# Extending Draw Length by 3 Inches



## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

If your draw is about 38 inches, like my draw length is and I change my hold and can get another 3 inches of draw length, what speed increase would I expect to get ?

I really don't want to do any testing on this, but I will if I have to. If, through your experience it is only 3 ft per second or so, it is not worth changing how I hold the pouch ... but if it is in the neighborhood average of 7-10 fbs ... then that is worth it, that would bring me to a almost 500% elongation now I'm at about 460%

My static length is 8 1/4"

wll


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

why do you need this ? you got plenty power; now its time to enjoy what you got and stop trying to improve it, you got it perfect !

(IDK HOW THIS CAN BE OFFENSIVE BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, NO OFFENSE INTENDED)


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

zippo said:


> why do you need this ? you got plenty power; now its time to enjoy what you got and stop trying to improve it, you got it perfect !
> 
> (IDK HOW THIS CAN BE OFFENSIVE BUT JUST TO BE CLEAR, NO OFFENSE INTENDED)


Nope, it is all about getting the most I can, not interested at all about the possibility of leaving extra FPS on the table. If i can get the sling to shoot flatter with the weight I'm shooting I'll take it.

Like I mentioned, I'm VERY , VERY much into getting the most out of the shooting equipment I have. I was this way when I shot competitive archery as well as on pistol teams.

wll


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

Wll I use to do the same thing many many years ago with being competitive just like you with pistol & rife teams....

But some where along the line it got to be hey this is enough....Hang it up....I did for a very long time went back too

'fishing & backpacking......then came full circle again only with slingshots.....I learn just enough to have fun shooting at

soda pop cans....is good enough for me....But glad you are going the extra mile to squeeze it all out for the number's so

you get you best for the style shooting you do......~AKAOldmiser


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

View attachment 76432
Slingshot fun

View attachment 76433
Slingshot fun

View attachment 76434
Slingshot fun

View attachment 76435
NOT slingshot fun

Any questions ?


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

As close as you are to 500%, I think you will find the gain to be quite significant...... Kinda startin to wonder why, with your goals, you insist on playing in the middle of the road, and don't just go FULL BUTTERFLY?????

It IS where you'll be headed next.... Right now you're just wastin time, and good rubber....

You will not get "the most" if you do not GIVE "the most"... The most being the greatest possible distance between the frame and the pouch..


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

dupe


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

dupe


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't know... experimenting with getting the most out of your equipment certainly can be fun for me....

Generally speaking, you'll get an increasing amount of speed per inch of stretch... in other words, one inch may add 2 - 5 fps the next inch will add an additional 3-6 fps, the next inch an additional 4-7 fps... and so on until you reach max pull.

So for 3 inches of additional pull you're looking at generally 10-15 fps of additional acceleration... depending on how close to the max you're pulling.

Usually an easier solution for most is to shorten the elastics to match your draw though... a 5:1 draw ratio is a pretty good goal for getting the most out of most bandsets (7.25" active length for 38" draw)

... although more stretch is usually able to be applied


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Bill Hays said:


> I don't know... experimenting with getting the most out of your equipment certainly can be fun for me....
> 
> Generally speaking, you'll get an increasing amount of speed per inch of stretch... in other words, one inch may add 2 - 5 fps the next inch will add an additional 3-6 fps, the next inch an additional 4-7 fps... and so on until you reach max pull.
> 
> ...


Bill, Thank you very much, that is just the kind of info I was looking for.

You know all the testing I do, for me it is a lot of fun and I greatly enjoy it. Look at all the great designs you have and are still coming up with, you would not do it if it was not fun.

I just may shorten the tube set up a bit too, thank you for the thought ; -)

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Lee Silva said:


> As close as you are to 500%, I think you will find the gain to be quite significant...... Kinda startin to wonder why, with your goals, you insist on playing in the middle of the road, and don't just go FULL BUTTERFLY?????
> 
> It IS where you'll be headed next.... Right now you're just wastin time, and good rubber....
> 
> You will not get "the most" if you do not GIVE "the most"... The most being the greatest possible distance between the frame and the pouch..


Lee, the reason I don't shoot butterfly is I don't feel comfortable with it, I feel like I don't have control, if that makes sense.

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

treefork said:


> images (1).jpg Slingshot fun
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Can I take the third picture down as my slingshot poster girl ?

wll


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

wll said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> > images (1).jpg Slingshot fun
> ...


Absolutely . After all , that is the best slingshot fun !


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

wll said:


> Lee Silva said:
> 
> 
> > As close as you are to 500%, I think you will find the gain to be quite significant...... Kinda startin to wonder why, with your goals, you insist on playing in the middle of the road, and don't just go FULL BUTTERFLY?????
> ...


Totally understand


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

One can never calculate velocity of any slingshot, there are too many variables from temperature, draw length, band width, band material itself, ammo weight, ammo density, air density (what altitude you shoot at), air density (humidity) and I'm likely leaving out some factors. A chrony or Android device with chrony software is the only way you can know velocity, period...or an expensive slow motion vid cam and a stop watch.

I don't have nor want a chronograph. Why? It makes no difference to me at all at what speed exactly my SSs shoot. As long as the whole shooting experience adds up to having fun and relaxing, to me that's the whole point of sling shots...from making them to shooting them. I can measure my mental countenance by how I hit and miss. That clues me in to what sort of mental state Chuck has and what if any decisions to make that day.

