# 2nd Long Island NY Slingshot "Can Denting" get together



## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

A few of us got together again in NY for some more slingshot fun. Here's a link to a video we did at the 2nd Long Island Slingshot can denting challenge we had today (September 11th 2010). There is another short video too. We had a great time with some really beautiful weather. We did end up with some blisters and sore thumbs from so much shooting-but it's a good hurt! Enjoy! Flatband

http://www.youtube.com/user/Flatband?feature=mhum


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

havin fun without me or devan







looks like fun


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Enjoyed those videos!


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## dragonmaster (Dec 24, 2009)

Great videos looks like you guys had a alot of fun.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

My humble attempt to video the LI NY shoot, Gary Gangsta Flatband is the master at video, as well as a tough competitor. Had a great day, Peresh and his wife and son, are the best. Great hosts. Enjoy.
Philly


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Perfect site, perfect weather, great slingshots and obviously great people, too!

What a fantastic event. I wish I could have been there. Thanks for the vids!

Jörg


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## Mtnfolk Mike (Aug 23, 2010)

great stuff folks.. looks like a fun time...







wouldn't mind trying to organize something, with folks here, in and around the Bay area...


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## NoSugarRob (Jun 3, 2010)

Nice vids


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## hammer0419 (Aug 22, 2010)

Looks like it was a great time.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

Looks like so much fun!


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

Looks like a great time had by all. Thanks for the videos so we could get a tiny taste.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

N i i i i c e ! ! !


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

That was so much fun !

Gary won the competitive shoot. Congrats brotha!


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

peresh said:


> That was so much fun !
> 
> Gary won the competitive shoot. Congrats brotha!


Well done Gary!









Just out of interest, what did the competition involve?


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

10 shots at several hanging cans at 10 meters. Flatband 9/10, peresh 8/10, philly 7/10, arjun, 11 years old, 5/10, watch out for him. 
Philly


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

Phil, Ur an awesome shot brother! 
Thank you so much for that pen you gave him and me. He took it to school and told everyone that listened to him the story of how he won it. It's like the biggest thing in the world for him. There is a show and tell coming up in his class, and he wants to take the slingshots there, I'm wondering if that a good idea. The "liberal brigade" may not want this type of excercise in our Oyster Bay schools but I'll have to assist in this project if he's adamant. I'll have to have that class brought outside for a quick slingshot demo by Arjun.

I have two more guys from work interested. So we'll have 2 more next time.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Peresh, happy to hear he enjoyed it. He is an awesome kid. Looking forward to next time.
Phil


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Where in long island do you guys do this? I might consider the drive ....


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

The shoot has been hosted by peresh at a friends estate in Oyster Bay Cove. About 25 miles east of the city. Great fun. 
Philly


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

philly said:


> The shoot has been hosted by peresh at a friends estate in Oyster Bay Cove. About 25 miles east of the city. Great fun.
> Philly


Would take me about 5 hours to get there. Hmmm.


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Looks like a lot of slingshot fun for one and all.I would like to come up also.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

I see on another post that you guys in NH are trying to get something going there. It only takes a couple guys and a place to shoot. Our LI NY group is growing with each shoot, and everybody has a ball. Stick with it, worth the time and effort, you will have fun and make some great new friends. If you want to take the drive, I am sure Peresh would be happy to have you.
Philly


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

New Hampshire Huh? Hey Phil and Peresh and everyone else-ROAD TRIP!!!!!!!! I'll start packing the cooler! Flatband


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Hey, im retired, count me in. 
Philly


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Thanks for including me, guys. I'm looking forward to ordering my first sling shot ... which will probably be one of those spiffy EPS models I had the pleasure of playing with. Very nifty being able to bang a few cans from 10, 15, 20, and 70 meters.

I'll be happy to join you the next time you're in town.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

I wanna try and get to one. Hopefuly sometime soon


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

I'd be interested to know what kind of FPS those EPS models can fire at, with both flatband and the double bands, with the 3/8" steel ball bearings we were shooting ... if I had that information, it should be a fairly straight forward matter to compare mass-impact against that of some popular small caliber pistol rounds.

I heard someone throw around some numbers like 140-160 FPS ... does that sound reasonable ?

