# Taurus OTT slaps my fingers in front? Why



## caito222 (Jun 10, 2019)

I shoot multiple slingshots mostly ott. I really liked the fit of the Taurus in fact I ordered a TTF model.

1 This is the only OTT that slaps my fingers in front of the slingshot. I am using gold therabands if that matters. I has shot smaller OTT ie Jellybean and get no slap. Any ideas on how to solve this???? thanks


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

You talk about Taurus OTT or Mini Taurus OTT?


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## caito222 (Jun 10, 2019)

I was talking about the bill hayes taurus trio ie the OTT version that became available in august 2019. I see nothing on his site that refers to mini vs full size taurus. Hope this clears things us.


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## devils son in law (Sep 2, 2014)

I find that when that happens to me I'm shooting ammo too light for the bands I'm using.

It seems there's too much energy firing a small projectile that it recoils and slaps my hands.


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## SLING-N-SHOT (Jun 5, 2018)

Hmmmm.......interested to hear any comments on this one as I too ( as many of us did ) bought the Taurus OTT, but I haven't had time

to band mine up yet and give er a go. :iono:


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

Yep. Lots of index slapping with the Mini OTT.

I tried a different release, tried changing bands and pouch set ups, tried using the lanyard and finally gave up.

Ended banding the Tube Mini in OTT way using leather plugs like here:

















Works fine, no slapping.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

would you mind posting a picture of your setup? I only shoot tubes, but the two things that I found to stop hand slap was, shorten tubes, and or heavier ammo like DSL mentioned. Hopefully someone will have a solution to your problem.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Thank you for sharing


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Hand slap is caused by a mismatch between bands/pouch and ammo weight. If ammo is too light, a lot of energy remains in the bands when the ammo leaves the pouch. Use heavier ammo and/or lighter pouch..


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## M Mars (Jul 22, 2019)

I shoot 3/8" steel with precise 0.7 band's from pocket predator. No hand slap whatsoever. Love it!


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## spewing (Mar 13, 2016)

I also get hand slap using the Taurus OTT.

The same band set on my Torque was fine. I guess your fingers are closer to the bands with the Taurus than the Torque



Ordo said:


> Yep. Lots of index slapping with the Mini OTT.
> 
> I tried a different release, tried changing bands and pouch set ups, tried using the lanyard and finally gave up.
> 
> ...


I really like that.

I was shooting my Taurus tube shooter today with no slap. The idea of being able to change from tubes to flats quickly and back again on any slingshot really appeals.

I can't quite tell from the picture how it works. Is it lithely a plug of leather pushed through the hole holding the band in place?

Quick edit.

Ive just had a go at this and I found just wedging the band in place with a piece of leather didn't hold no mater how hard the leather was wedged in the hole but if I cut a piece of leather square the width of the tube and wrapped the band around it one and a half times, folded it in half and slotted it into the hole it held really well. In fact the band snapped long before the leather moved.


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

I can't quite tell from the picture how it works. Is it lithely a plug of leather pushed through the hole holding the band in place?

Exactly. Easy-peasy.


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## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

What Henry the Hermit said.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

I'm hoping that someone has a good remedy for the finger slaps. I shoot my *OTT Taurus* every day and have been working on finding a solution for 2 weeks now. I have tried various band cuts with Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm, Precise Orange .50mm, Precise Apple Green .40mm, Sumeike Pink .45mm, TBG, AliEx Yellow bands, AlixEx Orange bands... 1/4" steel, 7mm steel, 5/16" steel and 3/8" steel ammo. I always use a small microfiber pouch but have tried small soft leather as well. I have tried different hand positions but movement is limited with the short handle. I found that it's best to keep the index finger below the throat so it's not visible at full draw. With my medium hand size this will still leave most of my pinky on the handle but the digits are cramped. I have tried leaning forks forward, leaning back and keeping them straight. I tried flipping as well.

I'm thinking the slap problem might be inherent to the design... or maybe it's just me. The wrapped index finger is positioned right at the bottom of the throat. The recoiling bands seem to hit right at the bottom of the throat or top of yoke (where index finger rests). The only remedy that I have found is to shoot with the index finger straight and pointing at target but my accuracy suffers. The other possible option is to find a band & ammo combination that is tolerable for handslaps. I found Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm with tapers set to shoot 3/8" steel at approx 190-200fps is tolerable in warm weather. A skinny set of tapered yellows for 7mm at 220-230fps is not too bad either, although they still sometimes finger smack. I found that Precise Apple Green with 7mm steel will put a tear in your eye. The fast recoiling greens smack my finger with authority.

