# BARE BACK STYLE (and semi bare back)



## Jax (Jan 8, 2011)

My favourite combo - 11 mm red tubes and 20 mm steel balls. 







....For those who haven't seen it yet, here is my first video:
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3kqnjSdhJO4
(it's only a general demonstration, a video of shooting steel ammo comes in roughly two weeks)
First of all my goal is not to encourage anyone but rather to assist those who would give it a go anyway.
A few words about shooting the only truly "frameless" slingshot - bare back style. 
( or semi bare back - with a glove but no band attachments, bands held over the fingers - works the same way)
After many people have recently tried shooting stick shots and found to their surprise that it works







some of them might be ready to go the next step towards slingshot simplicity - using pouch and elastics only.
Many are bound to love it as I do for that great feeling of being part of your slingshot (there is no such thing as a frameless slingshot, you cannot dispense of a frame - in bare back shooting your hand is the frame). And I like the thought I can encompass such powerful yet simple distance weapon just in a palm of my hand, ammo included or "put it in my wallet" as Dguy says. 
In fact Dguy has already tried my style and he likes it.
Bear in mind he had been shooting his own bare back style successfully before he tried mine and I also learned from him.
Thanks Dguy.
There are many advantages of bare back style as opposed to framed slingshots. Less bulk as you need no frame, no fork attachment fatigue or failure, easier and faster reload, no fork hits and handslaps are nearly non existent.
But the major advantage for those who want to shoot very powerful bands is the ability to pull a heavier draw rubber than they ever could on any other slingshot even when using braces.
Joerg's W-slingshot and particularly a glove shot he presented on his channel come closest to bare back shooting in this respect.
It's because there is no leverage of the slingshot handle straining your wrist and that strain gets bigger with a higher fork. Again it's more apparent with heavy draw bands and this difference makes you that little bit more relaxed when drawing and aiming.
I started my slingshot adventure with natural forks and I loved them. I still do. I just happened to join this forum shortly after discovering how brilliantly you can sling your ammo or arrows without any hardware frame at all but I'm sure
no bare back slingshot and not even a stick shot will ever replace the good old and proven design of Y fork. 
New ideas always keep coming but they are no threat for what already works well. They will not replace it.
Shooting bare back is for me an interesting and challenging alternative, very rewarding and may come handy in some survival situations.
In real emmergency a lot can be at stake. The less you need to get the job done the better off you are. Of course I will never limit myself to shooting bare back only but it will always be an important part of my slingshot adventure.

HOW I SHOOT BARE BACK ( round, conical or flechettes - it's all the same technique)
People who can shoot flip style are already nearly there. Particularly if you shoot with single stick because when flip shooting with a fork there is always a question "did the ammo go cleanly over or maybe a touch through the fork?"
Bare back shooting requires the same flipping action but in this case the flip is not so automatic.
When you draw bands attached to a frame the tops of the forks start moving towards the shooter. It's only a minimal movement but a lot of force builds up and when you release the pouch the forks spring back. This is more obvious with stronger bands and heavier projectiles. You want to exacerbate that springing action to get your fork or particularily stick out of the way of projectile. And shooting bare back you REALLY don't want any "fork" hits








In bare back style you want to imitate that flipping movement of the forks to get your hand out of the harm's way.
I don't draw rubber until the last moment and when I start drawing I'm aiming at the same time so there is no long pause when I reach full draw. During the first 80-90 percent of the draw 
length my wrist is at a slight angle to my forearm with knuckles looking up. At the last bit of the way three things happen simultaneously:
1 - I accelerate the speed of drawing with a thrust like foreward motion
2 - my wrist rotates travelling downwards
3 - I release the pouch
It's the harmonious combination of these three actions that ensures a safe and clean shot.
When I started shooting bare back over a year ago I had to go through trail and error experience. Of course my very first shot wasn't really bare back . 
I made a simple protector from a scrap bit of hard but flexible plastic for my forearm and wrist covering my knuckles as well.
After some practice time I had no hits and ditched the protector. Having rubber direct on my skin I could feel better what the projectile was up to. Later I discovered that final thrust added at the end of the drawing action which initiates pouch release is the best way of synchronising the whole shooting process and so I scrapped that longish aiming pause.
Rufus Hussey doesn't pause for aiming either so I' m in best company.







