# opinions on the Combow



## mr.joel

All the talk of compounds lately I was wondering if anyone that has one of these could give their opinion as to the power, accuracy, funtion and since it is out of production...is it worth saving? I emailed Robert Blake and am awaiting his response as to whether it will be around again, I will keep you posted. But in the meantime, i'd like to hear what you have to say.


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## JoergS

Actually, I think that the combow - like my "V", which is not very different in concept - makes no sense anymore.

For both the "V" and the combow, you need to use tubular rubber. Tubular rubber is very slow in comparison to thin wide flat bands. The advantage of the draw length increase is topped by the superior performance of the thin rubber.

Tubes have the advantage that they are more robust than thin flat bands. However, that advantage is lost when you use a pulley - both the combow and the "V" do that. The "V" uses an angle of 90 degrees, the combow is using 180 degrees. The larger the angle, the more friction rests on the pulley. That is no problem for the shot, but it actually shortens the band life by a great deal. The tubes won't last very long if you pull out hard.

So both the combow and my own "V" design suffer from the same drawbacks. Bad performance (in comparison with classic slingshots using thin flat bands) AND short band life.

I think the slingshot technology has moved on, at least it has for me. I use Chinese style looped tubes for practicing, they last forever, and super thin wide flat bands, folded several times, for serious power.

Jörg


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## NightKnight

I am also leaning the way Jorg does about pulleys with tubes, although I still love the idea. I am attaching two pictures. I mocked this up in eMachineShop (cool free CAD tool) but I did not pursue it becasue I was worried about the tube movement across the pullets.

Image 1: 3D View of my compound idea, would be made of a single piece of T6. Pulleys would mount on/over the studs that are represented here.

Image 2: 2D side view. I painted in the rough route of the tubes in paint.net. Ugly, but gets the point across.


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## Frodo

hey jörg if you don't want the V anymore, you may give it to me


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## JoergS

I really only have my samples left, all of the Vs are long gone. People simply love it, maybe because it simply looks pretty cool. They are now collector's items, I guess, and since I don't follow that route anymore there won't be any further prod runs.

Aaron, I think your design has too much rubber. You'd need arms like a mutant gorilla to stretch those bands to 500%.

Keep in mind that if your draw length is 100 cm, then your bands should not be longer than 20 cm. In your design, you probably have 50 cm! So you would have to draw out 2 meters 50 (250 cm) to get some power.

Regards

Jörg


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## TruckeeLocal

Hey Aaron instead of working on pulley systems that are probably not going to be the answer maybe you should look harder at the reverse limbs on the crossbow in your post. As soon as I saw the picture it reminded me of some strange forward extensions. Maybe forward extensions like reverse bow limbs that flex to add power? That probably wont work either.

I'm like Joerg and use Chinese style attachment slings for fun and pull out the wide flatbands when I need to punch a hole in a car door.

Hey Joerg even if the V wasn't the answer to all our dreams it still should be put in the Smithsonian as one the finest pieces of slingshot design.


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## Flatband

There have been a bunch of Compound Slingshots, Slingshots using cams, Slingshots using levers,etc. over the years and the Combo was probably the best known. Well made,a good short arrow shooter (then later a full length shooter) and also with a quick tube change, a good-quite fast-round ammo shooter. Robert Blair's tubes deserve a mention here. He had small diameter tubes long before the Chinese and his tubes had a very small I.D which made them last forever.The Combo Slingshot was a well made platform that like Joerg said,provided a different shooting variation. We always love to see innovations and Mr.Blair came up with many. Oh BTW,Kent Sheppard reversed an old Combo Sling he had and turned it into the fastest Slingshot (single shot) I've seen.The tubes just naturally lend themselves to a fast reloading slingshot because they foul up a lot less then flats. Kent could get off around 18 shots a minute on target if I remember. Doesn't compete with Joerg's Gatling Slingshot but for conventional stuff-Wow! Flatband


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## Warhammer1

HI Flatband, was perusing Mels site when I came across Bells of hythe advertising for true catapulters. I was about to reply to them when I saw the notification in my inbox from this forum. Dont know if it was for me or forum in general. So I've answered anyway out of courtesy I hope.

I hope you truly enjoyed the read I provided in the link there, and hoped to impart a kind of tribute of sorts for the inventor Mr.Blair and his innovation/product, but fear it was a wasted effort. The inventor of the combow was truly a pioneer in compounding designs, and the latest site additions suggests we will never see another new one produced. Truly a tradjedy for the sport is how I feel. In the end though, consumers decide who is the winner and who has the better project or product.

I've tried writing Mr. Blair but no answers. Where to go from where he was or at... It appears that the design has outlived its time perhaps? I never did find either the cam or pulley to really help that much if at all, although the concept is intriguing. Theres always the tradeoffs. Mr.Blair though, was a pioneer and even though his designs never really caught on, he was the "bee's knees."

The nice thing about Mr. Blairs effort for me, is that it taught me the _archery world does not want change_. It has also taught me the _slingshot world does not want change_. In fact even the crossbow world does not want change. My compounding designs are really a mute point and of no interest except to me and those who love all weapons of unusual weapons design and features. Every inventor or designer has dreams of making money off the efforts and fruits of their labour, and I've no wish to end up like Mr. Blair and his wonderful Combow.

This entire thread I think is a mute point. Its exists only to show it perhaps (the combow) should have remained a private affair, a love affair of sorts between the inventor and his love of the slingshotting sport, and his love of inventing. There are prejudices and mindsets in every sport arena, and why should slingshotting be any different?

Everyone seems to think with Pathfinders web vids that the slingshot and arrows are something new. We know that to not be true, and such things were available 50 years ago. Mr. Blair however was a pioneer, daring to buck the trend, willing to try. 
My machines are not without risk. An improperly made one thats breaks in operation could or will kill the operator wuite easily. I guess that I could do without that on my conscience I guess.

For Mr. Blair I have nothing but respect, and thanx. His slingshot machines proved up that slingshots could compete with the bow in performance and KE values. An arrow just doesnt care what launches it, and his design is forever part of slingshot history. Its sad, that even after I posted the article, he has never been given credit where credit is fully due. A sad way for his combow contributions to come to an end in such a capacity as this thread is about anyhow.

Seems to me the archery folks who did the article had acquired a full respect and acknowledgement of the machines capabilities of the combow as an archery equal. Funny perhaps the respect came from the staff of an archery and bowhunting magazines and not from either the archery or slingshot consumer world.

