# Shooting Flechettes (short arrows)



## JoergS

It is time that I start to experiment with flechettes.

Yes, I am hesistant because of the fear to hit my hand. But then again, hitting my hand with a powerful steel ball would be just as painful, right?

Also, even the Combow was available with flechette bands and the web site offered the flechettes.

So I have ordered cross bow pistol bolts and will adapt them for a "string" pouch. basically I will add a notch just behind the tip.

I plan to mount the slingshot for the first tests, so I can make sure there is no danger for my hand.

I also ordered an 80lbs pistol crossbow to compare the speed I am getting from both weapons.

Has anyone done this before? I'd appreciate your input.

Jörg


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## ZDP-189

I think what you're doing is admirable, but off-the-scale dangerous and I'd hate to think that others might try to copy it and severely hurt themselves.

I've shot a lot of strange shaped ammo, but I did it the timid (i.e. semi-prudent) way, with this bad boy. The idea is to keep my face and hands as far out of the path of danger as possible.


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## JoergS

Dan, I was afraid too - but why should shooting that arrow be any more dangerous than shooting a ball? At the energy level I am at, a hit with the ball on my hand would be just as devastating as hitting it with that arrow. Or do you think the arrow won't fly as straight as the ball would?

Anyway, I am planning to do many test shots from a safe position BEHIND the slingshot. Will also record the shots at 1200 fps so I know what is really happening.


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## ZDP-189

I tried shooting miniature darts, not as weapons, but for a laugh and into a dart board. I thought I could achieve better accuracy than throwing it by hand. I was wrong. The darts heads were too light for the fins. I scaled up to bigger darts, but the flights would fly off because the velocity was too high. I glued them in, but the transition from vertical in the pouch to level flight was hazardous and unpredictable. I never tried horizontal launch like a crossbow. That would be too weapon-like for my fun-inspired purposes. That's the way to go though, IMO. Unless you can guide it in a channel, I would fire it with the traction leading from the tip, rather than pushing from the tail. A sabot may work.

One of the few designs that worked well was the finned football you see below. It and its brothers were shot nose down in the pouch (foolishly from a regular hand catty) and always hit nose on. I didn't do any serious bench testing of accuracy or velocity. I was working towards the next stop being expanding or frangible shot that would dump energy and not penetrate or rebound. Like the Glaser Safety Slug this was intended as a safety feature. Most of these mechanisms depend on deforming in a predictable was with one end hitting first, so I needed fins. I was unable to determine whether making expanding ammo would be illegal, so I stopped there.










If you are to make fins, they need to be small enough not to reduce velocity. The way reduce drag and not lose too much control authority is to put a tail on. That's why darts and aeroplanes and helicopters have tails. Darts with long tails won't last more than one shot, obviously.

I guess the reason you want to do this project is spin stabilisation. For that you don't need a tail. There's really little point doing it to reduce cross sectional area. There are easier ways to reduce drag. The only other reason one might want to add a fin might to be make penetrators. Unless you're shooting at flak jackets that's not necessary as for hunting, you really want to dump energy and stun or kill the prey rather than stabbing it. If you are doing it for penetrating body armour, I'd rather not know about it.


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## JoergS

I was thinking about such arrows, shot in horizontal position:

http://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=2803564&PHPSESSID=5477752154e71c1d6687897abcff11eb#img


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## dragonmaster

I seen a slingshot type shooter on a web page that shot darts that connected to the bands at the tip that seems a safer way to go


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## ZDP-189

dragonmaster said:


> I seen a slingshot type shooter on a web page that shot darts that connected to the bands at the tip that seems a safer way to go


That's what Jörg's post shows.

Jörg, that should work, but I'm not sure what it will accomplish. Accuracy? Flatter trajectory? More power? Maybe it's worth a test, if it can be done safely.


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## JoergS

I am looking for penetration. Lots of people want to hunt with slingshots, and I believe that full size arrows don't work well. They limit the draw length, and are fairly heavy.

