# Left and right variance shot control question



## Bmwbob

I am currently shooting an Axiom Ocularis frame with 1/2" TBG bands and 1/4" steel ammo.
I shoot sidearm ("Gangster") OTT style, and draw to an anchor point at the corner of my mouth.
This frame requires a thumb braced hold. I've learned that more or less thumb pressure will cause my shots to go high or low, respectively.
What I have NOT yet discovered is what makes me miss to the right or left.
I'm shooting at a 1-7/8" round spinner from 10 meters (33 feet).
I've looked carefully at centering the ammo in the pouch, pinching ON the ammo, and not twisting the pouch.
I've also looked at my stance: feet parallel to the target.
Maybe I'm expecting too much progress too soon. I'm hitting the spinner about 3 shots out of every 25-30.
I usually get one or two hits fairly soon after starting, then 1 good hit and a couple of nicks later, then I start missing either to the right or left and begin to get frustrated.
Any ideas on what else I should be looking at to Improve my accuracy?
Bob


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## KawKan

Small reactive targets like your spinner are challenging and rewarding when hit.

Keep smacking that thing!

But you may want to add some other targets to your session. A variety of spinners sizes often helps keep the shooters attention.

I like to start an occasional session with a paper, blank except for single vertical and horizontal lines that meet in the center. That center is my aiming point. I take about 10 shots at that point, with no adjustments to correct misses.

The shot pattern is then available for study. There is a record of hits and misses that the spinner won't provide.

Good luck and keep shooting!


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## Grandpa Grumpy

If you anchoring on the corner of your mouth make sure you are not turning/tilting your head from one shot to the next.


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## Bmwbob

Thanks, Kawkan!
I was shooting those "Shoot 'n See" targets that change color at the point of impact.
Of course, those get to be a bit pricey, so after I was consistently hitting in the center 6-8" of the target, I switched to the spinner for economy's sake.
At your suggestion I will return to paper and hope someone can offer a suggestion as to WHY I am shooting to the right and left.
Bob


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## Bmwbob

OK, G.G.!
I hadn't thought of that yet. 
I THINK I am first looking over my reference point at the target, the tilting my head to the right to see down the band to the reference point, and finally moving my frame holding hand to get that picture lined up with the target.
Maybe if I drew first and got my sight line down the band to the reference point and moved that whole "assembly" in line with the target I would see more consistent results. Just a change of sequence.
Does that even make any sense to anyone else?
Thanks!
Bob


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## Apricotless

Hope you sort this, Bob. I'm having the same issue.

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## mattwalt

Great advice from KawKan.

Also with adding thumb pressure may have you canting the frame - which could be causing issues.


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## Bmwbob

Hi, Matt and Apricot!
If my frame holding arm is truly horizontal, then varying thumb pressure should be the factor for controlling the elevation part of aiming, given the use of the same anchor point each time.
I've tried that and it seems to be true. I haven't yet developed muscle memory to automatically employ the right amount of pressure on a consistent basis, but I'm at least aware of the issue and am working on it. Practice, practice, practice!
Thinking back on watching that video where the little Phillipino (?) kid shot clay balls into the open end of a Coke bottle using a natural fork frame; he would draw vertically and anchor against his cheek, then he would rotate his arm down until he aligned with the target, and released.
I guess you're sort of building a "rifle" with the reference point on the frame as your front sight, and the bands drawn back to the anchor point as the "barrel" and sight ramp. If you are looking down the band to your reference point before you bring the target into view, then place the reference point directly on top of your target, absent a sloppy release it seems like you should hit the target.
At the very least, it's an interesting theory.
I'm going to pursue this and Kaw's suggestion and see what that yields.
Stay tuned!
Bob


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## Bob E

When I started I kept my anchor in one spot and unknowingly canted the frame to compensate for varying fork widths. It worked as long as the forks were on the wide side and I didn't switch things up too much. Of course I would have sworn I wasn't canting the frame until I caught a glimpse of my reflection in the microwave door while shooting in the house  Now I'm pretty sure I don't cant, and I still shoot in front of the microwave from time to time to make sure. I use a combination of set up and anchor point to adjust for high and low at 10 yards. Then I use a form of Kentucky windage (fire arms) or gaping (archery) to adjust for distance. I either point the fork towards the target or flip the fork towards the target to move the shot left, and twist & tweak to move the shot right. I used to always twist the pouch for that reason, but lately I've been holding the ammo instead of the pouch (requires big ammo in a small pouch) So I can get a tweak without a twist, and because of the reduced pouch weight I get to decide if I want to shoot a little faster or draw a little lighter.


