# Tying on bands and pouches



## Hermit (Feb 7, 2014)

Good morning -

Received an order from GZK yesterday; fast, 5 days from China. Gonna try tying on my own pouches. I have been watching many videos on how to do this which appears to be relatively simple. My question is do I wrap and tuck? Constrictor knot? I have seen videos with guys using a couple of overhand knots. Are certain knots better than others? I did get the tying jig crystal string and the amber belt.

Thanks

Rich


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

You have to do your own experiments to decide which tying method works for you. I would suggest that it is more important to find how much pre-stretch you need before tying. A good pouch tying jig is helpful here.

I use a constrictor knot and embroidery thread. Very lightweight.


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## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

Rich, I agree with Grandpa, that you have to find what works best for you.

Since you have the Amber Belt, I would suggest to use it. That is all I use and love the stuff. No fancy knots to fiddle with. Just two overhand knots and your done.

Using amber belt, wrap 3x keeping moderate stretch with the amber band. After 3 wraps, tie 2 knots, and trim the excess above the knot. After you tie both sides of the pouch, trim the latex band down to the amber belt wrap to remove the dead weight of the extra latex. A light weight tie means lest wasted energy and more band energy goes into the ammo.


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

I also agree with the guys above, but I use the crystal string for the pouches, wrapped 7 times for a heavy band set, 4 or 5 for a light band, then tie a double square knot and cut the excess at the knot. I use the Amber Belt to tie to the slingshot.


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## Hermit (Feb 7, 2014)

Thanks Guys - appreciate the responses! Makes my life easier..

Rich


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## Konrad (May 2, 2020)

How are you Hermit?

This for the pouches, I use clamps on a slingshot rifle.

I tried wrap and tuck (messy, weak and heavy), Constrictor knots (short band life and weak with the wrong thread), cuffed Constrictor knots (too heavy) but this was the best I ever saw, Strong, light, super neat and tidy, fast and long lasting. I use a 0.8mm to 1.5mm crystal cord (or stretch magic) on a slingshot rifle that shoots 116m/s (380.58fps) 8mm steel.

Use different amount of wraps according to the thickness of the crystal cord, In this videos she does 7, then fishing line and six. Pull very tightly as your doing it. I haven't had any fail when done properly.






I highly recommend it.

My 260th post.

Salutations from Comrade Konrad.


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## Hermit (Feb 7, 2014)

I'm doing fine Conrad. Excellent video - she makes it look so easy. I cut and made my very first band this morning and discovered I have more thumbs than I need! I was all thumbs for the first time around. Hardest part was after rolling the band material was getting it into the pouch. Finally I grabbed an awl to try and make the hole a bit bigger by stretching it out. After many attempts I finally got the band in the little hole. Used a GZK band tying jig - works like a charm. Installed bands on a Feihu. Works fine. Have a great day!

Rich


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## Konrad (May 2, 2020)

Lol (laughing out loud), I went thru heaps of rubber before I had it all sorted. I use forceps or tweezers to pull thru the pouch hole. Good to hear hang in there mate.


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## Trap1 (Apr 12, 2020)

Reed Lukens said:


> I also agree with the guys above, but I use the crystal string for the pouches, wrapped 7 times for a heavy band set, 4 or 5 for a light band, then tie a double square knot and cut the excess at the knot. I use the Amber Belt to tie to the slingshot.


Reed, Is your 'square knot' the the same knot I know as a 'reef knot'? Also, as Palmettoflyer mentions a 'double overhand knot' above depending where we are in this world this could also be the same knot depending how it's tied..mibbe just different terminology?


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

Trap1 said:


> Reed Lukens said:
> 
> 
> > I also agree with the guys above, but I use the crystal string for the pouches, wrapped 7 times for a heavy band set, 4 or 5 for a light band, then tie a double square knot and cut the excess at the knot. I use the Amber Belt to tie to the slingshot.
> ...


Reef knot is the same as the square knot. Double overhand is different. Very simple though. Check animatedknots,com


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

Yup, right thread over left, pull tight, then left thread over right, pull tight, then right over left again and cut the string as close as it can be cut, right at the knot.


