# Hand Hit - Fork Hit



## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

...is an understatement. Wife and I went out plinking at the creek. My very first shot, and the rock hit my hand upon release, Hurt like hades. The next shot, I made dang sure I had it nice and straight, before releasing. Whap, did it again. I had a hit on my hand the last time as well. Never did this before. What am I doing wrong? Was shooting my Hathcock.

Here's a photo. The first hit is obvious, and the second one not as much, lower, and to the right.










I remembered to bring my sling. I started using it instead, as my first 2 shots from my slingshot made me gun shy.

I just wanted to link Charles' excellent videos in how to prevent this, in case anyone uses the search, and comes across this. Charles, or another Mod, could you please edit my original post, and include these links. Also, if possible, could you change my title to Hand Hit, instead of Hand Slap. Thanks..

http://slingshotforu...nd-hits-part-1/

http://slingshotforu...nd-hits-part-2/


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Dang, wrong thread.


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## SuperMonkeySlinger (Jan 28, 2013)

Possibly an un-even bandset? And are you shooting OTT or TTF? If your shooting TTF, lower the hand you hold your slingshot with, that helped me when i had this same problem..

SMS


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

SuperMonkeySlinger said:


> Possibly an un-even bandset? And are you shooting OTT or TTF? If your shooting TTF, lower the hand you hold your slingshot with, that helped me when i had this same problem..
> 
> SMS


Bands are even. TTF is the way they came from Bill Hayes.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

You"re canting the forks. Keep the forks one on top of the other. It's easy to do if your not in the habit .Have your wife check your hold.


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## Btoon84 (Nov 22, 2011)

ouch sorry dude


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

treefork said:


> You"re canting the forks. Keep the forks one on top of the other. It's easy to do if your not in the habit .Have your wife check your hold.


I'm tellin' ya, they were straight. She was standing right there making sure. I asked her.


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## SuperMonkeySlinger (Jan 28, 2013)

Hmmm.. Maybe a jerk after pouch release? ive done that before. Just practice and im sure you'll get it, From where your hand got hit, it looks like the bands need to be closer to your head, That is, depending on what draw technique your using.. im guessing your drawing somewhere from cheek, to ear? if so try keeping the pouch closer to your head.. If your hold a slingshot low and draw the pouch somewhere around your neck, then raise the forks.

SMS


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Then check if the pouch is perfectly even in full draw. Also make sure your not bending or tweaking the pouch.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

I was twisting, but not tweaking. It's more comfortable for me to twist shooting gangsta style.

I may have jerked after release, certainly possible. I anchor on my cheek, with my right eye right over top of the band. I've even been practicing in the mirror.


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## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

To paraphrase Captain Picard, "Sometimes you can do everything right and still lose." If you are twisting your pouch and your forks aren't canted, I have no explanation that makes sense. I too had one that bit me twice in a row, I pulled the bands off, removed the pouch and redid the set with the same bands and pouch. No more sling bite :iono: No idea why. But on the other side, You now have the tribal markings. You will see more of them than black thumbnails.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Twisting is fine. I also twist. Like someone above mentioned check the bands are symmetrical in every respect. Width, length and same attachment point. Throw a different set on for now to eliminate that factor. Remember it is easy to cant the Hathcock if you get lazy. I shoot the Hathcock almost exclusively and find my self allowing the top fork to drift back a little on occasion.


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## LVO (Sep 25, 2011)

That will leave a scar that looks a lot mine!
Probably a weird pouch release


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

What you have there my friend is a classic "fork hit", only in this case it is a hand hit. Usually the phrase "hand slap" is used to refer to the situation in which the ammo flies normally but the pouch travels back around at high speed and hits the hand. From your description, it seems it was not the pouch that hit your hand, but rather it was the ammo. I have posted the analysis below before, and it might help you.

