# Did Rufus Hussey Turn The Pouch?



## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Well, See for yourself.

Looks like the Worlds Greatest Slingshot Shooter Turned The Pouch.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

Great video Darrell, can you share the link? ... mmm he not only turned the pouch, it seems he did a slight tweak over his thumb also ... maybe not ? ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## tradspirit (Jul 23, 2012)

Guess Rufus must have seen one of Darryl's vids !!


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

if the maestro did it must be done for a good reason


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

This one is a slow motion compilation. Looks like he points the forks a bit as well. When he releases, at about the 39 second mark, it does look like he tweaks a bit too.:


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't. Start looking at about 2:20 in this one:

http://www.guzer.com/videos/the-slingshot-man.php

I suspect it has more to do with the mechanics of drawing his hand across his chest, than with any mystical properties of twisting the pouch. Note that when he shoots upward, he does not seem to twist the pouch. Watch the early part of this video.






Cheers ...... Charles


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

[quote name="Charles" post="298312" timestamp="1369851192"]

Sometimes he does, and sometimes he doesn't. Start looking at about 2:20 in this one:

http://www.guzer.com/videos/the-slingshot-man.php

I suspect it has more to do with the mechanics of drawing his hand across his chest, than with any mystical properties of twisting the pouch. Note that when he shoots upward, he does not seem to twist the pouch. Watch the early part of this video.






Cheers ...... Charles[/quote

I even noticed his brother Turned The Pouch. Thats it im Turning The Pouch. From now on.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

I would say to study methods of shooting and whatever works for you works for you but unless your aware of other ways of shooting then it might reduce your choices and could inhibit success for you. Your choice rules. My choice is to follow a proven method of shooting from the Best slingshot shooter that drawn breath and walk walked the earth among us. The beauty in this is its uncomplicated simplicity and dont we need a break from the everyday distractions.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

The Warrior said:


> This one is a slow motion compilation. Looks like he points the forks a bit as well. When he releases, at about the 39 second mark, it does look like he tweaks a bit too.:


WOW !!! What more proof does someone need. This is just Brilliant. Thanks so much for this video.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

No problem.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

dgui said:


> I would say to study methods of shooting and whatever works for you works for you but unless your aware of other ways of shooting then it might reduce your choices and could inhibit success for you. Your choice rules. My choice is to follow a proven method of shooting from the Best slingshot shooter that drawn breath and walk walked the earth among us. The beauty in this is its uncomplicated simplicity and dont we need a break from the everyday distractions.


Yep, I agree ... to each his own. There are LOTS of shooters around who are as accurate as Rufus Hussy.

Here is just one example, and he is certainly NOT turning the pouch:

http://www.maniacworld.com/expert-slingshot-man.html

To characterize Rufus as the "Best slingshot shooter that drawn breath and walk (sic) walked the earth among us" is, to put it mildly, pretty wild exaggeration.

It is a pity we do not have any videos of this fellow, but he toured the US giving demonstrations of his abilities, which from the write-ups sound at least as good as Rufus:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/19502-slingshot-marksman-from-1940/

We have no record that Rufus ever cut a playing card at 10 meters or more, that he could consistently strike matches with his slingshot, hit a soda can at 100 yards or more, or any of the other amazing things that several current slingers can do. There are lots of brilliant slingshot shooters out there after which one may model oneself if you are of a mind to do so.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

Hello Charles ... tortsen which is indeed a great accuracy long distance shooter also turns and tweaks the pouch with the bump over the thumb, why? I think mainly to avoid a face hit (also a fork or hand hit), now I heard that Bill Hayes said that tweaking is not desirable as it adds another "variable", that's OK, but the shooter can compensate the deviation produced by practice. It happens that now I am doing the same as tortsen (and same as dgui rotated 90°, turn and tweak) and found that turning adds elevation accuracy (for sideways) and the shift produced by the tweak is very consistent so it is no hard to get used with it. It also happens that for long draws is the more natural and comfortable way to hold the pouch, I don't claim it has a sort of "accuracy magic" doing this way, it's only anatomically natural for very long draws and is wise don't fight against your body ...






Cheers

Arturo


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## wombat (Jun 10, 2011)

Just curious. If everyone wants to shoot like Rufus. Why doesn't anyone tie their bands on the same way he does, and shoot TTF ?


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## Performance Catapults (Feb 3, 2010)

Twisting the pouch is not a variable in my opinion. I also don't believe that twisting the pouch is intended to increase elevation. To increase slight elevation, I simply lower my draw. Most variables happen at the point of release, such as keeping the pouch straight, even release of pressure on the pouch, gripping the ammo itself within the pouch instead of in front of the ammo, drawing with your chest, and releasing between your shoulder blades. That's a lot of info for a release, and one certainly does not acquire it overnight, or in a week. However, over time, one will achieve success in each of those aspects in route to becoming an excellent shot.

Twisting the pouch works, if it didn't, the SPS would've never went into production.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

If you want to twist the pouch, by all means do so. But there is nothing magical about it. And of course I totally agree that one should not go into contortions when shooting ... That is just my point.

If you pay attention to the mechanics of your hand, and just pretend to be drawing a pouch and ball across your chest at about shoulder height until your elbow locks, you will find it much easier to keep your thumb nail pointing toward your body rather than pointing straight up or straight down. Whether your pouch is "twisted" or not depends on how your fork is oriented. As you draw to full butterfly, using an index finger and thumb hold, it is very difficult to draw much of any way except with your thumb nail toward the fork ... you get better extension that way ... you can rotate your wrist 90 degrees either way at that point. Similarly if you are using a fist grip and drawing full butterfly, then twisting or not just depends on your wrist action.

Other than simple body mechanics in certain situations, I still fail to see what just twisting the pouch does for you. And so far no one has given any explanations. Some folks are used to shooting that way and so they feel more comfortable that way and hence find they are more accurate that way. Some folks never twist the pouch and feel more comfortable that way and hence find they are more accurate that way. Not everyone shoots the same way.

As I said, to each their own ... no need to make it a matter of religious dogma.

