# Tying Latex Bands With Twine or...?



## Thistle

I think this question got overlooked last week. In *Nathan's instructional video* (*at 3:10*), he is using twine to tie his latex bands. I've noticed that some are using latex ties instead of cotton twine. I have tubes that are tied with both twine and something stretchy. Does it matter?

And does the *type of twine* also matter? Or could I use aunt Lydia's cotton crochet thread? Thread is thread, right?

He is also using a *clove hitch *and securing it with... *Fly cement?* Do I have to use fly cement, or can I get away with the just the clove hitch if I tie it real tight?

*Cutting Slingshot Bands at Flippinout HQ* - 22Nov12


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## LVO

Thistle,

I use Chalk Line string and then a drop of clear fingernail polish. The constrictor knot is too complex for my brain and I just do a half knot on one side, wrap around, do another half knot, back to the front side and do a square knot. Fingernail polish on that knot.

Hope it's helpful!

A lot of guys use waxed string made for shoe repair. I will try that one soon, I hope.


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## e~shot

I use bees waxed cotton twine with constrictor knot so far no problem.


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## treefork

Generally a cotton butchers twine is used. Any thing similar should be fine, The glue is not necessary if you use a constrictor

knot. The cinch knot is less likely to slip . Some guys prefer the twine over the latex wrap because it's lighter. The latex requires less of a prestrech due to the contriction of the latex wrap.


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## Henry the Hermit

I use waxed string that I buy from a leather shop tied with a constrictor knot. I've never had one come loose.


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## All Buns Glazing

I use
* constrictor knots with cotton twine (sold as cooking twine here) rubbed through hot wax
* latex binding (probably going to be doing this for a little while as I've just made a band tying jig and it's easier than before)

* finger cuff tube attachment

I think it's generally thought at the moment, at least by a few of us, that light knots and lightly bound latex is more accurate than tube cuffs. I'm not sure it's in my head, but I've been more accurate since I switched to constrictor knot exclusively.

The constrictor knot isn't difficult if you watch some videos on it and practice. The way I do it, it takes about 4 seconds to form the constrictor knot, but any kind of self-tightening knot will work, but the constrictor knot is :king:


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## BrokenPins

I've done it both ways but the constrictor knot is my attachment of choice now. Doesn't budge, I tie them with cheapo embroidery thread and haven't had one fail yet, even with doubled tubes. I square knot the tag ends after because I'm neurotic and I don't use any nail polish or glue... For heavy tubes I just double the thread before tying the knots, works fine.

Tex says elastic pouch ties cause fliers and I trust his knowledge but I can't say I've ever noticed this personally. I just like the constrictor knot the best (and it's what many of the "pro's" recommended) I have had elastic pouch ties quit before the bands did and THAT is annoying.


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## Thistle

Okay. It sounds like *cotton twine or waxed string* is the way to go. I have to check out rasps when I go to the hardware store next week. They probably have this stuff. I've just never paid any attention before.

I'm gonna have to check out those other two knots you guys are mentioning -- the *constrictor and cinch*. I've probably seen them, but don't know the names.

Thanks, guys. This is exactly what I needed.


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## lightgeoduck

Since people already face you twine answers, I will share what I use for flat bands, easy, and never had issues.. Doesn't hinder my accuracy either http://slingshotforum.com/topic/17420-how-to-use-cotton-tape-to-attach-band-sets-to-your-pouch-and-fork/?hl=+cotton%20+tape

No need to learn to tie either


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## Tex-Shooter

We ran some test with the pouch connections tied with cotton twine and with latex in several different ways. The ones tied with cotton twine shot a more consistent group than those tied with rubber. -- Tex


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## LVO

lightgeoduck said:


> Since people already face you twine answers, I will share what I use for flat bands, easy, and never had issues.. Doesn't hinder my accuracy either http://slingshotforum.com/topic/17420-how-to-use-cotton-tape-to-attach-band-sets-to-your-pouch-and-fork/?hl=+cotton%20+tape
> 
> No need to learn to tie either


I need to try this! Had to watch video again. Can't get any more simple than that....which, for me, is a good thing!


