# E2E, slingshot deer hunting ?



## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

I ran into a equip 2 endure slingshot video where the guys there claim they got deer with there slingshots deep drawing with some big tubes (7/16 tubes) and 280 grain conical lead ammo, getting between the eyes headshot on a deer its not hard, so if i would get some big tubes and ~300 grain conicals then there would be enough power for a deer ? are they lying ?

because if it has enough power be sure i would get at least 1 deer to try it!

(i asked for answer to whether it had enough power, i did not ask to hear whether you think i should do it or not - lets not start an argument about this now.)


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, 280 grain ammo is awfully big. A 280 grain projectile moving at 200 fps yields about 25 foot pounds of energy. A .22 long rifle will give you about 120 foot pounds of energy. A .22 caliber air rifle shooting a 14 grain pellet at 1000 fps will give you 31 foot pounds of energy. Just on the basis of pure energy considerations, I would be skeptical ... I am not saying it could NOT be done, just that it is extremely unlikely.

Have a look at the Power Rangers thread:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/21109-slingshot-forum-300-club/

You will see that it is very difficult to get high energy ratings from a slingshot. I know ... I have tried many setups.

By the way, very heavy tubes are probably not the way to go ... their retraction rate is too slow. You would do better with perhaps two layers of TBG in a taper cut, with a very long draw length.

If you want to take a deer with a slingshot, you would do much better to use a slingbow arrangement shooting arrows.

Cheers .... Charles


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

HuntingISR said:


> I ran into a equip 2 endure slingshot video where the guys there claim they got deer with there slingshots deep drawing with some big tubes (7/16 tubes) and 280 grain conical lead ammo, getting between the eyes headshot on a deer its not hard, so if i would get some big tubes and ~300 grain conicals then there would be enough power for a deer ? are they lying ?
> 
> because if it has enough power be sure i would get at least 1 deer to try it!
> 
> (i asked for answer to whether it had enough power, i did not ask to hear whether you think i should do it or not - lets not start an argument about this now.)


This would be interesting but like Charle's said, they should be using double or triple layered bands, or a pseudo tube set up or double tube set up with ammo weight to match, which would greatly enhance velocity/energy efficiency. I don't think the equip 2 endure folks are up to speed on the physics of rubber tubing/bands efficiency. I have seen them on another post using thick tubes ...not the way to go, IMHO

wll


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

I would check out A+ slingshots Perry has a Lever Bow...at a good price...that may just be what you will need

if you plan on deer hunting..Just in my opinion~AKAoldmiser


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

oldmiser said:


> I would check out A+ slingshots Perry has a Lever Bow...at a good price...that may just be what you will need
> 
> if you plan on deer hunting..Just in my opinion~AKAoldmiser


Perry makes some nice stuff for sure, I have a used bamboo PS-1 or I have 2 PS-2's that I should get in about a week or so I believe.

wll


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

If you want to shoot large game with a slingshot, an arrow with a very sharp broadhead is the only way to go.


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## youcanthide (Jun 16, 2013)

The shot stunned or maimed the deer long enough to slit its throat not killed it outright. I would have took the same shot in a survival situation but otherwise I think its irresponsible.


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## DogBox (Aug 11, 2014)

...And I thought THIS had been THRASHED OUT BEFORE AND GIVEN THE THUMB'S DOWN... so why, please, must you go on about it again??

And our ever faithful Moderator 'condones it'....

I'm outta here....

DB


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Charles said:


> Well, 280 grain ammo is awfully big. A 280 grain projectile moving at 200 fps yields about 25 foot pounds of energy. A .22 long rifle will give you about 120 foot pounds of energy. A .22 caliber air rifle shooting a 14 grain pellet at 1000 fps will give you 31 foot pounds of energy. Just on the basis of pure energy considerations, I would be skeptical ... I am not saying it could NOT be done, just that it is extremely unlikely.
> 
> Have a look at the Power Rangers thread:
> 
> ...





oldmiser said:


> I would check out A+ slingshots Perry has a Lever Bow...at a good price...that may just be what you will need
> 
> if you plan on deer hunting..Just in my opinion~AKAoldmiser





NaturalFork said:


> If you want to shoot large game with a slingshot, an arrow with a very sharp broadhead is the only way to go.


