# A missed chance in Afghanistan



## Pebble Shooter

Saigon 1975, anyone? Apparently USD 3 trillion down the drain quite literally over 20 years....O.M.G, all that taxpayer money gone to waste for nothing. 

Unbelievable how history can repeat itself, I hate to think of what lies down the road in terms of terrorism, etc. for all of us. Here in Europe, they're already expecting huge flows of refugees from Afghanistan, doubtlessly with some less desirable elements embedded among them: we already have far to many of that breed since ex-G.D.R "comrade" Angela Merkel foolishly opened the gates wide to 1 million migrants with unknown backgrounds back in September 2015.

In my view, here is the only "language" the Taliban fanatics and people of their sort understand:


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## Henry the Hermit

Let's all tread lightly here, please. Political discussions can become contentious.


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## Reed Lukens

A good friend of mine was a gunner on a helicopter in 75, the most dangerous job in the military. I don't remember what he said the life expectancy of a gunner was, but everyone shoots the gunner first... He's got more purple hearts then I ever imagined


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## High Desert Flipper

While trying to avoid pushing political buttons or stepping on a landmine, I will agree that this is both a waste and a shame. As was Saigon and several others in between. And while not seeking to debate or armchair quaterback it here, I will just say there has to be a better way and we should figure it out before throwing a lot of young lives and a ton of money at again at some point in the future. I doubt anyone of any political persuasion is good with losing lots of each for results like these. And God bless those that gave their all for it as it happened.


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## Alfred E.M.

_*No disrespect to you Henry, but it's really hard to tread lightly when it's happening in real time before our eyes. Workers seldom destroy a business, it's usually bad management. Same in politics - soldiers do their job, but leaders make bad decisions ... whether it's Bush acting on bad intel, Merkel's virtue signaling, or President Train Wreck hiding out on life support at an extended Camp David vacation. Stay real.*_


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## Sean Khan

Top pic... Taliban prisoner in Pakistani jail.

Bottom pic... same guy now new President of Afghanistan.
*
AWKWARD!*


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## Pebble Shooter

Latest wonderful news from the impending stone age (Taliban rule) according to the German "Frankfurter Allgemeine" newspaper at 12.21 CET: (quote) "Taliban fighters reportedly began collecting weapons from civilians in Kabul. People no longer needed these weapons for their personal protection, a Taliban representative told the Reuters news agency. "We understand that people kept the weapons for their personal safety. Now they can feel safe. We are not here to harm innocent civilians," the representative continued." Yeah, right, I believe every word he says, hmm.


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## Pebble Shooter

It gets worse...have a look at this: a "Kabul moment". 




Frightening.


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## Henry the Hermit

Alfred E.M. said:


> _*No disrespect to you Henry, but it's really hard to tread lightly when it's happening in real time before our eyes. Workers seldom destroy a business, it's usually bad management. Same in politics - soldiers do their job, but leaders make bad decisions ... whether it's Bush acting on bad intel, Merkel's virtue signaling, or President Train Wreck hiding out on life support at an extended Camp David vacation. Stay real.*_


I understand that, and have my own opinion about what our government is doing, but there are literally thousands of websites where we can vent and argue about politics. SSF is not a good place to do that. Let's all concentrate on our love of slingshots, and leave politics for more appropriate sites.


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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

I know we are not supposed to post on politics but I don't consider what I am about to post as politics. I consider it an insight into primate behavior.

What was the first thing they did when they got Kabul? They went to the amusement park. I am horrified and amused in equal measure.






Where did I see this before.... looks familiar.... oh yes... here:






I want to give these guys some slingshots and ammo. Consider it me researching human behavior. Just to see who loses an eye first.


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## Valery

Sean Khan said:


> I want to give these guys some slingshots and ammo. Consider it me researching human behavior. Just to see who loses an eye first.


The Pakistani government supplied the Taliban with weapons and money for the same reasons, perhaps?


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## Sean Khan

Valery said:


> The Pakistani government supplied the Taliban with weapons and money for the same reasons, perhaps?


Taliban are using NATO weapons in many cases. Not the kind we make or use. You can guess where _those_ came from. It is well documented.

As for giving them money... Pakistan is broke. As always. We ain't got no money.

Did we help them with their war strategy??? To shut down a whole country in days is not a small thing after all.