It's good to hear that some members have found the Mini-T pleasurable and not painful. I like the design and was hoping for a comfortable shooter. I actually bought two of the OTT versions with the thought of them being my go-to frames. One was going to be a light draw for 1/4" ammo and the other was for 5/16" at 240+ fps for long distance plinking. I like polycarb for a frame material and web contact designs are my favorite. Hopefully the problem is with something I am doing wrong that can be changed.

I enjoy shooting long distance and prefer a flat trajectory to reach 30 yards and beyond. I shoot 10 yards all winter so 20 is usually my short distance in the summer months. My many other OTT frames have allowed speeds up to 280fps with 1/4" steel without any painful slaps. I often flip with the faster bands (just happens) but slower 220-240fps are often held steady or have very little flip.

I'm still not giving up on the OTT Mini-T. Next I might try tying down some gypsy tabs with tubes. Eventually I may buy the TTF version as well. The small size, textured polycarb, narrow fork width and slick lanyard hole on this Taurus design are not something I want to give up until I have exhausted all avenues.


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

We are always told that finger slap is caused by ammo too light for the bands.

Or are tall fork posts more forgiving than low ones?


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## spewing (Mar 13, 2016)

mike160304 said:


> Or are tall fork posts more forgiving than low ones?


That would be my guess.

Just tried the loop shooter with bands as above and no hand slaps for the same size bands. They may be doing the same thing just further away from my fingers.


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

Spewing - that's a good test.


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## M Mars (Jul 22, 2019)

Northerner said:


> I'm hoping that someone has a good remedy for the finger slaps. I shoot my *OTT Taurus* every day and have been working on finding a solution for 2 weeks now. I have tried various band cuts with Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm, Precise Orange .50mm, Precise Apple Green .40mm, Sumeike Pink .45mm, TBG, AliEx Yellow bands, AlixEx Orange bands... 1/4" steel, 7mm steel, 5/16" steel and 3/8" steel ammo. I always use a small microfiber pouch but have tried small soft leather as well. I have tried different hand positions but movement is limited with the short handle. I found that it's best to keep the index finger below the throat so it's not visible at full draw. With my medium hand size this will still leave most of my pinky on the handle but the digits are cramped. I have tried leaning forks forward, leaning back and keeping them straight. I tried flipping as well.
> 
> I'm thinking the slap problem might be inherent to the design... or maybe it's just me. The wrapped index finger is positioned right at the bottom of the throat. The recoiling bands seem to hit right at the bottom of the throat or top of yoke (where index finger rests). The only remedy that I have found is to shoot with the index finger straight and pointing at target but my accuracy suffers. The other possible option is to find a band & ammo combination that is tolerable for handslaps. I found Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm with tapers set to shoot 3/8" steel at approx 190-200fps is tolerable in warm weather. A skinny set of tapered yellows for 7mm at 220-230fps is not too bad either, although they still sometimes finger smack. I found that Precise Apple Green with 7mm steel will put a tear in your eye. The fast recoiling greens smack my finger with authority.
> 
> ...


Are you using an anchor point out shooting full butterfly?


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Hi M Mars,

I always anchor with my thumb on my ear. Draw length is 32". I use this anchor point with all my OTT frames. I can shoot the Lion Mouth at 220-250fps without any slaps. Same slap-free shooting with the Feihu, Chunky Peghead, Popeye, OTT Jelly Bean and some others. All these frames have low profile forks.

In an attempt to help me understand frame differences, I took a series of images of the Taurus and a couple of my peghead frames that do not give me handslaps. All the frames have low forks. The only difference that is obvious would be the pinch width. I even started wrapping the Taurus band to the top of the forks.

I'm guessing that a full or partial butterfly might eliminate the slaps because of the longer bands. Unfortunately I don't do well with that shooting style.

The bands will recoil back to the frame. I'm trying to figure out how to get them to recoil higher up and through the throat rather than smacking the top of the yoke. Possibly a shorter or longer band length would do it. For a long band I would have to pick a band that operates well with a low stretch... and for a shorter it would be a band that still has somewhat of a life expectancy with above 500% stretch.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

What is the difference in fork height between the OTT and Looper versions (A vs B in pic below)?


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## Kalevala (Jul 20, 2014)

No hand slaps here - anymore 

First I tried Sobong Taichi 0,7 (20-10 mm) and hands slaps were really painful.

Then I tried Precise 0,55 3rd gen. (20-10 mm) and draw is light, good speeds and no hand slaps.

Only 8 mm steel shooting lately so I can't say, what is good with heavier ammo.

