# B.o.b



## jodymikazule

Who keeps a Catty in their Bug Out Bag? Does anyone think a sling shot can actually be used as solid defense?


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## LVO

Bug out bags are not all about defense. It can be used to kill small game for food or to get rid of pests. And it will be quiet.
I count a few slings as a nice addition to my Go bag.


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## strikewzen

anything weaker than empty hand combat is an ineffective weapon, the only effective target to strike(imo) would be the tibia (shin bone)

but i suppose bug out bag is not used for self defense, but for survival in general, so yes with practice you can hunt small animals as demonstrated by forum members in the hunting section

for self defence carry a fixed blade in a position you are able to reach when pinned down on the ground


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## strikewzen

actually... for the same weight and space you might want to just carry chocolate instead of your slingshot and ammo


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## newconvert

jodymikazule said:


> Who keeps a Catty in their Bug Out Bag? Does anyone think a sling shot can actually be used as solid defense?


we had this debate a while back

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/14529-would-you-feel-safe/page__hl__%20self%20%20defense


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## Charles

I do not worry about defense ... I would worry about getting food, water and shelter.

I do not understand why folks think about packing slingshot ammo, when stones are found just about everywhere.

On the topic of candybars, a slingshot will feed me far longer than a candy bar. Give me a good knife (preferably two), fire making equipment, hooks, fishing line, snare wire, a slingshot with spare bands, perhaps some water purification tabs or iodine, a small pot, and the knowledge of how to use it all.

But that is just my view ....

Cheers ....... Charles


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## Rockape66

When it comes to survival in a non-tropical environment; fat can be far more important to other considerations. Small animals are easy to snare. Water is readily available, except in desert areas. A debris shelter is easily constructed. Small animals are very lean, and fat is necessary for protein metabolism. Fat can also be used for other purposes: heat, light, water proofing, lubrication...etc. Primitive peoples would generally carry cleaned intestine filled with rendered fat. Like a lard sausage. I don't often see anyone considering this in their B.O.B.'s.


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## strikewzen

when you're looking for food, rocks and cooking them you are not moving, survival is not left up to chance

in heavy rain can't have a fire either


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## pop shot

We talking bout zombies or surviving? I'm with Charles and rock on this one with some added para cord


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## Jakerock

strikewzen said:


> when you're looking for food, rocks and cooking them you are not moving, survival is not left up to chance
> 
> in heavy rain can't have a fire either


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## jodymikazule

I have a good Gerber fixed blade as well as a so-so pocket knife. I sharpen and strop my Gerber every couple of days, at least. I also have a utility tool. AND... many other survival items in my BOB (fuel stove, pool shock, homemade dehydrated MRE, tiny tent, magnesium, crank flashlight...ect). What I don't own (yet) or know how to use (yet) is a firearm... so I was considering a slingshot as an added possible weapon against "zombies" (starving dehydrated desperate people whose survival instinct has kicked in to get MY stash) in addition to small game.

Ive seen some nasty looking thumb injuries in the pic gallery here, just wondering if you could crack a squirrel skull... why not a human skull with really good aim and velocity?

I totally agree with the ammo comment Charles. Carrying a full 150-200 round pouch full of .40 caliber ammo pulls my hips outta alignment!!! Lol


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## jodymikazule

And... also... the topic of chocolate... well... what girls go bag wouldnt have a small supply anyhow? Lol


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## strikewzen

i know this is the slingshot forum and so i will stop with the chocolate.... just something ZDP used to discuss with us in chatroom and i think his ideas made sense

there was a police demonstration on youtube that the time to deploy firearms takes longer than an assailant can run at you with a knife in range of 19 yards (this is with proper training) so you need to keep your distance when relying on firearms, same with slingshots. in a surprised attack you can't reach into the bag and have ammo loaded and limited to one shot

a shot to the skull could be effective, less the evasive instinct and ability to cover up with arms from your target, head hunting is difficult on a target that is aware of your ranged weapon. a cracked skull does not detract the mobility from a commited individual

i enjoy watching bear grylls etc and never took a survival training course unlike many here have clearly done so, therefore the difference in opinions, my apologies


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## Rayshot

I have one in my BOB for hunting. Unless one has a good store of latex I don't expect it to be a longterm tool.


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## harpersgrace

I love it B.O.B.s the air-raid shelters of the 21st century.


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## Jakerock

strikewzen said:


> a shot to the skull could be effective, less the evasive instinct and ability to cover up with arms from your target, head hunting is difficult on a target that is aware of your ranged weapon. a cracked skull does not detract the mobility from a commited individual


I Guess you havent seen dgui's shooting? Zombies dont stand a chance.


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## bikermikearchery

Charles said:


> I do not worry about defense ... I would worry about getting food, water and shelter.
> 
> I do not understand why folks think about packing slingshot ammo, when stones are found just about everywhere.
> 
> On the topic of candybars, a slingshot will feed me far longer than a candy bar. Give me a good knife (preferably two), fire making equipment, hooks, fishing line, snare wire, a slingshot with spare bands, perhaps some water purification tabs or iodine, a small pot, and the knowledge of how to use it all.
> 
> But that is just my view ....
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


Very Good statement. Well put.
Simple rule of 3's
For most people, in good health and under reasonable circumstance, you can survive.
3 minutes with out air.
3 hours with out protection from the elements/Shelter
3 Days with out water
3 weeks with out food.
Tag to the rule of 3's (every thing on your survival kit should have 3 uses)
Purpose of the rule of 3's is to prioritize your survival training and kits.
#1 keep your lungs and heart healthy
#2 Shelter making and Fire making should be on the top of your training for out door skills.
#3 Water is necessary for regulating your body's core temperature and metabolizing energy. 33% of Earths land mass is desert, A good chunk of what's left is arid land. (71% of the earth surface is salt water) It is estimated that 90 % of the fresh water in the world is contaminated with giardia and salmonella. All of this means that Finding and purifying water is of the highest priority.
#4 Food. Not that this is less important, Its just that shelter from the elements and water are urgent concerns, where as food is a long team concern. With room to debate the subject, Survival is usually the first 24 hours.
Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
1, can procure small game.
2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
4, bands used an lashing
5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)


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## Jakerock

Who in this thread has been out in the bush alone for two days or more with only their B.O.B.?


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## Imperial

the only thing in my b.o.b. is chapstick.


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## mr.joel

I've been in the bush longer with no B.O.B, Wilson, or anybody else!


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## Jakerock

LOL @ Wilson!


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## mr.joel




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## August West

Yeah I been out longer. I don't think a slingshot is a viable weapon or survival tool at all. As far as providing food in a remote wilderness fantasy scenario learning snares, cordage making and net making is much more important IMO, what you know can't be taken away or lost.

However a much, much better question is what are you trying to survive? And just how quickly is it going to be important to know how to harvest small critters?
BOB = Bug Out Bag, where are you bugging out to? How will you get there,? How long do you plan to stay? How many other people are going to be thinking the same thing and are there local people already there?

This list just keeps going, lots and lots of much more important questions to answer before worrying about a slingshot. This is all just my opinion and is worth exactly what you paid for it. LOL Chris


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## mr.joel

Frogman might disagree with Chris, however his setup is designed to be longer term (tubes) and very hard hitting. There are exceptions to every rule, but in general I would not count on it. It requires store bought items that break down too quickly. I would say it could be incidentally used but would not rely on it as such. A throwing stick would be just as effective and likely serve you longer in terms of making meat as well.


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## Bruno529

Great discussion. As has been said, what exactly is your particular b.o.b. meant to help you accomplish, long term survival , short term etc. So let's say one's of the belief that you must remain moving and only be staying in places temporarily (lengths of time vary depending on circumstance). Long term needs must be met with your bug out bag. Then would a slingshot be justified? As far as self defense, the most important thing would to be as stealth as possible and to spot the enemy first. If you don't have time to deploy said weapon it is of no use. I like a good knife or three. A new shooter's opinion.
Is a slingshot justified for long term?

I guess if I thought stuff would hit the fan soon I'd be better served learning other survival techniques than practising my shooting, but I just started this and I wanna shoot stuff !!!


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## mr.joel

I got into slingshots thinking it would be a good "survival" weapon, but as it turns out I think not. The closest thing might be packing some surgical tubing in your BOB as it has many uses, including extracting water from hard to get at places which by itself would justify it's presence. You could build one johnny-on-the-spot if need be. As previously stated you would likely have better resources available for a fighting tool from natural materials. Don't forget the ubiquitous yet often readily available rock.

Slingshots for me are just for fun, and what's wrong with that?


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## mr.joel

August West said:


> what you know can't be taken away or lost.


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## akmslingshots

i'd rather have my mathews switchback, a quiver full of arrows and a couple of good knives

but... if the space and situation allowed a slingshot would be in my kit


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## Jakerock

Bottom line is I would take one just so I would have something to do and keep from going crazy.

I just hate survival / opinion threads so very much. Profound loathing for self appointed survival experts.
Myself included.


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## mr.joel

akmslingshots said:


> but... if the space and situation allowed a slingshot would be in my kit


Carry it? Sure. Rely on it? Nahhhhh!


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## akmslingshots

not if i had my bow... or the means to make a bow...


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## akmslingshots

a slingbow however is another thing altogether.... this is something i may keep in a bug out bag


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## mr.joel

Jakerock said:


> If I ate meat


I guarantee you will eat meat if you are stuck or living in the Rockies, especially in winter...or you will starve.


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## mr.joel

All your bug out bag needs is a knife, blanket, and a water container. The rest is gravy. Skills far exceed kit.


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## pop shot

harpersgrace said:


> I love it B.O.B.s the air-raid shelters of the 21st century.


Harp nailed it.


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## mr.joel

pop shot said:


> I love it B.O.B.s the air-raid shelters of the 21st century.


Harp nailed it.
[/quote]

Yes, the BOB is often equated with people watching for black helicopters. Often enough this is true. However, if you have ever had need to disappear in the night, you would see it's value.


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## Jakerock

mr.joel said:


> If I ate meat


I guarantee you will eat meat if you are stuck or living in the Rockies, especially in winter...or you will starve.
[/quote]

Yep, I will starve. But I will plink a whole lot of rocks for fun first!


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## JetBlack

Of course its in my bag! For killing small game but it can be used as defense, even more so with an arrow. So could a blowgun even non poisoned. I say go for the face-you'll discourage anyone with a face shot within 40 feet using 1/2 inch ammo and good bands. Imagine being hit in the teeth,eye or temple...


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## mr.joel

Jakerock said:


> If I ate meat


I guarantee you will eat meat if you are stuck or living in the Rockies, especially in winter...or you will starve.
[/quote]

Yep, I will starve. But I will plink a whole lot of rocks for fun first!
[/quote]

Suit yerself, pilgrim.


