# Elements of Accuracy (Steady Hands)



## gonene1

I am a few weeks shooter , have about 1000-2000 shots and gained some accuracy.

I understood some basic elements like how to hold the frame , and how to hold the pouch.

my shots from 10 meters still goes sometimes 10cm too far high, or too far to the left or right or too far down.

I noticed that i have trouble steadying my hand when aiming , and i get about 1-2mm movements , with about two movements each second.

I realized that these small hand movements from 10meters can translate to 5-10cm on the target.

to check if it's the hand movement or some other element that cause me to miss my target I decided to get closer, much much closer.

I took 10 shots from just 1.5meters and all of them went into a 1inch circle. (I wished i could do this from 10m).

so i realized my hands where not steady enough for 10m shooting.

so i have a better understanding on how to hold the frame , and a better understanding on how to hold the pouch.

but i don't understand hot can i stop this 1-2mm hand movement , and steady my aim on the target.

When i look at Bill Hays videos i see that he has a very steady hands, but he also looks like a very very strong man.

I went changed my tubes to smaller tubes and they are much easier to pull, but my hand still has this small movement.

even if i only point my finger at the target i get these movements...

so maybe it's not about my strength?

how do you steady your hand and aim on the target??


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## unkraut

Moin moin,

Is it really?
Or is it still on hold, and release the ball?
-
If you think you have too much pull on the latex bands. Take nevertheless times lighter ammunition. I use 8.2mm steel balls (ball Winnie) with draw weights of 4 to 5kg in butterfly style. TB Black or blue
That is so low that keeps you relaxed ....
Otherwise, build muscles, which means tranieren tranieren, and practice practice practice.
-
Span times but the Slingshot firmly. As if you'd keep them ..... and try again ...... herrauszufinden to whether it is on hold the slingshot, or at solving the ball ....
What can be, that's the ball when it is released after accelerating, the leather, abuts the latex, or the leather, or the attachment of leather on latex, and so a little push gets. Apart shots in some high speed.






https://www.youtube.com/user/TobseB79/videos

That does not happen in my case, I glue the latex firmly on leather.






Greetings from Germany


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## gonene1

Let me make it clear that even without a band just aiming with my hand i have small movements.

when i aim with the slingshot the movements keep the target go around and around (just a bit).

one half second i have it bulls eye in my sight and the next half second it is off.

sometime if i get the timing just right i manage to release the shot just as it get on the center of the target , and with this timing it also hits bulls eye.

but most of the time, even when i have the target right on the spot, by the time i release the ball, my hand moved 1mm to somewhere else and it hits off.

Maybe this sounds familiar:

I make sure i hold the pouch right before i draw, maybe even make a trial draw.

then i draw and aim.

i get the target in my sight.

i gaze to the bands to make sure they are alined one under the other. (target is lost...)

i get back to the sight

and search for the target

i have it

i try to fix my aim on the target but it shakes, just a bit but enough.

I saw a video on youtube of some target shooters that did not steady their hands and still hit every time.

they always started aiming too high, and let their hand drop slowly to the target , and released the ball while still moving their hands.

they did not even steady the aim.

but they spoke Spanish, i i could not understand a thing, i don't know when they released the ball or how they aim.

In general what i am asking is if there are some techniques ,like *holding your breath *, or something to minimize the hand movements.

Thanks


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## Rayshot

For me hand movement is normal. Largely it is a matter of timing for me when to shoot. But steadying the hand while moving is a help. What I mean is working to control the movement in the pattern of movement.


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## SlingshotBill

I think rifle, handgun, archery and slingshot marksmanship all crossover and there's not to many books on slingshots (3) but there's a plethora about all the others, listed above. I think paladin presses book The Ultimate Sniper and Ed Migivern's book Fast and Fancy talks about hand movement and breathing pattern a bit.


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## Tentacle Toast

Maybe try to"aim" without the slingshot, & in a single motion, raise, draw, & release, a la "instinct" shooting. I don't shake, but I find my accuracy takes a dip if I take too long aiming. Maybe just try reducing your aim time...


