# Heavy Slingshot Idea (good Idea?)



## Dersu (Sep 25, 2012)

I have a flippinout axiom that I'm satisfied with for general shooting but I wanted something with a lot of power to play around with as well. Think of it as like shooting a magnum or desert eagle and a 9mm would be everyday shooting.

I'm thinking of getting a Joerg Sprave Milbro Howitzer frame, triple layer thera-band gold bands. They sell triple layer bands on ebay but I have never seen them anywhere else. So I don't even know if they're effective at all. I would shoot 9/16" ammo. 9/16" seems to be the largest readily available to purchase, otherwise I would go a bit higher than that. Does anyone see any problems with this setup if I'm just going for something to play around with once in a while? It would be like my magnum revolver while my axiom is my 9mm. Fun to shoot a couple of times but the axiom will still do all the serious business.


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## The Lard (Oct 15, 2011)

Only problem you'll have is that your accuracy will be nowhere near what it is with the Axiom ! .


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## phoghat (Jun 17, 2011)

The Lard said:


> Only problem you'll have is that your accuracy will be nowhere near what it is with the Axiom ! .


At least at first. I'm in Mexico where catapults reign, and power is anywhere up to and including "Magnum Velocities"
I've been watching Joerg for years and have started building some of his higher powered unuits.
At first, accuracy sucks., but like anything else, improves directly propiortional to practice.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Phoghat, I don't know how old you are, but if you continue in that heavy power vein you will have a short career in slingshooting. That amount of rubber will take a heavy toll on your joints and tendons. This goes for Joerg as well. Ask yourself: how many older fellas do you see using stuff like that? There is a good reason.


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

My 2 cents. Moorhammer. Low forks, great grip. You can put some power bands on these babies.


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## Dersu (Sep 25, 2012)

Moorhammer would be nice but price kills it for me. Guess I don't want to go all out extreme as possible. Just something with substantial power to play around with once in a while. Don't think I'll be using it regularly. Just to use a few times when I shoot a regular slingshot. Actually I would think using such a heavy slingshot occasionally would improve my targeting with a normal slingshot. A bit like resistance training.


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Why don't you just put heavier bands on the Axiom?? The frame will handle more bands than you could ever begin to pull. And like Dayhiker said....

Heavy does not equal better, faster, or more....


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

Speed = Power. Thorsten shoots at around 500 FPS, as far as I know. He uses light bands with full butterfly.

If you really want POWER, I suggest learning to shoot butterfly. You can check his youtube videos here.

I'm not saying butterfly is the only way to get power, but I'm providing a the view point that to get power, you don't need to be breaking your arms.


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## Dersu (Sep 25, 2012)

I like the axiom but the fork gap is too narrow for anything extreme. I've already got a few fork hits. I like it otherwise though. Aside from that I'd like one for regular shooting and one just to mess around with occasionally.


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

And yeah, I was also thinking that, and sorry for ninja'ing your post Nathan, but your axiom polymer is stronger than your wrists, and I'd be amazed if you could pull rubber hard enough to break it, they're pretty **** indestructable AFAIK.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Trigger thumb can be a real problem with very heavy power bands. I already know several that have had to have a operation for that problem. I think a better way to go for more power is butterfly style shooting. Here is a link where I discuss this issue a little. -- Tex


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

Dersu said:


> I like the axiom but the fork gap is too narrow for anything extreme. I've already got a few fork hits. I like it otherwise though. Aside from that I'd like one for regular shooting and one just to mess around with occasionally.


I'm all for collecting a thousand slingshots for a thousand purposes, but to be honest, the axiom forks are far from narrow, and if you're getting fork hits with the axiom, it's most likely your pouch release and is certainly something to do with your technique. Until you're hitting consistently, and at least, missing your forks consistently, I wouldn't worry about power, I'd be looking at lighter bands as it makes you feel like you're using an aiming hack!









But saying that, absolutely get more slingshots, and shoot them with glee!


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

I guess it's my 4 cents now. The Moorhammer great for butterfly also! I also own an Axiom and like it very much, the Moorhammer is not my go to SS, but man is it a blast to shoot.


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## Incomudro (Jan 12, 2012)

I see one potential problem, I wouldn't want to hit the hand that's holding the Slingshot!


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

I agree with Buns! Look at your release, as when any slingshot is shot OTT, fork gap is not a big factor.


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

If there's one thing I wish I never tried, it's doubles. They absolutely trashed the tendons in both hands shooting doubles in the beginning, and I'm not a weak handed guy. I've only recently healed up, and I am happily shooting and killing it with singles. I can't even imagine triples. Unless you're huge, you won't get the max power out of triples anyway.


