# Clean kill, is it that important to you ?



## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Just starting by saying that i am not trying to make anyone mad with this thread. I just want new members to get a prespective about clean kills from the eyes of diffrent hunters in the forum, and to get diffrent ideas of a clean kill.

Some people see a clean kill as a headshot,
some see a clean kill a anything that brings the animal down.
Some dont care if the kill was clean as long as the animal is down.

Lets hear your thoughts of what a clean kill is..

I believe that a clean kill is a kill that takes down the animal within the range that you can retreive it. i dont think that it has to be a shot that drops the animal in it tracks.


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## Blade (Jun 5, 2014)

I think a clean kill is one where the animal is taken as efficiently as possible. This usually means instant or near instant death.

This should be the main consideration of any hunter. For both ethical reasons and knowing you can actually take the game you are after.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Blade said:


> I think a clean kill is one where the animal is taken as efficiently as possible. This usually means instant or near instant death.
> 
> This should be the main consideration of any hunter. For both ethical reasons and knowing you can actually take the game you are after.


I agree 100%. even though I live in California and there are very few animals you can hunt, I always, even as a kid set my slings up for speed and power (momentum) (using heavy ammo). I figured that should I miss the head, the mass would cause much blunt force trauma and put the animal down humanly (and it did). I also used high quality ammo, 9/16 steel bearings and lead balls of ~40-50 caliber. I used 5/8 marbles for field shooting most of the time as they were cheap and flew well. I now use 3/4" Jawbreakers a lot, as they are a tad heavier than 5/8 marbles, are harder than Kelsy's nuts, and bio-degradable.

wll


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## JediMike (Jan 1, 2015)

I think a clean kill is hugely important. At the moment I won't even hunt becuase I can't guarantee a good headshot (moar practice!!!).

As far as "a clean kill is just the same as a quick breakdown" is concerned, it's kinda situational. If you have an animal somewhere where it can't escape , and you get a less than isntant kill... at most you're a second away from it (especially at slingshot ranges).

That said how often do you genuinely have an animal "cornered"? Practically never.

I'd argue though, if you can't guarantee that you;re a good enough shot to get a quick clean kill, then how can you guarantee you'll get "near enough"?

No one wants to leave an animal out there limping around on a broken foreleg the rest of it's life...


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## zap (Nov 26, 2014)

JediMike said:


> I think a clean kill is hugely important. At the moment I won't even hunt becuase I can't guarantee a good headshot (moar practice!!!).
> 
> As far as "a clean kill is just the same as a quick breakdown" is concerned, it's kinda situational. If you have an animal somewhere where it can't escape , and you get a less than isntant kill... at most you're a second away from it (especially at slingshot ranges).
> That said how often do you genuinely have an animal "cornered"? Practically never.
> ...


I meant that i believe that a clean kill is one where the shot is lethal enough to bring down the game in even 5 minutes after the shot is taken, like chest shots on rabbits, or on ducks. I said that the shot dosent have to be a headshot.

(I used woodpigeons account to start this topic  but its feralpigeo)


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

It would be nice to always have a clean kill but that's not always the case with any weapon be it slingshot gun bows Atlatl I think the Hunter should go out of his or her way to recover game that's not a clean kill.


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## Rick O'Shay (Dec 3, 2014)

A hunter should make every effort to put the animal down with one shot......That being said in the real world it doesn't happen as often as we would like. If YOU HUNT YOU WILL WOUND A ANIMAL AT SOME POINT. The difference is how much effort you put into retrieving that wounded animal be it a sparrow or a large buck....I need to qualify my stamens by saying I have yet to make a kill as a adult with my sling shot. I did have several bird kills as a young kid but they were not always clean.

