# Torstens Butterfly Bands



## akmslingshots

have been watching Torstens EPIC 100 metre shooting and band speeds, have followed his tutorial and made some bands and a tiny pouch I hope will be optimum for fast butterfly

I never thought, is this setup for 8mm or smaller, maybe even 6?


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## newconvert

really depends on you and the feeling you sense from them, from what i have picked up so far its best to just practice form and style at first. the green bands are weaker than my black, and they are both fast and sweet shooting, so the blacks will shoot anything with authority, just are faster, the larger of course more energy, another time when i wish i had a chrony. but i think you wil find the greens adequate for your needs at the moment. have fun!


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## akmslingshots

found part 2 of his test, the answer is 7.5mm for this band setup, close enough to 8 for me


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## akmslingshots

newconvert said:


> really depends on you and the feeling you sense from them, from what i have picked up so far its best to just practice form and style at first. the green bands are weaker than my black, and they are both fast and sweet shooting, so the blacks will shoot anything with authority, just are faster, the larger of course more energy, another time when i wish i had a chrony. but i think you wil find the greens adequate for your needs at the moment. have fun!


its just to experiment to be honest, my accuracy has picked up loads today thanks to Hawk commenting on a vid i posted, but would really like to find something that does not bother my wrists and still super fast, hence this setup, It means I can potentially shoot for long periods without discomfort at range

just need to be able to hit the targets next


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## newconvert

and you are a youngun! lol, wait to you gat a few more years under your belt,, thats why i shoot gangsta, much easier on the wrist! even my trials with butterfly with the howitzer are gangsta, no pain all gain!


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## akmslingshots

newconvert said:


> and you are a youngun! lol, wait to you gat a few more years under your belt,, thats why i shoot gangsta, much easier on the wrist! even my trials with butterfly with the howitzer are gangsta, no pain all gain!


still very much a noob my friend









have just accidently punched a hole through several sides of a stout cardboard box and straight in/through the wall in my kitchen... youngun indeedy sir!! Im gonna struggle hiding that from the missus


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## Danny0663

Sweet stance you have there!

Never had any luck with butterfly shooting








/jealous.


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## newconvert

Danny0663 said:


> Sweet stance you have there!
> 
> Never had any luck with butterfly shooting
> 
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> /jealous.


you are right danny! good form! speaking of younguns lol


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## pop shot

Toyota fan are we? nice form


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## akmslingshots

Danny0663 said:


> Sweet stance you have there!
> 
> Never had any luck with butterfly shooting
> 
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> /jealous.


I might not yet lol, the only practice i have had so far is with 40mm gold bands that were too powerful to learn with, I'm hoping this might be worth the time


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## Danny0663

> Toyota fan are we?


I was actually thinking the same thing









TRD tat ?


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## newconvert

of course this is just me................ but for comfort and reduced wrist/hand strain i love the Hays style gangsta style shooters, no bracing involved, just wrap your hand around the sling and go.


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## newconvert

pop shot said:


> Toyota fan are we? nice form


 JEEP baby!


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## akmslingshots

pop shot said:


> Toyota fan are we? nice form


nicely spotted sir!! I have a heavily modded ST185 hibernating in the garage


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## akmslingshots

newconvert said:


> of course this is just me................ but for comfort and reduced wrist/hand strain i love the Hays style gangsta style shooters, no bracing involved, just wrap your hand around the sling and go.


do you have a picture, I'm a little confused by gansta style?


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## Jim Williams

Gangsta style is when you hold the catapult sideways


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## newconvert

akmslingshots said:


> of course this is just me................ but for comfort and reduced wrist/hand strain i love the Hays style gangsta style shooters, no bracing involved, just wrap your hand around the sling and go.


do you have a picture, I'm a little confused by gansta style?
[/quote]


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## akmslingshots

Sling Jim said:


> and you are a youngun! lol, wait to you gat a few more years under your belt,, thats why i shoot gangsta, much easier on the wrist! even my trials with butterfly with the howitzer are gangsta, no pain all gain!


