# 1/2" steel traveling slow - How to move heavy ammo faster



## owlo (Jun 22, 2021)

I'm using 1" thera band golds and trying to shoot 1/2" steel with my scout LT. I read that I need to cut my bands at that width for that weight of ammo, but I noticed that the speed of my ammo is noticeably slow in comparison to lighter ammo. How can I increase my speed while keeping heavier ammo? Do I need to use different band material?

I've heard of people double layering or folding but I don't know much about it

also, I'm trying to refrain from using the butterfly method because of an injury a while back causing pain in the extension of my arm in that way


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## vince4242 (Jan 11, 2016)

I think there are many facets to your question. First off half inch steel will probably move slower than quarter inch steel unless you have a really heavy pull on that half inch steel. But half inch steel moving slower has much more kinetic energy than quarter inch steel moving much faster. If you're looking for hunting then half inch is going to have a much more lethal hit going slower than smaller ammo going faster in most situations.

In general a tapered band usually moves faster than a straight band, for me I shoot 30x15mm .6 bands to get a very fast 240fps with ⁷/¹⁶" steel. 1/2" steel moves at 200ish fps with the same bands, and has a higher foot pound number then the 7/16 in steel.

Are you hunting? Unless you are hunting there really is no reason to use half inch steel for anything. I shoot quarter inch steel on a daily basis for targets and spinners, when I bump up to 7/16 in steel which is a very good hunting ammo, I can shoot the exact same trajectory and the exact same aiming point as long as I'm using the same slingshot. So I can practice a whole lot more with a lighter band pull and a very fast 1/4 inch steel that I could ever do with half inch steel. Most people who hunt top out at 7/16" steel for hunting. Some people swear by 5/16 or 8 mm steel for hunting as it's incredibly fast and as long as you make a headshot it will kill just as good as bigger ammo.

For your specific question, I have never used theraband gold I use slingshot latex from simpleshot.com

Hope that helps.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

What's your active band length and draw length ? Thera Gold was very good slingshot band years ago but not sure if it still as good as it was . You have to stretch Thera Gold 5 times the active length to get optimal power . Example : If your draw length is 30 inches your active band length should be 6 inches . 6 x 5 = 30


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## vince4242 (Jan 11, 2016)

I have heard that double layer or folding bands is not really the answer for more speed. A good taper with the right size and thickness of bands should move half inch plenty fast. Another good option I just thought of was you could make a starship then you would get butterfly like band stretch while still anchoring to your face. There's a whole starship section in the general discussion group.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

There is a treasure trove of information on speed and power shooting on this Forum. Start here to see what members have achieved. Slingshot Forum 300 Club


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## owlo (Jun 22, 2021)

treefork said:


> What's your active band length and draw length ? Thera Gold was very good slingshot band years ago but not sure if it still as good as it was . You have to stretch Thera Gold 5 times the active length to get optimal power . Example : If your draw length is 30 inches your active band length should be 6 inches . 6 x 5 = 30


yeah, my active band length is 6 inches but im still having the issue. what type of flat band do you suggest i use instead of thera band gold?


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## owlo (Jun 22, 2021)

vince4242 said:


> I have heard that double layer or folding bands is not really the answer for more speed. A good taper with the right size and thickness of bands should move half inch plenty fast. Another good option I just thought of was you could make a starship then you would get butterfly like band stretch while still anchoring to your face. There's a whole starship section in the general discussion group.


i'll definitely check out the starship, as well as tapering. ive never tapered before so ill have to watch a video about it haha


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## owlo (Jun 22, 2021)

vince4242 said:


