# Who Does Butterfly, And What Rig Do You Use Confortably?



## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

ok so i have the Hogans castings howitzer, i want to do butterfly with this one, i read through the tutorials and bands and tubes, but really not much info, from my reading i did make a set of double silver thera 1" x 3/4" x 14", since its a new draw for me it was tough i could hit but not accurately, so i am drawing it just to get the old muscles fired up to take the new style and strain, i just measured my draw for what i would like my butterfly to be @56", so with where i cut my thera silver it is almost 500% elongation, seems like this is stressing the bands too much, style is not the problem, i just wonder at what % elongation you butterflys operate?


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

my bands have about 560% elongation, 26 cm long for 150 cm draw.

in this video i was shooting gold TB, but since, i shoot Black TB, two layers per side


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

joseph_curwen said:


> my bands have about 560% elongation, 26 cm long for 150 cm draw.
> 
> in this video i was shooting gold TB, but since, i shoot Black TB, two layers per side


that is very cool, exactly what i am looking to do.


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

I'd try with black blue or red doubles if you're learning. My black setup is 22-12mm x 250mm ties to ties. The red is 30/20mm same length. Draw length is 162 cm. 650% speed- outta control.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

the lightest i have is silver, so i might just taper a bit more, i am at 25 x 20 x 330 but at double silver its a real bear


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

I was never one for double band sets. Never liked them. When I do use Butterfly,I like a single Black Theraband 1 1/2 or 1 3/4" X 1" X 12 3/4" or 13"s-folded both at the prongs and at the pouch tie. I use a Gangsta style frame position with a finger brace grip. Don't like the "Hammer or Pistol Grip". My draw is 58"s. I shoot 3/8" steel. I shoot Butterfly for fun. Not confident enough to use it for competiton. I would love to able to practice distance shooting. I think Butterfly is taylor made for long distance fun! It is awesome when you do hit the target,especially a can or something that makes noise. With all that speed,the hit is NICE!!! Flatband


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Flatband said:


> I was never one for double band sets. Never liked them. When I do use Butterfly,I like a single Black Theraband 1 1/2 or 1 3/4" X 1" X 12 3/4" or 13"s-folded both at the prongs and at the pouch tie. I use a Gangsta style frame position with a finger brace grip. Don't like the "Hammer or Pistol Grip". My draw is 58"s. I shoot 3/8" steel. I shoot Butterfly for fun. Not confident enough to use it for competiton. I would love to able to practice distance shooting. I think Butterfly is taylor made for long distance fun! It is awesome when you do hit the target,especially a can or something that makes noise. With all that speed,the hit is NICE!!! Flatband


excellent answer, thanks!! this is what i was thinking, but had nothing to base it on, gonna cut some up right now!


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

As I recall Torsten had put out some great videos on shooting and cutting the bands to achieve insane speeds. He was using Thera black and blue.Good Luck.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

treefork said:


> As I recall Torsten had put out some great videos on shooting and cutting the bands to achieve insane speeds. He was using Thera black and blue.Good Luck.


i've seen his butterfly vids but dont recall any on lengths............. but i guess i can wander over and check, thanks


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

treefork said:


> As I recall Torsten had put out some great videos on shooting and cutting the bands to achieve insane speeds. He was using Thera black and blue.Good Luck.


no vids on lengths or tapers for butterfly bands, a few on shooting but not much more, after i read this i went to his youtube and elsewhere but could find nothing, of course the best info is from our members.......................lol


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)




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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Ya thats it.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

For USA shooters my Latex sheets are cut 10 1/2 by 16 for a reason. For traditional shooters the 10 1/2 is more than adequate and for butterfly shooters the 16 is more than adequate for butterfly shooters. I shoot semi-butterfly with the 10 1/2 bands and I have a bout a 48 inch semi-butterfly draw. In my recent Crutch Star video I was shooting one of my light field band sets (made with 10 1/2 inch bands) and drawing 53/54 inches. I personally prefer double bands over folded bands for shooting traditional style, if though it does take more work making them. --Tex


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Tex-Shooter said:


> For USA shooters my Latex sheets are cut 10 1/2 by 16 for a reason. For traditional shooters the 10 1/2 is more than adequate and for butterfly shooters the 16 is more than adequate for butterfly shooters. I shoot semi-butterfly with the 10 1/2 bands and I have a bout a 48 inch semi-butterfly draw. In my recent Crutch Star video I was shooting one of my light field band sets (made with 10 1/2 inch bands) and drawing 53/54 inches. I personally prefer double bands over folded bands for shooting traditional style, if though it does take more work making them. --Tex


yeah i am thinking of using the latex i got from you, but for a butterfly of maybe 54-58' , i want to start with single layer just to get the muscles going than graduate to doubles, and since butterfly is really not talked about so much i was wondering about optimum elongation, 400-500% i just am looking for solid ideas before i go to cutting my latex


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

newconvert, try to have the draw weight as low as possible, you have to be very confortable with your band set.
the key is to maximize the draw length.
Sure you will be amazed by the result ;-)

just made a new band set yerterday, same size as torsten advice: 22mm x 11mm x 29cm (before attaching pouche and to fork), two layers of black TB.
maybe a little short for me, but it really rocks


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

joseph_curwen said:


> newconvert, try to have the draw weight as low as possible, you have to be very confortable with your band set.
> the key is to maximize the draw length.
> Sure you will be amazed by the result ;-)
> 
> ...


i am thinking of 35 cm with tex's latex and 22 x 11 as well, right now i am using dounle silver at maybe 32 cm and it is not comfortable , very tough draw.


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

it's a good start. you can allways reduce the size by modifying the fork attachment, easy ;-)

i had the chance to try Tex's bands, it's a very good stuff, very fast


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

joseph_curwen said:


> For USA shooters my Latex sheets are cut 10 1/2 by 16 for a reason. For traditional shooters the 10 1/2 is more than adequate and for butterfly shooters the 16 is more than adequate for butterfly shooters. I shoot semi-butterfly with the 10 1/2 bands and I have a bout a 48 inch semi-butterfly draw. In my recent Crutch Star video I was shooting one of my light field band sets (made with 10 1/2 inch bands) and drawing 53/54 inches. I personally prefer double bands over folded bands for shooting traditional style, if though it does take more work making them. --Tex


so since you know your band material better than i what length would you say would be good for an up to 58' butterfly? and how many layers, i will be starting with one but eventually go for the gusto and make wall busters!


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

single layer for Tex latex i would say


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

joseph_curwen said:


> single layer for Tex latex i would say


yeah i'm thinking that too


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

pop shot said:


> I'd try with black blue or red doubles if you're learning. My black setup is 22-12mm x 250mm ties to ties. The red is 30/20mm same length. Draw length is 162 cm. 650% speed- outta control.


you must have Kung Fu grip, when i try it your way i feel so weak! i guess its time for an hand exerciser!


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

Or try lighter bands! The speed comes mainly from the length the projectile is under acceleration as opposed to heavy draw weight


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

pop shot said:


> Or try lighter bands! The speed comes mainly from the length the projectile is under acceleration as opposed to heavy draw weight


oh i did believe me brother, its just a little arthritis in the hands, but i will just work them a bit to increase strength.


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## timdix (Oct 1, 2010)

I think Torsten's recipe's are an excellent starting point. 
I'm in the TB Black fan club,it just feels snappier than gold out of the hand. I use 2 layers TBB cut around 26-13mm, 27cm,drawn to around 150cm,roo pouch for speeds in the low to mid 300's with 9.5mm steel.
My stock set up however is tapered 1745's: a loop tied at the forks then a single tied to the loop and pouch. Again 27cm total length but drawn slightly less due to the higher draw weight. It gives just over 300fps with 9.5 but with a double the band life than the eqivalent velocity shooting TB.
Much experimentation has helped find the maximum amounts of rubber I can pull comfortably and consistently to full elongation,the key to butterfly. Rubber just slightly too long/short/heavy causes speeds to drop away markedly.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

yup, i agree, i just need thera black. i just have heavy bands at the moment, so i practice with longer bands. its different and fun


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

Black is great, but I hope you like making bandsets...it falls quite short in the life expectancy department. I use it too but this is a tough pill to swallow.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> Black is great, but I hope you like making bandsets...it falls quite short in the life expectancy department. I use it too but this is a tough pill to swallow.


its all part of the sport, i spend more time making than i do shooting anyway, so its all good


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

A while ago I was tinkering with some very light butterfly bands. I was getting almost 200fps with 3/8" steel and less than a 6 lb draw weight.

