# "the butterfly" vs "cheek anchor "



## MRSLINGSHOTMAN

"the butterfly" vs "cheek anchor " .any one familiar with butterfly style shootiing? pros and cons in accuracy and power with the same draw weight ?


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## Hrawk

The longer the draw the faster the bands. Check out some of Torsten's vids. He achieves some amazing speeds with butterfly bands.


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## kobe23

My personal comment on the only advantage of cheek draw over butterfly is the reaction time during fast paced shooting, i.e. when hunting. Butterfly style do give more acceleration and power but will have to get used to shooting it fast paced or fork hits might occur.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

If you can achieve excellence with butterfly, you have the most powerful way of shooting; the loading time, larger space required and more elastic necessary though, and the differences are small.


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## Tex-Shooter

Some like Ford's and some like Toyota's. Did you notice that I did not use Chevy's any more. That is because I feel like I am paying for one with my taxes and it is not parked in my driveway as of yet!








Tex-Shooter


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## MRSLINGSHOTMAN

Tex-Shooter said:


> Some like Ford's and some like Toyota's. Did you notice that I did not use Chevy's any more. That is because I feel like I am paying for one with my taxes and it is not parked in my driveway as of yet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tex-Shooter


Dont complain my friend , its still dirt cheap compared to where i live a *Toyota Camry starts at 150,000* sgd which is 122,000 USD? beat that . if you still feel suckish go here http://www.sgcarmart.com search under new cars , and u can feel my pain . and the price does not include road tax and registration etc etc .


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## GreyOwl

Butterfly shooting may cause addiction!


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## Tex-Shooter

You may note that I did not complain about the price, but my taxes paying for something that I did not get. Why should my taxes bail out GM when I drive a ford? You see my taxes are buying a car that I am not getting a benefit from. I am a firm believer in free enterprise on a level playing field and not governments helping one company to beat another. You see that would be like a government helping another band maker to undersell me. Hmmm you know that just could be going on to, but I don’t know. -- Tex-Shooter


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## Northerner

I did a bit of a comparison this evening.

*Butterfly*
Theraband Black - 1 3/8" x 7/8" x 12 1/4" 
Draw length = 60"
Draw weight @60" = 6 lb 6 oz 
3/8" steel = 238 fps

*Face Anchor
*Theraband Gold - 3/4" x 8 1/4" straight cut
Draw length = 30" (to ear)
Draw weight @30" = 8 lb 12 oz
3/8" steel = 188 fps

Note: I previously tested Theraband Gold cut to 3/4" x 9/16" x 8 1/4". Draw weight and velocity were slightly less than the 3/4" straight cut.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## NaturalFork

Tex-Shooter said:


> You may note that I did not complain about the price, but my taxes paying for something that I did not get. Why should my taxes bail out GM when I drive a ford? You see my taxes are buying a car that I am not getting a benefit from. I am a firm believer in free enterprise on a level playing field and not governments helping one company to beat another. You see that would be like a government helping another band maker to undersell me. Hmmm you know that just could be going on to, but I don't know. -- Tex-Shooter


I am with you on this on Tex. I am in the market for a new truck.


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## Charles

Northerner said:


> I did a bit of a comparison this evening.
> 
> *Butterfly*
> Theraband Black - 1 3/8" x 7/8" x 12 1/4"
> Draw length = 60"
> Draw weight @60" = 6 lb 6 oz
> 3/8" steel = 238 fps
> 
> *Face Anchor
> *Theraband Gold - 3/4" x 8 1/4" straight cut
> Draw length = 30" (to ear)
> Draw weight @30" = 8 lb 12 oz
> 3/8" steel = 188 fps
> 
> Note: I previously tested Theraband Gold cut to 3/4" x 9/16" x 8 1/4". Draw weight and velocity were slightly less than the 3/4" straight cut.
> 
> Cheers,
> Northerner


Yes, indeed ... it stands to reason that with a greater draw length (within reason) you will get higher velocities. For one thing, your draw weight will usually be greater, so the force on the projectile will be greater. And for another thing, the force will have a longer time to work on accelerating the projectile.

