# 100 meter or longer shooting.



## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Gentlemen and those of the fairer sex who love slingshot shooting.. This Old Codger has many questions regarding the sport; only just having taken it up again since I was a nipper. I have been watching on YouTube snipers on active service taking shots at one and a half miles distance and hitting their target. Their rifles have many adjustments which can be used to assist them, also Spotters to aid in wind direction, elevation, speed of the target and so forth.

The Sling shooter has but experience. My question is what must they take into consideration for them to hit a target at 100 yards (Meters) , or even further. As mentioned experience plays a large part in their hitting a can of Coke or some other target that they can see at that distance. I would like to hear from any long distance shooters just what they have to consider when taking seemingly impossible shots and is the Butterfly stance favored above all others.

At the ripe old age of 83 with no control over ones nerves, I am limited to shooting at about twenty paces distance. My question is but one of interest and not one that I shall ever attempt, unless facing out to sea with no ships in site. To attempt such a shot and to actually hit the water would be a feather in my cap indeed.

Respectfully

The Old Codger.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Personally mate, I'd never even try it, as light ammo loose feet per second faster than heavy ammo.

Myself 30 meters is my max, although I know 50 meters is possible, but I'm too lazy to practice at that range.

So with my heavy ammo, 100 meters I guess is also possible, but if I am too lazy to do 50 meters; what are anyones chances of getting me to even try 100 meters ?.......

Although I am near certain someone on the forum has done it; so i will follow this in anticipation.

As I am fairly sure Mr Bill Hays has shot dang near that far at a coke/soda can and knocked it down second shot from vague memory.

Although he is a league above most of us, I am sure it is not a league of just himself.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Thank you Alen.

It is good to hear from you on this bright and sunny morning is Auz. The question as you may have guessed was out of curiosity, but it would be interesting to know just what the shooter has to take into consideration.

Robert


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## ash (Apr 23, 2013)

A 100m shot is indeed a rare thing. I know it has been done, but not by many.

Elevation and wind would be the primary ballistic considerations. On the slingshot end of things you'd need the power to go the distance, of course. Both in the rubber and in the arms.

Slingshots shooting round balls have no rifling, of course, so no spin stability. There's an element of randomness in the flight that can't be overcome. Over such a long distance that would be seriously amplified, so you would never get the one-shot one-hit kind of reliability that a sniper has.


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## Btoon84 (Nov 22, 2011)

Torsten.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Here is Bill Hays shooting a pop can at 400 feet.






Cheers ..... Charles


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

amazing shooting !


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Oh heck, I think I will take up knitting, then I am likely to drop a few stiches.
Allan could you give me some idea as to the advantages of disadvantages of using bands and apposed to tubes? Also the reason for choosing one apposed to the other. I understand that tubing has a longer life when being used constantly. What would either be primarily used for?

Robert
P.s I hope that I am not worrying you to much with all of my questions. As a friend I feel that you would hold back on something I wished to know. I could ask others but as the old saying goes "When you are onto a good thing stick to it".


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

As a rule the flat bands are faster than the tubes for the same percentage of stretch.

Sure the tubes do last longer, but for myself to get exactly the same ballistics, I stretch double latex to 550%, triple theraband to 560%, and looped tubes, to 580/585%.

I do this by repeatedly practicing with a retractable sewing machine tape measure; many many times over.

Then before shooting/practicing with whatever setup I choose to practice with on a given day; using the tape measure again like around a dozen or so times before actually shooting.

I guess that is the perfectionist in me coming through, yet again/still.

BUT I have no fixed anchor point now; so my method of shooting , is definitely not for any beginner; which I was way back in 1980.

Therefore for yourself, a fixed anchor point is a must have, and something like 300% stretch is adequate to gain total confidence in your accuracy.

No where near my 550% plus.

Also I suggest for low cost glass marbles may be the way to go for ammo, into a catch box arrangement, to avoid having to walk around for ages finding roll aways.

I trust this may help you at least a little mate.