I asked about power with this setup, i understand that a slingbow would be effective (i know some guys that terrorise the hog community here with hfx slingshots) , but im not looking into that.



youcanthide said:


> The shot stunned or maimed the deer long enough to slit its throat not killed it outright. I would have took the same shot in a survival situation but otherwise I think its irresponsible.


Alright. so im not going to try that until the apocalypse..



DogBox said:


> ...And I thought THIS had been THRASHED OUT BEFORE AND GIVEN THE THUMB'S DOWN... so why, please, must you go on about it again??
> 
> And our ever faithful Moderator 'condones it'....
> 
> ...


For people like you i asked to not fucking tell me your opinion.


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

The deer was knocked out by the slingshot projectile, and the person who shot him ran upto the deer and slit its throat as YOUCANTHIDE stated. I have the e2e slingshot and compared it to some layered theraband gold shooting 5/8" steel bearings and the tbg setup had more destructive power on steel cans. But the good thing about those huge 7/16 tubes is the longevity. they last forever, just keeps on shooting and the 5/8 steel balls are pretty massive and will hunt pretty good on a wide range of different game types. The biggest game I've taken with the large tubes, was porcupine and one from a pretty good distance but that might be largest game I'd go for, at least if I wasnt going hungry. Starving to death on the other hand, I'd shoot the deer and hope that the large projectile hits it right on the button, and knocks it out or stuns it long enough for me to make the kill with a large knife


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Nicholson said:


> The deer was knocked out by the slingshot projectile, and the person who shot him ran upto the deer and slit its throat as YOUCANTHIDE stated. I have the e2e slingshot and compared it to some layered theraband gold shooting 5/8" steel bearings and the tbg setup had more destructive power on steel cans. But the good thing about those huge 7/16 tubes is the longevity. they last forever, just keeps on shooting and the 5/8 steel balls are pretty massive and will hunt pretty good on a wide range of different game types. The biggest game I've taken with the large tubes, was porcupine and one from a pretty good distance but that might be largest game I'd go for, at least if I wasnt going hungry. Starving to death on the other hand, I'd shoot the deer and hope that the large projectile hits it right on the button, and knocks it out or stuns it long enough for me to make the kill with a large knife


What kind of speeds are you getting with the 7/16 tubes and 5/8 ? i would not shoot 5/8 steel because its too expensive but if im not wrong its the same as 14mm lead which i can cast...


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

DogBox said:


> And our ever faithful Moderator 'condones it'....
> 
> I'm outta here....
> 
> DB


You are seriously in error if you think I condone shooting deer with a slingshot. I do not see that anything I have posted would lead you to that conclusion. I will state categorically that I do NOT condone such an effort. The question asked was whether or not there would be enough power. My answer was that I do not think so.

Cheers ... Charles


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

And I my friend only suggested a different type of shooter for your deer hunting adventure over a regular slingshot that want

ment to shoot round ammo or rocks...Being the the regular slingshot would be underpowered for the kill was all...

As this is a open public forum...you will get ..different opinions from members of this forum..good ,,bad or other wise

Have a great time with your quest~~AKAOldmiser


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

HuntingISR, I just recieved my chrony that made the delievery today. I want to find out some speeds tonight if I could squeeze in the time. I will let you and the forum know what kind of speed I'm getting. I could speculate all day, but really I need numbers too thats why I got the chronograph...FINALLY! lol


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

oldmiser said:


> And I my friend only suggested a different type of shooter for your deer hunting adventure over a regular slingshot that want
> 
> ment to shoot round ammo or rocks...Being the the regular slingshot would be underpowered for the kill was all...
> 
> ...


I would not hunt deer with a slingshot - as members here told me that it will not will the deer and its inhuman, but my question is - why does shooting a deer in the lung with a #45 recurve bow is ok but shooting a deer in the head with (as charles said) 25 fpe which is enough not only to stun a deer but to kill a deer with a between the eyes headshot is not ok ...



