# punched a hole in a tin can



## Relivechildhood (Dec 12, 2021)

Hey Folks,

I tried my 0.7 mm simple shot black band, 18-10 mm taper, 480% elongation ,short draw. 9.5mm (3/8'' steel) ammo. Hit several times on this tin can, only 1 hole. Usually it was a big dent. distance was 47 feet. I would like to try a bigger elongation next time, maybe 560%. I feel the draw weight of 480% was OK to handle. Does tin can size matter? You see that small dent on the other side of the can, that was because it spins and jumps when hit. It was hard to get a "SOLID" hit. This can is kind of big. I have smaller tin cans. I am trying to find a hunting setup that works for me. Can penetrate both sides of tin can with 9.5 mm ammo and has a manageable draw weight.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Do you think you're really ready to hunt?
I mean, you're still asking a ton of really basic questions, and judging by the grouping on that can, and the fact you're not even penetrating one side most of the time, much less both sides, either... you really think it's time to go out "put the hurt" on some little animal or bird?


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## vince4242 (Jan 11, 2016)

I have to agree with Bill, when you're ready to hunt you will be able to look at the top green little stem on top of that tomato in the picture on the can, and put your ammo right at the tip of that stem. A centered shot and you know where it's going to go, no glancing blows. With your normal Target setup when you can hit a ping pong ball, or a 40 mm spinner 8 out of 10 times I think then it might be time to try the can test again.
Actual hunting is a lot harder than shooting a tin can. At least for me the heart starts racing you get excited and accuracy definitely goes down when there's a real animal in your sight. That's why lots of practice and being dead on when you're shooting at Target is so important.
I was so gung ho about hunting when I first started as well, I have since learned to just relax and enjoy slingshot shooting for its Zen and calming effects.

Cheers!


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

I usually shoot 18.5 oz soup cans. Nothing special about the size, just what I often have for lunch in my office. Some people like to fill the tin soup cans with water. This gives some inertia to the can and sends a fun water spout out the top when hit. Pretty impressive when you get a solid hit with heavier ammo like 7/16" steel. Many setups will give you through and through on solid hits in the center of the can. If power is your goal, getting to through and through's on these cans is a good goal. If hunting is your goal, follow all the great advice above and get through and through's on the center of the can reliably.


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## Relivechildhood (Dec 12, 2021)

vince4242 said:


> I have to agree with Bill, when you're ready to hunt you will be able to look at the top green little stem on top of that tomato in the picture on the can, and put your ammo right at the tip of that stem. A centered shot and you know where it's going to go, no glancing blows. With your normal Target setup when you can hit a ping pong ball, or a 40 mm spinner 8 out of 10 times I think then it might be time to try the can test again.
> Actual hunting is a lot harder than shooting a tin can. At least for me the heart starts racing you get excited and accuracy definitely goes down when there's a real animal in your sight. That's why lots of practice and being dead on when you're shooting at Target is so important.
> I was so gung ho about hunting when I first started as well, I have since learned to just relax and enjoy slingshot shooting for its Zen and calming effects.
> 
> Cheers!


Thank you for the input. Yeah, 80% hit rate is what I'm working on.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

vince4242 said:


> I have to agree with Bill, when you're ready to hunt you will be able to look at the top green little stem on top of that tomato in the picture on the can, and put your ammo right at the tip of that stem. A centered shot and you know where it's going to go, no glancing blows. With your normal Target setup when you can hit a ping pong ball, or a 40 mm spinner 8 out of 10 times I think then it might be time to try the can test again.
> Actual hunting is a lot harder than shooting a tin can. At least for me the heart starts racing you get excited and accuracy definitely goes down when there's a real animal in your sight. That's why lots of practice and being dead on when you're shooting at Target is so important.
> I was so gung ho about hunting when I first started as well, I have since learned to just relax and enjoy slingshot shooting for its Zen and calming effects.
> 
> Cheers!


I hunt tin cans.

Based on the OP stating "I am trying to find a hunting setup that works for me", I assumed he was asking if he's ready to hunt based on the above shots.

This needs to he in the HUNTING section as it is clearly about penetrating a can vs animal skull etc. Then I wouldn't have to read or see it as I don't follow the hunting threads.

Since it's here, I'll add my 2 cents...not even close to being ready to hunt. It wouldn't be fair to the game he was going after.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Relivechildhood said:


> What makes you think I was trying to say I am ready to hunt?...


