# Testing 1636, 1745, and 3050 Tubes with Small Ball !



## wll

First Thoughts:

Just got my Flo Green 1636 tubes in yesterday and just started to play around with them.

Right out of the box you can tell even though the tube diameter is small, this is some tough stuff, it is very snappy and wants to come back to "Ground Zero" very quickly.

I cut my loops just over 6" long active so my elongation factor is around ~535 %. The ammo most of the time will be 1/4" steel, with some 5/16" steel thrown in.

After setting them up yesterday and pulling them back, there some resistance, a more then my single 3050, which is nice shooting and not as hard to pull back as looped 2040's. It will be interest to see how it performs and how it feels to shoot when I'm in the field. I don't want a tough pulling band set to shoot 1/4" ammo ... I'm hoping for more speed then single 3050 and single 1745's, but still not be heavy to pull back for the ammo size.

This is my first trial into 1630+ tubes, so it is a bit of an adventure. Truth be known I never thought I would be using tubes this small, and now that I have them I'm happily surprised on first glance.

Testing In The Field:

It is late afternoon and the weather is in the mid 80's. The slings have been in the cooler for the road trip so we shall see.

My first shot with the looped 1636s' is with 1/4" steel at a range of 32.5 lasered yards .... it zips through that measured old broken window on a straight line, it is seriously moving quickly. I shoot another sling with light pulling yet fast single 1745's and the looped 1636's is very noticeably faster ..... I'm very happy with that .... but it does come at a small price, and that is, just like the other bigger tubes I used, it is a bit harder to pull back, not uncomfortable, maybe about what feels like almost 2/3rds the pull weight of looped 2040's. So it takes some force, but it is no deal breaker and for me very hold-able at full draw. I then shoot a little sling that I put single 1636 tubes on, this was set up just for 177cal BB's and it really zips them out with very little pull weight. I then put a 1/4" pill in the pouch and launch that, it flew well. Almost as fast as the single 1745's, but did not have chrono with me and just went with just the way it flew. I then took some shots with the 3050 single tubes and I'm very, very happy with their performance, a very nice easy pulling single tube for 1/4" and 5/16" steel that has very good speed IMHO.

I walk around my shooting area, shooting four different sling set ups, and I'm happy with all of them ..... the easy pulling single 1745's, single 3050's, the single 1636's and the looped 1636's. The looped 1636 does have much more poop for the heavier 5/16" steel and sends them out quick, a big plus for me for light pest bird hunting. To be fair the single 3050 is really no slouch when shooting 5/16" either 

The single 1636 tubes are very nice to shoot and a joy when you want to launch 177cal BB's at a fast easy pulling flat shooting clip. The looped 1636's are barn burning fast with 1/4" steel, and do very, very well with 5/16" steel. Actually the looped 1636 tubes are better suited for 5/16" steel as they are over powered I feel for the 1/4" I'm shooting.

My Take on these tubes for Small Ball ?

Well they all have a purpose, and one really is not better than the other, each one has an application, !

1636 Single Tube. - I think for light pulling target shooting this tube is tough to beat, has enough speed for back yard target with 1/4" steel and also sends 177 cal BB's out very, very well. A nice light tube set.

1745 Single Tube - this is a step up from the 1636 IMHO in that it is better suited for 1/4" and 5/16". Easy pulling yet has some poop. I would take this out on a nice walk with a pocket of 1/4" steel for sure.

3050 Single Tube - easy pulling and sends 1/4" and 5/16" very well. This single tube is a real winner in it is light pulling and zips the small ball ammo very well. If I was hiking and this was all I had for 1/4" and 5/16" I would be fine.

1636 Looped Tube - This is the powerhouse of the tubes sets I shot. It sends out 1/4" steel like a lightning bolt and 5/16" steel is right behind. I would not use this set up for target as it is to much pull weight, over and over pulling back ---- I would use it for a very fast shooting and extremely flat shooting small pest bird sling or a long range field sling, with either 1/4" or 5/16" steel. This is the set up I would carry when a light weight carry pest bird shooter is on my mind. This set up is a firecracker, especially at 535% elongation.

What would I would generally carry ? - It would be a single tubed 3050 !! ---- It is easy to pull back and is very, very fast with 1/4" steel and very quick with 5/16" steel. It is easy and smooth pulling and it just works. No, it is not as quick as looped 1636, but it is still very fast and quite a bit easier to pull back. Pic of the Luck Ring with 3050's I used and the Mini Cheapo with looped 1636's below that.



















After a day of shooting, writing and taking pics, I'm tired ;- )

I'm out a here for now.

wll


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## wll

Hoping I will be able to get out tomorrow and shoot, but I'm scheduled for a crazy day making business plans for the next two weeks. I think we are finally semi close to getting back to work. :- )

I was very impressed with the 1636 looped tubes, they sent 1/4" out at a blistering speed. I thought the 5/16" steel in these were fantastic, having great speed yet have some power (for a small ball) for stuff like Starlings. I never gave 1636 size tubes much thought, but they are not for sissy's, they can really send it. As I mentioned this looped set up is, for me, a hunting type set up. Yes I know, I would not go after any thing larger that a Starling and as far as fur, it would be a rat, and not a big sewer rat, but a regular size farm rat if ya know what I mean! I'm talking small pest only !!

The 3050 as I have said are darn good size for 5/16" and send 1/4" out super quick, but are really probably over bore for 1/4" steel ammo. For me I don't care much about hand slap as I always wear a glove. The pulling force of 3050 is just about right for me, it is pulling but it is not enough to effect my hold or accuracy, and the way I have it set up, at the end of my draw it starts to come to a stop. I have it set up over a 500% elongation factor.

Where I live there almost is no such thing as a 15 yard shot, nothing will land that close ----normally it is a 20+ yard shot, and it is safe to say 30ish yards is the norm in my neck of the woods (desert). Very, very, very rarely will a Starling land in the 20 yard vicinity and most of the time they stay close to 40 yards away.

Looking forward, like I said to going out tomorrow if possible and do some shooting. I'm loving this small ball stuff ;- )

wll


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## wll

Got a late start as was at work all day setting up a new part. got out there and there was a lady at the house with here car filled with stuff. I parked away from her and made my way to my shooting area.

It was very, very windy and the clouds covered the sky in a blanket of dark gray. i shot for a while using 3050's and they were flying good, but with the low light I could see the ammo fly just once in a while. after about 20 minutes I left.

It had been a long day, back at it tomorrow to finish the project and maybe I'll be able to shoot after we are finished ... we figure about 2 days of run time for 500 parts on this project.

wll


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## wll

Go back to my shooting spot after a tough day working on this new part and the squatters looked like they were there all night, this time there were two more people, a man, woman and a dog. I go out of my way to go around them and start shooting through a broken down barn door through the inside of the barn and through a small broken widow on the other side about 25+ yards away. Did the same thing with a broken window that was to the right of it.

Man alive, I was shooting great today, my aim was true, those 1/4" steel balls were flying fast and accurate. There was a small broken side window and I was shooting through it 3 out of 5 shots. Shooting the Luck Ring with 3050's on it. When shooting through the window at another horizontal opening .. I shot went through that 2 times out of five ....AWESOME ;- )

After shooting, while writing this post the female squatter takes a picture of my car and accuses me of shooting at the two Ravens "With Rocks" that have a nest close to where I was shooting ("Rocks, ya Rocks in a small ball slingshot pouch") I tell her that Ravens are a protected bird and I was not shooting at them and I was shooting through the old barn door .... she will have no part of it. This person was seriously "Out to Lunch" ---- Wow !

After talking to this lady I realized she is very seriously mentally ill. I get in my car and leave. Needless to say, I won't return when she is around. So much for what could have been a spectacular shooting rest of the day ;- ( If she is not there tomorrow I hope to shoot the looped 1636 tubes again.

The sling I used was the Luck Ring I posted on this opening thread.

wll


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## SLINGDUDE

1636 was surprisingly stout to me too when i first tried it. What i ended up doing was simply adding a little bit more to my active length. It's a very snappy tube.


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## wll

SLINGDUDE said:


> 1636 was surprisingly stout to me too when i first tried it. What i ended up doing was simply adding a little bit more to my active length. It's a very snappy tube.


