# TYPE-Z Pouch Attachment



## ZDP-189

_I'd like to celebrate my 2,000th post with something memorable._

I have stumbled upon a new way of attaching bands to the pouch. It derives from the way tubular bands are attached.

All you do is:

(1) Make the end like this, with a tiny hole punched or burned through with a hot wire. Ideally the end should be rounded, but it's not critical. For thin elastic, you might double the end over before making the hole.










(2) Pull the end through the pouch hole.










(3) Pull the end of the band through the band hole and tighten up. I use a hemostat, but it can be done without.

This method has several advantages over the traditional method of tying bands on with string or elastic.


It's simple, cheap and fast to tie. There's no string or elastic needed.
It's long lasting. There's no chaffing of string on band.
It's secure. The band has to tear before it gives.
It's high performance. It's lighter by far than any other method of attachment. It will significantly improve the velocity of light projectiles.
It's accurate. Maybe not more accurate than a well tied pouch by a traditional method, but it's easy to be consistent with the length and balance.
*
FREE TO COPY. *I make no claim of owning this idea. I hope this design catches on and helps a lot of people. Spread the word. I call this the *Type-Z* attachment method.


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## NoSugarRob

how clever is that ! nice one.


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## GreyOwl

Congratulations!

Your way of attaching bands to the pouch is some interesting idea. Will try it soon

Thanks for posting and sharing.


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## NoSugarRob

do u have to use very thin bands and lube them to pull through little hole ?


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## PandaMan

This really helps! Thanks Dan (do you mind me calling you dan?)
I always wondered how they attach the tubes to the pouches on commercial slingshots.

PandaMan


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## ZDP-189

NoSugarRob said:


> This really helps! Thanks Dan (do you mind me calling you dan?)
> I always wondered how they attach the tubes to the pouches on commercial slingshots.
> 
> PandaMan


Sure, call me Dan.

They do it just like this, but with a tube.


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## ZDP-189

BTW, I forgot to mention that I have folded the band in half as I pulled the last bit through. It isn't necessary, but it helps the bands to lie flat while the pouch is still vertical (see the picture).


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## NoSugarRob

how far from end of band is little hole ? is this important to stop it tearing ?


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## ZDP-189

The tapered bands are 12mm wide at the hole. The hole is at an equal 6mm (1/4") from the sides and end. The end isn't under much tension; the sides are under more tension. It could be closer to the end, but the weight saving is negligible. Play around and see what works best for you.

It works for double strand bands too. I expect the results to be comparable to Fastbands, though maybe not quite as long lasting. Compared to Fastbands, they are a lot less wasteful as I can cut single lengths and simple tapers.


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## HOE

I did this before when I made my very first slingshot band. It's not worth the effort, I can attach better and way faster by using rubber ring with the help of a drawer or a door.
http://www.melchiormenzel.de/pictures/making/rubberhold_hole.jpg


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## ZDP-189

Well, it's been working pretty well for me for a while now.


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## A+ Slingshots

Hey Dan,
I've tried it in the past, but had some problems with tear out, so I gave up on it. Maybe I had some old rubber.







I'll try it again and let you know my findings. 
I agree that it's a great idea if it lasts!!!


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## ZDP-189

A+ Slingshots said:


> Hey Dan,
> I've tried it in the past, but had some problems with tear out, so I gave up on it. Maybe I had some old rubber.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try it again and let you know my findings.
> I agree that it's a great idea if it lasts!!!


It is possible to do this badly. Too large a hole, or too much tension compared to the strength of the bit that goes around the back would make it stretch and tear. My first set went wrong because I had the hole too small. I have been shooting these 230mm x18mm x2mm tapers and there's no wear, nor sign of the hole stretching beyond where it should be.


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## A+ Slingshots

That's good to know...making a set right now..... I thought it would especially be a great way to make the Rough-N-Ready band sets.


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## lucifer93

Good post Dan


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## NightKnight

Great idea! I look forward to seeing do durable this is over time. I wonder if this would prevent the lateral tearing I get with flatbands.


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## A+ Slingshots

OK, so here is a set made up on an oldie (but goodie) pouch. It's raining here today but I took it out and shot for quite a while with no problems!!!







