# Hapkido



## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)




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## Gregor-Y (Aug 10, 2011)

you practice this martial art?


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Yep, and others. I study JKD.


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## Gregor-Y (Aug 10, 2011)

I love philosophy of JKD.
congrats


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

where do you study hapkido whip crack?

marcus sr


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Just from books and people I've met. I went to school in London for a couple of lessons, but that was a few years back. Now I just use it when I fancy, or when I see something new, and want to hurt a close friend.


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## Xidoo (Aug 14, 2010)

I like Muay Thai, I think that it is one of the best combat art. Very effective and you do not play a lot time trying to defet you adversary. I practice Kung-fu and Karate, but Muay Thai is way better.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

I like Muay Thai, especially the elbow work, but I don't think it's better.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Just from books and people I've met. I went to school in London for a couple of lessons, but that was a few years back. Now I just use it when I fancy, or when I see something new, and want to hurt a close friend.


I'd have to agree with Xidoo on this one. Muay Thai is much more straight forward with fewer concepts to learn and less physical entanglement/grappling with your opponent, which can be counter-productive.

Quite a while back I studied with Grand Master Peter Urban at his New York Goju Karate Dojo. I felt that something was lacking from the system. I found what it was lacking in Muay Thai and Hooters.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Grappling, is better for self-defence, I feel; Muay Thai, take a lot more fitness, and can't be translated across size and weight, so easily. And you might be surprised, though it won't be for everyone, the psychological way of approaching the body, set out in Hapkido, a lot of people understand quite instinctively.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Grappling, is better for self-defence, I feel; Muay Thai, take a lot more fitness, and can't be translated across size and weight, so easily. And you might be surprised, though it won't be for everyone, the psychological way of approaching the body, set out in Hapkido, a lot of people understand quite instinctively.


My friend, I find that the art of "Glocking" has worked very well for me since 1974.

I certainly, as always, respect your opinion.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

THWACK! said:


> Grappling, is better for self-defence, I feel; Muay Thai, take a lot more fitness, and can't be translated across size and weight, so easily. And you might be surprised, though it won't be for everyone, the psychological way of approaching the body, set out in Hapkido, a lot of people understand quite instinctively.


My friend, I find that the art of "Glocking" has worked very well for me since 1974.

I certainly, as always, respect your opinion.
[/quote]
Mutal respect understood; though like the sword, the gun is only as good as the man behind it.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Grappling, is better for self-defence, I feel; Muay Thai, take a lot more fitness, and can't be translated across size and weight, so easily. And you might be surprised, though it won't be for everyone, the psychological way of approaching the body, set out in Hapkido, a lot of people understand quite instinctively.


My friend, I find that the art of "Glocking" has worked very well for me since 1974.

I certainly, as always, respect your opinion.
[/quote]
Mutal respect understood; though like the sword, the gun is only as good as the man behind it.[/quote]

...and the calibre : )


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

THWACK! said:


> Just from books and people I've met. I went to school in London for a couple of lessons, but that was a few years back. Now I just use it when I fancy, or when I see something new, and want to hurt a close friend.


I'd have to agree with Xidoo on this one. Muay Thai is much more straight forward with fewer concepts to learn and less physical entanglement/grappling with your opponent, which can be counter-productive.

Quite a while back I studied with Grand Master Peter Urban at his New York Goju Karate Dojo. I felt that something was lacking from the system. I found what it was lacking in Muay Thai and Hooters.
[/quote]
as a side note peter urban refused to use japanese wordings for techniques in his dojo,quoting,why should we, we won the war lol he was also way ahead of his times with his street combat methods,not hitting for points so to speak.on the subject of muay thai ,it is actually a full range art and grappling does play a major part in the true art,not the watered down stuff us westerners get,you can see this in a true fight at the lumpinee stadium as you can use throws and takedowns to engage or disable an opponent and many a bout has been finished this way.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

marcus sr said:


> Just from books and people I've met. I went to school in London for a couple of lessons, but that was a few years back. Now I just use it when I fancy, or when I see something new, and want to hurt a close friend.


I'd have to agree with Xidoo on this one. Muay Thai is much more straight forward with fewer concepts to learn and less physical entanglement/grappling with your opponent, which can be counter-productive.