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

Reed Lukens said:


> Yup, right thread over left, pull tight, then left thread over right, pull tight, then right over left again and cut the string as close as it can be cut, right at the knot.


Exactly what I was doing with amber belt, with very good results. Been messing with the constrictor again and I think I got the correct pre-stretch and knot tightness down. So far very good results.


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## Harry Knuckles (Sep 28, 2020)

I just found this video a few days ago. The last set I made using this method in the hope to increase band life. Has anyone else tried this?


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

Harry Knuckles said:


> I just found this video a few days ago. The last set I made using this method in the hope to increase band life. Has anyone else tried this?


That's probably the best amber belt method I've ever seen! If I'm not happy with my current method I will be trying that for sure!


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

I started off using the amber belt on the pouch, but I got some of the Crystal String in with my last order and you get a ton of it on the roll when compared to the amber belt. It stretches really well and is a lot lighter then the amber belt. Don't get me wrong... I can afford the buck for the Amber Belt, but it's the weight of it when compared to the Crystal String that made me switch. When I break a band it's usually an inch in front of the tie, so I'm not getting any wear from the string, its just the taper wearing out. I wrap the pouch 4 to 7 times with the string on doubled up heavy pull band sets and I'm shooting well over the 400fps range with as much power as I can handle on some of my slingshots. I use the amber belt to tie the bands to the slingshot and it does work great, but for the pouch, I'm sold on the string because less weight = more speed at the pouch.


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## Trap1 (Apr 12, 2020)

StringSlap said:


> Trap1 said:
> 
> 
> > Reed Lukens said:
> ...


Thanks! A thought this wis a double granny knot one top of the other. It's no! Its similar tae some fishing knoats we use ower here! Guid site!.. some knoats I've no seen before. Will try it next time A'm oan bands.



Reed Lukens said:


> Yup, right thread over left, pull tight, then left thread over right, pull tight, then right over left again and cut the string as close as it can be cut, right at the knot.


T

Thanks Reed..that'sa reef &a ½ tae me..which Iis exactly whit A've bin using with crystal string. A use just the ordinary reef or w&tuck with amber belt depending on hoo A'm feelin


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

I bought a few bags of pouches when I ordered some elastic, but the holes on the pouches seem really small. I suppose I could force a corner thru and grab it with tweezers, but I won't have much "play" to get the fold of the band really clean. Do I just have too small of pouches, ie are they meant for thin bands? I bought a few bands from Fowler and they are perfect. Or can i just make the hole bigger I suppose.

Also 2nd question. I bought a cutting board/band cutting template, but what is the best way to keep the latex from moving when your are cutting it? Is there a cutting board available that has a better "sticki-ness" to the latex so it does not slide around? The self healing matt I got from amazon was 5 star..but is there a brand someone could recommend...I feel like i need three arms/hands when I am trying to cut a really perfect band.


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

eaglerockdude said:


> I bought a few bags of pouches when I ordered some elastic, but the holes on the pouches seem really small. I suppose I could force a corner thru and grab it with tweezers, but I won't have much "play" to get the fold of the band really clean. Do I just have too small of pouches, ie are they meant for thin bands? I bought a few bands from Fowler and they are perfect. Or can i just make the hole bigger I suppose.
> 
> Also 2nd question. I bought a cutting board/band cutting template, but what is the best way to keep the latex from moving when your are cutting it? Is there a cutting board available that has a better "sticki-ness" to the latex so it does not slide around? The self healing matt I got from amazon was 5 star..but is there a brand someone could recommend...I feel like i need three arms/hands when I am trying to cut a really perfect band.