Ummm, well, when you say these exact quoted words: " I am trying to find a hunting setup that works for me. Can penetrate both sides of tin can with 9.5 mm ammo and has a manageable draw weight. "

Look, lot's of people like to hunt... it's part of many, if not most human nature. Give it time. 
We may seem like we get a little sensitive about the hunting issue, because we ARE... 

In the past we've had to endure the critique of all types of people due to idiots on youtube and other social media places who post video and pictures of repeated shooting and injuring birds, and little animals and such... then other idiots in the comments section of those videos saying stupid stuff like "good going" "great shooting" and so forth.... When all they really did is cause eventual trouble for those people who are actually ethical in their hunting.

From the way you just posted it seems like you're thinking about becoming one of those inexperienced slingshot hunters who may post their injuries and kills... We, and that includes YOU, don't need what comes after that.
So like I said, give it some time... develop your skills more... gain strength, confidence and accuracy... 
Test yourself... shoot ping balls like Vince said, at various distances and elevations.... hit at least 80% out to around 60 feet. Make sure you can do it with enough power that your shot will cleanly and ethically kill.

Yes, I know, hunting by it's very nature... whether it be with a rifle, bow or slingshot, can and will produce injured game sometimes... but that's not the point. The point is you're doing everything in YOUR power to not do that.

Now, I'm going to assume you're an adult and will do as an adult should do... and not act as an irrational kid... although I don't know, you may be just a kid and we're expecting to much out of you... What you do is ultimately up to YOU.


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

I don't hunt these days, but I have to say I don't think your bands are heavy enough, you'll be in the 4 or 5 ftlb region there. You want to be looking at 30mm to 20mm taper or more to get up to 10 ftlbs (at the minimum you need 8 ftlbs to kill small game)
This is what I call a hole in a tin can, taken at 21 ftlbs with 65 to 40mm tapers shooting butterfly.


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## anon (Mar 12, 2021)

I also think that 9.5 mm steel is not enough for hunting, maybe except for starlings and rats, a slingshot will never be too strong for hunting, every joule of energy is worth its weight in gold when hunting, if we not only want to hurt the game that will hide Somewhere with the last of her strength and dies there, and we will not find her anymore. better let it go then


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Yes, lead is a much more effective munition than steel, but I think with strong bands 3/8" steel at 8ftlbs and above will do the job on small game.
But accuracy is the most important, all the power is no good if the shot can't be placed properly.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Biker_Bob said:


> I don't hunt these days, but I have to say I don't think your bands are heavy enough, you'll be in the 4 or 5 ftlb region there. You want to be looking at 30mm to 20mm taper or more to get up to 10 ftlbs (at the minimum you need 8 ftlbs to kill small game)
> This is what I call a hole in a tin can, taken at 21 ftlbs with 65 to 40mm tapers shooting butterfly.
> View attachment 365304


That! Is one heck of a can hit! I don’t think in this case it matters if you had through and through penetration, but for the sake of curiosity, did it break through the back at all?


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Yes it put a small split in the back. It's a steel can too, not aluminium.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Biker_Bob said:


> Yes it put a small split in the back. It's a steel can too, not aluminium.
> View attachment 365820


Knocked the living heck out of it, that’s for sure!


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## msturm (Sep 18, 2019)

Your setup will do the deed but you need to be able to headshot your prey on the first shot each time. Keep practicing. Move down to a Vienna sausage can then when you can hit that every time move to a golf ball. Once you can consistently light up a golf ball you are ready. It takes 4 foot pounds of energy to end a snowshoe hare and about that to end a grouse. About double that (8 fpe) to end a squirrel with a head shot. 

Happy and ethical hunting sir.


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

msturm said:


> Your setup will do the deed but you need to be able to headshot your prey on the first shot each time. Keep practicing. Move down to a Vienna sausage can then when you can hit that every time move to a golf ball. Once you can consistently light up a golf ball you are ready. It takes 4 foot pounds of energy to end a snowshoe hare and about that to end a grouse. About double that (8 fpe) to end a squirrel with a head shot.
> 
> Happy and ethical hunting sir.


That's interesting information, so I'm quite happy that I've always just assumed 8ftlbs is the power needed for small game - better to be over than under!
Do you know what sort of levels are needed for rats? I've seen a rat take a head shot at under 10yds with a 12ftlbs air rifle and it ran away.
Do we ever talk about momentum and impact energy? I'm thinking that at the same energy levels a heavier slower projectile will generate more shock than a faster smaller projectile, which might pass straight through.