Yes, 1636 is a very snappy tube indeed and it really sends 1/4" and 5/16" out like a bullet. I did not shoot it today just because I was just plinking and did not need the extra speed of looped 1636 tubes. Maybe tomorrow I'll shoot it if I go to my old shooting area, that is if the squatters are at this area I that I shot at today..

That old shooting area is a bit out in the boonies, but does have some good long range targets. It kind of scares me at 71 years young to go out there by myself in today's Antifa climate of destroy everything and beat up every one you see, yes it is scary out there ;- )

The old dilapidated house I was shooting 177 cal BB's at in March - April had 4 fire trucks, two police cars and an ambulance around it today ... my bet is a drug over dose from one of Lancaster's best living in the old empty dwelling. I might shoot there tomorrow if I don't have to fling steel over dead burnt maggot infested bodies.

You can probably tell I'm on a roll today ;- )

wll


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## wll

Well the squatters were gone but they left a trail of residue and slime where ever they were ... nice !
Pics Below:

















ANYWAY!

I took out my Mini Cheapo with looped 1636's (bottom pic, opening post) and let 'um rip. Man alive it sure shoots those 1/4" flat, and I was shooting pretty good.

I shot about 30 minutes or so, told the Ravens they were OK and don't worry about the nut loop that was disturbing them yesterday.

Yep, those 1636 tubes are really the real deal, I'm very impressed with that size tubing for this small ammo and 5/16". Yes, it is a little on the stout side to pull but nothing super tough and worth the extra poop if you want it. Most of the time the single 3050's are the bomb and are great for me if I plan on shooting more for field shooting than for pest control, but the 3050's are not bad in that situation either.

Will probably be back tomorrow if the tweakers aren't around. and ya the fire on the olther house was a tweakers hideout according to the FD.

wll


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## robbo

hello can anyone recommend a flat band taper,for 8mm steel with a 1150mm or 45inch draw length first go at butterfly.


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## wll

Got to the office around 5am today and left at 4;30pm. I took off to fire a few shots as I was absolutely beat from dealing with all the stuff I have been dealing with because of the Covid situation, SBA and ****, I could go on for an hour..

Well, I shot a Mini Cheapo with single red 1745's and shot 1/4" steel as ammo. Very nice easy pulling, sending the ammo out quickly, no slow softball pitch trajectory that's for sure :- ) I shot at ranges of about 20-25 yards at old downed trees to broken fences to broken dishwashers ... you name it. The sling is below:










If I would have had more energy I would have shot my mini sling with single 1636's on it. If I get out earlier tomorrow i will do just that. Sling is below:










It sure is nice to fling ammo that moves out quick without pulling wrist rocket type rubber if you know what I mean. I would love to be in a wooded area and shoot small ball stuff, it would be a lot of fun ;- )

wll


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## Ubamajuba

I would love some more tests showing difference in speed on this setups. I pulled up my crono and tested a few setups on my slings. 1632 single, 1632 double, 2040 single, 2040 single half butterfly and my fav green chinese precut green flatband.







There was little diff,speedwise, with 2 exceptions. In general i got 78m/s-80mm/s on my 31" draw with 9-10mm clay. The half butterfly gave me 70m/s and the green flatband allmost 100m/s. I been fidling with tubes for a while but testing my flatband again was like omg. ????
/uba


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## wll

Ubamajuba said:


> I would love some more tests showing difference in speed on this setups. I pulled up my crono and tested a few setups on my slings. 1632 single, 1632 double, 2040 single, 2040 single half butterfly and my fav green chinese precut green flatband.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> IMG_20200607_095826.jpg
> There was little diff,speedwise, with 2 exceptions. In general i got 78m/s-80mm/s on my 31" draw with 9-10mm clay. The half butterfly gave me 70m/s and the green flatband allmost 100m/s. I been fidling with tubes for a while but testing my flatband again was like omg.
> /uba


Ya, Flat-bands really are really the cats meow in the speed department.

wll


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## robbo

with these new types of flat band being superior to theraband,and double theraband blue being a touch over .60. all things being equal ,would you replace it with .60 or .65 precise 3rd gen, or since its superior could you go with .50 maybe and have the same power but less weight.mainly for butterfly draw.


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## wll

robbo said:


> with these new types of flat band being superior to theraband,and double theraband blue being a touch over .60. all things being equal ,would you replace it with .60 or .65 precise 3rd gen, or since its superior could you go with .50 maybe and have the same power but less weight.mainly for butterfly draw.


You are throwing out a tough question for me because I'm basically a "tube" shooter but slowly getting into flats. The Simple Shot Black 22mm x18mm x .7mm are very, very quick and I will probably be buying much more of those.

The are made for 3/8" but I cut them down about 2 1/2 inches+ so I can get a 6.25" - 6.50" active by the time I attach to the pouch and attach to the fork. For me they are awesome for 1/4-5/16 steel and work good for 3/8 steel by the time I cut them down.

The mere thought of me going through all the work of cutting the bands and having to have mats and plastic cutting forms absolutes nauseates me .... to me that is not fun. For me it is a PITA enough just cutting tubes, tying on pouches and the rest of the ^%$#$*% that you have to do to shoot.

It is time for the flat shooters out there to chime in and help Robbo as I'm out of my element here and don't want to give any info out that is not to the best of what I know.

wll


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## robbo

i understand wll, i found it tedious at first but boredom and the need for speed,the only thing i can tell you about tubes is in 2015 test. 1745 single strand 6 inch active 30 inch draw 1/4 steel. with a 1.6 gram pouch 238fps. the same for 8mm steel 217fps switching to a 0.5 pouch increase speed of 10 percent .1745 outperformed 1842 and 2040,with the 8mm steel. looped or doubles 1745 was one fps slower.double 1842 did get 5fps more with 8mm steel.do you think 1636 or 1632 would out perform the single strand 1745 for 6 and 8mm steel that would be good to no.


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## wll

One of my missions if it was not so cold and windy was to test just that.

I have a small sling with 1636 on it and I have a sling with single 1745 and one with singe 3050 and was waiting to shoot them with 1/4" and 5/15" steel to report on it. I would then shoot looped 1636 to see the difference. I would probably test these with 3/8" steel also.

I really do want to see how single 1636 does with 1/4" steel and 177 cal BB's especially. The 177 cal BB's are Soooooo cheap, you can shoot about 175 shots for less than .25c, you can't beat that !! In addition, these tiny spheres are not for sissy's ... they get up and boogie, they fly fast as heck when I was shooting them with single 1745 tubes and I REALLY want to see the speed with single 1636's to see if I can live with the speed from these tubes ?

Right now I'm shooting a lot of single red 1745' with 1/4" and sometimes with 5/16", it shoots both well but it really shoots the 1/4" fast and flat, very usable by my standards.. The single 3050 really zips them too and is a very good single tube for 1/4" and 5/16". I might add I shoot these as if the end of the world may come tomorrow so my elongation factor is around 520-535% (depending on my cut). ~ +- 6.20" active and a 32.5" draw ! I pull till the wall, no further. Doing this, the ammo fly's as if it is on a jet stream cloud. Many folks also use the single 1632's for 177 cal BB's and love them, being they are supposed to be very light pulling yet very fast little tubes.

If you have not shot BB's, you will be very pleasantly surprised. Not only because they are cheap and use easy pulling elastic but because your form needs to be perfect and shooting these little guys will improve your accuracy ... Trust me !! Pic of my small sling with single 1636 on it below:










wll


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## robbo

the problem in Australia is getting the .177 bb. wll you used to be able to buy them any hardware store but not now our gun laws are on the other extreme end of the scale compared to the USA. i think a box of 500 goes for about 7usd, and a 1000 6mm steel balls very close 1/4.goes for 14USD. 8mm is the best allrounder i have settled on 1000 for 22USD best deal i can get on bigger ammo is 500 11mm steel balls,for USD 17.50 what do you roughly pay for 1/4 ammo wll.


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## wll

1/4" cost me about $34.91 X 9% tax for 5000 or .0076 per ball. If I buy from another supplier they are .00725ish per ball. I usually buy from the more expensive seller (BC Bearing) just because of the way they are packaged.

Those prices are from Amazon.