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## Thistle

LGD, that's pretty darn clever. I had not seen this. There's so much stuff it gets hard to see the trees cuz the forest keeps blocking the view. I don't know what I just said, but it sounds good. 

Thank you.


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## mr. green

Very helpful. Thanks for all the information.
Question : Is there a way of tying without using any tools or help from another person? The only way I can think of is by using latex/elastic. Even then, I won't be able to stretch.


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## lightgeoduck

mr. green said:


> Very helpful. Thanks for all the information.Question : Is there a way of tying without using any tools or help from another person? The only way I can think of is by using latex/elastic. Even then, I won't be able to stretch.


You could use really tiny zip ties, but you may have to change how you anchor, as not to get "bit". I have used them with good results, but mostly for tubes... Since...well, I use cotton tape for flats.

You might like it, you might not, but it is worth a try.

LGD


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## mr. green

Thanks LGD. Lately, I've been practising butterfly and on a few occasions received some facial. I can't imagine if I have zip ties on..........Mr. Green transforms to Mr. Scarface.


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## All Buns Glazing

The zip tie idea terrifies me. Soft cotton, or 200ft per second sharp plastic  I'd like to try the cotton tape as you know, just gotta find the right kind for cheap.


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## BrokenPins

mr. green said:


> Very helpful. Thanks for all the information.
> Question : Is there a way of tying without using any tools or help from another person? The only way I can think of is by using latex/elastic. Even then, I won't be able to stretch.


When I do mine I pre-tie the constrictor knot loosely around the pouch, clamp the pouch to a table or counter with a spring clamp (cheap), then pull the tubes / bands to stretch em. Slip the knot off the pouch onto the stretched tubes with my free hand and pull it tight with my hand and teeth. Done.

Give it a try, it's easy enough that I haven't built a band jig and I have plenty of supplies to build one...


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## mr. green

Yes, that's it.........pre-tying. That'll work. Thanks Broken Pins.


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## BrokenPins

mr. green said:


> Yes, that's it.........pre-tying. That'll work. Thanks Broken Pins.


You got it bud


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## ZorroSlinger

How about using 'string' to tie flatbands/tubes to leather or paracord tabs on forks and at same time doing bands/tubes prestretch!! If you think about it, somewhat tricky. I figured out my awkward way by inserting slingshot handle in vise, teeth to grip one end of string, and bungee cord hooked onto spring clamp attached to band to do the prestretch. I like using string but using rubber ties 'in the field' seems easier than string. With rubber ties, you do not necessarily require tying jig setups.


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## All Buns Glazing

+1 on Mr greens method. That's exactly how I used to do it, too.


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## jhinaz

This is a great topic......thanks for sharing. Both of those videos are well done and are very informative.

I have a question (that may have been mentioned in another thread but I don't think it was discussed in this thread): If cotton twine and constrictor knot work perfectly for connecting the pouch, would it also work perfectly for connecting flat-bands to the slingshot frame? - John


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## All Buns Glazing

jhinaz said:


> This is a great topic......thanks for sharing. Both of those videos are well done and are very informative.
> 
> I have a question (that may have been mentioned in another thread but I don't think it was discussed in this thread): If cotton twine and constrictor knot work perfectly for connecting the pouch, would it also work perfectly for connecting flat-bands to the slingshot frame? - John


Short answer is no. Can work for connecting tubes directly to a gypsy tab, but their power comes from biting into the tube and compressing it, holding on. The frame is hard, so it won't grip well. Latex binding is great for that.


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## TimR

I was in the thrift shop today and saw a big spool of crochet thread, so I bought it. 2000 yards for $4.

Looks like a lifetime supply, if this stuff is any good. Will this work? It looks similar to butcher's twine - maybe half way between thread and yarn. Do I need to wax it? Seems like that would make it slip.

Up until now i've only used rubber bands for tying.


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## Popcorn

mr. green said:


> Very helpful. Thanks for all the information.
> Question : Is there a way of tying without using any tools or help from another person? The only way I can think of is by using latex/elastic. Even then, I won't be able to stretch.


