# Shooting technique/My progress



## skropi

Hello there fellow slingshooters. As a new shooter, I have many questions regarding technique, so I plan to keep this thread as a kind of diary to record my progress and ask questions.
Right now I am shooting 2cm straight cut thb gold, 27cm active for a 90cm draw. Its very light, and I did that on purpose to allow me to learn correct technique.
I am practicing for about a week, and everyday I try something new, so I am a bit confused. I am going for fixed anchor point, because I think it is easier to learn, and I had some progress with it. BUT!!! A few minutes ago I tried a floating anchor point, barely touching my ear lobe with the upper side of my thumb, and oh boy did it work! Much more consistent shots and a bit more power! 
Now on to my questions. Btw I hold the slingshot sideways, using a pinch grip, and my set up is ttf.
1. Should I twist the pouch? Going for the so called speed bump? I noticed that with a straight pouch and the floating anchor, I more consistent, less flyers etc
2. Fixed vs floating anchor point. By floating I mean semi-floating, as my thumb lightly touches my ear lobe for refference. What would be the best to adhere now in my first steps?
3. Am I right going for this light band set up? I am shooting 9.5mm steel and the occasional 16mm marble btw, from about 5-7 meters away.
4. I hold the sling with my left arm, and I am dominant right eye. Problem is that when aiming with both eyes open, I get double vision, I cant focus correctly, so I resort to closing my left eye. Any way to solve this? I would love to be able to aim with both eyes open.


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## SkullT

I would say do what comes natural and don't be afraid to experiment. I am right eye dominant and hold my slingshot in my right hand. I also shoot with both eyes open and hold the fork with a pinch grip at about a 30 degree cant using the tip of the fork to point directly at the target. I don't aim by sighting up I point and shoot but you could argue that I do sight up but just not the way you do with a gun sight. I hold the pouch with a twist and I use a floating anchor point but with my pinky finger also directed towards the target. My draw is about 38-40 inches and if I go shorter I can't hit shit. I need length in the draw to sight down the tubes to point the tip of the fork to get on target. I think my style is more popular in China but I shoot that way simply because I've tried everything else and it works for me.

Are you right hand dominant or do you feel it natural to hold with your left hand?


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## Tag

A friend of mine is right handed, but left eye dominet, she shoots her bow left handed. She closes one eye when she shoots her bow, but keeps both eyes open when we shoot clay pigeons with shot guns. She also pitched in a softball league, and she naturally kept both eyes open, while concentrating on the catchers mitt.Ruffus Hussey has an awesome video on a very unique shooting style. If you pick up a rock and throw it at a certain target, do you keep both eyes open? I guess what Im trying to say is, maybe intuitive shooting is what you might try. I hope I haven’t confused you. Keep us informed on your progress.


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## Ibojoe

It takes some time to find what works best for you. But if you are having fun, you will certainly improve. Video your form and tell the camera if the shot was high, low, left or right and see if you can see what caused it on the replay.


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## skropi

I am right handed and holding the sling with my left hand feels natural. When shooting guns, back when I was in the army, I did have both eyes open, but it is easy to focus just one eye through the gun sight by tilting the head to the left, so that the right eye does all the work, and the left doesnt interfere.


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## skropi

This my back up, found some spare tubes and armed it. Will it be good for a complete novice friend?


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## Brook

I don't know if this will help and I am definitely no expert on the subject but this is what I experience when aiming.
I'm right eye dominant.
If I'm shooting with the catty in my left hand with both eyes open I get the double vision of the forks but because I'm right eye dominant my mind sights up the left image with the target instinctively and it all lines up, the same as shooting a shotgun. But although not needed I find by closing my left eye I get better focus of all sight and target with no double vision, this I tend to do with the catty and rifles with open sights.

If I shoot with the catty in the right hand I still get double vision with both eyes open but I have to consciously sight up the right image because if I leave it up to instinct my right eye takes over and the shot is of target. So again mainly I choose to close one eye( this time right )to get a better image and not having to consciously pick the right fork image,

I found that with a little practice I can shoot to a standard I'm happy with each way.

I don't know if this will help or make any sense. Cheers


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## tastetickles

1. Pouch twist depends on your physical attributes. If I use a 7 inches band length I can choose not to twist but since I shoot butterfly, the only way to not feel pain or strain is by twisting. Preferably no speed bump.

2. Anchored is always more accurate due to consistency, that doesn't stop us from practicing floating anchor though.

4. Switch slingshot holding hand.


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> I am right handed and holding the sling with my left hand feels natural. When shooting guns, back when I was in the army, I did have both eyes open, but it is easy to focus just one eye through the gun sight by tilting the head to the left, so that the right eye does all the work, and the left doesnt interfere.


There's a huge difference from shooting targets at 10m using knicker elastic and bbs with an anchored style shooting technique sighting up with the fork tip to shooting over a distance of say 25m or more&#8230; plinking or hunting. Some people can transition between the two while others stick mainly to what they are good at. I think this is where the sport of competitive slingshot target shooting comes in.

If I were you I'd try keeping both eyes open but with a longer draw length mid to full butterfly with twist on the pouch. Your thumb should be on the underside of the pouch and yes you can shoot with a bump but you don't have to it depends on you. Everything is an experiment to see what works best but what you want first is to send your shots straight down the middle on the vertical line and once you can do that it's just about finding your horizontal line to centre up. In fact, once you've found your vertical line through whatever you are shooting at the rest should be easy. When I miss a shot I tend to be low or high either way my adjustment is up or down. If you are shooting and you are all over the place then you don't have your centre line and that's where I would start,


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## skropi

First of all thanks everyone for your advice.
A small update. I now aim with both eyes open, I just focus on the image that is fed through my right eye, and ignore the left eye shenanigans, and yes,I think its more comfortable this way. 
Today I mixed it up a bit, I also shot a bit ott, and apart from a few shots neccessary to find an aiming point, I realised I am equally accurate, ok ok, inaccurate I should say, both ways. 
SkullT, just for the fun of it, I did try some long range shots,25-30 meters long, and to my surprise I didnt do badly. I mean, I just aimed in some general spots, nothing fancy, but I managed to land very near. Dont forget that I am still practicing at 6 meters... 
By the way, would you guys recomend buying a slingshot? Right now I only have my homemade ones, but I do like some commercial catties. If I dont have anything to gain, I guess its just a loss of money, but that hts sling sure got my eye.


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## SkullT

I'm a dankung fan they are like the AK47 of the slingshot world and as a novice you don't have to worry about fork hits, 1billion Chinese can't be wrong....lol


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## Tag

Skropi, this is one of the best post ever You received very helpful information, from a group of amazing Forum members. I hope this inspires other members to join in. There is talent beyond anything I could ever imagine in this Forum. Keep us informed on your progress.


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## skropi

Thank you Tag. Yes, it is really inspiring getting help from more exrerienced indpeople. Everyone that responded in my thread, but others too, as I do read on the forum a lot, are good, and kind people.
Thats all I ask for in a given community, understanding, kindness, and the will and patience to pass on one's knowledge.
All in all, that means a big thank you to everyone 
I will keep adding in this thread anything interesting that crops up, as well as give updates on my progress.


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## Tag

Dominet hand, non dominate eye???? This is by Jack Koehler.. For some reason I cannot get this video to play. I hope this helps.


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## Samurai Samoht

skropi said:


> Hello there fellow slingshooters. As a new shooter, I have many questions regarding technique, so I plan to keep this thread as a kind of diary to record my progress and ask questions.
> Right now I am shooting 2cm straight cut thb gold, 27cm active for a 90cm draw. Its very light, and I did that on purpose to allow me to learn correct technique.
> I am practicing for about a week, and everyday I try something new, so I am a bit confused. I am going for fixed anchor point, because I think it is easier to learn, and I had some progress with it. BUT!!! A few minutes ago I tried a floating anchor point, barely touching my ear lobe with the upper side of my thumb, and oh boy did it work! Much more consistent shots and a bit more power!
> Now on to my questions. Btw I hold the slingshot sideways, using a pinch grip, and my set up is ttf.
> 1. Should I twist the pouch? Going for the so called speed bump? I noticed that with a straight pouch and the floating anchor, I more consistent, less flyers etc
> 2. Fixed vs floating anchor point. By floating I mean semi-floating, as my thumb lightly touches my ear lobe for refference. What would be the best to adhere now in my first steps?
> 3. Am I right going for this light band set up? I am shooting 9.5mm steel and the occasional 16mm marble btw, from about 5-7 meters away.
> 4. I hold the sling with my left arm, and I am dominant right eye. Problem is that when aiming with both eyes open, I get double vision, I cant focus correctly, so I resort to closing my left eye. Any way to solve this? I would love to be able to aim with both eyes open.


Sounds like you are doing well so far!

1. Twisting the pouch is more of a preference thing, but "tweaking" the pouch to get the speedbump effect is something to avoid when shooting TTF generally.

2. I personally use a floating anchor where the bands lightly graze the side of my face and it works well for me. However, having a fixed anchor point will help with consistency right away and reduce the variables for a new shooter.

3. Sounds ok for 9.5mm steel at 5-7m. The bands should last a while since I doubt you are maxing them out. If you step back to 10m and have to lob the shot then maybe shorten the active length a little bit.

4. Might sound funny but when you are aiming down the bands blink your left eye to get your right eye to focus. For many this will allow them to have both eyes open without the double vision problem when aiming.


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## treefork

Tag said:


> FC0289ED-C990-46B3-8010-9CF1C3B5337E.jpeg Dominet hand, non dominate eye This is by Jack Koehler.. For some reason I cannot get this video to play. I hope this helps.


Here you go .


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## Tag

Thanks TreeFork


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## skropi

Ok, time for an update. I solved the eye focus issue, but another little problem cropped up. First of all, I dont use a fixed anchor point, I draw back past my face, but not full batterfly, its somewhat like Bill Hays draws. In the horizontal plane I am ok, I dont veer left or riesight too much, if at all. But vertically, well, there lies the problem. I am either high, or low, rarely on target. Any advice on how to find a refference for my drawing arm?


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## Samurai Samoht

In my opinion the floating anchor point will require a bunch of practice until you have the muscle memory to draw back to the same place each time. The anchor placement can also vary depending on what distance you are shooting from. I recommend working your way to 10m if you have the space and get dialed in. If you are like me and use the same reference point on your slingshot to aim, then lowering the anchor point a tiny bit will raise the shot and raising the anchor point will drop it. The same dynamic applies each time you pick up a slingshot with a wider or narrower fork width than you had been using.


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## SkullT

You might want to try shooting at a greater distance and then moving closer to the target. The thing about shooting at a distance is that everything is exaggerated on the vertical and horizontal planes. A wee bit distance and you really get to see how far off the vertical and horizontal you really are. You might be out by a few centimetres at 6m but nowhere near the centre of the target at 20m or conversely, you might be pretty close. Either way it allows you to draw a comparison between how you shoot over a distance and close up. It's more tactile or kinesthetic you develop a feel for what you are trying to achieve and where you are going wrong.


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## skropi

Hmmm, guys, you got me thinking now. Today's practice was from, well dont laugh, 2.5 meters, yep, around 8 feet... My aim was to get everything perfect uo close before moving out farther. I did have many shots land onto each other btw, but do you really think I should rbetter start practicing at 10m before perfecting my shots up close?


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## Samurai Samoht

skropi said:


> Hmmm, guys, you got me thinking now. Today's practice was from, well dont laugh, 2.5 meters, yep, around 8 feet... My aim was to get everything perfect uo close before moving out farther. I did have many shots land onto each other btw, but do you really think I should rbetter start practicing at 10m before perfecting my shots up close?


If you are not comfortable stepping back that far immediately just slowly work your way out to 10m in increments of your choice (example: increase by a meter every week until you get there). My observation is that challenging yourself at a slightly farther distance will bring more focus and reveal technique inconsistencies more than shooting up close. Try it for a while and then take a step or 2 closer again and see if that helps you.

What are you using as a target?


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## SkullT

What SamuraiSamoht said but I would take it a step further... experiment and develop a feel for what you are doing and don't be ridged in you thinking. Watch videos of different styles of shooters cherry pick their techniques and setups and give them a try but in the end, do what works for you with practice your style of shooting will evolve to become your own.

Try to do things intuitively and if that doesn't work do the opposite...you'll work it out.


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## skropi

I aim at these dots, going for a triangle and then working out any adjustments. As a reference, how big should a target be at 10m?
I do watch and cherry pick, I originally wanted to go for a fixed anchor point, but seeing how others take advantage of a longer draw, without sacrificing accuracy, made me go for a floating anchor point. My reasoning being that its better to learn the hard stuff now rather than later.


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> I aim at these dots, going for a triangle and then working out any adjustments. As a reference, how big should a target be at 10m?
> I do watch and cherry pick, I originally wanted to go for a fixed anchor point, but seeing how others take advantage of a longer draw, without sacrificing accuracy, made me go for a floating anchor point. My reasoning being that its better to learn the hard stuff now rather than later.


You are suffering from over-think in my opinion try to relax and have fun and just see what happens&#8230;there is such a thing as trying too hard and taking things way to seriously.


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## skropi

Hahahaha, yes Skull, I do overthink things, I just like a straight cut theory/practice connection


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> Hahahaha, yes Skull, I do overthink things, I just like a straight cut theory/practice connection


You'll get there... and you will get there faster by making it fun, shoot whatever target size you like at whatever distance you like but make it interesting...mix things up and change things around...that's the best way to learn.


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## skropi

Well, to be frank, I enjoy ripping apart soda cans, building slingshots, targeting meaningless dots on a paper etc. I guess I like all of it hahaha 
Right now I am building a device that will hopefully help me understand where the heck to touch the band on my cheek  I will come back with pics IF I succeed.


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> Well, to be frank, I enjoy ripping apart soda cans, building slingshots, targeting meaningless dots on a paper etc. I guess I like all of it hahaha
> Right now I am building a device that will hopefully help me understand where the heck to touch the band on my cheek  I will come back with pics IF I succeed.


I spent an hour walking the dogs this afternoon and put up a pheasant but the stupid bird flew right at me so I had to shoot as it was flying away from me, I hit it and knocked a few feathers out but the shot had lost its power to bring it down. Driving back from the walk I spotted a Hare at the side of a field. I parked up across from it and opened my driver's side window and the Hare clamped to the ground facing me at about 30m-35m. To shoot this Hare I needed to hit it right between the eyes. I shot and the 9.5 steel went under its chin by about an inch. And the moral of the story is - there's a time for thinking and a time for shooting. Had I time to really think about either of these two shots I would have probably missed by a country mile.


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## skropi

You mean to tell me, subtly, that this here pic, and what it implies, doesnt find you agreeable then?   
I get what you mean mate, but believe me, all this, really is fun to me  oh well, vacation is soon to come, I will be shooting a lot! 
On another note, I am wondering on what ammo to settle, and I am between 9.5mm and 11mm steel, marbles are cheap but too big I think, what would you suggest?