My problem is accuracy. In butterfly mode I am not nearly as accurate as drawing to the face. I am one of those poor folks who aims, rather than shooting intuitively. For me, all the power in the world is of no use if I cannot hit what I am aiming at.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## ERdept

kcmetalic said:


> Some like Ford's and some like Toyota's. Did you notice that I did not use Chevy's any more. That is because I feel like I am paying for one with my taxes and it is not parked in my driveway as of yet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tex-Shooter


Dont complain my friend , its still dirt cheap compared to where i live a *Toyota Camry starts at 150,000* sgd which is 122,000 USD? beat that . if you still feel suckish go here http://www.sgcarmart.com search under new cars , and u can feel my pain . and the price does not include road tax and registration etc etc .
[/quote]

NO thread hijack, but same as in Thailand. Cars there are many, many times their price due to government tax to discourage purchase, not to make money on it really, but people still buy those cars and the roads are still congested.

Just to understand what im saying, think if buying whatever car you have now, but multiply the price by* 4*

Now back to thread, I seem to be MUCH less accurate with butterfly, but MUCH faster. Some amazing speed, but shots are wild.


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## torsten

kcmetalic said:


> "the butterfly" vs "cheek anchor " .any one familiar with butterfly style shootiing? pros and cons in accuracy and power with the same draw weight ?


I´m a pure "albatross" shooter.

Albatross- pro: much less draw weight for the same speed/power...
Albatross-con: no visible anchor point. Here is the anchor point somethin what you have to FEEL, because he is behind your head! I think this makes it a bit harder to shoot accurate.

If you draw to your cheek or corner of the mouth or to your ear makes it easier to anchor consistently at the exactly same point. Thats a big advantage when it comes to accuracy.

Tough, I like the butterfly style more. I shoot much more accurate with this style than with the fruitfly (short draw) style. I don`t know why.

AND: I LIKE THE SPEED









At least it`s all a question of personal preferences.

Regards
Torsten


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## Flatband

Hey Torsten, you are right on Bud! The speed with "Flying" is unreal, but I 'm a lot more accurate with my normal cheek anchor. How are those Czech guys that have been doing Albatross all their lives? I've heard their accuracy is very good. I'm still learning but I am starting to hit things using the " Fly"! I really like it but it does make your thumb ache after a lot of shots! Flatband


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## JoergS

Gary, if you use bigger ammo (3/4" and up), you can use TobseB's fist grip. It does not require you to twist your thumb in an awkward way.

But since you also have some excellent braced starships, you don't need butterfly for speed anyway. A starship combines draw length and cheek anchor.


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## Northerner

Hi Charles - The draw weight in my example is actually higher for the shorter 30" draw length (8.75 lbs vs 6.375 lbs). The "fly" bands only pull about 75% of the weight of the "face anchor" bands but they give about 25% more power (238 fps vs 188 fps). As you said, the power must come from the longer contact with the pouch. I sure wish I could get decent accuracy when fly shooting.

Hi Torsten - Any good tips on how you get that accuracy with fly shooting? I have watched the Geco vidos a few times but I'm still crappy at fly.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GekoGR

Cheers,
Northerner


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## torsten

Flatband said:


> Hey Torsten, you are right on Bud! The speed with "Flying" is unreal, but I 'm a lot more accurate with my normal cheek anchor. How are those Czech guys that have been doing Albatross all their lives? I've heard their accuracy is very good. I'm still learning but I am starting to hit things using the " Fly"! I really like it but it does make your thumb ache after a lot of shots! Flatband


These Czech guys are really very accurate. But I think not better than other top shooters with fruitfly style. And I think it`s also a question of what style or way you shoot most of your slingshot carreer.

Using the fist grip has disadvantages: the larger ammo you need for this grip is killing the speed. If you will achieve the same speed with this larger ammo, you have to use much stronger bands. And this kills accuracy (ok, not so for tobse







)

@ Northerner

I`m not THAT good shooter as you may think when you see some youtube vids. Indeed, I`m very inconsistent, believe me! Sometimes I have a few minutes of some good shooting







I`m happy to be able to increase the amount of this minutes the last year a bit.
But seriously, the only tip I have is the same like Smitty: practice, practice and more practice!!