1) You are twisting the fork at the time of release. This happens very easily with hammer grip or with choker grip, especially when the bands are too strong for you to pull comfortably. The choker grip is very commonly used by many shooters. Try this little experiment. Take a deck of cards or a small block of wood or your frame in your hand and hold it between your curled index finger and curled thumb, as though your are trying to choke it. Now, try to turn the flat face so that it is parallel to the wall. You will find you have to cant you hand backward at the wrist. Now imagine you are pulling back on bands attached to the object in your hand. As you pull on the bands, you will resist the pull with the hand holding the deck of cards (or the slingshot frame) to keep your wrist from being bent backwards at a painful angle. As you release, the tension in your hand will naturally rotate your wrist forward, twisting the frame so that the gap between the fork tips closes ... and your ammo smacks into a fork or into your hand since it cannot go between the forks.

2) You are shooting with the speed bump effect, but unaware of it. Here is another little experiment for you to try. Curl your fingers into the palm of your hand, and press the ball of your thumb onto your index finger. Hold your hand so that the top of your thumbnail is toward the ceiling. Pretend you are going to release your pouch and ammo. What you will most likely do is just lift your thumb. If there were a pouch and ammo being held over your index finger by your thumb, as you release, the bands would yank the pouch over your index finger and propel the ammo slightly upward. If you were holding your frame sideways (ganster style, although I dislike that way of phrasing it), the result would be that your ammo would strike the frame of your slingshot or your hand. Now, try this one. Extend your middle finger, ring finger, and pink finger out straight, and place your thumb on top of your curled index finger as before. Pretend you are holding your pouch and ammo between your index finger and your thumb. Now when you release, you will find it easy to move your thumb and index finger away from each other, rather than just moving your thumb. If you move both your thumb and your index finger, you will not get the speed bump effect.

When you are using bands with a fairly heavy pull, the natural tendency is to clamp the pouch in front of the ammo between your thumb and index finger, with the ammo in the pouch resting just behind the index finger. Thus if you are not very careful with your release, you are likely to get the speed bump effect.

I believe that case number 2 is the reason that many people find they do not get fork hits if they "twist the pouch". What they are doing is arranging their hand so that any speed bump effect is NOT directed toward one of the forks, but rather out of the gap between the forks.

Sooo, what can you do? The first simple thing is to step back a bit on the strength of your bands. That will make it easier for you to keep your frame from twisting as your release. If you are using a choker grip, switch to a finger hook and thumb brace, as that will make a twist much less likely. With a finger hook and thumb brace, your wrist is much more straight, rather than being bent backwards. Watch carefully how you hold your ammo and pouch. Try extending your middle finger, ring finger, and pinky, gripping the pouch just between your thumb and index finger. Concentrate on your release so that you smoothly move your thumb and index finger away from each other, rather than moving just your thumb. Try twisting your pouch so that your thumb nail is pointing toward the gap in the forks, rather than toward one of the forks.

Hope some of these suggestions are of help for you.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it.

Charles, do you know of a video posted, that shows a good grip and release for the pouch? Would love to see one.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

mmm if you are turning 90°, your frame perfect aligned, bands checked, ammo properly centred in the pouch then it seems you are tweaking (bending) the wrong side, be sure the thumb is facing inside (toward your face), when releasing don't open your fingers abruptly, let your hand stay in place for a second, just relax and let the rubber suck the ammo, be sure when grip the pouch you are feeling the pouch and ammo simultaneously ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

I wish there were some good videos, or photos showing pouch grip and release.

Another thing I was thinking. I have very big hands, and my hand partially covers the fork, like so:


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

The Warrior said:


> Thanks for all the help guys, appreciate it.
> 
> Charles, do you know of a video posted, that shows a good grip and release for the pouch? Would love to see one.


These are not directed exactly at the points I raised above, but they should help.

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-17-how-to-aim-and-shoot-accurately/

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-14-helpful-tips-for-shooting-with-speed-and-accuracy/

I suppose I should break down and do a video on fork/hand hits ... just need more time ...