Cheers Allan


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Hello MoonGalba,

I've done quite a bit of long range shooting, 100 meters or farther... mainly just for the challenge and fun of it, not for hunting purposes.

Torsten has also done quite a lot of the long range stuff... and for the same reasons

Other than that I don't really know of anyone else doing to much of it.

It's just not a very popular challenge and distance is limited for most people as well.

My furthest soda pop can was taken at a little over 500 feet... but because the camera couldn't see me at all from that distance I opted to post the 400 foot shots instead because when in full screen you can see what's happening (a little) more than anything else you can hear what's happening... and that makes for a kind of boring video, so I don't post the distance ones anymore, although I still do some shooting from those distances.

But you asked for the technique not the explanation of who or what... so I'll just tell you... it's a combination of factors brought together by experience, muscle memory, luck and to a far lesser extent... instinct.

You see there is no true "instinctive" shooting in slingshots... or else we would all be born with the ability and just have "unlearn" bad conditioning... and that does not happen.

To get good at shooting long distance you have to practice long distance... and after a while you just develop a kind of feel for it all. Your brain is capable of amazing feats of calculation that feels almost like instinct... but in reality the ability is simply developed through practice.

Like with practically everything in life, some will develop quicker or better than others easier... but knowing the basics of shooting will help you to develop much faster than if you don't have a good foundational reference to begin with.

Lot's of words, to say something so simple as... "learn to shoot by learning the basics and then build from there"


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Oh and mate, you will NEVER recieve any better advice than from the Master Mr. Bill Hays above.

Believe me on that Sir, please.

Cheers Allan


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> As a rule the flat bands are faster than the tubes for the same percentage of stretch.
> 
> Sure the tubes do last longer, but for myself to get exactly the same ballistics, I stretch double latex to 550%, triple theraband to 560%, and looped tubes, to 580/585%.
> 
> ...


I like the idea of a retractable tape measure...great idea...might save me a bit on band life!


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Most slingshot disciplines are at 10M and 20M and field events at varying distances though I'm not sure what the max distance is in that event.Given that....that is what most people practice at those distances, shots at 100M are possible but given the miss rate one would have at that range it would quickly discourage most after a few attempts but it should not be counted out altogether try it for fun at say man sized targets "first" and it will put a smile on your face when you hit it but don't get embroiled shooting 100M only, no one anytime soon is going to group 10 in a 3" bulls eye...serious 100M shooting is best left to the rifle IMO


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Tube_Shooter with a rifle and scope, why only 100 meters ?.....

Try 1000 meters plus thank you very much, as sniper have to do.....grin.

Yea I know, boasting just a little bit there: and the rifle is far from your average type.

Starlight scopes, and the works in flash/sound suppressors etc. etc.

Along with a number 2 to assist in number crunching.

Still you'd never get myself even trying a 100 meter slingshot attempt.

Cheers Allan


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> Tube_Shooter with a rifle and scope, why only 100 meters ?.....
> 
> Try 1000 meters plus thank you very much, as sniper have to do.....grin.
> 
> ...


Haha! yes Allan I know I was using 100M because 100M was what we were talking about,I should have said 100M and beyond Lol


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## phil (Dec 6, 2012)

Man that Mr Hays can shoot I have seen loads of his vids on youtube in a word AWESOME .


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> As a rule the flat bands are faster than the tubes for the same percentage of stretch.
> 
> Sure the tubes do last longer, but for myself to get exactly the same ballistics, I stretch double latex to 550%, triple theraband to 560%, and looped tubes, to 580/585%.
> 
> ...


Allan

Thank you for the explanation but I am afraid you lost me when you started to explain the percentages of the pulls. This you will have to explain to me so that I can understand what it all means. Sorry for being so ignorant but an explanation would be a great help to me.

Robert


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Hi Robert,

Percentage of stretch discounts the relaxed ruber.

Therefore let assume in the case of your height, 9 inches of relaxed rubber, forget that and start multiplying after that.

