# HDPE sheet



## lexlow

Hello again, a simple project here this time, compared to the micarter (well sorta).

ok, so for those who have found this tutorial and not the micarta one, i'll repeat a few steps from that one.

HDPE is easy to find,









as long as its got the number 2 in the triangle and or it has HDPE (sometimes PEHD) then its good for what we need.

hdpe melts (not burns or release fumes) at about 180 c.

this stuff can be easily singed at about 220 c i think from experience, although the inside would still be fine.

step one:









take your bottle and cut it into pieces roughly 1-2 cm2 and collect. now i'm sure its wrong (knowing me prob by alot) but i think its weighing in at about 1.5grams per cm3 so you can roughly work out how much plastic you will need to collect by working out how big your mould is.

step two:









putt all your HDPE into a metal bowl and place into an oven. switch oven to 190c and as with the micarta heat for about an hour checking twice and turning the bowl. this stuff is the consistency of toffee peeps, so dont think your going to be poring it anywhere! using a metal rod or butter knife etc pry the HDPE from the bowl and place into your mould.

step three:

HDPE when cooling wants to twist badly as different parts cool quicker, so i made a block moulder that i could dump the melted HDPE in and form it to a rough block and hold it there.









here is the area for the plastic, it is contained by 2x2 cm wooden slats into a piece of ply with a side left open for a sliding push bar.

step four:









once the plastic is sitting roughly inside the three sides of the rig, you can push the lid (peice of ply)

down and squash it then screw in place.

step five:









use the push side to further squash the HDPE into the mould, and screw that in place.

and then leave to cool for around two hours before taking it out.

coloured pieces can be added into the mix before heating, or even layers of whole coloured plastic, or...... anything heat proof . anyway, hope that gave someone something to do


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## lexlow

i might add also that if you use a dremel type mini sanding drum to shape it, it will perform excelent, i did the whole small cattie with one drum :-D cheap ;-)


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## orcrender

Nice information.


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## treefork

Well done! Never would have thought scrap could be used.


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## Rayshot

That is informative. Thanks.

You mention it melts at 180c but say 190 c for the oven. The 190c is what we should use for the oven? Just checking.


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## lexlow

Rayshot said:


> That is informative. Thanks.
> 
> You mention it melts at 180c but say 190 c for the oven. The 190c is what we should use for the oven? Just checking.


yes, i meant 190 in the oven, i think it is all variable from 180 - 200 and as well as the length of time depending on amount of HDPE


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## maxpowers

That's awsome! I was searching for a source of plastic material for ss's last night. Get up this morning and find this thread. Thanks Lexlow! (Starts rummaging through recycle bin...........)


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## bullseyeben!

Was just making the morning coffee when reading this, looked under the milk bottle and there it was....hdpe.. thats really cool to see how well it works...good job...


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## Knotty

Great info. Didn't know we could melt and mold a block from milk containers.


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## lightgeoduck

Man, this is cool.. my milk jugs can turn into slingshots!

I love this, and cant wait for my wife and kids to go on vacation again, I am so doing this 

Thanks for the info

LGD


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## Imperial

all plastic milk containers are HDPE. i once had an idea of cutting out the large flat sections and glueing them with epoxy to make a slab of material to cut into.

lexlow- ever consider trying the 5 gallon water bottles ? (unless im mistaken bout them being HDPE also)


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## maxpowers

So far I have acquired about 350g of HDPE, and that's just out of one bin. We drink a lot of milk and juice. Is this stuff infinitely re-meltable? Can I just keep re-using the off cuts when making a slingshot?

Also, according to wiki HDPE is 0.93-0.97 g/cm3


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## lexlow

Imperial said:


> all plastic milk containers are HDPE. i once had an idea of cutting out the large flat sections and glueing them with epoxy to make a slab of material to cut into.
> 
> lexlow- ever consider trying the 5 gallon water bottles ? (unless im mistaken bout them being HDPE also)


i used a plant food container for part of a mix, it was HDPE but about 2mm thick, melted fine with the rest ;-) and no need to glue


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## lexlow

maxpowers said:


> So far I have acquired about 350g of HDPE, and that's just out of one bin. We drink a lot of milk and juice. Is this stuff infinitely re-meltable? Can I just keep re-using the off cuts when making a slingshot?
> 
> Also, according to wiki HDPE is 0.93-0.97 g/cm3


thanks for looking that on wiki, i didnt even think to bother as i knew someone would 

and so far a few parts have been melted three times, also it did say somewhere that the property of this HDPE is that it can be used again and again.


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## Charles

This is a great idea ... I really love it. I know I have a reputation of being a scrounger, but this beats me combing second hand stores for old cutting boards!!!

Cheers .... Charles


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## Dayhiker

Once again, thank you, lexlow. This is great stuff!


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## Beanflip

This just gave me a light bulb moment. I can save all my KingStarboard scraps and shavings and make more slingshots! Thanks


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## Beanflip

Colors!

I wonder if it could be chopped up in a food processor. It might fill the space of the mold efficiently. ?


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## lexlow

Charles said:


> This is a great idea ... I really love it. I know I have a reputation of being a scrounger, but this beats me combing second hand stores for old cutting boards!!!
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


i still do that lol. another source of good wood can come from pound stores, some of those wooden toys have a good amount of area, also they do epoxy


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## lexlow

Beanflip said:


> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365971857.135505.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1365971932.006385.jpg Colors! I wonder if it could be chopped up in a food processor. It might fill the space of the mold efficiently. ?


yup i collect (and reserve cleaning bottles.) also, the lids to most of these fruit juice or milk bottles are hdpe , they have the same symbol.


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## lexlow

oh pants, forgot to say cutting is best, it dont blend to well, (it dont ruin it, but it just bounces around, try it but it wont work lol) a meat grinder works well.


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## lightgeoduck

Do you think something like this would work?










of course they have smooth surface plates as well.

It gets to the right temp, and I would imagine you could put pressure and form it as it melts. of course the possible issue is with ambient air isn't the same as in an oven. However they make cast iron griddles that I am sure you could put in the oven as well.

LGD


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## lexlow

there are flat surface sandwich toasters that size on amazon for about 22 pounds , and there top temp is 180 which is perfect, there is a guy on youtube using the exactsame one available.


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## BrokenPins

This is - f*ckingawesome. Thank you very much I never would've thought to do this. Without question the most satisfaction filled recycling experience one could perform at home. Great idea!


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## lexlow

ok, i wanna see some peoples results / blobs


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## maxpowers

Here is my first attempt. It's a Bill Hays Patriot, still need to drill some holes etc. I was going to sand it back to get rid of all the lumps but thought it might be interesting like that so I stuck it on the router and am pretty happy with it. I might make a thicker one next time and sand out the rough surface. I cut it out on a scroll saw.

Loving this lexlow! This type of free reclamation/recycling and ending up with an awsome product is so satisfying!

The actual mass of HDPE in the slingshot itself is only about 100g-ish, the rest will just go back into the pot for re-melting so it doesn't really take too much to make these once you get started.





































I have to say, this stuff is bloody strong!


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## Tex-Shooter

I read this post with much interest and will have to say very ingenious. I wonder however if wanting to make several slingshots that the time and energy involved would not be more than the mony to buy a quantity of HDPE from a outlet like this if you live in the USA. Minimum Order is just $20. -- Cheers, Tex

http://hightechplastics.com/index.php?act=viewCat&catId=3


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## lexlow

awsome maxpower! made me smile, thats exactle the result i have it that jigg thing we both used. how did the sanding and finishing go? and i know this sounds funny, but get some of the offcuts and try strength testing lol i have hit mine as hard as i can and it could not care less 

and tex shooter, i have seen thay do it in sheets, and at ok ish prices, but i kinda like the makin it, next project is to construct layers of a few colours. the vanish stain remover pots are super bright pink and i think it will make for some cool layer stripes with some black and white conyainers i have now


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## maxpowers

I sanded it down on one side, it's not perfectly smooth yet but good enough for now, then I drilled some holes and band grooves cos I wanted to give it a shoot! So I haven't finished it fully yet. What have you found is the best way to get it nice and smooth?

Another pic..



I will be making another one shortly starting with a thicker mold so I can sand all the lumpy surface back, although hopefully the next one one be a little less lumpy as I know what to expect now.

I have found some gold HDPE in the form of engine oil bottles, I might try mixing this with some bright pink HDPE that came from some clothes wash powder bottles. Must be something about pink and washing products lol. Although this stuff is a bit rare to find so I will make another plane white one to try and get better at it first. Having said that it is not hard to do really for anyone wanting to try it. I will crank up the oven in the morning and experiment with my larger mold!

Cheers max


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## lexlow

nice one glad to see its going well. i had the same problem, i could not wait to use it, and the ones i made so far i cant get enough of shooting the lol, so i will do some more soon as i said. thanks for the tip about the engine oil containers for the gold ;-)


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## Imperial

@ maxpowers- id be very paranoid and cautious about sticking engine oil containers in my oven.

even after i have cleaned them out. that smell will attach itself to your oven and revisit you every time that oven gets turned on.


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## flipgun

I really like this idea! About smoothing the finish, I'm certain that I saw a thread about this material and the poster used a light touch with a torch to heat the surfaces and they smoothed on their own


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## lexlow

had a go with some rough bits using a micro torch soldering thing, but although my results were cack, i can see that if you smooth it as best you can say using 240 or finer, i recon the same heating would just about finish it to a shine. i on hold with the hdpe for a few days as i making seven of my oak pfs s for ebay today and tomorrow.


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## maxpowers

Imperial said:


> @ maxpowers- id be very paranoid and cautious about sticking engine oil containers in my oven.
> even after i have cleaned them out. that smell will attach itself to your oven and revisit you every time that oven gets turned on.


I washed the engine oil containers out with degreaser then copius amounts of water, they're perfectly clean now, can't smell any oil. However I am using an old oven in the garage to heat it so I'm not that worried. It was Nulon brand oil if anyone's interested.

Will give the heat torch method a go at getting a gloss finish.


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## Charles

These are great results, assuming the strength is there. I am quite encouraged to give it a try.

Cheers .... Charles


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## maxpowers

Charles said:


> These are great results, assuming the strength is there. I am quite encouraged to give it a try.
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


This stuff is VERY strong Charles. The only thing that could weaken it is if the raw material wasn't melted down enough, ie into one solid mass. If you tried to mold it at this stage you might get some parts that still aren't melted and may not "fuse" to the rest effectively leaving fractures in the end product. So as long as its all melted down thoroughly It will be fine. My first one is really strong and it was all touch and go for that one seeing as I had no idea really. Give it a shot I reckon, the best part is it's free!


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## bullseyeben!

Looks good MP, I have now collected plenty of hdpe, one problem...the missus won't let me use the oven inside the house.. 
Did you notice any fumes or smell anything a bit sus whilst melting it? I know lexlow mentioned at 190c it shouldn't... so I did a Google search, in hope to find other methods, and one I saw was done in a saucepan with cooking oil!? Because the oil doesent smoke till around 230c, but would this infuse oil into the hdpe... ? So than I thought I could just do the same in an old square pan on low heat minus any cooking oil, using the side burner of my bbq outside? Is there any reason this may not work? Cheers..


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## maxpowers

I smelt some slight odours the first time but that may have been from residual milk or orange juice that I hadn't washed out enough. the second time I cranked up the temp a bit more just to see if I could get things happening faster and there was a bit of smell, also there were some old pieces stuck on the sides from the first batch that burnt a bit so it could have been them. Even still, both times the smell cleared very quickly once I was done. When taking the hdpe out of the mold it smells like the wood lol not the plastic. Maybe suggest she visit her friends or something lol


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## lexlow

hi bullseye, as long as you dont put your oven over 200, the only smell you should get is the same as if you leave your oven on for an hour without anything in, try it. i used to work in a factory that used this stuff for making seaside buckets and spades, and the factory had the smell of plastic, but only slight, and considering the size of the factory it goes to show its ok. as maxpower said, its only gonna smell if you get small bits burning, well, more browning.

cant wait to get back on it tomorrow, how's the oil container one going maxpower? what are you making today


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## lexlow

and charles, this stuff is mega resistant against whacks, and hits from anything like a hammer or ball bearing, hit it man lol it is quite funny how string it is :-D


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## maxpowers

lexlow said:


> hi bullseye, as long as you dont put your oven over 200, the only smell you should get is the same as if you leave your oven on for an hour without anything in, try it. i used to work in a factory that used this stuff for making seaside buckets and spades, and the factory had the smell of plastic, but only slight, and considering the size of the factory it goes to show its ok. as maxpower said, its only gonna smell if you get small bits burning, well, more browning.
> 
> cant wait to get back on it tomorrow, how's the oil container one going maxpower? what are you making today


I molder another blank today, this time a bit thicker and worled it quicker out of the oven so the surface is much better. Just another plain white one for the moment (still need to cut up the other oil bottles). I have a few ideas in mind to achieve more consistent outcomes so I shall experiment further soon.

I tried to smooth out my current one with some heat. It made it shiny-er but also left slight smokey stains on it. Probably my technique that was average (hold over open flame, smooth out with thumb....with gardening gloves on.....)

Need to try something with some colour next!


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## BuBsMuBollock

Can't wait to try this thanks for sharing


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## maxpowers

Made another one today, this time a Bill Hays Tube Master Sniper, I love his designs. I will have to make one of my own designs next time though haha.



Getting better at it, I find however that because it is so thick by the time I get it out of the bowl once melted down that parts of it have cooled a little and so prevents the surface from being as smooth as I'd like.

I think next time I will melt it down in my steel bowl, scrape it out, shape it into a ball then sit it in the mold and put it back in the over for a short time to re-melt the outer parts that cooled. Then I can take it out and close up the mold straight away thus hopefully creating a better overall finish with less or no small surface cracks. I hope that makes sense, listening to trance music atm haha.

Cheers Max.


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## Beanflip

Wow. That's pretty cool.


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## FWV2

Hey guys! I have been following this thread with interest! I don't do the melting of the hdpe, I have a supply of sheets of it in deferent colors that were bath room partitions, Its called Santana! its 1" thick! never thought of making slings with it until this thread! But I work with it at work! just thought I would pass on some tricks that I have been using to smooth the surface!

From time to time I have to remove graffiti from the stalls and I have found that after sanding the graffiti out leaves the same surface that your getting on your slings!

So I tried the torch like your doing and it works but leaves black smoke marks! then I tried a Iron for ironing clothes! that works very well on flat surfaces but not on rounded areas! for that I use a commercial heat gun! I heat it up and use a piece of something that is hard and smooth to go over the surface that I heated up! leaves smooth as glass!!

If the surface has a texture to it I have corse sand paper that I lay over and apply heat to it then use a roller over top of sand paper! this leaves a texture with out losing the gloss!

Just a few tricks that work for me.

Thanks!

Fwv2


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## lexlow

cheers fwv2,

hey that gives me an idea maxpower! shape some rods or shapes sections of wood, wrap a tin/coke can round it an then use it to rub and move ove the cattie after heating , so sorta make a few file shaped tools but really smooth. ok, i'm on it tomorrow, i am making a cattie for my wife, she wants one slightly smaller than i normally make em .... dam, now if i remember wright, the only time she tried to use one of mine, in the begining, she was dam good  i should make it a bit wonky so i dont have to compete lol


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## lexlow

oh and another nice cattie maxpower  i gonna have to up my game tomorrow ! and i prefer a bit of dub atm although i did find myself listening to dnb the other day ! oh the good ole days lol


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## lexlow

family day stopped building lol but i also offer a word of warning maxpower, be careful how many people you ask to save milk bottles lol think i have enough to start a recycling plant 

oh and the idea about a shiny smooth implement for getting the shine on the curvy surface........ my mum said

how about a spoon, genius!


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## BCLuxor

So my question gang ... how many bottles melted down was the tube master ? how many bottles to make a nice thick square blank?


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## maxpowers

I will have to give the spoon ago soon lex! 
To luxor, I used about 400-450g of cut up hdpe to make a 120x140x20mm block. This was a bit big for the tube sniper as I had somthing else in mind initially(nice thickness, just too long and wide). If you calculate how many CC your mold is that will be how many grams of hdpe you need. Allow a bit more for bits left stuck in the heating bowl. Hdpe density is just under 1gram per cm^3. I'm not sure how much just one bottle weighs I should weigh one haha.


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## lexlow

about 37grams i think.


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## maxpowers

Has anyone else given this a try yet? I've been a bit busy to give another one a go as of late. Be interesting to see other HDPE noobs give this a try!


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## BCLuxor

I am currently hoarding all plastic with the "2" in Triangle ... So far 2 milk bottles 10 ish more to go ...


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## lexlow

luxor5 said:


> I am currently hoarding all plastic with the "2" in Triangle ... So far 2 milk bottles 10 ish more to go ...


wow, i got way to many, like maxpower, i had things to do grrrrr, life lol. how about friends families or a recycling place?


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## BCLuxor

Yes I am in no great rush to Collect all I need in time ill be ready to melt down


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## lexlow

hey max, have you had time to try the smoothing thing? i'm just about to chuck that project in the oven that i was gonna do last week lol.

the wooden pfs i made went well on ebay, sold five in just over a day  happy days, time to get some theraband ;-) oh and shopping lol.

anyway, the stuff i'm putting in now is about 250g of plain milk hdpe, and one small vanish removal tub cut into tiny pieces which will hopefully add little flecks? or blurs? or burnt bits? we will see..........


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## maxpowers

Not yet sorry lex. Been making a few ply catties for friends and the mrs haha. I keep forgetting to give it a shot every time I'm in the shed.

Your next creation sounds interesting, Hopefully more of the flecks get to the surface, I've yet to experiment with different colours yet so looking forward to your results! I will have to try the gold and pink next, hopefully have enough to make a whole mold as I don't want to use any milk white HDPE in it.

One question. Have you had any trouble with the bands slipping out on you HDPE catties? My double theraband gold setup seems to want to slip out after about 10 shots, I have to keep pulling it back through which I probably shouldn't be able to do haha. Maybe I need to wrap it tighter.

Good work on the PFS's, I have a design I enjoy atm, I might try sell a few on the old ebays.

Cheers Max


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## Rayshot

Working on collecting #2. Not poo... #2 HDPE. I only deposit Poo.

Lexlow, you mentioned the colored caps were often #2 but I have yet to see any of them with any number. Any insight?


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## maxpowers

A lot of caps I see are #4 LDPE. The only caps I've found that are marked 2 if marked at all have been on milk bottles/jugs. That's here in Aus anyways.


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## lexlow

sorry for any confusing rayshot, the only hdpe caps i ahve found are milk ones to.

here is todays result maxpower.





  








hdpe wifes




__
lexlow


__
Apr 27, 2013


__
2










  








hdpe done




__
lexlow


__
Apr 27, 2013


__
2


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## Rayshot

lexlow said:


> sorry for any confusing rayshot, the only hdpe caps i ahve found are milk ones to.
> 
> here is todays result maxpower.


Thanks for the reply. Nice new HDPE mix for the shooter. I am looking forward to creating my own batch.


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## Beanflip

lexlow said:


> sorry for any confusing rayshot, the only hdpe caps i ahve found are milk ones to.
> here is todays result maxpower.


Look cool! Can you post larger photos?


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## lexlow

not sure why they are not bigger? any ideas?


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## Rayshot

Found a bonanza of colored HDPE containers. The Dollar Store.


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## primitive power slingshot

I'M ALL OVER THIS ONE. THIS IS THE BEST POST IVE COME ACROSS TO DATE. THANKS FOR SHARING.


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## e~shot

That is a cool slingshot!


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## ash

That looks great!

I'm going to have to start collecting bottles


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## lexlow

nice comments peeps  i was gonna start a new thread for the work people are making here, but as we are all learning as we go, i think its still in the right place as all our progressions are part of the tutorial. more pfs to make today, but i got a wicked idea for the next hdpe shooter ;-)


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## Northerner

I just finished melting down a #2 HDPE shampoo bottle to check the consistency. I let it go for around 30 minutes at 370F. The bottle turned into a thick, sticky blob that reminded me of chewing gum. It seems that we should be removing any printing on the bottles. The print shrivels up on the plastic doesn't look so good.

I have a few 5 gallon (20L) buckets that are #2 HDPE. Unfortunately they are covered in print and labels. I'll have to figure out an easy way to remove the ink. Cutting the thick buckets into small pieces might be a challenge too. Any advice?


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## Charles

For cutting those buckets, I would try one of those hand held power jig saws. If you do not have one of those, then just and old fashioned carpenters wood saw should do the job.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## leon13

watch ure fingers !!! just an actual advice from a very bad experiance with my roller cutter


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## Imperial

lexlow said:


> sorry for any confusing rayshot, the only hdpe caps i ahve found are milk ones to.


the caps from water bottles and sports drink bottles are hdpe. such as the blue ones from dasani water bottles and orange from gatorade. the different colored ones from coca cola plastic bottles, red, copper.


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## maxpowers

Ahh yes, I forgot about coke bottle caps. I see others that look like hdpe but don't say it. Don't want to accidentally mix in some wrong plastic. Is there a way of telling if it is hdpe or not?


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## Imperial

maxpowers said:


> Ahh yes, I forgot about coke bottle caps. I see others that look like hdpe but don't say it. Don't want to accidentally mix in some wrong plastic. Is there a way of telling if it is hdpe or not?


just mix all the same color . most plastics your using is going to either be 1 or 2 . one is the common recycled plastic. 2 is not as recycled, but gaining popularity to be so. pvc is commonly a 3. well you know what here- http://www.qualitylogoproducts.com/lib/different-types-of-plastic.htm


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## ash

7-up caps here are HDPE, so presumably are Pepsi and Mountain Dew.


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## stej

Northerner said:


> I just finished melting down a #2 HDPE shampoo bottle to check the consistency. I let it go for around 30 minutes at 370F. The bottle turned into a thick, sticky blob that reminded me of chewing gum. It seems that we should be removing any printing on the bottles. The print shrivels up on the plastic doesn't look so good.
> 
> I have a few 5 gallon (20L) buckets that are #2 HDPE. Unfortunately they are covered in print and labels. I'll have to figure out an easy way to remove the ink. Cutting the thick buckets into small pieces might be a challenge too. Any advice?


Also discovered that shampoo bottles are great as they is variety of colors - currently have black, blue and red.

I would like to know as well, how to cut the sheeets to small pieces. If the pieces are too large that I'm afraid that some air bubbles might be hidden in the result melted stuff..


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## lexlow

stej said:


> Northerner said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just finished melting down a #2 HDPE shampoo bottle to check the consistency. I let it go for around 30 minutes at 370F. The bottle turned into a thick, sticky blob that reminded me of chewing gum. It seems that we should be removing any printing on the bottles. The print shrivels up on the plastic doesn't look so good.
> 
> I have a few 5 gallon (20L) buckets that are #2 HDPE. Unfortunately they are covered in print and labels. I'll have to figure out an easy way to remove the ink. Cutting the thick buckets into small pieces might be a challenge too. Any advice?
> 
> 
> 
> Also discovered that shampoo bottles are great as they is variety of colors - currently have black, blue and red.
> 
> I would like to know as well, how to cut the sheeets to small pieces. If the pieces are too large that I'm afraid that some air bubbles might be hidden in the result melted stuff..
Click to expand...

I've had no are bubbles left, and thats doing it the micarta way i mentioned, and this way. i would just say cut it so it fits ya melting utensil, and that is it. the ss i made for my wife had the pink colour cut small, but that was only for even spacing of the small amount of pink i had. sheets flecks stripes it all seems to bleed the air out from my experience.

oh and on the subject of my wifes ss, she just used it and got a corka of a finger strike!!!! ooooooouuutch! guess i'll be making the coffee then lol i was offering my shooting advise but it did not seem to help


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## stej

lexlow said:


> I've had no are bubbles left, and thats doing it the micarta way i mentioned, and this way. i would just say cut it so it fits ya melting utensil, and that is it. the ss i made for my wife had the pink colour cut small, but that was only for even spacing of the small amount of pink i had. sheets flecks stripes it all seems to bleed the air out from my experience.
> 
> oh and on the subject of my wifes ss, she just used it and got a corka of a finger strike!!!! ooooooouuutch! guess i'll be making the coffee then lol i was offering my shooting advise but it did not seem to help


Thanks for answer. I don't have experience with this kind of material, so I didn't know how liquid it is.

Your wife? finger strike? Uuups, sorry to hear that. Hope she will be ok soon!


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## SlingDaddy

Okay, first up... AWESOME TOPIC! Thank you so much for posting this. If I could rep you multiple times I would.  I've had a couple of slabs of HDPE and while I love the strength and how easy it is to work, I've been bummed that it's nearly impossible to change the colour of it. Now I can DIY a slab of whatever colour (or combinations) I like!

Now on to a good source of sensible earth coloured HDPE to recycle into camo style slabs - watering cans, rain butts etc. That's right - loads of garden containers and utensils are made from HDPE. Grab a few together, melt em down, and viola - poor mans camo composite 

BTW, not done this yet - just got to wait until the missus is away fro the house for an afternoon but i can't wait to try...


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## lexlow

SlingDaddy said:


> Okay, first up... AWESOME TOPIC! Thank you so much for posting this. If I could rep you multiple times I would.  I've had a couple of slabs of HDPE and while I love the strength and how easy it is to work, I've been bummed that it's nearly impossible to change the colour of it. Now I can DIY a slab of whatever colour (or combinations) I like!
> 
> Now on to a good source of sensible earth coloured HDPE to recycle into camo style slabs - watering cans, rain butts etc. That's right - loads of garden containers and utensils are made from HDPE. Grab a few together, melt em down, and viola - poor mans camo composite
> 
> BTW, not done this yet - just got to wait until the missus is away fro the house for an afternoon but i can't wait to try...


ha thanks dude, and i agree with the garden thing, i only noticed yesterday that the garden bin (mine) is hdpe, yippee, now to cut into jagged strips and mix with white from cravendal and should get a nice urban cammo  fingers crossed


----------



## lexlow

oh, and whats a rep point ?


----------



## Imperial

lexlow said:


> oh, and whats a rep point ?


i think he means the "like this" feature


----------



## SlingDaddy

Yes - apologies. I frequent a couple of forums that use "rep", but it's basically the same thing


----------



## Imperial

SlingDaddy said:


> Yes - apologies. I frequent a couple of forums that use "rep", but it's basically the same thing


yup, nothing but ego stroke


----------



## lexlow

coool lol anyway, have made cooling frame for the next project, need about 800 grams 10cm by 13cm by however much i manage to melt


----------



## Bostradamus

#inspired... Thank you so much for sharing this!! Might be my favorite post so far, can't wait to try it for myself!

How bad does it stink? Just asking before I try it with my wife in the house, hahahaha

Now.... to start finding excuses to pour out everything I own :rofl: :naughty:


----------



## lexlow

as long as ya keep the oven at about 180 it should be fine mate


----------



## Mr.Teh

Awesome topic, i like the Patriot, before with the curvy surface and after :thumbsup:


----------



## Bostradamus

One more question, just for a sort of reference.. About how many 1gallon milk jugs does it take for one sheet to the dimensions you make?


----------



## lexlow

i think roughly in real world measurements lol as in, how it actually turns out for me, i would say a block about 10 x 12 x 2 is about 12 - 14 milk jugs. i just screwed up a massive block i made, 13 x 10 x 6 ! drilled the wrong part lmao, it weighed 700g! and turned out wicked until i got my tools on it lol i may put a pic up but i'm rather gutted i made that effort and the stuffed it by stupid error of measurement :-(


----------



## Bostradamus

Sorry that that fell short... I'm baking some up right now, I used some coffee containers.. They are way thicker than the milk jugs and I'm trying to make a smaller block, so hopefully I have enough in there...I took a few pics of my process, so if it works out I'll post them 

Thanks again for this great tutorial!


----------



## Charles

Bostradamus said:


> Sorry that that fell short... I'm baking some up right now, I used some coffee containers.. They are way thicker than the milk jugs and I'm trying to make a smaller block, so hopefully I have enough in there...I took a few pics of my process, so if it works out I'll post them
> 
> Thanks again for this great tutorial!


Post the photos, no matter how it turns out. Even if it is not what you want, we all learn from each other's mistakes ... I learn more from my mistakes than from my successes.

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## Imperial

lexlow said:


> i think roughly in real world measurements lol as in, how it actually turns out for me, i would say a block about 10 x 12 x 2 is about 12 - 14 milk jugs. i just screwed up a massive block i made, 13 x 10 x 6 ! drilled the wrong part lmao, it weighed 700g! and turned out wicked until i got my tools on it lol i may put a pic up but i'm rather gutted i made that effort and the stuffed it by stupid error of measurement :-(


just melt some hdpe in it . or make some lil boards out of it for a pfs ?


----------



## lexlow

hi, here is the run down of my successful/fail at making blue camo hdpe.

first i made a wooden box for the heated hdpe to go in and be formed into a block through applying pressure from above:





  








large mold




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013








after this i googled a few blue camo images to get the rough percentages for the pattern by eye (aware i had lots more blue than other colors lol). then chopped colors up in rough large sections about 5x5cm and there abouts some longer and thinner etc (ya get the idea).





  








blue camo bowl Mix




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013








when doing this, i just concentrated on keeping things simple, and not applying to much faffing around as it will be a random design anyway.
now when trying to melt this much, it will NOT fit in the oven in one go lol the chopped plastic filled a whole shopping bag, propper full.
i used my normal metal bowl and just kept the oven at 185 for fifteen minute, then removed bowl and pressed down the plastic a bit so i could top up with more plastic, then start the clock again for fifteen minutes and kept repeating these steps until all the mix was melted( it took about two hours all together, hense keeping the oven low )
once this was done i used a spoon to remove from bowl, then put it inside the 13cm x 10cm x 10cm mold and put the insert block in the top and applied pressure, then screwed the inside block in possition to wait till cool.
then i removed the block:




  








blue camo block




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013


__
2







this all happened quite late, to late for tools lol, and then the block sat while family life took over  a few days... maybe a day?later i

got a chance to work my magic..... and did not line the fork cuts up correctly :-( in my rush i ruined the original potential.

but consoled myself that the design had come out how i planned, and that hopefully this would inspire some more designs from you guys 





  








blue camo Cut through01




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013











  








blue camo Cut through02




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013











  








blue camo Cut through03




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013


----------



## Bostradamus

I got the blocks made and I'll upload some photos after I cut them out sometime this week.. It worked like a charm! (other than slicing my thumb pretty good, anic: )


----------



## lexlow

oh, and just an idea and or question, i need suggestions for a non stick oil/barrier for putting in the mold while heating...... would make removing it much easier. most oil is ok up past 180 i think.


