# Big Marbles



## Pablo88 (Jul 22, 2015)

I went to my local .98 cent store and I found 2 Bags of marbles so I bought them 50 marbles for $2.00.

Not a bad deal now I'm working on a set up to shoot these monsters.

So far I did Double Tbg 1 inch straight cut and tapper tubes.

Has any one try these and if so what set up did you use?

Has any one hunted with them?

If so please let me know.

Have a great day.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

I might make a set of this 1/16" thick Natural Gum rubber I have. I'd say 1" of it should throw them at hunting speed.

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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

You don't hunt with marbles. They don't have the mass to make enough force to guarantee a kill. Unless your focus is maiming and not killing you won't try hunting with marbles.

That being said, I love marbles for target shooting, especially white marbles as they let you see their path quite clearly. They don't require a heavy bandset unless you're trying for some kind of huge range, which you'd be better off with steel or lead for.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Phoul Mouth said:


> You don't hunt with marbles. They don't have the mass to make enough force to guarantee a kill. Unless your focus is maiming and not killing you won't try hunting with marbles.
> 
> That being said, I love marbles for target shooting, especially white marbles as they let you see their path quite clearly. They don't require a heavy bandset unless you're trying for some kind of huge range, which you'd be better off with steel or lead for.


PT. I think one could hunt rabbit humanely with marbles. Assuming close range and you are good enough to guarantee a head hit.

I think a 1" marbles would obliterate a rabbit if sent to hunting fps.

With that said, I like to use overkill when hunting. I would probably never hunt with anything less than 1/2" steel. And if I was going to shoot a rabbit in the chest region it would be with 75 Cal/20mm bb or with lead.

But I do think a large marble at hunting velocity on a head shot at 10m or so would be humane for small critters. And I have an almost Native American spiritual approach to my hunting and respect for the animal.

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## Pablo88 (Jul 22, 2015)

Phoul Mouth said:


> You don't hunt with marbles. They don't have the mass to make enough force to guarantee a kill. Unless your focus is maiming and not killing you won't try hunting with marbles.
> 
> That being said, I love marbles for target shooting, especially white marbles as they let you see their path quite clearly. They don't require a heavy bandset unless you're trying for some kind of huge range, which you'd be better off with steel or lead for.


Fist of all I always hunt with lead or steel ammo.
You are saying that marbles don't have the mass to kill. Then why are these marbles heavier than my .54 cal lead ball?
Any ideas?

I believe with a head shot its a guaranteed kill.

But hey everyone has an opinion.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Pablo88 said:


> Phoul Mouth said:
> 
> 
> > You don't hunt with marbles. They don't have the mass to make enough force to guarantee a kill. Unless your focus is maiming and not killing you won't try hunting with marbles.
> ...


I think he means the density. They don't have the same penetration and concentration of force. Also it's probably best to not give anyone who isn't a crack shot the idea it's ok to hunt with low density ammo.

With that said, a 1" marble on a head shot at 300 fps+ is going to give a bunny quite the headache.

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## Pablo88 (Jul 22, 2015)

There's times when I hunt or other people have hunted with out getting a penetration. Some kills are blunt forced trauma.

But if you put it that way, I understand .

Thanks inconvenience.

Hey by the way where did you purchased that natural gum rubber?


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Pablo88 said:


> There's times when I hunt or other people have hunted with out getting a penetration. Some kills are blunt forced trauma.
> 
> But if you put it that way, I understand .
> 
> ...


Simple shot. I still need to get a chronometer or whatever but this stuff is putting the Heat on half-inch steel and that's at only a half inch band thickness.

I had a basic backstop for three eighths inch ammo and I threw a half inch band of this on my new Ocularis Beanflip and shot a paper target. The half inch bearing went through 3 layers of foam core sign material then pulled the towel I had next through another layer of the foam core and into my sheetrock wall.

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## Phoul Mouth (Jan 6, 2015)

Marbles do not make the kinetic energy necessary for reliable kills via blunt force trauma, which is how slingshots kill. I think it was actually Charles who posted the math in the past, but either way it doesn't matter. If you are a humane hunter you won't use marbles.

