# ttf natural? can it happen?



## Christopher Phares (Dec 13, 2012)

First of all I'm sorry if this has been adressed allready. When I try to search the forums it wont let me use the term "ttf" so I poked around a bit and didn't find anything addressing this.

So, I finished my first operational natural today, and I banded it with doubled Golds Gym red bands and tied it like most people around seem to tie their bands to natural forks. That is, over the top of the fork so that when you pull on the rubber it's tied to the front and pulls across the top of the forks. 
I got about 40 min of a break in the rain today and I went out and shot it. If I'm doing it correctly, I HATE how tieing the bands this way shoots. unless I point the forks forward the marble seems to move in an Arch. I like shooting TTF as it helps with accuracy for me.

So, long story short, how can I tie the bands so that the marble goes TTF and not OTF?


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

you can put them on Hussey style...


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

First of all, unless you are shooting with a strong flip or using the speed bump effect, your ammo will be going between your forks. Just because your bands are set up in an OTT format, that in itself does not mean that your ammo is going anywhere but between your forks.

Having said that, you still may not like the way you shoot with that band arrangement. There are a number of alternatives.

1) For tubes, you can drill a small hole through the fork tips, and pass your tubes through the holes. For single tubes, you can wedge a bead into the end of the tube passed through the hole. Personally, I would add a small tie behind the bead to be sure it does not slip out. For doubled or half doubled tubes, you can pass the bent double end through the hole, then bring the loop back over the fork tip.

2) Use a hacksaw to cut a slit in the end of each fork tip. Then use the match stick attachment method. Double over the end of the band around a match stick (or something similar). Grasp the matchstick in the folded band with one hand and grasp the folded band end against the longer part of the band with the other hand. Then stretch the doubled band and slip it into the slot. Pull the bands to snug each match stick against the fork tip. You can shoot this arrangement in three different ways. A) You can pull the bands in the direction on the opposite side of the match stick ... this is a Bands Same Side arrangement . B ) You can pull the bands around the outside of the forks so your draw is on the same side as the match stick ... this is an Outside The Forks arrangement. C) You can pull the bands between the forks so your draw is on the same side as the match stick ... this is a Through The Forks arrangement.

If your forks are very narrow, the TTF arrangement C may tend to foul your shot. Both B and C might result in rapid band wear if the forks are a bit rough. You can avoid this wear if your folded band is left long enough that the flap end of the band wraps around the fork under the drawn part of the band.

3) You can drape the end of your bands over the tips and tie the band so that the tie passes around the band on both sides of the tip as harpersgrace has just illustrated. This is an Against The Ties band arrangement.

No matter the arrangement of the bands, you can cause the ammo to pass over the top of the fork tips if you are a strong flip shooter or if you use the speed bump effect.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Christopher Phares (Dec 13, 2012)

So what is it I'm doing that is causing the marble to move in an arc? I was getting a straight and much more powerful shot on my daisy b52 , this has got to be user error...


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Here you go:
http://slingshotforum.com/topic/17655-spalted-scottish-natural/
This is a TTF natural set up "matchstick" style.


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## Christopher Phares (Dec 13, 2012)

here is a pic if it helps. I don't think that it is anything special just posting to show. Maybe I didn't do it right or something...




  








148652 4085514301773 22887409 N




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Christopher Phares


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Dec 20, 2012


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Christopher Phares said:


> So what is it I'm doing that is causing the marble to move in an arc? I was getting a straight and much more powerful shot on my daisy b52 , this has got to be user error...


It is hard to diagnose what is going on, just by email. What do you mean when you say your ammo is moving in an arc? Of course your ammo always moves in a bit of an arc, due to the force of bands pushing the ammo horizontally, air resistance slowing your ammo down, and gravity pulling your ammo vertically.

The weaker your bands the more noticeable will be the result of gravity ... the heavier your ammo, the more slowly it will move for a given band and draw, and the more noticeable will be the result of gravity.

