# PFS accuracy challenge



## SquirrelMaster

This is a forum wide challenge to those of you who prefer the PFS to other slingshots for accuracy. There are over 10,000 members here. No one who prefers the pfs has qualified for a ACCURACY badge. This was started on the topic pfs by ghost. Charles was wrongfully accused of implying that the pfs was not as accurate as other slingshots, because there are no qualifications with a PFS. I have seen the trick shots on youtube by pfs. Im sure there are many who would like to see the accuracy of a pfs qualify for accuracy on THE SLINGSHOT FORUM. This might stop further misunderstandings and arguments. What say you!? How long before the challenge is met, you that practice long hours with a pfs!? Is there no one in ten thousand!? :iono:


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## treefork

Sounds like a great idea!


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## M.J

I'm really interested in this!
I hope someone takes up the challenge.


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## M.J

Someone should offer up a prize to the first one to get 5 stars at 10m.


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## Tentacle Toast

M.J said:


> Someone should offer up a prize to the first one to get 5 stars at 10m.


I'm a good to excellent shot, depending on what I'm shooting, but I can't nail down this pfs for the life of me (they nail me though, I'll tell ya that). I generally don't give a rat's rump about the badges, but if someone could pull THAT off (Treefork, I'm looking at you) there's a $25 simple-shot gift certificate in it for them, on me....just PM me with a link to the vid


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## Charles

I may have to give this one a try myself!!! Gotta finish those basement renos first. There will be no outside shooting in this weather!

Cheers ..... Charles


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## SquirrelMaster

Oh happy day! Thats great Tentacle Toast! that makes me want to take up my own challenge. But then what would i look like?


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## Imperial

well it looks like pfs enthusiasts have till spring to practice. too cold for outdoor shooting. unless someone from australia or in the opposite hemisphere would like an attempt at it. i still say, no matter what you shoot, ttf, ott, pfs, starship, bareback- accuracy is still up to the person doing the shooting and how much time and practice one puts in to learn how to shoot that particular slingshot style. its just a matter of patience and practice.


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## treefork

Tentacle Toast . You are the man. You are generous! I figure this would be a good opportunity for the hard core PFS guys. There aren't enough hours in a week to master every thing. I do want to master the PFS but that one is going to have to wait. If no one steps up to claim this, I will. This should be pretty easy for any of our PFS shooters. I really would like to see some cool PFS videos. Uncut/unedited !


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## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> Tentacle Toast . You are the man. You are generous! I figure this would be a good opportunity for the hard core PFS guys. There aren't enough hours in a week to master every thing. I do want to master the PFS but that one is going to have to wait. If no one steps up to claim this, I will. This should be pretty easy for any of our PFS shooters. I really would like to see some cool PFS videos. Uncut/unedited !


Well it's open to everyone for sure, I just have a feeling that you'll be the one to beat everyone to the punch  I'll do one better, & give it to the first three to pull it off...just to help keep the inspiration flowing!

Remember that slingshot related injury thread? It's going to expand 3 fold...LoL


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## treefork

Tentacle Toast said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tentacle Toast . You are the man. You are generous! I figure this would be a good opportunity for the hard core PFS guys. There aren't enough hours in a week to master every thing. I do want to master the PFS but that one is going to have to wait. If no one steps up to claim this, I will. This should be pretty easy for any of our PFS shooters. I really would like to see some cool PFS videos. Uncut/unedited !
> 
> 
> 
> Well it's open to everyone for sure, I just have a feeling that you'll be the one to beat everyone to the punch  I'll do one better, & give it to the first three to pull it off...just to help keep the inspiration flowing!
> 
> Remember that slingshot related injury thread? It's going to expand 3 fold...LoL
Click to expand...

WOW!!!


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## SquirrelMaster

treefork said:


> Tentacle Toast said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tentacle Toast . You are the man. You are generous! I figure this would be a good opportunity for the hard core PFS guys. There aren't enough hours in a week to master every thing. I do want to master the PFS but that one is going to have to wait. If no one steps up to claim this, I will. This should be pretty easy for any of our PFS shooters. I really would like to see some cool PFS videos. Uncut/unedited !
> 
> 
> 
> Well it's open to everyone for sure, I just have a feeling that you'll be the one to beat everyone to the punch  I'll do one better, & give it to the first three to pull it off...just to help keep the inspiration flowing!
> 
> Remember that slingshot related injury thread? It's going to expand 3 fold...LoL
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> WOW!!!
Click to expand...

No way!  Wheres Darrell at? Aint he the Man? The PFS CHAMP!?


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## Imperial

treefork said:


> Uncut/unedited !


if i were a porn actor/star, that would be my motto ( . . . hmm, i feel a meme coming on )


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## Pawpawsailor

To make for encouraging the PFS Challenge I will offer as a prize one of my Paper Micarta SWOPFS's to the first person to receive a badge in any category with a PFS.


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## Imperial

Tentacle Toast said:


> Remember that slingshot related injury thread? It's going to expand 3 fold...LoL


a thread with pictures of pfs injuries would be awesome ! the morgue of thumb hits by a pfs.


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## SquirrelMaster

Pawpawsailor said:


> To make for encouraging the PFS Challenge I will offer as a prize one of my Paper Micarta SWOPFS's to the first person to receive a badge in any category with a PFS.


Thats too cool. You and TT are very generous indeed.


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## Bill Hays

Hold on... first define a PFS...

How about any flat slingshot that's 3" X 4" or smaller and only shoots OTT?

If that's the case I'll try to set aside a block of time tomorrow... $25 for 5 minutes work... it's on baby!


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## Pawpawsailor

Bill Hays said:


> Hold on... first define a PFS...
> How about any flat slingshot that's 3" X 4" or smaller and only shoots OTT?
> If that's the case I'll try to set aside a block of time tomorrow... $25 for 5 minutes work... it's on baby!


That would rule out the OPFS at 4 1/16" wouldn't it? That's what a lot of the PFS shooters shoot. Also, all of Danny Kim's shooters. Doesn't seem fair!


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## Arturito

Hello SSF'ers, as you know I left the forum for a while, if I am allowed I would like to post my entry to encourage other PFS's enthusiasts as I am. if I run with the luck to be the first I will resign Perry's and money prize for the second winner, also I am not pursuing any badge.

The question on what a PFS is, for me is a frame that requires the ammo fly over the fork tips, like Perry's PFS or this regardless other frame dimensions









cheers


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## rockslinger

Arturito said:


> Hello SSF'ers, as you know I left the forum for a while, if I am allowed I would like to post my entry to encourage other PFS's enthusiasts as I am. if I run with the luck to be the first I will resign Perry's and money prize for the second winner, also I am not pursuing any badge.
> 
> The question on what a PFS is, for me is a frame that requires the ammo fly over the fork tips, like Perry's PFS or this regardless other frame dimensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pfsp.jpg
> 
> cheers


Good to hear from you Art!


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## Bill Hays

Hey Arturo...

Good to see you again Man!

Okay, so a PFS is any slingshot that shoots OTT and is smaller than say, 3" X 4.5"?

If that's it... you guys better jump on this challenge pretty quick, 'cause I'll be owning a "Paper Micarta SWOPFS" real soon!

I've got an aluminum "BoyShot" that fits those dimensions and it'll enjoy knocking down a simple challenge like this one.


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## Pawpawsailor

I hope you like it Bill.


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## SquirrelMaster

To be more specific, it would have to be the original pickle fork shooter design or the boo shooter shot in OTT. I count the boo shooter because charles already said he used it for the speed freaks club.


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## SquirrelMaster

The challenge was directed at those who prefer the pfs for accuracy. BUT, i guess that you dont have to prefer it, just use a pickle fork shooter to enter an accuracy competition and qualify. So you would have to have a pfs, or in leniency the boo shooter since it has already been used as an example by Charles. This way no one can state that the pickle fork shooter has not been used to qualify for accuracy on this forum, and therefore no one can assume it a derogatory statement.


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## SquirrelMaster

Arturito said:


> Hello SSF'ers, as you know I left the forum for a while, if I am allowed I would like to post my entry to encourage other PFS's enthusiasts as I am. if I run with the luck to be the first I will resign Perry's and money prize for the second winner, also I am not pursuing any badge.
> 
> The question on what a PFS is, for me is a frame that requires the ammo fly over the fork tips, like Perry's PFS or this regardless other frame dimensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pfsp.jpg
> 
> cheers


Please post your entry arturo. Thats cool that you resign on the the first prize, second place now gets $50 gift card and a pfs! But sir, The challenge is to participate in the accuracy competition for a badge so NO ONE can say it has not been done on this forum. I hope this does not prevent you from entering the competition for a badge. I really would like to see you enter and represent THE PFS, and recieve first place. You would be the very first one here on this forum.


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## Arturito

Hello Mr Hayes, to my knowledge maximum external fork width should be 2 1/4" or less and maximum fork gap width should be 3/4" or less, maximum gap depth should be 3/4" or less, the shape and length for the handle or body in my opinion is less relevant could vary from 3.5" to 4.5". I believe this standard is widely accepted as PFS's, sightly greater dimensions are defined as "transitionals" between PFS and full frames ... the boo shooters seems to meet this specifications ...

cheers


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## SquirrelMaster

Arturito said:


> Hello Mr Hayes, to my knowledge maximum external fork width should be 2 1/4" or less and maximum fork gap width should be 3/4" or less, maximum gap depth should be 3/4" or less, the shape and length for the handle or body in my opinion is less relevant could vary from 3.5" to 4.5". I believe this standard is widely accepted as PFS's, sightly greater dimensions are defined as "transitionals" between PFS and full frames ... the boo shooters seems to meet this specifications ...
> 
> cheers


Ok, its settled. No transitionals. You must use the pfs in its purest form or according to the dimensions stated above by one who prefers the PFS for accuracy.


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## ZorroSlinger

Also, additional test if PFS - DO NOT TURN the pouch (loaded with 5/8" marble), then release, and if you GET a FORK HIT, that qualifies as PFS! :lol: ... LOL . PFS technique is OTT & turning pouch to clear & not hit forks and avoid bruising your hand!  PFS can be shot sideways but for me, I get occasional fork hits doing PFS gangsta (requires more focus that you're turning/tweaking pouch)


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## SquirrelMaster

ZorroSlinger said:


> Also, additional test if PFS - DO NOT TURN the pouch (loaded with 5/8" marble), then release, and if you GET a FORK HIT, that qualifies as PFS! :lol: ... LOL . *PFS technique is OTT & turning pouch to clear & not hit forks* and avoid bruising your hand!  PFS can be shot sideways but for me, I get occasional fork hits doing PFS gangsta (requires more focus that you're turning/tweaking pouch)


agreed! 1) it has to be a PFS, 2) It must be shot OTT, and 3) you must turn the pouch.


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## Imperial

waiting for the airplane to drop the " trying to agree on rules and standards " [email protected]@k bomb in this thread . . .


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## Charles

Arturito said:


> Hello SSF'ers, as you know I left the forum for a while, if I am allowed I would like to post my entry to encourage other PFS's enthusiasts as I am. if I run with the luck to be the first I will resign Perry's and money prize for the second winner, also I am not pursuing any badge.
> 
> The question on what a PFS is, for me is a frame that requires the ammo fly over the fork tips, like Perry's PFS or this regardless other frame dimensions
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> pfsp.jpg
> 
> cheers


Hey Aturito!!! Welcome back. :wave: I hope you have been keeping well.

By all means, do give it a go. I agree that the designation of a pfs should require that any gap between the forks must be so narrow that the ammo cannot pass between the fork tips. Other than that, I do not think the other dimensions matter very much.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Arturito

hello Charles, it's to late here I will go to sleep, let's continue with this tomorrow

cheers


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## Bill Hays

Awww come on...

How about the real original pickle fork design then?

The top two in the picture are Dgui's original design which morphed to the one in the bottom right picture and then later into a slightly modified version of the 4th, which he then called the "opfs" later on.










And the one I WANT to use is the BoyShot below... you'll notice the dimensions aren't that far off... it's the same length, plus the fork gap is the same as the fork tip width just like with the real original pfs'.... the real original PFS was about 2.5" X 4.25 and the BoyShot is 3" X 4.25".... Jury, yay or nay?


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## Hrawk

I say it should be allowed.

The term PFS has become ambiguous and is now applied to pretty much any 'small' shooter.

I'm reading a lot of definitions in this thread which I have never heard before. The original got its name after a forum member commented that Darrel's new shooter resembled a 'pickle fork' and the name stuck. So by definition and history, wouldn't any slingshot remotely resembling a 'pickle fork' be called a PFS ?


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## SquirrelMaster

Not all small slingshots are called PFS. All though it has BECOME a term, the NAME stuck to a particular design. For instance, Mr. Hays, you want to use a boyshot to answer the PFS accuracy challenge. But the slingshots name is Boyshot, not PFS. Hrawk and Mr. Hays, i hope you understand that out of the double meaning the challenge is not to the term pfs.


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## SquirrelMaster

1)It must be the PFS DESIGN 2)Shot in OTT w/ pouch turned 3)Must compete, and qualify for accuracy badge

sm


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## Hrawk

Fair enough, your call.

Probably a good idea then that you post a link to the exact design and measurements of the PFS so there is no confusion as to what is allowed.

Also consider making it a condition of entry that people clearly show and measure the slingshot they use on video. Single take, no breaks and that sort of thing.


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## SquirrelMaster

to simplify it i wont define the measurements
























these are labeled pickle fork shooters or original pickle fork shooter


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## SquirrelMaster

Mr. Hays gave four examples on his last post also.


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## SquirrelMaster

Including a gift card for $25, you get a sweet pfs like this one for a prize! Except If Arturo Qualifies first, he said he pass. But he might change his mind.


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## AZ Stinger

Your not getting that one, it`s mine haha


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## Pawpawsailor

The one that I'm donating will be in solid black paper micarta in the same shape as the photo posted.


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## SmilingFury

So is this for a 5/5 or any badge counts?


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## Tentacle Toast

SmilingFury said:


> So is this for a 5/5 or any badge counts?





M.J said:


> Someone should offer up a prize to the first one to get 5 stars at 10m.


...I thought that in particular is worth the challenge...


