# new rotating head design -



## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

saw this new rotating head slingshot on `dealextreme ` . looks well made but overpriced

at $110 . tubes just seem to go up and down vertically but not horizontally.can`t tell if the grip rotates. might be

fun if it was`nt so expensive -----------


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## Sr.Miss Alot (Jul 3, 2015)

I feel sick


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## Byudzai (Aug 31, 2013)

wanders a bit off the "no moving parts" school of thought, but certainly looks like it'd be fun to play with.

also looks like you could do a medical exam with it


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## Sr.Miss Alot (Jul 3, 2015)

A slingshot made to look a girly parts? I'm feeling a little better now.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

It's the German Luger of slingshots..masterfully crafted mechanics that can freeze up tighter than a cat's butt if too much grit gets into it. It appears that tubes, and a limited diameter of tube, only, will work in it, seriously dampening choice of elastics. Considering the quantity of machined parts, it's cheap. Work a couple overtime days and it's paid for. The tube diameter to me looks pretty wimpy...with all the magnum characteristics, it seems like a 20 lb. air gun. This may be strictly for "target/completion" use similar to a super tricked out compound bow with doo dads and gadgets ready for the Olympics which a hunter or back yard archer would laugh at.

But eliminating the X and Y axis errors of holding the frame doesn't "learn" you how to shoot. You still have to learn:

1. pouch pinch consistency

2. pouch hold or anchor point consistency

3. release characteristics consistency

4. non flinch shooting at moment of release..steady as she goes

5. no wobble...hold on target

6. alignments... of the bands or of the forks, of the target, windage/elevation or of something, -consistently- (the key word in accuracy)

7. what ammo and elastic and pouch combination is best...lots and lots of trial/error/documentation/note taking

8. your "eye"..i.e. training your dominant eye to see slight differences in target acquisition and alignments

9. the art of concentration and books have been written on just this subject alone

10 the art of self analysis and books have... " " "

So the slingshot itself actually is of minor importance, it is YOU what is the variable and therefore of the most importance.

But I can see the logic in it...it keeps the bands exactly perpendicular to the target, eliminating X and Y axis cant (slant), that eliminates those two variables for beginners who haven't yet learned to hold a slingshot straight consistently. It would be great for a Parkinson's patient or someone who has erratic movements. You could hold this as cockeyed as you please and the forks stil orient themselves perpendicular to the target which is good. Would I be too brash to say it's over engineered and full of gadgets and mechanics that really are not needed to shoot? The price is high because of all the machining and parts...not much different than the number of parts in say a hand gun it appears to me. There are much simpler rotating head designs with just the fork swivel horizontally as done by our Roger's Fire Ant series.

I made a rotating fork slingshot seeing the merit in keeping the forks constantly perpendicular to the target. I found two caveats.

1. The thing wasn't any more accurate, i.e. I couldn't hit any better with it than any other stationary fork slingshot I had

2. The bands I cut had to be EXACTLY the same width otherwise the fork would cant...the stronger wider band wouldn't pull with the same force as the thinner weaker band and the fork canted...the very thing it was supposed NOT to do. I hand cut TBG bands and not every one is exactly the same width, varying a small fraction of a millimeter but still they are not exactly the same. No matter, they shoot fine, I just have to find the "zero" each band change...not much different if at all but still sometimes a slight difference.

So a rotating fork to me wasn't an advantage and I made it stationary like the rest of my slingshots.

This is a nauseatingly wordy post but for beginners I think it's a good tutorial.

That doesn't mean a rotating fork isn't better for everyone just because I saw no advantage. Say, if someone simply can not hold the slingshot correctly or consistently, a rotating fork is an advantage theoretically...if and only if the bands are exactly equal, which if you hand cut them like most of us do...they won't be.

