# Doing Research On Linseed Oil



## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

Hello all. I have been intrigued by some of the results that have been had by some of the members here using linseed oil on their wooden frames. I decided to do a little digging around and see what I could find out about linseed and its uses and came away with some disturbing views. Here is a link that from what I can see is not pushing a product and appears to be as unbiased as I can find. I am not sure that I will be using linseed now.

http://www.naturalhandyman.com/iip/infpai/inflin.html


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## AJW (Apr 24, 2011)

All his information is no information, only negative slanted statements applicable to most wood and all oil finishes. He is the only person I have ever heard completely negative on linseed oil, other "authorities" many much more qualified than he are positive about linseed and other oils, acknowledging the fact that there are other very efficient and some better synthetic protective products.

I have a gallon of linseed oil with no harmful additives which make it non poisonous and it's not prone to auto combustion. As for drying time, I can tell you more in a week, I have a frame beginning its third day of soaking right now. Will know about drying time soon enough.


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

He is coming from the viewpoint of a general woodworker building large scale stuff. For a slingshot that you'll be taking decent care of i.e. not leaving it out in the elements, its cost effectiveness can't be beat. Plus, the feel and patina of a well used slingshot is just dreamy.


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## Btoon84 (Nov 22, 2011)

linseed oil is awesome. i will never stop using it. i have heard of the combustion thing but that just adds a fun element of danger!


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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

To be honest the part that kind of freaked me out was the carcinogens he mentioned. I will have to really look at the hazards before I saturate something I that will be in contact with my skin for periods of time. Like I said, I was just doing research for my own use and would never ask anyone to stop using something they favor. I found the part about the drying time and remaining tacky interesting having never used that material. We will see I guess.


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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

From what I am reading (not just the link above) there are the two types: raw and boiled. What kind are folks here using for their frames. After looking at the MSDS for the raw varient it is listed as no carcinogens so that is good, but is that the type that is used? For the boiled the MSDS varied from manufacturer to manufacturer with some listing carcinogens and others not so on the boiled it looks like you have to read the warnings associated with the brand if that is the type being used.

http://www.cargill.com/wcm/groups/public/@ccom/documents/document/iol-msds-astm-raw-linseed.pdf

Sorry for the questions but I do like the look that linseed gives the frames I have seen but if it is a health hazard I will have to pass. So I guess the question is raw or boiled?


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

Most people buff the piece with beeswax too


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## Btoon84 (Nov 22, 2011)

ive always used boiled here. and i don't know about carcinogens.... i apply it with my bare hands too... so that would suck. but i just doubt the carcinogen thing....


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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

Every manufacturer has an MSDS sheet available at their website. Easy enough to find out.


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## Jakerock (Mar 8, 2012)

http://woodworking.com/ww/Article/Boiled_Linseed_Oil_Toxic__7448.aspx

The brand I have been using "Sunnyside BLO" Material Safety Data Sheet:
http://www.sunnysidecorp.com/pdf/msds872.pdf

Section 6: "Health Hazard Data"
Skin Contact: Sensitive individual may experience dermatitis.

I just wash my hands after applying it...


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

I use gloves. Duh.


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## Jakerock (Mar 8, 2012)




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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

Jakerock said:


> http://woodworking.c...oxic__7448.aspx
> 
> The brand I have been using "Sunnyside BLO" Material Safety Data Sheet:
> http://www.sunnyside...pdf/msds872.pdf
> ...


_Section 11_
_California Proposition 65: This product contains chemicals known to the state of California to cause cancer, and birth defects or other reproductive harm._

I guess that is my next question. When linseed oil "dries" is it completely dry or is it like every other oil I have used and still oily? After reading it outloud I know it sounds like a stupid question but I am just curious.


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## Jakerock (Mar 8, 2012)

I wish that these warnings were a bit more clear.
Like, what type of exposure in what amount for what length of time cause what kinds of cancer and who did the research.
Also, what other substances are on California's list?

It doesnt make me take it lightly, but it is so unspecific that it has little informative value. It only incites a reason to do more research into the specifics.

Also, rubber gloves are cheap!


