# Bands breaking



## Greensl411 (Dec 15, 2020)

Question from a new shooter-

I'm new to slingshots and new to the forum. I've been shooting my new oculus for a few days and love it. I'm hooked! I'm guessing that I've shot about 200-300 shots total. I've already gone thru 2 premade band sets of simple shot black. At $5 a piece, this is going to get expensive quickly. Is this normal, am I doing something wrong, or did I get a bad batch of bands? 99% of my shots have made it in my catch box.

Does anyone have tips on how to make my bands last longer? I cut my first bands to 5x stretch to draw length w some extra for tying on to the frame. Then I cut my second bands even longer, hoping that they would last longer. I am shooting the right weight shot for the bands. 3/8 for the first bands, and .177 bbs for the second. I even sanded down the seam/edges on the slingshot. I was thinking that maybe the edges down the middle of the slingshot from manufacturing/moldIng might be cutting the bands. Anyway... 100 shots seems like a pretty short life for bands. They are tearing at the pouch.

Let me know if anyone has any ideas, or can point me to any useful threads on the forum. Thanks!


----------



## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

Quick answer is we need more info on the "store bought" bands. Not where you bought them, but what size, thickness, straight, taper, ammo size / type, and any other info you can provide. Are they breaking at the pouch, fork tip, in the middle? Lots of variables to band life.

A common problem with band short life and breaking at the pouch (most common failure) is related to how the band is tied. Most band makers stretch the band in a jig and then tie the band fold using any number of strings or other material. If the band is tied too close to the pouch while the band is being stretched, the tie stays under strain even when the bands are not pulled. Could be that your bands are pre-stressed from the tie method. This is one reason that making your own band sets gives you the ability to custom cut and control how the bands are attached. When you tie a band to a pouch and the band is stretched in a jig, There should be a 1/8" to 1/4" gap between the tie and the pouch. So when not under tension, there is little to no tension in the tie.

Hope that makes sense.


----------



## Greensl411 (Dec 15, 2020)

Thanks. I've edited the original post including more info. They are the simple shot branded bandsets, and I used the matching ammo that was printed on the bandset packaging.

I know that this is probably a silly question with a ton of variables, but what is a ballpark estimate of the life that I should expect out of premade SS black bandset?


----------



## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

You didn't state the size of the bands that you are shooting. I'll guess that they are 0.7mm Simple Shot Black and probably 3/4" wide and straight. This is a decent band, but not the best performer. I'll go out on a limb here and say that you are probably over stretching these bands to get the performance level that you feel you should see. This cut is a good reliable one to sell, but a bit lethargic on speed with 3/8" ammo. Possibly the opposite on the .177 and you are over powering them, which can cause short life as well. BB shooting is very light ammo and needs light bands.

Recommendation is to do your research on making your own bands. Invest in a cutting mat, roller cutter, and a good straight edge. Make your own tying jig, and jump in. If you don't already have these tools, it will only be about a $30 investment. Then you can buy a 2 meter roll of latex for $12 to $15 and make about 20 or more band sets from that. Haven't done the math, but for every 8.5 inches of latex on the roll, I get 3 band sets. (depends on your draw length)

Welcome to the hobby!


----------



## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

I for one would hate to give a ballpark number for flats. For TUBES I am at about 1800-2000 shots for 2040s. My FLATS at about half of that.
Like URBAN said regarding breaks at the pouch. If you haven't yet, contact SimpleShot for support and feedback. They are a major supporter of the sport and aim to please!

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


----------



## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

I am thinking that the pouches are not pre tied? When I used to tie my pouches with scraps from the band material, I often got the rubber to tight and it would cut through the bands quickly. Solved that problem by going to string. It has to be tight enough to not slip but not so tight that it cuts into the bands. BBs now...If your bands are to strong for the weight, the excess energy makes the pouch fly out front and sorta whip like well... a tassel on a whip. Talk to SS, or PP, they know their stuff and treat the customer with respect. I would guess that 7 or 8 hundred shots on a set of bands isn't to much to expect.


----------



## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

Breaking at the pouch is normal and you may only get a few hundred shots, especially at 500% because of the way their bands are factory tied, but you can cut and retie them at least one more time after they have broken the first time. Tie them like PF stated above and you'll see the difference. From what I've seen, the premade simpleshot bands are tied a bit tight and most bands break at the pouch anyway. These are tapered a bit also. Try cutting them at 7.5" to start and see if you're ok with that speed, you can always shorten them if you want, but the shorter you go, the faster they wear out.


----------



## Harry Knuckles (Sep 28, 2020)

I ran into a similar issue when I first started out. The short answer was I had way too much band for the ammo I was shooting. If your bands don't have the proper resistance (mass of ammo being shot) it's like you're dry-firing your slingshot.

I don't cut to the full 500% for target shooting. I think most people stay under 500% unless they are hunting or just don't mind their bands not lasting as long.

ATO talks about maxing out bands in this video.