Your mat is most likely fine. Try this... Hold the rotary cutter in a hammer grip with the blade pointing down. As if you were going to plunge a knife into the top of a box. Apply pressure straight down and make either a draw cut towards you (how I prefer) or a push cut away from you. Don't make the cut from side to side. I cut with my left hand, so I angle the top of the template slightly right in order to get good alignment for the cut. Hold the template with your other hand close to the band you are cutting and move it over as you progress. Watch your fingers! Place the rotary blade into the template straight down, not at an angle like if you were cutting a pizza. Remove it straight up. Make the cut with moderate downward force and in one smooth motion. Just be sure to pay attention and don't let the template move between cuts. You'll get the hang of it but unfortunately you may bugger up a few. Cut those into strips and use to attach bands to frames.


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

Thanks for the tip. Yeah...I was kinda cutting it like i do a pizza...And the cutter at an angle not directly over it but from left to right......I will try that technique thanks.


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## Harry Knuckles (Sep 28, 2020)

When I cut with my template I always do 2 layers of latex. Just cut 2 sheets to the length you need and rub on a thin layer of water, when you press them together they stick pretty well. Then you cut your bans as per Stringslap prescribes. Keep the layered match sets organized because they will always be identical. I think GZK has a video somewhere.


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

I saw you can just make the hole bigger with a drill which I will try...but I also just bought some more Fowler/Warrior pouches anyway....I don't need that many, and I like those a lot.



eaglerockdude said:


> I bought a few bags of pouches when I ordered some elastic, but the holes on the pouches seem really small. I suppose I could force a corner thru and grab it with tweezers, but I won't have much "play" to get the fold of the band really clean. Do I just have too small of pouches, ie are they meant for thin bands? I bought a few bands from Fowler and they are perfect. Or can i just make the hole bigger I suppose.
> 
> Also 2nd question. I bought a cutting board/band cutting template, but what is the best way to keep the latex from moving when your are cutting it? Is there a cutting board available that has a better "sticki-ness" to the latex so it does not slide around? The self healing matt I got from amazon was 5 star..but is there a brand someone could recommend...I feel like i need three arms/hands when I am trying to cut a really perfect band.


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## Trap1 (Apr 12, 2020)

eaglerockdude said:


> Thanks for the tip. Yeah...I was kinda cutting it like i do a pizza...And the cutter at an angle not directly over it but from left to right......I will try that technique thanks.


Yin thing I've noticed with these band cutting jigs is that the when ye cut a band width & move intae the 2nd or 3rd channel widths the strips are mair easily deflected by the blade, finger pressure or baith. I found I was getting some variable widths on the taper in the middle channels when trying to match bands & I was taking care ensuring even pressure & stability along band length when cutting, very much like Slingstrap's process above. (If I use this jig again I will just use the 1st width at each side & move the jig accordingly.)

I bought a taper rule (Universal Taper Template) & have had much better results with this & noo nae scrap.



Harry Knuckles said:


> When I cut with my template I always do 2 layers of latex. Just cut 2 sheets to the length you need and rub on a thin layer of water, when you press them together they stick pretty well. Then you cut your bans as per Stringslap prescribes. Keep the layered match sets organized because they will always be identical. I think GZK has a video somewhere.


The doublin up method Harry mentions is also worthwhile if ye're cutting a guid few band sets.


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## cromag (Jan 17, 2021)

I'm new to this game but enjoy the route of getting there. Making bands , tying your own pouches on and making your own frames seems to be a big part of the adventure , like tying your own fishing flies or reloading shells. I have made and tied on a couple of pouches using old dacron bow string material , it's waxy and very strong. Seems to work well. I utilized an old clamp by reversing the movable jaw to make this pouch tying jig. clamp the bar in a vise and it works like a charm


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

cromag said:


> I'm new to this game but enjoy the route of getting there. Making bands , tying your own pouches on and making your own frames seems to be a big part of the adventure , like tying your own fishing flies or reloading shells. I have made and tied on a couple of pouches using old dacron bow string material , it's waxy and very strong. Seems to work well. I utilized an old clamp by reversing the movable jaw to make this pouch tying jig. clamp the bar in a vise and it works like a charm


That was an excellent idea! Great Job :headbang:


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

cromag said:


> I'm new to this game but enjoy the route of getting there. Making bands , tying your own pouches on and making your own frames seems to be a big part of the adventure , like tying your own fishing flies or reloading shells. I have made and tied on a couple of pouches using old dacron bow string material , it's waxy and very strong. Seems to work well. I utilized an old clamp by reversing the movable jaw to make this pouch tying jig. clamp the bar in a vise and it works like a charm


Great idea! Be careful with the dacron. It's tough stuff and I would imagine it will easily cut into your bands. Butchers twine is hard to beat. I found some 1mm round waxed cotton cord that I really like. If your are using a constrictor knot, you don't have to pull as tight as you would think.


