# "slingshot" Elbow



## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Noob here with less than 2k shots under my belt. I notice that if I'm shooting a lot, I get what feels like ligament pain in my forward arm elbow... kinda like tennis elbow. I'm really getting addicted to this sport, it just has that just right mix of challenge, involvement, feel, accuracy, improvement-through-practice, and low maintenance/cost. I want so shoot more, but the "slingshot" elbow thing keeps my shooting in check.

I guess my forward elbow is more or less locked when I shoot. I shoot sideways/gangsta style TTF on single straight 1" Theraband Golds. I'm completely comfortable with the draw weight and hold at full draw.

Am I doing something wrong? Is this common among beginners? Does more shooting strengthen or weaken the elbow?


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

do you intentionally extend elbow and flip your wrist at release?

and do you get pain on every shot or just some of it? if only some of it, learn from yourself on the shots that don't hurt~


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

if you do a video of your form say 10 shots, with the camera fixed on yourself not the target

people could tell you a lot more about what you're doing right and wrong, will learn faster that way

*and tell us after each shot if it hurts


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## pop shot (Sep 29, 2011)

It might be from recoil shock. Or fork death grip.


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Unfortunately, I don't have the facilities/know-how to do videos yet.

I don't really intentionally move, just natural/subtle movement from band snap/recoil, I guess I kind of try to maintain "sight picture" like you might after shooting a gun.

It's a dull pain that grows as shots go on... not really sharp as a result of taking a shot.. it think more noticeable when I'm either full extending or bending my arm after I put the slingshot down to set up a new target sheet or pick up the ammo.

Yeah, I think it might be related to recoil shock or something.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

good time to learn how to use the other arm . your probally tightening too much .


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

You might want to watch this video! -- Tex


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

LOL... well I must be some kinda weakling then. Single 1" Therabands sure ain't no Extreme Powerbands! Actually I'm in pretty decent shape for over 50 and still can do quite a few stunts and strength moves that most people half my age couldn't do.

As I mentioned above, the draw and hold weight feel quite comfortable for me, almost like a compound bow after let-off. No shaking at full draw or anything and I use a firm, but not overly tight grip on the SS.

Well, it sounds like it's only me - perhaps I've aggravated and old injury or something. Might have to try switching sides as Guerrilla has suggested... although I'm pretty weak at lefty anything.


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

take your time and analyze each factor that cause the pain and experiment with different solutions that you come up with

i have pain like this quite often, but less and less by correcting form, it hurts when i forget about form


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Try pulling back thumb down instead of up...


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

You might want to lighten up the draw weight for a while and see if your soft tissue injury heals. You don't want to develop a serious tendontis issue. More shooting, while ignoring the pain, will further aggrevate the problem.

I often use 3/4" TBG or Hygenic latex with 3/8" steel (8" bands drawn to 32"). Velocity is still about 195 fps and 20 yard plinking is not hindered by the light bands.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Strikewzen... any particular points on what constitutes good form with the forward arm?

Assume locked elbow is better than bent elbow? Should I follow through by pushing wrist forward toward target on release, or just hold steady position as I'm doing now? (I'm now thinking the issue is caused by the sudden relaxation of tension on the elbow ligament that holds the forks in place.)

Bill.... the elbow in question is my forward one holding the slingshot. Will switching my pouch grip do anything for that elbow? (I need to watch more of your videos for proper form, I think).


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Thanks Northerner, I think I might have to consider that... Doesn't feel right as I think the pull is fine, even light, as it is (I was going to try double-banding next) but I have to admit that there is just something in the release/snap/recoil that is tweaking that elbow.

Would running a longer band, at a lower stretch ratio, have a similar effect? And maybe have the benefit of greater life?


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

reppans said:


> Thanks Northerner, I think I might have to consider that... Doesn't feel right as I think the pull is fine, even light, as it is (I was going to try double-banding next) but I have to admit that there is just something in the release/snap/recoil that is tweaking that elbow.
> 
> Would running a longer band, at a lower stretch ratio, have a similar effect? And maybe have the benefit of greater life?


The injury happens at the weakest link. You may not have a problem with holding the draw weight but the sudden tendon stretch at the elbow is causing aggrevation. Lengthening your bands will reduce the draw weight. You will have to test to see what weight will allow you to shoot without punishing your elbow tendons. It will heal if you take it easy for a while.

