# Simple idea for clay ball roller



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

I just came across this little article on making clay balls for slingshot ammo. I thought some here might find it interesting.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Fast-Simple-BeadBoilie-fish-baitSlingshot-ammo-rol/?ALLSTEPS

Cheers ..... Charles


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## libel (Jul 1, 2013)

Cool trick although slicing a pvc pipe in two is a hassle by itself if you don't have the right tools. Based on my experience with pottery clay I think rolling them in your hands works much faster.


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## leon13 (Oct 4, 2012)

instructables Rock ! thanks for the link

cheers


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

libel said:


> Cool trick although slicing a pvc pipe in two is a hassle by itself if you don't have the right tools. Based on my experience with pottery clay I think rolling them in your hands works much faster.


I do not disagree with you. The thought of trying to roll several hundred clay balls using this technique leaves me a bit cold. I would be inclined to make something to mass produce the things. Say a tray and a top, each with several of the PVC troughs, with rails alongside to keep them lined up. Then roll out slabs of clay to a certain thickness and use a sharpened section of pvc to cut out discs ... cookie cutter style. Put a disk into each trough and roll a bunch of balls at once.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

I found the perfect tool....ill post a link when i get home from work.


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## jazz (May 15, 2012)

Thanks for the link, Charles!

Its good to know various things, this one is usrely one of them. It deserves attention, especialy as further development along your comments or similar. Who knows, maybe in couple of years this might be the base of the solution for affordable, self made ammo in decent quantities?

cheers,

jazz


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## youcanthide (Jun 16, 2013)

http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&source=android-browser&hl=en-GB&q=gardner+boilie+rolling+table&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tgNLU_PiJKbY8gfz2IGQDw


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## jazz (May 15, 2012)

great!


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

youcanthide said:


> http://www.google.co.uk/search?ie=UTF-8&source=android-browser&hl=en-GB&q=gardner+boilie+rolling+table&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tgNLU_PiJKbY8gfz2IGQDw


That is the sort of thing I had in mind, and they have been discussed on the forum before, for example here:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/1853-mold-for-clay-balls/

But it seems to me, being a cheap old bugger, that the cost of a professionally made boilie roller is pretty steep. But making one's own with pvc pipe might be a cheap and effective option.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

That's the one i found....since i cant find a cheap mold for wax, it might work to use clay with my targets. I'm going to get one and try it


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## Underachiever (Oct 17, 2013)

That´s a very good idea making ammo for my son Linus, thank you very much for the Link Charles!

Take care!

Luke


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## logo96 (Jun 29, 2011)

Great idea!


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## Marnix (Mar 29, 2014)

Thanks! Go instructables!


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## Rathunter (Feb 14, 2014)

libel said:


> Cool trick although slicing a pvc pipe in two is a hassle by itself if you don't have the right tools. Based on my experience with pottery clay I think rolling them in your hands works much faster.


Clamp it in a vice and use a hacksaw. Not super hard... but if you lack a stable vice or hacksaw... use a heated knife blade.


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

IDEAS ONLY

EXTRUDER

I could think of a clay extruder made of a piston and iron pipe, say 3 inch I.D., with an exit nipple made of half inch pipe to get the extrusions the same cross sectional volume before cutting them and then putting them in the PVC ball roller device to which Charles so kindly linked. It seems to me that using a longer section of PVC pipe for the roller would permit making two balls at the same time, almost halving the work process. The extruder would work like a big syringe and use a hydraulic car jack to force clay through a steel tube. To cut the extruded rod I'd have to make a knife type hinged cut off stop. Extrude rods, cut. Extrude rods, cut. This would ensure equal sized cut cylinders so that equal sized finished balls would be rendered. This may sound complex for an individual but for an SS club it'd work out great, talking 1000s of ammo balls here and selling them to members would increase club revenue but still be cheaper than steel or lead shot.

DENSIFYING THE CLAY BALLS WITH IRON DUST

Chuck's metal shop always has iron filings/grindings around the two grinders and carborundum disk chop saw. Chips from the drill presses and lathe are too long or big. As an alternative, the black mineral magnetite, a form of iron oxide, exists in many sands from rivers, creeks and street build up, and soils. It's dense also. With a magnet and a plastic bag I collected a gallon paint can of these iron dust grindings from the shop. I also collected a few tea cups of magnetite the same way pretty quickly from some sand used for concrete at a construction site and also from a local creek. Run the magnet inside the plastic bag over the floor or sand. When it's charged with lots of black sand, remove the plastic, this dumps the black sand or filings without getting them on the magnet. If it gets on the magnet it's hard to remove or takes more time. This is an old gold panning trick I picked up from Chuck. His abrasive disk chop saw also renders iron dust. I've collected all I can from his last wrot iron project. This stuff is pure steel particles except the magnetite black sand which is a bit less dense but still denser than clay. If mixed with clay any of this iron dust or magnetite sand would increase the density, depending on how much was mixed in. It would also partially prevent the clay from contracting when dried since metal and minerals like magnetite don't contract or expand if wet or dry. The reddish iron oxide formed if iron dust is used while it is still damp and before complete drying would further weld the composite together.