But the short, lightweight flechettes may do the job.

Jörg


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## dragonmaster

Sorry I missed that. what I got from the page I was reading this was hunting sling similar to the sling cat.


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## Dayhiker

Them darts look very bad-a$$ Go for it Joerg!


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## A+ Slingshots

This has been an interest of mine in the past. Shooting "darts" (small arrows) seems to be common in some other countries like the Phillipines as a tool of defense and hunting. They are shot sometimes from a single stalk, but also regular slingshots with a cord between the bands instead of a pouch. One name is a "Pana" which strangely I believe just means "bow". Here are a couple of pics I've collected on the subject.



















Here is an interesting link as well:
dart patent

An interesting thread:
Filipino Archery


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

I have no pictures or links as I'm not very good with computers, but I know of a blowgun site, with darts that have given me an idea ... basically, a small ball, with quite a large bradhead arrow-tip on it; the ball is placed in the pouch tip out and with almost no difference in the grip and release. If you find it loses it's path, might I suggest a small piece of string (like a kite tail) glued to the back. Just an idea, we are not allowed to shoot any type of dart or arrow I believe (here in the UK) so I don't want to encourage any law breaking. And protect that hand for certain. Good luck, I love to hunt!


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## ZDP-189

I think that's to discourage football supporters.


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## ZDP-189

Perry, in your link someone wrote:



> The accurate range is about 20feet (maybe 25 max?) away. The arrow will start to tumble after a certain distance.


Did you do any testing or research to test this and what was the reason for the instability?


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## JoergS

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> a small ball, with quite a large bradhead arrow-tip on it; the ball is placed in the pouch tip out and with almost no difference in the grip and release. If you find it loses it's path, might I suggest a small piece of string (like a kite tail) glued to the back.


I think such a projectile would start to tumble very quickly, tail or not.


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## A+ Slingshots

ZDP-189 said:


> Perry, in your link someone wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The accurate range is about 20feet (maybe 25 max?) away. The arrow will start to tumble after a certain distance.
> 
> 
> 
> Did you do any testing or research to test this and what was the reason for the instability?
Click to expand...

I've done a bit of work on the idea quite a few years ago. Frankly, I abandoned the work because it felt too risky and I decided that with lead ammo a slingshot works perfectly well on small game without any dart or arrow. However, I never saw them begin to tumble when fired. The one thing that is critical is that the notch to cord or wire connection work perfectly, and that different darts need the "tassel" bigger or smaller. If it does not release well, it could hang and travel in an arc into your leg or just return back like the pen in Joerg's recent video.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

ZDP-189 said:


> I think that's to discourage football supporters.


Ha! It actually comes from people being stuck with big bits of sharp wood while they're enjoying a day out; but I have seen football supporters thowing coins with enough power to take out small game?


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

I think such a projectile would start to tumble very quickly, tail or not.
[/quote]

Do you think a 4 bladed tip might help? or perhaps a tail with a weight on the end, so the shot would have two balls essentially, one smaller than the other?


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## ZDP-189

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Do you think a 4 bladed tip might help? or perhaps a tail with a weight on the end, so the shot would have two balls essentially, one smaller than the other?


Firing a short four bladed broadhead is not unlike trying to throw a dart backwards.

I remember as a kid reading about an ancient Japanese weapon called a Shuriken (nb/ not a star) a rod with two sharp points. This was thrown overhand end over end. It's relevant here because it took great skill to master. You need three or more points. Any projectile with more than one orientation or point may fall foul of laws banning 'throwing stars' in most jurisdictions.

No, the only passive ways to stabilise a flying point are to place the centre of drag behind the centre of mass behind the impact point (weathervane) and/or to spin stabilise.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Firing a short four bladed broadhead is not unlike trying to throw a dart backwards.

