# Exotic wood laminate, New palmswelled design by Slingshots Canada



## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

This is our first double palmswell frame on a new design. This new design is a finger brace shooter and has been made to be very pocketable, comfortable, sleek and functional. The tight center of handle allows the middle finger and ring finger to wrap around for a firm grip, The pinkie wraps around the bulbous end, In combination the grip makes the shooter feel as if it has become one with your arm. Feast your eyes:


































The core is Pao Amarello, Spacers sandwiching the core is Anigre, The outer wood is Wenge. The palmswell is Padauk with a Teak spacer.

This frame is "Medium" size and demensions are as follows:

*Length from top to bottom = 5 inches

Outer width of forks = 3.5 Inches

Inner width of forks = 1.6 inches*

This frame is being offered for sale to the first PM, You can find all the details about it on the Personal For Sale sections or just click THIS LINK


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## Xidoo (Aug 14, 2010)

Gib,
This is such a beautiful slingshot. Nice combination of colors and shape. Those curves to the sides makes it look very sexy and hot. If I had one, I would be confused to shoot with it or look a it, since I could not be wrong at either choice. Saludos.


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## Ultraman (May 20, 2011)

Xidoo said:


> Gib,
> This is such a beautiful slingshot. Nice combination of colors and shape. Those curve to the sides makes it look very sexy and hot. If I had one, I would be confuse to shoot with it or look a it, since I could not be wrong at either choice. Saludos.


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

Hey Gib , you rocked out on that one Bud! Excellent looking frame and you know with that thin waist it will be a confortable shooter. Yeah Buddy!!!!!! Flatband


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

Very nicely done!


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## e~shot (Jun 3, 2010)

Very nicely done GiB


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Gib, I love it! You're reaching the stratosphere now.


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Wow. I think I am the president of the Gib fanclub.


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## NoSugarRob (Jun 3, 2010)

very nice work.


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Something seems very familiar about that handle....... Where have i seen that before??

Great looking shooter too!


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## shawnr5 (Feb 16, 2011)

Gib's swell looks more like a mandolin than a teardrop. Since most handles are round at the end and narrow at the throat, any palm swell will likely be somewhat similar in shape.


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

Thanks Shawn, Nathan simply does not understand this.

Nathan has chosen to get very angry over this and believes that a palmswell can be copyrighted, Anyone who has eyes can clearly see this palmswell is not a copy of his. I have tried to be a gentlemen in every aspect but unfortantely it seems Nathan has chosen to drop our friendship over this and has accused me of many things that simply are untrue.

It is a shame, But this will not stop my ever increasing skills.

Thanks for the comments guys!


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

very nice slingshots, love them, jeff


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Gib said:


> Thanks Shawn, Nathan simply does not understand this.
> 
> Nathan has chosen to get very angry over this and believes that a palmswell can be copyrighted, Anyone who has eyes can clearly see this palmswell is not a copy of his. I have tried to be a gentlemen in every aspect but unfortantely it seems Nathan has chosen to drop our friendship over this and has accused me of many things that simply are untrue.
> 
> ...


Wow!! Dramatic!!

according to www.copyright.gov

Works of Artistic Craftsmanship and Designs: "Works of artistic craftsmanship" are registrable on Form VA, but the statute makes clear that protection 
extends to "their form" and not to "their mechanical or utilitarian aspects." The 
"design of a useful article" is considered copyrightable "only if, and only to the 
extent that, such design incorporates pictorial, graphic, or sculptural features 
that can be identified separately from, and are capable of existing independently 
of, the utilitarian aspects of the article.

Yes, my "teardrop" palmswell is in the process of being registered under the above criteria in the USA. ITis a 6-10 month wait, but until it is either declined or accepted, it is on file and the copyright emblem I have placed on all my frames is reference to that. It is not the physical palm swell but the sculptural element within the palm swell that is copyrighted.

I am not angry, I am disappointed!! What's more, my friendship is no more or less than it has been previous. No need to make mountains out of mole hills. As long as our sport is growing I am happy- though I would prefer innovation over mimicry.