STRENGTHENING THE BALLS SO THEY DON'T BREAK SO EASILY

If I mix ordinary cheap white glue into the clay instead of water or part of the water, I bet it would strengthen it and white glue dries pretty hard sort of like a plastic so the balls could be used over and over. Ordinary flour would also act like a glue. I think egg white would work well as a glue for when it dries it's like glue. Romans used eggs mixed with animal blood other things to make a cement goop to glue stone blocks together to build the Colliseum in Rome in fact in ancient days (!) White glue dries sort of pliable and plastic like which is good to help resist breaking the balls on impact with the catch box fabric back stop. Egg white is protein and dries semi pliable as well. Shot at hard objects such as cans, balls of this mix might break them and might not...I'll have to see. The glue would make the balls stickey to form in the PVC half pipe device Charles referred to so rolling them in a powder first might reduce the tendency to stick. Too much water would also make them stick if glue is used so a semi dry mix would have to be made. I think a good powder would be Portland cement.

ADD PORTLAND CEMENT

I bet adding some portland cement to the clay iron glue mix would make an interesting composite and would harden in 24 hours to within 85% of it's cure. Portland cement takes a month to fully harden but in 24 hours it's about 85% there and would continue to harden as it hydrolizes and uses up more water in the crystailzation process. Possibly substituting Portland cement for clay all together might make a nice hard ball better than the much weaker clay. (!!)

I'm going to experiment this year with this angle of using clay, iron dust, white glue and Portland cement (anhydrous CaCO3) and make an extruder and cutter. Well, Chuck's interested in this non lead non steel low tech concept so he, not me, will inherit the shop work. I will supply him with coffee or fresh lime aid at times of course and my cute Latin smile.

NON LEAD AMMO and NON STEEL AMMO

Steel shot (SS ammo) balls cost a fair amount and used ball bearings are a bit hard to find in consistent diameters. Hex nuts are fine if thick ones are used but they also cost a bit, even cheaper Chinese nuts. Soooo...

Charles, I'm sold on the idea of semi metalic SS ammo that's free of lead. We use pure lead wheel weight metal now, refining it in a large pot Chuck made (see my gallery) and pouring it into Chuck's 8 gang mold with great results but lead is a big toxic and I don't feel good handling it with my bare figers to load our SSs. In USA and parts of Europe they aim to eliminate lead shot in shotgun shells and wheel weights, using steel, so wheel weight lead will get more scarce. I am told that in USA lead is getting harder to get and illegal to refine in that country due to environmentalists or preventing reloaders from securing bullet metal. So I am thinking of using our jeep hydraulic jack as a power source for the 3 inch I.D. steel pipe extruder, a turned steel or even hard wood piston, and a half inch I.D. iron water pipe section as the extrusion nozzle. I will extrude foot long rods and cut them afterward with a knife like (like a paper cutter) stop cutter I will also build (or con Chuck into it once he's knee deep inj the idea). All I'm trying to do is get density and consistency in ammo pellet volume, hence weight consistency. I want to work with fairly large batches because the amount of water, glue, clay and iron dust is all critical to shrinkage therefore size, and of course weight. Careful weight measurements of the ingredients like my chocolate tortes would be important. If I can produce, say, 1000 balls of one batch it would involve a liter of goop if they are 1 cubic centimeter or a tad over, each, approximating a half inch ball. I will adjust the cutting stop so that the volume of the cut cylinders exactly fills the ball roler made of PVC pipe by trial and error and keep the stop set permanently.

AFTER EFFECTS OF SEMI METALIC SS AMMO, THROWING A CURVE

The less dense a projectile is the more it tends to waver from the target especially in wind or breeze. Remember, an SS isn't rifled hence random spins result from release from the pouch and that is a factor in accuracy. Spins produce curves in flight, ask any baseball pitcher (or batter). Since a SS ball spins a bit it can curve like a baseball and the less dense it is the more it would curve, implying inaccuracy. Sponge balls like nerf balls display this principle. Clay by itself when dry isn't particularly dense, less so than stone. It's good for kids BECAUSE it's not so dense and less likely to break something that's not supposed to break. Glass marbles are basically stone (fuzed quartz sand with a little of this and that in it). Marbles are OK ammo. So I think a semi metallic clay ball or even a Portland cement ball composite would work equally to marbles or slightly better if denser yet than glass's specific gravity. Marbles are not uniform in size unless you buy a big bag of 'em all from one source.