I understand better now, have noticed the side shooting gansta style much easier on the wrist.. I now know the correct terminology


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## Charles

I am an aimer ... shoot with a sideways hold. I have not been shooting full butterfly for very long ... maybe a few weeks. However, I aim in basically the same way as with shorter bands. I am only slightly less accurate with full butterfly than with a hold behind the ear, but then maybe that says something non-complimentary about my general shooting abilities!!!







I think my butterfly shooting is improving and will get better with practise. I like the lighter draw and higher speeds.

Cheers ... Charles


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## bullseyeben!

Looks like a good band cut mate, haven't tried green, but I have good results with blue.. good job..


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## mr.joel

Is the Scorpion a thumb braced or thumb wrapped affair?


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## newconvert

mr.joel said:


> Is the Scorpion a thumb braced or thumb wrapped affair?


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## mr.joel

That would be thumb wrapped in my mind. Does this hold differ on the SEAL Sniper? It would seem the thumb wrapped hold lends itself to more powerful bands while the braced hold gives better control with lighter band/bullet combinations. I guess I am used to using the braced method as I have up until now used the latter.

Your thoughts? Anyone....?Anyone...?Bueller.....?Bueller.....?






(I hope I'm not boring you)


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## newconvert

thumb wrapped? all fingers are holding, the sniper has the thumb bracing the ss. all fingers holding is stronger for me, since its in the gangsta style, even hamer grip for me is best done gangsta.


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## mr.joel

Yes thumb wrapped: as in the thumb wraps around the slingshot. I don't have another reference point? I agree it's a stronger hold, it just feels awkward to me. Perhaps I just need the right frame?

The thumb braced style is very comfortable and seems to give a good flip action, but fatigues the thumb quickly with ferstout bands. Perhaps this is why you see this hold more often with people like Torsten who typically shoots lighter bands and ammo.


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## newconvert

yu


mr.joel said:


> Yes thumb wrapped: as in the thumb wraps around the slingshot. I don't have another reference point? I agree it's a stronger hold, it just feels awkward to me. Perhaps I just need the right frame?
> 
> The thumb braced style is very comfortable and seems to give a good flip action, but fatigues the thumb quickly with ferstout bands. Perhaps this is why you see this hold more often with people like Torsten who typically shoots lighter bands and ammo.


exactly fatigue! the thumb brace while comfortable does wear against the thumb, wrapping the fingers is as natural for me as holding a ball (no comments) it takes just a little bit of practice to get the hand used to being open and grabbing at the same time, but once you get it? you got it!


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## pop shot

I think Joel is referring to thumb/forefinger pinch (like your scorpion) vs thumb braced (like your seal sniper


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## newconvert

pop shot said:


> I think Joel is referring to thumb/forefinger pinch (like your scorpion) vs thumb braced (like your seal sniper


yes i know, i tried to explain the difference, the thumb finger grip is more comfy for me as opposed to bracing with the thumb thanks PS


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## pop shot

This has turned into an epic hijack.


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## akmslingshots

pop shot said:


> This has turned into an epic hijack.


hmmm... on the original note, the bands are nothing like i was hoping for... i think with 6mm steel these bands would seriously rock

However I have discovered the liking of butterfly style, to the point that some black theraband will have to be ordered and a set of bands from Torsten's tutorial will have to be made, in the triple layer butterfly. The one he uses to shoot at 100m with what I believe is 9.5mm Wrong I re-watched the vid its 8mm

the trajectory must be super flat = super accurate


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## newconvert

akmslingshots said:


> This has turned into an epic hijack.


hmmm... on the original note, the bands are nothing like i was hoping for... i think with 6mm steel these bands would seriously rock

However I have discovered the liking of butterfly style, to the point that some black theraband will have to be ordered and a set of bands from Torsten's tutorial will have to be made, in the triple layer butterfly. The one he uses to shoot at 100m with what I believe is 9.5mm Wrong I re-watched the vid its 8mm

the trajectory must be super flat = super accurate
[/quote]I am using the black, 38 x 25 x 308 tie to tie, 9.5 flat out sings, it hits the back of my catch box and pops back out, and i'm not at my full 56" draw yet!