Regards
Torsten


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## Charles

Northerner said:


> Hi Charles - The draw weight in my example is actually higher for the shorter 30" draw length (8.75 lbs vs 6.375 lbs). The "fly" bands only pull about 75% of the weight of the "face anchor" bands but they give about 25% more power (238 fps vs 188 fps). As you said, the power must come from the longer contact with the pouch. I sure wish I could get decent accuracy when fly shooting.
> 
> Hi Torsten - Any good tips on how you get that accuracy with fly shooting? I have watched the Geco vidos a few times but I'm still crappy at fly.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/user/GekoGR
> 
> Cheers,
> Northerner


Right ... I was assuming the same band length for both styles.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## wildwilly

I agree with you Tex-Shooter. I only drive Fords Myself Mainly because they build Quality Vehicles That Last. I think that the motor vehicle bailouts was a big waste of money. The reason they were in the position they were in was because they built crappy vehicles that nobody wanted to own. now they got their money from our tax dollars and they are still building the same crappy cars and trucks. I currently drive a Ford F150 crew-cab thaat is roomy enough for my entire family and as a pluss has a bed to hual stuff in if needed. The only thing i wish I had done was to get one that was 4 wheel drive but i may convert it over one day if I don't decide to buy one that is already.


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## Tobse

torsten said:


> I`m not THAT good shooter as you may think when you see some youtube vids. Indeed, I`m very inconsistent, believe me! Sometimes I have a few minutes of some good shooting
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I`m happy to be able to increase the amount of this minutes the last year a bit.
> But seriously, the only tip I have is the same like Smitty: practice, practice and more practice!!
> 
> Regards
> Torsten


hey Torsten stapel mal nicht so tief









i meet torsten 2 Weeks ago, and i saw his bad minutes! torsten shoot from 20m on a 5cm Target! 
and when he shoots 5 cm besides, he thinks it's bad









ok the Fistgrip is a not a grip for every body but i like it. and right, only for big ammo! 
a friend demolished my fork when hi test the Fistgrip!









Regards 
Tobse


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## Melchior

Hey Torsten, on the last Geman tournament you were beter than Europe's vice champion, and only a few points under Europe's champion...


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## Charles

O.K. all you butterfly afficianados .... Have a look at my avatar. Yep, that really is me with all that beard hanging down. I have tried a few experiments with butterfly mode, but I have a problem. When I move my head over to try to sight along the bands, my beard hangs over the bands, so when I shoot there is noticeable (to me at least!) beard snatch. Anybody else have this problem?

Cheers ..... Charles


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## dgui

Charles said:


> O.K. all you butterfly afficianados .... Have a look at my avatar. Yep, that really is me with all that beard hanging down. I have tried a few experiments with butterfly mode, but I have a problem. When I move my head over to try to sight along the bands, my beard hangs over the bands, so when I shoot there is noticeable (to me at least!) beard snatch. Anybody else have this problem?
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


Your definitely Gorgeous with the Beard so I would say instread of getting it Snatched why not wax it and braid it like the Pirate Captain John Sparrow. It just might also be a Good Look too. Or you could shoot with your arms way above your head. I will try it and see what we can come up with but if I shoot myself I will not post the video. Now there.

Oh Yea, and that is me in the Picture.


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## Charles

dgui said:


> O.K. all you butterfly afficianados .... Have a look at my avatar. Yep, that really is me with all that beard hanging down. I have tried a few experiments with butterfly mode, but I have a problem. When I move my head over to try to sight along the bands, my beard hangs over the bands, so when I shoot there is noticeable (to me at least!) beard snatch. Anybody else have this problem?
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


Your definitely Gorgeous with the Beard so I would say instread of getting it Snatched why not wax it and braid it like the Pirate Captain John Sparrow. It just might also be a Good Look too. Or you could shoot with your arms way above your head. I will try it and see what we can come up with but if I shoot myself I will not post the video. Now there.