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> You mean to tell me, subtly, that this here pic, and what it implies, doesnt find you agreeable then?
> I get what you mean mate, but believe me, all this, really is fun to me  oh well, vacation is soon to come, I will be shooting a lot!
> On another note, I am wondering on what ammo to settle, and I am between 9.5mm and 11mm steel, marbles are cheap but too big I think, what would you suggest?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1522788590592973416325.jpg


Different...lol


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## tastetickles

skropi said:


> Ok, time for an update. I solved the eye focus issue, but another little problem cropped up. First of all, I dont use a fixed anchor point, I draw back past my face, but not full batterfly, its somewhat like Bill Hays draws. In the horizontal plane I am ok, I dont veer left or riesight too much, if at all. But vertically, well, there lies the problem. I am either high, or low, rarely on target. Any advice on how to find a refference for my drawing arm?


I had this issue and introduced a lot of fork hits on 4 frames that I had until I draw the bands to their "max" of 500% to get an extremely flat trajectory. My drawing hand is still in same position and I only move the slingshot hand to aim higher or lower. It is weird as many people recommending to draw horizontally and pivot at the waist but that did not work for me.


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## Brook

skropi said:


> Ok, time for an update. I solved the eye focus issue, but another little problem cropped up. First of all, I dont use a fixed anchor point, I draw back past my face, but not full batterfly, its somewhat like Bill Hays draws. In the horizontal plane I am ok, I dont veer left or riesight too much, if at all. But vertically, well, there lies the problem. I am either high, or low, rarely on target. Any advice on how to find a refference for my drawing arm?


There's some great advice on here good thread.
To solve this issue I would keep shooting at paper so you can see exactly where you missed, try marking a cross on the


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## Brook

...on the paper and pick a reference point on the fork and stick with it don't worry if you're not hitting the cross your looking for a tight repeatable group higher or lower than the bull, work on your form and release until your are grouping a regular place then you can have a better idea of your reference point on the frame. This reference will change depending on catty, bands, temp, ammo but your anchor and release should stay the same. Hope this is good advice I'm still learning myself. Cheers


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## skropi

The reference point is workable, what bugs me is the drawing hand, I dont seem to find an easy refernce point so as not to get low or high. Today after work morw practice awaits.


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## Brook

You need to have a consistent anchor before you can pick a reference point for aiming. Try touching the bands against your cheek in the same place as your lining the shot up even with butterfly you still need a consistent anchor otherwise your reference for aiming won't work even a floating anchor needs to be the same each time if you want to use a aiming reference point. With enough practice this will come together but you can make it happen quicker by cutting out some variables.


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## SkullT

What Mr Brooks says is true but I would buck convention and throw the rulebook out the window and if you arrive at side shooting TTF with a fixed anchor point after you've tried everything else and that works for you then all is good but I know it never worked for me. I would say experiment and try everything we are all different and what works for some doesn't work for others. I am a great believer in making something your own instead of trying to copy a "proven" method. If you watch Pfshooter Dgui, Rufus Hussey or Torsten they take slingshot shooting to a different level and the rule book goes right out the window, they own their method of shooting.


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## skropi

I agree on all points guys, it is just that now in the beginning, some general guidelines are needed. 
I couldnt practice much today, just around 60-70 shots, but I did follow your advice and I stepped back and shot half from 10m and half from around 6m, and what can I say, you were all right. I did better, I half found a reference for my drawing arm, and I did better than I thought I would. I need much more practice though, much much more.


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## Brook

SkullT said:


> What Mr Brooks says is true but I would buck convention and throw the rulebook out the window and if you arrive at side shooting TTF with a fixed anchor point after you've tried everything else and that works for you then all is good but I know it never worked for me. I would say experiment and try everything we are all different and what works for some doesn't work for others. I am a great believer in making something your own instead of trying to copy a "proven" method. If you watch Pfshooter Dgui, Rufus Hussey or Torsten they take slingshot shooting to a different level and the rule book goes right out the window, they own their method of shooting.


I'm only referring to aiming not intuitive or instinctively like Duji and Ruffus. I thinkTorsten is a gangster aimer. Holding the catty to the side with bands lined up on top of each other will work on any catty dankung,ott, natty or ttf it's all same.


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## SkullT

Mr Brooks said:


> SkullT said:
> 
> 
> 
> What Mr Brooks says is true but I would buck convention and throw the rulebook out the window and if you arrive at side shooting TTF with a fixed anchor point after you've tried everything else and that works for you then all is good but I know it never worked for me. I would say experiment and try everything we are all different and what works for some doesn't work for others. I am a great believer in making something your own instead of trying to copy a "proven" method. If you watch Pfshooter Dgui, Rufus Hussey or Torsten they take slingshot shooting to a different level and the rule book goes right out the window, they own their method of shooting.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm only referring to aiming not intuitive or instinctively like Duji and Ruffus. I thinkTorsten is a gangster aimer. Holding the catty to the side with bands lined up on top of each other will work on any catty dankung,ott, natty or ttf it's all same.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know, I was just making the point that what works for one person regardless of conventional thinking on any particular method, aiming or instinctive there is no rule of thumb when it comes to the individual. I shoot with both eyes open and point the tip of the fork at my target, I feel like I am aiming but maybe not in its truest sense, however I would not claim to be an intuitive shooter but I am sure it's a mixture of both intuition and aiming just not with a defined anchor point and a fork sight lined up with the target.


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## skropi

Well, I am still struggling with the basics. For example, I still dont know whether to have the thumb pointing down, up, or sideways. Pointed down it does give me a longer draw, so I have to see if accuracy is affected. Tommorow I will get at least 200-300 shots, so hopefully I will get back to you with some results, and probably more questions lol.


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## Brook

I agree skull, i think the everyone develops there own style, I still haven't really settled on one thing. I'm best short draw but like butterfly for the power and speed and still take instinctive shots at game although I'm not very accurate instinctively, I shot instinctivly since I was young now I'm aiming my accuracy is much better but on the over hand I'm shooting 1000's of shots a week now and then it was just a few leads in the woods.

Skropi, this is all part of the game and the addiction, stay focused and have fun????


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## SkullT

Actually, if you think of a sliding scale Pfshooter Dgui and Rufus Hussey are at one end of the scale and Torsten is at the other - Intuitive ------------ Everyone Else ----------- Aiming- most people lie somewhere in-between regardless of their shooting style. It's about working out what works best for you... :target:


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## skropi

Time for a little update guys. Today went better. The first shots of the morning were bad, but after a while it went ok. I did manage to get more consistenmt and from a greater distance, I shoot at around 7m and beyond, and with success even from 10m. 
Practice, practice, practice. Guys you are right, theory is good and impprtant, but if you dont shoot 1000's of shots, you aren't going to improve. 
I hope I am getting there. At least today was a good shooting day


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## skropi

Good morning guys! 
The first shooting session of today went perfect. I tried the new catty I made, and what can I say? Lets just say that I shot exclusively from 10m because any nearer and there was no challenge anymore! The bands are way more powerful, 2.5cm straight cut, 18cm active, for a 100cm draw. The lid I have as a target is finally getting some holes! The other difference from the previous cattie is that I made an aiming dimple in this one, but I did draw a line on the band in the previous.
So guys, what gives? Why did I imrpove so much? Is it just practice or some of the other variables I changed?


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## skropi

Ok, here is a short video of my shooting "range"


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## Tag

Love the video, glad you shared it with the Forum. Nice shooting range


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## skropi

Another small update. In my evening's practice I scaled down the target. I added a bottle cap, and I managed to hit it 2 out of 8 shots, whith those missing going a hair away from hitting. 
Guys, I am at a loss. A few days back, I was shooting from 3m, and I was struggling, and now this. I stiljl think its the aiming dimple and the stronger bands helping me, to be frank.
So, next aim will be to hit the bottle cap consistently, do you think 5 out out 10 shots hitting will be enough as a target stepstone?


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## SkullT

Don't worry it's only a matter of time before you start shooting like shit, again... you probably won't be as bad as when you started but slingshot shooting is a funny old game... anic:


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## skropi

Hahaha, I know what you mean, but still, the progress from 0 to something is spectacular and quick. I am just not sure what it takes to get from above "something" to greatness... Hmmm, I think it wont be easy  But hey, thats the beauty of it!
Ok, now that I think about it, I'll ask one more question. I am currently shooting 9.5mm steel, is there any advantage in going 11mm if I dont hunt?


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## SkullT

The more steel or lead the heavier bands/tubes you need to tune your draw...and usually your accuracy will suffer the heavier you go...


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## Brook

Cool video bud you got set up nicely 
Great work on your progress. 
As for the ammo, sticking with one you'll probably gain accuracy quicker and 9.5mm is cheaper


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## skropi

The cheapest ammo I can find is 16mm marbles. I got some, but they are too big, so they cant really share a pouch with 9.5mm, so I abandoned them for now. I was also thinking that sticking with one type of ammo would be best, no tinkering with bands etc.


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## BushpotChef

I love me some marbles lol. Cheap , plentiful, enough weight for most small game. Also I've found they are easier to grip when fingers are cold or otherwise not performing at their best lol.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## SkullT

Try 8mm steel and take your bands/tubes down a notch you can usually buy more for less and still hunt birds and **** if that takes your fancy but with a longer draw. You might want to try pseudo tapers on tubes or re-cut your bands or try a different colour(lighter band) to suit your weight of ammo. If you watch some of the Chinese shooters it's small steel with light fast tubes and that's for hunting. We all go through a phase of looking for that one hat fits all approach but everything is compromise. I Luv pseudo tapers but shoot a lot of the time with looped tubes. The pseudo tapers feel good but the looped tubes get the job done and then some... but they don't feel as satisfying when I hit what I am aiming at and are a little harsh with too much work involved.

You've just got to find what combination of ammo tubes/band works for you... :banana:


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## rosco

Skropi we are both on the same path. Couldn't hit a thing, thought I'd just see what instinct had to show me and when that didn't work I looked for tutors. Here and the tube is a great resource and as a result I'm now hitting stuff. I needed tuition. A lot to consider when we are starting out, but all advice is worth consideration.

Something that improved my shooting (mainly ott) above all else was concentrating on my pouch release. A 90 degree twist and....difficult to describe, but not letting my index finger bone knuckle get in the way so the release was neater was a revelation. Still find I over think every shot, I'm not fast, but every week sees an improvement and speed will come with confidence I'm sure. Another thing you mentioned a way back was trying out a good commercial, highly regarded slingshot. I did and that was well worth the money for both shooting and how better to further your craftsmanship. It's a fabulous sport and who would've thought that such a simple thing could be so richly engaging.


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## skropi

I will add something about the release. I am confident that whenever I hit the target, 90% is the release. Every single time I concentrate on having the pouch centered and releasing smoothly, I hit the target, or at least I miss by a hair.
As for ammo, thats a good idea Skull. I will try some 8mm too. A longer draw will be a challenge though


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## skropi

I officialy upgraded, or should I say downgraded, to these targets. I dont hit them often from the 10m mark, but I do shoot close enough so as to be interesting. 
I know that a 2.8cm circle is not extraordinary for you guys, not to mention that I dont hit it consistently, but do keep in mind that 15 days ago I didnt even know how to gold the slingshot. All in all, its not half bad.


----------



## Brook

2.8 cm target in 15 days I'd say that's pretty extraordinary ????
It's cool following your progress your enthusiasm is contagious. Cheers


----------



## BushpotChef

Mr Brooks said:


> 2.8 cm target in 15 days I'd say that's pretty extraordinary
> It's cool following your progress your enthusiasm is contagious. Cheers


What Brooks said man. Awesome progress keep it up were all rooting for you. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> I officialy upgraded, or should I say downgraded, to these targets. I dont hit them often from the 10m mark, but I do shoot close enough so as to be interesting.
> I know that a 2.8cm circle is not extraordinary for you guys, not to mention that I dont hit it consistently, but do keep in mind that 15 days ago I didnt even know how to gold the slingshot. All in all, its not half bad.


Are those caps glued to the strings or run through a hole in the cap?

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

BushpotChef said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I officialy upgraded, or should I say downgraded, to these targets. I dont hit them often from the 10m mark, but I do shoot close enough so as to be interesting.
> I know that a 2.8cm circle is not extraordinary for you guys, not to mention that I dont hit it consistently, but do keep in mind that 15 days ago I didnt even know how to gold the slingshot. All in all, its not half bad.
> 
> 
> 
> Are those caps glued to the strings or run through a hole in the cap?
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The plastic caps are run through a small nail, and the string isi tied on the nail's head. The beer cap is secured on the string with normal adhesive tape.

They are able to turn and show the small edge to me, and that is on purpose to make things interesting. I hope I get consistent with those mini targets


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## skropi

Heya guys. As promised, today saw me practicing with those little caps. I found out that my release needs much work, along with my floating anchor point (Bill Hays is who I imitate). It was a good practicing day, I did improve, but it was far less of an improvement compared to previous days. Most probably I am reaching my first technique threshold, so what comes next is much more, and much harder work.
I also discovered that I may prefer 11mm steel more than 9.5, because it feels more hefty in the pouch.
I did meassure the fps I am getting with both, using chrono connect, and what surprised me is that I got similar results. Maybe I am overpowering the 9.5mm? My setup is straight cut, 2.5cm tbg, 18.5cm active, for a 100cm draw length.
I would also like to ask those that use tbg. For a 100cm draw length, what would be a good set up to get around 220 fps using 11mm, and another for 9.5mm steel? Jorg's calculator is a bit overkill I think, as it requires double tbg for 11mm, and 2.93cm straight cut for 9.5, so I am not sure I will follow it. I hope Jorg would answer what kind of power is his calculator geared to.


----------



## rosco

Hi Skropi. I can’t help you on the ratio, brain does not have the firepower, but as for furthering your research on technique, I just dug out a book I bought some years ago by Jack H. Koehler. It’s called “Slingshot Shooting” and is I believe the only book written about slingshots. He is regarded as the father of the sport and while some of it is outdated, he is bang on the money about shooting. Well worth picking up for a bedside read. One point he makes is taking a moment before the sling is brought up to take the shot, is of visualising hitting the bulls eye. Such a simple thing, but it has made a big difference to my shooting.


----------



## Brook

skropi said:


> Heya guys. As promised, today saw me practicing with those little caps. I found out that my release needs much work, along with my floating anchor point (Bill Hays is who I imitate). It was a good practicing day, I did improve, but it was far less of an improvement compared to previous days. Most probably I am reaching my first technique threshold, so what comes next is much more, and much harder work.
> I also discovered that I may prefer 11mm steel more than 9.5, because it feels more hefty in the pouch.
> I did meassure the fps I am getting with both, using chrono connect, and what surprised me is that I got similar results. Maybe I am overpowering the 9.5mm? My setup is straight cut, 2.5cm tbg, 18.5cm active, for a 100cm draw length.
> I would also like to ask those that use tbg. For a 100cm draw length, what would be a good set up to get around 220 fps using 11mm, and another for 9.5mm steel? Jorg's calculator is a bit overkill I think, as it requires double tbg for 11mm, and 2.93cm straight cut for 9.5, so I am not sure I will follow it. I hope Jorg would answer what kind of power is his calculator geared to.


For 9.5mm steel on targets, 20mm straights are popular, they're a nice light draw, accurate and fast when maxed out.
For 11mm Steel try adding a couple of mm. 
If you still want more speed try tapering , instead of 20mm straight cut, you could try taper 17mm to 23mm.
Again preference has a lot to do with it, personally I like a light draw weight and maxed out bands


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## skropi

Today the cap was much easier to hit. I hit MUCH more consistently, I really didnt expect to improve so much from yesterday, but the key is, I think, that I hold the catty 100% straigh to the target, something that clicked only yesterday, and I am much more aware of my release. 
I still havent tried hitting the matches, but I think its the next step, as hitting the cap is a matter of 3-4 shots, no matter the cap's orientation. 
I will shortly post a video of me shooting, so that you can point out any mistakes I make.
Needless to say, I am more confident and excited than ever  And all thanks to you guys, and Bill Hays who I try and emulate.