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

Some observations: So I was finally able to cut my first bands and tie the pouches.

1. Not sure I like the crystal string. Not that it does not hold, but it seems like because of its thinness it will cut into the latex...anyone have this issue?

2. The amber string is just great stuff.

Question. As far as putting the end of the band thru the pouch hole, I found it tough to either "roll or fold" the end before sticking thru...I ordered some hobby tweezers(there were cheap) to maybe help pull it thru, but the nature of the latex makes it a bit goofy. Or do you fold/roll after sticking thru?

Does anybody have any opinion on what should be done with the end of the latex that goes thru the pouch? For sure, a nice roll looks good(the bands I got from Fowler have that)...but I was having so much trouble..i just put the corner thru, and tied them with whatever nature squeeze happened with that..I know that was lazy and will keep trying, but I wondered what is the best practice in that regard.

Thanks in advance.


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## Hermit (Feb 7, 2014)

Hi Dude - I am also new at making my own bandsets and ran onto the same issue. I have an awl - the kind that might come with a set of tools. I use GZK pouches that centers the ammo and darn near impossible to squeeze in the latex, even tubes. I will say those pouches are tough as hell, so expanding them a bit with the awl won't hurt them. You could also try an ice pick, but I found the awl is just a tad thicker and works great. I get it started thru the hole and finish with tweezers or forceps.

I also use amber string, don't have any issues yet with the crystal string.

Isn't this just the best hobby ever?!

Rich


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

Hello!

When I ordered latex from GZK I ordered several pouches just at random, not really knowing what I wanted or liked...but like u said...they are very stiff, and the holes are tiny except for the bigger ones. I doubt I will use any of them.

I bought some pouches from Fowler's Makery and Mischief, and so far those are my favorites. Some sort of soft microfiber. I also bought some Warrior(so much hype) from etsy but have yet to use them..I made sure the holes on them are large enough to make running latex easier!

So far I enjoy the hobby. Its a daily challenge to refine your form and accuracy, and also its pretty cheap.

Hi Dude - I am also new at making my own bandsets and ran onto the same issue. I have an awl - the kind that might come with a set of tools. I use GZK pouches that centers the ammo and darn near impossible to squeeze in the latex, even tubes. I will say those pouches are tough as ****, so expanding them a bit with the awl won't hurt them. You could also try an ice pick, but I found the awl is just a tad thicker and works great. I get it started thru the hole and finish with tweezers or forceps.

I also use amber string, don't have any issues yet with the crystal string.

Isn't this just the best hobby ever?!

Rich


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

Bend a paperclip into a narrow loop. Stick that through the pouch hole. Stick a small amount of the band into the loop and then pull it up through the pouch hole.

A suggestion... Pick a frame (might be some trial and error here), a type of ammo, a suitable pouch and one type of elastic. Then shoot that combo a LOT! Get the fundamentals down. Get yourself to where you can keep your shots inside of a paper plate. Then when you try other things you will know what works and what doesn't. Speaking from personal experience, making too many changes before you know the fundamentals will frustrate you and you'll end up chasing your tail and not improving as quickly as you should. Of course, your mileage may vary!


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

This is a decent video. He uses the jig to "stretch" the hole open a bit....makes sense.

Stringslap...YES for sure. when you first start, you go thru a buying spree...but once you start practicing everyday....stance/draw/references/aiming...and then introducing different size pouches and bands...as well as sling shots...you quickly realize all the configuration permutations involved....which is probably what a lot of us like about the hobby..


