# Hand Tool Question?



## e~shot

I have a 10cm (4") x 15cm (6") x 2cm (3/4") thick wood, I want to split it from middle so I can laminate between it another wood. is there any hand tool for this job? because it is difficult to do this with coping saw or hand saw.

Don't just say use an axe LOL.


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## ash

What saws do you have available to you? Show a picture if possible.

I would use a hand saw like any of these and start by cutting the beginning of the split just 5mm deep on all four sides. Then cut from one end using the 5mm slots as a guide.










These days, pull saws are getting very good. They're much sharper and faster cutting than traditional saws and can be easier to use with limited facilities.


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## e~shot

ash said:


> What saws do you have available to you? Show a picture if possible.
> 
> I would use a hand saw like any of these and start by cutting the beginning of the split just 5mm deep on all four sides. Then cut from one end using the 5mm slots as a guide.
> 
> These days, pull saws are getting very good. They're much sharper and faster cutting than traditional saws and can be easier to use with limited facilities.


That looks nice idea. here are my 2 award winning saws LOL.

Few questions is Pull saw = back saw? any recommend brand for this?


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## Jeff Lazerface

i use a pull saw, they are very very good but easy to bend the blade. i can shave 1/16 off a 2x4 effortlessly and perfectly strait


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## Mister Magpie

the tools you are suggesting are good for their purposes, however, if I understand e-shot correctly, he wants to make two slices out of one board so that he can do laminate work. From my very limited experience, you need a precision instrument like a planer (or belt sander) to make the slab faces perfectly smooth (unless you don't mind super thick and ugly glue joints) after you have ripped the piece apart with a table or band saw.

I hope someone else would chime in because I don't think thee is a hand tool capable of this. You would have to invest significant money and have some room to store such a machine.

Darren


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## Mister Magpie

Quarterinmynose suggested buying the wood already sized from thinwoods.com


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## PorkChopSling

Yes, it can be done by hand with a saw or pull saw, that's how it was done in the olden days. You just need to have patience and a steady hand, and like Ash said make some pre cuts along the sides as a guild. And, you don't have to have a belt sander, it just makes life much much easier if you do have one. But, sometimes it's nice to just zone out sanding something down, or taking longer with a project cause your doing it all by manual power. Especially if one is up really late, having sneaked off to play, and you don't want to wake the other half cause you know you'll get yelled at to go to sleep, hand tools are a little quieter then power tools :shhh:


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## Mister Magpie

Well, you learn something new everyday! But that sure sounds like a lot of W.O.R.K.


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## Rapier

the cut doesn't have to be planed or sanded because it ends up being the outside and shaped after laminating. what is originally the outside surfaces are the ones you will glue together after cleaning up with a sanding block. You can use a stiff panel saw but not a flexible pull saw as you will end up taking off a fillet no matter how steady you are. I would go to a local cabinet maker and ask them to cut it down the thickness. you will loose approx. 3mm but the cut will be reasonable. just explain exactly what you want or a misunderstanding might see you with a board ripped in two which is a much more common procedure.


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## AK Rick

The work is the whole point of not setting the dang thing on a band saw or buying thinner stock! Some folks like that they are creating under there own power. Many find a great deal of satisfaction in being self sufficient and independent. A single cut on a block is nothing compared to the work involved in say a barrel, chair or boat but the level of quality and skill needed to make such things by hand gives the craftsman a great deal more satisfaction than slappin together a cut out from Ikea!

The hand tool that work best for resawing stock in my own experience has been the Japanese style draw or pull saw. Most come with a rip side and a cross cut side and when used carefully will give you a cut so smooth and even you can do your lamination without facing the stock.


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## Rapier

Absolutely true Rick. If it's only a small piece, 100mm x 150mm then I guess an end cut on 20mm wouldn't be overly ambitious but a new saw is defiantly in order. Good luck eyshot.


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## AK Rick

Probably the 2 most satisfying projects I have done over the years were the two "stone age projects" I did. A drum I used fire to hollow and stone tools to shape/cut the raw hide for the head. And a long bow. You would be amazed how little you need to do an amazing amount of work! He could do it with the copping saw.....I wouldn't want too!!!! But in 20 years of living off what Alaska has to offer me I have done some stunning things with a leatherman and a bit of wire!


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## Rapier

Oh yeah. survival is the mother of not only invention but out there... persistence, recycling, ingenuity and of course deliverance in more ways than one... a truly amazing part of the world you live in but unfortunately or maybe fortunately for me, I've not had the privilege apart from seeing it on discovery. but that's what's so great about being able to share on a forum like this. I can access your knowledge and offer you my own experiences in return.

It's a great world for those seeking knowledge. All we have to do is ask and listen.


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## Mister Magpie

Thanks for the input guys. I appreciate the perspective and would love to see some examples of what you have accomplished. Like e-shot I have limited tools. It would be great to see the potential possible with a few tools.


