# Tying or no-tie,which you guys prefer?Why?



## GZK-CHINA (Apr 24, 2014)

Addicts in China are always getting lazy,almost every slingshot has a corresponding no-tie version(even 2 or more).But it seems that ,most of western addicts insist on tying their band set to the tip.Is this just the difference in usage,or any other reason I don't know,lol.





  








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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I shoot an SPS almost exclusively with looped 20/40 tubes. I hate tying bands on the forks.

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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Having a no-tie setup is a bit of a complication. Simple, hand made forks do not in general have a provision for no-tie. As I was growing up, no one had a no-tie setup. The first such arrangement I ever saw was a Whamo, with the double saw cuts in each fork. Since most homemade slingshots at that time were just forked sticks, no one wanted to weaken the forks by cutting into them.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Royleonard (Jun 30, 2017)

Whatever works on some I like tie on some I like no tie on naturals I like tie only.


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## Samurai Samoht (Apr 6, 2013)

I personally gravitate towards slingshots that have a no tie setup. ie. Wingshooters Rotating Head slingshots, Flip Clips, Ocularis Plugs, Pocket Predator Clips etc. The tying option isn't hard but I find the no tie option even easier.


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## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

Not a lot of people can make them very well, if at all and no one wants to jack up a frame that is that far along. I even quit doing band grooves quite a while back for that very reason.


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## Bugar (Dec 24, 2009)

I just don't like the look of clips, never had any, just do not like the look, and would rather tie mine, or use looped, but do have a DANKUNG with ball ends that I like, personal thing I guess.


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

Call me old fashion, but I like tying them on. I've never got popped untill I started using no tie rigs. It hurts. Not that I don't still like them, but I just feel safer tying them on. Wrap and tuck is so simple, needs no special tools and can be done anywhere.


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## Ukprelude (Apr 17, 2016)

I got flip clips with my scout and only used them for a few days then got shot of them and tied them on, for me I think I trust my tying more than a little clip. I know there will be some very secure clips and clamps out there on forks but I can't help thinking if I clamped to tight the bands could snap when I'm drawing back and if they are too loose bands could slip out. I think for me tying with some good old rubber is a happy medium. Maybe it's only because I've only ever used flip clips and not tried any other clip set up, I don't know. Interested how everyone else feels and if anyone has ever had any clip failures?

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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Great Question! That was a main point I've brought out on a couple of posts. Tying bands on is a bit archaic to say the most or least. Maybe some can trust their ties to hold but not me, not yet. However, I have also learned that I can not trust cheap plastic clips to hold either. Thus far, I've learned that the Pocket Predator Pro Clips will hold and can be trusted. We're not in the dark ages anymore.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Ties. Rubber bands for me. Cheap, easy to change, never fail and work well on naturals.


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## GZK-CHINA (Apr 24, 2014)

Charles said:


> Having a no-tie setup is a bit of a complication. Simple, hand made forks do not in general have a provision for no-tie. As I was growing up, no one had a no-tie setup. The first such arrangement I ever saw was a Whamo, with the double saw cuts in each fork. Since most homemade slingshots at that time were just forked sticks, no one wanted to weaken the forks by cutting into them.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


No-tie will weaken wood forks,maybe it's right.Well ,when the frame material become metal(such as stainless steel,titanium alloy etc.),the problem of strength seems to be gone.In fact,most of China shooting rookies can not tie the band well, then frame makers offer more and more no-tie options.I think you guys are better at DIY,that makes sense,right?





  








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## Tremoside (Jul 17, 2013)

For various purposes various solutions will fit.

There is something classic and elegant in a traditional wrap and tuck method that is distrorted by all these features.

I'm absolutely loving easy and no-tie solutions! I use them daily, just as wrap and tuck.

BTW wrap and tuck can be just as easy with some practice and finger dexterity.


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

I always tie. Just feels safer and more secure to me-but then I'm an old timer anyway!


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## MonRiver (Sep 10, 2017)

I'm using Flip Clips right now, but I plan on tying on the bandset to give it a try.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

I really like top slots, and I like to use a small piece of dankung Style tubing to lock them in instead of rolling the end.

With that said I don't think I'll be able to incorporate them into my Torpedo PFS frames until I have the expertise and tools to work with aluminum or possibly G10.

I also don't know if anything anything will feel as secure to me as rubber ties. With 6 wraps using the tongue tuck method I can pull straight away from the end of the frame without any possibility of failure. Even on my Torpedoes which have no band grooves. (Wrap naked fork once, lay band on wrap, wrap twice, fold tongue up, wrap once, lay string loop, wrap twice, pull through)


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

inconvenience said:


> I really like top slots, and I like to use a small piece of dankung Style tubing to lock them in instead of rolling the end.
> 
> With that said I don't think I'll be able to incorporate them into my Torpedo PFS frames until I have the expertise and tools to work with aluminum or possibly G10.


