# A Prototype Concept & Fork Design



## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Well, I don't have commercial endeavors. Not any at all... I'm much more an ideas kinda guy. Sharing my ideas is hard for me though... so please be gentle in criticism.

This idea came to me long ago and I have been working hard at designing it over several weeks now.

I have been trying to incorporate my knowledge in my current profession as well as well as my experience to create something different. Well, I don't know how different it is. Maybe it's not. I have never seen it before though.

I have decided I can't keep it a secret anymore, I want to share it with you guys, and I would like to do so "open source" in a sense. What I really care about is that no one would use any design I have made (past or present) to try and make a profit. That whatever information I share be *freely *given to everyone.

*Concept:*

Alter forks to accommodate the degree of cant.

I have called it *A*nti *C*ant *F*orks (AKF)

View attachment 53006


*Here is the early stages (Revision 3 at this point)*






*Here is the fork design (Revision 8 at this point)*






*Here is the attachment method (Revision 8)*





This was incredibly hard to draw, mainly due to compound angles. The throat must line up with the forks... that was fun to draw. 

*Credits:*

My wife for putting up with my drawing for hours on end. Thanks Amy (aka Mrs. Clever Moniker)

Can-opener for being my sounding board, and for playing a role in designing the base. You're awesome man.

Always give credit where it's due.

*Conclusion*

I am working on making several of these, and see what happens. Once complete, they will be used for trading, giveaways, and my friends on the forum.

So there you have it world, my idea, please be gentle guys.
Cheers,
Clever Moniker


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## Tom Kretschmer (Apr 4, 2013)

Nice idea, mate. I'm looking forward to see the result. Could be a milestone :thumbsup:


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## Mrs. Clever Moniker (Nov 3, 2013)

Man oh man. Pretty cool stuffs!


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

This is great I await the outcome with interest.


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## leon13 (Oct 4, 2012)

So nice ! Thanks 
Cheers


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## SmilingFury (Jul 2, 2013)

Nice, I like the prototype CO made. It is a cool looking shooter.


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## PorkChopSling (Jan 17, 2013)

Cool idea!! Very interesting


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Thanks for the nice comments guys. 

I forgot to mention, if I haven't taken into account something, please feel free to make suggestions...

I can also design different bases to accommodate Anti-Cant Forks.


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## TSM (Oct 8, 2013)

I like this idea a lot!


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## JohnKrakatoa (Nov 28, 2013)

Yeah very nice, I noticed this too, that when you hold a support style ss in the full pinch its canted.

Look at this natural birch fork that's awaiting processing


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

I will also try and post all my adventures as I go on with this crazy project...

How I make it, costs, with pics, videos, and the like...

Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

Looks like you have a great ldea going there..will be nice to see your finished product~AKAOldmiser


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

I got asked how the forks will attach to the core.

This was actually Mrs. Clever Monikers idea of attachment.

Here is the method I will be using.

*1)* Machine out .062 from core

View attachment 53044


*2)* Place fork in slot, this will leave .062 on top of the face of the core.

View attachment 53045


*3) *Vulcan Fiber of .062 black will then fit over the face, leaving it flat.

View attachment 53046


*4)* Wood will then go over the face.

View attachment 53047


Everything will be epoxy-ied and pinned using aluminium rod.

Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## JUSTJOB (Dec 26, 2013)

Really cool idea! Can't wait to see the end result!


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## Greavous (Sep 29, 2013)

So, are the pins going to be removable? I havent wrapped my brain all the way around this one yet but what about left and right handed shooters? Can these forks be swapped backwards for those of us in our right minds?


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Greavous said:


> So, are the pins going to be removable? I havent wrapped my brain all the way around this one yet but what about left and right handed shooters? Can these forks be swapped backwards for those of us in our right minds?


Pins are not removable, it's just how I have chosen to mount the forks to the base.

I would have to create a second set of forks designed for people who hold the slingshot in the right hand, good question. I would be willing to do that and provide the dimensions as well if you wanted.

In fact, I plan on giving all dimensions to this prototype.


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## Greavous (Sep 29, 2013)

let say the pin was some other sort of hardware securing the fork to the core. what happens if you just swapped the ends? would it become left handed without making parts backwards? can you mirror the part in your software while its a solid?


