look" of perfection and well thought out design....I scrap it.


I had a wrist rocket when I was a boy, but there is something about the beauty of wood that appeals more to me than metal. I have seen some really elaborate metal ss's but I'm more interested in the woodworking therapy.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

lightgeoduck said:


> I think that slingshots that are only displayed is a big difference than a slingshot made for display. I believe that if it can't shoot right isn't a slingshot, no matter if it looks great or not and whether it's is/isn't used.
> 
> LGD


Yes, but what a waste to have a great shooter that never gets shot!


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## Setarip (Mar 27, 2012)

Oh dont get me wrong....I really LOVE wood SS! Here is an analogy to what I was trying to convey: When I was learning to TIG weld in high school I would hear from other students about getting their welds done fast! But man...they looked like crap! Sure they were functional and held up well, but making a good looking weld takes only a little bit more time (and sometimes no more time than an ugly one!) Function is the ultimate goal of a SS, but if you're going to put the work in to make one....why not spend the little extra time and make it look right too?


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> I think that slingshots that are only displayed is a big difference than a slingshot made for display. I believe that if it can't shoot right isn't a slingshot, no matter if it looks great or not and whether it's is/isn't used.
> 
> LGD


Yes, but what a waste to have a great shooter that never gets shot!
[/quote]true!!!! haha, i have a few that are too nice, and when i am shooting my hand moves towards the "art" and i think what if? so i move on...............


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Setarip said:


> Oh dont get me wrong....I really LOVE wood SS! Here is an analogy to what I was trying to convey: When I was learning to TIG weld in high school I would hear from other students about getting their welds done fast! But man...they looked like crap! Sure they were functional and held up well, but making a good looking weld takes only a little bit more time (and sometimes no more time than an ugly one!) Function is the ultimate goal of a SS, but if you're going to put the work in to make one....why not spend the little extra time and make it look right too?


You have my admiration! My brother is a machinist and can do about anything with metal. Alas, I didn't receive that gene...


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## lloydedwards40 (Apr 16, 2012)

Form follows function.
To be a "catapult" it must do what a "catapult" does. Something in the shape of a catapult isn't a catapult necessarily.
Embellishments/design factors don't change the basic function, I know we come from different continents here, but surely we aren't in 'Alice in Wonderland' where words mean what you want them to mean?
What I'm reading about every day at the moment would suggest that you should put the item on fleabay described it as a "slingshot" or "catapult" only. If it doesn't make money, then it's no good (like teachers, police etc),
love'n'joy
Lloyd


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

lloydedwards40 said:


> Form follows function.
> To be a "catapult" it must do what a "catapult" does. Something in the shape of a catapult isn't a catapult necessarily.
> Embellishments/design factors don't change the basic function, I know we come from different continents here, but surely we aren't in 'Alice in Wonderland' where words mean what you want them to mean?
> What I'm reading about every day at the moment would suggest that you should put the item on fleabay described it as a "slingshot" or "catapult" only. If it doesn't make money, then it's no good (like teachers, police etc),
> ...


I suppose everyone needs an extra income these days, but the stuff advertised on E-Bay has not impressed me. Your point is a good one... Just what must the ss/catapult do? I want it to be lethal for small game, effective for scattering nuisance dogs in the neighborhood, small enough to tuck comfortably in my pocket with some ammo, easy to shoot without busting my knuckles, and pleasing to the eye while it is at it.


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## Sofreto (May 10, 2012)

BOTH are important

Cheers,

Sofreto


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

A Slingshot like a shoe. What fits one man won't fit another.Like the old saying, If the shoe fits wear it. A vendor may come up with a great design for his own physiology but may be uncomfortable to a lot of others.There is the beauty of making your own.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

treefork said:


> A Slingshot like a shoe. What fits one man won't fit another.Like the old saying, If the shoe fits wear it. A vendor may come up with a great design for his own physiology but may be uncomfortable to a lot of others.There is the beauty of making your own.


Love it! Might be nice if everyone wore a size 10 shoe... ;D Your point is excellent.