----------



## skropi

Here it is guys.


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## skropi

Ok, today I drew all my attention to the matches. The first 100-150 shots yielded some results, but were generally......FRUSTRATING. I did get close enough on occassion, but yeah, just on occassion. In the next 150 shots I reconsidered my pouch hand position technique, at last I returned to what I usually do, but did it more consciously, and VOILA!, I got good consistency, not many hits, in total I think I got around 6, but I managed to get extremely near the matches' tip consistently, which was my purpose. That thing called slingshot amazes me everyday!
I think that I may need to try a shorter pouch, hmmmm...


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## Brook

Looking good to mate, what I find helpful is to shoot at paper or cardboard to really see what's going on with my missed shots and you see where you grouping in relation to the bull


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## SkullT

Well done that man ....shooting like a pro...


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## skropi

I went early from work, I am ill 
Anyway, I will try and get 100 shots just to consolidate today's progress...which although good, it also left me with questions and doubts about my floating anchor. There were some flyers, and although I would like to accuse my illness, I do know it was my fault. 
Thanks for your comforting words guys, my hands are sore from shooting, and they really appreciate it


----------



## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> I went early from work, I am ill
> Anyway, I will try and get 100 shots just to consolidate today's progress...which although good, it also left me with questions and doubts about my floating anchor. There were some flyers, and although I would like to accuse my illness, I do know it was my fault.
> Thanks for your comforting words guys, my hands are sore from shooting, and they really appreciate it


You're a slingshot soldier man good for you Lol! Just my opinion but a fixed anchor is how I went from popping cans to cutting cards. Just me and my 2 cents but TTF with a fixed anchor to me is superior to any other aiming technique. Everything just becomes as consistent as the tides and you can adjust for things very rapidly.

Best of luck, get well soon! 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

BushpotChef said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went early from work, I am ill
> Anyway, I will try and get 100 shots just to consolidate today's progress...which although good, it also left me with questions and doubts about my floating anchor. There were some flyers, and although I would like to accuse my illness, I do know it was my fault.
> Thanks for your comforting words guys, my hands are sore from shooting, and they really appreciate it
> 
> 
> 
> You're a slingshot soldier man good for you Lol! Just my opinion but a fixed anchor is how I went from popping cans to cutting cards. Just me and my 2 cents but TTF with a fixed anchor to me is superior to any other aiming technique. Everything just becomes as consistent as the tides and you can adjust for things very rapidly.
> Best of luck, get well soon!
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I managed to shoot, YES!!! Well, my consistency is back, I think that I was overly confident this morning, and that affected me negatively.
I am 101% sure that a normal archery/fixed anchor will yield better results and quicker, but I gain around 9 inches more draw length now, and I confess that I am addicted to longer drawn bands


----------



## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went early from work, I am ill
> Anyway, I will try and get 100 shots just to consolidate today's progress...which although good, it also left me with questions and doubts about my floating anchor. There were some flyers, and although I would like to accuse my illness, I do know it was my fault.
> Thanks for your comforting words guys, my hands are sore from shooting, and they really appreciate it
> 
> 
> 
> You're a slingshot soldier man good for you Lol! Just my opinion but a fixed anchor is how I went from popping cans to cutting cards. Just me and my 2 cents but TTF with a fixed anchor to me is superior to any other aiming technique. Everything just becomes as consistent as the tides and you can adjust for things very rapidly.
> Best of luck, get well soon!
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I managed to shoot, YES!!! Well, my consistency is back, I think that I was overly confident this morning, and that affected me negatively.
> I am 101% sure that a normal archery/fixed anchor will yield better results and quicker, but I gain around 9 inches more draw length now, and I confess that I am addicted to longer drawn bands
Click to expand...

To each his own man and all the power to you for sticking with it. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I went early from work, I am ill
> Anyway, I will try and get 100 shots just to consolidate today's progress...which although good, it also left me with questions and doubts about my floating anchor. There were some flyers, and although I would like to accuse my illness, I do know it was my fault.
> Thanks for your comforting words guys, my hands are sore from shooting, and they really appreciate it
> 
> 
> 
> You're a slingshot soldier man good for you Lol! Just my opinion but a fixed anchor is how I went from popping cans to cutting cards. Just me and my 2 cents but TTF with a fixed anchor to me is superior to any other aiming technique. Everything just becomes as consistent as the tides and you can adjust for things very rapidly.
> Best of luck, get well soon!
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I managed to shoot, YES!!! Well, my consistency is back, I think that I was overly confident this morning, and that affected me negatively.
> I am 101% sure that a normal archery/fixed anchor will yield better results and quicker, but I gain around 9 inches more draw length now, and I confess that I am addicted to longer drawn bands
Click to expand...

Ah, so you're only human...like the rest of us...good to know... :banana: oh and you like a long draw length... this will be interesting... :rofl: "welcome to the desert"... name the film? :rofl:


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## rosco

Different smokes for different blokes. If you can nail it with a floating anchor, then more power to your arms Skropi, but if I don’t do fixed, I get squat. I might have to work on floating. Something inherently satisfying in punching hard.


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## SkullT

rosco said:


> Different smokes for different blokes. If you can nail it with a floating anchor, then more power to your arms Skropi, but if I don't do fixed, I get squat. I might have to work on floating. Something inherently satisfying in punching hard.


Absolutely!! Punching hard is the way to go...there's something about shooting over 20- 25m that rocks your world and seeing something drop at 40m is sooooo satisfying...it's like, wtf, how did I miss that marble at 10m? Blows my mind! :ups:


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## rosco

True nuff SkullT. When I hit something at 40 m it has a giggle and a shrug.


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## skropi

I think a floating anchor, which is not far back, is not so hard. Rosco, what helped me was to lock my elbow, having my wrist as close as it can get to my shoulder. That helps a lot with consistency, as the only other variable is the band touching my face. 
To be honest, I tried full butterfly 4-5 times, but I hardly hit the catchbox .


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## rosco

Butterfly I shall reserve for retirement. It definitely needs time. My rough attempts were laughable. I take your point about the locked elbow Skropi, but I also have a full, untouched,15 year old beard that the pouch needs to find its way through. It's not good for stews, soft eggs and slingshots. On the plus side though, it's a flavour saver.


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## skropi

The first half cut card    It wasnt well secured, maybe that was the reason it wasnt cut all the way through? Yep, I love the scorpion.


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## Jolly Roger

Bill Hays uses spring or pony clamps to hold his cards. I've found that to hold them securely a staple gun works well. Just staple the bottom edge of the card to a 2x4 or wood post to hold them securely. However, I've seen videos of bill cutting a swinging card in two.


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## Bill Hays

If you hit them with enough velocity, you can cut them just free hanging... But for beginning card cuts, there is certainly nothing wrong with a well secured card... you just want to make sure you're cutting and not tearing though.

I came up with that shot because of how my Grandfather showed me how well he could shoot his pistol... He is one of the only people I've ever seen who could do free hanging card cuts, and he did them at decent distances too... like out to 25' or so.

When I started shooting/cutting cards with a slingshot, my mind and my shooting was being held back by what I had seen in the past and therefore thought might very well be the limit of how accurate a person can be with a slingshot.

By always pushing the boundaries, designing a better way and a better method, then pushing more and more... Starting with a simple card cut at 33' and then increasing distance and difficulty over the course of time... WE ALL have pushed the sport forward... So now it makes it seem that shots like card cutting and match lighting are relatively simple and common things that just about anybody can do with a little practice and the right slingshot for the job...

And that just wasn't the case a mere 8 years ago... back then, if you were able to hit a soda can 10 times in a row from 10 meters, you were considered one of the best on the planet... European championships were held shooting at 10 cm clay targets... the WORLD RECORD was 10 cans in a minute....

Now the bullseye is only 4 cm and the World Record is 25 cans in a minute... So we're basically 2.5 times better on average as shooters than we were back then...

Things have changed... and we're all a part of it... the more you push the boundaries and show something CAN be done... the more that others follow and believe they can do it too... and in turn they that follow begin to push boundaries as well...

We have yet to reach the pinnacle of what can be done with a slingshot... and the journey to that end has been and is very entertaining!


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## BushpotChef

Bill Hays said:


> If you hit them with enough velocity, you can cut them just free hanging... But for beginning card cuts, there is certainly nothing wrong with a well secured card... you just want to make sure you're cutting and not tearing though.
> 
> I came up with that shot because of how my Grandfather showed me how well he could shoot his pistol... He is one of the only people I've ever seen who could do free hanging card cuts, and he did them at decent distances too... like out to 25' or so.
> When I started shooting/cutting cards with a slingshot, my mind and my shooting was being held back by what I had seen in the past and therefore thought might very well be the limit of how accurate a person can be with a slingshot.
> 
> By always pushing the boundaries, designing a better way and a better method, then pushing more and more... Starting with a simple card cut at 33' and then increasing distance and difficulty over the course of time... WE ALL have pushed the sport forward... So now it makes it seem that shots like card cutting and match lighting are relatively simple and common things that just about anybody can do with a little practice and the right slingshot for the job...
> 
> And that just wasn't the case a mere 8 years ago... back then, if you were able to hit a soda can 10 times in a row from 10 meters, you were considered one of the best on the planet... European championships were held shooting at 10 cm clay targets... the WORLD RECORD was 10 cans in a minute....
> Now the bullseye is only 4 cm and the World Record is 25 cans in a minute... So we're basically 2.5 times better on average as shooters than we were back then...
> 
> Things have changed... and we're all a part of it... the more you push the boundaries and show something CAN be done... the more that others follow and believe they can do it too... and in turn they that follow begin to push boundaries as well...
> We have yet to reach the pinnacle of what can be done with a slingshot... and the journey to that end has been and is very entertaining!


Wise words and all very true, just one question:

At what distance is the 25 cans in A minute records held at?

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

Well said Bill. To be frank, I had no idea what was considered good. I started shooting slingshots at the end of March, and all I knew was the videos I watched in youtube and this forum. 
I like shooting everything, but the slingshot is the most satisfying and awe inspiring.
I am still at the beginning of course, a lucky card cut isnt what I aspire to. I will consider myself decent if I manage to cut a card in 1 out of 10 shots.
I am sure with the help of everyone here, it is a feasible target.
Thank you all guys.


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## Brook

skropi said:


> Well said Bill. To be frank, I had no idea what was considered good. I started shooting slingshots at the end of March, and all I knew was the videos I watched in youtube and this forum.
> I like shooting everything, but the slingshot is the most satisfying and awe inspiring.
> I am still at the beginning of course, a lucky card cut isnt what I aspire to. I will consider myself decent if I manage to cut a card in 1 out of 10 shots.
> I am sure with the help of everyone here, it is a feasible target.
> Thank you all guys.


You'll be there in no time at all mate????


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## BushpotChef

I really hope someone can find that one our for me lol!

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## MakoPat

After reading the whole thread I think two basic styles are at play.

Instinctive or intuitive shooting versus precision or aimimg style.

For learning your intuitive fast style (used for hunting and dueling) 10 meters is good with a floating anchor. I like to use a big piece of white paper or poster board with coin sized bright bull eye's. Pinch, point, pull and release all very smoothly and do not aim... just focus on that bull's eye. The big target and distance lets you track your shooting and dial it in. Pay attention to your posture and your grip. I am assume frame in left hand both eyes open.

Aiming style- I shot intuitive so many years that I recently had to relearn to do this. My rezeducation went like this. I used a fixed anchor point with the sideways cant in order close my left eye (sling in left hand and left foot pointing forward) pinch, point, pull, aim then release. I sight down the band over a point on the left fork. Someone on the forum had made a V on their fork in homemade slingshots forum and marked a line on their band. I did not go that far but the visual helped. I used notecard at 7 meters with a very small dot in the center to train the eye.

I always start and end a training session with intuitive or fast style and practice aiming or precision style in the middle. The warm up helps and the cool down is relaxing.I had to work on relaxing a lot.
I hope this helps and keeps the fun level high.


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## wbrazell

Coming from an archery background, fixed anchor is the only way I can hit anything.


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## BushpotChef

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

Ok, today all my shooting was hard. I right hand is sore, my elbow is sore, everything is sore, lol. 
I just persevered, and changed my bands to 20/15, I think for 3/8 steel its enough anyway, dont you think? It felt a bit easier on the draw.
Anyway, I am building my consistency slowly and surely, but guys, every single shot today was painful hahaha.


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## SkullT

wbrazell said:


> Coming from an archery background, fixed anchor is the only way I can hit anything.


I am the complete opposite. I can't use a fixed anchor point with any real degree of success and Idon't enjoy even trying it goes completely against everything I do as a shooter. A long draw with a floating anchor bags of punch and it's game on....


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## skropi

Skull, I tried some fixed anchor today, and with good success. Personally, I am equally accurate either way, maybe a tiny bit more accurate using a fixed anchor. So the choice is clear.
What I like in a floating anchor is the better draw length, which equates better power at lower draw weight, which equates better accuracy and less fatigue because of said less draw weight. 
Then again, I only started exploring all the different options, so I am not sure where this journey will take me. For now, I am trying this way, as I saw that many accomplished shooters do well with it. Later on? Who knows? ButnI do really hope I wont have to change things all lot.


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## Tag

Brooks said it the best. Your enthusiasm is contagious


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## skropi

Tag said:


> Brooks said it the best. Your enthusiasm is contagious


My poor thumb and index finger is in constant pain though lol 
Guys, one question, what would you say is the minimum speed for 10m target shooting? Something in the range of 200fps or maybe more? With 20/15 and 95cm draw length, I get around 206fps with 9.5mm steel. This is using chrono connect of course, and I dont how accurate it is, as I havent set it up the way suggested here in the forum.


----------



## SkullT

skropi said:


> Skull, I tried some fixed anchor today, and with good success. Personally, I am equally accurate either way, maybe a tiny bit more accurate using a fixed anchor. So the choice is clear.
> What I like in a floating anchor is the better draw length, which equates better power at lower draw weight, which equates better accuracy and less fatigue because of said less draw weight.
> Then again, I only started exploring all the different options, so I am not sure where this journey will take me. For now, I am trying this way, as I saw that many accomplished shooters do well with it. Later on? Who knows? ButnI do really hope I wont have to change things all lot.


Try shooting in the woods or on land plinking at random targets with no fixed distance up to about 40m and maybe at some live game for the pot? You are entering a different world and you will actually be using your your slingshot for its intended purpose. Here in the UK a Slingshot/Catapult is very much a poachers tool. I know a lot of people like to call it a hunting tool but I think that's a more sanitized version. Slingshot/Catapult target shooting is a fairly recent development here UK.