Dan


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

I've hunted birds for years. There's a reason you use a scatter gun on birds - and even then, having to dispatch a wounded bird is common. However, if you are hunting a stationary target every effort should be made to be a good enough shot to quickly dispatch it with a clean kill. BTW if you ever have need to dispatch a bird simply wring it's neck. Just do it quickly and as humanely as possible.

winnie


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Winnie said:


> I've hunted birds for years. There's a reason you use a scatter gun on birds - and even then, having to dispatch a wounded bird is common. However, if you are hunting a stationary target every effort should be made to be a good enough shot to quickly dispatch it with a clean kill. BTW if you ever have need to dispatch a bird simply wring it's neck. Just do it quickly and as humanely as possible.
> winnie


Yeah i know that, i just pull their neck.. i what to see other hunters view on a clean kill.


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## Blade (Jun 5, 2014)

Winnie said:


> I've hunted birds for years. There's a reason you use a scatter gun on birds - and even then, having to dispatch a wounded bird is common. However, if you are hunting a stationary target every effort should be made to be a good enough shot to quickly dispatch it with a clean kill. BTW if you ever have need to dispatch a bird simply wring it's neck. Just do it quickly and as humanely as possible.
> winnie


I accidentally ripped the head off when trying to break a goose's neck last season. It still tried running off the boat though.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

WoodPigeon, I miss read your original post.

A clean kill is just that - an instant, painless kill for your quarry. Wounding an animal so that you can kill it more easily is not a clean kill. It is injuring the animal so that it cannot get away. The word "kill" is pretty descriptive. The term "clean kill" has everything to do with the animal dying instantly and nothing to do with the convenience of the hunter retrieving game.

If you are shooting a bird in the air there is a real chance you might only wound it in which case you are obliged as a sportsman to track it down and dispatch it as quickly as possible. If you are shooting a stationary animal then every attempt should be made for a clean kill on your initial shot.

winnie


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

I'm an Alaskan Native and hunting is a big part of our culture. Waste is looked down on and I've witnessed hunting partners go for a swim in order to retrieve game while hunting. I've shot a spruce grouse in the head leaving no brain left in the skull while the bird was still flapping around on the ground. I'm happy with the catch when I can get to the game quickly enough. I'm a fan of .45 lead and above and I'm confident of a humane kill at pretty good distance with heavy ammo


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Nicholson said:


> I'm an Alaskan Native and hunting is a big part of our culture. Waste is looked down on and I've witnessed hunting partners go for a swim in order to retrieve game while hunting. I've shot a spruce grouse in the head leaving no brain left in the skull while the bird was still flapping around on the ground. I'm happy with the catch when I can get to the game quickly enough. I'm a fan of .45 lead and above and I'm confident of a humane kill at pretty good distance with heavy ammo


Yes, thats what i said in my post  i see a clean kill as a kill where the animal is dead within retireving range.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

Woodpigeon,

Nicholson did not say that "I see a clean kill as a kill where the animal is dead within retrieving range". He said he was happy when he can get to the game quickly.

A clean kill is not a definition you get to change to fit your circumstances or your weapon or your skill. It is clearly and unwaveringly about a kill. An immediate and, hopefully painless kill that leaves no room for doubt. The animal drops dead on the spot. If it's a bird or another animal, it's dead when it hits the ground. It's possible to have a "quick kill" or a severe injury that keeps the animal from moving or moving far but it is not a clean kill.

This is a definition that is as old as hunting itself. You don't get to change.

winnie


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Winnie said:


> Woodpigeon,
> 
> Nicholson did not say that "I see a clean kill as a kill where the animal is dead within retrieving range". He said he was happy when he can get to the game quickly.
> 
> ...


I didnt mean to say that i wrote exacly what he wrote, i meant about not waisting and retriving the game.... and as for a clean kill, the definition can change from game to game and from a hunter to hunter, its not black and white as you describe it. Almost all hunters call a heart shot on a deer a clean shot, but that dosent go with your saying that a clean kill is one that the animal drops dead immediately...