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

function part comes first- in terms of time

only a great shooter can create a great slingshot, every little element you learn by shooting and experience

fork tips, band grooves, width of forks, how tall should forks be, handle shape, forks canted away or toward you etc

all these elements and more require careful testing on your part to shape to your liking

form comes naturally as function develops, but to add STYLE, is another level

STYLE is the spice you give each art piece without taking away function, but not many people touch on this level, i can probably count the slingshots with style with my fingers

it's very nice to meet you, seeing you're from Alabama i couldn't resist:






XD


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

strikewzen said:


> function part comes first- in terms of time
> 
> only a great shooter can create a great slingshot, every little element you learn by shooting and experience
> 
> ...


I think that guy lives down the street.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> I think that slingshots that are only displayed is a big difference than a slingshot made for display. I believe that if it can't shoot right isn't a slingshot, no matter if it looks great or not and whether it's is/isn't used.
> 
> LGD


Yes, but what a waste to have a great shooter that never gets shot!
[/quote]

No doubt







. I have a couple works of art that I display,but I shoot every one. I count marks as "war badges" which are just as beautiful as the piece itself


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

your either a baker, cake decorator , cake eater , or all . i like to keep it simple so as not to overthink a design or concept . ill use the man that a lot of people on here admire, ruffus hussey, all he used was a forked tree branch, not no designer model . everyone has a different piece of eye candy that gets thier sweet tooth aching .


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

One man's function is not the same as the next. Dgui wants to do different things than Bill Hays. It has a bearing on the form.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

pop shot said:


> One man's function is not the same as the next. Dgui wants to do different things than Bill Hays. It has a bearing on the form.


I'm not sure I understand your point... Isn't it to hit what you shoot at? It seems to me we all have the same function that only varies by distance, target size and power needed to hit it. I admit hitting it with the fanciest ss adds to the fun and pride factor. When the day is done function must be more important than form!


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

there's also different style of shooting is what he meant, experiment all possibilities and when you perfect the function, pick minimalism or style


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

LGD, IMP, PS, you guys hit it straight on the head, one mans keeper is another mans trash, some scoff at boutique frames, while other scoff at natty's, the result is really all that matters.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

strikewzen said:


> there's also different style of shooting is what he meant, experiment all possibilities and when you perfect the function, pick minimalism or style


Excellent point, and even as a newbie, I should have thought of it too.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

If I wanted a slingshot that just shot good (which is almost all of them) I'd just buy one and practice with it till I got good. Making my first one was fun. Beyond the first one, though, it became a matter of self-expression and learning.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

A friend that used to be a pistol competitor told me once, "The guy that shows up wearing tattered coveralls with an oily old bag and a ratty old gun with band aids on his fingers and spit on his sight will usually win the match." He added, "Watch out for the guy that owns just one gun, he might just know how to use it!"


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## kooniu (Jul 14, 2011)

I,m still looking for my "Graal" and the funcjon is always primary point, but I like if is good looking , same like a girl


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> If I wanted a slingshot that just shot good (which is almost all of them) I'd just buy one and practice with it till I got good. Making my first one was fun. Beyond the first one, though, it became a matter of self-expression and learning.


I agree with you! But if you could only have one, which would you choose?


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> If I wanted a slingshot that just shot good (which is almost all of them) I'd just buy one and practice with it till I got good. Making my first one was fun. Beyond the first one, though, it became a matter of self-expression and learning.


I agree with you! But if you could only have one, which would you choose?
[/quote]the one in my hand, else it would not be there, too many to narrow it down, you only dont shoot the ones you cant shoot well or cause you pain or fatigue. as my good friend Charles and so many others here on the SSF have demonstrated you can make a treasure out of anything, so your asking which one to choose from? hmmmm? sounds like you are asking the forum to help you choose a frame for yourself........... i pick all of them!


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

newconvert said:


> the one in my hand, else it would not be there, too many to narrow it down, you only dont shoot the ones you cant shoot well or cause you pain or fatigue. as my good friend Charles and so many others here on the SSF have demonstrated you can make a treasure out of anything, so your asking which one to choose from? hmmmm? sounds like you are asking the forum to help you choose a frame for yourself........... i pick all of them!


