# UK Law



## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

This is an article I found on another forum.

It was a reply to a letter sent to DEFRA (Department for Environment Food & Rural Affairs) in March 2010

"

Under Sections 5 and 11 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 it is an offence to use for the purpose of killing, or taking any wild bird or animal, any bow or crossbow. It is also an offence to knowingly cause or permit to be done, such an act.

In addition, under the Protection of Wild Mammals Act 1996, it is an offence to (amongst other things) stab or impale any wild mammal with intent to inflict unnecessary cruelty, unless it is the killing in a reasonably swift and humane manner of any such wild mammal which has been injured or taken in the course of lawful shooting, hunting, coursing or pest control.

Christiana Purnell

Customer Contact Unit

Defra

"

Basically NO to any kind of bow but it does NOT restrict the use of an arrow to kill as long as it is done humanely.

lawful = (You need to have permission)

So from this date onwards I will refer to any form of sling bow as a catapult so as to stay within the UK laws.

It basically prevents me using the wrong words/phrases when some stupid, all knowing, young, know it all, copper tries to arrest me. :rofl:

I will do more research on any amendments since that date and post them here.


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## BCLuxor (Aug 24, 2010)

They would just get you on carrying some kind of offensive weapon... Whole thing is some huge grey area.. Do you take game with sling bow? I would be mighty careful doing so on non private land


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

I'm afraid to tell you having an arrow in a public place is an offence i.e it's an offence to have any pointed article in a public place and that would definitely include arrows,so be careful.

BTW When I was into archery it was ok to convey equipment to and from club and competition venues but nowhere else i.e you have to have lawful excuse to carry arrows carrying them to go hunting isn't one especially if your going through public places.


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

British (and increasingly European) law on self-defence, and carrying the means for this, is becoming ludicrous and hysterical.

Things were much more sensible some years ago. I recall asking a local copper whether my swordstick collection counted as offensive weapons if carried outside. He said "well luv...if you stab someone with it then yes...and if you don't then no."

Similarly when I had my jewellers' shops years ago I asked the local plod whether it was OK to add a 12 bore to my 'shop protection strategy'. This already included (as he knew) a .38 special, a 9mm auto and a derringer. He said "No way you can keep a shotgun to protect your shop. That's not legal. BUT ,if you have one for rabbit shooting and just happen to keep it in the shop loaded when someone robs you, then we're totally cool about that!"

Ah...happy days


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

On the other hand one is less likely to be knifed these days just because you looked at someone.as for bows and that includes slingbows well the law here would say its illegal if coupled with arrows simple as that.The law on that is very clear and will never be reversed here's one reason why sometime ago when bows/crossbows were allowed in public places a few thugs from every town/city were going around shooting swans geese farm animals and even family pets just for the fun of it and that killed it for everyone thugs still do it today it's rare but at least it's not every day.


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

Tube_Shooter said:


> On the other hand one is less likely to be knifed these days just because you looked at someone.as for bows and that includes slingbows well the law here would say its illegal if coupled with arrows simple as that.The law on that is very clear and will never be reversed here's one reason why sometime ago when bows/crossbows were allowed in public places a few thugs from every town/city were going around shooting swans geese farm animals and even family pets just for the fun of it and that killed it for everyone thugs still do it today it's rare but at least it's not every day.


And I doubt that those who carry knives for OFFENSIVE purposes are much deterred by the law. It seems only to be the right of law abiding citizens to defend themselves that has been eroded to the point of absurdity.

I know what you mean about country folk and cross-bows though. I have a house in Wensleydale and lived there awhile with my late (lesbian) lover. When we began to prepare ourselves for travel (we were going to be hardcore survivalist *****  ) we first bought an air rifle from the local shop. This was no prob and the local farmers were very generous in allowing us to shoot rabbits on their land ("but sithee, tha leaves us pheasants alone, y'aright?". But, when we began to equip our travelling LandRover we bought a crossbow for defence....again from the local shop. For ages after that whenever we went offroading on the high tops we realised that farmerly eyes were being kept open to make sure that the two crazy lesbians were not poaching their sheep. LoL.

As regards self-defence I have had to do what oppressed peoples throughout history have done, particularly the oriental monks who developed so many martial arts. I learned to do without weapons....or to turn anything into a weapon. Surely even the bloody nanny states of Europe cannot prevent me from practising martial arts, weightlifting and wearing steel toe-capped boots that would go through a wall !