Edit: I wish this forum had a tag system cause I could tag Charles in here to see if he was the one who made that post, I doubt he would have forgotten it.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Phoul Mouth said:


> Marbles do not make the kinetic energy necessary for reliable kills via blunt force trauma, which is how slingshots kill. I think it was actually Charles who posted the math in the past, but either way it doesn't matter. If you are a humane hunter you won't use marbles.
> 
> Edit: I wish this forum had a tag system cause I could tag Charles in here to see if he was the one who made that post, I doubt he would have forgotten it.


I use overkill and am a humane hunter. But no chart will convince me a 1" marble going at 300 fps or so hitting a rabbit in the head is not going to be a humane kill.

But I agree with the spirit of what you are saying, If you read my recent posts specifically about some jerk off killing a crow for no reason you will get where I am coming from.

And I wouldn't want people thinking it's ok to hunt with marbles in general. So I will second the sentiment of saying no one should hunt with marbles.

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## Pablo88 (Jul 22, 2015)

This topic has gone the whole opposite way I had in mind.

Totally off topic and full of opinions at the end of the day im going to do what I want to do.

In the 1st post I asked for set ups and if some one has hunted with these marbles.

inconvenience you posted a set of this 1/16" thick Natural Gum rubber I have. I'd say 1" of it should throw them at hunting speed. Now your saying that you second Phoul mouth, which one is it?

First you go with my idea and then you turn back.

By the way I didn't say I would go hunting for squirrels or rabbits.

If I do hunt with marbles would be pest birds.

But I'm tired of this back and forth with you guys.

Goodnight.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using marbles for hunting ... providing you are accurate, as with any ammo. And do not use really small marbles.

Most slingshot kills are the result of blunt force trauma, not penetration.

Glass and stone have about the same density. Glass marbles have a density of about 2.52 gm per cubic centimeter. Different types of stone have somewhat different densities, but the general range is 2.3 -2.8 gm per cubic centimeter.

Historically when speaking of slingshots, probably more game has been killed with stones than with any other type of ammo. Personally, in my own case, as a young lad I hunted with nothing but stones, as did everyone I knew. So, just think of marbles as very smooth, spherical stones. Because of their uniform shape, marbles will be more accurate than stones. If you want to hunt with marbles, just use marbles that are on the larger size ... just as with stones. If you want to hunt with stones, do not use pea gravel ... use larger stones. Marbles make fine ammo for birds, frogs, snakes, and rabbits. Squirrels are tougher, but with a head shot and good velocity, a decent sized marble will do the job ... just like a rock would do the job.

These days, I prefer to use lead cylinders or lead cubes ... more about lead cubes in another post. I am a fan of heavier ammo. I do not shoot at game at more than about 10 meters, so the curvature of the trajectory when using heavier ammo is not of great concern to me. For lots of examples of folks successfully hunting with marbles, just peruse the hunting section.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Pablo88 (Jul 22, 2015)

Thank you for your information Charles.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

[quote name="Pablo88" post="596690" timestamp="1464063171"]
This topic has gone the whole opposite way I had in mind.

Totally off topic and full of opinions at the end of the day im going to do what I want to do.

In the 1st post I asked for set ups and if some one has hunted with these marbles.

inconvenience you posted a set of this 1/16" thick Natural Gum rubber I have. I'd say 1" of it should throw them at hunting speed. Now your saying that you second Phoul mouth, which one is it?
First you go with my idea and then you turn back.

By the way I didn't say I would go hunting for squirrels or rabbits.
If I do hunt with marbles would be pest birds.

But I'm tired of this back and forth with you guys.
Goodnight.

That's not what I said at all. In the end I decided it is best to promote overkill when talking about hunting.

But the original subject was about the 1" marbles. Which, if propelled to the right speed will absolutely kill about any small game on a headshot.

My "reversal" was to say that I'd rather say people not hunt with marbles at all than to have someone read my post halfway and say it's ok to hunt with all marbles.

Just like you read my post halfway and decided I was reversing myself in some conspiracy against you.

And what is a "pest bird?"


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

I found a really good setup for marbles. 7" of 9\16 red linitex, a large super sure pouch. No fancy formula, just field tested. Lasts a long long time. Hope this answeres your question.


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

By the way... Nice natural ring shooter! Love the color!


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## Pablo88 (Jul 22, 2015)

I'll order some linitex.
Thanks for the idea.


