# Finally Success ;- )



## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

All of you know my antics at the place I shoot. So I went back this afternoon, but to do some testing, I went there to test a weave pouch that Roger sent me. I set it up with looped amber 1745 tubes on a modified Daisy F-16 with gypsy ties .. here is a pic:









The pouch is nice and pliable and conforms to your ammo very, very well. I used 3/8" steel and 5/8" marbles. Shooting went smoothly and ammo flew true, I was on this afternoon ;-) I might add because of the pliability of this weave I did not seem to have the hard finger slap as I often do. Also to note the weave is very nice to hold on to and does not want to slip out of your fingers, but easily slides out when you want it to ! I hope Roger does something with his pouches as they are very nice and have a great feel ... I'm sure we will hear more about these in the future !

Well I'm walking around and shooting at stuff and shooting well, ammo was going where I wanted it to and well withing my zone, both with 5/8" marbles and the 3/8" steel.

As I'm walking back to my car a starling lands in a shaded tree some 25yds away around 12 feet up ---- I'm feeling good, I pull back lower my head over the tubes and let 'er rip ..... about 2 inches off of the left of the chest, very close but no cigar. He then jumps up to another branch and his backstop is a much larger branch. I load up with another 3/8" steel ball, this one has been blessed by the gods ... I let 'er rip again ...... this time a hear the hit, but instantaneously hear the ball smack the branch behind the starling. The starling falls lifeless on branches up in the tree unable for me to reach. After finally spotting him, it was quite apparent the ball hit the mid chest area and ripped right through him... he was a goner.

A side note ... when birds this size are hit with my 5/8" marbles there is a definite loud smack and the bird is knocked for a loop....was not the case with this shot, I saw the hit and the bird fell and was most assuredly dead when hit as the ball went through him, but it was different.The difference is there was a lot of wasted energy as the ball went through him, 5/8" marbles dump all there energy and cause tremendous blunt force trauma, not so much the case with this ammo, it zips through and causes death by organ injury and such and there is surely some blunt force trauma, but not like a big fat marble, very interesting.

I will keep going out and shooting with the 3/8" steel to see if other starlings, maybe bigger act the same way.

wll


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## Gunnar (Dec 30, 2013)

Oh ya nice job


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Nice report! Perhaps you should try some 3/8 inch cubes ....

Cheers ..... Charles


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Charles said:


> Nice report! Perhaps you should try some 3/8 inch cubes ....
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


I would but I'm way to lazy to make them, and many would be lost as my shooting distances are far.

wll


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

cool on the bird hit

~AKAOldmiser


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

*An Addendum: *

Went out this am again to the same spot to see if I could see the staling to get a closer look of where I hit ...nope he was gone ..or so I thought. I looked on the ground underneath where he was yesterday and there was nothing.... but in some dead tumbleweed and old boards there he was near the ground. His tail was sticking out so I looked around the area very carefully and saw nothing so I quickly grabbed the tip of his tail and pulled him out.

It was a good high chest shot just high under the wing base and the 3/8' ball went through one side and out the other. OK, so I lean a bit over the old dead sage brush and trash and there is a little opening where I decide to throw the dead starling in, as I lean over and have the bird starting to go in the opening... whats inside on the ground .... a nice big Mojave Green ! I drop the bird on him *QUICKLY* (out of fright) and as I jump back utter a word that starts with "F". This is only the second Mojave Green I have seen this year, I was out early this am so I think he was at rest all curled up .. last thing in the world you want is to get smacked by one of those ......

*BTW*: I never shoot at this tree and I found the 3/8" ball that hit him, it was on the ground about 6 feet in front of the big branch that acted like a backstop after the shot.

OH, I did have another shot, about a 40 yarder, 20ft high in an old oak ..... shot was a little low and right, still pretty darn close, I was impressed ;- )

*PS*; I went directly to Home Depot after this and bought a long handled cultivator (4 feet), in case I want to go digging for any of my harvest again ;- )

wll


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Went out again to see if my rattle snake friend was around, but he could not be found. No I was not going to shoot him, just wanted to get an up close to see how big he was, with my cultivator to keep him at bay.