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Quercusuber (Nov 10, 2011)

Charles said:


> What you have there my friend is a classic "fork hit", only in this case it is a hand hit. Usually the phrase "hand slap" is used to refer to the situation in which the ammo flies normally but the pouch travels back around at high speed and hits the hand. From your description, it seems it was not the pouch that hit your hand, but rather it was the ammo. I have posted the analysis below before, and it might help you.
> 
> 1) You are twisting the fork at the time of release. This happens very easily with hammer grip or with choker grip, especially when the bands are too strong for you to pull comfortably. The choker grip is very commonly used by many shooters. Try this little experiment. Take a deck of cards or a small block of wood or your frame in your hand and hold it between your curled index finger and curled thumb, as though your are trying to choke it. Now, try to turn the flat face so that it is parallel to the wall. You will find you have to cant you hand backward at the wrist. Now imagine you are pulling back on bands attached to the object in your hand. As you pull on the bands, you will resist the pull with the hand holding the deck of cards (or the slingshot frame) to keep your wrist from being bent backwards at a painful angle. As you release, the tension in your hand will naturally rotate your wrist forward, twisting the frame so that the gap between the fork tips closes ... and your ammo smacks into a fork or into your hand since it cannot go between the forks.
> 
> ...


 :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

The Warrior said:


> I wish there were some good videos, or photos showing pouch grip and release.
> 
> Another thing I was thinking. I have very big hands, and my hand partially covers the fork, like so:


Your ammo should still clear your hand ... from that photo, I would bet you experienced the speed bump effect, but in the wrong direction. With that hold, keep the top of your thumb nail in the direction of the top fork, or MUCH better in the direction of the gap between the forks. If your thumb nail is toward the fork tip, you are likely to get a fork hit. Anyway, in either case if the ammo is dragged over the second joint of your index finger and "bounces" (like a speed bump), then the ammo will not be directed at your hand. Another tip is to hold your ammo just between your thumb and index finger, with your other fingers extended straight ... like the caricature of the hoity-toity way of drinking tea. That way when you release, your thumb and index finger will move apart more evenly, eliminating or greatly reducing the speed bump effect.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks Charles, appreciate it.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

I guess I can grip it a little different, and not have my hand over the fork, like so. I just noticed that the rock hit the fork too. Not sure how it hit my hand, then the fork, but apparently it did:


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

I agree. Probably tweaking the pouch.

I don't mean to cause offence, but I fail to see how canting the forks up or down would create a lateral movement of the ammo. That would create a higher or lower shot, but not for the ammo to drastically take a left hand turn. It doesn't make sense.

I agree with Charles that it's probably the speed bump effect, where you're twisting the pouch (good) but tweaking the pouch over one finger, so it is bumping over that finger, and well... you know the rest.

I've done this before a few times. I don't do it anymore, but I did when I first shot. Infact, my wife has had a single shot on my slingshot and caught a 9.5mm round to the hand. She's never shot one since.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Rocks not round enough or too large for the band set and a few of the things above! I would think although that the slingshot metioned is a great slingshot, it might not be the one to shoot rocks with! -- Tex


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks for the input gents, appreciate it.

I was saying the same thing to my wife Tex. The rocks we were using weren't rounded stones, but quarried rock, with all kinds of different shapes. They weren't overly big though. I believe it has something to do with tweaking the pouch myself, although I sure didn't realize I was doing it. I'm gonna glove that hand the next time, until I figure it out. I need to make myself a catchbox still. I have several rounds of bearings, and marbles to shoot, once I get it up and going.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

im with tex. had that happen to me . when it does it a lot with different larger ammo or new ammo choice, i shoot smaller or ammo im comfortable with to see if thats the problem, it usually is.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I love hand slap reminds me of when I was young and dating.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Cjw said:


> I love hand slap reminds me of when I was young and dating.