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## Mattes (Jul 17, 2011)

Just one word.... AWESOME!!!


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Please keep it all to pm,s, and for what it worth i dont think a double palm swell is copy rights, i made one last year, and i have bought one from china off ebay a couple of year ago, thankyou jeff


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

Nathan,

Nothing dramatic at all about you completely loosing your top over a design that is not in the bit close to yours, Although you are not expressing it to the public your PM was pretty clear to me.

The only feature you are "disappointed" about is a double palmswell which has been around for YEARS before you offered shooters, My shooter is not shaped like yours, Does not even come close to the "sculptural features" that your slingshot incorperates. If members seen the PM you sent me I think you would be bombarded with people who think you have taken this way too far, I am better than that and dont need to make you look bad.

Unfortantely for your copyright to be accepted you will need to prove to them that you indeed where the first one to offer a double palmswell on a frame, Which wont happen.

You have members here saying it doesnt even look like your shooter and I have moderators and members PMing me telling me that my shooter is clearly not a rip off of yours, I feel EXTREMELY bad that you think I am trying to feed off your success but it simply is not the case, I know you will never see my side of things and that you will never want to talk with me again but if you think I wont let people know how you have decided to deal with something that is so silly you are wrong.

Cheers


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Just to be clear- I am not at all concerned about a double palm swell. I lay no claim to a double palm swell. I am referencing the unique shape of the palm swell as a sculptural design element that is uniquely Flippinout Slingshot. Of all the design elements of my slingshots, it is the "tear drop" shape that identifies my work and it is the "tear drop" shape that is protected under copyright.

As I have continually said, if my work inspires others to shoot, then we all win. I have no desire or intent to be divisive and am quite finished with this mess.

You guys have fun with this, I have slingshots to make!


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

Palmswell looks nothing like yours, Sorry.


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## Ultraman (May 20, 2011)

Gib said:


> I showed the design to Nathan, I did not mean it to look so similar to Nathans teardrop palmswell, It was suposed to be much wider at the top but after rounding it most of it was removed. I have a couple made up this way but I will be refining the palmswell so that it does not look "teardrop" I will likely extend it up the frame and blend it into the forks a bit. I do not want to offend Nathan in anyway and I know the teardrop is his thing.
> 
> - Also this is a new design, It is not a Prowler. The Prowlers have a different palmswell on them. I have a few made up that you will be seeing soon!
> 
> Cheers


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## NoSugarRob (Jun 3, 2010)

just because this forum is the first place you ever saw a palm swell doesn't mean its owned by the first person you saw making them ?


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## shawnr5 (Feb 16, 2011)

Nathan's post sounded a little sarcastic, not completely incendiary. This discussion should have been friendly and amicable. Both makers are producing beautiful slingshots that are, by the nature of the beast, somewhat similar. For that matter, my slingshots are also similar. I think that we should all take a few steps back and calm down or else close this thread.


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Right there has been no clones here, i want this to stop or i will clean this topic right up, please keep it all to pm,s, both flippinout and gib make cracking slingshots, just carry on with what you both do best, making slingshots, thankyou jeff


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

And we have both agreed to do that, If this thread seems that we are spatting at each other this is not the case, We had A discussion that needed to take place, There is some misunderstandings and differences on opinions on the palmswell stance and we have decided to agree to disagree and let it die.

We have peacefully ended this and I hope everyone enjoys what both Me and Nathan will be putting out in the future.

Cheers


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

edited by Rayshot


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## BCLuxor (Aug 24, 2010)

OMG this **** again... I swear anything for sale or to be brought should be banished now... Is this an enthusiast forum or a bloody market place...I swear now that nobody contributes anything worth while anymore where are the inovations and "new" ideas not this constant sell sell sell ...even posts with the intention to inform normally go down the route of "ill sell this or buy that"... If it wernt for the fact I like the layout here I think I would have jumped ship along time ago. (fades into the background , signs out views boards as guest)


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Well im off to bed and am closing this topic, everything has been said that needs to be said, i dont fancy having to come on in the morning and having to clean it all up,
if anyone thinks ive done the wrong thing by locking it, pm aaron and ask it to be put back on, cheers jeff


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Its back open keep it nice, good night


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

I asked to have this opened so that I could show a side by side comparison of My shooter and Nathans design. Hopefully with these side by sides and direct explination you will see this is ridiculous.

