# Mugging in progress



## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

To stop a crime would you use your slingshot if thats all you had or would you just keep moving away from the scene?


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## pelleteer (Dec 19, 2009)

I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind to do something to stop the guy, but you never know how you'll react till you're in the situation, and things like this seem to happen so darn fast that by the time you figure out what's going on, the guy's out of range. We had a girl here last month, college student at ASU, who had a guy drive up to her and grab her purse. It looked to bystanders like here hand got caught up in the purse strap, and the guy took off, dragged her and ended up running over and killing her. Haven't heard any updates, but I believe the sleazebag is still on the loose.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

pelleteer said:


> I'd like to think I'd have the presence of mind to do something to stop the guy, but you never know how you'll react till you're in the situation, and things like this seem to happen so darn fast that by the time you figure out what's going on, the guy's out of range. We had a girl here last month, college student at ASU, who had a guy drive up to her and grab her purse. It looked to bystanders like here hand got caught up in the purse strap, and the guy took off, dragged her and ended up running over and killing her. Haven't heard any updates, but I believe the sleazebag is still on the loose.


Yea what a very sad thing. There was also a walmart employee that got run over during some crime that was going down and he died from the crush injuries. Your right it happens so fast .


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

dgui said:


> If it was going down right now and no time for the law to intercede and all you had was your shooter. Would you send a projectile his way and stop the attack and save someone out of perile?


I certainly would NOT send any projectile downrange at a mugger if I were a bystander. That would put me in the wrong. In the places I've lived, your can use deadly force to counteract an assailant who is using deadly force or intent on creating serious bodily harm. A purse snatcher, the "normal" kind, not a psycho-killer, does not present that kind of threat. And if anyone thinks you can shoot a slingshot at someone and it wouldn't be considered potential deadly force in a court of law, I think your head is screwed on wrong.

Depending on the situation (one assailant vs. ten, weapons, etc.), I would hope to intervene by going directly to the victims aid. That would mean joining the victim in the struggle. Of course if the assailant was brandishing a knife or something deadly I wouldn't jump into the middle of things for hand-to-hand combat. Besides, that would qualify as the assailant using potentially deadly force and in that case I would be covered to draw my own firearm and put a decisive end to the situation. If I came to the victims aid and the assailant turned on me and presented deadly force, I would also be justified in defending myself with deadly force if need be.

But a slingshot, from a distance, as an uninvolved bystander? No way! You just can't go playing sniper to be the hero of the day. Normal people do not have arrest powers or the authority to prevent a "typical" crime in progress. We do have authority to stop a DEADLY crime in progress by using deadly force if needed though (well, depending on where you live - some places expect your defense to be "lay down and die", but I don't live in one of those places thankfully).


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

Don't do it! U can go to jail for a very long time and you won't be making slingshot up there, you'll be busy with license plates. You can kill or maime some for life.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

I would not shoot him with a slingshot. On the other hand I think if I saw something along those lines going down I hope I would have enough courage to atleast chase him down and get that purse back


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

If you see someone getting mugged it is your civil duty to step in. Sorry but if you just let it happen you are not only wrong but a sissy. Slingshot, gun, pure muscle, whatever you have to do to try and correct the situation.

However like said above. If the mugger had a gun ... and you had nothing. It is your life and your familys above all. You have to think about yourself and the ones you love first.


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

RecurveMaster said:


> Sorry but if you just let it happen you are not only wrong but a sissy. Slingshot, gun, pure muscle, whatever you have to do to try and correct the situation.


I don't think anybody said "just let it happen". But you have to respond in a reasonable and responsible manner if you are armed (or anytime else, for that matter). People that actually carry firearms know this. Of course I'm talking "legally" carrying firearms here. Drawing your firearm and taking a life - or even just firing a shot - for a purse snatching is a very wrong and stupid thing to do. The situation would be different in a deadly encounter where you came upon a victim whos life was in danger. Where I live the use of a firearm in this case would probably be justified, but in other places it would be you, the "rescuer", who might end up in prison and paying compensation to the mugger. I'm not saying that should stop you from doing what is morally right. But "morally right" has different meanings to different authorities in different locales.

