# My first self made effort is totally unpredictable. Help!!!!



## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

I've recently finished my first slingshot. It's a natural fork. I made the bandset myself and put it on myself. Having fired the thing about 50 times I can safely say that something is wrong somewhere. It's totally unpredictable. I'm getting fork hits, backfires and total inaccuracy. I dont think it's my shooting technique as I have a Barnet and a Gamekeeper
and I can shoot accurately with those. The Slingshot itself seems nice and balanced and the forks are reasonably symmetrical. I think I've done a reasonable job on the bandset.

Here are some pictures of the slingshot and bandset. Can anyone see anything that might be causing it to misfire so badly?


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

It could be your pouch it looks a bit big and stuff, jeff


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## kobe23 (Jun 28, 2010)

Forkhits due to low fork, you will need to shoot the 'flip style', unlike the barnet or game keeper as one is braced and both have wide fork.

Another issue is as Jeff mentioned, most probably the direction of the band-pouch attachment. Try to read up(if you could get it) abit on the *Slingshot Shooting* [Paperback]. *Jack* H. Koehler , much question answered in the book =D


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## e~shot (Jun 3, 2010)

It looks inner fork (fork to fork) width is too narrow. I recommend at least 5cm (2").


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

kobe23 said:


> Forkhits due to low fork, you will need to shoot the 'flip style', unlike the barnet or game keeper as one is braced and both have wide fork.
> 
> Another issue is as Jeff mentioned, most probably the direction of the band-pouch attachment. Try to read up(if you could get it) abit on the *Slingshot Shooting* [Paperback]. *Jack* H. Koehler , much question answered in the book =D


Thanks for the info on that book. I'll see if I can get it. I think I know what you mean by "flip style" I think I've seen it in some of Joerg's Slowmo videos. Is it when you flip the slinghot forward at the same moment you release the pouch? It looks very hard to get the timing right.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

That narrow throat and low fork is a tough slingshot to learn how to shoot on. But I don't think there's anything wrong with your slingshot. You just need to learn how to flip shoot.


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## mckee (Oct 28, 2010)

as soon as you realease the pouch move your flip it forwards to allow to pouch to pass over it!


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

Pouch is a bit long, I would trim it down a bit maybe 6cm or 7cm long, As stated try to "flip" it.

If you cant get the hang of flipping it you can also go the Dgui method in which you draw your ammo back, Turn the pouch 1/4 of a turn and let it fly, The momentum from the turn throws the projectile over the forks and prevents fork hits.

Cheers


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## kobe23 (Jun 28, 2010)

Gib said:


> Pouch is a bit long, I would trim it down a bit maybe 6cm or 7cm long, As stated try to "flip" it.
> 
> If you cant get the hang of flipping it you can also go the Dgui method in which you draw your ammo back, Turn the pouch 1/4 of a turn and let it fly, The momentum from the turn throws the projectile over the forks and prevents fork hits.
> 
> Cheers


Yes, with big pouches it means wider fork width and length. Joerg did mentioned in one of his videos about the 'T-shaped' slingshot he made. With stronger bands, more force is needed to support the fork, therefore when pouch is released(no pulling force), you would probably flip the fork without forcing yourself to do so. When you master the 'flip style', you could shoot with a slingshot without forks, or easier said, a 'stickshot'


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## kobe23 (Jun 28, 2010)

A page from Jack's Slingshot shooting, have a look


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## kobe23 (Jun 28, 2010)

However, your natural looked AWESOME cave! Good work!

P.S. Is the design carved?

Edit: so it's pyrography, just read on your other post. Very Nice.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

It looks like one side of the bands is slightly longer and all it takes is a little difference to cause erratic shots and OTT will enchance that erratic shooting.

I didnt grow up shooting Over the Top style its alien to my shooting style but the few I have shot made by the experts of that style ( one made by Baumstamm another by Flatband) like this have shown me they are easy to upset their flight if not aligned properly.

Nico


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## Xidoo (Aug 14, 2010)

Cave-dweller.
I think you have to use the flip method and as Nico stated, if you have a side of the slingshot larger than the other that would cause problems too. Simply take you slingshot by the the middle of the pouch and see how it hangs by itself. Check the balance and correct any size that is too long or twist. 
I know a guy who has a very narrow slingshot and very small and uses a very large pouch, yet he does not have fork hits. He always flips, which you can not do it with your other slingshots. I hope this helps. Saludos.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Ahem. . . Pardon me, but didn't dgui dispel the notion of uneven bands being the cause of misses?


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## colt (Jun 8, 2010)

it's all in the release. watch some dgui videos. they really helped me, i had the same problem.


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> Ahem. . . Pardon me, but didn't dgui dispel the notion of uneven bands being the cause of misses?


Yeah... for him,
dgui is a freakishly good shooter but sometimes I think the things he comes up with only apply to himself.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

You might want to concider putting a set of gypsy tabs on it, I had one that I was having some problems with and once I got tabs on it, it shot just fine...