Or young and not dating, haha.









I heard that'll make ya go blind.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Oval shaped rocks just do better along with live active shooting the longer you pause the more that can go wrong.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

I was just practicing in the mirror again. I was definitely tweaking. I was drawing back down low, bringing it up to my face (thanks Bill Hayes), and when I was holding the pouch at the side of my mouth, I was tweaking the pouch to the contour of my face, if that makes any sense. Didn't even realize I was doing it. The funny thing is, I must have just started doing it, as I didn't have that problem before. Thanks again guys, for all your help. I sincerely appreciate it. Looking forward to getting out and shooting again.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

I just wanted to link Charles' excellent videos in how to prevent this, in case anyone uses the search, and comes across this. Charles, or another Mod, could you please edit my original post, and include these links. Also, if possible, could you change my title to Hand Hit, instead of Hand Slap. Thanks..

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-32-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-1/

http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-31-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-2/


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

The Warrior said:


> I just wanted to link Charles' excellent videos in how to prevent this, in case anyone uses the search, and comes across this. Charles, or another Mod, could you please edit my original post, and include these links. Also, if possible, could you change my title to Hand Hit, instead of Hand Slap. Thanks..
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-32-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-1/
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-31-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-2/


Those are excellent tutorials, I want to empathize that some ways not work the same depending on where is your anchor point, ie: I should not recommend the thumb facing inwards shooting sideways with a short anchor (at your cheek) because it will cause the bump more likely over your index than over your thumb and that will deflect the path closer the frame or the hand, different is when you pull past your shoulder (same method), your hand will be in a correct position to make the bump over the thumb deflecting the path outside your frame and hand, is useful to do soft dry shoots to discover where the band are going ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

The Warrior said:


> I just wanted to link Charles' excellent videos in how to prevent this, in case anyone uses the search, and comes across this. Charles, or another Mod, could you please edit my original post, and include these links. Also, if possible, could you change my title to Hand Hit, instead of Hand Slap. Thanks..
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-32-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-1/
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/videos/view-31-how-to-avoid-fork-and-hand-hits-part-2/


Done.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Arturito said:


> The Warrior said:
> 
> 
> > I just wanted to link Charles' excellent videos in how to prevent this, in case anyone uses the search, and comes across this. Charles, or another Mod, could you please edit my original post, and include these links. Also, if possible, could you change my title to Hand Hit, instead of Hand Slap. Thanks..
> ...


Good points, Arturo.

Cheers .... Charles


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## Guest (May 29, 2013)

Flip can be an issue in this situation also. If you are holding the SS sideways and you flip it vertically (forward and down) you can get that hit. Same effect as "speed bump". When holding the SS sideways flip should be forward and sideways vice down. Flip is always from the top of the forks to the bottom of the pomel; regardless of how the SS is held.


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## The Warrior (Jan 30, 2012)

Thanks Charles, appreciate it.

What I was doing, was holding my ss horizontal (hate the "gangster style" term), as it's a Hathcock. Was twisting, but when I was anchoring on my cheek, I was tweaking it, sort of to the contours of my face. Like Charles says, the speed bump effect. Exactly what I was doing.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

OldSpookASA said:


> Flip can be an issue in this situation also. If you are holding the SS sideways and you flip it vertically (forward and down) you can get that hit. Same effect as "speed bump". When holding the SS sideways flip should be forward and sideways vice down. Flip is always from the top of the forks to the bottom of the pomel; regardless of how the SS is held.


Yep! From my point of view, this is another excellent reason NOT to flip when you shoot.

Cheers .... Charles


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

I am a neophyte catapultist (only about 100 posts ) but absorbing like a sponge thanks to vast knowledge & resources at this forum! First thing I was going to say, do not shoot rocks or choose your rocks carefully! I see that veteran master Tex-Shooter already posted that earlier! 