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## AK Rick

Google "The woodright's shop" Roy Underhill is an American pioneer in traditional wood craft, he can do a far better job than I and a couple of pics of my stuff ever could! The way things were once constructed with the qualities of the materials in mind is fascinating! Several styles of chair had no fasteners but relied on the tension of bent wood alone to keep them together. In some examples for over 100 years.


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## trobbie66

I have a scroll saw like Es larger one. If the blade is put in so it cuts on the pull stroke, I find there is more control for strait cuts


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## ash

generic said:


> I don't think thee is a hand tool capable of this.


Sure there is, a hand plane will do it:










You can even make one:










But in this case, a full sheet of 80 grit sandpaper glued to a flat board or glass will let you flatten a slingshot blank in a matter of minutes. Lay the sandpaper/board on you bench/floor/lap and push/pull the blank back and forth across it and in circles with light pressure. Is there interest in a video tutorial for low-tool woodworking?


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## Mister Magpie

Ash,

I would be very interested in your video demonstrating making a laminated slingshot from start to finish using simple hand tools. That would be great, thanks.

Darren


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## Jeff Lazerface

i can shave 1/16th inch slices with a new pullsaw, as they dull they start to turn


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## ash

generic said:


> Ash,
> 
> I would be very interested in your video demonstrating making a laminated slingshot from start to finish using simple hand tools. That would be great, thanks.
> 
> Darren


OK, I'll see what I can rustle up. It won't be start to finish all in one go. I'll do it one topic at a time. Requests considered. Lamination is first.


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## e~shot

ash said:


> generic said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ash,
> 
> I would be very interested in your video demonstrating making a laminated slingshot from start to finish using simple hand tools. That would be great, thanks.
> 
> Darren
> 
> 
> 
> OK, I'll see what I can rustle up. It won't be start to finish all in one go. I'll do it one topic at a time. Requests considered. Lamination is first.
Click to expand...

Ash, don't forget to add setup by setup instructions with your sweet voice


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## ash

I'll do an accent/impersonation for lolz.


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## AK Rick

Glad Ash is doing this I do not have the time!!!!!!

You guys need to be thankful for his work! Lot more than doing the project involved here.


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## e~shot

I'm still confuse about PULLSAW, my question is both PULLSAW and BACK SAW are same?


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## trobbie66

A backsaw is for use in a mitre box. It has a strengthened back and cuts on the push stroke. As is the name pull saw cuts on the.......wait......pull stroke. Opposite to standard saws.


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## ash

Here's a picture of some backsaws... saws with reinforced backs:










The one at the top is both a pull saw and a back saw. The other two cut on the push stroke. It can get confusing when some people use "back saw" when they mean "pull saw". It may be easier to find a back saw in the second hand market, but easier to find a pull saw new. They are a relatively recent thing outside of Japan.

More info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_saw

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backsaw


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## e~shot

Just returned back from hardware stores, went to many but couldn't find pull saw. All are having back saw (no pull cut).

Another place I'm having trouble to cut both the forks parallel. So, I thought of buying a regular back saw and a miter box any suggestions?


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## Jeff Lazerface

with a back saw and miter box the girth of your blade will be 3/16th or so, if you cut agressively with it you will tear the wood. a brand new hack saw blade can be way smoother, you can buy differant tooth count blades cheep. But with any saw, as they dull they will turn. Also a hacksaw is very very hard to use, it take much practice.

so my suggestion is a good hacksaw with good blades you can use a miter box with one if you careful. a hacksaw can only cut 4" deep unless you buy a plumbers saw, some can do 10 inches. I will do a video and show main reason issues poeple have with sawing and filing strait and square, but i need batteries, Ill do one this weekend.

In short, when you use a handsaw your arm becomes the saw, the more strait and perfect you use your saw the better the results. when i am cutting a thin slab by hand I will have 1-3 differant strait edges and check my cut every few strokes, like on a 4 inch cut i will check my cut 20-30 times. If your work is level and square you can put a square to you saw blade to keep you strait.

When a plumbers helper cuts a pipe crooked his boss will tell him "cut me 20,1/8th inch pieces of 4 inch pipe." This is do or die if you cant cut strait you cant do plumbing.

Great saw and practice, cut slabs of scrap and laminate. You must be a master with a hand saw to do laminating, or you sand and file.

The more i think about it the more problems i come up with that most poeple would overlook, like is your blade tearing the wood or cutting it. This is not a simple thing and the art of using a tool perfectly takes alot of practice. If you have the right wood and very skilled with a saw, you can laminate with a 4 foot bow saw, if its sharp. Do you have a couple squares?? You probably are missing some percision measuring tools.


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## Jeff Lazerface

Dont be down on yourself, probably only 1 out of 100 people can cut a 10" pvc pipe perfectly straight with a hand saw. If you use a saw like the idiot on that video you will fail. You must draw the cut line ALL the way arround, not just one side. The video does not show him bending 20 pulls saws, they edited that out, A pull saw is very very fragile, you will bend and ruin them, or break teeth. They dont last long. If you try to frame a house with a pull saw, it will eat up 4-5 pull saws. I will guess that if carefull you can cut a 2x4 60 times befor it starts cutting crooked.


