# Buying my first "real" slingshot today. Torn between a Scout, Scout Clone, an Ocularis Beanflip, or an Axiom.



## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

What do you guys think? I was going to get a scout hands down but then i found the clones, so its a little rough to justify a real one. I saw the Axiom Ocularis and kinda fell in love with it, looks like a scout, but more versatile. But what do you guys think is the best choice for a starter?


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

also considering the Axiom Champ.


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## Hulla Baloo (Nov 25, 2017)

Get the Scout.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

The clone on eBay can be had for $11-$16 and is as solid as solid gets. Made from HDPE and will take any abuse you can give it. I hung one in my catch box and shot the forks 25 times with 1/2" steel balls then beat it with a hammer against an anvil and finally hung the anvil from the fork holes. Impossible to destroy under normal conditions. Exact copy except for the logo. Shoots just as well and accurate as the real deal.


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## Hulla Baloo (Nov 25, 2017)

If you live in the United States and can afford it, get the Scout. You'll be purchasing it from Simple Shot and Nathan Masters, inventor of the Scout. Nathan will be representing us in Italy this year at the Slingshot World Cup. He is the current and East Coast champion (four years running) and arguably the best shooter in the world. Get the Scout. He'll take care of you-

JR, your animus toward Simple Shot is beyond obvious at this point. Give it a rest. He pays for your childish opportunities to spout off...


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## MakoPat (Mar 12, 2018)

Orderimg from eBay requires a lengthy wait typically... that alone for a first frame can be...rough. Also I like to support the original designers when I can.

Both are excellents choices.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

So no love for the Ocularis Axiom? Its 10 bucks cheaper than the scout and seems like its more versatile, and i like the sight notches.


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## STO (Mar 2, 2018)

All those slingshots have Nathan Masters' preferred thumb and index up grip, and are OTT/TTF convertible. They're all good choices, if that is your preferred grip style. I personally would recommend a genuine Scout slingshot, off your list. That said I tend to be more partial to the Pocket Predator designs. Maybe it'd be controversial to say, but I'd recommend a Scorpion or HTS. Nothing against Nathan Masters, I own a Scout and it is a great slingshot, I just seem to gell more with Bill Hays designs. (http://www.pocketpredator.com/two.html)

*edit* 
So I'm just going to go out and say it: WTF is this obsession with sight notches? (you're not the first to ask Wignorant) They're so easy to cut/file into any existing design if that is your huckleberry, I don't see the value of a slingshot coming with them, if anything because it means you're less able to put on your own just where you want them. Someone help me out here?


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## Hulla Baloo (Nov 25, 2017)

I agree with STO. Hay's designs are awesome. But for your first, get the Scout- It will teach you all you need to know about your preferences. Once you know those, you'll make more informed decisions about your rigs.


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## STO (Mar 2, 2018)

Hulla Baloo said:


> I agree with STO. Hay's designs are awesome. But for your first, get the Scout- It will teach you all you need to know about your preferences. Once you know those, you'll make more informed decisions about your rigs.


Nah, TTF master race!!!!!!!!!! (joking)


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

STO said:


> All those slingshots have Nathan Masters' preferred thumb and index up grip, and are OTT/TTF convertible. They're all good choices, if that is your preferred grip style. I personally would recommend a genuine Scout slingshot, off your list. That said I tend to be more partial to the Pocket Predator designs. Maybe it'd be controversial to say, but I'd recommend a Scorpion or HTS. Nothing against Nathan Masters, I own a Scout and it is a great slingshot, I just seem to gell more with Bill Hays designs. (http://www.pocketpredator.com/two.html)
> 
> *edit*
> So I'm just going to go out and say it: WTF is this obsession with sight notches? (you're not the first to ask Wignorant) They're so easy to cut/file into any existing design if that is your huckleberry, I don't see the value of a slingshot coming with them, if anything because it means you're less able to put on your own just where you want them. Someone help me out here?


I agree, I am super new to this still, so when I saw the video and it showed the sights I was like, oh cool! That's my explanation, lol. As for a grip style? I have this little crappy 14 dollar guy i got from amazon. I like the way it feels, but its SUPER small and cant really hold it any other way. I dont even know which style of grip you'd call this.


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## STO (Mar 2, 2018)

Pinch grip methinks? Or perhaps hammer grip?

You can grip like that on a lot of the designs mentioned, although I consider it most comfortable on the Scorpion. Hulla Baloo isn't wrong though that the Scout will give you the greatest ability to try different things in one slingshot, the flip clips are very convenient when you're just starting out. But, not only am I pocket predator biased, I'm TTF biased so..... I mean I guess I have some pretty specific opinions on what slingshot I'd buy if I were you, (obviously my slingshots, buy slingshots from me, I'm the best. ) Humor aside though I don't want to push you too hard in any given direction because I'm not you and this journey is kind of your own path to take. I hope that makes sense?


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Hulla Baloo said:


> I agree with STO. Hay's designs are awesome. But for your first, get the Scout- It will teach you all you need to know about your preferences. Once you know those, you'll make more informed decisions about your rigs.


I know its morally screwed up, but in my head I can't justify the 40 vs 12 bucks for the clone. My thought process was, get the Axiom because there are no clones of it and it really closely resemebled the scout for 10 bucks cheaper. Can i ask you guys, why the scout over the Axiom? Is it just the grip? I was under the impression the Axion supported multiple grip styples. Like I said, This how i hold what i got now, and i like it alot, its just super small..I only got 2 posts left for the day, what do you guys think of this for something to hold me over until i get my scout? its available and ready to go on Amazon, if your not fans, can you recommend me something that I can get for cheap in the US like another Amazon special? Keep in mind just to hold me over until i get my scout!


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## Hulla Baloo (Nov 25, 2017)

Very well. More information...

If that is your preferred hold, get the Scorpion.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Get the Scout from Nathan.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Cjw said:


> Get the Scout from Nathan.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


Aghhhhh. I can't justify 40 - 15 for the clone! Let me think, if i get it, it comes with a decent band, thats 5 bucks I wont have to spend. Minus the 15 for the clone. 20 bucks plus shipping to get it in my hands..I think I might just do that unless anyone can come up with a better idea. 40 bucks isn't bad. I know there is a 15% off simpleshot for fathers day right now, does anyone have a better coupon or a better spot to get the scout from?


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Hulla Baloo said:


> If you live in the United States and can afford it, get the Scout. You'll be purchasing it from Simple Shot and Nathan Masters, inventor of the Scout. Nathan will be representing us in Italy this year at the Slingshot World Cup. He is the current and East Coast champion (four years running) and arguably the best shooter in the world. Get the Scout. He'll take care of you-
> 
> JR, your animus toward Simple Shot is beyond obvious at this point. Give it a rest. He pays for your childish opportunities to spout off...


 Any opportunity to Bash Nathan and Simpleshot . And any opportunity to do kissy face for PP. It's so obvious a blind person could see it. But Nathan doesn't need his approval, He's beat the best 4 years in a row.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ShootnCoastie (Jan 26, 2015)

Wignorant said:


> What do you guys think? I was going to get a scout hands down but then i found the clones, so its a little rough to justify a real one. I saw the Axiom Ocularis and kinda fell in love with it, looks like a scout, but more versatile. But what do you guys think is the best choice for a starter?


Years ago I purchased a Scout, it was my second purchase and "should" have been my first. It's a versatile 'Jack of All Trades' and a great all around slingshot. I have several of them now in various colors and setups.

You said you were going to "get a Scout hands down" and the majority of the replies have been *get the Scout*..


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

I would go for one of the following:

Axiom Ocularis - $30

Axiom OTT Poly - $20

Axiom OTT/TTF Poly - $25

I have the Axiom Ocularis. It has a slender handle like I prefer. The plugs put OTT bands a bit further from my fingers than I like but it still shoots fine that way. This evening I switched it to TTF and I like it. I don't normally shoot TTF but I'll leave it that way for a while... maybe a long while.

The Axiom OTT Poly looks similar to frames that I make and shoot often. I prefer the more slender handle design on these frames than the Axiom Champ model... but that's just my personal preference.

The Scout is popular but I think the rubber grip looks a bit fat for my liking. I would pull off the rubber and see how it feels. Actually, I would just go with the Axiom OTT/TTF if I wanted both band mounting options. The Axiom OTT would be my most likely choice because it's dedicated OTT.

Oh... if you do buy from SimpleShot, make sure you get some extra black flatbands. They shoot great IMO.

