# OTT for Aiming and Accuracy, TTF for Consistency and Precision



## Reyben Kim (Aug 30, 2021)

Why do I mostly shoot OTT? - While TTF allows for a cleaner release, I find that OTT has more points of reference for aiming. You can really dial in the X and Y axis with a consistent anchor point and if you have a smooth release. For a more in-depth explanation, please see the diagram below.

I find that the choice between the two is a matter of favoring accuracy over precision. It is easier to be accurate with the OTT but it is harder to learn a clean release. It is easier to be precise with a TTF, but there are less reference points when aiming.








I thought about opening this discussion following a survey I conducted on the Philippine Slingshot Federation. We found that there are marginally more TTF shooters that OTT shooters. What style do you prefer?


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## Hoss (Jun 3, 2014)

I prefer OTT, I use to shoot TTF and I will not be switching back.

As far as what you're saying about accuracy, all that I can say is when I first switched to OTT, I was not as accurate but after some practice and getting use to the change I'm just as accurate and consistent as I was with TTF. 

I believe with patience and practice a person can be accurate and consistent in either orientation. 

Sent from my MAX_10 using Tapatalk


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## Reyben Kim (Aug 30, 2021)

Hoss said:


> I prefer OTT, I use to shoot TTF and I will not be switching back.
> 
> As far as what you're saying about accuracy, all that I can say is when I first switched to OTT, I was not as accurate but after some practice and getting use to the change I'm just as accurate and consistent as I was with TTF.
> 
> ...


Switching between the two, OTT has just worked better for me for the reason of having a more direct method of accounting for elevation. That being said, slingshot accuracy is really a matter of personal preference and individual shooting styles 

Perhaps OTT works better for me, because the aiming points lets me better translate my archery experience.


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## prototypicalDave (Jun 1, 2021)

I'm still pretty new at all this, so it might just be a fluke or in my head.
I have a couple of different OTT frames with different widths and I'm definitely better with OTT. Both with tubes and bands. I'm still trying to find out why. 
That being said, aiming with both eyes gives me the same kind of elevation reference with TTF that I get from OTT.
For left hand hold this means that my dominant left eye clearly sees the target, allowing me to superimpose the aligned bands/tubes that my right eye sees.
I learned to do this when switching up between a TTF Scorpion (3 7/8" fork width) and a TTF Mini Taurus (3 1/8" fork width).
For the Scorpion, this means that I end up placing the middle of the fork on the bull at 3 meters. 
For the Mini Taurus at 3 meters, I end up aligning the bottom of the aiming dimple with the center of the target.


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## Tobor8Man (Nov 19, 2020)

Interesting thread. I envy your slingshot federation and wish we had something like that here. 

TTF - but then I do a lot of things differently than most shooters here. I shoot hammer grip, fairly heavy Theraband Gold bands, pinch pouch, clay ammo.

Shooting hammer grip TTF puts less strain on my wrist. Aiming does not help me if I am not shooting w/ precision.

The one exception to this is a Heaven’s Emperor, with low OTT forks and light bands - shoots like a laser but takes forever to cut cans.


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## Booral121 (Jan 6, 2019)

With ttf if you have to aim above your target to allow for droppage say 10m +🤔 you can't see your target because its hidden by your fork and bands but with ott your target is always visible 👌🎯 I shoot both but as I'm hunting 80% of my shooting which is 10+ I prefer OTT .infact ott just feels more natural to me more comfortable 👌🎯👍👊 OTT FOREVER👊🎯🏴󠁧󠁢󠁳󠁣󠁴󠁿🤣🤣


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

With a line on the top ttf band and less than 15 meters I find am about the same as ott. Also with a fiber optic sight well adjusted on both
find pleasure in changing.
ukj


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

I find the TTF hammer-pinch frame to be my most accurate. The frame would be the TTF Mini-Taurus. 

With OTT we can aim at the target with various spots on the top fork while anchoring in the same place on our face. This allows us to use the lower reference points for longer distances. With TTF we aim using the same spot (or notch) on the top fork but we can vary our anchor points for different distances. I anchor on my ear and can hold on the top of the tragus or at the bottom of the lobe or anywhere in between. This approach gets me on target from 10-50 yards. 

With all this said, I still enjoy OTT frames with low forks. The Lion Mouth is one of my favorite OTT frames.


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## Reyben Kim (Aug 30, 2021)

Northerner said:


> I find the TTF hammer-pinch frame to be my most accurate. The frame would be the TTF Mini-Taurus.
> 
> With OTT we can aim at the target with various spots on the top fork while anchoring in the same place on our face. This allows us to use the lower reference points for longer distances. With TTF we aim using the same spot (or notch) on the top fork but we can vary our anchor points for different distances. I anchor on my ear and can hold on the top of the tragus or at the bottom of the lobe or anywhere in between. This approach gets me on target from 10-50 yards.
> 
> With all this said, I still enjoy OTT frames with low forks. The Lion Mouth is one of my favorite OTT frames.


Good insight on how different both styles adjust for distance.

OTT - fixed anchor point, moving aiming point for elevation
TTF - Fixed aiming point, moving anchor point for elevation

Now that that is said, I think the reason OTT works for me is because the aiming style is similar to archery - where we always have the same fixed anchor point.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

In archery there is an aiming style called "Face Walking" where the archer anchors at different spots on their face according to distance. There is also a system called "String Walking" where the archer uses different string contact positions according to the distance. There is also a system called "Gap Shooting" where the archer holds _over_ or _under_ a target according to distance.