I did not see commented by others yet ... Warrior's slingshot bands are tied for TTF (through the forks). If slingshot held in gangster (horizontal) position and, IF you are twisting/turning the pouch, does that not NEGATE the TTF trajectory or physics principle?? My understanding with OTT (over the top), tying method to top of forks, when you pouch twist/turn and add tweak/bend, that enhances band/pouch/ammo going over the forks. With TTF the way it's tied to fork, I do not see how twisting pouch helps. You want the pouch/ammo to go through the forks, not over them. Right or wrong?

So trying to summarize - With a TTF setup ... do not twist the pouch? I reviewed Bill Hays video tutorials and I do not recall in the TTF shooting technique, any mention about twisting the pouch. I do not know if I am making any sense :huh:


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

ZorroSlinger said:


> I am a neophyte catapultist (only about 100 posts ) but absorbing like a sponge thanks to vast knowledge & resources at this forum! First thing I was going to say, do not shoot rocks or choose your rocks carefully! I see that veteran master Tex-Shooter already posted that earlier!
> 
> I did not see commented by others yet ... Warrior's slingshot bands are tied for TTF (through the forks). If slingshot held in gangster (horizontal) position and, IF you are twisting/turning the pouch, does that not NEGATE the TTF trajectory or physics principle?? My understanding with OTT (over the top), tying method to top of forks, when you pouch twist/turn and add tweak/bend, that enhances band/pouch/ammo going over the forks. With TTF the way it's tied to fork, I do not see how twisting pouch helps. You want the pouch/ammo to go through the forks, not over them. Right or wrong?
> 
> So trying to summarize - With a TTF setup ... do not twist the pouch? I reviewed Bill Hays video tutorials and I do not recall in the TTF shooting technique, any mention about twisting the pouch. I do not know if I am making any sense :huh:


TTF is not different to OTT regarding fork hits or the speed bump effect, that means same fork hits for the same improper pouch grip and release ... and the bands/pouch/ammo going exactly passing exactly centered through the forks is just one "rare" case of all probable paths ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

ZorroSlinger said:


> I am a neophyte catapultist (only about 100 posts ) but absorbing like a sponge thanks to vast knowledge & resources at this forum! First thing I was going to say, do not shoot rocks or choose your rocks carefully! I see that veteran master Tex-Shooter already posted that earlier!
> 
> I did not see commented by others yet ... Warrior's slingshot bands are tied for TTF (through the forks). If slingshot held in gangster (horizontal) position and, IF you are twisting/turning the pouch, does that not NEGATE the TTF trajectory or physics principle?? My understanding with OTT (over the top), tying method to top of forks, when you pouch twist/turn and add tweak/bend, that enhances band/pouch/ammo going over the forks. With TTF the way it's tied to fork, I do not see how twisting pouch helps. You want the pouch/ammo to go through the forks, not over them. Right or wrong?
> 
> So trying to summarize - With a TTF setup ... do not twist the pouch? I reviewed Bill Hays video tutorials and I do not recall in the TTF shooting technique, any mention about twisting the pouch. I do not know if I am making any sense :huh:


I am still learning as well - so don't take this as gospel, but I agree that twisting the pouch when shooting Sideways/Horizontal TTF 'CAN' cause problems, (but only if you 'tweak' the pouch), because when anchoring next to, or behind your cheek, your thumb ends up being turned inward, or toward your cheek, as well as creating a slight natural 'tweaking' of the pouch, which would cause the ammo to have a speed bump effect upon release, causing the pouch to slap/graze the cheek, as well as sometimes hitting the top or left fork (when hoding frame in left hand).

It would appear this can all be avoided by elminating the 'tweak' in the pouch - which can be done by holding the pouch between thumb and inex finger, with third finger and ring finger extended as Charles explained above - so that a more even release is achieved between thumb and index finger . . . (note: its harder to hold the pouch in this fashion when using 'stonger/stout' bands or tubes). Or you can simply hold the pouch the way Bill Hays does - no twist and fingers extended.