Cheers


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Got you covered Pal. I'll have a package in the mail to you Monday morning. Have a wonderful weekend. Jolly Roger


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jolly Roger said:


> Got you covered Pal. I'll have a package in the mail to you Monday morning. Have a wonderful weekend. Jolly Roger


Now that is how a community should support a new comer. Hat's off to you Sir. I also have MANY of Simple Shot's original slingshots. I guess my personal favorite is the newer molded Axiom Ocularis. I also have original Scouts and some of the clones as well. The Chinese clone is every bit as good as the original. I know they "stole" the design but I have no guilt picking a few up for around $14 or less and I still spend a lot at Simple Shot every year. That said if the Chinese company that cloned the Scout and the Torque make a clone of the Axiom Ocularis for similar pricing I will be getting a few of those as well. The cloned Torque frames are also of equal quality to the original. I do however put my own band sets and pouches on any Chinese models I shoot. The little tiny microfiber pouch they generally come with can easily let a 3/8" ball slip over or under it on release if not well centered. It is rare but it only takes once to hurt a bystander or in my case break a mirror while shooting indoors. Once was enough for me so if I plan on shooting it at all, I at least change to a bigger real leather pouch before doing so. Almost every slingshot I have bought from China that uses flat bands came with the tiny little pouch regardless of cost. Probably 100% safe with 1/4" balls but I have already had my one incident with 3/8" balls and it isn't going to happen to me again.


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

*Those who live in glass houses shouldn't shoot slingshots. Apparently the not-so-Jolly Roger is the Forum pinata. Has he been an outrageous curmudgeon, pissing most everyone off with thoughtless comments and often really oblique opinions? Yup, no doubt. But in this thread, he was trying to offer guidance to a newbie who's reluctant to spend 40 bux - for whatever reason - and JR was actually endorsing the Scout design. But he's made enemies and the frenzy piled on. *

*Nathan deserves all of the above accolades and I wish him well in Italy ... but he doesn't walk on water. I had to unsubscribe from the incessant, obnoxious SS marketing emails - 'your gold status (ego bait) will expire in 10 days unless you spend cubic money' and then another 'your gold status will expire in 5 days ... blah blah.' That kind of BS bounces off of me, much like another well known member flaunting his wealth at every opportunity. I've paid my dues at Simple Shot and will continue buying from them if I need something. But I also buy whatever I want and to heII with 'herd think'. *


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Wignorant said:


> What do you guys think? I was going to get a scout hands down but then i found the clones, so its a little rough to justify a real one. I saw the Axiom Ocularis and kinda fell in love with it, looks like a scout, but more versatile. But what do you guys think is the best choice for a starter?


Since newer shooters are more likely to have accidental fork hits it's probably best if you start with something cheap enough that if you do get one, it isn't going to break your heart. Nothing at all wrong with the Scout clone from China. I would suggest you start with that and once you have had some practice time in and less prone to getting an accidental fork hit get something more expensive if you like. My favorite current production from Simple Shot is the molded Axiom Ocularis. I have several of the older versions, a couple from Pro Shot in aluminum and ether 5 or 6 of the newer molded ones. I would most certainly choose the Axiom over the Beenflip. The Beanflip is easier to accidentally fork hit than an Axiom or a Scout. I bought a cast aluminum Beanflip Ocularis from Pro-Shot within weeks of getting back into shooting after not shooting for many years. I fork hit it the first time out. I took the time to sand the ding out and re-polish it to the point that it is impossible to tell it ever happened but that took some time. I have been shooting an Axiom Ocularis on a regular basis of one model or the other and have yet to accidentally fork hit one. Whatever you choose welcome and have some fun. The folks here can give you all the help you could possibly need getting started. Get what YOU WANT is the bottom line.


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## The Norseman (Mar 5, 2018)

Oh boy.....


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Alfred E.M. said:


> *Those who live in glass houses shouldn't shoot slingshots. Apparently the not-so-Jolly Roger is the Forum pinata. Has he been an outrageous curmudgeon, pissing most everyone off with thoughtless comments and often really oblique opinions? Yup, no doubt. But in this thread, he was trying to offer guidance to a newbie who's reluctant to spend 40 bux - for whatever reason - and JR was actually endorsing the Scout design. But he's made enemies and the frenzy piled on. *
> 
> *Nathan deserves all of the above accolades and I wish him well in Italy ... but he doesn't walk on water. I had to unsubscribe from the incessant, obnoxious SS marketing emails - 'your gold status (ego bait) will expire in 10 days unless you spend cubic money' and then another 'your gold status will expire in 5 days ... blah blah.' That kind of BS bounces off of me, much like another well known member flaunting his wealth at every opportunity. I've paid my dues at Simple Shot and will continue buying from them if I need something. But I also buy whatever I want and to heII with 'herd think'. *


Well said. I have similar feeling on most everything you had to say here. I buy what I want when I can afford to buy what I want and don't really care what the 'heard" thinks about it. Sometimes I buy something unusual that turns out great and sometimes it turns out to be crap but either way it was MY choice to make regardless if it was a good choice or a bad one.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Just been notified that the Bean Flip Occularis Clone is now on AliExpress for $9.69 Looks like the Axiom and others will be following soon at some point. You are right, why pay $40 for something to practice fork hits on when something of equal quality is available for less than the price of lunch at Taco Bell.

It is really amazing how some insist that new shooters MUST buy what they recommend. Yes, we all have choices but often ask for input not mandates.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Wignorant said:


> So no love for the Ocularis Axiom? Its 10 bucks cheaper than the scout and seems like its more versatile, and i like the sight notches.


The Axiom Ocularis is an OUTSTANDING slingshot. It is generally the one I shoot most of all. I love them.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Some of us choose to support the vendors here . And try to buy American made stuff when we can. When vendors spend the money to design and market a product than that design is taken by others and sold is what's destroying American manufacturing. And by supporting this it's just a race to the bottom. People only care about American jobs when it's theirs in jeopardy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## MakoPat (Mar 12, 2018)

The Scout and one of Joseph Garcia's frames is next on my list.
I like Jolly Roger... I dig his style... 
And saving a few bucks is great. I am speaking long term about biulding a collection. I want originals so years from now I can sleep in a pile of slingshots and ammo like a Y Fork Dragon.

I must read things is laid back mode. I was here earlier and just skipped all the 'juice'. I also just got an Ocularis for a present. For me I am trying out various attachment methods. But I shoot ttf, and I never use sights or divets or what have you. I look down the edge of the band or tube.

Good luck, Wigorant... get what YOU like... and hopefully you sifted through the sand and found some good shiny info. Be sure post slingmail pics for fun. And if your wait is long,just make a at h box. Haha


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## The Norseman (Mar 5, 2018)

Don't get scared off please! They just do that when the topic of reals vs clones is brought up. Its one of the few things that will really get these guys going.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Your wait won't be long. I'll have you a couple of frames in the mail Monday morning. You should receive the package by Wed. or Thurs.

Hope the job hunt goes well. I know what it is like to have to cut corners when the regular income flow isn't there. That shouldn't stop you from enjoying the stress release of slingshot shooting....which makes me think....maybe I should send you a bottle of 3/8" steel ammo to get you started. Catch boxes or back drops are easy and fun to design. Just hang an old sheet for starters or a Welcome Mat.


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## MakoPat (Mar 12, 2018)

Bam! Jolly Roger to rescue. One more thing about this forum... loads of kind folks. 
Jolly, you are awesome. 
I really had no idea about the clones versus real either, The Northman.

I buy what I can afford and never think twice about it. But trackomg the package from China sometimes drives me to distraction. 
I also try to make stuff.. which can take even lo nger than a trip China and back.

Y'all, be well. I am out to sketch in my slingshot journal.


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

I just can not understand why people would desert their ethics for a couple of bucks.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Ordo said:


> I just can not understand why people would desert their ethics for a couple of bucks.


Maybe because ethics is a subjective notion, and for some, buying a clone is not an immoral act? 
I dont like the fact that the original designers don't always get their dues, but I also don't like imposing my ethics to others 
JR likes to throw the bait, he has a strange sense of humour, but I really don't think he has anything against SS. Why would he anyway?


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## raventree78 (Apr 20, 2016)

I really like the Axiom design and have several of them in different configurations. The Ocularis attachment is both neat and flexible. I however have a soft spot for the Axioms with "wrap and tuck" attachment. Just my $0.02


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Now we are talking about the axioms, how much length of rubber is needed for the ocularis system to work?


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## 3danman (Mar 29, 2012)

skropi said:


> Now we are talking about the axioms, how much length of rubber is needed for the ocularis system to work?


I usually add about an inch, but the nice thing is you can adjust it as you attach the bands. If they're too long or short you can just pop the plug out again and make any changes you need to within seconds.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Ordo said:


> I just can not understand why people would desert their ethics for a couple of bucks.


Buying a clone that is less than half the cost and every bit as good is certainly no stray from my ethics. Getting spam emails from Simple Shot stating my "Gold Status" will expire in "X" number of days if I don't order from them again within that time period is a HUGE stray from my ethics.

I spend a lot of money at Simple Shot already. This type of sales gimmick is a big turn off to me.

I'm more likely to stop buying there altogether for that sort of thing than buy something just to keep my "Gold Status" in place so I just unsubscribed to ALL their spam crap.

Maybe they are forgetting they are far from the ONLY (or best) source for just about anything slingshot related.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

3danman said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > Now we are talking about the axioms, how much length of rubber is needed for the ocularis system to work?
> ...


An inch more on top of the usual inch we add? For example, how much more is needed for a 15cm active length? Would 18cm total suffice taking into account pouch attachment?