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## harpersgrace

mr.joel said:


> All your bug out bag needs is a knife, blanket, and a water container. The rest is gravy. Skills far exceed kit.


Boy I must be more prepared than I though...I carry at least two knifes on me at all times, a slingshot in a back pocket, ammo in the front, I have a rifle and a shot gun in my bedroom, in my car I have a emergency kit which contains a emergency blanket, flares,candles, gloves, fire starter, two gallons of water and a portable CB radio, oh almost forgot a tarp and machete....I grew up in the mid-west where having those things ready were common sense not a B.O.B. all comes down to semantics I guess...cause what most people are describing as survival my father called camping...


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## mr.joel

JetBlack said:


> Of course its in my bag! For killing small game but it can be used as defense, even more so with an arrow. So could a blowgun even non poisoned. I say go for the face-you'll discourage anyone with a face shot within 40 feet using 1/2 inch ammo and good bands. Imagine being hit in the teeth,eye or temple...


You're assuming it's only one person, often it would be more, what then? I reckon the rest won't just hold still while you shoot them down like pop cans...? I'm not saying it wouldn't ever work, but for about the same space in your BOB, realistically a .22 pistol would do all those things better and malfunction less frequently.


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## jodymikazule

Most defiantly, Knowledge is by far the safest AND LIGHTEST (since every ounce = a pound in your pack, while your humpin on the road) skill you could carry around with your BOB. I couldnt agree more. Hopefully the use of a BOB would be just for a few days... its made for transition... but also to keep the most viable items with you that may be needed long term.

A sling bow is somethings Ive been curious about since I first read the Literary Porn... Clan of the Cave Bear years ago. Ill look into a slingbow more carefully.

I do think a straight catty is a viable option, at least for hunting game (or green walnuts if your a vegetarian







Survivalists will tell you to have multiple ways to start fire.... carry at least two knives... and if your into guns? One for your palm and one on a sling. Why not an additional mode of distraction (at least) if not defense? As someone stated earlier... if your being cornered, time is key. Maybe a few nuggets on the head from an unknown direction would deter/ confuse some?

Harp... that was a good one and I laughed my tooshe off. However, History repeats itself sometimes in subtle & ambivalent ways. Other times it slams a drought on your state or a hurricane into your city and folks are left unprepared, expecting their Govt to come and save them (mostly they do...thank goodness for that) but what of the Katrina's and Greensburgs, when they didnt make it fast enough and did a horrible job (the leaders.. NOT the troops following the orders) pulling things back together? I want to be self reliant as I can & NOT to pushed into a Fema farm or Super Dome to be assaulted..... Or scooped up by Mayan Martians


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## mr.joel

harpersgrace said:


> All your bug out bag needs is a knife, blanket, and a water container. The rest is gravy. Skills far exceed kit.


all comes down to semantics I guess...cause what most people are describing as survival my father called camping...
[/quote]
Yes, I would rather call it camping and do in my circles, but many here would be confused as this means a a designated Forest Service campground or a KOA campground and RVs to many. I have no BOB presently, but can easily chuck the aforementioned items in my Becker Patrol Pack and be down the trail. A "BOB" is only needed if you predict that you may not even have time to do that.


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## mr.joel

jodymikazule said:


> I want to be self reliant as I can & NOT to pushed into a Fema farm or Super Dome to be assaulted..... Or scooped up by Mayan Martians


Oh boy, here we go...Chris? You wanna post that again?


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## jodymikazule

Yes... Mr. Joel... I have some paranoia and at times a soap box. Lol.


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## mr.joel

I can't help it...it must be done...Since Chris is not here I will find it and re-post, in advance don't take it personally, just for a laugh.

It's not paranoia if they ARE out to get you, in my case it usually derives from my soapbox.


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## mr.joel




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## harpersgrace

jodymikazule said:


> Harp... that was a good one and I laughed my tooshe off. However, History repeats itself sometimes in subtle & ambivalent ways. Other times it slams a drought on your state or a hurricane into your city and folks are left unprepared, expecting their Govt to come and save them (mostly they do...thank goodness for that) but what of the Katrina's and Greensburgs, when they didnt make it fast enough and did a horrible job (the leaders.. NOT the troops following the orders) pulling things back together? I want to be self reliant as I can & NOT to pushed into a Fema farm or Super Dome to be assaulted..... Or scooped up by Mayan Martians


hey I dont blame or slam anyone for what they want to do, but as some one who has live through the Cold War, Cuban Missile crisis (get under you desk, put your head between your knees, dont look at the flash and kiss your arse goodbye), the China Syndrom Crisis, Watergate, the Oil crisis, the "Great" Recession, the Aids Crisis, the end of the millenium crisis, and other end of the world crisis that I cant even think of right now..you really got to have a sense of humor and take all of this with a huge grain of salt....


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## Jakerock

mr.joel said:


> Of course its in my bag! For killing small game but it can be used as defense, even more so with an arrow. So could a blowgun even non poisoned. I say go for the face-you'll discourage anyone with a face shot within 40 feet using 1/2 inch ammo and good bands. Imagine being hit in the teeth,eye or temple...


You're assuming it's only one person, often it would be more, what then? I reckon the rest won't just hold still while you shoot them down like pop cans...? I'm not saying it wouldn't ever work, but for about the same space in your BOB, realistically a .22 pistol would do all those things better and malfunction less frequently.
[/quote]

Try putting rocks in a .22 when you run out of ammo!


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## treefork

mr.joel said:


>


 I thought this video offended you when August West posted it in response to your comments in a previous post???????


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## jodymikazule

LMAO! Funny clip!
Harp... I got salt in my BOB as well


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## Imperial

only real use i can see a slingshot getting in survival circumstances are using it to herd prey into a suitable kill zone or to use in place of firearm ammo on small animals . or as a way to "scare" off any other predators at night without making a loud bang.


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## August West

Sorry, had to watch the Braves, got beat by the way.

I agree with harpersgrace, I don't think anything besides your house burning down is going to happen so fast you need a survival pack instantly available 24/7, and if your house burns down appropriate clothing, cash and scrip meds are much more important than snare wire or slingshots. Chris


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## Jakerock

mr.joel said:


>


THAT is one of the funniest things I have seen in my life, and much needed levity. Wow.


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## Bruno529

I thought the video was hilarious. When i used the term Stuff hit the fan, I myself meant everything,.......no coming back......to the old way....total anarchy everywhere. That kind of thing....and no I'm not the least bit prepared for that, and if that kind of thing was coming I see no use in preparing for anything but big ole BBQ with lots of beer that will last 'til they get me.


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## jodymikazule

I guess I think of having a Bob is as about as level as paying for any type of vehicle insurance.


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## August West

I have wrecked a lot more than I have lived through TEOTWAWKI events. Chris


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## Jakerock

"I guess I think of having a Bob is as about as level as paying for any type of vehicle insurance."

What language is that?


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## jodymikazule

Its Jody language







level ---> equal to
Point taken Chris. As have I. Hard to explain the logic I see in having a B.O.B to others who do not. Im fast realizing that mentioning BOBs in the wrong forum is much like bringing up religion or politics... a No-No.

Really just wanted to know if a slingshot could cause serious 'stopping' injury. Mostly say not. Unless your stopping a critter.


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## harpersgrace

jodymikazule said:


> LMAO! Funny clip!
> Harp... I got salt in my BOB as well


Yes but how about toilet paper everybody forgets the TP


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## August West

I don't think it is so much of a no no Jody, I live, breathe and sleep preparedness. I just want people to think about what they are doing, for example how many pack snare wire and have never snared an animal, or a fishing kit, or even the concept of a BOB and have no earthly idea why or where they are going to bug out to. Think for a minute about how long it would take or how far the world would have to fall for people to go back to a hunting gathering lifestyle, in other words, you have to kill small animals to stay alive. That is going to take a good long while to happen, if ever, definitely not overnight, as long as there are goats and chickens I am not going back to hunting and gathering and to be honest no one else will either.

Think about a scenario that you would need a BOB packed all the time, I can't think of a one besides the one I mentioned, your house burning down, everything else you are going to have time to plan and prepare. I think the great depression is a great period to study to learn what sort of preparedness works and what doesn't. Chris


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## strikewzen

jodymikazule said:


> Im fast realizing that mentioning BOBs in the wrong forum is much like bringing up religion or politics... a No-No.
> 
> Really just wanted to know if a slingshot could cause serious 'stopping' injury. Mostly say not. Unless your stopping a critter.


it's an open forum say whatever you want, i really enjoyed your thread as there are a few which allow people to voice their opinions, most threads people just say nice slingshot i like it etc, this is far more interesting

the point i was trying to convey was if your slingshot was in your hands, or available for quick draw, yes it could make a difference. however under stress when your target has marked you and approaching rapidly you must have a plan B when close quarter combat is unavoidable, since whatever is left to chance you gamble with your life.

i hope you enjoy this forum!


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## strikewzen

always wondered since everyone seem to carry a few knives if this would be effective






if you land one you should be able to outrun the bleeding target hehe


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## treefork

strikewzen said:


> always wondered since everyone seem to carry a few knives if this would be effective
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> if you land one you should be able to outrun the bleeding target hehe


 WOW! He's good! Any distance,any knife,


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## jodymikazule

Harp... LMAO. Well... ya know... the ladies most always seem to need double the amount of TP gentlemen do! I need to learn about the soft..plyable... leafy green kind! Lol
Strike... Ive always had a lil crush on the Great Throwzini







actually I had a best girlfriend back in the day that hurled an ax pretty **** good. She is gorgeous and had to keep the men off-a her some how! Lol
Chris... you are so right about the Depression. I am also a thrifty kinda girl and the stuff at Estate Sales are absolute prime. You can tell the homes that went through that horrible time. They saved EVERYTHING and Ive found more deals on canning jars than Id care to count. Not found any good marbles yet though. Lol. But what kid wouldnt covet them and pass em on as heirlooms. Ive drooled over a few in my Moms antique store. Hardship like that defiantly makes ya cherish and hoard what you have earned. Not seen one catty though...


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## mr.joel

Jakerock said:


> Of course its in my bag! For killing small game but it can be used as defense, even more so with an arrow. So could a blowgun even non poisoned. I say go for the face-you'll discourage anyone with a face shot within 40 feet using 1/2 inch ammo and good bands. Imagine being hit in the teeth,eye or temple...


You're assuming it's only one person, often it would be more, what then? I reckon the rest won't just hold still while you shoot them down like pop cans...? I'm not saying it wouldn't ever work, but for about the same space in your BOB, realistically a .22 pistol would do all those things better and malfunction less frequently.
[/quote]

Try putting rocks in a .22 when you run out of ammo!
[/quote].....try making a band from scrounged materials in the bush. Might be possible...in Malaysia.