Moving back to the initial intent of this thread, using a slingshot in a mugging situation is probably not going to stop anything. It is more likely to escalate it. While a slingshot would be considered a deadly weapon in a court of law, I think we all realize that most likely it would not be deadly to a human, or even incapacitate them (only in rare situations). The assailant would probably say "ouch" (maybe a few more choice words, not suitable for printing here) and then beat your head in while strangling you with your slingshot.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

I wouldn't shoot, I'd probably hit the victim; for me, standard practice is distraction (get the attackers attention, and give the victim a chance to get away) and attraction (make lots of noise, most every criminal doesn't want to get caught) when it comes to engaging ... learn some real self-defence, and preferably basic weapons work, getting into a fight is dangerous, even when you're a professional.


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## snakeshack (Jul 15, 2010)

15 years ago I stepped in to help a woman who was yelling rape and that she was being kidnapped in a bank parking lot. It turned out it was his wife and they ended up both attacking me after I hit the guy. A police officer showed up moments into the altercation and was going to arrest me, but a bystander who witnessed the situation came to my aid. Oh, and maybe 15 people say this happen and only one came forward!







He let me go with a warning!
















Would I step in again? Yes, but I might ask if she/he needs help first. The moral of the story is that the good guy isn't always treated like a hero, but good guys have to do it anyway. This is a dangerous world and there are consequences to our actions.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

snakeshack said:


> 15 years ago I stepped in to help a woman who was yelling rape and that she was being kidnapped in a bank parking lot. It turned out it was his wife and they ended up both attacking me after I hit the guy. A police officer showed up moments into the altercation and was going to arrest me, but a bystander who witnessed the situation came to my aid. Oh, and maybe 15 people say this happen and only one came forward!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


We are living in perilous times and no good deed goes un-punished.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

haertig said:


> Sorry but if you just let it happen you are not only wrong but a sissy. Slingshot, gun, pure muscle, whatever you have to do to try and correct the situation.


I don't think anybody said "just let it happen". But you have to respond in a reasonable and responsible manner if you are armed (or anytime else, for that matter). People that actually carry firearms know this. Of course I'm talking "legally" carrying firearms here. Drawing your firearm and taking a life - or even just firing a shot - for a purse snatching is a very wrong and stupid thing to do. The situation would be different in a deadly encounter where you came upon a victim whos life was in danger. Where I live the use of a firearm in this case would probably be justified, but in other places it would be you, the "rescuer", who might end up in prison and paying compensation to the mugger. I'm not saying that should stop you from doing what is morally right. But "morally right" has different meanings to different authorities in different locales.

Moving back to the initial intent of this thread, using a slingshot in a mugging situation is probably not going to stop anything. It is more likely to escalate it. While a slingshot would be considered a deadly weapon in a court of law, I think we all realize that most likely it would not be deadly to a human, or even incapacitate them (only in rare situations). The assailant would probably say "ouch" (maybe a few more choice words, not suitable for printing here) and then beat your head in while strangling you with your slingshot.
[/quote]

Well, maybe your right, we should all look away, dont get invovled, and just keep moving. I dont know if I could let someone get hurt or kidnapped and do nothing. And when I hit something with a slingshot you can bet its hit and no one will simpy just say ouch, their going down baby. No I dont think im just walkin by, I will send the perp something.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Snakeshack, that is stupid. If she is yelling rape and u try to help why do you get into trouble? It makes no sense


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

dgui said:


> Well, maybe your right, we should all look away, dont get invovled, and just keep moving. I dont know if I could let someone get hurt or kidnapped and do nothing.


I don't understand why folks keep saying I'm advocating doing nothing because I mention that a slingshot is not a good tool to use to stop a mugging. I am advocating doing something better (than being a slingshot sniper), not doing nothing. I guess I'll just write this off to people not reading what I've written,and let it go at that without posting further in this thread.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

haertig said:


> Well, maybe your right, we should all look away, dont get invovled, and just keep moving. I dont know if I could let someone get hurt or kidnapped and do nothing.