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Ordo said:
> 
> 
> > I just can not understand why people would desert their ethics for a couple of bucks.
> ...


That's why I always say that ethics is a subjective matter. Don't be so harsh to SS though, it's just a marketing matter, nothing to hold against Nathan really. Just unsubscribe and all is well in the world again.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

The Ocularis attachment of the Axiom is merely the thickness of the frame and about 1/4" or so to fold behind the plugs. In short it would be no more than 10 or 12mm more band than a regular tie on type frame.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

I agree and I did unsubscribe. If I need or want something there I will buy it but if I don't no threat of losing a "Gold Status" is going to get me to buy unless I want something. I know it's a marketing matter but it's a bad strategy in my opinion and of course that is just my opinion. I'm sure there are some folks that read the email "threat" and log right on and buy something but that is not or never will be me.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

I don't have anything against Simple Shot other than the email marketing "threat" strategy. Just for my own curiosity, I logged on and checked my order history. I have spent $1,296.74 since November of 2016 at Simple Shot. That amount does not include money spent at Pro Shot UK to buy some Simple Shot designs that Simple Shot did not have in stock when I wanted them. I guess a lot has changed since November of 2016.

I can get better elastic from GZK China than anyplace in the USA and have it at my door in a week. I have hundreds of pouches from Performance Catapult and I can tie better band sets myself than I can buy from anyone. There are several places to buy great frames from. GZK can get almost any frame I want from their store delivered to my door in a week. There is always Pocket Predator that delivers in a couple to three days. There are more and better frames on the world market today than ever before. I guess I just don't feel a "need" to buy from Simple Shot. That said, if they have something I want, I will buy it but when I am ready and not to hold my place in their buyer status scam. No amount of "Lose your Gold Membership" email threats is going to get me to buy anything until I decide I want it. I rather enjoyed getting the emails showing off their latest items or what may be on sale but the emails that threaten to change my buyer standing if I don't log on and buy something in a given period of time really put me off.

I expect the one I got tonight will be the last. That sort of sales strategy has a very negative affect on me.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

I'm going to have to weigh in here. Unlicensed clones are (my personal opinion) theft of intellectual property. Some, such as SPS copies, are actually illegal in the U.S.

Now, Moderator hat on, whether you buy an unlicensed clone of one of Vendors' products is a matter between you and your personal values. Advocating buying clones of our Vendors' products is arguably an attack on Vendors and the Forum. Unfavorable comparisons between the price of clones vs Vendor prices is an attack on Vendors, in my opinion.

So guys, feel free to give advice to newcomers, but don't hurt the Forum by steering them away from our Vendors.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Henry the Hermit said:


> I'm going to have to weigh in here. Unlicensed clones are (my personal opinion) theft of intellectual property. Some, such as SPS copies, are actually illegal in the U.S.
> 
> Now, Moderator hat on, whether you buy an unlicensed clone of one of Vendors' products is a matter between you and your personal values. Advocating buying clones of our Vendors' products is arguably an attack on Vendors and the Forum. Unfavorable comparisons between the price of clones vs Vendor prices is an attack on Vendors, in my opinion.
> 
> So guys, feel free to give advice to newcomers, but don't hurt the Forum by steering them away from our Vendors.


I agree with you. My only point is that a newcomer should buy a cheap frame first, if he/she is fork hit prone.


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## kevmar (Aug 5, 2017)

Jolly Roger said:


> The clone on eBay can be had for $11-$16 and is as solid as solid gets. Made from HDPE and will take any abuse you can give it. I hung one in my catch box and shot the forks 25 times with 1/2" steel balls then beat it with a hammer against an anvil and finally hung the anvil from the fork holes. Impossible to destroy under normal conditions. Exact copy except for the logo. Shoots just as well and accurate as the real deal.


Have you got a link please JR?


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## 3danman (Mar 29, 2012)

skropi said:


> 3danman said:
> 
> 
> > skropi said:
> ...


I cut my bands a little long when I make them because I'm not always sure what I'm doing with them. So I have a pouch tied on and some extra room to work with. Then, considering my normal active length (plus a bit extra for a normal wrap n tuck), I add about an inch for an Ocularis set. This might he more than some but a little extra slack gives me peace of mind anyway


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

kevmar said:


> Jolly Roger said:
> 
> 
> > The clone on eBay can be had for $11-$16 and is as solid as solid gets. Made from HDPE and will take any abuse you can give it. I hung one in my catch box and shot the forks 25 times with 1/2" steel balls then beat it with a hammer against an anvil and finally hung the anvil from the fork holes. Impossible to destroy under normal conditions. Exact copy except for the logo. Shoots just as well and accurate as the real deal.
> ...


I sent you a PM so as not to piss anyone off. It says eBay HDPE slingshots


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## ShootnCoastie (Jan 26, 2015)

skropi said:


> I agree with you. My only point is that a newcomer should buy a cheap frame first, if he/she is fork hit prone.


A sale is a sale. A new comer may be content with their counterfeit purchase and the original designer/manufacturer has lost out on their hard work in design, manufacturing, and marketing.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Thank you all so much for all of the wonderful advice. I am a Union Journeyman Pipefitter, so trust me guys made in America means something to me, and even before that, I sang in a punk band for years and was able to see why bands hated bootleggers so much. That being said, I am currently laid off, have been for awhile now. I had a major house flood that tore through my savings, but im getting by. The 40 dollar wrist rocket I stupidly bought on Amazon was my only treat to myself for working 3 months of overtime a long time ago, and surprise, it SUCKS!

I personally want to try a bunch different kinds of sling shots out there, ESPECIALLY since last night where my wife and I had more fun than we have had in years plinking cans, it really smoothed over a rough rough path we we on surprisingly, and shes a damn good shot! I want to try to find something small for her hands once i get the loot ( I love her and I all, but his whole sharing a slingshot thing..... :iono: if shes gone, I could afford more slingshots......lol.

Sorry, getting off track, I see no problem in getting a cheap clone to see if I like the design, im broke, and honestly the axiom ocularis is more appealing to me than the scout but im trying what everyone is telling me try as my first. If I like my clone, I'm totally going to buy the scout in orange and black (im from Baltimore) if i dont like the scout clone, i'm getting the Axiom. I hope you guys understand, im trying to make the best of what I can while going through probably the hardest time in my life. It sounds lame, but if i spent 40 dollars AGAIN on a slingshot I dont like using, I would be DEVASTATED.

I love simple shot, and will be buying some bands, and probably even the jig as it comes with a bunch of bands and I have literally 0. So once these cheap china bands that came with my amazon special break completely im grabbing a new one from SS for sure, just cant afford the packs or the JIG, which is what i really like as it comes with bands and everything needed. I haven't looked at their ammo prices, but I will probably get there too. Plus they have a few small frames that I want my wife to try out, as I see shooting bringing us back together again, but like i said, im trying to make the money I made on the last job last, no clue when the next job is.

I hope you guys understand. I really am enjoying this forum. (HATE THIS POST NUMBER RESTRICTION, waiting for my posts to be approved.) Thank you all so much for the advice the kind words and really, putting my a smile on my face for the first time in a long time. I'm not used to this whole not having money thing, not being able to get my wife lil gifts, so needless to say I've been down in the dumps hard for the past 2 weeks. Shooting with my wife put us helped us so much, I can't wait to get to work again to get her own so i have to stop sharing!

Either way, I really appreciate the kind words and the patience, look forward to speaking me, you guys are awesome. Thank you for the warm welcome. I'ts been a really rough couple months, and I really needed this.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

ShootnCoastie said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you. My only point is that a newcomer should buy a cheap frame first, if he/she is fork hit prone.
> ...


A cheap frame doesnt have to be a clone of some established frame, but when someone asks for suggestions, and even though he is new, people are suggesting him an expensive frame, they don't take into account the disappointment of getting a nice frame dinged up. And in any case, manufacturers/designers have not the same aims in life as customers. I am a customer, my purpose is not to buy something expensive and have it go to waste, while a designer just wants my money, nothing against that of course.
Btw, aren't we, of the western world of the opinion that competition and survival of the fittest is what drives society forward? If so, then what's the problem really? We just don't like that when it's ours on the losing side? Personally I don't consider competition and survival of the fittest good for society, so I am just using majority's beliefs against them in this case.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Competition is what makes the world go round. As the saying goes; if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

Thanks for sharing the whole story with the rest of the forum. I guess I had a heads up with what was going on through PMs and had a perspective others were not able to see through. When you don't have an income $40 is a lot of money. And as the saying goes $40 saved is $40 earned. Kinda makes life sweeter when we can help out someone in need. Our govt. has taken that moral value away and shown everyone that it is the govt. that should be providing needs not us as individuals.

Hang in there and by mid week you and the wife will be shooting slingshots both with your own frame. Like I said, I'll pack an extra or two for you guys. I'm low on bands and you mentioned wanting to learn to tie bands with the jig so I'll leave that luxury for you to discover.

Anyone else want to step up to the plate and send off a couple sets of flat bands to the man? Heck, while we're at it, maybe someone wants to ante up for a jig and a few pouches.