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## pop shot

Andy- do you have a link to the 100 m vid?


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## mr.joel

I use 8mm(.32) lead with those bands and they do shoot flat. Never tried the green though. This ball is a really penetrates well, although not so powerful hits compared to larger sizes obviously. You really don't want to get carried away with power with these or you shred the bands.


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## newconvert

pop shot said:


> Andy- do you have a link to the 100 m vid?


this might be what you are looking for


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## akmslingshots

above is the video for the bands,

the video i was referring to with regards to Torstens flat shooting is






too shoot at this range the trajectory must be super flat


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## mr.joel

Well, not necessarily...You could shoot at 700 yards with a 45/70 the same as you could with a 6mm Swedish Mauser. With the larger bore you just have to get good at compensating for drop and slight range changes affect the rainbow trajectory more. The analogy would work the same here I would think. Certainly a flatter trajectory would be more optimal.


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## M.J

mr.joel said:


> Well, not necessarily...You could shoot at 700 yards with a 45/70 the same as you could with a 6mm Swedish Mauser. With the larger bore you just have to get good at compensating for drop and slight range changes affect the rainbow trajectory more. The analogy would work the same here I would think. Certainly a flatter trajectory would be more optimal.


I was going to say this same thing but without all the firearm references.
As I recall Tex-Shooter is very accurate shooting 1/2" steel at like 170fps even at longer distances. If the drop is predictable than you can compensate for it
Super flat only equals super accurate if you are.


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## akmslingshots

M_J said:


> Well, not necessarily...You could shoot at 700 yards with a 45/70 the same as you could with a 6mm Swedish Mauser. With the larger bore you just have to get good at compensating for drop and slight range changes affect the rainbow trajectory more. The analogy would work the same here I would think. Certainly a flatter trajectory would be more optimal.


I was going to say this same thing but without all the firearm references.
As I recall Tex-Shooter is very accurate shooting 1/2" steel at like 170fps even at longer distances. If the drop is predictable than you can compensate for it
Super flat only equals super accurate if you are.
[/quote]

I %100 agree with both statements, having shot firearms/airguns/arrows/paintball markers/airsoft all extensively.

I see Torsten shooting in this video and the angles in which he is aiming look very flat for the range, with a double tapered hunting style band setup firing a 12mm lead the holdover would have to be huge at that kind of range.

I like the idea of a super flat high speed trajectory, after all, at closer ranges the reference points for aiming are much smaller and less dramatic making hitting the target easier due to the removal of drop compensation.

There are members of this forum and others that are insanely accurate! but Torsten reigns supreme at extreme range, for such simplistic style and the grace in his technique, I would like to emulate the equipment, I think a slingshot will have to be made more in a boardcut style specifically for this research over the next couple of days. At least if this variable is sorted the rest can be down to muscle training and technique.

I believe he is using single bands and after asking on youtube thinks the taper was 26-13mm at 27cm length.

I have searched the forum for a list of taper/band/ammo combinations but to no avail, does one exist I have missed?

in a firearm reference I would choose a .17HMR over .22 rimfire for the exact reasons discussed, flatter trajectory = less to think about while controlling other factors. While in the forces I chose the LSW over the A2 again for same reasons, longer barrel, flatter trajectory, more accuracy

this is all assuming i can shoot lol, it may turn out that all i will do is hit the back of my hand or my ear and never go back to butterfly again


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## mr.joel

newconvert said:


> I think Joel is referring to thumb/forefinger pinch (like your scorpion) vs thumb braced (like your seal sniper


yes i know, i tried to explain the difference, the thumb finger grip is more comfy for me as opposed to bracing with the thumb thanks PS
[/quote]Gee I thought I was quite clear

Frogman uses full butterfly with a 14mm lead ball and heavy tubes in full butterfly, I don't know the range but he takes a lot of game. Most people that hunt use bigger ammo as the little guys don't seem to cut it. The exception would be .32 lead on birds-it has been said by Jeff(stf) to penetrate feathers better and often more of a consistent killer on birds, sometimes the bigger stuff deflects off the soft feather armor. I haven't killed anything with them so I can't say for sure.


