# Am I tying tubes wrong?



## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

I've been trying to get into shooting smaller ammo: 1/4" steel and .177 BB's. I've got 3 meters of 1632 tubing and thought I'd tie some single tubes onto a pouch and give it a go. Up until now I've been using looped 1632 on a chinese frame. I also tied on some single 1842 rubber cause I was feeling fancy. Same set up, but using 3/8" steel.

I got my two frames all set up using gypsy tabs and homemade pouches, and went outside to give it a go. Much to my disappointment my shots were all over the place. They were just bad, they were diving into the dirt, or sailing wide. The 1/4" steel was off, but the 3/8" steel was nosediving into the dirt on shot, then sailing high the next.

What am I doing wrong? I'm confident my release and pouches are fine (I've been using the same design and leather for the last year, and my release hasn't changed). My tabs haven't changed either. Am I banding up single tubes wrong? Is it possible they're twisted and not flying true while releasing? I tried to make sure the pouch and tabs were connected with the tube straight and not twisted one way or the other.

I could always just try to tie them on again, but making bands is my least favorite part of the sport and I'd like to hear your thoughts and tips before I do anymore work. Thanks for any feedback!


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## Long John (Jun 20, 2019)

With my little experience I would only suggest double checking band length- pouch to band ends and pouch to fork tips after attachment. Possibly a pre tension issue at the pouch ties?









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## Long John (Jun 20, 2019)

Also, when tying pseudos, it seems the loop end ties need to be on top of the tube 90 degrees in relation to the pouch ties, when flat or not under tension. If that makes sense lol

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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

Not much experience with tubes other than I'm useless at tieing pseudo's lol

I'd check tube length and that the distance the ties are made are the same. Also worth making sure they aren't twisted when making up.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Can you upload a picture of the setup?

I have an idea - but seeing would confirm.

These both using singles? If so check the length of each tube. Like AKA says make sure they're not twisted (singles tend to do this from time to time (and its not always obvious).

If Pseudo - tie them as singles. pseudo's if not tied just right can slip at the loop changing either sides length (would result in all kinds of interestingness)

1632 full looped (if you are using this) I find is a little heavy for 6mm - also may be binding on the tabs - which would cause uneven loops on draw - again having shots be very inconsistent.


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

If I read the post correctly you are using single tubes on gypsies tabs? You don't specify band length.

Tubes usually come in rolls so the tubes have a slight curve when you cut them to length. Make sure that when you tie the pouch and the tabs the tubes both curve outward. Make sure you don't get the tube twisted when you tie them to the forks. After each shot make sure you are getting the tube untangled. It is hard to tell if the tubes are flipped on single tubes. All these will really give you some wild shots.


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

Here's my two setups. The smaller frame has 1632 tubes and a new pouch on there. It hasn't been too bad, just a little wild. The GS10 has 1840 tubes and homemade pouch. I didn't think I got my tubes twisted, but perhaps I did when I tied them on. You can't see in the pictures, but the gapper frame has a little wobble in one of the tubes, like it was kinked from being rolled up. The GS10 tubes do bow in slightly when it's at rest (whereas GG said they should bow out slightly to either side). The tubes are cut to 6" each for a 30" draw, and they are even.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Your tabs the same length? The one looks like the one tab is sitting higher than the other - would result in a canted effect possibly.

Other than that actually looks OK - only other consideration is user error 

I do like making my bands slightly longer than required - say in your case like 6.5"


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

mattwalt said:


> Your tabs the same length? The one looks like the one tab is sitting higher than the other - would result in a canted effect possibly.
> 
> Other than that actually looks OK - only other consideration is user error
> 
> I do like making my bands slightly longer than required - say in your case like 6.5"


I saw that too, but I think it's mainly due to the frame shape. When I pull the bands back the tabs seem to line up equally along the forks. I don't know guys... I'm gonna try to put a couple more dozen shots off each to make sure I'm not doing anything stupid, and them maybe take it all apart and redo it. Thanks for the input though! I like the speed the 1840's give me, but don't like doubling them up. Just a little too much muscle needed to pull it back, and I like to shoot for fun so I'm not looking for a workout.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

For me 1842 singles are a sweet spot for 3/8 steel - really don't need more than that.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Am I the only one preferring single 2040's for 3/8 steel? I am really a wimp lol ????


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

LOL - no I also like 2040 singles for 3/8 - Just don't think you need more than 1842 (If you need a little more zing)

I've been surprised how well single 1632 works on 1/4 - BB bands but still flings those out with plenty speed. In fact my double looped 1632 which were my go-to for 1/4 now seem way overpowered...