If a beginner uses one of these, he/she/it may never learn to hold a slingshot consistently for the slingshot corrects the error itself. If one thinks this is an advantage, fine, if one doesn't, fine. It's up to the buyer and user and how much of a learning curve one wants to avoid if any. My sling carbine for example eliminates many errors by having a shoulder stock and a mechanical lock and peep sight. It's dead on accurate. Why? It eliminates many of my errors. Would I hit the target without a learning curve? Sure. Would I learn to shoot a slingshot? No. It depends on your goals. If you want to hit and that's it, the mechanical contrivance is best. If you really want to know how to shoot a slingshot and master the art of it, i.e. increasing your hand/eye coordination and at the same time challenging yourself, then go with a conventional slingshot. It's in the eyes of the user and buyer.

Here are some personal traits of mine that may help to classify my post here and other posts and projects I do. I don't follow the crowd much so hold tongue in cheek at my personal likes and dislikes. This sport like many is a highly individual thing...the freedom to do was we want is exemplified in this sport.

So anything costing over a hundred bucks no matter WHAT it is in the way of slingshots is way beyond what I chose to spend, since I make my own for the most part (exceptions are el cheapos I own such as a Trumark and a Marksman). In fact anything costing over $20 is out of my range, I'm happy with the ones I make, happier by far than anything I see for sale, period...from any source. This is not meant to be an arrogant statement, it's just the truth. I applaud the designs I see here for creativity and function alright...amazing projects displayed here. The metal wire frames mentioned above were just experiments and glove box beater slingshots I don't mind beating up. I had to modify them to suit me at that...out of the box both of them were unacceptable.

Some collectors on this forum will purchase slingshots which are literally works of art for hundreds of dollars each and I can see that for art's sake. I own art costing more than that so I can't chide those who appreciate fine art in any form. I chose to collect other forms of art, but that doesn't mean you can't spend a hundred some bucks on a super swivel machined masterpiece for your collection. If it makes you happy, do it. I like bronze statues. I have a half dozen. I have a meteorite collection. Some are valued 100s of bucks each. Parts of unearthly stuff. I love it. Does that mean everyone should have one? Of course not. Buy that mechanical dream of a slingshot if you like. Shoot it and enjoy it. That's fine. There are really stupid ways to spend money and slingshots are not one of them. Drugs, excessive booze, gambling, ridiculously expensive vacations are all examples of stupid expenditures and a couple hundred bucks for an expertly crafted slingshot is not out of line at all. For me, though, personally, yes, way out of line, but for others, no. Does it matter? No. It's whatever makes your life happier that matters and in a constructive way that doesn't hurt others.

"If no one remembers it in 100 years, it wasn't important." Henry Ford


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

Doing it.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Chuck Daehler said:


> *It's the German Luger of slingshots..*masterfully crafted mechanics that can freeze up tighter than a cat's butt if too much grit gets into it. It appears that tubes, and a limited diameter of tube, only, will work in it, seriously dampening choice of elastics. Considering the quantity of machined parts, it's cheap. Work a couple overtime days and it's paid for. The tube diameter to me looks pretty wimpy...with all the magnum characteristics, it seems like a 20 lb. air gun. This may be strictly for "target/completion" use similar to a super tricked out compound bow with doo dads and gadgets ready for the Olympics which a hunter or back yard archer would laugh at.


Chuck... you are right on ....WAY, WAY overly complicated.

wll


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Not for me. But still a cool post!


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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

I don't see the point of this at all. If you can't figure out how to hold a slingshot then getting something fancy like this to keep your forks lined up properly won't help you. Looks like an over complicated waste of money to me. Plus, and even worse, it's a pure hammer grip sling. Big fat pass on this one.


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

gee guys , don`t shoot me i`m just the piano player . i`m not advocating this thing , just posted it for comment .

but seriously a lot of folks like `wingshooters ` rotating head designs . for instance ----


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Theres no KISS in that lol !


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## DarrinGlennCook (Jan 5, 2013)

Well Dang.....