Just to see I made these up with some simple "Crepe" rubber bands which can be prone to abrasion a little more IMHO. My experiments a couple years back must have indeed been with bad rubber as I made them the same today with no issues. I had a stash of old rubber back then. And because I didn't have a business there was no turn over. The summer heat can be brutal here on rubber even if kept out of the sunlight. I've since learned to store it in the house not in the shop.
I put #6 sized holes in the bands with a standard leather punch. I used hemostats and water (spit)







to ease the cinch up process on the pouch. I now think this is a viable way, especially for the "hobbyist," to make bands without a band stretcher. Simple... forceps, scissors, and hole punch/ heated nail are all that's needed.

I think as for me personally, I can tie bands as fast or faster with the special tying/ stretcher jig I designed and made for the business, but it's always nice to know and have alternate ways of doing things. This requires no tying material, and that alone is a great added bonus!!

Nice post Dan!!! Two thumbs up Mate!!!! I recommend that everyone give it a try!!!

Perry ~ A+ Slingshots


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## Rayshot

That method I used on a Dankung Bi Thor that had a bar 90 degrees to the handle as the top of the fork. I was quite new to slingshots at the time but desperately wanted to use a band on a Dankung so I used that method on the fork end of the band. It is still on the dankung but the band started tearing mid way down the length. But not at the attachment site.

To make the hole I used my hole punch. It worked.

I will have to try this more.

Thanks Dan for the info on this method. I may not have tried this again for some time, if at all.


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## Darb

Hey, will this work on neckties ? I keep forgetting how to make a half-windsor knot.


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## dragonmaster

Great idea Dan next time I'm making up band sets Ill give it a go.


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## NoSugarRob

PS.... 2,000 posts Dan.... good going that m8


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## huey224

this is a must try for me.


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## Brooklyn00003

Thanks for sharing !

I will try it tomorrow . I guess if I heat something and make a hole with it maybe it might last little longer as the ends will be heat seald or something.

Surely good for easy draw bands .I use 230mm -150mm at 8 pounds draw.


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## HOE

When the band breaks at the end of the pouch after thousands of shots, you still have to go back to the kink-and-tie method, after shortening the bands.


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## ZDP-189

I'll make up a dozen sets as free test samples if people want to see how durable mine a are. Start a list below like this:

1 joe bloggs
2 john doe
3 wotshisname


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## dragonmaster

Well I made a band set with this new attachment and using it with my rubber band test. I put this band set on my OPFS maxing out the rubber and got bout 100 shots so far with no sine of wear.


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## lucifer93

ZDP-189 said:


> I'll make up a dozen sets as free test samples if people want to see how durable mine a are. Start a list below like this:
> 
> 1 joe bloggs
> 2 john doe
> 3 wotshisname


I would like to try a set of these Dan so i'll start with me if thats OK

1 lucifer93


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## NoSugarRob

1 lucifer93
2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way


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## dgui

Ultra Neat.


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## dragonmaster

1 lucifer93
2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way

3. Dragonmaster I wont copy


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## ZDP-189

Copy away!


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## Tex-Shooter

Was doing that in 1998! It works but crawls and curls the pouch after shooting a bit! -- Tex-shooter


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## PandaMan

4.? PandaMan?


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## foreigner

dragonmaster said:


> 1 lucifer93
> 2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way
> 3. Dragonmaster I wont copy


4.? PandaMan? 
5. foreigner


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## ukslingshots

Yes please ZDP







Thank You

1 lucifer93
2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way 
3. Dragonmaster I wont copy 
4.? PandaMan? 
5. foreigner 
6. ukslingshots


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## Darb

A+ Slingshots said:


> I put #6 sized holes in the bands with a standard leather punch.


For those of us who arent leather workers, what size hole is a #6 leather punch ?

I googled it just now and couldn't find anything, but I did find a punch with six holes, the largest of which is 3/16" ... is this it ?

http://www.amazon.com/Leather-Hole-Punch-Tool-Heavy/dp/B000NK5VY2/ref=reg_hu-rd_add_1_dp_T2


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## Brooklyn00003

I would like to try if possiple .

1 lucifer93
2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way 
3. Dragonmaster I wont copy 
4.? PandaMan? 
5. foreigner 
6. ukslingshots 
7.Brooklyn00003


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## A+ Slingshots

Darb said:


> For those of us who arent leather workers, what size hole is a #6 leather punch ?


