# the humble 1745 tube...302fps!



## timdix

A beautiful day out in the countryside down under today,30C+.
I brought my humble 1745 shooter,single tube per side,60inch draw,roo pouch and a some of my new 10kg batch of OO buckshot (roughly same weight as 3/8 steel).
I was shooting down range 25 metres at a 2 foot paper target on a gum tree.
I was quite suprised by how punchy the rounds were,barely visible,burying themselves 2-3cm in the tree. 
Chrony testing when home with revealed I was averaging around 280fps! I sent a few down at the absolute max and....302fps! It cut pages down to page 266 in the yellow pages shot at a slight angle. Wow,the heat makes such a difference.

Take home message: light ammo=1 strand per side 1745 is the sweet spot. Chinese tubes have the potential to shoot like flats...if you stretch them to their limits and match the ammo well.
The best part is longevity is amazing,it just doesn't break. It does stretch though and you will need to shorten the bands every few hundred shots.
I now find them a superior choice to straight cut flats.


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## -SRS-45-

Good speed man,makes me wonder about redoing my speed tests on a hot day


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## hawk2009

I always have found them superior to flats they have so much more going for them than flats,but the majority of shooters are obsessed with flats.What most people go for is absolute maximum power and speed just what you are showing here, and I have no idea why as it is not needed and I suspect with many users when they receive their item maximum speed is rarely used if at all. As I have shown on my chrony tests all shooters have an anchor point most of my tests have been recorded pulling to my anchor point and a couple to the max the readings are a lot lower when pulling to the anchor point weather it is tubes or flats, which is a much more accurate reading of what you will be getting when shooting, when you see extremely high readings take I it with a pinch of salt because your not going to be getting that it is purely done as a selling point. I am curious to know how many actually hunt game with their slingshots, how many control vermin and how many target shoot, my suspicion would be most target shoot as they don't have the land to hunt on, if this is the case then why would you want absolute maximum speed and power I can only guess it's a macho thing.Something to show your friends but I know what I would sooner have and that's something that shoot's accurately has good power good speed and last's, I'm aware this post is going to ruffle feathers of the hardcore but it's not my intention it's just how I see it so don't take it personally Hawk.


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## timdix

I understand your sentiments Hawk but what I really want to get across here is not a macho thing but merely a message for those without a chrony: One doesn't need heavy bands to propel 3/8 steel down range with real impact. In fact I'm sure most people of average strength are MUCH slower with 4 and 6 strand 1745 or TB equivalent. With such a light draw one can hold at a full 60 inch elongation on the target. This enhances accuracy greatly and ensures that these higher speeds are replicated every shot.
Why do we like high speeds...well why not? We all can be deconstructionist about most aspects in life. I personally don't generally derive as much satisfaction from lobbing sub 200fps projectiles down range in a looping visible arc. I don't hunt and if I did I wouldn't use light projectiles unless for small feathered game. That's me but I respect your opinion Hawk,you're one of the true elite.


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## hawk2009

timdix said:


> I understand your sentiments Hawk but what I really want to get across here is not a macho thing but merely a message for those without a chrony: One doesn't need heavy bands to propel 3/8 steel down range with real impact. In fact I'm sure most people of average strength are MUCH slower with 4 and 6 strand 1745 or TB equivalent. With such a light draw one can hold at a full 60 inch elongation on the target. This enhances accuracy greatly and ensures that these higher speeds are replicated every shot.
> Why do we like high speeds...well why not? We all can be deconstructionist about most aspects in life. I personally don't generally derive as much satisfaction from lobbing sub 200fps projectiles down range in a looping visible arc. I don't hunt and if I did I wouldn't use light projectiles unless for small feathered game. That's me but I respect your opinion Hawk,you're one of the true elite.


Don't get me wrong I was not saying you were macho I was trying to put across why the majority purchase extremely powerful slingshots when it's not suitable for their needs is it a macho thing. I do understand what you were doing nice work by the way.


