# Hathcock (HTS) setup with tubes in TTF?



## Clever Moniker

Okay guys, outside of having a cheep tube shooter from the hardware store... I don't know much about setting them up. How the heck do I set these up on the HTS for TTF?

Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## LVO

Try it like this. Works great


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## Clever Moniker

For some reason I was thinking it was way more complex... Shoot me now.


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## LVO

.. tucking it in the leather tubing will add hours of shooting fun. Or we could get Rube Goldberg to design a setup for you!


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## Bill Hays

Hey CM... that's one way to do it... another is to send an email to my Wife at [email protected] and give her your address so I can send you one of my prototypes that has a regular slotted hole for snapping in the looped tubes.

I normally just give away my prototypes after shooting them a while and working out the kinks... and as it so happens, I just happen to have a couple that can go out right now.


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## LVO

Bill Hays said:


> Hey CM... that's one way to do it... another is to send an email to my Wife at [email protected] and give her your address so I can send you one of my prototypes that has a regular slotted hole for snapping in the looped tubes.
> I normally just give away my prototypes after shooting them a while and working out the kinks... and as it so happens, I just happen to have a couple that can go out right now.


Gotta love Bill and his problem solving skills! Awesome offer, my friend!


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## moongalba

For single tubes I have been plugging the tubes and have never had one come loose or break. I use these two every day.

Moongalba


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## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Hey CM... that's one way to do it... another is to send an email to my Wife at [email protected] and give her your address so I can send you one of my prototypes that has a regular slotted hole for snapping in the looped tubes.
> 
> I normally just give away my prototypes after shooting them a while and working out the kinks... and as it so happens, I just happen to have a couple that can go out right now.


That is the nicest offer I have received on this forum, bottom line...  I'm going to shoot you a quick pm.


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## Clever Moniker

I just ordered tubes on Fri from Simple-Shot but I'm super impatient... So I picked these up from the hardware store. First thing I did was replace the mega crappy pouch, to a SuperSure pouch. I noticed these are no where near as accurate as with tbg. Do I just need to practice more or does the tube quality matter too? This will be the first time using tubes in forever.

View attachment 44135


View attachment 44134


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## SmilingFury

Looped thin chinese tubes work much much better than those really thick tubes. If I am not mistaken, the thin ones are faster too. Henry in panama has done a ton of research on them and it is pretty interesting reading in the tubes and bands section. Looped tubes will give you plenty of hunting level power as well.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Of my 2 HTS the second one is semi permanently set up with looped 30/60's.

Tied off after a heck of stretch really close to the forks, then with O rings not restricting the stretching, but merely keeping the 2,looped tubes together to the pouch tie off point.

I have found at my normal 7 inch for double .04 latex; that at a bit under 6 and a half inches, to the same 45 inch draw length.
The additional percentage stretch yields me identical ballistics to the faster latex.

This works for me, but may not work for others, okay.

Cheers Allan


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## treefork

I have and tried those Marksman Tubes. Not in the same class as TBG. The problem is the air space inside the tube and the rubber composition. When in full draw the air is not uniformly distributed and compressed. You need to drain the air out and then attach to frame , What you end up with is tubes that look like a flat band. They will perform much better.These Marksman tubes perform poorly in cold weather. Use flats in the cold weather. Good luck


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Oh, regarding my set up for tubes.

I was uncertain myself like you at first.
So I PM' d the man himself afterseeing his set up in one of his hunting snap shots ( for a scrub turkey he got from vague memory).

Consequently my set up I think reflects fairly closely what I saw Mr.Hays uses himself, and any errors aremy responsibility entirely.

Cheers Allan


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## Clever Moniker

Thanks guys for the help guys.



treefork said:


> I have and tried those Marksman Tubes. Not in the same class as TBG. The problem is the air space inside the tube and the rubber composition. When in full draw the air is not uniformly distributed and compressed. You need to drain the air out and then attach to frame , What you end up with is tubes that look like a flat band. They will perform much better.These Marksman tubes perform poorly in cold weather. Use flats in the cold weather. Good luck


My goodness Treefork, you were spot on when you said they shoot bad in cold weather!!! Never again. They just came off as fast as they come on. lol

Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## moongalba

Yes Treefork was right regarding bad performance of tubes in cold weather. If you know a little about physics you would have realized this. Take a kettle of cold water, the water is still and placid. Put the kettle on the heated stove and the molecules begin to become agitated. We call that agitation boiling water when in fact it is the molecules dancing a merry jig. The same principle is an action that is applied to most objects. I have no problem here in Queensland, the warmth allows the molecules to caress over each other in a fond embrace yet never letting go.