Cheers ....... Charles


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## kobe23 (Jun 28, 2010)

i've been figuring out why twisting the pouch, or to the more extreme, tilting the pouch in the direction of the fork tips would prevent fork hits. according to physics, yes it could be shown that twisting it make it clear ott forks, and i've figured out why. people in the past might have used the method because it is more comfortable for stronger pouch grip, but now they might do for the known advantage.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

Charles ... I've shoot sideways butterfly both ways, no twist no bend trying a completely "symmetrical" release and the way I do today twist+bend, with the former style my release hand was claiming a strange feeling and I was needed to be very aware trying to avoid bumps when releasing, more than once I took a fork hit (practicing for the badge) and I discovered that was very hard to reduce the vertical spread. Now I am twisting (turning 90°) my vertical spread has reduced dramatically at the cost of a little horizontal spread introduced by the tweak (the natural unavoidable bend) and not a single fork hit (even safe bareback) I don't have an explanation yet, maybe I got enough confident and mentally relaxed knowing it's safe and feeling a comfortable pouch grip ... I believe that has helped my accuracy, it works for me ... sure that every shooter has his own way, no doubt ... only sharing my personal limited experience ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

kobe23 said:


> i've been figuring out why twisting the pouch, or to the more extreme, tilting the pouch in the direction of the fork tips would prevent fork hits. according to physics, yes it could be shown that twisting it make it clear ott forks, and i've figured out why. people in the past might have used the method because it is more comfortable for stronger pouch grip, but now they might do for the known advantage.


The physics is very simple.

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-31-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-2/

Cheers .... Charles


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

I just think it is funny that some folks look to others to reinforce their pre-conceived beliefs and prejudices without bothering to analyze the situation very clearly. Consider the following:

1. Rufus always used natural, forked frames, ... so natural, forked frames are more accurate than any others.

2. Rufus always shot with stones .... so shooting with stones will be more accurate than any other kind of ammo.

3. Rufus always used flat bands ... so shooting with flat bands will be more accurate than shooting with tubes.

4. Rufus always wore bib overalls when he was shooting ... so wearing bib overalls when you shoot will make you more accurate.

Perhaps we need to be more careful to separate the essential from the accidental.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Performance Catapults (Feb 3, 2010)

I never jumped on the pouch twist - bandwagon when I shot flats. Only when I designed the SPS prototype, shooting looped tubes. As I mentioned before, The SPS would've never saw the light of day if I hadn't twisted the pouch. Charles...you're saying if you canter the frame, it's more comfortable to keep the pouch aligned with the forks, rather than twist the pouch towards your face? You must be double jointed if I'm interpreting that correctly. My arm is much more comfortable if my thumbnail is facing the ground.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Performance Catapults said:


> I never jumped on the pouch twist - bandwagon when I shot flats. Only when I designed the SPS prototype, shooting looped tubes. As I mentioned before, The SPS would've never saw the light of day if I hadn't twisted the pouch. Charles...you're saying if you canter the frame, it's more comfortable to keep the pouch aligned with the forks, rather than twist the pouch towards your face? You must be double jointed if I'm interpreting that correctly. My arm is much more comfortable if my thumbnail is facing the ground.


I suspect you must be grossly misunderstanding me. If I pull my right arm back to "full cock" with the hand about at my shoulder, just the muscles in my bicep tend to keep the radius bone stacked on top of the ulna. That means my thumb is on top and my thumb nail is pointed upward toward the sky. I can get a slightly longer draw by pulling my elbow a bit further around my body and turning my thumb nail toward my body. In this position it is almost impossible to turn the thumbnail toward the ground, simply because you cannot rotate the ulna above the radius.



Cheers ....... Charles


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## stej (Jan 16, 2013)

Charles said:


> If I pull my right arm back to "full cock" with the hand about at my shoulder, just the muscles in my bicep tend to keep the radius bone stacked on top of the ulna. That means my thumb is on top and my thumb nail is pointed upward toward the sky. I can get a slightly longer draw by pulling my elbow a bit further around my body and turning my thumb nail toward my body. In this position it is almost impossible to turn the thumbnail toward the ground, simply because you cannot rotate the ulna above the radius.
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


Charles, tried what you were talking about. With my hand next to my shoulder, my relaxed position is like this:









For me this is natural and if I turn the thumb to the sky, I feel some strain.

Also with hand pulled further, natural position is like this:









Either I didn't understand you or there are some differences in human body so it no generalization is possible.


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

The videos I've seen show Rufus primarily with thumbs down grip which twists the pouch. It does appear, at very beginning when Rufus showing kids about aerial/wing shooting, thumb is not down but instead, facing his chest. If you watch the other shooters in the videos, they are also shooting thumbs down (twists the pouch), which Darryl noted earlier....






Could simply mean he modifies pouch grip for aerial/wing shooting and so, he has a couple of shooting techniques. Rufus through years of practice likely just naturally developed shooting style without knowing the specific technical reasons. You know, trial & error, going by feel, and results. He is even doing Active drawing/pulling! As he releases pouch, the pouch grip hand springs further back. Even though bands not tied to forks for OTT, to me, it appears that the bands are going over the forks and maybe the pouch twisting (turning) is assisting in that. Rufus form, shooting in a fluid motion - look, point, & release.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

ZorroSlinger said:


> The videos I've seen show Rufus primarily with thumbs down grip which twists the pouch. It does appear, at very beginning when Rufus showing kids about aerial/wing shooting, thumb is not down but instead, facing his chest. If you watch the other shooters in the videos, they are also shooting thumbs down (twists the pouch), which Darryl noted earlier....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Performance Catapults (Feb 3, 2010)

Charles said:


> I suspect you must be grossly misunderstanding me. If I pull my right arm back to "full cock" with the hand about at my shoulder, just the muscles in my bicep tend to keep the radius bone stacked on top of the ulna. That means my thumb is on top and my thumb nail is pointed upward toward the sky. I can get a slightly longer draw by pulling my elbow a bit further around my body and turning my thumb nail toward my body. In this position it is almost impossible to turn the thumbnail toward the ground, simply because you cannot rotate the ulna above the radius.
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


I understood you perfectly. That is some serious strain on the arm. It's not a natural position.



stej said:


> Charles, tried what you were talking about. With my hand next to my shoulder, my relaxed position is like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


There ya go. Exactly what I was referring too


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Of course as the fore arm swings out from the biceps, it is natural for the thumb to turn down ... that is what leads to the fist grip. And that is not what I described. If you do not open up the joint at the elbow, but simply swing your elbow more to the back of your body, you will not be able to turn your thumb nail down to the ground, which is what I described.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Charles im trying to understand what you are explaing and thoug you supply by pictoral view how the bones are assembled it would be so much better with a live shooting demonstration. Show why its bad and show what is a good way to shoot or something like that. Im sure aside from some physical disability that any and all can learn to shoot well by duplicating The Rufus Hussey method of shooting.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

dgui said:


> Charles im trying to understand what you are explaing and thoug you supply by pictoral view how the bones are assembled it would be so much better with a live shooting demonstration. Show why its bad and show what is a good way to shoot or something like that. Im sure aside from some physical disability that any and all can learn to shoot well by duplicating The Rufus Hussey method of shooting.