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Surely even the bloody nanny states of Europe cannot prevent me from practising martial arts, weightlifting and wearing steel toe-capped boots that would go through a wall ! 

No they can't but the UK has this self defense has to be proportionate to an attack(I to have done all sorts of training)if I over do the punishment on my attacker it would be me behind bars we can't win,safest bet is to lock ourselves away LOL


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

Tube_Shooter said:


> I'm afraid to tell you having an arrow in a public place is an offence i.e it's an offence to have any pointed article in a public place and that would definitely include arrows,so be careful.
> 
> BTW When I was into archery it was ok to convey equipment to and from club and competition venues but nowhere else i.e you have to have lawful excuse to carry arrows carrying them to go hunting isn't one especially if your going through public places.


Taken off the CPS site:_

The defendant is entitled to be acquitted if he shows on the balance of probabilities that:


he had "good reason or lawful authority" for having the bladed or pointed article

lawful authority = Permission of land owner.

It is only illegal to carry a pointed weapon in a public place if you intend to/or use it to injure someone.

If you are travelling between home and hunting ground then it is legal as long as you have permission from the land owner.

The only time arrow is mentioned as illegal for hunting is in relation to deer.


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

Tube_Shooter said:


> Surely even the bloody nanny states of Europe cannot prevent me from practising martial arts, weightlifting and wearing steel toe-capped boots that would go through a wall !
> 
> No they can't but the UK has this self defense has to be proportionate to an attack(I to have done all sorts of training)if I over do the punishment on my attacker it would be me behind bars we can't win,safest bet is to lock ourselves away LOL


That situation did arise for me long,long ago when I was MUCH fitter, stronger and in training than I am now. And I'm afraid my response was WAY disproportionate. Being unsure of the legal position I just ran like buggery (someone would have found him within minutes though)

Incidentally I would point out to the anti-gun fanatics who introduce these laws that on more than one occasion when I have been threatened I was able to produce a (legal) pistol. AND NO ONE GOT HURT unlike the poor sod I dealt with when I wasn't carrying.


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

Found this site recently :-

http://www.britishbowhunterassociation.co.uk/

Maybe it's time to make a stand against government legislation before they take everything away, including martial arts, trecking sticks or steel toe caps in a public place.

It is now possible to start a petition via this site :-

http://www.thepetitionsite.com/

If enough interest is shown I am willing to set this petition up


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

V-alan-tine said:


> Found this site recently :-
> http://www.britishbowhunterassociation.co.uk/
> 
> Maybe it's time to make a stand against government legislation before they take everything away, including martial arts, trecking sticks or steel toe caps in a public place.
> ...


Sounds a good idea. There was a guy on the 'other forum' who had started some sort of european group for the right to self-defence. I would be very happy to get involved with any movement to regain our rights to protect ourselves and our property.


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

ruthiexxxx said:


> Tube_Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Surely even the bloody nanny states of Europe cannot prevent me from practising martial arts, weightlifting and wearing steel toe-capped boots that would go through a wall !
> ...


I know exactly what you're talking about.

I put a lad in hospital when he stepped over the line involving my kids(he was sitting for us nothing sexual he left them alone in the house) and stealing from me,all the neighbours witnessed what I did but there were no witnesses :rofl:

Needless to say he stayed away from me and mine for a long long time.


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

V-alan-tine said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> > Tube_Shooter said:
> ...


Yes, it's crazy that OK people can get criminalised by reasonable action in response to deliberate criminal action


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

From CPS site I'm still not sure you can use a bow even if you have landowners permission

Section 11(1) WCA 1981 prohibits the following methods of killing or taking any wild animal:

Setting in position any self-locking snare "calculated" to cause injury to any wild animal; see "Prohibited methods of killing and taking wild birds" above.
Using a self-locking snare.
Using a bow, crossbow or explosive other than firearm ammunition to kill any wild animal.


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

Tube_Shooter said:


> From CPS site I'm still not sure you can use a bow even if you have landowners permission
> 
> Section 11(1) WCA 1981 prohibits the following methods of killing or taking any wild animal:
> 
> ...


Bow was never mentioned other than what illegal/legal as a starting point. I use a catapult :naughty: which does not involve the use of a bow/prod to store the energy.