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## mr.joel

treefork said:


>


 I thought this video offended you when August West posted it in response to your comments in a previous post???????
[/quote]

"I think it was more of a matter of your presentation, if not your intent. If you had presented it in another fashion I would have laughed right along with you. It came off quite belittling, and with that in mind I do not think I overreacted in the slightest. Your affections to these skills were overshadowed by this point hence their perceived ignorance on my part."

Yes and this is what I said after we established he wasn't being insulting. Knowing this would entail you following the whole thread, which would be advisable before criticizing. Unlike how Chris said/posted it initially, you will notice I was quite clear that it was in jest. I could not resist after the mention of FEMA camps. Anything else, officer?


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## mr.joel

jodymikazule said:


> Really just wanted to know if a slingshot could cause serious 'stopping' injury. Mostly say not. Unless your stopping a critter.


 No, it certainly could cause serious injury to a human. Watch Joerg Sprave shoot 16mm lead with an ungody amount of rubber behind it, surely it could kill. It just would not be my first choice in that role. Using the slingshots at the power levels most of us use, then I would say not.

However, Joerg is a huge dude, can you realistically and repeatedly make hits with this kind of setup? How about when you are hungry and exhausted?


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## pop shot

I wonder how accurate Jorg is with those huge bands


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## mr.joel

If I remember correctly, he claims not to be the best shot in the universe, however it is hard to say as many tend to downplay their accuracy level. Only those who have seen him shoot can truly answer that.


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## JetBlack

People always compare a gun to a ss , why? Of course a gun is better for self defense, but like some one said, when your out of ammo that gun is worthless, for survival a slingshot should not be discounted....
I like an h and r single shot 12 Ga with a 22 adapter, that's the way to go for survival-defense-scavenging


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## treefork

mr.joel said:


>


 I thought this video offended you when August West posted it in response to your comments in a previous post???????
[/quote]

"I think it was more of a matter of your presentation, if not your intent. If you had presented it in another fashion I would have laughed right along with you. It came off quite belittling, and with that in mind I do not think I overreacted in the slightest. Your affections to these skills were overshadowed by this point hence their perceived ignorance on my part."

Yes and this is what I said after we established he wasn't being insulting. Knowing this would entail you following the whole thread, which would be advisable before criticizing. Unlike how Chris said/posted it initially, you will notice I was quite clear that it was in jest. I could not resist after the mention of FEMA camps. Anything else, officer?















[/quote]ya


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## NightKnight

I don't see a slingshot as a survival item because rubber is too fragile to be effective in most survival situations. How many times have we had bands break unexpectly on us. How much would it suck to have one break when in survival situation. Thick tubes would last longer, but they are also more prone to weather related issues. Ever tried to use thick tubes in cold weather? I have, and they suck. 
I have been kicking around trying to learn how to use a sling. If you can get accurate with that, you don't have to worry much about durability.


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## mr.joel

JetBlack said:


> People always compare a gun to a ss , why? Of course a gun is better for self defense, but like some one said, when your out of ammo that gun is worthless, for survival a slingshot should not be discounted....
> I like an h and r single shot 12 Ga with a 22 adapter, that's the way to go for survival-defense-scavenging


If you want a survival weapon that uses rocks, it is plainly obvious a hand sling is superior.


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## NightKnight

Stole your thunder by 2 minutes Joel.


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## jodymikazule

Okay... lets move on to ammo then. Is it possible to create a more lethal ammo? How about something with a point? Is it possible to let fly an arrow head? Is there any ammo out there that is filled with viper venom or itching powder? Lol


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## mr.joel

Yep you beat me Aaron.

Do you still mean slingshots? 12mm(.470)-16mm(.63) lead balls are hard hitters, more weight in the ball is more desirable if you're even thinking about shooting two leggeds. This of course means heavier bands to shoot them. .38-.45 wadcutter bullets or likely a 1/2 ounce egg sinker would be more deadly than a ball at the same given weight. They tumble in flight much like a 5.56 NATO round at range.

I use a 23" woven sling with 2 and 3 oz. egg sinkers, those are deadly enough. A kestrophendon is a sling like weapon designed to hurl heavy bolts, there's a point that can be hurled, but I doubt it's worth the bother in terms of practicality.

Poisons are for arrows and blowguns, your options there are limited in North America. Hemlock could be an option, I tried making some from the root once, but never used it. I kinda doubt it would be that effective as someone else must have tried it before; you'd think we'd have heard about it if it worked. Plain old rat poison could work...perhaps not instant death, but upon entering the bloodstream would likely sicken your enemy at minimum. One of the most effective poisons you could obtain, although a delayed effect would be plain old fecal matter. This realization caused me to abandon the hemlock project.

I'd look into a short (15-18") Apache sling for your requirements, I think that's your best option. Short slings are faster to employ, create no whirring sound for several seconds, are more effective at the range intended, and have a shorter learning curve. Be sure to learn the Apache style of it's use, it's da&$ effective and worthy of your study.

Check out www.slinging.org for good info on the Apache sling.


----------



## jodymikazule

WOW. Mr. Joel... thanks! What an awsom suggestion! Outstanding!


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## strikewzen

some poisoned caltrops? you throw a bunch and lure target into them and repeat lol

tungsten ammo might increase penetration but that's $$


----------



## mr.joel

strikewzen said:


> some poisoned caltrops? you throw a bunch and lure target into them and repeat lol
> 
> tungsten ammo might increase penetration but that's $$


Here's one to beat the band: take a two glass jars and fill them with .50 steel, spray them with WD-40. Upon contact throw both down and run. Your opponent will be momentarily confused by the bouncing balls, and if he does pursue...whooops! My shoe! Requires a jacket with deep pockets as well as pavement or hard flooring.


----------



## treefork

mr.joel said:


> some poisoned caltrops? you throw a bunch and lure target into them and repeat lol
> 
> tungsten ammo might increase penetration but that's $$


Here's one to beat the band: take a two glass jars and fill them with .50 steel, spray them with WD-40. Upon contact throw both down and run. Your opponent will be momentarily confused by the bouncing balls, and if he does pursue...whooops! My shoe! Requires a jacket with deep pockets as well as pavement or hard flooring.
[/quote]Good idea. I Seen the roadrunner do this to the coyote in a cartoon once.


----------



## mr.joel

That is exactly where the idea came from, a buddy of mine thought it up. Silly as it sounds, I'll be dipped in $#@% if it doesn't work! It has been tested. Works especially well in an enclosed aisle or hallway.


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## harpersgrace

If you're looking for a offensive weapon with a little more take down power than a SS you might want to look into a short bow, similar to the ones use by the plains Indians. Apx. 40 long and about 50lb pull usually with about a 20 in draw they are fine for snap shooting out to about 10-15 yrds. 
Not as good as a gun in some ways but with advantages of it's own.


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## jodymikazule

For some reason, the original Batman show keeps providing cartoon caption bubbles when I imagine the slick balls! ZONK! POW! SWISH!
There are so many back to basic weapons Ive not heard of. Im so glad I came here! Whose got info on a Blow gun for me??? Lol Thanks everyone!


----------



## mr.joel

Yes, Chris and I often joked about the cartoon like nature of such an escape. I always thought it would be even more hilarious if they were deployed on someone asking for a light or some other innocent interaction by Mr. Paranoid. Some random guy scratching his head with all those balls bouncing about...make a great TV ad or a skit...

Conduit works fine for a blowgun, or if you want a traditional Native American type use river cane, but I don't think it grows in Kansas. You will need a long piece of steel to burn out the joints. You will spend a good day gently heating and bending the barrel straight. Cherokee style darts you can make from shish kabab sticks (traditionally they were oak, but man that's tedious), cotton, and kite string. .60-.75 is an optimal bore size. Those .40 caliber ones you get at the fair are a joke. I had to shoot a MOUSE twice with one to put him down. I bet those would work on flying birds though with different than the provided piano wire ammo.

The larger bore provides more air capacity=power. 6 feet is a minimum length, preferably a bit longer. I was taught by Steve Watts how to make a Cherokee blowgun, they are quite powerful and capable of putting a kabab stick 2-3 inches into a cottonwood (which is super soft) log round at 25 yards.

http://blowgun.lefora.com/ great blowgun forum

Ron Hood's Woodsmaster Series, "Primitive Weapons" video is something you should look at.


----------



## August West

I have shot several crittters with a blowgun, they are super inefficient killers, almost no KE and very little bleeding and trauma. Most of the time the animal just runs away with the dart, IMO without poison dart frogs blowguns are next to useless. If the goal of this is to provide food, put a few conibears in your BOB and learn snaring and trapping techniques. If it is self defense at range but without firearms, then a big ole can of bear spray might be better than nothing. Chris


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## mr.joel

That is somewhat true, the biggest animal the Cherokee blowgun was used for was squirrel. In that capacity, this blowgun works well. However it is shooting a much thicker dart than the wire type darts. Conversely, North Carolina does have river cane. Sans poison I wouldn't even think of it for humans.

Connibear traps are a very good item. RAM power snares are pretty cool too. If you are going to learn trapping I suggest starting out with a not-so-bright animal, like a marmot or a rock chuck. If you do not want to eat it, use a breakable string to simulate a snare. No need to kill it if you're not going to eat it. If you haven't gutted and skinned an animal you will obviously need to learn to do this also.

http://ramconnection.com/ram-power-snares

Back to defense, the Easy Stik Pro was a great item, but is no longer made. It was a brass weighted hand quarrel that could be thrown individually or up to five at once up into the air raining blades on your adversary. It has more of a wounding effect but would surely deter most anyone if squarely hit. The Romans used a similar technique using lead bolts with tin flights and an arrowhead, they were called plumbata. They were concealed in their shields and were thrown by the five at a charging enemy before engaging with the philum.

http://www.easystikpro.de/e/index.html


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## strikewzen

so if you tie each caltrop with breakable string at enough tension to safely drag them behind you while you run, can you safely "kite" the target with a slingshot lol

thanks everyone for their contributing ideas i am learning a lot hehe


----------



## mr.joel

caltrops aren't such a bad idea, the problem is how to carry them? If you say bag of holding I'm going to have to slap you!









Perhaps a fanny pack with a deployable flap to release them? Kinda like a James Bond car with an oil slick. Yeah, I know, it's ridiculous but it was an interesting idea.