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## Something0riginal (Dec 30, 2014)

i dont hunt much, when i do shotguns are a go to, as ill explain later. i would love to hunt more with my ss but im not that good, i can drill a can from 20 or 30 feet, but i cant light matches and shoot marbles. the best game here is deer and turkey, and i cant wait to take a turkey by shooter. BUT, death by bleeding is ineffective here as it would result in my wounded quarry being consumed by whatever ******** porch it wandered onto, and it is inhumane, as anyone whose ever bowhunted oughta know. Slingshots are actually more humane because like guns they kill with kinetic energy, what im saying is if youre accuracy is there, just knock it out, even if it aint dead it better than running 300 yards with a 1 inch hole through it. So given the right setup, and of course skill, i think shooters are a comparatively humane weapon vs a bow or air rifle, even an idiot with a 22 lr.


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

A heart shot is a clean kill. An animal might rarely continue to function for a very short period of time after a heart shot (anaerobic respiration does not require oxygen and lasts only as long as glycogen stores last) but it would be the real exception that an animal would continue to function without a heart.

If you have hunted a fair bit you know what a clean kill is. You walk over to where the animal is and pick it up because it is dead from one shot. It is not trying to get away or hide from you. It didn't have to bleed out. You don't have to wait for it to die. It doesn't continue to move away after you've shot it. There is no need to dispatch it. It's dead. If it remains alive long enough to try to get away or to cower as you approach, it may be a knock down shot or a kill but it isn't a clean kill.

Since you are defining a clean kill as "a kill that takes down the animal within the range that you can retrieve it" you introduce distance. What distance is okay? A clean kill is one where you can eventually find the animal? Or, does it mean you can retrieve an animal a couple of hundred yards from where you shot it - so, that becomes a clean kill? Do you mean 50 feet, half mile? What defines the "...range that you can retrieve it". Your definition is one that is defined by the ease with which you can retrieve it, not by the speed at which an animal dies.

winnie


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## youcanthide (Jun 16, 2013)

Like winnie I don't see how a clean kill is anything other than an instant death. Ending any animals suffering is the number one priority of any hunter but a clean kill is an instant death. If you wasnt there to retrieve it the likely hood is that an injured animal wouldn't die or die after an unnecessarily long period of time, hows that clean? Just because it retrieved and eventually killed doesn't say that its clean


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Winnie said:


> A heart shot is a clean kill. An animal might rarely continue to function for a very short period of time after a heart shot (anaerobic respiration does not require oxygen and lasts only as long as glycogen stores last) but it would be the real exception that an animal would continue to function without a heart.
> 
> If you have hunted a fair bit you know what a clean kill is. You walk over to where the animal is and pick it up because it is dead from one shot. It is not trying to get away or hide from you. It didn't have to bleed out. You don't have to wait for it to die. It doesn't continue to move away after you've shot it. There is no need to dispatch it. It's dead. If it remains alive long enough to try to get away or to cower as you approach, it may be a knock down shot or a kill but it isn't a clean kill.
> 
> ...


My definition of retreving range is about 70-100 feet. The animal has to die within that range, that is the definition of 'to take down the animal'... i got a chest shot on a feral rabbit and he ran for about 50 feet, flipped and died, that is the definition of a clean kill for me, each hunter got his own definition of a clean kill, obviously the goal is to get a headshot, but alot of the time you dont get the chance for that headshot on things that are bigger then pigeon...


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

youcanthide said:


> Like winnie I don't see how a clean kill is anything other than an instant death. Ending any animals suffering is the number one priority of any hunter but a clean kill is an instant death. If you wasnt there to retrieve it the likely hood is that an injured animal wouldn't die or die after an unnecessarily long period of time, hows that clean? Just because it retrieved and eventually killed doesn't say that its clean


As i said, im not talking about ending an animal's suffer, i see a clean kill as a kill where the animal is already dead when you approach it, if you have to put a second shot into it then i agree its not clean.... there is a diffrence between an instant kill which is pretty self-explanatory and clean kill which is a kill that each hunter defines for himself..


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## Rick O'Shay (Dec 3, 2014)

I can definitely tell the people that HUNT and the people that are internet Hunters......