So to summarize, my understanding is, twisting the pouch is OK when shooting TTFs as long as you eliminate the tweak.

Of course when shooting OTT holding the frame vertical in the Dgui/Hussey method . . . all rules change! (twist and tweak preferred).

Oh yes, and when shooting rocks, I seem to have greater success eliminating fork hits by shooting OTT as opposed to shooting TTFs . . . most definitely.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Auto-biographical report: I do not get fork or hand hits, and I shoot a lot of stones. I shoot with very narrow forks almost all the time ... less than 2 inches between the fork tips. I am careful how I hold the fork, and careful about the way I hold the pouch and my release. The only time I use the speed bump effect is when I shoot bareback or use a Guatemalan style slingshot. Sometimes I use a frame with an OTT configuration and sometimes I use a frame with an OTF configuration.

Just pause for a moment and think about the speed bump effect. If the bands drag your ammo up from behind and over the edge of your index finger, the ammo will bounce in the direction it is being bumped. If the bands drag your ammo up from behind your thumb pad and over the tip of your thumb, the ammo will bounce in the direction it is being bumped. If the ammo is being bumped in the direction of your fork, you will likely get a fork hit. If the ammo is being bumped in the direction of your hand, you will likely get a hand hit. If the ammo is being bumped toward the opening between your forks, it will not result in a fork hit or a hand hit.

If you do not employ the speed bump effect (either consciously or unconsciously), the mid point of your ammo will pass through a point about halfway between your forks at the midpoint of the bands. If a band breaks and you have a "startle" release, then Zeus only knows where the ammo will go.

Cheers .... Charles


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

You might find this video useful demonstrating Tweaking and Turning. Turning the pouch causes the pouch to glide over the and forks you can also add Tweaking the pouch sends the ammo with a bit more clearnace but with control. A tweak can be 3 to 5 degrees, the video showing over teaking so it can be seen and putting the forks in the way added more risk for a hit. This video shows how the pouch can be manipulated for a good release. BUT if you are shooting sideways all you have to do Tweak the pouch away out and away from you 3 to 5 degrees because you are already turning the forks.


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

Charles said:


> Auto-biographical report: *I do not get fork or hand hits, and I shoot a lot of stones. I shoot with very narrow forks almost all the time ... less than 2 inches between the fork tips. I am careful how I hold the fork, and careful about the way I hold the pouch and my release.* The only time I use the speed bump effect is when I shoot bareback or use a Guatemalan style slingshot. Sometimes I use a frame with an OTT configuration and sometimes I use a frame with an OTF configuration. . . .


 Thank you Charles. Very interesting. Gives me hope for rock-shooting through the forks.



dgui said:


> You might find this video useful demonstrating Tweaking and Turning. Turning the pouch causes the pouch to glide over the and forks you can also add Tweaking the pouch sends the ammo with a bit more clearnace but with control. A tweak can be 3 to 5 degrees, the video showing over teaking so it can be seen and putting the forks in the way added more risk for a hit. This video shows how the pouch can be manipulated for a good release. BUT if you are shooting sideways all you have to do Tweak the pouch away out and away from you 3 to 5 degrees because you are already turning the forks.


 Really appreciate your videos!


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

I'm sorry, but when people are getting the impression that you can't twist the pouch with a TTF shot, this is getting outta hand. This is a product of the repeated and repetitive twisting/tweaking posts. I mean, what if someone shooting gangster starts tweaking the pouch to avoid forkhits because they keep reading that it'll help with getting forkhits/hand hits? Sure, it's a necessity when shooting vertical shooting with low forks (which is a a bucketload of fun, don't get me wrong).