----------



## strikewzen

i thought most of them are stackable for example http://www.karatemart.com/ninja-caltrop-tashibishi

how to carry them... maybe like a leather tube that you can open one end and swing to deloy... let me ask around on ninja forums lol


----------



## treefork

August West said:


> I have shot several crittters with a blowgun, they are super inefficient killers, almost no KE and very little bleeding and trauma. Most of the time the animal just runs away with the dart, IMO without poison dart frogs blowguns are next to useless. If the goal of this is to provide food, put a few conibears in your BOB and learn snaring and trapping techniques. If it is self defense at range but without firearms, then a big ole can of bear spray might be better than nothing. Chris


Have you tried a large bore(.62 cal x 7 ft. ) with razor broad heads. Well placed shot works for small game (rabbit, birds ect)


----------



## mr.joel

hmmm...I was thinking of the heavier European type of caltrop used for horses...those look much more practical if not as nasty. The tube is an interesting idea, Jen.


----------



## mr.joel

treefork said:


> I have shot several crittters with a blowgun, they are super inefficient killers, almost no KE and very little bleeding and trauma. Most of the time the animal just runs away with the dart, IMO without poison dart frogs blowguns are next to useless. If the goal of this is to provide food, put a few conibears in your BOB and learn snaring and trapping techniques. If it is self defense at range but without firearms, then a big ole can of bear spray might be better than nothing. Chris


Have you tried a large bore(.62 cal x 7 ft. ) with razor broad heads. Well placed shot works for small game (rabbit, birds ect)
[/quote]The larger bore really does make the difference when combined with an effective dart. I honestly think a thicker wooden dart is more effective than a thin wire. 
Check out this interesting stun dart:
http://www.blowgun.com/shop/item.aspx?itemid=203


----------



## August West

I grew up with Cherokees in extreme western NC, Graham Co, and was taught to make blowgun darts out of locust. I have never tried darts with razors but I have shot more than a few squirrels with blowguns and arrows and had lots run off with my arrows and darts. I shot a squirrel in the left hip with a 22/19 and a field tip, it exited the right shoulder penetrated to the feathers, the squirrel still ran off with my arrow and had to be ran down and beat over the head. I am older and wiser now, I still love to squirrel hunt with my bow but I don't shoot game with field tips or blowguns.

Squirrels are suckers for a snare pole, if we are talking fantasy survival that is the way I would go, without poison blowguns are worthless on anything larger than an English Sparrow. Chris


----------



## jodymikazule

All this different primitive weapon & ammo was on the brain when I took me a cat nap. I dreamed of black light hunting! Lol. the ammo I had in my "dream sling" glowed in the dark! Orange when I loaded and wizzing purple when I fired! Lol. Whatever weird critter I was aiming at a neon blue eyes. Kinda reminded me of Pac Man... or a high school acid flash back!


----------



## Bruno529

I see the term "acid flash back" and the name August West and for a moment thought I was on a different forum. D:=


----------



## treefork




----------



## mr.joel

August West said:


> I grew up with Cherokees in extreme western NC, Graham Co, and was taught to make blowgun darts out of locust. I have never tried darts with razors but I have shot more than a few squirrels with blowguns and arrows and had lots run off with my arrows and darts. I shot a squirrel in the left hip with a 22/19 and a field tip, it exited the right shoulder penetrated to the feathers, the squirrel still ran off with my arrow and had to be ran down and beat over the head. I am older and wiser now, I still love to squirrel hunt with my bow but I don't shoot game with field tips or blowguns.
> 
> Squirrels are suckers for a snare pole, if we are talking fantasy survival that is the way I would go, without poison blowguns are worthless on anything larger than an English Sparrow. Chris


I was unaware locust wood being used, always thought of it as bow wood. I guess that's because I've only seen it at a primitive gathering being used as such. Nifty wood that. You made only the dart from locust or the gun as well? I admit not killing anything with my cane gun, I'm surprised it didn't work too well. I also didn't know NC squirrels had feathers!

There are guys on the blowgun forum that would likely beg to differ. I don't carry a blowgun simply because they are cumbersome considering their seemingly rather limited value, at least IMO. A take down could be possible but seems mickey mouse to me.

The snare pole is likely the easiest possible way on earth to bag a squirrel. I'd recommend monel wire for your snares on this, 40' test.


----------



## August West

Bruno, not many people catch the August West screen name and I do love my burgundy wine.

Joel, only the dart was made from locust, split off a splinter then scrape it down to final size with your knife. Locust splits well and is really hard, I fire hardened the tip and could sink one a pretty good distance into the oak tree in my front yard. I used cotton on the back to seal it in the blow gun tube, I think originally milk weed or cat tail fluff was used but I'm not sure.

As far as the blowgun forum guys disagreeing, I'm willing to learn. I have killed a few squirrels with a blowgun but have had way to many wounded to call it a good weapon to squirrel hunt with. Chris


----------



## mr.joel

Well, I believe cotton was native to the area. However I have heard of many different materials in lieu of, including thistle fluff, though it seems like awfully short stands to work with. The blowgun has potential, I think. We just don't understand it as well as we could...but that's only speculation. There are some seemingly serious hunters on their forum, there must be something to it.


----------



## August West

Joel, PM me the name of the blowgun forum, I'd like to check it out.


----------



## Viper010

some of you seem to think gathering a little knowledge n some essential materials to be able to live off the land autonomously as paranoid... 
ah well... to each his opinion....

but i heard a nice quote in sum movie a couple of weeks ago... it ran like this:

"paranoia is a skill. its the secret to longeavity."

just another ignorent joe's opinion i guess....


----------



## Bruno529

Viper010 said:


> some of you seem to think gathering a little knowledge n some essential materials to be able to live off the land autonomously as paranoid...
> ah well... to each his opinion....
> 
> "paranoia is a skill. its the secret to longeavity."
> 
> just another ignorent joe's opinion i guess....


I am not paranoid, I just have a heightened sense of awareness !! D:=


----------



## inkspot

bikermikearchery said:


> I do not worry about defense ... I would worry about getting food, water and shelter.
> 
> I do not understand why folks think about packing slingshot ammo, when stones are found just about everywhere.
> 
> On the topic of candybars, a slingshot will feed me far longer than a candy bar. Give me a good knife (preferably two), fire making equipment, hooks, fishing line, snare wire, a slingshot with spare bands, perhaps some water purification tabs or iodine, a small pot, and the knowledge of how to use it all.
> 
> But that is just my view ....
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


Very Good statement. Well put.
Simple rule of 3's
For most people, in good health and under reasonable circumstance, you can survive.
3 minutes with out air.
3 hours with out protection from the elements/Shelter
3 Days with out water
3 weeks with out food.
Tag to the rule of 3's (every thing on your survival kit should have 3 uses)
Purpose of the rule of 3's is to prioritize your survival training and kits.
#1 keep your lungs and heart healthy
#2 Shelter making and Fire making should be on the top of your training for out door skills.
#3 Water is necessary for regulating your body's core temperature and metabolizing energy. 33% of Earths land mass is desert, A good chunk of what's left is arid land. (71% of the earth surface is salt water) It is estimated that 90 % of the fresh water in the world is contaminated with giardia and salmonella. All of this means that Finding and purifying water is of the highest priority.
#4 Food. Not that this is less important, Its just that shelter from the elements and water are urgent concerns, where as food is a long team concern. With room to debate the subject, Survival is usually the first 24 hours.
Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
1, can procure small game.
2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
4, bands used an lashing
5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)
[/quote]Slingshots, knives, pots,fire sticks,bick lighter,snares,cordage,tarps,firearms ete.etc.etc are tools But the greastest tools of all are knowledge and the abilty to use that knowledge effectly to survive any given situation one finds oneself in.Charles and BikerMikes comments are ecellent and good advice to follow, the only thing I would add is with the equiment that one has train train train,test test test than train and test some more and enjoy the comfort and joy that those skill bring you.Just my opion.


----------



## NightKnight

bikermikearchery said:


> Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
> 1, can procure small game.
> 2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
> 3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
> 4, bands used an lashing
> 5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
> 6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)


You know, someone should make a survival slingshot that is designed to help with the things you listed. Very clever.


----------



## strikewzen

probably not tourniquets... hmm

oops you meant the superficial tourniquets for IV, my bad,edited


----------



## LohnDawg

AaronC said:


> Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
> 1, can procure small game.
> 2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
> 3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
> 4, bands used an lashing
> 5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
> 6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)


You know, someone should make a survival slingshot that is designed to help with the things you listed. Very clever.
[/quote]

Sounds like a new contest challenge!

-Dawg


----------



## August West

Viper010 said:


> some of you seem to think gathering a little knowledge n some essential materials to be able to live off the land autonomously as paranoid...
> ah well... to each his opinion....
> 
> but i heard a nice quote in sum movie a couple of weeks ago... it ran like this:
> 
> "paranoia is a skill. its the secret to longeavity."
> 
> just another ignorent joe's opinion i guess....


I don't think it is paranoid just misguided, there is not enough land left to live off of without a serious extinction of mankind.

If you guys are seriously interested in survival, I suggest you start other places besides learning how to kill animals. Like how can we reduce the population of the earth, how can you use less energy, how much of my food can I grow myself and many more questions. Looking at the big picture, wild edibles is a fun hobby but not very practical.

I also don't believe there is any hope, this fossil fuel bubble we are setting on is going to pop any day, especially with people driving v8 cars and full size pickups just to be "cool", so I am paranoid and fatalistic. Chris

http://www.fromthewi...eating_oil.html


----------



## mr.joel

AaronC said:


> Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
> 1, can procure small game.
> 2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
> 3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
> 4, bands used an lashing
> 5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
> 6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)


You know, someone should make a survival slingshot that is designed to help with the things you listed. Very clever.
[/quote]
1. A matter of bands and a pouch for stones
2. Tourniquets can and have been used successfully
3. Longer than a slingshot band required and likely will ruin it as a slingshot band material-you might get away with using a bandset itself for snaring a squirrel, but why? You ruined your bands for a single meal. Traps are not 100% either, you should count on setting a dozen if possible.
4. Any band can do that in some capacity, again you will ruin your bands if you can accept that
5. I have suggested this before, likely the most applicable of the aforementioned
6. Seems any G10 or metal slingshot could do that save a rucky ling (Dankung Lucky Ring). I guess you could optimize it with a mini trowel on the bottom but wouldn't it be rather pokey?


----------



## Jakerock

Some beautiful opinions here!


----------



## August West

As scary as this might be I agree with Joel all the way, I would not disable a functional slingshot for any reason I can think of besides using the tubes for reaching water in a seep or spring, everything else in the list natural items are available and in most cases work better. Chris


----------



## mr.joel

August West said:


> some of you seem to think gathering a little knowledge n some essential materials to be able to live off the land autonomously as paranoid...
> ah well... to each his opinion....
> 
> but i heard a nice quote in sum movie a couple of weeks ago... it ran like this:
> 
> "paranoia is a skill. its the secret to longeavity."
> 
> just another ignorent joe's opinion i guess....


wild edibles is a fun hobby but not very practical.
[/quote]
Unless you live in a tropical rainforest or jungle, you ARE going to eat meat as a hunter gatherer. Even if you do live in one of these environments, you will find protein very hard to obtain without it. I would agree on some form of horticulture as a long term solution.