----------



## lexlow

Bostradamus said:


> I got the blocks made and I'll upload some photos after I cut them out sometime this week.. It worked like a charm! (other than slicing my thumb pretty good, anic: )


nice one, cant wait


----------



## Bostradamus

lexlow said:


> oh, and just an idea and or question, i need suggestions for a non stick oil/barrier for putting in the mold while heating...... would make removing it much easier. most oil is ok up past 180 i think.


I thought about using vegetable oil or something but I was afraid I'd wind up frying the plastic... It's worth a shot!


----------



## lexlow

yes, i was thinking vegi oil, let me know how it goes, i have a friend of mine making a few oven proof molds over the next few days, and he is making a bottle jack based press for the molds to fit in once removed from the oven  so i look forward to testing it out, but really need a way to stop any sticking as i dont wanna ruin the molds.


----------



## ash

See if you can find some Teflon frying pan repair spray. It's just an aerosol spray paint type of thing that is intended to repair scratches in old frying pans ( surprise surprise) and would probably work well for your mould.

I don't know any brand names or where you'd get it, but I know it exists.


----------



## lexlow

dont put anything runny on the mold in any amount larger than just enough to coat the mold though, or i'm guessing it will bleed into the melting plastic resulting in weakness layers i bet


----------



## lexlow

proto mold




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013


__
1







yipeee, my mate has nearly finished the mold part to put in the oven :-D man i got some good mates


----------



## BuBsMuBollock

lexlow said:


> yipeee, my mate has nearly finished the mold part to put in the oven :-D man i got some good mates


Yes u do I have a mate doing the same thing for me


----------



## lexlow

here is a rough work in progress made from the off cuts of previous disaster:





  








blue camo hand




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013











  








blue camo02




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013











  








blue camo pfs01




__
lexlow


__
May 8, 2013


__
2


----------



## slingingjaymie

I have six folgers/maxwell coffee tubs of hdpe. Red and blue. A half gallon milk jug and three automotive quart bottles.

For the ink printing(not stickers) on the coffee tubs, will this cause issues other than added colors? I was thinking about taking Emory cloth and softly buffing off the ink. Ideas? I doubt the ink will burn or fumigate. Unsure how much it would "run". I don't want labels visible. =>

Waitiing to empty a few shampoo bottles. Just takes a while! Slowly stockpiling some plastic!! Lexlow, nice pattern!!

This stuff turns into a taffey after roughly a few hours baking @ 350*F or roughly 178*C by the appearance. At which point you scoop out into the mould.

I notice the mention of using a lubricant to help prevent sticking. Is it because people are baking the hdpe into the melting pot? Have slower, more gradient increments been used over a longer heat cycle to reduce chance of scorching?

I really think putting oils in with the plastic would just make a mess of things. Could cause sediment, diffuse into the hdpe(mentioned), be a fire hazard and well... throwing 325+ F oil on myself as a fry cook in highschool jobs... was not fun!

Thread is looking great. Really enjoyed watching it grow! Awesome works by multiple people. Great contributors here! Creative and nice color swirls too.


----------



## lexlow

well firstly, glad ya like the thread, secondly yup, get rid of the labels! the go horrible and mess any look up of the finished product  good idea about sanding them off, will try that.

and as for the oil as lube, i the amount i'm talking about is the amount you would wipe round to stop a cake or something sticking. and hdpe does not absorb oil at these temps, some peopl even use a full deep fat fryer and submerge the plastic in it! then scoop out the mix and clean it off (yuk) looks like doo doo though and looks like it is nothing like what we are producing.

good luck ;-)

oh and as for the shorter increments, when making a big batch, i found 15 min at a time and just adding a handfull each time ok, took a while, but the amount was about 700grams.

hope that answered your questions.


----------



## slingingjaymie

Hummm... so, you are having that much of an issue with sticking and adhering to the surface of your melting pot? It looked stainless. Have you tried using the rattle can cooking spray? Imagine that may produce similar anti-adhesion results.

I wouldn't bother with "submerged heating". Probably burns it badly.

The container lids on automotive fluids, milk jugs and these coffee tubs. Would you believe them to be hdpe? There are no markings on them. The coffee tubs I think are hdpe. They feel very similar in consistency. Maybe a little more brittle due to being thinner with a more flat surface. A disc with 90 degree lip to grip a ridge in plastic container.

I may be getting close to enough for a small pocket rocket type catapult. Have some gold, silver, blue, red, black and milk jug opaque. The gold and most black are the container lids from coffee. Would like to mix them in but dislike the idea of having non hdpe in the mould.

Any recommendations or thoughts?

Was going to gently scrape the stickers off. Rub residual glue with alcohol then cut in half. Scrub the insides of containers with a detergent and warm water. Rinse and air dry(mostly just the automotive fluid containers. I use hot water and vigorous shaking for milk containers). The coffee tubs should be fine after a rinse too.

Wanting to produce enough "ingots" or bricks to make a few sling shots. Trying to gather material from other people as well. Especially if I can get a bundle of various colors. =>

Thank you for all the help and input!


----------



## flipgun

Hrawke uses a mold release spray on his acrylics molds. that should work.


----------



## lexlow

cheers flipgun, that stuff was on the tip of my lips while i have been thinking of stuff to use.


----------



## flipgun

:thumbsup:


----------



## lexlow

well here is one i experimented with last night. and to answer a question from the other day, a light coating of veggie oil works perfect ;-)





  








HDPE PFS02




__
lexlow


__
May 10, 2013


__
4










  








HDPE PFS01




__
lexlow


__
May 10, 2013











  








HDPE PFS01




__
lexlow


__
May 10, 2013











  








HDPE PFS03




__
lexlow


__
May 10, 2013


__
6







and wow does it shoot great :-D

i have the design i want to do in my head now, and i'll be doing some more tonight !


----------



## slingingjaymie

Nice texture. Liking the multi color. Did you pour from different melting pots in layers? Looks good. Interesting cut emblem!

So just enough oil to wet the surface of melting pot and it comes right out? Any issues with the oil running into mould?

Cannot wait to see what is next.


----------



## lexlow

i only put enough oil to just coat the surface, so i think thats why no issues along those lines. and the color changes were from different layers, like in the hdpe micarta tutorial i made.

cheers, glad ya liked it.


----------



## Bostradamus

I used coffee containers for mine, too but I didn't use the lids since they weren't HDPE... I just plan on sanding off whatever label printing that pokes thru after I shape it, and thanks for trying the oil, I'll do that next time.. My bowl is glass bakeware so it stuck a little bit... my wife is thrilled about that, hahaha

Hopefully I'll get these bad boys cut out tomorrow or sunday so I can finally post pics!


----------



## lexlow

erm yeah, i think i'm gonna abandon my original one pound store steel bowl lol (glad its not my wifes glassware :-D )


----------



## maxpowers

It's great to see this thread growing. I love the customisability (is that a word?) of this material, like in Lexlow's posts, great work there. I haven't had a chance to do any more as of late but have collected a bunch of different colours so soon I hope. Keep it coming!

Cheers max


----------



## lexlow

i gonna do a few more molds for these pfs, i like em alot and i gonna make some to get rid of . so while i make the next lot i'll make a mini tutorial again, very simple these ones, and i think if you all give it a go you'l all have a good success rate. they only take about half hour to cut your own shape out and only take forty mins in the oven at 180. so no smell (thanks to only using 180) no mess (thanks to/rf cx;f; oops kids, as i was saying thanks to the small amounts) think of it as your task for sunday 

gimme a \few hours though pllp/009 as kids are giving me ]'g[;pr0okpl grei=--[]\

--p\ grief !!!!!=p[

oh and these things are called zyclops thanks to lyonn13 who saw the single eye in the design so i nicked the name 

i really want you lot to make this one, i have had more fun shooting this than anything so far lol


----------



## Imperial

HDPE PFS ! how well does the material take a fork hit pfs style ?


----------



## lexlow

well i've had quite a few fork hits on a bad design i made a week ago, and you cant even see a mark. soooo i'd say these little things will do alot better than ya thumb will :-D


----------



## lexlow

bahh, over estimated spare time lol. but here is what i did when i could yesterday:





  








zyklops T01




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013








first start with a design in your head, so you can get a rough idea about template size etc.





  








zyklops T02




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013








this is my new zyclopps design for an ss sorta pfs,





  








zyklops T03




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013








i then place over metal sheet and scribe the outline





  








zyklops T04




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013


__
2







onces cut out, bend sides to make the bottom of the mold.





  








zyklops T05




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013







then make a top that will sit over your plastic. also i cut three layers of roofing lead to the same size to place in on top of everything to keep some pressure on the melting plastic.





  








zyklops T06




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013


__
4







here are both pfs molds, normal and ss.





  








zyklops T07




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013







cut out layers to create your desired pattern etc





  








zyklops T08




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013








place a thin coat of veggie oil inside each mold, then add the plastic, then the top part of the mold, then last the lead, (or heavy heat proof thing shaped to fit 





  








zyklops T09




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013


__
3







hhhhhmmmmmmm, great timing, dinner time. oh well, at least my wife lets me use it and she cooks me dinner so cant moan 




  








zyklops T10w




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013


__
1







when you do get to use the oven, just 35 - 40 minutes at 180c and its done, just leave the whole lot to cool somewhere. although i have found after its cooled a bit, you can take off the top lead and layer, and it makes the plastic curve ever so slightly, which is quite nice when holding.

here are a few i knocked up later in the evening, so i got three to shape.





  








zyklops T11




__
lexlow


__
May 12, 2013


__
1


----------



## stej

@Lexlow I think you should made a new tutorial. This one si a little bit lost here in the thread. Also I didn't get any notification about activity in the thread and that's why people maybe don't see that.


----------



## lexlow

yeah im new to this, thanks for the advice, i take it you mean the last tutorial bit i posted on here? is there an easy way for me to like copy and paste lol


----------



## lexlow

and sorry i been ill the last few days, doped up on co codamol and another thing wiped me out. still managed to almost finish my first catch box though today.


----------



## Jake B

Im gonna try this. Ive got alot of hdpe


----------



## stej

Haha, I have the same Axe shower gel, waiting until it will be empty  Are you sure the Barbie bottle is from HDPE? The same here are from PP or something like that.


----------



## stej

Guys, what do you think about this mold? It's made from alu can. Easy to fold and form. But I'm not sure what the painting inside the mold will do. Does is somehow react at about 200°C? I don't want to start melting or get smelly. My wife's oven, you know..


----------



## Jake B

stej said:


> Haha, I have the same Axe shower gel, waiting until it will be empty  Are you sure the Barbie bottle is from HDPE? The same here are from PP or something like that.


Yeah, its HDPE, but its white under a pink plastic cover


----------



## lexlow

good job dude, (gal?) i would maybe sand the print off the plastic bottles and as for the mold, great, i recon the paint will stay where it is if you rub some oil around like when ya making a cake and using a baking tray.

it gives me a great feelin to se others doing this 

ok, now for some more advice to anyone: so far getting a shine on this stuff has proved hard, i have had ok results using a buffering wheel and some pressure. pics to follow....


----------



## Imperial

anyone here try the aluminum baking sheets and pans sold for cheap ? they come in all shapes and sizes.

HDPE bakery ! ! ! hmm, wonder if you could line it with some bakers joy, :rofl:, i love using that stuff when i

bake some cupcakes or whatever. (im just kidding on the bakers joy spray)


----------



## leon13

@lexlow hope u are better now

chears


----------



## lexlow

cheers, infection of the jaw, think its gone nearly, first day of no pain killers, and started with a tidy of the shed ready for a back logg of stuff my head has been building up lol. really wanted to get some catties out on ebay for the end of the month for some extra cash but have had to give it a miss.

as for baking trays, i recon they would be perfect and even more so lined with bakers joy (i'm assuming its an oil ). you would have to maybe make the top half that you use for top pressure as another baking trya of the same size would have a gap around the side?


----------



## stej

My first try. Just a prove, that it might work for me 

Started with several layers and a "mold" made from alu can (that I posted some days ago). It was in the oven for dozens of minutes, maybe it was too long (not needed). I didn't know how it would behave so I tried to press it somehow, or shape it. The stuff was quite compact, not liquid at all even when we raised temperature from 190°C to 205°C. After that some white smoke started appearing. (would you believe that it was my wife who did that? I wouldn't expect any interest from her, so I was very surprised!). So the temperature went back to 190°C.

The shape is not even, because I didn't try to cut it evenly. That's why it looks weird. Also I added here and there black and white pieces to get some more color.

Also on the back side (all green) it seems that some air remained underneath the plastic. This might be a warning that between layers might be some air too.

Conclusion for me: if I cut several pieces (of the same shape), put it in the mold and try press it during the "baking" hard to join the pieces, the result will be very good.


----------



## Jake B

Looks good Stej


----------



## lexlow

good one stej, dont worry about that first try man, its as good if not better than my first try, i have some horrible lumps in pots from my test bits. ok, so your temp does not need to be over 190 ever ok, some manage it, but i'm not putting mine over that. leave that stuff in there for half hour at least if thats the mold you want to leave it to set in. if you are going to remove it and put it into another say wooden mold, then you will need a sturdy mold, as this stuff never gets more liquid than treakle, so will never be pourable. i normally put layers or cut bits into the mold, then check half hour later, and maybe give it a bit of a push down to get air out, and help the bonding between layers then leave back in for fifteen min or more. if you look at my molds, they have a little squidge out the gaps, which shows i have pushed and its oozed slightly....... saying that, cant find a pic.... will cook some later and take a pic to post.

and wicked your wife showed support, mine does to, its things like that prove ya got the right one 

hope that helped?


----------



## stej

lexlow said:


> good one stej, dont worry about that first try man, its as good if not better than my first try, i have some horrible lumps in pots from my test bits. ok, so your temp does not need to be over 190 ever ok, some manage it, but i'm not putting mine over that. leave that stuff in there for half hour at least if thats the mold you want to leave it to set in. if you are going to remove it and put it into another say wooden mold, then you will need a sturdy mold, as this stuff never gets more liquid than treakle, so will never be pourable. i normally put layers or cut bits into the mold, then check half hour later, and maybe give it a bit of a push down to get air out, and help the bonding between layers then leave back in for fifteen min or more. if you look at my molds, they have a little squidge out the gaps, which shows i have pushed and its oozed slightly....... saying that, cant find a pic.... will cook some later and take a pic to post.
> 
> and wicked your wife showed support, mine does to, its things like that prove ya got the right one
> 
> hope that helped?


The stuff I used wasn't liquid like treacle at all. It was better something like clay. Never mind, I'll try it again later after I prepare better mold 

Sure that helped, thanks!


----------



## lexlow

def hdpe???????


----------



## stej

lexlow said:


> def hdpe???????


Not sure what you are asking about..


----------



## ash

stej said:


> lexlow said:
> 
> 
> 
> def hdpe???????
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are asking about..
Click to expand...

He means, are you sure that your plastic is HDPE?


----------



## stej

I'm sure. Some pieces were just marked as PE and 2 in the triangle, or PEHD, but that should be ok afaik.

Will do some more tests as I find time.

Any other member here who tried melting HDPE and also found out that it was more like clay?


----------



## lexlow

by no means am i critisizing, but i am proper intrigued  all i can say is, try again, and take detailed notes, and if it happens again, maybe we need to evaluate extra variables? fan assisted cooker, gass or electric? hmmm ... do let us know.


----------



## lexlow

stej said:


> lexlow said:
> 
> 
> 
> def hdpe???????
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure what you are asking about..
Click to expand...

thanks for translating


----------



## ash

It's important to note that many ovens array not well calibrated. The temperature on the dial may be 50°C different to the temperature inside the oven.

When comparing my oven dial to a thermometer for baking, it was reading more than 50 degrees low.


----------



## Charles

ash said:


> It's important to note that many ovens array not well calibrated. The temperature on the dial may be 50°C different to the temperature inside the oven.
> 
> When comparing my oven dial to a thermometer for baking, it was reading more than 50 degrees low.


Excellent point! This seems to be a very common phenomenon. In my case, the oven was quite a bit hotter than the dial setting ... always seemed to burn my biscuits until I got an auxiliary thermometer and checked it.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## stej

lexlow said:


> by no means am i critisizing, but i am proper intrigued  all i can say is, try again, and take detailed notes, and if it happens again, maybe we need to evaluate extra variables? fan assisted cooker, gass or electric? hmmm ... do let us know.


I felt no critisizing.. just answered. All ok here 

You are right, that there might be more variables. I use electric oven with fan. There are more programs, I didn't experimented with them, but I doubt the result would be much different.



ash said:


> It's important to note that many ovens array not well calibrated. The temperature on the dial may be 50°C different to the temperature inside the oven.
> 
> When comparing my oven dial to a thermometer for baking, it was reading more than 50 degrees low.


Good point. However, I don't have anything how to measure temperature inside, so I can only trust the oven. It's quite new used for cooking, that's why I hope it might show the temperature +- right. Of course, I might be wrong


----------



## lexlow

same here stej, i dont have all these fangled temp thingies lol so like me, its gonna be trial and error mate


----------



## B.P.R

My efforts...


----------



## B.P.R

Another 2..... with lids in this time...










And another....a gift for a friend..


----------



## NicklePanda

Nice work there and colors!!! What design is that? -Leo


----------



## leon13

jauser !! veri nice

cheers


----------



## Catapultkraig

how do yous cut it out i have a dremel but what cutting disc would i need


----------



## lexlow

thats so cool, nice cutting out. hard to get a shine on this stuff though


----------



## Dr J

Looking at all these posts, I wondered if any one thought of making a mold and pouring the melted plastic into it and then using a car jack to really compress it. This would certainly eliminate a lot of work, as the hard work would have been done before. Many molds could be made depending on the style required. Just a thought! Any comments!


----------



## flipgun

From what I understand Dr J, It is more of a mass rather than a pourable, but after pressing a few thousand burgers in molds. I believe the idea to be valid. But you would have to move pretty fast I think.


----------



## Dr J

Thanks for your reply, when I use the heat gun to soften PVC once it gets malleable enough I can hold it and it retains the shape when cooled. If a 5-10 ton jack is used, and the pressure is retained as it cools, that should work. Any way, as soon as I get a break, I intend to give it a try. If it does not work, we will all know!


----------



## flipgun

Cookie cutters for slingshots, Maybe?


----------



## Dr J

Now you are cooking! But under good pressure so that the material is compacted. Forceing out any voids.


----------



## lexlow

i use an industrial/office shredder to compress the top and bottom plates together, it is crazy heavey, and although the surface is not always perfect, the interior is always spot on and void of air. so i think if you were to make a shiny mold and a way of forcing the plastic in it would work. saying that, i like having the standard block to work from each time, its my starting point for alot of my designs.

good luck, my engineering is not good enough to make a more elaborate mold though :-(.

i look forward to seeing some results


----------



## Dr J

Has any one tried to flatten the malleable product using a car jack? The amount of pressure exerted is unbelievable !


----------



## lexlow

ha ha.... mt mate has a thing using a bottle jack that compresses two plates evenly together, gonna test it this week.


----------



## B.P.R

i just use a square mould like so...

compress the molten hdpe in a jig...clamped underneather a sheet of ply..2 sheets infact....

keep the vices level and your sheet will be level.










my favourite sling by far...small...concealable and tough!


----------



## lexlow

nice one blue


----------



## Beanflip

I tried melting my starboard sheet scrap. It didn't work. But, after seeing the santa sling you made for Ash I had to re read this thread. (Awesome job on that one Lex!) I used the wrong temp! I tried 180 Fahrenheit.


----------



## lexlow

ahhhh easy peezy mistake ;-) it is kinda second nature (or getting there) heating it up now, although, i am gonna start knocking some out in the near future, and i am getting an oven for the shed (cheap) so i will have to get used to new settings on that one to.

i have just chopped and sliced 3.5 kg of a blue camo mix (thats alot) ready for twelve more catties to complete the range, to allow some for sale, and one of each to keep.


----------



## NicklePanda

So the best way to melt these hpde is after getting in shaved pieces??? Hmm looks like I'm going to save those cutoff pieces that I have to be melted and mold later. This thread is awesome!!!
-Leo


----------



## lexlow

shaved would be ok, but to be honest, it can be a block. i have just had to make a larger block for the slightly larger catties i'm making, and as i am just finding out the amount i need to melt to fill the block mold to the correct hight i over estimated the first two times. so what i will be doing today is just slicing a bit off the block, and then heating back up to 180 ish or above and then i'll put it back in the mold and re press so it squashes to the right level. i'll take pics today. wish i had video capability !


----------



## Beanflip

Test fail.


----------



## Imperial

Beanflip said:


> Test fail.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1374953105.957303.jpg


wow ! looks like you were trying to make hash.


----------



## G30

Beanflip was this fail from the wrong temp post or new discovery? Am shredding 5 gallon bucket to try and gathering as much as I can.


----------



## Beanflip

The temp was to high. I am trying a toaster oven. I have an oven thermometer in it to find the actual temp. Also just wanted to see what would happen. This looks better.


----------



## Dr J

Has anyone tried a Vulcanizer to make a HDPE sheet?


----------



## lexlow

wtf is that dr j, do explain  please, all for new input ;-)


----------



## Dr J

A vulcanizer is equipment used by Jewelers, dentist and others for making rubber molds. I am not in Cayman at this time, so I cannot post an image. When I get home in a couple of days I will post a photo of one.


----------



## lexlow

sounds interesting 

here are the latest creations, i made them for the secret santa:





  








ham




__
lexlow


__
Jul 29, 2013


__
1










  








sscamo




__
lexlow


__
Jul 29, 2013


__
4










  








ss and ham




__
lexlow


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Jul 29, 2013




the pair i swapped in slingshot santa


----------



## lexlow

i have a larger version and smaller version of each to make, with slight changes to suit grip and to take different band combos





  








slabs To Go




__
lexlow


__
Jul 29, 2013


__
7


----------



## Beanflip

lexlow said:


> sounds interesting
> here are the latest creations, i made them for the secret santa:


I think these are fantastic!


----------



## lexlow

cheers mate, try try and try again


----------



## leon13

lexlow said:


> i have a larger version and smaller version of each to make, with slight changes to suit grip and to take different band combos


OH I TAKE THE JELLOW REDISH ONE

na just shaking those colors are stunning !!! U real go to mass production Ha ?? Thumps Up

Cheers


----------



## lexlow

ah ha leon, i did promise you one, didnt i? and yup, gonna start making them for sale soon. i will post pics asap


----------



## Beanflip

lexlow said:


> ah ha leon, i did promise you one, didnt i? and yup, gonna start making them for sale soon. i will post pics asap


Put me on the list for a slab!


----------



## Beanflip

Did I miss advise on removing the stickers from detergent bottles? Is there a solvent that works?


----------



## flipgun

Beanflip said:


> Did I miss advise on removing the stickers from detergent bottles? Is there a solvent that works?


Goo-Gone should do it.


----------



## ash

Kerosene is quite good, too.


----------



## leon13

well a less stinky solution is oil or butter takes of any sticky left overs, apply and wait than whip or rub it away takes some time but wont stink and do no harm to your lungs.

cheers


----------



## lexlow

leon13 said:


> well a less stinky solution is oil or butter takes of any sticky left overs, apply and wait than whip or rub it away takes some time but wont stink and do no harm to your lungs.
> 
> cheers


yeah i am with you on that one leon, purely as i have not got chems or money for them, so i tend to rub them of or scrape them, heat it up in hot water normally gets em moving, is a pain. i will sometime spend ages prepping the plastic, but it kinda depends on how annoying its being and how much you want that colour.

ask your family and friends to save anything with a "2" and they will normally in my experience. you'l be surprised what stuff you get back, and most people recycle anyway, so i think they prefer to give it to a worthy cause.


----------



## leon13

lexlow said:


> leon13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> well a less stinky solution is oil or butter takes of any sticky left overs, apply and wait than whip or rub it away takes some time but wont stink and do no harm to your lungs.
> 
> cheers
> 
> 
> 
> yeah i am with you on that one leon, purely as i have not got chems or money for them, so i tend to rub them of or scrape them, heat it up in hot water normally gets em moving, is a pain. i will sometime spend ages prepping the plastic, but it kinda depends on how annoying its being and how much you want that colour.
> 
> ask your family and friends to save anything with a "2" and they will normally in my experience. you'l be surprised what stuff you get back, and most people recycle anyway, so i think they prefer to give it to a worthy cause.
Click to expand...

well i am so exited that u really go on that recycling road,i al reedy have 2 other friends ho bagging for on of Yours so just to let U know ;-) i will share some packet space ;-)

over hear they recycle in yellow garbage bags so u just need to dumpster-dive that stuff u want.

If i find time i will give it a try in the future.

cheers


----------



## Beanflip

I stopped at the recycling center after work today. 
"I see slingshots!"


----------



## ash

Orange and purple!

Put my name in the queue for an orange and purple trade, Beano :cookie:


----------



## Beanflip

ash said:


> Orange and purple!
> 
> Put my name in the queue for an orange and purple trade, Beano :cookie:


How about green and purple like the Hulk.


----------



## Beanflip

?


----------



## stej

Beanflip said:


> I stopped at the recycling center after work today.
> "I see slingshots!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1375307421.855287.jpg


Wooow, you lucky man!


----------



## lexlow

wow, nice haul  i wish i had a car to get to the recycling place!


----------



## Dr J

With all the available raw material you can certainly be very creative! Based on request so far ,that is exactly what you will be doing.


----------



## Dr J

As promised here are two not too good photos of a Vulvanizer. This uses two plates, can be any size that will fit between a frame, we usually use aluminum, these are packed with unvulcanized rubber and the heat turned on, both top and bottom plates heat up. As the rubber softens it collapses and so more raw rubber is added this is done until the mold cannot hold any more rubber and there is some spillage indicating that the frame is adequately packed. The wheel is tightened and the built in timer is started. After a period the power is turned off and the rubber is allowed to cool. From raw rubber to vulcanized rubber in a shot time. After experimenting with various materials and times, one should be able to create perfect slabs consistently. The smaller the particles used for plastic the better I think it will work. Rubber comes in fixed dimensions so shredding is nt necessary
This equipment is heavy. I am sure a second hand one could be obtained at a reasonable price. They last almost forever.


----------



## Imperial

random thought- some plastic is thin enough to run through a paper shredder


----------



## ash

Ah, that the kind of thing used to make moulds for pewter casting. I suppose you used one in your jewellery enterprise, Dr J.


----------



## Dr J

I certainly did. Had it in storage! Had go dig it out when most folks did not know what I was talking about. I have not used it in years, but I am sure it still works. Have to look for the frames then I will give it a test run


----------



## ash

Hmmmm... This is an interesting development. You're giving me ideas.


----------



## lexlow

imperial, i use a big ass paper shredder at the moment to do half the shredding, wont take it sideways once its been eaten. but saves some time, and also produces a more consistant result.


----------



## Beanflip

Preparing for an attempt.


----------



## flipgun

Lookin' forward to see it.


----------



## lexlow

that is going to be awsome colours dude


----------



## Beanflip

So far it's going well. After the first press it's only about half an inch thick.


----------



## Imperial

lookin good bean ! nothing but the best for you, cant wait to see the hulk slingshot- bean smash ! ! !


----------



## Beanflip

Hulk smash!


----------



## ash

Inspiring!

I'm having visions of custom moulded palm swells, now.


----------



## Dr J

What did the final thickness end up being!


----------



## lexlow

yo beanflip. nice result!

what i suggest is weighing the block and then you can figure out how much weight in plastic you need to put in the mould to form the correct thickness 

happy days, i have a feeling the next one will be mega hulk ! ! !


----------



## BCLuxor

What is the weight of the plastic you use Lexlow, and the dimensions of your mould ... seeing the multi color slabs has re inspired me..


----------



## stej

Just a weird thought - have anyone here considered to combine the hdpe with wood? I mean to have a HDEP slingshot with a wooden palmswell. Honestly, I'm not able to imagine any good combination but there might be some..


----------



## ash

Yes, I'm thinking of a wooden slingshot with an HDPE palm swell. Or maybe micarta/HDPE. Or aluminium/HDPE.


----------



## lexlow

ash you are the man to do the micarta alli combo, would love to see a recurve utilizing that!!!


----------



## lexlow

here is another one done today, needs a bit of tarting up and some rubber but not bad. oh and a pic of the off cuts from the other six in the not finished pile.





  








Photo0537




__
lexlow


__
Aug 5, 2013











  








Photo0535




__
lexlow


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Aug 5, 2013


__
6










  








Photo0534




__
lexlow


__
Aug 5, 2013


----------



## Beanflip

I love the yellow and red combo!

Is there how to info earlier in the thread about figuring the weight and the amount you need?


----------



## lexlow

i think the best way is prob to pick a container and trial and error. i think i did touch on it earlier, but ya kinda gotta guess a little. but when ya get to know your oven, top or middle shelf, times, what pot and what cut for your plastic, it is repeatable ninety percent of the time. then its just a matter of changing the variables, colour, thickness, slight patterns and the cuts.


----------



## Imperial

everytime i see the yellow and red colors im reminded of










issedoff:i hate hogan ! . . . but i like the hulkamania slingshot


----------



## Beanflip

"Oh ya brother!"


----------



## ceedub

This may have already been brought up but can this stuff be flame polished? If not how do you get the finished shine?


----------



## ash

Beanflip said:


> Is there how to info earlier in the thread about figuring the weight and the amount you need?


The density of HDPE is about 0.95 kg/m3 on average. Slightly less than water.

You could calculate the volume of your tray at the desired depth or the desired slab thickness. Multiply volume in m3 by 0.95 to get the weight in kg.

Or you could simply fill your tray up with water to the desired thickness/level and weigh it the water or pour it into a measuring jug to get a conservative figure for the required weight of raw material.

DIY trays with non-water tight corners could be temporarily sealed with tape or wax.