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

Also found these petition sites :-

http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/

http://www.activism.com/en_GB/petitiononline.co.uk

http://www.assemblywales.org/gethome/e-petitions.htm

http://www.campaigncentral.org.uk/know-how/online-petitions


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

V-alan-tine said:


> Tube_Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > From CPS site I'm still not sure you can use a bow even if you have landowners permission
> ...


Well they might say you're not using a bow/prod to kill game but you're using arrows of which you're not allowed to kill game with TBH though I think they'd get you no matter you could use a length of string to propel the arrow and they'd still try to make a case against you.Plus when you use a slingshot with arrows it's commonly called a slingbow...there now we have bow back in the frame Lol


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

As an aside topic I found this on wiki under

Bowhunting - Legal and cultural considerations

Europe[edit]

Nations including Denmark, France, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Hungary, Finland, Bulgaria and Slovenia use bow and arrow hunting as a hunting tool in modern game management. Some European countries including Croatia, Germany, Ireland, Norway, Lithuania and the United Kingdom prohibit bowhunting.[7] Bowhunting, like target archery, was revived in the UK during the Victorian era,[8] but has been banned since 1965.[9] Recently a law was passed in Estonia that would allow bowhunting of small game.[10]

I found the part involving Estonia interesting.(April 2013)


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Hello mate I found this on the net and I think it's clear,hope it helps

Thank you for your email of 25 February about hunting with a sling bow. I have been asked to reply.

Under Sections 5 and 11 of the Wildlife and Countryside Act 1981 it is an offence to use for the purpose of killing, or taking any wild bird or animal, any bow or crossbow. It is also an offence to knowingly cause or permit to be done, such an act.

In addition, under the Protection of Wild Mammals Act 1996, it is an offence to (amongst other things) stab or impale any wild mammal with intent to inflict unnecessary cruelty, unless it is the killing in a reasonably swift and humane manner of any such wild mammal which has been injured or taken in the course of lawful shooting, hunting, coursing or pest control.

Yours sincerely

Christiana Purnell
Customer Contact Unit
Defra

See how they can add as in any bow,I think they have it all covered

Wait..you had the answer in your first post I posted same email Lol


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

Tube_Shooter said:


> Hello mate I found this on the net and I think it's clear,hope it helps
> 
> Thank you for your email of 25 February about hunting with a sling bow. I have been asked to reply.
> 
> ...


You can say the same about unnecessary cruelty for shooting.

And as for the definition of a bow any slingbow is not actually a bow but a catapult because it uses elastic to store the energy not a bow made of wood or other material.

That's why I use a catapult and not a slingbow here in the UK.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Tomorrow I shall ring the police and get the facts from them,I'm still convinced the use of arrows is a no go no matter what you use to propel them...we shall see come morning as everything said thus far is just nothing but conjecture.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Couldn't wait until morning

Right just got off the phone with the police and here's what they told me going out with a catapult and arrows will get you arrested even if you have permission from landowner in fact you both could be arrested.Basically if you convert a catapult to shoot arrows you're in possession of an offensive weapon....don't do it I wouldn't want to hear that you got locked up for it.


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## KITROBASKIN (May 20, 2013)

Who decides if a weapon is offensive? Maybe it is offensive if it is effective?

Tragic.


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

I nearly made a comment here that would give cause for concern for the forum admin.

Biting my tongue hurts.


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

Tube_Shooter said:


> Couldn't wait until morning
> 
> Right just got off the phone with the police and here's what they told me going out with a catapult and arrows will get you arrested even if you have permission from landowner in fact you both could be arrested.Basically if you convert a catapult to shoot arrows you're in possession of an offensive weapon....don't do it I wouldn't want to hear that you got locked up for it.


Worst person to ask about the law is a copper, they make it up as they go along even though what is in print say's otherwise.

END OF DISCUSSION ON THIS SUBJECT


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## culcreuch (Dec 1, 2013)

In the UK.....the only way to get a decision is by test case.....and I don't think I would want to go there.


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## B.P.R (Dec 28, 2012)

Just go about your business quietly...

Respect the land... respect the quarry... be sensible and not many people will have a problem...

I have had no problems whatsoever.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Let val be the test case end of tying tp help for me


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

I have only stated what is in print as regards the law in the UK, interpret as you will.

Some are saying that if I was on my way home after buying a slingshot and some arrows I could get locked up for carrying a dangerous weapon.

If that is the way they think then they are the ones that let the government take away all our rights.