Thats something that I doubt will ever be replicated, either in Mr. Blairs time again, or mine. My hat is off to him and his pioneering efforts. Im very happy for him he got the chance to make it happen, and he got as far as he did. An archery product that did the same job as something that cost many multiples of what he charged, but offered the same performance for a fraction of the price.

For myself, Im oldschool. I still like the latex tubes dont care if theraband tubes are faster, and like the fact that even tho flatbands my be everyones current choice, Im still squeezing the tubes for every ounce of energy they can offer. When thats done to my satisfaction, I guess the flatbands are next on my list and time to join the 21st century as many (almost everyone) have done before me.

One combow opinions, the combow rocks and is hard to beat. For me it represents the best of design in an archery slingshot not of Y fork design. No fork at all actually. True original thinking, not a mod, not a copy of anything. That much I gotta love. My only regret is that they are not sold anymore, but have no doubt sometime someone will offer them again.

The bottom line is we all have our own opinions on the combow as slingshotters, and the verdict is already passed. The combow history link at least shows the design to have elicited a strong and positive response from a dedicated archery magazine. seems to me any recent arrow flinger work is an attempt to duplicate what Mr. Blair has already accomplished some time ago...



Flatband said:


> There have been a bunch of Compound Slingshots, Slingshots using cams, Slingshots using levers,etc. over the years and the Combo was probably the best known. Well made,a good short arrow shooter (then later a full length shooter) and also with a quick tube change, a good-quite fast-round ammo shooter. Robert Blair's tubes deserve a mention here. He had small diameter tubes long before the Chinese and his tubes had a very small I.D which made them last forever.The Combo Slingshot was a well made platform that like Joerg said,provided a different shooting variation. We always love to see innovations and Mr.Blair came up with many. Oh BTW,Kent Sheppard reversed an old Combo Sling he had and turned it into the fastest Slingshot (single shot) I've seen.The tubes just naturally lend themselves to a fast reloading slingshot because they foul up a lot less then flats. Kent could get off around 18 shots a minute on target if I remember. Doesn't compete with Joerg's Gatling Slingshot but for conventional stuff-Wow! Flatband


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## Flatband

I'll have to try to get in touch with Mr. Blair. I had the great pleasure of meeting this man and his son. He just is a natural born tinkerer. Always loved to experiment. He has a wonderful personality too! Keep up your work on compounding Mr. Warhammer. You never know if someone missed something in the quest for a faster Slingshot or Bow. As far as change, it is always tough in the beginning but if the idea is sound,give it time! Very nice post too,right from the heart! Flatband


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## byknight

as I'm quit new to slingshots but i have used compound bows

I'm a bit confused about the use of the term Compound. as i see it al the designs i see here are methods of extending the band and guiding it over a pulley.

not to say they aren't good slingshots and not to tell anyone i know it all (as of course is the case ) 
but as i see the great pull but once cocked lightly held of a compound bow /sling is the main advantage.
this way you can shoot a stronger slingshot then normal.

as Hawaiian slings go this is a compound and a normal Hawaiian sling:

if anyone would help me understand the difference or set me right please do.


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## mr.joel

byknight said:


> I'm quite new to slingshots, but have used compound bows.
> 
> I'm a bit confused about the use of the term "Compound". As I see it, all the designs I see here, are methods of extending the band and guiding it over a pulley.
> 
> Not to say they aren't good slingshots and not to tell anyone I know it all,(as this is the case).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> )
> But as I see it, the great pull of a compound bow is reduced, once cocked and held is the main advantage.
> This way, you can shoot a stronger slingshot then normal.
> 
> As Hawaiian slings go, this is a compound and a normal Hawaiian sling:
> 
> If anyone would help me understand the difference, or set me right, please do.


 I am not even sure of what you are trying to say, apart from disputing the use of the term "compound," pertaining to wheel assisted slingshots.


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## wilbanba

i dont know about the combow as i havent used it.
i would however, like to have one of Joergs compound versions like the newer W with roller bearings.
i have a Marksman 3070 and while it may make tubes a bit more powerful i dont shoot with it often for two reasons: 1. its rare and if i break it i cant replace it, 2. its large so i cant sneak it anywhere.
for compounds in general i would have to have 3 things: 1. flatbands, 2. compact size (like Joergs V), 3. easy to use (i.e. no issues re-aligining flatbands [see Joergs H for nice flat band detents] etc.)


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## byknight

[quote name='mr.joel' date='06 January 2010 - 03:55 PM' timestamp='1262789744' post='1187']

well i know my spelling is bad. but i don't think my spelling would reflect on the merit.
my question is and was if there is a difference in the meaning of "compound" for bows or slingshots?

in other words is the definition of "compound" for a slingshots different than the definition of a "compound bow", other then the fact that its a bow or slingshot?

and what is the advantage over a non-compound slingshot, if it's different from the advantage of a compound bow?

p.s. its NOMENCLATURE as in TERMINOLOGY.


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## mr.joel

I think it's clear what I was refering to, even if I misspelled the one word(nomenclature).The advantage lies in the longer rubber invloved. The disdvantage in most of these systems is there is a corner the band/tube must go around inhibiting the rubber from doing what it is intended to do-increase velocity. Also, these units are inherently bulkier due to their necessary size.


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## byknight

Would the system as used in the compound hawaiian sling be a goed alternative?
Or wont that work for a land based slingshot?


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## NightKnight

byknight said:


> Would the system as used in the compound hawaiian sling be a goed alternative?
> Or wont that work for a land based slingshot?


Do you have a better pic of one? It is hard to tell how the mechanism works in that pic.


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## faca

AaronC said:


> Would the system as used in the compound hawaiian sling be a goed alternative?
> Or wont that work for a land based slingshot?


Do you have a better pic of one? It is hard to tell how the mechanism works in that pic.
[/quote]
hi for me this design are out of my bill
I like pocket slingshots no catapult war machines ;-)


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## mr.joel

I think he wants to shoot a ball through a barrel, like the bullet shooting crossbows that had rifled barrels, except manualy?Or perhaps using rubber-powered rod to shove the ball forward? Interesting ideas.


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## JoergS

A Hawaiian sling is an underwater hunting slingshot. The harpoon (spear) is shot through a length of pipe, which is really your slingshot frame. Simple and effective.

Underwater spears are for very short distances only as the water slows down the spear very quickly. On land, it doesn't make sense as for the longer distances, fins or feathers are needed to stabilize the flight of the arrow. So you would either have to use a quite large tube, which makes the shot inaccurate, or add a whisker biscuit.

