# tapers vs flat bands



## alidz (8 mo ago)

Hello all. im tryna gather information about bands so i could shoot as fast as i could, ya, without a 50 pound draw weight. also, i do not have a chronogragh so i really cant test out my theories.

Ok so here is my dilemna. I think the way tapered bands work is that the tips stretch out closer to max elongation, and that makes the band do more work. Right, work is force times distance so the tips are stretched out far and so more force??

But why dont we just shorten a flat band then? Say instead of a tapered 6 inch long tapered band, we take a flat band and just shorten it to say 5 inches. That way, it goes closer to max elongation of the band and we squeeze out more work out of the bands.


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## S.S. sLinGeR (Oct 17, 2013)

Welcome to the forum. Tapers are inherently faster then straights. But won’t last as long. Keep shooting!


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

I got theraband gold, and wanna shoot 7/16 steel ammo. And im trying to optimize band dimensions for it. according to somone on youtube, 7/8 inch wide flatbands are the best flatbands for 7/16 ammo, and theraband gold. but i want to go faster. so theoreticly i could do two things. shorten the band or taper.


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

just wondering why everyone tapers but nobody shortens them


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

here is a scenario. we have a 6 inch long by 1 inch wide flatband. to go faster for shooting a relatively light ammo like 7/16 ammo, we could taper down from 1 inch to like 3/4 inches.

or we could shorten the bands from 6 inch long to 5 inch long for example.

both would shoot faster am i right?

there is one difference im realizing though. shortning a flatband will increase draw weight.
tapering a band lowers it.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Try shortening your bands a couple inches, use your normal draw, shoot for an hour and report back with how comfortable it is.


That's why you use tapers. Less strain on muscles, shoulder, steadier hand, faster for same draw length. The tradeoff is, they don't last as long.

If you are going for speed, you are free to shorten your bands...but you'll probably be in the minority vs tapering them.

Keep in mind, you don't need an extreme taper. My tapers are about 3mm from end to end, last a long time, fast and easy to draw.


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

ok. so ur saying its not worth the extra draw weight. 
now correct me if im wrong here

but now step 2 for optimizing band width is: if ur using heavy ammo and u try too narrow of taper u could be weakening the bands a bit too much and you'll be loosing speed.

damn. alright. so let me get this straight. u have a stock flat band. i just realised there are 3 things u could do for speed. because i gotta think about longevity right? 

and correct me if im wrong mate. im trying to organize my thoughts.

1. taper, but u gotta have the right width. removing too much does the opposite of what u want and u loose speed and longevity .

2. wider flatband for more draw weight. same longevity as original, maybe more speed. but more longevity than taper?

3. shorten flatband for more distance drawn. should add draw weight, but less longevity.

huh. now i really need ur advice here. cuz ive never even shot a taper believe it or not, I've been shooting flatbands all my life.
this here is a question: 
And lets say a great flatband measurement for half inch steel balls is a theraband, 1 inch wide both sides. 
Now i want more speed do i just taper one end of the band and expect better results? for example 1 inch to 3/4 inch?
or do I add width on one end and take off on another. like 1 1/4 to 3/4 for example. 
Because im worried that if i taper i take off too much. 
whats ur opinions here?


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## AppalachianFlipShooter (May 9, 2020)

7/16 (11mm) steel is one of the largest and heaviest ammunitions for a slingshot, around 80 grains. Most folks shoot 1/4-3/8, (6.3-9.5mm) anywhere from 15-60 grains. Theraband Gold used to be the 'gold standard' of slingshot bands, and then the formula & thickness was changed. Some people still use it, but it isn't the best latex to use. As far as tapered vs straight cut bands go, it's been proven time and time again that tapered bands are faster and easier to draw than straight cut bands, not to mention much safer than straight cut bands. Tapered bands almost always break next to the pouch and fly away from your face. Straight cut bands will break anywhere, and can slap you in the mouth, nose, or eyes. If you're shooting short draw, the best balance between speed and longevity is around 500% elongation. For a 30'' draw, you want 6'' of active band length. Active band length is the length of band from the tie at the pouch to where the bands attach to the frame. If you want your setup faster, shorten them to 550-600% elongation, but be prepared for a pretty significant increase in draw weight even if you use light bands. One of my go to hunting setups for 9mm lead and 11mm steel ammo is SimpleShot black .5 thick latex cut at 700% elongation. 4.5 inches of active length and a 30-20 taper, and it absolutely launches both munitions. Stay away from straight cut bands, and get something other than theraband gold for latex. Try a .70 or .80 thick band with a 25-15 taper at 450-500% elongation. Heavier ammo doesn't need to move fast to inflict damage. Get it moving around 240 fps and you're in the green. 

