# Tubes vs Flats, A Thought !



## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Most folks agree that flats are more effecient than tubes and in general are lighter to pull back to get the same or better velocity than tubes.

A couple of tubes that I like and get very good speed are 3050, and Dub Dub green and orange. All three of these have one thing in common, they have a thin wall (as compared to other tubes and have a bigger OD).

What if you were have, as an example a 5mm diameter tube with .65/.70mm wall ? That would give a total circumference of over 31mm for a looped tube set up and a thin wall of .65ish mm ----- matchin a straight cut band in speed and easy pulling ?

The advantage would be you have no sides to cut or wear like flats, making tubes closer to straight cut flats speed wise. Along with this it would make it easier to make internal psudo tapers, and like mentioned above easier to pull to get speed like a band/flat.

Of course I'm using 5mm OD as starting point, a 4.5mm .65 wall looped tube may be great 

I plan on buying some #402 ((1.8 ID x 1/32 wall x 3/16 OD) and seeing what happens. I would love for the speed to be above my expectations.

wll


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Than there are some of us that just prefer tubes for their longevity and easy to make tube sets. Plus easy changes from 16/36 to 20/40 and 17/45.

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## Island made (Aug 14, 2019)

Let us know what you find out, the only thing I think your gonna find will slow it down a bit more than a flat band with the same amount of rubber is the fact that with tubes you have air trapped inside between the ties, Effects it especially in the cold. A while ago i experimented with trying to overcome this when I really wanted to like tubes, I tried cutting the tubes lengthwise (basically opening them up) as well as clamping them down flat as I tied them on to the pouch and fork (in hopes to get most of the air from them. Both of those resulted in slightly better speeds.

But now, being perfectly honest I get more shots from flats than I do with tubes. I still shoot tubes on my Chinese shooters and my sps, but I don't get the shots from them I do with flats now.

I'm looking forward to see what you find out with this new tubing your trying!!


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

I did order some #402, so we will see how it does ?

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

For my first test I took some 1/32 thin walled 5/16 OD tubing to give that a try this weekend to see how it performs.. They are cut 6.75" active length with my 32+" draw. The circumference is .98, so it is like using a 1" flat. The .031 wall equates to a .78mm thick flat, a bit thicker than many flats but still in the ball park. It is easy to pull back and is quite snappy. I will try it out with 3/8" steel and then some heavier stuff. I'm interested to see how it holds up as Green Dub and Orange Dub are very fast but don't hold up like my thicker walled tubes.










wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

The #402 is suppose to arrive today ;- ) So now I will be able to test it out this weekend right along side the thin walled 5/16" OD single to see which one is faster and better suited for 3/8" steel. The looped #402 should do better as the circumference of the looped is greater than the single larger tube yet having the same .031 wall thickness, but we will see ?

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Just put together a looped band set with the 3/16" OD 1/32 wall and it does feel pretty darn snappy. I do think it will shoot the 3/8" steel faster than the thin walled 5/16" single tube.Both tubes have a active length of ~7 inches so we will see ;- )

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Well I took out both slings today and gave them a test with 5/16" steel and 3/8" steel. The 5/16" single tube was OK but did not really have the zip of the looped 3/16" and the diameter being big just felt a bit sloppy with the thin wall. I shot early in the am and as it warmed up a bit speed did seem to increase with both tubes sets.

I shot from exactly 30 yards out with both. The looped 3/16" had a bit of finger slap with 5/16" steel and as you would expect sent them at a good clip, the 3/8" steel was a bit slower but not by much. Yes the 3/8" would be fine for head shots at rabbits/squirrels and knock starlings for a loop for sure and could be a good Feral Pigeon set up for up to 30 yards. Both tubes are smooth pulling back but being the looped 3/16" OD tubes have a bit more surface area they have a bit more zip.

Here is a pic of the sling with looped 3/16" OD x .031 wall tubes. After the pic was taken I put these tubes on another wire sling that is just a bit bigger. (This is a wire sling from China that is a bit smaller than my usual Cheapo slings I use). I'll be going out tomorrow to shoot some more and show a pic of that sling when I post.

Even though the 3/8" are flying good and easy to pull, they are not screaming out like when I use a single tube Green Dub, looped 1842's or 3050. These .031 looped tubes are a pretty nice balance of easy draw weight and power, I like them.

I shot this tube set against a single 2040 and a single .045 walled tube and these looped out performed them as expected, it will be interesting to see how well the .031 wall tubes hold up, If I can get a good amount of shots and after some more testing this could be a nice light hunting set up ;- )










wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Went out again today shooting 5/16" and 3/8" steel. Used my 2nd Gen ergo Cheapo and 3/16OD x .031 wall looped tubes #402. These tubes pull very nicely but have more poop than single 2040, 1842 for sure. One thing curious was I kept shooting lower than usual and this may be to the fact the fork gap is wider putting the center of the shot a bit lower. My shots were in general about 6-8 inches lower than usual.