That is my issue. Making naturals, I am limited in my skills, tools and confidence in trying slots or similar methods. Plus, I have no squabbles with using or the looks of Wrap & Tuck.

Gypsy Tabs are always an option and one I will probably incorporate on some of the frames I want to use for tubes.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

brucered said:


> inconvenience said:
> 
> 
> > I really like top slots, and I like to use a small piece of dankung Style tubing to lock them in instead of rolling the end.
> ...


Your natties are so lovely if you do tabs I think you should use lashing to secure them.


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## SlingNerd (Mar 15, 2017)

GZK-CHINA said:


> No-tie will weaken wood forks,maybe it's right.Well ,when the frame material become metal(such as stainless steel,titanium alloy etc.),the problem of strength seems to be gone.In fact,most of China shooting rookies can not tie the band well, then frame makers offer more and more no-tie options.I think you guys are better at DIY,that makes sense,right?


GZK that's a very interesting little frame with its tiny band slots. Id like to see it in action! Often I lament not being able to handle slingshots before purchasing them.. shame!

I wrap and tuck, and have for years. I DO have flipclips (and they are lovely) but the old school has proven to be the better school for me, and never have I had a slip. It's second nature by now and I can do it fast enough that it's not a bother. I use a small loop of string to pull the end of my wrap under itself. The result is plenty strong!


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

It really isn't about can I tie bands on the forks to hold. Not when I buy slingshots with the bands already tied on and after 50-100 shots or so they come lose or untied at the forks. If slingshot makers can't tie them to hold, I certainly am going to look for other no tie options to use. Sure I can tie bands on but all the time I'm wondering if they are going to hold. But I know I don't need to worry when I use a no tie option. I shot a slingshot this morning and noticed that one of the tie on one of the bands was coming lose. On further inspection, I found that the other band was also on its way to coming untied. Took them both off and will get them tied back on after breakfast. Nice slingshot but is a tie on frame only with no sufficient width to drill for PP Pro Clips. Might end up putting it on the for sale or for trade posts. I'm beginning to more than ever recognize that there is no valid reason to have a slingshot that requires the bands to be tied on. In the meantime back to shooting the PP Python with Pro Clips which have never slipped since I got it.

I know there are those died in the wool old school shooters who will object but I think each of us can be allowed to have our own preferences without demanding that everyone comply to our personal way of thinking and doing things.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Jolly Roger said:


> I know there are those died in the wool old school shooters who will object but I think each of us can be allowed to have our own preferences without demanding that everyone comply to our personal way of thinking and doing things.


I don't think anyone has demanded people comply with how they tie, wrap, shoot or attach bands and pouches. Everyone who had been discussing it has just been offering their view and experience.

I don't really care too much want others shoot or how they attach stuff, it doesn't affect me one bit. What I do get defensive over sometimes is, when you try to pursuad readers that certain proven attachment methods don't work or are unsafe. Not once have I ever stated people 'must use' Wrap & Tuck for this reason or that and not once I have dismissed no-tie methods or went out of my way to slam any maker of them or any method

Shoot what you like and like what you shoot.


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## Royleonard (Jun 30, 2017)

Shoot what you like and like what you shoot. 
You definitely got a that correct,and just cause you like it doesn't mean it's the only way!


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Depends on the frame. I usually tie on.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I suppose there is an advantage to tying bands if you're inclined to enjoy " Tying One On" every now and then. Is that where the old saying comes from? Perhaps?


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I've never had bands come loose that I've tied properly. So that's the least of my concerns.

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## VAshooter (Feb 10, 2015)

I am lazy enough so that I would love to have a slingshot with clips that allowed me to securely attach my bands easily. But to me, the most important feature of a slingshot is how it fits my hand when I'm shooting it and the slingshot that I shoot every day, the one that feels the most comfortable in my hand, does not have clips so I am forced to wrap and tuck.

Tremoside mentioned finger dexterity and I can say with certainty that I have none of that. I've watched Nathan Masters film on wrap and tuck and I admit, he sure makes it look easy but for me it's a real fight to get the bands attached properly. I use a bent paper clip to pull the end through. I've never successfully been able to slip the band off my fingernail like he does. I have a big bag of rubber bands that I use to wrap with. Those little strips that Simpleshot sends don't work for me but big office rubber bands work great.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

VAShooter: It is a shame that some of the more beautiful hand friendly slingshots are not offered with no tie band attachments. I have found that the Pocket Predator slingshots do fit my hand very well. They are not too big as some have experienced and reported. When that favorite form fitting slingshot is found and forces us to tie the bands on there are a few options available.