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## skropi

Here in Greece, hunting with anything other than smooth bores is prohibited. That means only one thing........................that slingies are perfect for hunting because they are easy to conceal and make no noise  If I get out with my air rifle I am getting into trouble just having it with me.
The thing is that I still dont trust my accuracy is good enough for hunting. Pigeons and pigeon-like birds are tough, and I would hate to wound a poor creature and not kill it outright. So, hunting will have to wait a bit


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> Here in Greece, hunting with anything other than smooth bores is prohibited. That means only one thing........................that slingies are perfect for hunting because they are easy to conceal and make no noise  If I get out with my air rifle I am getting into trouble just having it with me.
> The thing is that I still dont trust my accuracy is good enough for hunting. Pigeons and pigeon-like birds are tough, and I would hate to wound a poor creature and not kill it outright. So, hunting will have to wait a bit


"Nature is red in tooth and claw" in the wild animals don't die of old age they either get too slow and tired to feed themselves or get injured and fall prey to predators. That's not to say you shouldn't do your best to humanely kill an animal but in truth, it's prospects are not good either way, I don't beat myself up about it. :mellow:


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## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> Tag said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brooks said it the best. Your enthusiasm is contagious
> 
> 
> 
> My poor thumb and index finger is in constant pain though lol
> Guys, one question, what would you say is the minimum speed for 10m target shooting? Something in the range of 200fps or maybe more? With 20/15 and 95cm draw length, I get around 206fps with 9.5mm steel. This is using chrono connect of course, and I dont how accurate it is, as I havent set it up the way suggested here in the forum.
Click to expand...

Chrono connect is quite accurate when set up correctly. Within a 10 to 15 fps spread. 200 fps at 33 ft is solid, but I'd go faster with a 9.5 and push for 230ish but that's me and I'm typically hunting.

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## rosco

Same here in Australia Skropi. Hunting is banned with a slingshot and when I am hunting (guns), unless I can positively take a kill shot, I just won't take it.

Recently discovered how silent gypsy tabs and tubes are. Very satisfying results can be had with such a quiet shooter. As to shooting techniques I'm more than happy with my new found accuracy with my fixed anchor plinking and more than happy to learn at a later date all the other techniques - pfs, butterfly, instinctive, fast......That's the beauty of this sport, there are so many variations on a common theme to look forward to.


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## M.J

BushpotChef said:


> Wise words and all very true, just one question:
> At what distance is the 25 cans in A minute records held at?
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


I don't know if anybody answered you yet, but it's 10 meters.


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## Jolly Roger

I'd just like to say that it is inspiring to read your posts and your determination to continue to improve your slingshot shooting at an accelerated pace and willingness to ask for and receive advice from others. You are going to be a champion shooter to contend with.


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## BushpotChef

M.J said:


> BushpotChef said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wise words and all very true, just one question:
> At what distance is the 25 cans in A minute records held at?
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if anybody answered you yet, but it's 10 meters.
Click to expand...

Thank you kind sir lol. I sort of figured it was but just wanted clarification. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

Hello guys. Thank you all for your kind words. Today I didnt get to shoot, I overslept and it got dark. So I've learnt two things today. 
1. It is good to have some rest, so as to get my muscles stronger.
2. I need to upgrade my lightning so that no rest can be had, only relentless shooting, at least till I can positevely say that I reached my top form.
Hmmm, a bit of a contradiction....


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## BushpotChef

Sleep when you're dead m8.

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## skropi

Heya guys. I will update about today's progress a bit later. In the meantime, could someone tell me some general guidelines about how to hold the damned pouch?  I known about holding directly on the ammo, release etc, I mean actually holding it, which knuckles etc, so as to have good stability.


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> Heya guys. I will update about today's progress a bit later. In the meantime, could someone tell me some general guidelines about how to hold the damned pouch?  I known about holding directly on the ammo, release etc, I mean actually holding it, which knuckles etc, so as to have good stability.


You'd be better doing a search for images showing shooting methods of how each shooter holds his pouch as the variations can be very slight but mega important.


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## rosco

I'm all ears on this. I got my style, thumb and index squeezing the ammo through the pouch rather than pinching the pouch in front of the ammo, working well enough, but I sometimes get a premature release. Nothing unusual there.....

I saw that ridiculously fast opfs shooter Dgui use his ring finger rather than index, so I've been trying that lately. Awkward, not sure if I can be bothered sticking to it. His vids inspired me to make an opfs couple days ago and I'm loving it. Raw, basic and practical.....can't hit stuff yet though.....sorry off topic.


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## skropi

The problem is that after many shots, my fingers fatigue. So I am thinking I am doing something wrong. I changed my pouch, I had a veeeery soft one, and put a stiffer on to see if it will help. Right now I am pinching the ammo between the pad of my thumb and the second knuckle of my index finger. I tried first knuckle too, but I dont see much difference. I am finding it very hard to keep the ammo under control. With a longer draw length, do I need, maybe to make the draw weight a bit lighter? Straight cut 20/20 tbg is what I use, 93cm draw length at 500% elongation. When I tried 20/15 at 75cm draw length, also at 500%, it was much easier, but I stupidly insist on my floating anchor. And I tried 20/15 at 93cm draw too, it was better, but still not easy. I am afraid if I go lighter, I wont have enough power. Right now I am at 240fps, give or take.


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## wbrazell

I am far from an expert. The way I hold the pouch/ammo is between the thumb pad, at about opposite the base of the thumbnail, and the index finger, between the first and second joint/knuckles. Hope this helps a bit.


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## Grandpa Grumpy

skropi said:


> The problem is that after many shots, my fingers fatigue. So I am thinking I am doing something wrong. I changed my pouch, I had a veeeery soft one, and put a stiffer on to see if it will help. Right now I am pinching the ammo between the pad of my thumb and the second knuckle of my index finger. I tried first knuckle too, but I dont see much difference. I am finding it very hard to keep the ammo under control. With a longer draw length, do I need, maybe to make the draw weight a bit lighter? Straight cut 20/20 tbg is what I use, 93cm draw length at 500% elongation. When I tried 20/15 at 75cm draw length, also at 500%, it was much easier, but I stupidly insist on my floating anchor. And I tried 20/15 at 93cm draw too, it was better, but still not easy. I am afraid if I go lighter, I wont have enough power. Right now I am at 240fps, give or take.


Maybe you need to shorten your shooting session untill your fingers gain strength.

I shoot holding the slingshot sideways with the thumb of the pouch hand toward the ground, pinching the ammo between my thumb and between the first and second knuckles of my fore finger, all other fingers spread. I feel this gives a cleaner release. Also I feel it is easier to pull than with the thumb up. I hope this makes sense.


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## skropi

Ok, guys, time for a little update. 
Yesterday I got dissapointed. My fingers ached, my arms ached, it got dark outside and I couldnt hit anything, total dissapointment settled in. I was determined to change my style to fixed anchor point today if my bad shooting continued. So, today's practice came. I shot a bit with my usual 20/20 straight cut tbg, it went ok, not bad. Then I decided to change my bands to 20/15....oh boy did it make a difference. Easier pull, less power, but still plenty for 10m and 9.5mm steel, and yep, I managed to shoot much better than yesterday, so the floating anchor remains. I still need to practice my release though.
Btw Is 10mm steel easier to grip than 9mm? Its a bit annoying fiddling with 9.5mm, so, is 10mm noticeably heftier?
Oh, btw, my fingers develop caluses, thats good, and I didnt get as tired today.


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## 3danman

skropi said:


> Ok, guys, time for a little update.
> Yesterday I got dissapointed. My fingers ached, my arms ached, it got dark outside and I couldnt hit anything, total dissapointment settled in. I was determined to change my style to fixed anchor point today if my bad shooting continued. So, today's practice came. I shot a bit with my usual 20/20 straight cut tbg, it went ok, not bad. Then I decided to change my bands to 20/15....oh boy did it make a difference. Easier pull, less power, but still plenty for 10m and 9.5mm steel, and yep, I managed to shoot much better than yesterday, so the floating anchor remains. I still need to practice my release though.
> Btw Is 10mm steel easier to grip than 9mm? Its a bit annoying fiddling with 9.5mm, so, is 10mm noticeably heftier?
> Oh, btw, my fingers develop caluses, thats good, and I didnt get as tired today.


You might try some half inch steel or 5/8" marbles if 9.5 mil is too small.


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## skropi

Half inch and 5/8 feels too big. I tried 7/16 (11mm), and feels almost perfect, thats why I am asking for something between 9.5 and 11mm.


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## Brook

It will get easier as your fingers gain strength and toughen up a thicker pouch will help until then but will cost a bit of speed, have you tried the 17/23 taper yet? If you haven’t I think you might like it????


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## SkullT

You need to go for a walk plinking at random targets literally, anything that presents itself as a target instead of grinding it out target shooting. It gives you a chance to shoot at different angles and distances and forces you to improvise and adapt to the enviroment in which you are shooting. Target shooting on your own range can be fun but too much of the same thing is not good for anyone...live a little...


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## skropi

I am at work now, I dont have much time to post, but I am getting there, yesterday was a good shooting day. My main issue now is just keeping the slingshot steady, my release slowly improves, and the world keeps going 
Skull, my ammo is a bit limited right now, so I cant afford to waste it. In Greece its impossible to find cheap steel, and shipping costs are high. When I save some money I will order from kugel-winnie, but for the time being....ammo starvation.


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## skropi

I just prepared my scorpion with longer bands, to accomodate a 108cm draw... I decided to change my technique a bit, at least try. I cut 18/13 tbg, 21.6 active. It is very light, and purposely, so as to check out the difference. If it turns out that the speed doesnt suffer, plus I get more accurate, thats how I will shoot. Only drawback is that if it turns out well, my theraband is precut shorter


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## skropi

Well, my stubborness gave way to logic. I now shoot exxlusively with a fixed anchor point, and I am doing much much better. 
The difference is night and day guys, but I feel I just lost a battle, even though I hit way more consistently


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## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> Well, my stubborness gave way to logic. I now shoot exxlusively with a fixed anchor point, and I am doing much much better.
> The difference is night and day guys, but I feel I just lost a battle, even though I hit way more consistently


I was wondering when you'd give in lol. IMHO there's no reason anyone can give me why a fixed anchor isn't the way to go. It's not to say some shooters aren't excellent with a floating anchor, but if you're after pure consistency logic would dictate you develop your technique accordingly. Same stance, anchor point, reference point & pouch release shot to shot - that's the key to accuracy. In all honesty if you read any old articles on hunting with a pistol, you'll get some awesome 'cross over' information that can be directly applied to slingshot shooting. I'm going to transfer some from print this afternoon so if you're interested, keep an eye out for that. I'm happy for your continued enthusiasm and progress, you're doing excellent just remember to stay motivated!

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

I also followed another advice. I didnt only shot at the target. I also shot m6 and m8 hex nuts for pure fun and destruction  Felt like a kid again, and only shot at 15+ m, not with bad results. Is there something between m6 and m8 hex nuts? I can find them dirt cheap, for 1 euro I get around 75  Now that I think about it, they could become my main ammo, as I am poor at the moment. Would they be good for target shooting?


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## Brook

Don’t worry mate because all the practice with a fixed anchor will still improve your long pull game, I find although I mainly shoot short pull I keep a couple of shooters rigged up long pull and notice improvement when I shoot them even after some time. Some people get on really well with hex nuts, what about lead?


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## skropi

I am not against led, I can find tire weights for cheap here. The problem is that I dont have a mold to make ammo. I am torn between hex nuts, m7 or m8, but probably m7 for the flatter trajectory, and 9.5mm steel. I would like to concentrate only on one type of ammo so as to be more consistent. Problem is that steel is expensive, and hex nuts DIRT cheap, but I am not willing to sacrifice target accuracy for price.


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## Kalevala

skropi said:


> I also followed another advice. I didnt only shot at the target. I also shot m6 and m8 hex nuts for pure fun and destruction  Felt like a kid again, and only shot at 15+ m, not with bad results. Is there something between m6 and m8 hex nuts? I can find them dirt cheap, for 1 euro I get around 75  Now that I think about it, they could become my main ammo, as I am poor at the moment. Would they be good for target shooting?


Nothing wrong shooting M8 hex nuts, I have done it a lot. M8 works well to 15-18 meters (depends about bandset), weight is 4,5 grams so little heavier than 9,5 mm steel ball

All kinds of steel balls are much more expensive than hex nuts here in Finland so only choice here is order from Kugel-Willie.


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## SkullT

BushpotChef said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, my stubborness gave way to logic. I now shoot exxlusively with a fixed anchor point, and I am doing much much better.
> The difference is night and day guys, but I feel I just lost a battle, even though I hit way more consistently
> 
> 
> 
> I was wondering when you'd give in lol. IMHO there's no reason anyone can give me why a fixed anchor isn't the way to go. It's not to say some shooters aren't excellent with a floating anchor, but if you're after pure consistency logic would dictate you develop your technique accordingly. Same stance, anchor point, reference point & pouch release shot to shot - that's the key to accuracy. In all honesty if you read any old articles on hunting with a pistol, you'll get some awesome 'cross over' information that can be directly applied to slingshot shooting. I'm going to transfer some from print this afternoon so if you're interested, keep an eye out for that. I'm happy for your continued enthusiasm and progress, you're doing excellent just remember to stay motivated!
> 
> Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I can give you 2 reasons - SPEED & POWER I agree with your logic but the minute you shoot from a fixed anchor point when you are used to using a floating anchor and a long draw you notice the difference especially if you are shooting game and not just targets. Shooting fast and instinctively to get on target is a must when Hunting/Poaching and having plenty of power at extreme distances is a wee bit different to shooting in a 10m target range. I know you already know this but slingshot target shooting is a relatively new thing where I come from. In some of the Chinese videos bird shooting, they are fast and accurate and I am guessing for the most part they are using 2040 looped tubes and maybe 8mm or 9.5 steel. That's not to say you don't have target shooters who shoot from a fixed anchor point and can jump straight to shooting game and vice-versa but speed in acquiring the target and power over a greater distance than 20m can be the difference between success or failure. I think it comes down to what kind of shooting you really enjoy hunting/poaching or target shooting and what compromise you are prepared to make shooting between the two.


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## wbrazell

How true. All you have said apply to this sport as well as archery. Lots and lots of consistent practice.


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## BushpotChef

A totally cohesive and valid set of points to counter my point of view. This is why I love this forum, just clean exchanges no attacking others views. I agree with you on something and then I'll cover why it still doesn't sway me in the other direction. Power is always going to be superior, that much is clear more elastic = more juice. However I would contend that while hunting I don't usually find myself at extreme distances, but it can (& does) absolutely happen so I hear you there. The longest shots I'm taking are into tree tops usually, at about 30 to 60 ft. up. These near vertical shots I find to be very difficult when using a long draw, especially in the woods where you can find yourself in a tight spot. Think of it like using a long bow versus a recurve bow in tight brush, you've just got more room to maneuver. I should add that when I shoot instinctive I use a long draw and I do hunt some small pests in that way.

I'm not against it in any way, but when I teach someone to shoot and if someone asks how I recommend you set up for success? TTF, short draw, tapered bands or looped tubes, pinch grip...

...& let's get that pill moving 240+ fps! 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## SkullT

I agree that newbies have got to start somewhere and a fixed anchor is the way to go at least to get some lead/steel down range but I believe there's a danger of becoming over-dependent on one technique or style of shooting to the exception of all others. Take target acquisition in a woodland it's purely random and there are so many variables especially if you are shooting at game that decides to run away or just fly off when you are sighting up and often if you have to think about it, you've already missed your opportunity. Then there's shooting at speed over distance where any hesitation or drop in power is crucial to your success or failure. Not so long ago I hit a Duck which looked to me to be the perfect shot, right in the head, it looked and sounded spot on but the bloody thing managed to fly off. I could hardly believe it but I've had the same thing happen with rabbits and pheasants and that's with me putting out a lot of power down range, the point being is that sometimes accuracy is not enough without power although, I think if I'd been shooting lead and not steel it would have been a different story.