My bearing guy a while back sold me 3/8" for the price of the 1/4" I'm buying now ... the price of steel is going up. My suppliers price now on 3/8" is quite a bit higher then his last shipment. I bought huge quantities to get that price a while ago, but now those days are over I do believe. Not sure if the Covid -19 thing is to blame or not ?

wll.


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## Ubamajuba

Im gonna jump on this BB train. But i found 2 types. Steel 0.35gr and lead 0.56gr. What would you recomend. Steel cheaper if i buy bulk (5000) led comes only in 500 boxes but are cheaper compared to 500 Steel box.
/uba


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## robbo

the smallest ive shot with is 6mm steel and that is light at 0,89 of a gram i would go with the led in my opinion,


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## wll

Ubamajuba said:


> Im gonna jump on this BB train. But i found 2 types. Steel 0.35gr and lead 0.56gr. What would you recomend. Steel cheaper if i buy bulk (5000) led comes only in 500 boxes but are cheaper compared to 500 Steel box.
> /uba


Steel BB's weigh 5.1grains how much do lead weigh ?

wll


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## robbo

7.75 grains wll


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## wll

Take off after work to try to shoot,--- almost impossible again with this wind.

I shot single 1636, single 1745 with 1/4" steel, looped #33 rubber bands for BB's and my new engraved Flat band Shooter with 1/4" steel.

The single 1636's sent the 1/4" out very, very well and I could definitely live with it. It seemed right up there with the single 1745's, both were shot at 32.5" draw and just at the wall. I put some 177 cal BB's in the pouch of the 1636's and they flew very, very fast ... I was happy with them. If it wasn't this windy I would have chronographed them.

I then took out my new little flat band shooter, It came with flats so I shot with those. Well as you would expect from flats, they are lightning bolts, but I did get some finger slap, they are probably better for 5/16" steel, but I'll use them for 1/4" anyway a very nice little slingshot.

After this pic was taken I changed the mounting to what it was intended for and that is the pull and slip in type band mount. it holds very secure but can be a PITA to install ... For me, nothing is easy with flats..This is a nice feeling sling, after I bought this GZK pulled them from his stock, I think they were way underpriced ?










I then shot my zinc sling with Staples # 33 linked rubbery bands and 117 cal BB's ---- I'm not impressed at all, IMHO they stink.










I sure wish the wind would stop so I could Chrono some of this stuff, including the Staples #33 rubber band sling above.

So what were my feeling after shooting today ... well the 1636 singles are just fine with 1/4" steel, They are able to get 'er done. Wish I had been able to see what my real velocities are comparing the 1636 and the 1745 's. I'm betting the 1745 are faster, but I have been wrong many times before.. They very well may be within 10 fps from each other as they both shoot well. I was shooting between 25ish and 30 yards. Would I use this single for Starlings ? Yes, for sure, If I could ever get close to them ;- )

I plan on going out again tomorrow, but it may be a bit later than today as I have hordes of people coming over to count inventory.

wll


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## wll

robbo said:


> 7.75 grains wll


Well that should make that little BB more potent. I'm sure you can shoot it at 250-275 fps, faster than a BB gun. I will look in to buying some small lead ... could be very,very interesting as it will be smaller, have less surface area, so it will fly flatter .... hummmmmmmm.

I'm off to check it out ;- )

wll

Well I just looked it up and #3 buckshot .250 dia weighs in at 23.3 grains compared to steel 16.6 gr (my scale) or the lead weighs in at 39% more than the steel. ...... but it is very expensive ..... is it worth it ....... well it probably penetrates like a son of a gun if driven fast. the nickel coated is the bomb, if you can find it at about $58 bucks for ~2400 rounds. The hard lead un plated is about $38.00

wll


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## robbo

well wll, youve talked me into trying tubes again.ill wait till my slingshot rifle project is finished, it will have a 45inch draw length.single 9inch active length 1745 with 8mm steel and a 0.5 gram pouch. i dont have a crony but it should get up and boogie mate,keep up the good work and have fun doing it i am very interested in your results.be interesting to see how much more speed you get with a 32inch draw compared to the 30inch draw results robbo


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## wll

robbo said:


> well wll, youve talked me into trying tubes again.ill wait till my slingshot rifle project is finished, it will have a 45inch draw length.single 9inch active length 1745 with 8mm steel and a 0.5 gram pouch. i dont have a crony but it should get up and boogie mate,keep up the good work and have fun doing it i am very interested in your results.be interesting to see how much more speed you get with a 32inch draw compared to the 30inch draw results robbo


Well that SHOULD put the pedal to the metal, but elastic is kind of funny and many times what I think is going to work great just a pipe dream.

I'm a pretty basic kind of guy and if you notice almost all the top shooters use flats, and there is a reason. For me I'm lazy and want good speed but it comes at a price, and that price is ... those tubes can be hard to pull back ... On the other side of the equation, tubes in general are tough and they last a long time.

When doing the testing like I did this afternoon, the flats were a joy to pull back and shot that ammo out like a bullet. The 1636 was also pretty darn good, but not as good as the flats. In slingshots as in life, there are compromises, a ying and yang to everything.

I would keep asking questions and get answer from the guys on this forum ... there are a bunch of very smart and experienced shooters who know elastic and have done much more scientific testing then I. I have learned a awful lot from folks on this forum, it is a great resource of knowledge.

wll


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## robbo

yes mate weight of rubber your right might be 1636 do the job better i do like flatbands though. years ago i had a batch of red dub dub tube and that in single strand made 10mm steel go very well but i found it inconsistant. with my short 26 to 28 inch draw .75 3rd gen precise 19x9.5 and a 0.5gram pouch makes 8mm steel go like a lightning bolt.


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## wll

Well I'll be shooting this today, heck or high water. It is still windy as I can see but I'm going to heading out in a hour anyway. I put single 1636's on this zinc sling along with a new small pouch I got from Slingshot Shooting today ... very nice little pouches :- ) Absolutely the perfect size for 1/4" steel, 7mm and 5/16" ----- Nothing bigger, 5/16" is just barely OK ;- ) !










wll


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## wll

Did some speed test with single 1636, single 1745 and looped 1636. The wind was not to bad out there.

The single 1636 was shooting about 262 fps --- Yes they were booking it !

The looped 1636 was shooting about the same 267 fps ---- I thought they would be faster !

The single 1745 was at 254 fps --- I thought this and the 1636 would be much closer !

Sometimes things are not what they seem. Sometimes the harder pulling equates to faster in your head even when you watch it fly but that might not bee the case !.

The single 1636, stretched to 525% or so elongation, really puts the pedal to the metal. I might add I really like these small ball pouches from SlingShooting.com, they are perfect for 1/4" steel. Being they are 43mm long, your hold and release must be pure, if you know what i mean ! I did not shoot any 5/16" where I "assume" the looped 1636 would shine.

I also tied pouch and fork attachments with 16 stranded pure cotton butchers twine -- very, very, very, nice. Much softer and thicker than the black and white twine I have been using ..... I will now use this for fork and pouch attachments. (I still have lots of 3mm black waxed thread and will use that when it is appropriate, but I really like this butchers twine ------- (Thank you Tex-Shooter, for your information from a two year old post)

I will come back tomorrow and give it another go. So far the 1636 is a pretty good set up for "Small Ball". I do keep thinking I need a pseudo set up, but they always slip on me and they wear quite fast .... so is it worth it ? I'll have to sleep on it !

wll


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## robbo

great stuff mate. what will take the gold medal for 5/16 1636 double vs single 1745, could the single 1636 snatch the gold away.great work wll,and great fun doing it.

.


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## Ubamajuba

Got some. 177 BBs to Day led and zink coverd Steel. The led is 0.53gr Steel not sure. Pulled out my crono and did 5 of each when done i pulled out a flatband that i used to pelt 6mm Steel with.Sling is the single maple hatchet ttf. Tubes 1636 premium red from dankun, pulled to stop 32 ish draw. Pouch is chinese Micro fiber. So right off the bat my Steel BB clocked in
96.6m/s
95.7m/s
96.6m/s
97.1m/s
96.6m/s

Led
94.1m/s
94.0m/s
93.7m/s
94.2m/s
92.3m/s

Flatband only 2 shots led
91.3m/s
92.0m/s

18c and No wind. 1m-ish to chrono. 97.1m/s =318.6 fps. Wow.