On land, you shoot from a standing position, a slingshot with a grip is more effective (easier to hold and to aim) than a tube.

All in all, a Hawaiian sling is a scuba weapon. On land, the concept doesn't compete well against a slingshot.

I also respect the com bow as an invention. I just think that modern thin flat rubber is so much more efficient than tubular bands that the com bow is outdated. Flat bands rule!

Jörg


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## byknight

ok i know that i wont win the drawing competition with this but here goes:

these are the 2 positions first position is the "rest" position. the red string(A, non-elastic) is guided rond the disk on one side of the disk is a guiding rail with the rubber attached to it.
when you pull A the disk turns and the rubber stretches over the guide ( C ), when the disk is a proximately 75% turned the rubber bents around the end of the guiding rail ( C ) this way the strain is mostly on the disk. thus it is much easier to hold the "cocked" position.

this is the same principle thats seen in compound bows.

*i hope this makes it better to understand. just to be very clear i dont want to make the sea archer in to a slingshot i would like to hear what you think about the mechanism that is used. and could it be used in a slingshot.*

byknight.
btw the sea archer design is used to spear fish. there for it has a barel that guides the spear. i think the technique could work with lead balls or marbles just the same. it might just make a good compound arrow shooting slingshot. or not.


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## Warhammer1

Thank you Flatband.

I am pretty much done with "slingshot" compound designs, and actually threw out ten or twelve old designs that were rusting away in the basement, keeping my favorite compound design (no pulley wheels) for everyday use and target shooting. I try and use a thicker walled latex simply because of its toughness and that it allows a greater terminal velocity with heavier shot such as 1/2" hex nuts I pick up by the box at the hardware store. They pack a nice punch at about 15 grams or 200 grains. I'll just keep it to myself I believe Nothing would pizz me off worse than having the design copied, changed, and then become someone elses new design. Especially if I ever invested money into having some made to sell.

I think its kinda funny that folks mostly see the pulleys as a way of increasing draw length or merely reducing the pull of a heavier band for a more accurate shot. An extended fork is more effecient for increasing draw length as the acceleration is most basic and having only a vertical component to it. There is no simpler or more effecient way to accelerate an object using elastic materials than to apply force in a single direction. Adding any other components to the equation lessons that effeciency, as will any changing or complicating the directionality of the pull.

Curvilinear motion and acceleration is much different than pure linear force and straight line acceleration that the basic slingshot employs. We learn our first lesson of curvilinear motion/acceleration as a child. - One of the first things you learn when just learning to ride a bike, is that you can accelerate simply by changing from a straight line direction going into a curve. You do not need to pedal or apply any additional force - yet accelerate.

Another force used in acceleration (especially in trebuchet) is parametric resonance, we also learn this principle as a kid, when twirling objects with the fingers or hand. As we grow up we learn all the principles of acceleration from the world around us, then as adults we tend to forget those lessons. A simple sling (centrifical force/parametric resonance acceleration) used properly will outperform the basic slingshot. Staff slings were used by Romans to piece armour at distance. We all learn these things as kids and perhaps while not understanding why or how it works that way, we accept it and go on, sometimes using that knowledge but mostly forgetting it...

As you say I'll continue to seek other velocity increasing ways (for slingshots), but right now have so many designs in my head they may never get built. They also take me in very different directions and applications. Since there is very little interest or acceptance of compounding slingshots I'll wait for someone to make it popular and then perhaps come out with my designs. But as Mr. Blair found out, having a superior product is simply not enough.

I still work with compounding designs, but with ballista catapults, bows, and manuballistas. Currently Im developing a brand new tech for sports applications I have given the name "Impact Acceleration Technology" - again seeking to exploit unused energy expended and wasted during an application. Sounds kinda dangerous doesnt it?
If I ever get around to ordering some silver theraband, I'll take another look at compounding pulley slingshot designs, but the subject doesnt hold the facination for me it once did.

Eliminating the rubber component results in a faster machine. As the rubber or latex goes around the pulley it (every inch) must stretch and then contract as it straightens agan, which continually takes away (robs) energy. The longer the pull, the greater the ineffeciency is created. Using pulley just to make a longer draw is self defeating up to a point. The gain is measureable but marginal.

What do you get when you combine the Herriman W design with the Blair Combow pulley wheel design? - The Blair-Herriman Hybrid or the Herriman-Blair Combow?

Again, thanx for the comments and reply Flatband. Feel free to visit the compounding slingshot thread to discuss anything further, as this one is for the Combow and I hate hijacking threads.



Flatband said:


> I'll have to try to get in touch with Mr. Blair. I had the great pleasure of meeting this man and his son. He just is a natural born tinkerer. Always loved to experiment. He has a wonderful personality too! Keep up your work on compounding Mr. Warhammer. You never know if someone missed something in the quest for a faster Slingshot or Bow. As far as change, it is always tough in the beginning but if the idea is sound,give it time! Very nice post too,right from the heart! Flatband


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## NightKnight

Warhammer1 said:


> I am pretty much done with "slingshot" compound designs, and actually threw out ten or twelve old designs that were rusting away in the basement, keeping my favorite compound design (no pulley wheels) for everyday use and target shooting. I try and use a thicker walled latex simply because of its toughness and that it allows a greater terminal velocity with heavier shot such as 1/2" hex nuts I pick up by the box at the hardware store. They pack a nice punch at about 15 grams or 200 grains. I'll just keep it to myself I believe Nothing would pizz me off worse than having the design copied, changed, and then become someone elses new design. Especially if I ever invested money into having some made to sell.


I dont see what you have to lose. Everyone here happily shares their design with the community. If you aren't planning on doing something with it, let someone else! Why be selfish?


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## JoergS

Warhammer1 said:


> What do you get when you combine the Herriman W design with the Blair Combow pulley wheel design? - The Blair-Herriman Hybrid or the Herriman-Blair Combow?


Well, first of all it is too bad that you still refuse to share your work in the form of pictures, even the models that you have thrown out would be interesting for those of us that love visuals. Hard to imagine you hope to make money with things you kick out. So come and show us some pics, please!

Second, you are correct when you say that a straight forward extended design is more efficient than compounds. But the forward extension only works in the form of a starship design. A wrist brace is essential, because otherwise the slingshot tends to turn around in your hand, very dangerous.

A starship is really bulky and also illegal in many countries, like Germany.