Nicholson said:


> HuntingISR, I just recieved my chrony that made the delievery today. I want to find out some speeds tonight if I could squeeze in the time. I will let you and the forum know what kind of speed I'm getting. I could speculate all day, but really I need numbers too thats why I got the chronograph...FINALLY! lol


congrats on the crony.

i remember i saw your porcupine topic..

we here have ton of indian porcupine but the shots out of my low powered slingshot never kills them immediately.

getting some bigtubes for sure !


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## youcanthide (Jun 16, 2013)

HuntingISR said:


> oldmiser said:
> 
> 
> > And I my friend only suggested a different type of shooter for your deer hunting adventure over a regular slingshot that want
> ...


.

Because with a bow pinpoint accuracy and repeatable accuracy can be achieved. The kill zone for a bow is relatively large compared to a headshot. To achieve the energy needed to kill a deer you will need heavy bands, this will make planting your chosen ammo onto a target no bigger than 3 inch at over 10 metres away but most likely further pretty hard.

Again with the arrow once you have shot it your going to get penetration of the organs which will lead to blood loss and organ failure. Even if the deer runs after hit. With the leadball if it doesnt put it down straight away or stuns the deer, the deer's gonna run, with no blood trail to find it if eventually it does drop


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

The big tubes arent for everybody Hunter. I'm an outdoors person and I was drawn to the big tubes because of the longevity,and they do last for a looong time. It definitely takes some getting used to. First of all the pull is very heavy and the tubes need to be broken in. Also to get the power out of them you need to pull them waaay back. there is not much power unless you pull them way back. I challenged myself to wear out some new big tubes to see how long they last and after the first day of shooting I was a little sore the next day. Man i've shot so many shots for so long and the tubes are still shooting, they are probably on their last leg tough I'm seeing pretty good wear, probably after at least a couple thousand shots i mean I shoot it every day, hundreds of shots a day. On the up side, I pull out my other slingshots and my accuracy really improved on all levels. I guess the muscle needed to shoot accurately with the big tubes was built up and made it easier to shoot accurately with the lighter pull slingshots. If power is what you want then layerd tbg is the way to go. I'm used to the big tubes by now, I like the longevity plus I like shooting big ammo So I love em for what they are. I was hoping to use my chronograph but I think they gave me a busted one, it's not working. All this being said when I go out on hunts, I've caught more game with 45 cal lead to 50 cal lead and steel bearings. These are still my prefered set up because I'm not running into a porcupine or anything that size that size very often that calls for more 'wallop'. One more thing I have the e2e slingshot and then I have the a+ bth and the a+ bth 2.0, I'd recommend the ones from a+ they are half as expensive and its a polished slingshot to be proud of. I was a little sad with the e2e slingshot afer about 4 days I notice a chunk of wood chipped off where the tube goes into the fork I was thinking a slingshot of that size should be a little more robust. maybe I'll give him a call soon and see if he will fix it for me, for the price I payed he should be able to do at least that. No power difference between the 3 slingshots that I can tell on the destructive power on soup cans.


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Nicholson said:


> The big tubes arent for everybody Hunter. I'm an outdoors person and I was drawn to the big tubes because of the longevity,and they do last for a looong time. It definitely takes some getting used to. First of all the pull is very heavy and the tubes need to be broken in. Also to get the power out of them you need to pull them waaay back. there is not much power unless you pull them way back. I challenged myself to wear out some new big tubes to see how long they last and after the first day of shooting I was a little sore the next day. Man i've shot so many shots for so long and the tubes are still shooting, they are probably on their last leg tough I'm seeing pretty good wear, probably after at least a couple thousand shots i mean I shoot it every day, hundreds of shots a day. On the up side, I pull out my other slingshots and my accuracy really improved on all levels. I guess the muscle needed to shoot accurately with the big tubes was built up and made it easier to shoot accurately with the lighter pull slingshots. If power is what you want then layerd tbg is the way to go. I'm used to the big tubes by now, I like the longevity plus I like shooting big ammo So I love em for what they are. I was hoping to use my chronograph but I think they gave me a busted one, it's not working. All this being said when I go out on hunts, I've caught more game with 45 cal lead to 50 cal lead and steel bearings. These are still my prefered set up because I'm not running into a porcupine or anything that size that size very often that calls for more 'wallop'. One more thing I have the e2e slingshot and then I have the a+ bth and the a+ bth 2.0, I'd recommend the ones from a+ they are half as expensive and its a polished slingshot to be proud of. I was a little sad with the e2e slingshot afer about 4 days I notice a chunk of wood chipped off where the tube goes into the fork I was thinking a slingshot of that size should be a little more robust. maybe I'll give him a call soon and see if he will fix it for me, for the price I payed he should be able to do at least that. No power difference between the 3 slingshots that I can tell on the destructive power on soup cans.