Darb, It appears to be a 3/32" hole (2.38mm) on my drill gauge.


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## Darb

Thanks, Perry. 3/16" sounded too big, but I had to ask.

I'll order the one on amazon.


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## 919h

Very interesting, I'll try that.

Xav


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## wd40

Very interesting.

Thanks for sharing.

I will be trying this when my bandset I got from Tex breaks, if it ever does.


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## zille

I tried it for a 30cm tapered thera-gold-band but it ripped after about 50 shots...maybe the hole wasn't punched cleanly...


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## redcard

1 lucifer93
2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way 
3. Dragonmaster I wont copy 
4.? PandaMan? 
5. foreigner 
6. ukslingshots 
7.Brooklyn00003 
8. redcard


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## Gib

1 lucifer93
2 NoSugarRob please. im totaly gonna copy em in every way 
3. Dragonmaster I wont copy 
4.? PandaMan? 
5. foreigner 
6. ukslingshots 
7.Brooklyn00003 
8. redcard
9. Gib

This should be neat! Great idea


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## Flatband

This "Hole in pouch" method has been around for many years. The famous "Scope Shot" slingshot from the 60's used it and I shot many shots out of their bands with good lasting qualities too. The trick to that method is a small well cut hole. A die cut hole such as a very sharp leather punch would do the trick. Some people used to burn a hole in them like they do in tubes. I never really did good with that method. You would think the band strength would be compromised with hole in it-not so when done properly. There is a drawback though, pouch curl will definitely be had when using this style attachment. Flatband


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## Deimos

So I tried it, I stretched it 50 times, put it in 2 vices, stretching 500% on the rubber overnight.
It seemed to hold up, but after 27 streches, It tore out.

I abused it, It broke, its to expect, but it surpassed my expectations


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## shot in the foot

Like Flatband said, i think it will have to be punched out, cutting is not ideal, and burning is only damaging the band, the way Dan (ZDP) cuts his bands i think would work, i would trust them, jeff


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## ZDP-189

I'm punching mine. Burning seems to work, but I don't 100% trust it.

The only proper test is lots of people shooting it as they would any other bands. I certainly wouldn't stretch it to 500% elongation and leave it overnight, stick it in the oven, dip it in acid. These are not valid tests.


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## Darb

Deimos said:


> So I tried it, I stretched it 50 times, put it in 2 vices, stretching 500% on the rubber overnight.
> It seemed to hold up, but after 27 streches, It tore out.
> 
> I abused it, It broke, its to expect, but it surpassed my expectations


Demios: what's that other attachment on the far side of the pouch ? It's hard to tell, but it looks like some sort of clip.


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## Deimos

Darb said:


> Demios: what's that other attachment on the far side of the pouch ? It's hard to tell, but it looks like some sort of clip.


Its just a piece of 17/45 tube...









Just fyi, it slips out after a night of abuse, not during tho.
I'm going to try a 1cm long piece and tie with my normal rope over it, should hold it nicely without damaging the band itself


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## ZDP-189

Deimos said:


> Its just a piece of 17/45 tube...
> 
> Just fyi, it slips out after a night of abuse, not during tho.
> I'm going to try a 1cm long piece and tie with my normal rope over it, should hold it nicely without damaging the band itself


I tried that too. The theory was the same. I used them in double bands that are folded at the pouch, but they didn't really do anything at all. You need to tie rubber tightly around them. You may as well use tape.


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## ZDP-189

Let's terminate the list there. People have had plenty of time to sign on. I've done 9 so would those 9 people above PM me an address to send it to?


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## ZDP-189

Marfi, Imre, foreigner. I have your addresses and will ship shortly. Louis, I will ship to London

NoSugarRob, Dragonmaster, PandaMan, ukslingshots, Gib, _last call_, your bands are made. PM me where to send them or I'll shoot them myself.


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## ZDP-189

I've posted to all those on the list who have sent PMs with addresses, plus Louis.


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## PandaMan

Ok thanks Dan. After trying out your old fastbands, I'm sure these will be excellent. Your one of my slingshot inspirations on this forum, so I value you products greatly. And on a different note, what size steel balls would you suggest I use with these. I use 3/8 inch steel at the moment, thinking of getting 1/2 inch. Thanks,

Conal.


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## ZDP-189

I think .375 steel weighs about 3.5g, so yes, that should be ideal.