Glad to have you on the forum. Not many are willing to let it all hang out and share their personal circumstances. That takes courage. When I suggested doing something nice that doesn't cost anything for the wife, I never dreamed that it would be shooting slingshots together that would be the ticket. That is well can't say it any other way but "SWEET".

By the way; my Dad was a Union Rep or Business Agent for IUOE Local 12. I know how the on again off again job thing works. It was Dad's job to keep the men working by searching out and getting rid of the scabs.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Jolly Roger said:


> Competition is what makes the world go round. As the saying goes; if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
> 
> Thanks for sharing the whole story with the rest of the forum. I guess I had a heads up with what was going on through PMs and had a perspective others were not able to see through. When you don't have an income $40 is a lot of money. And as the saying goes $40 saved is $40 earned. Kinda makes life sweeter when we can help out someone in need. Our govt. has taken that moral value away and shown everyone that it is the govt. that should be providing needs not us as individuals.
> 
> ...


Pretty tough to get rid of the scabs now when half the trades on the Job are Union and half aren't and all the trades are working for a non union General contractor. So who's the scabs now. I've been in the electrical trade for 40 years, a lot have changed.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## ShootnCoastie (Jan 26, 2015)

Jolly Roger said:


> Competition is what makes the world go round. As the saying goes; if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.


Ford Mustang vs. Chevrolet Camaro, Dodge Ram vs. Chevrolet Silverado, that's competition. When you go up against someone who is selling an exact copy of your hard work, that's not competition.

I've noticed that you point to the Pocket Predator website when someone is looking into a slingshot, but at the same time point to the eBay counterfeits when someone is looking at a SimpleShot design, i.e. post #48.

I wonder what ever happened to this 'quest, boycott, and *support*'.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/90770-chinese-slingshot-ordered-cant-wait/?p=977770


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

ShootnCoastie said:


> Jolly Roger said:
> 
> 
> > Competition is what makes the world go round. As the saying goes; if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
> ...


Exactly copying a ford is illegal, copying a slingshot that has no international copyright isn't. If no law is broken, then everything else is purely subjective. There are many laws I myself don't agree with, but I don't accuse those that do as immoral.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

China could care less about copyrights. Some people don't think stealing, cheating on their wife and child porn are immoral. But those are roads most people don't want to travel. Taking someones design and selling for profit rubs a lot of people the wrong way. Some could care less who steals from who.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Yeah, I did say that early on. I really only bought the Scout Clone because everyone started talking about how inferior it was and prone to break from fork hits without it having been tested. I decided to help prove that hypothesis but found it to be false once I attempted to destroy the frame without results. My idea certainly changed when I discovered I could get a quality product for such an affordable price. It is much less expensive for beginners to get their fork hits out of the way on a less expensive slingshot. I do have several PP knockoffs made by Tripwire and a couple of homemade PP clones I got in trades...but then again Bill has his templates posted here on the forum and isn't so picky about sharing his designs.



ShootnCoastie said:


> Jolly Roger said:
> 
> 
> > Competition is what makes the world go round. As the saying goes; if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen.
> ...


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm sure Bill Hays wouldn't be very happy if E-bay was selling clones of his Scorpions and Rangers at half the price and people on the forum were promoting buy them and not his.

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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Henry the Hermit said:


> I'm going to have to weigh in here. Unlicensed clones are (my personal opinion) theft of intellectual property. Some, such as SPS copies, are actually illegal in the U.S.
> 
> Now, Moderator hat on, whether you buy an unlicensed clone of one of Vendors' products is a matter between you and your personal values. Advocating buying clones of our Vendors' products is arguably an attack on Vendors and the Forum. Unfavorable comparisons between the price of clones vs Vendor prices is an attack on Vendors, in my opinion.
> 
> So guys, feel free to give advice to newcomers, but don't hurt the Forum by steering them away from our Vendors.


I know for certain that the patent on the on the SPS is for ANY slingshot with a metal core. I know Jim Harris would not go after an individual or small custom maker for using a metal core but he would certainly file a suite if they were being mass produced by a company. I do not know what attributes apply to the patent on the Scout. It's almost impossible to get a patent on the style or shape so I suspect the Scout patent is either on the "Flip Clips" or the over-molded handle. It would be interesting to know what the patent was actually given for. If it was for the "Flip Clips" the Chinese model would definitely be a violation of patent rights. If the patent covers the rubber over-molded handle only then there is no violation of patent law at all as it has no over-molded handle and therefore could be made legally in the USA as well. Again this is only speculation but I am fairly sure the patent would have been awarded for either or both of these attributes and not the style. Personally I think it should not be an exact copy. They could have offered a few improvements to the design such as taking the raised oval shapes off the handle area completely and molding in an easy grip texture to it.


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## 3danman (Mar 29, 2012)

Yikes, let's not scare away the new guy. Maybe you fellas could move the (ever ongoing) debate to a more relevant thread? Or a pm war instead?


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I don't think the new guy has been scared off....yet! Not everyone has come against him. Some have come to his defense. However, I do recall someone recently suggesting that this is the friendliest forum out there. So I can just imagine how this would be playing out on one of the other forums.


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

I'm under the impression that there're alliances here that we, mere mortals, will never know.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Won't allow me to copy and paste but the SS patent on the Hammer and its plugs is online. Shows only the one patent. No Scout patent shown. Of course U.S. patents do not apply outside the U.S. anyway.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jolly Roger said:


> Won't allow me to copy and paste but the SS patent on the Hammer and its plugs is online. Shows only the one patent. No Scout patent shown. Of course U.S. patents do not apply outside the U.S. anyway.


They sure don't apply in China for sure. They will copy anything they can make some money on and it's nothing new for sure. I have seen things copied that were even on the market before the original manufacture could get theirs to market. Some things they copy are not as good as the original and some things can and sometimes are superior. Often they will get an original design of something and research it's flaws and correct them on their copies. They do this in virtually every market. It may seem "new" to some here because until a couple of months ago I had never seen an American style slingshot copied. As far as patents go the only thing that sticks out on the Torque that I believe could qualify it for a patent is the honeycomb construction and the Chinese copy does copy that part as well so I feel fairly sure if the Torque holds any patents the Chinese copies most likely infringe on the patent but it would be impossible to get them to stop over a patent claim. Their government cares nothing about US patents at all.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Im not scared off, I'm currently playing far cry 5 with the wife, just unlocked, no lie, a slingshot as a weapon in a giant world FPS shooter. Ill be getting videos of me with it. You guys are all awesome. JR has really stepped up and welcomed me with open arms, I get that you guys are trying to protect your sponsors and the vendors and what not, but he was just giving me advice based off what he thought was would be my best move. He went above that, saw that I was hurting for money and decided to make me feel like i just won the freaking price is right. His view might not be the same as yours, but honestly he is one of the nicest dudes I've ever spoken with, and generous at that. You guys are all awesome, and have given me so much good advice, but to JR I owe you a giant Thank you for your kindness.

BTW! Can anyone tell me the differnce between the scout gen 1 and the scout gen 2? Which is the clone based off of?


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Wignorant said:


> Im not scared off, I'm currently playing far cry 5 with the wife, just unlocked, no lie, a slingshot as a weapon in a giant world FPS shooter. Ill be getting videos of me with it. You guys are all awesome. JR has really stepped up and welcomed me with open arms, I get that you guys are trying to protect your sponsors and the vendors and what not, but he was just giving me advice based off what he thought was would be my best move. He went above that, saw that I was hurting for money and decided to make me feel like i just won the freaking price is right. His view might not be the same as yours, but honestly he is one of the nicest dudes I've ever spoken with, and generous at that. You guys are all awesome, and have given me so much good advice, but to JR I owe you a giant Thank you for your kindness.
> 
> BTW! Can anyone tell me the differnce between the scout gen 1 and the scout gen 2? Which is the clone based off of?


Wish I could help you with the differences between the two model scouts. My original ones are gen 2 and I have never (to my knowledge) seen a gen 1. I am sure someone here knows what the differences are. I don't know if it was just a material change or something simple like that. Take my word Sir, you WILL be happy with it. As far as which one the copy is from I can say it looks like my gen 2 originals. The one thing it doesn't have that the originals do have is the over-molded rubber handle. It's a one piece molded frame. That may be a negative to some but the plastic handle sure slides in the pocket easier. I can fork hit most any frame on accident but it has never happened on either the Scout or Axiom. I am currently shooting both as OTT. With a little practice you will be shooting good in no time. I'll be the first to admit I am not an excellent shot by any means but I like to practice and I almost never shoot at anything larger than a golf ball. If I took my target size up just a touch I would get many more hits but I feel shooting at a small target will make me better in time but if I shoot a a target I can hit every time I won't be improving. I don't get to practice as much as I like but I practice when I can. Life will get better for you and someday you can buy any frame you like and as many as you like. That said your accuracy will improve faster if you stick with one frame. That is advise I give easy enough but I don't follow it like I should. It seems every time I get a new frame style I want to shoot it a while. I REALLY need to stay focused on one frame until I can score at least 9 out of 10 on the foam golf balls. Problem for me there are SO many interesting frames and so little time. You best get started on your catch box as you will want to recover as much of your steel balls as possible. If you build it right you can recover 100% and keep your shooting costs down.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Agreed, get started on the catch box before your slingshots arrive. You will be too excited to wait to shoot them when that package arrives. You can do a forum and you tube search for various suggestions for catch boxes or back drops. Just an old sheet or two doubled over a line is all that is really needed. And of course a good magnet on a lanyard or stick to retrieve your steel ammo. But with a box you can just pick it up out of the box.