I was not trying to describe how to shoot. I was simply pointing out that the mechanics of the body often dictate how one holds ones hands.

I have written before about why the advice to just "twist the pouch" can lead to fork hits and hand hits. And I have made a video of why that happens.

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-31-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-2/

Using the speed bump effect can be very useful sometimes ... when shooting flat top shooters or when shooting bare back. But it is very important that the admonition to "twist" the pouch be accompanied by a description of the mechanics of what is going on, or else the shooter is in danger of getting fork and/or hand hits induced by the twist and the speed bump effect. One needs to carefully indicate how the twist is to be oriented with respect to the fork, and how to employ the speed bump effect to avoid hitting the fork or the hand. Mindlessly telling folks to "twist the pouch" is a recipe for disaster.

You certainly do express a lot of confidence that "all can learn to shoot well by duplicating The Rufus Hussey method of shooting." But it is funny that not many learn to do so. As I have pointed out before, there certainly seems to be no analytical, step by step guide to it. All we have are some very vague statements, like "point until it feels right", and "timing is everything". Those are hardly instructive! Just what is "The Rufus Hussey method of shooting"?

And twisting the pouch does not seem to be necessary to being a good intuitive style shooter. Just above I linked to a Mexican shooter who is a very good instinctive shooter, and in the video, he did not seem to be twisting the pouch. He banged off 9 plastic bottles in the first 55 seconds of the video without even trying hard ... a couple of times he stopped to pick up more ammo out of the frame and several times had to wait for the kid to get more bottles.

There are a lot of excellent shooters who do not twist the pouch. Check out the guy in the video in this thread:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/23864-no-frame/

Bill Hays is an excellent shooter, and he does not twist the pouch. There are others on the forum who have marvelous skills and they do not twist the pouch.

In short, twisting the pouch is not required to be a good intuitive shooter. Twisting the pouch is not required in order to be an accurate shooter.

As for ease of instruction, it is a lot easier to teach most folks how to shoot quite well by teaching them to aim. If it is good instructional videos you want, then you can begin with these.

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-17-how-to-aim-and-shoot-accurately/

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-14-helpful-tips-for-shooting-with-speed-and-accuracy/

Or you could read Jack Koehler's book.

Statistically speaking, the majority of very accurate shooters are aimers. Have a look at the Spanish competitions, for example. Why are the top shooters in the competitions aimers? Or look here in our own group. Why aren't there more intuitive shooters who are qualifying for marksmanship badges? Where are the intuitive shooters who are able to consistently strike a match? Where are the intuitive shooters who can consistently cut playing cards? If it is so easy to learn to shoot very well intuitively, there should be as many or more intuitive shooters on the forum doing qualifying shoots.

I will say it again ... If intuitive shooting were easily taught and an easily acquired skill, then every military and police unit in the world would rush to embrace it. But it just is not so. Conscious aiming is an easily taught and easily acquired skill. Some will be better than others, as with any skill. But I contend that a lot more folks can be taught easily to shoot tolerably well by aiming than by the intuitive approach ... the evidence is all around us.

Dgui, you are a very good intuitive shooter. So was Rufus. I am always amazed by and admire the skills of those who can shoot well intuitively. But let me repeat a few points:

1. Twisting the pouch is not required in order to be a good shooter; it is not required in order to be a good intuitive shooter.

2. The ability to shoot well intuitively is a relatively rare phenomenon, not easily taught and not easily acquired.

3. Shooting well by aiming is easily taught and easily acquired.

I have no complaint at all about those who twist the pouch when they shoot. For specific purposes I sometimes do it myself. I have no complaint at all about those who choose to shoot intuitively rather than aim. I think there is plenty of room in the world and on this forum for a wide variety of approaches and techniques, and we are all richer for it.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Well Charles, It is my opinion that there are some who instruct with great complex analysis when in reality the slingshot is so simple. Here is a video that may help you to understand about avoiding fork and hand hits, the video is plain and simple because the slingshot does not require alot of education to make it work for us.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

Well clearly the mechanics of twisting (and bending) versus a straight "symmetric" release are different, in both techniques may happen unavoidable pouch bends = "errors" (or a bend in the wrong direction) giving the shooter is not a perfect release machine. The "bending errors" in a straight release (many here have experienced) may produce fork hits on one side of the fork tip, more probable with narrow forks and long draws, that's why many people recommend to use wide forks, that way the chance to take a fork hit can be reduced converting them into "innocent" flyers masquerading a bad release technique, but fork hit will come, no doubt it's matter of time. Now when twisting the consequences of bending errors occurs in a rotated 90° plane, besides a different vector diagram, one band is more canted than the other, the more canted band will "correct" it's path in the direction of the less canted band (lifting effect), of course it may not cancel completely a bending error but helps in the right way, now fork or hand hits will likely occur at the center of the frame and in this case a low fork frame with long draws will be more critical (as the canting action becomes smaller) than a taller one. When you combine appropriate twist + bend you will be completely safe of fork with any frame or no frame (bareback). Regarding accuracy I can speak on my own experience that may differ from others, so I will skip that debate ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

It appears in the Archery Sport there are various philosophies of shooting and Instinctive seems more openly discussed & prevalent (compared to slingshot sport). I do not believe in Archery they debate about instinctive bow shooting VS using aiming and the compound bow, such as one being superior to the other? They are both different categories in the the practice of the Archery sport.

Being a slingshot student and wanting to learn by research & studying, in the Slingshot Sport, instinctive shooting does not seem as much practiced which maybe validates Charles' observation. I do not think that Dgui, is being negative or down about aiming methods. IMO, he is just advocating an alternative shooting technique which perhaps has not much been discussed in the open.