Anyway, I guess the son was just right ,, I shot two very accurate shots at the holes in the old water tower and both were right there, one going through one of the holes, the other about an inch or so low but leaving a hole in the old siding. As I looked around I found 4 marbles I had shot and a 1/2" steel that had started to rust a bit.

It is always a good day when you come home from a outing with more ammo than you started ;- )

wll


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## calinb (Apr 4, 2015)

wll said:


> I saw the hit and the bird fell and was most assuredly dead when hit as the ball went through him, but it was different.The difference is there was a lot of wasted energy as the ball went through him, 5/8" marbles dump all there energy and cause tremendous blunt force trauma, not so much the case with this ammo, it zips through and causes death by organ injury and such and there is surely some blunt force trauma, but not like a big fat marble, very interesting.


Without conducting an elaborate study, there's no way to know how much energy remained in that 3/8" ball when it exited the bird, but it might not be as much as you think. The result of a study on big game hunting rounds proved that very little energy typically remains in a high power rifle bullet (or bullet fragment) when it exits a game animal. (It's travelling pretty slowly at that point). I'm happy to get pass-throughs!


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

calinb said:


> wll said:
> 
> 
> > I saw the hit and the bird fell and was most assuredly dead when hit as the ball went through him, but it was different.The difference is there was a lot of wasted energy as the ball went through him, 5/8" marbles dump all there energy and cause tremendous blunt force trauma, not so much the case with this ammo, it zips through and causes death by organ injury and such and there is surely some blunt force trauma, but not like a big fat marble, very interesting.
> ...


I'm happy to to get them too, but just saying the smash from a 5/8" marble on a starling size bird seems to be bigger smack, the sound in my experience is different. And again this is a bird that has a breast area about 21/2 -31/2 inches in diameter, so ammo size may not be that important.

On a side note, just got back from some more shooting and shot at a filled tomato can (not soup, but tomato chunks and puree, pretty thick when it was spilling out) at 20 yds with 3/8" steel ... well it goes through one side but not both. looped 1745, 7 inch static and a 36" active draw.

All in all I like the little 3/8" for what I'm doing, would not use them on ground squirrels, but If I could hunt dove I would use them, I would use them on grackles too if I was allowed, but that, for me would be about the biggest thing I would go after. I know guys use them on pigeon, but I'm not a good enough shot to go just for the head.

wll


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## calinb (Apr 4, 2015)

wll said:


> I'm happy to to get them too, but just saying the smash from a 5/8" marble on a starling size bird seems to be bigger smack, the sound in my experience is different. And again this is a bird that has a breast area about 21/2 -31/2 inches in diameter, so ammo size may not be that important.


I'm not surprised at your report that the marble makes a bigger smack, Wll! I just did the quick arithmetic and found that a 5/8" glass marble has about twice the mass of a 3/8" steel ball. I'm almost certain that, given your 1745 setup, you are realizing more terminal energy from the marble than the steel ball. The marble just doesn't have the sectional (thus energy) density of the 3/8" steel so it doesn't penetrate as well. Like you said, the higher marble energy results in more blunt trauma!


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

calinb said:


> wll said:
> 
> 
> > I'm happy to to get them too, but just saying the smash from a 5/8" marble on a starling size bird seems to be bigger smack, the sound in my experience is different. And again this is a bird that has a breast area about 21/2 -31/2 inches in diameter, so ammo size may not be that important.
> ...


Per given band set at a certain range (I think it was around 35yds) the 3/8" steel takes over because of its much smaller surface area and the fact that it was flying some 25-30fps more to begin with.

All in all, with the size of the stuff I'm shooting at, it doesn't matter much. On the other hand, when I'm launching 214gr egg lead weights at 210fps ..... that has some smack, and tremendous momentum.

wll


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