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

i don't think so :bonk:


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

Chuck Daehler said:


> It's the German Luger of slingshots..masterfully crafted mechanics that can freeze up tighter than a cat's butt if too much grit gets into it. It appears that tubes, and a limited diameter of tube, only, will work in it, seriously dampening choice of elastics. Considering the quantity of machined parts, it's cheap. Work a couple overtime days and it's paid for. The tube diameter to me looks pretty wimpy...with all the magnum characteristics, it seems like a 20 lb. air gun. This may be strictly for "target/completion" use similar to a super tricked out compound bow with doo dads and gadgets ready for the Olympics which a hunter or back yard archer would laugh at.
> 
> But eliminating the X and Y axis errors of holding the frame doesn't "learn" you how to shoot. You still have to learn:
> 
> ...


chuck have you ever answered anything with out having to type a dissertation :huh:


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

As I said, I took the time to produce a mini tutorial for beginners. Any experienced slingshoter would never buy something like this. The original poster was just posting a curious looking slingshot likely with the prospect of getting opinions, that's all. He said himself it was too expensive.

Lest beginners sucker into stuff that does not work such as laser sights and the romance of high tech machined mechanical contrivances and gizmos such as this in lieu of actually enjoying the challenges of learning to shoot, I thought it would be cool to just blurt out the naked truth with about 2 minutes of precious time taken in actually reading something educational instead of one word replies. Beginners flock to this forum for lots and lots of information about a myriad of subjects pertaining to slingshots and it's information I give. badaboom.

I love engineering but I love the KISS method as well. This is likely the most engineered slingshot I've evern seen and I appreciate that..a lot of thought went into it. But as many said here, it's not for me...but that doesn't matter...it's for someone alright... Bill Gates, Donald Trump, that Facebook kid etc.. to set alongside a twenty thousand dollar engraved Remington they never shoot either...lol.


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## JediMike (Jan 1, 2015)

Ahhh we men do love our toys. Will have to wait and see, if it turns out to be awesome I'm sure we'll all have one this time next year :cookie:


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## sharp eye (Jun 3, 2014)

fsimpson said:


> saw this new rotating head slingshot on `dealextreme ` . looks well made but overpriced
> at $110 . tubes just seem to go up and down vertically but not horizontally.can`t tell if the grip rotates. might be
> fun if it was`nt so expensive -----------


It looks interesting to me, do you have a link?


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## Sr.Miss Alot (Jul 3, 2015)

I'm not a doctor but I'll take a look.


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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

fsimpson said:


> gee guys , don`t shoot me i`m just the piano player . i`m not advocating this thing , just posted it for comment .
> 
> but seriously a lot of folks like `wingshooters ` rotating head designs . for instance ----


I'm not shooting at you! I swear! lol

I haven't been here long, but I am pretty sure Wingshooters rotating heads are all on Starships are they not? It makes sense on starships because you aren't really in a position to be able to hold the forks itself like you can with a basic shooter. On a basic shooter though it really serves no purpose IMO.


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

sharp eye said:


> fsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > saw this new rotating head slingshot on `dealextreme ` . looks well made but overpriced
> ...


 http://www.dx.com/p/stainless-steel-4-hole-slingshot-w-ratatable-head-set-silver-395067#.VZ8gJPlViko


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## omanico (May 29, 2015)

It looks cool but I like them simple :hmm:


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

Phoul Mouth said:


> fsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > gee guys , don`t shoot me i`m just the piano player . i`m not advocating this thing , just posted it for comment .
> ...


 actually he made a lot of these out of nice woods ---- with upper and lower bearings in the grip


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## SlingshotBill (May 29, 2014)

Phoul Mouth said:


> fsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > gee guys , don`t shoot me i`m just the piano player . i`m not advocating this thing , just posted it for comment .
> ...


Thats a negative amigo he does. in fact I think he made it before the starships.


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Phoul Mouth said:


> fsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > gee guys , don`t shoot me i`m just the piano player . i`m not advocating this thing , just posted it for comment .
> ...


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## Piney Creek (Jun 18, 2015)

lunasling said:


> Theres no KISS in that lol !


Appreciate the thought, technology and execution circumventing KISS. Do not see myself becoming emotionaly intimate with this tool. Thanks for posting, I didn't realize things like that existed. Regards, Piney Creek


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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

fsimpson said:


> actually he made a lot of these out of nice woods ---- with upper and lower bearings in the grip
> 
> I'm not shooting at you! I swear! lol
> 
> ...