/uba


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## robbo

4.5mm steel .38gram , 5mm steel .52gram , 6mm steel, .89gram , and 1/4inch which is 6.35mm is l.06gram happy shooting.


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## wll

Went out about 3:30pm and it was hot (94Deg), pulled the sling out of the cool car and shot a few 1/4" steel over the chrono with single 1636 ....

Zips them at an average of 268fps, NICE :-

) I'm very impressed with single 1636. Some of my tubes set are a smidgen to long, I want the "WALL" to be right at 32.5 inches if I can. That is about 6.125 active x 32.5 at very close to 535% elongation. My tubes are close to 6.25is" - 6.5" right now and I'm trying to fine tune them ;- )

I shot at some wooden support beams and that steel ball was right there at the 22-28 yard range and it was flying quick.

I might add the constrictor knots with the 16 strand butchers twine were not slipping at all, my heavy waxed cotton jewelers twine does, I'm very impressed !

wll


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## robbo

jeez wll thats great wonder if for the smaller ammo its between 1636 and 1632 was looking at tubes and seen 1030 never heard of it before.that small pouch your using is about .29 of a gram wll great stuff mate.


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## wll

I posted this pic on another link last night, but you can see the size of a 1/4" ball (the ball is round, the lighting makes it look oblong). A 5/16" ball is the biggest that fits, it really is good for 6mm, 1/4", 7mm steel and 5/16" steel .I don't know what this little pouch weighs but it is next to nothing.. The hole in the middle is a little to big for 177cal BB's, but a small cut out of Tyvek contact cemented works great and I have used that concept a lot these past 3 months.










Yes, I will be going out tomorrow, to fling some more ... if I can get off work early, it may be the day from heck as we have folks in taking i more inventory tomorrow.

wll


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## robbo

yes wll i seen your other post like it was christmas all come at once that pouch is the A pouch from slingshooting. when you put it in the cart it gives you the weight.its .28 or .29. i can recommend the C pouch for 8mm 5/16 ammo with the star shaped hole.with arthritis i cant hold those small pouches mate happy shooting look forward to reading your results robbo


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## Ubamajuba

My acrive tubes are 15 cm Long, and i pulled them to 96.5cm giving me a stretch. 6.43 so i stretch them 643%?

/uba


----------



## wll

Ubamajuba said:


> My acrive tubes are 15 cm Long, and i pulled them to 96.5cm giving me a stretch. 6.43 so i stretch them 643%?
> 
> /uba


Yep, that right. Your ammo has to be coming out like a bullet ... If the tubes don't break, ;- )

wll


----------



## Ubamajuba

I have to try this in butterfly


----------



## wll

Went to shoot at my spot but Mrs.Trashpile was there, unloading her white van with goods from a week or so of dumpster diving ----- so I moved to another one of my locations I was shooting at back in April.

I got out and let the 1/4" steel sing and sing it did. Not only did it fly fast but I was on, I hit about everything I was aiming at, some of my shots were a little to the right as I was tending to hold off the side of my earlobe but I quickly made corrections and was clobbering my targets again. Most of my shots were in the 20-30 yard range. The ammo flying fast greatly helps with vertical accuracy for sure !!!

Tomorrow, I will probably set up another sling with 1636's. I need to set this carry box up a little different, taking a couple slings out to lighten it up. I have a couple of flat shooters that I really don't need. I have one heavy duty sling with 185 gr round balls, but that is for a special purpose 

I have not had anything land within 25 or so yards of me, except the Ravens, who are a big loud annoyance  I'm waiting for a Starling or Hosp, but they land pretty far from me most of the time.

It was pretty darn hot, hoping the weekend is cooler and not windy so I can do some testing. Meanwhile I plan on being back and hopefully Tweaker Bell is not there.

Until tomorrow,

Side Bar:

When I got home: I took out the couple slings that were flat shooters and put them away. I then took a couple of others in my carry and set them apart from the others --- those I will change tubes on, one sling with a single 1745 will change to a single 1636's. The single Cheapo with 3050 I will change to looped 1636's for 5/16 and 3/8". by 8 am I'm sure my mission will be completed. All of these will be tied with 16 strand 100% cotton butchers twine and set up with an active length of as close as I can to 6.125"ish for my 32.5" inch draw for a elongation factor of ~525-530%. These tubes at this factor tend to shoot pretty much at the wall or stop ! Yes, your ammo arrives at it intended target the same day ;- )

wll


----------



## robbo

g,day wll when you shoot over 250fps can you see the 1/4inch ammo in flight, not having a crony i always wondered how fast ammo would have to be going to not see it


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> g,day wll when you shoot over 250fps can you see the 1/4inch ammo in flight, not having a crony i always wondered how fast ammo would have to be going to not see it


I can only see it in flight when I have a dark background so I can see the suns reflection off the ball. Very rarely can I pick up the flight when shooting in an open field unless the surrounding of my target is dark. Shooting at a Starling in a tree I only know where I am when I can see a branch ges hit or the twigs around him move when hit. If it is a tree has lots of green leaves and shadows, then most times I can pick up the path.

This size ammo ---- 1/4", 5/16" and even 3/8" is pretty small, it is not like watching a nice big marble fly ;- )

Greatly looking forward to shooting tomorrow afternoon and this weekend !!

wll


----------



## Ubamajuba

The butterfly did not go so well. No control when going past 600 stretch. Didnt get one thru the chrono. Ended up hitting my self behind the ear. Im glad its allost no weight.

/uba


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## robbo

what did you get hit by ammo bands pouch,from what ive heard in the past i would get a glove mate because if you over compensate the other way you will drill your hand thats why apart from my normal slingshot draw witch is short im making a slingshot rifle 45 inch draw to satisfy my need for speed.


----------



## ForkLess

This is all great information! I been trying to get max speeds as well, but my crony is down. This has been very helpful, thanks for sharing.


----------



## wll

Got to work very early and set up these slings (finished them all before 5:45 am).

The one on the left is a nice small stainless Chinese sling, it fits in the hand well and is perfect for single tubes. The one in the center is one of my Luck Rings, it now has looped 1636's on it for anything between 1/4" to 3/8" if I wish to shoot that bigger size. The sling on the right is a Mini Cheapo with single 1636's. I shot this sling a lot when it had single red 1745's on it, but decided to change. I'm loving the speed of these spaghetti tubes ;- ) I might add the singles are explosive for 177 cal BB's, least I not forget !

All three of these are around the 525% elongation and at my draw are at the wall as they say. If we have nice weather and the wind is not blowing I will try to chrono these later today if I can using 1/4" steel.










wll


----------



## robbo

if you had to shoot for your life wll,which sling would you pick for me its the tac hammer.


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> if you had to shoot for your life wll,which sling would you pick for me its the tac hammer.


None of these, these are for fun and maybe small pest bird control. I would go totally in another direction for heavy stuff.

wll


----------



## wll

I head out to my spot and sure enough Tweaker Bell was there, I kept on going to my old spot. It was very, very windy but I shot a few shots, my accuracy was good.

My ammo out of the single tube 1636 is very quick ya around the 25-30 yard mark it starts to droop a bit but what do you expect, this is not a 22-250 ; - ) I smacked a fence post at around the 20+ ward range and from the sound, it smacked it pretty hard, I was lucky to watch as the ball found its mark. I took some other shots through the empty burnt out door ways and it hit its intended targets darn quick.. This set up is kicking those little guys out the door fast ;- ).

This place has gotten worse in the last few months for sure. Pretty picturesque huh ;- ) Pics below.



















I hope to be able to shoot tomorrow but not sure. Have a big machine job to do this weekend.

wll


----------



## robbo

are they squatters wll,thats what we call them in Australia. people who move into abandoned houses dont pay rent and dont move till there carried out.those 1636 tubes cut active length 9 inches 45 inch draw might be very good for 5/16 the wonder of rubber.