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## Clever Moniker

moongalba said:


> Yes Treefork was right regarding bad performance of tubes in cold weather. If you know a little about physics you would have realized this. Take a kettle of cold water, the water is still and placid. Put the kettle on the heated stove and the molecules begin to become agitated. We call that agitation boiling water when in fact it is the molecules dancing a merry jig. The same principle is an action that is applied to most objects. I have no problem here in Queensland, the warmth allows the molecules to caress over each other in a fond embrace yet never letting go.


I know nothing when it comes to the science aspect yet. All I know is that nothing was consistent at 33ft which is very strange.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Ah CM, go the looped 30/60's.

At least as much zing as double TBG, for the same % stretch; frovided you draw around 5 % longer, or shorten the relaxed length.

Not too hard to figure it out with a bit of a play around though.

Cheers Allan


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## Clever Moniker

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> Ah CM, go the looped 30/60's.
> 
> At least as much zing as double TBG, for the same % stretch; frovided you draw around 5 % longer, or shorten the relaxed length.
> 
> Not too hard to figure it out with a bit of a play around though.
> 
> Cheers Allan


Okay, the reason I posted this in the noob section is because I AM a noob Allan. lol I need help here man, what the heck are 30/60's and where do I get em. Do they connect the same way I connected these tubes?


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## SmilingFury

Clever Moniker said:


> Aussie Allan In Thailand said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah CM, go the looped 30/60's.
> At least as much zing as double TBG, for the same % stretch; frovided you draw around 5 % longer, or shorten the relaxed length.
> Not too hard to figure it out with a bit of a play around though.
> Cheers Allan
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, the reason I posted this in the noob section is because I AM a noob Allan. lol I need help here man, what the heck are 30/60's and where do I get em. Do they connect the same way I connected these tubes?
Click to expand...

Ok CM, whenever you hear a kind of rubber tubing described with a 4 digit number the first two are the inner diameter of the tube and the second two are the outer diameter. So 1745 tubing is about 1.7 mm inner dia. And 4.5mm outer dia.

So now looking at 2040 tubing you know the diameters and have an idea of how thick the tubing is as well. Allan refers to 3060 which is a larger diameter type of tubing but is also 3mm thick. This is why 2040 has a lighter draw than 1745 for example even though it is lower numerically. Don't feel bad, this puzzled me for soooooooo long until I stumbled onto the description I just shared with you. It made for rather confusing reading for a while.lol

Hope this helped,
SF


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## Clever Moniker

SmilingFury said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Aussie Allan In Thailand said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah CM, go the looped 30/60's.
> At least as much zing as double TBG, for the same % stretch; frovided you draw around 5 % longer, or shorten the relaxed length.
> Not too hard to figure it out with a bit of a play around though.
> Cheers Allan
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, the reason I posted this in the noob section is because I AM a noob Allan. lol I need help here man, what the heck are 30/60's and where do I get em. Do they connect the same way I connected these tubes?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Ok CM, whenever you hear a kind of rubber tubing described with a 4 digit number the first two are the inner diameter of the tube and the second two are the outer diameter. So 1745 tubing is about 1.7 mm inner dia. And 4.5mm outer dia.
> 
> So now looking at 2040 tubing you know the diameters and have an idea of how thick the tubing is as well. Allan refers to 3060 which is a larger diameter type of tubing but is also 3mm thick. This is why 2040 has a lighter draw than 1745 for example even though it is lower numerically. Don't feel bad, this puzzled me for soooooooo long until I stumbled onto the description I just shared with you. It made for rather confusing reading for a while.lol
> 
> Hope this helped,
> SF
Click to expand...

I think you may have just blew my mind!  Thanks man! Where does one get tubes though?


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## LVO

I bought 10 meters of 1842 for $16 from trulytexas.com
Got it in 2 days. Great service


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Sorry 30/60's refer to Dankung tubes, 30 then 60.

