# Asking guidance on band width to begin please.



## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

I'm very new here, have been asking many questions, reading both old and new threads and absorbing a great deal of information. I sure thank you all for sharing the wealth of knowledge.
Last year I had a false start and bought both Theraband and ball bearings from Amazon. The Theraband though has no markings on it except the company logo and a caution, so aside from the color I don't see the rating. It could be either gold or tan. When I use a digital caliper to measure the thickness (carefully non-compressed), it mics at 0.028 inch or 0.7mm. Any idea what I bought?

Next concern is "what width do I cut bands to begin?" 
Is it a function of draw length and weight of projectiles? 

My beloved wife offered to let me use her rotary cutter and cutting mats, and said she'd be happy to help me as needed. This lady and I share our shop. She knows she's free to use anything and everything in the shop and I never refer to or think of the shop as "mine". That's how we are and I likes it!
As always I thank those that take a moment to read this and reply.
Don


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## AppalachianFlipShooter (May 9, 2020)

Band width & taper will really be decided by the size ammo you're shooting. I haven't used TBG in years, but since it's a .7 thick band I would suggest the following
Clay - 1/4'' straight cut
1/4'' steel - 12-8
8mm 5/16'' steel - 15-10
9.5mm 3/8'' steel - 20-12
11mm 7/16'' steel - 22-16

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## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

I haven't learned the taper designation. Any guess I would make doesn't seem reasonable to me. I keep thinking "run over rise" but that's not working for me. Is there a chart maybe I could research? Don


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## Jcharmin92 (Aug 28, 2021)

KYwisher said:


> I'm very new here, have been asking many questions, reading both old and new threads and absorbing a great deal of information. I sure thank you all for sharing the wealth of knowledge.
> Last year I had a false start and bought both Theraband and ball bearings from Amazon. The Theraband though has no markings on it except the company logo and a caution, so aside from the color I don't see the rating. It could be either gold or tan. When I use a digital caliper to measure the thickness (carefully non-compressed), it mics at 0.028 inch or 0.7mm. Any idea what I bought?
> 
> Next concern is "what width do I cut bands to begin?"
> ...


I have never used TBG so I'm no help there but that's awesome about the wife and the shop lol. Very similar situation at our home.


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## AppalachianFlipShooter (May 9, 2020)

KYwisher said:


> I haven't learned the taper designation. Any guess I would make doesn't seem reasonable to me. I keep thinking "run over rise" but that's not working for me. Is there a chart maybe I could research? Don


Tapers are easy enough. The narrow end is attached to the pouch, wider end to the slingshot. They're easier to draw and 99% of the time they break at the pouch rather than in the middle of the band 

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## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

So how does a designation such as "15-10" for example, translate to the measurements to which I cut the bands please?
Don


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

At this stage of your game ...buy some premade bands that are designed for your ammo and already have pouches.

You could also do some reading. All these questions have been answered and are easily found. Watch some tutorials and setup videos. At minimum, maybe try and keep all these questions in one thread in the Beginner section. You have 7 question threads in the past 24 hours.

Part of the fun should be exploring, learning and figuring things out that work for you.


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## AppalachianFlipShooter (May 9, 2020)

KYwisher said:


> So how does a designation such as "15-10" for example, translate to the measurements to which I cut the bands please?
> Don


Millimeters. 15mm down to 10mm

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## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

I've printed out a terminology listing. Watched videos and studied new and old threads. Frequently what I find is an amalgam of answers that don't clearly answer my own singular question(s). I do read extensively also. Don


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

More info


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## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

I thank you so much. I've not found a chart anything like that in looking around. Google let me down...
Don


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

Tapers are an amazing topic to experiment with and a great rabbit hole to get sucked into.

One thing to keep in mind- many people often pull heavier bands than they need to. All latex has a max retraction rate / dry fire speed. Heavier ammo needs a heavier band of course. Part of the magic is finding the lightest band that is still heavy enough to move the particular ammo.

