# Ammo Type and Effect



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

This is certainly not a scientific study, but I thought some might be interested. I was going through my jacket pockets today, and I fished out a bunch of stones I have picked up to use with my slingshots. In an idle moment, I got to wondering about the different effects of various types of ammo. Here are the things I tried:










On the left is a 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) steel ball, weighing 55 gr (3.6 gm). Next is a cast lead .46 caliber (11.7 mm) ball, weighing 124 gr (8 gm). Then on the right is the handful of stones I picked up. As you can see, they are about an inch (25 mm) on their longest dimension. They weigh between 200 and 300 gr (13-19 gm). For the heck of it, I thought I would see what the effect of each type of ammo would be on a free standing soda can.










All the cans were uniform and undented before being shot. The can on the left was shot with the steel ball. There is a nice clean hole into and out of the can, with very little deformation. The can second from the left was shot with the lead. Again, there was a through and through hole, but the holes were more torn than clean, and you can see there is more deformation of the can; it sort of folded inward where the ball tore through. The three cans on the right were all shot with stones. The can in the middle has a large hole torn out of the side, but with a clear entry and exit. The can second from the right was perforated in the front, but retained the stone; but you can see the can is very crumpled. The can on the extreme right was also punctured in the front, but was completely collapsed around the stone.

Naturally there are several things going on here. The stones are more massive, and so, although moving more slowly, they are conveying more energy and more momentum. But their surface area is significantly larger than the ball ammo, so they tend to do a greater amount of damage than either the lead or the steel.

I would suggest that this confirms the observations of several on this list that stones are very good hunting ammo, if one is looking for blunt force trauma as opposed to penetration. Of course at long distances, stones will not be as accurate as round balls. However, many do not shoot at game at distances over which differences in accuracy would come into play.

Cheers ....... Charles


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Good idea, love the pictures!


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## bbshooter (Jun 3, 2010)

I have used your demonstration to show people how lethal a slingshot can be. From the same slingshot, a .177 cal bb will put a neat little hole in an aluminum can, but a 3/4 inch rock will rip a large hole such as your can #3.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

nice evaluation professor charles.


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## e~shot (Jun 3, 2010)

Good post Charles


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

That was interesting. There is a guy named Nico on here who has been telling us the same thing for years, now.

The next thing you can do is try the same exact test only changing the bands.

Great, simply understood post Charles. Thank you.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Thanks all for your kind comments.

I was thinking specifically of Nico and Bootneck when I did this little experiment. Personally, the VAST majority of things I have killed with a slingshot were killed with stones. When I am out just plinking around, I shoot stones because I am too cheap to fire away ball ammo. It seems I reserve ball ammo for target shooting, where I can recover it.

These days I think the utility of stones for hunting is seriously underrated. In addition to being cheap and readily available most everywhere, stones inflict serious trauma.

Cheers ....... Charles


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## bootneck (Feb 20, 2011)

Very good explanation and pictures there Charles you've shown the value of stones there and provided good pictures too.

Now for hunting senario's you can imagine those can's as little rabbit rib cages full of of little internal organs, the crushed one's having squashed the bunnys little heart and lung's and all that displaced blood and fluids rushing up and damaging the brain and causing massive shock everywhere stopping the bunny nice and quick, the cans with the hole's in being rib cages will still kill just not so quick.

I like how you use balls for targets too, i like to do alot of stump shooting whenever im out if i took lead or steel out for a days stump shooting i'd need alot of money and some pretty big pockets.

Nothings right or wrong though aslong as the shooter enjoy's shooting whatever he/she shoots


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## BIG-B (Sep 16, 2011)

Thanks for taking the time to share this with us Charles


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## lobodog2 (Nov 10, 2010)

Charles, I Always enjoy your posts!! But, this one poses a real question...Which ammo would/do you prefer? I mean if you had an unlimited source. Penetration vs. Complete Destruction?? I remember as a kid, my Dad and I would gather small round stones specifically for slingshot ammo, but now, I think I would go for a more uniform ammo.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

lobodog2 said:


> Charles, I Always enjoy your posts!! But, this one poses a real question...Which ammo would/do you prefer? I mean if you had an unlimited source. Penetration vs. Complete Destruction?? I remember as a kid, my Dad and I would gather small round stones specifically for slingshot ammo, but now, I think I would go for a more uniform ammo.


So much depends on what I am hunting. If I am hunting bull frogs, I would probably go for 3/8 inch steel ... because I want it to penetrate any water and frogs are pretty soft game. And I do not like to use lead around water. For squirrels, I would prefer at least .50 caliber lead ... those guys are really tough, and I want something that is going to hit them very hard. Squirrels are usually not so far away, say up a tree, so I am more likely to get a head or neck shot. For rabbits or birds, I would opt for stones ... rabbits and birds are easier to kill than squirrels, and I am probably more likely to hit them with a body shot ... at least that reflects my past hunting experience ... rabbits and birds are usually harder for me to get really close and bird heads are pretty small, so I am more likely to miss the head and hit the body. With a stone, the body shot will be completely disabling without doing too much damage to the meat.