I remember as a kid reading about an ancient Japanese weapon called a Shuriken (nb/ not a star) a rod with two sharp points. This was thrown overhand end over end. It's relevant here because it took great skill to master. You need three or more points. Any projectile with more than one orientation or point may fall foul of laws banning 'throwing stars' in most jurisdictions.

No, the only passive ways to stabilise a flying point are to place the centre of drag behind the centre of mass behind the impact point (weathervane) and/or to spin stabilise.
[/quote]

Thanks, I thought it might be the case, I know Shuriken well and they are difficult.


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## JoergS

Well, I guess we have to wait for the weekend, when my tests will start. I will take every possible precaution. We will see!


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## harpersgrace

Joerg, If I remember correctly the Combow Slingshot could be used to fire short arrows of the type you are talking about. It had a rather wide metal wrist brace that probably offered some protection. I had thought that I might make a version of your Wristshot to shoot short arrows with a deck of some type to protect the back of the hand but I never seem to get around to it.


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## JoergS

Yes, saw these arrows on the combow website (it is still online).

We will see if protection is needed. The safety tests will shed some light on the issue.

Jörg


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## Nico

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCZz0L8QLF0


JoergS said:


> It is time that I start to experiment with flechettes.
> 
> Yes, I am hesistant because of the fear to hit my hand. But then again, hitting my hand with a powerful steel ball would be just as painful, right?
> 
> Also, even the Combow was available with flechette bands and the web site offered the flechettes.
> 
> So I have ordered cross bow pistol bolts and will adapt them for a "string" pouch. basically I will add a notch just behind the tip.
> 
> I plan to mount the slingshot for the first tests, so I can make sure there is no danger for my hand.
> 
> I also ordered an 80lbs pistol crossbow to compare the speed I am getting from both weapons.
> 
> Has anyone done this before? I'd appreciate your input.
> 
> Jörg[


Hi Joerg

Here's an example from a war torn East Timor where guns are banned and the Slingshot is the weapon of choice they make their "hook darts" from pieces of rebar. They use these darts/bolts for hunting and killing other humans. Medical reports exist and here is a video if I can attach it I hope, that shows Australian troops demonstrating these impressive weapons which are a real threat.

You wont see the slingshots till about 2:55 of the video and a demonstration from the non trained hands of the soldiers.

Here's some pictures of an old slingshot made for this and some of the bolts they use.

They also use traditional form of slingshots to shoot stones at people and animals..

























I hope this helps and I can find some medical and police reports of what has been done with these..