I have a Gen. 1 Scout and a Gen. 2 Scout. Not a lot of noticeable difference. I read that the Gen. 2 is much stronger than the Gen. 1 which is why the Gen. 2 came about. But that Clone is plenty strong, stronger than anything I've seen.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Gen 1 Scout was made of a fiber glass composite material. The Gen 2 is a type of Polycarbonate type material. Supposed to be stronger.

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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Shout outs again to Jolly Roger, Slingtree78, and Makopat. I didn't mean to exclude you guys in my previous thank you at all!. You guys are showing me a level of kindness that I can not even beleive in a hour where I really freaking need it! My wife and I are smiling today more than we have in a long time. You guys are honestly the best community I have ever met online. It makes the sport that much more appealing to know there is the aspect of brotherhood. I cant wait till im back to work and making that union money again (should be soon) and my collection can really grow and I can pay the kindness you 3 have shown me forward.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Praise God. He is our answer to prayer and our provider. Sometimes he uses us little ones to help out a brother.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Any of you Union men want a Baltimore Pipefitters 486 sticker?

Im heading to Hall tommorow to yell at our BA about why hes not calling contractors to find me work.

My last 3 jobs have been out of town, which sucks! Except for the one where we built the water park at a RV resort, that we all stayed in, talk about a fun job!


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Quick question. When attaching bands with elastic, where do you guys buy your elastic from? Or can I just cut an section of a band into strips? Can I use rubber bands and just cut them?


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Wignorant said:


> Quick question. When attaching bands with elastic, where do you guys buy your elastic from? Or can I just cut an section of a band into strips? Can I use rubber bands and just cut them?


Yes . You got it . Cut old used bands into strips or office rubber bands will work . :thumbsup:


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

treefork said:


> Wignorant said:
> 
> 
> > Quick question. When attaching bands with elastic, where do you guys buy your elastic from? Or can I just cut an section of a band into strips? Can I use rubber bands and just cut them?
> ...


Alliance Sterling #107 office bands are great. One rubber band makes a complete set. Here's a link on how to use them and what to expect for performance. http://slingshotforum.com/topic/10254-alliance-107-rubber-band-tests/


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Thank you guys so much, I gotta find some cheap band sets and ammo now, looking for 3/8 and 1/4 anyone know any spots online that ship fairly quick that arent super expensive?


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Wignorant said:


> Quick question. When attaching bands with elastic, where do you guys buy your elastic from? Or can I just cut an section of a band into strips? Can I use rubber bands and just cut them?


 I think the band stock from GZK China is as good as it gets. You need to put together at least a total of $59 order to get free expedited shipping which I know will have to come later.

While you are at his site check out some of his slingshots. I have several and they are all very good. Many are sized right for Western shooters hands. I have 7 of them now and 6 more that just shipped. I got 4 of them from a US seller that to my knowledge is the only stocking US dealer for GZK slingshots. Many on the site are GZK's own design and some are models he just resells. He actually brokered a deal for me on a model that he does not stock. All I had to do was send a picture and he found it for me for a lot less money than I could get it for on my own. I will post some pictures of it when it gets here but it is really a radical design. May be a good one and may not be. I will have to find that out for myself. Some of the most radical Chinese designs are very good and some are more gimmick than function.

https://trade.onloon.net/detail?itemId=eac48ed0b0c048b0aba8b016204f1f62

In time you will want a band cutting jig, roller cutter and a band tying jig along with a good supply of pouches. I was fortunate to get a couple hundred excellent pouches from Jim Harris of Performance Catapults about a year ago. I make all my own now. It takes a little practice but in time you can make them every bit as good as you can buy them.

Nice YouTube Video on how to cut the tapered bands:


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I know I've only been at this for one year but I found myself scratching my head looking at the GZK web page. What thickness should one order? They have several thicknesses in various colors of band material. Not to mention it is all in metric instead of standard American measurements. I'm from the old school generation when we were taught American in school and didn't have the threat of the possibility of the metric system becoming a standard staring at us in school so we just learned what we needed to know. Thank goodness the push many years ago to go metric didn't take hold and we still have the old reliable yard stick. Another thing is the amount needed to place an order to get the free shipping .... does that outweigh the advantage of placing a local order for just a half dozen band sets. But it sure doesn't take long at $5 per band set to run up to the GZK minimum order requirement for free shipping.

I've tied several band sets but not confident enough with my results that I'm willing to send out The Big Iron or anything else with bands that I tied on them. Maybe it is high time that I get with the program and spend some time just cutting and tying band sets. There certainly are enough videos on you tube explaining the process and if you don't like one guys way of doing it there are a dozen other ways to do sort through. I probably could have tied several band sets already this morning with the time I've spent catching up with who posted what where and responding.

One thing I have concluded is that it is so much easier and cost effective to make one's own band tying jig than it is to order something online that costs five times or more as the components needed to make one. Actually two clamps with holes drilled in the handles and two L hooks screwed into the side of a table or bench top is all that is really needed. In fact as some have pointed out, one clamp is all that is necessary. If a more portable jig is desired screw the hooks into a small board and there you go. Or play copy cat and build your jig right smack dab on top of one of those cheap dollar store flat plastic boxes where you can store your bands, pouches and band tying tools.

I know some might be attracted to the slingshots displayed on GZK but I failed to see one that caught my eye. It has been a year for me now and I have finally learned what does and does not appeal to me so can slow down on my slingshot purchases and experimenting with various frame types. I can now concentrate on thinning down my collection rather than accumulating more slingshots that will not get shot as often as my favorites. In fact, the concept of shooting only one frame or two or three is beginning to grow on me. Just need to thin out the herd so it isn't so tempting to grab something different every morning as I make my first shot. I know that shooting just one or two slingshots has to result in better shooting and accuracy. Just so tempting to shoot four or five slingshots during the day.

I'd be happy with just my Big Iron, my Scorpions and the Ranger Bill gave me. As much as I like my Alley Cat and SPS, I never got as good at shooting them as I would like. But then I do enjoy shooting my little collection of A+ Slingshots and that little narrow forked TTF Nick Haggerty birch plywood frame is so much fun to shoot. Then I went and fell for the June Chalice Challenge and ended up with a cute Little Big Iron frame that I have been having a blast shooting. Always enjoy shooting my plastic Rambone and really enjoy the hand carved Rambone I traded Mr. Brooks out of. Certainly lots of fun to shoot that Chinese Scout that I banged up so much putting through the stress test. That one is a keeper as are all of the above. Whoa, can't forget those three beautiful pieces of art work I got from Percy's Creations on etsy. They are something totally unique and different in design. If you have not seen his pieces of slingshot art that is a must.....

Well this is all about the new guy. Guess what? One or two slingshots is all anyone needs and it is so easy to let your appetite run wild accumulating more slingshots all keeping you from becoming the best you can with what you have or have coming. If I were to do it over, I'd hang with a couple of slingshots for a year or so till I got really good with them before expanding my collection and maybe just being content with those first few shooters and resist the urge to have more.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Make an order for a few different size rolls from GZK to get free shipping. You can always sell or trade to someone on the forum that wants to try them.

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## ShootnCoastie (Jan 26, 2015)

Latex was sold at 0.030 inch and I believe Theraband Gold was also close to the 0.030 inch mark. You can work from there.

Using the unit converter below, 0.030 is equivalent to 0.76mm. I've been happy with the Precise Red at 0.70mm and Green at 0.60mm.

Millimeters to Inches (Convert Units) You can change the unit by using the drop downs.

https://www.bing.com/search?q=millimeter+to+inches&form=EDGEAR&qs=UC&cvid=37fc422650b24690b1af58fbbfa64e14&cc=US&setlang=en-US


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Thanks, I have googled conversions on occasion but it gets time consuming going to google every time I want to convert. I appreciate the recommendations on red and green as well as the TheraBand comparisons.


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

My turn to throw in my 1.5 cents.....

Buy your slingshots in a format that puts money into as may pockets of families that LIVE AND WORK IN THE USA. I am not referring to Jeff Bezos and Amazon.

Quality and value are critical needs, of which are easily discerned. If any consumer enjoys the quality of life and our attempts at creating a valuable economy and educational system in the USA then we ALL must save and spend what we can afford in our own country, in our own counties!

I have built my career on designing products that get ripped off by China and their sisters within 6 months. That timeline only changes during the Chinese New Year when they go party on all the money that I have given them. My life has been a race for my share of the pie that restarts twice every year.