So far I've made about 60 slingshots of different designs sizes and materials. I have found that accuracy and consistency is not just a matter of the shooter. At least in my case. Some designs allow for a better sight picture and results in better shooting. Some feel more comfortable and some just have greater eye appeal. It became apparent that I was trying to "reinvent the wheel" unnecessarily. You guys are far more adept at ss's than I, so it is my intent to shorten the learning curve by gleaning wisdom from those who know. Your opinions are important to help me develop the knowledge to make my own decision as to what is best for myself. Thanks for your help!


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

if you have made 60 slingers you have made more than many of us! why dont you show some of your work? some of the best ideas come from new members, fresh ideas! heck i love working on new designs, it would be a pleasure to see your work......................... dont be shy


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

newconvert said:


> if you have made 60 slingers you have made more than many of us! why dont you show some of your work? some of the best ideas come from new members, fresh ideas! heck i love working on new designs, it would be a pleasure to see your work......................... dont be shy


I have several posted on YouTube at... http://www.youtube.com/user/pawpawsailor?feature=mhee


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> if you have made 60 slingers you have made more than many of us! why dont you show some of your work? some of the best ideas come from new members, fresh ideas! heck i love working on new designs, it would be a pleasure to see your work......................... dont be shy


I have several posted on YouTube at... http://www.youtube.c...or?feature=mhee
[/quote]now thats what i'm talking about! your designs are unique! cool, take some photos of frames you might want to improve on and the members love to kick in and help, some very creative minds here, looks like your no slouch either.

its hard sometimes to talk about design, when its just in print, photos are worth.......................... you know


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

newconvert said:


> now thats what i'm talking about! your designs are unique! cool, take some photos of frames you might want to improve on and the members love to kick in and help, some very creative minds here, looks like your no slouch either.
> 
> its hard sometimes to talk about design, when its just in print, photos are worth.......................... you know


You are very kind! I've got a problem with posting photos to this forum... I recently gave my PC to my Father-in-law and only have my iPad now. Apparently, the software operating this forum doesn't support iPad. Do you have any suggestions?


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> now thats what i'm talking about! your designs are unique! cool, take some photos of frames you might want to improve on and the members love to kick in and help, some very creative minds here, looks like your no slouch either.
> 
> its hard sometimes to talk about design, when its just in print, photos are worth.......................... you know


You are very kind! I've got a problem with posting photos to this forum... I recently gave my PC to my Father-in-law and only have my iPad now. Apparently, the software operating this forum doesn't support iPad. Do you have any suggestions?
[/quote]someone will chime in to help with that, im not so much a techie, i did watch your vids, you have some cool stuff i might take a crack at your version of the PFS, nice slant to Dgui's work...................... i knew it, a shy guy, your work is very nice!


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

newconvert said:


> someone will chime in to help with that, im not so much a techie, i did watch your vids, you have some cool stuff i might take a crack at your version of the PFS, nice slant to Dgui's work...................... i knew it, a shy guy, your work is very nice!


Thanks! I don't have any drawings or detail sketches, I work by sight and feel. I've nicknamed the pickle fork the knuckle-buster, I'm missing something on how to hold it without suffering the aftermath. It shoots very well and I can hit the target consistently, but it takes a couple of days for the bruises and swelling to go out of my index finger... :0


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Pawpawsailor said:


> If I wanted a slingshot that just shot good (which is almost all of them) I'd just buy one and practice with it till I got good. Making my first one was fun. Beyond the first one, though, it became a matter of self-expression and learning.


I agree with you! But if you could only have one, which would you choose?
[/quote]

Right now, I would choose the scaled down Tex-Shooter Classic I just made. But once I make another that falls into my hand and shooting style I will probably change my mind. So New Convert answered that question best. "The one that's in my hand."

I can tell you this, though: a pickle fork would NEVER be my choice, because I can't shoot for sh*t with 'em.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> someone will chime in to help with that, im not so much a techie, i did watch your vids, you have some cool stuff i might take a crack at your version of the PFS, nice slant to Dgui's work...................... i knew it, a shy guy, your work is very nice!