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## coyotebarren

I have been working on and off on a custom slingshot. Basically it is a form fitting pistol grip off of a 1200 dollar air pistol that has a barrel that extends out 11 inches. Then it has a cross piece that has rotating posts to allow the band to disapate its energy without tearing the tubes. I have a single piece of spectra string {250 #} where the pouch should be. The posts are about 8 inches apart from each other. Also there is a solid stainless steel tube that is attached to the bottom of the pistol grip that can be adjusted left and right. this tube has a form fitting, forearm shaped circular collar that holds everything solid . This collar is about 8 inches behind the pistol grip. The barrel has the ability to be adjusted up or down as this is necessary to balance the force of the bands in such a way that allows the slingshot to push back into the web of the hand similar tyo the way a recurve bow feels. This allows the wrist to stay stationary while the bands are in flight and the design of the pistol grip itself lends a great deal of support to the wrist by forcing the shooting force to travel back through the wrist in a straight line as the bands are drawn back. I also purchased a hydraulic release that automatically releases the bands after 4 seconds or more or less . It is timing adsjustable. I chose this release after discovering that latex tubes start relaxing as soon as they are drawn back , so it is necessary to duplicate the holding time of the shot to make the amount of thrust consistent, Also the pistol grip has a wrap around shelf that covers part of the web of the hand with wood and this wood acts as a shield in case of an unexpected result.
So to get to the point , I am designing this weapon to shoot a dart very similar to a arrow complete with vanes annd broadhead. { As a youth I competed in olympic style archery at the international llevel} . This dart has been designed to be 3 to 4 inches long with a welded steel ring at the rear which allows the release to be securely attached. I have a pretty good idea what Im looking for as far as the shape of the dart but I still have some unknowns to deal with. The most important is the balance point of the dart. I imagine that having as much weight as possible in the point of the dart will force the vanes to stabilise the dart to fly horizontally. Also I am using vanes that have the little kickers on the vane curve that increases the rotation rate signifigantly. This should create enough drag to keep everything level as well as minimise wobble of the dart. Ill try to get a photo of my setup as soon as I can figure out how to accomplish that.
As I mentioned I have been working on this off and on for 3 years . I am to the point of test firing but I still have some designing to address. One is how can I get the dart released without having the bands buffet the dart as it passes the rotating posts. As I am trying to exagerate the accelaretion fase of the dart by extending the draw length I sure could use some high speed photography to test some ideas to eliminate this buffeting without shortening the draw length. . Any sug.gestions here are more than welcome.
Another question I have is how heaavy a tube or band do I need to accelerate a 500 grain dart to 200 feet per second using 24 inches of band travel? How can I exagerate even further the acceleration phase of the dart without adjusting the way I hold the dart in relation to my face?? Would a roller design similar to those on the Slingshot Channel videos help speed things up? Any findings on bands or tubes with respect to speed or durability would be appreciated. Also what is a good ratio of band length to stretch as far as durability is concerned?
Does overstretching latex to the point of a very short lifespan increase speed any? Is _there any way to get the tubes to pass one over ther otherAs they pass between the rotating posts {thus minimizing buffeting of the dart}? Thanks_


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## JoergS

Sounds interesting. Do you have a simple sketch or even a photo to visualize the idea?

You will have to use a massive draw weight to shoot a 500 gr arrow at 200 fps with just 24" of a draw.

Jörg


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## PandaMan

Jörg, I think shooting flechettes is a really good idea. Maybe you could use something along the lines of this :-
http://slingshotforum.com/topic/3591-i-wish-i-was-a-kid-again/page__pid__36557#entry36557
I could see this design being adapted quite easily and I think it could work. Especially with your ingenuity!









PandaMan


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## ZDP-189

> These steel darts... they can go through a flak jacket.


Is he serious? I don't think that's right.


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## abwurfgrenni

Hi,

i have made some arrows similar to the ones shown in the videosome years ago.
I´ve used long nails from a hardwarestore (approx 20cm long, 6 to 8mm in diam.).
I sharpend the point with a file and with a hacksaw i cut a kind of hook in to the shaft of the nail. (aprox. 3cm from the tip, halfway to the shaft and with a angel of aprox 45° pointing to the tip).
After that i painted them black with car paint and added some yellow ducttape (german army "panzertape") to the rear as a fletching. 
The head of the nail makes it very easy to hold it and pull it.

I also modified the slingshot for shooting these.
I removed the pouch from the tubes and added a V-shaped piece of stainless steel welding wire to hook the arrows in.

Another way i tested of making these arrows is:
I took some cheap arrows for a pistol crossbow, they are made out of plastik with a diameter of approx. 6mm.
3 cm from the end i drilled a small hole ( ~ 2mm diam) thru the shaft in an angle of approx 45° pointing to the tip. after that i cut a short ( ~1,5cm) piece of stainless steel welding wire (diam. fits the hole snuggly) and inserted that in to the hole and glued it in place.
Now it looks a little bit like an fishing arrow. The wirehook of the arrow is than hooked to the V-shaped wire of the slingshot.
due to the fact, that these plastic arrows are very lightweight and there is no proper way to grab them you can only use them in low to med. power slingshots and the overall power is not to much, but they fly quite well.