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## Arturito

In my opinion Charles gave the most important definition for a PFS, the fork gap leaves no room for ammo and it's only purpose is to allow rubber attachment and that means (as ZorrroSlinger pointed) PFS shooting technique, Mr Hayes BoyShot is a "transitional" ...

cheers


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## Pawpawsailor

SquirrelMaster said:


> The challenge was directed at those who prefer the pfs for accuracy. BUT, i guess that you dont have to prefer it, just use a pickle fork shooter to enter an accuracy competition and qualify. So you would have to have a pfs, or in leniency the boo shooter since it has already been used as an example by Charles. This way no one can state that the pickle fork shooter has not been used to qualify for accuracy on this forum, and therefore no one can assume it a derogatory statement.


It would be nice if this is won by a real PFS afficionado, but the real challenge is that the PFS is a capable implement. Even if the winner despises the PFS, the PFS wins.


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## Arturito

Pawpawsailor said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> The challenge was directed at those who prefer the pfs for accuracy. BUT, i guess that you dont have to prefer it, just use a pickle fork shooter to enter an accuracy competition and qualify. So you would have to have a pfs, or in leniency the boo shooter since it has already been used as an example by Charles. This way no one can state that the pickle fork shooter has not been used to qualify for accuracy on this forum, and therefore no one can assume it a derogatory statement.
> 
> 
> 
> It would be nice if this is won by a real PFS afficionado, but the real challenge is that the PFS is a capable implement. Even if the winner despises the PFS, the PFS wins.
Click to expand...

very true Perry ...


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## Arturito

SquirrelMaster said:


> 1)It must be the PFS DESIGN 2)Shot in OTT w/ pouch turned 3)Must compete, and qualify for accuracy badge
> 
> sm


I think to win the prize it must be set a starting date to give other attendants not so used with the PFS the chance to do a warmup training ...

cheers


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## Charles

NOTE:

I hope we are all agreed that the gap between the fork tips must be, as Arturo put it so well " the fork gap leaves no room for ammo and it's only purpose is to allow rubber attachment".

And as Arturo has pointed out previously, the target size is a circle, 2 1/8 inches = 54 mm in diameter.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/20427-competition-slingshot-qualification-badge/?p=326003

Also, the distance is 10 meters and must be verified on camera. Full details are available here:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/20427-competition-slingshot-qualification-badge/

Please do no skimp on verifying target size, distance, and other aspects. We do not need any more controversy on this subject.

Best of luck to everyone!!! Hopefully this challenge will encourage everyone to improve their shooting skills.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Pawpawsailor

I was asked to post this photo for clarification. This an example of an OPFS made by PFShooter.


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## Bill Hays

Okay, so the fork gap needs to be a max of 1/2", and the whole thing is a max of 2.5" wide then?

Unlimited length on the grip (within reason) and the target is 2.125" round shot from 33 feet... 5 for 5 ends the controversy... Right?

Well if that's the way it is... I can't use my MicroRanger or my BoyShot 

And if I can't have what I want, I won't participate then!

BTW, I'm just messing with you guys... I'm very aware of what a PFS is and how they're supposed to look. I've made something on the order of about 100 - 150 of the things.... True I don't personally like the design, but I'm not the one ordering them.

Here's the template most ask for, provided by Chuck in the free templates section:


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## Charles

Pawpawsailor said:


> I was asked to post this photo for clarification. This an example of an OPFS made by PFShooter.


Please note that "OPFS" is just a name ... NOT a description. The original pickle fork shooter is here:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/1601-band-new/?p=13464

The fork gap is 7/8 of an inch, so it does not qualify for this contest.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Pawpawsailor

Charles said:


> Pawpawsailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was asked to post this photo for clarification. This an example of an OPFS made by PFShooter.
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that "OPFS" is just a name ... NOT a description. The original pickle fork shooter is here:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/1601-band-new/?p=13464
> 
> The fork gap is 7/8 of an inch, so it does not qualify for this contest.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
Click to expand...

I think we're on the same page Charles. The photo I posted for a friend is the same as the drawing posted by Bill. No one I know in the PFS community thinks of the shooter in the post you just referenced. We're in agreement also that "OPFS" is just a name, sort of like we know that Original Coca Cola was a marketing ploy and was not in fact the REAL original coke.


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## Charles

Pawpawsailor said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pawpawsailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was asked to post this photo for clarification. This an example of an OPFS made by PFShooter.
> 
> 
> 
> Please note that "OPFS" is just a name ... NOT a description. The original pickle fork shooter is here:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/1601-band-new/?p=13464
> 
> The fork gap is 7/8 of an inch, so it does not qualify for this contest.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think we're on the same page Charles. The photo I posted for a friend is the same as the drawing posted by Bill. No one I know in the PFS community thinks of the shooter in the post you just referenced. We're in agreement also that "OPFS" is just a name, sort of like we know that Original Coca Cola was a marketing ploy and was not in fact the REAL original coke.
Click to expand...

Yep, Yep, Yep!!! All agreed.

Cheers ... Charles


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## Charles

I do have one question. I have become quite fond of pinky holes on my slingshots. For this contest, I propose to make a shooter with the standard pfs fork style, but with a pinky hole. Does anyone have any objections to that????

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Tentacle Toast

Just purchased 3, $25 e-gift cards from Simple-Shot...they're lonely & looking for new homes. Best of luck, everyone!


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## Tentacle Toast

Just to add my half-pence here; I really don't give a rat's rump about badges...I'll stand toe-to-toe with MOST people with MOST projectiles. The only reason I'm into this with this level of caring is because I can't, FOR THE LIFE OF ME, master these f***in' slings, & I think anybody who can earn that badge with one of these deserves props on the highest order. The back of my hand has developed a Pavlovian response to just LOOKING at these things!


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## Arturito

Charles said:


> I do have one question. I have become quite fond of pinky holes on my slingshots. For this contest, I propose to make a shooter with the standard pfs fork style, but with a pinky hole. Does anyone have any objections to that????
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


no objections here, what's below the fork gap don't change it's nature ...

cheers


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## Pawpawsailor

Charles said:


> I do have one question. I have become quite fond of pinky holes on my slingshots. For this contest, I propose to make a shooter with the standard pfs fork style, but with a pinky hole. Does anyone have any objections to that????
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


I have no objection, often use them when making your Alturus.


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## AZ Stinger

Due to all the posts on this thread I would like someone to clarify the rules here, is the winner the first guy to qualify for a badge or do you now have to get 5 out of 5


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## treefork

I understood it was 5/5.


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## Tentacle Toast

AZ Stinger said:


> Due to all the posts on this thread I would like someone to clarify the rules here, is the winner the first guy to qualify for a badge or do you now have to get 5 out of 5


I'll let the "pros" handle this one, but on my end, the first three to accomplish whatever is ultimately decided upon gets a certificate.


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## treefork

Tentacle Toast said:


> M.J said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone should offer up a prize to the first one to get 5 stars at 10m.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a good to excellent shot, depending on what I'm shooting, but I can't nail down this pfs for the life of me (they nail me though, I'll tell ya that). I generally don't give a rat's rump about the badges, but if someone could pull THAT off (Treefork, I'm looking at you) there's a $25 simple-shot gift certificate in it for them, on me....just PM me with a link to the vid
Click to expand...

Here it is


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## Arturito

AZ Stinger said:


> Due to all the posts on this thread I would like someone to clarify the rules here, is the winner the first guy to qualify for a badge or do you now have to get 5 out of 5


I believe that the "BADGE" rules stay the same, a minimum of 3 inside, now to win the prize I understand that is needed 5/5 ...

cheers


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## treefork

I did a couple yesterday but couldn't upload to youtube. Logged on today an noticed and noticed new rules so I don't know if my Pfs fits the new rules. I thought it was on.


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## treefork

Shouldn't the guy putting up the bulk of the prize have a say it what he is awarding a prize to? Just saying. TT stepped up and offered $75 in gift certificates. The original agreement was as qouted above. 5/5 at 33 feet . I wouldn't offer a prize for 3/5. Come on.


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## SquirrelMaster

As the challenger, I see the obvious complications with defining measurements. So, i have not defined it for this purpose. The person who prefers The PFS for accuracy has his preferrences. You can not say it is just a name, for instance if you call it excaliber instead of pfs, it has become something else. and the TERM pfs has been applied. THE PFS or OPFS or SWOPFS is still a pfs and still referred to and named or called pfs. The PFS has become many things. This is mostly to keep this challenge simple.


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## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> I understood it was 5/5.


That's what I took it as too. The fun just seems to be getting sapped away with all the "clarifications". I'm good on my word though; the first three to earn whatever is decided upon gets a certificate.

...& all this is another reason why I'm turned off by the whole badge thing. I used to be heavy into Kung Fu; my Sifu wouldn't even let you THINK about getting your white belt until you'd been whipped into shape for it. He never competed until he started getting more popular, then there was challenge after challenge. We did a few tournaments in Rochester, but we'd have to quit our bout-fighting & real sparring to prep for tournament rules (like that point sparring nonsense, for example..). It wasn't worth it, so he decided to open up the "dojo" for a fight night the second Tuesday of every month. The place would be HOPPING! Schools from all over would show up, but it didn't last long, because 99% of the other schools would start everyone off with a white belt as soon as their first check cleared, & then after that their main focus in training was to decorate their halls with trophies, instead of turning out true fighters. They'd show up with chins high, & uniforms pressed & white, & leave with their, uh, "black belts" bloodied, black-eyed, & fat lipped by our medal-less yellow belts..sorry for the rant, it's just sometimes looking at this stuff reminds me of that.


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## treefork

If you want to change the original agreement then you put up the prize for 3/5. The man agreed on 5/5. READ THE THREAD! 3/5 is a joke.


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## treefork

When Bill Hays has a contest and puts up the prize he makes the rules. If you want to make rules have your own contest and put up the prize. 3/5 does not deserve a $25 gift.


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## Tentacle Toast

I said my piece, whatever is agreed upon by those participating; I cause enough trouble here. Best of luck to all!


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## SquirrelMaster

treefork said:


> I did a couple yesterday but couldn't upload to youtube. Logged on today an noticed and noticed new rules so I don't know if my Pfs fits the new rules. I thought it was on.





treefork said:


> Shouldn't the guy putting up the bulk of the prize have a say it what he is awarding a prize to? Just saying. TT stepped up and offered $75 in gift certificates. The original agreement was as qouted above. 5/5 at 33 feet . I wouldn't offer a prize for 3/5. Come on.


Im sure your PFS fits the rules, this is why i did not define measurements. And you are right TT offered his prize to the first to get 5/5 shots. The challenge is for the purpose of Someone, anyone, to qualify for a accuracy badge with a pfs.


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## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> When Bill Hays has a contest and puts up the prize he makes the rules. If you want to make rules have your own contest and put up the prize. 3/5 does not deserve a $25 gift.


I don't compete, so I'm in no position to set up competitions. The first page of this thread is what I had envisioned for this though...I believe it was MJ that had the original idea of there being a prize for 5/5 @10M; I concurred..


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## Tentacle Toast

Tentacle Toast said:


> M.J said:
> 
> 
> 
> Someone should offer up a prize to the first one to get 5 stars at 10m.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a good to excellent shot, depending on what I'm shooting, but I can't nail down this pfs for the life of me (they nail me though, I'll tell ya that). I generally don't give a rat's rump about the badges, but if someone could pull THAT off (Treefork, I'm looking at you) there's a $25 simple-shot gift certificate in it for them, on me....just PM me with a link to the vid
Click to expand...

...this...


----------



## treefork

Your the one that stepped up trying to do a nice thing. As far as I'm concerned you should have all the say. The agreement was 5/5 using a Pfs following the qualifier rules. Now everyone with no stake wants it 3/5 ect.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

My prize offer stands for the first person to win any badge with a PFS. I will stand with the definitions currently agreed upon within this thread. I dont care which badge you go for. If you meet the requirements for any badge... First one to do so gets the Paper Micarta SWOPFS.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

I think Arturo passed on the prize because he understood the the spirit of this. Its not about winning the prize to that Man. The PFS has been challenged! Its seems only One who prefers the PFS for accuracy understands.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Pawpawsailor said:


> My prize offer stands for the first person to win any badge with a PFS. I will stand with the definitions currently agreed upon within this thread. I dont care which badge you go for. If you meet the requirements for any badge... First one to do so gets the Paper Micarta SWOPFS.


Boom! Jessie solved...thanks, Pawpawsailor! Yours is for any badge, mine is for 5/[email protected] this fair??? I really wasn't trying to do anything but have fun here; I step in enough mud in off-topic...


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Its seems hard enough to get a PFS to be used to enter SSFcompetitions. The prize seems to be an incentive, just to get them in the door.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Tentacle Toast said:


> Pawpawsailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> My prize offer stands for the first person to win any badge with a PFS. I will stand with the definitions currently agreed upon within this thread. I dont care which badge you go for. If you meet the requirements for any badge... First one to do so gets the Paper Micarta SWOPFS.
> 
> 
> 
> Boom! Jessie solved...thanks, Pawpawsailor! Yours is for any badge, mine is for 5/[email protected] this fair??? I really wasn't trying to do anything but have fun here; I step in enough mud in off-topic...
Click to expand...

That is fair in my eyes. The SWOPFS for anyone to qualify for accuracy, The gift cards for 5/5 shots at 33ft or 10m. as the donators wish.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Above all, to all who are following this. Have fun.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

We're all good gents!


----------



## stej

Stop talking, start shooting!


----------



## SmilingFury

I really didn't mean to start any trouble. I just wanted to be sure of the rules. Sorry. I agree that it should be 5/5. 
Perry, you are very generous making it any badge. I'll have to wait on this one anyway. I brought back a 10m tape from NY and I have no clear line in my apartment without ducking under closet shelves. 
GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE CHALLENGERS!!!


----------



## AZ Stinger

Just wanted to wish the best of luck to all that enter...


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Ok good, so again, in hopes to be clear.

There has been no PFS qualifications for accuracy in SSF competitions. I CHALLENGE ANY "PFS PRACTITIONER" THAT SHOOTS A PFS OTT WITH POUCH TURNED TO QUALIFY FOR A ACCURACY BADGE ON THE SSF. Pawpawsailor has generously donated a paper micarta SWOPFS for the first to qualify for a badge. Tentacle Toast has also generously donated 3 gift cards for $25 to the first three to recieve perfect scores of 5/5 shots at 10m. i hope this may serve as incentive to those who prefer or like shooting the PFS to answer. Good luck.