If you know you get more velocity, guess at how much more and be happy. Or buy a chronograph or Android software (free version). If you want to delve into how much velocity you CAN get, and join the speed freak crowd, fine, that's cool, fun, do it. Buy you'll need a chronograph. they are not particularly expensive for a workable one good enough for gov'mt work.

chuck


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

I agree, the five to one stretch ratio is a pretty good guestimation of maxing velocity. Know however the more you stretch the bands the less life you get out of them. And each type of elastic has a different max velocity pull ratio...there are many kinds of elastic. If the bands are maxed out at draw, you've maxed out on velocity AT that draw WITH that elastic and its dimensions, using X ammo. It makes no diff to me about velocity..if I want more speed, using slots and stretch/insert attachments, quickly I shorten the bands without rebanding a pouch and stuff to get about five to one ratio, if I want a more moderate pull when my shoulder hurts a little from maxing out pull, I ease it down by lengening the bands, re insert and shoot, with longer bands...one benefit of the slotted fork instead of tieing. The 'science' of it all bores me and I don't get into it much...whatever I feel like banding up that day, I do, and be happy. Just me I guess. I keep about a dozen SSs banded up with various strengths of pull so whatever I want that day, or maybe shoot a few, that's what I do...no rules, no formulae, I just do it. Sometimes I flat out smack hades out of the target with double banded 12mm TBG and sometimes I just lob at the target with a single band. It's whim which dictates what, when and how much I shoot.

Remember, if you max out bands you shorten the life...you have to pay for max velocity. Is it worth it? I've found, dunno about the rest of yas, max velocity compromises accuracy somehow. When the ammo screams. to the target, I get more wild shots and misses than if I lightened up on pull. When I reloaded rifle ammo, yes I could max out velocity and shot groups widened, but if I eased up about 15% on powder, my .308 Rem. doubled holes bench rested at 200 yds.

I saw a poster in a poster shop years ago. It was a gorilla with it's hand under it's chin in a "The Thinker" (famous sculpture) pose as if pondering something. The caption at the bottom read, "Sometimes I sits 'n thinks, and sometimes I jus' sits." Sometimes I shoots and thinks and sometimes I jus' shoots.

I agree with the butterfly comment but like you, I don't dig butterfly or half BF either, I can't hit with either. Just me. And since I don't give a hang about velocity, go figure.

Treefork, I dig the slingshot swim suits as well. Ah yes. You know yer a slingshot geek if... hehe

Nuff said'

chuck


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Wii, you remind me of the guys who become car enthusiasts and try to get the most out of their car and so build a formula one dragster. They get the most out of what their car can do -- in a quarter-mile heat, that is. Otherwise the car is totally impractical. There's a lot more to slingshooting than top speed.

Here's something you might want to think about:

http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/avoiding-analysis-paralysis.html?cid=dn_article

Best intentions,

-- Bill


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Dayhiker said:


> Wii, you remind me of the guys who become car enthusiasts and try to get the most out of their car and so build a formula one dragster. They get the most out of what their car can do -- in a quarter-mile heat, that is. Otherwise the car is totally impractical. There's a lot more to slingshooting than top speed.
> 
> Here's something you might want to think about:
> 
> ...


LOL, LOL I under stand your thinking, but my sings are totally practical, they are easy to hold, reasonable easy to pull back (heaviest t tubing I will use is 3/16ID x 1/16W x 5/16OD) and fast enough for my needs.

If I was into speed only I would be using flats, but that is not the case. I want durability also, and that is very important. The speed is important within the ammo weight parameters I have chosen for a given tube size, a minimum of ` 175fps up to ~200fps+ for the weights for that tube size. As an example, the 5/16 OD tube is for 9/16" steel ball,1/2oz lead, 5/8" steel ball and 3/4oz lead ..... that is it... that is the only ammo weight parameters I will shoot with that tube size. The 3060 is for lighter stuff in the ~100 to 184gr range (there is always some cross over).

Right now I'm looking for a 86-100gr range tube set for marbles, jawbreakers and 7/16 steel.

And yes, I'm extremely regimented !

BTW: Read that article, and that is not me at all, just ask the guys and gals at at work, If anyone makes a decision fast and to the point it is me, I don't mess around, and I'm king of deadlines... and i could go on ;- )

wll


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Wii, regarding the article on analysis paralysis, I was thinking more broadly about slingshots and their purpose. (Incidentally, I have suffered from analysis paralysis even though I'm an extrovert, not an introvert.) I think I'm in line with Treefork and a few others when I assume everyone takes up a hobby basically for the fun of it. Doing is fun, thinking is hard.


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> Wii, you remind me of the guys who become car enthusiasts and try to get the most out of their car and so build a formula one dragster. They get the most out of what their car can do -- in a quarter-mile heat, that is. Otherwise the car is totally impractical. There's a lot more to slingshooting than top speed.
> 
> Here's something you might want to think about:
> http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/avoiding-analysis-paralysis.html?cid=dn_article
> ...


My brother in law did that with his Firebird. Took a nice, fast, very useable car and turned it into a fire-breathing drag racer that he hasn't driven in three years.


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

I found the various thoughts and outlooks interesting. I spent much of my life if labs doing R&D and the less interesting testing. I still have curiosity and find it exciting to see what's over the hill with a "what if". That included slingshots. I also was competitive enjoying marksmanship, sport cars, motorcycles. And I was good winning trophies and medals. I got so engrossed on what it took to win in the end I lost sight of the enjoyment of doing something that I enjoyed in the first place. So I can view the opinions from both sides. At the moment I am experimented out with slingshots, not regretting what I did, on the contrary, but now shooting for the fun of it trying to improve my accuracy.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

On a side note, I still watch your blow-pipe videos ... great job .... maybe I should get back into that again ;- )

wll


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