Twisting (turning) tweaking (bending) pouch are only some of the principles. It is not the magic silver bullet as there are also other principles to intuitive shooting. As I see it, Dgui through his many video examples in an entertaining style, has given us more of an understanding to help us grasp the instinctive shooting concepts, maybe a little quicker. For the beginner, yes, it is likely easier to learn aiming methods. For those more into slingshot sport as a hobby, maybe we want some variety!

I find that instinctive shooting has enhanced my regular aim shooting. I am seeing one method blending with the other, where it's maybe lesser aiming or hybrid combination of both techniques. I am starting to shoot quicker, in more fluid style thanks to instinctive principles. Personally, I like the more spontaneous style of instinctive shooting. It's a different kind of satisfaction. As they say, 'Whatever floats your boat' ... then do it!


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

ZorroSlinger said:


> It appears in the Archery Sport there are various philosophies of shooting and Instinctive seems more openly discussed & prevalent (compared to slingshot sport). I do not believe in Archery they debate about instinctive bow shooting VS using aiming and the compound bow, such as one being superior to the other? They are both different categories in the the practice of the Archery sport.
> 
> Being a slingshot student and wanting to learn by research & studying, in the Slingshot Sport, instinctive shooting does not seem as much practiced which maybe validates Charles' observation. I do not think that Dgui, is being negative or down about aiming methods. IMO, he is just advocating an alternative shooting technique which perhaps has not much been discussed in the open.
> 
> ...


I have not been involved in archery since I was a young lad, and the sport and equipment have certainly advanced a great deal since then. At that time, I shot a standard stick bow. The archery group with which I was associated taught all newcomers to aim. We did not use compound bows, and we used no sights on the bow nor on the bow string. We were taught to draw to an anchor point on the cheek and use the tip of the arrow as a reference point. We were taught to sight along the arrow shaft and adjust our hold up or down on the target depending on the distance. I have no idea whether today that would be considered "instinctive" shooting or not. But it was aiming. What is the current archery terminology? What counts as "instinctive" shooting in archery?

Cheers .... Charles


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

That is for sure aiming Charles and not instinctive.

http://www.stickbow.com/FEATURES/SHOOTING/gap.CFM

Instinctive is focusing just on the target with no thought of where the arrow are any other reference is and letting it fly when it "feels" right.


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## Bob at Draco (Feb 18, 2013)

You can bet that in archery there are plenty of discussions (arguments) on compound versus stick bows, heavy vs. light, aiming vs. instinctive. It is very similar to sling shot sports.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

true instinctive, to me, is shooting blindfolded . . . :king:


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## NoobShooter (Sep 15, 2012)

Charles said:


> 4. Rufus always wore bib overalls when he was shooting ... so wearing bib overalls when you shoot will make you more accurate.


Tomorrow I am throwing on the old overalls!!!


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## JetBlack (Mar 9, 2012)

I always thought twisting was more forgiving with a poor release so you would not hit the fork.


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## Skillet (Apr 19, 2013)

dgui said:


> The Warrior said:
> 
> 
> > This one is a slow motion compilation. Looks like he points the forks a bit as well. When he releases, at about the 39 second mark, it does look like he tweaks a bit too.:
> ...


I like the way it sounds in slow motion


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## worserabbit (Apr 16, 2012)

Meh, I twist sometimes and I don't twist.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Skillet said:


> dgui said:
> 
> 
> > The Warrior said:
> ...


Yea how was that slow motion sound aquired I wonder. I could use something like that.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Sharing video of Rufus Hussey turning and tweaking the for a smooth slick release and you can also see that Rufus pointed the forks towards the target. How did this video sharing get things off track.The forum is to share ideas in particular true methods of shooting techniques. Should I keep my ideas and shooting videos private because some choose to place no value in it. My choice is to shoot faster in an attempt to shoot better and if there are some who try it and like it then what is the harm. I have studied the great shooters that carfully can aim and get very good results and have tried as per their technique and my results were terrible till I saw Rufus shoot and his style is more free style and no steps involved but more rather one motion and this clicked.
But as for as any claims that my way is right or all the other ways are wrong this is not what i think nor have I claimed turning the pouch is the only thing you must do. But if you dont want fork or hand hits then Turn The Pouch and Tweak now this I do claim. There are 1000 plus videos on pfshooter channel proving this shooting method works but it may not work for all which is fine. Not every ball player can throw a 106 mph fast ball. Also let explain that I am not in any compitition with any other shooter and I do not promote myself or my method but I do share the shooting technique that I still enjoy. There are no statements or video that I boast of my self.


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## Xamllew (May 17, 2013)

I just learned about pouch turning recently, I was skeptical but decided to try it yesterday while shooting rocks. Now I can't imagine shooting stones or irregular ammo without pouch turning. It's like turning a smoothbore musket into a rifle.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Okay, let me see if I've got this straight.... there's just SOOO many steps to learn when you want to acquire the knowledge of how to aim a slingshot... but the way YOU do it doesn't have ANY steps?!?

Let's think this through and count up the REAL number of steps required for each method...

To aim like I do,
1) Turn body sideways to target while focusing on the "target within the target"
2) center ammo in pouch while taking a firm grip on ammo/pouch, grip can be any of a wide variety
3) draw bands while turning and lifting slingshot so it's in line with dominant eye, anchor or don't anchor, draw short or draw long, it's up to shooter
4) when bands are in line with target release while pulling pouch away inline

To shoot "instinctive" like you do,
1) body is turned so that slingshot holding hand side is towards target
2) ammo goes into pouch centering as gripped
3) forks remain vertical while lifting and drawing, turning pouch as you draw
4) make sure pouch holding hand tweeks pouch
5) release when "it feels right" while pulling back with pouch hand and pushing frame forwardd so that it is canted pointing at target on release... making sure the pouch travels over the thumb or finger (depending on which is lowest or closest to body) so that a "speed bump" effect takes place causing the ammo to rise above the forks...

Yep, I can see what you're talking about... my way is just so much more difficult to do... I should be ashamed for even suggesting to people that if they want to shoot accurately within a very short period of time that following my 4 simple steps is really easy to do as compared to your, at the minimum, 5 steps.
But hey, what do I know... I've never even attempted to do a fast draw trick shot, and the number of times I've actually tried to shoot a target that's less than 10 feet away, well you could probably count that on one hand.... so I really don't know anything then!