All I will say is ... we are a very curious people.

Also, August 15, will now always be remembered as the "Fall of Kabul Day"... not India's Independence Day.


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## SteveJ

If I said what I thought of the talibuns and the whole thing I would be immediately banned, my disgust with them is overwhelming


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## Henry the Hermit

SteveJ said:


> If I said what I thought of the talibuns and the whole thing I would be immediately banned, my disgust with them is overwhelming


Most of us, including me, are exercising an admirable restraint in this discussion. Thanks to everyone.


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## High Desert Flipper

Henry the Hermit said:


> Most of us, including me, are exercising an admirable restraint in this discussion. Thanks to everyone.


I'm about ready for another peanut butter sandwich.


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## Henry the Hermit

High Desert Flipper said:


> I'm about ready for another peanut butter sandwich.


OMG! We don't need that kind of inflammatory discussion.


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## Sean Khan

Here is something I sort of expected to happen....

Trade with Afghanistan just shot up. And it's increasing. Reason?

One of the reasons for slowdown in cargo movement, according to drivers of trucks, was that Afghan police and transport ministry officials posted on the Afghan side demanded between 10,000 and 25,000 "Afghanis" (their unit of currency) from drivers to let their trucks return to Pakistan. 

Basically, they used to hold our trucks hostage. Only after paying a bribe could we get our trucks back.

After the Taliban takeover, according to customs, no such demands were reported.


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## skarrd

peanut butter and jelly sandwich


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## Pebble Shooter

It's back to what it originally was, it seems: ‘They seem to like hitting women’: Violence and desperation as Afghans try to flee country. I somehow have a feeling that we'll all be dealing with those guys again sometime in the relatively near future - possibly on home ground too. Very sad.


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## Sean Khan

BTW, did you notice how the American planes are full of men. Men who left their women to fend for themselves, instead of staying behind to protect them.

The British planes, on the other hand, are taking women and children and families.

Weird.



Pebble Shooter said:


> somehow have a feeling that we'll all be


Who is "we"???

USA isn't coming back. I can guarantee that.


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## Pebble Shooter

I mean "we " in the sense of Western potential exposure to future terrorist attacks, because of Afghanistan being a perfect mountainous hiding and training place for such people before they venture abroad.It's not as though the Taliban, brainwashed at madrassas in Pakistan, are just going to go back to everyday life in their own country without "exporting" their militant ideology. The US and Europe may indeed never again send troops on the ground, but the West, as well as Russia and China, has other very effective military technology and intelligence gathering capability to keep things under control more or less - not to mention strict economic sanctions that seem to be working reasonably well with regard to Iran. I just read that most of Afghanistan's gold reserves and assets are stashed away abroad somewhere: empty state coffers are bad news for any incoming new government facing a starving population. China will do business with the Taliban, but they will certainly not do them any favors whatsoever. The only hope is that many Afghans have had a "taste" of Western freedom and way of life, and that this may eventually lead them to boot out the Taliban once the impending return to the "middle ages" becomes unbearable for the population at large. Let's see what comes next.


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## Sean Khan

Pebble Shooter said:


> brainwashed at madrassas in Pakistan


This nonsense has been repeated for so long and so often, even I am starting to believe it.  (I am being sarcastic here)

These guys don't need any help from us in the fanaticism department, believe me.



Pebble Shooter said:


> are just going to go back to everyday life in their own country without "exporting" their militant ideology.


They say they will never export their ideology. Maybe they mean it this time... maybe not. But it'll be much harder this time.

Ask me why.



Pebble Shooter said:


> Russia and China, has other very effective military technology


I know. We use the same tech.



Pebble Shooter said:


> strict economic sanctions


Afghanistan is landlocked. EVERYTHING they have has to come across the border from Pakistan.

A chicken dinner costs a few Rupees here. In Afghanistan, that same chicken dinner costs over a thousand Rupees.

All we have to do is close off the border for a week. They do a dance and then they settle down. What choice do they have?



Pebble Shooter said:


> I just read that most of Afghanistan's gold reserves and assets are stashed away abroad somewhere:


According to Russian news:

*The Russian embassy in Kabul had on Monday said that Ghani fled the country with four cars and a helicopter full of cash and had to leave some money behind as it would not all fit in.