----------



## vince4242 (Jan 11, 2016)

Welcome to the sport and the addiction! I used to shoot .7 simple shot black and would get around 2 to 400 shots on a set of band, with an aggressive taper. I have since switch to tubes and easily get 1200 to 1500 shots on a set of tubes. For 3/8 Steel I would recommend 1842 tubes if you want to try that direction. I would also make the suggestion of moving to 8 mm Steel, lighter very accurate and will definitely help with accuracy while you get everything figured out. 8 mm steel will also work with 1842 tubes.

So much variations with bands and tubes both. Go to the bands and Tube section and just start reading around I honestly started with bands and enjoyed them cutting my own and tieing pouches but when I switched tubes it changed everything I became much more accurate and for me I love being able to shoot 1500 rounds on a single set of tubes.

Cheers


----------



## Greensl411 (Dec 15, 2020)

This community is awesome. Thanks for all of the feedback. I really need to figure out how to get some bands that will last.

Thank you so much for the feedback! This community is special!

This is one of the band sets that broke in the photo. I cut it to 7.5". I have a 31.5" short draw length. I shot 3/8 steel with it.

The other set that is Not pictured and is tearing is .4mm black latex 8mmx12mmx270mm cut to 8.5". Shooting both .177bbs and 20gr airsoft ammo.

Both problems near the pouch.

I really enjoyed shooting both. They are such a difference though.

Any feedback is welcome.


----------



## vince4242 (Jan 11, 2016)

We are all glad to share our accumulated knowledge to get a new Enthusiast going. You will hear a lot of different advice and you just have to sift through and try things and see what works best for you.

One suggestion that can really help you get the feel of the slingshot and a aiming and accuracy is to put the BBs away for now, and shoot ¼" steel while you're still getting your Anchor Point, your release and all the fine tuning figured out. You can use the same bands as a BB bands but it will allow you to feel your ammo much better and have a much more consistent and reliable release while you're learning. You can buy a pack of 250 ¼" steel for under $5 at Walmart. BBs are finicky and take a lot of practice to really shoot well. You will have a lot more fun and success with ¼" steel right off the bat.

I shoot ¼" steel more than anything else and 8 mm Steel second to the ¼". I have found that the ¼" does everything 3/8" will do, but it makes it easier to learn and get really accurate then starting off with the heavier ammo. and heavy bands.

There's my two cents and knowledge from the last nine months of shooting. Enjoy and keep us updated on how your progress is coming along.

Cheers


----------



## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

Not to criticize SS, but that is definitely the tie problem PF mentioned. I opened the image in a new tab to zoom closer and you can see on the unbroken one that it is chocking the pouch. If you turn and tweak, one side gets a bit more stress than the other and goes first.


----------



## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

I agree with flipgun, that does look real tight. First, I would let SimpleShot know that you are having problems. I don't know who is making the bands for Nathan to sell, but surely it isn't Nathan himself. This is a quality control problem that he might be able to address. He may send you a replacement.

Next, Look into making your own bands. You will get a lot more satisfaction and save a few dollars over buying bands. There are a few people here that are more than happy to coach you through it if you feel you need help.

You said that you are shooting a frame with the Oculus band attachment. Did you leave some extra length? Very possible to retie the bands to the pouch if you have some extra length to work with.


----------



## Greensl411 (Dec 15, 2020)

Thanks for all of the valuable input. I have so much to learn. No clue how to tie bands/tubes, what to tie them with, or where to get the supplies. Haha. There is a first time for everything. Thanks for all of the tips.


----------



## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

There is a ton of information on the internet and YouTube. A lot of it is a bit dated so be mindful that there may be some material and method variations. Lots of personal preference too. You just need to watch and ask questions. It is not hard, just takes a little practice.


----------



## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

Greensl411 said:


> Thanks for all of the valuable input. I have so much to learn. No clue how to tie bands/tubes, what to tie them with, or where to get the supplies. Haha. There is a first time for everything. Thanks for all of the tips.


If you are true to The Slingshot Way all answers will come to you Grasshopper. :alky:


----------



## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

You are doing fine. These puzzles are there to solve. Kind of fun though! Remember..."A problem once defined is it's own solution"...Sling on grasshopper!


----------



## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

I cut my own bands and pouches for over a decade. Like you read above your bands will last longer if not allowed to snap. By using a heavier ball you will lengthen life. I always have tied my bands as tight as possible and would still do the same today. I have always drawn to full draw too and have never done otherwise.

Another common cause of failure is occasionally trapping/pinching the band between the pouch and the frame. This can be a full-on fork hit or even occasionally grazing of the band. Even slight, unseen damage to the band will cause early failure. A smooth release with a pouch that is not bent and therefore will not whip out of line will decrease the chance of damage.

Those are some mighty expensive bands you're shooting.

If you are using your bands to their full potential they will not last like tubes no matter what you do. But, there are real advantages to bands over tubes that, to me compensate for the shorter life.