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Dan Hoopes said:


> I can definitely tell the people that HUNT and the people that are internet Hunters......


Is that something that i said ?


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## youcanthide (Jun 16, 2013)

Dan Hoopes said:


> I can definitely tell the people that HUNT and the people that are internet Hunters......


Hope that's not referring to me, its what I live for aha


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

youcanthide said:


> Dan Hoopes said:
> 
> 
> > I can definitely tell the people that HUNT and the people that are internet Hunters......
> ...


Just thought of the same thing...


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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

A clean kill is exactly what it implies. A kill that is quick(clean). I don't see how the definition of a clean kill can be up for debate. As to how important it is, it is absolutely paramount in hunting. Put it this way, if you are being hunted as food would you rather be shot in the stomach or in the head?


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## Something0riginal (Dec 30, 2014)

Phoul Mouth said:


> A clean kill is exactly what it implies. A kill that is quick(clean). I don't see how the definition of a clean kill can be up for debate. As to how important it is, it is absolutely paramount in hunting. Put it this way, if you are being hunted as food would you rather be shot in the stomach or in the head?


well said man, if its running around bleeding and in pain before it dies, it aint a clean kill. If it keels right over, wether or not you have to finish it, it should be a clean kill, no guts or holes or shot in your meat. really any good blunt trauma to the head is clean, unless youre too squeemish for that awesome image of a birds brains exiting the other side of its dome.


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## Rick O'Shay (Dec 3, 2014)

Which hurts worse hitting your thumb with a hammer or cutting it with a sharp knife?

Bottom line is a bad shot is a bad shot. A good shot can turn into a bad shot in a instant. If a person has not made a bad shot then they have not hunted much..... There is way to many things that can happen in real hunting situations. If you cant handle ACIDENTLY wounding a animal stay with shooting targets. It is still a ton of fun and you wont have to worry about killing a animal.


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## Something0riginal (Dec 30, 2014)

Dan Hoopes said:


> Which hurts worse hitting your thumb with a hammer or cutting it with a sharp knife?
> 
> Bottom line is a bad shot is a bad shot. A good shot can turn into a bad shot in a instant. If a person has not made a bad shot then they have not hunted much..... There is way to many things that can happen in real hunting situations. If you cant handle ACIDENTLY wounding a animal stay with shooting targets. It is still a ton of fun and you wont have to worry about killing a animal.


so true though, thats why i like shotguns, but hey when i can strike matches and shoot marbles slingshotsll be a no brainer, for me and my target. right now i still hunt squirrels with them, but im not too good, and i shoot rocks so i mean to each his own


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

A few years and then some ago I was hog hunting with dogs the dogs had bayed a hog or I thought they did I ran into the cut down and was getting close found that the hog had been shot already with a arrow it looked like in the right front knuckle and was just walking in front of the dogs and would fight them in the thick brush I had no shot when he would hit open areas he would haul a s s I would run catch up he get away I called my hunting partners on the radio told them where he would be crossing the road they set up now this has went on for about 3 miles and then I hear 3 shots and hear the dogs coming back my way my buddy's call me saying he was knocked down twice he came out right on top of me I shot him 5 times 12game's # 4 buck all neck and shoulder shots he went to my right I dropped my shot gun pulled my 1911 45 shot 7 time missed one 6 hits to the shoulder and high back he went down and I still had to put my blade in his neck my buddy's shooting # 1 buck the buck shot never made it past his shield and 3 of my 45 rounds did not either all shots should have been kill shots but the one I missed some times it takes more to put them down this mean I am a bad Hunter I don't think so did I pick the wrong weapon of don't think so just so tough animals out there don't your best learn from your mistakes don't repeat this hunt I would have done ever thing the same if I had to do it over again.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

ghost0311/8541 said:


> A few years and then some ago I was hog hunting with dogs the dogs had bayed a hog or I thought they did I ran into the cut down and was getting close found that the hog had been shot already with a arrow it looked like in the right front knuckle and was just walking in front of the dogs and would fight them in the thick brush I had no shot when he would hit open areas he would haul a s s I would run catch up he get away I called my hunting partners on the radio told them where he would be crossing the road they set up now this has went on for about 3 miles and then I hear 3 shots and hear the dogs coming back my way my buddy's call me saying he was knocked down twice he came out right on top of me I shot him 5 times 12game's # 4 buck all neck and shoulder shots he went to my right I dropped my shot gun pulled my 1911 45 shot 7 time missed one 6 hits to the shoulder and high back he went down and I still had to put my blade in his neck my buddy's shooting # 1 buck the buck shot never made it past his shield and 3 of my 45 rounds did not either all shots should have been kill shots but the one I missed some times it takes more to put them down this mean I am a bad Hunter I don't think so did I pick the wrong weapon of don't think so just so tough animals out there don't your best learn from your mistakes don't repeat this hunt I would have done ever thing the same if I had to do it over again.


dang, thats almost like useing a water gun on him.

its true what you say, make sure you have the right weapon. . . but sometimes sh!t happens.


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## Something0riginal (Dec 30, 2014)

Imperial said:


> ghost0311/8541 said:
> 
> 
> > A few years and then some ago I was hog hunting with dogs the dogs had bayed a hog or I thought they did I ran into the cut down and was getting close found that the hog had been shot already with a arrow it looked like in the right front knuckle and was just walking in front of the dogs and would fight them in the thick brush I had no shot when he would hit open areas he would haul a s s I would run catch up he get away I called my hunting partners on the radio told them where he would be crossing the road they set up now this has went on for about 3 miles and then I hear 3 shots and hear the dogs coming back my way my buddy's call me saying he was knocked down twice he came out right on top of me I shot him 5 times 12game's # 4 buck all neck and shoulder shots he went to my right I dropped my shot gun pulled my 1911 45 shot 7 time missed one 6 hits to the shoulder and high back he went down and I still had to put my blade in his neck my buddy's shooting # 1 buck the buck shot never made it past his shield and 3 of my 45 rounds did not either all shots should have been kill shots but the one I missed some times it takes more to put them down this mean I am a bad Hunter I don't think so did I pick the wrong weapon of don't think so just so tough animals out there don't your best learn from your mistakes don't repeat this hunt I would have done ever thing the same if I had to do it over again.
> ...


hey man, you can cut steel with the right water gun


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## Rick O'Shay (Dec 3, 2014)

It is truly fascinating how some fur and feathered animals have a will to live where others just keel over buy the sound of a shot. I see it with jack rabbits often one will take a load of #6 shot at 20 foot and keep running for 100 yds and the next will fall over with 1 pellet in it. I have seen the same weird stuff happen with deer and elk as well. Just to many variables.

But I gotta say there is nothing more satisfying while hunting then watching your game fold and fall, OR while bowfishing when you stone one and it floats.


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## Kerry Cornelius (Nov 11, 2014)

When I hunt no matter what weapon I use whether it is a gun, bow or slingshot, I try to kill the animal as quickly as possible. sometimes I have chased a deer for a mile or two because sometimes they will run even after you blow the lungs out. The main thing for me is to ensure that whatever i shoot I get and use as much of the animal as possible. It makes no sense to just kill an animal and leave it lay. I guess that is another question all together.


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Dan Hoopes said:


> Which hurts worse hitting your thumb with a hammer or cutting it with a sharp knife?
> 
> Bottom line is a bad shot is a bad shot. A good shot can turn into a bad shot in a instant. If a person has not made a bad shot then they have not hunted much..... There is way to many things that can happen in real hunting situations. If you cant handle ACIDENTLY wounding a animal stay with shooting targets. It is still a ton of fun and you wont have to worry about killing a animal.


You can look at my previous hunting posts and you can see that i deliver very good shots, i can finish a wounded animal, just a couple days ago i ran about 600 meters just to finish one dove. But that is not what this is about, instant kill is what us all hunters desire, but a clean kill is what we hunters set for ourselves...