I don't understand why folks keep saying I'm advocating doing nothing because I mention that a slingshot is not a good tool to use to stop a mugging. I am advocating doing something better (than being a slingshot sniper), not doing nothing. I guess I'll just write this off to people not reading what I've written,and let it go at that without posting further in this thread.
[/quote]
No I pretty much agree with what you've said, it would be wrong to condone a slingshot as being suitable for self-defence - the reality is it's highly unlikely to incapacitate an assailant and much more likely to escalate the situation.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Sam said:


> Well, maybe your right, we should all look away, dont get invovled, and just keep moving. I dont know if I could let someone get hurt or kidnapped and do nothing.


I don't understand why folks keep saying I'm advocating doing nothing because I mention that a slingshot is not a good tool to use to stop a mugging. I am advocating doing something better (than being a slingshot sniper), not doing nothing. I guess I'll just write this off to people not reading what I've written,and let it go at that without posting further in this thread.
[/quote]
No I pretty much agree with what you've said, it would be wrong to condone a slingshot as being suitable for self-defence - the reality is it's highly unlikely to incapacitate an assailant and much more likely to escalate the situation.








[/quote]

i will also have to agree, if someone is getting mugged a slingshot is going to be one of the last things i do. your best bet would be to go punch the dude in the face. pretty much a slingshot is not suposed to be your first line of protection


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

dgui said:


> And when I hit something with a slingshot you can bet its hit and no one will simpy just say ouch, their going down baby.


A bird or rabbit probably, but not a human.

With a slingshot, you're most likely talking power around 15 to 25 joules. About the same as a .177 air rifle. Compare this to a .22lr rifle, which nobody would choose for defense either, which has about 150 joules. Step this up to small handguns that are on the absolute minimum of reasonable self defense - the .380acp and .38spl - and you're already at 250 joules (TEN times your typical slingshot power). More typically carried defensive handguns - 9mm, .40s&w, .45acp - are in the 500 joule range (9mm) and 600 joules for the .40 and the .45. The .357mag is pushing 1000 joules.

Any handgun is not really considered a "sure manstopper", but the .357mag at 900 to 1000 joules is probably the closest. And that's only if using good expansion hollowpoint bullets. A 15-25 joule slingshot with non-expanding projectiles certainly does not guarrantee "they're going down baby". It guarrantees an "ouch". If you're good, you might get an "ouch+". But it would take phenominal luck to incapacitate a human.


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

Some of you guys need to check out your the laws of the land before shooting someone for stealing a purse. Sissy or not, jail is a **** !


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

peresh said:


> Some of you guys need to check out your the laws of the land before shooting someone for stealing a purse. Sissy or not, jail is a **** !


That's another of the points I've been trying to make (along with other posters here too). Thanks for reinforcing it. Just because I legally carry a firearm does not mean I can use it for any purpose I want, not matter how morally obligated I may feel. The same goes for knives, slingshots, archery equipment, etc. This is really focused on by snakeshack's post about his intervention in that "rape/kidnapping" in the bank parking lot. That situation certainly sounds like a pretty good justification to intervene at an extreme level - a woman screaming rape and kidnapping. Even intervention at a deadly level if required. But as it turned out, snakeshack was turned on and attacked by the "victim". Good thing he didn't shoot the "assailant" to avoid being called a sissy. He responded in a responsible way, the same type of thing I am advocating. You need to be ready to escalate your response if the situation escalates, but YOU don't want to be the one doing the initial escalation. That same thought process holds true if you are considering escalating things with a slingshot, or a firearm. Don't do it. Be smarter than that in your response.


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## Gandolphin (Jun 28, 2010)

as long as the mugger focuses on the money and doesn't harm anyone i won't even say a word to him,
but if he hurts someone and ill have a good reason legally to get his eyes out i wont miss the chance


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

haertig said:


> Some of you guys need to check out your the laws of the land before shooting someone for stealing a purse. Sissy or not, jail is a **** !