Long live the innocent for they shall be our food.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Do as you will doesn't make legal,good luck.and no one is saying its illegal buying and carrying home it comes down to your intentions at the end of the day,I'm just saying if you leave your home with such its an offence


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Sorry to jump in late but I saw that this topic was getting a lot of replies and wanted to see what all the fuss is about.

So let me get this straight, they banned bows in the country with one of the proudest archery traditions in the world? It's illegal to shoot a bow in the land of Robin Hood?

I'm utterly amazed by that!


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Mj no archery is allowed as always only you can't hunt with such is all even as some think using latex to propel arrows,join a archery club and you can target shoot all week long.


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## B.P.R (Dec 28, 2012)

You can still kill a scotsman in york with a bow and arrow...legally....aslong as its not on a sunday 

Theres your excuse.

'Im just away to york...to kill a scotsman' ...

But if its a sunday... your 'for it'


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

B.P.R said:


> You can still kill a scotsman in york with a bow and arrow...legally....aslong as its not on a sunday
> 
> Theres your excuse.
> 
> ...


Lol


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

B.P.R said:


> You can still kill a scotsman in york with a bow and arrow...legally....aslong as its not on a sunday
> Theres your excuse.
> 'Im just away to york...to kill a scotsman' ...
> But if its a sunday... your 'for it'


:rofl:
That's going to be my reply whenever anybody asks me what I'm doing from now on.
-"What are you up to, MJ?"
-"Oh, I'm just away to York to kill a Scotsman "


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

M.J said:


> B.P.R said:
> 
> 
> > You can still kill a scotsman in york with a bow and arrow...legally....aslong as its not on a sunday
> ...


Haha!
Make sure you fix your watch to GMT wouldn't want you to land there on Sunday Lol


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

M.J said:


> Sorry to jump in late but I saw that this topic was getting a lot of replies and wanted to see what all the fuss is about.
> 
> So let me get this straight, they banned bows in the country with one of the proudest archery traditions in the world? It's illegal to shoot a bow in the land of Robin Hood?
> 
> I'm utterly amazed by that!


Yes it's all because the english government hate to see their employers enjoying a traditional pastime.

Oh and just to make a point the english longbow was invented by the welsh :cursin:


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## V-alan-tine (Nov 12, 2013)

B.P.R said:


> You can still kill a scotsman in york with a bow and arrow...legally....aslong as its not on a sunday
> 
> Theres your excuse.
> 
> ...


Make sure he doesn't suffer.........too much


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

V-alan-tine said:


> M.J said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to jump in late but I saw that this topic was getting a lot of replies and wanted to see what all the fuss is about.
> ...


When we lived in Europe I got the impression bow hunting was pretty much illegal anywhere. I think it's an EU thing, not just a UK idea.

Slingshots are not legal for hunting in most of the US. I'm a bit surprised they are so accepted in the UK. I think the US problem is a holdover from the old days when the "slung shot" was a gang weapon, but that was a blunt object not today's catapult.


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## benzidrine (Oct 14, 2013)

I imagine anything that shoots arrows is going to be seen as a type of bow by a court room.


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

benzidrine said:


> I imagine anything that shoots arrows is going to be seen as a type of bow by a court room.


Probably so.

Well, unless it involves powder, then it might be a firearm.

In the US, a slingshot is likely to be seen as a gang weapon and prohibited for that reason. Hunting with a bow is no problem, it's even allowed in many cities. In Europe, hunting with a bow is seen as cruelty to animals and prohibited for an entirely different reason. At least, that's my understanding from having lived in Germany.


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## BCLuxor (Aug 24, 2010)

Again let me jump in late. I used to walk my dog over some local fields I would take a small sling over bag and a small pocket slingshot with a couple hundred steel shot. I am I no doubt and I warn all of us in the UK if a bobby stopped me as I was entering/leaving the fields and searched me if he found the slingshot I would get some kind of "that's not right" speech it is as you all state legal to carry the slingshot round but depending on the fit of your face regardless of legality a nosy cooper can ruin your nice morning walk.. He can ask you down the station, take all your details, check why your there where your going why you have the slingshot etc etc all which are sapping the enjoyment of doing nothing wrong. I just keep things discreet I think as a nation we are not very tolerant of each other and even them nice smiling ladies who walk past while your plinking against a tree stump can sometimes report you for absolutely no reason just fueling nosy Bobby's book of tricks. Stranger=danger give them no excuse.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

I agree BCLuxor just because something appears legal on the face of it don't go around making a noise about it which will bring attention to yourself.For me when I do shoot in the forest I do not stick to beaten tracks I get off those and go deeper into the thicket,out of sight out of mind.