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## calinb

Maybe try to"aim" without the slingshot, & in a single motion, raise, draw, & release, a la "instinct" shooting. I don't shake, but I find my accuracy takes a dip if I take too long aiming. Maybe just try reducing your aim time...

I'm a newbie when it comes to SSs but I'm a solid Rifleman (Appleseed, numerous long range big game kills, etc.). I think you have a good point here.

@gonene1

"Fussing" the shot can cause one's hold to wander more. (It always wanders a little--that's natural, unless you are some kind of robot!) Some people try to take the shot immediately upon coming up on the aim point. That's how my dad shoots and, even at 85, he's still a very good shot with both a handgun and a rifle. I try to limit my hold time but still time the release/trigger pull against the inevitable wanderings. Most competent firearms match shooters will tell you that it's best to time your trigger pull with when you see your front sight or crosshairs (or the band "line" using single line SS aiming, for example) wandering into the target aimpoint / desired point of impact (POI). If you release when you think you've wandered all the way to the desired POI or are "on it," you are too late. The U.S. military match shooting teams use electronics and cameras to help competitors find the inward-going trigger release point. I'm sure other groups do too.

Another thing you could try is a tight fitting lanyard. I equate it to shooting with a rifle sling. For most SSs, you want to tighten your lanyard until you can barely get it over your hand. I put a length of surgical tubing over my 550 paracord lanyard to soften its impression into my skin where it makes contact with my wrist and make it more comfortable. I included some 4070 in a recent Dankung tubing order just to try for this purpose too. If adjusted correctly, the lanyard should jam up against your wrist and oppose the force of the band / tube tension when they are pulled. You can position it by pulling the lanyard a bit fore and aft on your wrist and get different amounts of support, to a small extent too. The grippiness of the surgical tubing helps with this. You should be able to completely loosen your grip and the SS should still stay in position against tensioned bands / tubes. Nevertheless, I shoot with a small amount of grip pressure.

I'm still a newbie who has probably only shot a touch over 1000 rds. total. However, I feel that my previous firearms experience has helped me progress quickly and I'm happy with my progress. I can hit a soda pop can most of the time from 10 yards and my record at 10 meters is 3 out of 5 on the official-sized 10 m badge target. When I can do it more consistently, I'll setup a video camera for my first badge. :bouncy:


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## Bill Hays

Strength definitely helps when shooting a slingshot accurately.... For example, now that I've been spending so much time making slingshots and a lot less time working out... my belly's bigger, my arms are weaker and my "natural" accuracy has suffered.

BUT there is a way around it... Lanyards used as an armbrace, using lighter bands and pulling further, even changing up your pouch hold and release can help.... yet the single most effective way is what's already been mentioned... Timing

If you find it extremely difficult to hold on your target... then instead of trying to control the inevitable movement (usually up and down) by muscling it... take control of it by intentionally adding a little movement yourself... Exagerate the up and down just a little... time it and control it just enough so that the up stroke touches the target exactly like you want and release your shot at the apex.

With this technique even people with palsy can hit their mark with just a little practice.


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## gonene1

Thank you , everybody , now it seems to be vary clear , I just needed to add up two plus two.

I already knew that when i manage to get the release in good timing with the sight coming into the target, my shot hits accurately.

but i never knew where my hand will move next.

now i understand that i don't have to stop the little unintentional movements ...

Instead i should make a little bigger intentional movements which will give me the knowing of where the aim will point in the next 1/2 second.

Then release it in the right timing , instead of trying to keep it "fused" on the target.

just like calinb, i too am practicing for the 10m badge, but my record is only 2 out of 5

I hope to add this new understanding into my practice and maybe in a few weeks I'll manage to get good enough to start video taping for the badge myself.

about using lighter bands , i already went lighter from the original bands that came with the slingshot.

it came with 2 sets of 2050 tubes and one of 3060 tubes

even the 2050 where way to heavy for me.