Yeah, completely pointless. Nice work, but it serves no purpose at all. You have to be so amazingly precise with band length and width to make it not skew one way or the other as well that it is more of a hassle and drawback than benefit.


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## sharp eye (Jun 3, 2014)

I think the concept will have more appeal if they add a wrist support to the frame.


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Not putting it down its a dandy Lil pcs 
Of machinery but not my cup o tea lol.


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## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

Something I learned on the other forum JUST before I clicked on this, "in Japan they have a word "CHINDOGU" which applies to inventions that are not necessarily useless but may seem totally unnecessary and invoke laughter.."

Is that the Universe on the job or not?!


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## Tremoside (Jul 17, 2013)

*Chuck! It was a really impressive post! I am amazed! Truly thoughtful!* :wave:

Yes, price looks correct judging by the details (if made in Germany).

In addition:

If it's a slingshot gadget I only miss an adjustable sight, arm brace and a better grip.

*@fsimpson Thanks for the post! It's interesting!*



Chuck Daehler said:


> It's the German Luger of slingshots..masterfully crafted mechanics that can freeze up tighter than a cat's butt if too much grit gets into it. It appears that tubes, and a limited diameter of tube, only, will work in it, seriously dampening choice of elastics. Considering the quantity of machined parts, it's cheap. Work a couple overtime days and it's paid for. The tube diameter to me looks pretty wimpy...with all the magnum characteristics, it seems like a 20 lb. air gun. This may be strictly for "target/completion" use similar to a super tricked out compound bow with doo dads and gadgets ready for the Olympics which a hunter or back yard archer would laugh at.
> 
> But eliminating the X and Y axis errors of holding the frame doesn't "learn" you how to shoot. You still have to learn:
> 
> ...


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## Bink (Feb 19, 2015)

I am sure enjoying Roger's RH sling. Seems dead on. And is it ever fun. Something different in the toy box keeps it all interesting.


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

Phoul Mouth said:


> fsimpson said:
> 
> 
> > actually he made a lot of these out of nice woods ---- with upper and lower bearings in the grip
> ...


Here is a short vid to show how disastrous shooting different size bands and different length bands with the rotating head fork can be.


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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

Wingshooter said:


> Phoul Mouth said:
> 
> 
> > fsimpson said:
> ...


Much more forgiving than common sense would dictate they should be. But, as I said before, I agree with these on Starships due to the additional distance of the fork from the hand. On a basic slingshot though, they have no purpose at all, it's an unnecessary crutch.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

The purpose of an arm braced, rotating head slingshot is to keep the forks perpendicular to the target on all axes, X, Y and Z in this 3D universe we live in. Think of it as pitch. roll and yawl..the only 3 possible axes of error in a 3D universe. A starship or any other arm braced slingshot already maintains this...forks perpendicular to the target and as far as I am concerned, a rotating fork on an arm braced slingshot is not needed. It's on the hand held slingshots that it may be of some advantage. If you learn to hold the slingshot correctly in the first place, likely a rotating head is not needed at all. As I said, I tried one, didn't see any benefit at all and made that slingshot static..non rotating with the same results. Rotating heads are only for those who won't hold a slingshot correctly. I stand with that statement unless someone can give a reason as to why have a rotating head.

Again, both bands must be exactly the same or the rotatinng fork head cants and that's what the idea is supposed to prevent. Roger points this out in the video that both bands must be equal. If you are a good cutter (and I am fair but not good) of bands that's not a problem or if you use tubes, likewise that's not going to be a problem...same length = same pull strength. If you use a used band with a new one..one on one side, the other on the other side, obviously the pull strength is going to be different and a rotating fork will cant with the different pull strengths. Used bands have a bit less pull strength than brand new bands. A stationary fork wouldn't cant under unequal bands.

