# The Moorhammer vs. The "W": My discussion with Joerg Sprave



## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

At the slingshot channel's forum, I had an argument with Joerg Sprave about the "W" design, pointed out to him by Bill Herriman. At 1st he said that his latest designs, The Rambone and The Moorhammer both outperformed the "W" and had even less wrist strain, mentioning as relevant factors 1) an ergonomic handle 2) a low fork. He said he could pull hard bands with them more easily. He got quite mad at me for questioning him on the subject. After some discussion he said that the Rambone didn't perform as well as the Moorhammer and had a higher fork, so we focused just on the Moorhammer, though he didn't have any Chrony comparisons.









I've never owned a Moorhammer, but in my own tests where I compared a very low fork "Y" frame I made (just a flat plank of steel w/2 small eyebolts as fork and a bolted hammer handle); when I simply added a square around it (adding another plank at the bottom, 2 longer eyebolts and a bolt through the handle to connect both planks ), it made it easier to pull the bands. I asked 2 friends to try it and they both agreed. Then I took out the top plank, arriving at the "w" shape, and the pull was made even easier, as in the following "easy to hard" diagram.









Recently I E-mailed a College Professor in Mechanical engineering to ask him why I felt this, though I'm still waiting for a response. Is it that the human hand will resist the force of the pull through the structures that offer the most structural strength, be they at the top or bottom of the slingshot? Is it that stronger structures attract the pulling force? Those are my guesses but I need the opinion of an engineer. Does anybody know?

In looking for signs of strain comparing Sprave's pulling of hard bands visually, I browsed through some of his videos and couldn't find the Moorhammer pulling the same double theraband black that he had pulled in his "how to" video on the "W" slingshot. However, I found something that seems to me quite close. In the video "Three unique slingshots: Beauty, Powerhouse, Micro"






"the shield" looks remarkably close to the Moorhammer, with a similar low fork and ergonomic handle. In the video, Sprave says that he's pulling "28cm" of double layered full length theraband black. He also says that the "Shield" is meant to pull his heaviest bands. In that video he is also aided by what appears to be a 4 inch plus notch to add stability, a lanyard around his wrist, and a mechanical release. In his "how to" "W" video, he says that the double layers of full length theraband black are 25 cm.






Notice that the "W" he shoots is wider than the "Shield", so that the slack is taken out earlier in the pull. Also, a 25cm band has the slack taken out earlier than a 28cm one. My guess would then be that the pulling of those 25cm should not be easier than the 28, yet he pulls without requiring the mechanical release or the notch/lanyard. Furthermore, examining the body posture for signs of strain, its seems to me that Sprave shows less shooting the "W" than the "Shield". You be the judge:


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Cross posted from the vendors forum:

Shockley,

I'm going to give you a couple of words of advice... Number one, Bill "Tex" Herriman is the originator of the W design and number two if you want to increase your sales quite substantially you need to understand three things and then correct them.

First, force is force... on your website you are correct in your thoughts that where the forks are attached is the point of most stress on this design... BUT what you don't seem to account for is that the fork arms are very long and torque/force against the base is far more than that on a standard low forked more traditional slingshot's... in other words, you have a greater chance of stress fracture in aluminum when a longer lever is acting against it than you do if you were using a shorter lever...

Second, there is absolutely no difference in the force that is applied to the slingshot holding hand or wrist... ANY difference you may perceive is either an optical or a psychological difference... the actual stress against the hand and wrist is precisely the same... except for the fact your frame is heavier and more cumbersome than most smaller more traditional shaped frames.

Third, there is a psychological component to shooting the W frame that makes many people extremely uncomfortable shooting it... mainly the fact there is no hand protection and the feeling that you may get a hand hit is very prevalent <<<<<< THIS we can solve very easily and at the same time make your frame truly more stable, by simply installing a beavertail at the top of your grip. In your case you could probably use a simple slightly curved metal strap screwed into the top of your grip.

A beavertail will do two major things for you... first it offers protection to the hand against shots that may go awry and second the very nature of spreading the load force over a greater area at the top of the grip allows for a much more controllable frame.

In my opinion, if you simply address those issues... you may be on to something here. Because it is obvious that you have a flair for marketing concepts and so forth.

Good luck with it all Man!

Also, I guess I should show you what I mean by a beavertail... in the picture below, the part that extends over the thumb web is the beavertail:


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## squirrel squasher (May 17, 2013)

words of wisdom Bill!


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## squirrel squasher (May 17, 2013)

also bands produce power not the frame. a w and a moorhammer with the same bands with have results within a few fps. but one might be moor comfortable because of the shape. personaly I would pick a moor hammer because it has been deseigned heavily for comfort in comparison to a dowel.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Guys, we don't discuss what happened on other sites here.

I realize the OP opened the door himself, but let's close it now.


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