The simple fact is that all of us need to contemplate buying your next pair of Nike Shoes for $300.00 at a shoe factory in Indiana, USA. One less trip to Starbutts each week and the price of that Scout or Scorpion becomes pointless with the exception of the continuous joy and satisfaction you will have hitting the target over and over and over.

Buy local but UNDERSTAND why you are doing it!! MM


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Wignorant said:


> Cjw said:
> 
> 
> > Get the Scout from Nathan.
> ...


I am not an account but do you also have to deduct the "$14 you spent on the crappy Amazon slingshot" you bought? I myself have only burned about $125.00 and a gnarly scar on my hand for thinking that I could forge my own slingpath. Now I am the first on the block to avoid a clone and the costs associated.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

The Norseman said:


> Don't get scared off please! They just do that when the topic of reals vs clones is brought up. Its one of the few things that will really get these guys going.


Boo! In my business I always ask....."Is your TV a clone, your Harley, your Food, is your kid a clone too?......Get Real---Don't Be A Clone. (My next t-shirt design). MM

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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Mojave Mo said:


> My turn to throw in my 1.5 cents.....
> 
> Buy your slingshots in a format that puts money into as may pockets of families that LIVE AND WORK IN THE USA. I am not referring to Jeff Bezos and Amazon.
> 
> ...


If I could find the quality of the GZK elastic locally I would buy locally unless the price was ridiculously higher. As much as you probably don't like to read it, China makes latex that is specifically made for slingshots and they do it very well. There is a good business opportunity out there for any company in the USA to make something of equal quality and sell it at a reasonable price. The product just simply doesn't exist made in the USA. That also goes for at least 90% of all personal electronic gadgets, phones, computers and household appliances. For most of these they are not made here even if you are willing to pay double price.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

And if I pay $300 for a pair of shoes I would expect them to be custom made.


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Mojave Mo said:
> 
> 
> > My turn to throw in my 1.5 cents.....
> ...


I don't disagree with survival at any cost...bargain if you will. Funny, if you take your post and replace the word Elastic with the word Opium, then the rest of it still fits fine. My choices are ultimately clouded by my Japanese/Cheyenne/German blood. Just Shoot It! (Nike would like that eh?)...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Jolly Roger said:


> And if I pay $300 for a pair of shoes I would expect them to be custom made.


Of course Jolly! A Custom American Craftworker, with. Custom American family living in Custom, IN (of all places) putting their kids through a Exceptional and Custom Designed and Taxpayer approved and supported Custom Educational System so that the US has any chance at all of surviving... anything. Sunscreen is actually comprised of Humanoid Elimination By-Products....stay inside, stay safe.

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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jolly Roger said:


> And if I pay $300 for a pair of shoes I would expect them to be custom made.


I have never bought a $300 pair of shoes of any sort. That just simply does not fit may needs versus budget.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Mojave Mo said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Mojave Mo said:
> ...


I think they pretty much shut all the sites down selling Chinese opium. I dare not Google it though. Not wanting the knock at the door a few weeks later


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Mojave Mo said:
> 
> 
> > Fiveshooter said:
> ...


PM me...I know a guy who knows a guy that had a cousin that smuggled Bic Lighters for a few years. He could only smuggle 6 or so at a time, but they were in high demand.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Hey aren't we talking slingshots here??????


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Jolly Roger said:


> Hey aren't we talking slingshots here??????


I doubt you could smuggle six slingshots Jolly, or anyone else for that matter.

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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Mojave Mo said:
> 
> 
> > Fiveshooter said:
> ...


For the very reason there is an address next door my friend.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jolly Roger said:


> Hey aren't we talking slingshots here?????


Couldn't little balls of Chinese opium be ammo? I don't really know what it looks like but I have heard it's pliable enough to roll into a ball. Maybe good for hunting rabbits. You miss and they eat the ball and just sit there waiting on you to stop by and pick em up.


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Jolly Roger said:
> 
> 
> > Hey aren't we talking slingshots here?????
> ...


That was funnier than mine by a long shot.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Mojave Mo said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Mojave Mo said:
> ...


I'm not asking where he hid the lighters. YIKES!!


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Slingshots?????????????


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Mojave Mo said:
> 
> 
> > Fiveshooter said:
> ...


Bingo my friend. Now Jolly has suggested that he smuggle slingshots instead, from what I am reading anyhow.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Mojave Mo said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Mojave Mo said:
> ...


I think it's a question in good humor but this would bring about a whole new acronym. We have TTF & OTT. and ITB. I better stop with that before the whole thread gets locked


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Well by Wed. Jack should have a package or three to open and share with us. That might get this thing back on track. And HONESTLY! I did not sneak anything non slingshot related into the box I sent.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

I cant express my gratitude enough for everyone who is helping me out, like its really putting a smile on my face in a time when I didn't think it was possible. my wifey is currently working up some ideas with her uncle who is a custom leather worker for some ideas for you fellas as gifts, especially the opium ammo JR!


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Wignorant said:


> I cant express my gratitude enough for everyone who is helping me out, like its really putting a smile on my face in a time when I didn't think it was possible. my wifey is currently working up some ideas with her uncle who is a custom leather worker for some ideas for you fellas as gifts, especially the opium ammo JR!


Oh my.... don't send out any opium. Getting caught putting that in the mail would be less fun than a fork hit with a frameless.


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## toygun (May 16, 2018)

I have a scout (my first from nathan) and an axiom ocularis (my second from nathan). In my opinion, the axiom is a more comfortable slingshot to shoot. It's insanely simple to set up and and no need to re-wrap a band to fine tune the lengths. Don't get me wrong, I really dig the scout too, but to me its a beast in size and just doesn't fit me like the axiom does. And with my comfort level at it's peak with the axiom, I found my accuracy has GREATLY increased.

You asked about finding ammo... you can always hit the slingshot/bb section of walmart and pick up some daisy ammo (multiple sizes and they have some .5in glass shot that kicks butt) but I usually go through BC precision... I find the prices and service to be great. link: https://www.bcprecision.com/

as for buying clones or cheap crap from distant lands... I've found I usually get what i pay for. I love knowing if something goes wrong with my rig that Nathan is just an email away and he has always responded and made anything wrong, better than right- and quickly. Excellent customer service is priceless imo.

To be honest, if money is an issue- DIY is the way to go.

EDIT!! I almost forgot, welcome to your new support group for your new found addiction.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

I was able to return a few things back to amazon that i bought without researching to get a 20$ credit, I found a seller that had 1000 3/8 and 500 1/4 for $20. Currently in the process of turning a corner of the back yard into a small shooting range. Toygun, I plan on getting the ocularis when i have some more money. I talked to my union hall today and it looks like the job i was hopinhg to get put on is getting pushed back farther on the calendar. Without the community I would not be able to do anything right now.


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

I found the best place to shoot for me i think. its about a 10 minute drive to a park with lit tennis courts. Im gonna take some clothes pins, some line, and hang it up, hang another line, and some targets off it. I had a question for you guys. Through an awesome turn of events, I ended up getting my refund for the wrist rocket and the seller told me I could keep it, if i gave it a positive review with a video. he also just sent me a setup for shooting small arrows, and all the bands needed for it, as well as 5 arrows for i guess fishing?

Either way, whats the proper way to shoot a wrist rocket? I know "gangster style" is preferred for normals, but I I was playing far cry 5 earlier which as a slingshot as weapon and when sighting it you line up the middle with your pull and hold it vertical if that makes sense. Well i tried shooting that way and I was WAY more accurate with it. Thoughts??

Also, getting this guy as soon as i get some money for my trap. 
https://www.dickssportinggoods.com/p/do-all-outdoors22-triple-spinning-target-16dtra22spnnrtrgttgs/16dtra22spnnrtrgttgs?recid=search_PageElement_search_rr_4_2750_&rrec=true


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Shout out to SamuraiSamoht for the awesome advice and help hes giving me as well! Awesome dude, full of knowldege, check out his video for tying pouches with no jig needed.


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## Jonesy22 (Feb 14, 2018)

Dont take the chance of someone in China not making quota and you losing eye...get quality product. Start off with scout, it's versatile with any grip..you can go from there...good luck!


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

He has a package in the mail that should be arriving tomorrow. He'll be set for frames for awhile. Looking forward to reviews of the various slingshots in future posts.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

toygun said:


> I have a scout (my first from nathan) and an axiom ocularis (my second from nathan). In my opinion, the axiom is a more comfortable slingshot to shoot. It's insanely simple to set up and and no need to re-wrap a band to fine tune the lengths. Don't get me wrong, I really dig the scout too, but to me its a beast in size and just doesn't fit me like the axiom does. And with my comfort level at it's peak with the axiom, I found my accuracy has GREATLY increased.
> 
> You asked about finding ammo... you can always hit the slingshot/bb section of walmart and pick up some daisy ammo (multiple sizes and they have some .5in glass shot that kicks butt) but I usually go through BC precision... I find the prices and service to be great. link: https://www.bcprecision.com/
> 
> ...