What I have tried is loosely tying a constrictor knot, slipping it over the pouch, and clamping the band with a couple pieces of plywood, held with the big toe of one foot. Then stretch a little, hold the pouch with the other big toe, and tighten the knot using both hands. Like so:


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## mr. green

Popcorn said:


> mr. green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very helpful. Thanks for all the information.
> Question : Is there a way of tying without using any tools or help from another person? The only way I can think of is by using latex/elastic. Even then, I won't be able to stretch.
> 
> 
> 
> What I have tried is loosely tying a constrictor knot, slipping it over the pouch, and clamping the band with a couple pieces of plywood, held with the big toe of one foot. Then stretch a little, hold the pouch with the other big toe, and tighten the knot using both hands. Like so:
Click to expand...

I like this, Montana style. Thanks for sharing Popcorn.


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## Imperial

im a lil surprised no one has mentioned dental floss. its waxed thread and on the plus side, it comes in flavors !


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## Thistle

@TimR

Here's my uneducated opinion on the subject of *crochet thread vs twine*.

I don't know anything about the 'twine' stuff these guys are talking about--yet. It's on my to-do list. In the meantime, what I know about and understand is thread. One of my many hobbies is _frivolité_ (shuttle lace).

Crochet comes in different sizes from 3 to 100. The smallest numbers equals the largest diameter. *Comparing size 10 to the twine that currently ties my latex tubes to the pouch, it looks to be the same diameter*. So we'll use 10. It sounds like this is the size you also have.

*But what is the difference, if they are both cotton thread?* (keep in mind I don't know twine, but I know something about decorative thread). Crochet thread is mercerized cotton. What this basically means is that it has a denser pile and lustrous sheen to it. Also known as 'pearle' cotton. The mercerization treatment makes thread stronger too. Because this type of thread is for decorative fiber arts, such as crochet or lacemaking, it's also prettier. Costly too. Something like butcher's twine would most likely be cheaper, especially if you use quite a bit.

Crochet thread would not have this fuzzy or hairy look. It would not make pretty lace.

*To wax or not to wax? *I'm guessing again. You can wax if you want to. If it's *pure bee's wax*, then if won't be slippery. You wouldn't need wax for pearlized crochet thread. It doesn't fray or pull apart easily. Looking at the twine on my latex tubes, it very much has frayed cut ends. I'm calling it bearded ends. I can see where running it through a ball of bee's wax or even adding a drop of cement would be helpful to ensure the thread won't fray further or the knot won't come undone.

If you've got a size 20 or 30, then I believe the diameter is too small. Use at least a size 10*.*

I hope this lesson in crochet thread helps.


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## Imperial

Thistle said:


> @TimR
> 
> Here's my uneducated opinion on the subject of *crochet thread vs twine*.
> 
> I don't know anything about the 'twine' stuff these guys are talking about--yet. It's on my to-do list. In the meantime, what I know about and understand is thread. One of my many hobbies is _frivolité_ (shuttle lace).
> 
> Crochet comes in different sizes from 3 to 100. The smallest numbers equals the largest diameter. *Comparing size 10 to the twine that currently ties my latex tubes to the pouch, it looks to be the same diameter*. So we'll use 10. It sounds like this is the size you also have.
> 
> *But what is the difference, if they are both cotton thread?* (keep in mind I don't know twine, but I know something about decorative thread). Crochet thread is mercerized cotton. What this basically means is that it has a denser pile and lustrous sheen to it. Also known as 'pearle' cotton. The mercerization treatment makes thread stronger too. Because this type of thread is for decorative fiber arts, such as crochet or lacemaking, it's also prettier. Costly too. Something like butcher's twine would most likely be cheaper, especially if you use quite a bit.
> 
> Crochet thread would not have this fuzzy or hairy look. It would not make pretty lace.
> 
> *To wax or not to wax? *I'm guessing again. You can wax if you want to. If it's *pure bee's wax*, then if won't be slippery. You wouldn't need wax for pearlized crochet thread. It doesn't fray or pull apart easily. Looking at the twine on my latex tubes, it very much has frayed cut ends. I'm calling it bearded ends. I can see where running it through a ball of bee's wax or even adding a drop of cement would be helpful to ensure the thread won't fray further or the knot won't come undone.
> 
> If you've got a size 20 or 30, then I believe the diameter is too small. Use at least a size 10*.*
> 
> I hope this lesson in crochet thread helps.