They also have 20 40 ; 40 70; 18 45(light thin, but fast for light ammo); the numbers refer to inner and outer diameter and thickness.

Sorry for my arrogence and ignorance there Sir.

Any assistance I can give I gladly give freely; and I freely accept and acknowledge from time to time I need to be pulled into line.

Therefore no problem, and actually appreciated.

Cheers Allan


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## SuperMonkeySlinger

Are ya giving up on theraband Mr. Moniker?

Lol ever since your wife joined the forum ive been calling you Mr. Moniker


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## SmilingFury

CM,

There are two chinese vendors and also tex tubes that you can buy. They are not hard to find. I have not bought from tex but he gets good reviews. Dankung and fineslingshot are the chinese ones. You can choose which you like. I like to support the vendors that support us personally. But that is your choice.

Be well,
SF


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## Clever Moniker

Haven't given up on tubes or the idea of using thera-tube. I have defiantly given up on those Marksman tubes though!

I have in the mail some latex dipped tubing coming from Simple-Shot. When that arrives I'll be able to give that a go and see how they perform. I don't understand all the different kinds though and their purpose.

I have heard of:

"Looped Tubes"

"Partial Tubes"

"Single Tubes"

"Double Tubes"

I don't believe I can set-up the first 2 based on the Hathcock. However, the second 2 I can (I think) but setting them up the same way as the Marksman tubes I had bought.


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## SmilingFury

Clever Moniker said:


> Haven't given up on tubes or the idea of using thera-tube. I have defiantly given up on those Marksman tubes though!
> 
> I have in the mail some latex dipped tubing coming from Simple-Shot. When that arrives I'll be able to give that a go and see how they perform. I don't understand all the different kinds though and their purpose.
> 
> I have heard of:
> 
> "Looped Tubes"
> "Partial Tubes"
> "Single Tubes"
> "Double Tubes"
> 
> I don't believe I can set-up the first 2 based on the Hathcock. However, the second 2 I can (I think) but setting them up the same way as the Marksman tubes I had bought.


Looped tubes are looped at the fork and tied at the pouch( two tube power per side)
Partial or pseudo tapered tubes is what henry in panama wrote about in his thread of tube research. Basically a loop tied half way to the pouch and a single tube from there to the pouch.(doube power for half the distance to the pouch and single from there on)
Single tubes are ... Single tubes. Lol 
Double tubes can be looped tubes or just doubled at the fork and tied like your bands. I read a thread MJ wrote about a method where he would pull the end of looped tubes thru another larger diameter piece of tube (like the pfs guys do to protect the tubing from rubbing on the top of their frames) and then tying it on to the frame (whether ott or ttf) at the protective piece. I think the thread was called MJ tubes. 
I don't have any of Bill hays' forks so I am not familiar with the exact tips he makes, but I have seen pictures and he makes several different tips for bands and tubes, be it TTF or quick change tips for looped tubes. I know the man is busy but I am sure he can clear up what I don't know about his fork tips for you. Also you can check out his gallery at pocket predator and see all the different ones he has made better than I can describe them.

Hope this helped,
SF


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## Clever Moniker

SmilingFury said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't given up on tubes or the idea of using thera-tube. I have defiantly given up on those Marksman tubes though!
> 
> I have in the mail some latex dipped tubing coming from Simple-Shot. When that arrives I'll be able to give that a go and see how they perform. I don't understand all the different kinds though and their purpose.
> 
> I have heard of:
> 
> "Looped Tubes"
> "Partial Tubes"
> "Single Tubes"
> "Double Tubes"
> 
> I don't believe I can set-up the first 2 based on the Hathcock. However, the second 2 I can (I think) but setting them up the same way as the Marksman tubes I had bought.
> 
> 
> 
> Looped tubes are looped at the fork and tied at the pouch( two tube power per side)
> Partial or pseudo tapered tubes is what henry in panama wrote about in his thread of tube research. Basically a loop tied half way to the pouch and a single tube from there to the pouch.(doube power for half the distance to the pouch and single from there on)
> Single tubes are ... Single tubes. Lol
> Double tubes can be looped tubes or just doubled at the fork and tied like your bands. I read a thread MJ wrote about a method where he would pull the end of looped tubes thru another larger diameter piece of tube (like the pfs guys do to protect the tubing from rubbing on the top of their frames) and then tying it on to the frame (whether ott or ttf) at the protective piece. I think the thread was called MJ tubes.
> I don't have any of Bill hays' forks so I am not familiar with the exact tips he makes, but I have seen pictures and he makes several different tips for bands and tubes, be it TTF or quick change tips for looped tubes. I know the man is busy but I am sure he can clear up what I don't know about his fork tips for you. Also you can check out his gallery at pocket predator and see all the different ones he has made better than I can describe them.
> 
> Hope this helped,
> SF
Click to expand...