I ordered 10m of 1745 from dankung.com , they arrived a couple of days ago, and i made a new set from them which was also longer then the original.

I am sorry to say that even though it helped a lot , the 1745 still feels too heavy.

I made another order for 1843 and 2040 and I'll try them when they arrive.

(i am using just 3/8 steel bbs)

arm brace is not a problem at the moment for me, because i use a Chinese slingshot "eagle of sniper" which has a wrist brace.

I also have a Barnett PRO DIABLO still in the box never went out, because i found out that i can't rely on the wrist brace , it does not "stop" the slingshot at the correct place and if i don't use force to correct this it will point too much to my right side .

I am actually looking into buying a regular slingshot.

I love the tubes because you only have to cut them to the correct length unlike cutting thera bands .

But most of the tube slingshots are small Chinese slingshots , and i am a 193cm tall guy with big hands , so i don't know which slingshot to choose.

Can someone suggest a slingshot for guys with big hands which can be used with tubes and is suitable for the total beginner, but is also easy to use and very accurate at aiming targets?

I don't need a powerful hunting slingshot (as of lately *In Israel *all kind Hunting is *illegal *anyways).

I need a good slingshot for target practice.

any suggestions?

Thanks again, for plenty of good info that all of you have provided.


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## calinb

gonene1 said:


> Can someone suggest a slingshot for guys with big hands which can be used with tubes and is suitable for the total beginner, but is also easy to use and very accurate at aiming targets?


Everyone has their favorites. I like the pinch grip and Bill Hays' ergo SSs (www.pocketpredator.com). For large hands? I'm several centimeters shorter than your height and I don't have particularly large hands, but I have some regular and oversize Boy Scout and sideshooter ergos. For me, I think the standard size is best, but the Hathcock Target Sniper (HTS) is nice and large and works with tubes or bands. Bill apparently licenses it to http://www.milbroproshotuk.com/ in the U.K. too. I don't think any other vendor quite matches the variety of SSs in Bill's ergo style as Bill! For other styles, there are countless options from many vendors. If you want to try a thumb brace style, Bill Hays has the large Seal Sniper in poly for only thirty bucks USD. I have a poly Seal Sniper and I think I'd just drill another hole a bit higher in it for tubes (others may have some advice about it's applicability, but the band tie hole seems to be too low for tubes to me) or you could get the Pocket PredatorPro Titanium attachment system for about ten more bucks and easily attach tubes or whatever you want. I guess there's no reason you can't tie tubes outside the forks (OTT) for TTF shooting too, but I defer to others again, because I've not tried it with my poly Seal Sniper.

Because I have a 3D printer and I'm quick at making and hacking CAD models, I've been able to try a bunch of stuff. I printed a Rambone and it would fit a hand larger than my 8" hand just fine, if you'd like to try a hammer grip. My favorite way to shoot it is with single tubes through the forks (tubes anchored using airsoft BBs from the front). I've not had a fork strike yet and there's no hand slap in this configuration.

If you've not seen this post yet, check out the PocketPredator sizing advice:

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/9865-the-pocket-predator-slingshot-thread/page-11#entry494607

Shooting a bunch of different slingshots might have actually slowed-down my progress a little bit, but I've also learned a lot about what I like! I'm sure my preferences will change in time as my skills improve and experiences increase in number. Given that we are both about at the same place, skill-wise, and learning quickly, you might like Bill's ergo side shooters too. I can see why they are very popular with newbies like us, because they provide excellent hand support and it's easy to maintain a very consistent grip on them. I get the feeling that the Seal Sniper tends to appeal to more advanced shooters.


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## gonene1

OK I am just back from practice, the two little boys where sleeping and the older one was in kinder garden, so my wife allowed herself to be very generous, and i had an hour++ for shooting.

I tried to use the ideas from this thread , and i am not sure if it had an immediate change for my accuracy, like most things i guess it will take time.

I must have shot about 200 times this practice, and at least 95% of them where in the A4 paper from 10m.