That extra push and acceleration literally pulls the pouch out of my hand. This way a projectile is released only when my wrist is rotated enough clearing the line of fire.
If you want to give it a go start with only half draw in kind of slow motion. Then gradually increase speed and draw length, reaching full length and full speed. 
I used this method myself and lately taught my sons successfully. 
If you couldn't help falling asleep you can wake up now








Another video demonstration comes mid February. Stay tuned and stay safe








Jacek

...


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Oh... this thread is about shooting a type of slingshot... got a little confused there for a second!


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Bill Hays said:


> Oh... this thread is about shooting a type of slingshot... got a little confused there for a second!


Well . . . so to speak.


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## faca (Dec 24, 2009)

I´m afread about fix hand sure I´d do something wrong and the arrow will stick in my hand


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

JAX, you have very well covered the JAX BareBack Style of shooting. So when all else fails if you have a at the least a band or tube and some type of pouch material you can have a means of shooting. It must be the least faint of heart that would attempt to shoot arrows the way you do. Perhaps one day I may attempt it. I have tried to do the flip action with slingshots esspecially after procuring a DanKung Axe Hunter. I could never get that part right. Tex has identified me as a Modified Flip Shooter. Maybe his is right, only I was not aware that I would flip at all when I shoot due to the farward angle already being there. One thing about me shooting BareBack JAX style is that I do not flip but instead hold the pouch different. So maybe I shoot Modified BareBack JAX Style. I like that lable. My personal opinion is that shooting close to the hand with a small fork or BareBack just might increase an individuals shooting skills. I dont think I would have come up with this powerful shooting style on my own so I appreciate your first video. The pictures you have posted are very impressive. I would like to see JoergS do something JAX full on BareBack with the extreem powerful tubes he has shown on his videos. Thanks for sharing and the liberating thinking that is set apart from the traditional in the box type thinking. Looking farward to more of your specialized shooting skills on your up coming videos. 
Dgui.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

I think I'll just peek out at you guys for a while.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Go ahead DayH, Think outside of that box like the rest of us Kooks.


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

LOL you guys are funny.

Neat shooting technique, A little scary for me however.

Cheers


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Plenty of room in the box for you, Gib!


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## Jax (Jan 8, 2011)

Hey Dguy, nice to see you back on the forum. I already missed your videos.
Thanks for your comments and frankly I don't know how you can shoot bare back without flip and not getting your hand hit. Either your twisting the pouch at an angle does a trick I can't understand or maybe you in addition do flip but without realising. Either way it works great. Since you talked about upgrading power of your bands I wonder if you will also find that stronger bands and heavier ammo actually make it easier to shoot safely and more accurate.
It looks like we are so far the only two members of Bareback Shooting Club.








Maybe we should announce free membership for all to encourage others to join us. 
Now talking seriously you and I know it's not so much about courage but plainly about knowing what you're doing and pushing your limits. If that's your thing. Some people just don't see the point and that's perfectly all right. 
Time will show if anyone else crosses the line.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

With only 2 club members there is plenty of room for more. The Key is shooting straight and level with the pouch turned sideways it never fails and always clears but this more than likely is not inclusive for arrows. Now I have been experimenting with an added twist to the pouch, but I will save that for some time T later. Not able to do videos for now but hope to soon. With the ZIP shooter powered up it does shoot flatter.

YeeeHaaa, I show love BareBack !