So when you "marry" the flat band equipped W design and the com bow, what you get is a slingshot that is more compact than a starship and at the same time more powerful than non braced conventional designs.

A hybrid is a compromise in itself, but what would the world be without compromises? A 1911 pistol is less powerful than a rifle and bigger than a derringer, for example. A compromise between size and power. Is it unjustified that the design is so enormously successful?

Jörg


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## mr.joel

Great analogy with the 1911A1! I think you may have jumped the gun discarding your bullet launcher just because the Combow was unsuccessful. I like Joerg's W compound so much I am scratching my head trying to trade him out of one...since he can't sell me one due to legal constraints. The compounds are just more difficult to design. Your idea of utilizing levers is new, well new to slingshots anyway, and an exiting and invigorating proposition. A compact compound bullet bow is unique and should be tried and tweaked before it is judged. Without trying to sound too cliche, "nothing ventured nothing gained."

At least let Joerg, the Jedi Master of slingshots, try it out privately and give you some feedback. He's not looking to make a buck, I sincerely doubt he would steal your ideas. He might give you the feedback you need to perfect your launcher and make it more marketable. Turn not to the Dark Side. Profit from this you will not.


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## JoergS

Warhammer1 said:


> The nice thing about Mr. Blairs effort for me, is that it taught me the _archery world does not want change_. It has also taught me the _slingshot world does not want change_. In fact even the crossbow world does not want change.


I disagree. Completely. People love new ideas, and if they are any good, then they get adopted fairly quick.

Look at a modern bowtech bow - what a high tech thing it is now, in comparison to 20 years ago. And look at bow trigger guards and releases on the market today! Technology wherever you look at, with constant advance, and last year's models 25% cheaper than this year's.

Crossbows, same thing. Now we have commercial crossbows that do 440 fps, and don't need crank handles. Cams and great material make it possible.

When it comes to slingshots, don't forget that most people use them because they are cheap, and easy to make. The com bow was expensive and impossible to make for a normal person. Plus, it never had pro marketing efforts and dollars behind it.

But when you look at the Saunders Wrist Rocket Pro... flat bands, extended fork, the most elegant brace mechanism I have seen so far. What a difference to previous models! And a great success, for a slingshot.

Then the Chinese, with their "pretzel" shooters. Very popular already, even though two years ago noone ever thought they would want a steel slingshot with tubular rubber.

Pathfinder has excited people with an idea that was simple enough for everybody to replicate, and he then diligently enhanced it. He deserves the success he now enjoys, with a great many youtube views every day.

For commercial success, here is what you need if you are an inventor:

- A great idea
- Many generations of prototypes, until there is a product that really works, is safe and can be produced at a reasonable price
- A distribution company that has well established access to the relevant market
- An investor that is willing to come up with the necessary funds for marketing and production

Regards

Jörg


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## Warhammer1

Hey Mr. Joel.

You found a benefit and feature of my design(s) right away, and Aaron made a point about the Thera-bands which tells me he is also cluing in. I cannot get more specific than what I have been in dropping hints and there. For many years I just quit posting on slingshot threads at all. With Jorgs popularity I figured if I could get him to clue in on the basic design and let him make it acceptable or popular, my more advanced designs might be accepted once the basic principle was accepted. As you can see that has not happened yet, and I cannot "draw you a picture" without giving patentability. No one listens is your not percieved as a leading "expert".

My thread on compounding designs using elastics was started for just that purpose. Jorg can do more with one video that all my marketing effort/work over the past ten years. Since I turned my attention to crossbows where the potential rewards are far greater ($1000.00 crossbows not uncommon) I have had much more success. My favorites machine is still my power assisted slingshot model because of the fun factor. A crossbow expert only need pull the string to recognise its potential. Even then it requires a couple of weeks study by them to figure it out the why and how. Excalibur crossbows being one, and world renowned crosbowman Robin Allen of the crossbowmansden.com being the second expert to have to study it for awhile - simple as it is.

Unfortunately all my posts on trumark site deleted (cant really blame them), and many here because I handled things badly and always seem to find myself in a pissing contest which is self defeating. Until someone more personable like Jorg can change the mindset of slingshotters, its (compounding designs)pretty much a lost cause. I am a little short tempered as I run into the exact same mindset in all catagories, slingshot, archery, crossbows.

So my decision is just to create a new category of primitive weapons - Ballistic's would be the proper term but is used already, having been swiped from Ballista's.

Once I can afford to get IP protection,or once I have a deal signed for crossbows or bows, you can have all the pictures you can handle. If the inswinger ballista vid. doesnt clue on someone in nothing will.

A wrist braced slingshot is illegal in someplaces, but one with no rubber powerband(true catapult) may not be illegal. Where any slingshot is currently illegal, a true catapult is not covered. In essence my design is a modified mini siege-engine. I bump heads there too. BUT, some top minds are now validating in-swinger technology. Once done my products will stand a much better chance. Never mind I probly know more than the current experts in the field.

Australia is now trying to pass new weapons legislation making bows, crossbows, slingshots, just about any kind of weapon illegal to own. One of the reasons for the big size of my machine is so that it CANNOT be hidden or considered a "hidden weapon". With all the hunting activities going on with slingshots, it wont be long till new slingshot legislation is adopted nationally.

We all know slingshots are NOT toys, but yet no one thinks twice about buying their kids one. Responsible use is the key, but it seems to be going the opposite way when you watch youtube and read about slingshots in the news.

JOrg mentioned about extended fork slingshots turning around and yeah, thats true. Thats one of the features of the inswinging catapult/slingshot. It totaly eliminates that problem as well. Unfortunately slingshotters in the past have been so prejuduced about compounds, no one would listen or appreciate my work. So yeah, after so many years of my work being dismissed offhand, I have developed an attitude prob. I guess. So I can be an asshole,and still not be ashamed to be one. I feel like I've earned the right. An incorrect assumption of course...