It has helped quite a bit.

Do you know the various purposes of each?


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## SmilingFury

Clever Moniker said:


> SmilingFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't given up on tubes or the idea of using thera-tube. I have defiantly given up on those Marksman tubes though!
> I have in the mail some latex dipped tubing coming from Simple-Shot. When that arrives I'll be able to give that a go and see how they perform. I don't understand all the different kinds though and their purpose.
> I have heard of:
> "Looped Tubes"
> "Partial Tubes"
> "Single Tubes"
> "Double Tubes"
> I don't believe I can set-up the first 2 based on the Hathcock. However, the second 2 I can (I think) but setting them up the same way as the Marksman tubes I had bought.
> 
> 
> 
> Looped tubes are looped at the fork and tied at the pouch( two tube power per side)
> Partial or pseudo tapered tubes is what henry in panama wrote about in his thread of tube research. Basically a loop tied half way to the pouch and a single tube from there to the pouch.(doube power for half the distance to the pouch and single from there on)
> Single tubes are ... Single tubes. Lol
> Double tubes can be looped tubes or just doubled at the fork and tied like your bands. I read a thread MJ wrote about a method where he would pull the end of looped tubes thru another larger diameter piece of tube (like the pfs guys do to protect the tubing from rubbing on the top of their frames) and then tying it on to the frame (whether ott or ttf) at the protective piece. I think the thread was called MJ tubes.
> I don't have any of Bill hays' forks so I am not familiar with the exact tips he makes, but I have seen pictures and he makes several different tips for bands and tubes, be it TTF or quick change tips for looped tubes. I know the man is busy but I am sure he can clear up what I don't know about his fork tips for you. Also you can check out his gallery at pocket predator and see all the different ones he has made better than I can describe them.
> Hope this helped,
> SF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has helped quite a bit.
> 
> Do you know the various purposes of each?
Click to expand...

All of these have been used for target and hunting. There are varying opinions on the appropriate strength vs ammo weight vs draw weight. Some say that for light ammo, singles are sufficient for hunting, some say it is not strong enough. Doubled or looped tubes can feel heavy on the draw while not giving a proportional benefit in ammo speed. The partial or pseudo tapers are said to offer as light a draw with as hard a hit out of one's ammo one can get(at that draw weight). 
Personally, I feel if i am to use doubled or looped tubes I either adjust to the draw weight (ammo weight and my arm) or i can vary the tube. I think looped 1745 or 1842 offer abundant hunting power. There are many that say the thinner 2040 gives just as much power with a lighter draw ( or slightly less power, it really is ammo specific). 
Look, you seem like a well read guy, read Henry in panama's thread under testing chinese tubes here. It is long but full of info. He has a few tables of info that should answer what you need.

As for my opinion, from what i have read about how you use your shooter, I would just go with looped tubes. For me the effort behind pseudo tapers and their tying is not worth the draw weight I save. If looped 1745 or 1842 feel too heavy , go with looped 2040. Many people swear by them. These people are among the best shots on this forum. So read henry's thread and also check out MJ tubes as a thread search topic. That one has the way on tying doubled tubes without going thru the fork itself. A little searching on here and you can find all the answers you are looking for. 
Good luck,
SF


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## treefork

In the end your going to settle back to flats attached outside the forks. That's were the HTS really shines. ( Flat tapers)