----------



## lexlow

could not have said it better ash, in fact i didnt lol 

but also, from my experience flaming does not seem to work :-( i have found that machining the surface is the best way by far so far (alliteration). I , e router, drill, blade etc.


----------



## hickymick

I made one like this its unfinished ... as most of my cattys are :what: I am toying with the idea of a thumb dint like a old malbro style but with a cover over top in brass as alot of people fire a catty this way but I fear for there thumbs ...


----------



## lexlow

rigged an end of a large hacksaw blade holder into an extension bar for a screwdriver. allowing me to use an electric screwdriver to wind the very shallow thread round relativly quickly when setting the mold for cooling. i'm waiting for it to cool now, and expect it to be wonky first time as i find the best position, another load of hdpe is baking at the ready, pics to follow!





  








overflow Run Out




__
lexlow


__
Aug 14, 2013




slats at the base either side allow overflow when the mold is set.









  








Oak frame




__
lexlow


__
Aug 14, 2013




 nice oak bed slats made into a frame to take the bottle jack and mold.









  








frame jack And block mold




__
lexlow


__
Aug 14, 2013




rigged an end of a large hacksaw blade holder into an extension bar for a screwdriver. allowing...


----------



## lexlow

here is the first slab, actually came out an even 20mm all over without curve, got lucky, next one might be licky ya never know. gonna put some stoppers in it tomorrow, then it should be more controllable. and as for the frame taking the pressure(which i thought might be a problem) it coped fine, the actual pressure did not seem to be needed as much, although the gearing on the bottle jack is immense.





  








Rby surface 01




__
lexlow


__
Aug 14, 2013











  








Rby




__
lexlow


__
Aug 14, 2013











  








Rby surface 02




__
lexlow


__
Aug 14, 2013


----------



## B.P.R

Lexlow pm me and empty your inbox mate.


----------



## Dr J

I am please the bottle neck jack is proving useful! I thought it wood.


----------



## JetBlack

Ive been saving my scraps of black and red. Its going to look sick swirled. Ive been thinking of making a mold lie you would with resin. So your mold is it a sheet mold or sling shot mold?I know this stuff has to be under pressure or it gets all funky on you so I thought a ss mold prob would not work. Let us know.People have been recycling hdpe for years in other countries, Ive read they make everything from toys to car parts. Another awesome property of synthetics.


----------



## Dr J

Something tis wrong with this program! I type would and wood appears. What's the problem?


----------



## B.P.R

This stuffs Great!!!

Practically unbreakable...

Re-useable...

AND FLOATS!!!










pops right back up....

A fishermans catty haha...


----------



## lexlow

i thought these colours for a zombie effect 





  








zombie colour Top




__
lexlow


__
Aug 15, 2013











  








zombie colours




__
lexlow


__
Aug 15, 2013








they are white milk bottles(not opaque), clear green milk bottle lids(semi skimmed), normal opaque milk bottles and a chillie red bottle that had an opaqueness to it rather than a solid colour.


----------



## lexlow

i have started another thread for finished catties in home made catapults, called HDPE (home made) creations

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/25724-hdpe-home-made-creations/


----------



## lexlow

latest block mold try out. box needs a little more beefing out on its base, easy fix, will stop it curving ever so slightly. i'm after the perfect block maker 





  








New Box




__
lexlow


__
Aug 17, 2013











  








first block 02




__
lexlow


__
Aug 17, 2013











  








first block




__
lexlow


__
Aug 17, 2013








this block is 95mm by 130mm, and tappers from 20mm to 25mm end to end


----------



## lexlow

oh and another pic of the inside of the box. i'm hoping to get a perfect block former, so that i can try some more creative ways of forming the so far, random swirls.





  








New Box Lid




__
lexlow


__
Aug 17, 2013


----------



## B.P.R

Jealous my friend!....

If only i had the time!!


----------



## lexlow

unemployed mate, so plenty of time. i am starting a small business making slingshots though, so will be self employed in a month. first range coming soooon ;-)

i am spending loadsa time sorting the boring paperwork out at the moment tax blah blah lol and everything form that down to the final models i'm using for the launch and the process to make them so i can make a profit. all busy busy busy, and all with my fingers crossed too lol

MAJOR slingshots coming soon


----------



## Beanflip

Seeing your jig with the car jack gives me an idea for what I could build. Thanks


----------



## lexlow

had a problem with the jigg last night. as the plastic hardened, i squeezed the jack a bit more, and the top plate (2mm steel and 9mm ply) bent slightly in the middle, the plate is not strong enough(was not). i have re enforced the plate and straightened it, waiting for glue to dry atm. once dry, i need to make a metal plate to sit on top of the plate where the jack sits so the force is evenly distributed. the underside of the box flexed no more than a millimeter, so i am putting a beam of oak running along the middle also, just to give it a longer life while i get used to the force to apply. also the box is 5mm thinner than the original, and does not ooze out the sides so much, so the amount of hdpe i used to put in the mould to say get a 20mm thick slab is wrong. i need to reduce the amount put in to get the correct thickness.

next stage update later. unless my missus drops the sprogg of course!


----------



## ash

Here's an idea - if you make the mould in a vertical orientation, that is, the jack presses the slab from the top edge downwards, you will get a lot more pressure into the material for a given force applied to the jack.

It's a simple engineering relationship > Pressure = Force ÷ Area

So, if you are pressing on a smaller side, you get more pressure.

You could enhance that effect even more and save material by making a tapered mould like the folded aluminium ones you had a while ago. You'll need a parallel section towards the top where the "piston" squashes the HDPE into the cavity, but the handle end can be tapered with a vent hole at the bottom.

You may also be able to speed up the process with a simple lever-press to pre-squash the molten blob into a 20mm thick wafer that can be more easily and quickly dropped into the main mould.

I'll draw something up if my explanation is too vague.

PS... it may actually be possible to apply enough pressure with a simple wooden lever by this method. That would be a lot quicker than pumping the bottle jack. Time seems to be a big factor here.


----------



## lexlow

i like the idea, i dont know what the correct term would be, but the mechanism for the arm would work well if it was like a quick release wheel, so as you move the lever it gets fatter from the pivot point. ya got me thinking again ash.


----------



## Beanflip

ash said:


> Here's an idea - if you make the mould in a vertical orientation, that is, the jack presses the slab from the top edge downwards, you will get a lot more pressure into the material for a given force applied to the jack.
> 
> It's a simple engineering relationship > Pressure = Force ÷ Area
> 
> So, if you are pressing on a smaller side, you get more pressure.
> 
> You could enhance that effect even more and save material by making a tapered mould like the folded aluminium ones you had a while ago. You'll need a parallel section towards the top where the "piston" squashes the HDPE into the cavity, but the handle end can be tapered with a vent hole at the bottom.
> 
> You may also be able to speed up the process with a simple lever-press to pre-squash the molten blob into a 20mm thick wafer that can be more easily and quickly dropped into the main mould.
> 
> I'll draw something up if my explanation is too vague.
> 
> PS... it may actually be possible to apply enough pressure with a simple wooden lever by this method. That would be a lot quicker than pumping the bottle jack. Time seems to be a big factor here.


I would love to see a drawing if you wouldn't mind Ash. I just threw a jig together this morning but, all I have to do is unscrew it.


----------



## Dr J

Creative minds at work, it won't be too long !


----------



## lexlow

just waiting for the block to cool down. its looking promising though, i think the thicker plunger lid has helped keep the down action level. and the electric screw driver speeds the winding (although it has a dodgy internal switch that needs a wiggle or bash to get it to work. half hour and i'll post the pick .


----------



## lexlow

as promised, the new block from the straightened mold. its as good as i hoped for. had to do another zombie colour 





  








New zombie 01 face




__
lexlow


__
Aug 18, 2013











  








New zombie 01




__
lexlow


__
Aug 18, 2013











  








New zombie 01 side




__
lexlow


__
Aug 18, 2013


----------



## ash

Here are some pictures of my idea (in horizontal orientation)

1. The basic arrangement with the side omitted to show the inside shape. The slab would end up just like the piston. Make the whole thing of strong plywood the same thickness as your final slab.









2. You would need a door (breech) to get the HDPE blob into the mould. A long wooden handle might be enough to flatten it and close the door. Would need latches of some kind.









3. Looking from the top, down now. This arrangement would obviously result in a rectangular black that still needs alot of cutting and leaves a lot of waste.









4. By dropping a pair of triangular ply fillers into the corners, you'd reduce waste and possibly the pressure required.









5. A more complex set of filler shapes could get you a lot closer to your final shape. indeed it is possible that you could mould the exact shape and push the whole lot out in one go with ejector pins (bolts or dowels). You may not even have to wait for it to cool down. Let it cool sitting in it's "sabot" of plywood fillers, load another set of fillers and mould the next one straight away.


----------



## stej

I haven't made any similar jig so far, so could anybody from you tell me how to ensure that there is no air in the slab? From my experience the melted HDPE is still quite rigid and doesn't flow like water. So some possibly large air bubles might be inside. And I would guess it's more probable because of these press machines where there is only a little space for the air to escape.


----------



## lexlow

i tend to give it plenty of time to settle as you are melting it in the oven. it tends to leach the air out itself. of course you get some air bubbles, but nothing worth worrying about. melting large layers together will always have the issue of air bubbles, but as long as you are just chucking it in a bowl it should settle. about every fifteen minutes i get a spoon out and separate the melting plastic from the bowl as best i can, turning the ball over near the start to.

nice diagram ASH, bit like the first one i made, but abandoned (not sure why) for the vertical method. i have more room vertically, but i think horizontal would def be more controllable when setting the pressure.


----------



## JetBlack

what if you leave it in big chunks and try melting it down


----------



## lexlow

i often re melt the chunks left over from the cut out blocks, they melt fine, def would not bother minimizing them to melt, would be a waste of time and energy


----------



## stej

From what you said I would expect that if I have decent amount of bottle caps, I can just put the into the oven without any cutting, shreding or whatever, am I right?


----------



## lexlow

stej said:


> From what you said I would expect that if I have decent amount of bottle caps, I can just put the into the oven without any cutting, shreding or whatever, am I right?


yup, they would work great steg. chuck em in, 185 in the oven, i use a spoon to give e'm a stir and scrape off the bowl surface, just coz in my oven the top plastic always gets hot first . then i check and give a little stir every twenty minutes until golden brown........ erm well not golden brown........unless the plastic was already golden brown ? bah , you know what i mean. easy peasy.


----------



## Shazam

I found this video tutorial which i think might be of use to members on this thread.

Cheers, Frank. 






p.s. just had a thought... how about using those teflon toaster pockets/bags?


----------



## lexlow

luv the toaster bag idea lol now thats thinkin outside the box! not sure i would totally pooh pooh the idea, i think it may have a use in some concept. and that video may have been posted up here somewhere i think on one of the hdpe threads already, nevertheless, its a good vid, and any newer people to this thread should watch it as it helps convey some of the process well.


----------



## lexlow

hi, for all you hdpe builders, i have set a task in another post to build a slingshot from scratch, for a little prize give away here is me link to it: http://slingshotforum.com/topic/25959-hdpe-annimae/


----------



## lexlow

well here is the zombie, better pics need to be taken but it is rather nice if i say so myself 





  








zombie done




__
lexlow


__
Sep 1, 2013


__
1










  








zombie done 2




__
lexlow


__
Sep 1, 2013


----------



## ash

Cool shape. Zombie is the perfect name for it!


----------



## lexlow

got these two for sale in the for sale thread here http://slingshotforum.com/topic/26175-hdpe-pinky-and-fire/





  








pinky fire




__
lexlow


__
Sep 2, 2013


----------



## lexlow

another two in the for sale section.





  








Major zombie Ss




__
lexlow


__
Sep 4, 2013











  








side Major zombie Ss




__
lexlow


__
Sep 4, 2013











  








Major brown Ss




__
lexlow


__
Sep 4, 2013











  








Major brown Ss side




__
lexlow


__
Sep 4, 2013


----------



## Mr.Teh

Very nice color mix in your hdpe slingshots, really cool !


----------



## ash

Here's the industrial version:


----------



## lexlow

that man is gonna lose a finger if he aint careful lol that shredder is a bit tame for my, i use dynamite


----------



## Lacumo

I just tried that "Goo Gone" stuff to take the labels off of some laundry detergent (the red liquid Tide one and a couple others) HDPE jugs. I used the oven and grill cleaner Goo Gone stuff and it had no effect on the label at all. I let the first try sit for >20 minutes and nothing happened, so I let the second try sit for >1 hour and nothing happened. I looked at the Goo Gone website and they have an entire family of different products. Which is the right one to get those hard-to-kill labels off of those jugs? These labels aren't printed on like coffee or coffee creamer jugs -- they're nasty glued on things.


----------



## ash

I just cut the label covered plastic out of the bottle and bin it. You loose a small bit of HDPE and save a lot of screwing around.


----------



## Lacumo

I was thinking about that, but the jugs in question have a pretty sizable label on both the front and the back and the two of them probably cover 1/3 of the jug. I don't have access to a lot of these things, so unfortunately this counts. They are a PITA, though -- you've got me thinking that maybe I should put my energy into developing access to more of them instead of into processing the ones that I do get.


----------



## ash

I've been finding HDPE in more and more places since I started looking. I guess it depends on what you buy/eat and what materials are common. I know you guys use a lot more paper based packaging than we do, so maybe there is less HDPE around.

I best restaurants go through a bunch of bottles every day. Oil bottles from a motor mechanic. Detergent and fabric softener bottles from a laundry. Offcuts from a sign fabricator.


----------



## Dr J

Have you tried Acetone on the labels? It works on most things. Also fill the container with very hot water, leave it for a while then scrape. The Acetone should work.


----------



## lexlow

i (when needed) use hot water which loosens the label, and once down to the gooey stuff scrape with a single edged razor, it works for me.


----------



## ash

And it works for the industrial process. Water bath and caustic soda bath for the stubborn ones.


----------



## Lacumo

Thanks for the ideas. I've used acetone (in a glass jar) to take paint off of silver coins and I know it beats up on plastics, so I'm hesitant to use it on plastic jug labels. I'm trying the hot water thing---here's hoping. The one thing that'll probably be the winner is expanding my HDPE source scrounging. There are a couple car repair garages, a big combo laundromat+dry cleaner and a shopping mall with half a dozen restaurants all within a mile of where I live. Today I hit the road and go canvassing. With luck, I'll end up with so much HDPE I'll just use the unlabeled jug parts and throw away the labelled parts.

Ash -- just to clarify your last point -- what are the caustic soda product(s) that it'd be good to use -- Borax?


----------



## lexlow

elbow grease works well with the hot water ;-)


----------



## ash

Lacumo said:


> Ash -- just to clarify your last point -- what are the caustic soda product(s) that it'd be good to use -- Borax?


I have no idea what is readily available. Borax might work, I've never tried it. If there's a caustic soda based cleaning product available at your local supermarket or hardware store, that might be the place to try. Rubber gloves and caution - it's not at all skin friendly.

Kerosene is another one and probably safer than caustic soda.


----------



## flipgun

ash said:


> Lacumo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ash -- just to clarify your last point -- what are the caustic soda product(s) that it'd be good to use -- Borax?
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what is readily available. Borax might work, I've never tried it. If there's a caustic soda based cleaning product available at your local supermarket or hardware store, that might be the place to try. Rubber gloves and caution - it's not at all skin friendly.
> 
> Kerosene is another one and probably safer than caustic soda.
Click to expand...

Caustic soda is Draino and stuff like that. SERIOUS nasty.


----------



## lexlow

i would suggest avoiding em, as the process of cooking and tools is surely enough chances to injure yourself lol get that stuff in ya eye and you wont be shooting for a few days thats for sure 

be safe ;-)


----------



## Lacumo

Yeah---thanks for the thought. I'm not going chemical. If I had a workbench in a back yard with good air movement I might give it a rip but I'm an apartment dweller, so chemical processes don't fit well in my little world. I've got abundant sources of HDPE jugs--all I have to do is get in gear, go scrounging and collect them. Whatever labels don't come off reasonably easily---those parts of those jugs are getting cut out and put in the trash for professional recycling. Life is too short for me to bust my chops with those nasty things.


----------



## ash

I chopped up a bunch of bit 20 Litre drums with the bandsaw last night. Neighbours weren't happy with the SCREEEEEEE! noises and chucked some rocks or something onto the roof. Screw-em! It's an industrial area and no-one forced them to stand on their balcony and adore the view of factory roofs! :rofl:


----------



## stej

ash said:


> I chopped up a bunch of bit 20 Litre drums with the bandsaw last night. Neighbours weren't happy with the SCREEEEEEE! noises and chucked some rocks or something onto the roof. Screw-em! It's an industrial area and no-one forced them to stand on their balcony and adore the view of factory roofs! :rofl:


I hate that noise! I hope they survived in a good mental health


----------



## lexlow

lol


----------



## Beanflip

I've got some King Starboard cut offs in the oven this morning. It seems to be going well. They started 3/4" thick so the new melt will be between there and 1/2" I am guessing.


----------



## Metropolicity

Lacumo said:


> Yeah---thanks for the thought. I'm not going chemical. If I had a workbench in a back yard with good air movement I might give it a rip but I'm an apartment dweller, so chemical processes don't fit well in my little world. I've got abundant sources of HDPE jugs--all I have to do is get in gear, go scrounging and collect them. Whatever labels don't come off reasonably easily---those parts of those jugs are getting cut out and put in the trash for professional recycling. Life is too short for me to bust my chops with those nasty things.


Have you tried using an orange oil based goo gone? Or lift off? Those seem to work for me when I take labels and stickers off.


----------



## Beanflip

Still melting the King Starboard. It's two layers thick now. The bottom wasn't flat, so I've upped the temp, flipped it over and put the weight back on it. It's cooling right now. Maybe I'll get one more cut out before the 19th.


----------



## Beanflip

Ready for another melt.


----------



## Beanflip

Now I need a planer.


----------



## Beanflip

My neighbor had a planer! Sweet!


----------



## flipgun

That is gonna be killer!


----------



## Mr.Teh

That is going to a nice shooter, cool experiment !


----------



## Beanflip

View attachment 41375


More pics in the HDPE annimae thread.


----------



## Beanflip




----------



## Beanflip




----------



## flipgun

Outforkingstanding!


----------



## lexlow

if i could do a thumbs up i would say eff in excellent


----------



## stej

Tried to make a slab from bottle caps.









Still on the way, but the partial result is this.

















I will fold it probably at least once. The tricky part is that when the bottle caps are already melted, they tend to leave wholes in the middle. So I need to press all of them (I did it with a spoon) so that the middle parts are filled. Otherwise the holes would be places when air bubbles would appear for sure.


----------



## leon13

stej said:


> Tried to make a slab from bottle caps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-17 21.37.52.jpg
> 
> Still on the way, but the partial result is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.33.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.55.jpg
> 
> I will fold it probably at least once. The tricky part is that when the bottle caps are already melted, they tend to leave wholes in the middle. So I need to press all of them (I did it with a spoon) so that the middle parts are filled. Otherwise the holes would be places when air bubbles would appear for sure.


that is some killer color c(z)ombi me like a lot


----------



## stej

Just to show you the potential problem, look at the picture. There are already three bottle caps in the shape of a circle.


----------



## stej

leon13 said:


> stej said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to make a slab from bottle caps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-17 21.37.52.jpg
> 
> Still on the way, but the partial result is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.33.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.55.jpg
> 
> I will fold it probably at least once. The tricky part is that when the bottle caps are already melted, they tend to leave wholes in the middle. So I need to press all of them (I did it with a spoon) so that the middle parts are filled. Otherwise the holes would be places when air bubbles would appear for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> that is some killer color c(z)ombi me like a lot
Click to expand...

That's the result from yesterday when I found a while. I'm quite curious whether it will work as a slab for a slingshot.


----------



## leon13

stej said:


> leon13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stej said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to make a slab from bottle caps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-17 21.37.52.jpg
> 
> Still on the way, but the partial result is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.33.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.55.jpg
> 
> I will fold it probably at least once. The tricky part is that when the bottle caps are already melted, they tend to leave wholes in the middle. So I need to press all of them (I did it with a spoon) so that the middle parts are filled. Otherwise the holes would be places when air bubbles would appear for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> that is some killer color c(z)ombi me like a lot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the result from yesterday when I found a while. I'm quite curious whether it will work as a slab for a slingshot.
Click to expand...

i hope so its really some nice color zombie i like it a lot ;-)


----------



## stej

leon13 said:


> i hope so its really some nice color zombie i like it a lot ;-)


Then in case it will work, that could be my part of the trade


----------



## lexlow

i'm speechless people, my work here is done lol. i'm bang on the next stage of my journey to set up shop 

anyway, i started the thread to find a way of getting this stuff shiny, as i had tried everything i could think of, and as you lot know, even making the plastic takes a bit of trial and error even when someone is telling you how its done lol.


----------



## Lacumo

Stej---are all those bottlecaps you're using labeled HDPE or with the recycling triangle logo with the number 2 in it? I've been looking over the caps and tops I've been getting. Some are labeled with the triangle with the number 1 or 5 in it and some have no identification, but none are labeled HDPE or with the number 2...


----------



## stej

Lacumo said:


> Stej---are all those bottlecaps you're using labeled HDPE or with the recycling triangle logo with the number 2 in it? I've been looking over the caps and tops I've been getting. Some are labeled with the triangle with the number 1 or 5 in it and some have no identification, but none are labeled HDPE or with the number 2...


That's interesting. I didn't check all the caps. But that ones I look at have either 2 in the triangle or nothing. I assume that even thought ther is nothing on it, it is from HDPE because the material behaves very similar. Now I remember that some have even PE on it. But (just my gues) that means that it should be HDPE as LDPE is too soft to be a cap.

Maybe you could post a pic of a cap with 1 or 5 in the triangle.


----------



## stej

Major Slingshots said:


> i'm speechless people, my work here is done lol. i'm bang on the next stage of my journey to set up shop
> 
> anyway, i started the thread to find a way of getting this stuff shiny, as i had tried everything i could think of, and as you lot know, even making the plastic takes a bit of trial and error even when someone is telling you how its done lol.


Yes, trial and error, we all know that 

And .. did I mention that I hate the air bubbles :banghead: ?


----------



## Mr.Teh

Very interesting to see your all experiments ! Thanks for sharing :wave:


----------



## ash

I have a new idea while making thin sheets for PFS.

Cookie cutter!

Slingshot shaped cookie cutter (die cutter), slightly larger than the final size to allow for shrinkage. You could produce a hot sheet straight off the sandwich press, lay it on a wooden board and smash out several shaped HDPE cookies. Lay them out under light pressure to cool flat and straight. The you throw the hot offcuts back in with the next batch. Saves time and material.

The cooled and pre-shaped cookies then save you time and material in final shaping and/or routing.

Thicker cookies cut from full blocks could be dropped straight into shaped moulds and placed under high pressure for a more exact final shape.


----------



## leon13

leon13 said:


> stej said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> leon13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stej said:
> 
> 
> 
> Tried to make a slab from bottle caps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-17 21.37.52.jpg
> 
> Still on the way, but the partial result is this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.33.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2013-09-18 19.38.55.jpg
> 
> I will fold it probably at least once. The tricky part is that when the bottle caps are already melted, they tend to leave wholes in the middle. So I need to press all of them (I did it with a spoon) so that the middle parts are filled. Otherwise the holes would be places when air bubbles would appear for sure.
> 
> 
> 
> that is some killer color c(z)ombi me like a lot
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That's the result from yesterday when I found a while. I'm quite curious whether it will work as a slab for a slingshot.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> i hope so its really some nice color zombie i like it a lot ;-)
Click to expand...

oh oh ! lol


----------



## leon13

ash said:


> I have a new idea while making thin sheets for PFS.
> 
> Cookie cutter!
> 
> Slingshot shaped cookie cutter (die cutter), slightly larger than the final size to allow for shrinkage. You could produce a hot sheet straight off the sandwich press, lay it on a wooden board and smash out several shaped HDPE cookies. Lay them out under light pressure to cool flat and straight. The you throw the hot offcuts back in with the next batch. Saves time and material.
> 
> The cooled and pre-shaped cookies then save you time and material in final shaping and/or routing.
> 
> Thicker cookies cut from full blocks could be dropped straight into shaped moulds and placed under high pressure for a more exact final shape.


well i have the axes to make those cutters but u have to be really fast to send those plates over !

I die cut a lot of material with my punch press so if some one really wants some forms let me know and i will produce such a " knife " and send it to U.

I wont find the time to experiment with the "melting crew" I really would love to do but self-employed bla bla etc. NO TIME @ al !!!!!

cheers


----------



## Lacumo

I should have been more specific---the tops I've been getting with the 1 or 5 on them or unlabeled were from liquid laundry detergent jugs. The jugs are all 2's but the caps are 1's, 5's and unlabeled. I don't have access to soda bottles or tops, but I've been getting a lot of laundry detergent jugs.


----------



## ash

Most of the tops of milk and soda bottles I've seen have been #2 HDPE. Some things like shampoo bottles and dietary supplement jars have #5 PP lids. I suspect that some of the unlabelled lids I've used have been #5 PP, but they seemed to melt into the HDPE anyway. They probably don't bond well leaving weak spots, so avoid mixing types just in case.

I have a bunch of #5 PP items that I started to play with today, but ran out of time. I'll melt them tomorrow and see what happens. So far they seem runnier and stickier than #2 HDPE.

If in doubt and the plastic is shiny or transparent, assume it's #5 PP. HDPE is rarely shiny or transparent.


----------



## ash

Here are yesterday's blocks. They were moulded in a porcelain dish, so the surface is quite glossy for HDPE. I found that warming up the bowl lessened the waveiness and distortion on cooling.

Black ones are mostly from big cans for dietary supplements. Whey and creatine for the gym jocks next door. Good material. they have some bathroom cleaner bottles mixed in for yellow, cream and green highlights. The odd red and yellow soda bottle lid.

The blue and green ones are mostly offcuts and rejects from the previous batches mixed with some new milk bottle stock. Re-melting seems to work better when mixed with fresh material.


----------



## SmilingFury

Has anyone tried out that polymorphic thermoplastic that has a melting temp of 62 degrees cel? It is supposed to have nylon like characteristics. It just seems more convienient for all the people who might pay a few bucks so the wife doesn't freak out over a plastic melting project in the kitchen, (Me). It melts into a clear blob and can be formed by hand , or in a mold, all with a bit of hot water.
I know this is probably sacrilege to post this on this thread but some of us are dying with envy to try our hand at the whole plastic thing.
I got a kilo of plastic pellets for less than 20 euros. I will share whatever I manage to make no matter how ugly,lol. The good thing is that this stuff can be remelted over and over like hdpe.
HEY LEON, I might be able to use a PFS cookie cutter and I would be glad to trade.
If anyne has any experience with this stuff, please share any info. Sorry if this was a mini hijack.

Be well,
SF


----------



## lexlow

hi smiley, to be honest, go for it, no it is not recycling, but that is not the be all and end all of whats going on here 

i had seen that plastic in a video and a google search while thinking weather or not to confront the wife about using the oven. as it goes, my wife understood, and let me get on with it as usual lol (love my wifey). but if it had not gone that way, the plastic your talking of would have been a contender to do what i wanted. go for it, looking forward to the results.


----------



## leon13

SmilingFury said:


> Has anyone tried out that polymorphic thermoplastic that has a melting temp of 62 degrees cel? It is supposed to have nylon like characteristics. It just seems more convienient for all the people who might pay a few bucks so the wife doesn't freak out over a plastic melting project in the kitchen, (Me). It melts into a clear blob and can be formed by hand , or in a mold, all with a bit of hot water.
> I know this is probably sacrilege to post this on this thread but some of us are dying with envy to try our hand at the whole plastic thing.
> I got a kilo of plastic pellets for less than 20 euros. I will share whatever I manage to make no matter how ugly,lol. The good thing is that this stuff can be remelted over and over like hdpe.
> HEY LEON, I might be able to use a PFS cookie cutter and I would be glad to trade.
> If anyne has any experience with this stuff, please share any info. Sorry if this was a mini hijack.
> 
> Be well,
> SF


send me the plan and i will pm u a price cheers


----------



## ash

SmilingFury said:


> Has anyone tried out that polymorphic thermoplastic that has a melting temp of 62 degrees cel?


I have some (Friendly Plastic) and recently tried it as a slingshot holder for taking photos. I think it would be easily strong enough at room temperature. You'd just have to make sure you don't leave it out in the sun or let your hand warmth soften the plastic. It should be fine as long as it doesn't get warm enough to soften.


----------



## lexlow

ah ha success (well sort of) i made a back and forth sort of guide for my blocks, so i can shave the face off the blocks to give a shine, hmm need a camera dam it,

pics of all for sale slingshots have been taken (b y my mate and his good cam) but we could not get them from the phone to the laptop as it is not compatible with xp :-( should have them later though.


----------



## SmilingFury

ash said:


> SmilingFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried out that polymorphic thermoplastic that has a melting temp of 62 degrees cel?
> 
> 
> 
> I have some (Friendly Plastic) and recently tried it as a slingshot holder for taking photos. I think it would be easily strong enough at room temperature. You'd just have to make sure you don't leave it out in the sun or let your hand warmth soften the plastic. It should be fine as long as it doesn't get warm enough to soften.
Click to expand...

It says that the melting temp is 62 celsius or about 142f. If that is true and accurate, then I should be ok. I have been saving different size tins to make different blocks for shaping. Did you need to put weight on your stuff to get it to cool properly?


----------



## ash

SmilingFury said:


> ash said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> SmilingFury said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has anyone tried out that polymorphic thermoplastic that has a melting temp of 62 degrees cel?
> 
> 
> 
> I have some (Friendly Plastic) and recently tried it as a slingshot holder for taking photos. I think it would be easily strong enough at room temperature. You'd just have to make sure you don't leave it out in the sun or let your hand warmth soften the plastic. It should be fine as long as it doesn't get warm enough to soften.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It says that the melting temp is 62 celsius or about 142f. If that is true and accurate, then I should be ok. I have been saving different size tins to make different blocks for shaping. Did you need to put weight on your stuff to get it to cool properly?
Click to expand...

Yes it will melt at 62 degrees, but it may well lose some stiffness slightly before then. I think it will be fine, the softening thing is just something to look out for on the first one you make.