----------



## wll

Here is the little China Sling that I just glamorized a little. This is the sling I was using today and she was doing a great job. Who ever designed this little sling did a very good job, it is very small yet comfortable to hold, unlike the Gen 2 Cheapo that does not fit my hand at all.










wll


----------



## wll

Besides buying some more small pouches from Slingshooting and GZK for "Small Ball", I also bought some 2040 .. just because I wanted a little more poop for maybe 3/8" steel. I'm thinking looped 2040 will be easier to pull and better suited for 3/8" than looped 1842 for sure ;- )

wll


----------



## robbo

i could quote those different elastic test all day wll google slingshot elastic test january 2015. if that dont work 18mm theraband gold speed test theres a good page for 3/8 steel with 2040 . 1745. 1842, single and looped its the one for a 30 inch draw theres a lot of info in those results mate.


----------



## wll

I posted my finding on a Ultra Pseudo I did using 1636 on another post. It shot 1/4" ball very quickly at over 300 fps with a 32.5 Inch draw.

wll


----------



## SLINGDUDE

That's blazing speed!


----------



## wll

SLINGDUDE said:


> That's blazing speed!


Yes, Those are coming out like a rocket ship. The single to loop attachment I will change probably to a Metro1/2 loop attachment method he posted a while ago a standard loop to loop knot, with an alteration, it may work just perfect as it spreads the load over a bigger area causing less frequent breakage for sure and I think it will be more secure. I will probably take the sling I shot today and make the change and post !!

wll


----------



## robbo

wll do they still have the 300 club, with your crony you would be in it,great stuff mate wonder how much quicker those tubes could be.


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> wll do they still have the 300 club, with your crony you would be in it,great stuff mate wonder how much quicker those tubes could be.


Yes, it very much surprised me with such little pull, I will try to shoot some 5/16" steel, I wonder if that will be in the 275-280fps area ? That would make an awesome little Starling set up for sure :- )

wll


----------



## Ubamajuba

wll said:


> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> wll do they still have the 300 club, with your crony you would be in it,great stuff mate wonder how much quicker those tubes could be.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it very much surprised me with such little pull, I will try to shoot some 5/16" steel, I wonder if that will be in the 275-280fps area ? That would make an awesome little Starling set up for sure :- )
> 
> wll
Click to expand...




wll said:


> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> wll do they still have the 300 club, with your crony you would be in it,great stuff mate wonder how much quicker those tubes could be.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, it very much surprised me with such little pull, I will try to shoot some 5/16" steel, I wonder if that will be in the 275-280fps area ? That would make an awesome little Starling set up for sure :- )
> 
> wll
Click to expand...

I had the same experience. I had problems shooting my .177 cal and i put something bigger in the pouch to see if it corected the problem. Not sure if it was an 7 or 9 mm Steel but dang it was fast. Gonna try to crono some when i get home.

/uba


----------



## Ubamajuba

Made a psudo and shot some steel BBs. Sounded like an air rifle but i had a bigger pouch than i normal do.Clocked 106-107m/s, and i got a vid to show. How do I upload that? So easy to pull just silly 







/uba


----------



## Ubamajuba

Think i made it. 
/uba


----------



## wll

Ubamajuba said:


> Think i made it.
> /uba


That is putting the pedal to the metal !!

wll


----------



## wll

Just got these in from GZK, and they are fantastic. They just fit a 1/4" and 5/16" ball perfectly. wish I had a slingshot to put these on right now ?

They are item B43.

Again the ball looks oval but it is not, it is just the lighting. That is a 5/16" in the pouch ... that is the biggest for this pouch.


----------



## Ubamajuba

Did a few shots with 8mm an 9mm steel on a little bigger psudo 1636 dankung red premium. Pretty constant. 8mm 86m/s~280fps 9mm 77m/s~252fps.felt a wee bit sluggish. Maybe the lack of sound? 
/uba


----------



## wll

Took a small break from work and shot my cheap Chinese Zinco with single 1636 tubes and 1/4" steel.

Man alive I forgot how fast this single sends these little guys out at, they were really flying and smacking stuff hard. You talk about comfortable pulling back, these guys are it ;- ) They do though have some hand slap when shooting 1/4" on the sling I was using

This easy to set up combo is pretty darn nice.










wll


----------



## wll

Went out again, and shot single 1636's with 1/4" steel ball ammo .... man alive very little pull and the ammo is zipping out fast and fancy free ;- ). The little zinco is not the best of slings so I'm putting her in a box at home with another small sling just to do away with some carry weight in my slingshot bag.

I will probably be out early tomorrow morning before it heats up as I want to get back to the office and work on an adaptation of the ultra pseudo that is much faster to tie up yet is non slip ... we will see.

wll


----------



## wll

I don't know if I'll set this 17-4PH sling up with 2040 pseudos or a Mini Cheapo ? These slings in real life are absolutely beautiful and I'm afraid of getting a fork hit or ?. I will tube the forks and if it fits, I'll stretch some 1/2" ID tube over the body and maybe wrap the finger hole with black paracord ? This sling deserves to be beautified, even though I'm using them in the field ;- ) If this works out, I'll dress out the other 17-4PH to match the one I'll do tomorrow.










wll


----------



## wll

Its 5:40 am and I'm out flinging 1/4" steel. There is a slight breeze and it's a nice 71deg. Ravens are out being a PITA but they are showing some decorum so far.

No chronographing anything today just letting the ammo fly.

I'm actually in awe how fast these 1/4" fly with these tiny 1636 tubes. I'm shooting mostly in the 25ish + yard range and these guys are flying hard and true, very little pull and are smacking the stuff I'm shooting at well.

While shooting this morning I'm thinking why am I going through all this C☆@P with pseudo tubes, loop tubes and bla, bla, bla for an extra 30 ish fps, is it really worth it ? The way I'm doing the Ultra Pseudos it is such a pain, I hate fiddling with elastic, let me put it on and I want to be down the road --- not building the road !

wll


----------



## StringSlap

wll said:


> Its 5:40 am and I'm out flinging 1/4" steel. There is a slight breeze and it's a nice 71deg. Ravens are out being a PITA but they are showing some decorum so far.
> 
> No chronographing anything today just letting the ammo fly.
> 
> I'm actually in awe how fast these 1/4" fly with these tiny 1636 tubes. I'm shooting mostly in the 25ish + yard range and these guys are flying hard and true, very little pull and are smacking the stuff I'm shooting at well.
> 
> While shooting this morning I'm thinking why am I going through all this C☆@P with pseudo tubes, loop tubes and bla, bla, bla for an extra 30 ish fps, is it really worth it ? The way I'm doing the Ultra Pseudos it is such a pain, I hate fiddling with elastic, let me put it on and I want to be down the road --- not building the road !
> 
> wll


I'm with you 100%. I like as simple a setup as possible (less time to make and less to go wrong) and then like to set it and forget it. That's why I'm setting all my frames up with quick change tabs. I technically will only need one or two tube sets made up at any time and can swap frames in a minute.


----------



## wll

Went out again, and let the 1/4" rip, I'm loving watching these babies fly, was shooting a little farther then thus am.. All my shots were between the 25-35 ish yardage and there were no softballs for darn sure !!

Pic of the small Chinese shooter is below. I have a bunch of these slings, and although small are very comfortable and PERFECT for single tube stuff.










The Ravens were away so I took a pic of their nest in the tree above.










Pic of new Dual Half Hitch Loop Tie. Each knot slips against each other and so far in testing has not come apart or slipped, Very fast and easy to tie but must be lubed well and pulled tight at the get go.










More to come ;- )

wll


----------



## wll

A lot has happened in the last 9 days or so and I'm head first into the pseudo loop thing using Chinese ribbon. I'm using my new jig that makes tying pseudos a snap as well as elastic to the pouch.

I have had a problem using the ribbon, but not now it is way faster then me tying constrictor knots --- and I can tie constrictor knots very, very fast ! All tube set are perfect in length and they look really professionally done. The ribbon tie for the loop so far has not slipped at all and I'm pulling at the wall ;- )

I just tied up a monster set today using 1/16ID x 1/16Wall x 3/16OD. This is very tough stuff for heavy ammo or for a band-set out in the woods that needs to hold up, not the fastest in the world but a solid one.

I hope to get out and test it tomorrow using 3/8" steel. If the loops do not slip and I can get in the 240+fps, that could be a very good --- I think the speed will be in the 220+ fps area, but we will see. I have been surprised many times as I have been disappointment many times ---- tomorrow will be the "Tale Of The Tape"

wll


----------



## wll

Head out before noon today and start shooting with just my small Chinese with 1636 single tubes. This baby was sending those 1/4" steels darn good. Yes, they shoot pretty darn flat with 1636's pulled to the wall of my 32"+ draw.