EDIT: Never mind - I was able to answer my own question {http://talk.slingshots.com/forums/showthread.php?t=854}.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Hey brad, isthat u? Sorry, got your name wrong in the video. Nice meeting you, u cant go wrong with theEPS. 
Philly


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

philly said:


> Hey brad, isthat u? Sorry, got your name wrong in the video. Nice meeting you, u cant go wrong with theEPS.
> Philly


Yep, this is me.

Looking forward to getting my first modern-era model. The reduced draw will be easier on my bum shoulder.

As I mentioned, I hadn't played with slingshots shot in almost 30 years ... the last one I used was a "wrist rocket" c.1980, band technology has come a long way since then, and ball bearings were not easy to come by for most consumers back in the days before internet mailorder. What a difference to have not just strong bands of the highest quality, but also perfect ammunition (heft, aerodynamics, consistent shape) ... no more hunting for small round rocks on the beach (like I used to).

Hopefully I can get together with someone local who can give me some 1:1 training on how to install/replace bands properly and efficiently.


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

Jaybird & Recurvemaster,

We would be happy to have you guys up here in NY. For your drive out here to Long Island, I can book you an overnight stay at the Hilton for next to nothing. Let's put it this way, I know Don Corleone. LOL! (just kidding ) So you let me know if you are interested. I guess I can set up another shoot in a 3 weeks or so just before it gets chilly. But heck I don't mind shooting in a blizzard.

Gary,

I don't mind the ride up there honestly.







Road trips, I love.

Brother Brad, Nice to see you here.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

PERESH: Thanks for the welcome. Always nice to find a pleasant online community.

If you're interested and available sometime, call me for a brief get together. I'm more than happy to barter some skills for a demo on how to change/adjust bands. I'd also be keen to obtain an inexpensive source for Stainless ball bearing ammo in 3/8", and a convenient magnet recovery system recommendation (what do you use ... a contractor's nail picker upper ?).

Oh, and I found an ad for my old slingshot, which I vaguely recall getting sometime 1977-1980ish.


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

Brad, sure thing. We'll get together shortly for sure. Didn't see you yesterday. Hope all is well.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Brad, look up Royal steel bearing on the net, good prices and quality bearings.
Philly


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

peresh said:


> Brad, look up Royal steel bearing on the net, good prices and quality bearings.
> Philly


Thanks. Is this them ?

Do you have any past experience with what they sell 3/8" stainless steel for, and in what quantitiy ?

Forgive me if there's already a thread on this somewhere ... I haven't learned the lay of the land in here yet.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Only 1/2" so far, $1.50 a lb, 15 lb min, $15.00 shipimg.
Phil


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

philly said:


> Only 1/2" so far, $1.50 a lb, 15 lb min, $15.00 shipimg.
> Phil


Thank you.









Lesse ... that's $37.50 for 15 lbs. I'm going to assume the price info is roughly independant of size. Any idea how many 1/2 & 3/8 balls make up 15 lbs ? Should be a simple matter to divide the grain count into the total weight (in grains) to get quantity.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Brad 1/2" steel, 128.0 grs= 55 balls to the pound. 3/8" steel 54.5 grs = 128 balls to the pound. Received 200 .375" swaged lead balls today, haven't weighed them yet but they shoot sweet out of the EPS.
Phil


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

That seems like a lot of balls for 1 person. Perhaps someone at the next shootaround might want to split an order with me ? Or vice versa ... sell me half an order. I'd be fine with either size to start with, until I get a better feel for my preferences.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

7/16 (44cal.) is also a good choice. 88 per pound. -- Tex


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

The .375 lead weighs in at 80.5 grains, or, 87 to the pound.so. 7/16 steel would be a good choice for practice and use the lead for hunting.Similar weight but different diameters, should shoot close to each other at 10 meters.
Philly


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Brad, i have 15 lbs of 1/2inch, would be willing to sell or trade 5 pounds. I paid $2.50 a pound inc shipping. Sell for the same. I prefer to trade so if you buy from Royal in another dia, that will work. 
Phil


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

philly said:


> Brad, i have 15 lbs of 1/2inch, would be willing to sell or trade 5 pounds. I paid $2.50 a pound inc shipping. Sell for the same. I prefer to trade so if you buy from Royal in another dia, that will work.
> Phil


Sounds good ... if I get an order of SS 3/8", I'll bring it to the next L.I. shootaround and we'll swap 5 lbs of one for the other.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Works for me.
Phil


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Some belated photos from the recent L.I. Shootaround.

Some veteran shooters, lining up at 15-20m.









