# Learning curve



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Just curious after seeing some of the badge videos. (1) How long did it take you to accomplish 3/5, 4/5, etc., AND (2) did you start off by practicing at the 10m distance?

My first two sessions were only done from 15 to 16 feet. I increased it to 20 ft and that is what I've been using ever since, mainly to allow plenty of margin for error near the house and other things I don't want to hit. In the last week or so the fliers have become history, so I'm wondering when to add a bit more distance.

Yesterday I shot 5 out of 5 hitting the can, but NOT the can bottom, just the can vertically suspended. That was on my good side. On the other side, best I managed has been 3 out of 5. Whereas at the beginning, I couldn't discern a difference in accuracy between sides, now one has emerged. However, I intend to increase the percentage of practice on the "bad side" to try to improve it. Goal is to be good on both sides, but I don't know how realistic that is.

I should add that I am a woman and would like to gradually accustom my fingers, arms, and shoulders to this new sport rather than get RSI. It's become clear that I do better when fresh and not so well when tired, just as in anything else.


----------



## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Sounds like your doing well . First tip . Don't compare yourself or look for a learning curve or norm . There are just too many variables involved . Shooting a slingshot may be more difficult than any thing else . You will improve if you are enjoying and gently striving for improvement . Your self awareness of body and mind during the shot will improve in time . Keep it fun . People that shoot well have been persistently practicing for a long time . Have fun !


----------



## spacepilot (Jul 13, 2016)

Tomboy, welcome! I'm a new shooter of 3 months myself, so you are probably trying to figure out a lot of the same things as I am.

First of all, congratulations on your improvement. There are so many milestones that we as new shooters get to achieve so quickly that it's very exciting. I remember having to change out the first set of bands that I wear out, I was thinking wow I'm really getting somewhere with this slingshot thing! Also, are you trying to be an ambidextrous shooter :bowdown:? I'm sure you can be proficient on both sides if you put in the effort. Actually, I think what you learn from the bad side may make you shoot better on your good side, too. I know I've learned as much from my failed experiments to improve my shooting as the successful ones.

I don't know if there's an average time for people to reach the 10m/20m/etc badge, as everyone's built differently not to mention the variable amount of time to shoot, obligations, etc. I think I'm close to getting accurate enough to try for the 10m badge. I've been shooting at cans and other real-world targets, and very little at paper. Several days ago I did a little bit of practice on paper targets, and the best group was 3/5 on a can top circle at 10m. I know there are shooters that are lighting matches after shooting seriously for about as long, and there are probably people that didn't get as far in the same amount of time. Also people hit walls at different times. I feel that I haven't met any problem that I couldn't solve relatively quickly either by myself or with a little bit of help from forum members. In the end, I think if you try to have fun and keep at it, you'll be surprised at how fast you progress.

I do vary my distance. In the backyard I shoot at ~20 yards, and several to 10 meters in the basement. I also try to go out and shoot at twigs and stumps at unknown distances. Shooting "in the wild" is a piece of advice I got from Rayshot. I do think it helps me learn to focus more on the target, and have me examine my shot process from less controlled environment and circumstances. Besides, it's very enjoyable! You should try it if you have the opportunity.

For physical conditioning, I absolutely agree that you should accustom your tendons and other connective tissues gradually to this sport. I had RSI in my wrist from desk work several years ago that took me a long time to recover from. One thing for sure is that it takes much longer for tendons to get stronger or to recover from injury. A go-to guy for me for exercise is coach Chris Sommer, who was in charge of physical conditioning of a lot of gymnasts going to the US national team, and now has his own body-weight exercise program for us mortals to follow and get stronger. In one of his interviews he said:

"So if I'm working muscle, it's going to take me about 90 days to see a nice increase in strength, all the molecules and you're better at this than me but for my understanding, all the molecules and muscle tissue are going to completely replace themselves in 90 days or so. It's going to take me 200 to 210 days to replace all those molecules and connective tissue. And then for bone tissue, it's going to take me two years."

What he said matches what I discover from my experience. So for exercise, I try to stay at one weight/resistance for a lot longer than my muscle can adapt, just so I don't have connective tissue problems. For slingshot, I started with 3/8" balls, and always had some soreness after shooting in my thumb that braces the fork. So after a while I moved down to BBs and 1/4" balls, and that problem went away. I think if I bring back up band strength and ammo weight in a couple months, I won't have much problem. My BB set up is around 4 pounds of pull weight at full draw. I haven't measured my 1/4" pull weight yet, but it cannot be too much more than 6 pounds. I'm not saying you should move to 1/4" if you are shooting larger ammo, but it's always wise to listen closely to your body and try to be on the safe side.

Sorry I ran on. I just wanted to share some of my experience with a fellow new shooter before I forget it all.