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## Long John (Jun 20, 2019)

mattwalt said:


> LOL - no I also like 2040 singles for 3/8 - Just don't think you need more than 1842 (If you need a little more zing)
> 
> I've been surprised how well single 1632 works on 1/4 - BB bands but still flings those out with plenty speed. In fact my double looped 1632 which were my go-to for 1/4 now seem way overpowered...


Do you use anything to wrap or insulate your singles at the forks?

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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

I tie them either directly to the frame (on looped tube specific frames) or use a small hole with a matchstick attachment. So essentially I am puling against the binding so reinforcing them isn't required.


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

mattwalt said:


> I tie them either directly to the frame (on looped tube specific frames) or use a small hole with a matchstick attachment. So essentially I am puling against the binding so reinforcing them isn't required.


I'm curious about your matchstick method Matt. Does that still allow you to shoot OTT, or does it become more of a TTF setup? Any pics you could post showing how it's done? I've just been using tabs because they're so easy.


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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

Hope you and Matt don't mind me chirping in, I usually upgrade it to a cut off steel tack cut to length inside some 1632 tubing.


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

AKA Forgotten said:


> Hope you and Matt don't mind me chirping in, I usually upgrade it to a cut off steel tack cut to length inside some 1632 tubing.


That looks really simple and clean. The pouch still goes OTT? Or do you have to add a lot of wrist flip?


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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

MikeyLikesIt said:


> AKA Forgotten said:
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> > Hope you and Matt don't mind me chirping in, I usually upgrade it to a cut off steel tack cut to length inside some 1632 tubing.
> ...


Still OTT, once on they behave just like any other attachment method.

The tubes come over forks as usual, with the matchsticks on the shooters side.


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

AKA Forgotten said:


> MikeyLikesIt said:
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I like this look a lot. I'm a sucker for clean attachments, and really hate wrap and tuck methods (for aesthetics only). I'm gonna give it a go with single tubes. Thanks for the help fellas! I got a chance to shoot both frames some more, and it looks like my leather pouch on the 1842 tube set is a little wonky. I use cheap leather and sometimes it stretches unpredictably. I'll try cutting it all up again and rebanding it, but I really need to invest in some quality pouches.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

MikeyLikesIt said:


> AKA Forgotten said:
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Warrior pouches are really cheap. Contact theTurk, and he can send you just one or two. I haven't tried Ray's pouches as postage is $10 from simple shot, so it's not worth it. Now that I think about it, I should ask Ray directly!


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

AKA Forgotten said:


> Hope you and Matt don't mind me chirping in, I usually upgrade it to a cut off steel tack cut to length inside some 1632 tubing.


I find having it go over the top wears the bands quite quickly - this is the same as my approach except I simply pull direct against the 'matchstick'. Its super clean in approach and I make most of my frames to accommodate this attachment - its actually more versatile than you'd think.


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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

skropi said:


> MikeyLikesIt said:
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Totally agree, they are the best I've used and they just get better with time


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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

mattwalt said:


> AKA Forgotten said:
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> 
> > Hope you and Matt don't mind me chirping in, I usually upgrade it to a cut off steel tack cut to length inside some 1632 tubing.
> ...


Thanks Matt, haven't tried that method so something new to try


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

mattwalt said:


> AKA Forgotten said:
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> 
> > Hope you and Matt don't mind me chirping in, I usually upgrade it to a cut off steel tack cut to length inside some 1632 tubing.
> ...


Hey Matt, I'm having trouble envisioning the flight of the pouch if I utilize your method (with the matchstick facing away from me towards my target. Upon release, do the bands have a tendency to stack up as the approach the forks? What I mean is, does the pouch go TTF using this method, or does it still fly OTT? I'd love to try this method but several of my frames have very small fork gaps, so OTT is a necessity for me. Thanks!


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## Thwap (Oct 17, 2018)

mikey, are you giving the pouch a twist? depending in the length of the band setup rigidity, weight, technique, etc., a 90° twist(or even less) can help clean up a funky release


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Yes the bands do stack. However the ammo leaves the pouch before this becomes an issue.


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

Thwap said:


> mikey, are you giving the pouch a twist? depending in the length of the band setup rigidity, weight, technique, etc., a 90° twist(or even less) can help clean up a funky release


No twisting as of yet, but I may give that a try next.


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