Sent from my SM-N986U using Tapatalk


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Go for it.

Try it and let us know.


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

"Now i want more speed do i just taper one end of the band and expect better results? for example 1 inch to 3/4 inch?
or do I add width on one end and take off on another. like 1 1/4 to 3/4 for example."
Your first example will definitely reduce your draw weight, but probably won't increase speed unless you also shorten the bands, which increases the draw weight. 
Your second example will reduce the draw weight - not as much as the first example - but you will have more speed. 
It's a balancing act that requires some trial and error, and seems to be a bit different for every shooter.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

alidz said:


> ok. so ur saying its not worth the extra draw weight.
> now correct me if im wrong here
> 
> but now step 2 for optimizing band width is: if ur using heavy ammo and u try too narrow of taper u could be weakening the bands a bit too much and you'll be loosing speed.
> ...



Welcome to the forum and the rabbit hole that tapers can be. But it is a fun rabbit hole. 

For tapers, it might help to think about latex in terms of volume rather than in two dimensions. Compare straight cuts to tapers by calculating the volume of latex in the band. Generally, you can match the size or weight of the ball to the volume of latex- this is messier and not many people think this way but it is better than thinking widths when calculating how much latex is needed for a particular ammo..

It really ends up being a trade off between several factors. 

Draw weight- accuracy goes down as draw weight goes up. Tapers allow similar speed with lighter draws.
Speed, the more extreme the taper the better the speed (in general and within limits)
Band life- the more extreme the taper the shorter the band life.
In the end there is also a lot of personal preference in it. If you are a strong person you will be able to shoot a wider band without problem and your ammo speed will go up. If you are not as strong / want to be more accurate you will want a lighter drawing band. There is a lot of experimentation involved in finding the best compromise between draw weight, speed, accuracy, and band durability.

The nice thing is that latex is relatively cheap- a years supply costs less than the ammo you would run through a firearm in an hour or a couple of arrows.

I encourage you to jump in, play around, and have some fun finding the best combo for you. I don't have a good rec for theraband gold since I don't use it much. For other latex like snipersling yellow 0.8, Simpleshot 0.8, or other similar latex I usually make a 27-18 or sometimes 30-20 taper. 

I also do some experimenting and am going to be posting some stuff related to your questions soon.


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## HOE (Nov 13, 2010)

Just slight taper is enough for me, extreme tapering kills band life


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

I dunno about the volume bro. I thought about it and it sounded good for a while but, volume goes down when making flatbands less wide, and that doesnt do much for speed. only tapers or shortening it. 

ok and now i have a headache. so what im gathering is just taper like everybody else. um, less draw weight but more speed to an extent. and i shouldnt mess with wider bands. right, so a couple people shoot double layer bandset. how does this work then.


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

KawKan said:


> "Now i want more speed do i just taper one end of the band and expect better results? for example 1 inch to 3/4 inch?
> or do I add width on one end and take off on another. like 1 1/4 to 3/4 for example."
> Your first example will definitely reduce your draw weight, but probably won't increase speed unless you also shorten the bands, which increases the draw weight.
> Your second example will reduce the draw weight - not as much as the first example - but you will have more speed.
> It's a balancing act that requires some trial and error, and seems to be a bit different for every shooter.


sweet. thanks for ur reply. imma do that then


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

!


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

.


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## madmax96 (Sep 27, 2021)

HOE said:


> Just slight taper is enough for me, extreme tapering kills band life


true, I go for extreme tapers and when I get somewhere in the very roughly 200-500 shots I am ok with it. 
Rolls of bands and the needed rest is easy to get for me and costs close to nothing.


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

Double or triple bands give you more speed and a higher foot-pounds of energy for heavier ammo.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

What do you shoot now and how long have you been shooting?


