# Thoughts and questions on killing power



## poekoelan (Jan 1, 2013)

Bear with me on this.

When I was a kid I thought speed was the end all be all. As I got a little older, I learned that a heavier bullet moving a little slower could do a good bit more damage. This was with firearms. Where almost all bullets penetrate the target. The term "blunt force trauma" doesn't exist in the world of firearms.

Enter slingshots. People often debate about penetration vs. blunt force trauma when it comes to killing an animal with a slingshot. The way I see it ( please correct me if I'm wrong on this ) they are essentially the same thing. They both result in tissue / organ damage and severe bleeding. Penetration will likely cause external bleeding and blunt force trauma will likely cause internal bleeding, and there will likely be some overlap in both cases. But you can count on organ damage and bleeding being the cause of death in either case.

And since a slingshot is such a low velocity weapon, it's best to rely on energy rather than speed to make the kill. Energy transferred to the target is a more reliable killer than raw speed. Right?

If I am right on this so far, here is where I get confused. The term "momentum" gets brought up sometimes. I understand how how energy and blunt force trauma are related, but I'm not quite sure where momentum fits in. Can anyone point me in the right direction?


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## S.S. sLinGeR (Oct 17, 2013)

Here is some info that may help you. Check out the effective hunting setups here: http://slingshotforum.com/topic/16188-effective-hunting-setups/?p=187221


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Momentum is a product of mass and velocity. The animal has to be small enough and the projectile large and fast enough to kill with the blunt force. Another consideration is whether or not the ball goes through or stays in the animal. If it penetrates but stays in the animal then all of the force will be transferred as well as the blunt force. (We have a bit of an advantage in slingshot shooting in that the distances are small and there isn't much time for the projectile to slow down.)

winnie


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

We are constantly bombarded by cosmic rays. These have very high energy ... excellent penetration. But they do not do much immediate damage, in part because they do not deposit their energy in us.

An arrow with a broadhead may or may not penetrate all the way through an animal, but it will cause massive bleeding. It is not so much the energy deposited as the tissue damage leading to bleeding.

The arrow will have about 200 foot pounds of energy ... a bullet from a modern rifle will have about 1000 foot pounds of energy or more. Of course there are great variations here. In any case, if the bullet does not pass through the animal, then the energy gets absorbed by the tissue ... so there is an "explosive" bubble of hydro-shock that moves along the bullet channel, resulting in massive tissue damage. But sometimes that damage is pretty localized, and bleeding is not great because the tissue seals up from the trauma.

Now, bigger, slower moving bullets are generally harder to stop than smaller, faster moving bullets. One of my favorite examples is comparing a 45-70 to a 7mm magnum. Fire that magnum into a tree about 18 inches across, and you will blow a lot of chips out ... but the bullet will only penetrate 6-8 inches or so. Fire the 45-70 into a tree, and you will not get much obvious effect. But the bullet will pass all the way through the tree, and maybe through the next one as well. A large animal shot with a 45-70 will have a 1/2 inch hole all the way through it. That hole will not seal up, as will the wound from smaller 7mm or .30 caliber cartridges. And an animal with a 1/2 inch hole all the way through is going to die pretty quickly. Ask cops ... people often survive body shots from 9mm or .45 pistols. Nobody survives a body shot from a 12 gauge slug.

That 45-70 has less kinetic energy than the 7mm magnum, but that 45-70 slug has a lot more momentum ... it is harder to stop.

Getting slingshot ammo to penetrate skin and external muscle tissue is not that easy ... you need pretty high velocity, at least 200 fps. Even if it does penetrate external skin, it likely will not penetrate very far. But using larger ammo at lower velocity will yield a LOT of blunt force trauma. Penetration is not required. Blunt force trauma is especially effective with head shots. Taking an ice pick to someone's skull is not guaranteed to be lethal. A good swing with a heavy baseball bat will probably be more effective, even if there is no penetration.

You might also think of a deadfall trap. The animal is killed because it is crushed by a heavy weight ... all blunt force trauma, no penetration. It is not so much the energy of the falling log or stone as the momentum, and the resulting trauma.

Cheers ... Charles


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## Oneproudmeximan (May 20, 2013)

A balance in between penetration and speed I have found that balance with 38 cal lead.


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## poekoelan (Jan 1, 2013)

Now I am beginning to understand how momentum plays it's role. The dead fall trap analogy did it. Thanks


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

This is one of the reasons I love shooting rocks. A 3/4" rock, striking the target with savage blunt force, can really do some damage.


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

I really noticed a big difference today on weight difference with my catchbox. I shot at my sheet backstop from 50 feet a couple times with high speed 7/16" steel and the effect on the sheet was so-so. I pulled up my 1/2" tubes with 5/8 steel and each shot was a pronounced WOOMP! with a far greater effect on the sheet. I would like to spot a snoshoe hare or a large goose with the 5/8 steel, I feel it would be very effective. Another thing, I might be able to go heavier with these tubes. I used the shooter marble from a pack of marbles and that made a pretty good dent in a pine 2x4. the 5/8 got stuck in the pine 2x4 pretty impressive. I get a slight handslap with my 5/8 steel so I think im going to try out .58 cal lead or .60 cal lead just for kicks.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

I would go for the lead ... even 1/2 inch lead packs a lot of wallop! But wardens might get grumpy about shooting lead over water.

Cheers .... Charles


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

Here in the backwoods of Arkansas we have alot of snakes. I tell you linitex bands and 44cal. Lead makes there head magically disappear! I'm all about momentum! I haven't had to lug a gun around in years.


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