I came up with the design several years ago when i was looking at a survival knife by the company aitor.
Their survival knifes include a "slingshot" fixed to the sheat and included in the knife was a second blade with a "hook" to hook to the slingshot as an "arrow".


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## zille

I think using nails this large as flechettes should be quite powerful, isn't it?


abwurfgrenni said:


> Hi,
> 
> i have made some arrows similar to the ones shown in the videosome years ago.
> I´ve used long nails from a hardwarestore (approx 20cm long, 6 to 8mm in diam.).
> I sharpend the point with a file and with a hacksaw i cut a kind of hook in to the shaft of the nail. (aprox. 3cm from the tip, halfway to the shaft and with a angel of aprox 45° pointing to the tip).
> After that i painted them black with car paint and added some yellow ducttape (german army "panzertape") to the rear as a fletching.
> The head of the nail makes it very easy to hold it and pull it.
> 
> I also modified the slingshot for shooting these.
> I removed the pouch from the tubes and added a V-shaped piece of stainless steel welding wire to hook the arrows in.
> 
> Another way i tested of making these arrows is:
> I took some cheap arrows for a pistol crossbow, they are made out of plastik with a diameter of approx. 6mm.
> 3 cm from the end i drilled a small hole ( ~ 2mm diam) thru the shaft in an angle of approx 45° pointing to the tip. after that i cut a short ( ~1,5cm) piece of stainless steel welding wire (diam. fits the hole snuggly) and inserted that in to the hole and glued it in place.
> Now it looks a little bit like an fishing arrow. The wirehook of the arrow is than hooked to the V-shaped wire of the slingshot.
> due to the fact, that these plastic arrows are very lightweight and there is no proper way to grab them you can only use them in low to med. power slingshots and the overall power is not to much, but they fly quite well.
> 
> I came up with the design several years ago when i was looking at a survival knife by the company aitor.
> Their survival knifes include a "slingshot" fixed to the sheat and included in the knife was a second blade with a "hook" to hook to the slingshot as an "arrow".


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## abwurfgrenni

zille said:


> I think using nails this large as flechettes should be quite powerful, isn't it?


I think it is, but i did not tested them to much, but i chrashed several thing in my cellar while "testing" them.


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## HOE

I have thought of this stuff long ago, but it's highly risky, if the dart gets snagged in the string/wire, you're screwed.


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## zille

HOE said:


> I have thought of this stuff long ago, but it's highly risky, if the dart gets snagged in the string/wire, you're screwed.


mh...that seems to be too much of a risk to intensely try it out. The image of a 20cm sharpened nail heading towards my face is intimidating...maybe I can come up with an idea to prevent the arrow getting tangled.


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## PandaMan

hmmm... I have and idea. Maybe you could discard the conventional pouch, and have a plastic one like Jörg's shotgun slingshot. Then the dart could have a better fit in the 'pouch' and it'd be less likely to go astray.


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## zille

Please don't shoot small darts like these straight from the pouch as you would with a slingbow. Due to the lack of an arrow rest, the thing would randomly travel through the air and you would eventually get hurt severely. 
You have to pull the dart at the tail and it has to be hooked to the pouch (or band or whatever construction) in the front, so you can create enough forward momentum to send it on a straight line. 
The only downside HOE mentioned could be the dart getting tangled in the pouch and using that straight line against you in a "momma, I'm coming home" manner. That would be devestating. Experimenting with these should be done very carefully, I guess.


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## HOE

I would not like to have a hooked dart sticking out in my hand or my face, or worse lose an eye. Be sure to know what you're doing when playing with this stuff.