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## Grandpa Pete (May 2, 2013)

I am always happy to read comments about respecting the animals we hunt, going for humane kills and passing up shots when we are not sure we can make make a clean kill.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Grandpa Pete said:


> I am always happy to read comments about respecting the animals we hunt, going for humane kills and passing up shots when we are not sure we can make make a clean kill.


Thank you. I started shooting full fledged guns at 7. So no telling when I started shooting slingshots and bb guns. I remember as a very small child shooting a finch and feeling the heat leave it's body and vowing from that day forward to never kill anything I wouldn't eat or that wasn't a threat to me again.

Later I came to feel it was OK to kill invasive species as well, but even those I kill humanely.

Anyway. I tested the big marbles against some 1" wide by 1/4" pressboard. This was with a 1/2" strip of 1/16th gum rubber. It snapped it like a twig. This would turn a rabbits skull into a bag of mush and small birds would be killed even on a body shot. I have no doubt it would break my finger. It was exactly how a 1/2" steel bearing snapped it.










I have heard linatex is similar to gum rubber in pull to power ratio.

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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

The equation for kinetic energy is: KE = M x V x V / 2

where M is the mass of the particle and V is the velocity. For the energy of your projectile, the only thing that matters is mass and velocity. The material out of which your projectile is made does not matter ... lead, steel, glass, stone ... same mass and velocity yields the same kinetic energy.

Of course the larger your projectile, the more energy loss due to air resistance. But with the materials we are discussing, out to 10 meters the loss will not be that significant. So a lead ball and a glass marble of the same weight will behave pretty much the same out to 10 meters or so, even though the lead ball is quite a bit smaller. And given that stones and glass marbles of the same dimensions will have the same mass, there is no difference in velocity loss between stone and marbles. From the standpoint of slingshots, marbles are just very smooth, uniform stones.

For hunting, the shape of the projectile can make a difference. With a sharp edge, as opposed to a blunt edge, the energy will be concentrated on a smaller area initially, leading to more trauma. So I prefer cylinders or cubes to spheres.

Cheers ... Charles


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Charles said:


> The equation for kinetic energy is: KE = M x V x V / 2
> 
> where M is the mass of the particle and V is the velocity. For the energy of your projectile, the only thing that matters is mass and velocity. The material out of which your projectile is made does not matter ... lead, steel, glass, stone ... same mass and velocity yields the same kinetic energy.
> 
> ...


Aye Charles. With that formula it's easy to see slingshots can exceed the energy of... things that go bang .... on the extreme end.

Anyway, seeing what the big marbles did to the pressboard with bands a little bit lighter than I would use for hunting leaves little doubt to me they would be sufficient for a humane kill.

Squirrels are pretty tough though, for whatever reason, and I would only use steel or lead on them. Rabbits seem to die if you look at them too hard. And small birds are all over the place in toughness.


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

Aye Charles. With that formula it's easy to see slingshots can exceed the energy of... things that go bang .... on the extreme end.

if you think slingshots are surpassing the energy and killing power of even the smallest of firearms you`re living in a dream world -------


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

fsimpson said:


> Aye Charles. With that formula it's easy to see slingshots can exceed the energy of... things that go bang .... on the extreme end.
> 
> if you think slingshots are surpassing the energy and killing power of even the smallest of firearms you`re living in a dream world -------


As a matter of fact, a reasonably banded slingshot shooting ammo in the range of 100-150 grains will exceed the muzzle energy of the .22 long rifle cartridge shot from a rifle. Here are some statistics for .22 muzzle energy:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.22_Long_Rifle

Except for the hyper velocity rounds, most .22 cartridges come in at less than 150 fpe. Even the hypervelocity rounds struggle to break 200 fpe. As we know, slingshots can exceed that without too much difficulty.

Cheers .... Charles


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

fsimpson said:


> Aye Charles. With that formula it's easy to see slingshots can exceed the energy of... things that go bang .... on the extreme end.
> 
> if you think slingshots are surpassing the energy and killing power of even the smallest of firearms you`re living in a dream world -------


Look up "Worlds Strongest Handheld Slingshot" for the extreme end of things.

No one is saying a slingshot is a replacement for a gun. I've been shooting since I was 7 and I was a Marine.

But if you take something 3x the mass and throw it at 1/3rd the speed you have equalled the energy. Some guys are launching 75 caliber balls at over 400fps on the extreme end, which is over the energy of a .45 if I remember right.