So to all whom I've offended, an apology, but I will not post pictures as yet. The clues will have to do.

http://warhammer1.wordpress.com/2009/12/

On IP protection - appliable patentability issues...

http://74.125.95.132/search?q=cache:tTmIwgdZ620J:www.mdvet.be/Europe/EUPlatform/Minutes/WG2/WEB-T.Gauthier.ppt+patenting+and+public+disemination&cd=10&hl=en&ct=clnk

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mr.joel said:


> Great analogy with the 1911A1! I think you may have jumped the gun discarding your bullet launcher just because the Combow was unsuccessful. I like Joerg's W compound so much I am scratching my head trying to trade him out of one...since he can't sell me one due to legal constraints. The compounds are just more difficult to design. Your idea of utilizing levers is new, well new to slingshots anyway, and an exiting and invigorating proposition. A compact compound bullet bow is unique and should be tried and tweaked before it is judged. Without trying to sound too cliche, "nothing ventured nothing gained."
> 
> At least let Joerg, the Jedi Master of slingshots, try it out privately and give you some feedback. He's not looking to make a buck, I sincerely doubt he would steal your ideas. He might give you the feedback you need to perfect your launcher and make it more marketable. Turn not to the Dark Side. Profit from this you will not.


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## byknight

Maybe its not the right time to ask but did anyone understand my explanation?


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## JoergS

I think I understand the principle!

The only issue I see is that for a ball shooting slingshot, you would need huge discs. For a 100 cm draw, you would need a disk with a 20 cm diameter! Also, the string would lash out like a whip after the slingshot has been shot, right? Dangerous.


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## Warhammer1

Okay. At first I didnt undersand from the pics how it worked. Your explanation helps in that it explains the purpose of the design. It is not to gain extra drawlength, but provides a mech. advantage in using a heavy draw band, and obtaining max. benefits from a shorter pull. A single pulley design would provide a two to one mech. adv.

This means that the user only has to use half the force to draw the machine. In a block and tackle situation (lifting a heavy weight)it allows someone to lift something twice as heavy as they are. But, they must draw or pull the string two inches to lift the weight one inch. Upon release however, the weight (heavy pull band) will draw in two inches of string. The mech. adv. has effectively doubled the speed of the string retraction, as for every inch the weight drops, the string on the other side of the pulley must move two inches. It has compounded the force applied to the work 50lbs pull lifting 100lbs weight.

The mechanical advantage has doubled the work capability of the user, despite a lack of strength. It has in essence been "compounded".

Thousands of years ago the chinese had compounding designs on siege engines, using multiple bows using a single string to multiple force and velocities. No evidence of pulleys have been uncovered but certainly the design would have benefitted from them by reducing friction and resulting heating up of the string.

...............................................................



byknight said:


> ok i know that i wont win the drawing competition with this but here goes:
> 
> these are the 2 positions first position is the "rest" position. the red string(A, non-elastic) is guided rond the disk on one side of the disk is a guiding rail with the rubber attached to it.
> when you pull A the disk turns and the rubber stretches over the guide ( C ), when the disk is a proximately 75% turned the rubber bents around the end of the guiding rail ( C ) this way the strain is mostly on the disk. thus it is much easier to hold the "cocked" position.
> 
> this is the same principle thats seen in compound bows.
> 
> *i hope this makes it better to understand. just to be very clear i dont want to make the sea archer in to a slingshot i would like to hear what you think about the mechanism that is used. and could it be used in a slingshot.*
> 
> byknight.
> btw the sea archer design is used to spear fish. there for it has a barel that guides the spear. i think the technique could work with lead balls or marbles just the same. it might just make a good compound arrow shooting slingshot. or not.


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## statikpunk

Warhammer personally I am not huge on the the whole mechanical slingshot idea 
i think 100% of the charm of slingshots is their simplicity. but I do think the idea is worth exploring. that being said i dont see a high powered slingshot catching because of practicality a "higher "powered slingshot is still only going to hunt small game (which a regular slingshot does fine) and if you could design a slingshot that could kill large game, it wouldnt get much use because we have guns that do that just fine (unless you live somewhere where guns are restricted, in which case the new "gun powered" slingshots would be quickly outlawed too) and we already know target shooters prefer lighter slinghsots (generally).

now, you say your designs are not accepted by the slingshot community (well then who are you going to sell them to? if not the slingshot community.) and not to rile you up but maybe they dont like them because they are bad. i cant say either way i have not seen a working model yet. I dont want to discourage you from making slingshots and i certainly love to see inovation, but your attitude (even if you cant help it ) is not going to help with getting encouragement from other people. 
anyway good luck with your designs and I hope to see one soon.


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## Warhammer1

Hey, thats ok. The main thing for me is the fun factor. I have a slingshot that shoots and feels like archery but shoots ball bearings and other stuff. That was the main goal of the design, to build something I could spend many happy hours shooting. In that I have succeeded and have gotten a lot of use from it over the years. Mostly I just like to do things in a different way than everyone else, or see if I can tweak a little more fps from the design. Designing is just a hobby,so far...

As for my ballista bow, I dont know if anything will come of it, but is promising so far. The manuballista or "crossbow" I think is a good use as it is just a mini siege-engine. The nice thing is that I can take what I learned and apply it to regular bowlimbs and crossbow limb tech. Talisman crossbows is coming out with a production model of a spring powered crossbow next year (or so they say). Actually it is now gas powered, and the developer claims 600fps. Check it out. Very nice work.

Only a very small percentage of crossbow enthusiasts like the idea. Almost all say its not a crossbow by def. Anyhow, I am hijacking the combow thread, so if anyone wants to go any further on the subject I'll be on the compounding slingshots thread. Thanx again for the reply!

W.



statikpunk said:


> Warhammer personally I am not huge on the the whole mechanical slingshot idea
> i think 100% of the charm of slingshots is their simplicity. but I do think the idea is worth exploring. that being said i dont see a high powered slingshot catching because of practicality a "higher "powered slingshot is still only going to hunt small game (which a regular slingshot does fine) and if you could design a slingshot that could kill large game, it wouldnt get much use because we have guns that do that just fine (unless you live somewhere where guns are restricted, in which case the new "gun powered" slingshots would be quickly outlawed too) and we already know target shooters prefer lighter slinghsots (generally).
> 
> now, you say your designs are not accepted by the slingshot community (well then who are you going to sell them to? if not the slingshot community.) and not to rile you up but maybe they dont like them because they are bad. i cant say either way i have not seen a working model yet. I dont want to discourage you from making slingshots and i certainly love to see inovation, but your attitude (even if you cant help it ) is not going to help with getting encouragement from other people.
> anyway good luck with your designs and I hope to see one soon.


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## byknight

@Jorg and Warhammer,

i understand the difficulty's with this design, just for the sake of argument I like to explore the idea a bit further

If you would mount 2 disk vertically on the W design would 20 cm be a problem?

And to stop the whipping motion one could guide the strings trough 2 O-rings like you see in the sea archer.