After a lot of trial and error, and fun experimenting, people figure out a favorite latex and thickness and taper for each type of ammo they use.


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

I’m just guessing so if you are going to anchor at your cheek or ear start with 8” long bands cut at a half inch. After you tie to the pouch and your frame you should be left with about 7” of active band length. Try that and adjust from there. Still just guessing.


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## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

Excellent information. Hope to cut some tomorrow since I already have leather and bands. I'm a leather hobbiest and have a few square feet of 2=3 ounce veg tanned cowhide. I'll try that first. Thanks again everyone. Don


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## Crac (Mar 3, 2013)

Tan would be super super thin, so I’m sure it’s gold. However strictly it wouldn’t matter too much, the draw force is related to the area and the strain.




> Is it a function of draw length and weight of projectiles?


Draw weight in lbf = ammo weight in grains / 4

So 3/8" steel is around 55 grains, hence ~ 13.7 lbf, Try to stick with this.
5/16" steel is around 32 grains, hence ~ 8 lbf, I'd bend this rule up to 11 lbf.
1/4" steel is around 16 grains, hence ~ 4 lbf... but I usually want a little more like typically 6 lbf maybe up to 7 lbf.

I've a few more comments on this topic. The above is a starting point for the common cases. For larger ammo the rule breaks down. Plus excessive draw forces also risk serious long term injuries.


What you cut really depends on what you are trying to achieve.



I would try to think about how many band sets you can get from your stock.

Q1. So how long is your piece of Theraband ?


Q2. How long is you draw length ?
- You can use a tape measure: Hook the end over tip of your left thumb and extend the tape measure. Draw your right hand back and place the mid-joint of your right thumb on the pressure point below your right ear. The 50th percentile American male should be around 31.5” or 80 cm.

My rule of thumb is divided your height by 2.2.

If you measure height in inches, the draw length will be inches.
If you measure height in centimeters, the draw length will be centimeters.


Q3. How much What would you like, performance vs band life ?
- You will get more significantly more shots with a slower speed using a lower strain. The bands will be a longer length so a lower number of bands. But they will last longer. Good for shooters who like longer shooting sessions.


The cut length for a 31.5” draw , should be around 20 cm. Straight cut bands will have a higher average stretch. Taper cut bands won’t stretch as far, the average strain IS lower. This means that a typical 2 meter piece of latex can be cut into 10 blocks of 20 cm long. I’m assuming an average strain of 4.4 ( A reasoned guesstimate… I know the rubber will stretch slightly differently ) and allowing 1.25” for tying.


Q4. What is the width of the latex ?


Q5. What ammo are you planning to use ?


In terms of band width, I’d juggle some numbers… Theraband isn’t 150 mm so most of the set cuts will be wrong. The Gen 1 gold was 138 mm wide, and Theraband got worse and worse after that.


I’d start aiming for around 4 sets per width… So cut around 18 mm to 15 mm taper and 20 cm long, tie them to 15.2 cm and they should pull about 13.7 lbf. A pretty aggressive setup for 3/8” steel.



Numbers for the number crunchers.
Draw force: 13.722 lbf or 6.224 Kg. - Force is calculated mass in grains / 4, so it's design not cheating... 
Draw distance: 31.500 inch or 80.010 cm. - This was an assumption, common draw length. 

Band thickness: 0.7112 mm - from "0.028*25.4", provided. 
Cut length: 7.874 inch or 20.000 cm. - Calculation with rounding. 
Tie length: 5.984 inch or 15.200 cm. - Calculation with rounding. 

Taper: 18.000 mm to 15.000 mm. - This I've played with a little... 