I didn't weight mine, it was just a random blob holding two things together. It probably shrinks a lot just like HDPE, so weighting may be a good idea. It will be easy to shape by hand like play doh, too.


----------



## Lacumo

I've seen some mentions made of how HDPE shrinks when melted down to make a board, but nobody ever mentioned just how much it shrinks. Does anybody have a handle on (maybe roughly) how much it shrinks down? If I bake up a 3" deep pile of HDPE chips in a baking tin, do I end up with a 2" thick board or how does it work out?

In case the size/thickness/type of HDPE pieces you use makes a difference..... The HDPE chips I'll be using are all from milk jugs (very thin) and liquid laundry detergent jugs. The detergent jug chips are mostly pretty thin, but some of the pieces cut out of the bottoms of the jugs are a little bit thicker. Nonetheless, they're all pretty thin-- nothing like the robust "industrial strength" thickness of HDPE that you'd get from a 35 or 55 gallon drum or even a 5 gallon pail. My pieces are all hand-cut---with X-Acto knives, scissors and garden pruning shears, so that tells you they're not very thick. My pieces are all flat (or real close to flat) and postage stamp-size or smaller.


----------



## ash

There are different interpretations of shrinkage to consider. In proper injection moulding under high pressure it is 3-6%. That's not particularly relevant to us except to note that it is a lot more than other materials.

using the coefficient of linear expansion and the temperature difference from molten down to cold, you can expect around 30% volume drop. This is the one that matters, but it not the one you're asking about. This is why you need to press it to keep the slab or sheet flat and straight.

What you're asking about is volumetric conversion, but it's not really a good measure as every source and size of material will be different. Simple solution - weigh it.

There is mention of it earlier, but if you assume the HDPE density is the same as water, you can just fill your mould up with water to the same depth you want the plastic to be, then weigh the water, then use the same weight of plastic chips.


----------



## Beanflip




----------



## SmilingFury

Nice forks Bean! Great color combo too.


----------



## lexlow

nice colors beanflip!


----------



## Beanflip

ash said:


> Orange and purple!
> 
> Put my name in the queue for an orange and purple trade, Beano :cookie:


I've been thinking about your Orange and purple combo Ash. Unfortunately the pleasing orange on the Tide bottles exists only on the surface. Here is a test from this morning. "The Brain"


----------



## ash

Is it going to take over the world?


----------



## stej

Beanflip said:


> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379862205.146726.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379862131.499876.jpg


It's crazy enough 

It looks like most of you don't use oven, but toaster. Is that right? I think the main advantage is how easy it is to press the stuff. It's needed to do it differently in the oven.


----------



## Lacumo

Beanflip---The (off-center) center of the swirl pattern in the board in the left-hand image looks like the face of some kind of massively head-injured, mutated, smiling pumpkin from a Halloween horror flick. If you could include and center that face in a SS frame (if the face isn't too big), you might have the Halloween slingshot of the decade there...


----------



## Dr J

This material is so amazing, can you get any two exactly alike? This means that each is a unique work of original art. Fantastic ! Quite Aptly named !


----------



## 1912

Where would you guys advise me to go and pick up the biggest number of HDPE bottles?

I would love to give this a try but i don't know where to start from.

I guess by only recycling in my home it's gonna take me ages to do one.


----------



## ash

Ask your friends and neighbours to save their HDPE bottles for you.


----------



## Lacumo

I hit laundromats and grab the empty liquid laundry detergent jugs and a friend supplies me with milk jugs. Unfortunately, detergent only comes in cheery "clean clothes" type colors---light+bright reds, oranges, yellows/golds, blues and greens---no browns, grays or black and nothing dark, so I'm only getting a limited assortment of colors. I wish I could find a good source of darker colors.


----------



## lexlow

brown sauce bottles from cafes or burger vans are hdpe


----------



## Lacumo

Relative to getting HDPE (from liquid laundry detergent jugs, shampoo bottles, milk jugs, etc) cut/ground up into small pieces ready for the baking tray in the oven.... In going through this thread, I've seen references to cutting it into small pieces by hand as well as using either a shredder or a meat grinder. I've been putting in long hours cutting up little pieces by hand. My hands are getting beat up and they're starting to ache pretty badly. I need to mechanize here if I can.

What kind of shredder or meat grinder do I need and what kind of performance can I expect? I don't want to blow $$ on a cheap shredder or grinder if I'm going to ruin it after a few minutes of use. All experiences and advice appreciated...


----------



## stej

I was thinking about regular knife. It's a little bit better than scissors just because you use different fingers in different (better) position. Also for remaining pieces from other slabs maybe very rough rasp could be helpful, because hdpe is eaten by rasp very well..


----------



## G30

i put one of those hook razor blades in my knife hook facing away in a vise. and then cut long strips of bottles and held the long end with my hand took pliers in the other and pulled into the blade make butter work of it by hand.


----------



## Beanflip

Stej, how did your colorful bottle cap block come out?


----------



## stej

G30 said:


> i put one of those hook razor blades in my knife hook facing away in a vise. and then cut long strips of bottles and held the long end with my hand took pliers in the other and pulled into the blade make butter work of it by hand.


Yep, that's basically what I ment but some words were missing  Long, narrow strips..



Beanflip said:


> Stej, how did your colorful bottle cap block come out?


The block I posted here is still too thin (3 rows of bottles), so I need to fold it once again and press. Even if I didn't want to fold it, the surface is still wavy because of the shrinking.

So I need some time to arrange the stuff around.

Btw. the main problem when working with it is that some caps are quite sticky and if I use the baking paper (the caps are laying on the paper) and then want to just fold, it is stuck on the paper like a chewing gum. And the paper is tearing when I try to pull apart. Of course if I wait a while to cool the HDPE down, then it's much easier, but then I have to wait again to heat up, so the process is a little bit tedious.

Even if it will work, I'm still not sure whether I'll repeat it.. Oh, wait.. yes, I will, of course 

However, it's much easier I think to just to cut the caps and go the standard way (or use a toaster like ash did). Or maybe I'm making things too complicated and there is some much easier way.


----------



## Dayhiker

Major Slingshots,

I want to thank you for this tutorial. I like this idea so much that I went out and bought my own oven -- a turkey roaster -- for my shop.

I've made two slingshots so far and both are making me very happy. Here are some pics of my second one: a Chalice made from milk cartons and an orange Home-Depot bucked.









I love this thing (and the first one as well). Thanks again for this tutorial, it's a blast and I plan on making a lot more of these.

P.S. I forgot, there's some bits of a Tide detergent bottle in there too.


----------



## lexlow

nice one dayhiker  i can see you feel the same way i do when i make one, i love my side shooter, and have grown attached to it constantly. glad you like the tutorial. and glad your making use of it  can you show us a bit of your process please, nice to compare and learn. i making someithing tomorrow that i hope works. (think spiragraph


----------



## Beanflip

Dayhiker said:


> Major Slingshots,
> 
> I want to thank you for this tutorial. I like this idea so much that I went out and bought my own oven -- a turkey roaster -- for my shop.
> I've made two slingshots so far and both are making me very happy. Here are some pics of my second one: a Chalice made from milk cartons and an orange Home-Depot bucked.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I love this thing (and the first one as well). Thanks again for this tutorial, it's a blast and I plan on making a lot more of these.
> P.S. I forgot, there's some bits of a Tide detergent bottle in there too.


 Nice one! Glad to see you in on this Dayhiker. Yes, please share how you're process is done.

Mmmm spirograph. Waiting to see that one Major!


----------



## Dayhiker

Major Slingshots said:


> nice one dayhiker  i can see you feel the same way i do when i make one, i love my side shooter, and have grown attached to it constantly. glad you like the tutorial. and glad your making use of it  can you show us a bit of your process please, nice to compare and learn. i making someithing tomorrow that i hope works. (think spiragraph


Actually, my process to get the block was identical to yours, Major. I cut the fork out with a coping saw and finished it up with rasps, files, and sandpaper. Made the grooves for band ties with a dremel. Nothing new or fancy.


----------



## ash

I told a friend about this process and now she's sure she's going to get rich making bespoke dishwashing brushes for recycling conscious ladies of the fancy suburbs! :rofl:


----------



## Lacumo

Ash--- Be sure to tell your friend... Anything that has the word "bespoke" as part of the product description gets an automatic 35% price surcharge due to the use of the word "bespoke."

Many years ago I used to have a SxS 12ga Westley Richards sidelock. It was the only bespoke thing I ever had and I'm still kicking myself for letting it go.


----------



## stej

Beanflip said:


> Dayhiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Major Slingshots,
> 
> I want to thank you for this tutorial. I like this idea so much that I went out and bought my own oven -- a turkey roaster -- for my shop.
> I've made two slingshots so far and both are making me very happy. Here are some pics of my second one: a Chalice made from milk cartons and an orange Home-Depot bucked.
> 
> I love this thing (and the first one as well). Thanks again for this tutorial, it's a blast and I plan on making a lot more of these.
> P.S. I forgot, there's some bits of a Tide detergent bottle in there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice one! Glad to see you in on this Dayhiker. Yes, please share how you're process is done.
> 
> Mmmm spirograph. Waiting to see that one Major!
Click to expand...

Beanflip, please share how your process is done also 

It's great that this thread inspires so many people to try new things out.


----------



## lexlow

i love the way this thread plods along and then seems to rejuvenate as soon as one person does something lol. time to get the kids to school and then crack on with todays fun (sorry work) :-D


----------



## SmilingFury

Very nice slingshot DH. It reminds me of an orange creamsicle ice cream I would get as a kid from the ice cream man. Great color. Yonr skills come through no matter what the material. Enjoy your new toys!
Be well,
SF


----------



## ash

It's Tuesday night here, which means a trip up and down the street rummaging through recycling bins. Wednesday morning is time to crank up the sandwich press and make another couple of slabs.


----------



## Beanflip

stej said:


> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dayhiker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Major Slingshots,
> 
> I want to thank you for this tutorial. I like this idea so much that I went out and bought my own oven -- a turkey roaster -- for my shop.
> I've made two slingshots so far and both are making me very happy. Here are some pics of my second one: a Chalice made from milk cartons and an orange Home-Depot bucked.
> 
> I love this thing (and the first one as well). Thanks again for this tutorial, it's a blast and I plan on making a lot more of these.
> P.S. I forgot, there's some bits of a Tide detergent bottle in there too.
> 
> 
> 
> Nice one! Glad to see you in on this Dayhiker. Yes, please share how you're process is done.
> 
> Mmmm spirograph. Waiting to see that one Major!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Beanflip, please share how your process is done also
> It's great that this thread inspires so many people to try new things out.
Click to expand...

 I may try to make a short video when I get a chance.


----------



## Beanflip

This caught my eye.


----------



## Dayhiker

Beanflip said:


> This caught my eye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1380764046.274347.jpg


That's really cool, Bean. I would never make a pink slingshot, but I'd gladly make the donation and then try to find some black to go with it. "Pink and black", yeah. Elvis would've liked it. I wonder where to get some black HDPE?


----------



## lexlow

black is ok to find, but only in small amounts so far, i have some on the hinges of the hdpe bin i have just been given (1100 liter and bright pinky purple, with a bright green lid) which is the joker colors 

i spot a theme range, joker=pinky and green and a splash of white.. batman= black and grey with a splash of yellow, robin= red, green and a little yellow......? i think lol


----------



## Beanflip

Video with description of my process.


----------



## Beanflip

Black King Starboard is readily available.


----------



## suffolk beef

Hi guys I've been following this idea for a bit now saved all the milk containers I could lay my hands on and have managed to make a block about 25mm thick, but the question I have is whats the best tool to cut it out with and what to shape it with?


----------



## Dayhiker

suffolk beef said:


> Hi guys I've been following this idea for a bit now saved all the milk containers I could lay my hands on and have managed to make a block about 25mm thick, but the question I have is whats the best tool to cut it out with and what to shape it with?


Any of your woodworking saws will work fine.


----------



## Beanflip

I got some.


----------



## lexlow

hi beanflip  well i hope you dont take offence, but you have inspired me to copy you in the making of a video tutorial/guide. i have been fearing it until i saw how you presented yours. i'm sure mine will be rather less articulate and the picture more dodgy but i will give it a go. man i wish i had that much room lol.

and if anyone remembers me saying about the spirograph idea, i will mention the failed attempt in it if i can . new plastic to do tomorrow, so there is a chance the plastic will go wrong, as i'm sure you all know, some hdpe is not the same as other hdpe, gotta burn to learn ;-)


----------



## HarryBee

Just seen a guy on you tube re-cycling Hdpe shopping bags in the oven , under the name chozebastler. Could be useful if you,re struggling to find a particular colour.


Dayhiker said:


> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> This caught my eye.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1380764046.274347.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> That's really cool, Bean. I would never make a pink slingshot, but I'd gladly make the donation and then try to find some black to go with it. "Pink and black", yeah. Elvis would've liked it. I wonder where to get some black HDPE?
Click to expand...

Just seen a guy on you tube re-cycling Hdpe shopping bags in the oven , under the name chozebastler. Could be useful if you,re struggling to find a particular colour.


----------



## Black_Blade

Just wondering if you could use polypropylene, the one with the number 5 in the triangle. Reason I ask is I can get as many discarded buckets as I can handle from a bulk food store, the odd pail is out of hdpe but most of them are PP. The upside is that all the snap on lids to the PP buckets are hdpe tho!


----------



## lexlow

hi black blade,

from a little searching i found that number five on the resin chart is meltable, it is said to leach a few chemicals over its life span, but unless your going to keep it in ya butt crack or mouth for the rest of your life it would be ok lol. it it effected by the heating process, when melting it, if you go to the higher end of the melt point(i'll get to that shortly) you can make it have brittle properties when it solidifies, as opposed to near abs type strength.

on the subject of melting temp, although all pp is labeled as number five, they mix it with different types of other chems, so the melting point can vary from, 160 c up to 180 c ish .

also it is heavily damaged by uv as it gets older, and has a process of degradation that cannot be reversed and results in deep thin cracks over a period of years.

hope that was useful blade.


----------



## Black_Blade

Major Slingshots said:


> hi black blade,
> 
> from a little searching i found that number five on the resin chart is meltable, it is said to leach a few chemicals over its life span, but unless your going to keep it in ya butt crack or mouth for the rest of your life it would be ok lol. it it effected by the heating process, when melting it, if you go to the higher end of the melt point(i'll get to that shortly) you can make it have brittle properties when it solidifies, as opposed to near abs type strength.
> 
> on the subject of melting temp, although all pp is labeled as number five, they mix it with different types of other chems, so the melting point can vary from, 160 c up to 180 c ish .
> 
> also it is heavily damaged by uv as it gets older, and has a process of degradation that cannot be reversed and results in deep thin cracks over a period of years.
> 
> hope that was useful blade.


not many people be putting it into their mouths if they carry it in their butt crack eh...lmao

Well, I guess it would be worth trying it out just to see, no money out in the venture..who knows maybe would be good to use as 1/4" thick layers with layer of wood in between or something...sure can get a good supply of it thats for sure.


----------



## lexlow

give it a go, ideally, outside, keeping an eyes on it throughout the whole time its heating, start with the oven at 100c then put it to 160c, see how its looking and try to spot signs of browning. then if its not melting put it up another ten degrees c at a time, letting it heat up for ten minutes or something.

and now i have a vision of someone licking a hairy lolly pop for some reason...... i guess i started it. aaaargh!


----------



## Lacumo

Black_Blade--- It might be good to check into the health aspects of whatever gases might be given off by PP when it's subjected to different temps. Not all of the smoke/mists/fumes/vapors given off by plastics when they're heated to high temps are good for you. The two main reasons people stick with HDPE are that it's safe when you keep the temp in the advised range and that it's strong. PP doesn't have the strength of HDPE and I'm not confident that the health aspects of heating it up are totally problem-free.

Beanflip---Great video! Thanks for the effort. You got me wondering about one thing--- I was about to bake up a pan of cut-up pieces from Tide detergent jugs. You said when you did that, it failed and there were weak spots in the board you produced. Was that caused by the Tide jug material or some other factor?


----------



## Beanflip

Lacumo said:


> Black_Blade--- It might be good to check into the health aspects of whatever gases might be given off by PP when it's subjected to different temps. Not all of the smoke/mists/fumes/vapors given off by plastics when they're heated to high temps are good for you. The two main reasons people stick with HDPE are that it's safe when you keep the temp in the advised range and that it's strong. PP doesn't have the strength of HDPE and I'm not confident that the health aspects of heating it up are totally problem-free.
> 
> Beanflip---Great video! Thanks for the effort. You got me wondering about one thing--- I was about to bake up a pan of cut-up pieces from Tide detergent jugs. You said when you did that, it failed and there were weak spots in the board you produced. Was that caused by the Tide jug material or some other factor?


 I'm not sure what happened. I'll take another look at it.


----------



## stej

I found that black HDPE is used somewhere where houses are built. Maybe it depends on your country, but the sealing material that is put between the house walls and outer ground is made from HDPE. Look at the picture, maye it may be familiar to you http://www.nopova-folie.cz/


----------



## lexlow

didnt look at the pic, as you are completely right, i stumbled upon the fact that much stuff in the building trade is hdpe, i was calling different manufacturers in my town and one was very helpful but had no waste products. prob a good thing (another)to gaze at skips for :-D like i neeed another excuse lol i a terrible, but as a matter of principle i wont take from anywhere unless i have asked.some people get funny otherwise, not to mention its probably against the law as the stuff in it at the very least belongs to the skip company.


----------



## Beanflip

Lacumo, I took a look at the failed slab/ sling. I think the spots that did not bond were over heated surfaces from the toaster oven. They are basically burnt.


----------



## Beanflip

Started up the toaster oven this morning. The pink HDPE bucket seems to have a lower melting temp. ? Or maybe it's melting at a different rate because I started with a much smaller amount/mass.


----------



## Beanflip




----------



## Lacumo

Beanflip---Thanks for checking that out for me--I appreciate your effort. I have a gallon-size ziploc bag of cut-up pieces of Tide HDPE jugs but I didn't want to bother cooking it up if the HDPE Tide uses is inferior. Now I know I can go ahead as long as I'm careful of the temperature/burning aspect.

The plastic from that pink bucket certainly is pink, too! I think your pix are giving me flashbacks to those "psychedelic" Day-Glo colors of the 60's and 70's...


----------



## Beanflip

Lacumo said:


> Beanflip---Thanks for checking that out for me--I appreciate your effort. I have a gallon-size ziploc bag of cut-up pieces of Tide HDPE jugs but I didn't want to bother cooking it up if the HDPE Tide uses is inferior. Now I know I can go ahead as long as I'm careful of the temperature/burning aspect.
> 
> The plastic from that pink bucket certainly is pink, too! I think your pix are giving me flashbacks to those "psychedelic" Day-Glo colors of the 60's and 70's...


 My only other thought, maybe I didn't get all the soap off. ? 
Give it a try. We learn from fails also.


----------



## Imperial

to clean up the plastic before the oven process, have any of you guys considered boiling it in a pot of water first ? i know that may help in getting labels off. steaming is another method for label removal.


----------



## Beanflip

Imperial said:


> to clean up the plastic before the oven process, have any of you guys considered boiling it in a pot of water first ? i know that may help in getting labels off. steaming is another method for label removal.


 I don't bother using anything that has a label. I tried removing some at first. Some are water soluble and therefore not difficult to remove. Others are remarkably difficult. But I have not tried all the methods for removal. It's just easy to cut around and leave them out. Not much material lost.


----------



## Lacumo

^^ +1.

I wore myself out trying to get the labels off of laundry detergent jugs. Soaked the labels in soapy water for days, scalded them, boiled them, microwaved them in boiling water, etc and had zero success with 95% of them. In the end, I just developed better sources for raw material. Now I get as many jugs every week as I have time to cut up, so I just cut out the labeled areas and throw them away.


----------



## ash

My best trick for label removal has been to cut the bottles in half and lay the label part aginst the oven or sandwich press as it warms up. A warm, dry label strips off a lot easier than a cool or especially damp one. Steaming gives the warmth, but it weakens the paper so much that it just falls apart, leaving the sticky goop behind.


----------



## Black_Blade

I picked up a can of stuff called Goof Off, last year to take the decals off of a company vehicle. Works real slick on any kind of labelling or stickers. I remove all kinds of labels in just seconds. It breaks down the glue and you just can scrape off with thrumbnal and then final wipe with cloth damped in the stuff.


----------



## Lacumo

Goo Gone Adhesive Remover -- like this --






-- works quite well, also. It takes them all off.

It costs $6 for an 8oz bottle in my area. I'm trying to keep the costs of this project down, so that additional cost doesn't help.

That's why I just cut out and discard the label areas of the containers. No extra cost or extra steps added into the process.


----------



## lexlow

hi all, sorry about the lack of input over the last week, been busy. Lol.

ok, hi beanflip again, the stuff you have there is the same as my new stuff and still melts at the same temp, but turns to a cleaner more liquid plastic. It is definitely as strong as the other stuff.

as for quick easy label removal i just rip off what i can then use white spirits, old school but it sorts it easy , no need for fancy stuff


----------



## Lacumo

Quick question for the HDPE guys... I know "swirled" multi-color frames have been done, but I don't know if anybody's experimented with trying to produce a striped multi-color board.

If I make a few different HDPE boards in different colors... then cut them into pieces... then arrange the pieces in a mold (in the rough, oversized shape of the frame I intend to make)... then re-bake the new (multi-color, striped) board and put it in a press after it re-liquifies... will the different pieces fuse together effectively into a solid new board?


----------



## Mr.Teh

Great idea Lacumo, i had the idea too but with gramulate ( size of lentils or finer ) ,

but your idea sounds better, good succeed :thumbsup:


----------



## stej

Lacumo said:


> Quick question for the HDPE guys... I know "swirled" multi-color frames have been done, but I don't know if anybody's experimented with trying to produce a striped multi-color board.
> 
> If I make a few different HDPE boards in different colors... then cut them into pieces... then arrange the pieces in a mold (in the rough, oversized shape of the frame I intend to make)... then re-bake the new (multi-color, striped) board and put it in a press after it re-liquifies... will the different pieces fuse together effectively into a solid new board?


I think it might work.

The only thing to keep in mind is that after you take the HDPE from the oven, it starts to cool down. HDPE that is too cool doesn't fuse well. That's why I found some places in my HDPE slabs that were apparently two different pieces that were not fused together.

Good luck and remember to take pics during the process


----------



## Lacumo

Stej---This isn't easy for me to describe...

What I hope to do is place the different color pieces right next to each other in a mold and then re-bake and re-melt them -- hopefully so they fuse together into one combined, solid new piece--while in the form while baking in the oven. The mold would be made so all I need to do when I take it out of the oven is apply a press on top to squeeze and pressure the HDPE downward--and let it cool down and harden up while under pressure in the baking form/mold which also doubles as the press form.

The pieces I want to fuse together will be right next to each other in the oven through the entire rebaking/remelting process and will stay there during the cooling/pressure-molding phase also.

I think the theory sounds good. Now I have to see how it works out in the real world.


----------



## flipgun

Lacumo said:


> Quick question for the HDPE guys... I know "swirled" multi-color frames have been done, but I don't know if anybody's experimented with trying to produce a striped multi-color board.
> 
> If I make a few different HDPE boards in different colors... then cut them into pieces... then arrange the pieces in a mold (in the rough, oversized shape of the frame I intend to make)... then re-bake the new (multi-color, striped) board and put it in a press after it re-liquifies... will the different pieces fuse together effectively into a solid new board?


I think that is what Beanflip did on page 14.


----------



## stej

flipgun said:


> Lacumo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Quick question for the HDPE guys... I know "swirled" multi-color frames have been done, but I don't know if anybody's experimented with ..............
> 
> will the different pieces fuse together effectively into a solid new board?
> 
> 
> 
> I think that is what Beanflip did on page 14.
Click to expand...

Yep, you are right.

Lacumo, I think, you described it very well. Fingers crossed. There is almost nothing that might fail, so I expect you will come up with a nice slab


----------



## lexlow

new slab mold creating tomorrow, the old way is just to slow to keep up with everything else that's needed to start the business dam it. It failed a few times and has produced bad slabs to consistantly. I will post pic tomorrow night as i hope (fingers crossed) i may have cracked it


----------



## Lacumo

One more hopefully quick+easy HDPE beginner's question&#8230;

After you bake up some HDPE slabs (which I'm getting close to doing)... As long as you don't run the oven temp too hot and go singeing or burning the HDPE and causing smoke or fumes or anything like that-- Does your oven come out of the use clean and stink-free so it's ready to go and OK to cook food in again? Or--once you start doing HDPE baking, is the oven that you used stuck with some kind of residual chemical stink and kind of condemned to a life of HDPE-only use after that?


----------



## Beanflip

I am using a toaster oven. Honestly I didn't know if the smell stuck in the oven or not. So while I was out sanding and testing buffers on some HDPE I gave the oven the smell test. Cold first then I heated it a little. Doesn't seem to hold the odor. I don't think I'll ever chance it in the house oven though. Good luck bud.


----------



## ash

Under normal circumstances, there is no residual stink. My HDPE ones smell more like the products the bottle once held than the plastic. One smelled like the cheese residue on the sandwich press.


----------



## lexlow

well i usually make sure i have finished any blocks by four o'clock and the start cooking about five lol. As far as we can tell it is fine i been doing that for a while now :-D


----------



## Lacumo

Another good score @ the local Goodwill today. This thing is an electric countertop oven type thing. It's 2x or 3x the size of a toaster oven, 1/4

the size of a real oven and it'll easily fit an 8"x8" or 8"x14" baking dish. Cost me $15. Now I can keep my real oven for cooking only. Also picked

up a little oven thermometer so I can check the temp accuracy of the dial on this thing. Not that I doubt the dial on my $15 Special or anything...


----------



## flipgun

Now that I think of it, that is what Dayhiker used to melt his in. I have 2 of those. Guess I'd best get to scrounging.


----------



## GrayWolf

Hey everyone...love this thread. I've started saving my HDPE like everyone else, I have been looking into ovens and sandwich makers (still not sure which way I want to go) but I have a couple of questions that never really got answered.

1. I have a lot of plastic pop bottle tops, and none of them have any recycle marks anywhere...are they ok to use?

2. How is everyone getting the seal out of these tops? Will the come out easier after a little heat? I've tried digging them out and they are in there much better than they were years ago.

Any and all advice on the tops you suggestions and opinions on the oven vs. sandwich maker would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Todd


----------



## ash

Sandwich maker is much easier for slabs 1/2" thick and less. They just about make themselves. I think it's better than an oven for thicker slabs, too, but others seem to be doing just fine with ovens and trays.

Pop bottle tops that I've seen have all been #2 HDPE. I haven't seen the ones with an added seal for a while, but I know that it's easy enough to dig them out with the point of a knife. Or you can cut the lid in half and slide the seal out sideways.


----------



## GrayWolf

Thanks Ash. I've been looking at both styles for melting the plastic, and I'm leaning towards the sandwich maker because I can leave it pressed and let it cool with out having to build another press.

The 2 caps I have in front of me have the rubbery seals as do most I've seen for years. I've been digging on them with different tools for over a half hour and I'm only half way done with one. :iono: . I'm not sure what they use for glue, but I want some for installing tips on pool cues...this stuff stays on. I may just cut them up and use what I can...like I said...I go though a lot of them.

Thanks again for the input.

Todd


----------



## stej

As for seal on bottle caps.. I don't know exactly what you mean. All bottle caps here are just from plastics, mainly from HDPE. I tried to melt them in oven and it smelled like burning plastics a little bit. Not too much, but it was clear, that maybe some of them are not from HDPE or have something inside that makes the nice color (but smells).

So back to previous question - does it smell? Like ash said, it smells much more like the food/gel/whatever what was inside than like plastics. To be concrete - most of my attempts smelled like shampoo which was quite pleasant  The only problem was with bottle caps like I said.

Maybe bottles for car oil might be a problem, I can't imagine that I smell burning oil from my wife's oven


----------



## lexlow

i personally found the desk top oven/slow cooker very tricky, kept getting slight burning, and the top of the plastic did not melt! Tried a few more times, but it did not seem to work :-(

also, as there was a little since it produced plastic smell, as there is a tiny hole to allow steam from cooking food to escape. Maybe the others don't? But mine did and i think after all the messing, i would only suggest an oven with a temp based dial, as the oven heats the environment inside not just the material touching the heat plate.

hope i have not pooh poohed anyones hope. I will try and get my laptop fired up and show the new mould press I'm using now. Pc has been sick so have not been able to post picks for a few weeks, ( feels like months).


----------



## stej

Just a note to HDPE finish. I had success with sandblasted PA6. So I let sandblast also several HDPE slingshots and tell them to "try more types of material to sandblast". Probably only two were used - first little steel balls and then glass balls. The result is total fail, so I don't recommend it unless somebody tries other material (probably something much softer than steel/glass).

Partially sanded off:


----------



## suffolk beef

Hi does anybody know if sanding your hdpe slingshot/catty down then using a heat gun/ paint stripper gun give a better finish? Thanks


----------



## stej

suffolk beef said:


> Hi does anybody know if sanding your hdpe slingshot/catty down then using a heat gun/ paint stripper gun give a better finish? Thanks


Yes, that's the way to go. I don't have heat gun, that's why I experimented..


----------



## Beanflip

Check it out. Thanks to this thread as well.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27508-fused-hdpe-forward-grip/


----------



## stej

Beanflip said:


> Check it out. Thanks to this thread as well.
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27508-fused-hdpe-forward-grip/


Just curious - how did you clamped these two irregular pieces together?


----------



## Dayhiker

I'm not much of a reader, but this thread is crazy good and progressive. Can somebody edit and turn this into a pdf? What a resource!


----------



## Beanflip

stej said:


> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Check it out. Thanks to this thread as well.
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27508-fused-hdpe-forward-grip/
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious - how did you clamped these two irregular pieces together?
Click to expand...

I put them between two pieces of wood and clamped them in my work mate the first time. Now I put them in my jack/press rig that I posted a pic of some time back.


----------



## Lacumo

Beanflip-- 1--Any idea how much pressure you've got the cooling HDPE board under when it's in your jack/press?