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## Trap1 (Apr 12, 2020)

StringSlap said:


> Bend a paperclip into a narrow loop. Stick that through the pouch hole. Stick a small amount of the band into the loop and then pull it up through the pouch hole.
> 
> A suggestion... Pick a frame (might be some trial and error here), a type of ammo, a suitable pouch and one type of elastic. Then shoot that combo a LOT! Get the fundamentals down. Get yourself to where you can keep your shots inside of a paper plate. Then when you try other things you will know what works and what doesn't. Speaking from personal experience, making too many changes before you know the fundamentals will frustrate you and you'll end up chasing your tail and not improving as quickly as you should. Of course, your mileage may vary!


A' was goin' tae suggest a dental pick tool which is what A've been usin' (fur the oadd time) A' need it. Bit the paperclip loop by StringSlap sounds a faur bettur way tae go here & A'll certainly be convertin


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

I just take the tubes off the forceps, put them through the hole, open'em up, grab the band and pull it thru. I cut off at least 1/4", after tying, so it's not damaging the important parts. Then either fold or roll the band under pressure. I use the amber belt to tie to the forks for the strength, and I use the crystal string on the pouch because it's a lot lighter.


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> I would suggest that it is more important to find how much pre-stretch you need before tying
> .


Grandpa grumpy or anyone else, how does one determine prestretch before tying please?
THX
Ukj


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## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

ukj said:


> Grandpa Grumpy said:
> 
> 
> > I would suggest that it is more important to find how much pre-stretch you need before tying
> ...


If you think it might be too much, then it is too much. Only need a small amount of stretch before tying the pouch end. Too much stretch when tying will cause early failure. After you make a few, you will get the feel for it. No magic measurements.


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## papabearscout (Aug 4, 2020)

NEED A LITTLE HELP ON TYING BANDS TO POUCHES!

I was doing fine using a tying jig to stretch the bands prior to tying to the pouch. HOWEVER, I recently learned there is a CORRECT orientation for the bands when they are tied to the pouch. The band should be tied with a parallel orientation, that is the band and the pouch are on same axis when shooting OTT and the bands are tied perpendicular to the POUCH when shooting TTF.

This does not make sense to me can someone please set me straight on this. This is all related to tying the bands to the pouch.

THANKS VERY MUCH FOR ALL YOUR HELP AND COMMENTS.


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

papabearscout said:


> NEED A LITTLE HELP ON TYING BANDS TO POUCHES!
> I was doing fine using a tying jig to stretch the bands prior to tying to the pouch. HOWEVER, I recently learned there is a CORRECT orientation for the bands when they are tied to the pouch. The band should be tied with a parallel orientation, that is the band and the pouch are on same axis when shooting OTT and the bands are tied perpendicular to the POUCH when shooting TTF.
> 
> This does not make sense to me can someone please set me straight on this. This is all related to tying the bands to the pouch.
> ...


So PBS are you seeking a 'why' this is done or 'how' is this done? The why is to achieve flat band utopia by the bands having an untwisted and unencumbered connection from pouch to fork in both the TTF or the OTT setup. I put that answer together based on seeing what they look like when I am shooting and notes taken from here on the Forum. Also, I just went to YouTube and search 'tying flat bands in the OTT configuration' also same question with TTF in the search. I think you get not just the best answer but also an easy tutorial. Please let me know if this helps.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

Here is a link.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

I will also also also agree with the great advice from many above. I have tried many different methods from waxed button thread with constrictor knots to tying tape to crystal string. All do well. It's mostly about paying attention to detail and doing it right.

I am currently doing it similar to what is shown the video posted above, although I don't go around as many times.


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## eaglerockdude (Dec 27, 2020)

Actually I was checking my latest "pouch tie" just to confirm what I was saying, and to my surprise, I have each hole of the pouch tied differently! Yet...my latest shooter is my most accurate and my number one(a Fowler Hornet)....so...I may retie one of the ends...but I am having no issues at all...I can hit what I want...so maybe its not that big a deal anyway....I will just leave it be.


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