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## Bmwbob

Hi, Bob E.!
I had a shorter shooting session today. I fired at the spinner 30 times, hitting it solidly twice, and nicking it enough to move it probably 6 or 7 times more.
Then I took the suggestion to put up a paper with crosshairs on it and a dot in the middle. This showed that the majority of my misses are going to the left of the target.
I'm not sure what's causing that, but sometimes I feel like as I release the pouch, I am pushing the frame to the left which would explain that. 
That involuntary movement of my frame holding hand might be a bit tough to eliminate as it is a natural reaction to the release of the tension on the bands.
Does anyone have an idea what to do about this, or am I getting to the point of overthinking this? (Not that it would change my approach if I was!) 
Bob


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## AKA Forgotten

Sounds crazy but try to relax. Use a lighter hold with the hand you hold the slingshot and let the pouch slip from your hold whe releasing


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## skropi

Bmwbob said:


> Hi, Bob E.!
> I had a shorter shooting session today. I fired at the spinner 30 times, hitting it solidly twice, and nicking it enough to move it probably 6 or 7 times more.
> Then I took the suggestion to put up a paper with crosshairs on it and a dot in the middle. This showed that the majority of my misses are going to the left of the target.
> I'm not sure what's causing that, but sometimes I feel like as I release the pouch, I am pushing the frame to the left which would explain that.
> That involuntary movement of my frame holding hand might be a bit tough to eliminate as it is a natural reaction to the release of the tension on the bands.
> Does anyone have an idea what to do about this, or am I getting to the point of overthinking this? (Not that it would change my approach if I was!)
> Bob


If you are torquing the frame on release, then conciously push your whole arm the opposite side. After a while it should resolve itself. 
Keep in mind that even a tiny bit of tension, in whichever muscle, is completely unwanted.


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## Bmwbob

Thanks, guys!
Yes, it seems counterintuitive to use LESS of a grip on the frame, but hey, if it works, fine!
I was thinking that I would try hyperextending my frame holding arm to eliminate the remaining distance that I could push the frame when the band tension was released. But then I realized that I'm not actually pushing the frame further away, but rather "flipping" it with wrist motion.
Shooting will come later today, but I'll try to put some of these suggestions into play and report back.
Bob


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## Grandpa Grumpy

You can try a lanyard (I use a loop of paracord) around your wrist. Tighten it just enough so that when you draw the bands the slingshot will stay in position in your hand without gripping tightly with you fingers. When you grip too tightly you have a tendency to push forward. When you release you flip the slingshot. Also heavy bands make you flip when you release.


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## SJAaz

Bob...Had that same problem, drove me crazy! Make sure to check band alignment before firing. I was guilty of pulling the top fork (ttf) slightly to the left before release. Get those fork tips absolutely vertical and perpendicular to the target. After that it is mostly a smooth release. Keep shooting, you WILL get better!


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## Bmwbob

Thanks, guys!
Grandpa, my Axiom Ocularis came with a para cord lanyard, but I have never socked it down on my wrist. I'll try that! When I go to bigger ammo and heavier bands, like you said, I think that some frame flip will be unavoidable.
S Jazz, I DO shoot better when I carefully align the frame. 
I appreciate all of the tips!
Bob


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## Projectile Pilot

I've been noticing this with myself lately but watch your follow through with your frame hand. A lot of my flyers got closer to the target once I started focusing on that a bit more


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## Cjw

If you're bending your arm that holds the slingshot your going to be all over the place with your shot . And if you're slouching at all that will throw your shots off . If shooting gangster style make sure your not rotating a little counter clockwise with your slingshot.

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## Bill Hays

The following videos show my perspective when shooting a slingshot..... very, very similar to how you aim a shotgun... cheek to bead to target, compensate for lead if it's moving.











This video shows how to aim a slingshot, the more common way






This one shows how to do it with a longer draw


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## Bmwbob

Hi, P.Pilot, CMA and Bill!
Taking things one at a time, in the short time I had to practice today I tried the lanyard bit.
Putting my hand through the loop, I twisted it until it just closed on my wrist, but not too tight.
Then I concentrated on keeping my grip on the frame light, but keeping the forks vertical.
This made another incremental, but definitely noticeable improvement in my accuracy. I actually hit the spinner solidly twice in a row, and nicked it the third shot!
AND, not trying to smash the frame with my grip made a SIGNIFICANT improvement in my comfort! 
I'm not quite sure what was meant by the "follow through" with the frame hand. I didn't pay much attention to what my frame hand was doing after the release today. I'll try to incorporate that tomorrow. What should I look for?
Bill, I shoot OTT at this time. Should I switch to TTF? 
To repeat, I'm shooting 1/4" ammo on straight cut 1/2 TBG bands which are holding up very well.
I probably need to fine tune my stance a bit to get more steady. One thing at a time!
Thanks to all for the great suggestions! It encourages me to see the improvements as I incorporate them into my routine!
Bob


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## Bill Hays

Bmwbob said:


> Hi, P.Pilot, CMA and Bill!
> 
> Bill, I shoot OTT at this time. Should I switch to TTF?
> 
> Bob


The sight picture for OTT is exactly the same as it is for TTF, except with OTT you have a thinner line to look down.