2--In your video, you used baking pan liner parchment when melting HDPE in the toaster-oven. Do you use it or anything else inside the jack/press so the HDPE doesn't stick to the press?


----------



## Beanflip

Lacumo said:


> Beanflip-- 1--Any idea how much pressure you've got the cooling HDPE board under when it's in your jack/press?
> 
> 2--In your video, you used baking pan liner parchment when melting HDPE in the toaster-oven. Do you use it or anything else inside the jack/press so the HDPE doesn't stick to the press?


1- no idea how much pressure. You just want to make sure it's getting fused well and is allowed to cool under pressure to prevent any change in shape while cooling.

2- I use some salvaged shower wall panel. The HDPE doesn't stick to it. Sorry, but I don't know what the surface is made of.


----------



## Beanflip

Another popular question is how to finish HDPE. Honestly I am still trying to find the best way. I use a router and files to do most of the shaping. The files leave a lot of small surface grooves. Sand paper works alright, but it does not give a shiny smooth finish. Today I have found that burnishing with the rounded edge of a screw driver works pretty nicely. At least on pronounced edges. A shiny smooth finish is appealing to the majority. I am not super concerned with finish for my own slings. But for trades I try harder.


----------



## stej

Beanflip said:


> Another popular question is how to finish HDPE. Honestly I am still trying to find the best way. I use a router and files to do most of the shaping. The files leave a lot of small surface grooves. Sand paper works alright, but it does not give a shiny smooth finish. Today I have found that burnishing with the rounded edge of a screw driver works pretty nicely. At least on pronounced edges. A shiny smooth finish is appealing to the majority. I am not super concerned with finish for my own slings. But for trades I try harder.


I was thinking about the same - put the screwdriver into the oven (or stove) and polish the slingshot with the hot screwdriver.


----------



## ash

stej said:


> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another popular question is how to finish HDPE. Honestly I am still trying to find the best way. I use a router and files to do most of the shaping. The files leave a lot of small surface grooves. Sand paper works alright, but it does not give a shiny smooth finish. Today I have found that burnishing with the rounded edge of a screw driver works pretty nicely. At least on pronounced edges. A shiny smooth finish is appealing to the majority. I am not super concerned with finish for my own slings. But for trades I try harder.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking about the same - put the screwdriver into the oven (or stove) and polish the slingshot with the hot screwdriver.
Click to expand...

I've tried this and it sort of works, but isn't very tidy or consistent.

Scraping with a sharp razor blade is better.


----------



## Metropolicity

Beanflip said:


> Another popular question is how to finish HDPE. Honestly I am still trying to find the best way. I use a router and files to do most of the shaping. The files leave a lot of small surface grooves. Sand paper works alright, but it does not give a shiny smooth finish. Today I have found that burnishing with the rounded edge of a screw driver works pretty nicely. At least on pronounced edges. A shiny smooth finish is appealing to the majority. I am not super concerned with finish for my own slings. But for trades I try harder.





stej said:


> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> Another popular question is how to finish HDPE. Honestly I am still trying to find the best way. I use a router and files to do most of the shaping. The files leave a lot of small surface grooves. Sand paper works alright, but it does not give a shiny smooth finish. Today I have found that burnishing with the rounded edge of a screw driver works pretty nicely. At least on pronounced edges. A shiny smooth finish is appealing to the majority. I am not super concerned with finish for my own slings. But for trades I try harder.
> 
> 
> 
> I was thinking about the same - put the screwdriver into the oven (or stove) and polish the slingshot with the hot screwdriver.
Click to expand...

I think a high grit sanding mop on a drill press or something would take off most of the little bits. I've also used a light blow torch flame kiss for HDPE with varying results.


----------



## Old Salt

Ok questions? Toxicity of fumes and possible build up in ovens> Any answers?


----------



## lexlow

hi ya old salt,

i have got used to the correct temp for my oven, also the area best for heating, so it does not get singed. I have mine on 185 deg, and get no smell, (just a sort of sent of heat from the oven being on for an hour or more). I use a normal oven and place in the center after pre heating. I use an old tray underneath in case as happens sometimes, the plastic falls against the side of the bowl and melts its way down the side. I have been doing this a small while though, so do your own chem research also. I only ever came up with answers saying it does not produce bad vapours or gasses at melt temp, which is often stated as between 180 and 210 as a safe heating guide....... Don't go over 200 though, is my advice, as although safe, i think you get a smell and also brown patches.

hope that helps


----------



## Old Salt

Have you tried wet sand paper or burnishing with a soldering iron?


----------



## stej

Lacumo summarized my experience with HDPE very well. Worth reading http://slingshotforum.com/topic/28884-what-do-i-use-to-color-hdpe/?p=382367


----------



## parnell

I have played with melting hpde a few times now. I made a press and found that the wood wasn't smooth enough so I added some sheet metal to remedy the problem. Here are my latest results:









I will see if there are any voids when I cut into it.


----------



## Lacumo

Try using baking parchment paper from the supermarket. The HDPE doesn't stick to it at all and you can re-use one single piece repeatedly.


----------



## parnell

Lacumo said:


> Try using baking parchment paper from the supermarket. The HDPE doesn't stick to it at all and you can re-use one single piece repeatedly.


Lacumo
Thank you for the suggestion, my mold is good with the sheet metal. I will have to use the parchment paper in the melting pan. The black was very soft and sticky.


----------



## Lacumo

I found that a baking pan with a non-stick coated surface works well, too. I use the baking pan as my mold, put a parchment-covered wood block on top of the HDPE and then >300 lbs of weight on top of the wood block. That's given me the best results I've had yet, but I suspect the pressure generated by a "real" press like the ones Beanflip and others have made out of bottle jacks is how you get the best results of all.


----------



## loneronin

i have several meters of this corrugated cable pipe. someone told me it is made of HDPE (outside - red) and LDPE (inside - black). others said it is simply HDPE. what do you think? could it be ok to melt all toghether or the risk to contaminate the HDPE is too high? I would like to make a Patriot!


----------



## lexlow

hmmm, i say go for it, have often wondered what would happen in an hdpe ldpe mix. Ldpe is only different in its weight and is more resistance from a hit, it is softer and has a more waxy feel. Go for it and let us know how it goes, maybe a few pics plz plz


----------



## B.P.R

loneronin said:


> i have several meters of this corrugated cable pipe. someone told me it is made of HDPE (outside - red) and LDPE (inside - black). others said it is simply HDPE. what do you think? could it be ok to melt all toghether or the risk to contaminate the HDPE is too high? I would like to make a Patriot!


I think you should use a LITTLE bit of it for a slingshot...

And make a ferret run out of the rest  ...


----------



## lexlow

lol, that looks fun, i wanna go!


----------



## loneronin

i started shredding 50cm of the red pipe. really boring!!!


----------



## loneronin

to make a patriot I will need a 20x15x2 cm (7.8x6x0.8 inch) board. the density of the HDPE is 0.941 gr/cm3.

the board will have a volume equal to 600 cm3

so I need to collect more or less 600 cm3 / 0.941 gr/cm3 = 638 gr of HDPE.

I will go for *650 gr* to be on the safe side


----------



## stej

loneronin said:


> i have several meters of this corrugated cable pipe. someone told me it is made of HDPE (outside - red) and LDPE (inside - black). others said it is simply HDPE. what do you think? could it be ok to melt all toghether or the risk to contaminate the HDPE is too high? I would like to make a Patriot!


Are you really sure, that the red part is HDPE?

I'm asking because I had such a pipe laying on the ground for about 1 year and some months. Then I decided to get rid of it and I started cutting it. I was quite surprised that the red wavy part was very brittle and when I tried to cut it with knife, it was more about breaking than cutting. It's true mainly for parts that were under the sun all the time, the bottom part wasn't so bad.

As I know that HDPE doesn't break the same way as I saw it (and I thought it's more durable), that's what makes me unsure whether it is really HDPE..


----------



## loneronin

stej said:


> loneronin said:
> 
> 
> 
> i have several meters of this corrugated cable pipe. someone told me it is made of HDPE (outside - red) and LDPE (inside - black). others said it is simply HDPE. what do you think? could it be ok to melt all toghether or the risk to contaminate the HDPE is too high? I would like to make a Patriot!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you really sure, that the red part is HDPE?
> 
> I'm asking because I had such a pipe laying on the ground for about 1 year and some months. Then I decided to get rid of it and I started cutting it. I was quite surprised that the red wavy part was very brittle and when I tried to cut it with knife, it was more about breaking than cutting. It's true mainly for parts that were under the sun all the time, the bottom part wasn't so bad.
> 
> As I know that HDPE doesn't break the same way as I saw it (and I thought it's more durable), that's what makes me unsure whether it is really HDPE..
Click to expand...

... so they say...

http://www.pestan.net/pdf/pestan-cable-protection-pipes.pdf

http://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/HDPE-Corrugated-Double-Wall-Cable-Protection_106382041.html

http://www.binaplast.com/catalog/hdpe-double-wall-corrugated-pipes

mine is not so brittle. the sun can be the guilty


----------



## NaturalFork

Just read through this entire thread. Pretty cool stuff!


----------



## One Shot-Corey

has anyone tryed cooking hdpe in a Pyrex cake pan at all


----------



## ash

Not the cooking part, as I use a sandwich press, but I have done the pressing part in a square ceramic cake pan with a wooden board to press it in. Works very well.

Today I did a couple of blocks with no mould at all. I had the kitchen sink half full of water and dropped the hot blob in there and pressed it with a piece of plywood. I turned it over every 30 seconds or so until it was rigid enough to leave floating in the water to cool down. It worked almost as well as pressing into a mould, but much faster and easier. The surface will need to be flattened, but I do that anyway.


----------



## One Shot-Corey

guess the wife has a new cooking pan lol ill have to go out on the weekend and get a mettle pan to try and i might have to cut my hdpe smaller mines about 1 inch square and nothing melted i had it in the oven at 190 for a hr then 200 for 30 mins and nothing melted


----------



## parnell

One Shot-Corey said:


> guess the wife has a new cooking pan lol ill have to go out on the weekend and get a mettle pan to try and i might have to cut my hdpe smaller mines about 1 inch square and nothing melted i had it in the oven at 190 for a hr then 200 for 30 mins and nothing melted


Fahrenheit or Celsius? You want to be at 350-375 Fahrenheit.


----------



## One Shot-Corey

lol that might be a good part of my problem im in f i thought everyone was posting there temps in f so i guess ill be retrying it tomorrow


----------



## parnell

You should have good results tomorrow. Will be waiting to hear your results.


----------



## S.S. sLinGeR

Sound like your having fun and that's all that matters.  you will be making a fine hdpe shooter soon.


----------



## One Shot-Corey

tks ill let u guys know how it goes btw should i cuy my hdpe smaller then 1 inch or should that be good enough


----------



## parnell

What are you using for your source. I have found that for milk jugs 1 inch or smaller is better. For anything with color in it can be bigger. I have melted black and pink with 2 inch pieces. Air bubbles will actually raise out of colored hpde if you keep it in for about 2 hours.


----------



## lexlow

yes Parnell, the air pretty much clears itself after a few hours plodding along at 180. At about an hour, i usually either cross cross a knife through it or stab it all over with a fork. Then leave it in for the rest of the time. Both methods don't leave marks as it settles and joins itself. Make sure you always give your plastic a dam hot wash with a little washing liquid, and rinse the soap off, this makes sure you get no black marks from materials burning that might still be there.


----------



## One Shot-Corey

Im using oxy clean washing detergent thete blue bottles


----------



## Lacumo

parnell said:


> Air bubbles will actually raise out of colored hpde if you keep it in for about 2 hours.


Now that's interesting! I've been working with colored HDPE, wrestling with the air pocket demon and so far I haven't been able to defeat those dam bubbles. I'm going to try this out and see how it goes.


----------



## loneronin

some useful technical info about HDPE can be found here


----------



## 1912

Hello mates, i have in project to do a spanish style hdpe slingshot. But i have a previous doubt, my mother have collected for me this white caps from the milk she buys.

The one thousand dollar question is... is this really HDPE? (There is not any







signal under the caps.)


----------



## Lacumo

If the cap isn't labeled HDPE and it doesn't have that







symbol, I don't think you can be sure what it is. It may be low density PE (or something else) instead of HDPE. LDPE isn't as strong as HDPE.


----------



## 1912

Lacumo said:


> If the cap isn't labeled HDPE and it doesn't have that
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> symbol, I don't think you can be sure what it is. It may be low density PE (or something else) instead of HDPE. LDPE isn't as strong as HDPE.


Thank you very much. It's better to throw them all away. Could be a big problem if it's not HDPE and i mix them between my hdpe bucket.


----------



## loneronin

and what's this??? HDPE or LDPE? it is a bag containing a monitor


----------



## lexlow

nice one lone, never seen that before, as far as i know, that is an error. Not much else it can be really


----------



## Individual

4 is usually LDPE.

I dont think HDPE could be that flexible or easy to make a bag from


----------



## Lacumo

That is an interesting one, but I think lexlow is right---it has to be an error. HDPE (2) is high density and LDPE (4) is low density. The bag is probably LDPE.


----------



## parnell

A lot of plastic grocery bags are hdpe.


----------



## loneronin

...also the cereals bag into the cardboard box is HDPE.

anyway I'll put it in the trash.


----------



## libel

gaboxolo said:


> Thank you very much. It's better to throw them all away. Could be a big problem if it's not HDPE and i mix them between my hdpe bucket.


Don't throw them away.Those caps are made of HDPE. Tetrapak made a big fuss about using HDPE from renewable sources last year. Soak them in hot water for a while and rinse them otherwise you'll get a nice burnt milk smell in the house.

If you want to test it try melting it at 120 C. LD will melt HD will not. Those are 100% HD however.


----------



## lexlow

nice info libel.


----------



## IanW

I have been reading this thread with interest. I have been cutting up milk bottles into small pieces and now am nearly ready to have a go at making a sheet of hdpe.

My idea is to put a quantity of hdpe cuttings in a cake pan lined with baking paper. Heat in the oven until it melts into a blob and then remove from the oven and clamp a board on top of the blob (using another sheet of baking paper to stop it sticking) to make it as flat as possible. So the cake pan will act as a mould. I noted the recommended temperatures and got some hints on how to get rid of the air bubbles.

Anybody know if this will / won't work?


----------



## Lacumo

You're on the right track but doing it is the only way you'll work the bugs out and refine your method. A couple thoughts... There'll be fewer air pockets If you keep the HDPE in the oven for a longer rather than shorter time and be sure to get the HDPE under a lot of pressure immediately after you take it out of the oven. Good luck with it.


----------



## 1912

libel said:


> gaboxolo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you very much. It's better to throw them all away. Could be a big problem if it's not HDPE and i mix them between my hdpe bucket.
> 
> 
> 
> Don't throw them away.Those caps are made of HDPE. Tetrapak made a big fuss about using HDPE from renewable sources last year. Soak them in hot water for a while and rinse them otherwise you'll get a nice burnt milk smell in the house.
> 
> If you want to test it try melting it at 120 C. LD will melt HD will not. Those are 100% HD however.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much for the information. I have a bag full of that caps, thousands of caps. In fact, i was going to throw them all away tomorrow.


----------



## IanW

Thanks Lacumo. You are right, the only way to work it out is to do it. Just wanted to make sure that there were no glaring errors in my plan. I'll let everyone know how it goes.


----------



## 1912

I come back to have the same problem. My neighbour came to my house to give me some bags full of water jugs caps. What's the problem? Some of them doesn't have any HDPE signal, or some (2), others, only have a "B" triangle, and i don't know if that does mean HDPE.

Please, i need help with that. Thank you very much.


----------



## libel

Put one of each in the oven at 140c and see what happens to them compared to the white one.


----------



## parnell

gaboxolo said:


> I come back to have the same problem. My neighbour came to my house to give me some bags full of water jugs caps. What's the problem? Some of them doesn't have any HDPE signal, or some (2), others, only have a "B" triangle, and i don't know if that does mean HDPE.
> 
> Please, i need help with that. Thank you very much.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My caps I have been saving have the 2 in a triangle and the b in another triangle. After doing a Google search I can't find anything for the b. Good luck.


----------



## flipgun

I went looking too. As nearly as I can figure, it is class 2 but done as an alphabet sequence. I guess you will have to sort some out and try cooking them.


----------



## Dr J

Imagination and creativity will always make things happen. Looking forward to the next edition of this method.


----------



## Rathunter

well, I could turn it into a PDF.

Does HDPE stick to wood?

Does it stick to particle board?

i have roughly 3 pounds of chips in various colors.

Does the HDPE stick to the metal bowl?


----------



## 1912

Rathunter said:


> *well, I could turn it into a PDF.*
> 
> Does HDPE stick to wood?
> 
> Does it stick to particle board?
> 
> i have roughly 3 pounds of chips in various colors.
> 
> Does the HDPE stick to the metal bowl?


What PDF are you talking about?


----------



## IanW

Ok, so I tried cooking some old milk bottles I cut up. Some success and some failure.

I melted the pieces in a cake pan lined with baking paper, then used a piece of mdf under the pan and another inside to compress the plastic using 2 clamps. I lined this with paper too. I got a square of plastic, but the paper stuck to the plastic unfortunately. It also squeezed out around the edges as you can see in the photo and left a wrinkly finish on the surface of the plastic. I shall get 2 or more pfs frames from it.

I now have 2 silicone pans to try moulding some more. I hope I won't need to use any paper and a smoother result should be easier to get.


----------



## lexlow

i have not tried silicone containers yet hmmm. But as for your wrinkly surface, that is the outside forming a skin and then reducing in size before the middle.

easy ish fix, you need to whack the same set up you have from the oven somewhere you can either press, or apply heavy weights throughout the cooling period. This will result in a much more regular surface to work with. No advice from me on the b class plastic though, not a Scooby mate. But it does look like its oozed like hdpe would. Try and reduce the gaps, good luck


----------



## Rathunter

Someone asked on a page(I forget which) about making this tutorial into a PDF.


----------



## IanW

Thanks Lexlow. I kept the clamps on throughout the cooling process, but one side is definitely more wrinkled than the other. I think that would have been the paper wrinkled. I am hoping the silicone containers will be able to be peeled away without the use of paper and will make the surface a little smoother. We'll see!


----------



## lexlow

aww shame it did not work properly dam it. I only recently started using baking paper, and it seems to work fine, for me. This leads me to think either the paper is the wrong sort, or the plastic, sorry to put another spanner in the works so to speak. You are not doing anything wrong as far as i can tell though. When you use baking paper in a cake tray like that, then cover and press, you will/i always get little folds that get caught in the plastic, and i remove parts of the edges with this to faf around with another time. This leaves the rest of the block easy to plan out.

sooo, try a different baking paper, the stuff i use is the cheapest from a pound store, or local rip off shop /corner shop.if you have only had the sticky to paper issue using the unknown plastic then try changing that first, coz even with some paper getting stuck in the edgees, the paper is still not actually stuck.


----------



## Lacumo

In the course of my multiple failed attempts, I found that using non-stick coated baking pans enables a quick, perfect release of the cooled HDPE board and the type of paper I use on the wood block I put the weight on top of is the "baker's parchment" paper from the baking supplies area in the supermarket. The HDPE doesn't stick to that at all. When using >400 lbs of pressure, I get a pretty smooth bottoms and sides on the HDPE board but the top is still a bit on the rough/wrinkled side. Haven't found a way around that problem yet. My guess is the only fix for that is rasping-filing-sanding the surface smooth when making the SS frame out of the board.


----------



## IanW

Thanks guys. Looking forward to trying again. All good tips!


----------



## stej

I used baking paper as well. It worked pretty good - HDPE didn't stick to it when it was already cooled down. However when I used bottle caps and baking paper and I needed to split the paper and caps asap (so that the HDPE doesn't loose its temperature), ithe result was horrible. I suspect that some bottle caps (depending maybe on color) stick to it pretty well and some not. Already cold bottle caps are no problem.


----------



## Individual

People have said that the more colors added or used is more chemicals, and different properties.

Just white/clear works the best from what i've heard.


----------



## IanW

Well, the silicone pans worked quite well. They bulge a little at the sides when clamping the two together. This means the plastic oozes out the sides a little, but still leaves a useful sheet to work with.


----------



## Lacumo

How did it work out regarding smoothness/roughness of the top surface of the board you produced?


----------



## IanW

It was quite smooth. I cut the plastic slightly bigger this time and you can definitely tell in the surface. Still, it is definitely usable.
I was thinking of making a silicone mould in the shape of my design to make a blank and give them away to people. I think it could be made stiff enough to retain its shape, but flexible to peel away from the cooled plastic.


----------



## noah013

I read this thread, and noticed you guys missed some very important videos. It is definitly worth to check it out, made by The Art Of Weapons.

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiBJ_D3_ZSgL93ijyv2yRhYoD6pARS6gA

Greetings, Noah013


----------



## Lacumo

AoW usually posts everything he does here as well as other places (one of which is YouTube).

Here's a link to his posts and threads here...

http://slingshotforum.com/index.php?app=core&module=search&do=user_activity&mid=6950


----------



## TSM

I hope this is the place to post this. I need some math help and just want to make sure I don't overfill this thing. So, my form that I'm going to cook the HDPE in is 5" wide x 7" long x 7/8" (.875") deep. That comes to an area of 30.625in3. The average density of HDPE is @.95g/cm3. Google converter tells me that .95g/cm3 = .5491oz/in3. 30.625 * .5491 = 16.8162. So that should be nearly 17oz to fill the form completely. Did I get that right?


----------



## 1912

TSM said:


> I hope this is the place to post this. I need some math help and just want to make sure I don't overfill this thing. So, my form that I'm going to cook the HDPE in is 5" wide x 7" long x 7/8" (.875") deep. That comes to an area of 30.625in3. The average density of HDPE is @.95g/cm3. Google converter tells me that .95g/cm3 = .5491oz/in3. 30.625 * .5491 = 16.8162. So that should be nearly 17oz to fill the form completely. Did I get that right?


Completely right


----------



## TSM

Alright, here's another one for you. The form I constructed is made of 3/4" SPF plywood and pine. To keep from having to move the HDPE from melting container to the form, can I just put the plastic in the form and directly in the oven for a couple of hours or will the whole thing catch fire and burn my house down?


----------



## 1912

TSM said:


> Alright, here's another one for you. The form I constructed is made of 3/4" SPF plywood and pine. To keep from having to move the HDPE from melting container to the form, can I just put the plastic in the form and directly in the oven for a couple of hours or will the whole thing catch fire and burn my house down?


If i were you, i'd not try that way.


----------



## TSM

Yeah...that's what I was afraid of. Thanks


----------



## Rathunter

well, the wood won't ignite- most woods don't ignite until over 300 degrees.

However, it may be darn impossible to keep molten polyethylene from dripping everywhere, and it probably won't melt too evenly either.

It is much easier and less messy(and cheaper, I ruined a mold of wood) to just use a seperate mold.

Plus, with a cold mold, it becomes solid much quicker and doesn't stick as much to the mold.


----------



## TSM

Ignition and combustion of the wood is my biggest concern. Best not to chance it. I'd hate to burn up an oven and the wife wouldn't be too pleased, either. I'd been using a 9x9 metal cake pan that I can melt the plastic in and press it in but I usually end up with a lot of waste. Well, not really waste because I can just melt it down again, but it takes a lot of plastic to fill the pan for a 3/4" thick block. I was just looking for a smaller form.


----------



## libel

Put a brick or even some bunched up aluminum foil on one side (or two) in your pan. Baking paper.


----------



## Lacumo

HDPE doesn't go liquid and get drippy. It gets soft and pliable but never liquid or drippy. I've read that LDPE gets liquid and drippy, but I don't work with it.

The mold vs. board with waste quandary is definitely a problem. I think they're more trouble than they're worth. All the posts and threads about them (the ones by Art of Weapons are a good example) show what a pain they are. One time use only, HDPE sticks to the mold really bad, you have to destroy the mold to get the HDPE out, etc... I find it better to put up with the problems of a board and the waste (which as was said can be reused). IMO--definitely don't put the mold in the oven. If the mold is plywood, there's no way to know what kind of fumes you may be cutting loose from the glue in the plywood or what the combustibility of that glue may be. If the mold is boards, it may (?) start to turn to charcoal. I don't know about that, but I'm not going to find out in my kitchen.

If you use a non-stick baking pan to bake the HDPE in, you can use another identical size pan to put on top of it and use as the press to compress the HDPE (quickly!) when you take it out of the oven. The non-stick aspect is convenient---after it cools, down, it's a pop-out scenario. if you use a pair of 8" square pans, you should get two frames out of one board.

One other thing there's no getting around is that you have to save up a serious quantity of HDPE pieces before you start baking up boards. Just one frame alone does't require that much, but a 3/4" thick board in an 8" square pan does.

One last thing that may be the single most important thing of all is to get your baked HDPE under a lot of pressure immediately after taking it out of the oven. That's the only way you'll have a shot at getting smooth surfaces and getting the air pockets out of your board. Smooth surfaces = less work later on, air pockets = possible structural failure when under the stress of full draw pressure and you want to avoid both of those things.

Good luck with the effort!


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

quote name="TSM" post="407591" timestamp="1394656460"]Yeah...that's what I was afraid of. Thanks[/quote]
No thw wood wont catch fire
I have got a couple of tutorials on this that could save alot of time for some of you here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiBJ_D3_ZSgL93ijyv2yRhYoD6pARS6g


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

sry got the link wrong :

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLiBJ_D3_ZSgL93ijyv2yRhYoD6pARS6gA


----------



## lexlow

hmm seems no point in doing a tutorial now lol beat me to it.


----------



## noah013

No, please make a tutorial! We can learn from each other!

Greetings, Noah013


----------



## lexlow

ok will do, if my bro ever wakes up (lazy git)


----------



## Rathunter

Lacumo said:


> HDPE doesn't go liquid and get drippy. It gets soft and pliable but never liquid or drippy. I've read that LDPE gets liquid and drippy, but I don't work with it.
> 
> The mold vs. board with waste quandary is definitely a problem. I think they're more trouble than they're worth. All the posts and threads about them (the ones by Art of Weapons are a good example) show what a pain they are. One time use only, HDPE sticks to the mold really bad, you have to destroy the mold to get the HDPE out, etc... I find it better to put up with the problems of a board and the waste (which as was said can be reused). IMO--definitely don't put the mold in the oven. If the mold is plywood, there's no way to know what kind of fumes you may be cutting loose from the glue in the plywood or what the combustibility of that glue may be. If the mold is boards, it may (?) start to turn to charcoal. I don't know about that, but I'm not going to find out in my kitchen.
> 
> If you use a non-stick baking pan to bake the HDPE in, you can use another identical size pan to put on top of it and use as the press to compress the HDPE (quickly!) when you take it out of the oven. The non-stick aspect is convenient---after it cools, down, it's a pop-out scenario. if you use a pair of 8" square pans, you should get two frames out of one board.
> 
> One other thing there's no getting around is that you have to save up a serious quantity of HDPE pieces before you start baking up boards. Just one frame alone does't require that much, but a 3/4" thick board in an 8" square pan does.
> 
> One last thing that may be the single most important thing of all is to get your baked HDPE under a lot of pressure immediately after taking it out of the oven. That's the only way you'll have a shot at getting smooth surfaces and getting the air pockets out of your board. Smooth surfaces = less work later on, air pockets = possible structural failure when under the stress of full draw pressure and you want to avoid both of those things.
> 
> Good luck with the effort!


to get charcoal you need to heat wood to over 400 degrees with no oxygen.

LDPE does get drippy... quite drippy... lower molecular weight(shorter chains) tends toward lower viscosity...


----------



## TSM

Against my better judgment, I did it anyway. I wanted to try to make a knife handle for a homemade camp knife. I made the mold in two halves each measuring 1.75" x 5" x .5" inside dimensions. Using the formula from one of my previous posts here, I weighed out 2.5oz cut up HDPE per side and lined both molds with aluminum foil and set up in the oven. The molds are made of .5" 9 layer plywood and .5" sq. dowel nailed and glued in place. After two hours at 350F, the HDPE was translucent, and the forms did not catch fire. The glue ran a little between the plywood layers and the .5" sq. dowel, but everything held in place nicely. I then placed the knife blade in between the two mold halves, lined them up as best I could and clamped it down in the bench vise. Once cooled, it popped right out and I just peeled the foil off. I now have a 3/4 tang knife with a one piece handle. No pins. No epoxy. Thoughts?


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

That is a really good idea!
I bet it looks **** when it comes out
I really like how you have used the hdpes properties to your advantage
One problem is if you leave the knife in the oven for too long it may ruin the heat treat but at that temp it probably lont do much


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## parnell

TSM that is cool. Take some pics when it is finished and let us know how it works for you.


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## lexlow

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hullooo again, briefly lol. Just thought





  








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I'd post a pic up of the pfs arrow done in ply and hdpe here. I got the idea from all the wood moulds being used on this thread.

i placed the hdpe measured in to melt, then placed a pre sized board on top of the plastic once melted for another half hour, to allow the wood to bond and heat to the same temp. The ply had had a grid of holes routed like the center of an hour glass .

then i out the hole lot into the press, allowing the hdpe to ooze into the voids , and then waited for it to cool.

then i off set the slab before surfacing to allow for layers to show on the ply face.


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## The Art Of Weapons

Nice work
I like hiw people are usig the sticking abilities of the molten hspe to there advantage 
Nice slingshot! !


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## Individual

The hdpe for a knife handle isn't a bad idea.

I'd like to have a go with polymorph too.

But i think it will burn and melt, possibly giving off fumes

Shaping the hdpe will be hard work. Do i need good ventilation or even suction whilst working with HDPE


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## TSM

I work HDPE with a rasp and sander, just like wood. You'll probably want a dust mask or bandanna or something.


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## The Art Of Weapons

Yep shaping cast hdpe is easy like wood but a bit softer but it is horrible to sand up since it blocks up all of the paper 
Helps abit if you add some water


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## Rathunter

Don't use a file. it gums it up.

Open-coat sandpaper doesn't gum up nearly as fast.


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## BCLuxor

Using a mixture of the methods above ensuring I am only melting HDPE will this leave any trace of fumes etc in my oven? It would be preferable to use a gas camp stove but the temp has to be stable?