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## The Lard (Oct 15, 2011)

If your getting fork hits on your Axiom then you need to address your grip/hold 1st . 
You won't want a fork hit from triple bands .


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

pop shot said:


> If there's one thing I wish I never tried, it's doubles. They absolutely trashed the tendons in both hands shooting doubles in the beginning, and I'm not a weak handed guy. I've only recently healed up, and I am happily shooting and killing it with singles. I can't even imagine triples. Unless you're huge, you won't get the max power out of triples anyway.


Me too -- except that my hands won't heal.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Like every one else said. If you haven't perfected or at least become proficient with singles , you'll never shoot triples. With sling shots its about accuracy.All the power in the world is useless if you can't hit the intended target.


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## Sneaksie (Aug 16, 2012)

I have a homemade hammerhead that I had banded with triple TB blue in butterfly length (29cm?), and they are PLENTY fast and powerful for me with 3/8 steel ammo or 1/2 marbles, and it is a breeze to draw. I don't know what the fps is, but I do know that it wrecked my crappy little catchbox.

That being said, I have never tried tb gold, only blue and black.

Having been involved in archery nearly all of my life, I am a proponent of really fast setups (as long as they can maintain stability), because it simplifies aiming for me (I shoot instinctive barebow). What I have learned, though, is that adding draw weight is not always the best way to gain speed, especially at the cost of accuracy or form. Rather, optimizing your ammo to your particular draw weight, draw length, technique, and purpose seems to gain the most benefit both in speed and in consistent accuracy. However, in archery, form is the most important factor that determines overall accuracy and performance. For example, if 2 different people- one with excellent form and one with poor form- shoot the same matched setup of bow and arrow, the one with good form will obviously be more consistently accurate, and 99.9% of the time would get more fps out of the same setup. I can't speak as to whether or not that is true of sling shooting or not, but I suspect the same could also apply.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

Sneaksie said:


> Rather, optimizing your ammo to your particular draw weight, draw length, technique, and purpose seems to gain the most benefit both in speed and in consistent accuracy.


.
thats what i try to do . and also getting to know different bands and tubes and what they do for me as a shooter . good stuff there .


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## Sneaksie (Aug 16, 2012)

Dersu said:


> Like every one else said. If you haven't perfected or at least become proficient with singles , you'll never shoot triples. With sling shots its about accuracy.All the power in the world is useless if you can't hit the intended target.


Was it Wyatt Earp that said "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything"?


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

You probably won't believe this, but less is more.


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## capnjoe (Jun 3, 2012)

"Was it Wyatt Earp that said "Fast is fine, but accuracy is everything"?" Whoever it was was a smart fella and probably deadly.

Triple Gold TB, huh? You must be a Sasquatch of a man!
My interpretation of Joerg's vids is that he just really enjoys shooting. He'll shoot anything! But I'd be willing to bet that he shoots better with a set of single bands.
If he were still around you could ask him personally. I'm curious to know! It seems he has impressed a great many with his mega powerful shooters, but I wonder how many of his fans are built like he is. That dude's a chunk o' musckle! I suspect a great many injuries have been, and will continue to be attributed to emulating his bravado. Just because he can do it, doesn't mean anyone can.
I'm not knocking him at all, I love his videos and so do my little boys.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

*David and Goliath . *
*The little single bands would likely put the ball through the eye and into the brain and down she goes.*


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

I never seen any videos of Joerg cutting cards, lighting matches at 75 ft. or shooting coins out of the air. Unless I missed them by chance.


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## capnjoe (Jun 3, 2012)

treefork said:


> I never seen any videos of Joerg cutting cards, lighting matches at 75 ft. or shooting coins out of the air. Unless I missed them by chance.


True dat, treefork. I never said he was a great shooter, just entertaining.
I've also never seen all his videos, but none that I saw attempted to qualify his accuracy.


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## mrpaint (May 16, 2012)

man after reading this thread I am happy that I haven't used anything more than TBG singles. I bet my tendons and joints are still in great shape. I might try doubles some day, but triples seems like overkill --- at least with TBG.


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

There are some great Moorhammer videos, distance, speed, butterfly. Like I said, it's not my go to SS but it's a kick to shoot. I have cut cards with my SPS and a Axiom, never tried with the Moorhammer but I have no doubt it could be done. Different animal, not for everyone, it fills a niche. Variety is the spice...


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## LittleBear (Mar 24, 2012)

9/16 steel is a bit small for triples, 19 to 23 mm (3/4"+) or equivalent weight in lead.

