# How to interpret vertical dispersion?



## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

I'm still having a blast learning to shoot and I believe that I even see some improvement. I may be practicing too much as I have developed a strain/sprain injury at the base of my thumb but that is another topic.

When I shoot at paper, I see that most of my variation shot to shot is vertical, not horizontal. I'd like some help in trying to figure out what that means so that I can try to correct it.

I'm using a gangsta hold on my Scout, and am shooting theraband blue OTT with BBs.

I don't think it is "speed bump" as I rotate when drawing to my anchor point and a "speed bump" on my index finger should send the shot off horizontally (I think).

I'm being careful to center the ammo in the pouch the same way every shot.

Canting the Scout along the vertical axis would cause vertical dispersion, but I've looked at my position in the mirror and I'm pretty sure I'm not canting.

I'm not aware of a release problem or a flinch but I guess those are possible.

I'm stumped. What do you all think?


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

If I understand what you are saying, your shots are missing high or low correct? If your shot hits high raise your anchor point - if it hits low lower your anchor.


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

I don't understand why you are rotating the bands as you draw. I know a lot of shooters do this but I don't think it is necessary. I think it just adds another hurdle to overcome on the road to accuracy.


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## raventree78 (Apr 20, 2016)

If you are not using a consistent anchor point the variety in the length of the band will cause a variation in your velocity. With such light ammo and bands this will be more pronounced. Solution, try a fixed anchor point for a while and see if that helps. Just my $0.02


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> If I understand what you are saying, your shots are missing high or low correct? If your shot hits high raise your anchor point - if it hits low lower your anchor.


Sorry for the confusion. What I'm trying to say is that if I aim with a 6 o'clock hold on the bullseye and shoot 10 shots, the horizontal spread is about an inch while the vertical spread is 3-4 inches.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> I don't understand why you are rotating the bands as you draw. I know a lot of shooters do this but I don't think it is necessary. I think it just adds another hurdle to overcome on the road to accuracy.


I don't remember where I saw it (maybe in a Simple Shot video) but the rotation was suggested as a way to decrease fork hits. I've tried rotation and no rotation and for some reason the rotation feels better. I'll try shooting a group without rotating and see what happens.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

raventree78 said:


> If you are not using a consistent anchor point the variety in the length of the band will cause a variation in your velocity. With such light ammo and bands this will be more pronounced. Solution, try a fixed anchor point for a while and see if that helps. Just my $0.02


Thanks for the thought. Yes, I'm using a fixed anchor point.


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

tm3 said:


> Grandpa Grumpy said:
> 
> 
> > If I understand what you are saying, your shots are missing high or low correct? If your shot hits high raise your anchor point - if it hits low lower your anchor.
> ...


My friend, a new shooter holding groups to 1" X 4" is shooting pretty dang well!

Especially for BBs, according to my experience.

Congratulations.

I suspect your fundamentals are good.

All you need is to keep shooting. Let the sore thumb heal.

Keep being a good coach for yourself.

Narrowing your groups from here, takes little things like breathe control, sling-hand steadiness, consistent pouch release, and repetitions.


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## Java (Mar 26, 2013)

If you're curious if you're holding the slingshot vertically, here's what I did when I first got my Scout. I was shooting heavier bands than I was used to, so I was really worried about fork hits. I tilted the top fork ( the left one, for a right hander) back towards me an inch or so until I could see the "side" of the fork. That flat part that the band would be coming over if I were shooting TTF. Then carefully tilt it forward until the side of the fork Juuuust disappeared. Now it's vertical. You pretty quickly learn so that it comes up right every time.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Hang in there, sounds like you are off to a good start


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

The



tm3 said:


> Grandpa Grumpy said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand why you are rotating the bands as you draw. I know a lot of shooters do this but I don't think it is necessary. I think it just adds another hurdle to overcome on the road to accuracy.
> ...


Rotation of the bands is quite natural when shooting sideways (gangster). The rotation inherently lets the muscles relax as much as possible when at full draw. I instruct sideways shooting and teaching when at the face anchor to turn the palm down which accomplishes the above and helps keep the bands and pouch in a straight line.

As for just the up and down misses; that is a great thing at this time meaning you are doing real good with the horizontal. Therefore, I it appears you are now just having to manage the trickiest part of the elastic element. A tug a tad more or less will can send the shot high or low. Managing this will always be something to pay attention to. Outside temperature has and affect on the elastics and will affect up and down in the shot.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

Oh yeah, and that "sprain" is something to take very seriously as it may indicate you are shooting bands too heavy for now. You can develop trigger finger, I developed something perhaps similar and had to shoot with light band sets and BBs for at least three months. The connective tissue in the hands need to develop more. I heard muscle develops faster than the connective tissue, so be patient to use heavier bands.


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

Rayshot said:


> The
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> ...


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

Rayshot said:


> The
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> ...


I just start out the draw with the thumb on the underside of the pouch. At full draw the thumb is still facing down and the bands have no twist.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Rayshot said:


> Rotation of the bands is quite natural when shooting sideways (gangster). The rotation inherently lets the muscles relax as much as possible when at full draw. I instruct sideways shooting and teaching when at the face anchor to turn the palm down which accomplishes the above and helps keep the bands and pouch in a straight line.
> 
> As for just the up and down misses; that is a great thing at this time meaning you are doing real good with the horizontal. Therefore, I it appears you are now just having to manage the trickiest part of the elastic element. A tug a tad more or less will can send the shot high or low. Managing this will always be something to pay attention to. Outside temperature has and affect on the elastics and will affect up and down in the shot.