SM


----------



## treefork

I don't want any prize or anything. I did these last night just in the spirit of fun and trying something new. I am not at home so I can't post dimensions of what I used. I used 5/8 in marbles with tex tubes and rayshot pouch. The lighting wasn't great. I did turn and tweak shooting OTT. PFS are different and very fun. Good luck and have fun!


----------



## AZ Stinger

Nice shootin Treefork.....


----------



## Pawpawsailor

Are you in the attic?


----------



## treefork

Pawpawsailor said:


> Are you in the attic?


Yes. The attic space of a small old Cape Cod style home. Best feature of the house is I have 33 feet.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

treefork said:


> Pawpawsailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are you in the attic?
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. The attic space of a small old Cape Cod style home. Best feature of the house is I have 33 feet.
Click to expand...

You need insulation... Just joking! Great shooting.


----------



## Charles

Good shooting TF.

I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.

First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.

Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.

As always, your shooting is superb.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Charles said:


> Good shooting TF.
> 
> I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.
> 
> First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.
> 
> Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.
> 
> As always, your shooting is superb.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


Charles you seem to have a preference for you pickle fork shooter to have .5in between the fork tips. He seems to prefer something different. He did call it a PFS And its his PFS not yours. No one has said he was wrong either. This is a perfect reason why i did not define measurements or dimensions for the PFS. I am just trying to keep the peace. i think if he would have entered it into ss qualification badge comp in the competition forum, he would have got the badge the money and a SWOPFS.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

LightGeoDuck would have to be the judge of that tho..


----------



## Charles

SquirrelMaster said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good shooting TF.
> 
> I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.
> 
> First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.
> 
> Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.
> 
> As always, your shooting is superb.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> 
> 
> Charles you seem to have a preference for you pickle fork shooter to have .5in between the fork tips. He seems to prefer something different. He did call it a PFS And its his PFS not yours. No one has said he was wrong either. This is a perfect reason why i did not define measurements or dimensions for the PFS. I am just trying to keep the peace. i think if he would have entered it into ss qualification badge comp in the competition forum, he would have got the badge the money and a SWOPFS.
Click to expand...

So if I call my mutant ninja slingshot a pfs, will that qualify??? Why not just use a Hathcock Sniper and call it a PFS? Without some sort of limitations, this whole thing becomes rather pointless.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Pawpawsailor

SquirrelMaster said:


> Ok good, so again, in hopes to be clear.
> There has been no PFS qualifications for accuracy in SSF competitions. I CHALLENGE ANY "PFS PRACTITIONER" THAT SHOOTS A PFS OTT WITH POUCH TURNED TO QUALIFY FOR A ACCURACY BADGE ON THE SSF. Pawpawsailor has generously donated a paper micarta SWOPFS for the first to qualify for a badge. Tentacle Toast has also generously donated 3 gift cards for $25 to the first three to recieve perfect scores of 5/5 shots at 10m. i hope this may serve as incentive to those who prefer or like shooting the PFS to answer. Good luck.
> 
> SM


Sorry i responded to the wrong thing...


----------



## Bill Hays

Here's my video of shooting the BoyShot... oh urmmmm I mean Pickle Fork Sized (PFS) slingshot... 10 meters and getting 5 for 5... first try none-the-less






So now an _actual_ pfs shooter needs to step up!


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Charles said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good shooting TF.
> 
> I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.
> 
> First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.
> 
> Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.
> 
> As always, your shooting is superb.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> 
> 
> Charles you seem to have a preference for you pickle fork shooter to have .5in between the fork tips. He seems to prefer something different. He did call it a PFS And its his PFS not yours. No one has said he was wrong either. This is a perfect reason why i did not define measurements or dimensions for the PFS. I am just trying to keep the peace. i think if he would have entered it into ss qualification badge comp in the competition forum, he would have got the badge the money and a SWOPFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So if I call my mutant ninja slingshot a pfs, will that qualify??? Why not just use a Hathcock Sniper and call it a PFS? Without some sort of limitations, this whole thing becomes rather pointless.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
Click to expand...

Im sorry sir, but this is the PFS accuracy challenge. not the mutant ninja challenge. or the hathcock sniper challenge. or the wrench challenge. The mutant ninja has been givin the name mutant ninja, thats why you have been calling it that. Likewise with the PFS, it has been givin that name, so it is called The Pickle Fork Shooter. Mr.Hays has posted a template of the PFS that YOU have uploaded. Please be the first to qualify for a badge. I support you.


----------



## treefork

Charles said:


> Good shooting TF.
> 
> I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.
> 
> First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.
> 
> Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.
> 
> As always, your shooting is superb.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


I did those videos before the size was discussed the next day. Just measured my PFS. It is one inch between the forks and 43/4 inch long. I still have to twist and tweak for the shot to clear. I also held it vertical. I already put the effort in so I posted the videos. I am not a PFS shooter and have very little experience with them. I'm happy I was able to do what i did. Maybe now I will shoot them more.


----------



## ZorroSlinger

Charles said:


> I do have one question. I have become quite fond of pinky holes on my slingshots. For this contest, I propose to make a shooter with the standard pfs fork style, but with a pinky hole. Does anyone have any objections to that????
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


I would think, pinky grip support hole would be okay? Small frames can be difficult to hold or stabilize if somewhat strong bands & long draw. I made a tester PFS Ergo-aimer style with lanyard (instead of pinky hole). I only have 1/8 inch fork gap! It's basically a flat-top PFS.

Only IMO, I would also be a stickler or picky that fork gap should be minimal and ammo would have less chance of going through. Adds more excitement & danger too ... seeing If one gets fork hits!


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Allow me to elaborate. the type of pickle fork shooter im challenging IS a Pickle Fork Shooter. I could also say the type of small slingshot...or the type of slingshot im challenging is a PFS.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

Bill Hays said:


> Here's my video of shooting the BoyShot... oh urmmmm I mean Pickle Fork Sized (PFS) slingshot... 10 meters and getting 5 for 5... first try none-the-less
> 
> So now an actual pfs shooter needs to step up!


Great shooting Bill!


----------



## Charles

SquirrelMaster said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good shooting TF.
> 
> I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.
> 
> First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.
> 
> Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.
> 
> As always, your shooting is superb.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> 
> 
> Charles you seem to have a preference for you pickle fork shooter to have .5in between the fork tips. He seems to prefer something different. He did call it a PFS And its his PFS not yours. No one has said he was wrong either. This is a perfect reason why i did not define measurements or dimensions for the PFS. I am just trying to keep the peace. i think if he would have entered it into ss qualification badge comp in the competition forum, he would have got the badge the money and a SWOPFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So if I call my mutant ninja slingshot a pfs, will that qualify??? Why not just use a Hathcock Sniper and call it a PFS? Without some sort of limitations, this whole thing becomes rather pointless.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im sorry sir, but this is the PFS accuracy challenge. not the mutant ninja challenge. or the hathcock sniper challenge. or the wrench challenge. The mutant ninja has been givin the name mutant ninja, thats why you have been calling it that. Likewise with the PFS, it has been givin that name, so it is called The Pickle Fork Shooter. Mr.Hays has posted a template of the PFS that YOU have uploaded. Please be the first to qualify for a badge. I support you.
Click to expand...

The template was not uploaded by me. It was uploaded by a member mxred91, who signed his name "Chuck S." The design was taken from an original fork made by Dgui. The design was sent to Dgui, and he asked that it be posted. Details are here:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/6761-dguis-pickle-fork-shooter-pfs/?hl=%2Bpickle+%2Bchuck

I have played no part in the pfs design. The requirement that the fork gap be so narrow that the ammo will not pass through seemed to be previously agreed to by those who favor the pfs. That is the whole point of the "twist and tweak" technique of shooting.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Arturito

Excellent TreeFork ! not being used with the turn and tweak/bend wow !

cheers


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Charles said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> Good shooting TF.
> 
> I do not mean to jump on you, but I hope you do not mind if I use your video as an example. I have two concerns.
> 
> First: Your slingshot is an example of a low fork slingshot, but not a pickle fork shooter as outlined here. The gap between your fork tips is considerably greater than .5 inches.
> 
> Second: Your target circle appears to have been drawn around the outside of the soda can. That is too large. The specification is that the circle is to be drawn around the rolled rim of the top of the soda can ... which is 2.125 inches ... that's 2 1/8 inches.
> 
> As always, your shooting is superb.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> 
> 
> Charles you seem to have a preference for you pickle fork shooter to have .5in between the fork tips. He seems to prefer something different. He did call it a PFS And its his PFS not yours. No one has said he was wrong either. This is a perfect reason why i did not define measurements or dimensions for the PFS. I am just trying to keep the peace. i think if he would have entered it into ss qualification badge comp in the competition forum, he would have got the badge the money and a SWOPFS.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> So if I call my mutant ninja slingshot a pfs, will that qualify??? Why not just use a Hathcock Sniper and call it a PFS? Without some sort of limitations, this whole thing becomes rather pointless.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Im sorry sir, but this is the PFS accuracy challenge. not the mutant ninja challenge. or the hathcock sniper challenge. or the wrench challenge. The mutant ninja has been givin the name mutant ninja, thats why you have been calling it that. Likewise with the PFS, it has been givin that name, so it is called The Pickle Fork Shooter. Mr.Hays has posted a template of the PFS that YOU have uploaded. Please be the first to qualify for a badge. I support you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> The template was not uploaded by me. It was uploaded by a member mxred91, who signed his name "Chuck S." The design was taken from an original fork made by Dgui. The design was sent to Dgui, and he asked that it be posted. Details are here:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/6761-dguis-pickle-fork-shooter-pfs/?hl=%2Bpickle+%2Bchuck
> 
> I have played no part in the pfs design. The requirement that the fork gap be so narrow that the ammo will not pass through seemed to be previously agreed to by those who favor the pfs. That is the whole point of the "twist and tweak" technique of shooting.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
Click to expand...

Please forgive me, i made a mistake on the template, i know others named charles that i refer to as chuck . The reason the fork gap requirement was changed was to respect everyones preferences. If someone was to upscale the PFS design, the fork gap would increase. But it would still be a PFS, Maybe Big Pickle Fork Shooter(BPFS) but it would still be The PFS. Then the whole point of "twist and tweak" shooting maybe gone, for you, but you are one person. Others can still prefer to use that method regardless of fork gap.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Arturito said:


> Excellent TreeFork ! not being used with the turn and tweak/bend wow !
> 
> cheers


TreeFork, i guess you would have to have the camera closer to you to show the twist of the pouch.


----------



## Mister Magpie

Bill Hays said:


> Here's my video of shooting the BoyShot... oh urmmmm I mean Pickle Fork Sized (PFS) slingshot... 10 meters and getting 5 for 5... first try none-the-less
> 
> So now an actual pfs shooter needs to step up!


Wow, great shooting!

Darren


----------



## SquirrelMaster

To Charles. If you will review your Boo shooter tutorial, you refer to the two on the left as PFS. You may use those. The other two you refered to as boo shooters, not PFS. It would be a shame for you not to participate because you do not understand.

SM


----------



## Hrawk

I just made this and* I called it a PFS*.

Will this be ok to use in the comp ?


----------



## Mister Magpie

Hrawk said:


> I just made this and* I called it a PFS*.
> 
> Will this be ok to use in the comp ?


As long as the ammo is bigger than the fork gap and can't pass through the forks. ha ha ha ha


----------



## SquirrelMaster

I call my boo-shooter PFS too, but its a boo shooter. So i dont get a chance at those nice prizes either. you were wanting an EXACT example, which will limit you more than i wanted. You could make one out of chucks template that Mr.Hays generously posted for you, and can still get first for both prizes. But honestly i was hoping for a more seasoned OPFS practitioner to answer the challenge :iono:.


----------



## Hrawk

Mister Magpie said:


> Hrawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just made this and* I called it a PFS*.
> 
> Will this be ok to use in the comp ?
> 
> 
> 
> As long as the ammo is bigger than the fork gap and can't pass through the forks. ha ha ha ha
Click to expand...

Cool. Tennis balls as ammo. Shame the first one will rip out the entire centre of the target . . .


----------



## Mister Magpie

Hrawk said:


> Mister Magpie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hrawk said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just made this and* I called it a PFS*.
> 
> Will this be ok to use in the comp ?
> 
> 
> 
> As long as the ammo is bigger than the fork gap and can't pass through the forks. ha ha ha ha
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cool. Tennis balls as ammo. Shame the first one will rip out the entire centre of the target . . .
Click to expand...

But if you would use a cannon ball no one would dare to question your accuracy!


----------



## Imperial

if i were any good, id use this altoid container fitting sized pfs flat top shooter


----------



## Pawpawsailor

SM,

You're getting way too caught up on names that have been given to variations of the PFS and quickly losing momentum. It is the parameters of any design that matter not what it is called. Charles's Boo Shooter is certainly a PFS and even Bill's BoyShot is very close. The agreed upon parameters suggesested by Charles comes closest to what is actually accepted in the PFS circles I'm in. TreeFork's shooter has a gap that is just a bit too wide and that is the problem with Bill's BoyShot... They are very close... Conisistency and fairness require us to stay within the guidelines that you established, so you have the monkey on your back. There's pressure at the top!


----------



## M.J

It's funny how easy it is to lose the melody on something like this.
It's obviously not my contest but what I was hoping for when I endorsed it was to see someone who's living the "pfs lifestyle" have a go at putting 5 shots together from 10m away, just like so many "aimers" have done over the last year or so. It's not like you're being asked to light a match or cut a card, just back up 33' away from a 2" circle and use your instincts to put five rounds into it. It doesn't seem like it should be a problem based on the shooting I've seen done with these shirt-pocket-fitting, no fork gap-having specials.


----------



## Tube_Shooter

So we can use boyshot sized slingshots now?


----------



## ZorroSlinger

M.J said:


> It's funny how easy it is to lose the melody on something like this.
> It's obviously not my contest but what I was hoping for when I endorsed it was to see someone who's living the "pfs lifestyle" have a go at putting 5 shots together from 10m away, just like so many "aimers" have done over the last year or so. It's not like you're being asked to light a match or cut a card, just back up 33' away from a 2" circle and use your instincts to put five rounds into it. It doesn't seem like it should be a problem based on the shooting I've seen done with these shirt-pocket-fitting, no fork gap-having specials.


I don't know about PFS lifestyle but as far as I know, PFS'ers are not the paper target types and this quickly put together contest conforming to the paper target format/parameters. Instead, I see PFS'ers plinking & chasing cans, or lining up full barbosal shaving cans and blasting them to get those exciting explosions! It is assumed that the PFS practitioners have the unique abilities of Dgui. I don't think so but they are aspiring in the hopes to tap into some of that Dgui shooting skill mojo!