So 18 inches is 100% and so forth, 27 = 200% 36 = 300% etc.

I trust this makes it clear, as in you have stretched the 9 inches 100% at 18 inches and so forth.

Hence at my rough estimate for your height, you would have in the old scale about a yard, or 36 inches draw from your extended arm, to your chin, or ear lobe, or there abouts.

To give you roughly a 300% draw length, for my gift slingshot when I send it to you all banded up in a few weeks, okay.

Given the generosity of this forum; I would be remiss I did not pay it forward myself, mate.

Cheers Allan


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## Gardengroove (Feb 13, 2012)

Hi Robert,

I am restricted to shoot at a maximum distance of 50 meters. So I can't give you too much info on 100 meters and more.



Bill Hays said:


> But you asked for the technique not the explanation of who or what... so I'll just tell you... it's a combination of factors brought together by experience, muscle memory, luck and to a far lesser extent... instinct.


Totally agree with that. I for myself do not stick to the 10 m standard distance. When I do a shooting session I vary my distance from 10 m to 30 m from time to time. I think it is important to not exactly know at what distance you are shooting at but rather to get the feel for how much you have to compensate in elevation. If you do this often your brain will remember that.

As for ballistics I just made a chart and graph comparison for you to get a feel. Because we are somewhere restricted to maximum speed rubber can propel a round ball in slingshot shooting, we have to compensate more when it comes to longer distances.

I compared Torsten shooting TB black in a full butterfly draw (~63") with my standard target setup with a fixed anchor at appr. 32".









I set the zero range to 10 m. You can clearly see the differences in drop at the 100 m mark caused by different factors. These are draw length, ammo weight (and as a result speed of course). You see that Torsten has to compensate in elevation

by no way as much as I had to do with my setup I use at the distances mentioned above. You can see him in his videos sometimes shooting from an elevated point. Reason being is he doesn't have to compensate as much in elevation. Of course there a other factors like windage and surrounding temperature which I spared out in this chart.

So my conclusion is that besides the things Mr. Hays mentioned with a proper setup you can decrease the influences of the surroundings. But I guess that the main factors are still experience and luck.

Cheers, Simon


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Gardengroove said:


> So my conclusion is that besides the things Mr. Hays mentioned with a proper setup you can decrease the influences of the surroundings. But I guess that the main factors are still experience and luck.
> 
> Cheers, Simon


And like with so many other things in life.... the more you practice, the luckier you seem to be!


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> Hi Robert,
> 
> Percentage of stretch discounts the relaxed ruber.
> 
> ...


I had to read that several times. So to be sure I'm doing it the same way, and maybe to be sure Robert agrees, <g>

I draw 30 inches. I currently cut bands to 6 inches active length (between the fork and the knot on the pouch.)

The amount of stretch is 30 - 6, or 24 inches.

The percentage stretch is 24/6, or 400%.

If I cut my band to 5 inches, my stretch would be 30-5= 25 inches, and my percentage stretch or elongation would be 25/5 or 500%. That would give me more efficiency with a slight reduction in band life.

If I cut my band to 7.5 inches, my stretch would be 30-7.5=22.5, and my percentage would be 22.5/7.5=300%.


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## Jacktrevally (Feb 14, 2011)

Didn't DGUI as well tried shooting a can at long range? There was a video of it where he did actually show the distance using the odometer of his pickup.


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Bill Hays said:


> Hello MoonGalba,
> 
> I've done quite a bit of long range shooting, 100 meters or farther... mainly just for the challenge and fun of it, not for hunting purposes.
> Torsten has also done quite a lot of the long range stuff... and for the same reasons
> ...


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

TimR said:


> Aussie Allan In Thailand said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Robert,
> ...


[/QUOTE]


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Jacktrevally said:


> Didn't DGUI as well tried shooting a can at long range? There was a video of it where he did actually show the distance using the odometer of his pickup.


