# Alien Menace prototype



## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

I shot 29 rounds of 5/16 steel at an 8inX10in catch box holding the 4cm target Bill sent me with the Alien Menace prototype at 21 ft seated in a sturdy folding chair. I put duct tape on the floor so my feet would be in the same position for each shot. I got one hit in the first 19 shots when I noticed a tear at the upper band at the pouch. I thought what the heck and took another shot, a hit! Changing the bandset took maybe a minute. When I sat back down the next two shots were hits. So 4 out of 29. If anyone is mainly looking for accuracy, I can't recommend this slingshot enough. When I was into air rifles I fell into the speed/ power trap. Oh, you could get both, but for big (to me) bucks. Fork hits with this slingshot are next to if not completely impossible as they rotate. I shoot 25-35 shots a day. If a 73 year old geezer can do it, anyone ( unless they're blind or too young) can. Oh, and I took the advice of others and put a blanket behind the catch box, so no more holes in the wall. I bought the catch box from Amazon (China) and it's advertised as being collapsible. Unless you have a elf in your house small enough to tie the tiny pieces of ribbon, forget collapse. I used zip ties. Bill, you've got a winner and I hope you sell a bunch of these. I know 4 out of 29 ain't squat, but it's a start and I'm pumped. Thanks again. 
Randy Wells


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm glad you made the decision to stick with it . You will be an inspiration to others new to the sport .You got to love Bill Hays ! :bowdown:


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## Slingshot Evangelist (Dec 10, 2018)

Way to go. I guess they just don't get any better than Bill Hays. He could be called the Grand Master of Slingshot Shooting. A living legend. I have a good friend who insist that a rotating head on a slingshot would be the only way to go. He is not a slingshot shooter but he is somewhat of the inventive type and likes to come up with the new and improved version of everything he grabs hold of.

I'll be watching the Pocket Predator website for the Alien Menace to be available for sale. Wonder what other new designs will be forth coming as well?

I like that duct tape on the floor idea for getting your stance just right for each and every shot. Makes a lot of sense.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> I shot 29 rounds of 5/16 steel at an 8inX10in catch box holding the 4cm target Bill sent me with the Alien Menace prototype at 21 ft seated in a sturdy folding chair. I put duct tape on the floor so my feet would be in the same position for each shot. I got one hit in the first 19 shots when I noticed a tear at the upper band at the pouch. I thought what the heck and took another shot, a hit! Changing the bandset took maybe a minute. When I sat back down the next two shots were hits. So 4 out of 29. If anyone is mainly looking for accuracy, I can't recommend this slingshot enough. When I was into air rifles I fell into the speed/ power trap. Oh, you could get both, but for big (to me) bucks. Fork hits with this slingshot are next to if not completely impossible as they rotate. I shoot 25-35 shots a day. If a 73 year old geezer can do it, anyone ( unless they're blind or too young) can. Oh, and I took the advice of others and put a blanket behind the catch box, so no more holes in the wall. I bought the catch box from Amazon (China) and it's advertised as being collapsible. Unless you have a elf in your house small enough to tie the tiny pieces of ribbon, forget collapse. I used zip ties. Bill, you've got a winner and I hope you sell a bunch of these. I know 4 out of 29 ain't squat, but it's a start and I'm pumped. Thanks again.
> Randy Wells


You're to kind Randy... I'm sure there'd be many on the forum that would help as much if not more, if they had the resources.

And like I said before, one good reason I have the resources is because of the help I received in the beginning as well....

So Randy, when you get to expert level... it'll be your turn to pass it along, giving your insights, advice and support to newbies who could use it!


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

I’m glad you stuck with it Randy You will definitely encourage others to hang in there.


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

It's really not that hard to get hooked is it? Welcome to the addiction.


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## Covert5 (Feb 7, 2018)

We are all glad you stayed and you found the right slingshot for you! Before you know it, you will be increasing your distance and then trying trick shots. The addiction is real! Lol


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Randroid said:
> 
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> > I shot 29 rounds of 5/16 steel at an 8inX10in catch box holding the 4cm target Bill sent me with the Alien Menace prototype at 21 ft seated in a sturdy folding chair. I put duct tape on the floor so my feet would be in the same position for each shot. I got one hit in the first 19 shots when I noticed a tear at the upper band at the pouch. I thought what the heck and took another shot, a hit! Changing the bandset took maybe a minute. When I sat back down the next two shots were hits. So 4 out of 29. If anyone is mainly looking for accuracy, I can't recommend this slingshot enough. When I was into air rifles I fell into the speed/ power trap. Oh, you could get both, but for big (to me) bucks. Fork hits with this slingshot are next to if not completely impossible as they rotate. I shoot 25-35 shots a day. If a 73 year old geezer can do it, anyone ( unless they're blind or too young) can. Oh, and I took the advice of others and put a blanket behind the catch box, so no more holes in the wall. I bought the catch box from Amazon (China) and it's advertised as being collapsible. Unless you have a elf in your house small enough to tie the tiny pieces of ribbon, forget collapse. I used zip ties. Bill, you've got a winner and I hope you sell a bunch of these. I know 4 out of 29 ain't squat, but it's a start and I'm pumped. Thanks again.
> ...