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## abwurfgrenni

i´m not to much worried about shooting an arrow the way i described it. 
a short arrow that rests in the pouch, MAYBE could get tangled, but if it is hooked to a smooth wire with a cleanly grindet barb, i dont really think it will get tangled. 
the second way i described it (with the wire trough the arrow) so that the slingshotwire does not hook IN to the arrow but UNDER the arrow should reduce this risk even more.
The only thing i would maybe do is, i would go with an arrowtype fletching with two "feathers" 90° offset to the hook, i think using a bundle of rope as a tail as shown in the pictures and videos could increase the risk of getting tangled.

in the video they say its penetrating flak vests, i´m not sure if a sharpened rebar will be able to do so, but i think if you take a kind of shaft, lets say 8 to 10mm an add a point of 3mm (or less) strong wire (spring or welding wire should do) approx 5cm long, fired from a strong cattie i think it will do the trick.


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## abwurfgrenni

zille said:


> Please don't shoot small darts like these straight from the pouch as you would with a slingbow. Due to the lack of an arrow rest, the thing would randomly travel through the air and you would eventually get hurt severely.
> You have to pull the dart at the tail and it has to be hooked to the pouch (or band or whatever construction) in the front, so you can create enough forward momentum to send it on a straight line.
> The only downside HOE mentioned could be the dart getting tangled in the pouch and using that straight line against you in a "momma, I'm coming home" manner. That would be devestating. Experimenting with these should be done very carefully, I guess.


what if i do not shoot an short arrow straight, but if i rest it "vertical" in the pouch with the tip facing upwards. would this be practical? will the dart turn itself tip forward after leaving the pouch?
Im thinking of that, because a schoolmate of mine once told me, that they were shooting featherd bolts like they are available for BB guns from slingshots, and he said it worked quite well. If i would manufacture a bolt like these just bigger, lets say 2 to 3cm long, does someone thinks it could work?


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## zille

abwurfgrenni said:


> what if i do not shoot an short arrow straight, but if i rest it "vertical" in the pouch with the tip facing upwards. would this be practical? will the dart turn itself tip forward after leaving the pouch?
> Im thinking of that, because a schoolmate of mine once told me, that they were shooting featherd bolts like they are available for BB guns from slingshots, and he said it worked quite well. If i would manufacture a bolt like these just bigger, lets say 2 to 3cm long, does someone thinks it could work?


If I get this right, in my opinion the arrow would fly backside first. After accelerating the rear part, the tip should tilt towards the shooter. But I'm not a physicist. Anyway the tip magically dropping forward seems illogically to me.


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## HOE

abwurfgrenni said:


> Please don't shoot small darts like these straight from the pouch as you would with a slingbow. Due to the lack of an arrow rest, the thing would randomly travel through the air and you would eventually get hurt severely.
> You have to pull the dart at the tail and it has to be hooked to the pouch (or band or whatever construction) in the front, so you can create enough forward momentum to send it on a straight line.
> The only downside HOE mentioned could be the dart getting tangled in the pouch and using that straight line against you in a "momma, I'm coming home" manner. That would be devestating. Experimenting with these should be done very carefully, I guess.


what if i do not shoot an short arrow straight, but if i rest it "vertical" in the pouch with the tip facing upwards. would this be practical? will the dart turn itself tip forward after leaving the pouch?
Im thinking of that, because a schoolmate of mine once told me, that they were shooting featherd bolts like they are available for BB guns from slingshots, and he said it worked quite well. If i would manufacture a bolt like these just bigger, lets say 2 to 3cm long, does someone thinks it could work?
[/quote]

Do you mean something like this? I've tried it and it doesn't go point first, I only shoot at 5 metres, maybe it could work at longer distance.


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## abwurfgrenni

@ HOE and Zille

Yes i do mean something like that, use google for "Federbolzen" you will find pictures about it.

I think it should work, at least theoreticaly, because when you shoot the dart the lighter tail, wich also should have a greater air resistance, should slow down and the heavier tip should turn forward. But thats only my thinking about how it should work theoreticaly.
Because i think this is basicly the way all darts with a tail like this work, for example in blowguns. The dart is prevented from turning over by the slower tail.