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## akmslingshots

mr.joel said:


> Frogman uses full butterfly with a 14mm lead ball and heavy tubes in full butterfly, I don't know the range but he takes a lot of game.


holy sh!t.. they must be some strong bands, I have 40mm singles set up butterfly on another slingshot and they take some pulling, never mind aiming!!

wonder what band set up he uses


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## mr.joel

They are super ferstout, surely. One person who tried them out ended up lifting weights to use them more effectively. I call them the nuclear tubes of death.


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## akmslingshots

mr.joel said:


> They are super ferstout, surely. One person who tried them out ended up lifting weights to use them more effectively. I call them the nuclear tubes of death.










brilliant, really curious now though


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## mr.joel

You'll have to talk to him on the RSSF forum about them, he's not here anymore. He took a small deer with them years ago with them while teaching a class on extended field craft skills to the military.


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## pop shot

i'd start light.


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## akmslingshots

mr.joel said:


> i'd start light.


yeah, gonna start with thera black and 8mm, unless I can find a tried and tested taperfor thera gold and 9.5mm as have loads of that particular ammo


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## torsten

Hello!

The green band set was for 7,5mm steel balls.
The black, single layer band was for 8mm steel.

But the speed was only around 100 - 110m/s. Not THAT spectacular.

Actually I shoot with these bands
For 8mm steel I use blue TB, 24mm to 9mm, cut to 27cm length, two layers per side. Up to 130m/s with full butterfly and a quick release.
For 9mm steel I use also blue TB, 22mm to 8mm, cut to 27cm length, three layers per side. Up to 125m/s, also full butterfly and a quick release.

And you need 20°C and more to get the max. speed. At the moment it is a bit cold here, around 10°c - and only max.115m/s are possible









It makes really a big difference if you shoot a band set on cold days or on warm, or better, hot days!

This is a really, really amazing speed area - a bit like an air rifle feeling! The sound of the projectile - very nice!! When I shoot target bands after a few hundred high speed shots I have just the feeling that my slingshot is out of order








But don`t ask for band life... I`m a guy who likes fast slingshot shots. And it is ok for me when I can have 80-100 shots with one of these speed band sets (with the first attachement!).
Mr. joel hits the nail on the head when he said (in another thread): "the speed is amazing, but you have to love making band sets!"









These bands are definitely not usefull for 10 or 20 m target shooting. I shoot better at this distance with slower bands! But if I go for longer distances - more than around 35-40m, I shoot much better with faster band sets. I just can`t handle the larger drop of the projectile









Regards
Torsten


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## mr.joel

What size lead ball would you recommend? I can't really get steel.


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## newconvert

pop shot said:


> i'd start light.


you are right! i started heavy and thought W T F? than i listend to your butterfly experiences, bought some black thera, and it turned fun in just 1 shot, makes a world of difference


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## akmslingshots

torsten said:


> you are right! i started heavy and thought W T F? than i listend to your butterfly experiences, bought some black thera, and it turned fun in just 1 shot, makes a world of difference


for sure, trying to find a compromise between super light and super heavy.. used the green as it was in my house but could definitely pull much heavier, there must be an optimum for gold bands


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## Northerner

mr.joel said:


> What size lead ball would you recommend? I can't really get steel.


All the velocity comes from the long draw length and the light ammo. Torsten shoots 8mm and 9mm steel.The 8mm weighs 32 grains. I don't have 9mm but my 9.5mm weighs 56 grains. A .32" or 5/16" lead ball should work fine. I think that's also #0 buckshot size.

9.5mm lead ball = 77 grains
9mm lead ball = 65 grains.
.32" lead ball = 49 grains
.25" lead ball = 24 grains

Cheers,
Northerner


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