I realize you are busy so I don't expect an answer very soon. Since I'M 73 and the clock is ticking, the max distance I can shoot in my apartment is 26 feet. Proportionally,what size target should I practice on at 26 ft. I know I'm getting ahead of myself as I haven't mastered your 4cm one yet, but like I said: tick tock, tick tock. Thanks


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> Bill Hays said:
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If I were at 26' then I would expect myself to hit a 20mm or about 0.75" target maybe 75 to 90% of the time.... but we're putting the horse before the cart now.

Remember, it's about the journey, not the destination.... but it's good to have measurable progress and achievable waypoints along the way.

You've been shooting a slingshot for a very short amount of time, so I'd expect you not to be shooting at an expert level yet... and that's the thing, it's not really about shooting as well or better than a particular person... it's more about challenging yourself to be better and better day by day, improving, getting sharper, increasing confidence, improving your perception of self.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


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I hear ya Bill. Yesterday I tried a 50 shot, no rest session. Got 7 hits in the first 25 or so, then...zilch. Most of the misses were to the left of the spinner. I'm going to cut back to 25- 30 today.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> I hear ya Bill. Yesterday I tried a 50 shot, no rest session. Got 7 hits in the first 25 or so, then...zilch. Most of the misses were to the left of the spinner. I'm going to cut back to 25- 30 today.


You might try shooting off the "bench" for about half the shots and the other half free hold... That may reinforce the aiming principles... after all, you never want to end on a miss!


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Randroid said:
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> > I hear ya Bill. Yesterday I tried a 50 shot, no rest session. Got 7 hits in the first 25 or so, then...zilch. Most of the misses were to the left of the spinner. I'm going to cut back to 25- 30 today.
> ...


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> Bill Hays said:
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Sounds like a plan! :thumbsup:


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Randroid said:
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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Should read I did not finish today's session on be a miss.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes, it's better to have the thumb in line with the bands, pointed straight at the target... However, so long as you're holding the ball in the pouch by the sides of the ball, and not in front of the ball, and the release is even with no thumb or finger tweaking of the pouch... everything in line, thumb, wrist, forearm, elbow and shoulder... head cocked to the side enough to put the dominant eye dead in line over the bands.

Anyway, 'nuff said, you already got the idea!


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Am no longer shooting the Alien Menace prototype to the left. Made some changes to: gripping the pouch, draw technique, and anchor point. Shot 40 5/16 steel and made improvement over yesterday. I won't cite any numbers because after spending several years on airgun forums I realized some people will make outrageous claims about their marksmanship. One guy even suggested jokingly ? to shoot at a close distance and post the target on the forum with a further distance written on it. As I believe Bill Hays said, it's about improvement, not being " better" than others.


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## Covert5 (Feb 7, 2018)

That's right! Gotta be honest with yourself. We are not here to impress, we are here to learn from each other, support one another, and enjoy the camaraderie amongst each other in this great forum!

Sling On my brother!


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Alright Randy!

Your strength, confidence and accuracy are all improving... super, man.... that's what it's all about!


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Alright Randy!
> Your strength, confidence and accuracy are all improving... super, man.... that's what it's all about!





Bill Hays said:


> Alright Randy!
> Your strength, confidence and accuracy are all improving... super, man.... that's wh at it's all about!


 After today's session of shooting the Alien Menace prototype I noticed that when the holding hand is held at arm's length and as vertical as possible, the top section of the fork ( the one that's bent to hold the band with the aiming line) is not as parallel to the frame as the lower piece. I hope I'M making sense. In other words it sticks out further from the handle than does the bottom one. Is this " normal" ?


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> Bill Hays said:
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> > Alright Randy!
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On that particular slingshot you're going to have a touch of misalignment... I bent the rods with my fingers to fit the angle and size I wanted... since no precision jig was used, it's going to be a tiny amount off kilter.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Randroid said:
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You bent it....with....your.....fingers..... You made my day Bill! And also made me feel better for starting to excersise ????