Thanks! As far as managing the elastic element, do I try to do something specific or just keep shooting?


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Rayshot said:


> Oh yeah, and that "sprain" is something to take very seriously as it may indicate you are shooting bands too heavy for now. You can develop trigger finger, I developed something perhaps similar and had to shoot with light band sets and BBs for at least three months. The connective tissue in the hands need to develop more. I heard muscle develops faster than the connective tissue, so be patient to use heavier bands.


I developed the sprain/strain shooting with the theraband blue and BBs -- I'm not sure if I can go any lighter. It is right where my thumb meets the wrist and I'm pretty sure that it was a result of the way I was holding the Scout in a "thumb support" hold. I switched to a pinch grip and that seems to help. I'll see how it goes and at some point may want to try one of the more "ergonomic" slingshots that take the thumb support pretty much out of the hold -- I saw one called the "Hammer" and the hand position reminded me of holding a recurve bow ie pushing with the palm and the fingers and thumb are pretty relaxed.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> I just start out the draw with the thumb on the underside of the pouch. At full draw the thumb is still facing down and the bands have no twist.


I had not heard of that method. I'll try it. I started with just pulling straight back. thumbnail facing the sky. When I twist, my thumbnail ends up facing my face. With your draw the thumbnail faces the ground, if I understand it correctly.

The biggest jump in my accuracy was when I added the twist. It was like someone flicked a switch and the BBs started finding the target.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

KawKan said:


> My friend, a new shooter holding groups to 1" X 4" is shooting pretty dang well!
> 
> Especially for BBs, according to my experience.
> 
> ...


Well, don't get too impressed yet -- I didn't tell you how close to the target I was standing!


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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

Does sound like you're doing really well. Only thing I'm wondering, is your length of time in hold reasonably consistent. I know if I hold for too long on target (with my light bands it's easily possible), my vertical impact can vary.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

AKA Forgotten said:


> Does sound like you're doing really well. Only thing I'm wondering, is your length of time in hold reasonably consistent. I know if I hold for too long on target (with my light bands it's easily possible), my vertical impact can vary.


That is a really interesting point because yesterday when I was shooting I started thinking about hold time on the target. When I used to shoot rifles in competition I would get on the bull and try to allow things to "settle" and the wobble get as small as possible before starting the trigger squeeze. In the few videos that I have seen of expert slingshot shooters it has looked to me like they don't hold very long at all on target before releasing, so yesterday I started thinking that maybe I was delaying my release too long. Something else to experiment with!


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## AKA Forgotten (Jan 26, 2019)

tm3 said:


> AKA Forgotten said:
> 
> 
> > Does sound like you're doing really well. Only thing I'm wondering, is your length of time in hold reasonably consistent. I know if I hold for too long on target (with my light bands it's easily possible), my vertical impact can vary.
> ...


I try to shoot like the 10 clay discs in 90 seconds. Up on target, relax into it and fire. Keep the energy in the bands as constant as possible. Hope it helps.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> Rayshot said:
> 
> 
> > The
> ...


Ah Ha. That makes sense. I use that hold when I shoot butterfly.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

tm3 said:


> Rayshot said:
> 
> 
> > Oh yeah, and that "sprain" is something to take very seriously as it may indicate you are shooting bands too heavy for now. You can develop trigger finger, I developed something perhaps similar and had to shoot with light band sets and BBs for at least three months. The connective tissue in the hands need to develop more. I heard muscle develops faster than the connective tissue, so be patient to use heavier bands.
> ...


Interesting. Don't know if the following applies but even with the easiest of tasks the way we hold some part of our body can lead to things like carpel tunnel. The principle I like to keep in mind especially when sharing tips is that like many things when we are new to something, we tend to be more tense, thus an objective is to find a slingshot and or a way to hold things that feels most relaxed.


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## tm3 (Apr 6, 2019)

Rayshot said:


> Interesting. Don't know if the following applies but even with the easiest of tasks the way we hold some part of our body can lead to things like carpel tunnel. The principle I like to keep in mind especially when sharing tips is that like many things when we are new to something, we tend to be more tense, thus an objective is to find a slingshot and or a way to hold things that feels most relaxed.


Yes! Especially as I get older I see new, and often seemingly minor, stresses having a surprisingly large effect. Hopefully the pinch grip will be the solution and if not I'll have to try to find a way to take more of the stress off of the base of the thumb.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

tm3 said:


> Rayshot said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. Don't know if the following applies but even with the easiest of tasks the way we hold some part of our body can lead to things like carpel tunnel. The principle I like to keep in mind especially when sharing tips is that like many things when we are new to something, we tend to be more tense, thus an objective is to find a slingshot and or a way to hold things that feels most relaxed.
> ...


No joke on the age thing!


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## Thwap (Oct 17, 2018)

i agree with raventree. ive been thinking a lot about this, and (especially with chinese tubes, but not limited to)the elongation percentage means everything when you are near max. another 1/2" of draw can make a veeeery significant change in trajectory.


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