Twisting the pouch probably won't make a great deal of difference in hitting your hand. Correct pouch alignment, band alignment and smooth, even release will help that ammo fly true, and not whack your hand. I did it a couple of times when I was starting and it really screws with your confidence.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

The individual has a choice to either control where the pouch sends the ammo or to not control the pouch. It can only go where it is sent. Fork or hand hits all ways results from the release. The frame used makes no difference the alighnment makes no difference uneven bands or tubes makes no difference a bad pouch makes no difference the ammo used makes no difference but how you manipulate the pouch makes all the difference. For those that fail to realize this more power to you.


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## JetBlack (Mar 9, 2012)

Try some ball bearings,may of been air turbulence.


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

I agree 99% with you Darrell (let's celebrate this beautiful occasion! haahaha) except for alignment. I suggest if you twist and tweak the pouch, while your fork alignment is horizontal, you will propel the ammo into a fork or your hand. I agree with everything else you said there, except that fairly vital point.

I am referring to this situation: Horizontal forks. Drawn back to anchor point. Twisted pouch (I twist because i use my knuckle in my ear as reference point when target shooting). This has my thumb facing downwards, with my pinkie waving in the air above my right ear. 
If the pouch is tweaked at this point, the speed bump effect will surely propel the ammo vertically and hinder the ammo passing the forks, and promote the ammo to hit the upper fork tip or your finger, or a ladybug delicately landing on your forktip.

Think of the ladybirds man, for the love of everything holy.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

once a tweaker, always a tweaker.

maybe it was just a case of too much twist, over twisting causes the unpredictable "release bump". when i shoot gangsta, aight, i tend to twist a lil bit, for example, from the straight pull of 9 oclock/3oclock position to about 7oclock/1oclock position. sort of goes from this --> - to this --> /. hope i made sense. its just the way i grew up shooting, i have to practice not twisting. i reserve tweaking solely for the pfs.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

How does this work for alinment.


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## Arturito (Jan 10, 2013)

I've make my decision to turn 90° and tweak(bend) because I had 2 consecutive fork hits and even didn't hurt me was a BIG setback, immediately fear and uncertainty, I was shooting butterfly and was very happy with it because my accuracy improved ... so I made a RADICAL decision, find out how to avoid definitely the fork hits,. at this point remembered some dgui videos and review them once again to fully understand what was behind this method. Now preserving the butterfly style I like noticed that my previews accuracy didn't change so much despite some friends warned me it could be a setback. After lots of shooting without incidents I decided to go one step ahead, try it with the PFS butterfly sideways, done with my first olive natural PFS, I was very worried to screw it up, nothing happened. Since that 4 month ago now I have 3 PFS shooters all lovely and valuable naturals doing many thousand shoots with them without a single incident, not a single ugly flyer. Not only removed the fork hits, noticed again a step ahead in my accuracy !!?? ... after seen a torsten tutorial I found out that I was griping the pouch the same way he does, a natural and very comfortable turn and tweak ... it was so easy to shoot that way !. it seems that was what improved my accuracy again ... summary, no more fork hits matching the way I like ... maybe I have found definitely my form ??

that is my experience ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey Art,

Your style is pretty much unique, from what I can see. Gangster butterfly PFS shooter, right? haha, Mad stuff, but good to watch


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

All Buns Glazing said:


> Gangster butterfly PFS shooter, right?


dont be messing with them butterfly gangsters !


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## JetBlack (Mar 9, 2012)

Some need s to Photoshop pfs in their hands, my Mac is in storage or I'd do it


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## Dr J (Apr 22, 2013)

I have not had hand hit in years , then along cones Sir Vulcan from the kingdom of Hays. And bang ! from pouch to thumb. I will persist with Sir Vulcan, because as far as I can read only Sir Bill can get to work, as well he should, as he is the Genesis of this SS.


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## JetBlack (Mar 9, 2012)

Ouch that's the spot , that Vulcan fork looks like it takes a few shots to get used to.if it happens again maybe wear a glove, look at my gallery,I always wear that.


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