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## Clever Moniker

SmilingFury said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmilingFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Haven't given up on tubes or the idea of using thera-tube. I have defiantly given up on those Marksman tubes though!
> I have in the mail some latex dipped tubing coming from Simple-Shot. When that arrives I'll be able to give that a go and see how they perform. I don't understand all the different kinds though and their purpose.
> I have heard of:
> "Looped Tubes"
> "Partial Tubes"
> "Single Tubes"
> "Double Tubes"
> I don't believe I can set-up the first 2 based on the Hathcock. However, the second 2 I can (I think) but setting them up the same way as the Marksman tubes I had bought.
> 
> 
> 
> Looped tubes are looped at the fork and tied at the pouch( two tube power per side)
> Partial or pseudo tapered tubes is what henry in panama wrote about in his thread of tube research. Basically a loop tied half way to the pouch and a single tube from there to the pouch.(doube power for half the distance to the pouch and single from there on)
> Single tubes are ... Single tubes. Lol
> Double tubes can be looped tubes or just doubled at the fork and tied like your bands. I read a thread MJ wrote about a method where he would pull the end of looped tubes thru another larger diameter piece of tube (like the pfs guys do to protect the tubing from rubbing on the top of their frames) and then tying it on to the frame (whether ott or ttf) at the protective piece. I think the thread was called MJ tubes.
> I don't have any of Bill hays' forks so I am not familiar with the exact tips he makes, but I have seen pictures and he makes several different tips for bands and tubes, be it TTF or quick change tips for looped tubes. I know the man is busy but I am sure he can clear up what I don't know about his fork tips for you. Also you can check out his gallery at pocket predator and see all the different ones he has made better than I can describe them.
> Hope this helped,
> SF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It has helped quite a bit.
> 
> Do you know the various purposes of each?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All of these have been used for target and hunting. There are varying opinions on the appropriate strength vs ammo weight vs draw weight. Some say that for light ammo, singles are sufficient for hunting, some say it is not strong enough. Doubled or looped tubes can feel heavy on the draw while not giving a proportional benefit in ammo speed. The partial or pseudo tapers are said to offer as light a draw with as hard a hit out of one's ammo one can get(at that draw weight).
> Personally, I feel if i am to use doubled or looped tubes I either adjust to the draw weight (ammo weight and my arm) or i can vary the tube. I think looped 1745 or 1842 offer abundant hunting power. There are many that say the thinner 2040 gives just as much power with a lighter draw ( or slightly less power, it really is ammo specific).
> Look, you seem like a well read guy, read Henry in panama's thread under testing chinese tubes here. It is long but full of info. He has a few tables of info that should answer what you need.
> 
> As for my opinion, from what i have read about how you use your shooter, I would just go with looped tubes. For me the effort behind pseudo tapers and their tying is not worth the draw weight I save. If looped 1745 or 1842 feel too heavy , go with looped 2040. Many people swear by them. These people are among the best shots on this forum. So read henry's thread and also check out MJ tubes as a thread search topic. That one has the way on tying doubled tubes without going thru the fork itself. A little searching on here and you can find all the answers you are looking for.
> Good luck,
> SF
Click to expand...

Thanks for your time SF. I did search, but when I did... I searched specifically under "hathcock and tubes", I came up with nothing. lol You're correct, for tubes themselves, there will probably be quit a bit of information I can search. I will check out what you have suggested. 



treefork said:


> In the end your going to settle back to flats attached outside the forks. That's were the HTS really shines. ( Flat tapers)


I think you're correct, however... I only have an HTS and a natural. The HTS comes naturally for me to shoot, and I have to work hard using my natural for it takes more effort for me to learn (I'm stubborn). I digress, for what I am trying to do, I think I need tubes... I can't use my natural, and that leaves the HTS which you are right, works best for me with tbg... so for now, I'm stuck until the lovely offer of Bill's comes in.

Thanks for all the help guys,

Clever Moniker


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## Bill Hays

Yeah, there's a reason I use flatbands... You know I can use anything I want but the flatbands just "feel" better. I can shoot fairly well with tube setups and have even made some that rival the best of the best flatband shooting slingshots... but I just LIKE flatbands more.


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## phil

Bill Hays said:


> Hey CM... that's one way to do it... another is to send an email to my Wife at [email protected] and give her your address so I can send you one of my prototypes that has a regular slotted hole for snapping in the looped tubes.
> I normally just give away my prototypes after shooting them a while and working out the kinks... and as it so happens, I just happen to have a couple that can go out right now.


Wish you lived a little closer Bill I would love one of your prototypes LOL only kidding buddy .


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