I have said it for years, the no. 1 environmental problem in the world is overpopulation. Take that away, and all the others follow. Unfortunately this is totally ignored in favor of impotent Kyoto Agreements and the like as this realization would entail everyone's personal responsibility which humankind is a Jedi master of shirking.

"These aren't the irresponsible parents you're looking for."


----------



## mr.joel

August West said:


> As scary as this might be I agree with Joel all the way, I would not disable a functional slingshot for any reason I can think of besides using the tubes for reaching water in a seep or spring, everything else in the list natural items are available and in most cases work better. Chris


We seem to agree on quite a lot, the rest being healthy debate and conjecture. I like having people around who disagree with me, it keeps me thinking and my mind open. How would you learn anything if everyone concurred with your every thought?


----------



## August West

Yeah, I can't use that crack too much, or really anymore, we actually agree on more than not. Oh and BTW, yes I am a deadhead and some might consider a little bit of a hippy, that does not mean I am a pacifist, liberal or vegetarian, I just loaded up the dehydrator with a bunch of deer meat and will be in GA week after next hunting pigs. I just think that if the SHTF for real, on the east coast at least, you will have to bring your own tree to stand behind at your favorite bug out spot. Even out west natural resources will run out super quick. Chris


----------



## mr.joel

No ****? I was on tour with them in '95. I am unboxable though, I don't fit into any category. I've had a high and tight as well as hair down to my kiester.


----------



## Bruno529

Freaks!!! All of you D:=


----------



## LohnDawg

Bruno529 said:


> Freaks!!! All of you D:=


Keep on Truckin' !!


----------



## Jakerock

Keep on buggin.


----------



## August West

For those of you who don't know.

My name is August West 
and I love my Pearly Baker best,
more than my wine


----------



## August West

And boy has this thread drifted, sorry Jody. Chris


----------



## Jakerock

August West said:


> And boy has this thread drifted, sorry Jody. Chris


Taking acid does not impair your focus.


----------



## Bruno529

I've never actually heard 3 from the vault or that show. Hmmm. Mostly boots here....many many boots.
And hasn't the discussion taken a unscheduled turn....sorry also..


----------



## August West

Jakerock said:


> Taking acid does not impair your focus.


If you say so, I'll have to take your word for that one.

Bruno, Yeah I don't have that one either but you know as well as me that new recordings come out almost every day. Reckoning and Working Man's Dead are rarely out of my daily rotation. Chris


----------



## LohnDawg

So back on topic...

Which Dead CD do you take in your B.O.B. ???

Europe '72


----------



## August West

My IPOD with I have no idea how many hours of both live and studio and a solar charger, if I had to pick just one album I would probably take so long that the zombies would get me before I actually bugged out. LOL Chris


----------



## Bruno529

Commercial: Dick's Picks Volume 3, 5/22/77. .....but I'd probably take a boot .....7-18-1990 Deer Creek, emotional attachment, because I was there and it was swweeeeet.
So where do you guys buy your solar powered CD players?


----------



## Bruno529

August West said:


> My IPOD with I have no idea how many hours of both live and studio and a solar charger, if I had to pick just one album I would probably take so long that the zombies would get me before I actually bugged out. LOL Chris


I like that mp3 player idea









How many hours can one hold? I'm sure I'm at around 300 hrs boot.....GD....now if you add JGB and Phil and Ratdog and Furthur...then ..yes it's silly.

and If I had an ipod I'd sneak a little moe. on there.


----------



## August West

Bruno, Solar chargers are actually pretty easy to build yourself, lots and lots of plans and parts on line or even at your local radio shack. Harbor freight has some big panels, been thinking about playing around with these and some 12 volts to power an irrigation system for my garden, before Jake chimes in I only grow vegetables. Chris


----------



## strikewzen

denzel washington carries a bible and mp3 player in book of eli


----------



## Jakerock

August West said:


> Taking acid does not impair your focus.


If you say so, I'll have to take your word for that one.
[/quote]

Not really, this was a discussion about bug out bags and now it is about the Grateful Dead, which is your doing.


----------



## LohnDawg

Jakerock said:


> Taking acid does not impair your focus.


If you say so, I'll have to take your word for that one.
[/quote]

Not really, this was a discussion about bug out bags and now it is about the Grateful Dead, which is your doing.








[/quote]

Yes, but having 130 replies in 3 days has got to be a record.

GOOD TOPIC JODY !!!

-Dawg


----------



## Bruno529

I'm am intrigued by the solar power calculator. I will look into that, thank you Chris. I feel as responsible as anyone for the direction we've gone, sorry to those who are annoyed, and though it is a serious topic, I was just trying to keep it light. Bruno D:=


----------



## Jakerock

LohnDawg said:


> Yes, but having 130 replies in 3 days has got to be a record.
> 
> GOOD TOPIC JODY !!!
> 
> -Dawg


Yeah, its about "survival" Theres a lot of experts out there! LOL!


----------



## August West

Jakerock said:


> Yeah, its about "survival" Theres a lot of experts out there! LOL!


No experts I've seen, just people exchanging ideas, do you have anything to add except snide comments? Chris


----------



## Jakerock

Ouch. Sorry I will shut up!


----------



## August West

Jakerock said:


> Not really, this was a discussion about bug out bags and now it is about the Grateful Dead, which is your doing.


Which I acknowledged and apologized for, what's your point?


----------



## NightKnight

Let's keep it fun guys.


----------



## August West

Sorry guys now back on to BOBs, my next endeavor is short wave hand helds. I have to get my HAM license but some of the really small models are amazing and could be invaulable in the back woods. Yeasu VX-7R is what I am looking at right now think I am going to take the plunge. Any HAM operators out there? Chris

http://www.eham.net/reviews/detail/2350%3Fehamsid%3D97004d4c5d91461bf77d37653a4dcf39


----------



## mr.joel

Is anybody really annoyed? So what if it drifted, unless somebody wants to go back on topic, which it well might depending on our mood.


----------



## mr.joel

I have no idea how to use those. Is it true you don't need a license anymore?


----------



## August West

Depends on the frequencies and power levels that you transmit at, of course you don't need any licensing to recieve, the Yeasu I posted you do need a license to operate. I got interested in short wave while I was on active duty, with the right antenna they are amazing. We had a net that reached from northern Iraq to the horn of Africa with no repeaters, just Harris PRC 150s with dual dipole antennas, I have talked from Ft Huachuca AZ to Ft Drum NY. Chris


----------



## mr.joel

What does getting a license entail? A friggin' two way radio is illegal here in Saudi.


----------



## August West

Not sure I am just doing the research now. I know there is a fee and you have to take a test, pretty sure that's about it. For the GMRS band radios, you just have to pay 75 bucks for a license which really seems like a racket to me.


----------



## mr.joel

Good God, what a gyp! Never mind, keep the dang thing! It's the same with cell phones: only in the US do you have to get a 2 year contract and pay at least $50 a month unless you get the 711 ghetto phone and pay more than you would with Verizon. Everywhere else you just buy a SIM card for like 5 bucks and you pay as you go, and for MUCH less, I bet I average about $7 a month. No contract, application, credit check, or any of that control freak nonsense.


----------



## Bruno529

August West said:


> Not sure I am just doing the research now. I know there is a fee and you have to take a test, pretty sure that's about it. For the GMRS band radios, you just have to pay 75 bucks for a license which really seems like a racket to me.


We got two ways where I used to work and it seems there are some public frequencies on GMRS that don't require a license. Not sure though. Our two ways were bought at Wally World but there were certain frequencies that required us to get a license and some didn't..on the same radios.	They had GMRS and another set, if I remember correctly some frequencies were on both groups and those were the GMRS that didn't need a license. Of course now that I think about it the license was dependent on signal output...and these radios could do short and longer range. Lots of help aren't I.


----------



## bikermikearchery

mr.joel said:


> Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
> 1, can procure small game.
> 2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
> 3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
> 4, bands used an lashing
> 5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
> 6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)


You know, someone should make a survival slingshot that is designed to help with the things you listed. Very clever.
[/quote]
1. A matter of bands and a pouch for stones
2. Tourniquets can and have been used successfully
3. Longer than a slingshot band required and likely will ruin it as a slingshot band material-you might get away with using a bandset itself for snaring a squirrel, but why? You ruined your bands for a single meal. Traps are not 100% either, you should count on setting a dozen if possible.
4. Any band can do that in some capacity, again you will ruin your bands if you can accept that
5. I have suggested this before, likely the most applicable of the aforementioned
6. Seems any G10 or metal slingshot could do that save a rucky ling (Dankung Lucky Ring). I guess you could optimize it with a mini trowel on the bottom but wouldn't it be rather pokey?
[/quote]

now hear is why I seldom post more than a 3 word comment on a forum.
My list was suggestions. Things that have worked for me and my students.


----------



## bikermikearchery

My preferred woods roaming kit. All items made by me. Cant realy call it a BOB.


----------



## NightKnight

Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean you shouldn't post it. I, for one, was glad you posted that. You had some valid uses for adding a slingshot. Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean that everyone does.


----------



## Jakerock

bikermikearchery said:


> My preferred woods roaming kit. All items made by me. Cant realy call it a BOB.


Heh... thats the real deal! (IMHO) Awesome.


----------



## Imperial

this thread is still going !? ill bet this thread has already outlasted any b.o.b. any one on here has .


----------



## mr.joel

bikermikearchery said:


> Bringing this back to the subject of Slingshots in a B.O.B. or survival kit. I keep one in mine. I have more than 3 uses for it so it is justified in my kit.
> 1, can procure small game.
> 2, bands can be used as compression dressings and tourniquet
> 3, bands can be used an engine for spring traps.
> 4, bands used an lashing
> 5, Fork used as pressure block in bow& drill
> 6, Fork used as digging tool. (my Frame is metal)


You know, someone should make a survival slingshot that is designed to help with the things you listed. Very clever.
[/quote]
1. A matter of bands and a pouch for stones
2. Tourniquets can and have been used successfully
3. Longer than a slingshot band required and likely will ruin it as a slingshot band material-you might get away with using a bandset itself for snaring a squirrel, but why? You ruined your bands for a single meal. Traps are not 100% either, you should count on setting a dozen if possible.
4. Any band can do that in some capacity, again you will ruin your bands if you can accept that
5. I have suggested this before, likely the most applicable of the aforementioned
6. Seems any G10 or metal slingshot could do that save a rucky ling (Dankung Lucky Ring). I guess you could optimize it with a mini trowel on the bottom but wouldn't it be rather pokey?
[/quote]

now hear is why I seldom post more than a 3 word comment on a forum.
My list was suggestions. Things that have worked for me and my students.
[/quote]
That's just ridiculous. I did not mean it personally, it was just the way I see it. I did not mean to say your ideas are all messed up, it's just that I would choose different utilitarian functions. Notice I did not totally disagree with everything. Tourniquets and a divot for a bow drill socket aren't bad ideas.