Also IMO, PFS is not necessarily synonymous with only 'instinctive' style however, that is the technique that Dgui uses. Other's like myself, mix it up as the PFS can be used with aiming methods. When I occasionally get disappointed with my intuitive shooting progress, I fall back on aiming or combination of both.

In a dream kind of PFS tournament, I could see the participants being issued regulation OPFS frames! You can only use that frame but band it however you like and shoot it aiming or instinctive or combination. The contest events would maybe be more specific to PFS, also perhaps including speed draw & wing shooting! Maybe one day such a PFS tournament!


----------



## Pawpawsailor

M.J said:


> It's funny how easy it is to lose the melody on something like this.
> It's obviously not my contest but what I was hoping for when I endorsed it was to see someone who's living the "pfs lifestyle" have a go at putting 5 shots together from 10m away, just like so many "aimers" have done over the last year or so. It's not like you're being asked to light a match or cut a card, just back up 33' away from a 2" circle and use your instincts to put five rounds into it. It doesn't seem like it should be a problem based on the shooting I've seen done with these shirt-pocket-fitting, no fork gap-having specials.


God bless you MJ.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

M.J said:


> It's funny how easy it is to lose the melody on something like this.
> It's obviously not my contest but what I was hoping for when I endorsed it was to see someone who's living the "pfs lifestyle" have a go at putting 5 shots together from 10m away, just like so many "aimers" have done over the last year or so. It's not like you're being asked to light a match or cut a card, just back up 33' away from a 2" circle and use your instincts to put five rounds into it. It doesn't seem like it should be a problem based on the shooting I've seen done with these shirt-pocket-fitting, no fork gap-having specials.


MJ, im glad you get me bro.


----------



## Charles

For the record: I would not count my boo shooters as I originally designed them as PFS slingshots. The gap between the forks is more than ample to allow the ammo to pass through. You do not have to flip or use the speed bump effect to shoot them without fork hits. They are considerably more forgiving in that regard than flat top shooters or the traditional pfs.

And as far as I can see, there is absolutely nothing wrong with aiming a pfs ... you do not HAVE to shoot it instinctively. From my experience, the problem is getting used to the offset required by lofting the ammo over the forks. Zorro certainly has it right on this point.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Charles

SquirrelMaster said:


> BooShootersAndPFS.jpgTo Charles. If you will review your Boo shooter tutorial, you refer to the two on the left as PFS. You may use those. The other two you refered to as boo shooters, not PFS. It would be a shame for you not to participate because you do not understand.
> 
> SM


Perhaps I am not the one who is lacking understanding ... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Charles said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> BooShootersAndPFS.jpgTo Charles. If you will review your Boo shooter tutorial, you refer to the two on the left as PFS. You may use those. The other two you refered to as boo shooters, not PFS. It would be a shame for you not to participate because you do not understand.
> 
> SM
> 
> 
> 
> Perhaps I am not the one who is lacking understanding ... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
Click to expand...

Perhaps this challenge is not for you either. On the same tutorial you admit to not being as accurate with the pfs as with other slingshots you have made. now please sir do not hijack me. It is rude :hijack:


----------



## treefork

Here is one. I believe everything is in order this time except I needed one more in the circle. lolhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytKgfvSobCQ&feature=youtu.be


----------



## SquirrelMaster

I prefer a .5 in between the forks on my boo shooter but i do not count it as The PFS because even though originally designed as such, it has become *the boo shooter*. You do not have to shoot instinctively for the purpose of this challenge. To answer this challenge you must understand it, many have already understood that this is not for them. And they still posted videos in the spirit of fun, rather than try to argue there point of view.


----------



## Bill Hays

M.J said:


> It's funny how easy it is to lose the melody on something like this.
> It's obviously not my contest but what I was hoping for when I endorsed it was to see someone who's living the "pfs lifestyle" have a go at putting 5 shots together from 10m away, just like so many "aimers" have done over the last year or so. It's not like you're being asked to light a match or cut a card, just back up 33' away from a 2" circle and use your instincts to put five rounds into it. It doesn't seem like it should be a problem based on the shooting I've seen done with these shirt-pocket-fitting, no fork gap-having specials.


I'm with MJ on this one.

I am certainly not a paper shooter... in fact I hardly ever do it and almost all my shooting is at objects, using a regular sized slingshot.... BUT by using simple aiming techniques pioneered in the past and slightly modified in this day and age... I was able to pick up a PFS sized slingshot and punch 5 for 5, first try, from a little more than 10 meters... no marginal shots, everything inside of the 2.125 specs called for.

Sooooo, it seems reasonable to me that those living the "PFS lifestyle" should be able to do the same... since THAT is basically their style of slingshot, not mine!

I earned a 5 for 5 badge using a little slingshot that I'm not particularly fond of... time for a real pro with a PFS to step up and show us how it's done!

Also.... blowing up cans of whatever, chasing cans and all those things attributed to the PFS as being in it's realm of specialization.... I'm pretty sure all that and more has been done far more frequently and for a much longer period of time by those using larger varieties of slingshots... so it's not something that's unique to the PFS by any means.


----------



## Imperial

SquirrelMaster said:


> I prefer a .5 in between the forks on my boo shooter but i do not count it as The PFS because even though originally designed as such, it has become *the boo shooter*. You do not have to shoot instinctively for the purpose of this challenge. To answer this challenge you must understand it, many have already understood that this is not for them. And they still posted videos in the spirit of fun, rather than try to argue there point of view.


the way i see it, its only a boo shooter cause its made out of bamBOO . its a pfs SIZED slingshot if it falls within the specs of the OPFS.


----------



## Charles

Great shooting, TF. And you nailed all the specs. That round certainly qualified you for the 4/5 badge ... of course you already have a 5/5 badge! But it is a qualifying score for accuracy with a GENUINE pfs. Time for the pfs aficionados to step up to the plate.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## SquirrelMaster

TF, If you change your mind, you can win the prize for the 1st badge with The PFS if you enter the above vid in the badge qualification comp in the comp forum! i did not see you turn the pouch, BUT i will disregard it because you got no fork hits! 4/5 is great in my eyes! and you still have a chance at a gift card!


----------



## AZ Stinger

not sure why you need to see him turn the pouch, as a PF shooter I say if you can get that steel over the forks without doing so, all the power to ya haha......Great shooting there Treefork, well done


----------



## Arturito

YES !!! Treefork, the first TRUE PFS shooting, you are very talented man for not being so used with the technique ... my warm congrats !

Cheers


----------



## Pawpawsailor

Great Shooting TreeFork. Can you get the same badge again? Im unfamiliar with the whole process. i'll get with you by PM for my part of the Prize.


----------



## M.J

Nice work, TF!
I would have shot the mirror trying to pfs it.


----------



## treefork

Thank you for the kind words Gentlemen. Its different for sure. I know this PFS experience will just make me a better shooter. I'm having fun with it. I can't wait to get it out doors shooting random things and random distances. I want to do the cool aerial stuff also. I I was going to put this PFS shooting on the back burner but with this challenge it really pushed me to figure this little guy out. Everyone grab some ammo and a PFS and have at it!!!!


----------



## treefork

SquirrelMaster said:


> TF, If you change your mind, you can win the prize for the 1st badge with The PFS if you enter the above vid in the badge qualification comp in the comp forum! i did not see you turn the pouch, BUT i will disregard it because you got no fork hits! 4/5 is great in my eyes! and you still have a chance at a gift card!


When it comes to documenting a shot its one or the other. A good view of the target or the shooter. So I feel it is important to have the target in good view while still being able to see the shooter. Like Bill Hays always says there should never be video editing when showing a great shot. If the video is edited its very questionable. This is the setup we used for the Pocket Predator competitions. There is no way to shoot a fork like I was unless you do it right. If one had the capability to zoom on me you would see every detail.


----------



## rockslinger

Nice job Tree Fork! I'm with MJ, I would've hit the mirror and my hand using a PFS. :rofl:


----------



## Arturito

TreeFork, I would like you to accept PawPawSailor prize, besides it's an awesome piece, you deserve it !

cheers


----------



## treefork

Arturito said:


> TreeFork, I would like you to accept PawPawSailor prize, besides it's an awesome piece, you deserve it !
> 
> cheers


Thanks Arturo. Welcome back! We need you to show us how Its done!


----------



## SquirrelMaster

treefork said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> TF, If you change your mind, you can win the prize for the 1st badge with The PFS if you enter the above vid in the badge qualification comp in the comp forum! i did not see you turn the pouch, BUT i will disregard it because you got no fork hits! 4/5 is great in my eyes! and you still have a chance at a gift card!
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to documenting a shot its one or the other. A good view of the target or the shooter. So I feel it is important to have the target in good view while still being able to see the shooter. Like Bill Hays always says there should never be video editing when showing a great shot. If the video is edited its very questionable. This is the setup we used for the Pocket Predator competitions. There is no way to shoot a fork like I was unless you do it right. If one had the capability to zoom on me you would see every detail.
Click to expand...

fair enough.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

TreeFork has not entered his vid in the competition forum, so all 4 prizes are still up for grabs!


----------



## Pawpawsailor

SquirrelMaster said:


> TreeFork has not entered his vid in the competition forum, so all 4 prizes are still up for grabs!


Hold on there scout! I've already PM'd him that he wins my give away... He is already a holder of the badge so it would be redundant... He won my part my friend.

Perry


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Pawpawsailor said:


> Great Shooting TreeFork. Can you get the same badge again? Im unfamiliar with the whole process. i'll get with you by PM for my part of the Prize.


I believe he can qualify for the* first to qualify for a badge in the comp forum with The Pfs *as charles posted in the pfs topic by ghost. Some have disagreed with the pfs in TF first video he posted here. he can still make another vid with the same PFS in the second vid showing a perfect 5/5 shots and again post it in the competition forum to receive one of the 3 gift cards. even though he already has the badge.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Pawpawsailor said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> TreeFork has not entered his vid in the competition forum, so all 4 prizes are still up for grabs!
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on there scout! I've already PM'd him that he wins my give away... He is already a holder of the badge so it would be redundant... He won my part my friend.
> 
> Perry
Click to expand...

OH! i get you. I was wanting for him to post it in the comp forum, under the ss qualification badge topic, as i had put in the beginning of this topic. For "official" proof that someone has finally used THE PFS to qualify for a badge in LightGeoDucks topic.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

I was under the impression tree fork had passed on the prize. TreeFork i wish i knew how to link LGDs topic to this one, but please post your vid in that topic sir. LGD would have to judge it. But im sure he will call it a qualifier.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

SquirrelMaster said:


> OH! now i get you
> 
> 
> 
> Pawpawsailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> TreeFork has not entered his vid in the competition forum, so all 4 prizes are still up for grabs!
> 
> 
> 
> Hold on there scout! I've already PM'd him that he wins my give away... He is already a holder of the badge so it would be redundant... He won my part my friend.
> Perry
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> OH! i get you. I was wanting for him to post it in the comp forum, under the ss qualification badge topic, as i had put in the beginning of this topic. For "official" proof that someone has finally used THE PFS to qualify for a badge in LightGeoDucks topic.
Click to expand...

We're good SM... But what you're calling for would require a special badge be created for the PFS, and that's going overboard in my opinion.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

I dont think that it would REQUIRE a special badge, that sounds cool though. But i agree, its a little much. I wouldnt know how to do that either.


----------



## treefork

SquirrelMaster said:


> I dont think that it would REQUIRE a special badge, that sounds cool though. But i agree, its a little much. I wouldnt know how to do that either.


The site administrator " Night Knight " would have to think it was a good idea. He would also want to know that is what the forum members and moderators want.


----------



## AZ Stinger

The man did it it`s done....much respect to Treefork, just give him some rubber and a pouch and he`s the man to do it


----------



## B.P.R

Hmm... i may have to give this a go...

Starting off... with bin lids at 5M...  ...


----------



## Charles

Go for it, BPR!!! Come on, everyone ... the more the merrier. I hope to give it a go soon.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Tentacle Toast

If I miss a thread with a vid, PM me pronto with the time you posted it (& where, please), so I can check it out & get you your prize! I spent the day in Canada, so I don't know if I missed anything...


----------



## SquirrelMaster

treefork said:


> *I don't want any prize or anything.* I did these last night just in the spirit of fun and trying something new. I am not at home so I can't post dimensions of what I used. I used 5/8 in marbles with tex tubes and rayshot pouch. The lighting wasn't great. I did turn and tweak shooting OTT. PFS are different and very fun. Good luck and have fun!


So did you accept the prize TF? im not sure.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

SquirrelMaster said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> *I don't want any prize or anything.* I did these last night just in the spirit of fun and trying something new. I am not at home so I can't post dimensions of what I used. I used 5/8 in marbles with tex tubes and rayshot pouch. The lighting wasn't great. I did turn and tweak shooting OTT. PFS are different and very fun. Good luck and have fun!
> 
> 
> 
> So did you accept the prize TF? im not sure.
Click to expand...

Yes he did. I am sure.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

Here is the paper Micarta with Bamboo grip SWOPFS going to TreeFork...

Congratulations!


----------



## Charles

Congratulations, TF ... well deserved.

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## treefork

Thank you Charles. What a prize!!!!!!!


----------



## SmilingFury

Pawpawsailor said:


> Here is the paper Micarta with Bamboo grip SWOPFS going to TreeFork...
> Congratulations!


Wow! Awesome shooter! That is a piece that both winner and maker can be really proud of. Congrats to both Pawpawsailor and Treefork. 
Well done, both of you.
Be well,
SF


----------



## treefork

Yes I can't wait!


----------



## Tentacle Toast

You've earned it, Treefork; if I see that severed card, I know it's a thread worth watching...

...how's everyone doing with the 5/5? Making progress???


----------



## treefork

I'm at work right now. Hoping on doing it tomorrow.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

GREAT....so that's going to be one down fellas...whose next?