“As for the collapse of the (outgoing) regime, it is most eloquently characterised by the way Ghani fled Afghanistan,” Nikita Ishchenko, a spokesman for the Russian embassy in Kabul, was quoted as saying by RIA news agency.

“Four cars were full of money, they tried to stuff another part of the money into a helicopter, but not all of it fit. And some of the money was left lying on the tarmac,” he was quoted as saying.*

According to our sources, he landed in Dubai with $169 million (in US currency).

20 tons of Afghan gold reserves are already on American soil. You are correct.



Pebble Shooter said:


> China will do business with the Taliban, but they will certainly not do them any favors whatsoever.


Yes. Correct.



Pebble Shooter said:


> The only hope is that many Afghans have had a "taste" of Western freedom and way of life, and that this may eventually lead them to boot out the Taliban once the impending return to the "middle ages" becomes unbearable for the population at large.


Never going to happen. No Afghan is going to fight for their country. They would rather leave their wives, mothers and sisters behind and try and get on a plane out of there.

America pumped in over *$2 TRILLION *to help them grow a spine. That didn't work. What's going to work? $200 trillion? Does the world even have that much money?


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## SJAaz

skarrd said:


> peanut butter and jelly sandwich


You guys ever mix honey and maple syrup in with peanut butter? Spread it on a slab of home made sour dough bread.


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## Sean Khan

SJAaz said:


> You guys ever mix honey and maple syrup


What's maple syrup?

Edit: Found it. Obviously imported. Way too over-priced.


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## High Desert Flipper

SJAaz said:


> You guys ever mix honey and maple syrup in with peanut butter? Spread it on a slab of home made sour dough bread.


Never tried it but it sounds fantastic. We love to drizzle honey inside sopapillas out in these parts.


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## Pebble Shooter

Some relevant facts regarding madrassas:





__





- EXTREMIST MADRASSAS, GHOST SCHOOLS, AND U.S. AID TO PAKISTAN: ARE WE MAKING THE GRADE ON THE 9/11 COMMISSION REPORT CARD?






www.govinfo.gov





HEARING before the SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS of the COMMITTEE ON OVERSIGHT AND GOVERNMENT REFORM HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES ONE HUNDRED TENTH CONGRESS FIRST SESSION - *MAY 9, 2007 *, Serial No. 110-17.

Extract (Quote):

“Mr. Tierney. Last month, I led a congressional delegation to Pakistan and Afghanistan with subcommittee members Betty McCollum and Patrick McHenry, as well as the Education and Labor Chairman George Miller. In Afghanistan, senior United States, NATO, and *Afghan military officials told us of their forces being continually attacked by Taliban foes who plan and stage their insurgent operations in Pakistan before pouring across the border to kill our troops*.But if we think these Pakistani breeding grounds of terror only threaten Afghanistan, we need to think again. The 2005 London subway terrorist bombings involved at least one British national trained in a Pakistani madrassa. And just last week terrorists were convicted in the United Kingdom in a conspiracy to conduct an attack there with fertilizer-based bombs. *Five of the seven men tried attended either madrassas or training camps in Pakistan. *Yet, these extremist madrassas remain open for business.”

Ouch. Food for thought...hmm. I am fearful of what lies ahead now.


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## Sean Khan

Righttttt.....



Pebble Shooter said:


> and *Afghan military officials told us*


The same *Afghan military officials *who gave all their weapons to the taliban the moment they showed up? 🤣

Do you see what went wrong? If you (I mean American decision makers) act on made-up info, OF COURSE you are going to lose the war (which is EXACTLY what happened).

Afghan "military officials" made up all kinds of stories to make themselves look less incompetent*.*

And the Americans ..... well these "reports" kept the military-industrial complex ticking along, so....

Even the most Foxnewsy American can now see the public was lied to over and over.

Having said that, I fail to understand what you are worried about. It's not like Switzerland is going to be affected by any of this.


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## High Desert Flipper

I think the simple bagel is highly under rated as a vehicle for peanut butter. Sometimes simple is best. Toasted whole wheat of course, still warm enough to melt that peanut butter.....


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## Sean Khan

Sean Khan said:


> I fail to understand what you are worried about.





