# A case for Lead ball ammo



## philly

There is no doubt that lead has an advantage over steel and effectively kills small game when placed properly, it's only disadvantage seems to be availibility and or price. But, looking at it from a gun hunters perspective, which I am also, it is cheap by comparison. Shot shells cost anywhere from $.20 each for cheap field loads to well over $1.00 each for some of the exotic metal waterfowl loads. Even the very popular .22 Long Rifle which most people think nothing of going through a box of 50 rounds costs around $8.00. Swaged lead balls, made for Muzzle loaders sell for around $14.00 a hundred or $.14 each, so still in the same range as gun fodder. I find that a box of 100 lead balls lasts me a long time, I try to get out once or twice a week to hunt squirrels and if I am lucky, I may get 5 or six shots so, the ammo lasts quite a while. You can still practice with it using a soft catch box so no loss there and at 10 to 15 yards, 375 lead shoots to pretty much the same point of aim as 3/8" steel so it can be intermixed for practice.

I know some just prefer to go natural with stones, we all know how effective and cheap they are, just look at some of Nico's posts and others, and you can see the devestating effects of a well placed shot. I believe in this case, it is more a matter of staying old school and using traditional forks and ammo that is the driver, not the price of the ammo. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them, they are not caught up in ballistics or theory, they walk the walk with years of experience and there results are well documented on this forum.

Steel shot has killed many small game annimals and birds I am sure , but I believe it wounds more than it kills. There are those who use heavy steel with very heavy tubes and do effectively and humanely kill game but I believe that to be the exception. I however am not in that elite catagory yet and feel I owe it to the game to use the best ammo available to me that I can afford. I guess it comes down to how much respect do we have for the game we hunt.

For the price of a 12 pack of beer or two packs of smokes you can have a seasons worth of good quality hunting ammo.

IMHO
Philly


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## Henry the Hermit

philly said:


> There is no doubt that lead has an advantage over steel and effectively kills small game when placed properly, it's only disadvantage seems to be availibility and or price. But, looking at it from a gun hunters perspective, which I am also, it is cheap by comparison. Shot shells cost anywhere from $.20 each for cheap field loads to well over $1.00 each for some of the exotic metal waterfowl loads. Even the very popular .22 Long Rifle which most people think nothing of going through a box of 50 rounds costs around $8.00. Swaged lead balls, made for Muzzle loaders sell for around $14.00 a hundred or $.14 each, so still in the same range as gun fodder. I find that a box of 100 lead balls lasts me a long time, I try to get out once or twice a week to hunt squirrels and if I am lucky, I may get 5 or six shots so, the ammo lasts quite a while. You can still practice with it using a soft catch box so no loss there and at 10 to 15 yards, 375 lead shoots to pretty much the same point of aim as 3/8" steel so it can be intermixed for practice.
> 
> I know some just prefer to go natural with stones, we all know how effective and cheap they are, just look at some of Nico's posts and others, and you can see the devestating effects of a well placed shot. I believe in this case, it is more a matter of staying old school and using traditional forks and ammo that is the driver, not the price of the ammo. I have a great deal of respect and admiration for them, they are not caught up in ballistics or theory, they walk the walk with years of experience and there results are well documented on this forum.
> 
> Steel shot has killed many small game annimals and birds I am sure , but I believe it wounds more than it kills. There are those who use heavy steel with very heavy tubes and do effectively and humanely kill game but I believe that to be the exception. I however am not in that elite catagory yet and feel I owe it to the game to use the best ammo available to me that I can afford. I guess it comes down to how much respect do we have for the game we hunt.
> 
> For the price of a 12 pack of beer or two packs of smokes you can have a seasons worth of good quality hunting ammo.
> 
> IMHO
> Philly


Or for a bit more, you can buy a Lee bullet mold and have a nearly free supply of lead ammo for life.


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## jmplsnt

I have shot lead for years and besides the ability to make identical ammunition for me it's being able to melt and shape lead. You can't do that with stainless steel in a home workshop. I am picking up and shooting stones also, though not in a hunting situation yet.


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## Tex-Shooter

I still like cut off pieces of lead wheel weights also. Not as good as lead balls, but a lot cheaper and easier to come by. A few busy corner curbs in town, pair of side cutters and you got enough to go hunting with a couple of times. -- Tex-Shooter


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## Nico

Philly is correct:

For the price of a carton of smokes of a six pack of beer or in my case being an avid coffee drinker a few trips to the local coffee house, you'd have afforded a good supply of lead ball ammo for your slingshot.

I no longer smoke nor do I drink alcohol anymore, I quit smoking 8 years back and have 3 years without Ale or Tequila but I remember the expense of either habit and it was costly more than a 100 pack of .457 lead ball ammo or .375 that can last you a good hunting season.