> I think there are many facets to your question. First off half inch steel will probably move slower than quarter inch steel unless you have a really heavy pull on that half inch steel. But half inch steel moving slower has much more kinetic energy than quarter inch steel moving much faster. If you're looking for hunting then half inch is going to have a much more lethal hit going slower than smaller ammo going faster in most situations.
> 
> In general a tapered band usually moves faster than a straight band, for me I shoot 30x15mm .6 bands to get a very fast 240fps with ⁷/¹⁶" steel. 1/2" steel moves at 200ish fps with the same bands, and has a higher foot pound number then the 7/16 in steel.
> 
> ...


im hoping to one day hunt, which is why i shoot / practice with 1/2" steel. i heard 1/2" steel is optimal for rabbits, which would be the largest game i would consider hunting. Also, i watched a video about someone talking about how tapering doesn't always guarantee higher speeds, but from what i hear from others that info is probably wrong. With the 1/2" steel i can only dent an empty soda can at about 40 feet away, instead of at least penetrating the cans first layer, which is what im hoping to do


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

I believe that first of all it is necessary to abandon the use of thera band in favor of more modern brands.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Valery said:


> I believe that first of all it is necessary to abandon the use of thera band in favor of more modern brands.


I mildly disagree. People have been killing small game with slingshots since long before any of the modern rubbers appeared. Sure, better rubber is available than TheraBand, but even the lowly Sterling 107 office band can generate enough power for hunting. Charles made some serious power with 107s. Here's one test on the way to his ultimate 40+ lb/ft. Power Rangers


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

owlo said:


> im hoping to one day hunt, which is why i shoot / practice with 1/2" steel. i heard 1/2" steel is optimal for rabbits, which would be the largest game i would consider hunting. Also, i watched a video about someone talking about how tapering doesn't always guarantee higher speeds, but from what i hear from others that info is probably wrong. With the 1/2" steel i can only dent an empty soda can at about 40 feet away, instead of at least penetrating the cans first layer, which is what im hoping to do



If you want better performance, the tapers really are a small bit of magic. They can also be an unending rabbit hole that you can lose yourself in searching for the best one for your favorite ammo. But some of us enjoy a bit of that now and again.

Also, the modern elastics really are better. Although Henry's point is well made- rabbits were well within reach for surgical tubing propelled ammo (sometimes rocks) in days gone by. It's just a question of how much tech you want to put into your speed search.

Spending some time playing with one of the newer latex brands that have been well vetted here may be fun and worth your while (Simpleshot, Precise, GZK, Sumike, Snipersling, BSB, to name a few, and probably forget a few). Same for tapers. Also, there is a treasure trove of info on bands and tapers if you search this forum- how to make them, what ones do well with this ammo or that, etc..

For the penetration- I don't have a lot of experience hunting with a slingshot, at least not in this or the last decade. But remember that it is the impact rather than the penetration that gets the job done. Okay, some of each really, but the bigger the ball the more impact matters. I have compared small and big ammo going at the same velocity and found the small will penetrate a can when the large will not. However, when doing then energy calculation the bigger ball is packing several times more power. So my guess is you don't need to worry about penetration so much- look at the mass of your ammo and the speed you are shooting it at. Maybe feed those into a bullet energy calculator app and see if you meet or beat one of the recommended numbers for hunting- I think I have seen rec's ranging from 6-10 ft lbs of energy for humane hunting of game like rabbits. Without a lot of personal experience I'm guessing if you can transfer 10 ft lbs of energy to a can regularly with ammo going 180 fps or better you'll be good to go. But just my semi-informed WAG.

For energy, I don't think any will argue much over 1/2" steel. Although the 7/16" seems to be very popular for hunting being a nice mix of mass and speed that keeps a lot of the power with good mass while shooting a good bit faster and thus giving flatter trajectory / more reliable accuracy.

If you take it, it should be an enjoyable journey that will improve things a lot for you. And if you get there by testing a couple elastics and tapers along the way, you may enjoy the trip and gain some valuable info along the way. And if you mine this forum for info, you'll find it to be a great map for guiding and speeding your journey- so much good info and many helpful people with vast experience here.