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Man, you know how I really like you and your family, so I kind of hate to do this.... but this isn't a new concept, although it is a sort of new way to go about achieving the cant....

I've done a bunch of prototypes and quit developing the concept once I realized a rotating fork on a customizable handle is the way to go... and since rotating forks were kind of Roger's thing first, I just didn't pursue to much further after that realization..

Videos of interest you might like to see... from about 6 or 7 months ago:











I know, I know... it's not on my gallery... but I don't put everything I make on my gallery nor do I post most of it on youtube... maybe 80% or so of the newer designs are in gallery and 50% or so on youtube... taking pictures and documenting takes away to much time from building and shooting!


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Bill Hays said:


> Man, you know how I really like you and your family, so I kind of hate to do this.... but this isn't a new concept, although it is a sort of new way to go about achieving the cant....
> 
> I've done a bunch of prototypes and quit developing the concept once I realized a rotating fork on a customizable handle is the way to go... and since rotating forks were kind of Roger's thing first, I just didn't pursue to much further after that realization..
> 
> ...


Great minds! Haha. Only wish I posted it prior to you.  It's also why I wrote "Well, I don't know how different it is. Maybe it's not. I have never seen it before though."... so nothing to "hate doing" so to speak.

I will still move ahead with the project giving all information as well as dimensions for my drawings. Even though it's been done before, maybe people could benefit from my take?

Do you have pics of your menace up close, I'd be curious how you went about your design?

I have found a way to put these forks on any "core" or "base" if you will, so as to customize the nature of the design.

Interesting vids for sure.

Nathan from Simple Shot also informed me that he too was working on (in the past) a design of similar nature... So I really can't win!

Cheers Bill,

Clever Moniker


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Greavous said:


> let say the pin was some other sort of hardware securing the fork to the core. what happens if you just swapped the ends? would it become left handed without making parts backwards? can you mirror the part in your software while its a solid?


I made this video for you:





Also, here are the dimensions for the fork holding the slingshot in the left hand:

View attachment 53059


Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## Greavous (Sep 29, 2013)

I see much better now, that vid helped. I think it would be wise to seek out someone with a 3D printer and see if you can do a little rapid prototyping on these parts. Fit a light set of bands and see how she shoots. Ive been making stuff a long time and that part isnt going to be easy to make.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Greavous said:


> I see much better now, that vid helped. I think it would be wise to seek out someone with a 3D printer and see if you can do a little rapid prototyping on these parts. Fit a light set of bands and see how she shoots. Ive been making stuff a long time and that part isnt going to be easy to make.


I have already got a quote for 3d printing, it came to $260 made as one whole unit.

I have a machining background, so for me, this isn't too much of an issue.

I plan on using emachineshop. Using their software and the 3d model... they quoted me at $17 per fork, x's 12 forks came to $204.00. This would allow me to make 6 Slingshots, not including the base.

The base I can machine out of 1/4in aluminium myself if needed. Either way, I don't expect costs to be too high. "High" being relative of course! Haha.


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## Mr.Teh (Feb 28, 2012)

Good thoughts on this design, a very professional prototype work, the drawing too,

it's a pity to hear that you are not the first one with this idea, a own design would be very cool, for me too


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Mr.Teh said:


> Good thoughts on this design, a very professional prototype work, the drawing too,
> 
> it's a pity to hear that you are not the first one with this idea, a own design would be very cool, for me too


Well, my concept is far from new... my design very much is... at least I don't think anyone has designed that design, but who knows really!? Haha.

Truth is, it's just a reality... there's only so much you can do with a "Y".


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## Greavous (Sep 29, 2013)

Yep, a "Y" can become difficult to make original. Especially with all the talent that lurks these forums.

That sounds like a real good deal on machining those on your end. One of these days 3D printing will become reasonable. But then again, look how much money the printer ink folks steal from the world every year. Im sure glad my vehicles dont run on printer ink.


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## WATERLOGIC (Feb 4, 2014)

I can imagine how much effort and work you have put into the design ...

I do not know if you have seen this video from Jorg Sprave - do not know either if this is his development - but sure looks tackles among other things (laser aiming for ex.) also your thinking . I especially like his relatively easy to produce design.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

WATERLOGIC said:


> I can imagine how much effort and work you have put into the design ...
> 
> I do not know if you have seen this video from Jorg Sprave - do not know either if this is his development - but sure looks tackles among other things (laser aiming for ex.) also your thinking . I especially like his relatively easy to produce design.