The target: wood frame, bedsheet, six sturdy one-qt paint cans, and a decidedly battered looking tin plate. This was taken early in the day, while the targets were still fresh. By the end of the day (after about 5 hours of semi-continuous shooting), the cans were beat to heck, and several of them where riddled with holes though both sides..









Part of Flatband's slingshot smorgasboard, including 3 (count em) EPS beauties. Off to the right (just out of view) was a tray of 1/2" SS shot, and a tall jar of 3/8" SS shot. By the end of the day, we'd collectively slung around 750 rounds.









After shooting my way though many of the fine selections above, for me, it was a close tie between the A+ and the EPS ... but for whatever reason, the EPS had me dialed in. At one point, I had six consecutive hits from 15m (not bad for a 30 year layoff), and an admittedly lucky 2 consecutive hits from the insane distance of 70m meters. Beautiful slingshot.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

BTW, shooting accurately from 70 meters was a novel experience for me. I've done that with a longbow, and a rifle before, but never with a slingshot. I only took 10 shots, but after the first 2, I was able to dial in by adjusting upwards about 3 1/2 feet (I basically aimed at the top crossbar), after which I seemed to have little trouble maintaining a 3-4 foot circular grouping. I even managed to clip 2 cans.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

philly said:


> The .375 lead weighs in at 80.5 grains, or, 87 to the pound.so. 7/16 steel would be a good choice for practice and use the lead for hunting.Similar weight but different diameters, should shoot close to each other at 10 meters.
> Philly


That's a substantial difference in ballistic coefficients, you would be surprised just how much lower the steel will drop even at 10 metres. I've done quite a bit of testing myself with 0.44" Lead and 0.50" Steel, according to my scales the 0.44" weighs 7.9g (it's been alloyed for extra hardness,) and the Steel weighs 8.0g (again an alloy and chrome plated. Unfortunately I do not possess the means the compare them in a proper rig, but from my unscientific observations I would estimate the elevation of the two projectiles to differ by ~5" at 10 metres.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

Darb said:


> Some belated photos from the recent L.I. Shootaround.
> 
> Some veteran shooters, lining up at 15-20m.
> 
> ...


I wish I could join y'all. If I could acquire enough money even for the flight I wouldn't be able to afford any accommodation.









That _Performance Catapult _is stunning!


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Sam said:


> The .375 lead weighs in at 80.5 grains, or, 87 to the pound.so. 7/16 steel would be a good choice for practice and use the lead for hunting.Similar weight but different diameters, should shoot close to each other at 10 meters.
> Philly


That's a substantial difference in ballistic coefficients, you would be surprised just how much lower the steel will drop even at 10 metres. I've done quite a bit of testing myself with 0.44" Lead and 0.50" Steel, according to my scales the 0.44" weighs 7.9g (it's been alloyed for extra hardness,) and the Steel weighs 8.0g (again an alloy and chrome plated. Unfortunately I do not possess the means the compare them in a proper rig, but from my unscientific observations *I would estimate the elevation of the two projectiles to differ by ~5" at 10 metres*.
[/quote]

5" at 10m sounds a bit generous. My gut instict tells me the drop at such a short range would be a bit less than that.

Rationale: Since both have nearly identical mass, and differ chiefly in size/density, physics implies they should follow almost exactly the same ballistic arc ... in a vaccum. Assuming both are round and roughly equal in smoothness, most of the difference in ballistic behavior in a non-vaccum could then be isolated to the difference in drag, which in turn would be largely determined by the larger diameter (read: surface area) of the steel shot. I dont have the equations handy on how to compute the difference mathematically, but 5" sounds like a lot for just 10m.

Bottom line: mathematically, there WOULD indeed be a significant difference, but I think it'd manifest (geometically) at medium range any beyond, rather than at nearly point blank.

p.s. Too bad my friend Steve isnt handy ... he was a military sniper, and could probably approximate the difference. Then again, he was trained on bullet-shaped ammo moving 2000-3000 fps, so I dunno if he has ballistics tables (or a computer program) that go down to 1/15th that velocity, and include round shot of various diameters.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

I have been shooting .375 lead and 3/8 steel at 10 meters, havent seen much difference at ten meters, both shoot into a soda can the same. However, the lead hits with considerable more omph.
Philly


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

Darb said:


> The .375 lead weighs in at 80.5 grains, or, 87 to the pound.so. 7/16 steel would be a good choice for practice and use the lead for hunting.Similar weight but different diameters, should shoot close to each other at 10 meters.
> Philly