Back when I shot recurve bows I went through a period of time where the tendons on my bow arm elbow became aggevated. I could draw a 70 pound recurve but my 47 lb target bow gave me elbow grief. It eventually healed.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

http://bowsite.com/bowsite/features/bowdoc/elbow/index.cfm


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

following forces should be considered:

1) upon release the fork is yanked back as ammo and pouch are launched forward, this create sudden increased tension on your elbow and wrist

2) as you feel the above force #1, you tense up the elbow and wrist but is now too late to compensate for it, leading to over extension which hurts the elbow

3) or, you expected force #1 and compensate prior to feeling it, but overcompensate leading to over extension

how to deal with it is to always allow enough room in your elbow to extend during release, and a proper follow through that never involves a locked elbow (by swinging the entire arm in the direction of your elbow extension)

easier said than done, you must align your wrist and elbow extension and overcompensate for force #1, while never locking either of them (knowing how much force to exert and timing is critical). if you really want i can do a private video explaining it, but i am not so qualified as others here

for now i recommend this video http://slingshotforum.com/topic/10709-flip-shooting/
i have done translation just scroll down


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

if you cant put the slingshot down, user some #84 rubber bands for your slingshot bands . seems like you may of pinched/aggravated a lil nerve without knowing it .


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## quarterinmynose (Jan 21, 2012)

I had a similar issue about the second or third bandset I replaced. the bands were not particularly strong (Tex's field bands, I believe he says around 13lbs at draw). the issue was that I made them too short. Which I suppose makes them act like some pretty strong bands. I scrapped those bands, since I had cut off the excess, and my elbow stopped bothering me pretty soon afterwards. I don't know if this is the same thing with you, but I would suggest lighter or longer bands.


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## wombat (Jun 10, 2011)

reppans said:


> LOL... well I must be some kinda weakling then. Single 1" Therabands sure ain't no Extreme Powerbands! Actually I'm in pretty decent shape for over 50 and still can do quite a few stunts and strength moves that most people half my age couldn't do.
> 
> As I mentioned above, the draw and hold weight feel quite comfortable for me, almost like a compound bow after let-off. No shaking at full draw or anything and I use a firm, but not overly tight grip on the SS.
> 
> Well, it sounds like it's only me - perhaps I've aggravated and old injury or something. Might have to try switching sides as Guerrilla has suggested... although I'm pretty weak at lefty anything.


just clarifying what bill said. he was saying that ALL you need for 'adequate' power is a 1" band setup at about 16 lbs pull, anyhing more then that was just a waste of energy.

p.s. I also noticed you were over fifty!! as fit as you might be....sh###t happens at our age!


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

3 phases of release:

phase 1, pre release, your posterior deltoid and back muscles are the foundation to your elbow and wrist extension
they will tense up first, then extend elbow, then extend your wrist, in this sequence

phase 2, release, during halfway of wrist extension, as the forks are parallel to target (imagine a boardcut as plane, viewed from side fork orientation represneted by " \ , I , and /" in relation to target

\...............................I................................/---------------> Target
(pre-release)......release.............(follow through)

during release elbow is still extending but enters follow through (phase 3) right after

phase 3, follow through, elbow and wrist are still in motion but decelerating, your goal is to allow room for both to stop gradually
if you exerted too much force in phase 1 and 2, they will lock up. the arm should swing freely in direction of extension

sorry my explanation is no good................ someone else help please~


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

You may want to try OTT (over the top).. this way you could adjust your fork a little easier.. adjusting maybe a 45o hold rather than the 90o gangsta, another advantage with OTT is you can move your forks forward more changing the "stretch of the elbow side ligaments.

This is just a guess of course,,, After reading your thread I tried different ways of holding and shooting a slingshot paying attention to how it may feel around my elbow, but of course I have pains just not in my elbows... plus you are right you want a stiff arm, but not to the point where you are locking it (locking meaning virtually trying to bend it past the point of being straight)

disclaimer: I am not a doctor, but I play one on the interwebz









LGD


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

reppans said:


> Bill.... the elbow in question is my forward one holding the slingshot. Will switching my pouch grip do anything for that elbow? (I need to watch more of your videos for proper form, I think).