I sat down on an old lawn chair in a room that is probably a tweekers den at night and waited for Starlings (yes, hunting license on me, as you are not allowed to shoot any game or non game animal without a hunting license in Kalifornia).

Not much was happening so I did a little shooting at old junk lying around.

I left after a bit to grab an ice cream and go home, I'll be back in a few hours.

Below is a pic of the sling I was shooting and in the background showing the the tweekers den floor, the pic below that is of the room. This was probably a pretty nice house back 20 years or so ago ---- :- |



















wll


----------



## wll

Head out again to an other area with the hope of snaging something and doing a little practice.

Soon after I arrive a couple cars pull up and they're examining the property looking at it as if they're gonna tear it down or who knows what --- so this may be another shooting area that goes by the wayside, time will tell.

After they leave I do some more practicing - I'm shooting pretty good but I'm really not in my zone for some reason, I'm just not feeling it, who knows.

I go back out to where I was earlier in the day and sit in the lawn chair that I sat in a few hours ago and wait for something of interest .... nothing arrives, so as I'm leaving I take a pick of the room and the chair that I sit in to scour the trash heaps that abound in the yard.










I get home and get a little pack together for tomorrow, a couple slings, some ammo, I plan on going light instead of carrying all the stuff I normally carry. I'll leave in a little earlier than usual just to get the morning rise if you know what I mean. If it's nice enough and cool enough I may stay out there a little longer than usual but we will see.

It will be very interesting to see if the chair is there or if the tweekers in the night break it or ? sometimes from day to day the place is just trashed .. it is very strange.

Till tomorrow,

wll


----------



## wll

Went out this morning and let the steel sing. I was shooting pretty good as long as I remember to keep my head not way bent over and twist the pouch so my anchor stays in the same position on my earlobe. My lefts and rights are pretty good but sometimes my highs and lows are a cause for concern, if I do what I need to do then everything is fine.

The little Chinese sling is a real sweetie but I may go to a Mini Cheapo just because it gives me a little more to hang on to. No need for a pseudo on these little guys as the 1/4" are flying out of there quick and have plenty of speed for Sparrows and the occasional Starling. Where I'm shooting from now most shots are in the 20 yard range.

I'm heading back in the shop to make another 1636 single tube set so I have an extra when out in the boonies.

~ Fifteen Minutes Later:

Just made one, but added a small pseudo for ease of installing on Chinese ring sling and it will add a little zip - the Loop is 1.5 inches










wll


----------



## wll

Well I shot this with a 1/4" steel from 63 paces away from my front door at work today. Remember these little guys are going out real fast. That is a eucalyptus tree BTW.

I think from this distance that is awesome and any Sparrow or Starling that is in the 30 yard ish range is toast !!!

This was with the little single 1636 tubed sling in the post in the room with the clothes hanger behind it.










wll


----------



## robbo

thats pretty impressive wll, that would go clean through a coke can at 30 yards thats pretty good you convinced me to get some tubes 1636 2040 1745. am currently testing 1636 from 20 yards sometimes clean through coke can sometimes stays in can my draw only 27 inches thats with singles any advice be welcome mate have a good day.


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> thats pretty impressive wll, that would go clean through a coke can at 30 yards thats pretty good you convinced me to get some tubes 1636 2040 1745. am currently testing 1636 from 20 yards sometimes clean through coke can sometimes stays in can my draw only 27 inches thats with singles any advice be welcome mate have a good day.


Draw length is one thing and the elongation factor is another .. I'm just at the wall within about 1/4" on every shot and have a 6.125"  active tube length for my 32.5"ish draw..... I can get pretty good measurements with my Pseudo and Pouch jig !

wll


----------



## robbo

wll said:


> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats pretty impressive wll, that would go clean through a coke can at 30 yards thats pretty good you convinced me to get some tubes 1636 2040 1745. am currently testing 1636 from 20 yards sometimes clean through coke can sometimes stays in can my draw only 27 inches thats with singles any advice be welcome mate have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> Draw length is one thing and the elongation factor is another .. I'm just at the wall within about 1/4" on every shot and have a 6.125" active tube length for my 32.5"ish draw..... I can get pretty good measurements with my Pseudo and Pouch jig !
> 
> wll
> 
> thankyou ill work on the 6.125 stretch factor with 1636 and 1/4 inch steel wll. if that dont give me the power im looking for i will move up to 2040 i want to stick with singles for now regards robbo.
Click to expand...


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> wll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats pretty impressive wll, that would go clean through a coke can at 30 yards thats pretty good you convinced me to get some tubes 1636 2040 1745. am currently testing 1636 from 20 yards sometimes clean through coke can sometimes stays in can my draw only 27 inches thats with singles any advice be welcome mate have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> Draw length is one thing and the elongation factor is another .. I'm just at the wall within about 1/4" on every shot and have a 6.125" active tube length for my 32.5"ish draw..... I can get pretty good measurements with my Pseudo and Pouch jig !
> 
> wll
> 
> thankyou ill work on the 6.125 stretch factor with 1636 and 1/4 inch steel wll. if that dont give me the power im looking for i will move up to 2040 i want to stick with singles for now regards robbo.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That very well may not work at all for you, it is all about the percentage of looped to the over all length to your draw length .. with a 27" draw things would be very different for sure ;- )

wll


----------



## robbo

wll said:


> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats pretty impressive wll, that would go clean through a coke can at 30 yards thats pretty good you convinced me to get some tubes 1636 2040 1745. am currently testing 1636 from 20 yards sometimes clean through coke can sometimes stays in can my draw only 27 inches thats with singles any advice be welcome mate have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> Draw length is one thing and the elongation factor is another .. I'm just at the wall within about 1/4" on every shot and have a 6.125" active tube length for my 32.5"ish draw..... I can get pretty good measurements with my Pseudo and Pouch jig !
> 
> wll
> 
> thankyou ill work on the 6.125 stretch factor with 1636 and 1/4 inch steel wll. if that dont give me the power im looking for i will move up to 2040 i want to stick with singles for now regards robbo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That very well may not work at all for you, it is all about the percentage of looped to the over all length to your draw length .. with a 27" draw things would be very different for sure ;- )
> 
> wll
> 
> if you can come up with a wining formula for me i will yous it wll .
Click to expand...


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> wll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> wll said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> robbo said:
> 
> 
> 
> thats pretty impressive wll, that would go clean through a coke can at 30 yards thats pretty good you convinced me to get some tubes 1636 2040 1745. am currently testing 1636 from 20 yards sometimes clean through coke can sometimes stays in can my draw only 27 inches thats with singles any advice be welcome mate have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> Draw length is one thing and the elongation factor is another .. I'm just at the wall within about 1/4" on every shot and have a 6.125" active tube length for my 32.5"ish draw..... I can get pretty good measurements with my Pseudo and Pouch jig !
> 
> wll
> 
> thankyou ill work on the 6.125 stretch factor with 1636 and 1/4 inch steel wll. if that dont give me the power im looking for i will move up to 2040 i want to stick with singles for now regards robbo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That very well may not work at all for you, it is all about the percentage of looped to the over all length to your draw length .. with a 27" draw things would be very different for sure ;- )
> 
> wll
> 
> if you can come up with a wining formula for me i will yous it wll .
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

That is way to complicated for me, I just pick a length that was a bit less then 1 to 1 and went with it. Wish I was a scientist, I would know the answers. LOL, LOL

wll


----------



## craigbutnotreally

wll said:


> Just got these in from GZK, and they are fantastic. They just fit a 1/4" and 5/16" ball perfectly. wish I had a slingshot to put these on right now ?
> 
> They are item B43.
> 
> Again the ball looks oval but it is not, it is just the lighting. That is a 5/16" in the pouch ... that is the biggest for this pouch.


I love those little pouches. They're what finally got me to convert to microfiber. My first one has thousands of shots through it at this point and is still going strong. I bought 30 of them but don't see me using them up for a looooong time. Was going through a leather one every couple band sets before.