I buy all my steel at the same place. I was going through it like crazy until I finally came up with the right backing in my catch barrels to catch and save 100%. Now I think a 1,000 would last me years just shooting into my catch barrel. They made me a really good deal on a 10,000 lot delivered so I am set for a long time to come. With that many I feel comfortable just shooting them out and about when the mood strikes. You wouldn't believe how many bounce outs I was getting before I figured out that hanging a single tight weave pillow case only in the barrel would stop them and drop them gently in the barrel. Once I got that figured out I have to miss the whole barrel to lose a steel ball. Missing a whole barrel at 10 meters my sound hard to do but I have to admit, it has happened


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Seems a lot more appealing in sight than old T-Shirts or Jeans. I've been using a towel.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Wignorant said:


> I found the best place to shoot for me i think. its about a 10 minute drive to a park with lit tennis courts. Im gonna take some clothes pins, some line, and hang it up, hang another line, and some targets off it. I had a question for you guys. Through an awesome turn of events, I ended up getting my refund for the wrist rocket and the seller told me I could keep it, if i gave it a positive review with a video. he also just sent me a setup for shooting small arrows, and all the bands needed for it, as well as 5 arrows for i guess fishing?
> 
> Either way, whats the proper way to shoot a wrist rocket? I know "gangster style" is preferred for normals, but I I was playing far cry 5 earlier which as a slingshot as weapon and when sighting it you line up the middle with your pull and hold it vertical if that makes sense. Well i tried shooting that way and I was WAY more accurate with it. Thoughts??
> 
> ...


Just so you know, Dick's has boarded the gun control train.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/18/business/guns-dicks-sporting-goods.html


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## toygun (May 16, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> toygun said:
> 
> 
> > I have a scout (my first from nathan) and an axiom ocularis (my second from nathan). In my opinion, the axiom is a more comfortable slingshot to shoot. It's insanely simple to set up and and no need to re-wrap a band to fine tune the lengths. Don't get me wrong, I really dig the scout too, but to me its a beast in size and just doesn't fit me like the axiom does. And with my comfort level at it's peak with the axiom, I found my accuracy has GREATLY increased.
> ...


Lol i'm pricing ammo this morning. price per round between nathan's sale on 3/8 1700x for $35 vs BC's price 1000x for $20.

I also need to rebuild my catch box. I was thinking portability and storage when not in use when designing mine...I'm getting about 80-90% of my 1/4 and .177 back (disappears in the grass) and nearly all of my larger ammo back BUT i'm getting tons of bounce back. At first i thought it was the depth of it but now i'm thinking the cloth needs to be weighted at the bottom due to my design. The blue is the fabric and its made out of 1x2 and wooden dowels... sort of like a folding drying rack for sweaters and such.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Weighting the cloth at the bottom will most likely cause more bounce outs by making your back cloth act like a spring. My barrels have a single tight weave Walmart (black) pillow case suspended straight down from the top center. On impact, the fabric is free to be knocked back and when it does it flips both bottom corners up and forms a momentary funnel that drops all the balls into the bottom of the barrel. I thought the pillow case would tear up fast but after thousands of shots they are still like new. As long as the ball enters the opening where the target is hanging the balls are all caught 100% of the time.

It took me a lot of experimentation to find a hanging material stop that could save all my balls but I am finally there. Unless you use a very small barrel to start with they are far from portable.

I've only had 55 and 35 gallon HDPE barrels to work with thus far but my friend gave me a 20 gallon tall one that I will eventually get around to making a catch barrel from. I am on the lookout for even smaller barrels and he can get them from time to time shaped exactly like the bigger ones.

Her are the two sizes I make now.


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## toygun (May 16, 2018)

Those look awesome. I'm going to be on the look out for a barrel now. I have a few friends in the restaurant industry- I'll ask them if they can get their hands on one or two. I was considering a wooden box but this might be a better option.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

toygun said:


> Those look awesome. I'm going to be on the look out for a barrel now. I have a few friends in the restaurant industry- I'll ask them if they can get their hands on one or two. I was considering a wooden box but this might be a better option.


Don't store the in direct sunlight and they can last many years. No matter what you won't shoot though it with a slingshot. It's even hard to get a minor dent with a straight on hit to the outside. The stuff is very thick. I put LED lighting in the top of all mine and it really lights the little foam golf ball up against the black backdrop. Great for night shooting. You just need a drill, jigsaw with a wood blade, 3/8" threaded rod with 4 nuts and washers if you choose to use washers, 3 clamps. 2 pad eyes meant for kayaks that you can screw or rivet on and some Parachord. Mine all use stainless hardware as I HATE rusted anything.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jonesy22 said:


> Dont take the chance of someone in China not making quota and you losing eye...get quality product. Start off with scout, it's versatile with any grip..you can go from there...good luck!


I hate to burst yer bubble but they are plenty strong and safe to shoot. I have very heavy bands on mine and have complete confidence in it being safe. There have even been some put in catch boxes and shot at. You are passing judgment on something you do not own or have any experience with at all. There are some really AWESOME original designs coming out of China now and the sun doesn't rise or set on Simple Shot alone. You can't say I haven't supported Simple Shot as I have probably spent more there in the last year than most do in five or ten. I still spend a lot of money on good Chinese designs though. If that bothers anyone then I can only say I earn my money and I will spend it where I like. I would never presume to tell anyone else how or where they should spend their money. It's not like I would care either way what anyone says or thinks. That kind of advice is worth what I paid for it... nothing.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jonesy22 said:


> Dont take the chance of someone in China not making quota and you losing eye...get quality product. Start off with scout, it's versatile with any grip..you can go from there...good luck!


Oh you mean it could break like this original Scout did??

https://slingshotforum.com/topic/42603-ocularis-vs-scout-fork-width/


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Let's just keep up the Simple Shot bashing . I guess it's how some of you get your rocks off.

And I believe that was a gen 1 Scout and Nathan completely changed the material to make his product safer. I have 6 Gen 1 Scouts and never had a problem. But than I don't spend my time fork hitting them.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

If posting a picture of an actual occurrence is bashing consider me guilty as charged.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

I you read the topic they call it a second generation. Most likely a bubble in the molded part but that is only a guess. I know the new material is very strong but there can be hidden defects inside any molded part no matter who made it.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Fiveshooter said:


> If posting a picture of an actual occurrence is bashing consider me guilty as charged.


 If you don't what to shoot Nathan's products I don't give a Rats A-s. Plenty of people around the world like his stuff . I'm sure he can afford the loss of your business.
I shoot a SPS so I have no horse in this race . But Simple Shots has been a great vendor.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Funny,

I spent almost $1300 dollars at Simple Shot in the last year and a half. I like his products. They are not the only ones out there though Mr Nathan Fanboy


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Ok China  fan boy.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Have a good evening


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Not really worth responding to the Trolls.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Takes one to know one.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Good Night


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Cjw said:


> Ok China  fan boy.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I don't think that he is a china fan boy, having spent so much money on simple shot.
Fiveshooter, obviously, just doesn't like simple shot's marketing path.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

skropi said:


> Cjw said:
> 
> 
> > Ok China  fan boy.
> ...


Thank you. I do buy a lot of stuff from China, Pro Shot, Pocket Predator, I bought 5 SPSs in one month from Jim Harris and would buy more if I could get the same type with G-10 over stainless as he used to make. I really like Jim and wish he could get the old style SPS back out to us. I would love to have more of them. I will still buy from Simple Shot but only when or if I want or need something. You are correct about my being unhappy about their marketing email path. If you have been a loyal customer for years and open your email to read one stating if you don't log on and buy something in "X" number of days your "Gold VIP Status" will be lost. I read it as a threat to buy now or you are a less valued customer regardless of how much you may have purchased the month before or the year before. Quite frankly I can do without it. I am still willing to buy from Simple Shot but only on my terms. I don't really care if I may have missed some special incentive deal or not. I just think it should be my choice as to when I buy so as far as I am concerned I don't want any emails from them and I don't want to participate in their "Gold VIP" customer status at all. Simple Shot has some great designs and I already have multiples of the ones I like best. I expect there will be some new ones coming down the pike in the future. If I see something I like I will buy it. I no longer need anyone for bands, pouches and supplies but I am always on the lookout for nice frames and the brand on them doesn't matter to me. I guess to sum it up I don't only support a single source for anything unless they are the only source. I think if Simple Shot could set back and read the email I am referring from the view of a customer they may change it it up somewhat so it doesn't come off so much like a threat if you don't log on and buy withing a given number of days. Then again it may be working for them. Either way I have already let them know I do not wish to receive such an email again. If you folks are okay with the emails that is for you to decide and you only. It just rubbed me the wrong way in a big way.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Jim Harris will make you what ever custom SPS you want. It just won't be Quick.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Fiveshooter said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > Cjw said:
> ...