I use stones because it is old school, works very well and I feel closer to the natural world when I take a wild creature with something I acquired from the wilderness itself. I feel that nature equiped its predators with fangs and claws, venom etc. Man although also a predator was not born with fang and claw yet made weapons from their natural world. In line with that I feel that using something _natural like_ _a stone_ to take my prey brings me close to the center of creation and how it does make the game taste great!

Nico


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## Dayhiker

I have a 45 caliber mold and a bunch of scrap lead flashing.


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## jmplsnt

This may be a little off-the-wall but I wish I could get over to southeast Missouri where galena is very common. My thoughts run to 1/2" galena crystals, which are cubes and would be great natural lead ammo that I am certain have been used back in the day. Sort of like a natural stone picked off the ground that happens to be made of lead.

While I'm at this, I want to say that I was given stones by both Nico (his from California) and Bane of Small Game (New York) and interestingly enough both piles are exactly that same igneous rock despite coming from opposite sides of the continent. I will look this stone type up in my Audobon Guide sometime in the last few days. I used to see it a lot up in Alaska as well and I cringe when I think of all the time I wasted by not shooting slingshots when I was up there basically surrounded by billions of these perfect pebbles. Thanks Nick and John for your generousity and know they'll be put to good use some day.


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## Bill Hays

I have used a lot of 3/8" steel through my Lil' Ranger here lately for shooting birds and such... but that's all going to end because on Friday I got in my 0000 (.38 cal) Buckshot pellets...
With my setup I can shoot a 3/8" steel ball through a sheet of 1/4" birch plywood. When I stack two with an air space between it will penetrate the first sheet and put a little dent in the second.... When shooting the lead in the same size and with the same setup, it puts a nice clean hole through both sheets. There really is no comparison between the two when it comes to penetration!


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## philly

Hey Bill, which bands are you using with the .375 lead? Same as the ones on my Valliant?
Philly


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## Bill Hays

1" straight cut X 10.5" gold theraband.


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## flippinout

Bill Hays said:


> I have used a lot of 3/8" steel through my Lil' Ranger here lately for shooting birds and such... but that's all going to end because on Friday I got in my 0000 (.38 cal) Buckshot pellets...
> With my setup I can shoot a 3/8" steel ball through a sheet of 1/4" birch plywood. When I stack two with an air space between it will penetrate the first sheet and put a little dent in the second.... When shooting the lead in the same size and with the same setup, it puts a nice clean hole through both sheets. There really is no comparison between the two when it comes to penetration!


I have been searching all over for 0000 buckshot in bulk. Where did you find it? How much did you have to purchase and cost, if you don't mind sharing?


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## philly

Bill Hays said:


> 1" straight cut X 10.5" gold theraband.


Thanks Bll, mine are 1" straight and 8 1/2 to the forks
Philly


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## Bill Hays

Nathan, I got it from ballistic products: http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Super-Buck-Lead-Buckshot-0000-8lb-380/productinfo/SBK40/

8 pounds comes to about 670 balls... and it cost about $45 with shipping


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## Tex-Shooter

You can also get 000 buck at Cabelas! - Tex-shooter
http://www.cabelas.com/product/Hornady-Lead-Buck-Shot/740959.uts?Ntk=AllProducts&searchPath=%2Fcatalog%2Fsearch.cmd%3Fform_state%3DsearchForm%26N%3D0%26fsch%3Dtrue%26Ntk%3DAllProducts%26Ntt%3Dbuck%2Bshot%26WTz_l%3DHeader%253BSearch-All%2BProducts%26x%3D21%26y%3D10&Ntt=buck+shot&WTz_l=Header;Search-All Products


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## philly

Update on .36 Cal lead:

After a number of body hits on Squirells with .36 Cal lead, I have decided it just doesn't have the punch required. I am back to .44 cal lead as the smallest diameter to use for hunting. I have killed a few with head shots at close range with the .36 cal but unlike the .44 cal it just does not knock them down if hit a little back. I am going to try .45 cal hardball slugs next. I am sure that .36 will work well for rabbits and birds and I know that Tom BB swears by it for them. Those little gray ghosts are really tough little critters we owe it to them to use the best ammo we can to insure clean kills. Wish I had a couple of Frogmans Pit bulls to finish off the runners. I may have to try his tube set up when going to the .45 cal slugs.

Philly


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## Nest Buster

I will shoot any thing! Rocks, acorns dig up lead from shooting range. I have friends at fire stone and local car dealer ship that save me tire weights ect. Yes I have a problem. Even though i buy steel online every year. I just like to shot things. I have found that 5/8 steel and heavy 45 cal works great for me with one of mr. Parkers set ups. I have been shooting one of his rigs for the past ten plus years with countless kills. I have recently started shooting his double bander. Thuded a tree rat with it sunday about 18yrds out 15 feet up dead on contact easy day.


