# Steel balls fly out of pouch prematurely



## Grampa wrinkle pants (Jul 4, 2019)

I'm shooting a natural fork slingshot in full butterfly with the bands OTT and the slingshot held sideways. I always twist the pouch 90 degrees and give it a tweak. I am shooting 3/8 steel ball bearings with TB black. I cut the bands 15mm wide with no taper and two layers on each side. Up to this point I have never had a problem, but after a recent band change I have had many shots where the projectile seems to be exiting the pouch prematurely. When it does, it always flies up and way to the right, away from my hand (thank god). I can see that the bands are failing to accelerate the bearing the way they're supposed to because the bands fly really fast and the projectile goes somewhere else at a much slower speed. I finally quit shooting after I had a RTS fly past my left ear.

Also, when one of my bands break, I replace just the broken one. Could that be the problem?

My pouch is made of leather and I grip the smooth side with my fingers and the fuzzy side around the ball. The pouch is a rectangle shape about 4mm wider than the ball. I always make sure to tie the pouches on with the extra material folded over outside of the pouch

Has anyone ever had this problem before? Is my technique flawed? Could my band set/pouch be the problem? Any advice would be greatly appreciated and may save my face or neck.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Unmatched bands maybe?

Try a different bandset.


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

First off that's WAY TO MUCH elastic for 3/8 steel. That set up will handle 1/2" lead. The pouch has to be too small. 
From an butterfly shooter to another. What's happening is extremely dangerous. Very dangerous.


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

If I understand correctly you have two bands on each side. Way too much rubber. The point of butterfly shooting is to get more rubber without doubling up. You need to match ammo with the bands. Try one band on each side. I don't turn the pouch. Does anybody turn the pouch we shooting full butterfly.

When one band breaks I change both.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Didn't even see that... Thats 30mm per side!!! Probably go down to like 10-12mm singles.


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## Samurai Samoht (Apr 6, 2013)

Hes using Theraband Black so 2 layers of 15mm isn't entirely outlandish.

It sounds like a pouch/release issue to me. Curious that it's a new development though considering you are already doing butterfly. I would recommend changing the bands first. If it flubs again then it's a pouch/release issue and I would say take some time to really concentrate on the release technique or try a pouch such as the Samurai by Warrior Pouches or a 5/8" SuperSure pouch from simple-shot.

Consider a wider but single layer bandset with the TB Black. Maybe a 22mm straight cut to start with?


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## Grampa wrinkle pants (Jul 4, 2019)

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> If I understand correctly you have two bands on each side. Way too much rubber. The point of butterfly shooting is to get more rubber without doubling up. You need to match ammo with the bands. Try one band on each side. I don't turn the pouch. Does anybody turn the pouch we shooting full butterfly.
> 
> When one band breaks I change both.


Actually, there's a guy on youtube (1611torsten) who demonstrates full butterfly and he appears to twist and tweak the pouch. This is where you'll find his video:


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## Grampa wrinkle pants (Jul 4, 2019)

SamuraiSamoht said:


> Hes using Theraband Black so 2 layers of 15mm isn't entirely outlandish.
> 
> It sounds like a pouch/release issue to me. Curious that it's a new development though considering you are already doing butterfly. I would recommend changing the bands first. If it flubs again then it's a pouch/release issue and I would say take some time to really concentrate on the release technique or try a pouch such as the Samurai by Warrior Pouches or a 5/8" SuperSure pouch from simple-shot.
> 
> Consider a wider but single layer bandset with the TB Black. Maybe a 22mm straight cut to start with?


With double 15mm TB black bands, I was only getting about 245 fps. I'm curious to see how 22mm single straight cut will perform. I'll give it a go.


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

Grampa wrinkle pants said:


> Grandpa Grumpy said:
> 
> 
> > If I understand correctly you have two bands on each side. Way too much rubber. The point of butterfly shooting is to get more rubber without doubling up. You need to match ammo with the bands. Try one band on each side. I don't turn the pouch. Does anybody turn the pouch we shooting full butterfly.
> ...