It won't make the best looking design but if I understand warhammer right it shoots 2 times as fast as a normal slingshot with the same draw strength.

And a more complicated modal could use more than one pulley.

For targeting use I would say this is a big plus you don't have to pull very hard so that you can easily aim but the projectile does fly more strait.

That's the reason why in bow shooting the target of a compound bow is less then half of that of a "normal" bow.

byknight


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## JoergS

It would only shoot twice as fast as long as you use very lightweight ammo.

My strongest slingshots achieve their peak (80 Joules) with .75 (19mm) lead balls, shooting those at 67 meters per second.

Straight rubber won't do more than 90 meters per second, even with very light ammo.

Only if you need to get a higher speed than 90 meters per second, a mechanism (a transmission, to be more precise) is needed. YOu can do it with levers, you can do it with wheels, you can do it with compressed air (like the Airowgun). But you will always loose energy because of the friction.

So again: A transmission based slingshot won't be STRONGER. It may shoot FASTER, with light ammo. But the delivered energy will alway be lower.

Regards

Jörg


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## smitty

I think you have some good ideas based on the cams of compound bows and whether,or not, they will "break-over" using rubber on a slingshot to release pull force. You should work on a functioning model to try out your ideas. It doesn't have to be well finished or even complete. Just put together enough hardware to check out if an eccentric cam, with rubber, will break over the way it does with a compound bow. Looks like a person who has a compound bow could take it apart on one end and try one strip of rubber on that cam.


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## byknight

i think im gone make me a model and see what happens i believe avery word you tell me. but i like the mechanical part of it so i think ill make one from wood or some thing il keep you all posted of course


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## smitty

Yeah, please let us know what you decide and give us some pictures!


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## mr.joel

JoergS said:


> It would only shoot twice as fast as long as you use very lightweight ammo.
> 
> My strongest slingshots achieve their peak (80 Joules) with .75 (19mm) lead balls, shooting those at 67 meters per second.
> 
> Straight rubber won't do more than 90 meters per second, even with very light ammo.
> 
> Only if you need to get a higher speed than 90 meters per second, a mechanism (a transmission, to be more precise) is needed. YOu can do it with levers, you can do it with wheels, you can do it with compressed air (like the Airowgun). But you will always loose energy because of the friction.
> 
> So again: A transmission based slingshot won't be STRONGER. It may shoot FASTER, with light ammo. But the delivered energy will alway be lower.
> 
> Regards
> 
> Jörg


For comparison, a Brown Bess musket shoots a .72 calber lead ball at about 1000fps with 100grains of FF black poweder as opposed to a .75 ball travelling at 220 fps...however I think the original musket load was about 75 grains of FF-the steel they used in that time was not nearly as strong as today's gun barrels. Is that figure of 67m/220fps for the compound W slingshot?


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## JoergS

Well, a gun is certainly a lot more powerful than a slingshot, which really only converts your muscle power into kinetic energy.

But airguns, for example, have between 4 and 16 Joules, compared to 80 Joules...

The 67 m/s have been measured with my self centering "W" slingshot, using two sheets of 14x9x20 cm Thera Band Blue. That is the same as one sheet of 28x18x20cm...

Can't measure anything right now, my chrony is defective plus it would be way too cold for comparative tests. Also I have not started to optimize the band sets for the compound W.

I may end up with about 10% increase, just a gut feeling.


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## Warhammer1

Sorry to hear your chrony crapped out on you. Watch this youtube vid on a "free" chrony. Its software you can use to measure velocity and it works. I got 81.63 Mps with some worn out thick walled latex tubing and a 7gram weight. Another friend from Germany sent it to me by email.






I changed to some really crummy latex the other nightg that was so thin it wouldnt grip the 1/4 inch metal rod levers, and got only 52 mps with the same weight. The pull was really too light to load the springs properly,not even close to engaging the 'gear reduction" effect so I wasnt too impressed with the numbers...

I figure if the heavy pull Trumark band can give me 35lbs of pull, I should be able to get 90-95 MPS maybe more. I have never used anything other than storebought latex tubing, with oversized heavy duty leather pouches. That might not seem fast to you but remember I also am accelerating about two ounces of steel levers as well. That probly soaks up a few mps.

EAch lever is six and a half inches of 1/4 inch metal rod and there are two of them. It used to be faster with thinner rods but I made these ones with the intention of trying up to about 40-45lbs pull to see what a hunting model would be like to shoot.

The real value of the "transmission" is that it reverses the normal powercurve for the first 30-40 degrees of lever arc on release. Then maximum leverage kicks in at 90 degrees and its a normal power curve from there on down to zero.

Hope you enjoy the free chrony software - it works great for free!



JoergS said:


> Well, a gun is certainly a lot more powerful than a slingshot, which really only converts your muscle power into kinetic energy.
> 
> But airguns, for example, have between 4 and 16 Joules, compared to 80 Joules...
> 
> The 67 m/s have been measured with my self centering "W" slingshot, using two sheets of 14x9x20 cm Thera Band Blue. That is the same as one sheet of 28x18x20cm...
> 
> Can't measure anything right now, my chrony is defective plus it would be way too cold for comparative tests. Also I have not started to optimize the band sets for the compound W.
> 
> I may end up with about 10% increase, just a gut feeling.


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## JoergS

You are saying that you get unheard of results from worn out tubular rubber. So I say show us the pics or live with the doubts of your audience.

This thread is about a great, now historic slingshot (the com bow) that is real and has proven its viability in public. If you think yours is better, then SHOW US THE THING. Or keep it entirely secret if you must.

This is just my personal opinion.

Thanks for the home made chrony tip, but I do not trust the method's results and will simply repair my chrony. I have two great sources for spare parts (older chronies that took a hit), so that should work.


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## TruckeeLocal

I want to see pictures of this hand held hatra ballista. Its not going to be a slingshot because its a latex powered hatra ballista.


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## JoergS

TruckeeLocal said:


> Its not going to be a slingshot because its a latex powered hatra ballista.


I'd like to reword this... it WOULD BE a hatra ballista if it WOULD exist, which Warhammer has yet to prove.

Nothing but talk = Vaporware
Sketch = Better than nothing
Photo = Good start
Video = The ideal proof

Do we have to sneak up to your house like Paparazzi in order to see this miracle? I'm really bad at sneaking and would prefer the easy, usual way of simply looking at an uploaded picture or video here on the forum.