That's a substantial difference in ballistic coefficients, you would be surprised just how much lower the steel will drop even at 10 metres. I've done quite a bit of testing myself with 0.44" Lead and 0.50" Steel, according to my scales the 0.44" weighs 7.9g (it's been alloyed for extra hardness,) and the Steel weighs 8.0g (again an alloy and chrome plated. Unfortunately I do not possess the means the compare them in a proper rig, but from my unscientific observations *I would estimate the elevation of the two projectiles to differ by ~5" at 10 metres*.
[/quote]

5" at 10m sounds a bit generous. My gut instict tells me the drop at such a short range would be a bit less than that.

Rationale: Since both have nearly identical mass, and differ chiefly in size/density, physics implies they should follow almost exactly the same ballistic arc ... in a vaccum. Assuming both are round and roughly equal in smoothness, most of the difference in ballistic behavior in a non-vaccum could then be isolated to the difference in drag, which in turn would be largely determined by the larger diameter (read: surface area) of the steel shot. I dont have the equations handy on how to compute the difference mathematically, but 5" sounds like a lot for just 10m.

Bottom line: mathematically, there WOULD indeed be a significant difference, but I think it'd manifest (geometically) at medium range any beyond, rather than at nearly point blank.

p.s. Too bad my friend Steve isnt handy ... he was a military sniper, and could probably approximate the difference. Then again, he was trained on bullet-shaped ammo moving 2000-3000 fps, so I dunno if he has ballistics tables (or a computer program) that go down to 1/15th that velocity, and include round shot of various diameters.
[/quote]
If he was a military sniper I think he'd probably be looking at just under mach1 speeds, so I doubt he'd be able to approximate the drop. To get a good idea calculate their respective ballistic coefficients.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Sam said:


> If he was a military sniper I think he'd probably be looking at just under mach1 speeds, so I doubt he'd be able to approximate the drop. To get a good idea calculate their respective ballistic coefficients.


Speed of sound at sea level is roughly 1100 fps. Most high power military sniper rifles shoot in the high end of the vicinity of Mach 2 to 2.5. Aside from that, agreed ... slingshot ballistics are probably well outside his estimation experience.

In any case, I'll have to try to hornswaggle him into coming to the next shootaround, just so I can kick his butt on the can targets.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

philly said:


> Works for me.
> Phil


As soon as I hear the EPS is ready, I'll order the 3/8" steel. Assuming they take credit card and do UPS, I should have the ammo by/on the 3rd business day, latest.

On a related note, is there a thread anywhere covering how people recover, clean, sort and store their mixed-size SS shot ?

I'm assuming most people use a contractor's magnet roller, empty them into a pail of water, drain them into a towel lined tray to dry, then run them through some sort of sorting device.

I have titanium rods and screws in my spine, so there's no way I'll be stooping and bending to pick up ammo manually, 1 by 1.

Oh yeah, I can just picture the spectacle of our landscapers having their mower die horribly, after running over a pile 3/8" steel shot ... it'd probably act like an anti-personnel mine, and bean everyone in a 15 foot radius.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

{deleted - superceeded elsewhere}


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Peresh, Flatbands, et al,

I went to the archery store you referred me to, and had my longbow re-equipped ... new bowstring, vibration dampers, string guard, draw-trainer, etc. I'll see how my shoulder tolerates drawing it with my trainer grip (I'm not nearly as fit as I used to be, back when I got it 13 yrs or so ago). If it does ok, I'll grab a target setup and bring it to the next shootaround, so you gents can test your mettle with it.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Brad, I'll give it a go, shot instinctively for years with a recurve, 46# Hoyt, That was 40 years ago, shoot a compound now. Sounds like fun, bring it along for sure.
Phil


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

Guys it's time to set up another event in the next 2 weeks or so...let me get the dates posted and let you know.
Perehs.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Peresh, u the best man. Let me know. 
Phil


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Hey guys,

I was rummaging around though my memorabilia earlier, and came across some of my old boys camp awards (1972-1975):

Archery:








Riflery:








And my NRA Sharpshooter Bar 2 medal, and Bar 3 Certificate.