Pouch strain: 4.6618 - These strains are based on an old model... so lots of calculations.
Fork strain: 3.8998 
Average strain: 4.2738 

Ammo: 9.525 mm , 3.5566 g , 54.887 grains. - These were calculated using diameter and rho: 7860.3142 kg/m^3


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## KYwisher (9 mo ago)

I am keeping this information to reference. I'll bookmark this thread and tell both a friend and a family member who have also expressed interest in joining the sport. Wonderful information and I sure thank you. Extremely grateful folks. Hope I too can benefit someone one day with my experience. Don


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## craigbutnotreally (Nov 6, 2019)

Lots of good info here. I felt so lost as a beginner. Despite reading so many threads. I don’t really have much to add except to talk about my experience.

One persons set ups may not apply to you at all. I personally found a taper that worked then made the final adjustments with band thickness. It took a lot of money buying band rolls. A lot of time. A lot of frustration… but once I got it all dialed in I can basically make any band of similar thickness work. Probably not the best way to do things it’s just what worked for me. I think sticking to a thickness then dialing in the taper is probably a better approach. 

Find someone that has a similar draw and style then start there. I shoot butterfly with a longer than normal draw which made this particularly complicated at the time. Because there were so few butterfly shooters at the time and with a similar draw length to mine. So I would copy their setups and be like what the heck. This is not fun. 

It absolutely can be a tricky process. It can be frustrating. BUT some of my most fun with this hobby is experimenting. Trying new things. And finding what works for me. It keeps things interesting.


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## Crac (Mar 3, 2013)

Draw force: 7.941 lbf or 3.602 Kg 
Draw distance: 31.500 inch or 80.010 cm 

Band thickness: 0.7112 mm 
Cut length: 7.874 inch or 20.000 cm 
Tie length: 5.945 inch or 15.100 cm 

Taper: 11.000 mm to 8.000 mm 

Pouch strain: 4.9788 
Fork strain: 3.6668 
Average strain: 4.3020 

Ammo: 7.938 mm , 2.0582 g , 31.763 grains


I was aiming for around 8 lbf.
7 sets from 138 mm width: ( 11mm + 8mm ) * 7 sets = 133 mm these bands are really too thick.



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Draw force: 10.953 lbf or 4.968 Kg 
Draw distance: 31.500 inch or 80.010 cm 

Band thickness: 0.7112 mm 
Cut length: 7.874 inch or 20.000 cm 
Tie length: 6.102 inch or 15.500 cm 

Taper: 15.000 mm to 12.000 mm 

Pouch strain: 4.6529 
Fork strain: 3.7155 
Average strain: 4.1720 

Ammo: 7.938 mm , 2.0582 g , 31.763 grains


11lbf is really as heavy as I'd use... I wouldn't bend the draw force higher here with 5/16". Nor would I bend the rule with larger ammo such 3/8" steel, you are likely to get hand slap.

Aiming for 5 sets from 138 mm: ( 15 mm + 12 mm ) * 5 sets = 135 mm.



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Draw force: 9.982 lbf or 4.528 Kg 
Draw distance: 31.500 inch or 80.010 cm 

Band thickness: 0.7112 mm 
Cut length: 7.874 inch or 20.000 cm 
Tie length: 5.787 inch or 14.700 cm 

Taper: 13.000 mm to 10.000 mm 

Pouch strain: 4.9999 
Fork strain: 3.9309 
Average strain: 4.4543 

Ammo: 7.938 mm , 2.0582 g , 31.763 grains

6 sets so 138 mm on the money  Peak strain of 5, everything adjusted to match...
Got there in the end: This is how I like my bands.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

Love the objective formulas.


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

ATO has a bunch of good videos on this. First, you need to figure out the stretch ratio.


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## Rb1984 (Sep 25, 2020)

With my simpleshot black 0.7 and 3/8 steel I liked the power I got with 25/15 taper 13cm active band and short draw.
Maybe it's too much rubber for 3/8 I don't know, but I did destruction tests and I liked the power I got.

With 8mm steel I have shot 18/12 taper and I also liked it. I keep experimenting.

Cheers!


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