Quite a while back I studied with Grand Master Peter Urban at his New York Goju Karate Dojo. I felt that something was lacking from the system. I found what it was lacking in Muay Thai and Hooters.
[/quote]
as a side note peter urban refused to use japanese wordings for techniques in his dojo,quoting,why should we, we won the war lol he was also way ahead of his times with his street combat methods,not hitting for points so to speak.on the subject of muay thai ,it is actually a full range art and grappling does play a major part in the true art,not the watered down stuff us westerners get,you can see this in a true fight at the lumpinee stadium as you can use throws and takedowns to engage or disable an opponent and many a bout has been finished this way.[/quote]

Yup, he was his own man, doing things the Peter Urban way, in defiance to tradition.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Gosh! it's been such a long time since I've seen any Muay Thai, I'd completely forgotten about its takedowns. If I remember right though, there isn't much ground work. Don't think I've heard of Peter Urban, might just be the length of time though.


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

only time groundwork would be feasable is in a 1 on 1 situation ,if the fella has his mates about would you really want to go to the floor??.and maybe have one of his said mates dance a 56 step kata on your head??


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## Gregor-Y (Aug 10, 2011)

JKD is the best way, but i like too much my Master Han Chun Tec and i cant give up Tae Kwon Do ! He's a big man. Off course all martial art are great, you only need to find one that suits you best. From a philosophical point of view, physical and spiritual.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

Master Wun Hung Lo was a favorite of the ladies.


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

THWACK! said:


> Master Wun Hung Lo was a favorite of the ladies.


along with his missus WUN FUN LAY


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

marcus sr said:


> Master Wun Hung Lo was a favorite of the ladies.


along with his missus WUN FUN LAY[/quote]

Sorry, but history has recorded that Wun Fun Lay was his mistress, not his missus. You probably just read it too quickly. His wife's name was Nips Hung Lo.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

marcus sr said:


> only time groundwork would be feasable is in a 1 on 1 situation ,if the fella has his mates about would you really want to go to the floor??.and maybe have one of his said mates dance a 56 step kata on your head??


haha, I totally agree.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Ahhhh, but if the first guy takes you down and you can't handle him... you don't have to worry about his mates... he'll take you himself.
JKD is interesting because of it's all inclusiveness of what's perceived as effective concepts, but Combat Hapkido has the same ideals AND includes syllabus in BJJ from the Gracies.
I have black belts in 5 different martial arts and Combat Hapkido is my favorite because of it's straight forward approach in covering a lot of different circumstances and building on a firm foundation of basic techniques to handle those circumstances.... I've also found that when dealing with the criminal element, things can go awry pretty quickly unless you can control yourself, and building a system off of basic techniques that come to you by automatic/conditioned reflex is the best way to go.


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

Fair comments Bill but a street situation is far to unpredictable to go to the ground,regardless of your ability unless its a 1 on 1,you say if you cant handle him and he takes it to the ground you dont have to worry about his mates?again a good comment but regardless of the fact it happens.if you read my post on the pfs you will see i hold dan grades in kaeshi ryu ju jitsu as well as an instructorship in hook wrestling known i believe in the us as catch,I also have experience in greco roman,freestyle as well as judo and sombo,up until 2008 i was main pps instructor to the uks victim support,I dont give my comments lightly regarding grappling or groundwork.as a matter of course,when the legend Gene Lebell came to the uk in a seminar with Bob Breen he was asked that very question,gene being the legend he is replied if it gets him outta there quick id use a lead pipe,lol .My main time spent in the ma was actually in the kaeshi ryu ju jitsu,but as a geezer who likes to tread any given path i can learn from i use what works at the times,and as stated numerous times for a beginner i would teach the fence,awareness and techniques which teach gross motor skills.Now if you dont mind bill answer this one for me,If a man who is quite adept at punching techniques,ie western boxing is coming hard at you with hooks crosses etc would you use one of the wrist locks hapkido is known for,or would you put that man in the trash with the firstt thing that came to mind? Because if you have the experience you say you have,you know full well its not going to be a wrist lock.my point is this,grappling is one of the finest arts going but its not the be all and end all,of course this is just my opinion,the opinion i might add of someone who has most of his ma experience in grappling ,and wouldnt hesitate to choke someone out till he pisses his pants in a 1 on 1 encounter,

looking forward to your responce mate

Marcus sr


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Wowee! I met and learnt off Bob Breen, but only for a little while. In my limited experience, grappling is very useful, and the psychology that goes with defeating a group leader, will often mean the battle is over, before other combatants join in. And, wrist and arm locks, if only used to guide and throw an opponent, are extremely useful too, and I've used them before in actual self-defence. But for my money, and this was taken from a Krav-Maga principle (that of striking fast and low) the thing which I've had almost 100% sucess with, is the repeated striking of an opponents knee area; it only takes a minimal effort, and the repeated striking, with small kicks, has all the advantages of leaving your hands free, and it ends with an incapacitated attacker. And because it's essential for standing, it even works against hard drug users.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

And (as I'm here and want you guys to talk more) I would prefer to use throws and manipulations in a group attack, as they are a lot more efficient than a series of strikes. ie: I would throw the first attacker into others. Just my two cents.