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

So being a "tiny bit off kilter" won't affect accuracy ?


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> So being a "tiny bit off kilter" won't affect accuracy ?


Nah, you should be fine... I bench tested it before sending it out. The bands and width used should fit a 30" draw perfectly to hit a target (light a match) at 22 feet. I bent the delta shape because it was originally shooting way to low for your draw length... now it shoots dead on, just make sure top and bottom bands line up under your eye, and that it's vertical... it's totally match lighting capable


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Randroid said:
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 The odds are I won't live long enough to have the necessary skill to light a match at any distance. Hahahaha. But I won't stop practicing.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

"You bent it....with....your.....fingers..... You made my day Bill! And also made me feel better for starting to excersise "

I've done a fair amount of work in the hand, grip and strength area... mainly to use in Jujitsu... but the same exercises and strengths carry over to many other things as well, like slingshot shooting for example.

If you really are serious about getting stronger, maybe even stronger than you thought possible... it's a good idea to work with the right exercise tools.

David Horne from England is a good resource... Here's a couple things I recommend to get you started:

http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/shop.html#thumbscrew

http://www.davidhorne-gripmaster.com/shop.html#vulcan

These are tools that can take you from a "90 pound weakling" grip strength-wise to having that 0.1% strength that makes everything so much easier.


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## scouser (Jul 18, 2017)

Wow! It might be useful to strenghten my left hand for double bass playing too.  As a total newbie I am suffering a lot with pressing the strings appropriately. Especially with my pinkie.



Bill Hays said:


> "You bent it....with....your.....fingers..... You made my day Bill! And also made me feel better for starting to excersise "
> 
> I've done a fair amount of work in the hand, grip and strength area... mainly to use in Jujitsu... but the same exercises and strengths carry over to many other things as well, like slingshot shooting for example.
> If you really are serious about getting stronger, maybe even stronger than you thought possible... it's a good idea to work with the right exercise tools.
> ...


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Today:30 shots,no fork hits


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## VAshooter (Feb 10, 2015)

I am a little older than you Randroid as are many of the forum members. Everyone brings a different level of experience and most progress toward "expert" level differently. The important thing is that you enjoy the experience of shooting. You have one of the best teachers available advising you and good equipment to work with so I'd say you are off to a great start.

Shoot well and enjoy yourself.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

I shoot the slingshot for something to do and improve upon.I'm not interested in lighting matches or cutting cards. I have no illusion of becoming an "expert", whatever that means. I practice the clarinet and have the same attitude. No doubt Bill Hays is one of, if not the best shooter on the planet.


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## VAshooter (Feb 10, 2015)

Randroid said:


> I shoot the slingshot for something to do and improve upon.I'm not interested in lighting matches or cutting cards. I have no illusion of becoming an "expert", whatever that means. I practice the clarinet and have the same attitude. No doubt Bill Hays is one of, if not the best shooter on the planet.


You are a perceptive fellow with a firm grasp on reality.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Is anyone else (besides Bill Hays) shooting this slingshot ? If so, I'd like to Know their thoughts and technique. Today I stopped sitting in a chair, moved from 21 ft to 27 ft ( the farthest I can shoot in my apartment), and moved the anchor point from the corner of my mouth to under the right eye.Also used a back brace purchased from Amazon that pulls the shoulders back somewhat. Shot 30 rounds of 5/16 steel and felt good about the session.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

When this frame goes into production, come Spring, I will be getting one for sure!
Now that you mentioned your anchor point, let me ask you. How exactly do you anchor at corner of your mouth? The thumb at corner of your mouth? If this is the case, then I am almost certain that when you get fork hits, you hit the top fork. This anchor is very low, and will tend to have a very elevated point of impact. Do you lean your head downwards a lot, so as to compensate? 
I would suggest trying to anchor your thumbnail, firmly under your cheekbone. As an anchor point it is more consistent, and also slightly higher, which should straighten things a bit. 
We are all different though, so what I said, maybe doesnt apply to your specific anatomy/needs, but its worth it to check it out.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Yeah, I was getting fork hits with the thumb at the corner of the mouth. And you're right, thumb under the eye pressed against the cheekbone is definitely more consistent. It's easy to shoot and I too will buy a new one when they become available.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Well,I'm still at it shooting 30 rounds of 5/16 steel daily from 27 ft in my apartment. Fork hits are a thing of the past.I am consistent. I miss the 4cm target most of the time.