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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

I agree. I worked with a lot of exotic chemicals while in the military and always use the proper PPE. But you just never know with these chemicals. All MSDS testing is supposed to meet OSHA requirements but who really knows how long it would take if it ever happened in the first place. No different than someone smoking. A person could get cancer in a matter of years or live their entire life with no issue. I alway opt on the safe side, which is why I was curious about how the linseed dries.


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## Jakerock (Mar 8, 2012)

Yeah... This is making me a little shy about BLO.
The Cobalt, manganese, and diethylene glycol are in very small amounts in BLO all less than 5%, but still.
I am giving some thought to using the raw stuff.
And having to learn patience while it dries could be character building.
...now I am wondering about the polyurethane too.


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

I'm having a hard time finding the raw oil.


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## Sofreto (May 10, 2012)

Amazon has the raw oil...


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## HopefulHunter (Oct 15, 2011)

When you start looking into it, almost everything we use industrially contains carcinogens. I remember seeing somewhere that more common methods for curing bacon leave carcinogens on the meat, meaning that delicious sarnie is even worse for you than previously thought. But as has been said above, the warnings are so flimsy, lacking in figures and any real kind of advice, that it becomes all too tempting to just ignore them. Which as a matter of fact is what I do. If it's 'Light Use' I don't stress about it, life's too short. Of course for something like spending 20minutes+ running a beltsander i'll use PPE etc.

That's a point. Wood dust is carcinogenic too. Hate to worry people









Eddie.


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## bootneck (Feb 20, 2011)

I don't know if its any better but i use teak oil, that dry's out quickly and as far as im aware has never done me any harm


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## Ordie69 (Aug 25, 2011)

All good points. The reason I raised the question in the first place isn't because I am trying to cause a panic. I have watched countless "instructional" videos, here and on youtube, on using boiled linseed oil as well as other chemicals, where the "instructor" uses no PPE at all. After a quarter century in the military and using some pretty exotic chemicals, and seeing the negative long term effects of the "light use" chemicals, I decided to research this for my own use. I think that any community such as this, where there are folks new to wood working and chemical use, it is wrong to not at least consider the negative health effects these things can have. Face it, many people get into a hobby like this with little to no training in safety or PPE. Like I said above, I am not trying to disuade anyone from using whatever their hearts desire. I was just sharing information that I found interesting for myself and has not been highligted in any instructional video I have seen.

This was not intended to challenge anyone beliefs or change anyones minds; simply information.


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Very interesting. I suppose I have always thought kindly of linseed, but the difference in odor between "boiled" and "raw" is night and day. That must mean the boiled contains more volatile compounds, and the subsequent ill health affects. Good thing I don't live in California....


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## ERdept (Jun 10, 2010)

flippinout said:


> Very interesting. I suppose I have always thought kindly of linseed, but the difference in odor between "boiled" and "raw" is night and day. That must mean the boiled contains more volatile compounds, and the subsequent ill health affects. Good thing I don't live in California....


Haha, that's right. I tried to order some two part boat varnish (Epifanes) that some of the best boat builders use, and the website said it doesn't ship to California.

We suck.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

It looks like *Helman's Spar Urethane *can cause cancer too. Check the "Directions".
Flammable, harmful vapour, can cause nervous system damage, birth defects, cancer, permanent brain damage, and death. 
http://www.minwax.ca...n-spar-urethane

I have a can of *Minwax Antique Oil Finish *and it says the cancer warning and vapour warnings too.

Even some floor cancer causing chemicals.
http://environment.about.com/od/greenlivingdesign/a/floor_wax.htm

I wonder if any oil finish is 100% safe. Maybe gunstock finishes such as Tru-Oil and LinSpeed would be okay?

Cheers,
Northerner


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## capnjoe (Jun 3, 2012)

I use walnut oil.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

*Watco Danish Oil *also has the cancer warning on the can.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## Natty Fork (Jul 18, 2012)

Keep in mind that EVERYTHING causes cancer in the state of California


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## HopefulHunter (Oct 15, 2011)

Anyone thought about looking up latex for similar problems?


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Also, is CA finish safe for handling over long periods of time?


