# which ammo for grouse and rabbits



## Nicholson

(HEXNUTS), 9.5MM LEAD BALL, .40 CALIBER LEAD BALL, .45 CALIBER LEAD BALL, .50 CALIBER LEAD BALL

I am wondering which lead ball mold to get next. The hunting will be mainly ptarmigan, grouse, and rabbit. I threw the hexnut option in there because I picked up a few hexnuts today and was impressed with them while shooting into soup cans and was curious if there was any difference in effectiveness from lead. I was thinking to save on lead with the 9mm option but I am more interested in performance. What do you guys think, Is there really that much of a difference?


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## rapidray

You are in Alaska...carry a little bit of all and use accordingly!


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## Henry the Hermit

Nicholson said:


> (HEXNUTS), 9.5MM LEAD BALL, .40 CALIBER LEAD BALL, .45 CALIBER LEAD BALL, .50 CALIBER LEAD BALL
> 
> I am wondering which lead ball mold to get next. The hunting will be mainly ptarmigan, grouse, and rabbit. I threw the hexnut option in there because I picked up a few hexnuts today and was impressed with them while shooting into soup cans and was curious if there was any difference in effectiveness from lead. I was thinking to save on lead with the 9mm option but I am more interested in performance. What do you guys think, Is there really that much of a difference?


Any of those except hex nuts and .50 lead should work fine. I would go with either 9.5mm or .40 lead, for that specific game. The reason I wouldn't choose .50 is it takes a lot more power to drive that heavy ball to decent velocity, and more power means harder draw and lower accuracy.


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## LBurnett

Try using the search function and putting 'hunting ammo', there have been many topics on this matter before, anything above 9.5mm should be fine! but it all depends on shooters ability


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## Charles

My preference is cylindrical slugs ... you can cut off rebar, redi rod, or old bolts ... see the recent discussion:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/20842-using-pieces-of-a-rod-aka-rods-as-ammo/

In particular, I cast my own hunting slugs with a wooden mold, as discussed here:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/13778-cast-hunting-ammo-with-simple-wooden-mold/

The cylindrical shape tumbles in flight, but is just as accurate as round ball at slingshot appropriate ranges. No matter how the cylinder tumbles, it always hits with an edge, which will cut into the game and do a lot of damage. My lead cylinders are 3/8 inch in diameter and .5 inch long. They weigh about 140 grains.

I agree with Henry that .50 lead ball is heavier than needed for that game. And he is dead on about the need for more power to drive them, and a corresponding heavier draw weight. And certainly for me, the heavier the draw weight, the less accurate I am.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Arturito

Charles said:


> My preference is cylindrical slugs ... you can cut off rebar, redi rod, or old bolts ... see the recent discussion:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/20842-using-pieces-of-a-rod-aka-rods-as-ammo/
> 
> In particular, I cast my own hunting slugs with a wooden mold, as discussed here:
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/13778-cast-hunting-ammo-with-simple-wooden-mold/
> 
> The cylindrical shape tumbles in flight, but is just as accurate as round ball at slingshot appropriate ranges. No matter how the cylinder tumbles, it always hits with an edge, which will cut into the game and do a lot of damage. My lead cylinders are 3/8 inch in diameter and .5 inch long. They weigh about 140 grains.
> 
> I agree with Henry that .50 lead ball is heavier than needed for that game. And he is dead on about the need for more power to drive them, and a corresponding heavier draw weight. And certainly for me, the heavier the draw weight, the less accurate I am.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


I agree Charles ... cylindrical ammo, mine are 1/2 threaded steel "rods" 12 to 15 mm long, 10 to 15 grams ... I am hunting the rabbits with the ss recently, to date I took only 4 ... this is the only photo I have (my first kill) and forgot (was anxious) to put the ss on top ...









The wound is in the other side (because my wife didn't wanted I show that) a head shot, fast and clean kill, the rod smashed just behind the eye and also broke his neck, almost beheaded bellow the skin ... I must clarify that I am not a hunter (even I kill them), nor have any trouble with hunting for eating or pest control ... that's why I will never shot animals for fun ...


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## AK Rick

Pest control is not part of hunting, it's pest cotrol and if your killing anything because killing is fun it's time to rethink why you are in the woods! There is nothing wrong with either but hunting doesnt fare well when thought of that way.......we have a horrible public image right now!

(Deep breath) Sorry but it's important too myself and the future of hunting that folks understand that we hunt to be part of the natural world first! Having to kill is the natural outcome of being a predator. My son and I take great pains to kill humanily when we have too. too show respect for the game at all times and to treat it in a manner that respects the gift we have recieved from it! You wont see high fives or celibrations at a harvest with anyone from my camp! We leave that for the horn porn addicts and TV shows!