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## BaneofSmallGame (Sep 22, 2010)

In time my friends, I'm going to put either my TEx light bands or some short length 18-42 tubes on either a key fob or similar looped apparatus with a snap for easy band change. Then I'll give that a go with some practice I may try some bareback as well, but a fork is fine with me any day for heavy stone slingin

...................and then there were 3









Cheers - John


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## shooter452 (Nov 6, 2010)

I still don't quite get it.....but I want to. I can still see the bruised area (healed completly) behind my knucke from trying to master Dgui's style. I've been trying Jax's style a little (but using a Joergesque stick shot so the mistakes don't hurt so much) I shoot 4 or 5 good shots and then get a glancing blow on the stick (guess I'm not flipping fast enough but I'm honestly not sure what is happening). Oh.....the fun of learning something new!!!







BTW...the slingshot I use most is the dankung Axe and if you would have asked me I'd tell I'm a flip shooter. This little lesson is telling me maybe I'm not?


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

BaneofSmallGame said:


> In time my friends, I'm going to put either my TEx light bands or some short length 18-42 tubes on either a key fob or similar looped apparatus with a snap for easy band change. Then I'll give that a go with some practice I may try some bareback as well, but a fork is fine with me any day for heavy stone slingin
> 
> ...................and then there were 3
> 
> ...


Hey Jon, If your going to do a key fob shooter put a short sleeve on the tube where it meets the leather this will make the tubes last.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

shooter452 said:


> I still don't quite get it.....but I want to. I can still see the bruised area (healed completly) behind my knucke from trying to master Dgui's style. I've been trying Jax's style a little (but using a Joergesque stick shot so the mistakes don't hurt so much) I shoot 4 or 5 good shots and then get a glancing blow on the stick (guess I'm not flipping fast enough but I'm honestly not sure what is happening). Oh.....the fun of learning something new!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey 454, If your sticking it you have to have your timing down for the flip. I could never do it and really hit anything. But if your doing BareBack make sure the pouch is not straight up and down as in the traditional hold. Turn the pouch to the side and if you are right handed turn the pouch to the left so that your thumb nail is facing the sky this would be soft shooting to start off with and have your bands to be straight and level. Also have your fist with the looped band or tube around the middle finger and your fist positioned so that it looks ready to deliver a punch, knuckles will not be sticking up and the top of the hand will be leveled out. When soft shooting BareBack I like to pull the pouch so that I am almost kissing the pouch. If you have to have the pouch level then your l-bow will have to be out at a 45 degree angle but I dont do this I go head and shoot with the pouch pulled upward. This means that at the leaseas the pouch has to go over the forefinger. Save the Butterfly stuff till you get this low powered technique down. If you follow this method you cannot shoot your hand, it will go over the hand. Low power can be lots of fun anyway. This technique is not limited to BareBack shooting. I shoot this way with my forks. Hope this helps .


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## shooter452 (Nov 6, 2010)

dgui said:


> I still don't quite get it.....but I want to. I can still see the bruised area (healed completly) behind my knucke from trying to master Dgui's style. I've been trying Jax's style a little (but using a Joergesque stick shot so the mistakes don't hurt so much) I shoot 4 or 5 good shots and then get a glancing blow on the stick (guess I'm not flipping fast enough but I'm honestly not sure what is happening). Oh.....the fun of learning something new!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Hey 454, If your sticking it you have to have your timing down for the flip. I could never do it and really hit anything. But if your doing BareBack make sure the pouch is not straight up and down as in the traditional hold. Turn the pouch to the side and if you are right handed turn the pouch to the left so that your thumb nail is facing the sky this would be soft shooting to start off with and have your bands to be straight and level. Also have your fist with the looped band or tube around the middle finger and your fist positioned so that it looks ready to deliver a punch, knuckles will not be sticking up and the top of the hand will be leveled out. When soft shooting BareBack I like to pull the pouch so that I am almost kissing the pouch. If you have to have the pouch level then your l-bow will have to be out at a 45 degree angle but I dont do this I go head and shoot with the pouch pulled upward. This means that at the leaseas the pouch has to go over the forefinger. Save the Butterfly stuff till you get this low powered technique down. If you follow this method you cannot shoot your hand, it will go over the hand. Low power can be lots of fun anyway. This technique is not limited to BareBack shooting. I shoot this way with my forks. Hope this helps .
[/quote]

Thanks....I'll give it another go....but I have been holding the pouch as you suggest because I've watched your videos over and over. Do you ever shoot above your hand? (meaning at a target that is higher than your hand) I'm wandering if that has anthing to do with it?


