# Am I too dumb for this hobby? (Smart Ties?)



## ghostinthemachine (Mar 16, 2021)

Let me start by saying that I haven't shot a slingshot since I was a kid plinking cans with my "wrist rocket". I suddenly became interested in this hobby recently after seeing a video of Bill Hayes' amazing accuracy. After reading many articles and watching way too many videos, my interest grew and I decided to order one of Mr. Hayes' masterpieces. I pulled up pocketpredator.com and ordered the SERE with the "smart ties" for easy band replacement along with some safety glasses, various bands, and a bracelet made by Mr. Hayes' daughter. My order arrived very quickly and I was bouncing with excitement as I opened the box today. Everything was packaged nicely and looked good except for the band. It had come untied from one side during shipping and it appeared that the other side was tied on incorrectly.

"No big deal" I thought. "I have Smart Ties".

I reviewed the smart ties installation video on the web site and got to work. An hour later I went back to the video because I was obviously doing something wrong. After reviewing the video several more times, I realized that he is wrapping the smart tie around way more times than I am. Is there a special ninja technique for stretching this tie so far? Is there a compatibility issue with this particular slingshot?

Back to the fight. I stretched and pulled every way possible. My hand was cramping up and I still couldn't unlock the magic that is hidden within this smart tie. My wife came home at this point, and after watching the video, offered to give it a shot. She tried it a few times and then gave up. I pressed her to try again and after another failed attempt she threatened to divorce me if I tried to persuade her to attempt this challenge again. I tried a few more times but the cramp in my hand seemed to insist that I wait until tomorrow for round two.

The thought of losing round one was still on my mind. Now I'm wondering:

Is this a test from Bill Hayes to see if I am worthy of using his slingshot? Am I failing the challenge by asking for help? Will the grandmaster deem me unworthy of being a slingshotter? Is slingshotter a word? I have so many questions!

Has anyone else had trouble with the SERE and Smart Ties?

Are there different lengths of Smart Ties?

Should I be using two Smart Ties on each side? I could fasten two together by inserting the nylon piece into the end of another Smart Tie. Is this what I'm supposed to be doing?

Also is it normal for the forks to wobble on the hand rest even when the clip is attached?

I would appreciate any help that you may offer. As of right now my hands hurt, I still haven't shot a slingshot since I was a kid, and I'm almost certain that I'm just too dumb for this hobby.


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## ghostinthemachine (Mar 16, 2021)

Update: After I posted this I asked my wife to watch the video with me and try again. If there are any ladies with small nimble fingers out there reading this, I might be single soon. Any interest in a guy that's too dumb to slingshot?


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## Ordo (Feb 11, 2018)

Smart Ties need some practice and strong hands. May be you can start with the usual wrap and tuck method. Many videos online.

And believe me: we were all dumb when newbies.


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## Rayshot (Feb 1, 2010)

Wrap and tuck is plainly simple and effective.


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

The smart ties are ok, it takes some thought, you'll get it  I don't own a Sere, but any fork wobble at all is a big No No to me when shooting heavy bands.


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## Hoss (Jun 3, 2014)

Rayshot said:


> Wrap and tuck is plainly simple and effective.


Wrap and tuck 

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk


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## StringSlap (Mar 2, 2019)

Not a fan. Wrap and tuck with a #32 or #64 office band. Then you can get all fancy and cut your old bands into strips and use those. KISS rule applies here. Sometimes simple beats smart.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

Bill's smart ties work great on his plastic Scorpion. It depends on how wide and deep the notches are cut in the fork tips. For instance, I could not use them on my Mustang or Halberd. I have a large supply of them, hopefully I will use them on the new Scorpion that is coming.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Don’t be discouraged, if things don’t fall into place immediately. I have learned the hard way not to compare myself with any other slingshot shooter. Here is a perfect example of not following what seems to be the more popular way of doing things. Check out Grandpa Grumpy’s videos. He uses rubber bands for his elastic, and modifies daisy slingshots sometimes. There is no one way of banding a slingshot. The main objective to tying bands or tubes is to tie the bands to the fork ends and the pouch so there is no slippage and no ends to obstruct the ammo leaving the pouch. There are other types of attachments such as clamps. I hope you check out other videos such as Simple Shot and pocket predator. I can guarantee Bill Hays main goal is to help all of us be the best we can be. I support both of these gentleman completely 100%


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Welcome to the Forum


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Check out Rufus Hussey videos


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

I would deduce from the information given is that the smart ties you're using are shorter than the ones in the instructional video .