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## bootneck

Thats pretty impressive, i am guilty of occasionally enjoying shooting fast, winging a 9.5mm bb super fast can be great fun but i also enjoy the slow heavy impact of big slow projectiles, it's like being able to punch something but further away than my fist, so i can see both sides, if you enjoy destroying things, and seeing something that looks slow punching through 1/2 inch plywood or 3 or 4 magazines, or smashing into some tasty animals then big and slow (and for me more controlable) is good.

Or barely seeing your small steel ball whipping through targets 100 meters away or penatrating cans without barely moving them or putting clean holes through tasty animals then fast and light is fun too, ether way as long as you enjoy it then it's all good.

hawk - i can deffinately see your point, i do often wonder just how many people think the're getting super fast speeds when infact they may not have the muscle or too short of an anchor point to get the speeds we see chronied.

And in the defence of the venders - I believe there showing the full potential of there bands, not trying to say that everyone WILL get those speeds, just showing what there bands can do, it's just like advertising anything, you show it to it's full potential.

Anyway back to the point im impressed that single 1745's can get to 302 fps thats normally the preserve of tapered flat bands, well done and thanks for sharing


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## Rayshot

If some one is honest about the capabilities and has played around with flats and tubes they will find they can both be great.

I like both, but lately I have been using flats because by cutting my own I have a lot of variability in the strengths I can cut from one thickness of band material.

Some of my next sets are going to be setting up with some of the tubes I have.


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## Rayshot

Oh yeah, and I will say for my bug out bag I like the longevity of tubes over bands. But hopefully I will have both.

I have room enough in my heart, to love both.


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## -SRS-45-

gotta admit I love a certain amount of power... well power in my non iron man terms. Though as I'm using butterfly tapered I don't have a heavy pull weight, but I just don't enjoy hitting holes in paper I love watching shots impact with a relative amount of punch. For me that's part of the joy and excitement of shooting.


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## Dayhiker

Rayshot said:


> Oh yeah, and I will say for my bug out bag I like the longevity of tubes over bands. But hopefully I will have both.
> 
> I have room enough in my heart, to love both.


Me Too, Ray!


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## notchent

This is one of my favorite setups for speed/power, with a very light pull and short anchor:


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## NaturalFork

I absolutely love the speed I get from 1745 tubes. They shoot incredibly fast. But for some reason for me I get tons of fliers and my accuracy drops when shooting tubes. It may just be because I am not used to them.


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## Charles

My preference is definitely for heavy projectiles at slower speeds. And that is a good thing, since I cannot do the high speed stuff anyway! My wrists will not take a really heavy draw, and I do not shoot butterfly. I really like the longevity of tubes. But I do like the ready availability of flats and rubber band chains. One thing that deters me from just using 1745 and similar tubing is that I cannot just go to the local store and buy it. But maybe I should just lay in a big supply of the stuff and be done with it. I have some latex surgical tubing that I have had in a plastic bag in a drawer for more than 25 years, and it seems as good now as when I got it.

Back to speed. The two key factors in the account at the head of this thread are temperature and length of acceleration. Those of us who live in milder climates cannot do much about the outdoor temperature. And as everyone is rightly pointing out, each of us has an accustomed anchor point. So generally speaking, we are stuck. The only variable readily available is the band type and configuration. I suppose that is why many like Theraband ... it gives one a great deal to play with.

I fully agree with others here who emphasize that one needs to focus on the use to which one is going to put the tool. If I am just punching paper at a fixed distance, then high velocity should not be my goal if it interferes with accuracy. If I am hunting, then heavier ammo should be used, and again high velocity should not be my goal. If I am just out plinking around with stones at a variety of unknown distances, then high velocity is not a prime focus. In all cases, accuracy remains of prime importance.

I think it is important to have a look at what ZDP-189 has to say about velocity:

http://slingshotforum.com/blog/11/entry-397-whats-the-optimal-velocity/

At normal slingshot ranges, a velocity of over about 200fps is sort of a waste of time with respect to the aspect of projectile drop ... at ranges from 5 to 25 meters, you will not notice a significant difference between say 225 fps and 275 fps. So the question is, why push for those higher velocities? Of course some will go for speed just because it is a challenge to do so. But unless speed itself is your end, we may well be better served by slowing down a bit.