Thanks! I don't have any drawings or detail sketches, I work by sight and feel. I've nicknamed the pickle fork the knuckle-buster, I'm missing something on how to hold it without suffering the aftermath. It shoots very well and I can hit the target consistently, but it takes a couple of days for the bruises and swelling to go out of my index finger... :0
[/quote]if you are getting hand slaps your bands are probably too heavy for your ammo, thats why photos will help, it could be your pouch is too big?......................

just for grins i watched your other vids, your problem with hand slaps is your bands are way too heavy for the ammo you are shooting, so after the shot your bands are expending the energy on your hand lol, usually the bands you are using most people use 3/8" steel bearings.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Pawpawsailor said:


> One man's function is not the same as the next. Dgui wants to do different things than Bill Hays. It has a bearing on the form.


I'm not sure I understand your point... Isn't it to hit what you shoot at? It seems to me we all have the same function that only varies by distance, target size and power needed to hit it. I admit hitting it with the fanciest ss adds to the fun and pride factor. When the day is done function must be more important than form!
[/quote]

I think what PopShot is trying to say is... some will hold the slingshot differently than others... some forks up flat, some forks up canted forward... some to the side, some with a cant... and some will hold somewhere in between.
Plus some want a slingshot for hunting, which requires one shot one kill capability and the feel and confidence a hand filling frame brings... some want to shoot with as much power as possible and accuracy is a secondary consideration, so go with hammergrip and low forks.... some like to do trickshots that require speed reloads, where neither pinpoint accuracy at a decent distance or extreme power is a primary consideration.

So you have slingshots of all shapes and sizes to cater to those desires... for example, the majority of mine are designed so that I can make one shot one kill on game, and I practice shooting at very small targets at common hunting engagement distances, with ammo and bandsetups that are capable of killing.... and I will make a fancy looking shooter every now and then, but the primary desired function is one shot one kill.

Small designs such as the PFS types are more designed for extreme pocketability, with the primary function to be fast and nimble in the hand... gives you better speed shooting potential... which is good for stuff like up close "wing shooting" or shooting many times in a short period of time. Usually these are used to engage fairly large targets (like soda cans) at distances around and under 10 meters... but there are some master shooters who will shoot much smaller stuff like thrown coins and marbles from distances between 5 and 15 feet.... and most are quite the opposite of fancy.

Hammer grip designs like Joerg Sprave favors... Germany does not allow wrist braces, so the design he uses gets him the maximum power without one. He likes to shoot big ammo with a lot of power.... of course accuracy suffers, but the power can be impressive for a hand held rubber powered device.... some can be quite beautiful.

Anyway that's a very short explanation... and you should know, everything is a trade off.... and NO slingshot is as accurate or powerful as a .22 long rifle... which is part of the challenge, to make yourself and your low powered weapon to be equal to a .22!


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Bill Hays said:


> I think what PopShot is trying to say is... some will hold the slingshot differently than others... some forks up flat, some forks up canted forward... some to the side, some with a cant... and some will hold somewhere in between.
> Plus some want a slingshot for hunting, which requires one shot one kill capability and the feel and confidence a hand filling frame brings... some want to shoot with as much power as possible and accuracy is a secondary consideration, so go with hammergrip and low forks.... some like to do trickshots that require speed reloads, where neither pinpoint accuracy at a decent distance or extreme power is a primary consideration.
> 
> So you have slingshots of all shapes and sizes to cater to those desires... for example, the majority of mine are designed so that I can make one shot one kill on game, and I practice shooting at very small targets at common hunting engagement distances, with ammo and bandsetups that are capable of killing.... and I will make a fancy looking shooter every now and then, but the primary desired function is one shot one kill.
> ...


I see your point! So, theoretically, one might need a sort of golfers bag variety to cover the different applications he might encounter.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> Right now, I would choose the scaled down Tex-Shooter Classic I just made. But once I make another that falls into my hand and shooting style I will probably change my mind. So New Convert answered that question best. "The one that's in my hand."
> 
> I can tell you this, though: a pickle fork would NEVER be my choice, because I can't shoot for sh*t with 'em.


I printed the Tex-shooter design and started work on a variation this morning. I should have it done by late afternoon.