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## Warhammer1

Jorg. There is very little point in having a compounding slingshot if it does not improve performance. I've tried my best to explain it as simply as I can. Mr. Joel gets it. Aaron gets it. Or part of the equation anyway. Sorry you do not.

I will stop posting on the combow thread as this is no longer about it. And as requested will stop posting replies on the compounding slingshot thread as well.

Terminal velocity of latex tubes is about 270. Your W designs do pretty well and could do better if not shooting cannon balls. If my design cannot squeeze out 300 fps or better its not worth pursuing. 68mps is not much. I can make a slingshot from two mousetraps or rat traps and a bit of string that will smoke that easily. Anybody can..

Warhammer.

Addition: Maybe Aaron who does get it, can make one. If you are too chicken. Powerbands actually slow the machines performance, but helps give me the draw I want. 68mps is SLOW.



JoergS said:


> You are saying that you get unheard of results from worn out tubular rubber. So I say show us the pics or live with the doubts of your audience.
> 
> This thread is about a great, now historic slingshot (the com bow) that is real and has proven its viability in public. If you think yours is better, then SHOW US THE THING. Or keep it entirely secret if you must.
> 
> This is just my personal opinion.
> 
> Thanks for the home made chrony tip, but I do not trust the method's results and will simply repair my chrony. I have two great sources for spare parts (older chronies that took a hit), so that should work.


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## Warhammer1

For a moderator JOrg, you kinda suck. Instead of insults, why not just make one? Two little mousetraps, a few boards, a piece of string. No need to insult me, just boot me off he forum.

Show some class.



JoergS said:


> Its not going to be a slingshot because its a latex powered hatra ballista.


I'd like to reword this... it WOULD BE a hatra ballista if it WOULD exist, which Warhammer has yet to prove.

Nothing but talk = Vaporware
Sketch = Better than nothing
Photo = Good start
Video = The ideal proof

Do we have to sneak up to your house like Paparazzi in order to see this miracle? I'm really bad at sneaking and would prefer the easy, usual way of simply looking at an uploaded picture or video here on the forum.
[/quote]


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## mr.joel

I have to agree with Joerg, too much talk, not enough action.


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## TruckeeLocal

Ok kids play nice. Before anyone goes running home to mommy I'm going to start a post related to this subject. I really don't care if it exists or not. I'm just interested in the theory of the design even if its not really a slingshot.

I hope everyone continues to comment.


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## mr.joel

No one is going to kick you off the forum, this one believes in free speech, at least so far. But your lengthy, verbose, mathmatical schpeels do little to truly convince us. "A picture says a thousand words," a cheesey old proverb but true. Maybe show us some ballistic gelatin tests at minimum. I understand your patent issues, but with that in mind why aren't spending your energy obtaining them?

I also agree Joerg does shoot cannon balls(lol).


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## JoergS

I am looking for energy, not speed. It is my firm believe that a powerful slingshot has to use heavy bullets.

At 67 m/s, my .75 balls (36 gramms) do 80,8 Joules. A hit with that ball is devastating, as all of the energy is delivered, none is wasted.

To achieve 80 Joules with a 7 gramm bullet, you would have to shoot it a 151 m/s, almost 500 fps. I think doing that with mouse traps won't work. But who knows, I may be wrong. Show me and I will be the first to applaud.

I have nothing against theoretical talk about designs, I just think in a thread about real slingshots, you need to show what you have.

I don't want to insult anyone, all I want is to see pictures. Make a slingshot out of mousetraps, if you want, and upload pics of it, that would be a good start. On second thought, it would even be *very* interesting.

A video on youtube "turbo slingshot with mousetraps" would get you a lot of hits for sure.

And you may go ahead and keep bumping up your otherwise sleeping thread all day long. All I said in a PRIVATE mail was to say that I don't think it is proper "netiquette" to do that.

The fact that I am a moderator here won't prevent me from having an own opinion, and expressing it. Should that be wrong, then I'd rather NOT be a moderator. I don't like handcuffs and believe in free speech, as long as proper language is used.

Jörg


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## Warhammer1

- Just build one. No compounding pulleys needed. do your own testing, see for yourself.



mr.joel said:


> No one is going to kick you off the forum, this one believes in free speech, at least so far. But your lengthy, verbose, mathmatical schpeels do little to truly convince us. "A picture says a thousand words," a cheesey old proverb but true. Maybe show us some ballistic gelatin tests at minimum. I understand your patent issues, but with that in mind why aren't spending your energy obtaining them?
> 
> I also agree Joerg does shoot cannon balls(lol).


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## JoergS

Why should I do your job? It's your design. Go ahead and show it to us.


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## mr.joel

"I am looking for energy, not speed. It is my firm believe that a powerful slingshot has to use heavy bullets". -Joerg

What is the minimum size of a lead ball in your belief for a powerful slingshot?


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## JoergS

I think the .44 lead balls are the smallest you should use in a POWERFUL slingshot, those weigh bout 9 gramms (144 grains).

The heaviest balls I have used so far are the 82 gramms (1312 grain) .91 lead balls, those are too heavy for a handheld slingshot.

12 to 16 mm lead is very good, and for trained shooters like me, the .75" (19mm) lead works best. You should see and hear this thing hitting the back stop, I just love the power.

Regards

Jörg


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## combowslingguy 1

Wow ! Thank you for remembering me. I am combowslingguy Robert Blair I am fairly new here and as an older guy it is a little harder to learn new things. I just found this topic. As I said I am an older guy but, still in good health. I found this forum as a result of Jax who is a member. He has a video shooting one of my short arrows with just a band held in his hand. There has been many that thought shooting a short arrow in my Com Bow Sling was a dangers. Then Glock 907 ask about Break Free and the Linear Bow. They used my Com bow Sling Patent for it. I worked with them with it. I sent a little answer to that topic. I still make a few Com bow Slings My web page is www.combowslingguy.com/index.html Dont be afraid of I am not taking orders scare anyone. I can be found through it. I was very happy with the comments of flat band. But thought that it was a real tribute from Warhammer .Thank you. Yes Com Bow Sling didn't have the success it could have had . There were many things that entered in and much was my fault. I had an attachment for the front of a spear gun and It used pulleys. About thirty years ago that could get the same results with half the pull. Or much better results with the same pull. I think that I am happy for the chance that I have had .I still think that if I could get someone to help there could still be some real products. The full length arrow mode will beat recurves or long bows for a given draw weight. You will notice that I didn't say a compound. At break free we had a cross bow the Linear Bow that out did a compound cross bow of150# to only 125# by over 150 yards for distance. I had a chance to meet many people that are notable in many companys. And don't have real regrets. Again thanks to all. And especially for the kind comments. Well,I don't think that I am finished yet as I still work on ideas. It is still fun to try things. Unless the Heavenly Father has other plans .
I do better with a spell check.