It is much like driving to the store. If I am going to drive to a store 10 km away, the difference between driving at 60 km/hr and 80 km/hr is pretty negligible: 10 minutes vs 7.5 minutes. Some feel the need to drive at high speed, no matter what the purpose of the trip nor how close the destination. A more rational approach is to consider aspects such as fuel economy and safety.

Now, having bored you to tears with my meandering ... let me say that I find it really impressive that you can obtain those velocities with a single strand of that tubing. Just goes to show that under the right conditions ......

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Bill Hays

I'll tell you why I prefer flats over any of the tubes... consistency.
Seems like almost every time I order the 1745, for example, they are not the same from one batch to another... and this is when ordering from dankung.
But if I order a big honkin' roll of theraband gold or get my latex from Tex... I pretty well know exactly what I'll be getting, and it's a LOT more convenient to buy as well.

I've had black colored 1745 sets that have outlasted the pouches they're tied to, several times. NEVER has that happened with flats. And when matched up properly to the ammo the light 1745 bandsets can be just as accurate... but when I order the stuff, and one time it's amber, one time it's black, one time it's thinner walled and one time when I stretch it out it retracts at half the speed of toothpaste.... well I get tired of it. So now I almost exclusively use flats except for when trying out now slingshot designs to make sure they're compatable with tubes... and that's pretty well it.


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## fatboy

I prefer flats also. Sometimes I will enjoy the 1745's. Be careful not to use doubled 1745's with a fork that is too narrow. One beautiful fork of mine with doubles shot fast and hard but would have terrible flyers. When I went to a single 1745 accuracy returned. In my opinion the bands must have been bunching up and causing the fouled shots.

TBG is real good, Tex's latex is the best IMO. If the rubber band from a news paper is all I have then that is great too.


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## hawk2009

Bill Hays said:


> I'll tell you why I prefer flats over any of the tubes... consistency.
> Seems like almost every time I order the 1745, for example, they are not the same from one batch to another... and this is when ordering from dankung.
> But if I order a big honkin' roll of theraband gold or get my latex from Tex... I pretty well know exactly what I'll be getting, and it's a LOT more convenient to buy as well.
> 
> I've had black colored 1745 sets that have outlasted the pouches they're tied to, several times. NEVER has that happened with flats. And when matched up properly to the ammo the light 1745 bandsets can be just as accurate... but when I order the stuff, and one time it's amber, one time it's black, one time it's thinner walled and one time when I stretch it out it retracts at half the speed of toothpaste.... well I get tired of it. So now I almost exclusively use flats except for when trying out now slingshot designs to make sure they're compatable with tubes... and that's pretty well it.


I have heard several members complain about tubes from dankung, and as you well know I have been shooting dankung tubes for nearly two years, and until two months ago could never relate to this problem, until I received a batch of 1745* black tubes it was clear their was a problem they were brittle and very hard to pull so I contacted dankung who acted very professionally and replaced the tubing free of charge. Every supplier will at some time have problems with their product it's how they deal with it that stands them apart from others, as for sending product of a different colour to what I ordered it has never happened they are certainly world leaders in quality tubing in my book and will always be my number one company. As for consistency we will probably differ again Bill as I don't have this problem with them I have a set measurement for cutting my tubes and I really don't notice any difference unless I replace the whole set even then the adjustment is minimal just a couple of shots and your their, replacing the set will make a difference as tubes last a very long time and are weaker than a new set but the difference has been conpensated for naturally from day to day shooting without notice. I have not noted how long goes by before I have to replace the whole set at a guess three to four months maybe longer, as I only replace the one worn tube when needed this can be done a few times before it eventually leads to a full set needing to be replaced.


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## hawk2009

fatboy said:


> I prefer flats also. Sometimes I will enjoy the 1745's. Be careful not to use doubled 1745's with a fork that is too narrow. One beautiful fork of mine with doubles shot fast and hard but would have terrible flyers. When I went to a single 1745 accuracy returned. In my opinion the bands must have been bunching up and causing the fouled shots. TBG is real good, Tex's latex is the best IMO. If the rubber band from a news paper is all I have then that is great too.