----------



## PorkChopSling (Jan 17, 2013)

What Treefork said  
Understand about training muscles, I just want to say that we use to have someone on this form, a lovely lady, that could pull some crazy heavy bands. She was a little power house. Gender doesn't matter, we all have to work at it, but it's not work when your just out having fun ;-)


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Thanks to all for the encouraging words. I do enjoy practicing, enough that if I skip a day I am itching to start up again.

I use 5/16" steel balls, which have worked out well. In the beginning, my fingers often got tired from holding the pouch and ammo, but that has not happened in the last week. Yay! The shoulder and connections between it and neck on the SS-holding side, or between it and the pouch arm, sometimes still get tired. I found that making sure the SS-holding arm is fully extended helps "lock down" that side, so if it feels unstable I now know to check that detail before the next shot. Not sure what to do about fatigue on the pouch side other than to switch sides! That is one of the reasons I like to practice on both sides. It alternates the way the muscles are used.

But not practicing after I have already paddled, bicycled, etc, seems to help the most at this stage. It just doesn't always work out that way, for various reasons. Being distracted is also a huge negative factor. So I definitely need to make focus a top priority, always.

The suggestion to practice in other scenarios besides a fixed distance with routine targets, to emphasize focus on the target instead of the infrastructure, sounds good. Probably good for confidence also? Not dependent on the same old same old. No mental blocks.

And SpacePilot, using "the off side" definitely helps me understand what is going on with mechanics. It worked for learning to roll a kayak on "the off side", which I quickly switched to calling merely "the other side" to downplay the negative connotations of "bad" or "off." I should do the same for slingshot shooting on both sides.

I mix up shooting cans with shooting at a couple of those bright-splat type targets. After I violate a new one, I attach it to a sheet of corrugated cardboard standing in back of the can, propped against the other backstop boards. With the can thus blocking the center rings, splats in the larger rings allow me to easily see where misses smack, right away. I am happy to see that the splats tend to be getting closer to the can, so even the misses aren't as bad as before.

I, too, am conservative about staying with a comfortable level of physical demand until I know the body can handle more. I won't be trying heavy-pull tubes or heavier ammo until I am much better--including consistency--using the standard tubes and balls.

Rain is forecast for tonight, tomorrow, and Sunday. Time to make a new catchbox!


----------



## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

Always remember... This is fun!!!!! Keep up the good work and remember to watch some of these masters on utube!


----------



## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

The following suggestions are what I have learned from Bill Hays, TreeFork, Mj, Beanflip, GrayWolf, Nathan, and countless others in this Forum. A lot of times I would shoot for long periods of time, without taking breaks. I would start out ok, then I would peak and that's when I should have taken a break. I would then start missing, so I would change little things here and there, until I was frustrated (#%**%#) it was a vicious circle. It wasn't my shooting form, it was fatigue. I started improving when I set up a large backdrop measured off 33ft and just tried to improve my groups. When my grouping started to change, I either took a long break or quit for the day. i then started making a small circle on a sheet of paper to help improve my concentration. Even on a large target its best to pick a small spot to concentrate on. As TreeFork said "just have fun" A video is a great way to see if your shooting form is correct. Use a variety of targets, to keep it interesting.last but not least, make sure your slingshot fits you like a glove.


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Tag said:


> The following suggestions are what I have learned from Bill Hays, TreeFork, Mj, Beanflip, GrayWolf, Nathan, and countless others in this Forum. A lot of times I would shoot for long periods of time, without taking breaks. I would start out ok, then I would peak and that's when I should have taken a break. I would then start missing, so I would change little things here and there, until I was frustrated (#%**%#) it was a vicious circle. It wasn't my shooting form, it was fatigue. I started improving when I set up a large backdrop measured off 33ft and just tried to improve my groups. When my grouping started to change, I either took a long break or quit for the day. i then started making a small circle on a sheet of paper to help improve my concentration. Even on a large target its best to pick a small spot to concentrate on. As TreeFork said "just have fun" A video is a great way to see if your shooting form is correct. Use a variety of targets, to keep it interesting.last but not least, make sure your slingshot fits you like a glove.


Bill Hays' instructional videos have been very useful for me, and I thank him for posting those. I also like watching Volp's videos to see some unusual, fun shooting activities (the Diet Coke and Mentos geyser amuses me to no end). I'm impressed by others' videos as well and will keep looking for more.

Your account of hitting a peak and then deteriorating sounds familiar. Sometimes I can recover and improve, but just as often I go longer than I should. There are two good sayings from another activity that I will pass on, and I should follow them faithfully:

"Always end on a good note"
and
"Look where you want to go" (instead of where you DON'T want to go)

As you suggested, I will make a bigger catchbox and add a little more distance to my practice line. The box I use now measures 13" wide by 16" high. I think maybe worries about sending shots flying outside the box sit in the back of my mind, and this simple change would take care of that.

And yes, I am having fun. I need to drink more canned soda water, though.


