# Anyone used a vacuum sealer to glue laminate sheets together?



## Byudzai (Aug 31, 2013)

I glued together some 5x12" G10 and aluminum to make that jade/aluminum FlatCat and i found, thanks to the translucency of the green G10 sheet, that big flat bubbles had remained between the sheets despite my clamping efforts.

Two waterjet guys have recommended I get a big suction bag system and use that instead of clamps because it gives even pressure and should suck the bubbles out. That sounds nice, but has anyone done it successfully?

With smaller pieces you can get the bubbles out more easily, but I really want to make colorful planks to give to my waterjet guy for special editions, and I need the glue joints to be perfect across the whole plank. Any help would be amazing!

-Alex


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## Slingshot Silas (Apr 4, 2013)

Hey Alex,

It sounds like a good idea to me. I have one of those, and you beat me to the idea! Ha ha. I was thinking about this contraption a couple of months ago. I don't know about how much vacuum it will pull, but it works pretty good on a piece of cow meat. I'm on a borrowed computer right now--mine went kablooey around Christmas, and no fundage to get a new one right now. Kinda hard working on a 7 inch touch tablet, so I'm sure a bunch of folks on the forum are overjoyed not to be hearing my ranting for a minute. I'll be back!

Anyway, the vac system seems worth a try. Good idea, and as they say; "Better than nothing. I've found clamping hit and miss sometimes, too. Let us know how this experiment turns out. That's "thinking outside the bag"! :rolling:

Peace out,

Steve aka SSS

:woot: :woot:


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

Idea 1.

That ought to work and perhaps when the vacuum is produced and the bag is in your hand free of the vacuum machine, clamp it also using padded clamps through thick plastic bags...that way air is sucked out theoretically, -and- the clamps ensure a tight even job.

Idea 2.

Pad the clamps with a couple layers of jean denim or similar dense thick cloth (not foam) so the plastic bag isn't compromised. or sandwich the whole bag et al between two pieces of perfectly flat plank, hard material, perhaps with a piece of blue jean denim on each side of the plastic bag, and clamp the hades out of it tight as a Scotsman.

Idea 3.

Also, this is theory for I haven't used a vacuum machine thusly, if you put a fair amount of glue on both sides of the laminate, it ought to furnish enough goo volume to exude a lot thereby taking air with it. It may be sort of messy but for an unfinished frame it doesn't matter...all surfaces have to be abraded anyway.

Idea 4.

If when you've loaded both halves of the laminate with copious amounts of glue, spread the glue as best you can with a flat spatula so as to help eliminate any high low spots that would trap air.

4.a.

Putting the two together... contact one edge of the laminates only like in a "V", and slowly move them closer and closer together using the edge as a hinge...so slowly as to encourage the air bubbles to keep ahead of the forward creeping juncture...exuding glue and air out ahead, slowly, instead of slapping the two laminates together. This would I think help eliminate or indeed eliminate air trapped between the laminates. Then place in the bag and vacuum it...clamp after that as said above.

This bubble discovery you made indicates laminates do have air bubbles, and that would compromise the adherence of the laminates in anything. I wonder how many laminated slingshots there are out there with vicious little beastie air bubbles lurking inside out of sight? Your profession...would know how to peer inside to find out.

When I was a kid (I was born at an early age) I learned to mound the epoxy up in the middle and slowly move the two pieces together...the mound exudes as the pieces approach each other's contact, and with the exuded front comes the air. This is an alternative to the hinge method I described above in item 4a. I tried that on two pieces of glass once to make a thick glass base for a lamp and I got no bubbles and I could see clean through the glass to check. I put magazine cut outs in the lamination..it was for a lamp for our den...cutouts from NRA magazine.

When you mix any resin, you get bubbles. In the jewelry trade I debubblized mold compound by putting the mold in a vacuum chamber and the bubbles then became large and floated to the top of the mix, then I poured the debubblized mix into the mold container. Otherwise there would be bubbles clinging to that which I wanted to make a mold.

You might debubblize the resin first using one of the brake fluid hand pump vacuum pump doo jobbies in a small chamber. If you want to do this a lot that is. A hand vacuum pump is less than a C note. Possibly if you use a small plastic container with say 1/4" slots cut in the rim, so the plastic bag won't get into them, and put the resin in that cup, and put the cup in the plastic bag...insert in your vacuum food machine, it would produce enough vacuum sucking the air out also of the resin container's slots, to debubblize your resin. Then use the debubblized resin, pouring it carefully so as to not incorporate any air and spreading it carefully as well to not create bubbles or froth.

That way you don't have to buy a brake fluid hand pump and make a vacuum container, just use your food vacuum machine.

You can vacuum pack your products as well with this for shipment or storage! A neat twist. Oxygen ages rubber...maybe a good idea to vacuum your rubber stock you aren't going to use this week to prevent oxidation...and store it in a light tight box/container and in your fridge. Am I being too fanatic here? Prolly so. I had one of the food vacuum machines, any plastic bag will work, at least in mine and you can reuse the baqs if cleaned out well. Just cut off the seal close to the melted bead and reuse.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

Alex, I edited this a bunch of times, be sure to refresh the page and read it anew. Rather than write it in word pad first and do all my editing as I usually do, oh no I fussed around and did it piece meal this time. :banghead:

The plastic cup would have to be strong enough to withstand the crushing force of the bag when the vacuum is applied. A urine sample cup made of stiff Nalgene type plastic would work. Just make sure you cut 1/4" slots along the rim so the plastic bag won't seal off the cup rim and avoid the vacuum.

I vacuum packed venison with steak sauce and wine and froze it. Even tho it was frozen the flavors would penetrate the meat. You can't beat that meat. (!)


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## joe_mcdogwad (Sep 19, 2014)

Vacuum bags are awesome! That's what I use for almost all of my laminations. And not just for slingshots, I've used a vac bag for building guitars, skateboards, and all sorts of random stuff. A couple years back I was building some longboards with either fiberglass or formica as the top sheet, and using a vacuum bag was the ONLY way I could get my laminations smooth and bubble free.

If you're looking to try out a setup like this, there's an awesome company called Roarockit that you should check out:

http://www.roarockit.com/tap-kits-bags-and-parts

They make super affordable vacuum bag setups. I have a couple of their Thin Air Press Kits, and I've been thoroughly impressed with them (that's what I've been using for my slingshot laminations). All of their kits use hand pumps, so it takes an extra minute or so to actually pump all of the air out of the bag, but I've never had a problem with that. There's a ton of tutorials on their site too which are worth checking out. Most of them are geared towards skateboard makers, but the concepts are the same regardless of what you're working on.


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## joe_mcdogwad (Sep 19, 2014)

One more note before I forget: if you decide to go the vacuum bag route, be sure to use a breather ply or netting to give the air a 'path' to escape out to the valve on your bag, otherwise you might wind up with a few air pockets (I learned this the hard way a couple of tims). The Roarockit kits all come with a few feet of reusable breather netting, and there's a few tutorials on their site that give a good rundown of how to use it.


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