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## KennyCannon (Aug 24, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> now thats what i'm talking about! your designs are unique! cool, take some photos of frames you might want to improve on and the members love to kick in and help, some very creative minds here, looks like your no slouch either.
> 
> its hard sometimes to talk about design, when its just in print, photos are worth.......................... you know


You are very kind! I've got a problem with posting photos to this forum... I recently gave my PC to my Father-in-law and only have my iPad now. Apparently, the software operating this forum doesn't support iPad. Do you have any suggestions?
[/quote]

The forum should work fine on an Ipad. I view it on my Ipad all the time. You'll have issues with any flash elements that might be in the forum but other than that, it should work. If you are still having issues you can download TapaTalk App for forums. http://www.tapatalk.com/

Oh and Function over Fashion.


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

Tapatalk is the way to go. I think it's free. 
Let me explain what I said earlier. 
Dgui likes to shoot instinctively, fast, close targets. His typical forks are very narrow, basically no gap making fork angle irrelevant, just point and shoot. 
Bill shoots little things at distance, his forks are wide, reload speed not a factor. Each shooter could not reach their full potential with the others favorite shooter. But after details like that, function first.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

KennyCannon said:


> now thats what i'm talking about! your designs are unique! cool, take some photos of frames you might want to improve on and the members love to kick in and help, some very creative minds here, looks like your no slouch either.
> 
> its hard sometimes to talk about design, when its just in print, photos are worth.......................... you know


You are very kind! I've got a problem with posting photos to this forum... I recently gave my PC to my Father-in-law and only have my iPad now. Apparently, the software operating this forum doesn't support iPad. Do you have any suggestions?
[/quote]

The forum should work fine on an Ipad. I view it on my Ipad all the time. You'll have issues with any flash elements that might be in the forum but other than that, it should work. If you are still having issues you can download TapaTalk App for forums. http://www.tapatalk.com/

Oh and Function over Fashion.
[/quote]

I'm able to read and participate fine, just can't upload pictures. I'll check ou the app. Thanks!


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

The app solves that.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

I got the Tapatalk app, so here are a few of the slingshots I have made.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

thats a very cool take on the PFS


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

i like the pfs you made . i guess it all comes down to the indian, a slingshot is only as good as its user, just cause its eye candy it dont mean it shoots better than a pieced together piece of scrap . your question now makes full sense to me. i think you just havent found your shooting style yet . your probally still tinkering with hammer and gangster and what feels good . keep at it and keep building them slingshots !


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Imperial said:


> i like the pfs you made . i guess it all comes down to the indian, a slingshot is only as good as its user, just cause its eye candy it dont mean it shoots better than a pieced together piece of scrap . your question now makes full sense to me. i think you just havent found your shooting style yet . your probally still tinkering with hammer and gangster and what feels good . keep at it and keep building them slingshots !


Thanks for your comments, I hope to learn from everyone here... I like to do my best at whatever I'm doing... I'm certain this is a good training facility.


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

pawsailor you're really a humble person, those slingshots are wonderful and among the best i've seen

i'm sorry i thought you were a beginner, and that is the farthest thing from you

with your attitude you will go very very far in anything you do mate


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## Bruno529 (Apr 8, 2012)

Setarip said:


> Oh dont get me wrong....I really LOVE wood SS! Here is an analogy to what I was trying to convey: When I was learning to TIG weld in high school I would hear from other students about getting their welds done fast! But man...they looked like crap! Sure they were functional and held up well, but making a good looking weld takes only a little bit more time (and sometimes no more time than an ugly one!) Function is the ultimate goal of a SS, but if you're going to put the work in to make one....why not spend the little extra time and make it look right too?


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

That's some beautiful work you got there, and fine shooters I am sur!

LGD


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

strikewzen said:


> pawsailor you're really a humble person, those slingshots are wonderful and among the best i've seen
> 
> i'm sorry i thought you were a beginner, and that is the farthest thing from you
> 
> with your attitude you will go very very far in anything you do mate


Those are very kind words. Thank you!


