# Problems with flatbands



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

So I like using flatbands but i must be doing something wrong... I get maybe 100 shots before one of the bands starts to tear at the pouch tie point

Basically im making my bands 1 inch tapered to half inch with 2 layers at 10 inches long, I use these for butterfly and my draw lengthis roughly 48 inches

I tie them with the typical constrictor knot and am using 100% polyester string for tying, Could the string be digging in? Could I be tying it to tight? Wrong string? Wrong demensions? HELP!!!

This is driving me NUTS, I love the power of the flatbands but I cant shoot them if they fail this quick! My cuts are very clean no nicks, The frame im shooting from has absolutely no sharp edges anywhere so confused.


----------



## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Try tying it with cuts from your bands?


----------



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Try tying it with cuts from your bands?


I have not, Im not so sure it is the string but I will try that see if it makes any difference


----------



## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Gib said:


> Try tying it with cuts from your bands?


I have not, Im not so sure it is the string but I will try that see if it makes any difference
[/quote]

Also is there anything sharp on the slingshot itself the end of the bands could be slapping into? 1/2 inch is a pretty small band end. You could do 3/4 and see if it makes a difference.


----------



## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

I would say that you are trying for too much speed. The faster the slingshot shoots the shorter the life (all other things being equal). Rough tips cause more band breakage at the pouch than anything else though. -- Tex


----------



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

Tex-Shooter said:


> I would say that you are trying for too much speed. The faster the slingshot shoots the shorter the life (all other things being equal). Rough tips cause more band breakage at the pouch than anything else though. -- Tex


Could you recommend some dimensions for me?


----------



## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Gib said:


> I would say that you are trying for too much speed. The faster the slingshot shoots the shorter the life (all other things being equal). Rough tips cause more band breakage at the pouch than anything else though. -- Tex


Could you recommend some dimensions for me?








[/quote]

Try 3/4 of an inch un-tapered. Those seems to last me a while. I do not shoot butterfly so I cannot comment on the length.


----------



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

RecurveMaster said:


> I would say that you are trying for too much speed. The faster the slingshot shoots the shorter the life (all other things being equal). Rough tips cause more band breakage at the pouch than anything else though. -- Tex


Could you recommend some dimensions for me?








[/quote]

Try 3/4 of an inch un-tapered. Those seems to last me a while. I do not shoot butterfly so I cannot comment on the length.
[/quote]

I will try that and see if its any better, Tried tying pouch on with scraps same problem, bout 100 shots probably less before ripping at pouch tie area, Im thinking tex is probably right and im going for too much speed here at about 40 meters theres barely a drop in trajectory lol


----------



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

> Try 3/4 of an inch un-tapered. Those seems to last me a while. I do not shoot butterfly so I cannot comment on the length.


This worked very good, Shot until my fingers hurt and still hasnt torn.


----------



## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Gib said:


> So I like using flatbands but i must be doing something wrong... I get maybe 100 shots before one of the bands starts to tear at the pouch tie point
> 
> Basically im making my bands 1 inch tapered to half inch with 2 layers at 10 inches long, I use these for butterfly and my draw lengthis roughly 48 inches
> 
> ...


If you take a closeup picture of the fork head, showing your attachments, it might give us a clue what's causing the premature failure.


----------



## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

I tie with 1/4 inch wide strips of latex and before tying I spit on area to be tied so the tie bands slide and only not much more than snug because latex grips against itself anyway. 1 lap and then two knots to secure and of couse I put a spittle on the knot before snugging it up nicely. Be ever so tender.


----------



## Bugar (Dec 24, 2009)

OK on breaking / tearing at the pouch=just yesterday, was setting up my friend with some new thera bands, the first set lasted about 20 shots and tore at the pouch, the second set 3 shots, could not figure this out, so gave him another slingshot and watched him shoot= Ah-Ha, he was holding the fork at an angle to his body and tilting it back toward himself, thought that was all, so watched a little while longer, he was also holding / pinching the pouch crooked, when at full draw I could only see one side of the pouch , it was so crooked,, after much instruction, I think I got him doing it better, now the fork is straight, and the pouch seems to be looking as it should, I hope so, tired of cutting and installing bands, He's a good guy tho, and actually we had a good day shooting


----------



## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Also be sure he doesnt draw the bands to their full elastic limit, which can greatly reduce their life. ZDP did an excellent analysis on that issue in his blog. It's always best to slightly underdraw, and if doing so is too short for comfort, switch to slightly longer bands.


----------



## crazyslingshot (Dec 25, 2009)

I have to say breaking / tearing at the pouch with less 100 shots is normal unless you have the high skill of deal with it very very carefully ...

I take the flatband for the serious hunt. For the most time, I use the small Chinese tubing (multiple strands) for target practice, it lasts about 500 shots in average without any extra care.


----------



## Dorfjunge (Sep 10, 2010)

I only use cotton string for the constriction not - i had the same problem with polyester strings befor....