*Theraband Black (1" x 12" straight cut @60", 5 3/4 lb draw weight) *
3/8" lead = 185 fps
3/8" steel = 197 fps
5/16" steel = 220 fps

*Theraband Black (1" x 11" straight cut @60", 7 pound draw weight)*
3/8" lead = 193 fps
3/8" steel = 205 fps
5/16" steel = 227 fps

Cheers,
Northerner


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

yup, thanks Northerner, i have to get some tbb, GOOD INFO!


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

well my Hays scorpion, seal sniper, and ring shooter should be here in the mail today, and i have thera black coming hopefully by friday, i am going to try different bands with the ring shooter, but one way or another with a lot of practice and the butterfly method me and the ring shooter vs damn flies this summer, it will be either them or me!


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

The acronym "tbb" could pertain to theraband blue as well. Perhaps TBBk vs. TBBu would delineate the two...?

Sounds like quite a party. Coarse sand would work to down those flies realistically, on the wing too.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

At the risk of redundant posting, I will pass along the following. Here is a slingshot I have been using recently for butterfly shooting:










It is my modified Ninja design, cut from 1/2 inch thick high density polyethylene from a cutting board. I have stretched a section of bicycle innertube over the handle for a non-slip grip. I have also added a lanyard with a cable lock. I have used leather Gypsy tabs with small bolts and acorn nuts to attach bands made from braided #64 rubberbands. In the configuration shown, I have used 8 bands per side, as I have been shooting full butterfly with it. At full butterfly, it shoots 3/8 inch steel ball (54 gr) at 185-190 fps. Surprisingly it shoots 3/8 inch lead ball (79 gr) at the same speed. That indicates that 190 fps is probably the maximum velocity for these bands. But these bands can handle a lot of weight. They shoot my hunting slugs cast from my wooden mold in the Tutorial section (140 gr) at 170 fps. With the heavy ammo moving at that velocity, it is more than adequate for taking small game.

Using the braided rubberbands, it is very quick and easy to lengthen or to shorten the bands to suit your particular draw and arm length. If you are interested in trying the butterfly style, I highly recommend braided office rubberbands as a good place to start. With the set-up I use, there is no cutting of bands and no tying at pouch or at fork.

Cheers ....... Charles


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

I wonder when the bands shoot lead and steel of the same size at the same speed: what does that tell us?


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

t


mr.joel said:


> I wonder when the bands shoot lead and steel of the same size at the same speed: what does that tell us?


that tells you "Joel, use the lead"


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Charles said:


> At the risk of redundant posting, I will pass along the following. Here is a slingshot I have been using recently for butterfly shooting:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


i just might have to try the office bands Charles, yours always looks neat and manageable.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

pop shot said:


> I wonder when the bands shoot lead and steel of the same size at the same speed: what does that tell us?


that tells you "Joel, use the lead"
[/quote]yeah buddy!


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

I would tend to agree, but I meant in terms of the science of it: does it mean the bands are shooting too little mass of a projectile? Would a lighter band be more efficient, or is this an optimal state of affairs?


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> I would tend to agree, but I meant in terms of the science of it: does it mean the bands are shooting too little mass of a projectile? Would a lighter band be more efficient, or is this an optimal state of affairs?


i am far from an expert, and unless you are using a chrony? how are you sure they are being shot at the same speed? plus you have to consider that if the 2 different materials lead vs steel, the lead projectile would have more energy on impact.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

Yes, obviously...I was wondering, assuming this is true would this indicate to go up in power, or leave it alone (using lead) if both bullets velocities are the same.

