# Variant Attachment



## smitty

The use of the leather for attaching rubber bands, by Nick and jmplsnt, kept me thinking this weekend. I have shot through three different sets of flat-bands this weekend, all broke at the pouch. I take a lot of care to tie them to last too. Even used rubber to tie some at the pouch, but it usually ends up the same. After a few hundred shots the band breaks. When I thought of someones' child getting a slingshot from me to shoot and then coming into the house crying, because the bands broke within a few days of getting the slingshot, bothered me. 
The information Nick and jmplsnt supplied for using leather to tie on rubber bands seemed like something that could be used to adapt tubes to a flat-band slingshots safely and provide an alternative for shooting with the same slingshot. Then, while making up a new center hole pouch the light came on. I haven't shot with it yet, but it seems very promising to me.
I'm wondering what the folks here think about this. Just remember my technique is a bit sloppy, but I learned from the first fork tip and did the second one better.


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## Dayhiker

Smitty, I don't see the advantage over just drilling through the groove in the fork, like you were doing before.


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## smitty

I think the leather will be easier on the rubber than the wood and the position of the tube for over the top seems like it is better too. If I would use a peg below the leather, through the loop in the tube it would be super fast to change tubes also. I'm not sure if it is better than a hole in the fork, but it is something to experiment with. The main reason I am interested in using the leather, is a way to use tubes on a regular flat-band slingshot, by just having an attachment for mounting tubes without having to modify it, with no way to turn back. Drilling a hole through a collector fork would be terrible.


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## Dayhiker

> Drilling a hole through a collector fork would be terrible.


For sure!

. . . I will be watching your experiments in this vein closely, thanks for sharing them.


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## Bill Hays

Smitty, I'd just camfer the hole through the fork on both sides. Picture a conical counter sink.... then use a cone shaped grinding bit to finish up.


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## joseph_curwen

I find this clever


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## mr.joel

I liked the leather draped over the flats like the first one Smitty made. Why drill, chamfer, etc., when these are unnecessary modifications? The leather tab setup looks far more efficient as well as keeping the rubber on the same plane as when you shoot flats, but perhaps not as efficient?


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

This is all very nice, I see nothing wrong with it, but how does it help the bands at the pouch not break?


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## smitty

This is a way to go ahead and use chinese style tubes instead of flat-bands. It was the flat-bands that were breaking at the pouch. I am just trying to explore ways to use small diameter tubes on slingshots that were designed to use flat-bands, without any perment modifications. These tubes have plenty of performance for me, I don't need the extra that flats are said to have and I get tired of my flats breaking during almost every long shooting session.
Also, a forum is here for the free exchange of information and ideas. I am simply putting this out so it can be explored by many and lessen the time to arrive at a decision based upon experience. All through the march of man, some have said "why?" and the responce is always..."because it is there to explore". I am just exploring possabilities that come to mind with the help of my friends here on the forum.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

smitty said:


> This is a way to go ahead and use chinese style tubes instead of flat-bands. It was the flat-bands that were breaking at the pouch. I am just trying to explore ways to use small diameter tubes on slingshots that were designed to use flat-bands, without any perment modifications. These tubes have plenty of performance for me, I don't need the extra that flats are said to have and I get tired of my flats breaking during almost every long shooting session.
> Also, a forum is here for the free exchange of information and ideas. I am simply putting this out so it can be explored by many and lessen the time to arrive at a decision based upon experience. All through the march of man, some have said "why?" and the responce is always..."because it is there to explore". I am just exploring possabilities that come to mind with the help of my friends here on the forum.


That's a very good answer.


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## NightKnight

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> This is a way to go ahead and use chinese style tubes instead of flat-bands. It was the flat-bands that were breaking at the pouch. I am just trying to explore ways to use small diameter tubes on slingshots that were designed to use flat-bands, without any perment modifications. These tubes have plenty of performance for me, I don't need the extra that flats are said to have and I get tired of my flats breaking during almost every long shooting session.
> Also, a forum is here for the free exchange of information and ideas. I am simply putting this out so it can be explored by many and lessen the time to arrive at a decision based upon experience. All through the march of man, some have said "why?" and the responce is always..."because it is there to explore". I am just exploring possabilities that come to mind with the help of my friends here on the forum.