Seriously though Darrell, this whole discussion keeps getting rehashed over and over by you... and I'm not quite understanding what the problem is...
If you want to shoot the way you shoot, well you're an expert at it... so be happy and do that.

From what I've seen and experienced it's almost never that the "aimers" bring this subject up... It seems you have something you're trying to prove by what you've been saying... so here's what I suggest... SHOW me and the other "aimers" just how superior your method is by simply punching some holes in paper bullseyes from 33 and 66 feet away.

Let's be real honest here... I think you're one of, if not THE top instinctive slingshot shooters in the world... and since you ARE the top guy, it's really up to YOU to prove your concepts... and punching 5 or 10 holes in a bullseye printed on a little piece of paper... well that'd sure show 'em all!

Of course, I don't expect you to do that... you've never done it in the past... and what would you have to gain from it in the first place... other than affirmation that your self promoted and highly touted style of shooting really is just as good as "aiming"... but then, if you, THE top guy, can't punch out the bullseye as well as some others who happen to take all those "difficult" steps in aiming.... yeah, I understand... it would be a difficult thing to swallow...


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## Hrawk (Oct 25, 2010)




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## JetBlack (Mar 9, 2012)

I find standing a bit off angle/axis I shoot better.trying to get ot a bit.can't we just ask Rufus?


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

Great respect to Bill Hays. Your marksmanship skills most impressive & I know everyone is most appreciative of your generous sharing of your expertise. I just think perhaps, a little bit of exaggeration you describing the supposed complex steps about instinctive shooting.

I do use aiming method (learned from your videos!) but also, I like intuitive/instinctive style, which I admit can take more time to learn. We enjoy the slingshot sport in different ways. Right? Maybe some of us don't like as much, shooting paper targets? Maybe some prefer more looser & spontaneous shooting at targets that are animated when you hit them. For myself I'm not into slingshot sport to compete who is better.

IMO, competition style target shooting and freestyle random shooting are different forms of the sport. Why all this negative tension and 'this verses that'? Cannot the different ways we enjoy this sport co-exist? I enjoy Darryl's videos & postings here just as I also appreciate Bill's.

As the kids would say ...CHILLAX (chill-out + relax) and let's enjoy the sport in however we chose to practice it!


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I've learned in rifle and pistol shooting through the years, that you can try to figure out how a top shooter holds his gun , hand position , how long between shots, body position etc. But just because it works for them doesn't mean it's going to work for you!!!. That being said. Bill Hayes is one of the greatest shooters of our time and I respect his views very highly and anybody that does not is blind.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

I am completely agree ZorroSlinger, in my case I started with Bill Hayes method, thanks Bill for your great contribution, something that I can't avoid through my whole life is curiosity, I always try to learn from others, sure I still considering me an aimer this recent 3 month I am trying to discover and develop some aspects that I think pertains to the "instinctive" way a "natural feeling" (in fact I abandoned completely the fork tip reference), very difficult to describe as are unconscious processes more deep than the brain cortex, and it has worked NICE for me, big improvements in accuracy, despite I turn and tweak to do safe butterfly, I believe that every human being has hidden talents and is up to you to discover and develop them, and that is where dgui came to me as an "inspiration" despite my shooting style is very different ... accuracy marksman as Bill or the incredible whips on flying targets that dgui does or what Rufus did in the past it is clear to me that goes far beyond 4 or 5 rules and has a BIG component on whats called "instinctive" or intuition ... that's TALENT or ART to the limit ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Taking nothing away from Rufus he was a great shooter for what he shot. But most of his targets were real close and the rocks he shot were almost the size of table tennis balls. That being said. In all my years of shooting the worlds best shooters I've seen and shot with all aim. Show me a world class shooter in archery, rifle. Pistol that's extremely accurate none shoot intuitively. You will never see a sniper shoot intuitively.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

So why there are so few Bill Hayes or tortsen's among aimers that seems to be the vast majority (including me) ... there is something they have developed that others either don't have or don't discovered yet ... that is TALENT or whatever you want to call it, that's my whole point ... fire guns, archery the same, good mediocre and bad, all aimers, snipers are elite selected ... elite is reserved for few, the talented ones ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

All I know is most things you shoot have sights and there's a reason for that. And the farther the target the more you need the sights. Go deer hunting take your sights off and see how many deer you come back with. People need a reference point to go to. Fork, bands or whatever.


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## GoodShot (Dec 28, 2012)

What works for me might not work for you


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

Yes, preponderance is aiming methodology and that is what is practiced. I do not make direct comparisons of aiming vs instinctive. As stated earlier post, they are different techniques in which we derive our particular satisfaction from the slingshot sport, in the shooting method we choose.

I too, like Arturo am curious & want to learn & expand. Because it is mostly aiming methods used which I practice but with instinctive shooting in slingshot sport, there is not much documentation. Dgui through his videos & postings is attempting to explain his understanding of intuitive style. He too is learning as he shares with us. He may focus on mini sized slingshot frames but intuitive can be applied to any slingshot. Maybe not necessarily a better way to aiming but a different manner in shooting.

Maybe I don't want to shoot at long distances, maybe I don't want to shoot at paper targets, maybe I do not want to shoot to compete with others. As I stated already, I want to practice slingshot sport in way that gives enjoyment for 'me'.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I prefer the most accuracy I can get in anything I shoot. When I shoot at a 2 inch disk at 10 meters I want to hit the center not just the disk. Just like if I go deer hunting I want to hit a certain spot on the deer heart, lungs, front shoulder. Not just hit the deer.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

* ECST 2013 June 7.8 and 9th*



Aimer or Intuitive

Shooters choice

You need to hit this thing ............ :target:


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## BC-Slinger (Jan 6, 2013)

May the best style win. :rofl:

Cheers

BC-Slinger


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## NoobShooter (Sep 15, 2012)

I shoot both ways myself.. I guess i am Bi-slingshotual. I shoot a half butterfly instinct when I want my ammo to miss the target hard and fast, and I aim when i want it to miss slow and effortlessly... But I usually have a lot of fun when I am missing..