The medals are no longer made, and are now somewhat rare. As for the certificate, there's a story behind it. My last year of camp was back in 1975. In 1992, out of the blue, I brought my girlfriend at the time to an alumni weekend, and did my 3rd Bar qualification in a single session, shooting cold, after a 17 year layoff from guns. Not too shabby.

p.s. I obscured my last name, for reasons of internet privacy.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

philly said:


> Brad, I'll give it a go, shot instinctively for years with a recurve, 46# Hoyt, That was 40 years ago, shoot a compound now. Sounds like fun, bring it along for sure.
> Phil


I havent weighed my arrows (I may do that tomorrow), but if we guestimate 35 grams at 190 fps, that's a striking power of roughly 59 joules (43 foot-pounds), or roughly 12x that of a 3/8" steel ball bearing travelling at 150 fps. That'd really ruin a Deer's day.

Dunno if I'll be able to shoot it though ... even if my rotator cuff can take it, it'd probably aggravate the epicondylitis in my bow arm.

Getting old sucks. The mind champs at the bit, but the body just can't deliver anymore.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

PERESH: the only days I'm unavailable for the next shootaround are 10/30 & 10/31, due to my NYS Sportsman certification class. However, please dont let that stop you if those are the days that work out best for everyone else.

BTW, if any L.I. locals want to hang out and shoot a little sometime (anytime, 7 days a week), I have a small but fully enclosed backyard, and a backstop, with room for shooting at 10-13m, and I plan on getting an archery target shortly. Conversely, I'd be happy to hang out and shoot a little with any locals who have a setup.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

philly said:


> Brad, I'll give it a go, shot instinctively for years with a recurve, 46# Hoyt, That was 40 years ago, shoot a compound now. Sounds like fun, bring it along for sure.
> Phil


I think I found the site for my bow: it's a left-handed 55# zebra-wood "Mountaineer" by Martin Archery, mfg c.1992.










EDIT: just measured the arrows ... they're high-strength 32 gram hollow aluminum with steel field points and helical feathers. Just tried my draw-trainer ... it's too heavy for me these days, and I should probably sell it. It's fully equipped, in mint condition, and has rarely been used. Comes with 11 arrows, and a twin-pouch leather quiver, all in near mint condition.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

I may bring some mead to the next shootaround. I haven't brewed in almost 5 years, so my reserves are running a bit low, but I still have a few cases squirreled away of this and that.

Here's a pic of a 375ml cork-finished bottle of some of my 2000 vintage Chokecherry "faux port" Melomel (13.6% AbV, 11 brix residual), which has matured nicely (oneophiles will note the slight 'ox-blood' orange color of maturity around the edges of the tilted glass). For those who've never tasted chokecherry mead, I designed this one to have a body and finish similar to that of a ruby port, in order to be able to support the strong flavors and aggressive tannins of the chokecherry ... which, after 10 years of softening, have a flavor reminiscent of chocolate covered cherries with a hint of raspberry jam. It's a bit sweet for my taste, but otherwise it's nice.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Say, do you think one of these might be fun ?









The only hitch seems to be that since this is vertically actuated (designed for pellet guns shooting 700+fps), it needs impacts on the order of 12+ joules range to flip the plates. To duplicate that with slingshots, we'd need .44 cal lead or .50 cal steel moving at 190+ fps, which might not be practical.

Lemme look and see if I can find a decent horizontally actuated portable flip-plate system that requires about a third as much impact energy ...

EDIT: this "dueling tree" looks promising, but I havent been able to find any info on the actuation energy required, or even the size/weight of the individual plates.	In any case, it offers the interesting possibility of direct simultaneous head-to-head competition.


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Darb
We had one of those targets at the ECST and it worked with most slingshots.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Jaybird said:


> Darb
> We had one of those targets at the ECST and it worked with most slingshots.


Ah, so I'm reinventing the wheel again ? Happens to me all the time whenever I cannonball into a new hobby.









Nice to know it works. Might be fun to get one for group shootarounds then.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

PERESH: thanks for having me over to shoot earlier today.









BTW, here's the ammo pouch link I mentioned. I'm going to get one for myself. If you want me to pick up a few for you, just let me know how many, and I'll add it to my order.

http://www.amazon.co...m=ATVPDKIKX0DER


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

This thread probably belongs in the regional events subfora.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

Jaybird said:


> Darb
> We had one of those targets at the ECST and it worked with most slingshots.


How about it guys ?

Should we chip in a get a dueling tree, and perhaps a Chrony F1 that we can share and use at shootarounds ?










http://www.gamaliel....cat=1021&page=1

Should be able to spike it directly in front of my backstop design.


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