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## skropi

The first two targets I hit almost every time, the pink one is challenging, but I do manage to hit it. The damned bottle cap though...I always miss it very narrowly, when I miss, but I am not hitting it often, with consistency or confidence  
I know, I know, I need more practice... Today I hit it 2/2 and stopped shooting to enjoy my morning coffee  Then again, NO consistency  I always shoot from around 11-12 meters by the way.


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> 1524551727503722140129.jpg
> The first two targets I hit almost every time, the pink one is challenging, but I do manage to hit it. The damned bottle cap though...I always miss it very narrowly, when I miss, but I am not hitting it often, with consistency or confidence
> I know, I know, I need more practice... Today I hit it 2/2 and stopped shooting to enjoy my morning coffee  Then again, NO consistency  I always shoot from around 11-12 meters by the way.


Try to pick a target size that you can hit maybe 6 - 8 times out of 10 consistently to challenge not only your accuracy but your consistency. When you do miss you should miss small and then make a minor adjustment to get yourself back on target. I prefer plinking in the field at random targets over variable distances because I find it more challenging and enjoyable but if bashing it out on a target range is your thing then that's what I would do. :bonk:


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## skropi

Skull, I bought hex nuts for the reason you mentioned, shooting at random! I do shoot random targets too, following your advice, and it is very relaxing


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## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> Skull, I bought hex nuts for the reason you mentioned, shooting at random! I do shoot random targets too, following your advice, and it is very relaxing


Oh yeah, busting random trash on a walk down the tracks with my headphones in listening to Aerosmith... Zen stuff, man. 

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

I would be listening to some heavy metal personaly, but I get your point


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## skropi

Ok guys, today I tried somewhat stronger bands, tbg 21/21mm, instead of my usual 20/15. What can I say, I think I am a weakling. The deaw seemed too heavy, and I couldnt steady my arms well. Needless to say, my aim suffered. I did shoot all morning to get stronger, and my fingers are killing me. Is it normal for such, seemingly weak bands, to be so above me, or am I just used too much to 20/15?
I changed the bands to my usual taper, just for a few last shots, and apart from some shots to adjust myself, my aim and steadiness did return.
How the heck am I supposed to shoot heavier ammo if I cant be comfortable with a 20/20 straight cut tbg? I dont want to shoot bb's all my life


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## Brook

Obviously we're all different but 20mm tbg is the lightest draw I use, do you think that you may have over worked your arm/wrist/pinch and are not at full strength?


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## skropi

Hmmm, it is a possibility, because when I started shooting, 25/20 seemed ok. Maybe I should take a day off shooting, or shoot a bit less. When I think about it, I weigh around 98 kg, so it shouldnt be strength related, hmmmmmmm.


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## Jolly Roger

Time to take a day of rest and give that arm a break. Genesis 2:2 Exodus 35:2 and the list goes on and on.


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## skropi

Lol JR, you are right. I found out that it is both arms hurting, and the whole of them, biceps, forarms, fingers etc, lol.
Who would have thought that slingshot shooting could get so physical.


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> Lol JR, you are right. I found out that it is both arms hurting, and the whole of them, biceps, forarms, fingers etc, lol.
> Who would have thought that slingshot shooting could get so physical.


How long does it take you to make a shot? And have you tried changing your technique? When I shoot my draw arm is almost in position straight from the off and I point the sling hand forward to its furthest extent to max out the tubes. I only pause slightly to acquire the target and let fly... If you are stanting there for any length of time at full stretch trying to sight up you are going to feel it on your arms and fingers on the pouch. You might need to work on a more dynamic and natural style of shooting to take the strain off your arms and hands.


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## skropi

SkullT, I plead guilty on all accounts. It does take me long to line up everything, mainly to steady my left hand. That probably works against me, as the more my arm is under tension, the more it drifts. How long should I spend aiming do you think?


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## Brook

Check this out mate Dan got some excellent vids????


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## skropi

Comprehensive video. I will sure put those ideas in effect next time I shoot. 
Oh, btw I killed my first sparrow yesterday. Little bugger stood at around 14 meters, and I shot a m8 hex nut. Too far away, ammo that I am not familiar with, bands that I am not familiar with, little birdie that stays in one place for 4 seconds max. Yep, I didnt expect to hit it, I just drew quickly, let muscle memory take care of band alignment, let go, and....THUMP... I feel so sorry for the little bird...I sent it to the Sparrow All-Father, and it really was an accident. I dont kill sparrows, I really like them. Pigeons are another matter altogether though.


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## skropi

Followed Skull's advice combined with the advice in the video. 5 shots, 2 on big target, 3 on small, 4 hits, 100% on big one, 2/3 on small. 
Thats the way to shoot, fast and deadly. In fear that it was beginner's luck, I stopped shooting for today. I am using my success as an excuse to get some, much needed rest.


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## rosco

That is a most excellent vid Mr Brooks. I saw it some time ago and it was instrumental in me gaining a degree of competency. Like your spinners Skropi.


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## skropi

Thanks rosco. I enjoy making targets as much as I enjoy shooting. Next step will be to build a proper catch box, this is a repurposed dog house


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## rosco

Barrels are good. Just got mine up and running in a crude form at the moment and thankful to be getting my ammo back, but I have some ideas for it that may wind up being either totally ridiculous and fun or really really stupid. Targets by their nature seem to lend themselves to that kinda thinking.

????


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## SkullT

skropi said:


> SkullT, I plead guilty on all accounts. It does take me long to line up everything, mainly to steady my left hand. That probably works against me, as the more my arm is under tension, the more it drifts. How long should I spend aiming do you think?


If you are struggling to steady your left hand and you are taking a long time to line everything up your technique is probably way out as is your shooting setup... Some guys can hold a steady position for a length of time to shoot accurately but they are usually using knicker elastic and BBs to get on target and their setup is stripped down to the bare bones to be as light a draw as possible with often a Kangaroo skin pouch or its equivalent. It takes very little effort to draw, sight up on target and shoot. If you are a big powerful guy with a mechanical shooting technique you can get away with a lot more when it comes to band strength or holding your sling on target with very little effort.

Your technique should be such that you are almost on target when finding your sweet spot on your bands/tubes coming to anchor. Then it's just a split second or two fine tuning upon your release of the pouch. It should be almost rhythmic with a minimum amount of effort expended on each shot. It sounds to me like you have a lot of fat to trim out of your technique and maybe you have a few changes to make to your shooting setup. Instead of trying to shoot like some other guy and how he shoots, take a day or two just doing what feels right to you with no preconceived idea of how you think it is supposed to be done just let it flow... you might surprise yourself.


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## skropi

SkullT, your advice was invaluable. I managed to progress a lot, just in two days because of it. Before yesterday I put to practice your advice. It wasnt bad, but not good either. Yesterday I could hardly hit my big target, everything went right, and it was my anchor point at fault. Today........well, today the two-days practice paid off mate. I hit the small target, 3cm diameter, more consistently than I ever hit the 6cm diameter one. Its like everything clicked together, anchor point, hold and release, aiming and timing, everything working together. I still have a long way to go, my first target, to be consistent with a small target is achieved (I hit a 3cm circle about 50-60% of the time from 10-11m). But I do still try to find the best way to position my pouch fingers, body position for stability, and a myriad other things, like pouch stiffness, attachment methods, speed shooting etc etc. 
Right now I feel like this thread served its purpose. The journey hasnt ended, in fact it has just begun, as I know that now comes the hardest part of all, surpassing my mediocre level and actually becoming good. 
I thank you all for your advice and offer for help guys, without you I would not be so much into shooting, and certainly I would have never reached the level I have, even if it is a small one compared to what others have achieved.
Maybe I will update this thread in the future, but most probably I will just ask more specicic queries, in more specific threads. 
Love you all guys!


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## rosco

I learnt heaps from it too Skropi. I would place myself well below your good self in ability, but I'm not unhappy about that, just time poor and love my plinking, frame building and generally messing about.

Good to get a myriad of perspectives and compare and contrast. When I settle down to make a serious study of target shooting I'll come back to this.

Best wishes and χαιρετισμούς


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## skropi

I hear you rosco. I too mess around much. It is just that I like all aspects of the hobby, not just shooting.
What I found is that if someone listens truthfuly to all the advice offered, there is no way not to improve. All thatis needed is an open mind. 
And something that I think helped me. It is better to shoot few shots that are well executed, than a lot in a hurry/without thought. I think thatbis what also helped me a lot.


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## skropi

I didn't expect it, but here is an update again. 
I've got a problem guys. I start a shooting session and everything goes well, I am accurate and consistent etc etc. Then after a few hours, I always hit much to the right, missing the target, even though it seems I shoot exactly the same as before. This happened a lot lately, and I really can't understand why. When I am in the "miss to the right" mood, I can't seem to get over it, hardly managing to find my center after a lot of trying. .I am going crazy here.


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## MOJAVE MO

Sir,
As a old-newbie here on this forum, and as a lifetime marksman I see something, and have a couple of suggestions for your plight:
For the serious part of your training use one target. Right now your eye sees one target, your brain sees them all.
I suspect you are also reminding yourself that you are shooting in a box.
To get past this reality your total focus must be on hitting the spot right behind your target. To increase that view in your minds eye then sit a chair in front of your catch box about 8 feet away. Turn out the lights but have a small light or laser pointer aimed at the target. Burn that dot into your inner brain. Repeat for 7 days 15 mins per session.
Shooting: Take your best sling and 12 rounds only. No more than 12. Repeat drill until you own those twelve shots at ANY place you can overlay that little glowing dot that is not connecting between your eyes, brain, and your hold and release. I've got a couple of other drills that make sense to me, but I'm holding back for when I make a bid for The Worlds.


skropi said:


> I didn't expect it, but here is an update again.
> I've got a problem guys. I start a shooting session and everything goes well, I am accurate and consistent etc etc. Then after a few hours, I always hit much to the right, missing the target, even though it seems I shoot exactly the same as before. This happened a lot lately, and I really can't understand why. When I am in the "miss to the right" mood, I can't seem to get over it, hardly managing to find my center after a lot of trying. .I am going crazy here.


Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## skropi

Ok, I've discovered that my anchor point is limiting me, meaning I couldn't raise it to compensate for narrower forks or for whatever other reason. So I changed it, by necessity also twisting the pouch 90°.... As you've guessed, I am almost at square one again. One good thing that came out is that now I no longer have "right-left" inconsistencies, but only on the vertical axis. 
Aaaaaah, this will take longer than expected


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## skropi

Oh, and a big thanks to o MJ for pointing out that an anchor point on a hard facial feature is not ideal. That's what I changed really.


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## Ordo

skropi: Are you stretching enough? I ask you because I play golf and if I do not stretch, problems arise: misses, injuries, pains, etc.
After some months shooting slingshots I can see the real need of stretching. Beware! Damned tendonitis is always around the corner!


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## KawKan

skropi said:


> I didn't expect it, but here is an update again.
> I've got a problem guys. I start a shooting session and everything goes well, I am accurate and consistent etc etc. Then after a few hours, I always hit much to the right, missing the target, even though it seems I shoot exactly the same as before. This happened a lot lately, and I really can't understand why. When I am in the "miss to the right" mood, I can't seem to get over it, hardly managing to find my center after a lot of trying. .I am going crazy here.


Dude, you must be the Greek God of Persistence!

I love your tenacity, but you may be working too hard.

"Then after a few hours, I always hit much to the right," raises a flag for me. .

Try to shorten your shooting sessions, or break them into smaller chunks.

Pop the top on a Volkan, or pour a glass of Retsina or Agiorgitiko.

As an illustrious sage has proclaimed: "No hurries, no worries in slingshot world!"


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## rosco

While I love your work ethic Skropi (want a job?), perhaps your single mindedness and marathon sessions are your Achilles heel?
I say this because work, family, crap weather and short daylight hours has constrained my shooting over these last weeks. Found a hole in the day yesterday, so resumed my program expecting the worst, but instead I was nailing a 25mm paracord monkey fist from 10m like I've never done before. Found some ridiculously good form which surprised me.

Think the prolonged break did me a power of good. Btw I use a 90 pouch twist with my ott and don't hook to a firm face anchor anymore and I practice dry runs at night in a comfy chair lining up targets on zombie tv. I'm quite good at knocking the snot out of a news presenter. Hope the new glasses are panning out for you too.


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## skropi

I am not stretching Ordo, but I will from now on. Thx for the advice.

Kawkan, I can't end a shooting session if I have less than 4-5 successful shots. Moreover, I thought I was good and well, and then a frame with less fork width came to my possession, and I had to redesign my shooting approach. I am still not happy with the way I shoot bybthe way. I don't like having to twist the pouch, but I can't get correct elevation otherwise, no idea why. With the scorpion I shoot too high by using the corner of my mouth. 
Next step, if it doesn't work out this way, will unfortunately be a floating anchor. I wanted to avoid it, but it has the best potential for elevation adjustments. Ummmm, maybe spend tomorrow with a floating anchor....? I really want to avoid it though :/


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## skropi

The glasses make a world of difference, first of all sizes now actually see the target. Secondly, what I was seeing before, was misplaced, now I see perfectly well, except for my dominant eye, they didn't make the glass well, I will have it remade. I do see much better though.


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## skropi

Guys, as of today, I am shooting for around 2 months. I went from floating anchor to fixed, then changed my anchor point and started twisting the pouch.
My problem was that although I was becoming better and better, I never shot well from the get go, I had to shot many adjustment shots, and get warmed up. Then I was shooting decently, but still, the time came when I would shoot like crap again. 
I tried everything, some things worked, but the main problems largely remained. Then a new catty arrived, the ms hunter. Because of Tom's challenge I couldn't shoot it, but I cheated a bit and took 10-15 shots, just to see how it feels. As expected it shot way too high, because of the narrower forks. 
It was then that it dawned on me that with current anchor point, thumbnail directly below the cheekbone, I would have no way to raise it so as to compensate.
Two options now presented themselves. A floating anchor, or a complete redesign of my fixed anchor point.
I watched some videos, mainly Nathan's, and naturally I tried to anchor on the corner of my mouth. For me it doesn't work at all. With the wide forks of the scorpion, and still I went too high. So I needed to find a fixed anchor point that although fixed, wouldn't be tied and rigid on a hard bone structure, but flexible enough so as to be raised or lowered as needed (raised mostly, as my mouth corner shoots everything way high).
So, with the corner of my mouth as a starting point, I yet again reached my cheekbone. But this time with a different approach, so in order to have the flexibility I needed, a 90° pouch twist became mandatory. 
I wanted to avoid the twist, as I don't like introducing variables, but it was the only way.
After some arduous days, I nailed down the new anchor point. I am no better than before yet, but the way I now shoot gave me some important benefits. I no longer need warm up, and I no longer veer wildly to the right or left inexplicably. I am way more consistent. Of course I also got my glasses. I had astigmatism, and I wasn't aware of it. 
Anyway, I thought that two months would be enough, but I never took into account a possible regression due to technique changes.
Let's see how it goes now, right?