Im not planning on getting an e2e slingshot, just the tubes, i would like them for the same reason, because they last very long. and im positive that i can draw them good.


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## youcanthide (Jun 16, 2013)

Have you got a pic of the e2e slightshot mate?


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

[/quote]
I would not hunt deer with a slingshot - as members here told me that it will not will the deer and its inhuman, but my question is - why does shooting a deer in the lung with a #45 recurve bow is ok but shooting a deer in the head with (as charles said) 25 fpe which is enough not only to stun a deer but to kill a deer with a between the eyes headshot is not ok ...
[/quote]

Frankly, I do not believe that 25 fpe is enough to kill a deer in most conceivable circumstances. And it would take a very well placed shot to stun a deer with that low energy. A .22 pellet rifle at 1000 fps generates more fpe, and I doubt that anyone would think that was an adequate weapon for hunting deer, even though the pellet rifle will be vastly more accurate than a slingshot.

And of course, energy is not the only consideration. A bow kills by bleeding. Tape your mouth shut so you cannot breathe through it and hold your nose so you cannot breathe. Then see how far you can run. You will not get far. A #45 recurve bow will easily put a broadhead through both lungs ... and the target area for that is very large. Here is a typical side view with the target area indicated.









The target area is in excess of 5 x 10 inches. Such a shot, with the consequent bleeding, will mean that the animal cannot breathe ... it is not going to go far. Even if only one lung is penetrated, it will not take the animal long to bleed out. Included in that target area is the heart, and of course a hit there will be quickly fatal. Shooting a deer with a slingshot will not result in such damage.

Cheers .... Charles


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

YOUCANTHIDE, I dont have a picture of it yet, bet there are pics on primitivesupply.com. I just pulled the slingshot out just now and i'm looking at it. the exotic wood split in the middle right down to the multiplex core just from sitting.  (I'm going to e-mail him right after this). this slingshot is fun to shoot because its "THERE" It's the biggest slingshot that I have. Its rough in some spots but.. the name primitive supply.. I like it.

HUNTER, I was able to do a few shots on my chrony outside. The temperature was 26 degrees Farenheiht. I kept getting errors but I was able to capture a few numbers for the big tubes and 5/8" steel. keep in mind the cold temperature seemed to have a pretty negetive effect on the tubes performance. On the low I recorded 146 fps on the high I got 154 fps, Moral of the story, Dont go for deer with a slingshot when its 26 degrees outside lol. I'd definitely still hunt other game with it, it still passed the poor slingshot hunters ballistic "soup can" test 

BY the way Im sure I was getting better fps in the summer


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## benzidrine (Oct 14, 2013)

To answer to why shooting a deer with an arrow is okay and not ideal with a large metal ball lies with physics.

An arrow has extremely good sectional density, what this means in basic terms is that the weight is distributed over a long cylinder and that means the impact point is small and has a lot of weight behind it which is great for penetration.

A steel ball has terrible sectional density. It is an evenly distributed sphere which means its ability to penetrate a substance is low.

Imagine a knitting needle and a steel ball that both weigh the same. By hand pushing the needle into a side of beef is going to be much easier than pushing that ball into it.

This is also why an arrow can in some circumstances penetrate further than some pistol bullets. It's sectional density is many times better than a bullet. Of course guns can be made larger while bows are limited by human endurance, so guns always win the power race in the end.