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## vladpills (Jan 30, 2015)

Bow hunting got banned from both england and ireland in 1960's, but as many of youve said, its infact an extremely gray area. You ARE ALLOWED to have a bow, and arrow in a public place, (dismantled for less questions) simply because, YOU CANNOT LOAD A BOW. Crossbows on the other hand, can be loaded, and carried loaded, same with a gun. So long as the bow/slingshot is not loaded, which is impossible, youre fine to carry it.
This is the reason a bow is not classified as a firearm, but a crossbow is in ireland.
Regarding hunting with a bow/slingbow.....yeah, youre probably fine to do it on your own land, if you can kill the animal in a humane way. Otherwise, its a no-no, not because youre hurting the animal, but because if anybody sees you, reports it, police come up, and its more of a "why are you hunting not on your land?!" kinda thing arises.

There was an incident in ireland, quite a while back, where a man was using snares to catch rabbits, on one of the farmers lands. Keep in mind, there were no farm animals on the land, only crops. So all in all, he was actually helping to control the pest population (rabbit is a vermin in a ireland)....somehow, police found out about it, he got brought to court, but the judge let him off with a small fine. Its illegal here, but its not all that bad. Their main concern was that "what if the man damaged the crops, or if the farmer decided to bring animals onto the lands, and the man has no insurance" Keep in mind, snares are completely ILLEGAL in ireland.

Only recently, from 1600s, to 2005, it was the LAW for every irish citizen, to own, and know how to wield a bow! 

What im trying to say to sum it all up,
youre okay to hunt on your own land in privacy,
youre taking chances elsewhere,
and a bow/slingbow isnt classified as a fire arm.

If all goes to shit when im out an about shooting rabbits with a slingshot, and someone asks me, or tries to confront me, what i say is, i was shooting at trees, and accidentally hit the rabbit. That happens rarely. Otherwise, nobody really gives a shit.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

All these weapon carrying laws in all countries give the criminal, who breaks the law in the first place, the advantage over an unarmed target. Weapons laws are based only on theory of wuss legislators rather on practice. Hence I live in a free country.

I was appointed head of security for my four street neighborhood here in Cuenca, Ecuador by vote from all neighbors. It virtually was a unanimous vote in my favor. I hired a guard, the biggest blackest most imposing man I met in this country, his index finger and thumb touched both my ears as he palmed my noggin. This man was the most pleasant man one could meet UNLESS he chose to be otherwise. I armed him with a sawed off 16 ga shotgun, a pepper spray and a walkie talkie radio. Together we went to the local cop shop and asked what we should do when a thief, mugger, violent drunk or suspicious person looking into cars to steal something was found in the neighborhood. The police corporal said and I quote (In English) "Dump the body in the river but way down stream where I don't have to do the paper work, some other policeman would have to." I wasn't expecting that. He was serious.

Well, we weren't about to do what the policeman suggested so I gave a more benign order to the immense guard (we sometimes patrolled the neighborhood together, me with my cross bow, he with his shot gun) at 2AM or so and passers by in csrs would freak out. Word got out. Soon our neighborhood went from a "red zone high crime" to a "no crime" zone, a blue zone. The police corporal gave us a verbal commendation in front of the whole neighborhood monthly meeting. The guard was instructed by me to first beat the living stuffings out of a thief then call me on the radio and I'd come running with a few more neighbors. We had a pyramiding telephone call system wherein you were called and called 2 neighbors, they'd call 2 more each and so on. In a few minutes people with pick handles, guns, knives etc. would show up on a scene and it worked. After the guard beat up two thieves and I was called second, we would call the police and they would come and throw as in launch through the air the criminal in the back of the pickup truck, landing like a bone ball, and tote him off to jail, thanking us.

A yankee friend of mine saw a lady and her purse parted by a grab and run thief. The thief jumped into a waiting taxi but the taxi had to stop in the street for a line of cars at a red light. Dumb, yes. My friend who makes two of me, about Bill Hays size, opened the taxi door, grabbed the thug by the neck, yanked him out and practically killed him by throwing him repeatedly against a brick wall like a basket ball. A policeman was there nearby but didn't do a thing, just watched with a smile on his face and retrieved the lady's purse from the taxi, arresting the taxi driver of course by cuffing him to the door of his car until his fellow officers came. Then the cop walked casually up to the bleeding thief and his yankee assailant, thanked my friend and called for a pickup to throw the thief in to cart him off to jail.