I have Waterlogic, this design took me a while to make. 

Never seen that video before, but I don't follow Jorg all that much to be honest. Nothing personal, just hate YouTube. Lol This is very similar to Rogers? Wingshooter? In speaking about design, not concept. I see he also does the rotating fork in hammer. Bill's was the closest to my design, yet is in hammer. I have never seen a dedicated side shooter with forks like mine, but they may exist somewhere I suppose.

I will say the Jorgs design is really good for how simple it is. I haven't really considered rotating forks to be honest. Nice find on the vid.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Clever Moniker said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> > Man, you know how I really like you and your family, so I kind of hate to do this.... but this isn't a new concept, although it is a sort of new way to go about achieving the cant....
> ...


No I don't have any pictures of the prototypes... Graywolf has one and there's a few around with some local kids... but I did keep a couple of the original drawings I used as working templates.

Feel free to what you wish with them, 'cause I've got other things I'm working on right now... BUT I might come back and visit this at some point... the reason for my interjection in the first place:


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Bill Hays said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> > Bill Hays said:
> ...


Thanks Bill, ohh shoot man, I wouldn't copy them. Although your HTS version interests me the most as this would be the first I have seen a dedicated side shooter like this. Most similar to mine less the forks obviously.

I do like how you did your forks though, If I was to take a guess, you milled out the groove on a particular angle, I calculated my cant at about 40 degrees.

I don't know if I'll pursue this now, as I think your design might be better then mine. Your forks would be one unit lending to more stability, as well as the ease in which you can produce it.

I suppose I'll leave this project.

Cheers,

Matthew (aka Clever)


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## S.S. sLinGeR (Oct 17, 2013)

Very nice work. I'm sure with you and Randy working on it something cool will come of it.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

S.S. sLinGeR said:


> Very nice work. I'm sure with you and Randy working on it something cool will come of it.


I should clarify, Randy's is different then mine. I have been asked this a lot in PM. Can-openers is awesome but his has different forks, similar base.

My forks are a design that is to compensate for cant but I wont keep going in the project, while I can of course lay claim to my design (not concept)... there would be no point other then curiosity.


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## S.S. sLinGeR (Oct 17, 2013)

Clever Moniker said:


> S.S. sLinGeR said:
> 
> 
> > Very nice work. I'm sure with you and Randy working on it something cool will come of it.
> ...


Ok sorry about that. I should look closer to the ipad when reading 

Either way ther both cool and great ideas.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

S.S. sLinGeR said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> > S.S. sLinGeR said:
> ...


Yeah a dam shame as I was excited about this concept,back to the drawing board to find a dedicated flat band shooter for me


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Now I am thinking about this more... lol

I wonder if I could make my fork design adaptable to any base? or pre-existing slingshots? I suppose it could even work on a natural... which would be fun. I'd just be concerned about a point of diminishing returns. lol


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## WATERLOGIC (Feb 4, 2014)

Clever Moniker said:


> Now I am thinking about this more... lol
> 
> I wonder if I could make my fork design adaptable to any base? or pre-existing slingshots? I suppose it could even work on a natural... which would be fun. I'd just be concerned about a point of diminishing returns. lol


If you can dream it &#8230; you can make it

LOL


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## reset (Apr 13, 2013)

With all the creative builders on here im thinking that it is almost impossible that any idea hasnt been tried already. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt try.

Your idea and drawings looked good too. Dont quit trying friend. Ive enjoyed watching your posts on this.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

reset said:


> With all the creative builders on here im thinking that it is almost impossible that any idea hasnt been tried already. But that doesnt mean we shouldnt try.
> 
> Your idea and drawings looked good too. Dont quit trying friend. Ive enjoyed watching your posts on this.


While the idea may have been done, the forks are my design. 

I shall pursue the use of my design in other ways, I dunno, I'm getting PM's to continue on... so I just may.

Thanks for your support reset.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Bill Hays said:


> ...BUT I might come back and visit this at some point... the reason for my interjection in the first place:


I did want to ask Bill, I don't understand this comment, if you could clarify?