If you're not having any problem with bandslap on your holding hand, or if the left/right deviation isn't to great, then there's no need to switch.... because a person, generally speaking, can be just as accurate one style or the next... it's just a little easier to pick it up TTF (IMHO).


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## skropi

I find that ott and ttf shoot *almost* the same for me, but I can focus on aiming a tiny bit easier with ttf. Not enough of a difference to make me choose one over the other, but it's all personal. 
Just try out the different styles!


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## Court215

I’m a fairly new shooter as well and was kind of running through your checklist and found I was doing a lot of the same. The thing that ties it all together for me is my breathing. If I put all the proper steps together but don’t release on my exhale I typically miss, and typically side to side. When you’re inhaling anything your pointing will naturally start to make a figure 8, this reduces drastically on exhale. Seems obvious but I’m always reminding myself.


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## Projectile Pilot

Follow through in the same sense as other shooting sports, do you hold the point of aim until the ball hits the target (or was supposed to) or do you trail off immediately after the release? Slingshot shooting having so many variables, good follow through is probably just the result of doing a list of things well up until that point but sometimes working backwards pays off


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## skropi

Projectile Pilot said:


> Follow through in the same sense as other shooting sports, do you hold the point of aim until the ball hits the target (or was supposed to) or do you trail off immediately after the release? Slingshot shooting having so many variables, good follow through is probably just the result of doing a list of things well up until that point but sometimes working backwards pays off


I've seen excellent results with both flipping the frame, or rather letting it free to flip itself, and by holding the frame still. 
I personally let the frame almost free, it works for me, but for slingshots, being light to draw, both should work well depending on the shooter and his/her tendency to throw the shot or not.


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## Bmwbob

Thanks, guys, and welcome, Court!
Wow! SO much to think about!
On breathing, I don't know for certain what I've been doing, but the EMT's that picked me up said they found me laying face down with the slingshot in my hand and my lips were blue. Could that be a clue? 
So it probably doesn't matter what the frame hand does after the release unless I'm making some back handed fly swatter move, right?
And I've only experienced hand slap one time and that was with my Chinese frame that uses an exaggerated pinch grip. That is an OTT only frame, and I also had some frame hits with that one. 
Bill's video of his wife shooting TTF showed the center line drawn on the top band for a sight line. I could do that and give it a try sometime later. I think it would be a mistake to switch from OTT at the moment since I'm just beginning to incorporate all of these (valuable and MUCH appreciated!) suggestions. I'm concerned that switching to TTF at this point would change things enough for me that I wouldn't know for sure what to thank or blame. I just began the Axiom with OTT since that was what the last frame used.
Bill's comparison to shooting a rifle or shotgun was helpful to show me that it was OK to tilt my head over to bring my cheek down against the pouch AFTER reaching full draw. One more confusion point out of the way!
Boy, I really hope a lot of other newbies are following along on this thread! SO many issues I'm sure are common to us all are being handled here!
I'm impressed to see the willingness of the more experienced folks to pass along what they've learned so that we novices don't have to waste so much time in basic research! This speaks a LOT to the caliber of folks on the forums!
While simply shooting a slingshot is fun in and of itself, being able to actually HIT what you're aiming at adds another dimension!
Thanks to all, and I'll continue to report back on the results as I try out each new (to me) technique.
Bob


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## ZombieEye

PROBABLE SOLUTION/FIX: After practicing for about 8 months and developing a good shot I suddenly started shooting left consistently for days. I figured that because I was stretching my left shoulder after an injury about a year before the horizontal tension I was applying changed. Which may be true, but I don't think so. Instead what was happening is I didn't really understand how aiming a slingshot works and I had been trying different things trying to get better. The latest thing I was trying, unknowingly messed up my aim. I tried the different things I found on the internet, including "hold strong" and other impractical antidotal advice. None of what I found worked. Finally it dawned on me to try to tilt the fork end of the slingshot forward (I shoot "gangster" style and hold the slingshot with my left hand). Immediately my shot got closer to center. After some practice and variations of my tilt I found the right tilt to hit the target consistently. So if you shoot gangster style and shooting left then tilt your slingshot forward and if you are shooting right tilt the fork of the slingshot back towards you. Don't go extreme, just little variations at a time till you find the sweet spot. This certainly doesn't void the need to try your best to hold a steady grip, which I'm sure develops over time, but instead compliments it.

I think what I found is that our bodies, grip and perspective vary and we need to compensate for that to get the right precision required to shoot the slingshot. I learned that our body is a complete aiming and firing mechanism for shooting slingshots and we have to control a lot more for this than shooting a rifle.


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## AKA Forgotten

Good to hear you're on the mend and being able to enjoy shooting again. Yes I definately found at the beginning that slingshot is a lot more complex than a rifle


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