*I did notice one thing that did improve the accuracy big time.*

If I aim for the first part, and just when i have the target in my sight i "switch to intuitive" i get about 50% improvement.

what i mean is, when my target gets in my sight , if i stop trying to fix in in the sight, but instead, forgetting about the sight on the slingshot and just looking at the target, i get into a place where it feels (now!!!!) and it does hits much better.

It is strange that after an hour and quite a bit of fatigue my aim gets better.

*Maybe its like in karate kid , wax in wax out.*

I now understand why shooting slingshot is so *addictive *for the beginner.

For me as a beginner it is like *gambling *, and everyone know that gambling is addictive.

at the end of every practice i suddenly get 2 or 3 great shots in a row,

so

i say to myself: "wow that's great!, I'll shot 5 more great shots and then go home."

BuT

I miss these shots by a mile!!!!

So

I say to myself: I'll keep at it, just until the next good shot!"

and

after a few shots it get bulls eye.

i get excited and i say to myself: "I get it !!! now i get it!!! , If i shoot one more time it will be bulls eye as well, i am sure of it! , so , just this last one to make sure for sure and that's it!"

and i miss it just a bit.

so i say : " next one will be better, lets just make it now before calling it a day"

and so.... and so on... and another and yet another, until my wife is calling me , shouting on me over the phone to come back.


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## wll

Two great videos,, a suspender clip for your band attachment ...awesome....and super glue for pouch to band.

I'm not so sure I would use the pouch to band with super glue, but the clip attachment is awesome

wll


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## calinb

gonene1 said:


> OK I am just back from practice, the two little boys where sleeping and the older one was in kinder garden, so my wife allowed herself to be very generous, and i had an hour++ for shooting.


The more I practice, the more I think my release is usually what botches a shot, rather than the steadiness of my hold. Yesterday, I worked hard to try to release the ball evenly from my fingers from that 7 and 11 PM position (and hold a centered ball precisely at those positions in the first place), as Bill Hays instructs in his video. I got two 3/5s and one 5/5 (but still many more less than 3). I think I'll continue to work on not bumping the ball during my release. When I "focus" my mind on the release, I seem to shoot better.


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## gonene1

OK another day another practice.

I took 25 shots from 10m (i do feel i am getting a little bit more accurate)

Then i got to just 5m and too some other 25 shots.

This time i got them all into a 5cm(2inch) circle .

this raise another question ....

what's the best way to develop accuracy?

shoot from my goal distance inaccurately until i get better?

or , shoot from a distance from where i have good accuracy(5m), take a step back each time i get accurate at this new distance, and take another step back until i get to my goal distance (10m)?


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## calinb

what's the best way to develop accuracy?

shoot from my goal distance inaccurately until i get better?

or , shoot from a distance from where i have good accuracy(5m), take a step back each time i get accurate at this new distance, and take another step back until i get to my goal distance (10m)?

Again, speaking from a firearms background, I think it's important to be able to "call your shot" (predict where it is going right as you release it), and also inspect where it actually landed. By mentally "calling the shot," one's brain learns to correlate their physical composure and the sight picture to the result and improve faster.

One advantage of SSs compared to longer range firearms is you can usually see where the shots land from shooting distance. If you can do this, I don't think range matters. I've found that shooting into a couple of old towels, layered and draped over a rod as a backstop, has the advantage of providing a point of impact (POI) marker dent in the fabric, which fades in time (after the next shot or two). Try different fabrics and colors to find the best effect. This helps me to identify where my shots land.


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## gonene1

I can see where 90% of my shots hit.

I am pulling the bands only to my cheekbone so it is not too fast and unless i blinked i can see where it went.

But my logic for shooting up close is eliminating every element of accuracy like correct frame hold or pouch hold , bumper effect and other variables that effect accuracy.