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## philly

Nest Buster said:


> I will shoot any thing! Rocks, acorns dig up lead from shooting range. I have friends at fire stone and local car dealer ship that save me tire weights ect. Yes I have a problem. Even though i buy steel online every year. I just like to shot things. I have found that 5/8 steel and heavy 45 cal works great for me with one of mr. Parkers set ups. I have been shooting one of his rigs for the past ten plus years with countless kills. I have recently started shooting his double bander. Thuded a tree rat with it sunday about 18yrds out 15 feet up dead on contact easy day.


Guess I am going to have to order a set of bands from Frogman. How does the double band set up handle .44 and .45 lead? I just ordered a .45 cal mold today from Lee, I use to cast my own pistol bullets years ago so have the pot and around 30 Lbs lead laying around. Good shooting on the squizzers Nest Buster, keep them pictures coming.
Philly


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## Nest Buster

philly said:


> I will shoot any thing! Rocks, acorns dig up lead from shooting range. I have friends at fire stone and local car dealer ship that save me tire weights ect. Yes I have a problem. Even though i buy steel online every year. I just like to shot things. I have found that 5/8 steel and heavy 45 cal works great for me with one of mr. Parkers set ups. I have been shooting one of his rigs for the past ten plus years with countless kills. I have recently started shooting his double bander. Thuded a tree rat with it sunday about 18yrds out 15 feet up dead on contact easy day.


Guess I am going to have to order a set of bands from Frogman. How does the double band set up handle .44 and .45 lead? I just ordered a .45 cal mold today from Lee, I use to cast my own pistol bullets years ago so have the pot and around 30 Lbs lead laying around. Good shooting on the squizzers Nest Buster, keep them pictures coming.
Philly
[/quote]
Thanks Philly. I like to pour my 45s a little light or 3/4 full for the dubble banders. I am shooting 180ish fps with a deep draw. They are versital medium weight smooth pull bands. I really like his single tubes for heavy 45s and up. They have a little break in period for the first 100 or so shots will feel heavy and tite, but after that they feel great fast an accurate can easly get 1000 plus shots. After they start to get tired no problem just pull the rubber through push the plug in about an inch cut off the excess and keep on keeping on! I have shot one set of bands for two years doing this. Jerett


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## philly

Nest Buster said:


> I will shoot any thing! Rocks, acorns dig up lead from shooting range. I have friends at fire stone and local car dealer ship that save me tire weights ect. Yes I have a problem. Even though i buy steel online every year. I just like to shot things. I have found that 5/8 steel and heavy 45 cal works great for me with one of mr. Parkers set ups. I have been shooting one of his rigs for the past ten plus years with countless kills. I have recently started shooting his double bander. Thuded a tree rat with it sunday about 18yrds out 15 feet up dead on contact easy day.


Guess I am going to have to order a set of bands from Frogman. How does the double band set up handle .44 and .45 lead? I just ordered a .45 cal mold today from Lee, I use to cast my own pistol bullets years ago so have the pot and around 30 Lbs lead laying around. Good shooting on the squizzers Nest Buster, keep them pictures coming.
Philly
[/quote]
Thanks Philly. I like to pour my 45s a little light or 3/4 full for the dubble banders. I am shooting 180ish fps with a deep draw. They are versital medium weight smooth pull bands. I really like his single tubes for heavy 45s and up. They have a little break in period for the first 100 or so shots will feel heavy and tite, but after that they feel great fast an accurate can easly get 1000 plus shots. After they start to get tired no problem just pull the rubber through push the plug in about an inch cut off the excess and keep on keeping on! I have shot one set of bands for two years doing this. Jerett
[/quote]

Jarret, thanks for getting back on the bands, my draw is only 29 inches to the cheek bone, I know Frogman says he gets 24 lbs draw at 44 inches with the doubles. I guess I am just going to have to try them out. I currently use Tex Shooters excellent Express bands, they are around 16 pounds pull and handle .44 lead and 1/2" steel well out to 20 yards. The .44 cal really breaks bone within that range on the squirells. I gave up on the .36 cal, just not enough punch, maybe with the tubes they will perform better.
Philly


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## Nest Buster

philly said:


> I will shoot any thing! Rocks, acorns dig up lead from shooting range. I have friends at fire stone and local car dealer ship that save me tire weights ect. Yes I have a problem. Even though i buy steel online every year. I just like to shot things. I have found that 5/8 steel and heavy 45 cal works great for me with one of mr. Parkers set ups. I have been shooting one of his rigs for the past ten plus years with countless kills. I have recently started shooting his double bander. Thuded a tree rat with it sunday about 18yrds out 15 feet up dead on contact easy day.