The idea of a contest isn't a bad one either. I would suggest it would be design on paper only so that the ideas_ could_ be as crazy as possible. Creating truly functional _and_ unique multi function outdoor tools is not so easy. In our eccentricity we may actually discover something valuable. Perhaps later have a serious one that applied what we learned from the previous contest.


----------



## jodymikazule

****... Im just tryin to catch up. You boys bicker like a bunch of old bitties! Its kinda cute







Lol. JK. Say whatcha will! Hey, Im learnin stuff here! * Quick note and its back to work... I think you still have to have a license for a H.A.M call sign. One of my fellow paranoid zombie hunter friends has a sweet lil hand held and is getting ready to take her test. She got hers for $120.00. Ill check into the model. As far as TEOTWAWKI and being prepared with a BOB and a catty on my hip... it may not be the most leathal choice, but really outside of a blade, its all I have. Im a health care provider & far from rich. Gotta hone the skills I can with the means I have to do so at the time the advantage (and advice) presents itself... and so far, so good! This site, you Gentlmen, have opened my eyes to soo many other possibilities! Soooo... Your stuck with me and my sometimes annoying topics. Next up... where to put a Cat holster when your wearing a dress... lol.


----------



## Hrawk

jodymikazule said:


> Next up... where to put a Cat holster when your wearing a dress... lol.


----------



## mr.joel

It is said that 70% of human communication is done with body language. The lack thereof in forums I think is why people take things out of context and get the wrong idea- it's certainly happened to me.

As far as a HAM goes, I'm not taking a test (that you surely will have to pay for) and won't buy a license. I'll adapt and find an alternative....I'll use friggin' smoke signals first! I believe that technology has long since been paid for, likely by our tax dollars to begin with and see no justification to pay again, simple as.

Your gong to wear a dress after SHTF?


----------



## Imperial

jodymikazule said:


> Next up... where to put a Cat holster when your wearing a dress... lol.


why bother wearing the dress ?


----------



## jodymikazule

Hey, Ive always been a punk rock girl! I can pull off a sassy dress with a pair of combat boots & fishnets! I cetainly cant run from zombies in stilettos! Though they could be considered another weapon, I guess. Lol. And as far as going w/o a dress altogether???? What kinda apocolyptic world would it be without fashion???


----------



## August West

mr.joel said:


> As far as a HAM goes, I'm not taking a test (that you surely will have to pay for) and won't buy a license. I'll adapt and find an alternative....I'll use friggin' smoke signals first! I believe that technology has long since been paid for, likely by our tax dollars to begin with and see no justification to pay again, simple as.


It has to be licensed and controlled, no way around it. If not, whoever has the most money to buy the biggest transmitter would own the air. Cell phones, WIFI, TV remotes and every other wireless technology you can think of would be a thing of the past all the freqs would be so jammed airplanes would probably fall out of the sky and cops would have to rely on bicycle messengers. I was a D9 Frequency controller for a while in the Army, believe me testing and licensing is a good thing. When we first went into Iraq was the first time I ever saw it where it was truly every man for himself, we managed our own Freqs but couldn't worry less about the Iraqis of course. I ran some power on some of our backbone Tropo systems that would knock birds out of the air. LOL Chris


----------



## mr.joel

Hmmm. Couldn't I just get the license and still do the same? I don't see how a test and a fee would prevent any of that?


----------



## August West

Sure you could, but by that rational why have driver's tests or licensing, or for that matter, any sort of licensing for anything. When you get a ham license it is for a specific freq range that you are registering for. My point is that freq ranges and power levels have to be monitored and controlled and my transmitter has to be registered or real damage can be done, it is not a minor thing when you scramble the nav system on an L-1011. Chris

EDIT: And yes it really is that easy, which is kind of scary. With simple equipment you can wreak havoc with police, fire and rescue radios and tons of others. I have personally had cops show up at my field site and tell me to turn my transmitter off or go to jail.


----------



## mr.joel

OK, charge a flat $10 to register my frequency to facilitate finding me if get crazy with it. That is how it works right? $75 seems outrageous just to tell you who and where my radio is. How much is the test? I bet it's at least the same.

Is the $75 a one time fee, or annual?


----------



## August West

75 buck one time fee but that is just for GMRS.

Like I said I am new to HAM stuff so I have been researchng as we talk, ham licenses are free but there is a 14 dollar test fee. They are only good for 10 years but that is important as well, technology changes as well as laws.

Joel, lots of people run outlaw, and if you are talking about running a few extra watts on your CB or using GMRS, big deal. If you are talking about some of the HAM freqs it can cause serious problems, people need to be educated and know what they are doing before going on the air.


----------



## mr.joel

$14 seems reasonable.


----------



## August West

Well alrighty then, GMRS licenses are only good for 5 years and cost 85 bucks. With all the GMRS radios they sell at walmart, Dick's and every other box store, how many poeple out there do you think are licensed? I have a short wave reciever now and am going to take my test soon so I can start transmitting. Maybe it is more of a hobby than anything but a walkie talkie size device with that much capability is cool to me, however I am an old signaleer. Chris


----------



## harpersgrace

I'll just stick to my CB seems alot less trouble and I don't know anyone in Guam to talk to any way.....


----------



## harpersgrace

jodymikazule said:


> As far as TEOTWAWKI and being prepared with a BOB and a catty on my hip... it may not be the most leathal choice,... Your stuck with me and my sometimes annoying topics. Next up... where to put a Cat holster when your wearing a dress... lol.


Hey just because it's the end of the world there's no reason not to feel pretty. Just tuck it in your cleavage.... Adds the element of surprise, while the guys staring at your assets you'll be able to get at least one shot off...


----------



## mr.joel

harpersgrace said:


> As far as TEOTWAWKI and being prepared with a BOB and a catty on my hip... it may not be the most leathal choice,... Your stuck with me and my sometimes annoying topics. Next up... where to put a Cat holster when your wearing a dress... lol.


Hey just because it's the end of the world there's no reason not to feel pretty. Just tuck it in your cleavage.... Adds the element of surprise, while the guys staring at your assets you'll be able to get at least one shot off...
[/quote]
Naaaah, save that for shurikens.


----------



## bikermikearchery

I can usually work out most anachronism but what is this? TEOTWAWKI


----------



## LohnDawg

bikermikearchery said:


> I can usually work out most anachronism but what is this?	TEOTWAWKI


The End Of The World As We Know It.

Unfortunately to many people stop reading after the first five words when it's the last four that we should be paying attention to.


----------



## mr.joel

Frankly I'm looking forward to it if there is such a thing. I often think this is a fantasy perpetuated by the lower classes of our society to give an imagined sense of forthcoming power that is in reality unobtainable.


----------



## Bruno529

What would you pack in a B.O.B. for an alien invasion? I'm including a ss. They may laugh so hard they'd lose focus and I'd get away.


----------



## Btoon84

A copy of E.T. and def some candy


----------



## bikermikearchery

LohnDawg said:


> I can usually work out most anachronism but what is this?	TEOTWAWKI


The End Of The World As We Know It.

Unfortunately to many people stop reading after the first five words when it's the last four that we should be paying attention to.
[/quote]
OOhhhh
The world as I knew it ended just a bit over 3 years ago. least thats when I started making a better kit to excape the zombie hords or what ever.


----------



## jodymikazule

Hmmm... if the Aliens did return to get their ship from Area 51, Id bet theyd be mad. So, Id defiantly stuff some 'relaxing' brownies in my BOB with a copy of "Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus" Lol


----------



## Imperial

theres a lot of illegal aliens walking around where im at .


----------



## Kipken

mr.joel said:


> Really just wanted to know if a slingshot could cause serious 'stopping' injury. Mostly say not. Unless your stopping a critter.


 No, it certainly could cause serious injury to a human. Watch Joerg Sprave shoot 16mm lead with an ungody amount of rubber behind it, surely it could kill. It just would not be my first choice in that role. Using the slingshots at the power levels most of us use, then I would say not.

However, Joerg is a huge dude, can you realistically and repeatedly make hits with this kind of setup? How about when you are hungry and exhausted?
[/quote]

Come on guys get real... You don't have to be Joerg size or use huge bands to inflict serious damage with a slingshot.. I shoot thru soup cans, not thin pop cans with loop tubes from Tex... Bill Hayes has a video on youtube shooting thru 5 pop cans and a plastic jug filled with water with a TBG set up... Do you really think your skin and bones are that tough...? A head shot with .5in steel or 44 cal lead will probably kill you.. if it doesn't penitrate your skull then it will shatter a piece of skull into your brain...and if you try to deflect with your arms it will probably break your arm or hand... Its not my first choice of weapon, but it will inflict major damage...
Kip


----------



## mr.joel

Shooting through cans or jugs filled with water is easier than when they are empty. This is true even if you put stones in them to weigh them down in place. I do not know why this is, only that it is.

While you do not absolutely need super ferstout gorilla bands necessarily to make a human kill (and this of course is a guess), a human would in my mind would be the far end of the spectrum of possible prey. Humans also being the most dangerous animal on earth, I would want a guaranteed kill or disabling shot on the first try and so I would want as much power as possible in that given role.

Jody, I would look into using chained red #32 crepe rubber bands for your BOB, I've used the #64s with success, the former is said to be better. They seem very partial to stones and more durable than the flats. They can be replaced or repaired easily as long as you keep a supply of them, and storing small rubber bands is easier than flats or tubes as you have to baby the stuff and store it properly or it will be compromised. You could simply carry a tin with rubber bands to augment/replace/repair your band sets. You could also just use the #110 big rubber bands which you can find at any office supply store, a cheap and dirty solution, but it does get the job done. Gum rubber also is a good choice if cold weather is a possibility, I don't know this as fact but Flatband has said this and he has probably made more bands than all of us put together. Make a pouch that is larger than normal for use with stones.