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

lightgeoduck said:


> That's some beautiful work you got there, and fine shooters I am sur!
> 
> LGD


These were the results of Early testing. I had some HDPE scrap planks left over from a sailing dinghy project and made several of the model on the left. It took me some time to get the right touch with my jigsaw. Looking at older designs I had come across the British Milbro and liked the size and shape. Then I tried the same general shape in Bamboo, the one on the right. I've made over a dozen of each to give away. My nine grandchildren will get bamboo versions for Christmas this year. Using 3/16" diameter latex surgical tube, these are perfect for target shooting with 20 gr. airsoft BB's. I figure they are not powerful enough to hurt the little ones but will be good for developing accuracy. Both models shoot well, but I settled on the bamboo because of their aesthetic superiority over the plastic. From there I'm afraid the project snowballed. I wanted to try every piece of wood I could find. I have a box of miserable failures to remind me of stupid mistakes made by working too fast.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

newconvert said:


> someone will chime in to help with that, im not so much a techie, i did watch your vids, you have some cool stuff i might take a crack at your version of the PFS, nice slant to Dgui's work...................... i knew it, a shy guy, your work is very nice!


Thanks! I don't have any drawings or detail sketches, I work by sight and feel. I've nicknamed the pickle fork the knuckle-buster, I'm missing something on how to hold it without suffering the aftermath. It shoots very well and I can hit the target consistently, but it takes a couple of days for the bruises and swelling to go out of my index finger... :0
[/quote]if you are getting hand slaps your bands are probably too heavy for your ammo, thats why photos will help, it could be your pouch is too big?......................

just for grins i watched your other vids, your problem with hand slaps is your bands are way too heavy for the ammo you are shooting, so after the shot your bands are expending the energy on your hand lol, usually the bands you are using most people use 3/8" steel bearings.[/quote]

So basically, what you're saying is I can solve my problem by shooting steel balls? Ok, now I've gotta build a stronger target box to catch them...


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Yes use heavier ammo.

But more important: You make a crackerjack slingshot, bro!


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> Yes use heavier ammo.
> 
> But more important: You make a crackerjack slingshot, bro!










thanks... Which one?


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## wombat (Jun 10, 2011)

Pawpawsailor said:


> someone will chime in to help with that, im not so much a techie, i did watch your vids, you have some cool stuff i might take a crack at your version of the PFS, nice slant to Dgui's work...................... i knew it, a shy guy, your work is very nice!


Thanks! I don't have any drawings or detail sketches, I work by sight and feel. I've nicknamed the pickle fork the knuckle-buster, I'm missing something on how to hold it without suffering the aftermath. It shoots very well and I can hit the target consistently, but it takes a couple of days for the bruises and swelling to go out of my index finger... :0
[/quote]if you are getting hand slaps your bands are probably too heavy for your ammo, thats why photos will help, it could be your pouch is too big?......................

just for grins i watched your other vids, your problem with hand slaps is your bands are way too heavy for the ammo you are shooting, so after the shot your bands are expending the energy on your hand lol, usually the bands you are using most people use 3/8" steel bearings.[/quote]

So basically, what you're saying is I can solve my problem by shooting steel balls? Ok, now I've gotta build a stronger target box to catch them...








[/quote]

or go to lighter bands. I often shoot 'splat balls',which are probally even lighter than what you're shooting. straight cut 3/4 tbg at about 7" or TB yellow tubes about the same lenght. hardly ever get a slap, unless i've stuffed up holding the pouch!


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

handslaps can hurt if the pouch is too heavy, a lightweight pouch can reduce this

due to its lightweight and high strength, pouches made from kangaroo leather are known to reduce handslaps, you may find uncut leather here http://slingshotforum.com/topic/15659-kangaroo-leather/

those are chrome tanned and chosen specifically for qualities that pouches require

if you don't want to cut your own pouches, try to contact Jim Williams with PM he makes these ready to shoot


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

strikewzen said:


> handslaps can hurt if the pouch is too heavy, a lightweight pouch can reduce this
> 
> due to its lightweight and high strength, pouches made from kangaroo leather are known to reduce handslaps, you may find uncut leather here http://slingshotforum.com/topic/15659-kangaroo-leather/
> 
> ...


Thanks for your comment...