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

NoobShooter said:


> I shoot both ways myself.. I guess i am Bi-slingshotual. I shoot a half butterfly instinct when I want my ammo to miss the target hard and fast, and I aim when i want it to miss slow and effortlessly... But I usually have a lot of fun when I am missing..


you just need gps ammo


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## BC-Slinger (Jan 6, 2013)

This thread seems a little tense.... to lighten the mood a little I present you the future of the sport, Rufus Huskey


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

yo bc, i see a lil bit of blue skeen in him, the hat. how bout RUFFUS HUSKEEN ?


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

Cjw said:


> You will never see a sniper shoot intuitively.


You'll never see a sniper who aims (cos you've got a bullet in your O'Brian)

You'll always see the sniper who shoots intuitively, running across no-mans-land, taking pot-shots and trying to get closer :rofl:


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

All I know is that the more I think about shooting the worse I shoot. I just practice a lot and steadily improve. Aiming (if I even do it) is done on an unconscious level. Sometimes, though, when I'm having a particularly hard time zeroing in, I will look down the bands to find the target. It might or might not help. But once I find the target I always go back on auto-pilot.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

In every sport there are always those who inspire and motivate through their amazing performance. We are fortunate to have Rufuss, Dgui, Bill Hays just to name a few for example. There are many others. I honor and respect all of you guys for making this simple slingshot so exciting and challenging. All of you guys have raised the bar in different ways. You've given us all something to work and practice for. All you guys are heroes to others and myself. Keep on doing what you do. You guys are paving the way to a new growing sport/hobby. Thanks


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If you call having a spotter with a spotting scope. A high magnification scope, calculating for Windage , bullet drop, earth rotation , shooting intuitive ok.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I have friends that have shot in more than 1 world championship and Olympic games and all are looking for the latest and best sighting equipment and none I know shoot intuitive. Their all aimers.


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## Isnak (Jun 3, 2012)

This is like comparing a 19th century gunslinger and a 21st century sniper. Apples and oranges! I'm sure there are people out there more accurate than Dgui, but who could put as many marbles on target in as short a span? Different applications and all that!

I used to try aiming but my cross-dominance means instinctive is a lot more practical and natural.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I know many shooters that can shoot just as accurate with a Colt single action army as they are with a Glock 9mm. It's because they know how to aim and good trigger control. But they know how to align the sights. You can give someone a gun that doesn't no how to use the sights and they can shoot intuitive all day long and there never going to be as accurate as a person that can line up the sights properly. I know this from instructing rifle and pistol for over 20 years.


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

CJW, I don't think anyone was suggesting snipers shoot intuitively. Infact, the opposite point was made, unless you're referring to my gag reply, which was intended to support your point entirely.


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## Isnak (Jun 3, 2012)

Cjw, I'm not talking about the type of gun, but the style. I mean more like this: 



 when I say gunslinger. Sorry for any misunderstanding. It might not be a perfect analogy, but I like it =)


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I understand but who's the better shot a person who can shoot a bunch of cans quickly at short distances.Or someone who can shoot small targets at all different distances. You can have not so good alingment and release at short distances and still hit the target. But the further the target the more your mistakes are going to show. You could hit something at 20 feet but with that same way of shooting be a foot off at 50 feet.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I've seen people at the range get all their shots in center of target at 21 feet. But move the target to 50 feet and it looks like their shooting a shot gun their all over the place.


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## Isnak (Jun 3, 2012)

Acknowledged, without other, more skilled members chiming in I don't think I can comment much, I'm a newbie to slingshots. I'm sure there are plenty of intuitive shooters out there who can hit stuff at impressive ranges, it's all about muscle memory after all. Gamekeeper John has some pretty impressive hunting videos and he says he only uses intuitive aiming when hunting.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Isnak said:


> Cjw, I'm not talking about the type of gun, but the style. I mean more like this:
> 
> 
> 
> when I say gunslinger. Sorry for any misunderstanding. It might not be a perfect analogy, but I like it =)


Bob Munden like set up for Slingshot Fast Draw.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If your talking just about speed and short distance shots thats fine But I also saw world champion pistol shooter Don Nygord put 80 shots in a row with a 22 caliber pistol and when he was done he had a 3/8 inch hole at 50 feet. Whos more accurate ?


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## Isnak (Jun 3, 2012)

So are you saying point shooting and such is redundant?


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

Olympic shooting, snipers, spotting & magnification scopes, Colts, Glocks ... ????

Let me check original topic ... Rufus turning pouch .... yes ... about SLINGSHOTS


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I've been involved in competitive shooting for 25 years and one common theme among shooters is to be the most accurate. Is shoot one weapon 1 cartridge type all the time. For that particular event. Carefully aim get sights lined up release shot. And you need to do the same thing every shot. If you watch world class shooters they have the same release time for every shot. Their not shooting by instinct. They have a set pattern they go buy. They bring the weapon up the same way and time every shot, they line up their feet and body position the same way every shot. They have their head the same position every shot. That's why their consistently accurate. Like I said short distance shots are forgiving but long distance shots arent. And usually the best shooters in matches are the ones who can handle the pressure the best. I've seen shooters shoot great in practice and on video but fall apart when competing against other shooters. So who's the better shooter the person who shoots great in their back yard or the person competing with 50 other shooers and is still accurate and wins.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

The post got off topic when people started talking aiming or instinctive shooting.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

To be the most accurate with a slingshot you need find the right slingshot for you . Find the right band and pouch set up and 1 size of ammo and shoot that all the time. Thats why MJ is so accurate. He shots his SPS all the time. If you always change the slingshot your shooting you will never be as accurate.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

OK, Cjw you made your point, but some of us still prefer shooting the bad wrong way, maybe some day I will realize how fool I've being ... so thanks for your advice ...


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If it works for you that's fine. I'm just going by my experience as a shooting coach. I'm not telling you to shoot my way or anybody else's way to each his own.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Whats up with all this off the subject and the attacking and what is all this competition and the sniper thing. If you want to be a sniper with a slingshot you need a scope and maybe night vision gogles and sights and the suite and a head gear that goes with it. And 50 shots in a 3/8 hole. Its a slingshot for heaven sakes a slingshot and you can shoot yours without all the gangbanging tough guy stuff. I dont care who is better and this is suppose to be a forum for sharing ideas and such and not to slam each other because one wants to shoot cans another is pleased with paper or instinct and another like to aim with the edge of the frame. Ha its all a load and carry the one you want to. It certainly sounds like theres some hating and resentlment going on so work it out and if you would just start a thread that delivers what you want. The topic was strictly about a Great Shooter that was no boast about himself and was one who shared his love of slingshots and his method can be seen and studied. Some of the fellows on this forum use to speak affectionately of Rufus Hussey and I dont know what happened here but it looks like its going down like a toboggan slide down the side of a slick mountain and theres no breaks.