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

I use raw linseed oil. I have been using on our wooden spoons for yrs. I eat ground flax seed from the same plant because it's a good plant source of omega 3 fatty acids. I have also used flax seed oil for cooking.

I don't use boiled linseed oil, but I have actually boiled raw linseed oil and used it (it's thicker).


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

if your all worried about soaking it through your skin, just use gloves all the time . latex , rubber, neoprene and so on type of gloves to apply and garden , mechanic, welding or other sort of gloves to shoot with .


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## Incomudro (Jan 12, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> I use raw linseed oil. I have been using on our wooden spoons for yrs. I eat ground flax seed from the same plant because it's a good plant source of omega 3 fatty acids. I have also used flax seed oil for cooking.
> 
> I don't use boiled linseed oil, but I have actually boiled raw linseed oil and used it (it's thicker).


Apparently raw linseed oil is just that - oil.
Flaxseed oil.
You can cook with it, and consume it - it's full of those omega 3's!

Commercial "boiled" linseed oil isn't really boiled.
It's full of all that other crap.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Doesn't raw linseed oil take weeks or months to completely dry? I think that's why products such as Tru-Oil, LinSpeed and Danish Oil were developed. They are basically linseed oil with varnish or other agents added to reduce drying time.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

http://www.rustoleum.ca/CBGProduct.asp?pid=66

Watco Butcher Block Oil & Finish


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Northerner said:


> Doesn't raw linseed oil take weeks or months to completely dry? I think that's why products such as Tru-Oil, LinSpeed and Danish Oil were developed. They are basically linseed oil with varnish or other agents added to reduce drying time.


Northerner, you are correct. It takes months for linseed oil to dry. But that is no reason to wait months before you use the slingshot. It feels dry in a short time. When it feels dry you can start using it. What fully "dry" means in this case is really referring to fully "cured". Linseed oil hardens as it cures and usually reaches its full hardness in about 3 months. But while this is going on, you can't even tell it's happening.

Just keep coating it until the wood doesn't want any more. Wipe off the excess. Let it dry for a day or so if you want. Polish and enjoy. The oil will still be curing but, as I say, you won't even know it's happening.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Hi Dayhiker,

The only experience that I have had with raw linseed is when a friend combined it with shellac to finish a firearm stock. The finish was still tacky after weeks.

I might have to try some raw linseed or see if I can find some pure tung oil.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## Blue Danube (Sep 24, 2011)

Good Gawd, this stuff makes me NuTs.....

Genetic predisposition, and The act of Breathing in and of itself can give you cancer, enjoy your life and hobbies....


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## Berkshire bred (Mar 4, 2012)

i use it myself to finsh my forks but i will have to warn you NEVER EVER EVER try to heat it over a flame i made this maistake and i had boiling linseed oil up my arm whitch resulted in a nice burn.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Yeah, but Blue, you don't want to go around with a sticky slingshot, do you?


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## Blue Danube (Sep 24, 2011)

Just looking at the gorgeous "Sling-Porn" posted here gives me sticky slingshots.... Hahaha!


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Blue Danube said:


> Just looking at the gorgeous "Sling-Porn" posted here gives me sticky slingshots.... Hahaha!


_*Really? . . .*_


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## Blue Danube (Sep 24, 2011)

Hahahaha! I knew that would draw a response....... ;-)

Had an absolutely great day in shop today, no sticky slingshots but some BIG strides forward on half dozen projects and tooling


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## harson (Oct 21, 2011)

Boiled linseed oil is fine dont worry about any crap you have read,i have used it for years as i was a stickmaker before getting into slings,you can mix it 50/50 with mineral spirits if you like .
here is the stickmakers guide to applying linseed oil
once a day for a week
once a week for a month 
once a month for a year
once a year for life.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

harson said:


> Boiled linseed oil is fine dont worry about any crap you have read,i have used it for years as i was a stickmaker before getting into slings,you can mix it 50/50 with mineral spirits if you like .
> here is the stickmakers guide to applying linseed oil
> once a day for a week
> once a week for a month
> ...


Very good advice, that!