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## ghostinthemachine (Mar 16, 2021)

Thank you all for your help. I emailed pocketpredator about my issue and they recommended the rubber band method. I was really hoping for a slingshot that would be very easy for me or my son to maintain in the field. Since the smart ties don't work and the forks are wobbly I asked them if they have a return policy. I don't know if they accept returns and I honestly wouldn't blame them if they don't give me a refund considering that there seems to be no quality guarantee on their web site. It's my own fault. As a novice I shouldn't have ordered without some sort of guarantee. If they are gracious enough to allow me to return this product, I'm considering purchasing something from simpleshot.com. What do you guys think of the Ocularis banding system or the Quick Clips from simpleshot? Are either of these actually easy? If pocketpredator doesn't do refunds, I'll probably try the wrap and tuck method on a forked stick to get started (since the forks are wobbly on the SERE).


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

ghostinthemachine said:


> Thank you all for your help. I emailed pocketpredator about my issue and they recommended the rubber band method. I was really hoping for a slingshot that would be very easy for me or my son to maintain in the field. Since the smart ties don't work and the forks are wobbly I asked them if they have a return policy. I don't know if they accept returns and I honestly wouldn't blame them if they don't give me a refund considering that there seems to be no quality guarantee on their web site. It's my own fault. As a novice I shouldn't have ordered without some sort of guarantee. If they are gracious enough to allow me to return this product, I'm considering purchasing something from simpleshot.com. What do you guys think of the Ocularis banding system or the Quick Clips from simpleshot? Are either of these actually easy? If pocketpredator doesn't do refunds, I'll probably try the wrap and tuck method on a forked stick to get started (since the forks are wobbly on the SERE).


There are many resources to get slingshots, with/without clips, other than where you are looking. I am willing to bet $1000.00 that Pocket Predator will help you with your issues. They are fine people and stand behind their products.


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

Because of arthritis I sometimes have trouble attaching bands with the wrap and tuck method. This video show the easiest method of attaching bands for me. No fiddly wrap and tuck or clamps. You can use tubes and flat bands but I prefer 117b office bands. Chained #64 and #32 bands work good too. With office rubber bands you can easily make and change band sets in the field. No pouch jigs are required to make bands from office bands. They are also very inexpensive.


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

I have a SERE. And I have made a couple breakdown slingshots myself. A little movement in the fork is common in a two part assembly. There is no worry with that as far as accuracy or safety in the SERE. It is a solid shooter. You can eliminate the movement with a bit of paper inserted at the joint if you like. I find I rarely take mine apart, anyhow.


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## ghostinthemachine (Mar 16, 2021)

KawKan said:


> I have a SERE. And I have made a couple breakdown slingshots myself. A little movement in the fork is common in a two part assembly. There is no worry with that as far as accuracy or safety in the SERE. It is a solid shooter. You can eliminate the movement with a bit of paper inserted at the joint if you like. I find I rarely take mine apart, anyhow.


This proves that I'm dumb. I can't wrap my head around this. I don't understand how accuracy wouldn't be affected from the forks moving. It seems to me that there would be a lack of consistency between shots if the forks moved around with each shot. If the angle of the forks relative to the handle can change by a few degrees, I would think that shot placement would be inconsistent. I'm obviously too dumb for this hobby.


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## Tobor8Man (Nov 19, 2020)

Welcome to the forum.

Don't give up on that SERE yet.!

The SERE is a very well designed slingshot and given your wrist-rocket background, you will probably enjoy it once you figure out wrap and tuck. If not - I am interested in buying it from you. But, let's see if we can get it to work for you.