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

alidz said:


> I dunno about the volume bro. I thought about it and it sounded good for a while but, volume goes down when making flatbands less wide, and that doesnt do much for speed. only tapers or shortening it.
> 
> ok and now i have a headache. so what im gathering is just taper like everybody else. um, less draw weight but more speed to an extent. and i shouldnt mess with wider bands. right, so a couple people shoot double layer bandset. how does this work then.



Think of it this way- a thin band shoots small ammo just fine but doesn't have enough oomph to move a big ball. A wider band does have enough push to get a bigger ball going. First off it is the volume of latex in the band, after that you can decide what shape to put it in to get the most out of it.


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## HOE (Nov 13, 2010)

High Desert Flipper said:


> Think of it this way- a thin band shoots small ammo just fine but doesn't have enough oomph to move a big ball. A wider band does have enough push to get a bigger ball going. First off it is the volume of latex in the band, after that you can decide what shape to put it in to get the most out of it.


Absolute truth!


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## Di9ital (Jan 7, 2022)

alidz said:


> just wondering why everyone tapers but nobody shortens them


Your question is a mixture taper and elongation. Tapers are preferred because they retract quicker than the same amount of latex in a square shape. They also have a lighter draw weight. Onto elongation, every material stretches only so far. They are all slightly different. The closer you get your bands to max elongation the more energy they will produce however this power comes at the cost of band life. Now keep in mind that none of this matters unless you size the ammo properly, in other words you have to efficiently use all the energy. Undersized ammo will cause hand slap and inaccuracies. Oversized ammo can cause speed bumps and fork hits. Trial and error is your friend. Goodluck.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

alidz said:


> just wondering why everyone tapers but nobody shortens them



Tapering is really a "trick" that shortens part of the band. When you shorten a rectangular straight (non-tapered) band you get the entire band stretching more. Get it all stretching to the max and you will get the max power from that band. Note, when you do this with a straight cut band you increase draw weight while you shorten until you reach the limit where the band stops stretching.

When you taper a band you get the narrow part stretching more than the wide end. So you get part of the band stretched to the max. This allows maximum contraction rate from part of the band to propel the ammo. Since this part is narrower and because the wide end is not stretched as much you end up getting this maximum contraction rate without adding as much draw weight as you would need to if getting the same effect from a straight cut band.

And this is why tapers have a shorter lifespan, and also why the more extreme the taper the less durable it is. The elastic at the thin end gets pushed to the limit. And the more extreme the taper the more stress is put on a smaller section of elastic.

But overall, the magic of tapers is they allow part of the band to get stretched to the max and this is how they get better performance with lower draw weights. Or at least this is what the theory is.

Also, as pointed out above, since the stress is at the narrow end of the tapered band, one of the nice things about tapered bands is that they almost always break near the pouch instead of at random places along an equally stressed straight cut band. It is nice to know that most of the broken bands will be flying away from your face rather than having a bunch of them coming back at it.


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## jnjw (10 mo ago)

or learn to shoot butterfly style and use longer bands for max speed


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

ukj said:


> As it seems you are new to this forum and maybe English is not your mother
> tounge may I offer the following terms used.
> Flat band is just that, as opposed to tube.
> You can cut flat band tapered or
> ...


bro. im american. lived there my whole life. lol my english is fine. when i said flat i meant flat. i havent mentioned tubes. ok, the measurements u put up there are for .03 inch thick latex. theraband gold is .025. so imma just add a few mm or something to what u suggested. imma use ur measurements for 1/2 inch balls for my 7/16 balls.


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## alidz (8 mo ago)

jnjw said:


> or learn to shoot butterfly style and use longer bands for max speed


facts man. i think i might have to switch to butterfly. itll be harder to learn but i think way more worth it


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

?


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

.


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## spork (Jun 22, 2019)

Not sure if the video has been posted already but snipersling has a video on youtube titled "Can the tapered band really get higher speed than straight bands?? Let's test it out!"
According to their testing tapering increases the speed but also the draw weight by almost a equal amount. Which is why I've wondered if tapering is worth it over straight cuts?

At the very least directing band breakage to the pouch area seems worth it.


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

Some nice info on the speed of tapered vs straight flat bands.
ukj


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