========================================================================
Yes, Jack he did make a video which I found most interesting. I tried some 20 meter shooting early this morning but failed miserably with my first few shots. My marbles are now on their way to Mar's or as tiny satellite's revolving the earth. After a while I did manage to hit the rather large box a had standing up as a target. The grouping was not the best but at least I did manage to hit it.

Thank you my friend for your note.

Robert


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## Guest (Oct 10, 2013)

It is done. Not that hard really. I live by a river and shoot at 70 meters plus quite frequently. I'm not that good but I think I could hit a one meter target at 100 meters with a couple of dozen shots for practice.


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

OldSpookASA said:


> It is done. Not that hard really. I live by a river and shoot at 70 meters plus quite frequently. I'm not that good but I think I could hit a one meter target at 100 meters with a couple of dozen shots for practice.
> ====================================================================================================================
> Well done my friend
> 
> ...


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

TimR you calculations are correct for a 30 inch draw mate.

Robert,

Am I about correct, in estimation of your draw length ?

can you get a tape measure for me please, and measure from your hand as usually holding a slingshot, extended as you usually do; to the point you feel comfortable using as an anchor point.

Be it, your jaw bone just at the rear of your teeth, or your earlobe, or where ever.

If it much different to about a yard or 36 inches, i will be surprised, given your height.

And any slight difference, will be of minimal affect on the overall performance of so dang close to 300% stretch; it will not be any significance.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Thank you again Allan for all of the trouble you are going through to satisfy my needs and curiosity. You are kind and generous gentleman and all of your help and advice have been welcomed with open arms and a keen listing ear.

Robert


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Allan I missed sending you my hand measurements, here is my right hand which I shoot with. Across the palm 3 and a half inches. From inside base of thumb to largest finger tip 5 and a half inches . I hope this is what you want.

Robert


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Thanks Robert, but no.

It is the length from your extended arm, to your anchor point at you jaw line, I think you mentioned.

Which if it much different from 36 inches i will be surprised.

Dang pity I have reached my quota of "likes" for the day.

BUT nearly everyone , please consider your comments liked , okay.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

After reading all of your comments I have come to the conclusion, as a new member, that it is not the distance you are able to shoot with reasonable accuracy, but the distance you favorer above all with complete accuracy; using the slingshot which is an extension to the hand you hold it in.

I have learned much since reading all comments sent to me and I believe the most important is that not all slingshots shoot the same. I have a sore thumb knuckle to prove this caused by my first use of a homemade Pickle Fork. Slingshots are like any other missile firing projectile and are governed by certain rules. 1 To know your weapon and its capability when used properly . 2 To use it with the intention it was designed for. 3 It is just as powerful as a gun. In my saying this it would appear that I am trying to teach an old dog new tricks. On the contrary I am remembering all that many of you have taught me over the past few weeks. I have not been able to thank all of you, but what I have learned has been invaluable as most if not all are experts in your chosen field of the Sling Shot.

At the ripe old age of 83 this coming December, my wife asked what I would like as a present (Silly girl). Why a new sling shot, one that is simple in design and not to expensive. It is fortunate that one of the members will soon be sending me a new one also Charles will send me some Gold rubbers for me to try which I find difficult to get in Australia.

My children will be giving me money as will my wife SO THIS IS NOT A SCROUNGING LETTER AS I WANT TO BUY THE ONE OF MY CHOICE*. *All that I would like you to do is to make some suggestions for me to choose from. (One with a homing device in the steel ball so that it will hit the bulls eye no matter in which direction I let fly).

Oh heck I am rambling again aren't I? Sorry but it is at times a habit of mine just to get things off my chest. But thank you again for all of the help you have giving this Old Codger who is typing this with his left hand fore finger, his right hand thumb in his mouth trying to ease the pain of his sore thumb.

Again my deepest respect to you all.

Robert


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

Might something with a big fat pistol grip and an arm brace (like some of the Barnets) be more comfortable for you to use?


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Hey Robert you can ramble all you like here.