High Desert Flipper said:


> I think the simple bagel


Yeah.... Go eat a bagel. A bagel a day keeps the taliban away. 

All them worries wuz just low blood sugar.


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## Pebble Shooter

Well, unfortunately we are affected as a neutral country. There are presently over 15,000 Afghan asylum seekers in Switzerland, most of them badly educated, dependent on social welfare, and culturally incompatible with our Christian society based on individual freedoms where women have equal rights, and can dress as they please. Doubtlessly there are more Afghan refugees on the way to Europe in the months ahead, and we're likely to get some of them whether we like it or not. Last but not least, terrorist attacks in other European countries or the US do not leave us indifferent either. We all stand together.


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## Sean Khan

Pebble Shooter said:


> There are presently over 15,000 Afghan asylum seekers in Switzerland


I didn't know that.

We have 3-4 million Afghan refugees in Pakistan. And we regret taking them in every second of every minute of every day. We never had suicide bombings before they showed up. We never had prostitution, mob violence, kidnappings, crime, etc, at such levels before THEY showed up. We didn't have "Kalashnikov Culture" before they showed up.

If you take them in, you are done.

America messed it all up. Let THEM take all these Afghans. They are a huge country and they already have many weirdos walking the streets. A few more will make no difference to them.

Maybe they'll like peanut butter... maybe it'll calm them down.



Pebble Shooter said:


> most of them badly educated


They are not badly educated. They are ZERO educated.



Pebble Shooter said:


> incompatible with our Christian society



Sir... they are also incompatible with Muslim society.

*Do you see any Muslim majority country lining up to take them in????*

America even asked Bangladesh (of all people... really scraping the bottom of the barrel here) to take them in temporarily two days ago. They refused point blank.

We aren't letting them in....









Afghanistan: Pakistan fences off from Afghan refugees


Islamabad says it cannot accept any more Afghans fleeing Taliban rule, despite UN pleas.



www.bbc.com







Pebble Shooter said:


> terrorist attacks in other European countries or the US do not leave us indifferent either. We all stand together.


The worst terror attack in Europe was in Norway. Killed 75 kids. Done by a white Christian Freemason dude.

So there is that.


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## Sean Khan

Couldn't sleep (it's 4:30 am)... found this video youtube surfing...






Talk about running your country into the ground.... my gawd.


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## Sean Khan

There was this guy who went "wall.. wall... wall... I wanna build a wall..."... but the poor fellow never got his wall. I forget his name....

But WE were listening and said "what a splendid idea!" and WE actually made the wall.

Okay.. it's a fence. But it's got forts at regular intervals, armed patrols, drone over-flights and camera, etc.

We have cut off all of Afghanistan... isolated them... boxed them in. Now they can't walk in like they could before.


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## Alfred E.M.

_*APPLE BUTTER! No one has mentioned delicious apple butter. Great by itself on toast or slathered on top of peanut butter on toast. 
Aren't peanuts actually beans?*_


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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

Brilliant...... Just brilliant.


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## Pebble Shooter

Back in my early school days, I remember trading mom's bland homemade cheese sandwiches with the peanut butter & jelly ones of my American friends. Good stuff. Unfortunately, here we can only obtain the smaller jars of US-made peanut butter. European peanut butter is simply not as good.We tend to find the "Planters" brand here in Switzerland.


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## 31610

Sean Khan said:


> What's maple syrup?
> 
> Edit: Found it. Obviously imported. Way too over-priced.


 well maple syrup is sap from the sugar maple tree it’s collected in the spring time before the temp gets above 0c than boiled down to a syrup. Put that stuff on pancakes it nectar of the gods dude . Lol you need to get some here Canada we maple everything 🙃


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## Alfred E.M.

*Growing up in our little suburb, we had a Skippy peanut butter factory out on highway 7. Every year, second grade elementary students took a field trip to tour the factory and at the end we were given a small jar of smooth or chunky ... to this day I prefer chunky.

Nectar indeed PB. At Xmas, my dad received gallon cans of murple syrple as gifts from salesmen ... it didn't last long at our house.*


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## spewing

Has anyone read Rudyard Kipling's Kim

Kim (novel) - Wikipedia

Looks to me like Afghanistan has been used as a world superpowers football for hundreds if not thousands of years.

I don't think anyone has successfully invaded and held the area for any length of time.