Thanks for all the "likes," my e-reputation went from "neutral" to "excellent," not sure how that is calculated?

http://i1115.photobu...e_/CIMG0523.jpg

http://i1115.photobu...mwithchains.jpg


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## strikewzen

mr.joel said:


> Shooting through cans or jugs filled with water is easier than when they are empty. I do not know why this is, only that it is.


i guess it's because the water holds the container in place, weights it down and also there is tension to support the walls upon impact, lessening the "give" before penetration


----------



## Kipken

I totally agree Joel, I was just saying slingshots are dangerous, deadly weapons... I have seen people survive horrible car crashes unharmed, and others slip and fall in the bathtub and die.. I personally had a friend who was crawling under a floor to fix some wireing, he was kinda twisting his body, and sneezed, it ruptured discs in his back and made him perminately disabled... The Human body is a very reselient thing, it also has some very vulnerable areas...
Kip


----------



## mr.joel

strikewzen said:


> Shooting through cans or jugs filled with water is easier than when they are empty. I do not know why this is, only that it is.


i guess it's because the water holds the container in place, weights it down and also there is tension to support the walls upon impact, lessening the "give" before penetration
[/quote] No, this isn't true either. Joerg has written a lot about this phenomenon, and I have also experienced it.


----------



## August West

Jody is there a reason why a firearm is not an option? Chris


----------



## mr.joel

August West said:


> Jody is there a reason why a firearm is not an option? Chris


Yeah, really! That little Henry AR-7 looks like a dandy choice and would extend your effective range exponentially.


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## strikewzen

or a katana... my dream weapon


----------



## mr.joel

strikewzen said:


> or a katana... my dream weapon


Which would decrease your effective range exponentially







.


----------



## August West

I've always thought a katana would be a great zombie killing weapon, next to a shotgun of course. Chris


----------



## strikewzen

range? NINJA smoke!!!


----------



## mr.joel

I'm more of a spata kind of guy.


----------



## strikewzen

i watch too much first blood and think jungle war is about stealth haha


----------



## mr.joel

It is until you light 'em up! Get some!

Conversely, stones have fooled me at night tossed in the opposite direction by the party being pursued. Naturally, I followed the noise thinking they were there. I totally lost their trail, worked like a charm, I was taken to school on that one. Certainly a slingshot would work for this. Often averting a fight in the first place is the better choice, especially tout soul.


----------



## mr.joel

strikewzen said:


> range? NINJA smoke!!!


"Yeah, right...and monkeys might fly outta my butt!" Mike Myers as Wayne Campbell in "Wayne's World."







GTFOH!


----------



## bikermikearchery

Just some stuff I'm playing with. One I made with a compass bilt in, a snap in slingbow attachment, and a 3 piece takedown arrow. Havent gotten around to fleching the arrow yet, There is room in the handle for a drilled out compartment that could hold a ferro rod or matches.


----------



## harpersgrace

mr.joel said:


> I'm more of a spata kind of guy.


Spatha is a Good choice although I would prefer a gladius or my personal favorite a katzbalger. Katana are highly over rated as a close quarters weapon and is in fact a pretty high maintenance. In order to get the best out of the edge it needs fairly constant touch up by someone who knows the art of sword polishing. If you really want a long sword I'ld go with a claymore.


----------



## August West

Yeah I'm not really a katana kinda guy but I still think they are sexy as ****. I'm more of a smash and slash sort, maybe a razor honed bush axe would be more my speed. LOL Chris


----------



## strikewzen

harpersgrace said:


> Katana are highly over rated as a close quarters weapon


omg i just busted a nut


----------



## harpersgrace

I hope you're alright,
Kats are great swords and fine for individual combat or duels but were never a primary weapon of war. The Samurai prefered the Yari and Yumi or even the Tetsubo for battle and melee saving the Katana for maters of honor...of course that's only what I have learned from studying swords for the last 30 yrs or so...and I do have to admit I have focused on the weapons of Northern Europe so I could be in error..but in a fight that could be in urban, woodland, or a close area I would choose a short heavy blade to a long sword any day of the week...


----------



## jodymikazule

August... money. Trying to save for a 9mm when I drive a POS 92' Ford Tempo seems kinda silly atm. But I do drool over them at the Gun Shows all the time. Plus... well... I guess Ima purist in the sence, I want to be able to feel secure about basic & simple weapons, I can gather from my environment. As someone commented earlier... knowledge & skill is weightless & cant be taken from you. More I can stuff in my head and pulse out through my hands... the better! Though a sweet 9mm Rugger is on my high cost list for sure! Ammo isnt cheap either... and like fuel, has been inching up & up. So far marbles & steel balls arent to awefully expensive and its reusable. Im Alllllll about thrifty!


----------



## August West

HMMMM, I wonder who said that about knowledge. LOL

A 22 is not to awfully expensive and ammo is still relatively cheap compared to centerfires. A 22 is not a great defensive weapon but it beats a slingshot all to pieces and is maybe the best foraging tool period. I respect your quest for knowledge but a good 22 and a couple of bricks of ammo are worth their weight in platinum in a true SHTF situation. Chris


----------



## Jakerock

Theres no way I am trudging back through this thread...
RE: Jody's last post....
I imagine that someone had mentioned slingbow and regular archery as far as stuff that is skill building and doesnt take any manufactured materials? (But a fair amount of skill)


----------



## pop shot

August West said:


> HMMMM, I wonder who said that about knowledge. LOL
> 
> A 22 is not to awfully expensive and ammo is still relatively cheap compared to centerfires. A 22 is not a great defensive weapon but it beats a slingshot all to pieces and is maybe the best foraging tool period. I respect your quest for knowledge but a good 22 and a couple of bricks of ammo are worth their weight in platinum in a true SHTF situation. Chris


That's one of the most beneficial statements of this whole thread


----------



## mr.joel

In theory I would agree with you on wanting a weapon that would not require storebought anything. Unfortunately this philosophy stops butt cold when we are talking about the possibility of a confrontation with humans.

Historically the native Americans would certainly agree, that is with the exception of the Apache until the advent of repeating firearms and imminently encroaching "civilization." The Spanish couldn't give them away to them. They tried this in an attempt to addict them to storebought items, apparently the Apache were on to this and for the most part rejected them. I believe the Shawnee also resisted using firearms favoring their skill with a bow. The Dakota were a Great Lakes forest people until their enemies the Chippewas ran them out onto the plains around 1730 as they had easy access to guns whereas the Dakota did not. The small pox epidemics of the then powerful Missouri river tribes enabled their western expansion or they may well have been exterminated. Somehow their name changed to Lakota as they became a plains people. Sioux is a bastardized French word, it's meaning is unclear and debated. Their dynamic of warfare was quite different than the much more solitary Apaches, however. After they could readily access firearms, they became the powerful nation we all know of today. Due to their new access to horses through trading with the Cheyenne and shortly later firearms they were one of the few tribes that actually doubled in size until their defeat in The Great Sioux War in 1877, and further reducing their population later by the corrupt faux pas of the State Department during the early reservation period.

A .22 at range isn't the ideal weapon, but the ammo is cheap as noted and can be an incredible fight stopper at shorter ranges. The bullets have been documented to bounce all over the anatomy, although these results are sporadic and therefore unreliable. It's price, ability to take game medium and small, and the fact that it can be a serviceable if not ideal combat weapon make it a perfect choice for you.

Ruger 9mm? If you have little or no experience with firearms, I'd go with a long gun, easier learning curve. If I were in the market for a 9, I'd pick the Walther PPK or a Glock.

Yes, a pole arm is more effective in manual combat when you are fighting as a unit. It's a bit slow to employ by yourself against multiple attackers, however. A lighter short pole arm (6 ft or less and less is better) is better than a long one if fighting alone. I used to play a battle game called Amtgard where foam padded weapons of all sorts are employed, I was a weapon maker as well. Not the same as the real thing, but certain attributes stay the same, this being one of them.


----------



## Btoon84

a lot to take in here. just read through this post........







........ Some interesting thoughts/ideas here. some: )


----------



## mr.joel

Take what you like, leave the rest.


----------



## mr.joel

bikermikearchery said:


> Just some stuff I'm playing with. One I made with a compass bilt in, a snap in slingbow attachment, and a 3 piece takedown arrow. Havent gotten around to fleching the arrow yet, There is room in the handle for a drilled out compartment that could hold a ferro rod or matches.


 Perhaps a bit of copper on the end of the handle or cap for flint knapping? Less pokey than a trowel.


----------



## treefork

mr.joel said:


> Take what you like, leave the rest.


Sounds like you may be know Bill W..


----------



## mr.joel

S


treefork said:


> Take what you like, leave the rest.


Sounds like you may be know Bill W..
[/quote] I really don't know who you mean? Could you narrow it down some?


----------



## Jakerock

Bill Wilson


----------



## mr.joel

Jakerock said:


> Bill Wilson


You mean Dayhiker? Or...


----------



## Jakerock

You will know the real bill in 12 steps.


----------



## mr.joel

Ahh, that's where you lost me...alcoholics go to meetings whereas I'm a drunk, I go to a bar. I only pay attention to such people when the courts force me to, and even then as little as possible and soon to be forgotten.


----------



## bikermikearchery

next addition at my bob slingshot. This one has a light, slingbow attachment, compass. works out handy for frog gigin.


----------



## treefork

bikermikearchery said:


> next addition at my bob slingshot. This one has a light, slingbow attachment, compass. works out handy for frog gigin.


That's a really cool sling shot design.I like the shape of the handle and forks.That would be a nice shared pdf.


----------



## mr.joel

The frog gig is a good idea...you just need a frog gig! Did you make the whisker biscuit out of toothbrushes? Is it removable?


----------



## mr.joel

I think an interesting facet of this that has not been addressed is band storage. Surely you would need extra bands or material to make such, especially if one is using flatbands. Storage of said items would be critical to their longevity in storage. One such method I have heard of is a vacuum sealed bag like a Eurosealer. Another mentioned by Tex is medication bottles that are UV protected.


----------



## bikermikearchery

mr.joel said:


> The frog gig is a good idea...you just need a frog gig! Did you make the whisker biscuit out of toothbrushes? Is it removable?


I shoot the frogs with a field tip arrow. Most places I have been we still call it gigging. The capture arrow rest is made to just snap into place.


----------



## bikermikearchery

mr.joel said:


> I think an interesting facet of this that has not been addressed is band storage. Surely you would need extra bands or material to make such, especially if one is using flatbands. Storage of said items would be critical to their longevity in storage. One such method I have heard of is a vacuum sealed bag like a Eurosealer. Another mentioned by Tex is medication bottles that are UV protected.


My testing has shown that I avarage 1000 shots from a set of flat bands, then after a repare another 200 or so. I get 3000+ shots from tubes. Chained rubber bands only avarage 150 shots befor a repare needs be made. Flat bands sealed in a regular zip-lock bag and kept out of the light have lasted 4+ years, and still counting. These are stored in my field kit.
I haven't quit on chained rubber bands yet. Even though they are the first to fail they are so easy to make, easy to repare, and cheep. The rubber bands sold at hobby shores as ammo for ruberband guns is thicher and has lasted much longer than pale creap type bands.