That's another of the points I've been trying to make (along with other posters here too). Thanks for reinforcing it. Just because I legally carry a firearm does not mean I can use it for any purpose I want, not matter how morally obligated I may feel. The same goes for knives, slingshots, archery equipment, etc. This is really focused on by snakeshack's post about his intervention in that "rape/kidnapping" in the bank parking lot. That situation certainly sounds like a pretty good justification to intervene at an extreme level - a woman screaming rape and kidnapping. Even intervention at a deadly level if required. But as it turned out, snakeshack was turned on and attacked by the "victim". Good thing he didn't shoot the "assailant" to avoid being called a sissy. He responded in a responsible way, the same type of thing I am advocating. You need to be ready to escalate your response if the situation escalates, but YOU don't want to be the one doing the initial escalation. That same thought process holds true if you are considering escalating things with a slingshot, or a firearm. Don't do it. Be smarter than that in your response.
[/quote]
You've taken the words right out of my mouth mate, a firearm should only ever be used as a last resort - when all other alternatives have been exhausted. Too bad we can't carry them over here!


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## frosty2 (Aug 23, 2010)

I have read a great many of these "what would you do if" self-defense or defense-of-other scenarios and have concluded that that generalities provided as answers are fairly useless. Actual attacks are violently quick and very specific. You will react with the mindset you have developed over a lifetime and probably not concocted some new plan based on an analysis of the facts -- there is no time. You will let your values be your guide. I will risk jail before I risk death. I will risk jail before I allow the death of an innocent. Would I pop a mugger with a slingshot to stop a mugging? Perhaps, but I won't know for sure until I am faced with that situation. I have a CHL and I am generally always armed.
frosty2


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

frosty2 said:


> I have read a great many of these "what would you do if" self-defense or defense-of-other scenarios and have concluded that that generalities provided as answers are fairly useless. Actual attacks are violently quick and very specific. You will react with the mindset you have developed over a lifetime and probably not concocted some new plan based on an analysis of the facts -- there is no time. You will let your values be your guide. I will risk jail before I risk death. I will risk jail before I allow the death of an innocent. Would I pop a mugger with a slingshot to stop a mugging? Perhaps, but I won't know for sure until I am faced with that situation. I have a CHL and I am generally always armed.
> frosty2


Wise words.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

frosty2 said:


> I have read a great many of these "what would you do if" self-defense or defense-of-other scenarios and have concluded that that generalities provided as answers are fairly useless. Actual attacks are violently quick and very specific. You will react with the mindset you have developed over a lifetime and probably not concocted some new plan based on an analysis of the facts -- there is no time. You will let your values be your guide. I will risk jail before I risk death. I will risk jail before I allow the death of an innocent. Would I pop a mugger with a slingshot to stop a mugging? Perhaps, but I won't know for sure until I am faced with that situation. I have a CHL and I am generally always armed.
> frosty2


What do you carry?


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## frosty2 (Aug 23, 2010)

Sam said:


> I have read a great many of these "what would you do if" self-defense or defense-of-other scenarios and have concluded that that generalities provided as answers are fairly useless. Actual attacks are violently quick and very specific. You will react with the mindset you have developed over a lifetime and probably not concocted some new plan based on an analysis of the facts -- there is no time. You will let your values be your guide. I will risk jail before I risk death. I will risk jail before I allow the death of an innocent. Would I pop a mugger with a slingshot to stop a mugging? Perhaps, but I won't know for sure until I am faced with that situation. I have a CHL and I am generally always armed.
> frosty2


What do you carry?
[/quote]
I carry, depending dress and activities, either my .380 Keltec, My FEG PA-63 in 9X18 Makarov or the big boy my Colt Officers model .45 ACP.
When I was explaining my carrying to a friend the other day he asked me if I was "planing to shoot somebody." I explained that the plan is never to shoot somebody, it is to not get shot. Oregon for all it's unfortunate liberal tendencies, is still a fairly gun friendly state. 
frosty2


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

I relate carrying a gun to a spare tire in your car.You carry a spare all the time and hope you never have to use it.But when you need it you need it bad.Same as a gun.


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## frosty2 (Aug 23, 2010)

Jaybird said:


> I relate carrying a gun to a spare tire in your car.You carry a spare all the time and hope you never have to use it.But when you need it you need it bad.Same as a gun.


That's right Jaybird. But I hope I never need my gun as often as I've needed a spare. Basically, if enough people actively resist the criminal, criminality will become more difficult and less frequent. I will not go away but anything that reduces the number of victims is good.
frosty2


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