Oh Yea, and that is me in the Picture.
[/quote]

You sly dog, you .....!

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Norwegian Wood

I like both styles, and I think my accurasy is even in the two different styles. Thats because I use the same anchorpoint, when I draw behind my ear, or do the full stretch I allways

let the bands barely touch my cheekbone. The downside of butterfly shooting is shorter bandlife and sometimes I get an ache in my thumbjoint.


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## srs45

Torsten sold me on butterfly, to me the first time I tried it it felt super natural and it feels a very elegant way to shoot.

That said with short bands my anchor point is a few inches behind the back of my head, it just felt right with the amount of power and speed it was producing.... I did have to learn quickly how to secure my elastic to my fork better though


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## Bob Fionda

torsten said:


> "the butterfly" vs "cheek anchor " .any one familiar with butterfly style shootiing? pros and cons in accuracy and power with the same draw weight ?


I´m a pure "albatross" shooter.

Albatross- pro: much less draw weight for the same speed/power...
Albatross-con: no visible anchor point. Here is the anchor point somethin what you have to FEEL, because he is behind your head! I think this makes it a bit harder to shoot accurate.

If you draw to your cheek or corner of the mouth or to your ear makes it easier to anchor consistently at the exactly same point. Thats a big advantage when it comes to accuracy.

Tough, I like the butterfly style more. I shoot much more accurate with this style than with the fruitfly (short draw) style. I don`t know why.

AND: I LIKE THE SPEED









At least it`s all a question of personal preferences.

Regards
Torsten
[/quote]

I totally agree with you. That's the main point: to feel the anchor point beside yourself. To be or not to be...this is the question. Cheers. Bob


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## danielh

i was doing the semi butterfly thing but tonight i switched to my old lonbow trad anchor/shooting style. I shot trad for over 10 years and i must say, it feels good and "right" when i show like a longbow. Im a tall guy, 6ft4 so im pulling to 32 inches anyways, so i guess its all good for me.

Main thing is do what feels right


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## archerben15

Butterfly makes the selected ammo go faster but the cheek anchor allows for more acuracy and precision. as an archer i prefer the cheek anchor because it's more familiar, and it allows my movements to be much more controlled when i am hunting something, so as not to scare it off.


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## Northerner

I am much more consistent with a cheek anchor but some guys are extremely accurate with butterfly. Geko, Torsten, and dgui are the first names that come to mind.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GekoGR

http://www.youtube.com/user/1611torsten?blend=8&ob=5

http://www.youtube.com/user/pfshooter

Cheers,
Northerner


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## smooth62

i need help with aimming fly style please help


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## dgui

smooth62 said:


> i need help with aimming fly style please help


If you are referring to shooting on the Fly, Wing Shooting, there is no time ti aim. You simply point to the flying target and when you feel that the pouch is in line with the target you must let go right at that moment and not hesitate. The pouch is everything, the slingshot or the fork does not make you hit the target it is how and the timing of releasing the pouch. Also when you are shooting you only look at the target and you do not even see the forks.


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## Ordie69

torsten said:


> ... the fruitfly (short draw) style...


That is hilarious. Never heard that before lol


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## smooth62

no butterfly sorry


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## Northerner

smooth62 said:


> i need help with aimming fly style please help


http://www.youtube.com/user/1611torsten?blend=8&ob=5#p/u/6/DyzYDip9JTM


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## keef

I never shot Butterfly before I saw Torsten's vids a few weeks ago............ I am sold.

I have found it to be a really 'meditative' form of shooting, and as the shooting session progresses, I think i go into a bit of a trance of procedure.

I focus only on the target and I have started to get some pleasing results during my regular daily sessions.. Although I am not even approaching"Good"!!!

I do find myself making daily bandsets as I am shooting around 300 shots per day...

I keep myself in check with a wing shooting session with a normal set in the evening though..LOL

Keith


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## mckee

im to afraid to shoot butterfly style


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