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

This is a zombie thread, but I was reading it and thought "hrmm... what's the MSDS say about the oil I'm using?" section 11, basically says "it's cool, bra". https://bnnn72.ssl-cdn.s.mel.secureinf.net/Product/da4f5332-5249-45c1-afdf-dd155f9e05a0.pdf


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## Jakerock (Mar 8, 2012)

Killer MSDS dood. I am gonna deep fry a biscuit with BLO now...


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

Jakerock said:


> Killer MSDS dood. I am gonna deep fry a biscuit with BLO now...


afterwards , what type of finish will your innards have - pepto bismal ?


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

jakerock ?


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

Jakerock said:


> Yeah... This is making me a little shy about BLO.
> The Cobalt, manganese, and diethylene glycol are in very small amounts in BLO all less than 5%, but still.
> I am giving some thought to using the raw stuff.
> And having to learn patience while it dries could be character building.
> ...now I am wondering about the polyurethane too.


This is big brother government going to 'excess'. California Proposition 65 is anal retentive about micro-trace amounts of whatever substance in products that maybe, sort-of, kind-of, 'might' have harmful effects to one's health IF you were exposed to high quantities 24/7, to supposed harmful substances. 'Anything in excess' can have potential to be harmful. Even the most mundane products that are sold within California are required to have such warnings. Example - I have an outdoor tarp that has that idiotic California warning. There is really no ban here but we are forced to be subjected to an onslaught of excessive label warnings on products, causing many of the non-informed California consumers to have unnecessary paranoia.


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## The Gopher (Aug 25, 2010)

I use boiled because it is more available. The auto combustion issue is real and dangerous but very avoidable, this is the same for any "drying oil" where the curing process, ie reacting with oxygen is exothermic. As far as the carcinogens go, you could wear gloves when applying if you are worried but i don't think it would be an issue when cured, a burger that is cooked a bit to long on a grill is also full of carcinogens.


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## stej (Jan 16, 2013)

During November 2012 I left a plum fork in a pool with raw lineseed oil for one day and the lineseed oil is not dry yet. Whe I heat the fork in microwave oven, drops of oil appear.


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## jazz (May 15, 2012)

Hi all,

I will not state pros or cons, or both, related to linseed oil here since I do not know much; on the other side I use it, it works well with me so I like it.

However, I could not skip what I found in a book written by somebody who seems to know what he is saying. The book is called "Understanding Wood Finishing - How to Select and Aply the Right Finish", Rodale Press Pensilvania, and is written by Bob Flexner. Here are some quotes from the book (from page 48 onward, section: Oil Finishes):

"(There are) myths perpetuated in the books, articles and in manufacturers' advertising. Even if you are new to woodworking and are not familiar with these myths, you will no doubt encounter them. They need to be debunked.

Myth #1: Oil finishes were the favoured wood finish used by our eighteenth- and nineteenth-century predecessors.

Fact: Therre's no evidence at all that oil was a well-regarded finish until the rapid growth of the consumer market beginning in 1960s.

Myth #2: Oil finishes penetrate into the wood and protect the wood from the inside.

Fact: The penetrating qualities of oil finishes are of very little significance in protecting wood.

Myth #3: All finishes sold as "oil" are some type of oil.

Fact: There are four significantly different types of finish that are sold as "oil". Not all are oil."

... "One of the primary realizations for using oil as finsih is that eighteenth- and nineteenth-century craftspeople used and valued oil for finishing - especialy linseed oil. If you've done much woodworking, you surely developed a profound respect for our ancestors' woodworking skills. It i snot a big jump to assume that if these craftspeople were so good at woodworking they must also have been good finishers. And if they used linseed oil, they must have chosen to do so because linseed oil made a great finish.

The idea that our forebears were skilled finishers pops up now and then in woodworking books and articles. It's otfen bolstered by the suggestion that if you follow their practice or rubbing coats of linseed oil into the wood once a day for a week, once a week for a month, once a month for a year, and then once every year thereafter, you will produce one of the most beautiful and durable finishes possible - maybe even better than anything that has been invented since.