Lord knows I tend to occasionally.

For ammo, maybe try some slightly under 1 inch magnetic and ceramic exercise balls; meant to be palmed and rotated.

Then shoot at flattened steel cans.

If you get close enough, the magnet kicks in and you get nice loud clang.

BUT they do weigh in at 35 grams: so you do need a large enough pouch.

However anything hit with one of them from a 400% stretch plus.

Well and truly stay hit, and is not getting up anytime soon; given their sheer size and weight.

Oh the 100 meter shooting bit.

Dang sure my bands and 15 gram ammo could shoot that far; but actually hit anything; likely a house maybe if it was large one......grin.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Thank you Allan for you understanding. You are a good friend who gives sound advice.

Robert


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

ruthiexxxx said:


> Might something with a big fat pistol grip and an arm brace (like some of the Barnets) be more comfortable for you to use?


Thank you Ruthie, you are a delightful young lady. Oh you owe me a letter from my last one to you.

Robert


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

moongalba said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> > Might something with a big fat pistol grip and an arm brace (like some of the Barnets) be more comfortable for you to use?
> ...


didnm't you get the reply I sent on the 10th October amigo?


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

ruthiexxxx said:


> moongalba said:
> 
> 
> > ruthiexxxx said:
> ...


Yes I did but for some reason I thought the conversation could have gone on a little further. Mother, father and siblings. Do you work other than being a housewife. What got you interested in the sport of the slingshot. All of these may be private apart from talking about slingshots. But then the site is all about slingshots so there is little else to talk about.

It was just a thought.

Robert


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

moongalba said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> > moongalba said:
> ...


No problem amigo. I will send a long P.S. as soon as the exigencies of this lifestyle allows. I rise long before dawn for meditation and try to catch up on my correspondence afterwards...unless summoned ...so will try to get something off in the morning


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## Carbon (Nov 18, 2012)

I've always loved shooting at long distances but my small yard only allows for about 15m. Whenever I go shooting I bring my slingshot and practice at 40 yards or so. 100 meters though? Whew that's tough


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

I shall be trying 20 meters this morning for the first time. Wish me luck.

Robert


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Best of luck Sir.

You shooting then certainly must of improved then, I trust all the advice here has assisted alot ?.....

Yesterday, other things, like life came up, sorry if ya all missed me.

Cheers Allan


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Robert,

For longer distance shooting, I'd say anything over 10 meters; you need heavier shot than marbles.

Simply because lighter shot looses speed or feet per second too fast.

So maybe some, ball bearings around 12 mm would be the go; but for those you would NEED a portable catch box.

Along with getting used to or re-learning the ballistics of the heavier shot.

Steel ones of these come in at 7.6 grams, where you marbles only weigh 5.8 gram, or mine did.

My lead 12 mm shot comes just below 9 grams and shoots much better, than thew 12 mm steel.

So possibly go to larger steel ball bearings around 15 mm or 16 mm, which I have not used, which I guess may weigh in around the 10 gram mark.

As this weight would keep it's feet per second much longer than a lighter weight, okay.

Yesterday, other things, like life came up, sorry if ya all missed me.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Could not sleep at all last night Allan as I suffer from Restless Leg Syndrome. I managed to get in about 2 hours before going up to the chapel to set up for my distance shooting. I marked out the floor at 5 meters, 10 and 15 meters..You were right about the glass marbles at 15 meters. I changed over to some heavy fishing sinkers and found them much better. There were no bull's eyes but at least I hit the target. At 6.30 am the Seminary youth came in to see what all the popping noise was. I was surprised to find out that none of the boys had ever fired a slingshot, some did not even know what they were. They asked if they could try before their classes started. I gave them some basic instructions, had the rest standing behind each shooter. Talk about Caggy handed, they had not a clue, none had ever made a slingshot from the branch of a tree. I started them off at the 5 meter mark, at that distance they at least had a chance of hitting something. A had to chuckle as they tried to pull back the rubbers. Talk about grunting and groaning as they tried with all their strength till they were red in the face. Most gave up while some let go the pouch only to have the marble roll along the floor to come to rest up against the stage storage cupboards. They all laughed at they own efforts and said that it was easier to go to their lesson period.