One point more about the flechettes,
some said, that it might get tangled the way it is hooked to the slingshot, i think its technicaly the same system that is used for rubberband spearguns and there its working fine.


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## HOE

The hook on the dart tip getting snagged is one thing, another potential risk is the tails getting tangled on the rubber band or the wire pouch. Maybe you can try tape fletching instead of strings or yarn.


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## abwurfgrenni

That is what i said, i use ducttape fletching with two "wings" on my naildarts. And if the hook cut in to the nail is big enough to fit the wire easily i dont see ther to much of an risk of tangeling. But if you are still worried about that you could use an outer hook that is fixed (welded, glued or soldered) to the shaft instead of being cut into the shaft. That should reduce the potential risk of tangeling even more.


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## coyotebarren

Heres a couple photos of my slingshot that I have been working on these last few years. This model is set up for shooting steel balls. The grip was originally made for olympic style air pistols. I fashioned the "barrel" from aluminum taken from a Harris bipod and the rotating posts and frame from a piece of titanium. The rotating posts holder is adjustable foreward or backward via set screws at the fulcrum. The "barrel" can be adjusted foreward or backward to adjust the draw weight of the tubes. The pouch has a small rare earth magnet in it that holds the ball centered while the release is attached by the loop on the back of the pouch. The loop is made of spectra fiber and seems very strong and durable. Another loop is attached to the bottom of the pouch which is slipped over the carriage bolt head and this allows for easy attachment of the hydraulic release. Behind the carriage bolt is a magnet that is used to hold the ammo in place while hooking the pouch to the carriage bolt. 
Hanging beneath the "barrel is a set of what are known in the target archery world as v-bars. The v-bars help hold everything stationary while the ball is accelerating, adds weight that helps minimise movement of the slingshot, dampens vibration, and helps minimise aiming tremors. And they help keep things balanced so the front doesnt start dropping as soon as the ball is released.
The arm brace is attached to the grip via a bolt that runs up to the aluminum barrel holder. THe barrel holder can be tipped up or down to adjust band clearance over top of the carriage bolt. The arm brace is attached to a shaped aluminum block on the bottom of the grip . This brace can be adjusted left and right via bolts in the shaped aluminum block. The rear of the brace is made from aluminum that is contoured to fit the shape of my forearm. I split an old band and taped it to the forearm brace to snug things up . It can be adjustedleft or right .
The grip itself can be made larger or smaller to accomodate different sized hands. 
At the very front of the slingshot is attached a target archery sight that has a micrometer adjusting knob. The aiming ring of the sight can be adjusted any way you might need . The sight extends out far enough that the bands dont hit it and the aiming ring is far enough away that everything stays in focus.
So far it seems to shoot very accurately as I am using a hydreaulic release that releases the pouch at a pre set interval. No target panic as the release releases itself.
Inside the bands are lengths of spectra string that limits how far the bands can be drawn back, thus minimising thrust variations.
The sight , and v-bars, came from the target archery days of my youth . In designing the thing I wanted to see how accurate a slingshot can be,and this is the reason for all the attachments . I am currently working on a design to shoot darts. The weapon will have only one band and will utilise a falling band rest that will be pushed foreward and down so as to allow the dart to pass over the rest without causing deflections. In theory it will work but the band tail strikes it with such force that it tears things up pretty good. It can be inserted into the barrel holder of this slingshot by turning a set screw. 
The above mentioned slingshot is very easy to shoot and seems to minimise the need for skill. Once I understand the thing Im going to design something a lot smaller that will pack a good punch . I hunt moose every year in canada and I have to pass up the shots at smaller game because of the noise factor of rifles.


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## roadie

i jus bought a 8mm threaded rod ...... for jus S$2.50 !!!! cheap !!!









and made 10 short flettches .... end not yet sharpen nor fitted with wings ...

did a short range shooting in my room ,,,, it rocks!