You who attack and challenge have something to prove and you have displayed what your true talent is.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm not attacking or challenging any one . Every member here can shoot how ever they want. I'm just voicing an opinion from shooting experience in multiple shooting diciplines . I'm sure theres a lot of members here that can out shoot me with a slingshot. But in coaching shooting diciplines I believe Ive learned what it takes to be a consistently accurate shot no matter what you shoot. The basic fundamentals are all similar.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)




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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Who's the best is a subjective thing there's to many variables involved .


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## KITROBASKIN (May 20, 2013)

dgui said:


> Well, See for yourself.
> 
> Looks like the Worlds Greatest Slingshot Shooter Turned The Pouch.


This is the post that started this thread. I think you forgot. Then folks compared different types of shooting. Those who think Rufus Hussey is the greatest slingshot shooter in the world are not in the majority here. I think many of us aim to one degree or another depending on the proximity of the target and the speed necessary to make the shot. This is something I remember reading from Colonel Jeff Cooper in Guns and Ammo, I believe.

More power to you if you want to explore the limits of close range, rapid shooting. It is fun to watch and if you want to call rapid aiming instinctive shooting go ahead. You are using your eyes and the placement of your hands in relation to the weapon and projectile based on repetition to archieve your goal. Colonel Cooper taught that the closer the target ( that can shoot back at you) the quicker you need to shoot an effective shot. It is the balance between accuracy and speed.

When you watch Bill Hays or someone else taking a rabbit in the field with precision, well... That's something I aspire to approach. If you want to explore one realm of this great sport, great. And show us. It's fun. And I will try to not overdo this conversation or quibble over styles and interests. Thank You.


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## Hrawk (Oct 25, 2010)

Here's an interesting little read:


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Blue is a slingshooter's slingshooter.

If he says it then it's so, as far as I'm concerned.


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

Remember, Rufus was shooting with gnarly huge rocks, and basically stuck with his same natural forks style & rubber set-up. Obvious he was not into the competition thing. To me, looks like he was having FUN with it and entertaining the folks near where he lived. I LIKE Trick & Novelty shooting where it don't require wide open fields!!! I live near higher dense population area and in California, we are littered with paranoid nosy people who will call cops on ya.

Yes ... targets alive & animated ... the bending sound of impacted cans, chasing them down with consecutive hits, shredding of cans, the burst spray of filled carbonated soda bottles, shaving cans oozing their frothy contents, targets hung with whatever items, trinkets, toys, you want so you can break & destroy! What a stress reliever and meditative at same time! Please ... no discrimination against short range shooters .... "Can't we all just get along?!"


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

I think it would be appropriate to chime here once again...

Guys, it's my opinion that Darrell really is one of if not the best in the world right now when it comes to that fast close up type shooting... and I also believe there is no one around that could touch him if he were to decide to take the Guiness Book of World Records Record for the most cans shot in a minute... there's just very few that could give him a real run for that type of record....
AND his style of shooting does have a very significant place in slingshot shooting... there is much that can be learned by watching and emulating many of the things he does.

HOWEVER, it is also my firm belief that one should only explore that method AFTER they have a good functional foundational understanding of how to actually AIM a slingshot. And it's also my belief that the style of aiming I use is pretty close to the best there is, if indeed it's not the actual best.... as once a person understands and utilizes the simple one line aiming system, the skillset involved transfers nicely and easily to other projectile weapons such as a rifle, pistol or bow.

Now the reasons I believe one should have a good foundational understanding are many, but there are three reason that really stand out to me... the first is as was mentioned, transfer of skills to other weapons... the second is when a shot really counts and you want to be sure of the best chance of hitting that shot, you actually KNOW how to do it and your confidence built through practice and knowledge will help you to make it... the third reason is, you have something to fall back on if it (instinctive) just doesn't really seem to work for you...
But if you start with "instinctive" it's a lot more difficult to learn to aim... yet if you start as an "aimer" picking up instinctive is not nearly as difficult.

Another thing I want to clear up here and I should mention as well... I did not invent my style of aiming, yes I did add a few things and morphed a few other things but that's all... in fact when I was a kid I started with a style very similar to what Darrell uses right now... yes I was able to hit stuff when it was close up, but when the distance got out to around 10 yards (standard pellet pistol range at that time), I couldn't hit very well at all... and I soon lost interest in slingshots altogether.

What got me back into slingshots was a video by Bill "Tex" Herriman... once I saw and realized the significance of the sideways method of holding the fork like he was showing... I just knew that slingshots were far underrated in the amount of accuracy they could achieve...

Three years ago my eyes were opened to new possibilities by Tex and since then... with the help of more than a few other enthusiasts... we've brought the world of slingshot shooting up from, for example, hitting a soda pop can 5 out of 10 times from 33' was considered VERY good, and a "world class" shooter may hit one 9 out of 10 times... and speeds up to 210 fps for .44 cal lead being considered close to top of the mark.... to now it's not uncommon for shooters to cut cards, hit soda cans 20 or more times in a row, and achieving speeds well over 300 fps with .44 lead is fairly commonplace.

Darrell's contributions to this evolution should not be over looked, and can not be overstated... he helped to provide the motivation for myself and so many others to evolve not only the slingshot itself but our styles, techniques and a realization of what's actually possible with a simple weapon like a slingshot.... when I did the Herb Parsons Winchester '73 shot with a freakin' slingshot (considered to be one of the toughest shots possible with a rifle), I KNEW the only limitations are what we place on ourselves... after that cutting cards, lighting matches and all those outrageous long distance shots... all hard for most people with a rifle, done with a slingshot.... and Darrell had a lot to do with that, in that he was as a foil, someone to good naturedly compete shot challenge to shot challenge with... ever raising the bar for what people know to be possible.

So what I'm saying is... Darrell, I respect your abilities more than you may realize... BUT I think it's better to know how to aim before you just pick it up and go by feel....