----------



## Greensl411 (Dec 15, 2020)

Thanks to everyone! Winnie, those seems like good tips. I've been reading about tying bands. I just bought some Walmart advantage bands and some rainbow looms to tie with and some walmart 117b bands.

Where do you get your bands, pouches, and tying material? what do you tie with? Etc. any advice is appreciated. I'm trying to figure out how to have a cost effective new hobby!

I bought a handful of 3/8 shot and simple shot premade bandsets At the beginning hoping to get a trouble free start, so I could get the hang of it. Then I was hoping to figure out the rest. They are breaking earlier than I anticipated. Not sure wether it is user error, or faulty bandsets.

Can everyone please share where you source bands/tubes, ammo, tying material, and any other shopping tips. etc. I'm overwhelmed w the choices. If you were going to tell a friend exactly what to buy to shoot for their first 6 months, what would it be?


----------



## Girdles (Oct 5, 2020)

I'm new at this as well, it's a great stress release tool.
I purchased a selection of GZK bands in various thickness and colours free post from China and freebies like pouches, band samples thrown in.
The GZK bands come in 4 colours and so many thicknesses????
I like the White .54 for 10m, easy to draw.
The Black and Green GZK are quick and snappy at .66 tougher to draw.
Orange is like silk.


----------



## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Don't make it too complicated.

I have never used a band tying jig. I've always just stuck the band through the hole and tied it on. If you are unfamiliar with knots look up clove hitch or, better still, a constrictor knot. Either will work fine.

For rubber I've used TBG (Theraband Gold) which is the thickest of the Theraband brand for 90% of my bands. I rarely shoot lighter than 5/16 steel and at those times I will go to thinner Theraband stock. [Note: I have always bought TBG in 18ft lengths for the simple reason that having so much material you feel more free to experiment. Also, when cutting I don't worry about "right angles". By this I mean if I want a set of tapered bands that are 5/8 x 3/8 I'll measure 5/8 from the corner of the end of the sheet and mark it. From that mark I will measure 3/8 and mark it. Now rotate the sheet and measure off 3/8 and then 5/8. Now, using a steel or steel edged ruler, connect the dots and cut with a rotary cutter on a heavy plastic mat. Each of the two bands will have a right angle and not be therefore purely symmetrical. No problem.]

For pouches I cut and punch (a rotary punch gives you more options) a piece of leather. I generally use elk hide because it is both soft and strong though I have used cowhide, pig and kangaroo too.

I tie the bands to the pouch with a waxed thread from Tandy Leather #11207-02. This comes in 25yd lengths and works better than the waxed thread they sell in bulk. I use fingers and teeth to start (on occasion if someone is around to pull that's easier yet). After you get it started and lined up tighten it pretty much as tight as you can. Pull the band taught and tighten again.

That's about it. Cut some thin strips off your latex stock to use for tying (lashing) the band to the fork.

From this point "the world is your oyster". Anything that looks like a fork is fair game. Pretty, ugly, natural, board-cut, an old pickle fork, symmetrical, asymmetrical, an old chunk of something you found along the road, cow horn, deer antler, boiled leather, ivory, steel, plastic an old tool etc etc. I've done them all and more. With time you will have a ton of fun and will learn a lot along the way. One of the things you will learn, contrary to all of the talk on the forum about "this slingshot shoots better than that one" is that it's the shooter and not the slingshot. In my opinion a rough cut asymmetrical natural shoots just as well as a beautiful $150.00 work of art.

Another nice thing is that when you are experimenting like this you end up making a lot of different slingshots - and you just don't need a lot of slingshots - so you can start giving them away which is one of the most fun parts of the sport. Christmas Eve I drove around until I found a homeless guy who was carrying a backpack and looked fairly self contained. I gave him a leather pouch with a couple of hundred 5/16 balls and a micarta folding "Altoids tin" slingshot with an explanation of how tasty pigeon breast is. Blessing others is so much more fun than building a slingshot collection.

Like I said at the beginning, don't make it complicated. Have fun!


----------



## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Now, having so said, for the last 8 months I've been buying Chinese bands in various sizes and thicknesses for cheap. 10-15 band sets for $12-15 is pretty hard to beat. Don't be put off by the narrow pouches if you are shooting larger 7/16 balls. Every Chinese band set I buy I modify the pouch by taking a 5/16 ball, snug it up tight in the pouch and pass a flame around the pouch and ball. Not much. Just enough to leave a permanently shaped cup form in the pouch that helps retain the ball while shooting.

The Chinese bands pretty consistently last longer than my TBG bands. The rubber seems to be of higher quality and the cuts are flawless. I suspect it's because there are so many shooters there.

Still cheap enough to give away.


----------



## Greensl411 (Dec 15, 2020)

Has anyone tried the premade Precise Bandsets from pocket predator? I’m trying to figure out if they are a better solution than cutting my own.


----------

