# Wrap and ****!



## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

I was able to come into some amber band/tape etc. recently and I'm hoping that'll solve my issue, however, I have a question about pouch tie on that's been bugging me and am wondering what I'm doing wrong. 
After getting into my own band making I discovered the billion and one ways you could connect your flat bands to your pouch. I first started out with the crystal string stuff using my Simpleshot jig. Did it just like Nathan showed in the description videos, but after so many shots had the band slip right through through the knot, knot still intact! So then I went on to the 'ole constrictor knot because that seems to be a popular choice, tried it both with unstretched and stretched bands and after a few dozen shots, same thing..I tried cotton cord, paracord, fishing line. The knot/knots all tighten up extremely well, and trust me, I can put some torque on a knot, but still, once that flat band stretches it thins out and slips on through. The best luck I've had was with the wrap and tuck method using strips of my .5 black premium (same as the bands) but it was a bit chunky. I haven't had any issues with the amber belt yet which is why I was pining for that, but it's really got me curious what my major malfunction is here for these other techniques. My tag ends aren't trimmed very short by any means, nor are they overly long. 3/8" I'd say, give or take. Has anyone else encountered this? Is it grease from my hands possibly? 
Is there any way to make the latex "tackier"? Just thought I'd spark a little conversation and get your guys'/gals' thoughts on this conundrum. I wanna be like the cool kids and use constrictor knots too!  As a side note, I'd like to ask what you all prefer in the pouch tying methods game.


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## AppalachianFlipShooter (May 9, 2020)

I use amber belt exclusively, and haven't had any slip yet. I had the same issues with crystal string. Waxed cotton works great if you don't have amber belt though

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## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

Constrictor knots is old school. Use the Amber Belt, 3 to 5 wraps, double knot, and move on. Lighter, neater, simpler,....

Of course, you will get 100+ tips from those that don't use it, but Amber Belt and Crystal String (if you like the string stuff) represents progress and improvement in the hobby. The less mass you have in/on the bands, the faster the ammo can accelerate up to speed.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

AppalachianFlipShooter said:


> I use amber belt exclusively, and haven't had any slip yet. I had the same issues with crystal string. Waxed cotton works great if you don't have amber belt though
> 
> Sent from my IN2025 using Tapatalk





Palmettoflyer said:


> Constrictor knots is old school. Use the Amber Belt, 3 to 5 wraps, double knot, and move on. Lighter, neater, simpler,....
> 
> Of course, you will get 100+ tips from those that don't use it, but Amber Belt and Crystal String (if you like the string stuff) represents progress and improvement in the hobby. The less mass you have in/on the bands, the faster the ammo can accelerate up to speed.


Right on. Do you guys use a jig and pre-stretch your bands when using the amber belt? And cool, I didn't know that constrictor knots were out of date. The joys of combing for knowledge on YouTube lol.


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## AppalachianFlipShooter (May 9, 2020)

Sandstorm said:


> AppalachianFlipShooter said:
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> > I use amber belt exclusively, and haven't had any slip yet. I had the same issues with crystal string. Waxed cotton works great if you don't have amber belt though
> ...


I use the simple shot rig, but I want to make my own that doesn't stretch the bands as much

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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

AppalachianFlipShooter said:


> Sandstorm said:
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> > AppalachianFlipShooter said:
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Yeah I have one of those too. I think they cut the bolt a bit short on those. If it was just like an inch to an inch and a half longer it'd add more versatility. It's a 3/8-20 bolt too I believe which is kind of an odd thread count (I'm more used to seeing 3/8"-16). Gotta make a run to the hardware store and do a little diy on it. Not to knock SS though. I do like those guys.


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

*For flats at the pouch, I use Can-Opener's 1745 cuff method (@3::15) - super easy and no slippage or failures yet. *

*For tubes, cuffs usually slip at the pouch unless tied over, so I use clear ribbon (not thread) stretched very tight without cuffs - alternate a wrap and a square knot 3 times ... no problems or bulky clumps. *


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Alfred E.M. said:


> *For flats at the pouch, I use Can-Opener's 1745 cuff method (@3::15) - super easy and no slippage or failures yet. *
> 
> *For tubes, cuffs usually slip at the pouch unless tied over, so I use clear ribbon (not thread) stretched very tight without cuffs - alternate a wrap and a square knot 3 times ... no problems or bulky clumps. *


Now that's a cool and easy method. Fortunately I already have the pliers. I'd like to try that, just need some tubing.  Thanks Alfred E.M. 