1. Ask the slingshot maker or some other slingshot maker to make one that uses a no tie band attachment method.

2. Drill and add Pro Clips to that existing slingshot.

3. Make one yourself based on the favorite design. Which can be a bit of a challenge for those who are not experienced craftsman.

4. Buy one that already has Pro Clips on it or some other non plastic, non breakable band attachment method.

5. Have one of the guys who brag about never having a band slip or come untied tie them on for you.

Yes there are those who are avid wrap and tuckers who insist that since it is so easy for them to pull off (pun intended) that you, me and everyone else who shoots slingshots should just suck it up and learn to tie bands on. I will never forget calling SimpleShot to order a Scout just to see what all the fuss is about and to get my first glimpse of the Flip Clips only to have the salesman tell me that I did not need a Scout but instead that I needed to learn to tie bands on my slingshots.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Jolly Roger said:


> 5. Have one of the guys who brag about never having a band slip or come untied tie them on for you.


I will offer my band tieing services free to anyone in the world. Simply send me your frames and bands, I'll supply the rubber to attach and ship it back to you. Cover postage to me, ship it in a box with a prepaid return shipping label and I'll do the rest.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

brucered said:


> Jolly Roger said:
> 
> 
> > 5. Have one of the guys who brag about never having a band slip or come untied tie them on for you.
> ...


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

No brag just fact. Never had bands slip off the forks that were tied properly. It's not rocket science tying bands on.

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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Much simpler to just use Pro Clips or some other dependable no tie band attachment.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

To me not wanting to learn to tie bands on correctly is like buying a gun but you don't want to learn how to load it or clean it. It's part of the slingshot experience.

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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Jolly Roger said:


> Much simpler to just use Pro Clips or some other dependable no tie band attachment.


Even Bill uses Wrap and Tuck, or am I wrong in that. It was his w&t that I used to demonstrate in my how-to video and the method I have been using since I saw it.

Wanting to use clips is fine, but it shouldn't be the be-all-end-all and end there. As stated above, it's about the entire process of Slingshots, some history, experience.

I feel sorry for anyone, yourself included, who are not open minded enough to consider the other methods of attaching bands are not acceptable and dismissed immediately.

Don't put all your eggs in one basket....a little variety is nice and there is room to expand into other methods. It will also help avoid disappointment if and when they stop making them or they break in the field.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

VAshooter said:


> I am lazy enough so that I would love to have a slingshot with clips that allowed me to securely attach my bands easily.....


Check our Alex's FlatCat designs. He has a TTF tube and OTT Flats, that use no-tie at the pouch as well as the fork. About $85usd each, G10 and a super fun to deal with. I have purchased both and love them each for what they do.

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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If we shoot from 10 feet instead of 10 meters we don't need bands. We can just throw the slingshot at the target.

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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Cjw said:


> If we shoot from 10 feet instead of 10 meters we don't need bands. We can just throw the slingshot at the target.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Don't get me started on that....I did it once on here, there is video proof somewhere and it's harder than it looks. But I think I was doing it from 33'.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Not tying bands on is like not wanting to learn how to load your firearm....No not tying bands on is like not wanting to have a muzzle loader rifle but instead making a choice to have a firearm that fires a cartridge instead. Or akin to choosing to buy your ammunition instead of reloading it yourself.

I have a Flat Cat OTT as pictured above on order to be shipped with the next batch made.

Nothing to break on the Alley Cat or Flat Cat Pro. Another good option is the Ocularis plugs or a hole in the forks with a plug holding the bands as suggested by A+ for the Kit Fox.

Nice thing about the Pro Clips, the A+ slot on the Wasp and Cyclop as well as a few others is that they will not break or come untied in the field. Yes we know that there are plastic no tie clips that will break and you'll need to carry extra clips wherever you go or tie one one. But why not go with something proven not to break.

Yes even Bill ties bands on but Bill also provides his customers (as does SimpleShot and many others) with a solution to band tying. The options are there so why not use them. We've long past gotten over driving cars without power steering and power brakes and many have even progressed past insisting on a manual transmission opting for an automatic.

We don't ridicule the rifle shooter who chooses to use a scope instead of iron sights either. If tying bands on were't becoming a thing of the past with new slingshot shooters there would not be so many slingshot makers coming up with innovative no tie band attachments. In fact, I think that more people will be attracted to slingshot shooting when they find out they will not have to learn to tie bands on the forks. I really doubt anyone is going to halt the progress in design that has been happening.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If you take away his scope and he can hit beans with iron sites is he really a rifle shooter.?