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## Jax (Jan 8, 2011)

shooter452 said:


> I still don't quite get it.....but I want to. I can still see the bruised area (healed completly) behind my knucke from trying to master Dgui's style. I've been trying Jax's style a little (but using a Joergesque stick shot so the mistakes don't hurt so much) I shoot 4 or 5 good shots and then get a glancing blow on the stick (guess I'm not flipping fast enough but I'm honestly not sure what is happening). Oh.....the fun of learning something new!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


452 , I'm sorry to hear about your earlier misfortune. It's admirable you keep trying nevertheless.
What really helps to get a sufficient flip is drawing your bands to the max if they are lighter ones or until you can't draw them any further if they are that strong for you. In the second scenario your accuracy may suffer initially but it does'n matter at this stage. You're working on getting it done safely first.
When you draw that hard a lot of energy builds up between the stick and your hand holding it.
This forces the top of the stick to flip vigoriously upon release and the release itself should be initiated by that final thrust of the stick holding hand rather than just by only opening your fingers
holding the pouch.
You have to focus more on the stick hand than on the pouch hand and remember that the stick hand tells the pouch hand when to release.
I hope this helps.
Never give up.








Jacek


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## shooter452 (Nov 6, 2010)

Jax said:


> I still don't quite get it.....but I want to. I can still see the bruised area (healed completly) behind my knucke from trying to master Dgui's style. I've been trying Jax's style a little (but using a Joergesque stick shot so the mistakes don't hurt so much) I shoot 4 or 5 good shots and then get a glancing blow on the stick (guess I'm not flipping fast enough but I'm honestly not sure what is happening). Oh.....the fun of learning something new!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


452 , I'm sorry to hear about your earlier misfortune. It's admirable you keep trying nevertheless.
What really helps to get a sufficient flip is drawing your bands to the max if they are lighter ones or until you can't draw them any further if they are that strong for you. In the second scenario your accuracy may suffer initially but it does'n matter at this stage. You're working on getting it done safely first.
When you draw that hard a lot of energy builds up between the stick and your hand holding it.
This forces the top of the stick to flip vigoriously upon release and the release itself should be initiated by that final thrust of the stick holding hand rather than just by only opening your fingers
holding the pouch.
You have to focus more on the stick hand than on the pouch hand and remember that the stick hand tells the pouch hand when to release.
I hope this helps.
Never give up.








Jacek
[/quote]

Oh...I won't be giving up!!! Mostly because I am supreamly confident that learning these different styles is bound to make me a better shooter all around AND because I'm having so much fun with it!!!


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## Devoman (Oct 15, 2010)

OK JAX, I mean this with all due respect....that's crazy! I have never been on the edge of my seat like when you put that first arrow in the string and shot it. That could be one of those Americas got talent type things. It is cool, but not for me! I hope I don't hear you had a accident with that style. I see where it could be "handy" in some survival situations...lol


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Hey DevoMann, I prefer to call it being practical.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Devoman said:


> OK JAX, I mean this with all due respect....that's crazy! I have never been on the edge of my seat like when you put that first arrow in the string and shot it. That could be one of those Americas got talent type things. It is cool, but not for me! I hope I don't hear you had a accident with that style. I see where it could be "handy" in some survival situations...lol


I just saw that video. My heart was in my mouth and I yelped out loud when i saw him hook that short arrow to the bands.


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## Devoman (Oct 15, 2010)

dgui said:


> Hey DevoMann, I prefer to call it being practical.


Hey Dgui, To each his own, it is proven to work, I can see that, but I bet some one will have a problem with it. 
For me, I bet I would be one of those people...lol. So I will stay away from it, fork hits are bad enough.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Devoman said:


> Hey DevoMann, I prefer to call it being practical.


Hey Dgui, To each his own, it is proven to work, I can see that, but I bet some one will have a problem with it. 
For me, I bet I would be one of those people...lol. So I will stay away from it, fork hits are bad enough.
[/quote]

I catch DevoMann.