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## JoergS

Robert,

great to see you here on the forum! You are truly welcome.

To hear that you are still making the Combow is even better... I need one for my collection, and a presentation on The Slingshot Channel is called for as well. I will PM you for details.

Did you ever test the speed of the shots from the Combow? And did you experience shortened band life from the chafing (contact of the tubes with the pulleys)? The latter is an issue on my "V" design, which uses rollers too.

Again, fantastic to see your post. You are a living legend!

Jörg


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## Warhammer1

Hello Mr. Blair, and welcome to the slingshot forum. A real pleasure to have you here and hope you frequent! I posted an article I found on Archerytalk.com where they featured you in a "Blast from the Past" article.

I'm glad to hear you still make the occasional combow and will try to order one soon, along with those nifty little arrows. I wanted to get some many years ago for my first inswinger slingshot. If you have seen JoergS video on his wooden version, the design allows tubes to outperfom the flatbands they use. Naturally I use an extended fork design with arms about twice the lengths of JoergS.

I once wrote you some years back offering to help if I could but received no reply. JoergS would be an excellent person to help you with a new design,and can make it famous instantly on his slingshot channel. You could do worse than outfitting him with the whole kit and kaboodle he could show it on youtube. Be warned though, it should result in some orders...

Anyway, Im glad to know you are still kickin' and that my wordy tribute was appreciated.










Warhammer
http://warhammer1.wordpress.com/in-swinger-ballista-slingshot/



combowslingguy said:


> Wow ! Thank you for remembering me. I am combowslingguy Robert Blair I am fairly new here and as an older guy it is a little harder to learn new things. I just found this topic. As I said I am an older guy but, still in good health. I found this fourm as a result of Jax who is a member. He has a video shooting one of my short arrows with just a band held in his hand. There has been many that thought shooting a short arrow in my Com Bow Sling was a dangers. Then Glock 907 ask about Break Free and the Linear Bow. They used my Com bow Sling Patent for it. I worked with them with it. I sent a little answer to that topic. I still make a few Com bow Slings My web page is www.combowslingguy.com/index.html Dont be afraid of I am not taking orders scare anyone. I can be found through it. I was very happy with the comments of flat band. But thought that it was a real tribute from Warhammer .Thank you. Yes Com Bow Sling didn't have the success it could have had . There were many things that entered in and much was my fault. I had an attachment for the front of a spear gun and It used pulleys. About thirty years ago that could get the same results with half the pull. Or much better results with the same pull. I think that I am happy for the chance that I have had .I still think that if I could get someone to help there could still be some real products. The full length arrow mode will beat recurves or long bows for a given draw weight. You will notice that I didn't say a compound. At break free we had a cross bow the Linear Bow that out did a compound cross bow of150# to only 125# by over 150 yards for distance. I had a chance to meet many people that are notable in many companys. And don't have real regrets. Again thanks to all. And especially for the kind comments. Well,I don't think that I am finished yet as I still work on ideas. It is still fun to try things. Unless the Heavenly Father has other plans .
> I do better with a spell check.


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## Flatband

Robert,
you still kicking around with the designs Bud! Really great to see you on here. Hope your son is doing well too. I still say your tubes outlasted any I ever used. I still have originals tubes from the Beeman Ninja. Glad you're in good health and again, great to hear from you! Gary (Flatband)


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## combowslingguy 1

JoergS said:


> Robert,
> 
> great to see you here on the forum! You are truly welcome.
> 
> To hear that you are still making the Combow is even better... I need one for my collection, and a presentation on The Slingshot Channel is called for as well. I will PM you for details.
> 
> Did you ever test the speed of the shots from the Combow? And did you experience shortened band life from the chafing (contact of the tubes with the pulleys)? The latter is an issue on my "V" design, which uses rollers too.
> 
> Again, fantastic to see your post. You are a living legend!
> 
> Jörg


HI Jorg,
Thank you for your reply to my entery. I sent you a reply here a few days ago but alas' I am afraid that it ended up not going through. I mentioned that I was sorry for not ever answering you kind e mail of about 3 years. I said that I have had a chronagraph for over 30 years. My bands last for a very long time. The real reason I didn't answer was that I thought that there might be a conflict. Your ' V " was quite a design along with many others. You are really into slingshots. Do you avreage 1 design a day, Ha ! I enjoy your threads and especially like your Youtube Channel. You said that I am a living legend. Well ,thank you for that. You are the real legend in a lot shorter time.
That is a wonderful opportunity you are offering me. The fact that in your country you are not able to have braces.That is a very important feature of my Com Bow Sling. And as I put on my web sight www.combowslingguy.com/index.html that it adjust to you so you don' t have to adjust to it. also. I don't think that it would be too good at this time as, I am not really able to produce in any numbers at this time. As stated on my web sight that I am looking for someone to get involved. I have had several that expressed an interest but, nothing has come of it. There is several Companies that say that there is no need for more power. And often they advertise there power or speed. I noticed that a year or so ago a Company pretty much offered you a job. Maybe you can put in a good word. Perhaps this will be a kind of an answer to your nice P M.Thanks for all you do for the sport and your kindness to me. Sincerely, combowslingguy Robert Blair


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## combowslingguy 1

This is probably not the place for my comment but, here goes anyway. I had a computer crash a long time ago .So I had to enter a pass word. It sure a pain when one forgets a pass word. I was combowslingguy and now I am combowslingguy 1. As combowslingguy was already used . So I had to change . I had to change my e mail too as I could not use the same one. I bet no one could guess the new one. I don't think this old guy will forget again.

I do like this and other forums as they perform a very good service. I also entered this so my avatar would be on too. The other one don't have much in the way of face .Thank you , Robert Blair


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## Tex-Shooter

It is always good to here from you Robert! I too has a computer crash several years ago and know the trouble it can cause! -- Tex


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## Charles

Hello Robert,

Delighted to see you with us again. Love my Com Bow!

Cheers .... Charles


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## combowslingguy 1

Thanks to both of you, Tex - Shooter and Charles. I think that you felt me pain Tex in my computer crash . It is not much fun as I ended up with a new name. I only added a 1. And glad that you like my Com Bow Sling ,Charles. Take care guys.Robert Blair


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