That's a very good answer.
[/quote]
+1


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## Brooklyn00003

Did you try attacing tubes over the top just like flatbands? How long did they last for you? For me they lasted maybe 20 shots like that


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## smitty

Oh yeah, I have attached them just like flats and have had pretty good luck with them lasting. I wrap them with rubber bands, not string. The only thing I don't like is I have to pay more attention to pulling them over the top than I would like. When shooting with the leather yesterday they were great and recovered very well for the next shot. I think someone like Geko would find it nice for speed shooting too. The tubes kinda stood out ready for reload. Very seldom did I have to untwist or untangle them. I only shot a few hundred rounds though, so that is just a quick look at the attachment. 
Hope a few others decide to give it a try and help me to decide if it is worth it. So far I like it, but I always like something when it is new and then end up going back to standard after a while.


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## Paul

Smitty,

We're waiting for the results.
Besides, I want to see how it goes. I'd like to try it myself.

Paul


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## Sam

Interesting, you strike me as very resourceful and ingenious Smitty! What kinda improvement are you seeing?


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Very seldom did I have to untwist or untangle them.
[/quote]

This has been annoying me so much recently, I am testing my square bands compared to my flats, in comparison, there is almost no rapid fire on the flats. Something I noticed on the squares, was that they catch and tear on the ammo, they last longer than flats but they get very tender; I don't use tubes, but do they suffer with this kind of tearing?


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## smitty

I shot with it more this morning and noticed some wear on the rubber right at the leather hole. I just took those tubes out and lubed the hole with some wax to lessen the rubbing. Baumstaam suggested I try it with the hole facing the shooter, so I am going to try it if this lubrication doesn't help. Another thing to try would be to just run the tubing through the loop, but I was trying for something similar to over the top.
Maybe silicone grease would be a better lube, but I don't have any...yet.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Could you tie the tubes over the top, with elastic around the fork? like you would tie on flats but with tubes. I like the leather strops, but I was thinking this might be even simpler.


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## smitty

You can, and so far it is the best way I have used. Flatband suggested I use that method and looks like there just might be no better way to do it.


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## jephroux

BIG WORDS
BY A EVEN BIGER MAN
way to go smitt man!!!!!!!!!








a forum is here for the free exchange of information and ideas. I am simply putting this out so it can be explored by many and lessen the time to arrive at a decision based upon experience. All through the march of man, some have said "why?" and the responce is always..."because it is there to explore". I am just exploring possabilities that come to mind with the help of my friends here on the forum.


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## wd40

View attachment 2946


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## smitty

Good looking attachments, especially with the Trumark plastic. How do they shoot. Here is what I am trying now:








Notice the peg for a quick change. I think these, being flexible, flex with the rubber more and help it to last longer. They shoot very well, but still have not proven them to last longer than attaching like flats.


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## Dayhiker

Smitty, what tube size are you using?


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## smitty

17-45 and 20-40 Chinese sizes from Dankung.


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## NoSugarRob

have you tied the tubes on the other side of the pegs ? if not, what stops the pegs from falling out ?


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## smitty

Rob, the hole in the leather is small enough to keep some tension on the peg when the rubber is stretched through it. Too large a hole wouldn't be a good idea for peg retention.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

wd40 said:


> View attachment 2946


Does the plastic of the tie, not cut into the rubber?


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## joseph_curwen

smitty said:


> Good looking attachments, especially with the Trumark plastic. How do they shoot. Here is what I am trying now:
> View attachment 2947
> 
> 
> Notice the peg for a quick change. I think these, being flexible, flex with the rubber more and help it to last longer. They shoot very well, but still have not proven them to last longer than attaching like flats.


i really like this way of attanching tubes. I'm waiting for my 1745 to test it


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Do you find the release has more flex, so it can be off target easier?


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## baumstamm

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> View attachment 2946


Does the plastic of the tie, not cut into the rubber?
[/quote]

no, the plastic didnt cut the rubber. i´ve used cabel ties when i can´t wait shooting a new fork. there are much more elegant ways to tie the lether . with this atatchment tubes last much longer then any other i´ve tryed. it might be dangerous because of the heavy dowels, but i didn´t have any problems with. it is very pricise!!


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## jmplsnt

With my tabs, I have always attempted to select leather that is very strong, yet somewhat soft and pliant. I also run the elastic completely around the tab and bind it back on itself. In the beginning this was simply just because it was the way I saw others made. Now that I have some off-hitches under my belt shooting with this style of catapult I can offer a few observations on why elastics do so well with it:

1) I use strong but somewhat soft and pliant leather. When the elastic is stretched the leather's shape changes from flat to curved. This gives the elastic something curved to pull against versus what you would think of as sharp edges on the leather. When you release the tension the leather returns to its normal shape.

2) By using the multiple-strand chains, each of the strands is taking some of the strain. In my experience (and the experts may differ) rubber is under the greatest danger from abrasion on its edges. By having ten edges stretching less than two edges getting maximum stretch you're going to have less band breakage. I also don't taper as I feel the thickness at the pouch end keeps my bands alive much longer.