This is all myth:


It's myth that our ancestors thought linseed oil was a great finsih. They used linseed oli, of course. It was cheap, compared to other finsihes, and it was available. But there is no evidence from survivnig reccords, such as cabinet makers' account books, that linseed oil was well thought of as a finsih. On the contrary, most of the finer, eightteenth-century, city-made furniture, and almost all nineteenth-century, factory-made furniture, was finsihed with shellac or varnish.
It's myth that our predecessors expended much effort applying linseed oil when did use it. Rubbing linseed oil into the wood does absolutely no good. There is some mention in cabinetmaklers' account books of rubbing linseed oil, in combination with brick dust or pumice, to fill the pores of wood. But you have to get into the twentieth century before you find written refference to anyone in the nineteenth century rubbing oil alone into wood. (How could the writers have known?)
It is even myth that eighteenth- and nineteenth-century woodworkers were skilled finishers by today's standards. Surviving cabinetmakers' account books indicate that only minimal attention was given to finisheing wood. Finishing is a twentieth-century craft.

So, the fact that our predecessors used oil now and then as a finsih is no reason for us to use oil - especially linseed oil. They used linseed oil when they had nothing better. We have entire array of finishes that are better in almost every way."

"... The only possible advantage gained by filling the wood with finsih is to stabilise the wood from shrinkage and swelling caused by water-vapour exchange. You plasticize the wood by filling all the cavities with cured finish. But if you are looking for a finsih to provide protection to the surface, the amount that a finish penetrates is of no significance."

- End of quotes -

I guess that the author here has mostly on his mind protection of wood from scratches and othe damage to the surface. I found all these parts a bit confusing to me, he does have some points to make, but I am still not convinced to drop linseed oil from use.

cheers,

jazz


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## ZorroSlinger (Dec 12, 2012)

stej said:


> During November 2012 I left a plum fork in a pool with raw lineseed oil for one day and the lineseed oil is not dry yet. Whe I heat the fork in microwave oven, drops of oil appear.


You used raw linseed oil. There is another kind, called 'boiled linseed oil' which has additives so it dries faster. Also, others dilute the oil with turpentine so it soaks in the wood deeper & faster. You only soaked your fork in the pure oil for a day. My understanding is that it takes awhile for the oil to cure or dry. I do not know how long it takes using raw linseed oil.


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## Quercusuber (Nov 10, 2011)

Btoon84 said:


> ive always used boiled here. and i don't know about carcinogens.... i apply it with my bare hands too... so that would suck. but i just doubt the carcinogen thing....


 Either way, life is too short!!!!


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2013)

ZorroSlinger said:


> Jakerock said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah... This is making me a little shy about BLO.
> ...


Once you start giving your children psychotropic medication to make it easier for teachers to deal with them they grow up. Once they grow up everything else goes to hell in a handbasket because they vote, stupidly. OOOOPPPPSS! Did I say that out loud?


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## Guest (Jan 17, 2013)

Regarding the spontaneous combustion idea... If you want to see it, take a piece of pure cotton cloth or cotton balls and soak them in linseed oil then squeeze them out. Tie them tightly with string or into knots. Put them into a glass jar with no lid and sit them in the afternoon sun. Never seen that fail to self ignite.


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## Guest (Jan 18, 2013)

I should also add this link: http://extoxnet.orst.edu/faqs/natural/natcarc.htm


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## stej (Jan 16, 2013)

ZorroSlinger said:


> stej said:
> 
> 
> > During November 2012 I left a plum fork in a pool with raw lineseed oil for one day and the lineseed oil is not dry yet. Whe I heat the fork in microwave oven, drops of oil appear.
> ...


I know. Before I answered I had read all the thread where a lot of people had been considering raw lineseed oil because it doesn't cause cancer. Just wanted to point out that raw lineseed oil has its drawback.

And now it's time to read the quotes by jazz., because that was a long post...


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## Berkshire bred (Mar 4, 2012)

i like it because it gives a nice finish to the wood if you are patient but i also do not like it because if you leave it for to long and it goes harder you can not heat it back up because it sort of bubbles and pops and then goes everywhere, usually over you as well as i found out and had some rather painful burns.


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