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## e~shot

Some useful info about types of saws link


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## flipgun

#7 from the top. I have this picture in my head of someone hand cutting veneer in Ye Olde Tymes. They had two rails of a certain height(in your case 1Cm) and a few inches wide. They locked the donor block between them, laid the saw flat on the guide rails and keeping it flat on the rails sawed down the length of the block. With #7 which I think is commonly called a "Japanese saw" you only lose the thickness of the saw from the material. Might work for you. No icon for "shrug".


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## e~shot

After watching this video. Now I need a bandsaw anic: . Another question, is the same task on the video can be done with scroll saw?


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## cjs

Here's how I would accomplish cutting your project in half, on the cheap.

Lay your part down on a bench, face down, so the way you want to cut is horizontal.
Make a rectangular frame that your part will lay inside of. This frame will need to be half the thickness of your part and will act as a guide.
Lay your saw down horizontal against the top of the frame and cut into all 4 sides (as stated above,but now you have a frame/jig to make sure they are all the same height).
Keep cutting through your part until you're done.


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## f00by

Backsaw is also known as a tenon saw if that makes it any more clear  They are generally used to cut tenons for mortise and tenon joints and are used for other small cutting tasks. To split a plank in 2 and you are willing to go the handsaw path the tool for the job is a well sharpened rip saw.






The plane will get it flush if you have good technique and a good plane. Sandpaper on a flat back (glass / marble) is the easiest way to go 

Good luck.


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## ash

Resawing is WAY harder to do than the guy in the (bandsaw) video makes it look. I couldn't make a cut like that unless the blade was brand new and the wood was perfect. It would be interesting to see how many veneers he could slice before one went astray.

A scroll saw isn't really a good tool to that job. A hand saw (specifically a rip saw) like the above video is better.


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## f00by

That's why I said "well sharpened"  All your hand tools should be well maintained for best results. I have tried the cut above and have been successful 1 in 10  I'm sure he has had more practice


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## trobbie66

Think about it guys, It hasent been many years since hand tools prevailed.Think about a guy cutting a vernier 200 years ago, a 2-3 hour process to get 1 square foot. Then 40 hours to do marquetry on a small box. The skill has been lost to mechanization. Very sad thought


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## f00by

The reason why I have researching and trying hand tool techniques for the past few months. My bandsaw has been lonely but I feel more respect for the wood and definitely more appreciation to all who have gone before me


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## ash

f00by said:


> That's why I said "well sharpened"  All your hand tools should be well maintained for best results. I have tried the cut above and have been successful 1 in 10  I'm sure he has had more practice


I meant the bandsaw guy  Post edited to clarify. Sharp is indeed good!


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## e~shot

f00by thanks for posting that video. Wonderful, first thing I learned is *marking gauge*, I was struggling other day with pencil and ruler to mark and I gave up, I know there is a tool for it but not know the exact name.


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## leon13

ash said:


> generic said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think thee is a hand tool capable of this.
> 
> 
> 
> Sure there is, a hand plane will do it:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You can even make one:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But in this case, a full sheet of 80 grit sandpaper glued to a flat board or glass will let you flatten a slingshot blank in a matter of minutes. Lay the sandpaper/board on you bench/floor/lap and push/pull the blank back and forth across it and in circles with light pressure. Is there interest in a video tutorial for low-tool woodworking?
Click to expand...

jip most deff we love videotuts

cheers

PS: u did that tool ? WOW !! very nice


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## ash

No, I didn't make that one, it's just a nice picture from Google Images.

Video tuts are in production.


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## Berkshire bred

if I was to try and do this I would probably use a band saw.


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## Rapier

Look, There are most certainly many ways to edge rip a thin board. Some work better than others depending on the wood you are working with or the options available not to mention how skilled you are. I wouldn't try something I'm not familiar with on an exotic piece of wood. If I needed it done I'd get it done at a shop. If I can wait, I'd practice on similar timber first. A pull saw is a fine instrument usually used for delicate work and could most certainly be used for this job especially if the timber is quite hard however If I had a bright rip saw I would probably opt for that over a pull saw as it would be faster although you might loose a little more material (thicker teeth and blade) but honestly I would sooner take it to a panel shop and get them to edge rip it in 2 seconds, go home and start work on what I wanted to build. If doing it the hardest way possible just so you can then claim "I did it all myself" is your thing then kudos to ya. Personally I'd rather spend that extra time having a nice Shiraz with my beautiful woman but that's just me.


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## ruthiexxxx

I'm making a lot of knife handles which gives me a choice of using 2 pieces of 1" wood with a LOT of wood to remove or ripsawing a piece of the 1" into 1/2" pieces. So I usually go for the latter. But I don't find it easy and sometimes go completely wrong and have to chuck the piece


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