3) I bind my bands, be they chains or tubes, on my tabs with just a tiny bit of stretch room. By this I mean the portion bound around the leather tab can stretch a small amount, too. This is my fail-safe which gives the band just a little bit extra to stretch in the event they are "up against the wall".

4) In reference to #3, what I mean by this is the width of the leather tab creates a loop for the band as it runs around it. They are tied securely; there is no hanging loop as in the dankungs. The secured loop is still of course elastic material and while it doesn't stretch the wild majority of shots when it's needed it can and does stretch. The wild majority of band failures are either at the pocket or fork. By giving the band a little insurance (without making it overly long, or for that matter longer period) the tabs allow them to stretch when their laccy is in a bind. Everyone knows elastics stretch more at the pocket end, and this is why, in my opinion, tapered bands break more quickly. Even if the band is not tapered (as with the cadenas) by giving the band an oppurtunity to flex that little bit more you're extending the life of the band without really changing the band's length more than a few millimeters. And when this little extra (which in reality isn't extra at all) keeps me from changing elastics that's a fine, fine thing.

5) Finally, on a gypsy tabs slingshot strapped up as I do mine, the point where the elastic leads back from the fork is completely free of any touching, interference, and abrasion from the fork. The elastic leads straight back to the shooter and when released doesn't abrade against the fork, period, due to it's being bound on itself. If you think about it, almost every style of slingshot has this kind of abrasion--tube-on rods, over-the-top, through-the-hole (Milbro), and Mexican tie (though not as bad as the others). I'm not presenting this kind of slingshot as some sort of miracle cure but it does solve many of the pressing problems in a very low-key and low-tech way and offers much to shooters who will give it a chance.

I want everyone to know I'm not pushing my style of slingshot or bands on anyone; just offering my two cents. I welcome spirited debate on the above points!

Smitty you've beaten me to the punch on this, though I have done this with a knockoff Milbro recently in order to mount the cadenas and it works fine.


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## Dayhiker

Hey Jmp,
Just couldn't wait for you to get off the boat. I was really missing shooting the BadBoy, so I re-armed her with the closest thing I could find at the hardware store -- 1/4" diameter surgical tube. Also because I really like your all-purpose pouch I kept it. But I changed to the "knot-in-tube" connection, which is working out nicely. Don't know, but I think this might last longer than the kink-and-tie. I have been able to keep a 9" grouping at 18 yds. with this, the first day of shooting. (1/2" steel)
Love this catty, man!


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## jmplsnt

Looks good to me. Keep us posted regarding how it works and its durability. I also like the use of hardware store materials to keep things going. For those wondering about my Point #1, you can look at Dayhiker's first picture in his preceding post for a perfect illustration.

BTW, I began the Countdown at sundown today......one week out!


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## Deimos

whats wrong with using the common flatband method?








I used some red tube to protect the yellow XD

the back, you see, I don't like my bands moving, lol


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## baumstamm

if u don´t protect this place u will get to much friction and abrasion there .
but how abt shooting like the nick do? not pulling against the fork like here the rubber flys streight over the fork. this could be better 4 tubes, i´don´t know?


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## Nico

baumstamm said:


> if u don´t protect this place u will get to much friction and abrasion there .
> but how abt shooting like the nick do? not pulling against the fork like here the rubber flys streight over the fork. this could be better 4 tubes, i´don´t know?


Thats why I favor this method because it always flighs over the fork (no fork hits ever) the key is using the right insulation for the rubber you are attaching, I have used this method with tubes and with round solids having lasted me well over 500 shots without any wear signs. Pulling against the ties with this method is safe as long as you use enough rubberbands and prepare the fork correctly.

The secret to wear prevention in this method is connected to the insulator that you use. The other side is how the fork is carved which is something I shared with DH.

Here's a fork with round solids using this attachment I have had it for months barely now showing signs of wear from shooting








I have a co-worker from Nayarit Mexico that also used this attachment, he said that he would use a thin plastic strip as insulation before tying with rubberbands. He said they always lasted him 6 months shooting/hunting I admit I have never tried the plastic strip but I think its a good idea and even some wide bike innertube strips and a cloth insulator like I use befor tying down with rubberbands.

You have to carve your fork in this manner for the Mexican tie down method






this is a half knotch in the front this is to trap and hold the rubberband ties in place and creates greater constriction hold. 






this is the back it is flat and where you install the bands and where you draw back the bands. This method works with all elastics and I even have an antler fork with black squares attached in this way.


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