I have a touch of arthritis in my hands so it would be nice to alleviate this annoyance. I've looked at Jim's pouches and a couple of others on the web. I think that I will take the plunge and try some of these in comparison. If only to get some ideas on how to improve my own. One of the appeals to this whole thing is making something useful entirely myself. That not intended as a matter of pride, as such, but more a matter of self-sufficiency.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Regarding the hand slaps, and to avoid any misconceptions, please allow me to specify that this is only occurring with the PFS, not my thru the fork ss's.


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

yep i get handslaps on specific models just like you, read many times when fork groove is closer to the tip handslaps are reduced

there's also a way to attach bands recommended by Tex-shooter that eliminate handslaps completely:










also have a look at Jskeen's top slot mod http://slingshotforum.com/topic/16372-modifying-a-chalice/


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

strikewzen said:


> yep i get handslaps on specific models just like you, read many times when fork groove is closer to the tip handslaps are reduced
> 
> there's also a way to attach bands recommended by Tex-shooter that eliminate handslaps completely:
> 
> ...


That's a very interesting concept. I suppose that means forward orientation is no longer an issue.


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

Hays top slot still gives slap sometimes. Shoot something heavier. Tex's looks interesting


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## jazz (May 15, 2012)

hi all,

Sorry to get into this discussion a bit late.

For me form and function are not antonyms, therefore I do not agree with the implied question: form OR function.

Instead of "form vs. function" I would rather speak of "form&function" (as has been already said here in some way) or the unity of those, or still better, maybe, of APPROPRIATENESS of a form for a given function.

And this is where true beauty is: just think of a shark or of a bird of paradise and how their respective forms, so different in many aspects, equaliy do their functions well, in this case survival.

For a slingshot maker the function can be precision, ability to bring an anymal down or just to impress, and he/she will then try to make a slingshot with more teeth or with more feathers, or some combination of these, and this is how evolution of slingshots goes on.

cheers


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

jazz said:


> hi all,
> 
> Sorry to get into this discussion a bit late.
> 
> ...


Thanks for your contribution.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> Yes use heavier ammo.
> 
> But more important: You make a crackerjack slingshot, bro!


Tried using 1/2" marbles this afternoon and had much better luck. Thanks for the tip!


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Pawpawsailor said:


> Yes use heavier ammo.
> 
> But more important: You make a crackerjack slingshot, bro!


Tried using 1/2" marbles this afternoon and had much better luck. Thanks for the tip!
[/quote]

Yes, do a little bit of experimenting and you will soon get a feel for which ammo to match with which bands.
By the way, I really like ALL of your slingshots, but the one below I absolutely _love_. Is it Cedar?


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> Yes use heavier ammo.
> 
> But more important: You make a crackerjack slingshot, bro!


Tried using 1/2" marbles this afternoon and had much better luck. Thanks for the tip!
[/quote]

Yes, do a little bit of experimenting and you will soon get a feel for which ammo to match with which bands.
By the way, I really like ALL of your slingshots, but the one below I absolutely _love_. Is it Cedar?







[/quote]

I'll keep trying... Yes that one is southern red cedar. It is a bit on the light side, and extremely sensitive. You can actually feel the vibrations caused by the tightening of the bands as you pull it back. It is very similar the the feel of a guitar top when it vibrates.


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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

Since I have been coming here I have seen feats of skill that just amaze. I have seen ring shooters, and shooters with no frame at all. And there are a few folks around here that I believe could shoot by just using the "force". From my perspective, I think the reality is that most folks here could shoot using anything so function is a given. I think the aesthetics are very important for any hobby you will put a significant amount of time into.


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## Pawpawsailor (Jun 8, 2012)

I took a box of experimental slingshots camping with my wife and son. We spent a couple of days trying a variety of wood types and designs. About a half dozen kids joined us fro surrounding camps and we had a great time. The Milbro and Old Fashioned forks were the favorites in this bunch. Pf shooters received some interest, but it was difficult to get the kids to grasp the concept. The majority didn't really want to think very hard, just shoot and have fun. The hickory and Jatoba seemed to get most of the attention. My black walnut Milbro was not up to the test... After a day of shooting the left fork broke at the grain. It was just too soft... Oh well!


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