----------



## robbo

single tube for 1/4 steel


----------



## wll

robbo said:


> single tube for 1/4 steel


I use that pouch for pseudo 1842 and 1636 no problem ... Great pouch.

wll


----------



## wll

Arrived around 5:30 at my spot, as I parked the Jeep there was a Starling some 20 yds out in clear sight.

Got out of the car and he stayed around, I put in a 1/4" and let 'er fly, the starling shuttered his wings as if to say that was to close for comfort, I took another shot and hit the branch he was on, off he went. I will say that the pseudo configuration is really the cats meow with all the tubes I have tested.. It really send "um.

Yes the 1745 is way overkill, but it sends "Small Ball" very, very fast.

Sitting in the abandon "Love Shack" as the sun is coming up, don't see anything yet but my eyes are pealed.

I take some shots using the Gen3 Cheapo and its working out pretty well, being it is a bit wider and maybe 1/4" longer than the mini makes a big difference in comfort, but the steep angle of the forks needs to be straightened out also I feel. I will putt the fork section in a vice and straightening it out a lot, it will aid in lengthening the sling out a bit and add to the comfort.

The one thing I forgot to do when I made this sling is the wall between the forks to stop getting slapped hard in the web of my hand, and yes it hurts like heck !!! I will put one on as soon as I'm through shooting ;- )

wll


----------



## wll

Shooting the mini Cheapo with 1636 pseudo out this am, its easy pulling, not to much hand slap, and it shoots 1/4" around the 315fps+ area......fast enough for English Sparrows and Starlings.

As I'm waiting for targets of opportunity a cotton tail comes scooting by, oblivious to me watching him. Sun is coming up so things should be starting to happen if I'm lucky. Nothing is happening so I take a shot at an old shoe that's about 15 yards away and smack it, I launch one into the old galvanized box of some type just to hear the hit, and hit it does after a while I pick up movement way out in the desert floor maybe some 300+ yards out and see a coyote sneaking around, he drifts away as I watch.

The quail are starting to call and I see a few Starlings but they are flying away. I'm in position for a target that lands in a tree that is about 15 yards out. A thrush lands and finds a piece of something of importance to him/her and puts it in some cactus, as this is happening a nice big fat juicy quail lands in the tree I'm watching and starts to squawk. Life is around me but not what I'm after.

I hear big machinery in back of me, I think they are doing road work on roads that don't need to be fixed so they can spend more money and raise taxes..... (I'll try to refrain from making political comments).

A huge Jack passes by and quickly goes behind a big bush, I wait but he has disappears as he turns ----- I could have whacked him on the noggin for sure :-( Meanwhile with all this is going on, the dumpster diving Thrush is putting all kinds of goodies in her cactus hub, it a bit late for breading season, but I don't know this species that well.

It's 7am now, and the weather is nice. Waiting patiently for something to show up but so far nothing, as I'm writing the sling is at my ready. Three 1/4" steel balls are under my tongue, waiting to be quickly loaded. The mid body lanyard is around my middle and forefinger, so slingshot is ready for action.

I wait, wait and wait ---- it has been a beautiful experience just seeing life abound around me  ----- I think its time to go home.

wll


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## robbo

wll said:


> Shooting the mini Cheapo with 1636 pseudo out this am, its easy pulling, not to much hand slap, and it shoots 1/4" around the 315fps+ area......fast enough for English Sparrows and Starlings.
> 
> As I'm waiting for targets of opportunity a cotton tail comes scooting by, oblivious to me watching him. Sun is coming up so things should be starting to happen if I'm lucky. Nothing is happening so I take a shot at an old shoe that's about 15 yards away and smack it, I launch one into the old galvanized box of some type just to hear the hit, and hit it does after a while I pick up movement way out in the desert floor maybe some 300+ yards out and see a coyote sneaking around, he drifts away as I watch.
> 
> The quail are starting to call and I see a few Starlings but they are flying away. I'm in position for a target that lands in a tree that is about 15 yards out. A thrush lands and finds a piece of something of importance to him/her and puts it in some cactus, as this is happening a nice big fat juicy quail lands in the tree I'm watching and starts to squawk. Life is around me but not what I'm after.
> 
> I hear big machinery in back of me, I think they are doing road work on roads that don't need to be fixed so they can spend more money and raise taxes..... (I'll try to refrain from making political comments).
> 
> A huge Jack passes by and quickly goes behind a big bush, I wait but he has disappears as he turns ----- I could have whacked him on the noggin for sure :-( Meanwhile with all this is going on, the dumpster diving Thrush is putting all kinds of goodies in her cactus hub, it a bit late for breading season, but I don't know this species that well.
> 
> It's 7am now, and the weather is nice. Waiting patiently for something to show up but so far nothing, as I'm writing the sling is at my ready. Three 1/4" steel balls are under my tongue, waiting to be quickly loaded. The mid body lanyard is around my middle and forefinger, so slingshot is ready for action.
> 
> I wait, wait and wait ---- it has been a beautiful experience just seeing life abound around me  ----- I think its time to go home.
> 
> wll
> 
> wll i think your a budding novelist,not mills and boon but lol.


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## wll

Out here again, four 1/4" steels under my tongue. It is pretty warm so I don't expect much, but you never know. My Mini with pseudo 1636's are waiting to pounce.

Shot a few a little while ago, and they were moving out ! I love it when your ammo flies level to about the 30 yard mark !

I stand up it take a shot at about 15 yards and miss ..... but my pseudo broke at the single tube just past the tie, pic below.










How many shots you ask, I don't keep count but I have used it for bit plinking and some hunting ... I'm going to say 200-250 ish shots without fibbing. To tell ya the truth I thought it would get more shots than that :-(

Went back to my car and pulled out a yellow mini Cheapo (soon to be black) with either 1842's or 1745's pseudos on it. Fired a few shots and the ammo burned up before it reached the target 

Shot at a 16ish yard heavy steel fruit can and put a serious dent in it and knocked it off its very secure cactus perch. At the speed this steel is moving (335fps+) and along with the small diameter of the projectile it would without a doubt go through and through a Starling at that distance and would cream Sparrows for sure. !!

As I sit here I'm still surprised the 1636 pseudo broke. It was a flo green material I bought at Amazon/ebay, but was real good, fast stuff. Remember though I'm pretty much at the wall and have about a 530%+ elongation factor. My set up is not for target.

I think I will put another 1636 pseudo on this sling using the same pouch.

As I sit the wind is blowing and not much is showing up, so I'm heading to the market for another ice cream   ------ I actually go slingshot shooting just for an excuse to get ice cream ;- )

wll


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## wll

The first thing I did when I got back into the off this early am was to put new 1636 tubes on that sling. Feels good, 6"+ active so we will see how she does and if this breaks again ;- (

Here are the once Yellow Mini Cheapos, now done in black. The cord warped frame is quite a bit smaller then the the tube covering and it does feel better. One sling has 3050's and the other has 1842's










wll


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## robbo

is the fastest pseudo taper that you have chrony for 1/4 steel the 1636 wll


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## wll

robbo said:


> is the fastest pseudo taper that you have chrony for 1/4 steel the 1636 wll


No, I would have to go back into my post but I think it was 3050 or 1842, that were in the 335fps ish range I believe ... both were pretty close. 1636 was in the 307 -315fps ish range I think ... still very fast for how light it is to pull.

wll


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## wll

Going out early tomorrow morning (5:30am ish) and will probably leave before 8am for home, as it is going to be very, very hot tomorrow (106-108).

I'll be shooting looped 1636, looped 1030, and pseudo 3050 that I have set up. Doing some testing to see what I feel comfortable with on my trip in a couple of weeks. Not sure of the ammo I will be shooting but will take 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" --- all three of these tube configuration will work. looped 1636 will be fine for 5/16" and 3/8" I'm sure !!

In all probability I'll be fishing and chucking 1/4 steel where I see fit. Not going hunting per say, just messing around. The one thing I don't want to do is bring any attention to myself. Small slingshot,with thin tubes and small ball can very well go under the radar. I may just take two slings and extra tube sets. Will put sling stuff in a small soft cooler and have some blue frozen ice blocks to keep the elastic cool.