OMG ! :aahhhh: i actually understood thistle .


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## Thistle

Imperial said:


> Thistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hope this lesson in crochet thread helps.
> 
> 
> 
> OMG ! :aahhhh: i actually understood thistle .
Click to expand...

Finally! Laughing... It's called progress.


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## SHTF Slingshots

All Buns Glazing said:


> I use
> * constrictor knots with cotton twine (sold as cooking twine here) rubbed through hot wax
> * latex binding (probably going to be doing this for a little while as I've just made a band tying jig and it's easier than before)
> 
> * finger cuff tube attachment
> 
> I think it's generally thought at the moment, at least by a few of us, that light knots and lightly bound latex is more accurate than tube cuffs. I'm not sure it's in my head, but I've been more accurate since I switched to constrictor knot exclusively.
> 
> The constrictor knot isn't difficult if you watch some videos on it and practice. The way I do it, it takes about 4 seconds to form the constrictor knot, but any kind of self-tightening knot will work, but the constrictor knot is :king:


I looked at roughly 4 pics of Wikipedia and learned to do it in around 10 seconds every time.

It's forming the cross that gets me, every time.


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## All Buns Glazing

In my experience with twine, waxing cotton twine has the following obvious benefits for me


Lubricates the string so it ties tighter
Holds the constrictor knot in place after tying it as the string is more rigid
Increases the speed of my shot by 35fps (ok, I made that up)

I pull my cotton cooking twine through a warm piece of cheap candle wax. Not once has it come undone.


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## TimR

Thistle said:


> @TimR
> 
> Here's my uneducated opinion on the subject of *crochet thread vs twine*.
> 
> Crochet comes in different sizes from 3 to 100. The smallest numbers equals the largest diameter. *Comparing size 10 to the twine that currently ties my latex tubes to the pouch, it looks to be the same diameter*. So we'll use 10. It sounds like this is the size you also have.


Thanks, very helpful post.

There are no markings on this old spool except a tiny label inside the core that says Indian Head Yarn and Thread, not less than 2000 yards. So I don't know the size, but to the eye it is not much different from butcher's twine. I can break it pulling with my hands but it takes considerable effort.


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## TimR

Argh. I have just realized I've totally misunderstood this tying method.

When I was about 9 years old I had a Whamo with flat bands. Of course i was always replacing bands, and I made a number of board cuts back then. (ahem. 51 years ago) I always tied the bands the same way the OEM band came, wrapped with about 50 turns of thin thread, and the end pulled under several wraps with a loop.

But I had more patience and better eyes back then. More recently I've been just using thin rubber bands to tie, I never went back to string.

Now watching those videos, I see there are not multiple wraps and a big lump of thread topped off with a constrictor knot, just one knot. So I see why the twine has to be the right thickness.

I like those tying jigs. I'd make one tonight, but I've had a beer, and I have an absolute rule: no power tools after even one beer. Drive a car, fly a plane, steer a boat may be okay, but not power tools, even a safe one like a drill press.


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## halbart

BrokenPins said:


> mr. green said:
> 
> 
> 
> Very helpful. Thanks for all the information.
> Question : Is there a way of tying without using any tools or help from another person? The only way I can think of is by using latex/elastic. Even then, I won't be able to stretch.
> 
> 
> 
> When I do mine I pre-tie the constrictor knot loosely around the pouch, clamp the pouch to a table or counter with a spring clamp (cheap), then pull the tubes / bands to stretch em. Slip the knot off the pouch onto the stretched tubes with my free hand and pull it tight with my hand and teeth. Done.
> Give it a try, it's easy enough that I haven't built a band jig and I have plenty of supplies to build one...
Click to expand...

Me too, except that I use a nail in the bench to hook the 'opposite' pouch-hole over. None of my things with cheap cotton string have failed. As Pins will know, you can pre-form a loose (ready to use constrictor knot) with just a couple of twists of the string.


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## Thistle

TimR said:


> There are no markings on this old spool except a tiny label inside the core that says Indian Head Yarn and Thread, not less than 2000 yards. So I don't know the size, but to the eye it is not much different from butcher's twine. I can break it pulling with my hands but it takes considerable effort.