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

M_J said:


> Ahem. . . Pardon me, but didn't dgui dispel the notion of uneven bands being the cause of misses?


Yeah... for him,
dgui is a freakishly good shooter but sometimes I think the things he comes up with only apply to himself.
[/quote]

MJ, If those bands are just a teeny weeny bit unbalanced (which seems to be the case) how can they possibly be the cause of such mayhem? Just watch how much Darrell changes them and think about it.

Darrell has opened my eyes to a lot of things about shooting. I can't shoot with the pouch twist the way that he does due to physical problems with my hand, but his debunking of so many apparently wrong assumptions has improved my shooting immensely. When he demonstrates that skewed fork or different band lengths don't really affect the shot that much -- that means everybody. Just look at the way he does it. In my mind you can't come away from studying his debunkings and still believe the falsity he's just exposed. It doesn't mean that one has to shoot the same way he does. It just gives you a better understanding of what's going on -- and more importantly, what's not, that's all.


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## jskeen (Feb 7, 2011)

I had the same type of problems at first, even though all my first forks were wider than yours. I think that most of the problems that cause them tend to correct themselves with practice. I do tend to use dgui's twist the pouch technique now, and have not had many problems since then, but it may just have been about that time I got a to that magic amount of practice in as well. I think that flipping the frame can be a valid method to combat the problem as well, but I have never been able to use it.

A large rigid pouch does seem to aggravate the problem for me, so I would suggest you try something smaller and thinner for now. A set of tabs may well help out as well, but it may just be easier to make a new frame for them than to refit that one (or not, depends on how many you plan to make in the future).


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## dudemeister (Mar 28, 2011)

I've had a similar situation. I don't think the problem is band length, I think its the way you have the bands tied to the forks. I have a natural that I made that is cut the same way - the ends of the forks are not cut square but on an angle making a straight line across the top of the slingshot. The problem might be that you've tied the bands on square across the fork which means they are pulling on the bands unevenly since the ends of the forks are not square. I did the same thing when I tied bands on mine and when I fixed it it got better noticably. It seemed weird to me too, but the bands need to be centered on and square with the fork tips even if they are not square across the forks. If you made the grooves for band attachment parallel with the fork tips the bands will pull evenly, or cut the fork tips square across the fork making them parallel with your existing grooves. This is just what worked for me(I still suck, but it's not the catty's fault LOL). It's a beauty of a fork you've got there and I hope you get it working. Love the carving too! 
dudemeister


Cave-dweller said:


> I've recently finished my first slingshot. It's a natural fork. I made the bandset myself and put it on myself. Having fired the thing about 50 times I can safely say that something is wrong somewhere. It's totally unpredictable. I'm getting fork hits, backfires and total inaccuracy. I dont think it's my shooting technique as I have a Barnet and a Gamekeeper
> and I can shoot accurately with those. The Slingshot itself seems nice and balanced and the forks are reasonably symmetrical. I think I've done a reasonable job on the bandset.
> 
> Here are some pictures of the slingshot and bandset. Can anyone see anything that might be causing it to misfire so badly?
> ...


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

Nico said:


> It looks like one side of the bands is slightly longer and all it takes is a little difference to cause erratic shots and OTT will enchance that erratic shooting.
> 
> I didnt grow up shooting Over the Top style its alien to my shooting style but the few I have shot made by the experts of that style ( one made by Baumstamm another by Flatband) like this have shown me they are easy to upset their flight if not aligned properly.
> 
> Nico


Yeah. When I made up the bandset I made sure that the lengths of both sides where absolutely even. When I put the bandset on I was also very careful to make sure that it was put on even. However I did some ergonomics on the front of the slingshot so that it fits my hand nicely when I side-shoot it (my prefered shooting style). I found that, when I put my finger in the centre of the pouch and hung the SS it looked even but when I held it in the side-shooting position it was off by about 3/4 of an inch. It's weird. Anyway, I decided to undo the bind for the longer side and shorten it. I judged it by holding the slingshot out in the side-shooting position and drawingthe bandset back to the point just before it begins to stretch and then I adjusted accordingly.

I've noticed that when I twist the slingshot forward slightly (using my wrist, the same action as twisting the throttle grip on a motorbike) ,so that the top fork is slightly forward of the bottom one, I get a more accurate shot but it's very tempermental and hard to judge.


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

kobe23 said:


> However, your natural looked AWESOME cave! Good work!
> 
> P.S. Is the design carved?
> 
> Edit: so it's pyrography, just read on your other post. Very Nice.


Thanks and thanks for the info from that book. That's useful.


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

kobe23 said:


> However, your natural looked AWESOME cave! Good work!
> 
> P.S. Is the design carved?
> 
> Edit: so it's pyrography, just read on your other post. Very Nice.


Thanks.


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## kobe23 (Jun 28, 2010)

Cave-dweller said:


> I've noticed that when I twist the slingshot forward slightly (using my wrist, the same action as twisting the throttle grip on a motorbike) ,so that the top fork is slightly forward of the bottom one, I get a more accurate shot but it's very tempermental and hard to judge.