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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

I choose not to use them on some frames. Same as I choose to listen to music on vinyl, cook over charcoal and shave with a single bladed razor, brush and puck of soap.

And to be clear, you Jolly Roger are the one ridiculing people for not using clips or no tie attachments methods.

I have and will continue to say, both methods are valid. And yet you continue to put tied frames down and are now stating that makers haven't completed their job if they don't include a lanyard hole, which is about the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Thanks Bruce, I appreciate the king words. You are always so full of compliments. Your comments do inspire me.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

This post is a waste of time. Going back to shooting one of my SPS's and don't have to worry about tying, flip clips, pro clips. Just slip them on and shoot. Looped tubes for me.

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## Ukprelude (Apr 17, 2016)

brucered said:


> Cjw said:
> 
> 
> > If we shoot from 10 feet instead of 10 meters we don't need bands. We can just throw the slingshot at the target.
> ...


Wahahaha I remember that! That made my week haha 

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## VAshooter (Feb 10, 2015)

I have a General II on order from Dankung so when it comes in I'll get to try loops that just slip on. The propulsion system sounds great but we'll have to see how comfortable the slingshot is. If it really fits my hand a new world of tubes will open for me. No clips, no ties just hook up and go.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

When I first started out shooting slingshots this past spring, I ordered slingshots with tubes so I would not have to tie bands on. As mentioned above, bands are simple to install. I shot bands for several months before reading of the advantages of flat bands. Actually, I broke a half dozen sets of cheap Chinese tubes and wanted to see if bads suited me better. I liked them but found that even bands tied on by the maker cannot be trusted to stay tied. Just my personal experience, I know that some have already stated that they are experts at tying bands. I ordered a hammer with the ocularis plugs and have really enjoyed shooting it. I have had the balls slip out of the plugs and have to keep a close watch on that.

As I bought a few tie the bands on slingshots I decided I'd prefer a slingshot with no tie options that were foolproof. I ordered the Pocket Predator Side Shooter and Ranger Tac with no tie band attachments. They are not the same as the Pro Clips and hold secure and stay tight. I now have the slingshot Bill sent me with the Pro Clips with the sight built in. Both of these band attachment methods have solved my band tying dilemma.

I still shoot my A+ Kit Fox with big tubes on it. They won't break like the Chinese tubes do and are easy to replace. That frame even allows me to attach bands through the tube hole with a rubber plug making it a very versatile slingshot. Just can't attach the cheap Chinese tubes.

The Alley Cat is designed for looped tubes but I have been shooting it with doubled flat bands and just found on eBay the flat bands tied to a short loop of tube that will allow me to attach them to the Alley Cat. They are scheduled to arrive today or Monday.

OOak Forge has a neat looking slingshot that has a flat band attachment method that will hold without the fuss and worry of tying bands on the forks. That system is also all metal. Just two screws through a small metal plate into the threaded hole in the frame. No plastic to break even if they are tightened down with the thumb screw.

I've really come to appreciate those slingshot makers who offer the no tie band attachment methods. I fail to see any advantage or solid reasoning for buying a slingshot that forces me to have no option but to tie the bands on the forks. Their keeping up with the times is duly noted.

I'm ordering additional Pro Clips to install on those tie only slingshots that I have, or will be trading them off on the forum for sale or trade section.

.

And just for Bruce, I've had to drill a lanyard hole in a couple of slingshots to finish the job.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Jolly Roger said:


> .
> And just for Bruce, I've had to drill a lanyard hole in a couple of slingshots to finish the job.


Now you just have to get a partial refund from those makers as they didn't finish the job.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Are you getting Royalties for pushing Bill Hays pro clips? Some of us have no problem tying flat bands. With your way of thinking everyone should shoot Compound bows because recurves are not the latest greatest. Nobody should camp in a tent when you can take a motorhome. I guess nobody should shoot naturals because their old school. Use what you want and will use what we want. Nobody gives a rats A-s

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## VAshooter (Feb 10, 2015)

Speaking of rats.....My friends are always kidding me because I want a rat farm. Throw down some grain, a few pieces of plywood so they can build nests and I'll have a perfect place to shoot in the evening when they come out to play. It's hard on the rats but it makes my inner hunting urge very happy.


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## S.C.Daniel (Nov 7, 2017)

I read about some Ring shooters that Charles made. I made a Natural and cemented in my rings... it has always shot very well. I have doubled 1745s on it. My tubes are shot, and I haven't made replacements yet. Lately I've been shooting OTT bands on a PFS and several small naturals. I've tried tubes on my PFS but haven't been satisfied with them. Probably my sorry craftsmanship.


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