The Howitzer is nice but my vote is for a Bronze Moorhammer, have one on my Xmas list, probably wouldn't actually shoot it just prop it up on my desk and admire the sparkling glory.

Just my opinion but if you're not shooting it butterfly there's no point in going for the magnum shot, you wouldn't buy that Desert Eagle and load bullets with only half the gunpowder for it.

Would practice butterfly with 3/8" steel and theraband blue, to among other things find the right band length for you. As others have said for slingshots power is all about speed, and speed isn't about how hard a band set is to pull it's about how fast it retracts and accelerates the ammo. If you pull and hold you loose speed, if your bands are too long you loose speed, if your pouch and/or bands are too heavy you loose speed, etc. etc. etc. I do a lot of fiddling around with a Chrony measuring velocities with different bands, ammo, etc. and the one thing that's immediately obvious is that heavier bands don't automatically give you more power (faster speeds), with the right technique they will throw heavier ammo faster but too much band can actually throw lighter ammo slower wasting a lot of energy and yes doing your body possible damage for nothing. IMO experimenting and trying things out (safely) to find what works best for you is a must, sometimes I'll try something I see on the forum or YouTube and go yep that works for me but not always, at other times I try it and even though I trust the source and/or it's backed up by incontrovertible evidence for some reason whether temperature, material source, whatever it just doesn't work for me. I expected that for accuracy, but am continually surprised to find out how often it happens with the elusive power quest.

BTW your slingshot appears to have nice latex bands, I have and use/experiment with both TBG and .030" latex with average temperatures in the 60's on a chilly damp island in Puget Sound I seem to be getting a few FPS more with the .030" latex like Tex sells for $6 a sheet over TB Gold. The other minor problem I sometimes run into with TBG is ordering it off eBay you never really know how old it is and/or how it's been stored, old and or improperly stored = shorter life/tears easy with slightly slower speeds.

BTW your slingshot appears to have nice latex bands, I have and use/experiment with both TBG and .030" latex with average temperatures in the 60's on a chilly damp island in Puget Sound I seem to be getting a few FPS more with the .030" latex like Tex sells for $6 a sheet over TB Gold. The other minor problem with TBG for me at least is ordering it off eBay you never really know how old it is and/or how it's been stored, old and or improperly stored = shorter life/tears easy with slightly slower speeds.


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## Dersu (Sep 25, 2012)

I suppose I was getting a bit too caught up in a new hobby. I guess I'll just stick with the axiom for now. I took about 100 shots the other day and got about 4 fork hits on the left fork. For what reason I can't tell you. Remember I'm entirely new to shooting slingshots (think I might have owned a barnett or generic walmart slingshot when I was 12 but I was more into airguns back then). So I hadn't shot a slingshot in nearly 20 years. I was proud of my aiming though and thought I was progressing quickly which is why I wanted to have some monstrous freak slingshot to play around with a little. Joerg isn't my idol or anything but I have to admit his videos inspired me to pick up the hobby.


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## LittleBear (Mar 24, 2012)

Many possible causes the most common seems to be tilting the forks so that one band is stretched farther than the other when released.

Something that I've noticed, works for me can't say how it works for anyone else, shooting over-the-top (OTT) if the slingshot is pointing slightly away from me it seems like the ammo wants to naturally fly over the forks making it harder to hit one even if the bands are drawn unevenly, however if it's tilted back toward me the ammo seems to fly through the forks increasing the chances of a hit with a bad draw. Also tilting it away slightly seems to make it easier to see if the forks are centered (bands drawn evenly).


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## Rapier (May 28, 2011)

Double tbg tapered from about 18mm to 12mm shooting 13mm lead semi butterfly up to about 15meters will go straight through a rabbit like he wasn't even there. But even though it carries the mass its alot slower than say 15mm to 10mm single latex shooting 6mm bb's. kindda like the difference between a chunky diesel and a twin turboed 2litre. You can try triples, people have done it befor but I bet you end up with just the two befor long.


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## All Buns Glazing (Apr 22, 2012)

Respect, Dersu









I whole heartedly support your new obsession with slingshots, which never seems to go away for most, and I bet there's not a single soul on this forum who will chastise you for wanting to buy a slingshot to match every occasion, weather condition, shoe-lace colour and cardinal direction you're shooting in. I find my axiom is most accurate when shooting Sou-Sou West









For now, can I suggest a simple checklist to do when shooting, to avoid fork hits? This is just what I do, personally, and may or may not work, and some other people will certainly have a different checklist, or repudiate the effectiveness of having a checklist altogether, but here it is. This checklist assumes you're shooting horizontal/gangster/side shooting style.