I am not denouncing Roger's engineering theory nor his well crafted products either. His stainless steel forks with the slot attachment are indeed the simplest easiest fastest way to change bands. A starship is going to be the most consistent slingshot for the arm brace forces one to align the fork perpendicular to the target each shot the same way. Also, due to the longer draw it's going to be the most powerful and fast slingshot because of the longer draw from the fork as opposed to a shorter draw with a normal hand held slingshot. By the time the pouch is drawn back on a star ship to the holding hand, the bands are already tensioned, all the "dead space" is taken up and it's pure tension draw from then on. The longer the ammo stays in the pouch, that is, the longer length of contraction of the rubber, the more velocity is attained for that ammo and band...the longer the bands have to propel the ammo forward and overcome the inertia of the ammo. Physics.

As to the slingshot that started this thread, again, I think it is a marvel of engineering and likely the best use of it is TO SHOOT, rather than to debate it. It would appeal to collectors and to those who just want to get into mechanics with slingshots. Yes, if it had an arm brace attachment (surprised it doesn't...a decent mod to make) it would have everything going for it possible. I imagine it would involve less learning curve to consistently hit a given target than any other slingshot I've seen or shot because it compensates for the most errors shooters have...especially new and intermediate shooters.

Then I see videos by Bill Hayes, Game Keeper John and a hoard of others which show precision beyond belief with ordinary slingshots..no lanyard, no arm brace, no gimics, no mechanics, no rotating forks, no nuthin' except expert experienced shooting. I guess we all are hunting the Holy Grail so to speak of slingshots and are prone to rely on gimmicks more than practice. I was guilty of that myself in making a couple arm braced slingshots and buying two wire frames of such, and using lanyards. I am equaling accuracy now, using just hand held slingshots, accuracy/consistency that I once had with the "crutches" of arm braces and lanyards. That tells me I am just plain getting better. I shoot over 1000 rounds a week, it's about dang time! LOL

I have a Marksman "shuttle craft" which to newbies, a shuttle craft is a short star ship. It is the hardest hitting slingshot I own because of the extended draw. With double 15mm TBG flats, it easily penetrates steel paint cans at 15 meters using steel cylinder ammo 10mm diam, 11mm long and send round ammo out at very high velocity and flat trajectory, but I'd expect that out of any shuttle craft and yet more from a long starship as what Roger produced when he was making them in mass. Simply said, Roger's arm braced slingshots were goof proof, highly accurate for reasons given above and achieved very high velocities for the bands used. He literally set the pace for star ships in my humble opinion.

Roger's simple hand held rotating fork slingshots, of which he made a number and some exotic wood handles I might add, are the cat's meow for hand held slingshot function. With the stainless steel quick change slotted attachment rotating head with bearings no less, one has to be a pretty uncoordinated shooter not to hit a target. To me the rotating head is best applied to this sort of slingshot, not a starship. I haven't read of one dissatisfied customer of Roger's, both hand held and arm braced models.

Liker all designs, we owe it to ourselves to at least try them all...to find the Holy Grail we like the best. Most of us have slingshots which are specifically better for X use...or at least favorite for that X use for whatever physical or psychological reason de jour.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Phoul Mouth said:


> Wingshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Phoul Mouth said:
> ...


 Its no more of a crutch than marking a center line on your band , using a lanyard around your wrist for stability, arm brace, sight attached to your slingshot. Ergonomic grip on your slingshot please. It's a great design and shoots really well. If you want to be crutch less get yourself a tree branch and some rubber band s and have at it.


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

here are a couple primitive rotating head shooters i have made . they work on bushings not bearings . fun to shoot and i

believe for me they impart a certain mechanical advantage ,or at least don`t hurt anything . wasn't it you chuck

pointing out in previous post how few millimeters in fork angle aiming error progressively imparts such a large error down range ? these seem to help me with windage alignment error . ------each to his own


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

The RH fork shooting system isn't meant to be anything but a different way to shoot with advantages and disadvantages. The advantages are perfect alignment with fork and pouch each shot, no fork hits, no hand slap. extended band life, simple quick band change, fork tips accommodate bands doubles looped tubes single tubes or any combination of the above and you don't have to have precision cut bands the forks will let you shoot accurately with mismatched bands. You can shoot from any position even holding the forks almost completely upside down with out fear of hitting your forks. Treefork has shown on his videos that they are as accurate as anything out there. Bill Hayes did a high speed video showing how the bands reacted when shot. They make a complete pass thru of the forks and full extension to the rear before the forks ever start to move.