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## Jax (Jan 8, 2011)

My plans to post a nice detailed video about bare back shooting have been hampered by extra work load in my job and when I finally got three days off the weather at home was all but favourable.
High winds at -15 Centigrades really discourage from shooting bare back style but I managed to shoot some footage when the wind eased down for a while.
I used gloves for protection from frost and tubes which felt at this temperature really nasty cutting into my knuckles.
To make things worse Movie Maker on my computer crashed so I' m posting only one short clip to give you an idea about power of my 11 mm heavy tubes. I tried to use them on a regular natural slingshot but I just can't pull them back far enough without hurting my left wrist which was broken a long time ago but never fully recovered.
I can do it comfortably shooting bare back however. No strain on the wrist








In warmer temperatures my tubes are way more powerful but there's still plenty of power left in sub zero conditions.
http://www.youtube.c...h?v=g-RQ-x8czUg


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## pebble_launcher (Jan 26, 2012)

omg! jax style is giving me nightmares!!
i think i will never ever try this. glad to know my limit now. thanx

may intact hands always be with you
later then.


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## nutthrower (Dec 18, 2011)

still busting knuckles but would like to join the club of in my case "Knuckle Busters" ......or bare backs as it's called,

to stubborn to give up - I figure if I keep hitting my knuckle it will slowly get ground down and it will no

longer be in the way, then watch out ....... , maybe this is why my Dad always called me

Knucklehead.....


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Dayhiker said:


> Oh... this thread is about shooting a type of slingshot... got a little confused there for a second!


Well . . . so to speak.








[/quote]
yup


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## Alex Jacob (Jan 24, 2010)

I am so having a go at this! With a knuckle-guard that is...

Cheers for the nice, clear demos and explanations, Jax.


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## Alex Jacob (Jan 24, 2010)

Total revelation! Catty forks are superfluous to requirement!!

I first had a gentle go with a chunky padded glove, giving the pouch a twist and tweak as per the wisdom, then had a go with a straight un-tweaked draw and no problems... then a gardening glove and straight, full draw - still no problems. A good "knock" with the hand gets the knuckles out of the way nicely.

Seems to be quite accurate too.


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## pebble_launcher (Jan 26, 2012)

hi,

im kind of new to slingshots, especially bareback shooting.
thats why i want to get to know
peoples methods of shooting WITHOUT a frame:

ways of holding the bands or tubes,
prefered rubber types,
used ammo,
possible tweaks
everything else that is important about this in your eyes.

i use flatbands for this, not theraband but also acceptable latex-stuff. bands attached to two pouches(one of them is the ridiculously large and heavy pouch i smashed my finger with for three days ... but is only used to keep stuff in place, centered if you will, finally that peace of ******* is good for something), and a light small pouch.

left hand is held like a claw, indexfinger upward and as much to the right as possible, the thumb just as far right as possible (ill show a photo), this forms the "natural fork". i usually give the ammo a quarter turn. Band goes over the Knuckle of the thumb, for i can pull stronger bands that way (reduces leverage, i hope that is the right word). the other band goes right below the FIRST joint of the index finger.

most scary for me so far is jax´s way of doing it. soooo affraid to wrack my knuckles!
id be happy to read your thoughts..
most cool way ive seen so far is for one dgui´s "tube tied to a keyring method" and one scary chinese guy from which i got the "claw hand" idea. he shoots darts with this.








they both share first place of my favorite list, hehe.

im very interestet in how you guys do it, so if you like to describe your technics of bareback i, and certainly a lot of other "sling nuts" would be happy to learn about your experience.


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## WILD BILL (Jan 26, 2012)

Way cool! When I first saw the post it brought back memories of bareback horse riding shooting my longbow.I am going to try one day after my thumb quits hunting from a thumbnail strike while fitting my small antler. I placed my thumb between the forks and did not get it out of the way.( I had the bright idea of using the tip of my thumb as a sight) I only did this once. What a dummy!


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