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

Answer to all single or multiple threats - Glock 19, 15 round mag, one in the chamber. Never failed me throughout my NYPD career. Never had to shoot at any perp - they respected that "the force was with me".
Maybe the thugs in NYC are just too wussy. Just like "plug n' play", "pull n' point" works seemlessly.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

THWACK! said:


> Answer to all single or multiple threats - Glock 19, 15 round mag, one in the chamber. Never failed me throughout my NYPD career. Never had to shoot at any perp - they respected that "the force was with me".
> Maybe the thugs in NYC are just too wussy. Just like "plug n' play", "pull n' point" works seemlessly.


To not have to fight, is the best defence of all.


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

THWACK! said:


> Answer to all single or multiple threats - Glock 19, 15 round mag, one in the chamber. Never failed me throughout my NYPD career. Never had to shoot at any perp - they respected that "the force was with me".
> Maybe the thugs in NYC are just too wussy. Just like "plug n' play", "pull n' point" works seemlessly.


luckily we dont have to deal with people with glocks etc,because if we did id have given my time to learning the use and most practical method of a gun instead of putting in countless hours of sweat broken limbs and everything else defending against an unarmed attacker,we teach weapon defence,but from the society we live ins approach


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Answer to all single or multiple threats - Glock 19, 15 round mag, one in the chamber. Never failed me throughout my NYPD career. Never had to shoot at any perp - they respected that "the force was with me".
> Maybe the thugs in NYC are just too wussy. Just like "plug n' play", "pull n' point" works seemlessly.


To not have to fight, is the best defence of all.
[/quote]
**** im afraid louis,when your out an about an some idiot is trying to ruin your evening with a pint glass smile,would you rather we took him out or spoake to him nicely while hes carving you a nice new smile
i think even bill would agree,you do not under any circumstance use grappling or throws against multiple opponents,thats tantamount to suicide,you have a valid point regarding the knee but y take your foot ofrom the floor and lose balance? if u can strike adequtely with your hands that will more than get the job done,elbows can be devastating but you have to be close to your opponent,learn to use strikes that are are at talking distance and can be used from the fence


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> And (as I'm here and want you guys to talk more) I would prefer to use throws and manipulations in a group attack, as they are a lot more efficient than a series of strikes. ie: I would throw the first attacker into others. Just my two cents.


I showed to you my survival/bushcraft books. Now that we're on another subject, we'll need to go to another bookshelf or two...

Regards


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

THWACK! said:


> And (as I'm here and want you guys to talk more) I would prefer to use throws and manipulations in a group attack, as they are a lot more efficient than a series of strikes. ie: I would throw the first attacker into others. Just my two cents.


I showed to you my survival/bushcraft books. Now that we're on another subject, we'll need to go to another bookshelf or two...

Regards
[/quote]
all four volumes of black medicine and the instruction book on boxing would be more than sufficient to give a grounding re street defence,judo is easier to learn from a book than ju jitsu or any other grapplin art,so those there and ur good to go


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

altho i will add you will get more from an hour or twos one to one tuition than 1 month reading a book


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## THWACK! (Nov 25, 2010)

marcus sr said:


> altho i will add you will get more from an hour or twos one to one tuition than 1 month reading a book


Agreed. That's why I studied with Grand Master Perter Urban at his New York dojo - American Goju Karate.

That was many, many yearas ago.


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## Vekta (Sep 5, 2011)

I'm very fortunate to have a friend that's an amateur fighter. He's always away on tournaments. When he has time he trains me for free. He mainly teaches Muay Thai. With college expenses, paying for Krav Maga training has been out of my reach. Still, it's been a very interesting experience learning a little Muay Thai. The sparing sessions where brutal. I feel sorry for my friend's opponents.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

marcus sr said:


> Fair comments Bill but a street situation is far to unpredictable to go to the ground,regardless of your ability unless its a 1 on 1,you say if you cant handle him and he takes it to the ground you dont have to worry about his mates?again a good comment but regardless of the fact it happens.if you read my post on the pfs you will see i hold dan grades in kaeshi ryu ju jitsu as well as an instructorship in hook wrestling known i believe in the us as catch,I also have experience in greco roman,freestyle as well as judo and sombo,up until 2008 i was main pps instructor to the uks victim support,I dont give my comments lightly regarding grappling or groundwork.as a matter of course,when the legend Gene Lebell came to the uk in a seminar with Bob Breen he was asked that very question,gene being the legend he is replied if it gets him outta there quick id use a lead pipe,lol .My main time spent in the ma was actually in the kaeshi ryu ju jitsu,but as a geezer who likes to tread any given path i can learn from i use what works at the times,and as stated numerous times for a beginner i would teach the fence,awareness and techniques which teach gross motor skills.Now if you dont mind bill answer this one for me,If a man who is quite adept at punching techniques,ie western boxing is coming hard at you with hooks crosses etc would you use one of the wrist locks hapkido is known for,or would you put that man in the trash with the firstt thing that came to mind? Because if you have the experience you say you have,you know full well its not going to be a wrist lock.my point is this,grappling is one of the finest arts going but its not the be all and end all,of course this is just my opinion,the opinion i might add of someone who has most of his ma experience in grappling ,and wouldnt hesitate to choke someone out till he pisses his pants in a 1 on 1 encounter,
> 
> looking forward to your responce mate
> 
> Marcus sr


Marcus I appreciate your enthusiasm on the subject... but there's no need to try and cast aspersions on what I'm saying. I've had many years of real world experience in the actual application of martial arts not only in the ring but as a law enforcement officer at many levels and even as a certified instructor of law enforcement combatives.... I actually am an expert on the subject, have been called into court as an expert witness and have been inducted into two Black Belt Hall of Fames for contributions to the Martial Arts specifically for helping to develop and teach techniques for use aboard aircraft (extreme close quarters combat) for Air Marshals.

Now as to what I would personally do if a guy is charging me swinging his fists... which is what you're really asking, because an adept boxer does not do what you're describing.... well that's a little bit of a loaded question in that it really depends on a lot more factors than merely an idiot swinging on me... that being said, a high percentage initial technique would be a savate style push kick to the leading leg's knee to create a little distance and to take his balance, then from there depending on how he reacts and moves it could be anything from a simple brachial stun done with a knife hand to stepping in controlling the head and planting the guy.

To clear up a little misnomer on BJJ, or any of the martial arts that rely heavily on grappling/locking/leverage-breaking techniques for that matter.... when faced with an opponent that does take the situation to the ground, the proficient grappler does NOT look to win through attrition. To quote chess philosophy, he looks for checkmate with every move and to end the confrontation as quickly and efficiently as possible.
The preference is NOT to go to the ground at all, but if it does end up there... like the vast majority of fights do... then you DO want to come out ahead as quickly as possible.

Like I said, if you can't handle the first guy if or when the fight goes to the ground... you don't have to worry about his mates.
BJJ (which I don't have a black belt in, just a couple years experience with Carlson Gracie) and Kosen Jiu Jitsu (which I do possess a black belt in) are very good martial arts to know.... and Combat Hapkido, NOT plain Hapkido but COMBAT Hapkido (ICHF) utilizes many of the more straight forward and therefore more effective real world techniques from BJJ, KJJ, Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Aikido and more.
But the thing I like most about Combat Hapkido is that it can be tailor made for each individual practitioner depending on their strengths and weaknesses.... it is in fact rare to see two students move, react or perform the same techniques in response to an aggressive altercation.


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## slingshot_sniper (Feb 20, 2011)

Best all round martial art? there isn't one simple...I've seen black belt karate guys crumble in a fight from a no body what the no body had more than then black belt was a belief and one aim,and that was to knock the guy out a conviction so strong he could take damage to get the job done....a guy so **** bent is very hard to defeat and yet he believes this too much and that is his weakness "complacency" and tomorrow he himself will be defeated...yep you got it,by a no body who believes hes someone









[edit] Wow how can he.ll be a swear word lol it should have read he,,ll bent

best tip I can give today is awareness training,that one thing could save your life


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## spanky (May 29, 2011)

I am no expet on any martial art,What training i did went straight out the window in a real street fight.
I did what my father told me,If the guy even looks like trouble-USUALLY The guy starts making his mouth about what he is going to do to you,Dont reply to his threats-Just hit him fast and hard.
Use every body part, if need be-Bite him if he gets a hold on you.
Where i come from if you go to the ground,Get ready because the bloke and his mates are going to kick the crap out of you.