Disadvantage ------------------------- ?


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## fsa46 (Jul 8, 2012)

Hey Roger, I was convinced of everything you posted after the first one I bought. I have yet to have even my first fork hit after thousands of rounds shot thru the seven RH frames I have. They are deadly accurate and I can't say enough about them.

I always wear safety glasses when shooting, you can never tell when something bad could happen.


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## quarterinmynose (Jan 21, 2012)

I think it looks pretty dang slick. Not my bag by a long shot, but looks cool. I don't do tubes or hammer grip.

If the actual quality is on par with what seems to be in the pics, and you don't plan on going dirt diving with it....heII $110 seems like a pretty fair shake. Look at what some of the slingshots out there go for.


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## Bink (Feb 19, 2015)

I put some fairly decent frames up for trade for a Roger's RH slings. For some reason those who have them are not letting them go. Now that I've tryed one,I now know why.


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Overkill !


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## Slingshot Silas (Apr 4, 2013)

Byudzai said:


> wanders a bit off the "no moving parts" school of thought, but certainly looks like it'd be fun to play with.
> 
> also looks like you could do a medical exam with it


Hey Byudzai,

I think you are right-on about the moving parts list. The medical exam might be from the seller. You know, on the buyers exit orifice! Chuck might be right about some grit Fn up the mechanism. Einstein's theories and such. Wherzzz the lazzzers? Looks kinda' like something from iRobot. Then again, it might be the best thing since the forked stick. I'm kinda' skeptical meself. Still would be interesting to see the results, though.

SSS

:woot: :woot:


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Moving parts will eventually wear out rubber probably won't last to long, to me it's to much
If I remember correctly there was a member that purchased something like that and a spring broke
On the pivot assembly and he would have to wait weeks for a replacement part ,or fashion one of his own ,to much of a hassle my opinion .KISS is my motto.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

Tremoside, thank you!

It's undebatable that Roger's fork concept is one heck of a good idea...many happy enthusiasts use and love his design and copy it often enough as well. But Roger's design stops with a rotating fork, it doesn't have all the mechanics, for most slingshoters want to learn to shoot and not rely on crutches. His ergonomic handles offer comfort and a better "hold" than just a stick and for my aging hands comfy handles are nice...hence my fat ergoish frames. His handle design is great for rotational forks as well as static ones.

I do like machine work so that much at least about the whizbang one so kindly posted I do like, but to have one...uh uh. I wouldn't have one if it was offered free...just too much stuff going on for a slingshot.

I also thank the poster for starting this thread, it gives beginners a full scope of opinions and that's what a forum is for, right? Maybe some day if I find a whizbang over indulged gimmicky slingshot, I'll post it, but in a humorous way of course.

As to my dissertations, if one doesn't want to read them, please feel free to shine it on. I post mostly for new shooters, experienced ones already know what I post usually, and more. A forum is for everyone, not just the "experts", and actually the forum attracts new shooters constantly, good for SSF!! (and good for paying sellers who support the forum and the forum supports them too). So, if you don't want to read "dissertations" feel free to skip them please. How else to educate newer shooters with opinions and facts? Reading seems to be diminishing in participation these days anyway... people write in sentence fragments and improper English constantly and even speak that way..they don't even know the difference between their, there and they're.


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Don't forget "thar " lol !

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G850A using Tapatalk


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## Slingshot Silas (Apr 4, 2013)

2, (two), to, too. And of course, 3. Toot toot! All aboard!


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## erlkonig (Mar 31, 2011)

usd $ 234 (china local price) ice dragon II RH. laser aimming


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## lunasling (Apr 5, 2015)

Ice Dragon ? Nah I'll pass

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## SlingshotBill (May 29, 2014)

Does she come with it??


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