So just like Henry the Hermit says :thumbsup:


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Not enough weight to your ammo so your bands have too much energy left over. Increase your ammo size and you should retain your velocity but with a larger load.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Kalevala said:


> No hand slaps here - anymore
> 
> First I tried Sobong Taichi 0,7 (20-10 mm) and hands slaps were really painful.
> 
> ...


*Thanks for posting.*

*What are you getting for speeds with the 8 mm ammo?*

*Band length? *

*Draw length?*

Today I may have figured out a great band and ammo combo for the OTT Taurus. I wrap the bands to the top of the forks. Accuracy was good at 10 and 20 yards. No handslaps. Speed should be good for some longer distances. I cut the bands short (as someone suggested) and this may be the trick. I'm just happy to get this great little frame shooting with something... and not having finger pain.

*Band* = Gen2 Precise .55mm Yellow

*Cut* = 14mm x 9mm x 170mm (fork to pouch)

*Pouch* = 45mm x 12mm microfiber

*Ammo* = 7mm steel

*Draw* = 32"

*Speed *= 250fps


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## Kalevala (Jul 20, 2014)

Northerner said:


> Kalevala said:
> 
> 
> > No hand slaps here - anymore
> ...


I haven't done any speed measurements with this bandset, but 21,5 m is not a problem when shooting .

Bands are 16 cm.

Draw is 74 cm.


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## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

Northerner said:


> I'm hoping that someone has a good remedy for the finger slaps. I shoot my *OTT Taurus* every day and have been working on finding a solution for 2 weeks now. I have tried various band cuts with Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm, Precise Orange .50mm, Precise Apple Green .40mm, Sumeike Pink .45mm, TBG, AliEx Yellow bands, AlixEx Orange bands... 1/4" steel, 7mm steel, 5/16" steel and 3/8" steel ammo. I always use a small microfiber pouch but have tried small soft leather as well. I have tried different hand positions but movement is limited with the short handle. I found that it's best to keep the index finger below the throat so it's not visible at full draw. With my medium hand size this will still leave most of my pinky on the handle but the digits are cramped. I have tried leaning forks forward, leaning back and keeping them straight. I tried flipping as well.
> 
> I'm thinking the slap problem might be inherent to the design... or maybe it's just me. The wrapped index finger is positioned right at the bottom of the throat. The recoiling bands seem to hit right at the bottom of the throat or top of yoke (where index finger rests). The only remedy that I have found is to shoot with the index finger straight and pointing at target but my accuracy suffers. The other possible option is to find a band & ammo combination that is tolerable for handslaps. I found Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm with tapers set to shoot 3/8" steel at approx 190-200fps is tolerable in warm weather. A skinny set of tapered yellows for 7mm at 220-230fps is not too bad either, although they still sometimes finger smack. I found that Precise Apple Green with 7mm steel will put a tear in your eye. The fast recoiling greens smack my finger with authority.
> 
> ...


I grabbed my Mini and compared it to your photos. Where your pointer and thumb nearly touch, mine leave at least an inch between. Could it be that your fingers are just to long for this rig? It would seem that you have tried the weight band ratio to no avail. Bet you could shoot the bejeepers out of the Hathway sniper!


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

SJAaz said:


> Northerner said:
> 
> 
> > I'm hoping that someone has a good remedy for the finger slaps. I shoot my *OTT Taurus* every day and have been working on finding a solution for 2 weeks now. I have tried various band cuts with Gen2 Precise Yellow .55mm, Precise Orange .50mm, Precise Apple Green .40mm, Sumeike Pink .45mm, TBG, AliEx Yellow bands, AlixEx Orange bands... 1/4" steel, 7mm steel, 5/16" steel and 3/8" steel ammo. I always use a small microfiber pouch but have tried small soft leather as well. I have tried different hand positions but movement is limited with the short handle. I found that it's best to keep the index finger below the throat so it's not visible at full draw. With my medium hand size this will still leave most of my pinky on the handle but the digits are cramped. I have tried leaning forks forward, leaning back and keeping them straight. I tried flipping as well.
> ...


My index finger is only 2 7/8" when measured from between the middle&index fingers to the tip. Across my flattened palm is an even 4". I think my hands are about average. The pinch width across the front of the Mini-Taurus is only 2.0" and the circumference of the pinch section is 5 7/8".

When holding the Mini-T I could leave my thumb and index pointing forward to give a wide gap but I find it just doesn't feel secure or stable that way. I can leave the index finger and thumb loose and that gives about a 1" gap but then the tip of the index becomes the target for the recoiling pouch (with heavy bands).