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## M.J

"Thought two months would be enough " for what? 
It usually takes a couple years to become a genuinely capable shooter, able to reliably hit targets of various sizes at distances from at your feet to 30 meters. 
I've seen a couple guys become pretty good in less time but they both practiced relentlessly at all distances with one setup. And they were very young, so they didn't know to not be good at something 
Usually when people go at it the way you are, chasing setups in order to become "good" in as short a time as possible, they burn out and move on to a hobby that's easier to master.


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## skropi

MJ, without your advice, I wouldn't even be at whatever level I am  And I am somewhere, at least I have an understanding of what I am doing. Yes, you are right, it's tough to be really consistent, but a systematic approach, along with the invaluable advice I am getting here....and you have the recipe of success  
Seriously MJ, the only variable I change as long as setup is concerned, is that I try to lighten draw weight, I keep the frame the same. 
But yeah, now I feel much better, I really thought I should be much better than I already am lol. Thx for putting my feet on the ground again MJ


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## M.J

Good luck to you!
I enjoy your posts about this topic, they make me really analyze what I think about slingshot shooting.


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## Samurai Samoht

I always enjoy catching up on this thread! Its great to see so much good advice and attention to detail!


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## Tag

I have had to learn not to judge myself against others. I sent this quote to someone who is just graduating from high school” when you look in the mirror That’s your biggest competition “ I don’t know who wrote it, just passing it on. Without MJ, I would have never got started off on the right foot. Your post are awesome Skrpoi.


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## skropi

What you said is really important Tag. I do compete against myself. The reason for my frustrations was my inability to be consistent. I shot fairly well, and after an hour I would shoot like crap. 
Right now, with my different hold and anchor point, with my glasses correcting my astigmatism, with all the advice I got, I shoot better, and by better I mean that when I miss, it's not a mystery, I almost always know why I missed, or why I hit, and that is, I believe, the most important aspect of all shooting. Knowing that you did something wrong and not living in a happy oblivion  
There is not a chance in the world I would be where I am, even if I am still a newbie, without the help I got here.


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## Samurai Samoht

skropi said:


> What you said is really important Tag. I do compete against myself. The reason for my frustrations was my inability to be consistent. I shot fairly well, and after an hour I would shoot like crap.
> Right now, with my different hold and anchor point, with my glasses correcting my astigmatism, with all the advice I got, I shoot better, and by better I mean that when I miss, it's not a mystery, I almost always know why I missed, or why I hit, and that is, I believe, the most important aspect of all shooting. Knowing that you did something wrong and not living in a happy oblivion
> There is not a chance in the world I would be where I am, even if I am still a newbie, without the help I got here.


I don't know if this will help when shooting the MS Hunter but when I raised my floating anchor point (due to the narrower frame as you said) I used the bottom of my safety glasses as the reference. The glasses are always in the same place so it offered an extra element of consistency for me.


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## skropi

SamuraiSamoht said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you said is really important Tag. I do compete against myself. The reason for my frustrations was my inability to be consistent. I shot fairly well, and after an hour I would shoot like crap.
> Right now, with my different hold and anchor point, with my glasses correcting my astigmatism, with all the advice I got, I shoot better, and by better I mean that when I miss, it's not a mystery, I almost always know why I missed, or why I hit, and that is, I believe, the most important aspect of all shooting. Knowing that you did something wrong and not living in a happy oblivion
> There is not a chance in the world I would be where I am, even if I am still a newbie, without the help I got here.
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know if this will help when shooting the MS Hunter but when I raised my floating anchor point (due to the narrower frame as you said) I used the bottom of my safety glasses as the reference. The glasses are always in the same place so it offered an extra element of consistency for me.
Click to expand...

It's scorpion time till 2nd of June mate  When the time comes, it will be ms hunter time, and probably the hunter time will not end, because in the few shots I've taken with it, it was way easier to find the target in the horizontal axis, in fact I can't miss it with it. I think that aligning the line in the band in the dimp, makes it foolproof. Just a few more days!


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## skropi

Guys it's official. Finally, after two months of tears, blood and frustration, I found the way that most suits me to shoot. The adjustment shots today were less than 6, not 50 like before, and they were not wild misses, but close enough to really be considered "warm up". 
So, I finally reached the point that I can really start practicing in earnest. I am.a bit afraid to be frank, and stomach has that empty feeling, like the first day of school. I think I will faint if I don't eat something.


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## 3danman

M.J said:


> "Thought two months would be enough " for what?
> It usually takes a couple years to become a genuinely capable shooter, able to reliably hit targets of various sizes at distances from at your feet to 30 meters.
> I've seen a couple guys become pretty good in less time but they both practiced relentlessly at all distances with one setup. And they were very young, so they didn't know to not be good at something
> Usually when people go at it the way you are, chasing setups in order to become "good" in as short a time as possible, they burn out and move on to a hobby that's easier to master.


Skropi mentioned some advice you gave about anchor points... Could you elaborate on that, or point me in the direction of any advice you've posted previously about "hard" anchor points? Thanks!


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## M.J

I think I talked about it some in the "4 week mono-sling challenge" post.
Basically, I think that cramming your hand into your face throws off both the pouch hold and the release. People do this either because they're coming from an archery background and it's habit or in the name of "consistency ".
Anything can become consistent if you practice enough, even full butterfly. Focusing on how you're holding the pouch and on a clean release is time much better spent then only thinking about putting your thumb on the corner of your mouth or whatever. 
If you release poorly you've gained no consistency, even if you're doing everything else the same.
The same goes for frame referencing and "putting the dot on the target". If you're only focused on one hand at a time you'll never become proficient. Slingshot shooting is very two-handed and if I had to choose I'd say the pouch hand is more important to accuracy. 
Hope this helps!


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## skropi

Yep, the pouch hand is what I am focusing on right now. I have to say that it's much harder. 
I think that what MJ means is that we aspiring shooters cannot focus on everything at once. That's why it's more important to focus first on release. 
I find myself often paying not enough attention to the release, and that's what I am correcting.


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## 3danman

M.J said:


> I think I talked about it some in the "4 week mono-sling challenge" post.
> Basically, I think that cramming your hand into your face throws off both the pouch hold and the release. People do this either because they're coming from an archery background and it's habit or in the name of "consistency ".
> Anything can become consistent if you practice enough, even full butterfly. Focusing on how you're holding the pouch and on a clean release is time much better spent then only thinking about putting your thumb on the corner of your mouth or whatever.
> If you release poorly you've gained no consistency, even if you're doing everything else the same.
> The same goes for frame referencing and "putting the dot on the target". If you're only focused on one hand at a time you'll never become proficient. Slingshot shooting is very two-handed and if I had to choose I'd say the pouch hand is more important to accuracy.
> Hope this helps!


Thank you. I was curious because I anchor using my index knuckle (closest to palm) on the tragus (had to look that up) of my ear, allowing my fingers to move freely, so what you're describing doesn't seem to bother my shooting. It is an interesting point though, and I wonder if shooters with their hand crammed into their face (Gamekeeper John comes to mind) have compensated for this in acquiring their accuracy.


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## NoGuarantees

The two year reference to becoming a good shot is very true in my experience. When shooting small bore as a young man, three position improved steadily for two years and then only very gradual and minute improvements thereafter, but they were still steady improvements. I expect slingshot shooting to be similar, so do not get discouraged.....just practice with a certain amount of concentration as you are doing and you are going to do great in the long run!


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## skropi

I've said too many times that there will be no updates, that was way too arrogant on my part and I apologise. 
I managed to reach a somewhat good level, hitting many times, but having lots of inconsistencies. Then I changed my anchor point so as to make it more flexible for different frames. THEN I changed it again, because I found out the second anchor point was not as flexible as I thought, and now I am trying to make another work. What I've found from all those changes, is what MJ already mentioned. Foremost is a good and consistent draw, the anchor or lack of it, should accommodate the draw, and not vice versa.
Good days ahead for us beginners


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## Tag

here is what happens to me when I’m missing the target consistently, lets say just to the left. The first thing I do is move my whole body slightly to the left if that doesn’t work, then I consciously check my release to see if I’m not releasing the ammo smoothly. When I’m shooting consistent, sometimes the ammo for lack of better description surprises me when it leaves the pouch. In fact my hand is still at my anchor point, which is a good thing.


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## Tag

Skropi, I want to thank you for starting this post there will always be someone that is just starting out, that will appreciate this information. If the fantastic members of this Forum help to get them on the right track, the the Forum has a potential new member. I know of no sport that people do not have coaches to help them perfect their performance.


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## Jolly Roger

Tag is correct. Not only are the comments here interesting and helpful to some of us but will continue to be for years to come as others join the forum and can search for this information on improving their slingshot shooting skills.


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## skropi

Yeah guys, that's the main reason I wanted this thread, to be helpful to anyone starting out. 
Another thing I noticed today. I changed my bands, and out on some light ones, much lighter than the ones I am shooting all this days. My finger doesn't ache and I can shoot non stop, it's like a video game, and another thing I noticed, I became much more consistent. Even without paying much attention, I just shoot well.... What the heck guys? How is that even possible?


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## skropi

Now that I managed to find the target with the light bands, I of course changed back to the heavier ones....and I still find the target. I think the light bands helped me find the correct body position/draw/release. In any case, this gzk stuff is too stiff, theraband gold is like butter in comparison.


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## Tag

I hope this hasn't been suggested before, I'm trying not to repeat things already pointed out. I'm thinking theses clamps would be a good resistance excercise.


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## skropi

Yesterday I took the day off and didn't shoot a single shot to allow my finger and elbow to heal (didn't mention my elbow because you would all yell to mention stop shooting). Of course I am not healed, but I am tiny bit better, and I also took another approach today. First of all I shoot the way I know I am accurate, meaning no more meaningless shots. I am also shooting less, taking 3-4 shots, then resting. I find that taking less shots, in a concentrated manner, is less tiring and a better approach overall, at least until I heal properly.
I also moved to 13 meters, as I find that by going farther, I can better see and judge how much I miss. If I had the space I would go for 15-20 meters, but that would mean setting up my catchbox outside my balcony, and I like my comfort  Another reason is I can't really use a much heavier draw right now, and by going to 20 meters I would have to get my hands a bit heavier.


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## skropi

I have to thank Kalevala and SkullT for the advice of shooting farther than 10 meters. It's really impressive how bigger a 3 cm target seems when you move to 10m again. Shooting from far away definitely improves hand stability, and I am sure that it's an integral part of improving, as long as the poa and poi remain the same of course. Which isn't a big deal, as one can simply use a bit heavier bands.


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## Tag

This works for me If I find my shots are consistently off, 9 times out of 10 I’m dropping my release hand much too quickly. If I release the ammo, and do not move my release hand until the ammo hits the catch box, it helps tremendously. I was going to say when the ammo hits the target, but I know Devils Son In Law is out there just waiting for me to slip up


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## skropi

I was pondering whether to try a floating anchor, but I resisted the urge. I will give my current way of shooting a few months before altering anything. There's no quick way to success, so why try and force things? 
Anyway, I did shoot with a floating anchor/extended draw, and guys....those 10cm of added draw length........give.....so much.....power.... I mean, I was not able to see the projectile at all in flight, it was a dead straight line from 13 meters, and possibly it would be the same from 15 too. I managed to make corrections based on the part of the t shirt that was moving when hit. I actually found it WAY easier to avoid flyers with a floating anchor, I got none in fact, and I think it is due to the easiness of having a straight pouch and clean release because the pouch hand is in the air. Is it possible that some people may be better off with a floating anchor? I don't think that a floating anchor may be more accurate, then again, I did manage to have 0 flyers... Not that I was more accurate, but the misses were all very close. It doesn't make much sense to me.


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## skropi

And I just got my first hit from 13m with the floating anchor, 3cm target. I am confused to say the least. I shouldn't be even near the target with a different technique I haven't practiced. Not that I am accurate, I am certainly not. But I am so close, so easily, that it really makes me think... Why aren't slingshots like guns? With guns I never had to think much about anything. It came naturally to me, aim, hold it properly, hit the target. With slingshots........


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## skropi

Ok, I decided to insist on a fixed anchor, so as not to mix everything up so early.
Those last 2 days I am not hitting often, I shoot a 3cm spinner from 13 meters. BUT!!! I am not getting frustrated, 90% of my shots go very near the target, many just a bit low or high, some a bit to the left or right, but always very very near so as to be considered near hits. 
That is the first milestone I had set. No matter if I hit or not, at least to send my shots consistently near the target. I am continuously improving on important aspects of shooting. The main thing I managed to get right was pouch hold and a consistent head tilt (almost consistent to be frank, but good enough for now). 
My last 3 shots today were from 10 meters and I got 3 hits. The reason? I stopped raising my elbow to much, instead keeping it roughly in line with the pouch. That was just 3 shots, so I don't know if that's the reason I hit 3/3, but I suspect it is helping a lot.
Aaaaaah, let's see what tomorrow brings


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## M.J

I'm right there with you!
I was trying a new frameless setup yesterday using flats and an earlobe anchor. The shots were very erratic with many unexplained flyers. No matter how much I concentrated and tried to apply the fundamentals I could not get it under control.
I was about to give up on it until I looked at my form in a mirror. My hands were not at all lined up and the degree that I was turning the pouch was all wrong. I was trying to fit the shooting setup into a shooting form, instead of adapting to get the most out of the setup.
I went back out this morning and used a floating anchor, concentrating on keeping the hands, bands, ammo, and target all in a line. Accuracy was much better and stray shots (missed by more than an inch or so) were eliminated.


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## keqi

Study


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## skropi

MJ, what I noticed is that when I let muscle memory take control and don't overthink, I am generally shooting well. I do that when I get tired and tend to miss because of that. 
I am more accurate with a fixed anchor, there's no denying that, bit I have to think much during every shot, while with a floating anchor I shoot quickly with much less thought, and while I don't hot as often, I am not far off target. And there's also the fact that floating anchor is something I haven't practiced much, I shot like that in my first week of shooting only.
I really don't know if for me, personally, a floating anchor would yield better results. But I am doing better and better with a fixed anchor and I am bit loath to change right now.


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## skropi

Ooooookay. So, these last 2-3 days were full of tears and exhaustion. I didn't shot too bad, but not good either. I got many unexplained flyers, or generally misses that were very bad and unexpected.
I did press on, and as a result my index finger is like a formed pouch, yikes. Anyway, I got back from work today, and I took the catty in my hands in fear. Before that I watched an archery competition video, and I imitated their body position. 1st shot dead straight but a bit low. 2nd shot exactly the same. I feel confident and lower the anchor slightly, 3rd shot high to the heavens. Illogical really, but I tried some more. Flyers, misses, too high, too low. I clearly couldn't get a clean release from that position. So I returned to my normal body position/anchor. 7 shots from 10 meters, 5 hits on the 3cm spinner, and the misses were all very very close.
I think that I shot well because I am not tired, so I decided to not shoot anymore today and let my body heal a bit, especially my finger. 
I still don't understand why we miss so much due to fatigue, it seems that I do the exact same thing, obviously I am not though.


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## Brook

Why not try dropping the 30mm target and crush and cut cut some cans for a few days..take the pressure of with a reasonable size target relaxe and let your style come together naturally.????