I would agree to that to narrow and the tubes will bunch up, I suggest if shooting with narrow forks you set them up to shoot over the top so this cannot happen.


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## rubberpower

notchent said:


> This is one of my favorite setups for speed/power, with a very light pull and short anchor:


Thanks for the post. I have been wondering how to set up some single tubes for quick change and easy set up and you have answered my question.


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## rubberpower

NaturalFork said:


> I absolutely love the speed I get from 1745 tubes. They shoot incredibly fast. But for some reason for me I get tons of fliers and my accuracy drops when shooting tubes. It may just be because I am not used to them.


I had the same problem and fought it for a long time and only through not wanting to give up I kept at it. For me the break through came when I learned to flip shoot and twist the pouch. Still working on it but now for the first time I am shooting consistent.


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## rubberpower

hawk2009 said:


> I prefer flats also. Sometimes I will enjoy the 1745's. Be careful not to use doubled 1745's with a fork that is too narrow. One beautiful fork of mine with doubles shot fast and hard but would have terrible flyers. When I went to a single 1745 accuracy returned. In my opinion the bands must have been bunching up and causing the fouled shots. TBG is real good, Tex's latex is the best IMO. If the rubber band from a news paper is all I have then that is great too.


I would agree to that to narrow and the tubes will bunch up, I suggest if shooting with narrow forks you set them up to shoot over the top so this cannot happen.
[/quote] That is what I found out last week. I have two narrow frame chinese frames and converted them to OTT and they shoot really good. I actually attached the bands to the frame one and the flats on the other. Looks weird but really shoots good.


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## bullseyeben!

Good results td! I can now calibrate my chrony ( the yellow pages): page 300 equals about 300 fps lol.. thanks for the post.., Ben


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## crazyslingshot

Amazing setup, but I am afraid it's difficult to make and tie?
at least , it takes much time to do it.



notchent said:


> This is one of my favorite setups for speed/power, with a very light pull and short anchor:


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## Charles

If you can tie your tubes to the pouch, then you can do the half double configuration ... it is the same tie. It is very easy to do and probably faster than tieing to the fork.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## timdix

A few points to add:
I've tested a few cocktail setups with 2040 and 1745's and didn't find them overwhelmingly faster if one is already maxxing out elongation on the non cocktail setup.
I have some heavier 2050 tubes on order to compare with straight cut flats with larger ammo such as .44 lead. 
Tubes really do like a long draw to perform at their best,perhaps more so than flats. Accuracy does suffer with the long draw somewhat...I had to almost reskill completely when I switched to butterfly. My initial forays were awful.
Now,two lacerated thumbs later(thanks Torsten!!) I really feel the accuracy coming on every time I shoot.
And yes,Tex latex is the best rubber there is.My dwindling supply is only tapped into for special occasions since Tex stopped selling OS.


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## hawk2009

timdix said:


> A few points to add:
> I've tested a few cocktail setups with 2040 and 1745's and didn't find them overwhelmingly faster if one is already maxxing out elongation on the non cocktail setup.
> I have some heavier 2050 tubes on order to compare with straight cut flats with larger ammo such as .44 lead.
> Tubes really do like a long draw to perform at their best,perhaps more so than flats. Accuracy does suffer with the long draw somewhat...I had to almost reskill completely when I switched to butterfly. My initial forays were awful.
> Now,two lacerated thumbs later(thanks Torsten!!) I really feel the accuracy coming on every time I shoot.
> And yes,Tex latex is the best rubber there is.My dwindling supply is only tapped into for special occasions since Tex stopped selling OS.


I can't say I agree on tubes performing at their best with a long draw I have a 32inch draw and they work superbly well you have to get the tube length correct it is different for both tubes 2040* are cut shorter than 1745*s for a 32inch draw, as for one faster than the other 2040* is faster using 8mm or 9.5mm steel but 1745* hits harder I have done several chrony tests on these tubes it must be your set up I assume by the pictures you shoot looped tubes, I never have liked looped they are very inaccurate fixed tubing is much more accurate and reliable.


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