Cheers, best of luck, and happy shooting


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

Henry the Hermit said:


> I mildly disagree. People have been killing small game with slingshots since long before any of the modern rubbers appeared.


I will also gently insist on my point of view.  Office rubber bands, tape cut from bicycle cameras and the like are good for shooting, but today it is already a palliative. Modern latexes have an advantage in speed, which means that the projectile will have more flatness, hence it follows that less distance corrections are needed, and the chance of being hit from the first shot is higher. The rabbit will definitely not want to wait for the second shot.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Valery said:


> I will also gently insist on my point of view.  Office rubber bands, tape cut from bicycle cameras and the like are good for shooting, but today it is already a palliative. Modern latexes have an advantage in speed, which means that the projectile will have more flatness, hence it follows that less distance corrections are needed, and the chance of being hit from the first shot is higher. The rabbit will definitely not want to wait for the second shot.


My only point of disagreement is that it is "necessary" to abandon tried and proven materials. Can we agree that it is advantageous?


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## Valery (Jan 2, 2020)

Henry the Hermit said:


> My only point of disagreement is that it is "necessary" to abandon tried and proven materials. Can we agree that it is advantageous?


I think yes. In any case, until the time when the cost of a shot from a slingshot is compared with the cost of a shot from a rifle.


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## owlo (Jun 22, 2021)

High Desert Flipper said:


> If you want better performance, the tapers really are a small bit of magic. They can also be an unending rabbit hole that you can lose yourself in searching for the best one for your favorite ammo. But some of us enjoy a bit of that now and again.
> 
> Also, the modern elastics really are better. Although Henry's point is well made- rabbits were well within reach for surgical tubing propelled ammo (sometimes rocks) in days gone by. It's just a question of how much tech you want to put into your speed search.
> 
> ...


Thank you so much for the response, I'll look at different bands as well as tapering. I don't know much about two bands but I see a lot of people use them and they look pretty neat


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

owlo said:


> Thank you so much for the response, I'll look at different bands as well as tapering. I don't know much about two bands but I see a lot of people use them and they look pretty neat


Doubled up bands do provide some extra speed when the ammo is heavy relative to the band. I posted a test comparing two Simpleshot 0.4 bands vs a Simpleshot 0.8 band. There was a modest velocity gain with heavy ammo, 5% or something like that. Maybe worthwhile if you are craving every bit of speed and willing to cut and tie doubled bands.









Friday Flingday Funday- are thin bands faster than thick?


Here's the next installment of Impact Friday- a name I need to change since I am not liking it much. Maybe something like Friday Funday Flingday or something like that. Or, since I am often re-inventing the wheel by testing already established things maybe I will call it re-discovery Fridays...




www.slingshotforum.com


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## vince4242 (Jan 11, 2016)

I would go back to suggesting 7/16 in Steel as a hunting ammo especially for rabbits. Rabbits are a very delicate animal there's a reason one of the very first weapons created is called a "rabbit stick" just a 3-foot stick you throw sideways and if you hit the rabbit it dies most of the time.
Personally I like simpleshot elastic, I've tried the other Chinese elastics and they're a little too stretchy for my taste. I like the snap and the response of simpleshot latex, but it's all down to personal preference there is not one better then the other as far as modern latex.

I'm still going to promote shooting ¼" steel as your practice, Target ammo. It moves very fast and you can shoot all day with four to six pounds of draw weight as opposed to 15 ish pounds of draw weight on a half inch ammo bands. They will shoot exactly the same with a flat trajectory and the same with slingshot, but the ammo is much lighter and much cheaper.

My two cents, I have hunted with 7/16 and 1/2 inch and find them about the same at close to range, and the 7/16" xan reach out a little further and keep its flat trajectory. 

My 2 cents... some Chinese companies will send you samples of their different latex so you can try a few band that which is what I did. It's a couple of bucks and you get enough to make a few bands. I found simple shot was mine though after trying them all.


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