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## Rathunter

if the HDPE is clean, and you don't heat it past 200 (long, slow heating is far better than fast, high heating- much less smell, much more even heat)

it doesn't smell much. But I mean CLEAN- no smell on the chips of plastic.


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## The Art Of Weapons

Yep I agree as long as you keep it below 200 c it is finei like 175 c because it is much less sticky then


----------



## BCLuxor

Thanks guys! I may start collecting some bottle caps!


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## noah013

You won't smell something as it's below 200 C. I use 175 C.

The shampoo bottles I'm using give a soap smell, but after I get the HDPE out, you won't smell anything.

Greetings, Noah013


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## noah013

Nice work Lexlow!

The combination with plywood and HDPE looks great!

Greetings, Noah013


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## Whitewolf

ya'll are using wood for molds..what about glass or bread baking pans???

Dennis


----------



## Individual

Whitewolf said:


> ya'll are using wood for molds..what about glass or bread baking pans???
> 
> Dennis


People use baking trays with baking paper to make slabs, It just doesn't gain thickness as easily..
Wood i just much easier..


----------



## Lacumo

When you use baking pans, different things happen...

1---Depending on pan size, you're making a board that's 8"x8" or 4 1/2"x9", so there's significant waste after you cut out your frame profile---even when you fit two frames onto an 8"x8" board.

2---Because of this, you use a lot more raw HDPE pieces to make the board than when you use a mold to make a rough frame profile.

3---You don't have to go through the hassle of hacking a wood mold apart to break the rough frame free, but you have to saw the frame profile out of the board.

4---Non-stick baking pans allow the (cooled) board to pop out of the pan in the blink of an eye.

5---You're not using up wood on one time-use molds that you have to destroy.

The wood mold vs. baking pans quandary comes down to one bottom line---each method has its own pros and cons. In terms of comparing the pros+cons bottom line totals, I suspect it probably works out about even in the end. It's probably a matter of personal preference. As the old saying goes, "Ya pays yer money and ya takes yer choice." Personally---I wish there was a third method that was all pluses and no minuses.


----------



## lexlow

i would say that is a fare evaluation mate. Although with my press mould for blocks are baking trays, but after a while the non stick stops in places, so baking paper is needed, and as such is an extra cost.

my next idea is for a press with the rough outlines of frames pressed out a non stick block ( possible silicone coated) so that you melt the plastic in the baking tray, then near the end place the template negative block on top, then when pressed from above, the molten hdpe will rise and fill the voids. This will still leave a thin amount as a sheet on the base, but it would be alot more blade and time friendly to cut out. I will be givinge in a try this week when i have a few more funds lol. Anyone else wanna try there own way of this theory, go ahead please.


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## Beanflip

I've had this scrap block lying around for a while so I decided I needed a thin La Cholita.


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## sandynoobhead

So.... no need for clamps or weights if I use the mold? :what:


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## Whitewolf

I cut mine smaller Beanflip ....please let me know how this turns out...

Dennis


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## TSM

sandynoobhead said:


> So.... no need for clamps or weights if I use the mold? :what:


No, you'll still need to clamp or press it as it cools to force out air pockets and keep it from warping as it contracts


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## sandynoobhead

oh ok....

this new HDPE thing gets me thinking about all the wonderful shooters I can make... then realise I don't have the right tools...


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## TSM

sandynoobhead said:


> oh ok....
> 
> this new HDPE thing gets me thinking about all the wonderful shooters I can make... then realise I don't have the right tools...


Balderdash! Alls you need is 4 3" C clamps, 1 metal 8x8 cake pan, 2 9x9 pieces of 3/4" plywood (or something similar), and some aluminum foil. Happy baking!


----------



## Lacumo

sandynoobhead said:


> this new HDPE thing gets me thinking about all the wonderful shooters I can make...


Using HDPE gives you some different types of flexibility you don't have with wood---no worries about grain direction, no having to laminate multiple layers to get adequate fork strength, etc---but HDPE isn't any effortless free ride. Cutting it into little pieces takes time and effort; baking it up to the right working temperature takes time; compressing it before it cools has to be done quickly and with enough pressure to force all the air pockets out; cutting and shaping it takes time and effort because it's a pretty hard board; getting a smooth surface when you finish it isn't the easiest thing to do, etc... It's not like beautifully crafted SS frames are going to be done and ready to use in the blink of an eye. But---one of these days I'll start coming up with unflawed, problem-free beauties that'll be worth posting pix of. Good luck with your HDPE efforts.


----------



## Twigs

So I'm gathering my hdpe supplies, and I am wondering how quickly does it cool?

what sort of working time from oven to clamping?


----------



## Rathunter

very short.

Like 20 seconds max before it begins to get annoyingly stiff(but still workable)

if you heat the mold it is actually pretty long.


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## stej

As Rathunter said, it cools down quite quickly. If you want a smooth surface, you need to hurry up.

I think the best thing would be to bake the HDPE put already in the mold. Then the only thing remaining is to press it and that could be done quickly.


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## Twigs

Rathunter said:


> very short.
> 
> Like 20 seconds max before it begins to get annoyingly stiff(but still workable)
> 
> if you heat the mold it is actually pretty long.





stej said:


> As Rathunter said, it cools down quite quickly. If you want a smooth surface, you need to hurry up.
> 
> I think the best thing would be to bake the HDPE put already in the mold. Then the only thing remaining is to press it and that could be done quickly.


Ok thanks Rathunter and stej, I had no clue it was that quick, I'll probably use the mold.

twigs


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## ash

I disagree with the 20 second thing. I use a sandwich press and the slab remains workable for minutes, not seconds. I routinely open the press, remove the baking paper, fold the slab, press it down, trim it, re-orient it add more material before closing the press again. That takes ages. It continues to shrink for up to an hour after being removed from the heat source, depending on the nature of the mould and it's cooling capacity.


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## lexlow

agreed, my press is adjustable for at least ten minutes. But the surface will get a hard skin on it in twenty seconds.

and then there is the faster cooling of edges that are not as insulated as the top and bottom faces. A huge curve can happen when say the top is not cooling as fast as the base. Also my blocks (2kg each) are un touchable for at least three hours from the heat.

have made the ultimate press now, its in the finishing off process, and then will need testing, but i get plenty of time to do that lol.


----------



## lexlow

oh, and does not need a car jack lol


----------



## Individual

My press is going to simply be 2 C clamps, 3 f clamps and one of them screwdriver clamps, 
How many grams of hdpe chips is enough for a shooter similar to your full sized size shooter Lex?

I'm unsure if i have enough, i have about 1/4 of a ice cream tub full. So i doubt it


----------



## stej

ash said:


> I disagree with the 20 second thing. I use a sandwich press and the slab remains workable for minutes, not seconds. I routinely open the press, remove the baking paper, fold the slab, press it down, trim it, re-orient it add more material before closing the press again. That takes ages. It continues to shrink for up to an hour after being removed from the heat source, depending on the nature of the mould and it's cooling capacity.


You are right that one can work with it much longer than 20 secs. However, it starts cooling down on the outer parts that are then quite cold. If you fold the HDPE and want the folded parts join together, it's quite risky. The more time that elapsed, the more likely that it won't stick together.

Besides that -- you use router (lucky you  ) -- but some of us don't have such power tools. If we want flat surface, we must hurry up at press it asap so that the HDPE is hot enough that it spreads evenly and makes almost shiny surface.

Hard to express my thoughts, sorry for my english


----------



## Rathunter

stej said:


> As Rathunter said, it cools down quite quickly. If you want a smooth surface, you need to hurry up.
> 
> I think the best thing would be to bake the HDPE put already in the mold. Then the only thing remaining is to press it and that could be done quickly.


the problem is that it tends to stick to the mold more and it also cools much slower.


----------



## stej

Rathunter said:


> stej said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Rathunter said, it cools down quite quickly. If you want a smooth surface, you need to hurry up.
> 
> I think the best thing would be to bake the HDPE put already in the mold. Then the only thing remaining is to press it and that could be done quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is that it tends to stick to the mold more and it also cools much slower.
Click to expand...

I don't mind if it cools slower. I hade a "mold" made from wood. The HDPE slab then followed the surface of wood and stick to wood a little bit. Baking paper didn't help much. So final step was an aluminium can. I cut it with scissors, put it on every side of the mold (the shiny side without color to the top) and I was done. The slab didn't stick to the alu and was perfectly flat.


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## flipgun

"So final step was an aluminium can. I cut it with scissors, put it on every side of the mold (the shiny side without color to the top) and I was done. The slab didn't stick to the alu and was perfectly flat."

Would not Heavy Duty foil work as well as the cans and easier to conform to the mold ?


----------



## Rathunter

hm. I have lots of alumn sheet.

I know what my next test is gonna be.


----------



## roxylass

can these blocks be cut with a jigsaw.
cheers.


----------



## Lacumo

1---Welcome to SSF.

2---Yes, but you'll want to have it clamped down solidly or in a vise to hold it still when you go at it with a jigsaw.


----------



## lexlow

frett saw works very well with a low teeth count on the blade, if you use a fine blade, as you saw through the block, it can rejoin as you cut through. If this happens, a tap with the round bit of a hammer is ok to persuade the two pieces apart, do not chisel apart lol


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## lexlow

oh poop only got fourty posts till 500!


----------



## stej

flipgun said:


> "So final step was an aluminium can. I cut it with scissors, put it on every side of the mold (the shiny side without color to the top) and I was done. The slab didn't stick to the alu and was perfectly flat."
> 
> Would not Heavy Duty foil work as well as the cans and easier to conform to the mold ?


I tried once, but it didn't work for me. Reasons:

- I don't know how well clamp the foil and woodend mold together. Nails might be good, but the foil tears soon

- when I take the HDPE slab from oven, I try to press it in hand so that it makes a decent shape that I can put into the mold. Then I press it again in the mold with my hand and that's the moment when the foil tears somewhere, because the surface of the slab tries to spread. (After that I close it and add clamps)

I hope it's understandable


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## TSM

I use foil in the mold and I think it works pretty good. I say pretty good because if there's any folds or creases in the foil and some of the HDPE gets in the fold, it will tear a little plug out of the foil that is sometimes a little difficult to get out of the block. I wondered a few time if cutting up a bunch of aluminum foil to add the HDPE chips would look cool or not. At least then it would hide the foil that got stuck in the plastic to begin with. I haven't tried the cans yet, but that sounds promising.


----------



## ash

Last night I was suddenly inspired to try melting plastic supermarket bags on the sandwich press. About 30 minutes and 50 bags later, I was quite surprised to have this scorching hot platter of hard plastic:



It is very similar to HDPE melted down from milk bottles, but smells a bit, possibly due to the ink on some of the bags and some residual food and dirt that I failed to remove completely. The first few layers were pretty scrappy looking and not very promising, but by the time I got it to about 6mm (1/4") thick is was starting to look quite good. The blob was about 16mm (5/8") thick and about 150mm (6") round by the time I decided to stop adding bags. I turned the heat off and left it to cool with 12kg of weight on top of the sandwich press. In the next hour of cooling it squashed down to about 12mm (1/2") and 200mm (8") in diameter. Enough for two of my latest design - Wasp.



It cuts pretty much the same as other HDPE, perhaps slightly softer and drier. It fuses very well. Not much in the way of bubbles or delamination. There were a couple of inclusions - probably food that I didn't clean out of the bags. I didn't pay much attention to bag-prep. I just grabbed them and stuffed them onto the hot blob three at a time.



Two slightly smelly shooters! I'll flatband one and tube the other and give them a go this weekend.


----------



## ghost0311/8541

Looks good.


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## leon13

Yes ! Very cool thanks for the tutorial????


----------



## stej

Great work, ash. Those are thumb support slingshots or is your hand so big?  I can't guess the dimensions.


----------



## Twigs

So I tried out making a block of HDPE today, I'm using a large toaster oven. I put my whole mold in the oven, my place smells of plywood  opened the windows and it disapated. The toaster oven I'm using only adjusts by 25 degree increments, and was falling short of 180 C so I played the cyclical game of bumping up the temp and dropping it to stay around 180 C. I added one cup of milk jug chips at a time and got to 5 cups before I had to quit to go to an appointment. It yielded a block 6" x 4". I used 50lbs of weights and when I set them on it slid the top of the mold so my block tapers from 1/2" to 1". I have yet to cut into it, so I don't know if I have air pockets yet or not, but looks promising.


----------



## Twigs

stej said:


> Rathunter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> stej said:
> 
> 
> 
> As Rathunter said, it cools down quite quickly. If you want a smooth surface, you need to hurry up.
> 
> I think the best thing would be to bake the HDPE put already in the mold. Then the only thing remaining is to press it and that could be done quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> the problem is that it tends to stick to the mold more and it also cools much slower.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I don't mind if it cools slower. I hade a "mold" made from wood. The HDPE slab then followed the surface of wood and stick to wood a little bit. Baking paper didn't help much. So final step was an aluminium can. I cut it with scissors, put it on every side of the mold (the shiny side without color to the top) and I was done. The slab didn't stick to the alu and was perfectly flat.
Click to expand...

I was going to just use a baking pan but did not have enough HDPE yet, so I built a mold out of wood with all surfaces touching the HDPE covered with pop cans, I tried screwing it on and that did't work, staples worked until I ran out although it was finicky as either the stapler would not fire or it would tear through the can, so I used roofing nails. It worked beautifully, I have no comparison as this was my first try, and I did get one small tear so I might need to replace one side with a new can but otherwise the HDPE just popped out. Thanks for that tip, now to try some teflon hmm....


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## Twigs

Here is the mold I used.


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## Twigs

This is my block of HDPE, I have black spots throughout from the ink, do you guys discard parts with ink or do you toss it all in as well?

























now to build.

twigs


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## Peter Recuas

Thank you very much . . . I have much to read before asking


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## Lacumo

Good looking first effort! The surfaces look pretty smooth, which suggests you're probably not bad off with air pockets. You did well to use milk jugs---I think the milk jugs tend to melt easier, compress together pretty easy and trap less air pockets. My first disaster effort was with Tide laundry detergent jugs and I didn't know enough to get it under heavy pressure immediately after taking it out of the oven. The surface looked like a mountain range and the trapped air pockets were bad news. On top of that, the Tide jugs are bright orange on the outside and beige on the inside, so the resulting block was a pukey looking mix of both colors. Rough-surfaced, ugly and full of air pockets---what a dog! That one went into the trash and I went back to the drawing board. Looks like you avoided that experience---good for you!


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## Twigs

Thanks Lacumo,

But my success is a direct result of reading this entire thread and following as best I could. I had started saving tide bottles but I think I will pass, no pukey SS for me

I often learn from my mistakes the most, but when you learn from others too your that much ahead.


----------



## Lacumo

IMO---definitely throw the Tide jugs out. I've read everything I could find about HDPE (here and elsewhere) and I never saw one Tide jug success story, although I've seen some about bad outcomes.

I forgot to mention before... You asked about the dark spots from ink on the milk jugs. If you want a snow white HDPE block, you have to scrape off or cut out all the labels, ink and anything else so you're working with totally clean HDPE pieces. That's not hard to do with milk jugs, but I've found it to be a nightmare with laundry detergent jugs. They have big labels that I just can't get the better of so I just cut the labels out and throw those pieces away, which is an unfortunate waste of nice big flat pieces. I know others have mastered getting those labels off, but I haven't figured that one out yet.


----------



## libel

I wipe the jugs with acetone to get any ink out. Once over with it also gets rid of any other grime still stuck on. I'm too lazy for labels. I've used label off sprays or scrapped/sanded them off in the past but i gave up on this. You still need a solvent to get any gum left behind.

I've used bunched up foil for molds in the past but it needed baking paper to keep the plastic from sticking on it. Taking the advice of a person in another forum I now cast molds out of cement or grout. A little silicon release agent rubbed on the faces touching the plastic it makes it non stick.


----------



## slingshooterPT

Could I melt the HDPE in the stove/cooker instead of in the oven?

Thanks


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

just made a new video tutorial for my best results so far enjoy!


----------



## Beanflip

I haven't posted here much lately. The toaster oven I'd been using isn't working as well as I'd like. I'd like to try the oven in the house but I am VERY concerned that any odor whatsoever left behind would cause a HUGE problem between my wife and I.


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## Lacumo

Beanflip said:


> I'd like to try the oven in the house but I am VERY concerned that any odor whatsoever left behind would cause a HUGE problem between my wife and I.


I can't make any guarantees, but... I've baked up HDPE from liquid laundry detergent jugs a number of times. My kitchen isn't any kind of big and I've never had any kind of odor problem.

I've never baked up any pieces that had any kind of ink or labels on them and I've always washed the pieces thoroughly before I cut them up into little pieces. Also... I've never used a wood mold in the oven. I just use baking pans---sometimes with baking parchment paper. I've also kept the oven temp no higher than 365F. So---overall, I've only worked with totally clean HDPE pieces and I've kept the oven temp low enough to avoid singeing the HDPE. All that being said, I've had zero odor problems.

I think you're safe if you "keep it clean," keep the oven temp no higher than it should be and stay away from wood molds. I don't know if ink or labels on the HDPE can cause odors or if wood molds can cause odors either, but I've made a point of not finding out. I've read in previous posts that HDPE from shampoo bottles that hadn't been well washed caused a perfume type odor. It was because of those posts that I always rinse my HDPE off thoroughly with hot water.

Good luck with it. Just to be safe--- is there some weekend when your wife does a road trip to visit her parents or go to a quilting exhibition or something else like that?


----------



## Beanflip

Thanks for the response Lacumo. I'll put some more thought into it.


----------



## stej

Lacumo said:


> ...
> 
> I'd like to try the oven in the house but I am VERY concerned that any odor whatsoever left behind would cause a HUGE problem between my wife and I.
> 
> I've never baked up any pieces that had any kind of ink or labels on them and I've always washed the pieces thoroughly before I cut them up into little pieces. Also... I've never used a wood mold in the oven. I just use baking pans---sometimes with baking parchment paper. I've also kept the oven temp no higher than 365F. ...


I sometimes went up to 195°-200°C, because I wanted the HDPE to be more liquid - as syrup (as some noted).That might cause to be more smelly then when keeping the temp low enough.


----------



## ash

I've never had any smell from the HDPE, just the things that were in it. Usually shampoo fragrances. Burnt milk is the worst you'll get and only if you don't wash it out.


----------



## Beanflip

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/33030-creamcicle-a-prototype-gone-wild/


----------



## Hoss

This is a great idea, I will never look at a milk jug the same way any more.


----------



## Devil'sRival

I got a tore up 7" pipe thread protector from work and figured it would be easier to melt it down than to try cutting it into small pieces. I did cut into a few big pieces to melt it easier but I think next time I'm just going to drill out the center and stick it in the oven.

These are after it was done cooling. I left it in the 9x9 pan and clamped it on the corners with a board on top and bottom. I had a bit of it push out so I need to fix my top board.



















Do not use wax paper, it sticks big time. I wasn't paying attention and grabbed it by mistake. Oh well, it'll sand off.










That big chunk that pushed up is now a dog toy. He stole it while I was trying to get the wax paper off the sheet.










I have a blue protector that I need to clean up a bit more then it'll be next. My boy likes Spider-Man so I'll be mixing these and maybe some black for his slingshot.


----------



## Lacumo

Re-baked HDPE can be pretty hard stuff---might not be too good for your dog's teeth... The board looks like it has smooth surfaces, which should mean few if any air pockets---which is as good as it gets.


----------



## Beanflip

Devil'sRival said:


> I got a tore up 7" pipe thread protector from work and figured it would be easier to melt it down than to try cutting it into small pieces. I did cut into a few big pieces to melt it easier but I think next time I'm just going to drill out the center and stick it in the oven.
> 
> These are after it was done cooling. I left it in the 9x9 pan and clamped it on the corners with a board on top and bottom. I had a bit of it push out so I need to fix my top board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do not use wax paper, it sticks big time. I wasn't paying attention and grabbed it by mistake. Oh well, it'll sand off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That big chunk that pushed up is now a dog toy. He stole it while I was trying to get the wax paper off the sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a blue protector that I need to clean up a bit more then it'll be next. My boy likes Spider-Man so I'll be mixing these and maybe some black for his slingshot.


What did the thread protector look like before you melted it?


----------



## Devil'sRival

Lacumo said:


> Re-baked HDPE can be pretty hard stuff---might not be too good for your dog's teeth... The board looks like it has smooth surfaces, which should mean few if any air pockets---which is as good as it gets.


I'll watch him with it. He'll grab almost anything. Heck I had just taken a scrap of plywood from him.

I watched it close while baking and popped some of the air pockets with a needle because they take forever to pop on their own. I may bump the temp above 350 next time to see if it'll speed things up.


Beanflip said:


> Devil'sRival said:
> 
> 
> 
> I got a tore up 7" pipe thread protector from work and figured it would be easier to melt it down than to try cutting it into small pieces. I did cut into a few big pieces to melt it easier but I think next time I'm just going to drill out the center and stick it in the oven.
> 
> These are after it was done cooling. I left it in the 9x9 pan and clamped it on the corners with a board on top and bottom. I had a bit of it push out so I need to fix my top board.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do not use wax paper, it sticks big time. I wasn't paying attention and grabbed it by mistake. Oh well, it'll sand off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That big chunk that pushed up is now a dog toy. He stole it while I was trying to get the wax paper off the sheet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I have a blue protector that I need to clean up a bit more then it'll be next. My boy likes Spider-Man so I'll be mixing these and maybe some black for his slingshot.
> 
> 
> 
> What did the thread protector look like before you melted it?
Click to expand...

I'll try to get a picture of one. They go on oilfield pipe.


----------



## Beanflip

Thanks . Love the color.


----------



## ash

Yeah, great colour!

I use baking paper on mine and it only sticks when the HDPE is at its hottest. When it cools down a bit it just lets go.

Ordinary non-baking waxed paper was indeed no good.


----------



## Devil'sRival

ash said:


> Yeah, great colour!
> 
> I use baking paper on mine and it only sticks when the HDPE is at its hottest. When it cools down a bit it just lets go.
> 
> Ordinary non-baking waxed paper was indeed no good.


Its wax paper for cooking. I didn't read the label beforehand. I just grabbed it from the drawer ripped off a piece and tossed it back. Its on there good but my power sander should make quick work of getting it off.

I like the shade of red too. I already have a few plans for it. Still deciding on frame style though.

I didn't have time to take a picture of a protector last night but I spotted a few that I'll hopefully pick up tonight. They range from 4½-9⅝ diameter.


----------



## Devil'sRival

Here you go beanflip.

I threw my scout in as a size reference. The red is 5½" and the blue one is 9⅝". I've got the blue one in the oven now. Hopefully it turns out good.


----------



## Devil'sRival

Here's the blue after 2½ hours at 365F.

No wax paper this time.










The foil wrinkled it a bit but it still looks good.


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## Lacumo

That's a smooooooth looking, nice job. Looks like baking it longer works well.


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## Byudzai

found stacks of these out behind the neighboring restaurant. all HDPE. score!


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## august2023

Good job and environment friendly


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## strhunter2

ive been lurking around for quite a bit but after i read all 29 pages of this i decided it was time to make an account.

i have a theroy that because you are going from hot to cold while molding thats causing some of the buckeling.

to test this i am heating up a blob of HDPE in the oven and getting it to the size and shape i want but instead of taking it out of the oven im going to try keeping it in the oven and slowly cooling down overtime

hopefully that makes sence


----------



## Lacumo

1---Welcome to SSF.

2---On baking up an HDPE board...

Getting the HDPE under serious pressure (weights, C-clamps, bottle jack press or whatever) quickly to force out any trapped air pockets is important because those pockets weaken your board and could lead to failure. Letting it cool slowly in the oven without being under pressure won't get the air pockets out. When you take it out of the oven, it cools surprisingly slowly. It stops being soft/formable/workable and starts to harden up in a matter of minutes, but it takes a long time to go from oven temperature all the way back down to room temperature.

Your idea about slow cooling gives rise to a spin-off idea, though. If a baking pan of HDPE was put under C-clamp pressure (re-tightening the clamps periodically) and then cooled down ultra-slowly in the oven, it might force the air pockets out even better and produce an even smoother board. I don't think anybody's described doing that yet.


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## strhunter2

well it seemed to work for me, i folded and compressed the HDPE 3 times then sandwiched it between 2 cookie sheets and used a ceramic dish as weight, after about 4 hrs of cooling i got impatiant and ran it under some water , my result isint as flat on both sides as yours might be but seems to work and as far as i can tell theres no visiable air bubbles


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## EddieCar

Has anyone tried layering the colors like micarta? I saw the one lex did with the material. I was thinking just sheets of different colors.


----------



## Lacumo

You read this thread so you know the other guys who've done the most of this use C-clamps and bottle jack presses that compress the HDPE with over a couple hundred pounds of pressure to force out trapped air pockets. If you only put a dish on top of your board to force out trapped air, you may well have internal air pockets that you'll only see when you cut through the board with a saw. Good luck with your experiment and your project.


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## strhunter2

i cut it into a slingshot blank and saw no air pockets


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## Aries666

So after you have a plastic brick how do you shape it?


----------



## Blade

Just like you would if it was any other material like a board. Cut your shape out, and profile it.


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## Aries666

Sweet. So I'm assuming that some kind of heat treatment was used to round off the final product?


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## Hoss

You can use a router with a good round over bit.


----------



## Bulls-Eye

Beanflip said:


> Did I miss advise on removing the stickers from detergent bottles? Is there a solvent that works?


If it is a label stuck to the bottle with glue, (they tear badly when you try to peal them) I fill container with water to level of top of sticker and heat in microwave 5-9 minutes depending on size of container. Remove from microwave and with very hot water still in the container gently lift the edge of label and easily peel off. The heat in water liquifies the glue and lets you easily peel complet label!! Still leaves light sticky film on container. This may disapear in oven...don't know yet. Am just getting HDPE ready to melt!!

By the way...my wife is very interested in seeing what I can make in her oven...not to worried about it. Says she has two fire extinguishers that she bought just for when I am working in the kitchen!!! Not sure why she said that!!!


----------



## Bulls-Eye

Beanflip said:


> I stopped at the recycling center after work today.
> "I see slingshots!"
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1375307421.855287.jpg


Jeese!!! A whole truck load!!!!!!!!

Look guys, I don't want to get anyone in trouble, BUT... Milk crates and bottle crates that you see around the back of grocery stores and 7-11's have a large volume of HDPE in them...at least one good sized SS in a milk crate. Good color selection and availability...don't get caught!!!

Be truthfull...one of the reasons your so attracted to SS's is because they appeal to the Juvenile Delinquent in you!! Hey, I'm 60 and still got that rebelious side to me...so don't throw me off the forum...I still have lots of good ideas to share!!

Here is one:

Throw out the scissors!!! Get an electric 3" or 4" hand grinder with thin cut off wheels and cut those HDPE containers down to size in seconds. No more sore fingers.

And yes you can cut to the bone quickly with a cut off wheel so use due caution...Leather gloves/eye protection!!!

Harbor Freight has a grinder on sale for $19.99 untill Dec 20, 2014. The wheel is perpendicular to the shaft right out of the motor. Not at a 90% angle like my welding grinder. It is a breeze to cut with, The cut off wheels are extra .50-.60 cents a piece. It is a 3" wheel, used to cut muffler systems off of cars. If you plan on doing a lot of HDPE this is the 1st tool you should buy.

I posted this when I was on page 10 of this topic.


----------



## Bulls-Eye

Imperial said:


> everytime i see the yellow and red colors im reminded of
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> issedoff:i hate hogan ! . . . but i like the hulkamania slingshot


I have it on good authority that his muscles are HDPE palm swells implanted under the skin!!!


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## Bulls-Eye

Beanflip said:


> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1375647462.257856.jpg
> Hulk smash!


Talk about a Hulk Smash!!! Your Royals Kicked some Major Butt this year!!! Congrats...Just so this can stay on topic your SS looks great!


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## Bulls-Eye

ash said:


> Here are some pictures of my idea (in horizontal orientation)
> 
> 1. The basic arrangement with the side omitted to show the inside shape. The slab would end up just like the piston. Make the whole thing of strong plywood the same thickness as your final slab.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> denim 001.JPG
> 
> 2. You would need a door (breech) to get the HDPE blob into the mould. A long wooden handle might be enough to flatten it and close the door. Would need latches of some kind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> denim 003.JPG
> 
> 3. Looking from the top, down now. This arrangement would obviously result in a rectangular black that still needs alot of cutting and leaves a lot of waste.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> denim 002.JPG
> 
> 4. By dropping a pair of triangular ply fillers into the corners, you'd reduce waste and possibly the pressure required.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> denim 004.JPG
> 
> 5. A more complex set of filler shapes could get you a lot closer to your final shape. indeed it is possible that you could mould the exact shape and push the whole lot out in one go with ejector pins (bolts or dowels). You may not even have to wait for it to cool down. Let it cool sitting in it's "sabot" of plywood fillers, load another set of fillers and mould the next one straight away.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> denim 005.JP


To get any kind of good flow with the plastic you would need to heat the mold close to the temp of the plastic...like placing the mold in the oven to bring it up to temp. A cold mold draws to much heat out of the plastic to allow a smooth injection flow. Just like casting lead bullits. You have to heat the mold to get a good pour. And that is with a liquid, not a sludge. Not saying it can't be done.


----------



## Bulls-Eye

ash said:


> Lacumo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ash -- just to clarify your last point -- what are the caustic soda product(s) that it'd be good to use -- Borax?
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what is readily available. Borax might work, I've never tried it. If there's a caustic soda based cleaning product available at your local supermarket or hardware store, that might be the place to try. Rubber gloves and caution - it's not at all skin friendly.
> 
> Kerosene is another one and probably safer than caustic soda.
Click to expand...

Caustic Soda is an alkaline material and will burn you the same as acid will. Splashed in your eye can cause blindness. Unless you have experience working with alkaloids steer clear please. There are much safer ways of removing stuborn lables. Enjoying this hobby with out a very expensive visit to the ER should be your 1st priority my friend. And yes I am very fortunate to have all my fingers and eyes...I have done some of the stupidest and most dangerous things you can imagine. I am the luckiest SOB you'll ever meet. Someday my luck will run out and I will be in a world of hurt. If you can learn from my mistakes please save yourselves.