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## PandaMan

and what about 1/2 inch? Would that be pushing it?


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## ZDP-189

At 8g+ it would rather be pushing the envelope. These bands are roughly half the power of Fastbands and for those 9g is really zippy, about perfect. So 4g (.375 steel) would be about right considering the pouch is the same weight. The .50 would feel slow. Anyway, the I'm not selling these bands, offering them in trade or even representing that they are any good. I just want to put them in several people's hands so they can see how they look and decide if they work as an alternative to tying. Personally I will continue with the elaborate tying that I use on the Fastbands, because I have a heap of experimental data and customer feedback on them and I know that they last as long as can ever be expected from flatbands.

However, some people may find the timesaving of punching vs tying to be worthwhile. That's why industry went with this method for attaching tubes and why you rarely see production slingshot pouched attached any other way.

Admittedly, the attachment is not as strong as they would be if they were tubes. Tubes form a collar and are thicker. For bands it becomes very critical that the hole is the right size (about 1.5mm for Thera-band Gold) and totally without ragged edges. The best way I have found to make the hole is with a leather punch or by a hot 1.5mm needle.


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## ZDP-189

Gib's sent too. I sent an unusual set with double punched bands.

The last hold out is ukslingshots. If he doesn't respond, I'll ship to aamj50 who's waiting in reserve.


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## NoSugarRob

cheers Dan. If they arnt very good i'm gonna abuse you sir ! oh yes


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## ukslingshots

Thank you ZDP-189


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## foreigner

Dan,
Thanks and can't wait to try this out.


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## redcard

Thanks Dan,

Will post a review when they get here.


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## ZDP-189

UKSH's final pouch is sent!


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## NaturalFork

Nice idea! I need to try it to test its longevity.


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## redcard

Got the zdp band today and put it on the fork on the right (natural lemon tree fork) on the left is a set of zdp fastbands on a chico wood fork treated with Johnsons paste wax.

both are awesome bandsets, even with the 5/8 marbles the pouch works well. I really enjoy shooting the single bandset it is a good match to this ammo. I think I got a special bandset, It smells like custard and the pouch has a star in the center.

thank you Dan. I am surprised how easy the bands pull yet are still powerful.


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## danny358

my missus will love you for this idea she absolutely hates holding the pouch and elastic while i tie it. she doesnt get any peace lol.


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## foreigner

Dan, 
Thank you for sharing and supplying me a sample of this type of pouch attachment. I was very please with the findings as I tested this out. I shot 3/8 steels and was able to get 975 shots before any wear and tear at the pouch attachments. It would still be able to shoot another 80 shots easy before breaking, but I didn't want to chance a 3/8th steely ricocheting around the room. As you can see in the photos there were no signs of tear on the band where the hole was made for the attachment. The wear occurred where there was rupture. Thanks again for sharing this. I will definitely use this attachment myself.


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## Bugar

I did one with the burn hole method didn't have punch, WELL!! only made around 100 shots and started tearing at the hole, sure worked good and looked fine, dang guess I'll try a punch next time











foreigner said:


> Dan,
> Thank you for sharing and supplying me a sample of this type of pouch attachment. I was very please with the findings as I tested this out. I shot 3/8 steels and was able to get 975 shots before any wear and tear at the pouch attachments. It would still be able to shoot another 80 shots easy before breaking, but I didn't want to chance a 3/8th steely ricocheting around the room. As you can see in the photos there were no signs of tear on the band where the hole was made for the attachment. The wear occurred where there was rupture. Thanks again for sharing this. I will definitely use this attachment myself.


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## Brooklyn00003

I have received mine. I cant wait to try.

Thanks Dan


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## lucifer93

Hogan Castings Pocket Poacher with TYPE-Z Pouch Attachment

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/4155-hogan-castings-pocket-poacher-with-type-z-pouch-attachment/


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## dragonmaster

Got mine today don't know when I'll get them on a frame we just had a ton of snow drop on us and still workin on a indoor range but I did try this setup on some 105's and it worked great. Thanks Dan your the man.


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## ukslingshots

The postie must hate me - nothing has arrived yet........