I had to give up myself because of my over tiredness but the boys made the morning a very interesting one for me.

Robert


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Looking forward to hearing the rest of your story Ruthie. It is a pity that it is all coming in bits and pieces and not one long Autobiography. So far I have found it to be very interesting.

Robert


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

Started to shorten some of my homemade slingshots to convert them into Pickle Forks. Tried my first one and finished up with a sore thumb knuckle. Wouldn't you just know it I forgot to turn my pouch round. Thick as a brick I am at times. Still we all learn by our mistakes.

Robert


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Yes Robert, I had a previous girlfriend who suffer from that; therefore I do know a little about it, the restless legs bit.

Was I correct, or at least nearly correct, in your draw length of around 36 inches ?......

Given your height.

Therefore a relaxed length of 9 inches, would give you 300% draw at 36 inches ?.....

Cheers Allan


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Allan I have with 3/8th steel achieved 300+ feet shot.....ok it was at a six foot piece of fencing :rofl: but it got there ok

I estimated I was getting around 250 to 275 fps using tapered bands drawn 42" so it got there in just over a second


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

moongalba said:


> Looking forward to hearing the rest of your story Ruthie. It is a pity that it is all coming in bits and pieces and not one long Autobiography. So far I have found it to be very interesting.
> 
> Robert


I'll see what I can do Robert...but remember that i am no longer mistress of my time !

(aha...I know...I did an autobiographical piece for a book I was co-authoring on psychoanalytic aspects of BDSM. Maybe I could send that )


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Ahhh ruthiexxxx, B.S. ya get ya ways by other means, we all know that......HUGE GRIN.

Subtle, and discrete, but always subliminal, remember I did not come down in the last shower of rain; and you know a little bit of my back ground also.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba (Sep 2, 2013)

ruthiexxxx said:


> moongalba said:
> 
> 
> > Looking forward to hearing the rest of your story Ruthie. It is a pity that it is all coming in bits and pieces and not one long Autobiography. So far I have found it to be very interesting.
> ...


I think that may be a little to pushy in wanting to know more about you Ruthie, I have therefore decided to leave the matter alone, that is unless you volunteer any more of your life. I am interested in people, and one of my friends is a Transsexual, once a man now into the final operation so that she can then feel what she has always known herself to be. Ann, my wife, and I happen to catch a program on TV on just this subject, by the time it ended we had a much better understanding of why some people feel that they are not who they should be.

So, my dear young lady, though I am interested in your life I will leave it up to you as to how much you wish to tell me.

Again with all due respect

Robert


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

moongalba said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> > moongalba said:
> ...


I've sent you the biographical bit. Hope this will do for now. I have had several transsexual people in therapy over the years. I thought my life journey had been tough at times but I doubt I would have had the courage to make THAT journey!


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Actually Robert leaving any identification material out completely.

I have a mate, sort of here; all the time I have lived in the city I live in now, Australian totally, but of Polish ancestry.

Whom was of one type of Police Force or another back in Australia, as a career in his working life.

Who IS a transsexual, who here dresses as female.

He actually recently got his Australian Passport changed to reflect a female first name, and Polish last name; dressed as a female, but the sex box still M.

How he did that, I have no idea.

He is now living in Poland for at least 2 years before returning here, may be.

His sexuality I have no idea, nor interest in at all.

Of course in Australian he could NEVER have done this at all; given his job.

So how he lived his life; I have no idea at all.

Which just goes to PROVE that we never know half we think we know about others.

Although myself, I am totally straight, AND I have the totally female wife to prove it.

Cheers Allan


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## ruthiexxxx (Sep 15, 2012)

that cannot be an easy life !


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

It is Him (?) now though.

Cheers Allan


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