I might be wrong but if you hold the pouch incorrectly and you get flyers and speed bump effects , that should be very noticeable even from 5m.

but if the hits are accurate from 5m but far less accurate from 10m , this must be due to steadiness and timing.

from 10m i see all of my misses , but i don't know how to isolate the cause of it being inaccurate, and consequently missing the part of my shooting that i should work on improving\correcting.

you (calinb) said earlier :"The more I practice, the more I think my release is usually what botches a shot, rather than the steadiness of my hold."

Until today I thought that i never got any fork hits, i thought maybe it's because i use a wrist brace shooter.

but today i saw that some black color got pealed off the fork revealing the silvery metallic color underneath .

after checking the fork more carefully i noticed about 7 little dents , and i new then, that I too got fork hits , i just did not understood that they happened when they did.

You can easily miss the reason of what went wrong in a shot.

But isn't it true that a fork hit or bad pouch release should become very clear from a close distance , when you are certain where you aimed , and a shot got to a totally different place?

Does it make any sense?

I really appreciate all of the good comments you give me.

thanks

PS: don't get me wrong, i do feel that i am getting better from day to day. (with the occasional day that almost nothing fly where it was supposed to.

PS2: I did found out that for some reason shooting at a small cup as a target, watching it get destroyed, (for some strange reason) makes my shots be more accurate then shooting at a target printed on paper.


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## calinb

gonene1 said:


> But my logic for shooting up close is eliminating every element of accuracy like correct frame hold or pouch hold , bumper effect and other variables that effect accuracy.
> 
> I might be wrong but if you hold the pouch incorrectly and you get flyers and speed bump effects , that should be very noticeable even from 5m.
> 
> but if the hits are accurate from 5m but far less accurate from 10m , this must be due to steadiness and timing.


Errors are simply magnified at long range (they scale)--especially given slingshot range and precision, where things like projectile trajectory spiral and wind drift are probably not usually significant factors. Large errors will be noticeable at short range (and obvious at longer range) but small errors may only become noticeable at long range. Select a range that is motivational for you but still allows you to discern errors and critique your own shooting. As someone who has spent over a 50 years learning a number of technical sports and also aviation (I'm a former airline pilot and a current FAA Gold Seal Flight Instructor), isolating the cause of errors just takes time--sometimes because they are occurring simultaneously on multiple fronts! In time, your performance improves on a variety of those fronts and you begin to correlate specific errors with their causes.

Most people have trouble zeroing a rifle scope or sight accurately (or even "getting on paper") simply because they are not terribly good shots in the first place and need to practice more to improve their consistency.


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## gonene1

I'd like to share some targets from today, because today i kind of made my record , with 5 shots closest together .

in number 1,2,3 you see my regular result, that i get most of the time. (number 3 shows two hits which loos like one hit.)

number 4 has one hit in the center (a 1/2 inch circle) , and four shots just to the right, one on the other.

(it's hard to see, but four shots did indeed get into that area.)

This target (number 4) was my last one that i took today.

This time i did not release the shot until i was confident it is just right.

I had aborted 3 shots in this target , when i saw i don't have it right and my hand started shaking. waited few seconds and made another draw.

all shots where made from 10m with 3/8 steel ball

.


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## gonene1

calinb said:


> If you want to try a thumb brace style, Bill Hays has the large Seal Sniper in poly for only thirty bucks USD. I have a poly Seal Sniper and I think I'd just drill another hole a bit higher in it for tubes (others may have some advice about it's applicability, but the band tie hole seems to be too low for tubes to me) or you could get the Pocket PredatorPro Titanium attachment system for about ten more bucks and easily attach tubes or whatever you want. I guess there's no reason you can't tie tubes outside the forks (OTT) for TTF shooting too, but I defer to others again, because I've not tried it with my poly Seal Sniper.


I have just ordered the big seal sniper poly, i hope I'd like it.

It cost less then many other slingshot that i considered and it looks much more ergonomic.

That being said, i also started to use Bill Hays suggestion about lowering the slingshot and than raising it to the target and release when it get into the sight. With practice it is starting to give good results.

Also i watched the instructional video from Bill as well, especially the part of the pouch hold, Bill talks about holding the ball itself and hours on the clock which i already got at the first view, but this time i notice something that he does but did not expressed in words.