This first picture shows my medium frame beside his frame, You can clearly see the overall shape is NOT the same, Infact I will give you a complete list on how my frame differs from Nathans design.









Forks - Not even close to the same, Completely different attachment method, Completely different size.
---Not even similar in overall shape, Mine is completely rounded his is not.
--- My "signature" band attachment method if you will allows you to secure bands in a rock solid manner with added protection of the rubber band wrapping slightly pretruding on the sides.

Handle - Its completely different. His handle is center and straight with his design, Mine is slightly ofset from center due to the way you are meant to hold the frame, Your fingers wrap around the right side (Right side shown in this pic) of my frame when fingerbraced and because of the design the slight off set handle is needed to make the hold center.

Palmswell - I dont know how anyone can say this is similar to his. Mine is rounded completely, His has a sharp center angle. The only reason my palmswell looks even slightly like his is because of the thin waist, But because he has made a thin waist and double palmswell no one else can?


















I will admit the side profile looks close, However my shooters are thicker, Any double palmswell with thin waist will have this profile. If we went on side profile alone no one would ever be coming out with anything new.










Here is Nathans shooter beside my smallest version of my new design, It still does not even look close IMO. Completely different profile, Off set handle ect.

I built my frame around the feel in the hand which is why the handle is off set, This design shoots different then Nathans and feels different in all aspects, To call this a rip off I just dont understand and I guess I never will.

On top of all this Nathan got to see the design before I put it into production, He told me that it was a great design and commended me on it.

My first palmswell design he did not like and I made the mistake of not checking with him on the second one as I never meant to or ever mean to offend anyone.

Cheers


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

The frame was built for ultimate ergo finger brace hold, Now that I have explained the engineering that went behind this frame maybe those who think I copied can understand that there was MUCH thought behind this frame. Me and Nathan started a trade about 2 months ago when he was releasing this frame design, We were to work in collaboration to make laminated slingshots that were strong, Gorgeous and very funtional. Life happens, Unfortuantly I was unable to obtain exotics for a month after I received Nathans shooter, Once I obtained the wood I was then faced with an eviction from the city as my landlord was renting us an apartment that was not zoned for multiple people, I had to pack up and move during that month.

I finally made Nathans shooter and sent it out to him last week (With some extras to show how sorry I was for taking so long) I presume he hasnt received it yet. I just wished I never would have shown these shooters until I clarified everything.


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## CHANEKE_JOSH (Feb 10, 2010)

COME ON!!! NOT ANOTHER COPIRIGHT BULL-PUPU AGAIN!!!

this is really... SAD! ... no, not sad, its more than that, its like ... i dont know... but its too tired to read... see ya!


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## radray (Apr 30, 2011)

It's a disagreement folks. No need to egg either one on. We all disagree at times. Let's leave it up to the parties involved to settle things as mature adults. They are both talented craftsmen and I am a fan of both and will not get involved in their disagreement. Disagreements are not always bad and we can always learn something from them. Let's all take a deep breath and CHILL. Make love and slingshots not WAR.


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## Bob Fionda (Apr 6, 2011)

I think that if GIP has got inspiration about the palm-swell from Nathan it may mean that palm-sweel is a good choice to grip that catapult, it also means that Nathan was the first to find it out and he can be considered an innovator. It's also a privilege to be imitated. Then slingshots are altogheter different in shape. I don't think is worth making war for a little matter like that, you both are two great sling-makers and please go on to make slingshots. I see for example that Jeorg Sprave, Bill Hayes, John Webb and many others on this Forum show their own beautiful and innovative slingshots with no expectations and knowing that anyone could copy them, but I think they're honoured to share with all of us and we can take ideas to improve ourselves.
Cheer, Bob