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

A conical bullet is almost impossible to hit point first out of a slingshot..bullets are for guns, bores, rifling etc.. A conical bullet or any other bullet will hit at random orientations. I would bet if you used a deer skull as a target, say 30 meters/yards away, darn close to shoot a deer, unless you shoot tame deer) you would not be able to penetrate the skull with a rag over it to simulate skin and other tissue with any slingshot and slingshot ammo you desire to test. The brain of a deer isn't as vulnerable as one may think...after all they've evolved to live, not to die.

A sling bow would be the best bet but you'd need a special set up to use a nock. You can get ball nocks from a slingshot maker which is a merchant on this forum to use in slingshot pouches so no change from ball ammo to ball nocked arrow is needed. However, powerful bands are needed to propel an arrow at a meaningful velocity to pierce the hide and luckily hit between two ribs to enter the heart. Merely shooting a deer in a lung isn't going to kill it outright, it will run away and die later. A heart shot will kill the deer within a 100 yard run or so but you would be lucky to hit the heart from a meaningful distance..the size of a large orange AND not hit a rib, you've got a very slim chance of hitting the heart.

A gun kills by hydrostatic pressure, read, SHOCK as the bullet passed through flesh and bone at super sonic speed. The shock produces trauma and often stops the heart if it's close to it. The shock also plays havoc with the lungs and heart all at the same time. So it's not the bullet hole so much as the impact shock (hyudrostatic wave) that downs the animal in its tracks. You could say the heart lung complex almost explodes.

A bow can kill a deer quickly if and only if the arrow pierces the heart, if it only pierces one lung, the deer runs off, suffers, and dies days later if at all, by mostly blood loss or infection...a miserable death. By luck if an arrow pierces the spinal cord on the neck the deer is paralysed and can't move, it's heart stops, it can't breathe (nerves to the lungs are severed hopefully) and nerves to the rest of the body are severed. It's unlikely to kill a deer with a spine shot although we preferred a neck spinal shot with our .308s, the deer dropped in its tracks and died almost immediately. Scopes, 100-300 yard range and a very steady rest for the rifle were needed...not a slingshot.

Those who think they can kill a deer with a slingshot are relying mostly on extreme luck rather than kill power...and you will ikely have to do some wicked tracking through hill and dale and brambles to catch the rascal. While proponents of sling bows also sell sling bows or sell "something" a prepper might want, to me it's a rather useless endeavor. Either use a bow or preferably a rifle designed for larger game. A .22 rim fire rifle is fine, albeit illegal, if you can do a brain shot through the eye or ear, a spine shot dead center to clip the spinal cord in between vertebrae joints, (lots of luck) or a heart shot dead on accurately without hitting a rib to either deflect the bullet to miss the heart or stop or slow the bullet down so much it's ineffectual. Although I would prefer a .22 semi auto rifle as the ultimate survival gun, it's got it's limitations for power and range.

I would never condone hunting deer with a slingshot, sling bow or the like but if you want to try, go ahead, check hunting laws of course and know that likely the wounded deer will run off and all you would have done is make an animal suffer for nothing.

I will add that the pull required to launch an arrow at a meaningful velocity to enter an animal such as a deer is going to be a horrendous pull. A slingshot is a small held device, a bow is much easier to hold to sustain a weighty pull...a sling snot is the devel to hold with say a fifty pound pull. Hunting bows commonly have above a 50 lb pull and I challenge you to be accurate with a slingshot with that amount of pull to propel an arrow to drive it home to the heart. Remember the size of a deer heart is small and the ribs protect it.

Back to the myth of a conical bullet shot from a sling shot killing a deer. Shoot a conical bullet fifty times in your catch box. I doubt that it would penetrate the drop cloth you use in the catch box let alone a deer skull and deer hide over it.

chuck.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Zippo,

Even though my slings with 5/16OD tubes or equivalent and 314gr lead sinkers will do this to 3/4" sheet rock at about 18yds (it is going out at 175fps, has 21fpe, and almost 55,000u/m ... (a.22 at the muzzle has about 128fpe and ~48,000u/m !) ......... At 20 yds the 314gr is going at ~160fps, 18fpe and 50,240u/m









I would have to be extremely fortunate to kill a deer ..... not saying it could not be done, just say'n !

wll


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