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## msturm (Sep 18, 2019)

Biker_Bob said:


> That's interesting information, so I'm quite happy that I've always just assumed 8ftlbs is the power needed for small game - better to be over than under!
> Do you know what sort of levels are needed for rats? I've seen a rat take a head shot at under 10yds with a 12ftlbs air rifle and it ran away.
> Do we ever talk about momentum and impact energy? I'm thinking that at the same energy levels a heavier slower projectile will generate more shock than a faster smaller projectile, which might pass straight through.


I agree it is definitely better to have more power as long as your not compromising accuracy for it.

I have had pass a few shots pass through hares when I miss the head. (It happens) You end up with a hole on each side. From my 1 in to 3/4 in .76 tapers and 7/16 steel I'm getting between 10 and 12 fpe as calculated by the formula and chronograph average.

Caddy Shack's Wayne Martin did a cool penetration test on ballistic gel with different ammo sizes. It's pretty neat. I think 10 mil lead won the day as far as penetration and power for his set up. I will have to watch again. It's on YouTube.

I have never shot a rat (well I killed a muskrat with a marble once) but I would assume they are probably in the squirrel toughness category.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

msturm said:


> I agree it is definitely better to have more power as long as your not compromising accuracy for it.
> 
> I have had pass a few shots pass through hares when I miss the head. (It happens) You end up with a hole on each side. From my 1 in to 3/4 in .76 tapers and 7/16 steel I'm getting between 10 and 12 fpe as calculated by the formula and chronograph average.
> 
> ...


Man you must have to get on target mighty fast with that draw weight. Is it mostly instinctive at that point. My frame hand would be wobbling around like crazy!


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## Bubsy (11 mo ago)

I saw that Wayne Martin YouTube video a while back and if my memory serves me correctly he was surprised that the penetration of the projectile was fairly consistent, (regardless of size/material) depending on band adjustment. I'm pretty sure he changed bands to suit the ammo at some point.
I'm still a complete noob at this and I find the band thickness and taper absolutely outrageous to my mind. I'm still struggling to kill empty cans at the moment


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## skarrd (Jul 20, 2011)

we had a plague of rats last year,when they tore down the woods behind our houses and started building a subdivision,wood rats are almost as big as squirells,and just as tough,if not tougher,i was shooting them with a pump crossman-12 pumps-and my neighbor went and got a 22 rifle to shoot them with,couple still ran away


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## anon (Mar 12, 2021)

msturm said:


> I agree it is definitely better to have more power as long as your not compromising accuracy for it.
> 
> I have had pass a few shots pass through hares when I miss the head. (It happens) You end up with a hole on each side. From my 1 in to 3/4 in .76 tapers and 7/16 steel I'm getting between 10 and 12 fpe as calculated by the formula and chronograph average.
> 
> ...


 the rat has a soft body and the little steel balls go right through and the projectile energy is wasted. If we miss the head or the spine so as to immobilize it, it will run away 100% with the hole and no one knows what will happen to it, such a condition is worse than missing!
therefore, use the largest possible caliber to leave as much energy as possible in the rat's body, the optimal situation would be for the bullet to stay in the body, then it would give up all its energy


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

anon said:


> the rat has a soft body and the little steel balls go right through and the projectile energy is wasted. If we miss the head or the spine so as to immobilize it, it will run away 100% with the hole and no one knows what will happen to it, such a condition is worse than missing!
> therefore, use the largest possible caliber to leave as much energy as possible in the rat's body, the optimal situation would be for the bullet to stay in the body, then it would give up all its energy


...which points us back towards large calibre lead, slower moving but with huge momentum.
I have made some 1oz lead balls, roughly 18mm diameter - shooting at 24ftlbs I'm pretty certain a body shot would kill a rat, in fact it would probably blow it to pieces.


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## msturm (Sep 18, 2019)

Biker_Bob said:


> ...which points us back towards large calibre lead, slower moving but with huge momentum.
> I have made some 1oz lead balls, roughly 18mm diameter - shooting at 24ftlbs I'm pretty certain a body shot would kill a rat, in fact it would probably blow it to pieces.


That will certainly do it! Imagine a fork hit... OUCH!


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

Fortunately I never get fork strikes!
Well, excepting the time I tried Snipersling 0.7mm black.
TBG has always been good to me - that said, when I'm shooting at these high energy levels I wear one of those leather gloves with the metal plates in.


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