No the pouch hold won't affect the forward arm... really should read all the way through better.
Personally I've never had a problem with the front arm, so what I'm going to suggest is just based on what I've seen work for other people.... and from what I've seen the very best thing you can do is use a neoprene elbow wrap to help support against the strain.
And then build yourself up over a period of time.... start with weaker bands and build up to stronger ones. Also, use a lanyard... not as a safety device but to support against the pull similar to how a wrist brace is used... like in the video below:


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

I get tennis elbow from shooting, happens fastest with my HTS, less then an hour, I think it's the spread of my grip. I'll shoot a Wingshooter Longbow Hunter for hours before it starts to bother me. Hammer grip all day no prob. Just my experience. My last homemade is the finger thumb on forks type and I made it narrow (2" fork space), seems to help me. I would try a different slingshot.


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Thank you all for the fantastic suggestions, I'm going to work on them to see what works best for me. There's a lot to try out, and I'll need to take my time since these ligaments don't seem to act like muscles and get stronger with more use.

At least there's one good thing about not being able to shoot as much as you want - it keeps the desire and anticipation at full boil!

Thanks again for all the helpful suggestions.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

This usually happens with tubes instead of flat bands. Tubes have more recoil and more unused energy that goes directly into you arm, especially if mounted "through the hole style". Single large tubes are worse than multiple small ones. I stopped shooting a bow and came back to shooting slingshots in 1998 because of tendonitis and nerve damage in my left arm. I only shoot flat bands with a 16 pound pull or less with my problems. Strong men can have this problem also. -- Tex


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

^^ Yeah, I know what you mean. Re-banded a old wristrocket with Daisy yellow tubes and the thing feels awful - heavy, short draw, with low velocity for the given effort. Almost feels like a recurve bow next to a compound (flatband).


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Where exactly do you feel the elbow pain? Is it in the inside of the elbow, the outside, or the back of elbow?

Lightgeoduck had a good suggestion regarding fork orientation. Using OTT allows you to lean the forks forward and that changes stresses on the soft tissue at the elbow. Another option is the The Wingshooter Longbow Hunter which forces you into a straight wrist position with very little flip movement after the shot.

The small Chinese tubes seem to give reasonable power from a low draw weight. Maybe some single 1745s or 1842s would keep you shooting without the pain. I only pull my flats to 11-12 lbs and have no issues yet. When I go heavier I start to feel it at my own weak link (left side of neck). Old injuries nag away.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Outside of elbow, about a 1/2 to 1" up from the very "point" of the elbow when viewed with my arm across my stomach, as if it were in a sling. Feels like a tendon or ligament nestled between/under the boner parts of that area.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

reppans said:


> Outside of elbow, about a 1/2 to 1" up from the very "point" of the elbow when viewed with my arm across my stomach, as if it were in a sling. Feels like a tendon or ligament nestled between/under the boner parts of that area.


It sounds like it might be the triceps tendon. You likely have some inflammation at the point of insertion (tendonitis). If it was me, I would try rest + ice + anti-inflammitory medication (Ibuprofen).

Cheers,
Northerner


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

Northerner said:


> Outside of elbow, about a 1/2 to 1" up from the very "point" of the elbow when viewed with my arm across my stomach, as if it were in a sling. Feels like a tendon or ligament nestled between/under the boner parts of that area.


It sounds like it might be the triceps tendon. You likely have some inflammation at the point of insertion (tendonitis). If it was me, I would try rest + ice + anti-inflammitory medication (Ibuprofen).

Cheers,
Northerner
[/quote]


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

Spudley Davenport said:


> Outside of elbow, about a 1/2 to 1" up from the very "point" of the elbow when viewed with my arm across my stomach, as if it were in a sling. Feels like a tendon or ligament nestled between/under the boner parts of that area.


It sounds like it might be the triceps tendon. You likely have some inflammation at the point of insertion (tendonitis). If it was me, I would try rest + ice + anti-inflammitory medication (Ibuprofen).

Cheers,
Northerner
[/quote]
[/quote]


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## MAV (Mar 18, 2012)

I have had carpoltunal, ulnar entrapment, and tendinitis (tennis elbow). 
The tendinitis took about a year to get rid of, now I start to feel the symptoms I back off right away. Northerner has some solid advice there.


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## reppans (May 13, 2012)

Ahh crud, rest means no shooting. F-that, need to try Imperial's suggestion - shoot lefty.


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