Now that's the sort of country I live in. I pity those who are victim of their own laws. Nuff said.

It is perfectly legal here to tie a thief to a tree or pole and the whole neighborhood beat the stuffings out of him/her. The police must have one representative and the neighborhood president must be present. That is it. The police must ensure the thief doesn't sustain mortal wounds or gasoline poured on him/her and lit. You can pour gasoline but not light it. You can rub the thief's naked body with briars and stinging nettle which is the common thing to do, then pour gasoline to make it smart. But you can't light the gasoline now days. You can throw water on the thief and let him/her shiver all night in almost freezing temperatures. That is also common and legal for it is not a mortal wound. The neighborhood president is there to start and stop the punishmenmt. That is the law here. Don't steal. The law was made by our congress called the Asemblea. It was to SOFTEN the punishment and ensure no deaths or cremations occurred which did before the law was made. Rape, child molestation, theft and adultery are all punishable by the above method. Legally. Frankly I love it. There are not a lot of repeat criminals. Jails here would make a bleeding heart liberal faint. You stand in a crowded cell until it is your turn to lay down and sleep on a dirty urinated cement floor. You don't want to go back to jail ever again. If you sell dope, first offense is 14 years in jail, second offense is 21 years in jail for a real stupid repeater. Your family if you have one must provide your food and it usually is stolen on the spot by others in the cell. If you don't have family you eat rice, bread and water...and that's if it is not taken away from you by others in the cell. Simply said you don't mess up here but once. And yes Susi and I have friends on the local police force, they enjoy coffee and cake with us in the morning often. I made them a set of Kubotons in fact.

I have to CMA here lest a mod bounce me off this forum, I DO NOT PROMOTE VIOLENCE OR BREAKING THE LAWS. I DO SUPPORT AIDING LAW ENFORCEMENT IN WAYS IN WHICH LAW ENFORCEMENT CONDONES. THAT DEPENDS ON YOUR VENUE OF COURSE.


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## scooters (Apr 27, 2015)

The laws on what constitutes an 'offensive' weapon in the UK depends very much on the circumstances of use. For instance a claw hammer is an item which can easily kill someone if applied to their head with some force! Is it illegal to posess a claw hammer in a public place? Well, YES if your intention is to use the claw hammer as a weapon to assault another individual. The Crown (the prosecutor) has to prove that you intended to use the hammer in question to harm another person, ie they have to prove intent. This applies to a broad range of items and objects. The only weapons that will quickly result in an arrest are those which are strictly forbidden. These are usually either designed specifically for hurting someone, or are easily concealable. For example, you would certainly be arrested for carrying a lead blackjack or cosh in your coat pocket. also weapons that are able to be deployed quickly are often outright banned. switchblades, sword canes. However, there are weapons which don't fall under these categories. for example, those carried for religions or cultural reasons. I am Scottish and when I wear a kilt I carry in my sock a Sgian Dubh, a 'Black Knife' which is 200 years old, razor sharp 5 " triangular blade designed for killing, They are not designed for whittling or cooking. The Black Knife is a weapon that, in more violent times, a man would carry concealed on his person, hence 'black' in the Scots definition which is 'evil, bad, naughty, crafty' (Blackmail is another such word of an activity invented in the angloScottish borders as an alternative to honest employment in the 15th C). carrying it visibly, tucked into your sock is a sign of goodwill and hospitality as you are declaring that this weapon of last resort and murder is not hidden. However, because the Sgian Dubh is a cultural item I am allowed to carry it in a public place. should I then use it on someone I would be in real trouble. additinally shoud I visit a night club in the kilt the bouncers will usually request I leave the said weapon at the door The same is true for Sikhs.