COLORING THE CLAY SEMI METALLIC BALLS

I think either mixing white or yellow latex paint into the clay mix would lighten the color enough to provide good visibility "tracer" effects to see where the shot went into a darker background or twilight shooting. Spray painting them with white enamel after they're thoroughly dry would also accomplish the same thing. I've spray painted lead balls to great success...using white spray paint. I spread the balls out on a piece of plywood and spray them so that more than half the ball is painted. Wait a day for it to dry, and roll them randomly and hit them again with spray paint. This does not paint all of the ball but it paints most of it and is good enough to see it in flight. If I'm not satisfied with paint coverage, I roll them again randomly and spray them a third time..that just about covers all of 'em. I'm not about to individually turn each ball exactly 180 degrees to paint the 2nd time! Not for 500 or 1000 lead balls I'm not. The paint wears off eventually at least on part of the ball so repainting them eventually recovers spots missed the first time. I never use much paint, it sticks the balls together, just a light dusting to lighten the color is all that's necessary. Don't move the balls until they're dry or they'll stick together. Be patient.

Just some hints, ideas for alternatives to marbles or solid metalic ammo.


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

Here is an idea that eliminates the extruder, a guided roller to final form a poopoo made of clay into a rod. Cut the rod into equal pieces as I said above and use the PVC roller Charles mentioned made of several PVC sections all together so as to roll more than one ball at a time...say like six or more.

A dollar hack saw suffices to saw PVC and it's thinner than a wood saw. If you don't have a hack saw, buy one...they can be low tech and very cheap and useful for many things. Saw through 15 inches lengthwise of PVC heavy schedule pipe. The thicker the pipe the easier to roll the clay balls without the pipe going whopper jawed and messing up the ball. Maybe cut the unsaved kerf piece lengthwise and make guides to cement to one of the 7.5 inch pieces to keep the two sides from slipping slaunch wise, eh? Make sure that the non kerf side is a bit more than half the tube's diameter. Reason stated below. Save the side that's not been used for kerf, toss the kerf side or use it for a paint stir stick someday or make a bent PVC mini shooter using a hair drier or heat gun to bend it. Saw the saved piece it in two. Using a flat surface and some 90 or so grit emery paper, sand down the saw marks but not to the point of making the half pipe less than half diameter. Trim/clean up any filiments with sand paper. Now you have a 7.5 inch ball roller that I'd bet would work for two balls at once, saving time...dunno, try it. Always think of time efficiency!
And rainy day projects with kids. Add food dye to make rainbow tie die balls?


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Hope you build your gizmo and let us know how it works.

Cheers .... Charles


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## Teach (Jul 5, 2014)

Charles said:


> Hope you build your gizmo and let us know how it works.
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


Hi Charles, check this out. I think a person could easily make one of these out of the appropriate size pipe or even wood with a router to form the channels.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

That looks like it would work ... However, it seems to me that those balls are a bit large for slingshot ammo. Thanks for the link!

Cheers ... Charles


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## leon13 (Oct 4, 2012)

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4L1AAFv2F8#

Hear is one for 10 - 25mm size of round fish food thingies "boili"!!!
Looks really well made 
Cheers


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

leon13 said:


> http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4L1AAFv2F8#
> 
> Hear is one for 10 - 25mm size of round fish food thingies "boili"!!!
> Looks really well made
> Cheers


I bought a set up like this because I wanted to try clay ammo. I still haven't figured out how to get the clay to form correctly. It always wants to stick to either stick to the plastic and make a mess or do nothing. I even have the parts to make the long cylinder of the correct size. I'm sure it has to do with the clay being too wet or too dry...I just can't seem to get it right. If anyone has any advice...please share!!!


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## leon13 (Oct 4, 2012)

Maybe to roll the pre cut rolls in something like clay-dust sand/sawdust ? that will help to create kinda a anti sticking skin ? Would like to give that a try. Can't wait to see your results whit it,oh did you gave the wax mold a try ? 
Cheers


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## Teach (Jul 5, 2014)

Charles said:


> That looks like it would work ... However, it seems to me that those balls are a bit large for slingshot ammo. Thanks for the link!
> 
> Cheers ... Charles


LOL, I did say "appropriate size pipe".