Thanks for the Hathcock suggestion. I'm wondering about the Scorpion. It has the desirable web contact design that I prefer. The HTS puts pressure on the inside of the thumb which won't work for my aging hands.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Shortening the bands decreases the power of the bands and, therefore, your ammo/band is better balanced and the result is no handslap.

Latex can be completely counter-intuitive.

Several years ago I took 1 of the 2 bands of a 1 inch straight-cut band set and laid it out and cut it lengthwise so that I ended up with two tapered bands made from half the rubber of the original band set.

When I tied the new (half-the-rubber) bands on and clocked the speed the new band set shot faster that the original set.

Hand slap is left over energy. If you can instead harness that energy you will be able to shoot larger projectiles with the original band set and be rid of the hand slap or you can do what you did which is cut your bands to be less powerful.

Like I say, latex can be counter intuitive. It seems like we should just be able to add or remove rubbler and have a comensurate change in power, but it isn't always so.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Winnie said:


> Shortening the bands decreases the power of the bands and, therefore, your ammo/band is better balanced and the result is no handslap.
> 
> Latex can be completely counter-intuitive.
> 
> ...


The skinny Precise .55mm Yellow bands started at 220-230fps with 7mm steel but I still had some finger slapping (as mentioned on pg one). I shortened them a little and now get 250fps. The shorter length changes how the bands recoil so they are now comfortable to shoot (no slaps). In this case, shorter bands equals more speed and no finger slaps.

I had two shooting sessions today with no slaps at all with this new bandset and 7mm ammo. To say I am pleased is very much an understatement. I'm getting good speed, good accuracy and a comfortable shooter. My second session was on a pop can hanging at 20 yards. I ended up cutting the can in half. After taking a close-up pic I walked back to 20 yards and smacked the hanging half can 4 times in a row, followed by a bunch of hits with some misses as well.

I'll have to try experimenting with slightly heavier bands for 5/16" ammo. The plan is to keep them short to see if I can eliminate finger slaps while having more power for slightly larger ammo. My current rig shoots slower with larger ammo.


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## bigdh2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

M Mars said:


> I shoot 3/8" steel with precise 0.7 band's from pocket predator. No hand slap whatsoever. Love it!


The setup you have is perfect for check anchor and 3/8". If you pull back any further, you might start to get bandslap. If so, just go down to 1/2" wide bands.


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## bigdh2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

Winnie said:


> Shortening the bands decreases the power of the bands and, therefore, your ammo/band is better balanced and the result is no handslap.
> 
> Latex can be completely counter-intuitive.
> 
> ...


I have had the same experience. Winnie is right, almost maxing out will give you better performance overall and better to have narrow and shorter bands.


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

So, reading the replies so far, with very short fork posts, each shooter will find one combination of rubber and ammo that eliminates finger slap. Or several combinations.

But are longer fork posts more forgiving? Not everyone wants to change bands when he varies ammo weight?


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

mike160304 said:


> So, reading the replies so far, with very short fork posts, each shooter will find one combination of rubber and ammo that eliminates finger slap. Or several combinations.
> 
> But are longer fork posts more forgiving? Not everyone wants to change bands when he varies ammo weight?


The shorter posts are not always the problem. Check back to post #19 above to see two frame examples that have short posts but give me no handslaps. The pinch width on these two frames is wider and the design gives a slightly different hold. I can shoot longer bands, shorter bands, and different ammo weights without issues. The Mini-Taurus holds like a hammer frame and puts your fingers right where the bands often recoil back and hit. As you said, you have to find a band & ammo combo that works for you. The frame is a little picky.

The Mini-T might be a bit finicky to figure out but it's a sweet shooting frame. The hammer grip doesn't allow for much frame flip but this is the design and it works well. A web contact frame feels natural to shoot and takes pressure off the thumb tip for those who may have hand problems.

Yes, longer forks would likely allow for a wider variety of bands for this frame but then you lose a bit of leverage and possibly shooting comfort. I have a second OTT Taurus that I might experiment with.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

mike160304 said:


> So, reading the replies so far, with very short fork posts, each shooter will find one combination of rubber and ammo that eliminates finger slap. Or several combinations.
> 
> But are longer fork posts more forgiving? Not everyone wants to change bands when he varies ammo weight?


The problem with longer forks is that the longer the fork the longer the lever-arm and the more torque gets transferred to your wrist.

Bands are bands. If you have longer forks you may not get handslap but the wasted energy is still there. (BTW, my experience is that bands like this also wear out faster.)

My solution to this conundrum is to have a couple of slingshots ready to go with different bands. I carry one slingshot that handles 90% of my shoothing/hunting and a second slingshot set up to take 3/8 inch lead cubes for serious huntning.