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## Xidoo (Aug 14, 2010)

Gib, 
A slighshot fork is something very basic, there is little room to improve or bring something new to it. I have noticed that some members of this forum have claimed to be the first ones to make or do something with slingshots, but this sport, tradition or hunting tool has been around for more than one hundred years in most parts of the world. I am sure that most materials, shapes and ergonomics have been used already to make them. I must state that I noticed some similarities between Nathan's slingshots and slingshots A shape, and there has been a claim there too, just put them side to side to compare. Again, a slingshot fork is very basic and very limited at this point to bring something totally new to it.
Any tool, artifact, toy, etc that have been made to be hold by your hand could give you an idea of a grip, but this grip is not 100% coming out your mind, since it is based on something already made. Nice work Gib, I hope to see you improve more on your designs, I really love them. 
Even naturals could be inspired on somebody's style or you end up making one very alike to somebody else with no intension, I have done it. I make naturals and like to shape them as I feel they would be confortable and not to make them look like somebody else. As I make them I feel them in my hand and if my holding hand likes them I leave them like that. One of the reasons I do not make groves on my slingshots is the intentions to avoid to make them to look like somebody's style, I use a general look like poles to avoid this. I have been told that I am still using rubber bands to tide the bands to the fork, but this is traditional here, where I live and have done this since my childhood. Funtionality and confort for me is more important than appearence. Saludos.


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Since this seems to remain contentious, I would just like to reiterate my stance.

I have copyrighted the "tear drop" shape as a defining feature of Flippinout Slingshots. This "tear drop" shape and its copyright protection can and do exist outside of the palm swell. The "tear drop" can be used as an image, a sculptural element, or logo by which to define and represent Flippinout Slingshots. It just so happens that this defining artistic/visual feature exists most strongly on the palm swell of my design. Regardless, the "tear drop" shape is the ONLY copyright protected element of my slingshots- I have made no claim on the simple 'Y' design and would not attempt to do so- as has been assumed.

Just to be clear! and this is the last thing I have to say about this whole, overblown mess.

Would someone please buy Gib's slingshots so that we can all rest!!


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

Was one of my comments removed from this thread? If so I would like to be contacted by the moderator who removed it immediately. Please and thank you.


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## atom (Jun 24, 2011)

NaturalFork said:


> Was one of my comments removed from this thread? If so I would like to be contacted by the moderator who removed it immediately. Please and thank you.


my comments have also been removed







????


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## Gib (Sep 21, 2010)

flippinout said:


> Since this seems to remain contentious, I would just like to reiterate my stance.
> 
> I have copyrighted the "tear drop" shape as a defining feature of Flippinout Slingshots. This "tear drop" shape and its copyright protection can and do exist outside of the palm swell. The "tear drop" can be used as an image, a sculptural element, or logo by which to define and represent Flippinout Slingshots. It just so happens that this defining artistic/visual feature exists most strongly on the palm swell of my design. Regardless, the "tear drop" shape is the ONLY copyright protected element of my slingshots- I have made no claim on the simple 'Y' design and would not attempt to do so- as has been assumed.
> 
> ...


I do understand this, But I still do not think my palmswell looks like a teardrop, As I have said before, If my palmswell is a teardrop please tell me what human produces a teardrop that looks like my palmswell, You can see yours are perfectly tear shaped and mine is not.

As stated I wont be throwing these 2 shooters away because of this, someone will still get to enjoy them but I will change the overall look of the palmswell in the future to appease you (And anyone else who believes it looks similar) I never meant to offend you I am deeply sorry.

Cheers


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Apology accepted. Now let's both get back to doing what we do best- making and shooting slingshots!!


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

NaturalFork and Atom. I believe that I deleted your comments, and all the other ones, from the thread in the Vendor forum. It looks similar to this thread, but is not the same. I cleaned that one up because it was a selling post, not a debate thread. If people have things to say, this is the thread to say it in...not the post he is trying to sell it in.


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## mckee (Oct 28, 2010)

brilliant work gibb!


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