Having said all that, I am more likely to just be opportunistic with a slingshot. I just go strolling about, and if I happen to see something I take a shot. In that case I will almost always be using stones. Or I might be out deer hunting and happen on some grouse or other small game ... I carry a small slinghsot in my pocket, and I try to keep a few stones in my jacket pocket. It is funny ... if I put balls, lead or steel, in my pocket, they tend to disappear, but stones seem to stay there forever!!!





















Must be one of those weird laws of nature ...

Cheers ..... Charles


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## lobodog2 (Nov 10, 2010)

Excellent Response Charles!!! Thanks!!


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## Ry-shot (Jul 22, 2011)

great explanation !!!!


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Things to consider:
Energy delivery: As long as the projectile delivers all its momentum and the effect of the momentum/penetration is systemic/ applied to a critical body system then the projectile has done its job. I think a good test is whether a projectile that hits the target area does not completely exit the body or become lodged under the skin on the exit side.
Nature of wound track - is a stab wound or blunt trauma the more effective where the projectile hits?
Mass of the projectile - a heavy rock will deliver more energy from a bandset than a lighter BB.

To be clear, I'm not saying that steel or lead ball is better or worse than rocks, and I am not disputing anyone's findings. I think both have their place, both kinds can be used and which works better depends on many things, including where the projectile hits, angle of incidence and many more factors.


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

Charles said:


> I would suggest that this confirms the observations of several on this list that stones are very good hunting ammo, if one is looking for blunt force trauma as opposed to penetration. Of course at long distances, stones will not be as accurate as round balls.


I believe this is why Joerg promotes the use of large balls, often over 3/4". They impart a huge amount of trauma any fly pretty straight.

PS. Whaddayaknow. Canadians DO drink Canada Dry Ginger Ale! I always figured that the name was just something to get people in the USA to buy it... kind-of like Canadian Bacon.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

NightKnight said:


> PS. Whaddayaknow. Canadians DO drink Canada Dry Ginger Ale! I always figured that the name was just something to get people in the USA to buy it... kind-of like Canadian Bacon.


To my mind, the best tasting ginger ale ever was Vernors Ginger Ale which was made in Detroit. For many, many years you could not buy it much of anywhere else but the Detroit area. I suppose that by now they have either shut down or been sold to some big bottling outfit that changed the taste by adding gobs of corn syrup and lord only knows what else.

Cheers ....... Charles


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## fishjunkie (Sep 10, 2011)

i love to hunt with stones the size and shape equal blunt force = very dead anamal 
shoot the same size and shape stone you can get quite accurate


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## Vekta (Sep 5, 2011)

Hmm...I think I've been using stones that are too small. Those are some really devastating hits with stones. This is a good thing though. There is a huge 2 acre lot next to my college that's one huge gravel pit. I think I'll be taking a bag with me next time I'm off to class.


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Yeah ... just pick up a bunch. You want them pretty uniform in shape ... roughly round or oval, definitely not flat. Try to sort them with respect to size so that you are shooting roughly the same size as much as possible. After a while you sort of get the feel of them and can adjust you aim a bit to compensate for the heavier or lighter stones. But at decent distances (say 10 meters), the differences will be pretty minimal. If you are going to shoot stones a lot, you will want to use a larger pouch ... not one of those tiny things that will barely wrap around a pea!

Cheers ... Charles


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## johnny_canuck (Oct 16, 2011)

I just bought glass "stones" at the dollar store today. They are flat on one side and oval on the other side. One quarter inch deep, 1/2"X3/4". Fifty in a bag for a dollar. Have not shot any yet, but feels real good in the pouch.


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## johnny_canuck (Oct 16, 2011)

Should have typed 1/2"X3/4" size.


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## rabbit22 (Dec 19, 2011)

i found this a very good read charles.
as to when i was a kid all we had was stones & mum did know we had a catty or she would have gone mental.but i think im going to have to go down the local scrap yard get some bb.s from out of the cars.saves a fortune buying lead balls from gun shops over here.as im not sure ware to get a mould from to cast my own.but if any one does know please let me know.

regards dave


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

@Johny: I will be interested in your experience with those globs of glass. I always avoided the flattened ones, thinking they would be somewhat inaccurate. So I do not have any real experience there. I have seen both marbles and those flattened glass thingies in second hand stores pretty cheap.

@Rabbit 22: You might check for wheel weights and lead flashing at the scrap dealers. You can cut the wheel weights into chunks with a hammer and chisel. The lead flashing can be cut into narrow strips and then rolled into cylinders which shoot quite well. If you can score hex nuts, they make good ammo. If you have a way to cut scrap rebar into short lengths, that works very well. When I am out just messing about, I always use stones ... I hate shooting away my money!

Cheers ...... Charles


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Just want to add that if you live in an area where limestone dominates, as I do, you can look for square-ish rocks. Most limestone (driveway rock, etc.) is flat and sharp but if you get it when it's newer (at new road construction sites, for example) you can find lots of good sized square pieces that shoot really good and do lots of damage.
It's still not ideal as limestone seems to be light weight for it's size compared to many stones, but it still works for ammo if you want it to.


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