Indian Head? You've got some *vintage* stuff there. Could be a hundred years old. I wanna shop at your thrift shop. Laughing.

People, who are into the fiber arts, collect stuff like this. Check ebay to see what kind of interest there might be. You'll have to be the judge whether you think it's strong enough to use. I'd find something else. Maybe make a trade with Grandma. Your vintage crochet stuff for her butcher's twine and a chunk of bee's wax. That's a fair deal.


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## TimR

Thistle said:


> Indian Head? You've got some *vintage* stuff there. Could be a hundred years old. I wanna shop at your thrift shop. Laughing.
> 
> People, who are into the fiber arts, collect stuff like this. Check ebay to see what kind of interest there might be. You'll have to be the judge whether you think it's strong enough to use. I'd find something else. Maybe make a trade with Grandma. Your vintage crochet stuff for her butcher's twine and a chunk of bee's wax. That's a fair deal.


I looked up butcher's twine, and it breaks at 26 pounds. That seems a lot, it must be thicker than I remembered.

So I tested the Indian Head crochet thread, first with dumbbells (held the 5 pound, broke on the 10 pound) then with a fish scale (broke at 8 pounds). Roughly 1/3 the strength of butcher's twine. Oh well, I have plenty of it. I'm not sure where to buy butcher's twine, I'll have to look around.


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## TimR

TimR said:


> Thistle said:
> 
> 
> 
> Indian Head? You've got some *vintage* stuff there. Could be a hundred years old. I wanna shop at your thrift shop. Laughing.
> 
> People, who are into the fiber arts, collect stuff like this. Check ebay to see what kind of interest there might be. You'll have to be the judge whether you think it's strong enough to use. I'd find something else. Maybe make a trade with Grandma. Your vintage crochet stuff for her butcher's twine and a chunk of bee's wax. That's a fair deal.
> 
> 
> 
> I looked up butcher's twine, and it breaks at 26 pounds. That seems a lot, it must be thicker than I remembered.
> 
> So I tested the Indian Head crochet thread, first with dumbbells (held the 5 pound, broke on the 10 pound) then with a fish scale (broke at 8 pounds). Roughly 1/3 the strength of butcher's twine. Oh well, I have plenty of it. I'm not sure where to buy butcher's twine, I'll have to look around.
Click to expand...

So. My crochet thread is 8 pound test, butcher's twine is 26 pound test.

But that video used the guts of a piece of paracord. And I just happened to have emptied a 3 foot piece of paracord to make a shoe lace, so I had 7 little strands that make up the inside. (came from the same thrift shop I got the crochet thread. I bought a lot of it but it was all in 3 foot chunks. I think somebody swept the floor in a parachute shop and sold it)

So how strong is that stuff? I dunno, but I tied a strand to a 50 pound dumbbell and it lifted it fine.


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## Thistle

TimR said:


> But that video used the guts of a piece of paracord. And I just happened to have emptied a 3 foot piece of paracord to make a shoe lace, so I had 7 little strands that make up the inside. (came from the same thrift shop I got the crochet thread. I bought a lot of it but it was all in 3 foot chunks. I think somebody swept the floor in a parachute shop and sold it)
> 
> So how strong is that stuff? I dunno, but I tied a strand to a 50 pound dumbbell and it lifted it fine.


Paracord is great stuff. I love it. Lots of cool uses for it. I'm uncertain about using it for tying bands tho. *You may have some difficulty getting those knots to stay*, but I have not tried the *constrictor* yet, so maybe I'm wrong. I only know that most survivalists don't seem to like using Paracord threads ('guts') for knots. Synths usually need to be glued or melted to secure a knot. Although fishermen have stated that they've used the blood knot for joining lines together. That won't work for tying bands. You may have to do some experimenting. I applaud your tenacity for making use of what you've got. 

Also... You got me really curious about crochet thread. I don't have any of your vintage stuff. I have some DMC Cebelia 30. It lifts a 20# dumbell, but broke with the 30#. It's pretty strong stuff. I'm still gonna look for twine. Crude, hairy-type threads would hold knots better.


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