In nature, we often we have indicators, like when tempering a spring steel knife, it gets heated to the point of being non-magnetic indicating time to quench for example. I wonder what this indicator means.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

i think this would be best answered by you, if you require more power and handle it well, than i think for myself i defiantly would increase band power (width, taper, make shorter) for myself i want the most speed i can handle even if band life suffers a bit. i prefer a thud to a tinkle.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

mr.joel said:


> I wonder when the bands shoot lead and steel of the same size at the same speed: what does that tell us?


It could be that my measurements were in error for some obscure reason ... alas, I cannot claim infallibility!

It could be that there is a slight difference (maybe 5 to 10 fps) but the difference is less than the spread in my test shots. If I had a completely mechanical set up and could thereby eliminate slight differences in draw length and release technique, a difference might show up. [For the record, I have such a test device about half completed ... but more about that later.] In any case, the differences do not seem to be great.

I still believe the speculation I made in my post is the answer: given the set-up I was using, 190 fps was probably about the fastest those bands would retract ... moving from 54 to 79 grains was not enough to noticeably slow the bands any further. I guess I could try to shoot even lighter projectiles than 3/8 inch steel to check out that supposition, but I have other projects on the go at the moment, and my chrony is packed away.

Cheers ........ Charles


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## timdix (Oct 1, 2010)

Charles,the draw weight must be monstrous if those chains are doing steel and lead the same speed. Jettison half of those rubber bands and I'm sure you'll be smoking the 3/8.
Managed to do a round of tests yesterday after returning from holiday. Tried some "feral tapers": a loop of 1745 joined to single 23mm straight TBG totalling 27cm rigged butterfly.They flopped. With 3/8 steel they managed around 280-290fps. The standard 1745 tapered set up by comparison was doing around 310-315fps @28C.
These 1745's were nicely broken in and hot to touch so I tried a few at absolute maximum. Result: 339 then 352fps with 3/8!! I botched a release with the next shot sending a ball through a sheet of gyprock and into the neighbour's colourbond fence (no penetration fortunately). I sheepishly packed it in after that and slipped quietly inside! Yep,I won't be lighting match heads with that sort of control but fascinating all the same!


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

timdix said:


> Charles,the draw weight must be monstrous if those chains are doing steel and lead the same speed. Jettison half of those rubber bands and I'm sure you'll be smoking the 3/8.


I guess I do no understand either of these comments.

Concerning draw weight: I am shooting about 3/4 butterfly with this set-up ... has to do with an old rotator cuff injury and arthritis. Anyway, my measured draw length at 3/4 butterfly is about 48 inches. I just measured the draw weight and it is 12 pounds. At least in my book, 12 pounds is not monstrous at all. If I wanted to go to full butterfly, I could just add a couple of more #64s to each side to get added draw length with no appreciable increase in draw weight.

Also, I cannot understand why you would think that taking off half the rubberbands would increase the velocity. Taking off half the rubberbands would drastically decrease the draw length, leading to a decrease in velocity (assuming the same draw weight). If I wanted increased velocity with a shorter draw length, making a tapered set-up would be the way to go.

Cheers ....... Charles


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## lightleak (Jan 30, 2012)

Charles said:


> At the risk of redundant posting, I will pass along the following. Here is a slingshot I have been using recently for butterfly shooting:


Wow, how did I miss that?! This setup looks really great. I want to try rubber bands now!

ll.


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## torsten (Feb 9, 2010)

mr.joel said:


> Black is great, but I hope you like making bandsets...










that is a cool post







And a true post! Speed kills bands...
But seriously: Shooting butterfly means for me to have much more speed with the same draw weight than with the short draw style. Or the same speed with much less draw weight.
Accuracy: hm...I`m not sure and can`t explain it with my poor English, but maybe the short draw style is maybe more accurate at short distances and butterfly at longer distances, with the help of the higher speed. There are some points why I think so, but it would take me 2 hours, google translator and a dictionary to explain it in English, sorry









Regards
Torsten


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

torsten said:


> Black is great, but I hope you like making bandsets...










that is a cool post







And a true post! Speed kills bands...
But seriously: Shooting butterfly means for me to have much more speed with the same draw weight than with the short draw style. Or the same speed with much less draw weight.
Accuracy: hm...I`m not sure and can`t explain it with my poor English, but maybe the short draw style is maybe more accurate at short distances and butterfly at longer distances, with the help of the higher speed. There are some points why I think so, but it would take me 2 hours, google translator and a dictionary to explain it in English, sorry









Regards
Torsten
[/quote]
I agree with you there, Torsten. the trajectory of a butterfly shot is very flat compared to a shorter draw shot. at 30 yds for butterfly i use the same aiming reference as ten yards for short draw.