----------



## pop shot

treefork said:


> next addition at my bob slingshot. This one has a light, slingbow attachment, compass. works out handy for frog gigin.


That's a really cool sling shot design.I like the shape of the handle and forks.That would be a nice shared pdf.[/quote]
It's an HTS with attachments. And it looks like a perfect candidate for a bugout bag!


----------



## treefork

HTS. That's a Bill Hays creation! Imitation is the best compliment.


----------



## mr.joel

bikermikearchery said:


> My testing has shown that I avarage 1000 shots from a set of flat bands, then after a repare another 200 or so.


Does anybody else get this kind of band life? I'm lucky if I get half that length of service from a set of flats. Either I'm doing something wrong, or you have found the holy grail of elastic. Or perhaps this is an exaggeration? What setup are you using?


----------



## strikewzen

mr.joel said:


> My testing has shown that I avarage 1000 shots from a set of flat bands, then after a repare another 200 or so.


Does anybody else get this kind of band life? Either I'm doing something wrong, or you have found the holy grail of elastic. Or perhaps this is an exaggeration? What setup are you using?
[/quote]

1000 shots easy, i get well over 2000 all the time, but i use plastic ammo so probably doesn't count

how do i know it's more than 2000? because that's a bag of bbs


----------



## mr.joel

Is this straight or tapered?


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## strikewzen

about 20mm tapered down to 15mm, also i got some fastbands from ZDP, those have taper but narrowest part is not at the pouch, advanced tapering hehe and they haven't broke yet, well over 4000 on ZDPs
those are die cut with special dimensions tho

i didn't make these myself, other members made them for me


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## mr.joel

Wow, I should try slightly reducing my taper, I normally go 3:2. Perhaps my cheap charlie Chinese roll cutter(no other available here) is the culprit of my significantly shorter band life?

Fastbands are a product that seemingly will never come to market, if you were lucky enough to get some good for you. It's moot to me as it is much more difficult to buy things overseas. I can't just hit the Paypal button so I'm relegated to making my own or include them in a purchase on the odd occasion when I buy a frame, and that's only if the seller accepts Moneygram or Western Union.


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## pop shot

I think it might have to do with your tying method if you're getting less than 1000 shots


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## mr.joel

What is your method?


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## pop shot

I tie like so:


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## mr.joel

I've been using a lot of TBBlue lately which also may account for this.


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## bikermikearchery

My flat bands, Thera-Band gold 1 1/4" tapered to 1" 10 1/2 long. Tied with a strip of rubber not string. When I mount them on the forks I make the pouch to fork length 7 1/4 long. The extra band is folded at the fork. My draw length is 28" I use a multiplier of 3.9 to figure how long of active band length to leave out. 28" / 3.9 = 7.17" rounded out to 7.25" I count all shots at daily practice . Low band life has been 800+/- high has been 1300. The bands always tear at the pouch end. When they start to tear I remove them and re-tie the pouch, then adjust with the extra length that was left at the fork end.


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## mr.joel

You guys use heavier ammo too I suspect, I think this plays a role as well. I tie with TBBU.


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## pop shot

That's where it is- mikes elongation factor is 3.9 slower speed, longer life. I pull around 5-5.2


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## mr.joel

Yeah, I'm glad you can reason that out, I'm a little slow on the uptake in the math department. I also have what I think is a "high elongation factor (at least that's what my wife says)," which likely accounts for my latex breaking early...on my slingshot too!

Back to the BOB thing...Nathan's [email protected] $160. Any opinions?


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## strikewzen

even tho i'm a fixed blade kinda guy, nathan's EDC is the best EDC out there if you are into EDC

the flared handle works great even at a slim profile, and the maxim design is great overall, i can't think of a better EDC (pure slingshot that is)

jorg had a knife that turns into a ss, if you got 500 euro go for it

i personally don't mind bigger ss, they're quite small enough already


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## bikermikearchery

.44 lead or 7/16 steel. haven't measured the speed but it punches a hole in 1/2" siding.


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## Jakerock

{retracted for sarcasm}


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## mr.joel

You don't think it's utilitarian or expedient?


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## Jakerock

Sorry, was being a jerk. If I am going to be upset by everyone trying to be "right" all the time, I need to stay off the internet.


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## mr.joel

mr.joel said:


> Sorry, was being a jerk. If I am going to be upset by everyone trying to be "right" all the time, I need to stay off the internet.


Back to the BOB thing...Nathan's [email protected] $160. Any opinions?

[/quote]
I fail to see how my soliciting your opinion entails me being a know-it-all? It was a serious question. You can be as sarcastic as you like, I'm a big boy. Rest assured I put with some serious smart asses on a daily basis. You're not likely to upset me with that, just as long as you can take it in return.

You can do it any way you want to, Bubba, I'm easier than he$$ to get along with!


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## strikewzen

160 is fair, flippinout is king of ergonomics, you're also getting set of bands plus rayshot pouch

but that's if you're into EDC, (why you wanna carry a slingshot around?)


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## mr.joel

strikewzen said:


> 160 is fair, flippinout is king of ergonomics, you're also getting set of bands plus rayshot pouch
> 
> but that's if you're into EDC, (why you wanna carry a slingshot around?)


Why wouldn't you? That's the entire point of it, otherwise we'd all use starships. I take the Joker everywhere.


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## strikewzen

in a Bug out bag weight is more important than size, and having a collapsible mechanism increases weight and adds another potential hazard of failure over a stiff frame no?


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## mr.joel

Well, that depends on the strength of the mechanism. For $160, I would expect a LOT in that department, hence my posing the question. I doubt weight would be much of a factor, but some people really go crazy with the weight thing in a backpack. If that were the case, I'd omit a frame altogether and just carry bands to make one johnny-on-the-spot.


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## strikewzen

if you want to get one just get it man, can't go wrong with flippinout


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## mr.joel

Right, I just like to make informed choices as opposed to impulsive ones. He's sold a bunch already, he has them on backorder and won't be available for weeks. I was just wondering if any of you had bought one and if so what was your impression? If you're skilled with it I really think the PFS is the ultimate carry slingshot, but I like to shoot gangsta style.


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## strikewzen

in the meantime check jorg's knife/slingshot the syrvival system





enjoy chatting with ya joel


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## mr.joel

Yes, this is an interesting concept. I've always thought a fork similar to this but made so that it could be improvised and mounted onto a field expedient "long gun" stock would be cool. I actually did this once with a tubed slingshot in Alaska as the tubes weren't giving adequate reach in my regular draw. I cut a straight stick and built a "butt" by simply duct taping smaller sticks in a row underneath in that section. I mounted the storebought slingshot in front, it was butt ugly, but made meat.

Something like this that could double as a handheld and be mounted to a field expedient fork extension is what I was thinking. This Wak's from the Altoid tin build-off.


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## harpersgrace

well I dont think of it as a EDC it's just something that is always in my pocket like my knives...but this or my milbro goes in my back pocket every day... not as neat and nifty as some others but it gets it done..


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## pop shot

Especially with that dub... Love that stuff


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## Jakerock

strikewzen said:


> 160 is fair, flippinout is king of ergonomics, you're also getting set of bands plus rayshot pouch


Its worth it just for the pouch.


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## mr.joel

harpersgrace said:


> well I dont think of it as a EDC it's just something that is always in my pocket like my knives...but this or my milbro goes in my back pocket every day... not as neat and nifty as some others but it gets it done..


Yeah, I agree the name is a little much, it sounds like it is being marketed to the Mexican police. I would have called it the Romulan as it somewhat resembles their version of the bird of prey (as opposed to the Klingon) folded.


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## Danny0663

Just spent an hour or so going through 10 pages. (My back hurts now)

All i can say.... Interesting.


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## mr.joel

Danny0663 said:


> Just spent an hour or so going through 10 pages. (My back hurts now)
> 
> All i can say.... Interesting.


New Zealand...now there's a place I wouldn't mind moving to!


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## Danny0663

Sure. Just don't expect cheap food and living costs.


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## mr.joel

Danny0663 said:


> Sure. Just don't expect cheap food and living costs.


Funny I heard otherwise...I heard pay is pretty low though.


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## harpersgrace

Yeah but you have Hobbits


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## flippinout

New Zealand is where i picked up my EDC Hobbit for my bug out bag. Handy little critter them hobbits, if you can keep them off the pipeweed


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## mr.joel

flippinout said:


> New Zealand is where i picked up my EDC Hobbit for my bug out bag. Handy little critter them hobbits, if you can keep them off the pipeweed


What is that? And does he/she/it share it's pipeweed?


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## August West

Them hobbits is tricksy buggers, not sure I would keep one in my bob even if he did share his pipeweed. Chris


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## mr.joel

That would score some mileage...


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## Off-Trail

Charles said:


> I do not worry about defense ... I would worry about getting food, water and shelter.
> 
> I do not understand why folks think about packing slingshot ammo, when stones are found just about everywhere.
> 
> On the topic of candybars, a slingshot will feed me far longer than a candy bar. Give me a good knife (preferably two), fire making equipment, hooks, fishing line, snare wire, a slingshot with spare bands, perhaps some water purification tabs or iodine, a small pot, and the knowledge of how to use it all.
> 
> But that is just my view ....
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


I'm new here but I can tell we think the same way. I really like your reply and can't wait to read more of your post.


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## inkspot

Charles said:


> I do not worry about defense ... I would worry about getting food, water and shelter.
> 
> I do not understand why folks think about packing slingshot ammo, when stones are found just about everywhere.
> 
> On the topic of candybars, a slingshot will feed me far longer than a candy bar. Give me a good knife (preferably two), fire making equipment, hooks, fishing line, snare wire, a slingshot with spare bands, perhaps some water purification tabs or iodine, a small pot, and the knowledge of how to use it all.
> 
> But that is just my view ....
> 
> Cheers ....... Charles


 Hi Charles been away from the forum for awhile.Your advice is 100% right on .


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## mrpaint

strikewzen said:


> anything weaker than empty hand combat is an ineffective weapon, the only effective target to strike(imo) would be the tibia (shin bone)
> 
> but i suppose bug out bag is not used for self defense, but for survival in general, so yes with practice you can hunt small animals as demonstrated by forum members in the hunting section
> 
> for self defence carry a fixed blade in a position you are able to reach when pinned down on the ground


so right. I always wear a neck knife, and a small double edged boot dagger and they are kept razor sharp, god forbid I ever have to use them on someone, I wont hesitate though.


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