If you shoot really light ammo, like tin foil balls, the ammo often will fly in a very erratic manner, primarily caused by an irregular surface and the effects of air resistance and turbulence.

Air resistance can also cause rocks to have erratic flight, because of flat surfaces.

Then of course there are fork hits that will cause the ammo to fly off in an unexpected direction.

Your are using multiple, fairly wide bands. It is possible that your bands are fouling your shots.

There are lots of possibilities here, and it is difficult to say just what is causing your problems.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## Christopher Phares (Dec 13, 2012)

M_J said:


> Here you go:
> http://slingshotforu...ottish-natural/
> This is a TTF natural set up "matchstick" style.


This is great! I think this will suit me much better. Thank you sir!


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Oh boy ...


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## Christopher Phares (Dec 13, 2012)

Charles said:


> So what is it I'm doing that is causing the marble to move in an arc? I was getting a straight and much more powerful shot on my daisy b52 , this has got to be user error...


It is hard to diagnose what is going on, just by email. What do you mean when you say your ammo is moving in an arc? Of course your ammo always moves in a bit of an arc, due to the force of bands pushing the ammo horizontally, air resistance slowing your ammo down, and gravity pulling your ammo vertically.

The weaker your bands the more noticeable will be the result of gravity ... the heavier your ammo, the more slowly it will move for a given band and draw, and the more noticeable will be the result of gravity.

If you shoot really light ammo, like tin foil balls, the ammo often will fly in a very erratic manner, primarily caused by an irregular surface and the effects of air resistance and turbulence.

Air resistance can also cause rocks to have erratic flight, because of flat surfaces.

Then of course there are fork hits that will cause the ammo to fly off in an unexpected direction.

Your are using multiple, fairly wide bands. It is possible that your bands are fouling your shots.

There are lots of possibilities here, and it is difficult to say just what is causing your problems.

Cheers ...... Charles
[/quote]

well, I am sure it's user error somehow. By Arc, I mean at about 30 steps away from the privacy fence when I aim at a spot on the fence about waist high the marble I shoot arcs over the fence and hits a tree that is about 7 steps behind the fence at just about the same waist high height I was aiming for on the fence. After about 60 shots I noticed if I aimed at that spot on the fence I hit the same spot on the tree almost every time.


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## Christopher Phares (Dec 13, 2012)

NaturalFork said:


> Oh boy ...


I guess I don't understand your response.


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Christopher Phares said:


> Oh boy ...


I guess I don't understand your response.
[/quote]

Sorry man. It wasnt directed toward you. I have made a TTF natural by carving out notches in the side of the frame to attach the rubber to. It worked pretty well. I will try to attach a pic later.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Christopher Phares said:


> well, I am sure it's user error somehow. By Arc, I mean at about 30 steps away from the privacy fence when I aim at a spot on the fence about waist high the marble I shoot arcs over the fence and hits a tree that is about 7 steps behind the fence at just about the same waist high height I was aiming for on the fence. After about 60 shots I noticed if I aimed at that spot on the fence I hit the same spot on the tree almost every time.


If you were getting a fork or frame hit, I am pretty sure your would notice it ... and your shot placement would not be consistent. But something you are doing is certainly lofting the ammo quite high. It sounds to me like it might well be the speed bump effect.

Suppose you are holding the ammo and pouch with your thumb nail pointing up toward the sky. If you are gripping the pouch between your thumb and index finger, with the ammo in the pouch pressed down behind your index finger, and then you release by just moving your thumb, then the ammo will be dragged over your index finger and will bounce up, just like a car going too fast over a speed bump.

You can get the same effect if the tip of your thumb is pointing up, pouch gripped between thumb and index finger in sort of a backhand draw, with the band pulling against the thumb. If the pouch holding the ammo is down on the pad of your thumb and you release by slightly opening the gap between thumb and index finger, the pouch will be dragged up and over the tip of the thumb, again producing the speed bump effect.

If you are shooting intuitively, rather than aiming, you could just be holding your pouch hand much too low.

Cheers ...... Charles


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