Some slingshot shooters will gap shoot. An earlobe anchor point with a TTF slingshot will allow you to gap shoot by holding under at closer distances while maintaining the same anchor point. Your point-on distance will vary according to your slingshot width and projectile speed. My _Ear Walking_ system for slingshots is similar to _Face Walking_ in archery. Some slingshot shooters will even use a mechanical sight like we see with most compound bow archers.


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## Reyben Kim (Aug 30, 2021)

Northerner said:


> In archery there is an aiming style called "Face Walking" where the archer anchors at different spots on their face according to distance. There is also a system called "String Walking" where the archer uses different string contact positions according to the distance. There is also a system called "Gap Shooting" where the archer holds _over_ or _under_ a target according to distance.
> 
> Some slingshot shooters will gap shoot. An earlobe anchor point with a TTF slingshot will allow you to gap shoot by holding under at closer distances while maintaining the same anchor point. Your point-on distance will vary according to your slingshot width and projectile speed. My _Ear Walking_ system for slingshots is similar to _Face Walking_ in archery. Some slingshot shooters will even use a mechanical sight like we see with most compound bow archers.


I have tried a moving anchorpoint with a TTF set up, but I just cannot be as consistent with it. I have seen many impressive TTF shooters who use a similar technique as you describe.

Good point on the comparison with string walking and gap shooting.
TTF is analogous to string walking
OTT is analogous to gap shooting

I practice the latter in both archery and slingshooting.

I have observed string walking among recurve horse bow users, but it appears to be completely foreign to modern recurve and longbow archers (at least among my circles).


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## Booral121 (Jan 6, 2019)

Im


Reyben Kim said:


> Good insight on how different both styles adjust for distance.
> 
> OTT - fixed anchor point, moving aiming point for elevation
> TTF - Fixed aiming point, moving anchor point for elevation
> ...


 I'm the same my anchor never changes 👌🎯 my belief is find the frame width that suits in both style and your anchor should never change 🎯👌👊👍


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

I have been shooting TTF mostly (not exclusively) for the past ~ year and my accuracy was as good as ever. I also enjoyed the lack of band slap. 

Over the past month and a half I have been experimenting with making my own frames, and for whatever reason have been doing these in OTT. Once (if?) I get to a frame I like for myself I am intending to make them in both OTT and TTF.

The switch has taken a bit of accuracy away from my shooting. I think mostly due to playing with fork width and handle shape, etc. Not bad but it has definitely fallen off. I'm not ready to blame OTT for it and am enjoying shooting this way again. Especially since it makes for relatively simple FO addition to the frame.

Time will tell where I end up. For now I think each has attributes I like and hopefully my accuracy will rebound once I get back to a consistent frame (or three).


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Booral121 said:


> Im
> 
> I'm the same my anchor never changes 👌🎯 my belief is find the frame width that suits in both style and your anchor should never change 🎯👌👊👍


I would probably stick with one anchor point, use fork corner reference and gap shoot ...if my shots were all 10-20 yards. The gaps would not be extreme so repeatability is very possible. However, I sometimes like to shoot at 30, 40 and 50 yards. The gaps would be huge and difficult to estimate with a frame hand floating in the air. With _ear walking_ I can simply drop down from a high tragus anchor to a lobe anchor and still have a very definite and repeatable anchor point. My fork reference remains at the corner of the top fork. At 75 yards I will drop to the bottom edge of my ear lobe and possibly aim further down the top fork. I can incorporate both aiming styles for extreme distances when at the bottom of my ear. To make _ear walking_ work for me, I had to find the ideal frame width that would allow my ear reference points to work from 10 to 50+ yards. It's definitely not a system for everyone and does require some practice to figure things out. The style somewhat reminds me of using one of those ladder style military rear sights where you have some extreme adjustment for the longer shots. I can move my anchor point slightly up/down the ear just like sliding the peep hole up/down the sight ladder. It's all part of the fun... but not for everyone.

I realize that most shooters will stick with shorter distances where gapping and/or changing fork reference points (with OTT) works fine. Gapping at 50 yards with the same anchor point I use at 10 yards wouldn't work for me. My fork would cover the target (TTF frame).


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## Booral121 (Jan 6, 2019)

Northerner said:


> I would probably stick with one anchor point, use fork corner reference and gap shoot ...if my shots were all 10-20 yards. The gaps would not be extreme so repeatability is very possible. However, I sometimes like to shoot at 30, 40 and 50 yards. The gaps would be huge and difficult to estimate with a frame hand floating in the air. With _ear walking_ I can simply drop down from a high tragus anchor to a lobe anchor and still have a very definite and repeatable anchor point. My fork reference remains at the corner of the top fork. At 75 yards I will drop to the bottom edge of my ear lobe and possibly aim further down the top fork. I can incorporate both aiming styles for extreme distances when at the bottom of my ear. To make _ear walking_ work for me, I had to find the ideal frame width that would allow my ear reference points to work from 10 to 50+ yards. It's definitely not a system for everyone and does require some practice to figure things out. The style somewhat reminds me of using one of those ladder style military rear sights where you have some extreme adjustment for the longer shots. I can move my anchor point slightly up/down the ear just like sliding the peep hole up/down the sight ladder. It's all part of the fun... but not for everyone.
> 
> I realize that most shooters will stick with shorter distances where gapping and/or changing fork reference points (with OTT) works fine. Gapping at 50 yards with the same anchor point I use at 10 yards wouldn't work for me. My fork would cover the target (TTF frame).


That's what I said is it not 🤷🤯🎯👍


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

If I could only shoot at a 10m range for the rest of my life I’d likely just shoot TTF. However that would put me to sleep so I shoot OTT at anything at any distance that looks like a target. 🎯


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## J3ff (Apr 12, 2019)

I started ttf but as soon as I switch to ott I never got another fork hit, and I find it alot easier to adjust sighting between shots to get better accuracy.


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