You will see me and my son with our heads bowed for the loss of a life. You will see us move quickly and quietly to dress and transport the meat. And before we are finished you will see us face the head west and offer prayers of thanks, hope for a good journey to the next life and thanks for the gift we recieved.

For the record you guys have great hunting ethics! Better than the compound bow or rifle comunity!!!!! And FAR better than the sport killers we see fly in here every year! Thank you and give yourselves a pat on the back!!!!! The non hunters here too, from what I have seen so far!


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## AK Rick

PS my Brother Alaskan and I don't have the small animal densities you do. We have far fewer plants and a much harsher climate.......the idea there is game bouncing off every hill is a false one! Thats especially true of small game, at least for the little guys the hunting is FAR eaiser in the lower 48. Give ya an Idea.....less than 25% of moose hunters make a harvest, only about 10% who try harvest a dall sheep. I dont remeber ever going without a deer in michigan when I was healthy enough to hunt,


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## AK Rick

Charles
Would you mind sharing your effective range sir? As a distance shooter the word tumble makes me shudder and I'd like to mull over the physics a bit.........thanks!


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## Charles

AK Rick said:


> Charles
> Would you mind sharing your effective range sir? As a distance shooter the word tumble makes me shudder and I'd like to mull over the physics a bit.........thanks!


Sure ... 15 yards (meters here ... ) is about as far as I am comfortable taking a shot ... maybe 20 yards. The ammo I use will certainly do the job at that distance and further, but my chance of hitting my target diminishes very quickly at 20+ yards. My eye sight is certainly not what it used to be; my ability to clearly see the head of a rabbit or the head of a grouse is pretty poor beyond 20 yards. I like to blame my inabilities on physical infirmities, rather than on lack of skill ... :rofl:

As for the physics of it, at the velocities of slingshot ammo and given the mass of the ammo (around 140 grains), air deflection is minimal. I lay the ammo on its side in the pouch. As long as that is done with the center of mass of the ammo at the center of the pouch, the force of the bands is centered on the center of mass of the ammo. The ammo tumbles around its center of mass. As long as the ammo is symmetric, the tumbling will not cause any gyration of the center of mass.

Of course, all that mumbo-jumbo in the previous paragraph is pretty theoretical. In practical terms, I find I am just as accurate with cylindrical ammo as I am with ball ammo. Shot to shot variation due to my technique is easily greater than what would be caused by tumbling ammo. I can only suggest that you try it ... as in all things, your mileage may vary ...

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Arturito

AK Rick ... this is hairy issue ... you are right, hunters have bad reputation mainly because we are living in the XXI century and most people simply takes the packed meat from the store and doesn't care if that "meat" once lived in dignity fulfilling its natural cycle ... a great hypocrisy ... (worst of all is that meat comes from "factories" where animals suffer mistreatment) ... I kill the rabbits and eat them ... but I don't kill small birds that has nothing to eat ... anyway the meaning of "fun" is where I have the problem ... for me it's just killing for killing ... in that case I prefer to shot the can ...


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## AK Rick

Hunting is not killing for the sake of a kill.....it's always better to shoot cans that stoop to that level. Thanks Arturito


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## peakshooter

Hi,

I totally agree about the ethics of hunting and for expressing respect at all times and gratitude when a kill has been made.

In the discussion about ammo I'm curious about folks experience with hex nuts. I find the M8 or M10 sized nuts really effective and the edges also have a cutting effect, similar to the cylindrical rod pieces, out to about 25 yards.

Whats your experience with them?


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## Arturito

peakshooter, I've tested hex nuts and are less accurate than the cylindrical ammo, for ss hunting 10 gram slugs lead or steal are the best in my opinion, good penetration and momentum, in my case I prefer steel because lead is reported to harm health in the long term ...


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## Nicholson

Easy there now AK Rick. My initial reason for posting the question was that I wanted an answer for an effective type of ammo needed for hunting. I never once said I was hunting for fun or ignorantly killing off everything I see. I am an Alaskan Native, and where I'm from a hunter is looked at as being a provider and is in good standing with society as long as it is done legally and humanely. I don't want to leave a bad taste in anybodys' mouth but I don't think I need to justify myself for asking what I think was a positive and appropriate question for the hunting section of this forum. Again sorry AK Rick for any bad thoughts I gave you with my question, it wasn't meant to be taken negatively.


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## peakshooter

Arturito - thanks for your response. What ranges are you shooting to test the accuracy?

Its been a few years since I tried cutting up some threaded steel barfor slugs and I think the diameter was 6mm. At the time I thought the slugs were good, but preferred steel balls or hex nuts. Will have to try again using thicker bar - am always willing to learn!

The hex nuts I use weigh 4.7 grams/72 grain (M8 size) or 10.2 gram/157 grains and I think their optimum accurate range is under 15 metres, 25 absolute maximum.

I also use M8 nuts with a piece of SG shot (think thats 0 buckshot size?) hammered into the cavity, these weigh 8.4 grams, 129 grains, again I keep the hunting distance down to under 20 yards.