 But it's really no different than E-bay or Amazon when you look something up and than you constantly have e-mails saying your going to miss out or that there's this many left of that item. It's a sign of the times.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Cjw said:


> Jim Harris will make you what ever custom SPS you want. It just won't be Quick.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I spoke with him a few days ago and he was out of G-10. It is expensive to buy by the sheet. I have been contemplating about buying enough at one time to make it worth his while to make me enough to use a couple full sheets. The black G-10 with red or orange liners and the same colors in reverse are my favorites for looks although they are all good shooters. I just need to let my budget catch up to my wants and I will get it done with full payment in advance. I already have black with red liners, black with orange liners and orange with black liners... but you can't have too many 

I also have one in OD green with black liners and a couple that are black with black liners. I think the black ones really benefit from a contrasting liner though as far as looks go the contrast makes them "pop". I would have to say of all of them the black G-10 with orange liners is my favorite in the looks department.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Time is clicking away. Just watch the countdown on the clock as it ticks away letting you know if you don't hurry we'll up the price and you'll have to pay more than you would if you got your order in right now. But never worry, if you loose your Golden Boy status you can easily gain it back if you place several large enough orders often enough. Sign of the times isn't an excuse for spamming customers or goading to make another purchase.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jolly Roger said:


> Time is clicking away. Just watch the countdown on the clock as it ticks away letting you know if you don't hurry we'll up the price and you'll have to pay more than you would if you got your order in right now. But never worry, if you loose your Golden Boy status you can easily gain it back if you place several large enough orders often enough. Sign of the times isn't an excuse for spamming customers or goading to make another purchase.


I find it a shame as I really enjoyed getting notifications of new products. It is however easy enough to go to the site and look every now and then. I honestly have nothing against the company or any of their products. When I got back into this hobby (obsession) Simple Shot was the first place I found and bought from. I have been pleased with every model I have bought. The picture of the broken Scout means nothing. Any molded part can have a hidden defect and if you produce enough of them one is bound to get out. That goes for every single maker of molded shapes. All it takes is a hidden bubble inside at just the right place to cause a breakage. The broken Scout in the picture was replaced by Simple Shot and nobody was harmed.

I think it is possible that such a thing could happen to a Pocket Predator as well. It hasn't happened yet to my knowledge but if thousands of frames are being molded the possibility always exists for any maker. I think it's more important how the maker makes it right than that it can happen and Simple Shot did make it right. Bill would as well if such a thing ever happened.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I think the only way not to be hounded by businesses today is just don't give out your E-mail address. Because if their marketing practices didn't work they wouldn't be doing it. So it must be working. If even half the people like it their money ahead.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

When I bought the Scout I began recieving SImpleShot emails and offers. I found that the automatic unsubscribe link wasn't unsubscribing me properly, so I sent a request through the Contact Form asking please unsbuscribe me from the list. Voilá, no more emails.

Mr. Nathan should only fix that unsubscribe link. One click, no more heavy marketing. Not such a big issue.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

What bothers me more is when I get home from work and the mail box at the house is crammed with junk mail every day. Can't block that.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Cjw said:


> What bothers me more is when I get home from work and the mail box at the house is crammed with junk mail every day. Can't block that.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


That makes for good fire starter material for Saturday's BBQ.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Cjw said:


> I think the only way not to be hounded by businesses today is just don't give out your E-mail address. Because if their marketing practices didn't work they wouldn't be doing it. So it must be working. If even half the people like it their money ahead.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I have no doubt whatsoever it works for some if not many customers. As far as giving out my email address, I can't order anything inline without giving out an email address it's catch 22. Many vendors send you a confirmation of your order and several send you every offer you could think of. I get a new email from some literally daily.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Cjw said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > skropi said:
> ...


Amazon tops the list. Not a day goes by I don't get a least two "more products you may like" emails.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jonesy22 said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > [quote name="Jonesy22" post="1225810" timestamp="1529459546"]
> ...


So you admit to having the China Scout look alike? If not you don't have any experience with it so I stand by my statement.

I also would not stoop to calling you "stupid"


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## Jonesy22 (Feb 14, 2018)

Fiveshooter said:


> Dont take the chance of someone in China not making quota and you losing eye...get quality product. Start off with scout, it's versatile with any grip..you can go from there...good luck!


I hate to burst yer bubble but they are plenty strong and safe to shoot. I have very heavy bands on mine and have complete confidence in it being safe. There have even been some put in catch boxes and shot at. You are passing judgment on something you do not own or have any experience with at all. There are some really AWESOME original designs coming out of China now and the sun doesn't rise or set on Simple Shot alone. You can't say I haven't supported Simple Shot as I have probably spent more there in the last year than most do in five or ten. I still spend a lot of money on good Chinese designs though. If that bothers anyone then I can only say I earn my money and I will spend it where I like. I would never presume to tell anyone else how or where they should spend their money. It's not like I would care either way what anyone says or thinks. That kind of advice is worth what I paid for it...

You pass the same judgement on me when saying I have no experience with them...I cant fix stupid...[/quote]
So you admit to having the China Scout look alike? If not you don't have any experience with is so I stand by my statement.[/quote]

You showed why I stated what I did too...I stand by mine too...now didnt we get far with this! You guys can go back to simpleshot bashing now....


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Jonesy22 said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Jonesy22 said:
> ...


Have a good day Sir.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Wignorant said:


> I cant express my gratitude enough for everyone who is helping me out, like its really putting a smile on my face in a time when I didn't think it was possible. my wifey is currently working up some ideas with her uncle who is a custom leather worker for some ideas for you fellas as gifts, especially the opium ammo JR!


 Pm me your address and I'll send you a Torque from Simple Shot and a couple other Slingshots. I'll. Send you a couple of looped tube sets and a couple of flat band sets with them.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

This whole thread started with a very nice guy that needed something to shoot but due to circumstances beyond his control has a very limited budget, A couple of fine members stepped up to get him what he needs to get started. I have no doubt he is very thankful for the help and will in time be able to post valuable information that some or most of us can benefit from. Unfortunately the thread has deteriorated into a vast difference of opinions and moral values. None of which are helpful to the original poster. If ever there was a thread we could have done over this is it. For the guys that stepped up I am thankful you took the initiative to help a newcomer get through some tough times and your efforts are the best examples of what good a group such as this can do.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

Cjw said:


> Wignorant said:
> 
> 
> > I cant express my gratitude enough for everyone who is helping me out, like its really putting a smile on my face in a time when I didn't think it was possible. my wifey is currently working up some ideas with her uncle who is a custom leather worker for some ideas for you fellas as gifts, especially the opium ammo JR!
> ...


Hat's off to you Sir. That is what it's really all about. Shooters helping shooters.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Was going through my stash and so you don't have to by a clone I'm going to send you a Black Widow Scout with Black Simpleshot bands and Flip clips. So happy shooting when it all shows up

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

skropi said:


> Fiveshooter said:
> 
> 
> > Ordo said:
> ...


I unsubscribed twice already and even contacted them directly. Apparently the unsubscribe button doesn't work and neither does contacting them directly. This leaves me the only choice of marking their emails as spam. This one came this morning. For those of you that enjoy getting these I'm happy for you. For those of you that find them offensive you can understand my feelings. I don't need or want a threat that I must buy something in a given number of days or be a less valuable customer.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Cjw said:


> Was going through my stash and so you don't have to by a clone I'm going to send you a Black Widow Scout with Black Simpleshot bands and Flip clips. So happy shooting when it all shows up
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


I did send him an Orange Scout like he mentioned in his original post in addition to the Scout Clone so he could get a fair comparison of the two frames. I should have had the both banded alike. Also sent him a Big Iron and smaller steel frame for the wife.

Sent from my VS988 using Tapatalk


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## Wignorant (Jun 16, 2018)

Jolly Roger said:


> Cjw said:
> 
> 
> > Was going through my stash and so you don't have to by a clone I'm going to send you a Black Widow Scout with Black Simpleshot bands and Flip clips. So happy shooting when it all shows up
> ...


I love EVERYTHING you sent brother. We've been calling the ladies the Little iron, she started an amazing wrap job on it, adding a pistol loop to the grip it's awesome and I can't wait to shoot it when its done. We used dollar store Cotten twine just to see what would come of it. Pics incoming this weekend.

As for comparing the two scouts. I'm having some issues with the bands I cut but for build quality they are both made amazingly. I don't want to speak without knowing for sure but it looks like there is a slight separation where the handle meets the frame on the real scout. I could just be overanazyling but it felt like there was a VERY small amount of play in it. Cjw is generous enough to send me the black widow scout (the one color I wanted to find but couldn't, in addition to 3 other AMAZING frames and bands coming Monday. As well as Samurais mystery package!

This forum has shown me a different side to the human race honestly. I hope to meet you guys next year at the east coast comp as it's only 3 hours away. You guys have taught me so much and given me so much in under a week. I went from a broke dude looking for the cheapest clone for my gf and I to share, to having my pick of what I wanted to shoot. I can't wait to post these pics. You guys are amazing don't be so harsh on "scaring away the new guy" after the welcome you showed me. I'm here for the long haul. Now if you'll excuse me, my indoor range is calling me. (That's right i went crazy and built two ranges)

That all being said. Thank you for giving me something to do to take my mind off the money troubles and keep me active and off the couch. I love having the small range in the basement it gives me the chance to blow off some steam and the time flys. 5 hours down there by accident last night.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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