----------



## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

crazyslingshot said:


> I have to say breaking / tearing at the pouch with less 100 shots is normal unless you have the high skill of deal with it very very carefully ...
> 
> I take the flatband for the serious hunt. For the most time, I use the small Chinese tubing (multiple strands) for target practice, it lasts about 500 shots in average without any extra care.


I dont have the 100 shot limit you're reporting with flat type bands. I'm a new shooter myself and once I finetuned my draw I've had no difficulty getting at least 300-400 shots out of bands by both gary and tex.
If you're tearing after 100 that indicates either an attachment, grip, or drawing issue that needs some tweakage.


----------



## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

If your bands are consistently tearing cross-wise at the pouch ties, yes, it is friction from the ties.

It can be exacerbated by poor technique, but probably it is due to latex being too thin, narrow or being insufficiently wear resistant, the ties coinciding with the weakest and most highly stretched part of the band and/or the ties being inflexible or abrasive.

I believe that a thin band with extreme tapering, tied in a loose state with a knot made of plant fibres sealed with super-glue then exposed to humidity and sunlight is an ideal recipe for this kind of failure. Note that I have just more or less described many well respected makers' bands and their users haven't complained over the years, so I may be wrong and I am not trying to pick a flame war. I think they must tie their bands under tension and that makes a great difference, but a relative novice copying the look of the tying method may have missed that.

I spent a lot of time engineering this connection in my own bands and I think I have pretty much solved it, so refer to my blog entry titled "Bandsets - balancing performance with longevity" to see my solution.


----------



## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Simpler to switch to the more superior dankung tubes.


----------



## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

One of these days, we're going to have to have a world championship pitting those who believe "flat iz phat" against the tube-loving "catheterized curmudgeons", in order to settle once and for all which shoots better.


----------



## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

shot in the foot said:


> One of these days, we're going to have to have a world championship pitting those who believe "flat iz phat" against the tube-loving "catheterized curmudgeons", in order to settle once and for all which shoots better.


Thats easy no need for competition answer tubes.


----------



## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

I'd be willing to chip in towards airfare to sent Torsten over to China for some flat-vs-tube smackdown action.


----------



## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

I would like to help with the fare but my money is in the wifes purse try getting your hands on that and your liable to lose them


----------



## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Good gravy hawk, you must not have a Chrony, or have never shot good flatbands! -- Tex


----------



## crazyslingshot (Dec 25, 2009)

Darb said:


> I have to say breaking / tearing at the pouch with less 100 shots is normal unless you have the high skill of deal with it very very carefully ...
> 
> I take the flatband for the serious hunt. For the most time, I use the small Chinese tubing (multiple strands) for target practice, it lasts about 500 shots in average without any extra care.


I dont have the 100 shot limit you're reporting with flat type bands. I'm a new shooter myself and once I finetuned my draw I've had no difficulty getting at least 300-400 shots out of bands by both gary and tex.
If you're tearing after 100 that indicates either an attachment, grip, or drawing issue that needs some tweakage.
[/quote]

Mine is gold theraband. I love to pull band to six-time of original length for the great power.
actually, each time breaks with less than 100 shots.
I don't want to pull less for longer bandlife .


----------



## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

crazyslingshot said:


> Mine is gold theraband. I love to pull band to six-time of original length for the great power.
> actually, each time breaks with less than 100 shots.
> I don't want to pull less for longer bandlife .


Danny (ZDP) tested the elastic force curves on several varieties of bands, and each set has their 'sweet spot' of most efficient draw (read: inflection point on the force curve), beyond which more draw (potential energy) produces minimal or no additional speed (kinetic energy) and can dramatically shorten lifespan. It would not be an exaggeration to theorize that reducing your draw from 100% of the elastic limit to 90-95% may triple (or more) your band's lifespan, and may even give you virtually the same speed on release ... and in some instances, it may even be faster.

It's also important to select the proper mass of ammo for the bands you're using ... underweight or overweight ammo can contribute to premature band failure.


----------



## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Im aware of how sensitive you all are about flatbands and tubes it just so happens I had a whisky last night and was in good humour,I could not resist myself from placing a comment that would get a reaction having said that.no matter how powerful flatbands are I personnally dont like them and will always favour the chinese tubes over them.The ak47 is a very powerful rifle but everybody who owns a gun does not own one everyone has different tastes it would be a boring forum if everyone had the same slingshot and bands ? er I mean tubes.


----------



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

I have already found my problem with this issue thanks guys, I would like to say it was likely error on my part (rough frame) and i now get 100-200 on my therablack fast band set up (which i cut as one solid strip now and fold it to fit) and with normal theraband gold strips last me a long time (very close to dankung tubes I also use) being exclusive user of dankung tubes when I first started I am now finding I like flatbands much more. Dont get me wrong I still use dankung tubes but usually only on my jungle hunter and a select few naturals, Otherwise my sling is rigged with theraband gold or therblack fast band setup for distance.


----------