I also fight with italian longsword. This is a sharp, double edged longsword which requires two hands. The blade is 4 feet long and is quite capable of killing a man in a single stroke, this is what it is designed to do. Using the Fiore methods of martial art developed in Italy around 1400 we spar with these swords wearing stiff padded hauberks (arming jackets) leather breeches, steel gorgets and helmets with substantial face protection and steel gauntlets. No I carry this kit in a sports bag on my way to the club. If I am stopped then the crown again would have to prove intent. It is a reasonable defence for me to justify the posession of such an item because I was on my way to the club to practice my technique as I am a trained swordsman. Indeed, if I was outside the club in the carpark or putting on a display at a historical fair, all these are perfectly valid defences for such an item. We were at our local roman fort the other day, we live on Hadrian's wall, and Roman army re enactors were using a ballista to shoot bolts nearly 300 meters with devastating results. The Legionnaires carried Gladius short swords, Pilum javelins and sharp spears. all of these items are designed to kill. Again, if one of these chaps is using this kit whislt dressed up as a Roman at a fort then its a perfectly valid defence. Should they however, decide to go drinking in Newcastle with a Gladius hidden under their coat they would be in a right pickle explaining this to the police. Again, the idea of concealment makes it likely that you had or have some intent to use it to harm someone.

A case point, I used to run an engineering business. I had to visit the court in Edinburgh and on my way in I stopped at the security bench. I suddenly realised that by mistake I was carrying a multi tool with a hatchet and hammer blade on my belt. I simply took the belt off and handed the item to the security guards who didn;t blink because I also had a hard hat and work boots. Had I handed such an item to the guard when wearing a suit he may have had something to say. again, it is intent of use. If I carry a machete under the seat of my car and am stopped the police will want to know why it is not in the boot (trunk) and if I cannot explain it then I'll be for the chop.

Bows and Arrows/crossbows and hunting.

Hunting with arrows in the UK is illegal because it is deemed to cause unnecessary suffering to the beast in question. You are allowed to use air weapons, slingshots with appropriate power and ammunition and firearms to hunt because all these items are high velocity and cause a degree of system shock on impact. They stun rather than impale. Anyone who has ever stabbed themselves (like I did last night using a kitchen knife t open an oyster) will know how painful it is getting a stab wound. The law on Bows is again, covered by the intent issue. If you have a reasonable defence - ie you are at an archery club or are re enacting or it is a child's bow then you will likely get away with it. Should you be carrying a broadhead arrow knocked to a bow down the high street on a Saturday afternoon or in a football crowd, dont be surprised if an armed response unit takes you down. Crossbows and air weapons are the same however there are rules about how far you have to be from public roads, other people's property etc. This is to stop people using them in suburban gardens.

Slingshots to take small game are absolutely fine provided you have the landowner's permission to hunt or it is poaching. Slingshots are a favourite of poachers in the UK. If you take your slingshot onto land without permission to hunt and are carrying lead or steel ammo for target shooting or plinking you might find yourself having to explain to the police what you were doing and convince them that you weren't out after pheasants. Most landowners will be happy to give you permission to kill rabbits which are a pest, but you have to ask and will probably need to pay for the right.

On the whole, the laws about what constitutes a weapon and what dosen't are quite sensible in the UK. Many items can be used as an offensive weapon but have other legitimate uses which are perfectly legal. The problems come when you start concealing items that can be used as a weapon. ie, keeping a claw hammer in a carpenter's belt when you are a carpenter is fine. However, if the same carpenter went out for a walk and put the said hammer under his coat....well...that would be seen in the eyes of the law as being concealing an offensive weapon. Unless you had some very very good explanation.

Plod is the worst person to ask about what is offensive and what isn't. You'll get a desk officer who will always err on the side of caution. If I phoned them today and asked them if it is ok for me to carry a 4 foot two handed razor sharp longsword designed for cutting people in half I know what they will say "stay there sir, we'll be round to nick you in a minute'.

The crown have to prove intent.

This from the CPS site in England (Scotland has similar laws):

"The defendant is entitled to be acquitted if he shows on the balance of probabilities that he had "lawful authority or reasonable excuse" for having the weapon (Archbold 24-121-122). Where details of a defence are given in interview or in a defence statement, the CPS should consider whether evidence is available to rebut the defence and should liaise with the police if additional enquiries or evidence are necessary."

"lawful authority or reasonable excuse" means a plod will only arrest you if they are likely to be able to prove you had neither.

The law is sensible because it allows this flexibility. There are other parts of the world where mere possession of an item like my sword would see you prosecuted. In the UK I am allowed to buy it, own it and keep it provided I am responsible for it and act in a responsible manner, ie, I don;t take it out for coffee or to the football. I don;t conceal it and I carry it in a bag or am dressed obviously for re enactment or demonstration purposes.

Use common sense but hunting with arrows in the UK - its a big no no I'm afraid.


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