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

First off where did casting aspersions come from?what you seem to forget is that your arena is in complete contrast to mine,the thread got onto grappling not just with me but with others also.your expertise in slingshots is unquestionable,hence if you told me that holding a balloon in my mouth whilst whistling dixie was gonna make me a better shot id take that advice,do you see where im going with that?my experiences of confrontation and violence come from working front line on some of the ****tiest doors in north essex where i live ,inc colchester,the uks armed services capitol.as for a boxer not coming at you that way its happened numerous occasions ,afterall that is his game.my opinions are just that,opinions,i dont have to like or agree with yours same as you dont have to like and agree to mine.if you think im casting aspersions then,as we say in the uk,thats your look out.a blackbelt in my opinion is just that a belt of black canvas,you may have more blackbelts etc but i have 20 yrs door experience,only 2 blackbelts,and which one do you think gave me a more eye opening experience?I have lads refered to me every weekend for work and top of the list on there cv is im a blackbelt,and my answer is ,can you fight,playing for points is a lot different to dealing with a 16st manual worker trying headbutt the life out of you because your saving him from ruining peoples nights.sorry if you have taken what i have said and written personally it wasnt intentional,but i have strong opinions on real world combat,fighting,call it what you will,and them opinions come from the fact i face it on a weekly basis.while on the subject as not just you but others on the thread always seem to miss when i have typed it,awareness and working from a fence are the key,recognising verbal diferences,tone of voice and utilising techniques from the fence are key,take the advice or not,lol its you issues not mine

Marcus sr


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## marcus sr (Jun 5, 2011)

spanky said:


> I am no expet on any martial art,What training i did went straight out the window in a real street fight.
> I did what my father told me,If the guy even looks like trouble-USUALLY The guy starts making his mouth about what he is going to do to you,Dont reply to his threats-Just hit him fast and hard.
> Use every body part, if need be-Bite him if he gets a hold on you.
> Where i come from if you go to the ground,Get ready because the bloke and his mates are going to kick the crap out of you.


about ****ing time!! the most realistic (in my opinion) answer to this whole thread,apart from the fence excactly what i have been trying to put across,verbal threats ,dropping down to single syllables,get him out of of there,put him in the trash.Do not wait for him to strike you,thats silly and stupid,you know its coming so act on it!


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

marcus sr said:


> Answer to all single or multiple threats - Glock 19, 15 round mag, one in the chamber. Never failed me throughout my NYPD career. Never had to shoot at any perp - they respected that "the force was with me".
> Maybe the thugs in NYC are just too wussy. Just like "plug n' play", "pull n' point" works seemlessly.


To not have to fight, is the best defence of all.
[/quote]
**** im afraid louis,when your out an about an some idiot is trying to ruin your evening with a pint glass smile,would you rather we took him out or spoake to him nicely while hes carving you a nice new smile
i think even bill would agree,you do not under any circumstance use grappling or throws against multiple opponents,thats tantamount to suicide,you have a valid point regarding the knee but y take your foot ofrom the floor and lose balance? if u can strike adequtely with your hands that will more than get the job done,elbows can be devastating but you have to be close to your opponent,learn to use strikes that are are at talking distance and can be used from the fence
[/quote]
Once a man has started the attack, I would not try to talk my way out of it (unless I had a chance to distract him) I was referring to the idea, that the best way to not get hit, is to not get involved.
You have a point about balance though, but I learnt some very quick low-leg work from Wing-chun, and it's quite natural for me to attack like that, when my hands are restricting an attacker. And nearly all my work has been close quarter. And you and Bill don't have to disagree, I think both of you are very adequate fighters, I think both of you seem to know your jobs so well, that it's like asking a man how many sugars he prefer in his tea ... who cares as long as you both get a cup?
And about throwing, during a group attack; the way I see it, if I were to try and move many feet of space. going back and forth to strike a few opponents, it's likely I will be overwhelmed quickly. However, using the tactics of, let's say Aikido, I take the first attack, and use it to throw the man into his friends, covering many directions, in one go. For me it makes sense, but I haven't been in enough situations like that, to really tell. It just seems logical, from the routes I've taken.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

There's something else as well, the speed of JKD punches is almost in-comparable to other styles, and it's one of the few styles, where you have to match what is coming at you, or suffer the consequences; it's one of the reasons I love it so much. So I guess I'm not surprised, you wish to use the strikes etc. over the throws. But that kind of speed and style, is not for everyone, and no-one is immune to joint manipulation, it just takes a better practitioner.


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