# General Question about band speed



## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Hi everyone, appreciate this question has probably asked before but I am new to this and cannot find an exact answer from a search. Basically I notice alot of comments about single Theraband gold bands being able to acheive ammo speeds of over 200 FPS when used with typical ammo such as 9.5mm steel or 8mm lead. I understand that results that are reported over 250FPS are based on double bands but when I tested my speed using a Chrony using this ammo with single bands I get around 160-180FPS with my 30'' draw.

My question is , why do my results seem lower when it appears that with single bands about 20mm wide and 240mm long speeds of over 200FPS should be possible given my draw length - am I missing some thing??

Thanks for any and all comments. Cheers.


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## Crac (Mar 3, 2013)

Because it's also tied to the strain.

The best power comes from the 'right' balance of force and stretch.

Shorten the free length to increase force and speed?

If your using 240mm as the installed free length 'shorten' it to 142mm between fork and pouch attachments.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

There are a number of possibilities.

1. You may be shooting in low temperatures. Given that you are in OZ, that does not seem too likely. But if you are shooting in an airconditioned environment, the low temps may be slowing you down.

2. You are shooting straight cut bands. You will get higher velocities with even slightly tapered bands.

3. Your draw length is pretty short ... lengthening your draw length by just a little will give you higher velocities.

4. Your bands may be a bit too long for your draw length. Try shortening your bands so that you get a near maximum stretch on them.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

That draw seems pretty short, maybe look at changing your technique a bit to get more draw length.


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

Sound about right at that draw length.. longer bands will give you more speed... single layer tb gold tapered 25mm at forks down to about 10mm at the pouch at 9" tied will get youaround 300 fps at a longer draw....


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Yep. TBG has an elongation factor of 500 %. Your bands are way long for your draw. Shorten by 60 mm or so.


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Many thanks for the comments thus far guys - as for draw I am a Trad archer so I anchour at the corner of my mouth. I am tallish at 6'2'' but to get a longer draw do I need to anchour at say my ear?? Have seen the 'buterfly' draw but based on years of archery I feel happier to get a solid anchour point such as corner of mouth or ear.

Will try shortening the bands a bit - not really set up to taper as the bands are parrallel cut. Have some additional bands coming which are tapered.

Thanks again.


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

I am a trad archer as well shooting a slingshot is completely different, watch some of torsten's videos if you want to see the accuracy potential of not having an archery mindset.


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks , have seen this guy - truley amazing but as I say not sure if I want to adopt the 'extended' floating anchour approach just yet. For me there appears to be a number of similarities with trad archery based on a repetative action, needing a consistent draw and anchour - may be thats just me?

Any way will try and increase my draw length as without question that will give a longer power stroke which will in turn increase my velocity.

Thanks again.


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

No probs, let us know how it goes.


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## DaveSteve (May 16, 2012)

If you want to shoot faster you need to shorten your bands.

Check out Joerg's TBG calculator.

http://www.slingshotchannel.com/band_calc.html


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks again guys, yes it would appear my bands are way too long - will try shortening and see how the numbers work out.

Cheers and all the best.


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## DaveSteve (May 16, 2012)

August West said:


> No probs, let us know how it goes.


Yes, keep us updated. Good luck.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

One way to get a longer draw without changing your anchor is to use extended forks. TB Gold is normally stretched to 500%, though it can go to roughly 650% if you want raw speed. The bands you are using should easily clock 200 fps with a 500% stretch. Stretch them to 600%+ and you should be able to get 250 with 3/8 steel. Double layers don't get you more speed, unless the single layer is overloaded.


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks for the comments. Can I ask do most of you guys use the 'butterfly' technique and if not where do you anchour to acheive the optimal elastic extention?

Cheers, Phill


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

I do not generally shoot full butterfly, as I have not perfected accuracy with that draw. I usually draw to where my hand is even with my shoulder. Given the mechanics of the hand and arm, strength drops off considerably beyond that point, as you have to begin to "unbend" your elbow. But different strokes for different folks ...

Cheers ..... Charles


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

Charles said:


> I do not generally shoot full butterfly, as I have not perfected accuracy with that draw. I usually draw to where my hand is even with my shoulder. Given the mechanics of the hand and arm, strength drops off considerably beyond that point, as you have to begin to "unbend" your elbow. But different strokes for different folks ...
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


+1


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## DaveSteve (May 16, 2012)

Charles said:


> I usually draw to where my hand is even with my shoulder.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


I do the same thing.


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

Outback said:


> Thanks for the comments. Can I ask do most of you guys use the 'butterfly' technique and if not where do you anchour to acheive the optimal elastic extention?
> 
> Cheers, Phill


My general Target shooting draw is about 43" these days, a full "butterfly" draw about 63" max..so cutting your bands accordingly to draw length & considering amo weight in regards to thickness or layers on bands set is the key... I like the behind head sort of anchor because I get good sight down the bands, and usually shoot about 280fps with .33 with a comfy easy draw...


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks guys, very informative comments - will work on improving my draw length and advise as to how I go.

Cheers, Phill


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok guys, a quick up-date thus far. Now getting around 200FPS with my new anchour at my ear - tried drawing back closer to shoulder and got 225FPS so if I can work back to my shoulder would imagine 250FPS is on the way!!

To confirm all shooting performed using 8.5mm lead and single TBG bands at 21mm tapered slightly to pouch.

Cheers, Phill


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## DaveSteve (May 16, 2012)

Great news!

How long are your bands now from tie to tie?


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

How was your accuracy with the longer draw?


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

Good results... in time you will find that anchor will feel normal..and that's a good speed for general Target and can killing!


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Ok, bands are now about 210mm from tie to tie - may look at reducing further but probably just going to focus on drawing out my draw a bit more to get additional speed.

To be honest not shot that much with the extended draw but not as accurate as my more normal anchour point - need to work on that a bit more.

If I can acheive 200-225FPS with good accuracy I will be happy - not really chasing 250FPS if I can't maintain the accuracy.

Cheers, Phill


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

Cool beans, glad it is working out for you, cut yourself some tapers and really watch out.


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks AW, at this stage I am just purchasing additional band sets when I buy the cattie, have also purchased a couple of sets off Ebay as I don't feel confident just yet to try making my own however who know's what the future may bring???

Cheers, Phill


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Hi Outback,

I shot traditional stickbows for many years so I prefer a solid anchor point. I spent lots of time trying to master the full butterfly and partial butterfly but didn't get the accuracy that I wanted. Some guys do very well with the longer draw lengths but you need to experiment to figure out what works for you.

My current form consists of anchor points on my ear (32"-33" draw). I hold sideways (gangsta style). For 10m I anchor my thumb knuckle at the top of the little ear flap. For 18m I anchor right on the flap. For longer distances I will move down to the ear lobe. This is all with a 3" outside fork width and 190-195 fps with 3/8" steel. When I use a 4 1/2" frame width I anchor on my ear lobe for 10 metres. For longer distaces I use holdover.

I still haven't given up on butterfly. Once the snow leaves I plan to try it again. It's not something that I like to use indoors.

Cheers,

Northerner


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## Outback (Apr 8, 2013)

Thanks Northerner, the 'butterfly' thing just does not feel right for me but as you also say many do very well with it. I will continue to creep back towards my shoulder and get towards/around 225FPS uisng the lead or 3/8 steel - if I can't get the accuracy I want then I will go back to my ear as a positive anchour and live with the drop in speed.

Cheers Phill


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## halbart (Jan 23, 2013)

Just a thought about the comparison between slingshots and archery. Look at Japanese and other styles of archery where no 'solid' anchor is used. It's all about muscle memory in these styles. Hal


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