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## Bulls-Eye

Beanflip said:


> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379284479.869608.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379284491.219658.jpg
> Now I need a planer.


Actually a router screwed to a square peice of plexiglass fastened to two wood rails with a flat bit 3/4" wide can act as a make shift planner for your HDPE melts. But you have to fasten the plastic to the table top. Any screws must be counter sunk below the level of the deepest cut with the router.


----------



## Bulls-Eye

ash said:


> I chopped up a bunch of bit 20 Litre drums with the bandsaw last night. Neighbours weren't happy with the SCREEEEEEE! noises and chucked some rocks or something onto the roof. Screw-em! It's an industrial area and no-one forced them to stand on their balcony and adore the view of factory roofs! :rofl:


Adrian are those about 6 gal drums. If HDPE where did you get them?


----------



## ash

Bulls-Eye said:


> ash said:
> 
> 
> 
> I chopped up a bunch of bit 20 Litre drums with the bandsaw last night. Neighbours weren't happy with the SCREEEEEEE! noises and chucked some rocks or something onto the roof. Screw-em! It's an industrial area and no-one forced them to stand on their balcony and adore the view of factory roofs! :rofl:
> 
> 
> 
> Adrian are those about 6 gal drums. If HDPE where did you get them?
Click to expand...

One came from a car repair place across the road. Probably contained detergent originally. Another was similar from a different place. The last was a mayonnaise bucket from a commercial kitchen.


----------



## Metropolicity

Beanflip said:


> My neighbor had a planer! Sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286857.412701.jpg
> 
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> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286867.754490.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286878.402624.jpg


Is that a hand planer?! I have one and never thought to use it on HDPE!


----------



## Beanflip

Metropolicity said:


> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> My neighbor had a planer! Sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286857.412701.jpg
> 
> 
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> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286867.754490.jpg
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286878.402624.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a hand planer?! I have one and never thought to use it on HDPE!
Click to expand...

 Yep!


----------



## hainfelder

Hi there,

looks like this is gonna be my first post ...

after reading a good part of this thread (yes - you hooked me up) ...

i got some HDPE-granulate from a client, who is in the plastics recycling business - grinding plastics into granulate ...









without making a big fuss I just wanted to see if all the pressing and forming is necessary ... if you have granulate

I did just put it into a ceramic oven form from IKEA

*Heating process:*

(with a meat thermometer in the oven for temperature control)

preheating the oven

@120°C: preheating the HDPE for 20min

slowly rising to

@180°C: waiting until there is just one nice sea of HDPE in the form

switching off the oven after

one hour total

*Cooling process:*

left it in the oven, doors closed, so relatively slow cooling for less tension -

over night.

*Outcome:*

well - I am pretty impressed - the blank shrinked a little bit, so i could take it out of the mould very easy

its totally flat and even on the downside, nearly flat on the topside (you can see it on the pics)

































well - this was way easier (no pressing ...), than I thought.

Looking forward to get mixed-colors granulate next time (was out of stock)

hainfelder

from good old germany ;-)


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout

That's awesome! Be sure to post if you find any voids or bubbles in your blank.


----------



## dreammicke

vad dont you juse a grindier fore wood to grined up the HDPE

sorry fore my bade englise

mikael


----------



## flipgun

Grinders tend to go too fast I think. It melts the plastic instead of removing it. I have had some success shaping plastic with a firm buffing wheel though.


----------



## hainfelder

you'llshootyereyeout said:


> That's awesome! Be sure to post if you find any voids or bubbles in your blank.


well - all i found in the making process was this:





  








HDPE 1 DSC 4481




__
hainfelder


__
Oct 30, 2014


__
2







and maybe 2 miniscule spots under 1mm

btw: from approx. 32mm fill height of granulate I just got a 18mm blank


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## dreammicke

HDPE on bages labeld in kategory 4 is only to tell the plastik industi it is a mix betvin HDPE and LDPE and the mix jusely are 60 HD and 40 LD thay do thet mix to get the durabilite of HD and the flexebelity of LD

to get a good finess on you HDPE whay not juse a heet gun and metal frame as the plastik welders do gas pipelines and tinges like thet are welded togeder to get the stenges all the whay tru wide out andy vike pointes as you get wen you conekt to pipes wide a slive

sorry a bout my bad englise


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## hainfelder

Beanflip said:


> Metropolicity said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beanflip said:
> 
> 
> 
> My neighbor had a planer! Sweet!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286857.412701.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286867.754490.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ImageUploadedByTapatalk1379286878.402624.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> Is that a hand planer?! I have one and never thought to use it on HDPE!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Yep!
Click to expand...

a yes - got one of these and kind of forgot it - great idea


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## hainfelder

second time melting in the ceramic pan and results:

*again*: no pressure and no release agents ...

this time HDPE granulate from recycling shop and cutouts from the first melt

(some really big pieces)

*procedure:*

120°C 50min

150°C 20min

175°C 60min

in the process the HDPE looks like this





  








HDPE 2 DSC 4771




__
hainfelder


__
Nov 10, 2014


__
1







after that its like a see of lava which is slowly closing into one flat surface

this is the blank i got out:




  








HDPE 2 DSC 4818




__
hainfelder


__
Nov 10, 2014


__
2







minor little air spots ...




  








HDPE 2 DSC 4820




__
hainfelder


__
Nov 10, 2014


__
1







*BUT:*

i should have cleaned the ceramic form upfront!!!

In the cooling process the HDPE shrinked enough to loosen itself from the most part of the mold - but some of it melted to the residues from the first melt - i had to put a screw into the HDPE to tear it out of the mold ...

*CONCLUSION:* granulate works fine for me without pressure applied - the most air bubbles i got on the surface. Need a better fitting mold and will use a release agent of any sort or baking paper next time. No pressure for the near future.

*BTW:* 1kg of HDPE granulate from the recycling company is worth around 1€

Greetings

hainfelder


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout

I'm gonna try the no pressure slow cool method tonight! Thanks for sharing.


----------



## hainfelder

Ah yes -



you'llshootyereyeout said:


> I'm gonna try the no pressure slow cool method tonight! Thanks for sharing.


;-) the "no-pressure-slow-and long-heat-slow-cool" method

(thanks for that)

I got forgot about the cooling in my last post.

(no more editing now)

The first time i let it cool in the warm oven over night ...

Second time was a very much faster cooling but still ... in the oven ...

and way slower than taking the blank out from 175°C to 20°C

something like this:

150°C 10min

120°C 15min

100°C 10min ...

the blank is still totally flat on the underside

topside a little lifted on the sides of the blank

hf


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

This method looks great!
I might give it a go if you dont mind?


----------



## hainfelder

The Art Of Weapons said:


> This method looks great!
> I might give it a go if you dont mind?


well - exchange of trial, error and experience was the reason to post it

head on!


----------



## Susi

Ah, thanks for the temperature info. I used a Taylor oven thermometer to measure/regulate temperature. My oven is a toaster oven with an element on both top and bottom for even heat. I heated it to 170C and it bubbled on me. Possibly I had a plastic that I thought was HDPE and wasn't....that may have been the source of the bubbles, it's bad too. My first melt was not bubbled at all and I used the same temperatures...but a few air voids since I used chips I cut from all sorts of articles from plastic bottles to solid stuff. I waited a half hour inbetween additions of more chips and it took about 8 hours for my first melt off and on...adding a few chips at a time to let it melt in.

Your granulated material is superior to my chips I hand cut. I don't have a source here in southern Ecuador for granules.

I'm shifting my interest to micarta made of blue jeans and other cloth in the near future to capture experience with that, not saying I'll never use HDPE again, I probably will but it is so time consuming using chips both cutting the chips and the loooong melt process...for what I get. I like the colors I can make with recycled HDPE however.

My silicone mold came out pretty good for an HDPE SS, now to cast it in polyester resin with human hair as a strengthening fiber. Sounds gross but hair is an incredibly strong lightweight fiber. More info in my gallery in weeks to come.

THANK you for the tips! You sure mastered the melt. I'd like to know if there are bubbles or voids, by the looks of your billet, you'll have a nice solid one.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Thanks
I may also experiment with adding wood and metal dust as well as layers or denim to make some sort of hdpe micarter?


----------



## Individual

The Art Of Weapons said:


> Thanks
> I may also experiment with adding wood and metal dust as well as layers or denim to make some sort of hdpe micarter?


Make sure you're using a good metal, Metal dust may spark in a oven, And would have to have VERY Similar melting properties to the HDPE, Otherwise I'd assume it would all stay at one layer.


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout

Ok, so here are the results from my test run last night. Not what one would call a raging success.

250°F - 30min
345°F - 3.5 hours 
Turned off oven and left over night.

Here is what I observed

The white HDPE does not become liquid enough to form a solid mass without pressure. It can be seen in the photos that the colored HDPE melted quite nicely and formed to their surroundings. This reminded me that when I melted black HDPE the first time I noticed it was considerably more liquid than the other colors.

The last photo (sry it's upside down) is an example of how the black melts better. The orange in the two slingshots is from the same bucket. But notice how the black and white are different. The white holds its shape more and the black almost swirls.

I will attempt this experiment again sans white.


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout

Preformed the test again sans white HDPE.

Used orange, silver, blue, (5 gal buckets) and black (lid) HDPE. All pieces were scraps from previous blanks.

60 min @ 250deg
3 hrs @ 345deg (half way through I tamped down the Moulton HDPE)
60 min @ 170deg (my ovens lowest setting)
Left in the oven over night.

Results I observed are:
A successful blank may be obtained with these colors. I have yet to cut into this blank but it looks promising at this time. I will continue to post my findings.

Need to slow down the cooling process. This blank has a bit of a curve to it.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Looks great! Must give this a go!


----------



## flipgun

Good Lookin' mix!


----------



## hainfelder

you'llshootyereyeout said:


> Preformed the test again sans white HDPE.


Wow - looks great!


----------



## hainfelder

when i was looking at the pieces you through in I never would have thought,

that they melt together ...


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout

Well I cut into the blank today. I have found zero voids or bubbles. It appears that with the right colors this is quite an effective method.


----------



## Can-Opener

you'llshootyereyeout said:


> Well I cut into the blank today. I have found zero voids or bubbles. It appears that with the right colors this is quite an effective method.


You guys are going with the slow route as being better. Also your are going with lower temps. I have been melting in a cake pan and trying higher temps and faster cool downs. It has been very sucessful for me.

I can melt in 1 hour to 1 1/2 hour at 400 degrees. At the higher temps the HDPE is hot enough the air bubbles flow to the top. Big scrape chunks work fine. I like to use flat pieces from the bucket sides they create a wood grain effect.

5 gal pickle buckets are my favorite lots of material and they are free. I take the pan out hot and set it on wood riser block so air can go under it. I let it set and it cools enough in 10 minutes or so to put a board under the pan and one on top of the HDPE Then I gently clamp it because if you go to hard it will bubble up and out around the edges. The board insulates the HDPE and it takes 12 hours to cool down. But the results are amazing.

Here is a picture of a quilted pattern done this way red bucket and orange bucket cut into 1 1/2" strips and short lenghts laid up in a pattern  I call it quilted HDPE









The green one in this photo is bucket rims and bottoms laid in in big pieces alternating colors to trap air intentionally the air bubbles travel up and pulls the color through each other. The multi color blank is big chunks melted back together. All done in a cake pan with the board clamp during cooling


----------



## Can-Opener

Here is a more graphic example. The stripes are from buckets cut into stips and laid in the pan in a pattern. Quilted HDPE  The random patterns come from the rims and bottoms and lids laid in big pieces


----------



## hainfelder

@can-opener: slow route wasn`t meant to be better - my idea behind was,
that you do not need the clamping and pressing after the melt.

if I understand you right you heat fast, hot (400°F~204°C) and long (1,5 hours)
and then go also the slow route for cooling down

seems like we get to a great combination

gonny try higher heat as i still have miniscule air bubbles in the material
Still on slow cooling, and for sure long heat


----------



## hainfelder

@can-opener: I am totally amazed :wub: by the striped, quilted and more patterns that come
out, if you lay stripes of material in the pan - already evernoted your post from June!

just i need the right material for this - as for the moment i get my HDPE granulate
only in black and maybe multi-colored in future.

Am looking forward to find a good supply for buckets (where do you get your buckets for free?)

Sheet material seems to come only in black or natural color ...

Also just bought me a nice cake pan with no-stick coating ...


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout

I'm not suggesting better. Just an effective means to the same end. If fact I've only used this method twice.

One thing that I think is neat about the slow cool method is that someone with almost no tools could get into slingshot making. I keep reading threads about how people want to make shooters but don't have a shop. I mean a coping saw, a rasp/file and one clamp is all you would need.


----------



## Can-Opener

hainfelder said:


> @can-opener: I am totally amazed :wub: by the striped, quilted and more patterns that come
> out, if you lay stripes of material in the pan - already evernoted your post from June!
> 
> just i need the right material for this - as for the moment i get my HDPE granulate
> only in black and maybe multi-colored in future.
> 
> Am looking forward to find a good supply for buckets (where do you get your buckets for free?)
> 
> Sheet material seems to come only in black or natural color ...
> 
> Also just bought me a nice cake pan with no-stick coating ...


I ask at my local hamburger resturant. The dill pickles come in 5 gal bucket. Some restaurants sell them for $2.50 My hamburger place and my favorite Chinese restaurant just give them to me when they have them. Today the local box store had colored buckets for $5.00.. Two colored buckets $10.00 two free pickle buckets yields all together 6 large slingshots. less than 2 dollar per slingshot  Home depot buckets( Orange) are $2.75 here. this with free pickle buckets comes out to $1.00 per slingshot 

All that said the labor to make the blanks is ridiculous. If it is not a labor of love than it is a wasted cause


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## Can-Opener

The HDPE it acts just like fused glass. By cooling it slowly you are letting the entire mass come done at a more even rate. That is why it dose not warp as badly. The warp-age is caused if the outside is cooling faster than the middle. The out side cools and shrinks pulling it in against the inside mass which is still hot and not ready to shrink yet. So cooling it slowly avoids this. This is the same for glass and is called an annealing cycle. For me it is so easy to put on a simple clamp so that is what I do. As I mentioned before this also insulates the top and bottom and slows the cool down.


----------



## Can-Opener

you'llshootyereyeout said:


> I'm not suggesting better. Just an effective means to the same end. If fact I've only used this method twice.
> 
> One thing that I think is neat about the slow cool method is that someone with almost no tools could get into slingshot making. I keep reading threads about how people want to make shooters but don't have a shop. I mean a coping saw, a rasp/file and one clamp is all you would need.


Not saying this is invalid.  Just saying what I do and why


----------



## flipgun

The results on this thread are just amazing.


----------



## Can-Opener

Here is a step by step cake pan cool down 

Out of the oven and onto the the board shelf









Allowed to cool for about ten minutes. You can see the surface starting to distort.









Take it off the shelf boards and put the bottom board on the shelf









Put the pan back on the boarded shelf









When the surface is starting to really set up it looks like this on the edge but do not be fooled the center is still very HOT!!









I put the top board on and add the clamps just gently tightening them. If you squeeze it too much it will come out the side as seen in this photo









All four clamps on









Lastly I turn it upside down to keep the heat away from the table. Probably not necessary









The little nugget popping out the side is gold because it will have a pattern in it like where it came from and can be very interesting. I save it and put it in another melt of similar color. 

Tomorrow morning I will take it out of the pan and run it through the planner than I will see what I got!  It is very fun and exciting!


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Looks nice! 
I was looking at my old tool boxes (just the cheep plastic ones that the tools come in) and its made of solid black HDPE!
I think it could work well with some white from milk cartons? Going to give it a go soon


----------



## WalkingSlow

Fantastic looking blank by the way.

So do you get any smell from those higher temps?

Do you really get it that hot 205 C 400F mine started to stink of burning plastic at about 190c with a real cooking thermometer measuring ,though it not a fan forced oven, that was with milk jugs that are opaque natural hdpe and a little black mixed in, the thing browned a little bit. Your blank looks so good.


----------



## Can-Opener

walkslo said:


> Fantastic looking blank by the way.
> 
> So do you get any smell from those higher temps?
> 
> Do you really get it that hot 205 C 400F mine started to stink of burning plastic at about 190c with a real cooking thermometer measuring ,though it not a fan forced oven, that was with milk jugs that are opaque natural hdpe and a little black mixed in, the thing browned a little bit. Your blank looks so good.


I only get a smell toward the end which was 1 1/2 Hours for this block. Yes this cooked a 400 degrees. However this is a convection oven. I have a high quality digital oven thermometer that I check it with and this is an accurate temp. I open the shop doors when I get any smell at all so it is very well ventilated. I do not want to breathe it. 

My blank is scorched on the top It will look very different when I plane it down. I will post a before and after photo 

































The small nugget that squeezed out the side cut in half


----------



## Prototype.x

I'm trying this as soon as I get home

Thanks,

Cody


----------



## TSM

You guys are awesome. I've been taking copious notes and am going to try to low temp/slow cook/slow cool/no press method hopefully this weekend. Fingers crossed.


----------



## hainfelder

yeeha! this thread keeps on rocking!


----------



## Susi

Epoxy or no other glue that I know of sticks to polyethylene, HDPE or LDPE...any polyethylene is a natural release agent. It will come apart if you epoxy it.

I read where max temp of the melt was supposed to be 160C. Evidently that is wrong since you used higher temps. I sort of scortched the surface of one billet as in discolored it at 180C. I used a Taylor oven thermometer to check temp constantly placed inside the oven and viewed through the window (toaster oven, double element top and bottom, both "on"). I found that using different articles of supposed "2" HDPE resulted in one of two melts I've done so far, producting lots of unwanted bubbles as the plastic vaporized. What is marked recycle 2, from the evidence, sometimes is or contains other recycled plastics, deterring from melt consistency. Some HDPE chips didn't bond to each other well enough to suit me either so there is a huge variance in what is stamped HDPE or recycle 2. Some chips of different colores didn't fuze as well as I had hoped and I pressed the melt/billet with a 100lb anvil, clamping might press it better. Your idea of using ONLY milk cartons assures a consistent batch, well fuzed together, minimal bubbles if any and evidently milk carton plastic will endure temperatures which my HDPE from all sorts of articles from plastic buckets to bottle caps to whatevfer, didn't sustain higher temps approaching 180C.

Very nice work! Thank you for the input/ideas. If I do another HDPE project, I've done two billets, 4 SSs, I will use the same plastic throughout to gain a consistent melt that is well fuzed together.

"you'llshootyoureyeout" is a master at HDPE as well, he removes the melt from the original vessel and folds it over to mix it will, then presses it whereas I used the melt pan itself as the mold to press it in. My melt therefore turned out sort of layered in appearance instead of swirrelly and random, the later I prefer.

Chuck


----------



## devils son in law

I cut a thin cutting board in half and epoxied the halves together with West Systems epoxy a couple months ago and it seems to be holding up just fine.


----------



## Can-Opener

Susi said:


> Epoxy or no other glue that I know of sticks to polyethylene, HDPE or LDPE...any polyethylene is a natural release agent. It will come apart if you epoxy it.
> 
> I read where max temp of the melt was supposed to be 160C. Evidently that is wrong since you used higher temps. I sort of scortched the surface of one billet as in discolored it at 180C. I used a Taylor oven thermometer to check temp constantly placed inside the oven and viewed through the window (toaster oven, double element top and bottom, both "on"). I found that using different articles of supposed "2" HDPE resulted in one of two melts I've done so far, producting lots of unwanted bubbles as the plastic vaporized. What is marked recycle 2, from the evidence, sometimes is or contains other recycled plastics, deterring from melt consistency. Some HDPE chips didn't bond to each other well enough to suit me either so there is a huge variance in what is stamped HDPE or recycle 2. Some chips of different colores didn't fuze as well as I had hoped and I pressed the melt/billet with a 100lb anvil, clamping might press it better. Your idea of using ONLY milk cartons assures a consistent batch, well fuzed together, minimal bubbles if any and evidently milk carton plastic will endure temperatures which my HDPE from all sorts of articles from plastic buckets to bottle caps to whatevfer, didn't sustain higher temps approaching 180C.
> 
> Very nice work! Thank you for the input/ideas. If I do another HDPE project, I've done two billets, 4 SSs, I will use the same plastic throughout to gain a consistent melt that is well fuzed together.
> 
> "you'llshootyoureyeout" is a master at HDPE as well, he removes the melt from the original vessel and folds it over to mix it will, then presses it whereas I used the melt pan itself as the mold to press it in. My melt therefore turned out sort of layered in appearance instead of swirrelly and random, the later I prefer.
> 
> Chuck


That is what I thought until I saw this


----------



## Lacumo

Can-Opener said:


> All that said the labor to make the blanks is ridiculous. If it is not a labor of love than it is a wasted cause


This is the single most insightful, accurate and valid evaluation of DIY HDPE frame-making that I've ever seen posted. Can-Opener, you sure hit the nail on the head with that one! Commercial HDPE boards can be bought for reasonable prices, they're devoid of air pockets and amazingly easy to cut, work and shape. The DIY HDPE recycling board-making operation is definitely a major labor of love.

That being said... After a full season of various HDPE failures last winter, I'm still going to try it again this winter. If I can't come up with any successes this season, this will be my last winter spent trying to conquer the HDPE air pocket demon. If it goes that way, I'll probably just carve a small totem pole next winter...out of wood--not HDPE...


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Getting ready to melt!


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

After a year of hoarding bottle lids i have got 2.05 kg of hdpe as well as an old bucket and this old tool box!


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Here is some photos


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

More:


----------



## Urban Fisher

hainfelder said:


> yeeha! this thread keeps on rocking!


Yes I totally agree!! I have read this whole thread and it is still my favorite! The stuff you guys are producing is simply amazing!! I have made about five blanks myself. After the first one I have not had a single air bubble. I fill my mold, melt it, press it down really hard, add more (cause it shrinks) repeat about three times until the melted HDPE is at the top of the mold. Then remove from oven, add lid and clamp to put pressure on it till it cools. Normal heating time from start to finish is about two hours at 375 with about a hour cool down.
It is a labor of love but I love that you can be so creative with the colors, it's indestructible, and it's free! I have tons ready to melt of all kinds of colors and I have not spent a single dime on it!  
Cleaning all the raw material for me was a chore. But I learned to just cut the containers in half and run them through the dishwasher. The heating cycle doesn't melt it and they come out squeaky clean! Cutting it all up can also be a bitch, but I'm shopping for a used cheap paper shredder. Most paper shredders say they can handle credit cards. Most the milk jugs and laundry bottles I get are about the same thickness if not thinner than a credit card. I haven't actually got one yet, but I've seen a bunch in the paper (used) going for $5 to $20. So even if I do destroy it running plastic through it...no big loss to me. Figured it's worth the try. (I also started making boat handles for the little boats we build out of this stuff. Not done with the first ones yet, but they look promising! Free boat handles for me and all my friends!!)


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Finished!
Here are the results! 
Took a few attempts and each sheet was melted down at least twice 
Enjoy!


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

the video of my results is up if, i think that i made a few mistakes but hopefully that can help you learn from them


----------



## loneronin

another good and informative video by The Art Of Weapons!

I am also considering the possibility to use the plywood-and-weight to flatten the top of the melted HDPE. in the video that tachnique shows a lot of air bubbles but I'm wondering if the result would be the same if the plywood-and-weight is added later when the air bubbles have already risen out of the top of the melted HDPE.


----------



## roirizla

The Art Of Weapons said:


> the video of my results is up if, i think that i made a few mistakes but hopefully that can help you learn from them


You make me want to give it a go. Seriously inspirational and without a lie, everybody I show your videos too are impressed. Keep it up & good luck with your school work.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Thanks guys!
I think that as long as i leave the hdpe in the oven long enough before i add the plywood then it should be bubble free!
Also i was thinking about adding some sort of insulation on the tray so that the plastic cools more slowly 
I think that the best method would be to melt the hdpe like in the fast cooling method so thay you can get all of the nice marbling effect but then cool it slowly in the baking tray so that it is harder and better?
Thanks


----------



## mountain joe

You will get better results I believe, if you heat up the plywood to the same temperature as the plastic BEFORE you put the plywood on top of the plastic. It is a theory of mine though I have not tried it enough to know for sure.



The Art Of Weapons said:


> Thanks guys!
> I think that as long as i leave the hdpe in the oven long enough before i add the plywood then it should be bubble free!
> Also i was thinking about adding some sort of insulation on the tray so that the plastic cools more slowly
> I think that the best method would be to melt the hdpe like in the fast cooling method so thay you can get all of the nice marbling effect but then cool it slowly in the baking tray so that it is harder and better?
> Thanks


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

I think that this is a good idea


----------



## Nobodo

The Art Of Weapons said:


> Finished!
> Here are the results!
> Took a few attempts and each sheet was melted down at least twice
> Enjoy!


Cool video and awesome purple shag carpet!

You have produced a lot of great products and instructional videos. Especially considering your age you have truly accomplished a great deal already. I can't imagine what you'll be creating in 20 years!


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Haha thanks!


----------



## dracb

I went looking this afternoon for HDPE in the form of cutting boards at "Good Will" stores, Dollar stores and similar. There was very little plastic that was marked with the triangle around a "2" and most of that was in cases for used tools. There was an abundance of white plastic cutting boards from China but no real indication of what polymer they were made of. They were cheap enough that I bought a couple with the thought of trying to weld them together to get the thickness I need. On the way home I started thinking of how I might quickly and safely prove the polymer these boards are made of. The scheme I came up with was simple, very quick and safer than burning tests.

Common polymers have a wide range of densities. So by dropping a chip of the polymer in question into a glass of water one can separate HDPE (density 0.95-0.96), LDPE (0.92-0.94)and PP (,0.92) which will float from the denser polymers which will sink in water. Recovering the chip of questionable polymer drop it into a glass of rubbing alcohol (70% isopropol which has a density of 0.92) . If the chip floats it is PP. recover your chip of plastic and next drop it into a solution of 2 parts rubbing alcohol to 1 part water to get a solution with a density of 0.946666666666666666666666667) if the chip sinks it is most likely HDPE (density >0.95) where as LDPE (density0.92 to 0.94) will float. If you are still unsure change the rubbing alcohol/water solution to a 1:1 ratio to get a density of 0.96 and the plastic chip should float if it is HDPE.

With small chips this can be accomplished very easily starting with:

a. a table spoon full of water for the first test

b. two table spoons of rubbing alcohol for the second test

c. Mix the water and alcohol together for the third test

d. Add another spoon full of water to the mix if you want to run the forth test to see the HDPE float proving a density between 0.946 and 0.96.


----------



## WalkingSlow

Hi all this is my melt results ,The black didn't really melt into the other colours well, might need to leave it in at a hotter temp for longer


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Nice!


----------



## kevinpt

what would be the best way to make a block about 2 or 3 inches thick? i have collected a bunch of hdpe so far and am going to be melting it in the next day or so and im trying to make a large block about 3 inches thick and im trying to find the best way to do this.


----------



## WalkingSlow

Hi Kevinpt

Just read this thread from the beginning like I did , I couldn't find anything else on the www, this is the best DIY


----------



## stej

Just to encourage others and to show the thread again 

I have collected a lot of bottle caps and made some slingshot out of them.

Here is the latest I made.



























I like slingshots from bottle caps because they are so colorful and sometimes you also see the mark of the maker - Coca Cola, Pepsi, ... and that reminds you that the slingshot is fully recycled 

Btw next time I'll probably avoid using bottle caps that are almost transparent. Their melting temperature is probably higher than of the other colors - they melt, but not very well. They feel more like chewing gum after melting.


----------



## piggy

Hi newbie w/ question. I've been following this tread with great interest. It's very well done.

I seen a utuber where she piled lids up then heated them smushed and heated. Then twisted to mix colors heated some more then pressed into mold. Everyone else cuts there plastic into very small pieses. It seems to work as long as it gets melted. My concern and quetion is can u melt this stuff to much? I've seen it heated only enough to weld and heated to soft gooie some add color and press w/o stirring while others stir and make swirls. There appears to be no right or wrong. But it does seem that heating changes something so is less heat better? Does over heating make it brittle while not enough leaves voids and cracks. If heating, as long as its not burnt is ok then why chop it up more then need be?


----------



## Devil'sRival

piggy said:


> Hi newbie w/ question. I've been following this tread with great interest. It's very well done.
> 
> I seen a utuber where she piled lids up then heated them smushed and heated. Then twisted to mix colors heated some more then pressed into mold. Everyone else cuts there plastic into very small pieses. It seems to work as long as it gets melted. My concern and quetion is can u melt this stuff to much? I've seen it heated only enough to weld and heated to soft gooie some add color and press w/o stirring while others stir and make swirls. There appears to be no right or wrong. But it does seem that heating changes something so is less heat better? Does over heating make it brittle while not enough leaves voids and cracks. If heating, as long as its not burnt is ok then why chop it up more then need be?


You can definitely burn HDPE. I cut up a bunch of bubble bottles to make my daughter a slingshot and it wouldn't melt right so I upped the temperature. Mistake. The purple turned gray, the blue changed a little, and the whole thing burnt some before I noticed. It didn't melt together well either so I don't think all HDPE is created equal. I need to try folding and smashing while hot to see if that helps.

Its trial and error. Just use what you've learned as a guideline and go for it.


----------



## hainfelder

Yes - HDPE can be burnt

either by general *temperatures *too high in general or by radiation heat that hits the surface too hard.

(it will then generate also some smoke/fumes ... HDPE itself burns into CO2 ... so its not harmful ... any additives we do not know)

But most of the times, when you burn it you just loose a tiny bit of the surface ...

As a thermoplastic the *time *being heated shouldnt make a difference

And there are huge *differences in HDPE* ... first answers I got is that it has to do if its HDPE meant either for extrusion or injection molding. The latter being softer and easier to melt.

For example the blue HDPE of my catchbox barrel (see my avatar) didnt want to melt ... and there are other posts here of some HDPEs that are not mixing and fusing well together ...

As well i do not know if there is any loss in material strength or so if you *recycle and remelt* it many times.

Gonna try and find out more by asking my contacts in the plastics industry.