As an aside: You can alter band length, width, thickness and taper to change band performance but the most important if these is taper.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Northerner said:

"...I shortened them a little and now get 250fps." (Up from 220-230.)

This is so classic for latex. It behaves so differently than we expect and it's one of the more fun parts of band design.


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## Hulla Baloo (Nov 25, 2017)

I'm a skinny band fan and I make no excuses

I experience no slap or knuckle abuses

Doc Winnie's advice proved truer than true

He saved me some rubber and my fingers aren't blue

I used to get bit, mistaking power for speed

Using so much more rubber than I really did need

Now I band so I feel the pouch cast the stone

Become aware of the weight, and then leave it alone...


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

I cut my own pouch's I have a large pouch like the rock chucker and when the leather is too thick I get hand slap.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Shooters shoot and soon realize

Ammo can vary in weight and size

Bands too may need to be changed

Length, width and thickness arranged

Ammo and bands in a balanced rig

Will make the target seem twice as big.

Watch, listen and finally do

He's giving good advice that Hulla Baloo


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

Northerner said:


> mike160304 said:
> 
> 
> > So, reading the replies so far, with very short fork posts, each shooter will find one combination of rubber and ammo that eliminates finger slap. Or several combinations.
> ...


Thanks - so it's about finger position, not just about fork post height, I can follow that.

I guess my "Wings" is about as opposite to the Mini Taurus OTT as one can get - see pic. Very high fork posts. very little "hand fitting" and I call the "wings" a fulcrum about which the frame rotates.

Totally out of fashion, of course, but a blast to shoot with ammo from 3.5 grammes (9.5mm steel equiv.) up to 8.4 grammes (1/2" steel equiv) or 10.6 grammes (1" ice balls, for a laugh).

It's all good fun though, innit?   

Mike


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

Winnie said:


> mike160304 said:
> 
> 
> > So, reading the replies so far, with very short fork posts, each shooter will find one combination of rubber and ammo that eliminates finger slap. Or several combinations.
> ...


Thanks Winnie, yes, I agree with all that, and I do match bands to ammo in the way you say, when I want to match one particular ammo weight.

But we all have a "favourite blast", and mine is my "Wings" design shown in my last reply above. I enjoy the "whip" feel of the high fork and the ability to use many ammo weights - sure, with power waste on the lighter stuff, but it's all just for fun. My fingers are pretty safe.

Anyway, I need to be out of fashion, I always was!!! 

Mike


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Glad I don't have these problems. shoot 20/40 tubes with 3/8 steel. 1842 with 7/16 steel and 1745 with 1/2 steel or lead. Easy no hand slap. Would rather shoot than get beat up by my slingshot.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Cjw said:


> Glad I don't have these problems. shoot 20/40 tubes with 3/8 steel. 1842 with 7/16 steel and 1745 with 1/2 steel or lead. Easy no hand slap. Would rather shoot than get beat up by my slingshot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Have you been shooting tubes on your OTT Taurus? Great idea. I should give that a go. Thanks!


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

Cjw said:


> Glad I don't have these problems. shoot 20/40 tubes with 3/8 steel. 1842 with 7/16 steel and 1745 with 1/2 steel or lead. Easy no hand slap. Would rather shoot than get beat up by my slingshot.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Wow! I didn't really give tubes a fair trial, I followed fashion into flatbands.

Have you chronographed these rigs? Are there different brands of tubes, and where do you buy the best ones? Do you use them looped or single?

Mike


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## bigdh2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

Now, remember, CJW has spent a lot of time learning the secrets of tubes. They are even more temperamental when it comes to getting the lengths right. There is also more variation between batches of supposedly the same size. There are several long threads where CJW, MJ and a few others discuss the secrets of tubes. Read through them.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Today I had another fun, pain-free shooting session with the *OTT Mini-Taurus. * No finger slaps. The trick that works for me is a shorter bandset and tying to the top of the forks. The bands are stretched 478%. The OTT-Mini-T shoots great once you get it figured out. I shoot with a lightly closed hand and let the bottom of the handle float a little from the back of my palm. Pop cans at 20 yards are not a problem.

*PP OTT Mini-Taurus*

Precise Yellow .55mm

15mm x 10mm x 170mm

7mm steel

32" draw

245-250 fps


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## mike160304 (Aug 10, 2018)

bigdh2000 said:


> Now, remember, CJW has spent a lot of time learning the secrets of tubes. They are even more temperamental when it comes to getting the lengths right. There is also more variation between batches of supposedly the same size. There are several long threads where CJW, MJ and a few others discuss the secrets of tubes. Read through them.


Thanks Dan.

Mike


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