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Tentacle Toast said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understood it was 5/5.
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I took it as too. The fun just seems to be getting sapped away with all the "clarifications". I'm good on my word though; the first three to earn whatever is decided upon gets a certificate.
> 
> ...& all this is another reason why I'm turned off by the whole badge thing. I used to be heavy into Kung Fu; my Sifu wouldn't even let you THINK about getting your white belt until you'd been whipped into shape for it. He never competed until he started getting more popular, then there was challenge after challenge. We did a few tournaments in Rochester, but we'd have to quit our bout-fighting & real sparring to prep for tournament rules (like that point sparring nonsense, for example..). It wasn't worth it, so he decided to open up the "dojo" for a fight night the second Tuesday of every month. The place would be HOPPING! Schools from all over would show up, but it didn't last long, because 99% of the other schools would start everyone off with a white belt as soon as their first check cleared, & then after that their main focus in training was to decorate their halls with trophies, instead of turning out true fighters. They'd show up with chins high, & uniforms pressed & white, & leave with their, uh, "black belts" bloodied, black-eyed, & fat lipped by our medal-less yellow belts..sorry for the rant, it's just sometimes looking at this stuff reminds me of that.
Click to expand...

We got to be careful how divided we in the slingshot world get. We gotta be careful we respect each others thoughts opinions and ideas too, theres more than one way to skin a cat.The different names and theories or schools of thought, and money have caused alot of problems in the martial arts world. United we stand, divided we fall.


----------



## Imperial

SquirrelMaster said:


> We got to be careful how divided we in the slingshot world get.


ha ! if you only knew. its a shame really.


----------



## lightgeoduck

Wow, this thread grew quick 

I haven't had a chance to read everything, but I did see TF's amazing shooting (GOO JA TreeFork). I also scanned through enough to allow me to have some content in this post 

First, I always promote a challenge that gets people shooting slingshots especially on video, so I hope this brings up some new interest.

With that being said, my views on a challenge with a specific slingshot, might not match the premise of this thread. I definitely think an additional badge for a challenge just for the slingshot being used is a little bit redundant.. I don't think hardware used makes a challenge any harder or easier... other parameters would need to differ to make it ... well... different... ie target,distance, time or anything that would set it apart from a current running challenge.

I don't know if I would be considered an "Original PFSer" or part of the "PFS nation" because though the PFS is one of the first slingshots I started out shooting with (that and my LGD knuckle grip) I don't shoot it like alot of the die hard users do.. I don't think a PFS is harder or easier to shoot accurately than any other slingshot (with in itself) I shoot my PFSs the same way I shoot my other over-the-top shooters. I also shoot it just as accurately (or inaccurately depending on who you are comparing me to  ).. I have videos of doing 10/10/10 and other "standard" shots with my PFS and other low and narrows.. and though I may not be an "expert" I know how I feel, and what I experience while shooting, to know that there is no difference when you are a reference aimer ( I have threads discussing that, which can be used with any slingshot)

Which brings me to what would be an notably different achievement. I think the major "hub-bub" with the PFS is the style of shooting.. If one achieves any challenge with out reference aiming (using a part of the slingshot/hand to line up with the target) would deem that as a different accomplishment. However, even after stating that, it still wouldn't be the hardware, because it would still match up if using a "standard" slingshot. I also believe one of the biggest obstacles for people with the PFS (though this isn't counted as an "official challenge" ) is if one shoots eith TTF/OTF or anthing other than OTT, jumping to PFS as your "first" OTT shooting attempt will take some adjusting and noone can deny that the PFS is a bit less forgiving to errors and pain 

So, in summery , maybe I just don't get the views of the "left and right" since to me a slingshot is a slingshot, but I would love to see challenge achievements being accomplished by the "non referencers" (defined earlier in my post) because that style, to me, is amazing (because I don't believe I would ever be functional shooting that way  )

LGD


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Well make a vid, LGD! There's a trip to Simple-Shot in it for ya...


----------



## treefork

Just got home. I'm a little sleep deprived. I'll try to put one up later after a nap.


----------



## treefork

As far as division among shooters. I'm not a part of any of that. I don't mind what any one shoots. Why would I? I would like to be good at every type of shooting style out there. I just been shooting TTF. I'ts been a preference because that is what I got comfortable with. The cool thing is this little challenge has forced me to try something new. A PFS and shooting it vertical with twist and tweaking of the pouch. A whole new experience. I have a long way to go. I don't think we should condemn something until we really really give it a go. Will I have a preference in the end? Yes I will. I will never stop you or condemn your preference, but I won't turn down a fun challenge with your style of choice. lol Lets keep it fun. Were all shooting latex with leather pouches. They're all slingshots! What division?? Lets shoot!

Alright. I have to get some sleep now. lol


----------



## Pawpawsailor

treefork said:


> As far as division among shooters. I'm not a part of any of that. I don't mind what any one shoots. Why would I? I would like to be good at every type of shooting style out there. I just been shooting TTF. I'ts been a preference because that is what I got comfortable with. The cool thing is this little challenge has forced me to try something new. A PFS and shooting it vertical with twist and tweaking of the pouch. A whole new experience. I have a long way to go. I don't think we should condemn something until we really really give it a go. Will I have a preference in the end? Yes I will. I will never stop you or condemn your preference, but I won't turn down a fun challenge with your style of choice. lol Lets keep it fun. Were all shooting latex with leather pouches. They're all slingshots! What division?? Lets shoot!
> 
> Alright. I have to get some sleep now. lol


I agree, with this exception. I can see why slingbow, or starship, or wrist rocket, or PFS, or any other special interest fans would find it advantageous to have a subforum where they can still be part of the community here, but have a place focused on their particular favorite flavor but not bore others disinterested in that device. I note that some of these are represented. It would be nice to have a PFS corner represented. I dont know if that has been discussed. Regardless, if there is a reason for not doing so, it doesn't spoil my day. I like reading about the variety and get a lot of good ideas from the many things posted.

For what it's worth...


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Nice to see you here LGD, I was wanting the PFS vids to be posted in your badge comp. I wasnt trying to start my own. I agree with you on the reference aiming. I know it takes a instinctive level of skill to be a non reference aimer. thats advanced skill, its art! and a functioning instinctive shooter was who i was hoping to get for this challenge, because apperently it is a challenging task.


----------



## treefork

If there is enough interest, I don't see why a subforum can't happen. It seems it would organize the forum discussions more specificlly.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

...I got excited when I saw you were the last poster here, Treefork; thought I'd be watching a video instead of (well, in addition to) hitting "like"...


----------



## treefork

Had a go at it. When the camera is off I do it 5/5. Camera on 4/5 best. A little target panic/camera performance pressure. I need to walk away and try again later.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> Had a go at it. When the camera is off I do it 5/5. Camera on 4/5 best. A little target panic/camera performance pressure. I need to walk away and try again later.


Sounds like you need a fluff...


----------



## treefork

OK. Here is a 5/5 submission. One shot is on the line so I leave it to the judges.


----------



## lightgeoduck

Sorry TF. that didn't count, and now we have to take all of your badges away... Oh we'll, guess you have to do all of the comps all over again.

I really am sorry . 

Note : line hits count


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Jesus, Treefork, that's phenomenal! I couldn't even guarantee I'd hit that PAPER five times out of five with one of those! It's embarrassing; I swear, with a pfs in my hand, you'd think I'd never have shot ANYTHING in my life, it's ridiculous! My hats off to you, brother...you bust out with some crazy stuff, but this takes the cake!


----------



## Charles

Beautiful, TF ... Just beautiful.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Two more guys...who's claiming them?!


----------



## SmilingFury

Congrats TF, you really are a universal marksman. Well done.
Be well,
SF


----------



## AZ Stinger

That man can shoot, well done Treefork, you do some fine shootin....


----------



## ZorroSlinger

treefork said:


> OK. Here is a 5/5 submission. One shot is on the line so I leave it to the judges.


Haven't visited this topic for few days and SURPRISED. Ya used an official regulation PFS! Pretty dang good :thumbsup:


----------



## treefork

Thank you guys. I have to be honest. This challenge wasn't easy for me. It was a challenge. I had a lot of videos where I kept throwing a shot or two outside the circle. Shooting these little guys seems to be 99% mental. You really have to have a feel for it. Being on target is a sense of feel more than a visual thing. If you tweak the pouch more or less then you miss. The consistency in gripping this little frame was a challenge. Every thing has got to be the same. I switched to a HDPE frame with a leather lanyard. I must say the lanyard helped a lot. It allowed me to relax my grip.

Persistence is the key. That's why I like Badge Challenges.It really drives me in the direction of the goal.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

treefork said:


> Thank you guys. I have to be honest. This challenge wasn't easy for me. It was a challenge. I had a lot of videos where I kept throwing a shot or two outside the circle. Shooting these little guys seems to be 99% mental. You really have to have a feel for it. Being on target is a sense of feel more than a visual thing. If you tweak the pouch more or less then you miss. The consistency in gripping this little frame was a challenge. Every thing has got to be the same. I switched to a HDPE frame with a leather lanyard. I must say the lanyard helped a lot. It allowed me to relax my grip.
> Persistence is the key. That's why I like Badge Challenges.It really drives me in the direction of the goal.


You hit on something similar to what I found when I started shooting them. You can hold a PFS too tight. A relaxed consistent grip is important, and that will vary from frame to frame. Some folks do better with the OPFS design, but I needed a slim waist grip to get the right hold.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Congrats on the 5/5 TF. Im glad this thread didnt turn into an arguement and theres learning happening.


----------



## treefork

Pawpawsailor said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you guys. I have to be honest. This challenge wasn't easy for me. It was a challenge. I had a lot of videos where I kept throwing a shot or two outside the circle. Shooting these little guys seems to be 99% mental. You really have to have a feel for it. Being on target is a sense of feel more than a visual thing. If you tweak the pouch more or less then you miss. The consistency in gripping this little frame was a challenge. Every thing has got to be the same. I switched to a HDPE frame with a leather lanyard. I must say the lanyard helped a lot. It allowed me to relax my grip.
> Persistence is the key. That's why I like Badge Challenges.It really drives me in the direction of the goal.
> 
> 
> 
> You hit on something similar to what I found when I started shooting them. You can hold a PFS too tight. A relaxed consistent grip is important, and that will vary from frame to frame. Some folks do better with the OPFS design, but I needed a slim waist grip to get the right hold.
Click to expand...

I do believe your right in my experience here. I shot better with the first slingshot which was closer to what you shoot.It filled in the hand for more consistent hold. Problem was it didn't meet the fork width specs. I really didn't need the gap in the fork. It still would shoot the same with the pouch twisted and tweaked.


----------



## Pawpawsailor

treefork said:


> Pawpawsailor said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you guys. I have to be honest. This challenge wasn't easy for me. It was a challenge. I had a lot of videos where I kept throwing a shot or two outside the circle. Shooting these little guys seems to be 99% mental. You really have to have a feel for it. Being on target is a sense of feel more than a visual thing. If you tweak the pouch more or less then you miss. The consistency in gripping this little frame was a challenge. Every thing has got to be the same. I switched to a HDPE frame with a leather lanyard. I must say the lanyard helped a lot. It allowed me to relax my grip.
> Persistence is the key. That's why I like Badge Challenges.It really drives me in the direction of the goal.
> 
> 
> 
> You hit on something similar to what I found when I started shooting them. You can hold a PFS too tight. A relaxed consistent grip is important, and that will vary from frame to frame. Some folks do better with the OPFS design, but I needed a slim waist grip to get the right hold.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I do believe your right in my experience here. I shot better with the first slingshot which was closer to what you shoot.It filled in the hand for more consistent hold. Problem was it didn't meet the fork width specs. I really didn't need the gap in the fork. It still would shoot the same with the pouch twisted and tweaked.
Click to expand...

There was a need for definition purposes, apparently for this competition, but I don't know anyone of my PFS shooting friends that are that fussy about the dimensions. Just that it is pocketable and has a gap too small for TTF.


----------



## treefork

I'm going to make them now with little to no gap.


----------



## Charles

Well, I shot a few rounds for this competition today. I did not shoot a qualifying score. I will attach my best effort ... it was a nice group but a bit high and to the right. Part of my problem is that I find it difficult to see where on the target I am hitting. The impacts do not even show up well in the video.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Keep at it...


----------



## treefork

Nice group Charles. Stay with it. In all the other contest you always get in the zone. :thumbsup: :thumbsup:


----------



## Charles

Thanks for the encouragement, guys. I will give it another go in a day or so.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Imperial

Charles said:


> Part of my problem is that I find it difficult to see where on the target I am hitting.


do not see where you are hitting on the target, look them into the target.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Is there really one of these "emoticons" for EVERYTHING? I've seen them used here in so many variants that I'm to believe that the entire works of Shakespeare could be coherently conveyed solely through their use...I mean, where do you guys even FIND these things?! LoLoL


----------



## treefork

It's my turn to watch videos. Who's posting some?


----------



## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> It's my turn to watch videos. Who's posting some?


Well, besides the promise of Charles to make another go in "a day or so", there's looking to be absolutely nothing on the horizon  . I figured these certificates would be transformed into posts detailing orders made by now (after the need to check time-stamps to verify who the first three were to post submissions). Oh, well.


----------



## Arturito

Sorry, I had an Internet blackout from Friday until now, uploading 2 videos

Cheers


----------



## Arturito

Hey Charles, very good grouping a bit down and left and you will be done !

meanwhile due my poor BW still waiting ... mmm ... 275Mb each at 37Kiib/s, this thing will last for ages ... patience guys !

cheers

PS meanwhile waiting some "PFS lifestyle shooting"






over this target


----------



## Charles

Always a delight to see you shoot, Arturo!

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## Arturito

after 2 failed uploading attempts here is the first one, I've got confused when I saw only four holes, so when I said 3 or 4 (hits inside) and 5 for the total shoots, there is a "hole in hole" (slightly bigger) at the centre shadowed circle, another mistake made is that I usually place the catchbox 1 metre far away, so I move it in front to adjust the 33 feet, but this time I moved less to when I say 33 feet you will see 34 on the tape instead, but is ok for me






so I decided to do another video that fortunately shows undeniable placements (now uploading)

cheers


----------



## Charles

Beautiful shooting!!!! Looks like a solid 4/5 to me.