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## timdix (Oct 1, 2010)

Sorry Charles,had better explain. I would have expected a 12lb draw to yield at least a 5% speed drop off going from 3/8 steel to lead so I had assumed the draw weight was much greater. Similar to you I have a suspect right AC joint so I have an aversion to super heavy butterfly draws. 
Clearly removing half the bands with same draw length would be slower. However drawing the bands right out would be a snip with a 6 lb draw and should produce speeds far north of 185-190 for 3/8 steel. For me it's like going from double Tex express bands(16lb) to a single(8lb). I can shoot the single per side way faster with 3/8 as I can't draw the doubles comfortably to their maximum. Luckily I'm another who doesn't mind knocking up bandsets. I wish I could enjoy shooting 3/8 at 200fps but the energy seems so anaemic.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

torsten said:


> Black is great, but I hope you like making bandsets...










that is a cool post







And a true post! Speed kills bands...
But seriously: Shooting butterfly means for me to have much more speed with the same draw weight than with the short draw style. Or the same speed with much less draw weight.
Accuracy: hm...I`m not sure and can`t explain it with my poor English, but maybe the short draw style is maybe more accurate at short distances and butterfly at longer distances, with the help of the higher speed. There are some points why I think so, but it would take me 2 hours, google translator and a dictionary to explain it in English, sorry









Regards
Torsten
[/quote]

I used your videos to learn how to use the stuff, you would know. It's too bad about the language barrier, I'd like to hear what you have to say. Translators suck, my students in the past would often try to pass off papers using it and I would always bust them cold as it always comes out wrong.

Don't ask me why this thing insists on posting quotes twice?


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

Here's a rig i was playing round with a few weeks ago, its a generic brand of band, that at full butterfly draw is very easy pull. Shooting 9mm lead in excess of 330fps and 5/16 steel approaching 360fps! Band life isnt that of tb blue, but still spits them balls out pretty quick! Tapered from 25 to 18mm.. cheers all.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

bullseyeben! said:


> Here's a rig i was playing round with a few weeks ago, its a generic brand of band, that at full butterfly draw is very easy pull. Shooting 9mm lead in excess of 330fps and 5/16 steel approaching 360fps! Band life isnt that of tb blue, but still spits them balls out pretty quick! Tapered from 25 to 18mm.. cheers all.


looks great Ben, now i just need to get good at it, how do you like the butterfly?


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

newconvert said:


> Here's a rig i was playing round with a few weeks ago, its a generic brand of band, that at full butterfly draw is very easy pull. Shooting 9mm lead in excess of 330fps and 5/16 steel approaching 360fps! Band life isnt that of tb blue, but still spits them balls out pretty quick! Tapered from 25 to 18mm.. cheers all.


looks great Ben, now i just need to get good at it, how do you like the butterfly?
[/quote] Ooopsie sorry the bands I just posted were tapered down to about 8mm not 
18 sorry! 
Yes mate I do enjoy the longer draw shooting, most of my daily shooting is at or over 15m or yards, so I do like a ball to go straight to what I'm aiming at, and limiting the height correction due to lower speeds..but thats just me, plenty of spot on shooters who draw shorter..


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

bullseyeben! said:


> Here's a rig i was playing round with a few weeks ago, its a generic brand of band, that at full butterfly draw is very easy pull. Shooting 9mm lead in excess of 330fps and 5/16 steel approaching 360fps! Band life isnt that of tb blue, but still spits them balls out pretty quick! Tapered from 25 to 18mm.. cheers all.


looks great Ben, now i just need to get good at it, how do you like the butterfly?
[/quote] Ooopsie sorry the bands I just posted were tapered down to about 8mm not
18 sorry!
Yes mate I do enjoy the longer draw shooting, most of my daily shooting is at or over 15m or yards, so I do like a ball to go straight to what I'm aiming at, and limiting the height correction due to lower speeds..but thats just me, plenty of spot on shooters who draw shorter..
[/quote]i am looking to do both, it seems to me its better to explore all aspects of the sport in order to get better


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

I agree completely, sometimes you don't know you got it, until you try it.. just take my baby boy for example lol....