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## skropi

Well, for now I am limiting myself to 10 shots a day until my finger heals completely. I use this time refining my posture though. I noticed that when at full draw, my elbow is not in line with my shoulder, but rather at an angle, and also my wrist is not inline with my forearm but the hand is pointing upwards. I am talking the drawing arm now. I don't know if these are mistakes, but if they are, I find it hard to alter it. How does everyone else's drawing arm look like when at full draw?


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## Tag

My elbow is level with my hand, and the hand that holds the slingshot.


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## Ordo

Man, you're persistent.


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## skropi

I continue with a practice regime that works very well. I shoot in batches of 3 shots, taking a fourth only if the last two shots were very near hits. 
This approach has some very clear benefits as I see it. First of all it avoids the tendency to shoot well because of a "lucky" disposition. By that I mean that it happens that I find my sweet spot, keep repeating it shot after shot, and I am shooting nice and accurate. Problem with that is that next time I shoot, I find it hard to find that sweet spot. With the three-shot approach I force myself to find that spot continuously, making me more conscious of every single shot, as getting one hit out of three on a 3cm target is quite good if the misses were very close.
The other benefit is that I ensure that my muscles and concentration is always spot on, and fatigue is almost never a problem, so I know that when I miss, it was MY fault and not my muscles not working properly. 
Today I get a hit out of three, or at most out of four shots, with the misses being very close, so I think this way of training works at least for me. 
Of course I use the time between shots to drink coffee, play with my son, peruse the forum etc 
Aaaah, life is good when the shots fly straight and true


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## rosco

Sounds like a good regime to me and one I shall borrow starting tomorrow. I can get all profligate, lose focus and just wind up plugging away mindlessly, hitting nothing and gaining even less.

One in three on a 30 mm bull from 10 m is good shooting in my book Skropi.


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## skropi

After some time shooting light bands with success, I decided to change again to my previous, heavier, set up. 
I was almost unable to draw back... My first shots were much to the right, no matter what I did. Then I put the knowledge gained from shooting the lighter bands into good use, and that is pouch hold importance. I deliberately tweaked the pouch to the opposite direction, and sure enough the shot missed to the left. The heavier bands exaggerate any accidental pouch twist, that's for sure. After some adjustment to the heavier bands, I am back at hitting as before, all thanks to the good foundation I got from the light bands.
The problem is that my current bands are uncomfortable to shoot, but I do like the speed I get, even if it's not so needed for target practice, a flatter trajectory is nice because I don't only shoot 10m, but extend to 20-25m at times. Will I become stronger/accustomed to those heavy bands if I keep shooting them? I'd like to be able to shoot them as easily as I shoot the lighter ones in the future.
Btw, I am at a point now that I don't really need to see the projectile so as to make corrections. When I miss I know what went wrong, wether it was bad form or just a very close miss. So, my frustrations are gone, nice feeling


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## skropi

Ok, I am still unsatisfied. 
I started shooting slingshots a bit less than 3 months ago. In the beginning I was shooting from 3 or so meters, moved to 10 meters, shooting at 6cm targets poorly. Now the only target I use is a 3cm one and a steel can which serves as a way to make some noise. From useless, now I can hit the can 10/10 from 10m if I am not in a hurry, I can shoot a can confidently from even 15-20 meters, especially if I shoot ott, even if I don't hit it often from such distance. The 3cm target I manage to hit 1 out 3 or 1 out of 4 most times, at times hitting it 1 out 2 also. 
If someone told my they made that progress, I would tell them they are doing well, but I just can't seem to be satisfied at all with my shooting. Yes, my groups got small and all, but I still can't hit the 3cm target at least 7/10, far from it... At the beginning I was happy to hit a 1 METER target from 4 meters, now....I just feel the need to hit the smallest possible target from as far away as possible, and even then I don't get satisfaction per second, but consider the hit as a natural occurrence and nothing to get much excited about if it can't be done in every shot... I am practicing more and more of course, and with a better approach every time, but still.


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## Brook

Wow I don't know buddy! Are you not having fun? What are you expecting? If your slamming cans at 20m in 3 months that's awesome progress being unsatisfied this early in the game sounds poo..your doing great enjoy it


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## skropi

I am having immense fun shooting mate! If I didn't have, I wouldn't be shooting  It's just that I am not satisfied with my shooting, nothing to.do with fun! And ok,well, it's not like I am hitting a can 10/10 from 20m, I do hit occasionally, and land my shots near when I miss


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## skropi

I am having immense fun shooting mate! If I didn't have, I wouldn't be shooting  It's just that I am not satisfied with my shooting, nothing to.do with fun! And ok,well, it's not like I am hitting a can 10/10 from 20m, I do hit occasionally, and land my shots near when I miss "most" of the time


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## Jolly Roger

We tend to meet the expectations that we set for ourselves. Higher expectations must equal higher results. Low expectations can surprise us when we exceed them but give us nothing more to strive for when we exceed our low expectations without continually raising the bar or in this case reducing the size of the target and increasing the shooting distance and increasing the number of hits. Continually watching that spinner go round and round is the fun element when those hits become more and more often with less and less effort.

Actually, not progressing and continuing to shoot poorly or even mediocre can take away the fun. I like your idea of shooting 3 rounds at a time. Even a max. of 5 rounds would be suitable. I am in this to increase my daily step count. Shooting in 5 round bursts instead of 20 would mean that I go back and forth to the catch box more often collecting my ammo. I believe that the missing element is charting my progress which would be easier to do with 3 or 5 shot rounds. Easy to keep track of and write down how many hits for each short shoot. It seems that you are going about this in a rather scientific manner so why not add the scientific element of charting your progress for each 3 round session.


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## skropi

Guys, I am shooting the chalice Mr. Brooks sent me........................... I thought I would never be able to aim with it because of the fork angle, and well, I am shooting it better than anything else. When I say better I mean that it's hard to miss with it from any distance. That upper fork sharp tip is the natural aiming point. I am seriously considering stopping shooting it because it's easy mode and I think it will not help me progress if I am hitting everything by just pointing the frame and letting go.


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## skropi

Decision made. I am not shooting it anymore because I want to learn the hard way. A frame that shoots by itself is unnatural. It will be the frame I will take with on vacation though, because it's dead easy to set up and I will impress the German tourists with my good shooting skills with it.


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## skropi

Jolly Roger, the 3 or 5 shot approach is good especially when shooting heavier bands. When I compare two different techniques I shoot more shots, without resting, so as to compare the results when rested, but also while under stress/fatigue. The techniques I want to adopt are those that will work, more or less, under all conditions, and not only when I am in top form.
Another thing I discovered is that shooting with more than one techniques is helping to improve general shooting competency. The basics are all transferable, but being forced to change minor details in my shooting improves overall accuracy. So, Mr. Brooks was right when he proposes I shoot some ott also


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## Brook

Haha the magic of the chalice????it’s an amazing design mate that’s easy to shoot..I’ve made more of these than any other and I still don’t own one, because they’re so cool to gift????


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## skropi

Yep, it's the perfect design for someone starting out. Hold it gangsta, point the tip to the target, and shoot. You know that when you miss, it's not the frame's fault


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## Jolly Roger

Sounds like it should be the one and only....if it was a rifle you wouldn't be setting it aside because it was to accurate.


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## skropi

Then again, where's the magic in rifle shooting? I had a G3 A4 7.62, and when we wanted a challenge we were shooting at 400 meters or more (when I was in the army. We can't own such weapons here in Greece, unfortunately). But the satisfaction of hitting something at 15 meters with a catty........can't really be replicated by another shooting hobby. Maybe pistol, but still it's way easier than catties. But yeah, shootind an old American 0.45 colt was rewarding too, to be frank, even though I hated that pistol.


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## skropi

Sometimes I think that life would be much easier if I didn't know there were targets smaller than a tin can lol


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## skropi

Today it's 9.5mm steel day. Moving down from 10mm as I can find 9.5 for almost half the price of 10mm. Even though 9.5 is only marginally smaller, there is a noticeable difference in speed and feeling when holding it. I am equally accurate with both, so, if I find that smaller ammo isn't uncomfortable, I will return to it.


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## skropi

Good morning guys and gals!!!
Today I continue with 9.5mm. Northerner suggested to me before, that even though the difference between 9.5 and 10mm steel is seemingly very small, when you run the numbers the difference is a whopping 14% more weight for the 10mm. In the quest for flat trajectories with as light a draw as possible, it seems that 9.5mm has the clear advantage.
Maybe it's the change of ammo diameter, maybe it's me becoming better, but yesterday and today I am shooting better than ever, more so today. I am now 7 out of 10 on my 3cm spinner from 10m. I know it's not easily repeatable, I am no longer under the illusion that I suddenly learned how to shoot like the top shooters, but the fact that I am conscious of every shot, that I am shooting exactly the same way each shot, that I do at least the basics in every shot, gives me confidence that I am actually improving. 
By the way the first 3 shots went wild to the left and low, but now frustration doesn't settle in anymore,so I went into track again after those 3 shots, and after 50 like a month ago 
All in all its a slow process, but not as slow as some newbies may think. The important thing is to practice a lot, but practice WELL. By that I mean that we need to be conscious of every shot, no matter if we hit the target or not, and we must NOT practice bad habits. 
New shooters that you are reading these lines now, ask for the advice of the forum members here, and FOLLOW it.


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## skropi

Now I wonder how to proceed. I am hitting the 3cm spinner non stop. I even tried one shot at 25 meters at a little bottle, will measure it later, and it was one shot one hit. I did use an m7 hex nut though, to get a flatter trajectory. 
I mean, I am not shooting now, I am sitting and wondering what to do, maybe use today's success to get some rest? Or just plow through as always? Now I have really wish I had some company to shoot together :/


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## skropi

Ok, distance was 22m and the bottle is 4cmx8cm. Still I didn't expect the hit


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## skropi

Long time no see in this thread! As promised, I am updating every time I make progress. 
Well, from 20th of July I didn't get to shoot much, being ill, then vacation, and now again ill. These last 2-3 days I did make some progress. Firstly I got over my doofus phase. Secondly I realised for sure and definitely that ott and ttf are exactly the same in terms of accuracy. I knew that already, but realising it in a definite way is something. And then we get to the gist. I had to shoot these days while having a fever, but that didn't stop me because I was making good steps forward. I happened upon a video from a renowned member here, the only one showing him shooting from behind, and showing the way he flips the frame. I noticed that he doesn't flip it forcefully or purposely, he just lets it go, much like an Olympic archer lets the bow fall forward. 
I thought that I had nothing to lose, and tried it. It's not so easy to do, and I am not still perfect in this technique, but I hit my target in the first shot, my groups got tighter and much more reliable. 
Yep, that was another step forward, I haven't perfected it yet, but I once again have another thing to guide me forward.
In case you are wondering, the video was from no other than the great Treefork. 
Thank you Treefork


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## Samurai Samoht

Thanks for sharing. I like that you are documenting the evolution of your shooting still! Wise to glean finer points of shooting technique by watching someone like Master Treefork!


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## BushpotChef

Good to hear man, yeah treefork has a really fluid style. Dan Ambrosius does too, hes where I got my 3/4 draw from - another very natural style. Worka excellent frameless as well. Glad to hear you kept shooting even when you were sick! Ive found that shooting while I was sick helpd me feel better as it gave me something else to think about and focus on. Keep it up man youre progress is steady.

"Fear not moving slowly - fear only standing still."

Sent from my SM-J320W8 using Tapatalk


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## skropi

Thx guys. This thread also helped me.when I couldn't hit a thing. I read it from the the beginning and managed to find out where potential issues where hiding themselves  
Now the challenge is learning to shoot without the aiming sights of the Chinese frame... With the sights I am very accurate, but air decided to let go of the crutch ( Thanks for making my life difficult MJ  ) and learn how to shoot any slingshot. I just gathered it will be beneficial for my overall shooting.


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## skropi

Another thing I've noticed is that now the steps forward are really small. I don't count the steps backwards from stopping using aiming sights, that is normal, I mean in general. 
What intrigues me the most is that even though I am currently a bit worse with the frame I chose to be my only one (discounting a possible change to the Chalice in the future), the fun and satisfaction I am getting is multiplied tenfold!
If you noticed, I stopped asking questions about aiming etc etc. That means that all the advice I got from everyone was spot on, and the only thing that remains to do is to practice and choose what works and what isn't. 
Good days for my shooting are indeed here


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## skropi

I didn't expect I would have another question, but here it is.
This is happening for the first time since I started shooting and it's very wierd.
Shooting ott and without aiming sights, and I am way more consistent hitting the 3cm spinner than the 5cm one... I mean guys come on, I am happy that I am almost as good without the sights, but only on small targets and cards? I would really like to be able to hit something bigger too and I am serious  
I think it's an aiming issue, but I am not sure, this never happened before. Anyone else had that happen?


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## Samurai Samoht

skropi said:


> I didn't expect I would have another question, but here it is.
> This is happening for the first time since I started shooting and it's very wierd.
> Shooting ott and without aiming sights, and I am way more consistent hitting the 3cm spinner than the 5cm one... I mean guys come on, I am happy that I am almost as good without the sights, but only on small targets and cards? I would really like to be able to hit something bigger too and I am serious
> I think it's an aiming issue, but I am not sure, this never happened before. Anyone else had that happen?


Yep! Strange isn't it?! imo it can be psychological, kinda like paper targets. Sounds rather counterintuitive but I think the smaller target can sometimes mean an automatic increase in focus because the eye/brain zeros in on a smaller surface area rather than us having to concentrate harder to find the center of a larger target. Not that I consider a 5cm target to be particularly large though! Its part of the "aim small, miss small" principle in action I guess. What do you think?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## skropi

SamuraiSamoht said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't expect I would have another question, but here it is.
> This is happening for the first time since I started shooting and it's very wierd.
> Shooting ott and without aiming sights, and I am way more consistent hitting the 3cm spinner than the 5cm one... I mean guys come on, I am happy that I am almost as good without the sights, but only on small targets and cards? I would really like to be able to hit something bigger too and I am serious
> I think it's an aiming issue, but I am not sure, this never happened before. Anyone else had that happen?
> 
> 
> 
> Yep! Strange isn't it?! imo it can be psychological, kinda like paper targets. Sounds rather counterintuitive but I think the smaller target can sometimes mean an automatic increase in focus because the eye/brain zeros in on a smaller surface area rather than us having to concentrate harder to find the center of a larger target. Not that I consider a 5cm target to be particularly large though! Its part of the "aim small, miss small" principle in action I guess. What do you think?
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I think that for some obscure reason I am just aiming wrong when aiming at something larger... I am not used in aiming ott without sights anyway. I am not sure though. It's just strange trying to hit something larger harder than something that's almost half in size :/ I didn't find it particularly difficult to half cut a card even, go figure.


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## skropi

I will change my aiming procedure when aiming large targets and report back Samurai


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## skropi

Reporting back. Issue resolved. Apart from faults in technique, the main issue wws, as suspected, the way I aimed. A problem of perspective, due to me getting used to aiming sights. All is well and good now. 
Oh, another thing. I gave microfiber pouches another try but it's a no go. I just prefer the feel of leather.