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## ZDP-189

redcard said:


> Dan, Thank you for sharing and supplying me a sample of this type of pouch attachment. I was very please with the findings as I tested this out. I shot 3/8 steels and was able to get 975 shots before any wear and tear at the pouch attachments. It would still be able to shoot another 80 shots easy before breaking, but I didn't want to chance a 3/8th steely ricocheting around the room. As you can see in the photos there were no signs of tear on the band where the hole was made for the attachment. The wear occurred where there was rupture. Thanks again for sharing this. I will definitely use this attachment myself.


Wow, that's awesome! Remember also that I made these bands out of strips of elastic that I had rejected due to flaws in the latex from when I was making a run of Fastbands.

The feedback we've seen posted shows that the attachment is potentially on a par with most other attachment methods - as long as it's done really well. If the hole does go, the bands can be trimmed and you only lose about 5mm in length.

I don't think this is the best way. I still favour tying with elastic ties for long life, but if these are not far behind, I guess it means the Type-Z can be used for certain applications like home builds, short term bands and budget slingshots.


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## aussie

Great idea. I am going to try this on my next set of bands.

Do you think it would work on double bands?


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## ZDP-189

I think they should work.


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## NoSugarRob

I got my band set on Christmas eve. Cheers Dan


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## Brooklyn00003

I just finished off my type*-z band .

It lasted 200+ shots with 9.5mm steel. Fun to shoot good for close range target.

Thanks for the bands Dan !


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## dgui

This is Ultra Neat.


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## d69p

I've been using this method, heating up a quilting needle with a lighter, and really like the low resource use. They last for around 300 shots with my thin Theraband-black strips. I don't really know what a *good* amount of shots would be, durability-wise, but I like the method's simplicity.


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## Brooklyn00003

d69p said:


> I've been using this method, heating up a quilting needle with a lighter, and really like the low resource use. They last for around 300 shots with my thin Theraband-black strips. I don't really know what a *good* amount of shots would be, durability-wise, but I like the method's simplicity.


 With thera black that is very good ! If I could get 500 from this method would be great with thera gold.


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## newconvert

ZDP-189 said:


> Hey Dan,
> I've tried it in the past, but had some problems with tear out, so I gave up on it. Maybe I had some old rubber.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll try it again and let you know my findings.
> I agree that it's a great idea if it lasts!!!


It is possible to do this badly. Too large a hole, or too much tension compared to the strength of the bit that goes around the back would make it stretch and tear. My first set went wrong because I had the hole too small. I have been shooting these 230mm x18mm x2mm tapers and there's no wear, nor sign of the hole stretching beyond where it should be.
[/quote]

i think another factor here is your hole has to be cut very cleanly, so that no tears develop as a result of imperfections, minor tears turn into big tears once stretched.


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## newconvert

d69p said:


> I've been using this method, heating up a quilting needle with a lighter, and really like the low resource use. They last for around 300 shots with my thin Theraband-black strips. I don't really know what a *good* amount of shots would be, durability-wise, but I like the method's simplicity.


perfect, i was trying to think of how to try this method without without having to buy new tools, so i just need to find the right thickness rod-needle


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## stej

Does anybody use this method? I'd like to know whether it can affect accuracy or not.


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## Charles

I use it on some of my shooters. I find it is as accurate for me, if not more so, than tying bands to the pouch. I have less of a problem with beard snatch, for one thing.

Cheers .... Charles


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## THWACK!

Darb said:


> Hey, will this work on neckties ? I keep forgetting how to make a half-windsor knot.


Double-windsor looks much neater, because it is symmetrical. : )


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## THWACK!

Charles said:


> I use it on some of my shooters. I find it is as accurate for me, if not more so, than tying bands to the pouch. I have less of a problem with beard snatch, for one thing.
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


Charles, in reference to your technique of attaching tubes to pouches, it is the same technique as Trumark uses for their RR-T (red) tubes, and after a while, the pulling of the rubber cinches it tighter and tighter on the pouch and causes pouch curl, which I and others addressed a few years ago. Are you not getting pouch curl on the tubed pouches?

Thanks,

Mike

PS - renewed membership in the IBM for the heck of it


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## THWACK!

Tex-Shooter said:


> Was doing that in 1998! It works but crawls and curls the pouch after shooting a bit! -- Tex-shooter


Agreed. Over time the band cinches tighter and tighter on the pouch - just like on the Trumark RR-T (red) tubes. I provided a solution to preventing the curl several years ago.

Regards,

Mike


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