----------



## lexlow

wow, i been away for a while lol

the ole thread is booming, this thread has taken its own route, and has some amazing acheivments/fails, which has helped untold amounts of people to utilize scrap and make some top notch catties.


----------



## leon13

lexlow said:


> wow, i been away for a while lol
> the ole thread is booming, this thread has taken its own route, and has some amazing acheivments/fails, which has helped untold amounts of people to utilize scrap and make some top notch catties.


Hey lexlow welcome back good to see ya 
cheers


----------



## sharp eye

Here are a couple of HDPE just out of the toaster/oven, baked at 400F degree as explained in Can-Opener's tutorial.

I edited the post adding pictures with the after the cooling process. It looks like that in one of the HDPE block's I placed one piece of printed plastic on the batch, this will be clean off later.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Ah nice
Looking really good! 
What source of hdpe are u using


----------



## sharp eye

The Art Of Weapons said:


> Ah nice
> Looking really good!
> What source of hdpe are u using


I used empty 5 gallons buckets.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Cool, thanks
Are they just from a local hardware store?


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Also today I finished a little project that I have been working on.
It's a small Whittling knife forged from an old 10mm drillbit with a recycled handle from hdpe bottle lids.
Becuase of the shape of the cutting edges of the drill bit the hdpe binded really well to the knife handle
I have videoed the process and there will be a tutorial up next week.
Thanks.


----------



## sharp eye

The Art Of Weapons said:


> Cool, thanks
> Are they just from a local hardware store?


Walmart,HomeDepot, Lowes.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Ok thanks


----------



## DILLIGAF53

thanks to you "art of weapons" these are a few of my efforts.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

DILLIGAF53 said:


> HDPE CATTYS 002.JPGthanks to you "art of weapons" these are a few of my efforts.


Nice 
They look really good!


----------



## DILLIGAF53

Iv'e used the pressure mold method up till now, but after reading the posts on here, i'm trying a batch today using the slow cool method. hope it works, that's a lot of electricity wasted if it doesn't, my missus will kill me!!!!!! when you take into account the cost of electric and the time collecting and washing all the HDPE then the time spent casting the slabs etc, its just as cheap to buy slabs 20mm thick off ebay, but they are always in one colour only, and a bit boring. The patterns i see being produced on here and other sites are amazing.


----------



## piggy

There is a lot of good info, this may be the single best source for HDPE. I still have a few??? Art of weapons do u mostly use lids? If u also use bottles and such how small r u cutting your pieces? 
Eagle it's easy to see how u cut your buckets down. Your using good size pieces while others r shredding theirs. Have u pressed your melt in the pan or u just letting it slow cool with no weights? I would think at least some pressure would help w/ voids and bubbles. 
While I do have ?? It might be time to jump in and figure it out. Thanks for all the info and cool pics


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

piggy said:


> There is a lot of good info, this may be the single best source for HDPE. I still have a few??? Art of weapons do u mostly use lids? If u also use bottles and such how small r u cutting your pieces?
> Eagle it's easy to see how u cut your buckets down. Your using good size pieces while others r shredding theirs. Have u pressed your melt in the pan or u just letting it slow cool with no weights? I would think at least some pressure would help w/ voids and bubbles.
> While I do have ?? It might be time to jump in and figure it out. Thanks for all the info and cool pics


Yep I mostly use lids but am experimenting with gallon buckets now
I've also found that you only need to cut them small enough so that they will fit into the mold. I don't need to grind them up or anything


----------



## piggy

Thanks AOweapons. I think maybe originally a type of HDPE pellets were being used so when people started finding better or cheaper ways to make sheets, they ground or cut bottles to be like the pellets.
I'm going to try leaving it like your doing. Then I will adjust as needed. Maybe melting some chunks and adding as I go. Things like that. I would like mine mixed if I can twirl it while it's hot or if I need to twist it then melt some more. I Will try and keep notes and pics. I need to find some more colors to get started. 
Has anyone thought they cleaned a bottle, that had held something like a cleaning product, but had issues with it when it melted?


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

So some more experiments 
Recently I got a new router and a table to mount it on but that's not what I am here to talk about. 
Using the router and a 5/8 inch end mill I was able make a jig to flatten the surface of the hdpe almost like a thickness planer but 1 side at a time and a lot cheaper. Didn't take too long, only about 5 mins per side and would have been much faster if I had used a larger bit. The hdpe that I have tried it on was a half failed attempt with lots of air bubbles but the other one worked better and had much less bubbles. 
Thanks and I hope this helps


----------



## loneronin

great result The Art of Weapons! can you post a pic of your router and table?


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

Thanks


----------



## piggy

Art of weapon congrats on ur router, new tools are always fun. 
Your mix was a cool color combo do u mind sharing how u got it?
R u pressing it at all because your other method was very solid. The bigger pieces may create larger pockets. Where do u get so many lids? I can't find a number on most and when I do their ones and fours.


----------



## sharp eye

Art of weapons congratulations on your router and table, you did a good job flattering the hdpe surface with the router. I used a cheap orbital sander with 40 grits sand paper to rough flatten the hdpe surface without a problem.


----------



## The Art Of Weapons

thanks guys,

The method for these larger sheets of hdpe was the slow cooling method, with no press. that is why they are uneven. video is here






I managed to get all of the lids just from various drinks and milk cartons, it might be just where i am in the uk but almost every lid i find in marked as Hdpe.

thanks

Taow


----------



## Chuck Daehler

Nice work, nice SSs. Nice tutorial. There are several HDPE gurus on this forum too. I've only made 2 sheets/billets/blanks, used plastic bottles, caps, irrigation pipe, an old plastic chair, discards galore. One melt went fine, a black/grey/wihte (rugby: padres vs nuns aka urban camo) but a woodland camo came out really bubbly...some of the HDPE wasn't all HDPE...likely made of recycled plastics and some strange stuff got into it and vaporized causing bubbles.

The guaranteed way to do this without bubbles is to buy new cheap HDPE items in one of the "marts"...shop for new items that have not been made of recycled HDPE since HDPE is commonly recycled. How would one know if an item is not recycled? Likely by the feel and the factory which made it...some very good marks of stuff wouldn't be caught dead using recycled HDPE on name brand items. Also I go to a recycler often to sell shop scrap such as steel/iron and gathered plastic items and it pays for a tank of gasoline a few times a year. In the scrap pile I see loads of great HDPE stuff and they'll sell it to me cheap (more than they buy for of course but cheap).

you'llshootyoureyeout made a 1 milk carton slingshot.

While HDPE is an excellent working material and stout too, I am now going nuts on an idea a lot of members make here, using a very fat natural fork to work in lots of ergo and comfort, pinkey hole etc..

Check my wife's gallery under user name/profile Susi for our HDPE projects.

I especially like your mini! Keep 'em comin'

I've seen some of your nicely made vids on youtube, glad you joined the forum.. Actually, one of your vids got me going in HDPE!! It's really.nice to see young men engaged in such neat stuff as you are...aside from sling shots.

I might try using a gob of bottle caps given to me by a restaurant friend, your 180C, press as I did before, and slow cool method to assure no bubbles. Bottle caps love to trap air so yes the bubbles need to rise and be gone. Thank you for your research and tips. Since we can't get baking sheet here, I used aluminum foil sprayed with car upholstery silicone as a release agent, worked fine and any foil that does stick is removed in the sculpting process anyway...or in a planer.

This forum is prone to contests, why not have a monthly video contest for production skills? This young man, The Art of Weapons, would sure be nominated. You all might put his handle in the search field of youtube and be surprised at his many vids of interest.


----------



## hainfelder

about the *pressing* ...

in future i am going to press my HDPE blanks also ...

first for flat top surface ... and then i realised when making thicker blanks (up to 4 cm) that they start to warp and are not lying down flat any more


----------



## Carl.G

How critical is it to wash schampoo bottles? I mean its simple to wash everything but the smell... would that have any toxic effect on heating them up?


----------



## Greenfish

Hello all,

I have a question. I don't have a lot of milk cartons laying around, but I found a business that sells HDPE on amazon in sheets varying in thickness. could I just buy a sheet and start cutting out slingshots? If so, what thickness would you all recomend?

Thanks

~Greenfish


----------



## sharp eye

Greenfish said:


> Hello all,
> 
> I have a question. I don't have a lot of milk cartons laying around, but I found a business that sells HDPE on amazon in sheets varying in thickness. could I just buy a sheet and start cutting out slingshots? If so, what thickness would you all recomend?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> ~Greenfish


I prefer HDPE to be 1"thick if possible if not not less that 3/4" thick.


----------



## Cupajo

ash said:


> Lacumo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ash -- just to clarify your last point -- what are the caustic soda product(s) that it'd be good to use -- Borax?
> 
> 
> 
> I have no idea what is readily available. Borax might work, I've never tried it. If there's a caustic soda based cleaning product available at your local supermarket or hardware store, that might be the place to try. Rubber gloves and caution - it's not at all skin friendly.
> 
> Kerosene is another one and probably safer than caustic soda.
Click to expand...

In surfing through this tutorial ( I'm at page 14) I'm amazed at how little is mentioned about using extreme care in protecting oneself from breathing fumes from the mentioned chemistry, contact with said chems and the dust from the HDPE!! :hmm:

There is a video tutorial of great value on U tube by a young man posting as "Weapons of War" about all these subjects and another that demonstrates using a heat gun and moderate heat to peel labels!!

Fascinating subject Friends!!

Be safe!!


----------



## Lacumo

Cupajo said:


> In surfing through this tutorial ( I'm at page 14) I'm amazed at how little is mentioned about using extreme care in protecting oneself from ..... the dust from the HDPE!! :hmm: There is a video tutorial of great value on U tube by a young man posting as "Weapons of War" about all these subjects and another that demonstrates using a heat gun and moderate heat to peel labels!!


When I used a heat gun to peel off glued-on labels off I got the labels off but I was usually left with an unacceptable gummy residue (depending on the type of adhesive used), so what I hoped would be "the heat gun panacea" didn't prove to be a panacea for me. I used a variety of methods to get printed and glued-on labels off of HDPE liquid laundry detergent jugs (commercial label-removing products, scraping, hot water, etc) and in the end I gave up. It took too much time and effort to be worthwhile and after I gave up on that (IMO) hopeless quest, I just cut out and discard labelled areas. After doing that for a while, I just bought commercial HDPE boards. I found board remnants that were reasonably priced and saved me having to spend hours on end prepping HDPE, baking it for a couple hours and then pressing the board to squeeze out the trapped air pockets before the board cooled and hardened.

As for HDPE dust... I've sawed commercially-manufactured HDPE boards with hand saws, table saws, chop saws and bandsaws and I've shaped the roughed-out blanks with belt sanders and spindle sanders. Those boards produce less dust than any wood I've worked and wood dust is a lot finer than HDPE dust. I've found the limited dust HDPE produces to be nowhere near as problematic as wood dusts.


----------



## Cupajo

Lacumo said:


> Cupajo said:
> 
> 
> 
> In surfing through this tutorial ( I'm at page 14) I'm amazed at how little is mentioned about using extreme care in protecting oneself from ..... the dust from the HDPE!! :hmm: There is a video tutorial of great value on U tube by a young man posting as "Weapons of War" about all these subjects and another that demonstrates using a heat gun and moderate heat to peel labels!!
> 
> 
> 
> When I used a heat gun to peel off glued-on labels off I got the labels off but I was usually left with an unacceptable gummy residue (depending on the type of adhesive used), so what I hoped would be "the heat gun panacea" didn't prove to be a panacea for me. I used a variety of methods to get printed and glued-on labels off of HDPE liquid laundry detergent jugs (commercial label-removing products, scraping, hot water, etc) and in the end I gave up. It took too much time and effort to be worthwhile and after I gave up on that (IMO) hopeless quest, I just cut out and discard labelled areas. After doing that for a while, I just bought commercial HDPE boards. I found board remnants that were reasonably priced and saved me having to spend hours on end prepping HDPE, baking it for a couple hours and then pressing the board to squeeze out the trapped air pockets before the board cooled and hardened.
> 
> As for HDPE dust... I've sawed commercially-manufactured HDPE boards with hand saws, table saws, chop saws and bandsaws and I've shaped the roughed-out blanks with belt sanders and spindle sanders. Those boards produce less dust than any wood I've worked and wood dust is a lot finer than HDPE dust. I've found the limited dust HDPE produces to be nowhere near as problematic as wood dusts.
Click to expand...

Many thanks for your information Sir!!

My travels on this thread have me up to page 18 now and I was pretty sure someone had covered these things by now, but threw it out there anyway!!

I see "Art of War" has a number of contributions on this page (I had his name wrong, sorry!).

All the best to Ya All!!


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## Chuck Daehler

I found that temps above 170C scorched the HDPE that I used and from many items including milk and yogurt cartons, toys, odds and ends etc.. I measured my oven temp with a Taylor oven thermometer. It agreed with my oven temp regulator dial as well...so I'm pretty sure the temp measurement was right..above 170C I noted some browning. I made four HDPE SSs, one is my fav shooter, dunno why but I seem to hit better with it than any I made of any material. There are a number of tutorials on youtube and here about making recycled HDPE SSs...they were most helpful to me...thanks to caring folks who took the time to help all of us.

Soft drink bottle caps worked out grest for my two "Rainbows" made of them..one melt for the billet, two SSs. See Susi gallery for how they turned out...
http://slingshotforum.com/gallery/image/23015-susi-rainbow-challace-with-pieces/

The caps melted well, I didn't cut them up but put them flat side down so no air was trapped. I melted a layer of caps at a time to prevent trapped air/bubbles. I layered the melt in stages to make sure the caps were really melted well and fused solidly. You can't rush it..if you do you won't get good fusion and the billet will have weak spots, voids/bubbles and may break. I wish I'd have waited 45 minutes between layers to add the next layer of bottle caps for I did notice some areas which could have been fused better. You can repair bubbles with a soldering iron and bits of plastic...bore into the bubble or fault with the soldering iron to melt it well, then quickly put a small piece of plastic into the hole and melt it in with the soldering iron...do this until the fault is full. It works well for me.


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## funny1048

i have done lots of hdpe melting and experiments and found that you can get a very flat sheet of hdpe by making sure the mold is hot for example i used two pyrex pans one was a little bigger than the other and in the larger one i placed four objects that were the same height in each corner of the bowl in this case i had 4 3/8 inch nuts which were all the same height and would allow the plastic sheet to be even. after this i put the plastic scraps in and i let the smaller pyrex bowl sit on the plastic and i put a heavy weight in the smaller pyrex bowl to force the plastic to flatten after this i turned the oven to 340 and watched it when the smaller pyrex pan started sinking due to the weight the plastic is forced flat until it hit the 4 nuts which were sitting on the first pan after this i let it cool slowly for a few hours and then i had a very flat sheet with no wrinkles. the reason a lot of people have wrinkles in the sheet is because they used a wooden mold which was much colder than the the melted hdpe and suddenly cooling the hdpe in a cold mold causes the hdpe to wrinkle and shrink very unevenly even if its clamped the hdpe will always have wrinkles in a cold mold a hot mold doesnt require strong clamping it will work with a weight on top of the mold. plastic bottle caps do not require any kind of pressure because they are normally injection molded and have a lower molecular weight which allows it to flow into the mold almost like honey. bottle cap plastic is slightly weaker because of the lower molecular weight but it is still enough molecular weight to be considered high density and the strength is definetely weaker still strong enough to be used for slingshots plastic milk containers on the other hand use a much higher molecular weight than bottle caps because they are blow molded and is probably some of the highest denity hdpe that you will find in your house this type of hdpe will not flow into the mold without pressure and require you to do what i explained in the beggining this plastic is stronger than the bottle caps and therefore the slingshot can be thinner without losing strength

there is so much more information out there for hdpe but i chose not to mention it in this post because this post would simply be way too long

sorry about the formatting the text uploaded odd for some reaon


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## omanico

The Art Of Weapons said:


> thanks guys,
> 
> The method for these larger sheets of hdpe was the slow cooling method, with no press. that is why they are uneven. video is here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I managed to get all of the lids just from various drinks and milk cartons, it might be just where i am in the uk but almost every lid i find in marked as Hdpe.
> 
> thanks
> 
> Taow


Great video! thanks for sharing!!


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## Shelle Kelley

After watching art of war utube vids I have the bug and am saving plastic now, my kids want to make slingshots but longer term I am thinking I want to try and make "lumber".

Anyone have tips for cleaning plastic? Im currently trying to boil small pieces, but not much faith its going to come clean.


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## funny1048

the way i clean hdpe is by cutting the bottles into little pieces and putting the pieces in the washing machine set on heavy however i also had luck cleaning hdpe bottles by filling them with dish soap and then rinsing them out at least 5 times. also if you want to make lumber stick to the same hdpe type for example i would use milk containers and any other translucent white containers but dont mix detergent bottles in them because detergent bottles flow differently


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## Gruntbug

Lacumo said:


> I just tried that "Goo Gone" stuff to take the labels off of some laundry detergent (the red liquid Tide one and a couple others) HDPE jugs. I used the oven and grill cleaner Goo Gone stuff and it had no effect on the label at all. I let the first try sit for >20 minutes and nothing happened, so I let the second try sit for >1 hour and nothing happened. I looked at the Goo Gone website and they have an entire family of different products. Which is the right one to get those hard-to-kill labels off of those jugs? These labels aren't printed on like coffee or coffee creamer jugs -- they're nasty glued on things.


I'm only on page 13 of this thread and maybe soemone already said this in a later page, but I joined just so I could answer this... I am experimenting with HDPE also, but not to make slingshots, I'm making something else. But... the easiest way I have found to get labels off of bottles like Tide liquid and Cascade where it's not paper/stickers and it seems like it's printed on it or embedded even: a heat gun. Hit it with a heat gun and it shrivels and pulls right away easy as can be.Takes less than a minute for a large label. Wear oven mitts and be careful. I used a metal putty scraper to scrape the label off as it was heating up. It leaves dents and gouges in the plastic but who cares since it's going to be melted anyway  Here are some pics:

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/4pyom7slxm3ipbp/AACwIMfOk5VNWIDc0bA5yR4ka?dl=0


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## ghost0311/8541

What you make in sounds top secret.


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## Gruntbug

What you make in sounds top secret.

Ha - no, not top secret. I just haven't perfected it yet so don't want to spill the beans yet. I'll do a full writeup on my blog once it's finished and probably create a youtube video too. It's not slingshots though so probably not relevant to these forums - but - I have learned a lot about dealing with HDPE in the process. Just thought I'd share.

Here's another tip I have learned.... Many people use parchment paper while melting HDPE since it won't stick to it. That works great, but I got tired of replacing it all the time and cutting a new one all the time since it scorches and once it scorches, HDPE can stick to it. So, I happened upon this stuff: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00A2G4FOO It's only $10 and it comes in a 16.25"x23" roll and is super thin - it can be cut to size easily with scissors. It works GREAT and is reusable, which is awesome. I use it on the bottom of the pan I use in my toaster oven to melt HDPE and also in the bottom of my mold. I need to cut a piece too for the top of the mold where I compress it. I'm still using parchment for that. Anyway - hope this helps someone.


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## Gruntbug

TSM said:


> I wondered a few time if cutting up a bunch of aluminum foil to add the HDPE chips would look cool or not. At least then it would hide the foil that got stuck in the plastic to begin with.


Anyone tried this? I'm seriously thinking about trying it - adding in some small bits of alumium foil. Might not be good for slingshots since it may weaken the structure/bonds, but for my non-stressful application it should be just fine. Maybe I'll just try it and see what happens


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## Toolshed

I would think that ANY additives would muck up the structure....especially metallic....ESPECIALLY Bendy aluminum....

I bought myself a toaster oven at a thrift store (St. Vincent De Paul) here in Kentucky for about $5 to do this with....Haven't had a chance to get any melted yet with all the other projects going on, like bending slings for folks and doing aluminum metal casting....

Just a few observations that might help y'all along with supply. I remember one of the local pet stores was tossing out DOZENS of Kitty Litter pails, i guess from refreshing their cat pans....Too bad I didn't know about HDPE melting when I saw that, but I'm thinking of going there and purchasing all my cat supplies if they'll slip me the secret TIME they'll be doing it again....

I found paint buckets at various construction sites that haven't been too hard to clean out....Most times the dried paint just peels off.

I really like the look of the milk cartons though!!!


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## Gruntbug

Toolshed said:


> I would think that ANY additives would muck up the structure....especially metallic....ESPECIALLY Bendy aluminum....


Yeah - they should be fine for my use - bendy is ok  But for slingshots I would think they wouldn't be so good - too much stress on the structure to risk compromise.


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## funny1048

well one thing i thought might be really cool without affecting the structural integrity would be to mix glow in the dark powder with the molten hdpe this would give a really cool effect but it would have to be milk cartons since there translucent


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## Gruntbug

After reading this idea in a previous post I went to the three laundromats within a mile radius of my house. I went on a Saturday (today) at 1:00 and the trash cans inside were mostly empty (they all must have been recently emptied) but I still managed to get a bunch of great colors. The maroon, yellows, and greens are my favorites. It looks like the small Tides don't have the nasty beige inside so they might make for good orange HDPE. There's also two shades of orange Tide bottles. Here's my haul before I did anything to them:









I have since removed the (non-HDPE) tops and pour spouts and they're all in the dishwasher now. Next I'll heat gun the labels off and post a pic once they're ready to melt. Funny too - I managed to salvage a BUNCH of laundry detergent out of them too... amazing how much was in it. I probably got 16oz of detergent from all of them. Not that I need detergent, but hey - free detergent!

Thanks again for whoever suggested laundromats!

UPDATE: Another tip I just figured out - to remove any printed expiration dates on milk jugs or printed lot numbers on jugs or anything, a Magic Eraser takes it off super quick and easy. - no chemicals needed!


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## funny1048

wow what nice colors you found anyways you can use the tide bottles with the beige color in them what i did was mix the hdpe into a gooey blob with oven proof silicon gloves and kept kneading it eventually the colors mixed into a uniform reddish orange color in fact you can do this with blue and yellow hdpe to get green you just have to mix it a little longer


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## Gruntbug

funny1048 said:


> you can use the tide bottles with the beige color in them what i did was mix the hdpe into a gooey blob with oven proof silicon gloves and kept kneading it eventually the colors mixed into a uniform reddish orange color


Oh yeah, I have used the tide with beige and I got good results by twisting it. The one on the right is shampoo bottles and milk jugs.


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## funny1048

great job with both of them as for the tide one you could have twisted it even more and that would eliminate the areas of brighter red and darker red and make it into one solid color although when you have a large amount of hdpe it can definetely be tiring to the hands to mix it alot but both blocks look really good i always mix and twist the hdpe even if it is the same color because sometimes there can be microscopic cracks between the little flakes of plastic that are invisible to the eye but when the piece is strength tested the hdpe cracked and their was a weird tiled pattern between the crack almost like the individual flakes that were melted however mixing the hdpe completely eliminated this.


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## Chuck Daehler

I used aluminum foil as a liner for my mold, it peels off HDPE...so it does not bond well..making it weaken the billet and hence any frames fashioned from it. If the billet is to be used for stuff that does not endure stress, likely it would be OK to metal flake the mix but it would show up only if the melt was transparent..otherwise just aluminum scars all over the surface once it's sanded down...I don't think you'd like the result. On the edges of my billet where the foil was, I did rasp it down a bit just to see what the fragments of foil would do that were incorporated into the mix...ugly, peely.

You might try glitter...haven't but it may work, made of a plastic that has a higher melting point than HDPE perhaps hence it may survive the melting phase and reflect light. I don't think HDPE would bond to it, but I've never tried it...HDPE is odd stuff.

Nice billets you made...thanks for taking the time to share info and your work.

As far as cleaning goes, you might tumble the chips in detergent water with marbles to keep the chips separated...or smooth hard rocks. Commercial recyclers tumble chips in lye solution (NaOH or potassium hydroxide solution (KOH) and rinse well...it removes paper, grease and anything also soluble in water. I just avoided scrungy plastic since it's all over the place for free. The recycler I sell all plastic and metal to has mountains of HDPE, you might try a recycle place to select what you want and for cheap...a recycle yard sells it for less than 10cents a pound to factories which recycle it into product.


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## lexlow

nice slabs grunt! one of my favourite mixes is the saved HDPE shavings from the router table with the odd scraps thrown in.





  








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few old pics lol


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## funny1048

this may be a little off topic but i saw an article somewhere that said that peanut butter removes label residue on the container so i decided to try it and i was shocked at the results every little bit of glue on the container was gone when i rinsed the peanut butter off this worked extremely well and took only a minute or two compared to almost an hour of trying to get label residue off by scrubbing with soap and water


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## Gruntbug

funny1048 said:


> this may be a little off topic but i saw an article somewhere that said that peanut butter removes label residue on the container so i decided to try it and i was shocked at the results every little bit of glue on the container was gone when i rinsed the peanut butter off this worked extremely well and took only a minute or two compared to almost an hour of trying to get label residue off by scrubbing with soap and water


WD40 works for stickers too. The glue just disappears. Then you have to clean it up with soap and water, but you probably have to do that with peanut butter too 

Sent from my BN NookHD+ using Tapatalk


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## Gruntbug

Here's the laundromat haul all sans labels and tops removed.

Note: Do NOT run these through the dishwasher like I did. It took me 5 or 6 runs to get rid of the detergent from the dishwasher and dishes. I thought I had ruined the dishwasher.


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## funny1048

yeah the peanut butter did require some water to wipe it off and a quick scrub but the labels just simply disintegrated and it only took maybe 10 seconds to wash it off. i also found that any kind of vegatable oil works just as good. this has saved me so much time. and to wash the detergent out of them i just simply rinse them out in the sink since there already clean because of the bottles holding detergent


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## waxman

I have a question about using buckets for making sheet, here in aus all the buckets that I have looked at have no recycle sign, some seem to have been ground out of the mold before injection.

My question is, would these buckets be suitable to use if purchased from the same store. or would there be a delamination problem?


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## funny1048

i dont know what kind of plastic the buckets are but if you send a picture maybe i can determine if they will work


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## CYCLOPTICOPTIC

Here is a sample of red glitter added to hdpe sheet. Fresh out of mold, see what the inside looks like in a few days.


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## Brad37

How are you guys shaping the hdpe. I plan on using scroll saw, dremel with drum sander etc. is anyone using anything else in the process besides finish smoothing with sandpaper and hand.


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## lunasling

At the moment i use a hand scroll saw , files and plumbers sanding cloth


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## drigo

Buddy do you make a board out of the HDPE and then cut the slingshot or do you make the slingshot out of a mold?


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## Ghost Tracker

I just read all 36 (that's - thirty SIX!) pages of this thread. Superb explanations of extensive R&D (not to mention the undocumented occasional blistered finger and irritated spouse)! I'm new 'round he'ah but as old as dirt. Am a compulsive tinkerer, fearless prototypist & believe this is a terrifically interesting thread. Just a quick Thanks to ALL contributors. BTW, if anyone (or their wife) have cats, the plastic litter jugs are made of food-grade HDPE. The county recycling station will now likely wonder if our cats ...have died!


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## lexlow

been a short while since coming back here, glad this topic went so well since i started it, great example of team work from all.


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## hdusch

If the labels are plastic and peel off real easy I peel. For paper and or any goo, I just cut it away or use a belt sander to take it off. With the belt sander you loose some htpe, however it is quick and easy.


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## TCWoodchip

Hi Guys! Like many on here I've read all 36 pages of this thread and I'm totally impressing with collective problem solving going on. I'm not really a slingshot guy myself, I'm just interested in the plastic processing and you all seem to be on the cutting edge. I'm interested in a lot of applications but mostly turning it on my wood lathe.

Anyway, I did 10 or so runs in a plywood mould with clamps and just took a swing at the long bake & slow cool method tonight. I'm having the typical issues with the wood mould but I think they will be ok. I haven't turned all my blocks to see what's inside but a couple of them turned nice.

The long bake on the other hand was mostly a fail. I did a batch with an old clear-ish 5 gallon bucket (really dingy but I did wipe it down pretty good), a small batch of junk (all the detergent bottle labels, some LDPE, a ziplock, and a few random off cuts), and a batch of US Gov issue canteen bottles.

I put them in for 90 min. at 400 F then dropped the temp 25 every 10 min.

Results: 5 gallon bucket was pretty scorched and had visible bubbles top and bottom. My junk turned out ok but would have had a lot of voids if it weren't for the LDPE that runs a lot more and filled in. The labels look pretty cool and seem to have fused with all the other plastic (obviously only used plastic labels no paper). The canteen bottles barely melted together. They are labeled #2 but they sure don't seem to melt at the same temps as everything else.

What do you guys think? Did the bucket scorch and still have bubbles because it was weathered and dirty or did I do something wrong? Why do you suppose my junk batch didn't "run" very well except for the LDPE? I didn't put any weight or anything on it but I wasn't worried about warping so I figured it would be ok and it seems like that might trap any bubbles at the surface.

I have a ton of ideas and questions but I'll finish with this for now. Do you all have any suggestions for moulding HDPE in a cylinder shape and still getting rid of the air pockets? I just did a couple on a cookie sheet at 350F until malleable, rolled them to shape, pressed them into a pipe by hand, laid the pipe horizontal and heated for another 10-15 min at 370, then clamped a wood plunger in each end. I haven't cut into them yet but I would imagine I still have air pockets. With the mould being heated a little the surface came out a lot smoother than with the wood mould.

Thanks, -Travis


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## Jolly Roger

I have several little slingshots made from recycled HDPE from Six Sick Sheep on eBay. They are great and very attractive since he used several different colors in the mix.

Yes, it is an old post but why not add something to it since someone was looking at it and it came up on topics being viewed now.


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## TCWoodchip

There's a Facebook group called HDPE DIY. They don't have many members and could really benefit from the wealth of knowledge you guys have accumulated here.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/866907613385172?ref=bookmarks


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## Ridge Runner

I just bought a new 12x18x0.75" cutting board on amazon for $17 for those wanting a simpler source. I anticipate getting 10 or 12 frames from it. That said, I think I will save my scraps to have available for re-forming.


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## Sticks-n-stones

Wow, that was a long read but well worth it. Thank you for sharing this, I learned a lot and may try my hand at some homemade frames myself.


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## gunslingster

This is a great thread, thanks


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