Just for the record, I think my fork design is unlike other fork designs... that is... while you have shown the idea to not be new, I think my fork design is completely different and an attempt at solving the same problem from a different angle. 

Thanks Bill,

Matthew


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

So due to the response via PM, and Facebook... I will continue the development and design of my forks and see where it takes me.

Thanks for all the love guys. 

Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Virtual model with wood:

View attachment 53095


View attachment 53096


View attachment 53097


View attachment 53098


Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Clever Moniker said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> > ...BUT I might come back and visit this at some point... the reason for my interjection in the first place:
> ...


In the past I've made designs and worked on concepts, then, sometimes, later on others will come along after doing a little work on the same concept and then lay claim to the entire thing.... saying it's their original concept and so forth, then try to jealously defend against others working on the same thing...

An example is, when I made my first Scorpion slingshot and made videos lighting matches and so forth... it was brought to my attention via email by another well known maker that he too is working on a swept back and canted design... and that he wants me to desist from doing any more work in that direction.... he actually became pretty "snarky" in his emails to me.

So I made a point of explaining how recurved forks are not something he actually came up with and are not a recent innovation... they existed long before he or I were ever involved in slingshots, and as a matter of fact I had actually done some work in that direction over a year before, but didn't work on it much until inspired by seeing some of Roger Henrie's work, to do to much more in that vein.

I had actually made and posted pictures of recurved thermo-formed slingshots (Ranger and Seal designs) long before Roger had shown his first radical recurved slingshot that takes advantage of the "straight wrist" concept... but unfortunately I didn't do a "time stamped" video showing the concept before that though.

So to argue against the accusatory emails of me copying him, by the well known maker, I simply told him to get his facts right first and do a little more research before claiming an entire concept as the Chinese had been doing it for many years on many of their models and he simply didn't know what he's talking about.

It also seemed to irritate the maker that I credited Roger with inspiring me to revisit this concept in making the Scorpion design... which was in fact true, but he wanted all credits and so forth to be attributed himself.

Later on this same maker "borrowed" my fork tip designs and concepts changed the name and then began to mass produce and market calling it all his own idea... which then told me exactly what kind of guy he.

That's what I'm saying here... I am not laying claim to the concept, even though I do appear to of had the idea before you, as witnessed by the videos that do have definitive upload dates.... and because of the way my mind works, I'll come up with an idea/concept do a couple of prototype pieces and then let it all perculate in my mind for a while before doing more in that direction, I reserve the right to revisit this concept at a later date... and if I want to make a commercial model made for the purpose of making money on an idea I had... I also reserve that right as well.

That is all I'm saying, "I have the right to make a profit if I so desire"... because in your original post you said this "I have decided I can't keep it a secret anymore, I want to share it with you guys, and I would like to do so "open source" in a sense. What I really care about is that no one would use any design I have made (past or present) to try and make a profit. That whatever information I share be *freely *given to everyone".

Like I said, I truly hate to do this, but experience is a cruel mistress sometimes... and it's taught me that the sooner I can make my intentions known, the better.


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Excellent


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

That should have been a response to CM,s post BTW


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Come on now the recurred frame I saw years ago in China,this was never anyone's first design


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Bill Hays said:


> That is all I'm saying, "I have the right to make a profit if I so desire"... because in your original post you said this "I have decided I can't keep it a secret anymore, I want to share it with you guys, and I would like to do so "open source" in a sense. What I really care about is that no one would use any design I have made (past or present) to try and make a profit. That whatever information I share be *freely *given to everyone".
> 
> Like I said, I truly hate to do this, but experience is a cruel mistress sometimes... and it's taught me that the sooner I can make my intentions known, the better.


Ahhh, thank you for clarification! No issues there man...

Just to clarify, what I get concerned about would be if someone took my fork design here (or any of my designs specifically, not concept), recreated it, and sold it. Not that I'm saying it's great, or that anyone would even want to do that, and not that I could even stop them if they did, that was just my request and what I was referring to.

Obviously any fork design you make, you have the right to sell and make money on your design, and so you should if that's your desire, rock on.