(Although later, for now I have some good tape. I used a similar tying method this morning and it looks great)


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

Sandstorm said:


> Alfred E.M. said:
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> > *For flats at the pouch, I use Can-Opener's 1745 cuff method (@3::15) - super easy and no slippage or failures yet. *
> ...


*I'll mail out a couple lengths of 1745 to cut into cuffs. *


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Alfred E.M. said:


> Sandstorm said:
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Oh no no, that's quite alright. Thank you very much though. I've actually been looking into getting a tubed setup here soon (I've been eyeing the Torque) so I'll just be sure to grab up some that size as well.  But I haven't shot tubes since my wrist rocket when I was 8, so I'll have to do some research on tube to pouch sizes and whatnot.


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## Stankard757 (Apr 20, 2020)

I mainly use a length of para cord and 2 clamps around my legs as my jig. With amber same as Palmettoflyer only slip was my fault wraps were not tight enough

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## Tobor8Man (Nov 19, 2020)

Once again - ditto Mr. EM. There are a couple of cuffing vids on YouTube. It is my method of choice.


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## skarrd (Jul 20, 2011)

like Stankard,i also use the clamps/paracord method,and i Love the crystal string for pouches,although my field repair kit has thin rubber bands for tying,i still use constrictor knots,but not on slings anymore,the only slip through i ever had was with a constrictor knot


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## Palmettoflyer (Nov 15, 2019)

Here is a picture of my pouch tying jig. It is a long Plano plastic box with screw in posts for different pouch sizes. Also a picture of the pouch tied with Amber Belt.


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## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

Sounds to me like either you are not stretching the bands tight enough in the jig, or you aren't wrapping your tying material tight enough.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

SJAaz said:


> Sounds to me like either you are not stretching the bands tight enough in the jig, or you aren't wrapping your tying material tight enough.


When I read your comment the little "duh" light bulb went off in my head as to why we pre-stretch at all. If I'm stretching them at draw to the point of slippage then I obviously didn't stretch them past that point when I tied my knot. I know the knots were plenty tight so I bet the pre-stretch issue is right on the money. While doing it I was also a little unclear on the warning of what I heard referred to as "overstretch" so I probably erred too much on the side of caution.


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## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

Sandstorm said:


> SJAaz said:
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> > Sounds to me like either you are not stretching the bands tight enough in the jig, or you aren't wrapping your tying material tight enough.
> ...


Good going Sandy. We who live in this oven called the southwest aren't the crispest crackers but we get it done with help from our friends. Just don't listen to those guys north of the border. They are a crusty old bunch of cranks! I think that they are still mad over that Queen thing years ago.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

SJAaz said:


> Sandstorm said:
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## raventree78 (Apr 20, 2016)

I had a lot of issues with my "constrictor knots" slipping until I discovered I was tieing them wrong. Once I got my jig set up to give proper pre-stretch and tied the knot the right way I have not had any further issues. I use cotton twine to tie with BTW.


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## SLING-N-SHOT (Jun 5, 2018)

raventree78 said:


> I had a lot of issues with my "constrictor knots" slipping until I discovered I was tieing them wrong. Once I got my jig set up to give proper pre-stretch and tied the knot the right way I have not had any further issues. I use cotton twine to tie with BTW.


Robert, any particular YouTube channel or video help get this knot correct for you ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Darrell Allen


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> raventree78 said:
> 
> 
> > I had a lot of issues with my "constrictor knots" slipping until I discovered I was tieing them wrong. Once I got my jig set up to give proper pre-stretch and tied the knot the right way I have not had any further issues. I use cotton twine to tie with BTW.
> ...


Darrell, I found one that clicked for me and made it easy. I just have to find it! Will post when I do, but you may figure it out before then. I just sat with some string and a pen while watching TV. Tied a couple dozen times and then clean sailing from there. Quick, easy and never have any issues with slipping or any earlier band failure than anything else. Use SOFT butchers twine (get mine cheap from $1 store) and just snug it up pretty good. No need for white knuckles!


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

SLING-N-SHOT said:


> raventree78 said:
> 
> 
> > I had a lot of issues with my "constrictor knots" slipping until I discovered I was tieing them wrong. Once I got my jig set up to give proper pre-stretch and tied the knot the right way I have not had any further issues. I use cotton twine to tie with BTW.
> ...


Here it is. Just get your band set up in your jig and tie exactly as shown. Keep the knot close to the pouch and just before you fully tighten it, use your fingers to slide the knot right up to the pouch and keep it neat. If you look on the underside of the knot, there will be two loops of twine. You want to use your fingers to just get those closer together before cinching it up. Only takes a couple of seconds. Hope I'm describing it well enough. Just remember it doesn't have to be crazy tight. Firm handshake, not a knuckle crusher!