If you watch the front view he does not appear to turn the pouch though it does look like he appears to tweak.


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## Samurai Samoht (Apr 6, 2013)

Grampa wrinkle pants said:


> SamuraiSamoht said:
> 
> 
> > Hes using Theraband Black so 2 layers of 15mm isn't entirely outlandish.
> ...


245 isn't bad.  Not sure if the singles will be that fast but I guess we will see if the ammo get to the target like it should.


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## rosco (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't like to twist or tweak the pouch at all for any of my shooting. For my money Torsten is doing a slightly extended 3/4 butterfly. I'd post a pic of my full butterfly pouch hold, but it is utterly impossible to take a pic of myself doing it while holding this stupid iPad. Have to wait till someone comes home, but it involves keeping a clear straight line from pouch to fork, with my thumb up. I never use doubles either. Also manage to get the odd flyer and fork hit, so I'm not putting myself on a pedestal here....

There's not much forgiveness for slack form with butterfly though. Can be a brutal learning curve.


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## Pebble Shooter (Mar 29, 2014)

Looking at the thickness of Thera-Band according to the various colors, TB-black appears to have a thickness of Black - .381mm (.0150 inch)

https://slingshotforum.com/topic/203-thera-band-thickness/

Like others have already pointed out, straight-cut double layered TB Black is somewhat on the heavy side for the quoted steel ammo size, but this is not the reason for the ammo leaving the pouch erratically as described.

Assuming that key variables are correct, such as symmetrical band lengths and widths, a sufficiently wide pouch with accurately placed lateral attachment holes, and the whole setup being attached correctly to the forks to ensure perfect band and pouch alignment, the aspect that does raise concern in my opinion *is the pouch being twisted by the shooter to 90 degrees* relative to band alignment prior to the release. :hmm: (Do correct me if I misunderstood).

In my view, this would most certainly *induce a rotational motion of the pouch upon its release *as it realigns "in-flight" relative to its band attachment points with the forward pull of the flat bands - which could explain the ammo being ejected from the pouch during the initial high acceleration phase and its (very dangerous!) trajectory beyond that stage. I would therefore suggest:

- Checking that the pouch release technique is correct i.e. the pouch held between the thumb and the index finger, where the forward section of the thumb beyond its middle joint should ideally lie perpendicularly (90 degrees) directly above the second joint of the index finger;

- Aligning the pouch with the bands prior to releasing the pouch, *no twisting;*

- Ensuring that the slingshot forks held sideways in OTT mode are at 90 degrees relative to the drawn flat bands.

Cutting the single-layered TB black band width to, say, 22 mm at the forks and 15 mm at the pouch (tapering) should yield higher projectile velocities in full butterfly style, while reducing draw weight and improving safety (bands should ideally break at the pouch). It's a case of experimenting a bit.

On that note, this video is quite interesting if TB blue is being used:






TB blue has a thickness of .3048mm (.0120 inch). The significant tapering is why he is used double-layered bands.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

Grampa wrinkle pants said:


> I'm shooting a natural fork slingshot in full butterfly with the bands OTT and the slingshot held sideways. I always twist the pouch 90 degrees and give it a tweak. I am shooting 3/8 steel ball bearings with TB black. I cut the bands 15mm wide with no taper and two layers on each side. Up to this point I have never had a problem, but after a recent band change I have had many shots where the projectile seems to be exiting the pouch prematurely. When it does, it always flies up and way to the right, away from my hand (thank god). I can see that the bands are failing to accelerate the bearing the way they're supposed to because the bands fly really fast and the projectile goes somewhere else at a much slower speed. I finally quit shooting after I had a RTS fly past my left ear.
> 
> Also, when one of my bands break, I replace just the broken one. Could that be the problem?
> 
> ...


I also used to have premature problems, but I'm approaching the age of 75 in a couple of weeks, and my degree of premature-ness has diminished greatly.

So, just give it a bit more time, Grandpa.

THWACK!


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