Cheers ....... Charles


----------



## treefork

Nice shooting Arturo. You did it using a butterfly draw. Nice.Try again. You should have the 5/5 no problem


----------



## Arturito

treefork said:


> Nice shooting Arturo. You did it using a butterfly draw. Nice.Try again. You should have the 5/5 no problem


Thanks Treefork, not a great achievement as yours (I have been shooting this way for almost a year) but you are right when you said it's 99% mental, having done some consecutive 5/5 while not recording I still feel the camera "pressure" ... I must relax and let it flow more evenly (still a bit rigid) as when I do informal shooting ... anyway I will try the 5/5, should be doable ...

cheers


----------



## treefork

Arturito said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting Arturo. You did it using a butterfly draw. Nice.Try again. You should have the 5/5 no problem
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Treefork, not a great achievement as yours (I have been shooting this way for almost a year) but you are right when you said it's 99% mental, having done some consecutive 5/5 while not recording I still feel the camera "pressure" ... I must relax and let it flow more evenly (still a bit rigid) as when I do informal shooting ... anyway I will try the 5/5, should be doable ...
> 
> cheers
Click to expand...

One tip. Do your verification after the fives shots. After shooting a nice 4/5 get back in and do another set without wasting time. You probably will hit your 5/5. Your more likely to have a good set. I would show my slingshot and target before then do all the measuring after the shoot. You have great form and consistency. 5/5 is going to happen for you.


----------



## treefork

Come on guys. You don't have to hit a home run but at least take a few swings up at the plate. I couldn't do this before the challenge. Taking on the challenge and persisting got it done for me. That is a small target for 33 feet . Takes concentration and patience. In the end you will be a better shot no matter what. :thumbsup:


----------



## Arturito

here is the second entry showing 4 hits, the group is not as good as the first entry (less relaxed again) and an ugly last shoot (too much "thinking" lol !)






good idea Treefork, I will prepare 2 or 3 additional targets and shoot again immediately ...

cheers


----------



## treefork

You have this Arturo.I had the same problem. I would lose a shot. Real nice display of shooting.


----------



## Arturito

Thanks Treefork and Charles, glad you liked ... come on guys, join us !! ... PFS's are a BIG FUN !!


----------



## ZorroSlinger

treefork said:


> Come on guys. You don't have to hit a home run but at least take a few swings up at the plate. I couldn't do this before the challenge. Taking on the challenge and persisting got it done for me. That is a small target for 33 feet . Takes concentration and patience. In the end you will be a better shot no matter what. :thumbsup:


Maybe it's *P*ickle-fork *F*ear *S*yndrome'. Or could be camera shy or not familiar with youtube & video stuff? Or needed practice with PFS before 'exposing' oneself to the world  Or ... can do Dgui video style and not show face & remain mysterious  Maybe a bit cold weather for some and these events more suited for summer? . Did I make enough excuses?  Would be cool though if other's give PFS a try.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Watchin yall makes me wana post a vid. ima show some footage of practice tonight with my boo shooter since i got no "pfs".


----------



## SmilingFury

Arturito said:


> after 2 failed uploading attempts here is the first one, I've got confused when I saw only four holes, so when I said 3 or 4 (hits inside) and 5 for the total shoots, there is a "hole in hole" (slightly bigger) at the centre shadowed circle, another mistake made is that I usually place the catchbox 1 metre far away, so I move it in front to adjust the 33 feet, but this time I moved less to when I say 33 feet you will see 34 on the tape instead, but is ok for me
> 
> 
> 
> 
> so I decided to do another video that fortunately shows undeniable placements (now uploading)
> cheers


Hola Sr. Arturo!
I just have to tell you that I find your backyard so beautiful and relaxing with the wind blowing in the trees in your garden. It looks like a very relaxing place to shoot. I know this has little to do with the actual topic but I found myself watching the trees in your video instead of the great shooting when I played the video the 2nd and 3rd times! Lol.
Be well,
SF


----------



## SquirrelMaster




----------



## Rayshot

Arturito said:


> here is the second entry showing 4 hits, the group is not as good as the first entry (less relaxed again) and an ugly last shoot (too much "thinking" lol !)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good idea Treefork, I will prepare 2 or 3 additional targets and shoot again immediately ...
> 
> cheers


Glad to see one of the PFS guys shooting. Thanks for videoing Arturito!

I am not surprised to see a pfs shooter plugging a 5/5 at 10 meters. Once one gets used to a style no doubt they will shoot well. You will get the 5/5 on video because as you said already have made the 5/5.

It is a pleasure to witness the willingness of the pfs "lovers?", to join in some vids with the rest of us. I suppose some of us wondered why the reluctance of the pfs crowd.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Rayshot said:


> Arturito said:
> 
> 
> 
> here is the second entry showing 4 hits, the group is not as good as the first entry (less relaxed again) and an ugly last shoot (too much "thinking" lol !)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> good idea Treefork, I will prepare 2 or 3 additional targets and shoot again immediately ...
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> Glad to see one of the PFS guys shooting. Thanks for videoing Arturito!
> 
> I am not surprised to see a pfs shooter plugging a 5/5 at 10 meters. Once one gets used to a style no doubt they will shoot well. You will get the 5/5 on video because as you said already have made the 5/5.
> 
> It is a pleasure to witness the willingness of the pfs "lovers?", to join in some vids with the rest of us. I suppose some of us wondered why the reluctance of the pfs crowd.
Click to expand...

...it's getting used to it that's the hard part. For me, anyways . I am improving, though. I just have to take breaks with something (ANYTHING) else to re-inflate my ego before giving it another go!


----------



## Arturito

lol ! my problem is the "camera syndrome within a challenge" just turn on the thing and 1 or 2 goes out, shut down the thing and then 5 or more (maybe up to 8) consecutive's again inside, I am BAD competing even against me !









cheers


----------



## Rayshot

Arturito said:


> lol ! my problem is the "camera syndrome within a challenge" just turn on the thing and 1 or 2 goes out, shut down the thing and then 5 or more (maybe up to 8) consecutive's again inside, I am BAD competing even against me !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cameras.jpg
> 
> cheers


I believe many of us can relate to the camera syndrome. I know I can. It is a distraction to contend with.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

...I get the "camera syndrome" just walking down the bloody street; minding my own business, carrying out my day, look up &...there's an eye...watching me...why? Oh, well. At least there's no competition on the line  ...


----------



## Charles

Again, very nice shooting Arturo. I am sure that if you just keep at it that 5/5 will appear on video.

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## Charles

SquirrelMaster said:


>


Very nice shooting, SM!! Nice to see the Boo in action.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Arturito

SquirrelMaster said:


>


Good shooting SM ... I believe the Boo shooter shown meets the PFS gap specification ...

cheers


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Thanks Charles and Arturo, I just had to join in on the fun.


----------



## GoodShot

I'm in where can I find the rules for the challenge ?


----------



## Tentacle Toast

5/5 @ 10M (33') with a "regulation" (see previous pages) pfs...


----------



## Tentacle Toast

...there are two videos on the way; be quick if you're gunning for one of the certificates 

Two left...Treefork took the first one (as expected), & Charles & Arturo are hot on his trail...


----------



## lightgeoduck

Tentacle Toast said:


> 5/5 @ 10M (33') with a "regulation" (see previous pages) pfs...


But if you want a badge you need to shoot at a specific sized target and do a few steps for verification.

Plus if you never had a badge there are 3/5 4/5 options as well which are great achievements in itself.

More info here http://slingshotforum.com/topic/20427-competition-slingshot-qualification-badge/

Plus to make it easier for me or another mod to get you a badge , please post the video there to.

Good work guys, and Art great to see your shooting vids again

Lgd


----------



## treefork

Well for what it's worth, I could not complete the challenge with a PFS today. So in my discouragement and frustration I had to pick up a blowgun and try the challenge. The soda pop size target of course.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Thanks for the help guys


----------



## Tentacle Toast

lightgeoduck said:


> Tentacle Toast said:
> 
> 
> 
> 5/5 @ 10M (33') with a "regulation" (see previous pages) pfs...
> 
> 
> 
> But if you want a badge you need to shoot at a specific sized target and do a few steps for verification.
> Plus if you never had a badge there are 3/5 4/5 options as well which are great achievements in itself.
> More info here http://slingshotforum.com/topic/20427-competition-slingshot-qualification-badge/
> Plus to make it easier for me or another mod to get you a badge , please post the video there to.
> Good work guys, and Art great to see your shooting vids again
> Lgd
Click to expand...

Forgot the whole target bit...thanks, duck!


----------



## Arturito

informal shooting, this are 5 shoots over a real soda can top (borders cut to the inner ring), distance was 35 feet, the last shoot (6th) was a 12mm ball






much more relaxed shooting out of any challenge/contest ...

cheers


----------



## treefork

Arturo. You can do it!


----------



## M.J

treefork said:


> Well for what it's worth, I could not complete the challenge with a PFS today. So in my discouragement and frustration I had to pick up a blowgun and try the challenge. The soda pop size target of course.


BLOWGUNS!!


----------



## treefork

M.J said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well for what it's worth, I could not complete the challenge with a PFS today. So in my discouragement and frustration I had to pick up a blowgun and try the challenge. The soda pop size target of course.
> 
> 
> 
> BLOWGUNS!!
Click to expand...

Ya. They're pretty accurate


----------



## Charles

Well, my PFS shooting is not as good as Treefork or Arturo, but here is a 3/5.






I had another 3/5 this morning, but the battery died on the camera!!! I will not bother going for more ... the PFS is not my preferred style of slingshot.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Arturito

Charles said:


> Well, my PFS shooting is not as good as Treefork or Arturo, but here is a 3/5.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I had another 3/5 this morning, but the battery died on the camera!!! I will not bother going for more ... the PFS is not my preferred style of slingshot.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


Very good shooting Charles, no matter the score, an accomplishment ! not being the PFS your preferred frame.

cheers


----------



## Charles

treefork said:


> Well for what it's worth, I could not complete the challenge with a PFS today. So in my discouragement and frustration I had to pick up a blowgun and try the challenge. The soda pop size target of course.


Ahhhh ... I have it figured out now. You have a HUGE magnet behind your backstop! :stickpoke: :rofl:

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## treefork

Stay with it Charles. You and Arturo are going to do it.


----------



## Charles

Arturo, I just wish I was as smooth and easy with it as you are.

Thanks for your confidence, TF!

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## GrayWolf

Charles...excellent shooting with a PFS!! The only thing I ever hit with them is air.

Arturo, my friend....glad to see you again....great shooting, very smooth and relaxed. Do you give lessons? I could use one for the smaller shooters.

Treefork...you are amazing....the tougher the shot the easier you make it look. :bowdown: :bowdown:

Todd


----------



## Charles

Thanks, GW!

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## Tube_Shooter

Well done guys you're all doing what I already knew was possible with a pfs,I used one three years ago and could get 5/5 @ 30 odd feet,I don't own a camera ATM and also I don't own a pfs as I lost it somewhere so I can't join you in this challenge this time...I just thought I'd come along to give some deserved applaud is all,cheers.


----------



## treefork

Tube_Shooter said:


> Well done guys you're all doing what I already knew was possible with a pfs,I used one three years ago and could get 5/5 @ 30 odd feet,I don't own a camera ATM and also I don't own a pfs as I lost it somewhere so I can't join you in this challenge this time...I just thought I'd come along to give some deserved applaud is all,cheers.


Grab the pattern, scrap wood and a saw. You have a pickle fork.


----------



## Tube_Shooter

treefork said:


> Tube_Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well done guys you're all doing what I already knew was possible with a pfs,I used one three years ago and could get 5/5 @ 30 odd feet,I don't own a camera ATM and also I don't own a pfs as I lost it somewhere so I can't join you in this challenge this time...I just thought I'd come along to give some deserved applaud is all,cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Grab the pattern, scrap wood and a saw. You have a pickle fork.
Click to expand...

I will see if I can knock one up and begin practice,getting shooting on video might be more tricky though,next on my list is a camera.


----------



## Arturito

Hello GW !! maybe you will be interested in this challenge, I see you like difficult innovative things so a PFS could be enough "challenging" for you, Treefork did an awesome shooting with it and I believe he is very pleased with his results not being his day to day style of shooting ... I am a bit far to give "lessons", also a bad teacher but I enjoy "my way" lol !

cheers


----------



## Arturito

I will be very busy for the next 2 weeks ... anyway I will persevere, I don't know when, this is the last failed attempt once again ... seems I am "bewitched" shooting live lol !






cheers


----------



## treefork

Arturo. You are way better than me with a PFS. Relax and let it happen. After a good round like that put another target up and do it again immediately. Verify after. That is awesome shooting.The one shot is off very little. You are there!


----------



## Arturito

treefork said:


> Arturo. You are way better than me with a PFS. Relax and let it happen. After a good round like that put another target up and do it again immediately. Verify after. That is awesome shooting.The one shot is off very little. You are there!


thanks friend for your support, next time I will follow your recommendation, I must work anxiety while recording, maybe doing it "your way" will help relax as I could fiction I am shooting not pursuing a "goal"

cheers


----------



## Charles

Arturito said:


> I will be very busy for the next 2 weeks ... anyway I will persevere, I don't know when, this is the last failed attempt once again ... seems I am "bewitched" shooting live lol !
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> cheers


Another great effort, Arturo. You shoot so easily. Frankly, I loved your expressions of frustration when a shot went wide ... I do much the same thing!

Cheers ....... Charles


----------



## Charles

I seem to be stuck on 3. I had a few minutes this morning and shot a couple of rounds. I had not turned on the furnace, so the basement and the bands were cold, causing my shots to go low. Took a few rounds to figure out how much compensation was required.

Cheers ... Charles


----------



## Tentacle Toast

I'm glad I'm not the only person whose struggled tremendously with these...this task is EASILY dispatched by everyone here with another rig; the constant failure with this ONE was really bringing me down. Keep at it, guys! I love to see. Success where I fliad


----------



## GrayWolf

Arturo...just like the card cut, this will come to you. Just tell yourself that you are recording your form to see if there are any problems.

As far as teaching....I'd have you for a teacher in a heartbeat. The smooth and relaxed style you shoot, and your passion for slingshots of all styles would make you a great teacher.

I may try this challenge when the snow is gone. I can't get 10 meters inside and I'm not going out to shoot in the cold...especially with a new style. Maybe this summer...anything is possible.

Keep shooting and have some fun.