I mostly target shoot for fun rather than hunt.


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## Nicholson

Nicholson said:


> Easy there now AK Rick. My initial reason for posting the question was that I wanted an answer for an effective type of ammo needed for hunting. I never once said I was hunting for fun or ignorantly killing off everything I see. I am an Alaskan Native, and where I'm from a hunter is looked at as being a provider and is in good standing with society as long as it is done legally and humanely. I don't want to leave a bad taste in anybodys' mouth but I don't think I need to justify myself for asking what I think was a positive and appropriate question for the hunting section of this forum. Again sorry AK Rick for any bad thoughts I gave you with my question, it wasn't meant to be taken negatively.


AK Rick, I'm sure I read your post the wrong way and I apologize for that. I took offense a lil because I thought I was being accused of waste and meaningless killing of animals both of which in my culture is a slap in the face and is punished accordingly. Alaska is blessed with an abundance of wildlife and good hunting in part because of good management from the Alaska Department of Fish and Game and the ethics that most Alaskans practice. Sorry AK Rick for the misunderstanding and thank you everybody for your comments and advise.


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## Arturito

@peakshooter, I practice from 5 to 15 meters (yards) I am not accurate beyond that distance, the few kills I have done are about 8 to 12 meters (yards) for threaded steel rod (very cheap and easy to find) I use 1/2 inch x 12mm that will be +/- 10 grams ...

guys maybe I am the culprit of this misunderstanding ... sorry ... but I always make clear my point at the beginning because some people blamed me that I kill for "fun" ...


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## peakshooter

Thanks Arturito, I'll give that size a try.


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## AK Rick

Nicholson no not at all brother........ I knew you were not wasting anything! It was another post that I felt needed some clairty about the differance between pest control and hunting. Sorry man I gather you too understand the challanges subsistance hunters face and I get a bit, well you saw.

Loving this snow man! Lynx is open, you gonna get out? Help the hares recover a bit.

ps folks I eat lynx and call them in, still hunting in my book. Just not the table fare you might pick.


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## Charles

I have never eaten any cat .... domestic, lynx, or cougar. I hear that cougar meat is sort of sweet. How does lynx taste?

Cheers .... Charles


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## Henry the Hermit

Charles said:


> I have never eaten any cat .... domestic, lynx, or cougar. I hear that cougar meat is sort of sweet. How does lynx taste?
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


Domestic Cat tastes like Tacos.


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## Charles

Henry in Panama said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never eaten any cat .... domestic, lynx, or cougar. I hear that cougar meat is sort of sweet. How does lynx taste?
> 
> Cheers .... Charles
> 
> 
> 
> Domestic Cat tastes like Tacos.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm .... Maybe that's what I have been getting at the local Mexican food joint!!! :rofl:

Cheers ..... Charles


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## beaverman

Henry in Panama said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have never eaten any cat .... domestic, lynx, or cougar. I hear that cougar meat is sort of sweet. How does lynx taste?
> 
> Cheers .... Charles
> 
> 
> 
> Domestic Cat tastes like Tacos.
Click to expand...

i always thought it was more of a quesadilla taste.


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## Toddy

Having now tried the slugs Charles has talked about, I must say that I'm well impressed. I am getting at least as good accuracy as ball and the they seem to drop the small game I hunt superbly.I had a friend make me an alluminium mould with the slugs 10mm X 13mm. I thought these were going to be a little light tbh at around 130 grains, but so far so good.


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## Charles

Toddy said:


> Having now tried the slugs Charles has talked about, I must say that I'm well impressed. I am getting at least as good accuracy as ball and the they seem to drop the small game I hunt superbly.I had a friend make me an alluminium mould with the slugs 10mm X 13mm. I thought these were going to be a little light tbh at around 130 grains, but so far so good.


Thanks for the report, Toddy. I am delighted to hear they are working well for you.

Cheers .... Charles


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## AK Rick

It's kinda gamey if not cooked well but sorta like a sweet roast beef, less fatty and finer grained but not at all bad table fare. Better than a rutty caribou or whale meat thats fer dang sure!


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## Charles

AK Rick said:


> It's kinda gamey if not cooked well but sorta like a sweet roast beef, less fatty and finer grained but not at all bad table fare. Better than a rutty caribou or whale meat thats fer dang sure!


Saying it is better than rutty caribou or whale is to [email protected] it with faint praise!!! I think my old boots would be better than that lot! :rofl:

I am not surprised about the gamey aspect. I think all wild meats need to be cooked differently than store bought fare. But if cooked properly, most all of it is pretty good. For sure, if I ever have a chance to try lynx, I will not hesitate.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Berkshire bred

i have killed rabbits with 9.5mm steel but the can be quite hardy so i prefer to use 12mmsteel and go for a heart and lung shot.


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