Cheers,

Matthew


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Eagle of sniper used cant forks long before you Bill


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Tube_Shooter said:


> Eagle of sniper used cant forks long before you Bill


If you'll actually read what I wrote, you'll notice I credited the Chinese with that already.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Clever Moniker said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> > That is all I'm saying, "I have the right to make a profit if I so desire"... because in your original post you said this "I have decided I can't keep it a secret anymore, I want to share it with you guys, and I would like to do so "open source" in a sense. What I really care about is that no one would use any design I have made (past or present) to try and make a profit. That whatever information I share be *freely *given to everyone".
> ...


Good, we're on the same page then.

I just don't want any misunderstanding if I decide to mess around with this concept again later on.... that's all


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## Tube_Shooter (Dec 8, 2012)

Well I apologize then Bill 3" screen did not help,sorry dude.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Since I'm using this thread as a log for my ideas.

Here would be an example of a custom OTT model which is fairly small utilizing my fork design.

I currently have the wood and I am sourcing the core.

At least I sent off the file, lets see what the quote comes back! Haha.

I have picked up a router table which I plan on using for rounding the corners. 

View attachment 53119


View attachment 53120


View attachment 53121


View attachment 53122


Interesting, who would have thought I have 1/4 aluminium, padauk, yellowheart, & black g10 on hand? and that it matches my 3d model? 

Also, who would have thought I also have more then enough to work on a sling for a friend as well? 

View attachment 53132


Cheers,

Clever Moniker


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## WATERLOGIC (Feb 4, 2014)

Those who have been to China can not escape the fact that in spite of all new age high tech the vast majority of people use this design :

ergo or straight :










or some iteration thereof.

Some use braced slingshots.

So, canted forks issue :

Each and every human hand has its own features - small, big hands, short, long fingers hence each grips slightly differently ...

So this issue can be solved individually (custom solution for each ) or universally kind of .

Clever Moniker shows us the first, Jorg Sprave attempts the second .

Whatever. No solution will stick unless it fulfils other criteria as well.

Observing as above (China) it seems that this issue is not vital. Other things are much more important like say practice , training the hand or better training the body toward better shooting, then how practical a ss is etc.

So with all due respect it is of negligible importance who started working on an ss issue first.

Important is creativity and this is welcome for just think how many issues in the world around us had be started by some people and brought to perfection by other sometimes at much later times.

In my opinion fighting about an apple that is not ripe yet is superfluous.


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

Clever Moniker said:


> Virtual model with wood:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just had a thought, if you are planning on making the tips out of aluminum, why not go that extra step and make a compression/clip attachment system? It'll be eaiser than milling the slots in and the biggest thread you would need is a 1/4-24. It would clean things up a bit and take advantage of the properties of the tip material.


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

Metropolicity said:


> Virtual model with wood:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I was thinking of asking Can-opener if I may use his Channel Lock System with thumbscrews, so I'm totally following your thinking! Haha.

Do you have an alternate system you are thinking of Metro? I know you have been designing like crazy in the compression arena.


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

Clever Moniker said:


> Metropolicity said:
> 
> 
> > Virtual model with wood:
> ...


Yah, the flipclip/channel lock system will be your best bet. There isn't much room or depth for say my tube compression system but you can still attach tubes if you like. You can also look into the Monte-gear bar compression type fitting, it's the same but with two bolts instead of one.


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

Clever Moniker .... yeah ... would be cool at least make prototypes for yourself ... also some good field testing, accuracy, aiming method, comfort, etc. Your videos are informative. I see this as maybe more of a high concept ergo feature ... the hand gripping the slingshot handle, with the wrist positioned optimally for minimal or less stress. I would think, one could pull stronger bands, also less fatigue and one can do longer shooting sessions?


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## Clever Moniker (May 12, 2013)

ZorroSlinger said:


> Clever Moniker .... yeah ... would be cool at least make prototypes for yourself ... also some good field testing, accuracy, aiming method, comfort, etc. Your videos are informative. I see this as maybe more of a high concept ergo feature ... the hand gripping the slingshot handle, with the wrist positioned optimally for minimal or less stress. I would think, one could pull stronger bands, also less fatigue and one can do longer shooting sessions?


I'm on it friend, haha. Aluminum cores are being made as we speak, and just sent out a quote for the forks!

It's part of the reason I thought this was a good idea to make. I'm curious to see the outcome.


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