Guess I am going to have to order a set of bands from Frogman. How does the double band set up handle .44 and .45 lead? I just ordered a .45 cal mold today from Lee, I use to cast my own pistol bullets years ago so have the pot and around 30 Lbs lead laying around. Good shooting on the squizzers Nest Buster, keep them pictures coming.
Philly
[/quote]
Thanks Philly. I like to pour my 45s a little light or 3/4 full for the dubble banders. I am shooting 180ish fps with a deep draw. They are versital medium weight smooth pull bands. I really like his single tubes for heavy 45s and up. They have a little break in period for the first 100 or so shots will feel heavy and tite, but after that they feel great fast an accurate can easly get 1000 plus shots. After they start to get tired no problem just pull the rubber through push the plug in about an inch cut off the excess and keep on keeping on! I have shot one set of bands for two years doing this. Jerett
[/quote]

Jarret, thanks for getting back on the bands, my draw is only 29 inches to the cheek bone, I know Frogman says he gets 24 lbs draw at 44 inches with the doubles. I guess I am just going to have to try them out. I currently use Tex Shooters excellent Express bands, they are around 16 pounds pull and handle .44 lead and 1/2" steel well out to 20 yards. The .44 cal really breaks bone within that range on the squirells. I gave up on the .36 cal, just not enough punch, maybe with the tubes they will perform better.
Philly
[/quote]

Im not sure about my draw. I have some what short arm, but i pull about 10 or so inches past my cheek i think. I try to get max power for my draw. You may need to shorten up the rubbers to your liking but that is easy. Hope you enjoy them as much as i have. Jerett


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## Delaney

Last month i was able to buy two boxes with a 100 rounds each of lead shot and it cost me 5 dollars a box! pretty cheap indeed. The secret? They were a really weird caliber .433 and it looked like they had been sitting on the shelf for awhile. Now im popping into just about any gun shop i pass just to see if i can find some more deals like this, so thats my suggestion if you want lead rounds on the cheap without casting them yourself. Worked for me!
Brian


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## Sam

Delaney said:


> Last month i was able to buy two boxes with a 100 rounds each of lead shot and it cost me 5 dollars a box! pretty cheap indeed. The secret? They were a really weird caliber .433 and it looked like they had been sitting on the shelf for awhile. Now im popping into just about any gun shop i pass just to see if i can find some more deals like this, so thats my suggestion if you want lead rounds on the cheap without casting them yourself. Worked for me!
> Brian


That is an odd calibre... still perfect for slingshots! (Thinking about it, that's probably one of the slingshots greatest advantages - it's versatile range of potential ammo, it can shoot just about anything...)


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## Delaney

Yeah i thought .433 might be some kind of weird old bore size but nobody seems to have seen it before







oh well like you say its still perfect for slingshots. Of course now all the squirrels seem to be avoiding my back yard all of the sudden


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## philly

I have the same problem Dalaney, Squirells are on to me, they are off and running as soon as the back door opens. Also a problem with safe shooting lanes in the yard. Much better out in the woods, there you can chase after them till you get them settled in and take your shots without worrying about shooting the neighbors house. That's the price we pay for living in suburbia I guess.
Philly


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## Sam

Delaney said:


> Yeah i thought .433 might be some kind of weird old bore size but nobody seems to have seen it before
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> oh well like you say its still perfect for slingshots. Of course now all the squirrels seem to be avoiding my back yard all of the sudden


Lol they're not stupid are they... I had the same exact phenomenon occur with the pigeons in my garden, merely observing me shooting tin cans was enough to scare them off!


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## jskeen

Delaney said:


> Last month i was able to buy two boxes with a 100 rounds each of lead shot and it cost me 5 dollars a box! pretty cheap indeed. The secret? They were a really weird caliber .433 and it looked like they had been sitting on the shelf for awhile. Now im popping into just about any gun shop i pass just to see if i can find some more deals like this, so thats my suggestion if you want lead rounds on the cheap without casting them yourself. Worked for me!
> Brian


Pawn shops often have full or partial boxes of lead balls that they get along with the compatible gun, and will sell them on the cheap. I agree, old dusty little yellow boxes sitting on a shelf will put me on point like a hound on a covey of quails. picked up 3 full 100 rd boxes of .535 for $20 last week in some little backwater town in Oklahoma while on a service call.


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## philly

Finally went out and bought a .45 cal mold from Lee. Cast 150 rounds two weeks ago. Mo more worries about supply or cost, plus you get to have a relaxing time in the process.
Philly


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