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

I had watched a few tutorials on the constrictor knot prior but the one stringslap shared I found to be the easiest to follow after I figured out that they needed to be slid around the pouch temporarily beforehand. That one I grabbed from ATO's YouTube channel. I tied mine on a sharpie marker first so it was large enough in diameter to be slid off and placed right around the pouch. 
In my case I certainly can't fault the knot. They're definitely tight and effective. After my band slipped I had to cut the knot off where it was still locked firmly in place on the rest of the latex. Looking back I can see fairly clearly that if my pre-stretch had been tighter the knot would have done really well. 
I agree with stringslap that before locking down, there is a spot in the rear of the knot where you'll want to be sure to dress the knot up a bit once it's on the band. The two rear parallel strands can become separated and the latex will bunch up a bit in that area when cinched down. Even though I'm using the amber belt and 1745 cuffs now, I'm still really glad I learned that knot. Probably the easiest method to use with stuff you have lying around the house. I'm actually going to give it another go in the future now that I have the issue I was facing ruled out and can see plenty of uses for it elsewhere too.


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## SJAaz (Apr 30, 2019)

Sandstorm said:


> I watched a few tutorials on them but the one stringslap shared I found to be the easiest to follow after I figured out that they needed to be slid around the pouch temporarily beforehand. I tied mine on a sharpie marker first so it was large enough in diameter to be slid off and placed right around the pouch.
> In my case I certainly couldn't fault the knot. They're definitely tight and effective. After my band slipped I had to cut the knot off where it was still locked firmly in place on the rest of the latex. Looking back I can see fairly clearly that if my pre-stretch had been tighter the knot would have continued to do an excellent job.
> I agree with stringslap that before locking down, there is a spot in the rear of the knot where you'll want to be sure to dress the knot up a bit once it's on the band as the two parallel strands can become separated and the latex will bunch up a bit in that area when cinched down. Even though I'm using the amber belt and 1745 cuffs now, I'm still really glad I learned that knot. Probably the easiest method to use with stuff you have lying around the house. I'm actually going to give it another go in the future now that I have the issue I was facing ruled out.


I used to tie a clove hitch until the forum guys browbeat me into learning the constrictor. I use a small pair of hemostats to reach under the X and grab the working end. Butcher twine and bees wax, never had a failure.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

SJAaz said:


> Sandstorm said:
> 
> 
> > I watched a few tutorials on them but the one stringslap shared I found to be the easiest to follow after I figured out that they needed to be slid around the pouch temporarily beforehand. I tied mine on a sharpie marker first so it was large enough in diameter to be slid off and placed right around the pouch.
> ...


Sometimes old school is good school lol. That knot is so much like the clove hitch too. Just that one extra pass over the standing end makes all the difference. There's a double constrictor too that I took a look at but it looks like it's too cumbersome and unnecessary for what we're doing.


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## Slingshot28 (Feb 15, 2021)

I like to use dental floss, constrictor knot then wrap around a few times and two overhand knots and done. hope this helps


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Slingshot28 said:


> I like to use dental floss, constrictor knot then wrap around a few times and two overhand knots and done. hope this helps


All tools for the 'ole mental toolbox. I was eyeing the dental floss last night but wondered if it'd cut the bands, so definitely good to know too.


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

Sandstorm said:


> I had watched a few tutorials on the constrictor knot prior but the one stringslap shared I found to be the easiest to follow after I figured out that they needed to be slid around the pouch temporarily beforehand. That one I grabbed from ATO's YouTube channel. I tied mine on a sharpie marker first so it was large enough in diameter to be slid off and placed right around the pouch.
> In my case I certainly can't fault the knot. They're definitely tight and effective. After my band slipped I had to cut the knot off where it was still locked firmly in place on the rest of the latex. Looking back I can see fairly clearly that if my pre-stretch had been tighter the knot would have done really well.
> I agree with stringslap that before locking down, there is a spot in the rear of the knot where you'll want to be sure to dress the knot up a bit once it's on the band. The two rear parallel strands can become separated and the latex will bunch up a bit in that area when cinched down. Even though I'm using the amber belt and 1745 cuffs now, I'm still really glad I learned that knot. Probably the easiest method to use with stuff you have lying around the house. I'm actually going to give it another go in the future now that I have the issue I was facing ruled out and can see plenty of uses for it elsewhere too.


No need to tie it first and then slip it over the pouch. Just clamp your bandset and tie like in the video.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Oh crap, you’re absolutely right lol. Thank you.


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