Todd


----------



## Arturito

GrayWolf said:


> Arturo...just like the card cut, this will come to you. Just tell yourself that you are recording your form to see if there are any problems.
> 
> As far as teaching....I'd have you for a teacher in a heartbeat. The smooth and relaxed style you shoot, and your passion for slingshots of all styles would make you a great teacher.
> 
> I may try this challenge when the snow is gone. I can't get 10 meters inside and I'm not going out to shoot in the cold...especially with a new style. Maybe this summer...anything is possible.
> 
> Keep shooting and have some fun.
> 
> Todd


you are right my friend, I still have a BIG PROBLEM 4/5 instead of 5/5 lol ! the video was the first shooting of the day, this afternoon I've done 4 more 4/5 and quit for today (don't worth uploading the same thing), seems I will be the "4/5 man" forever lol! ... sorry, watching TV news I've noticed that the weather in the north is deadly cold ! ... better shoot the PFS for the spring or summer, this lovely-nasty things don't forgive and I don't know how it behaves at freezing temperatures... I hope the weather changes soon for better there ...

cheers


----------



## SquirrelMaster

treefork said:


> Tube_Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well done guys you're all doing what I already knew was possible with a pfs,I used one three years ago and could get 5/5 @ 30 odd feet,I don't own a camera ATM and also I don't own a pfs as I lost it somewhere so I can't join you in this challenge this time...I just thought I'd come along to give some deserved applaud is all,cheers.
> 
> 
> 
> Grab the pattern, scrap wood and a saw. You have a pickle fork.
Click to expand...

Thanks treefork. you really put it into perspective.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Check me out! My first original PFS! And it was the easiest board cut Ive ever made. Lets see if i can claim a gift card.







































hope yall like the pics


----------



## ryguy27

How Thick Was That Wood You Used? It Looks Like It Fits Your Hand Real Nice!


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Its 5/8in. thick now.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

So...I'm still sitting on two of these certificates...


----------



## treefork

Can I go again? Just kidding. lol


----------



## Tentacle Toast

...I'm seeing at least ONE name at the bottom here that I know would clean house. I think it sucks the balls of monkeys that he can't post vids...


----------



## treefork

I want to send a big THANK YOU out to Tentacle Toast and Pawpawsailer for the generous PRIZES put up for the challenge. I truly appreciate what you guys have done to promote enthusiasm for a special type of shooting in our community.

Thank You Guys!


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Glad you won it, Treefork, you're an inspiration!


----------



## Arturito

I am glad TreeFork won the prizes, done with a PFS it's a double merit ! ... anyway he always wins ! ha ha ...

cheers


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Treefork, & Treefork alone is excluded from the next competition...

LoL, I kidz 



treefork said:


> Can I go again? Just kidding. lol


Only if you do it quasi-inebriated & blindfolded, after spinning around 15 times really fast...
...I say this because I know you can't, just CAN'T turn down a challenge, & I'm thinking that qualification video would be some class A entertainment LoL


----------



## treefork

Tentacle Toast said:


> Treefork, & Treefork alone is excluded from the next competition...
> 
> LoL, I kidz
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can I go again? Just kidding. lol
> 
> 
> 
> Only if you do it quasi-inebriated & blindfolded, after spinning around 15 times really fast...
> ...I say this because I know you can't, just CAN'T turn down a challenge, & I'm thinking that qualification video would be some class A entertainment LoL
Click to expand...

I'm usually shooting after a night of no sleep. That should count for something. lol


----------



## M.J

I'm going to put a pfs on the end of a starship like Roger did. Then I'll be able to go 5/5 :thumbsup:


----------



## Imperial

M.J said:


> I'm going to put a pfs on the end of a starship like Roger did. Then I'll be able to go 5/5 :thumbsup:


flechettes ?


----------



## SquirrelMaster

This PFS is killin me! Slow death! But what one man can do, another can do. I know i can hit 5/5 with my natural.


----------



## SmilingFury

This is for you Squirrelmaster!!

And the re-mix for those who now, or have in the past, frequented a club of any kind. Hahaha.





Enjoy,
SF


----------



## Charles

What one man can do another can do ... try running a marathon in under 2:10. One should not take this slogan to mean that what one man can do all (or most) men can do ... or what one man can do, I can do. Just ain't so ......

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## SquirrelMaster

I hear you Charles, but...

"I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." philipians 4:13.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Why for I still have these....?


----------



## Charles

SquirrelMaster said:


> I hear you Charles, but...
> 
> "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." philipians 4:13.


You have your religious beliefs and are welcome to them. But this is not an appropriate forum for religious discussion.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## treefork

Charles said:


> What one man can do another can do ... try running a marathon in under 2:10. One should not take this slogan to mean that what one man can do all (or most) men can do ... or what one man can do, I can do. Just ain't so ......
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles


I used the same quote here in the forum.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/24606-pocket-predator-shooting-contest-fun-prizes-and-increased-skills/page-32

There is truth when you open your mind and heart and spirit.

Shooting well is not a great physical feat.


----------



## SmilingFury

Charles said:


> What one man can do another can do ... try running a marathon in under 2:10. One should not take this slogan to mean that what one man can do all (or most) men can do ... or what one man can do, I can do. Just ain't so ......
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles


It is just a movie quote Charles. I will never kill a bear with a wooden pike like the character in this film either. I was just using it to encourage and inspire. It just means that more is in the realm of possibility than we usually think there is. I might not run a marathon in 2:10 but could use that and the fact that it was done by a person of the same species to run MY fastest marathon. I understand you warning about thinking of all human as equal and having equal capability, but I would have to counter with a warning. Your presumption that not all men are capable of equal feats , thus being unequal, is the fundamental basis for most cases of slavery and genocide throughout history, is it not? Not exactly the nicest stuff yes?

I am not trying to start a fight. I respect you as an intelligent man and saw a point that could be discussed is all. Why not support the inclusion rather than the exclusion of people and their potential accomplishments? Would we not be stifling the human spirit of evolution and adaptability when doing the opposite?

Just a discussion point, 
SF

Ps: not an intentional hijack. Sorry Squirrel.


----------



## treefork

Alright. Let's see some PFS videos. The man has two nice prizes dangling out there for five hole punches in a piece of paper.


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Charles said:


> SquirrelMaster said:
> 
> 
> 
> I hear you Charles, but...
> 
> "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me." philipians 4:13.
> 
> 
> 
> You have your religious beliefs and are welcome to them. But this is not an appropriate forum for religious discussion.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
Click to expand...

Focus Charles! Im just saying I havent givin up on gettin a gift card.


----------



## Charles

October 2013 Champion of Champions Winner

August 2013 Pocket Predator Card Cutting Contest Winner
August 2013 Pocket Predator Most Consecutive Cards Hit
July 2013 Pocket Predator Match Light contest Winner
ECST 2013 6th Place Overall

Baseball Hall of Fame

Hockey Hall of Fame

Olympic Games Medals

Nobel Prizes

Academy Awards

etc., etc., etc.

Sometimes it is appropriate to recognize superior abilities.

Soooo ... How about some more of those 5/5 PFS videos????

Cheers ....... Charles


----------



## SmilingFury

Charles said:


> October 2013 Champion of Champions Winner
> August 2013 Pocket Predator Card Cutting Contest Winner
> August 2013 Pocket Predator Most Consecutive Cards Hit
> July 2013 Pocket Predator Match Light contest Winner
> ECST 2013 6th Place Overall
> 
> Baseball Hall of Fame
> Hockey Hall of Fame
> Olympic Games Medals
> Nobel Prizes
> Academy Awards
> etc., etc., etc.
> 
> Sometimes it is appropriate to recognize superior abilities.
> 
> Soooo ... How about some more of those 5/5 PFS videos????
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


I agree. Treefork is an amazing shot, through both natural talent and through his hard work at achieving his level of accuracy and consistency.

Sorry if I thought you were saying something that you weren't. It just read that way. Thanks for clarifying. 
Enough said about that,
SF


----------



## Arturito

maybe in a week I will try it again (5/5), right now my family is visiting for summer holidays (son, daughter and the little ones) ...

cheers


----------



## treefork

I'm loving my prizes from this contest. A beautiful PFS from Pawpawsailer and a Scout with flip clips from TentacleToast's gift card.

Thanks again Guys!!


----------



## Pawpawsailor

treefork said:


> I'm loving my prizes from this contest. A beautiful PFS from Pawpawsailer and a Scout with flip clips from TentacleToast's gift card.
> 
> Thanks again Guys!!


I hope to see you shooting the SWOPFS soon Treefork. I hope you enjoy shooting it.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

Sooo....

How're we doin' here, fellas (& ladies)? I'm going to be gone for a while again in a couple weeks...after that, you may have to wait a while to claim your prizes...


----------



## SquirrelMaster

Im still in the process. Just been busy.


----------



## treefork

I decided to put my prize from Pawpawsailer to use today. I figured a card cut would be the best way to break it in. First time shooting it This little one is Nice! I'm soft shooting as Dgui describes it. Short drawing to the chin.I'm thinking match light next.


----------



## AZ Stinger

Well done sir....


----------



## ryguy27

Is A Lanyard Allowed? If Not I Can Remove Mine When I Enter.


----------



## Charles

ryguy27 said:


> Is A Lanyard Allowed? If Not I Can Remove Mine When I Enter.


If my pinky hole was all right, I am sure your lanyard will be fine.

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## Charles

treefork said:


> I decided to put my prize from Pawpawsailer to use today. I figured a card cut would be the best way to break it in. First time shooting it This little one is Nice! I'm soft shooting as Dgui describes it. Short drawing to the chin.I'm thinking match light next.


Very fine shooting indeed!

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## ryguy27

Charles said:


> ryguy27 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Is A Lanyard Allowed? If Not I Can Remove Mine When I Enter.
> 
> 
> 
> If my pinky hole was all right, I am sure your lanyard will be fine.
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles
Click to expand...

Great!

So Far I'm Getting 1/5 Every Other Try. I'm Thinking Of Changing From My Tapered Tubes To Those Long Balloons Ruthie Posted About. Hopefully That Will Help With Shooting!


----------



## Imperial

imo, if you have to use a lanyard with your pfs, then you need a lighter pull set up. only reason i can see one using a lanyard with a pfs , is if you need it cause of an injury or physical inability to grip it properly with your hand. hope i wasnt misunderstood.


----------



## Charles

Imperial said:


> imo, if you have to use a lanyard with your pfs, then you need a lighter pull set up. only reason i can see one using a lanyard with a pfs , is if you need it cause of an injury or physical inability to grip it properly with your hand. hope i wasnt misunderstood.


For a contrary view:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/22020-my-keys-to-reliable-accuracy/

Using an open grip is likely to result in dropping the slingshot ... a lanyard will help prevent that.

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## SmilingFury

Charles said:


> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> imo, if you have to use a lanyard with your pfs, then you need a lighter pull set up. only reason i can see one using a lanyard with a pfs , is if you need it cause of an injury or physical inability to grip it properly with your hand. hope i wasnt misunderstood.
> 
> 
> 
> For a contrary view:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/22020-my-keys-to-reliable-accuracy/
> 
> Using an open grip is likely to result in dropping the slingshot ... a lanyard will help prevent that.
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles
Click to expand...

Charles, 
I am curious, do you know of anyone who shoots a pfs with an "open" grip (like MJ has in the picture of that thread)? I am a novice with the pfs and I am curious if I have been gripping it too hard or too soft, if I am wrapping my hand around it too much or if I have to secure it further than the moderate grip I use now. It might be obvious, but i find myself practicing two different grips. One for pfs and another for my other slingshots. Thanks for any input.
SF


----------



## Charles

SmilingFury said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> imo, if you have to use a lanyard with your pfs, then you need a lighter pull set up. only reason i can see one using a lanyard with a pfs , is if you need it cause of an injury or physical inability to grip it properly with your hand. hope i wasnt misunderstood.
> 
> 
> 
> For a contrary view:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/22020-my-keys-to-reliable-accuracy/
> 
> Using an open grip is likely to result in dropping the slingshot ... a lanyard will help prevent that.
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Charles,
> I am curious, do you know of anyone who shoots a pfs with an "open" grip (like MJ has in the picture of that thread)? I am a novice with the pfs and I am curious if I have been gripping it too hard or too soft, if I am wrapping my hand around it too much or if I have to secure it further than the moderate grip I use now. It might be obvious, but i find myself practicing two different grips. One for pfs and another for my other slingshots. Thanks for any input.
> SF
Click to expand...

I am certainly not an expert with the pfs style of slingshot. But I will give you my take on it.

Really gripping the slingshot very hard is not a good thing to do ... particularly with small frames like the pfs. I think a lot of folks who use an open grip come to slingshots from archery, where a very loose grip is preferred. Part of the reason I like pinky holes is that it allows me to use a slightly looser grip without the worry of dropping it.

A very tight grip means your hand muscles are very tense, and so they will tend to jerk the frame when the tension on the bands is released. On the other hand, a very loose grip can lead to much the same problem in my experience, as the tendency there is to grab the frame at release to keep from dropping it. So, as Aristotle admonishes us, the middle way is probably best.

I find it really helps to keep the wrist as straight as possible ... the line from the inner wrist bone along the thumb. That is often what folks mean when they say you should point the forks toward your target ... too much and you hit your hand ... the forks should be angled toward the target just enough that the wrist and thumb are in line. That will give you a pretty firm hold with less strain on your wrist. But remember ... I do not use a hammer grip ... I use a finger hook and thumb brace up at the band ties. Try to keep your shoulder and elbow solid when you release ... my fliers are generally caused by dropping my frame hand or moving it to one side when I release. Let the bands do the work ... you are not throwing the ammo at the target with your arm.

For myself, I use basically the same frame holding technique with a pfs as I do with my other frames. But all of us are different. What works for me might not work for you. Treefork is the guy to weigh in on this topic.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## treefork

I am not an expert but I am a proponent of lanyards. Allows for a proper hold of the sling shot. With out a lanyard I lose the slingshot once in awhile. That gives you an idea of how tight I my grip is. A properly adjusted lanyard is a simple shooting aid. I'm uncomfortable without one. The thing to realize like with any thing is that the subtle change may not work for you at first but you need to give it time. If your not shooting as well as you would like you obviously need to try something else. The slingshot is capable of tremendous accuracy. Its our handling of it that causes the ball to miss the target.


----------



## M.J

If I put a lanyard on a pfs I'd still hit the forks every time anic:


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## SmilingFury

Thanks Charles. That was some good info to consider. I have been experimenting with slanted pfs forks because of the difference in the diameter of my grip compared to forks that allow me to comfortably wrap my index finger and brace with my thumb( or slightly pinch grip by cheating the thumb around a little) . I am finding handles angled toward my left grip hand more comfortable for the whole arm-wrist-thumb alignment thing. Rather than holding a fist whose pfs is straight up and down, a tilted handle allows my arm and hand to sit at about a 60 degree angle to the ground. I never do this with other shooters as I shoot sidearm/ gangsta. 
I am no expert shot. Not by a long shot(pun intended) , but i am curious if this "dual personality" to my shooting is helping or hurting my development. I know experimentation is good in this sport but when do you just say "this is how i shoot a pfs" and " this is how I shoot a 'X' slingshot"?