He don't use the thumb pad (where it is soft tissue)for the grip, but goes all the way to the knuckle (where it is hard tissue).

I tried holding the ball with this part of my thumb, and what do you know... no more flyers!, the ball does where i aimed it at!

That was a great discovery!


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## Byudzai

this reminds me of my eagle eye shot at MWST. my left hand was wandering ALL OVER. jitters I guess!


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## calinb

gonene1 said:


> I have just ordered the big seal sniper poly, i hope I'd like it.


With any luck, Bill will have a large poly Seal Sniper in stock and get it shipped to you relatively quickly. It sounds like he's pretty busy with order backlogs right now but I'm sure it will be worth the wait--however long it takes.

That's an interesting discovery about the thumb position. It makes sense. I learned the release is important to my own further accuracy improvement and I'll have to try "choking-up" on the pouch with my grip too.

There's plenty to learn just by watching those videos. I watched carefully just to figure out how to quickly and gracefully load a ball into the pouch! I'm still not all that smooth at it.


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## Rob Herrington

Hello. You're a beginner and some of your shots at 10 meters are only 10 cm off, and then not every time, and you've already gotten better since this thread was opened? You're doing a lot better than I am, though it sounds like you have about twice as many practice sessions as I do. Keep up the good work.


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## gonene1

Hello. You're a beginner and some of your shots at 10 meters are only 10 cm off, and then not every time, and you've already gotten better since this thread was opened? You're doing a lot better than I am, though it sounds like you have about twice as many practice sessions as I do. Keep up the good work.

Thanks

I did not have the time these past few days for any practice beside some 15-20 plinking around the yard , but just a few days ago i got a new record, the practice for the 10m challenge, i got 5 of 5 shots in one target, and right after that one 3 shots of 5 in another.

There was some great advice here.

Only tonight i made a new set of lighter bands using 2040 tubes from Dankung , I went out for some night shots and they feel very light and easy to aim with.

I'll try them at target practice ASAP and when i get some 10m measuring tape I'll start filming the target shooting in video .


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## gonene1

so close , so close.

After i had already shot 5of5 and 3of5 and could do at least one 3of5 at each practice i went to make a video for the 10m badge .

suddenly i started shaking like a leaf and could not shot strait.

The best i could do was just getting close , but not close enough.

here is one 2of5 target .

i think that the camera and videotaping can make you shoot less then you are able to shoot .


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## calinb

I've been in a bit of slump lately myself, but maybe part of it is caused by changing slingshots, bands, ammo, etc. every day! I love trying different things and that's part of the fun for me. Flatband says the same in one of his videos and, though he's placed well in many SS matches (as high as 2nd place) he likes to collect and shoot a bunch of different SSs. I'm up to a dozen of 'em already!

The best i could do was just getting close , but not close enough.

Just today, I hung a soda pop can next to my 10 m badge sized targets to reminded myself how much easier the can is to hit than the 10 m target. I readily destroyed it and so maybe I'm not in such a bad slump after all! I can still hit that soda pop can 9 out of 10 times rather frequently, but 3/5 on the 10 m targets is very difficult for me still (like you, I once made 5 hits in a row). I'm not even going to start video recording until I can hit 3/5 most of the time and even 5/5 fairly often (like at least once per shooting session).


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## gonene1

calinb said:


> If you want to try a thumb brace style, Bill Hays has the large Seal Sniper in poly for only thirty bucks USD. I have a poly Seal Sniper and I think I'd just drill another hole a bit higher in it for tubes (others may have some advice about it's applicability, but the band tie hole seems to be too low for tubes to me)


Did you drill this additional hole in the end?

I just got my seal sniper , it shoots amazing with the set of flat bands that came with it.

But i just can't seem to make it work properly with tubes.

when i put tubes on it , i get a lot of flyers , something i only rarely get anymore with my older tube shooter.