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## skropi

Whenever I update this thread is a sign that something bad, and something good happened. 
The bad thing that happened is that I am shooting with a wrong, twisted and mangled pouch hold for more than 2 months. I noticed something off before, but because of getting better and better, I didn't pay attention. 
Now that I got to a point where a 16mm target isn't scary anymore, I tried to polish off, yet again, some random shooting inconsistencies.
I noticed that the pouch in full draw isn't straight, injured fingers is one reason, the other is that I simply got used to drawing wrongly, resulting in this situation. 
Yes, I shoot decently, for an amateur, like this, but I realized I can't take a step forward without correcting it. What made me realise fully this bad habit was me switching hands and drawing with the left. I immediately saw that I draw completely straight with my left hand, grrrrrr. 
Anyway, the good news is that another mistake came to the surface, so it's a matter of time to correct it. Hitting cards means nothing if there are inconsistencies in form, so, time to go forward again.
Btw, guys, correcting a bad habit is extremely difficult, I am almost considering switching hands and to he!! With my dominant eye. Ok, I am not switching, just saying ????


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## Ordo

Muscular memory acts like a folded paper. The crease is irreversible.


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## BushpotChef

Man this thread is huge now lol!

Sent using two thumbs and Tapatalk.


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## skropi

Well, I update it every time there is a change in my shooting! 
Ordo, muscle memory can change, in my case, I shoot like that for 1 month or slightly longer. It is hard but doable. 
I already shoot better.
The point is that one can learn to shoot well in a not so efficient manner, by compensating, resulting in a few flyers here and there, especially when fatigued, but having a proper form reduces the number of bad shots. 
Right now I don't see any flaw in my form, apart from the current one which is under treatment. Already I see a huge difference, but the mental cost trying to draw differently is huge. I don't mind though, this is the reason I stayed with this hobby. It is a challenge through out. 
I would have never thought possible to hang a 16mm target after my first month of shooting, heck, I never thought it possible two weeks ago, and now here I am, struggling to correct bad habits, but able to occasionally hit a very small target.
My journey will end when I will be able to put a 9.5mm bb through a 1mm hole repeatedly guys ????


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## skropi

I need to add that when your accuracy takes a nosedive, it's smart to shoot another frame and see if it improves. I did, and realised after much frustration that my nosedive was the fault of the bands  
Always check and double-check, and don't be bored to re-band, the problem may be a very simple band misalignment


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## ForkLess

Twist and tweak is like car insurance. I just can not see any other way, at least for now.


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## skropi

ForkLess said:


> Twist and tweak is like car insurance. I just can not see any other way, at least for now.


I twist, but don't tweak. At least I don't tweak intentionally ????


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## Tag

Your post are very informative not only to new shooters, but I know I need to be reminded now and then.


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## skropi

My accuracy is going slowly, but steadily, forward. There are some bumps along the road but that's ok. 
So I took a decision today. Tomorrow I will add 14cm to my draw length and practice solely with this extended draw. I have the frame and handset prepared, and the draw weight is 1kg lighter than normal. I noticed some improvements in pouch hold when I have no anchor point and I want to explore this technique after all these months shooting with a fixed anchor point. 
Let's see if I'll keep at it or not


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## skropi

There seems to be no end to the updates in this thread. Every time I think I have everything settled, a new issue arises and a new process to solve it begins.
When I was shooting for around 2 months, I thought it was enough to consider myself settled. MJ then took it upon himself to inform me that 2-3 months of shooting is not even a whole first step. He was right.
Every time my accuracy plateaued, it was because of a bad habit acquired earlier, so another process of finding it out and eliminating it begun.
My main aim was to be consistent, to avoid flyers, to always know exactly why I missed, and now, after changing yet another variable, I am positively many steps closer to achieve my goal.
So, the last thing I did change was my pouch hold. I used to twist 90° because it was more comfortable on my wrist, but that decision was holding me back. Yes, I did manage to become better, hit smaller and smaller targets, even hit (not cut) cards with good consistency, but still, a certain level of uncertainty in my shooting remained.
What I did was take the big decision not to twist the pouch. I managed to make no twist comfortable after watching a video from Mark Seljan, and boy did everything come together! 
Those inconsistencies and uncertainties? Yep, a thing of the past. From day one of switching it up, the benefits of the new technique became apparent. More stable shooting, more consistent pouch hold.
Overall, now, after 6 months of shooting, I am confident I can at last call myself a true beginner, because now I can focus solely on my practice, as my form is at last settled.
Of course there's the extended draw that I need to learn, but that's another matter, the basics are already covered.


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## ash

Sounds like another victory and mirrors my own progress. Longer draw, floating anchor, no twist, more progress.

I broke my 60mm and 50mm targets and haven't bothered to repair them, so now it's just 40mm, 30mm and 18mm-ish targets. I'm only shooting the 40 at the moment and that alone is making a difference.

Knowing why I missed each time has been a new development. With a fixed anchor it was often a total mystery.

Keep up the good work!


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## skropi

ash said:


> Sounds like another victory and mirrors my own progress. Longer draw, floating anchor, no twist, more progress.
> 
> I broke my 60mm and 50mm targets and haven't bothered to repair them, so now it's just 40mm, 30mm and 18mm-ish targets. I'm only shooting the 40 at the moment and that alone is making a difference.
> 
> Knowing why I missed each time has been a new development. With a fixed anchor it was often a total mystery.
> 
> Keep up the good work!


Yep, the extended draw is on the list. It's the way I started to shoot. I am not sure which style I prefer, so I will be practicing my fixed anchor form, and occasionally the extended draw one and see what happens


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## Tag

Thanks for sharing your progress


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## skropi

Oooooook guys, I finally got some 8mm, cut some 0.8 gzk latex to 9mm/6mm, took some shots.
This taper is so light, it's like not drawing, and the result......well, it seems very hard to miss....I mean, the ammo is small, sure, but the draw weight is sooooooo light, that it feels like a video game. It's unreal, and now I understand why the Chinese champion shoots so light bands. I can only imagine how much better this would be with a more suitable, thinner, elastic.
I don't know, it's funny shooting so fast without any effort, hitting without much effort, being able to shoot ALL day without any effort. But....it feels like a game....I am afraid I will get addicted to shooting light bands....After my finger heals completely....will I revert to my usual setup...? ???????????? 
Nothing wrong with light bands and all, but it does feel like cheating....


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## skropi

Something I got told many times, is that practice with light bands and ammo is the way to go to promote good technique.
I chose to ignore this for a long time because of my stubbornness, but now that I've actually tried a light setup, I know those words are true.
Any beginner that happens upon this thread, don't do what I did. Start with the lightest possible band/ammo combination. 8mm steel is light enough.
You can only gain and loose nothing, and you can get the occasional shot with a heavier setup.
It's just so easy to control all the variables when you have a draw weight that a 5 year old could draw easily.


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## BushpotChef

skropi said:


> Something I got told many times, is that practice with light bands and ammo is the way to go to promote good technique.
> I chose to ignore this for a long time because of my stubbornness, but now that I've actually tried a light setup, I know those words are true.
> Any beginner that happens upon this thread, don't do what I did. Start with the lightest possible band/ammo combination. 8mm steel is light enough.
> You can only gain and loose nothing, and you can get the occasional shot with a heavier setup.
> It's just so easy to control all the variables when you have a draw weight that a 5 year old could draw easily.


Any future newbies who discover this thread, heed this man's advice - he speaks the truth. 

Sent using two thumbs and Tapatalk.


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## skropi

Ok, I've come to the conclusion that if I want to take a step forward with my practice, I need to discipline myself and structure my practice sessions in an exact manner. 
The first step was the turn to light bands and ammo, a step I already took.
Now, the next step is simple really. First of all, I will no longer devote all my time shooting fixed anchor. Small ammo has issues when shot from a fixed anchor, while it excels when shot half butterfly and more. 
Another thing is a change in pouch hold. With a setup so light, there's no need to use the middle of the index finger, as no strength is needed. Instead, it's more beneficial to use the thumb pad in conjunction with the tip of the index finger, which offers much more sensitivity.
That's the first setup that will be used in my practice, but not the only one. As I am unsure which style will give me the best results, the second part of my practice will revolve around a fixed anchor point. 
If both styles don't get their fare chance, I will never know which one is the most suited for me.
And now for the actual practice schedule. 
No spinners. Spinners will be used only for warming up, that's it. Shooting will be on paper, 5 sets of 5 shots with each setup, with only a vertical line drawn, as I don't care about elevation yet. My purpose is to see which style will yield the best results on windage over time. Elevation is easier to control, so I will eliminate it as a variable to keep things simple. I will practicing my elevation only during warm up and after the practice, or when I have no time to shoot much. 
I expect that in two months at most, I will have my answer.
Somewhere along all this, 9.5 steel will be slowly reintroduced of course, and I expect I will shoot it better after fiddling with 8mm.


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## skropi

Just to give you a heads up, the first warm up with half butterfly and lighter than light band set, is quite promising. Let's just say that during warm up, with a style I am not familiar with, I as accurate as with a fixed anchor which I practice for 5 months. 
Of course, what's important is consistency, so this is just a preliminary assessment ????


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## skropi

Guys, at last I am improving. The thing with slingshooting is that the variables are just too many. There's no way one can focus on every single one at once. Time is needed to develop each aspect and then combine them all in a nice package.
I believe that the first year of shooting is merely learning the basics, aiming don't shoot for a year yet, but I see that my progress has a definite pattern. 
It was quite easy to start hitting small targets occasionally, then came a time of frustration, then a time of nice consistency, then a plateau, then frustration, and now consistency again. 
In every step, I've learned something new, a new aspect I needed to focus on, and so on till now. 
Let's see where all this goes ☺


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## skropi

There's something to be said about keeping a diary. 
I know I am happy I did. I went through my older posts, both here and in the 4 week mono challenge, and a pattern appeared. 
Before summer I was actually shooting very well. I had my frustrations, yes, but when I was hot, I was very accurate. 
During the summer, till now, I don't get frustrated much, I am way more consistent, but I am also more inaccurate. 
So, I just sat down to see what changed.
First of all I don't shoot ttf anymore but ott. I know that this can't be at fault, as it's the same thing really, so I focused on the other parameters. 
I was shooting wide forks then, namely the Scorpion, and really, when I switched to narrower forks, my top accuracy was never the same. 
Yes, I became better, I refined my technique a lot, but my top performance never reached my previous levels.
The obvious thing to do was to switch to 10cm fork width, and I did. 
Well, yes, the diary was telling the truth. I just find it more comfortable to have a lower anchor point.
I started experimenting with narrower widths because I thought that I wasn't shooting well, it was a mistake, but I don't regret it, as through that, I gained a lot.
Now I know that 10cm is ideal, and to be honest, 10.5cm fork width is better still for me, possibly 11cm would be the best, but I have yet to try it.
Anyway, that's it for now, I hope you enjoy the endeavours of a novice ????


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## skropi

I will keep this short because most was covered in the thread about my ideas on technique.
I now know that wide fork widths are definitely ideal for me. For some reason I find it very hard to shoot low from the day I started shooting with loose aiming. I mean, I shoot 10cm fork widths and I have to anchor as if I was shooting 8.5cm. 
Part of it is head position, I know, but most of it is my damned brain adjusting anyway he likes. In any case it's not affecting my accuracy, just my anchor.
I was on the fence of buying the axiom ocularis, and now that I've got it I find it exceedingly hard to put it down.
This frame helped me understand two things. First, loose aiming or instinctive or intuitive aiming, as I like to call it, is the way we all shoot, more or less. There is a difference between strict aiming of course, but it's much less than I expected. 
So, now I am exploring intuitive shooting, I get hits, and interestingly enough, some techniques I find impossible to incorporate. For example I can't focus on only a small part of the target, instead I focus in all of the target. Floating the pin takes a completely new meaning, because I don't even know where the "pin" is for sure. Still, with all these drastic changes, my accuracy doesn't suffer much, so I expect that I will improve on that front. 
Most probably I will return to strict aiming, but for now I am having fun with intuitive shooting, which has another benefit. It is a great practice for my shooting "feeling" or intuition, and by discarding hard aiming, I can focus solely on form and release.
I am unhappy with my release to be frank, it really sucks, so paying all my attention to it will be the smartest thing for me now.
I expect that the moment I become half decent with intuitive shooting, will be the moment I return to strict aiming, and combine everything in a package. 
But, who knows, I have lots of ground to cover, and so little time.


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## Tag

Your post will definitely help others with their shooting form and accuracy. Since being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, ive completely changed my eating habits. I lost weight the first 3 months p, then leveled off. I started writing everything I ate, even if it was one small bite of something. Whoops I found it wasn’t what I was eating, it was I didn’t recall having it multiple times in one day. A food diary keeps me aware of exactly how much I eat.


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## skropi

Tag said:


> Your post will definitely help others with their shooting form and accuracy. Since being diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, ive completely changed my eating habits. I lost weight the first 3 months p, then leveled off. I started writing everything I ate, even if it was one small bite of something. Whoops I found it wasn't what I was eating, it was I didn't recall having it multiple times in one day. A food diary keeps me aware of exactly how much I eat.


Tag, that's true. A diary is always there to remind us anything we need. Believe it or not, I've forgotten the good results I had when I did the 4 week challenge. I was actually shooting more than well. I remembered, after I read that thread too, that I considered a 5/10 on a 4cm target a total failure! But I did get around 6-8/10 when shooting ttf. After that, my accuracy declined, I did change frames often, and styles too. So, reading it made me remember that it's absolutely my fault and now I am getting back on form, only with a better understanding of the basics.


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## skropi

I have a question which may seem simple, but it really eludes me. 
Supposing someone is practicing for a competition, and supposing that he would need to shoot knock down targets, Spanish style. Taking into consideration that the smallest target is 4cm, is it beneficial practicing solely on a, let's say, 2cm target?
Logic says that if one gets consistent on such a small target, then the larger ones should be easy in comparison, but something deep inside me screams that I got something fundamentally wrong.
Right now the only target on my catch box is a 1/2" bb. Am I heading in the correct direction?


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## skropi

There's an approach I follow lately. When I get "in the zone", and start hitting anything and everything, I STOP shooting. Yep, that's right, I stop for a few minutes, so as to get out of the zone. My reasoning is that in a supposed competition, I will have to always be "on the zone", so I am trying to bring myself on top of my game as early as possible. I don't know if this will work, guys, but thought I'd share.
And yeah, those bigger targets are a challenge for sure. I am making a point of shooting all the targets hanging in my catch box, and now I have good selection of sizes, from 1.7cm to 6cm. Weird thing is that the big target doesn't get the most hits necessarily, but I am improving on that. It is a matter of focus and really paying attention, the mental game of slingshooting is the hardest hurdle to overcome, so I am also trying to be more relaxed when shooting.


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## skropi

The first piece of equipment that I've decided on definitely is pouch size and thickness. It took me almost 7 months guys, this hobby really needs MUCH time. 
So here we are, length 60-63mm, width is not very critical, but preferably between 12 and 15mm. Thickness and stiffness is the most important factor, it HAS to be 1.4mm, and NO less, or else I get the Skropi Finger. Being really stiff is also a requirement. It's not that with those parameters I just don't get the Skropi Finger, I do shoot much more accurately, and I can shoot even heavy bands without issues. 
Phew, just 10000000 more parameters to go!
Ttf or Ott? Straight wrist or bend and feel the frame? 
At this rate, I will decide in 5-6 years minimum ????


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