Hope to have fun testing early tomorrow..

wll


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## robbo

wll said:


> Going out early tomorrow morning (5:30am ish) and will probably leave before 8am for home, as it is going to be very, very hot tomorrow (106-108).
> 
> I'll be shooting looped 1636, looped 1030, and pseudo 3050 that I have set up. Doing some testing to see what I feel comfortable with on my trip in a couple of weeks. Not sure of the ammo I will be shooting but will take 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8" --- all three of these tube configuration will work. looped 1636 will be fine for 5/16" and 3/8" I'm sure !!
> 
> In all probability I'll be fishing and chucking 1/4 steel where I see fit. Not going hunting per say, just messing around. The one thing I don't want to do is bring any attention to myself. Small slingshot,with thin tubes and small ball can very well go under the radar. I may just take two slings and extra tube sets. Will put sling stuff in a small soft cooler and have some blue frozen ice blocks to keep the elastic cool.
> 
> Hope to have fun testing early tomorrow..
> 
> wll


g,day wll have you tried the straight pseudo 1030 into 3050 just curious mate


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## wll

Out here in my spot and it is a beautiful morning the sun is just starting to come up, complete solitude not a sound. I'm looking over the junk pile which was once a yard and off in the distance the desert is beautiful. Have not seen anything not even any rabbits out the clearing. Shot some 1/4" steel at objects in the yard and were smacking them, was using loop 1030 tubes nothing has changed, those tubes send out the 1/4" very quickly.

I brought out my other sling with pseudo 3050's and of course the 1/4" was a bullet but harder to pull back and with more finger slap on the return of the rubber.

I then took out a small Cheapo with looped 1636 tubes. So far the 1636 looped tubes are very very hard to beat being that they're very fast and assembling a looped tube set up is very easy and faster then a pseudo tube set (just like the looped 1030's). The issue with the 1636's is they are over kill for 1/4" steel and much better suited for 5/16" and 3/8" steel. So far the looped 1030 tubes are extremely nice for 1/4" yet still do a good job on 5/16" ball.

As I had been writing the sun is coming up and still have not heard a sound, there are no birds in the trees have not seen any rabbits or ground squirrels ----- absolute solitude. As quick as you can say "Hop Scotch" a light breeze kicks up, it feels great, yet still absolutely no sign of life. The air is filled with smoke because of the huge Lake fire and roads are blocked off with evacuation signs all over. I'm sure the desert life is on alert with the smell of the smoke and maybe the reason for the absence of desert life.

Here is pic of the sling I'm using with a background of the beautiful side yard grounds 










I high tailed down to my other spot which is an old burnt out building and being that it's flat black with a sun against it I can see with a steel flying.

I'm shooting pretty good at about the 32 yd area, I don't have too much time as I have to get back to work. I shall be out here again tomorrow in the morning shooting single 3050's to see how they fly with 1/4" steel and 5/16" steel.

wll


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## wll

Here is a pic of the two Gen3 Cheapo slings that are using single tubed 3050 that I will be testing tomorrow. This is some older 3050 that I'm trying to use up, if it doesn't cut the mustard I will change to my new stuff from Slingshooting.com that is very high quality. The pouch is a Slingshooting 48mm x15mm x 8mm pouch, a good all around "Small Ball" pouch

Single tubes are so easy to make with my jig, I can whip them up in just a few minutes. The Chinese tying ribbon really makes things easy and fast and the fact that the tube clamps are about 6" high off the base makes the wrapping procedure very, very quick. I really want to see how this single does with 5/16" steel ;- ) No chronographing just shooting at a known 32 yards out and watching the flight of the ball and seeing if I'm happy with it.










wll


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## wll

Leave the office after a morning filled with meetings and then went to my 2nd spot cause I'm able to watch the ammo fly. Shot just a 3050 single and boy did they move, I shot 1/4", 5/16" and 3/8". The slowest as you can imagine was the 3/8" but it still was very doable. The 5/16th flew very very fast and the 1/4", well they were on warp speed.

I will make a couple more sets to take with me on my trip and I think the only thing I'm gonna take are the Gen3 Cheapos, two of them with single 3050's and one with looped 1030's. I will take extra tube sets just in case.

I then went to my first morning spot, and shot a little there, I did not intend to chrono, but those 1/4" were flying fast and so were the 5/16" I'm applying a small amount of Chap Stick to stop the elastic from binding on the forks and so far no problems.

I will be out tomorrow morning, I may chronograph, not sure

*WAIT !!*

I get back to my car and the sky is pretty much overcast because of the fires and the rain --- I say to myself what the heck, I pull out the chronograph and fire a few 1/4" and a couple 5/16" --- I fell on the desert floor in amazement ----

With the 1/4" steel I got three readings 305fps, 307fps, and 302fps. With the 5/16" I got 285fps and 287fps (as usual, 6"+ active length, 32.5" draw, on this set up a Slingshooting.com 48mm x 15mm x 8mm Micro Fiber Pouch)---- Pic of the sling I used today below:










Why am I playing around with anything else ? ------ One good reason is looped 1030's are much easier to pull. Single 3050's is a bit of a chore, it is like pulling looped 1636's, and with a small pouch your fingers better be in good shape. I might add 3050 tubes are a bit louder than the thinner tubes (1030,1636, 2040), probably because of the larger ID and wall slapping. Pseudos are barn burners but take a while to make and wear out faster than singles or looped. There is a point where you got to say "This works for me" !

I'm very happy I chronographed the 3050's this afternoon. Yes, I will make a couple more sets for my trip 

wll


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## KawKan

Great post, wll!

You are a fountain of information on "exotic" tubes!


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## wll

Another peaceful morning on the desert floor. I have the Gen 3 Cheapo with 3050 tubes today. I'm thinking about the velocities I was getting yesterday and how great that was.

In my rear pocket right now are a small handful of 5/16" and 3/8" steel balls, I'm pretty uncomfortable right now as I'm sitting on this hard patio chair that is halfway broken down, the balls are trying to penetrate my butt !! I brought the 5/16" and 3/8" today to see how they fly at my other location once the sun comes up.

The sun is just starting to appear, a bright orange flickering ball under the clouds and it is gorgeous -- there's something about the solitude, the emptiness and what seems like the forever expansion of mother earth till it joins the horizon on a desert floor that is awe inspiring.

As I sit here, I see no signs of life, the rabbits that I was seeing playing in the open field are gone, the few ground squirrels that were around have disappeared. Maybe the coyotes have come in at the dead of night and eaten my entertainment !

I b-line to my other shooting spot, fire off a few at a lasered 34.5 yards with the 5/16" and the 3/8" and they flew just great, as straight as you can expect a slingshot to shoot at that yardage, were they an absolute tight rope -- no, were they a softball -- heck no. They were darn much on a straight line even at the 34+ yard marker, I was extremely happy with their performance --- if what I was aiming at was a Pigeon, Rabbit, Starling, etc, he would be a goner.

This set up with the single 3050 tubes and all three sizes of "Small Ball" is a real keeper. If I was to JUST shoot 1/4" I would opt for the looped 1030 because it is easy pulling, but to have the option to shoot any "SB", this set up is hard to beat. Pics of the fork ribbon and pouch ribbon ties on this sling below:



















Here is a pic of the shooting glasses I ALWAYS wear, notice the right lens is partially taped out as I'm right eye dominant and hold the sling in my right hand. I use my left eye for aiming. I always coat the lenses with Rain-X as it makes a HUGE difference on how clear the lenses stay with shooting. The condensation from your body heat does not fog up the glasses and keeps visability clear.










All in all it was a good day of shooting, When I got back to the office I built three more 3050 sets and put them in the frig to get ready for playing around in a couple of weeks.

wll


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## wll

It's 1:30 in the afternoon and I venture forward again deep into the bowel of the desert underbelly. I sit back down I see nothing but the shimmering of heat waves off the desert floor

Inside the love shack it is pretty nice, the whole building is made of brick and it's pretty well insulated, the slight breeze going through the ripped out doors and broken windows is very welcome besides adding a special kind of ambience.

I sit waiting for tweeties to land but there are none. There a quite a few bushes but life has gone somewhere else.

As I sit, I sweat, it is hot hot hot !

I leave, but I walk around to where some of my target spots have been and find maybe 30+ea 1/4" steel balls, I make it back to my car on my hands and knees (picture Treasure of Sierra Madre) dying of thirst. I slowly put 16oz of cool water down the hatch.

I'm ready for home and a shower ..... You have not heard the last of me.

wll


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