# The Anti Butterfly Movement - Join Us!



## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

My dear fellow slingshooters,

I got a new fun thing for everybody.

Short bands!

As you may know my 1:10 scale slingshot cannon has a 20 cm draw. So the active band length was just about 4 to 5 cm.

Yet it shoots the 8mm steel ball cleanly through both sides of a full beverage can! I was very surprised.

So I cut a very short band set and attached it to my Pygmalion frame.

The result is just amazing. I cut the bands 10 cm long, so after the attachment I got 7 cm active band length left. The max draw is just 35cm (13").

It shoots the 8mm (.32) steel ball very fast, accurate enough to hit bulls eye at 15 meters. It is super easy to aim and comfortable like you would not believe.

I encourage you to give it a try and join THE NEW MOVEMENT of anti butterfly slingshot fun!

Jörg


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

Lolll

Some people won't like this


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

I have a few slingshots like this. I wikll post later. I never shoot butterfly.


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## John-Boy (Oct 15, 2010)

I shoot short draw with heavy hunting bands and semi and full butterfly for target, i seem to hit bullseye alot more often with butterfly and light bands, and short draw heavy bands!! But thats what im used to.

I will have to give this a try.


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

I have been using a single .030" tapered cut Latex-7/8" x 5/8" x 6 "s on a Starship drawing around 37"s. These bands are just about maxed. The speed is awesome with 3/8" steel. The wear factor however leaves a little to be desired. I'm currently getting maybe 200 shots from a set. I have actually tried much shorter sets with narrower dimensions and they do really well. I do still get a kick out of "Butterfly-Albatross" style shooting though! Something different and elegant I think! Flatband


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

I found with a short single layer of TB-S I had many hits fly from many positions on its recoil, hoever, with a double layer, it worked fine. That was with a narrow fork though, so a wider one might help.


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

I am a proponent of short bands. I prefer the speed and power i get with short bands and a facial anchor point(base of thumb knuckle on mandible) . I have been shooting thera gold at 7.5" in various tapers to achieve speed and power without drawing past my ear. My accuracy and consistency suffers with butterfly.


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## PJB21 (Nov 1, 2010)

ive tried shorter bands before and yes they do have alot of power for the amount of material used, but i dont like the short draw length, i prefer a 35' draw length because it suits my body size and comfortable position to hold.


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

flippinout said:


> I am a proponent of short bands. I prefer the speed and power i get with short bands and a facial anchor point(base of thumb knuckle on mandible) . I have been shooting thera gold at 7.5" in various tapers to achieve speed and power without drawing past my ear. My accuracy and consistency suffers with butterfly.


7.5'' the whole band lenght minus the attachments? What is your draw lenght if I can ask?

Thanks


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm already there. I just can't get the hang of butterfly and it didn't feel comfortable no matter how much I practiced.


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## BaneofSmallGame (Sep 22, 2010)

Woah this is a new one, Joerg jumping on a band wagon... instead of creating his own awe inspiring invention!?









Well I'm happy to say, welcome to the club......pretty impressive power isn't it? Honestly I simply can't get past the fact that a projectile goes whizzing by your head at 200 fps with butterfly. And if it hits you , you weren't even able to stare the danger in the face, it'll be like a backstab.

On to the short bands, I've been relying on a few sets for some time now and they seem to shoot great. I think I can get my most used short set to draw out to about 25-28 in or so.....and this is with about 4 inches of working band length (band left after attachments) That is quite the stretch, and frankly and impressive snap hurling the projectile forward...









Along with that, this is also the entire age old concept behind the chained rubberbands....They are so affective because one draws them back to full length (about 31 in for me) before releasing, this means that the many individual rubberbands (also short in length) are chained to a working length of about 7-9 inches. Therefore when stretched to the point of 25-32 inches (again, for me) depending on the type of rubberbands...... it makes for the same short band stress and snap coming from your thera-gold, Joerg. Which is why slingers like Nico, Jmp, and I use them, because that same short band snap is created, just multiplied across many individual bands. Which is the real reason why they are so powerful and devastating to game...

Have fun with them in the future, they look good on Pygmalion too, take care...
- John


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

Not sure what you are asking, but yes- my bands are around 7.5-8" per side minus the tie ins at fork and pouch. I draw 28.5". Works for me!


Brooklyn00003 said:


> I am a proponent of short bands. I prefer the speed and power i get with short bands and a facial anchor point(base of thumb knuckle on mandible) . I have been shooting thera gold at 7.5" in various tapers to achieve speed and power without drawing past my ear. My accuracy and consistency suffers with butterfly.


7.5'' the whole band lenght minus the attachments? What is your draw lenght if I can ask?

Thanks
[/quote]


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## Dan the Slingshot Man (Nov 21, 2010)

much prefer this over buterfly bands because I can shoot more accurately


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## bleachbone (Nov 15, 2010)

to be honest i am more accurate with shorter with shorter bands than butterfly bands but that is probably because i havent practiced with full butterfly much. i love full butterfly and i am happely learning my version of the Boss. i coated mine with a carbon fiber and kevlar intertwined weave. just in case of any fork hits. for once and this will probably be the only time, i have to disagree with you joerg.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

I've taught Martial Arts for almost 30 years now... one of the first things I've always done is to figure out a person's strengths, what they're good at and build their own particular style out from that. With literally thousands of different movements... punchs, kicks, knees, elbows, head strikes, bone and joint manipulations etc etc... there's so much that a person simply can't be super good at everything.
My philosophy on slingshots is similar.