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## Teach (Jul 5, 2014)

GrayWolf said:


> leon13 said:
> 
> 
> > http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=u4L1AAFv2F8#
> ...


GW, try dusting the clay with whole wheat flour before rolling. Seems to work well when using dough. Might be worth a try.


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

leon13 said:


> Maybe to roll the pre cut rolls in something like clay-dust sand/sawdust ? that will help to create kinda a anti sticking skin ? Would like to give that a try. Can't wait to see your results whit it,oh did you gave the wax mold a try ?
> Cheers





Teach said:


> GrayWolf said:
> 
> 
> > leon13 said:
> ...


I saw a video somewhere when I was researching the idea (as I knew someone would have tried it before) and found that they used baking powder to help get the right consistency. I did try it but couldn't get it to work.

I'll try the flour...you are right...it does work for baking.

Leon...I have not tried the wax molds yet. Every time I think I'm getting caught up, another non slingshot related project comes up. I'm hoping to change jobs soon, and if I do, it will give me more time at home to get things done.

Todd


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

Posted the gizmo on our gallery...FDA balls gallery. If the clay mix is too wet it'll stick, if it's too dry it'll crumble..there's a sweet spot in there somewhere.


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## gonene1 (May 24, 2015)

GrayWolf said:


> leon13 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe to roll the pre cut rolls in something like clay-dust sand/sawdust ? that will help to create kinda a anti sticking skin ? Would like to give that a try. Can't wait to see your results whit it,oh did you gave the wax mold a try ?
> ...


Hey
GrayWolf

I am considering buying one of these rollers.

I was wondering if you managed to make it work well or not boili roller after all.

can you recommend it?


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

gonene1 said:


> GrayWolf said:
> 
> 
> > leon13 said:
> ...


For making clay ball ammo....no, I cannot recommend it. I thought I could make it work, but I gave up. If the material was too wet, it would just slide and if it was too dry, the clay would just crumble. I could never find the right consistency.


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## gonene1 (May 24, 2015)

OK thanks I won't buy it.

instead i ordered something much smaller It's Clay bead roller that can make only one ball at a time but was much cheaper...

so...

even if it won't make nice smooth balls it is not such a great loss .

here is the link:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271736315346

anyway, i really liked shooting clay ball ammo (that i hand rolled)

they fly strait accurate, and did not penetrate a graipfruit that grow in my yard, when a steel ball got all the way throw

it's nice to have an accurate relatively safe ammo.

I also don't care about losing the clay balls , so i have no problem "hunting" leaves and twigs and fruits or flowers , just letting the balls fly who knows where. (of course even though it is considered safe i still won't shoot in the direction of people or houses, just into open field)


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

That's an interesting little roller. Although they do not ship to the U.S., please let me know if it works for you. If it does, I may be able to find another source of this style roller.

Good luck...I hope it works.

Todd


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## donkstar (Jan 26, 2015)

i use a bollie roller (homemade uk carp fishing bait) you can role out 20-30 at a time very quick and easy.


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## gonene1 (May 24, 2015)

GrayWolf said:


> That's an interesting little roller. Although they do not ship to the U.S., please let me know if it works for you. If it does, I may be able to find another source of this style roller.
> 
> Good luck...I hope it works.
> 
> Todd


I received it today and tried to roll some clay balls with it.

It sucks !

when i used fresh clay right from the factory box , it smeared it instead to rolling it, and did not make a ball at all.

When i rolled the ball myself and let it dry for 1/2 an hour i did roll it , but did not make a good ball.

The balls i hand rolled looked better and i made them a lot faster then this bead roller.

It might be good for polymer clay , but for regular clay it is worthless!


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## GrayWolf (May 14, 2012)

gonene1 said:


> GrayWolf said:
> 
> 
> > That's an interesting little roller. Although they do not ship to the U.S., please let me know if it works for you. If it does, I may be able to find another source of this style roller.
> ...


That was the problem I was having. I even tried to add different things to help dry it. I tried flour and I tried baking soda and I tried baking powder. I would have been better off adding them together and making a cake for all it did :rofl: .


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## xseven (Jan 5, 2019)

As the ebay links are dead ... was this similar with the machine you tried? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gardner-Neu-Koder-Rollaball-Baitmaster-Boilie-Rolling-Tisch-Alle-Grosen/372661796598


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

xseven said:


> As the ebay links are dead ... was this similar with the machine you tried? https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gardner-Neu-Koder-Rollaball-Baitmaster-Boilie-Rolling-Tisch-Alle-Grosen/372661796598


The original post is 5 years old. Might be a while before you get an answer!


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