Thanks Treefork, 
I don't mean to seem hardheaded but I am trying to do everything to develop as a shooter without a wrist lanyard. See , they are considered illegal in my home state of NewYork where I will be doing much more shooting shortly. They consider a wrist braced lanyard the same as a wrist rocket style sling. I would rather not get used to using one. I guess the short answer is to just keep practicing until the gods allow me a breakthrough in my accuracy.

Thanks for the info,
SF


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## Tentacle Toast

...every time I see a new post here, I think it's a video


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## Tentacle Toast

Oh, & there's no specific mention of lanyards in NY state law:
A person is guilty of criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree when: (1) He or she possesses any firearm, electronic dart gun, electronic stun gun, gravity knife, switchblade knife, pilum ballistic knife, metal knuckle knife, cane sword, billy, blackjack, bludgeon, plastic knuckles, metal knuckles, chuka stick, sand bag, sandclub, wrist-brace type slingshot or slungshot, shirken or "Kung Fu star"; or (2) He possesses any dagger, dangerous knife, dirk, razor, stiletto, imitation pistol, or any other dangerous or deadly instrument or weapon with intent to use the same unlawfully against another; or (3) He or she knowingly has in his or her possession a rifle, shotgun or firearm in or upon a building or grounds, used for educational purposes, of any school, college or university, except the forestry lands, wherever located, owned and maintained by the State University of New York college of environmental science and forestry, or upon a school bus as defined in section one hundred forty-two of the vehicle and traffic law, without the written authorization of such educational institution; or (4) He possesses a rifle or shotgun and has been convicted of a felony or serious offense; or (5) He possesses any dangerous or deadly weapon and is not a citizen of the United States; or (6) He is a person who has been certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, as defined in subdivision sixteen of section 265.00, and refuses to yield possession of such rifle or shotgun upon the demand of a police officer. Whenever a person is certified not suitable to possess a rifle or shotgun, a member of the police department to which such certification is made, or of the state police, shall forthwith seize any rifle or shotgun possessed by such person. A rifle or shotgun seized as herein provided shall not be destroyed, but shall be delivered to the headquarters of such police department, or state police, and there retained until the aforesaid certificate has been rescinded by the director or physician in charge, or other disposition of such rifle or shotgun has been ordered or authorized by a court of competent jurisdiction. (7) He knowingly possesses a bullet containing an explosive substance designed to detonate upon impact. (8) He possesses any armor piercing ammunition with intent to use the same unlawfully against another. Criminal possession of a weapon in the fourth degree is a class A misdemeanor.


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## Tentacle Toast

...it's also worth noting that a solid set of hardwood knuckles would be completely legal, too  ...might catch some shit initially, but nothing that'd stick.

That's for the state as a whole though; if you're going to the city, you'd be wise to check that specifically; its a world of it's own there...


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## Tentacle Toast

...I hate this shithole state. The lands are beautiful, but the government is a horrible joke...


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## Arturito

Glad to watch you cutting a card with a PFS TreeFork ... great shooting display !

cheers


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## Charles

M.J said:


> If I put a lanyard on a pfs I'd still hit the forks every time anic:


Speed bump, speed bump, speed bump. If you use the speed bump effect, you will not hit your hand or your forks. Of course you might not be able to hit your target either!!! :wave:

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Arturito

Charles said:


> SmilingFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> imo, if you have to use a lanyard with your pfs, then you need a lighter pull set up. only reason i can see one using a lanyard with a pfs , is if you need it cause of an injury or physical inability to grip it properly with your hand. hope i wasnt misunderstood.
> 
> 
> 
> For a contrary view:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/22020-my-keys-to-reliable-accuracy/
> 
> Using an open grip is likely to result in dropping the slingshot ... a lanyard will help prevent that.
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Charles,
> I am curious, do you know of anyone who shoots a pfs with an "open" grip (like MJ has in the picture of that thread)? I am a novice with the pfs and I am curious if I have been gripping it too hard or too soft, if I am wrapping my hand around it too much or if I have to secure it further than the moderate grip I use now. It might be obvious, but i find myself practicing two different grips. One for pfs and another for my other slingshots. Thanks for any input.
> SF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am certainly not an expert with the pfs style of slingshot. But I will give you my take on it.
> 
> Really gripping the slingshot very hard is not a good thing to do ... particularly with small frames like the pfs. I think a lot of folks who use an open grip come to slingshots from archery, where a very loose grip is preferred. Part of the reason I like pinky holes is that it allows me to use a slightly looser grip without the worry of dropping it.
> 
> A very tight grip means your hand muscles are very tense, and so they will tend to jerk the frame when the tension on the bands is released. On the other hand, a very loose grip can lead to much the same problem in my experience, as the tendency there is to grab the frame at release to keep from dropping it. So, as Aristotle admonishes us, the middle way is probably best.
> 
> I find it really helps to keep the wrist as straight as possible ... the line from the inner wrist bone along the thumb. That is often what folks mean when they say you should point the forks toward your target ... too much and you hit your hand ... the forks should be angled toward the target just enough that the wrist and thumb are in line. That will give you a pretty firm hold with less strain on your wrist. But remember ... I do not use a hammer grip ... I use a finger hook and thumb brace up at the band ties. Try to keep your shoulder and elbow solid when you release ... my fliers are generally caused by dropping my frame hand or moving it to one side when I release. Let the bands do the work ... you are not throwing the ammo at the target with your arm.
> 
> For myself, I use basically the same frame holding technique with a pfs as I do with my other frames. But all of us are different. What works for me might not work for you. Treefork is the guy to weigh in on this topic.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
Click to expand...

I recognize the advantage of a lazy grip so lanyards and pinky holes plays a role I guess, personally I've never felt comfortable a lanyard, something strange squeezing my wrist lol ! few days ago I build a "grooved" PFS shooter to be hold only by "finger tips" with good results





















at maximum pull it almost "float" and during retraction it gently recoils over the palm

cheers


----------



## treefork

Twist, Tweak and push the fork forward. No hand or fork hits. Watch Dgui vids. He is the PFS Master.


----------



## Charles

Arturito said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmilingFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> imo, if you have to use a lanyard with your pfs, then you need a lighter pull set up. only reason i can see one using a lanyard with a pfs , is if you need it cause of an injury or physical inability to grip it properly with your hand. hope i wasnt misunderstood.
> 
> 
> 
> For a contrary view:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/22020-my-keys-to-reliable-accuracy/
> 
> Using an open grip is likely to result in dropping the slingshot ... a lanyard will help prevent that.
> 
> Cheers ...... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Charles,
> I am curious, do you know of anyone who shoots a pfs with an "open" grip (like MJ has in the picture of that thread)? I am a novice with the pfs and I am curious if I have been gripping it too hard or too soft, if I am wrapping my hand around it too much or if I have to secure it further than the moderate grip I use now. It might be obvious, but i find myself practicing two different grips. One for pfs and another for my other slingshots. Thanks for any input.
> SF
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I am certainly not an expert with the pfs style of slingshot. But I will give you my take on it.
> 
> Really gripping the slingshot very hard is not a good thing to do ... particularly with small frames like the pfs. I think a lot of folks who use an open grip come to slingshots from archery, where a very loose grip is preferred. Part of the reason I like pinky holes is that it allows me to use a slightly looser grip without the worry of dropping it.
> 
> A very tight grip means your hand muscles are very tense, and so they will tend to jerk the frame when the tension on the bands is released. On the other hand, a very loose grip can lead to much the same problem in my experience, as the tendency there is to grab the frame at release to keep from dropping it. So, as Aristotle admonishes us, the middle way is probably best.
> 
> I find it really helps to keep the wrist as straight as possible ... the line from the inner wrist bone along the thumb. That is often what folks mean when they say you should point the forks toward your target ... too much and you hit your hand ... the forks should be angled toward the target just enough that the wrist and thumb are in line. That will give you a pretty firm hold with less strain on your wrist. But remember ... I do not use a hammer grip ... I use a finger hook and thumb brace up at the band ties. Try to keep your shoulder and elbow solid when you release ... my fliers are generally caused by dropping my frame hand or moving it to one side when I release. Let the bands do the work ... you are not throwing the ammo at the target with your arm.
> 
> For myself, I use basically the same frame holding technique with a pfs as I do with my other frames. But all of us are different. What works for me might not work for you. Treefork is the guy to weigh in on this topic.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I recognize the advantage of a lazy grip so lanyards and pinky holes plays a role I guess, personally I've never felt comfortable a lanyard, something strange squeezing my wrist lol ! few days ago I build a "grooved" PFS shooter to be hold only by "finger tips" with good results
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bkp1.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bkp2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bkp3.jpg
> 
> at maximum pull it almost "float" and during retraction it gently recoils over the palm
> 
> cheers
Click to expand...

Very nice idea!

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## ZorroSlinger

I also like lanyards. My fuller size Scouts come with them. The simple PFSs that I make,I add lanyards to them. Don't have to grip as hard, helps me with grip repeatability since slingshot is somewhat attached/fixed to my hand, I don't have to re-adjust my grip as often after each ammo reload in pouch.

I practice PFS using different shooting styles ... Dgui way, gangsta/sideways, and 45 degree angle cant, sort of like Rufus Hussey. Switching between aiming & intuitive. For me, the thumbs up pouch grip short draw seems easiest. The thumbs down pouch grip longer power draw to about ear, for me, can occasionally result with some fork hits. You have to focus on the pouch bend/tweak which helps with added pouch/ammo lift to clear forks. Gobstopper candy can be used as training ammo. The candy will shatter if fork hits & less general damage indoors 

PFS can be temperamental in learning to use. It's a journey for me in trying to master it


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## treefork

My SWOPFS from Pawpawsailer ( Perry) had a shot at match lighting and succeeded. This is my first PFS match light.






Thanks Perry!


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## Tentacle Toast

Wow man, just...wow...

Great shooting, as usual, Treefork. What was that, a light on the 15th shot? With a pfs...unreal. I watch the trajectory of your ammo when the camra catches it well; it is apparent that the pfs yields for you the LEAST consistency...but the fact that they all passed within a set radius is impressive -without injury, to boot! I've set mine down for a while, as I know when I've had enough,but I'll be giving it another go again right soon. I will NOT be defeated!

At any rate, top shelf shooting there, Treefork...you never disappoint!


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## Charles

Great job, TF!!

Cheers ....... Charles


----------



## treefork

I'm just beginning with PFS. I hope to be more of all round shooter this year. Come on guys! If I can do it so can you. I really mean that. You just have let the ammo fly and learn as you go. Have fun! Lets put up some videos. There is two slots left. Don't worry about the camera. You get used to it after awhile. You can always delete a messed up round and do over.


----------



## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> ... Don't worry about the camera. You get used to it after awhile. You can always delete a messed up round and do over.


Obviously SOMEONE has never had a porn audition...

Spot-on about the rest; these last two certificates are burning a hole in my inbox...


----------



## treefork

Tentacle Toast said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Don't worry about the camera. You get used to it after awhile. You can always delete a messed up round and do over.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously SOMEONE has never had a porn audition...
> 
> Spot-on about the rest; these last two certificates are burning a hole in my inbox...
Click to expand...

Is it true the camera adds ten pounds. lol


----------



## Pawpawsailor

Not for competition and not as elegant as Treefork but here is a partial cardcut from six meters.

[URL:http://youtu.be/kXBxonABi9Q]


----------



## GrayWolf

Pawpawsailor said:


> Not for competition and not as elegant as Treefork but here is a partial cardcut from six meters.
> 
> [URL:http://youtu.be/kXBxonABi9Q]


Nice shot, Perry!!


----------



## Tentacle Toast

treefork said:


> Tentacle Toast said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> treefork said:
> 
> 
> 
> ... Don't worry about the camera. You get used to it after awhile. You can always delete a messed up round and do over.
> 
> 
> 
> Obviously SOMEONE has never had a porn audition...
> Spot-on about the rest; these last two certificates are burning a hole in my inbox...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Is it true the camera adds ten pounds. lol
Click to expand...

...just not where it counts


----------



## treefork

Pawpawsailor said:


> Not for competition and not as elegant as Treefork but here is a partial cardcut from six meters.
> 
> [URL:http://youtu.be/kXBxonABi9Q]


Your hooked now. You'll never be the same. lol


----------



## Charles

Pawpawsailor said:


> Not for competition and not as elegant as Treefork but here is a partial cardcut from six meters.
> 
> [URL:http://youtu.be/kXBxonABi9Q]


Good beginning!

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## Tentacle Toast

So...the last post here was over two weeks ago, & the last non-practice entry was by Treefork... I know add-ons to the rules aren't crowd pleasers, but I'm sort of getting tired of sitting on these last two certificates. I think if they're not won by the 1st of April, I'm going to "reappropriate" them to some type of challenge/contest of my own construction. If you're not cool with this, make a video. This is more than reasonable; this much time wasted isn't.


----------



## treefork

Tentacle Toast said:


> So...the last post here was over two weeks ago, & the last non-practice entry was by Treefork... I know add-ons to the rules aren't crowd pleasers, but I'm sort of getting tired of sitting on these last two certificates. I think if they're not won by the 1st of April, I'm going to "reappropriate" them to some type of challenge/contest of my own construction. If you're not cool with this, make a video. This is more than reasonable; this much time wasted isn't.


Seems reasonable to me. There is always a time limit.


----------



## GrayWolf

I'd make a video, but it wouldn't count. 1. I don't have the distance required inside....it's -20F outside. And 2. it would take me weeks to qualify for a badge with a PFS....unless we can make the target a little bigger, say 5 to 6 feet diameter....I could bring back my nickname of Helen Keller when I use a PFS.

Todd


----------



## Tentacle Toast

GrayWolf said:


> ...I could bring back my nickname of Helen Keller when I use a PFS.
> 
> Todd


I LoL'd...

....I'm in the same boat as you with these things, man. I am seeing slight (but inconsistent) improvement, though.

20℉ is downright balmy compared to some of the weather here; & I didn't take that into consideration. I'd REALLY like to get off of these things...what about to the first of May? Would an additional 10 weeks to allow the weather a chance to break be fair?


----------