When pulled to 500% these tubes can send small ammo at a very nice clip, but I don't think they can match a flat of the same width ? My 1842 or ? looped tubes are faster at the expense of being heavier to pull back. I'm guessing at my draw the 5/16 are going out in the 235+ fps area, maybe faster, compare the weight and velocity of that to a Daisy BB gun (Red Ryder type) that is shooting a 5gr BB at about 250ish fps if your lucky with today's under powered guns compared to 40 years ago and a Mod #25 getting in the 300's (today's Mod #25's are not as powerful as the ones from back in the day is my understanding). So I'm getting about 3.8 fpe as compared to my BB gun at .69 fpe. I do remember how effective my old BB gun was taking care of HOSP, Starlings and the like, This makes it pretty useful for small pests. Using a 3/8" at 200 fps gives me ~ 4.8fpe. Not to bad for a light pulling sling. Of course using my regular 1842 or .043 walled 3/16OD tubes really send 3/8" very fast.

Here is a pick of the Gen 2 Cheapo with the thin walled looped tubes on her.










wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Went out yesterday and shot a bit, was doing pretty good, but still not getting the kind of speed I'm use to ... Oh, they were fly good and fast, fast enough for the stuff I would go after and the pull weight is great, but something is lacking !!!

I just took the thin walled tubes off today one of the Gen 2 Cheapo slings and replaced them with 1842, just to see if the low shots were a cause of the velocity being lower. Now I shot a lot yesterday, mostly with 5/16" steel using the .031 thin wall looped tubes and they flew well, but for some reason I'm not really super happy after using these tubes for about a week +

I still have a Gen 2 Cheapo with .031 walled tubes on it for 5/16" steel to do some more testing, although I feel the .031 thin wall is fine for hunting small pest bird stuff, but the shooting low thing has me wondering. I know the 1842 will send the 3/8" steel out at warp speed but want to see if the Gen 2 sling is shooting low using 1842.

Below is a pic of a Gen 2 Cheapo with 1842 looped tubes and a 3/8" steel ball in a micro fiber pouch.










wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Just got back from shooting the 1842 tubes with 3/8" steel ...... tosay it went faster is an inderstatement, shots were not going low and that ball hit with authority for sure.

The 5/16" flew great but 1842's are overkill for sure.

Shot the .031 thin wall with 5/16" steel and they flew ok today because it was a bit warmer, but i think I may change to looped 2040's, we will see.

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

wll said:


> Just got back from shooting the 1842 tubes with 3/8" steel ...... to say it went faster is an understatement, shots were not going low and that ball hit with authority for sure.
> 
> The 5/16" flew great but 1842's are overkill for sure.
> 
> ...


Just changed the thin wall tube for 2040, will go out again shooting 5/16" steel, hoping it has a bit more speed then the thin wall. Just coated all tubes with #303 also, as it preserves the rubber and keeps it supple.

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

wll said:


> wll said:
> 
> 
> > Just got back from shooting the 1842 tubes with 3/8" steel ...... to say it went faster is an understatement, shots were not going low and that ball hit with authority for sure.
> ...


I just got back from shooting 5//16 and 3/8 steel with 2040 looped tubes. This stuff is absolutely fantastic with 5/16 .... the ammo is jet powered, way, way better than the thin wall tubes. Shooting 3/8 steel is darn good also.

The 1842 seems faster but it is close, if I was out hunting using 3/8 steel I would probable stick with 1842 just because it may have longer tube life. 5/16 steel is to light for 1842 I feel.

If I had a pocket full of 5/16 and 3/8 steel I would opt for 2040. The thin wall stuff is now for cuffs or ?, glad I did not buy much of it !!!!

I'm very, very impressed with 2040 .... Great stuff.

wll


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

20/40 is what I mainly use.

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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Cjw said:


> 20/40 is what I mainly use.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


For 5/16 and 3/8 Steel ?

wll


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## Thwap (Oct 17, 2018)

thanks for the info! 
honestly there's not much you cant do looped 2040, then looped 1842 for heavy stuff. i draw them till they stop, so they dont last, but they are easy to make, easy to carry, and easy to snap a new set into the frame. 
i dont use them much below 65 or so degrees bc they tend to get sluggish and deliver enormous pain from finger hits. i think the stiffness of the colder tube makes it come straight back to my knuckles. 
i just tried 1636 looped full butterfly and its faaaast with 5g marbles, even at 65 degrees. 
one reason to like the heat here is that at 114 degrees, looped 2040s make serious power/speed.


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