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

pop shot said:


> I'd try with black blue or red doubles if you're learning. My black setup is 22-12mm x 250mm ties to ties. The red is 30/20mm same length. Draw length is 162 cm. 650% speed- outta control.


got my black today, so before i start cutting i am working on the best "practice" length


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

Black and blue are superior in terms of performance for smaller size shot in butterfly, at least for me. However considering the longevity issues associated with using these, I have no aversion to TBG or similar thickness latex.


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

We often hear a lot about life span of flats, so these longer band cuts I find last longer than shorter cuts mainly because there's more rubber stressed less, but yet has more acceleration distance to gain velocity... but on the life span regarding the different thickness of say tb blue bs gold, I personally find the blue can last just as long.. my theory has always been that the bands often wear pouch end first, I use the wrap n tuck tie, not the constrictor knot, so I always try to wrap n tuck with a softer or lighter gauge rubber than the bands being shot..ei tbgold bands=tbblue ties.. I think the softer tie rubber pro longs the band life itself by not being so....abrassive I guess, works for me any thoughts? Cheers all


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

Using a softer rubber for a tie seems moot- after all, you stretch it when wrapping it which makes it harder...perhaps not if you don't stretch.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> We often hear a lot about life span of flats, so these longer band cuts I find last longer than shorter cuts mainly because there's more rubber stressed less, but yet has more acceleration distance to gain velocity... but on the life span regarding the different thickness of say tb blue bs gold, I personally find the blue can last just as long.. my theory has always been that the bands often wear pouch end first, I use the wrap n tuck tie, not the constrictor knot, so I always try to wrap n tuck with a softer or lighter gauge rubber than the bands being shot..ei tbgold bands=tbblue ties.. I think the softer tie rubber pro longs the band life itself by not being so....abrassive I guess, works for me any thoughts? Cheers all


i agree with you here Ben, the knots are solid, unforgiving, not bad in terms of strength, but the natural tendency of the lighter band ties just makes sense, it has to move with the stretching thera, where the cotton or nylon use in knots just holds the bands from moving. that alone would cause wear.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

Like I was saying it would depend on how tight you wrap the tie. If you wrap it tight, how is it any different as it is equally immobile as a string. The thin diameter of the string might apply more pressure in a smaller area, like a high heeled shoe. The strands of the string themselves as they are corded might cause abrasion too.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> Like I was saying it would depend on how tight you wrap the tie. If you wrap it tight, how is it any different as it is equally immobile as a string. The thin diameter of the string might apply more pressure in a smaller area, like a high heeled shoe. The strands of the string themselves as they are corded might cause abrasion too.


exactly


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

On a recent test at butterfly shooting to get more speed, I noticed that my bands were not lasting near as long, even with a long ramp slingshot. This prompted me to make a test just stretching tied bands with out shooting anything. When stretching tied bands over a certain stretch ratio multiple times with out releasing, tears started pretty quickly. This started to happen at about a 4.5 to 1 ratio and got worse as the ratio increased. Now I am using a longer band when I shoot butterfly. I lose some speed, but the bands last longer and it is more comfortable to shoot. -- Tex


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

So is it that you wrap the rubber tie loosely? I've tried this but can't seem to do it uniformly on both sides, not that it likely matters.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> So is it that you wrap the rubber tie loosely? I've tried this but can't seem to do it uniformly on both sides, not that it likely matters.


not loosly, but thinner strips similar to Torstens vid on the first page of this topic


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Tex-Shooter said:


> On a recent test at butterfly shooting to get more speed, I noticed that my bands were not lasting near as long, even with a long ramp slingshot. This prompted me to make a test just stretching tied bands with out shooting anything. When stretching tied bands over a certain stretch ratio multiple times with out releasing, tears started pretty quickly. This started to happen at about a 4.5 to 1 ratio and got worse as the ratio increased. Now I am using a longer band when I shoot butterfly. I lose some speed, but the bands last longer and it is more comfortable to shoot. -- Tex


i too have a set of your bands on my howitzer, they are 2" by 1" by 13 " they are very fast, and dont show any sign of wear yet


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

newconvert said:


> So is it that you wrap the rubber tie loosely? I've tried this but can't seem to do it uniformly on both sides, not that it likely matters.


not loosly, but thinner strips similar to Torstens vid on the first page of this topic
[/quote]

Yes, he wraps them pretty tight. I suspect that the space lost compared to string is somewhat irrelevant as butterfly bands are much longer.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> So is it that you wrap the rubber tie loosely? I've tried this but can't seem to do it uniformly on both sides, not that it likely matters.


not loosly, but thinner strips similar to Torstens vid on the first page of this topic
[/quote]

Yes, he wraps them pretty tight. I suspect that the space lost compared to string is somewhat irrelevant as butterfly bands are much longer.
[/quote]when it come to ties it is really hard for me to say which is better, i just talk materials and natural forces, i never have a set on long enough to really do torture tests. i am constantly tinkering, looking for better, stronger, quicker, in truth i have yet to break a band set, nor have had a set come untied, now that i have a very full variety i am kinda settling in and aiming at using specific ss's for specific ammo, now maybe i can start getting the high volume counts on a band set.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

You've NEVER broken a band set? Where is this magical latex you're using? I've never had one come untied though regardless of tie used.


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

mr.joel said:


> You've NEVER broken a band set? Where is this magical latex you're using? I've never had one come untied though regardless of tie used.


nope never, but like i said i switch regularly, i have an plastic box filled with the makings for bandsets, with different lengths and widths, but now that i am settling into my likes and dislikes i look forward to using a bandset long enough to break one


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Tex-Shooter said:


> On a recent test at butterfly shooting to get more speed, I noticed that my bands were not lasting near as long, even with a long ramp slingshot. This prompted me to make a test just stretching tied bands with out shooting anything. When stretching tied bands over a certain stretch ratio multiple times with out releasing, tears started pretty quickly. This started to happen at about a 4.5 to 1 ratio and got worse as the ratio increased. Now I am using a longer band when I shoot butterfly. I lose some speed, but the bands last longer and it is more comfortable to shoot. -- Tex


Excellent test, Tex. Thanks for this one!!!

Cheers ....... Charles


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

newconvert said:


> You've NEVER broken a band set? Where is this magical latex you're using? I've never had one come untied though regardless of tie used.


nope never, but like i said i switch regularly, i have an plastic box filled with the makings for bandsets, with different lengths and widths, but now that i am settling into my likes and dislikes i look forward to using a bandset long enough to break one
[/quote]

Newconvert, you need to shoot more!!!!! If you aren't wearing out bands, you are not shooting enough ....
















Cheers ..... Charles


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

Charles said:


> You've NEVER broken a band set? Where is this magical latex you're using? I've never had one come untied though regardless of tie used.


nope never, but like i said i switch regularly, i have an plastic box filled with the makings for bandsets, with different lengths and widths, but now that i am settling into my likes and dislikes i look forward to using a bandset long enough to break one
[/quote]

Newconvert, you need to shoot more!!!!! If you aren't wearing out bands, you are not shooting enough ....
















Cheers ..... Charles
[/quote]just for you i will Charles


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## newconvert (Dec 12, 2011)

well my TBB came in, i banded up my howitzer, its very quick at 1 1/2= 38mm x 1=25mm x 12 = 300mm at around 56" draw, its fun since its so fast, but this raises a question i have not seen here before, i do use the finger wings for support while shooting, and get the occasional hand slap not on target side, but on shooter side, i think i know but whats your impressions? i spoke at length with Tobias, he said that even though the Howitzer has the finger wings he shoots it hammer, and for him i see why he throws some monster ammo at crazy speed down range, i thought the back hand slaps were due to using the wings, but using just the hammer grip my hand is not much lower on the ss?


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