Are my forks canted or straight up and down?
Stand next to a mirror, so when you draw your slingshot out, you can see your forks like you would if you were standing next to yourself. (You can pretend you're having an out of body experience, induced by the pure awesomeness of slingshot shooting, shocking your soul out of your body for a breather). Are the forks straight up and down? If not, adjust and put all your awareness into your slingshot holding hand - memorise how that feels - get frigging zen on it's ass.

Hold the ammo, not the pouch.
I mean by this, and it's really helped me in my pursuit of awesome, that when you're holding the pouch when you draw, that you're gripping the ammo, and not gripping the pouch too far forward so the ammo is deep in your grip. Why? It facilitates a smooth release and reduces the chances of it getting caught up in your fingers and wholloping you, or the forks.

Try to keep your 2nd, 3rd and 4th fingers free.
Not possible if you're using monster strong bands, but grip the ammo in your thumb and forefinger, and keep your other fingers clear. The theory behind this is, it makes you look pretty, and the other fingers don't hinder the simultaneous release of the ammo due to the three fingers preventing the even release of thumb and forefinger.

Keep your pouch gripping thumb, straight
Nathan, who made your Axiom, once said this in a video and it revolutionized my ammo grip. - Do it!

Smooooooooth release
In my experience (which is as vast as an ocean, spreading over at least ... a few months







), almost all fudge ups happen when you release the pouch. If you bodge the release, it can roll the ammo before it flies, which stretches one band more than the other, and your forks, fingers, hands and neighbour's fence will hate you for it. Make it a smooth, non explosive release, and ..... PHRASSSING!... make it a smooth release... there's no way to say this without it sounding suss, so might as well commit.... make it a smooth, and non explosive release and your balls won't make a mess of your hands.

Band Ties
Make sure your bands are tied to the forks evenly, for the same reason you don't want to roll the ammo in the pouch on release.

Keep the action the same
As Bill Hays says in one of his videos, "I won't bore you with the same shot over and over again, bore yourself with the same shot over and over again" (paraphrased!). To standardize your shot and keep the ammo in your catchbox, and not in your forks/hands, use the same anchor point and same release motion each time. Your muscle memory will take over and you'll be safe.

Well, that's about all I've got for now - I reckon it's really important to get past the forkhit stage as it's irritating if you don't have an indestructable slingshot, scary, potentially extremely painful and dangerous.

That said though, I once hit my hand with a 9.5mm steel ball, and still hit the can. I was like "OUCCCHHHH.... Wait, .... really?".

Good luck, and I hope that's not TLDR.


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## DracoUltima (Jun 14, 2011)

After experimenting with bands for a while, it's all about efficiency. Bandsets are most efficient with the right ammo weight/size. A 9.5 mm steel ball can easily be handled by single bands. Using double bands would not be as beneficial because you're doubling the draw weight, for such a marginally small increase in speed. And as for triple layered bandsets, don't bother.
BUT, that does not mean that a triple layered bandset is bad for everything, a heavier draw weight is more suited to handling heavy ammo. For example, when firing 20 mm steel balls with a single layered bandset, it would be terribly slow. Firing with a double layered bandset with the same 20 mm ball might a a little faster. And firing with a triple layered bandset would be quite fast. Heavy draw weight = heavy ammo. Light draw weight = light ammo. Medium draw weight = medium ammo.
Of course, I don't have the exact numbers for these conclusions but they are posted all over the forum and Youtube.

Oh, and one little side note. Using a slingshot with an unnecessarily heavy draw will seriously mess up your tendons and joints later in life. Be careful, when you decide to use heavy bands as your primary bandset. They're fun to use, but when will you need to fire ginormous steel balls anyway?


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## Rapier (May 28, 2011)

Ha ha I really liked your post there abg. A lot of fun to read and very informative. Will take on that list myself I recon. I used a phone camera to video myself side on whilst shooting a few and besides the fact the fellow in the vid was incredibly good looking, his technique was rubbish and a few errors where blatantly obvious once reviewed.


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## capnjoe (Jun 3, 2012)

You so durty, Buns!

Dersu, just keep shooting. That little blue fish was right.


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## Berkshire bred (Mar 4, 2012)

like as already been said power is not everything nut accuracy really is, but at the same time i know where your coming from power is great fun i have a barnett pro diablo with 3 bands per side of TBG 25mm at the fork 20mm at the pouch 23cm long it is not accurate but with 12mm steel by god it is fun.


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