My suggestion is to practice wrap and tuck on a wrist rocket. Get a Daisy or a Barnett at Walmart. Clamp the wrist rocket to a table or bench using the arms of the wrist brace. Once clamped you will have both hands available for the bands and the rubber bands.

Cut the tubes off the wrist-rocket, even with the fork ends. Leave the remaining tubes on the frame - it makes a good surface for wrap and tucked flat bands. There are lots of YouTube videos on wrap and tuck.

Or just wrap the grip of your SERE in leather or cloth and put it in a vise.

As I have said more times than a broken record - bands are as much art as they are a science. With some practice, you will be wrapping and tucking with the best of them.


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## Tobor8Man (Nov 19, 2020)

And - you are not too dumb for this hobby - which sometimes requires us to suspend disbelief.

Check out a Saunders' Wing - I could not wrap my head around a loose grip and the slingshot falling out of my hand on release. But - after some practice I got used to it and I now shot it as accurately as my target slingshots.

Stick w/ it - it is worthwhile!


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

ghostinthemachine said:


> KawKan said:
> 
> 
> > I have a SERE. And I have made a couple breakdown slingshots myself. A little movement in the fork is common in a two part assembly. There is no worry with that as far as accuracy or safety in the SERE. It is a solid shooter. You can eliminate the movement with a bit of paper inserted at the joint if you like. I find I rarely take mine apart, anyhow.
> ...


When I talk about movement, I mean the tiniest discernible shift, sometimes sensed mostly as a click.

The forks lock into the same place every time. I aim the same every time. The ammo is gone before the forks move during the shot.

Can you break out your protractor and give us an idea of how many degrees movement you are seeing in your forks? Video of the wobble?


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## ghostinthemachine (Mar 16, 2021)

I think I figured out the wobbling problem. It seems to be a problem with the fastening clips. They aren't putting enough pressure on the rear of the fork. I sent this video to Pocket Predator. The very beginning shows the problem, then I force the clip forward and the wobble is almost completely gone. This makes sense to me a little bit. The design of the frame is great, but maybe the outside supplier sent some clips that are slightly different than previous batches. I asked them if they could round up one of their old clips and perhaps make a few smart ties that are slightly longer for me instead of returning it. I figure they can test the clips easily. I'll probably hear back from Daranda within a few hours. She's been very accessible so far in this journey. Thank you everyone for helping me through this. Because of all of your help, I'm starting to think that there's a chance that I might not be too dumb for this hobby.

[sharedmedia=videos:videos:868]


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## ghostinthemachine (Mar 16, 2021)

Roy Rowden- Is the clicking at the end of this video what yours is like? That would be a completely acceptable amount of movement. Now that I've watched the video again, I'm not sure that the beginning of the video showed how much wobble there really is. If you can hear the video, notice the time between clicks as it moves back and forth at the beginning of the video versus the quick little clicks when I'm holding the clip forward. Does yours sound more like the end than the beginning? Thank you very much for your help.


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

Oh, my SERE lock up much tighter than that. I get no rotational movement at all, such as your forks moving one side up and the other back. Mine does click as bands tension at the beginning of the draw.



ghostinthemachine said:


> Roy Rowden- Is the clicking at the end of this video what yours is like? That would be a completely acceptable amount of movement. Now that I've watched the video again, I'm not sure that the beginning of the video showed how much wobble there really is. If you can hear the video, notice the time between clicks as it moves back and forth at the beginning of the video versus the quick little clicks when I'm holding the clip forward. Does yours sound more like the end than the beginning? Thank you very much for your help.


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## dogcatchersito (Jun 6, 2012)

I'm with everyone else I haven't used any other method but the wrap and tuck method.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Berkshire bred (Mar 4, 2012)

Wrap and tuck is the one for me, tried and tested and very simple. From what I understand bill Hayes and team are stand up people so I’m sure they will see you right. If not there are hundreds of other slingshot/catapult options available and also the very rewarding option of making your own as many of us do. Do I detect a uk sense of humour?


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