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Dan Hoopes said:


> It is truly fascinating how some fur and feathered animals have a will to live where others just keel over buy the sound of a shot. I see it with jack rabbits often one will take a load of #6 shot at 20 foot and keep running for 100 yds and the next will fall over with 1 pellet in it. I have seen the same weird stuff happen with deer and elk as well. Just to many variables.
> 
> But I gotta say there is nothing more satisfying while hunting then watching your game fold and fall, OR while bowfishing when you stone one and it floats.


Ever hunted hare with a bow ? Or a porcupine ? I got two arrows with my 50 pound recurve in a porcupine from 40 meters.. he started running (that bow took some hogs.. and but the porcupine..) we tracked it by the broken quills and found him alive an hour later, it seems that in that hour he was also able to injure a jackel... sure is odd what some animals can do..


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## D.Nelson (Feb 20, 2014)

I want it incapacitated or a complete miss. I have no issues with swiftly thumping anything that goes down.


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## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

You know, I don't hunt, but I practice in case I need to do so. I would prefer to give as I would care to get. Lights On/Lights Off. I realize that does not happen a lot in Nature: But as a "Superior Species" we have a moral obligation to make it as clean as we can. Failing that? A coup de grace as soon as possible.


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## Rick O'Shay (Dec 3, 2014)

Porcupines are the perfect example of a animal that can be tough as nails or easy to kill. I have had both......In my early blood thirsty youth when if it moved it died was my way of thinking I killed several pine pigs. I remember shooting one 3 times with my 30/06 before it finally died. Then shortly after that one we were out stump shooting with our bows and my buddy hit one with a blunt and it just died.

Now dies I spend more time hunting then killing, I have 4 sons that I am trying to lead by example verses killing every thing that breathes. We have tried several different not so common dinners. I try to only kill what we are willing to eat with the exception of predator/varmint type hunting. For the stuff that get left, it is a easy meal for the crows and coyotes, because they need a easy meal as well.

I also do a lot of bowfishing for carp. We have tried eating that and now my boys want it all the time( tastes like Skippers FISH) , but when you have several hundred pounds of fish it can be a challenge to find a use for it all. I buried a lot in my garden last spring and should have a real good squash patch this year. I also feed it to my chickens.


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

Dan Hoopes said:


> Porcupines are the perfect example of a animal that can be tough as nails or easy to kill. I have had both......In my early blood thirsty youth when if it moved it died was my way of thinking I killed several pine pigs. I remember shooting one 3 times with my 30/06 before it finally died. Then shortly after that one we were out stump shooting with our bows and my buddy hit one with a blunt and it just died.
> 
> Now dies I spend more time hunting then killing, I have 4 sons that I am trying to lead by example verses killing every thing that breathes. We have tried several different not so common dinners. I try to only kill what we are willing to eat with the exception of predator/varmint type hunting. For the stuff that get left, it is a easy meal for the crows and coyotes, because they need a easy meal as well.
> 
> I also do a lot of bowfishing for carp. We have tried eating that and now my boys want it all the time( tastes like Skippers FISH) , but when you have several hundred pounds of fish it can be a challenge to find a use for it all. I buried a lot in my garden last spring and should have a real good squash patch this year. I also feed it to my chickens.


Carp are not great to eat, but we have them here as the most common fish. They only taste good fried with a bunch (a ton) of seasoning..


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## Hoss (Jun 3, 2014)

Blade said:


> I think a clean kill is one where the animal is taken as efficiently as possible. This usually means instant or near instant death.
> 
> This should be the main consideration of any hunter. For both ethical reasons and knowing you can actually take the game you are after.


I agree with you 100%. I don't think anyone should ever consider hunting until they are confident that they have the ability to make a good clean kill.


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## zippo (Jul 9, 2014)

'Jumping' this topic to the top, i think this is an important matter that begginers and expirienced hunters should share theyre view on it.


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