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## hoggy (Apr 17, 2017)

glad to hear that you're progressing nicely Randroid.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

I usually don't post unless what I consider significant progress (to me)has been made. Shot the usual 30 rounds of 5/16 steel from 27 ft,( the max distance in my apartment) standing, no back brace, and got the most hits so far. I also got a first ever : 3 hits in a row. Not a big deal to the accomplished shooter, but it was to me. If a 73year old hunchback Jarhead can do it... keep practicing, every day.


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

Great progress Randy! Looking forward to your card-cut video.

Are you able to post a photo of the Alien Menace prototype?


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

There won't be any card cut video. I'm not too tech oriented, but I 'll give it a shot. Bill could probably provide a better photo of the Alien Menace prototype.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

How's this ?


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> I usually don't post unless what I consider significant progress (to me)has been made. Shot the usual 30 rounds of 5/16 steel from 27 ft,( the max distance in my apartment) standing, no back brace, and got the most hits so far. I also got a first ever : 3 hits in a row. Not a big deal to the accomplished shooter, but it was to me. If a 73year old hunchback Jarhead can do it... keep practicing, every day.


Total thumbs up Randy!

Keep at it, and you just might surprise yourself in a short while


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

Thanks,Bill.


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

Thanks for the photo, Randy - very cool!


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

You're really improving! There's nothing better than getting multiple hits in a row. I usually try to finish up a shooting session with one, and I'll even walk within a few paces of the can to get a satisfying hit before packing it in. Keep us posted!


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

After shooting hundreds of 5/16 steel through the Alien Menace prototype, the only negative thing about it is after awhile (I haven't counted the number of rounds)the small tubes used to secure the bands to the fork start to creep out, which in turn allows the bands to move and the aiming line to move. I've reset the bands three or four times.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> After shooting hundreds of 5/16 steel through the Alien Menace prototype, the only negative thing about it is after awhile (I haven't counted the number of rounds)the small tubes used to secure the bands to the fork start to creep out, which in turn allows the bands to move and the aiming line to move. I've reset the bands three or four times.


That is actually my major reason I like tying bands on better than the slot... less band creep.

BUT, like just about everything else, there is a simple fix...

Cut a little off the end of an old bandset... place it against the bottom of the bandset to be stretched and placed in the slot, making it thicker... stretch it all out together, place in the slot, put in the piece of tube in the hole, pull it all tight... and you'll have a lot less slippage.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

I will do that if my fix doesn't work which was removing the short , orange rods from two of your Smart Ties, dipping them in alcohol, and inserting them into the tubes after resetting the bands. They fit perfectly and I'll let you know how it works out.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

I didn't feel like practicing today, but,of course, did anyway. First, to Bill, since inserting the small orange rods from your Smart Ties into the tubes the bands are wrapped around, there has been no band creep after 122 rounds. Of course, like everything else, that could change. Also, had the best day ever percentage wise hits. I know some people say don't be concerned with number or percentage of hits, but I guess I'm just too spiritually immature to grasp that. Some say hit or miss,it doesn't matter. I say it does and it doesn't. Reminds me of the glass of water that is either half full or half empty. It's both !


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

Go Randy Go! Great to follow your progress.


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## Randroid (Sep 26, 2018)

I'm still here.Still shooting the Alien Menace prototype. Last week I discovered that shooting outdoors from a measured 33 ft @ 45-50 degrees into a 5-10 mph wind is a far cry from shooting indoors at 26-27 ft. Learned a couple of things: how important matching active band length to draw length is to accuracy. I can't shoot looped tubes with this slingshot. Also found I prefer shooting groups instead of spinners, etc. I now find it more amazing that Bill Hayes, his wife Darla, and others can light matches from 10 meters.


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## Crazy Canuck (Dec 20, 2018)

Great to see you're still sticking with it. I've really enjoyed watching your story progress!


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

Crazy Canuck said:


> Great to see you're still sticking with it. I've really enjoyed watching your story progress!


Ditto! Keep shooting, Randy


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## Covert5 (Feb 7, 2018)

Funny, I was just thinking about you because we haven't heard from you in awhile. I'm glad you are still at it! Shoot away!


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Randroid said:


> I'm still here.Still shooting the Alien Menace prototype. Last week I discovered that shooting outdoors from a measured 33 ft @ 45-50 degrees into a 5-10 mph wind is a far cry from shooting indoors at 26-27 ft. Learned a couple of things: how important matching active band length to draw length is to accuracy. I can't shoot looped tubes with this slingshot. Also found I prefer shooting groups instead of spinners, etc. I now find it more amazing that Bill Hayes, his wife Darla, and others can light matches from 10 meters.


Very cool... glad you're sticking with it.

Outside shooting is quite a bit different than indoors... wait'll the weather/temperature changes and then you have to adjust even more!


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