But again, no one was ever claiming a slingshot is a match for a gun. But we are claiming that science is a thing. It might be wise to not assume people here are idiots.

Edit: Deleted harsh comment.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

My friends, my friends ... PLEASE keep it civil. There is nothing wrong with disagreement ... but please be respectful of each other.

Cheers .... Charles


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Charles said:


> My friends, my friends ... PLEASE keep it civil. There is nothing wrong with disagreement ... but please be respectful of each other.
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


Sorry Charles and everyone. Being told I'm wrong, especially with such certainty, by someone who knows less than I do about a subject, really gets my goat.

I'm a hot head, I know.

It's no excluse for bad behavior on my part though. I guess just posting F=ma and leaving it at that would have been sufficient.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Charles said:


> My friends, my friends ... PLEASE keep it civil. There is nothing wrong with disagreement ... but please be respectful of each other.
> 
> Cheers .... Charles





inconvenience said:


> Charles said:
> 
> 
> > My friends, my friends ... PLEASE keep it civil. There is nothing wrong with disagreement ... but please be respectful of each other.
> ...


F=ma would have been better than dropping your f-bomb and now insulting him again.

Read Charles' post again....be respectful and there should be no problem with a little disagreement of views and opinions. In fact, the difference in views on subjects is what keeps discussion lively and interesting. What fun would it be if we all agreed and it was RA RA RA all the time?


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

i`m not saying another word about this , but i am sticking with my original statement about killing power -------frank


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

fsimpson said:


> i`m not saying another word about this , but i am sticking with my original statement about killing power -------frank


Stick with it till your dying day. But .75 Cal balls of steel hitting something at 400fps is gonna do more damage than some handguns. And I was talking about the extremes. And you said basically "no slingshot could ever do the damage of any gun, period."

It's simply not true. Which one would I rather take to the back? Probably the slingshot ball. But to the head? I'd probably say a 20mm steel ball hitting me in the head at 400fps is gonna be just as bad as a .38. Maybe worse.

Again. I was talking about the extremes of slingshots and you were saying no slingshot EVER could do as much damage as a gun to ANYTHING. Which simply is not true, objectively.

And to Bruce: someone saying I'm living in a dream world is way worse than anything I said here. Not that it makes what I said right.

Ok. Now I'm really done, unless it's to reply to another comment.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I want to see you pull the bands of a slingshot that's going to throw an almost 1in steel ball 400 feet a second. More than likely the slingshot going to fly out of your hand and that's going to crack your skull.

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## BC-Slinger (Jan 6, 2013)

Cjw said:


> I want to see you pull the bands of a slingshot that's going to throw an almost 1in steel ball 400 feet a second. More than likely the slingshot going to fly out of your hand and that's going to crack your skull.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Lol I would like to see that to.

Cheers

Matt.K.M aka BC-Slinger


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Cjw said:


> I want to see you pull the bands of a slingshot that's going to throw an almost 1in steel ball 400 feet a second. More than likely the slingshot going to fly out of your hand and that's going to crack your skull.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


If I tried to do it? Probably 

My hands aren't what they used to be and I'm afraid of full butterfly anyway.

I am a pretty strong dude. I still bench over 400. I have drawn a 130lb longbow. My main limitation is my hands.

Granted that. I'm probably not as strong as Joergsprave or the guy that sent .75 Cal balls through 1/2" plywood like it was rice paper.

But I do think it's a silly argument that NO slingshot could EVER produce the energy of ANY gun. It falls flat on it's face with one Google search or some basic physics.

A gun is always going to be worse against soft tissue. It concentrates the power in a very small area. But to areas susceptible to blunt trauma, such as the skull, I think even the damage a slingshot I can draw would do worse than low powered handguns. It's basically a ball peen hammer with range swung with as much force as you can pull.

With the gum rubber I have already put a 1/2" ball through 1/4" plywood. Regular cheap plywood. Not the nice birch stuff.

I do plan on doing destruction tests when I get my hands on larger bearings. Again, my ability to hold on to the pouch will be the main limiting factor.


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## Ian (Feb 27, 2016)

My papa said he used surgical tubing with big marbles.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Ian! said:


> My papa said he used surgical tubing with big marbles.


I'll just add finally, the BIG 1" marbles will certainly do the job. But it's always better to use steel or lead in case you miss the head shot and hit the body. I don't want so much as a rat to suffer.

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