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## josephlys

Those look like they can do some damage







. Careful of those chopped cylinder rods, their rough edges may potentially cut your bands. Roundballs still fly the truest thou', and they won't harm the bands.


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## roadie

yea .... grinding will be tomo ..... mummy will be home soon


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## josephlys

LOL, yeah once I got caught using an angle grinder in the house and I got it so bad from mummy LOL


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## Chimes

Well I don't know if your still working on this, but I found a video. Maybe you have seen it maybe not but just putting this in.


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## mckee

looking forwards to this!


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## mckee

Faithie said:


> Well I don't know if your still working on this, but I found a video. Maybe you have seen it maybe not but just putting this in.
> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3kqnjSdhJO4


wouldent catch me doing that


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## Sleepy

As a bone crusher variation one might shoot a short length of steel chain too.


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## abwurfgrenni

Faithie said:


> Well I don't know if your still working on this, but I found a video. Maybe you have seen it maybe not but just putting this in.
> http://www.youtube.c...h?v=3kqnjSdhJO4


now thats nice, but i think u should not be cowardly to do that, and maybe a litle bit crazy


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## bcavery

I have been involved in archery both tradition and compound for the last 20 years and I have seen several very nasty injuries involving arrows in the back of the hand/wrist. Back when overdraws were all the rage it happened all to often. An arrow driven through the hand can have irreparable results even to the point of losing fingers entirely.

With that said I do think the idea is an intriguing one but I would not try it without some type of metal arm/hand guard in place to deflect the possible wayward flechette. One shot could very well end all you slingshoting fun forever.


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## Robert123

I'm new to the forum. I made and used homemade slingshots as a boy (I'm 63 now) and have recently purchased a couple of slingshots (Ergo2 and Black Widow)--how the technology has changed from the time of my boyhood! When I employ the shooting tips on this forum I make remarkably accurate shots. Today I ordered Thermaband Gold, rotary cutter, leather and other items needed to experiment with equiptment variations. I visited the Combow site at http://www.combowslingguy.com/INDEX.html and noted that the site is not taking orders at present. The products displayed on the site are exciting sling arrow and shot variations that are quite reasonably priced. Sling darts seem to be powerful weapons.

JoergS, I admire your many videos, ingenuity, affable personality and physical strength. You have obviously helped increase interest in the sport. JoergeS, you began this topic (made the first post) but you haven't made posts describing the results of your experimentation. What happened? Do you have a video? What are your latest thoughts on this subject?


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## JoergS

Robert, yes, I did make a video.






In essence, flechettes work fine. I never encountered a stray shot that was even remotely dangerous for my hand. Shot from the crossbow, there is of course zero danger.

Then again, what exactly are flechettes good for? They cost a lot more money than steel or lead balls and require a lot of work.

After the video, I experimented some more with the fins and found out that you need at least three, better four of them to avoid strays. Two aren't enough because they stabilize in one direction only.

I feel that I explored the field to the full. I went back to balls. It was fun, though!

Jörg


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## Robert123

Jeorg,

Thank you for the video and your comments.

Perhaps there is one large advantage of flechettes over balls that is often overlooked-penetration. You have excellent videos of balls penetrating ballistic gelatin. Ballistic gelatin simulates flesh. There are many internet videos of slingshot shooters using simple cloth as a target backdrop. The slingshot balls have plenty of force to penetrate at least some depth of ballistic gelatin yet a piece of cloth absorbsthe energy and momentum and therefore stop the flight of ball ammunition. My speculation is that balls shot from a powerful slingshot would also be stopped or greatly slowed by a hanging cloth towel. If a deer were wearing a jacket, would a ball from a powerful slingshot penetrate the jacket?

My point is that flechettes are excellent penetrators compared to balls.


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## JoergS

True, penetration is better. But I have no use for that, as I don't hunt, and I have no plans to ever shoot another human beeing.

I like target shooting and destruction. Lead and steel balls are perfect for these tasks.


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