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## calinb

gonene1 said:


> calinb said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you want to try a thumb brace style, Bill Hays has the large Seal Sniper in poly for only thirty bucks USD. I have a poly Seal Sniper and I think I'd just drill another hole a bit higher in it for tubes (others may have some advice about it's applicability, but the band tie hole seems to be too low for tubes to me)
> 
> 
> 
> Did you drill this additional hole in the end?
> I just got my seal sniper , it shoots amazing with the set of flat bands that came with it.
> But i just can't seem to make it work properly with tubes.
> when i put tubes on it , i get a lot of flyers , something i only rarely get anymore with my older tube shooter.
Click to expand...

I haven't tried tubes with my Seal Sniper yet. Have you studied the methods starting at 41:21 in Bill's video?





Maybe it will provide some ideas. I think that Bill sometimes says "over the top this way" when he means "outside the forks," but it's no big deal.

Personally, I think that the long forks of the Seal Sniper are suited to outside the forks / through the forks shooting. The problem with the existing hole is it's very low, leaving little space/projectile clearance for shooting tubes through the forks--hence, my interest in drilling a hole slightly higher. It's a long ways to go OTT with tubes from the existing hole! The second higher hole might also be useful for the single screw PredatorPro Titanium plate system.

Your old tube shooter has two holes/tube attach points per side. How do you have the Seal Sniper configured with tubes? How would you like to configure it with tubes? The reason I ask is I have over a dozen SSs already, including four from PocketPredator.com. My HDPE Seal Sniper would not be a terribly expensive platform on which to risk experimentation--especially because, living in the U.S., I can get a replacement rather easily.

I don't know if the edge distance would be appropriate for the single screw Titanium plate system (which I'd also like to try someday) but I could drill a second hole per fork leg slightly above the existing hole. This would enable your two tubes per side or a a looped tube in the new hole. I would also cut a slit to the hole at an angle from inside the forks to enable quick attachment of loops like the PocketPredator slingshot in Bill's video.

To me, the Seal Sniper's existing hole seems to be included more to enable the routing of flatband ties, rather than supporting tubes. I really like the design of that PredatorPro model starting at 41:21 in the video! I wonder why it's not offered for sale any longer. I might have to order a custom one someday!

This is where Bill puts the hole for the PPro attachment system. It should work for a looped band too, I think, but perhaps it's not in the ideal position for it:
http://slingshotforum.com/topic/41346-seal-sniper-from-bill-hayes/#entry513049

If you like your old band system, it makes sense to me to drill the second hole in the same tie groove as the existing hole (which terminates the tie groove) but just a bit higher.

I just found your Seal Sniper post from yesterday. I'll add some comments there later tonight too.

-Cal


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## markh791

sometimes have a roving hand myself if i've been practicing for a long time. i usually have a rest or take longer in-between shots. recently i've tried to move my aim through the target on a vertical line releasing when i think i'm on target.


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## birdmove

Though I have shot firearms and airguns for many years, I'm new to any form of "serious" slingshotting. Just yesterday I started getting some good results (for me, that is) with my Barnett Black Widow. Holding the device in my left hand and using my right/dominate eye, and using the upper (left) end of the slingshot fork as a sight, I am getting some improvement. I think the are rest/stabalizer is somehow helping me to be consistent. The Black Widow:

https://www.amazon.com/Barnet-Barnett-Black-Widow-Slingshot/dp/B015WSQ85A/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1528488381&sr=8-1&keywords=black+widow+slingshot

A similiar less expensive design:

https://www.amazon.com/Daisy-Outdoor-Products-988152-442-Slingshot/dp/B004T8RX22/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1528488381&sr=8-3&keywords=black+widow+slingshot

The forearm brace makes the slingshot harder to carry. My Trumark is very compact with no arm brace. I like the narrower forks on the Black Widow, and maybe that's why I tend to shoot that one with better results.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JU4354/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1


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## Slingshot Evangelist

What a great thread and informative posts. I really enjoyed reading about this topic. Glad someone pulled it up to the surface. It would be nice if similar topics could all be linked together.


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