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Forgot to add that I keep wishing the wrist brace pad fit me better. I'll try wrapping it in silicone tape (it has no adhesive, so it can be easily changed) and test how that feels. The SS can vary a lot in how it sits on my arm. It was probably designed to fit an "average" size forearm, whatever that is.


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Hey, I just checked my SS arm in the mirror, sideways. The strong-side wrist stays pretty flat, no surprise.

But the weak-side wrist tends to let the hand bend slightly upward. That explains why I was shooting higher than target fairly consistently from that side.

OK, adding "keep SS wrist straight/flat" to my checklist of things to do for every shot.


----------



## spacepilot (Jul 13, 2016)

Tag said:


> The following suggestions are what I have learned from Bill Hays, TreeFork, Mj, Beanflip, GrayWolf, Nathan, and countless others in this Forum. A lot of times I would shoot for long periods of time, without taking breaks. I would start out ok, then I would peak and that's when I should have taken a break. I would then start missing, so I would change little things here and there, until I was frustrated (#%**%#) it was a vicious circle. It wasn't my shooting form, it was fatigue. I started improving when I set up a large backdrop measured off 33ft and just tried to improve my groups. When my grouping started to change, I either took a long break or quit for the day. i then started making a small circle on a sheet of paper to help improve my concentration. Even on a large target its best to pick a small spot to concentrate on. As TreeFork said "just have fun" A video is a great way to see if your shooting form is correct. Use a variety of targets, to keep it interesting.last but not least, make sure your slingshot fits you like a glove.


Solid advice, Tag! I'm just starting to realize that knowing when to take a break or call it a day is very important.



TomboyForever said:


> And yes, I am having fun. I need to drink more canned soda water, though.


There are many target options that doesn't involve drinking soda or beer. I just made a targe from a shower soap bottle to change things up. It's slightly thinner than a soda can, and I can trim it to whatever length I like. It's made of soft plastic, so it yields instead of breaking when hit. I hope it'll last me a while. The down side is that it does bounce the BBs back. I have the target outdoors, so this is not much of a concern. For indoor shooting, I have 2x2" and 3x3" squares of leather that I use as targets. They absorb impact well and will last forever. Even for light ammo like BBs, they will still allow the balls to fall in the catch box instead of bouncing them back.


----------



## Nik Nikolby (Aug 7, 2016)

Wow... As someone else who is pretty new to this I am blown away and super jealous of your progress! Sounds like you're all over it! My (practically worthless) 2c is it's a good move to increase the band pull incrementally. I made the mistake of trying to pull too much too early and it messed up my pouch grip and release and now I am having to retrain my hand. Plus I had a sore thumb for a few days.


----------



## Bob E (Mar 23, 2015)

Practice at the distance you intend to shoot or further away. You can push your ability by taking a step back every time you get a hit and a step forward every time you miss, with the goal being to run out of ammo further away from the target than the last time.


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Nik Nikolby said:


> Wow... As someone else who is pretty new to this I am blown away and super jealous of your progress! Sounds like you're all over it! My (practically worthless) 2c is it's a good move to increase the band pull incrementally. I made the mistake of trying to pull too much too early and it messed up my pouch grip and release and now I am having to retrain my hand. Plus I had a sore thumb for a few days.


Ow! You must have been really determined to pull it back a lot. Your 2 cents counts, because you are new enough to have fresh memories of what went wrong. That is valuable to me.

BTW, in no way is that time I shot 5/5 the norm for me. Usually it is 2 or 3 out of 5 on that side, and only 1 or 2 out of 5 on the other side. But as I noted, state of fatigue makes a big difference on a given day.


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Bob E said:


> Practice at the distance you intend to shoot or further away. You can push your ability by taking a step back every time you get a hit and a step forward every time you miss, with the goal being to run out of ammo further away from the target than the last time.


This sounds like an approach worth trying. I was holding distance the same, thinking that the ammo would tend to move downward with greater distance, causing any adjustments I made in sighting to be off. But a step isn't much. I'll try it.


----------



## TomboyForever (Sep 4, 2016)

Spacepilot, I shot at a 1-gallon Crystal Geyser water bottle and the ammo bounced off it so far I decided to not do that again. That was with a hex nut, though. I may try it, with two changes: use the round steel balls, and fire from a longer distance.

Maybe the numerous stiffening ridges molded in that bottle make it a poor target, because the ammo is likely to hit a surface that has a sharp curve.


----------



## spacepilot (Jul 13, 2016)

TomboyForever said:


> Spacepilot, I shot at a 1-gallon Crystal Geyser water bottle and the ammo bounced off it so far I decided to not do that again. That was with a hex nut, though. I may try it, with two changes: use the round steel balls, and fire from a longer distance.
> 
> Maybe the numerous stiffening ridges molded in that bottle make it a poor target, because the ammo is likely to hit a surface that has a sharp curve.


Yes, some distance is definitely needed for plastic target. That's another reason I like shooting BBs. You can plink at a soda can with BBs for a long time without having to replace it.


----------