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## Jeff Lazerface (May 7, 2013)

I do not understand this twisting at all, I am totally confused and i shoot much crappier now. Ive watched 6 videos, i dont get it.


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

Perfectly said. Nobody thinks Darrel can't shoot a slingshot for damn. If you do, you're nuts. But this twisting and tweaking the pouch thing keeps getting rehashed so much, it's kinda crazy, and touted like it's a superior method to all others. It clears low forks and is essential for that, but it's not the holy grail (*and for the record, I twist the pouch when I aim!*)



Bill Hays said:


> I think it would be appropriate to chime here once again...
> 
> Guys, it's my opinion that Darrell really is one of if not the best in the world right now when it comes to that fast close up type shooting... and I also believe there is no one around that could touch him if he were to decide to take the Guiness Book of World Records Record for the most cans shot in a minute... there's just very few that could give him a real run for that type of record....
> AND his style of shooting does have a very significant place in slingshot shooting... there is much that can be learned by watching and emulating many of the things he does.
> ...


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## Jeff Lazerface (May 7, 2013)

twist it how? OMG! I have no style of shooting yet, i like gangster, lmao! Teach me this. Im very good at chopping stuff, but not this twisting of the pouch!


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

Jeff Lazerface said:


> twist it how? OMG! I have no style of shooting yet, i like gangster, lmao! Teach me this. Im very good at chopping stuff, but not this twisting of the pouch!


heres the video by jakerock, for now just forget the tweak part, just do the twist part.

you can decide how much you want to twist, little or lots. from my experience, if your thumb nail

is on the bottom, turn clockwise, if its on top , turn counter clockwise. your draw length will determine that

lil aspect for you. it works for some , i grew up shooting this way , so i actually had to teach myself not to

twist when i shoot. hope it answers your question a lil bit . doesnt matter how you hold the slingshot.

the tweak only applies to the pfs.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

ABG nails it, Darrell has never promoted at least on what I have seen from him that twisting and tweaking is the accuracy holy grail and also nothing to do with fast or instinctive shooting, IT IS ONLY A WAY TO AVOID FORK OR HAND HITS, specially with low forks for example with PFS's it's a must. I prefer the PFS frame (low and narrow forks) because is the most comfortable of all frames I experienced but it's my personal choice, take it as data only I don't want start the "frames war". Also I shoot butterfly because for me is more accurate (make sense to me a long draw similes a rifle barrel which is inherently more accurate than a short gun) and gives me the best power. I started butterfly 3 month ago with PFS's sideways and aiming with the "bands reference projection" turning and tweaking, because not only prevents the fork/hand hits but is the most natural position for my right hand to grip the pouch with the index and thumb fingers, as tortsen does. In my experience the twist and tweak has not degraded at any extent my previous accuracy. So in my case turning and tweaking does not harm accuracy with very long draws. I don't care on which is the "best" on people that not have a true experience practicing seriously the the stuff in this debate and I don't care on what's the best way to compete as I am not a competitor, meanwhile I hit 1.5" targets at 52' every day the way I like ... so I respect others choices and claim the same for some of us that don't do the "best" ... maybe I am a fool ...

disclaimer, I always talk on my own experience and never do generalizations I feel I am not qualified being 1 year shooting ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

I didn't realize there was a conversation about aiming vs instinctive shooting going on. I just got back from fishing so I am a bit lazy and cannot read for a long time but I think I got the jist of this thread. I have slingshots from both Mr. Hays and DGUI. I learned aiming, distance, and presicion from bill and I learned reloading comfort, speed and accuracy from dgui. No doubt these two are the best in the buisness for how they got to where they are at. I hit far targets using aiming principals with dguis opfs and I killed game with hays seal sniper using instinctive shooting, and one with reloading quickly to boot lol. I don't know what the origional argument was here but check out some youtube videos of them and learn some things for yourselves and maybe if you advance enough you'll be the subject of the next argument-in a good way


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## ascedb0 (May 29, 2013)

Jeff Lazerface said:


> twist it how? OMG! I have no style of shooting yet, i like gangster, lmao! Teach me this. Im very good at chopping stuff, but not this twisting of the pouch!


I got a few PFS slings yesterday and I get where your coming from... In the beginning it was almost impossible for me to not hit the fork or my fingers even while twisting and tweaking the pouch.. But I slightly changed the way i hold the pouch and all the sudden it just clicked and now I am consistently accurate and have stopped hitting the fork/fingers... 
What I do:

-Keep the fork slightly tilted forward

-I twist the pouch to the right so that my index finger is underneath and thumb is on top.

-Then I "tweak" the pouch upwards a few degrees so that my thumbnail is now pointing straight up.

-aim and shoot..

This is basically exactly how Dgui says it should be done.

You just have to keep practicing and you'll find out what works for you.


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## Incomudro (Jan 12, 2012)

Dgui and Bill are obviously at the top of the slingshot shooters heap with regards to their respective style.

Regardless of what virtually any of us try to do who aren't either Dgui 'nor Bill - most of us will never get close to them.

Some people just have natural gifts that are beyond others in certain areas.

You can practice guitar all you want, but not everyone will be Eddie Van Halen.

Not every basketball player will be a Michael Jorden.

Not every driver a Richard Petty, and so on...

What I will say is that an aiming technique is probably more replicable to the average person. Lots of practice can probably net increasingly accurate results in a greater amount of people.

Whereas instincive shooting at the level Dgui demonstrates probably falls more into the realm of the naturaly gifted, and fewer people would be able to get really good at it no matter how long they practice, or what tips they add.

On personal level, I'd rather watch an instincive shooter.

Someone who is all technique in anything isn't always as rewarding to the audience as someone who is more of a natural.


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## JetBlack (Mar 9, 2012)

Sorry but I think Bill and dgui are both better and more fun to watch, I'm also glad you guys have different styles.


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## Incomudro (Jan 12, 2012)

JetBlack said:


> Sorry but I think Bill and dgui are both better and more fun to watch, I'm also glad you guys have different styles.


Glad they have different styles as well.

I enjoy Blue Guitar as well as Classical.

BTW, I love your Carl Sagan avatar!


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Incomudro said:


> Dgui and Bill are obviously at the top of the slingshot shooters heap with regards to their respective style.
> 
> Regardless of what virtually any of us try to do who aren't either Dgui 'nor Bill - most of us will never get close to them.
> 
> ...


I Like this comment.


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