Not hard after you shoot at least hundreds of them. Same applies to sports, say basketball, when shooting the ball it's different from every location ( force, angle, projection ) but after years of practice, no problem


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## BullsEyeBen (Apr 21, 2011)

Pouch.. Too thick too big.. Try tilting the frame slightly forward as releasing shot to get a wrist flip.


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

harpersgrace said:


> You might want to concider putting a set of gypsy tabs on it, I had one that I was having some problems with and once I got tabs on it, it shot just fine...


Yes, I read jmplsnt's blog on gypsy tabs. They do seem to be a good idea. Does anyone know of any youtube tutorials or anything on this website where a greenhorn might learn how to do this properly?


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

Thanks everyone for the useful comments, information and suggestions. It's cool how when you ask a question on a forum like this about a solution to a problem you often get answers that educate you well beyond that narrow focus of the question you innitially asked. So I've plenty of things to try and to learn more about.


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

Well spotted. Never thought of that.
View attachment 7840

[/quote]
[/quote]


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

dudemeister said:


> I've recently finished my first slingshot. It's a natural fork. I made the bandset myself and put it on myself. Having fired the thing about 50 times I can safely say that something is wrong somewhere. It's totally unpredictable. I'm getting fork hits, backfires and total inaccuracy. I dont think it's my shooting technique as I have a Barnet and a Gamekeeper
> and I can shoot accurately with those. The Slingshot itself seems nice and balanced and the forks are reasonably symmetrical. I think I've done a reasonable job on the bandset.
> 
> Here are some pictures of the slingshot and bandset. Can anyone see anything that might be causing it to misfire so badly?
> ...


[/quote]


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> Ahem. . . Pardon me, but didn't dgui dispel the notion of uneven bands being the cause of misses?


Yeah... for him,
dgui is a freakishly good shooter but sometimes I think the things he comes up with only apply to himself.
[/quote]

MJ, If those bands are just a teeny weeny bit unbalanced (which seems to be the case) how can they possibly be the cause of such mayhem? Just watch how much Darrell changes them and think about it.

Darrell has opened my eyes to a lot of things about shooting. I can't shoot with the pouch twist the way that he does due to physical problems with my hand, but his debunking of so many apparently wrong assumptions has improved my shooting immensely. When he demonstrates that skewed fork or different band lengths don't really affect the shot that much -- that means everybody. Just look at the way he does it. In my mind you can't come away from studying his debunkings and still believe the falsity he's just exposed. It doesn't mean that one has to shoot the same way he does. It just gives you a better understanding of what's going on -- and more importantly, what's not, that's all.
[/quote]
I was pretty tired and in a bad mood when I posted this








I too have learned things about the importance of release technique from Darrell. I didn't mean to diminish his contribution to the forum.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

Caveman, 
Jmplsnt did a detailed how too on gypsy tabs, I'll see if I can track down the link to it and post it, I'm using my phone to post right now and it's not as easy to do searches as with a computer.


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## Cave-dweller (Apr 11, 2011)

Great! Thanks.



harpersgrace said:


> Caveman,
> Jmplsnt did a detailed how too on gypsy tabs, I'll see if I can track down the link to it and post it, I'm using my phone to post right now and it's not as easy to do searches as with a computer.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

Cave-dweller
Sorry I got your name wrong, no disrespect intended. Sometimes my hand works independently of my brain, haven't got to my computer yet but will try to get the info for you when I do.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

Ok here you go, this maybe the same as is on jmp's blog I dont know, but it's as close to a step by step as there is on tabs
http://jacksshed.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=62&t=6271&sid=0da150219e9ac4fd4d8558cd302e7916


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## SteveJ (Jun 24, 2020)

Dayhiker said:


> 'M_J' said:
> 
> 
> > 'Dayhiker' said:
> ...


 Dayhiker,, I know this post is very old, but is there any link or anything where I could find Dguis explaining all this? I am a Dgui fan Or would you explain it to me??


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## Biker_Bob (Mar 26, 2020)

I gave up on flat bands because of problems exactly like this, I found it very difficult to make consistently similar band sets and I grew tired of lashing them to forks with little bits of band wrapped round and round.

I think in your case the problem is probably the pouch, it looks long and heavy and the band ties to the pouch look bulky (and hence heavy too), also as has been said the frame almost looks like a pickle fork - I design my TTF slingshots to have at least 50mm clear for the ball to pass.

There is something you could try, I have found that if my bands are too powerful for my ammunition I get hand slap as the excess energy still stored in the bands causes them to lash back after the ball is loosed. If the bands are too powerful for the ammunition they will be innacurate - so try heavier ammunition.

Whilst we're doing book recommendations I can throroughly endorse The Practical Guide to Man Powered Weapons and Ammunition by Richard Middleton. The book covers many different weapons, but there is a big section on catapults and in particular the book discusses the problems caused by heavy bands and heavy pouches.


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