Experiment with a LOT of different things. Band types, Tubes types, attachments, pouchs, lengths of pull, frame sizes, frame configurations, shooting styles etc etc... For each thing you experiment with, if it feels more natural to you, and seems to help you out... use it! If it doesn't _feel_ right and it takes away from your baseline shooting performance after giving it a fair shake... DON'T use it!

Due to everybody being slightly or more different... What works for you may or may not work well for others... but give new ideas or different methods and techniques a try, put a little effort into it. And even a small thing may change everything for you!


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

I wholeheartedly agree with Bill Hays' post. Sure, you can get good energy out of a short bandset but to say longer draws are no good is silly.

When Bruce Lee showed off his one inch punch he wasn't. Saying it was the only punch in the world, he said "Look what I can do with only once inch of space; imagine what I could do with a proper wind-up."

Likewise, I have written how Chinese tubes are less efficient than regular bands but achieve similar velocities. The reason is they are drawn a bit harder. When you engineer a pair of bands, you have to consider the accuracy trade off of extra peak draw strength vs a facial anchor point. For some people, it's worth it, for others not. For any user, it also depends on what mass of projectile is being shot by the bandset and the characteristics of the bandset.

For winched-drawn slingshot rifles, _yes_, a band that is as short as possible will always be better. You have a limited draw length and unlimited draw force. You might also find the same applies to power lifters to a much more limited extent. However, it certainly doesn't apply to every person and every circumstance, Jörg is smarter than that, so I presume he was being a little facetious with this thread.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

If I could shoot butterfly style, I probably would because it would be less punishing to my arthritic hands. So I have to find the right ratio of draw strength/speed for my individual capabilities. Bill Hays is correct. It is sad, but I know I would get my best power from butterfly style shooting, but I am way too inept at it.








Don't enjoy it at all.


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## John-Boy (Oct 15, 2010)

I tried this out on one of Bill Hays frames i acquired recently *(Great frame BTW







)*, and i have to say i really enjoy zipping 8mm steel through tins with this setup!

I only changed one thing though, i cut the bands 12cm and when tied are now 9cm as its more comfortable as it allows me to anchor 2" short of my preffered anchor point (which is just below my left ear) while not sacrificing the punch of the shorter bandset. *Below i have attached a pic of my setup.*


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> If I could shoot butterfly style, I probably would because it would be less punishing to my arthritic hands. So I have to find the right ratio of draw strength/speed for my individual capabilities. Bill Hays is correct. It is sad, but I know I would get my best power from butterfly style shooting, but I am way too inept at it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I did a Bean test showing the difference between a lady like pull and the manly full Monkey Grip Butterfly Pull and the results are dramatic. If only I could down load the videos. Soon I hope. It may change your mind to continue to pursue mastering the Butterfly.


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

Bill Hays said:


> I've taught Martial Arts for almost 30 years now... one of the first things I've always done is to figure out a person's strengths, what they're good at and build their own particular style out from that. With literally thousands of different movements... punchs, kicks, knees, elbows, head strikes, bone and joint manipulations etc etc... there's so much that a person simply can't be super good at everything.
> My philosophy on slingshots is similar.
> 
> Experiment with a LOT of different things. Band types, Tubes types, attachments, pouchs, lengths of pull, frame sizes, frame configurations, shooting styles etc etc... For each thing you experiment with, if it feels more natural to you, and seems to help you out... use it! If it doesn't _feel_ right and it takes away from your baseline shooting performance after giving it a fair shake... DON'T use it!
> ...


I agree with all Bill Is saying as well, I have studied martial arts many years as well and each person has to "find their own way". of course a guide is very helpful and can take years of experimenting out of the equation.


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## Botus (Dec 3, 2010)

Although new to the slingshot world I have been using short band set ups for the simple reason I find it most comfortable for shooting. Having read some of ZDP-189's excellent scientific work and with a little of my own experimentation I have also (and this will go totally against the grain!) been using theraband blue. I only have time for plinking fun (and it is) at the moment and am using 6mm steel and the effects are immense to say the least! Cannot really comment on the martial arts side but for sports I am heavily involved with, like surfing, often the best method is one that presents itself naturally. As long as people are enjoying it, its all good in my book!


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

I favor short bands and they are faster to load and less tangle. Most of my tube shooters have a 5-1/2 inch from pouch to fork, But, I still pull them out some where close to 58 inches. I cant seem to hold a cheek shot and I mostly dont hit the target with this ridgid style of shooting. I like the Freelance Style of Butterfly. FlatBands just dont hold up if they are too short, But, I just let er rip anyways. Band and tubes too long shoot sloppy. So find the length that works for your style of shooting. I like to think Thunderdome, anything goes.


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