Sean Khan said:


> Couldn't sleep (it's 4:30 am)... found this video youtube surfing...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Talk about running your country into the ground.... my gawd.


So what happened between the time before 1970 and and late 1979 and the soviet invasion?

My guess is the elite were doing just fine but the uneducated majority weren't seeing any of the benefits so a communist regime took over which started a series of events fighting the proxy cold war between the world superpowers and the rest is all just history.

Im a firm believer in education being the route to sorting out a lot of the worlds problems. If the majority of Afghans were educated to high standard they would be able to take control of their own destiny.
With good education comes the ability to earn a good living, with the you can pay for medical care etc. At which point you can move forward.

Just imagine what could have happened if even only a small proportion of the money various world superpowers had spent on arms was spent on education and empowering a population to think hat it had a vested interest.










Available in 1Kg tins in the UK apparently the preppers love it

Proper Products – Proper Nutty


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## Sean Khan

Port boy said:


> well maple syrup is sap from the sugar maple tree it’s collected in the spring time before the temp gets above 0c than boiled down to a syrup. Put that stuff on pancakes it nectar of the gods dude . Lol you need to get some here Canada we maple everything 🙃


Thanks.



spewing said:


> Has anyone read Rudyard Kipling's Kim


Yep. And the sequel, written by some Indian, where he grows up and turns into a James Bond type, expert in hand to hand combat, screwing women right left and center.

Saw his cannon too, when visiting Lahore.



spewing said:


> I don't think anyone has successfully invaded and held the area for any length of time.


The Greeks did. How? By marrying the locals. That was the only way.

My DNA is Greek + Mongol + Jewish. Quite common.

I am one quarter Afghan. In fact, our family (mother's side) tried a coup attempt on the Afghan King, which failed SPECTACULARLY, which forced them to escape to the Indian Subcontinent.

If Afghanistan still had a monarchy, I would be like 10,000th removed from the throne. Not that I care. 



spewing said:


> So what happened between the time before 1970 and and late 1979 and the soviet invasion?


The guy running the show (President Daud?) asked President Zia of Pak to roll our tanks into Kabul and make Afghanistan part of Pakistan. He knew the Soviets were coming sooner or later.

We should have listened. Basically, Afghanistan was going down and everyone knew it.



spewing said:


> which started a series of events fighting the proxy cold war between the world superpowers and the rest is all just history.


Russians wanted a warm water port... Karachi. Afghanistan was just in the way. We were the real target.

We went on a crash course to make our own nukes while we kept the Russians busy in Afghanistan. Which we did... we got our own nukes. Which made the Soviets leave immediately after our first atomic test in the 1980s (the nuke was tested in China).

Nice thing was, the Americans wanted to slice Russian butt. And they gave us all the weapons to help the Afghans do that. It wouldn't have been possible without them. Reagan was a good friend.

See movie "Charlie Wilson's War".





Now we have a bigger, better, deep water port... Gawader.... and we are going to INVITE the Russians to come in (China is already here). We are just waiting for Afghanistan to settle down so we can have road and rail links all the way to Moscow and beyond.

Imagine... one day I'll be able to just drive all the way to Moscow and back.



spewing said:


> m a firm believer in education being the route to sorting out a lot of the worlds problems. If the majority of Afghans were educated to high standard they would be able to take control of their own destiny.


The first rule of communism is "educate the women". Sometimes, I regret what my country did to the Soviet Union... but then they were far too dangerous to leave alone.

Soviet Union broke up two years after they were forced to leave Afghanistan.


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> Thanks.


Can you get coconut blossom syrup in Pakistan.

Organic Dark Coconut Blossom Syrup 1000ml / 1350g – Real Food Source

I first came across it in Sri Lanka

Sorry to the North Americans but it is way way better than Maple Syrup


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## Sean Khan

spewing said:


> coconut blossom syrup


I don't know. Never came across it and I can't find it online.


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## Pebble Shooter

For those of you into chocolate spreads, check this out:









Lindt Dark Chocolate Spread 200g


Luxurious dark chocolate spread, made from the finest cocoa




www.chocolate.lindt.com


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> I don't know. Never came across it and I can't find it online.


This maybe it

Coconut Secret Coconut Nectar - Natural, Low-Glycemic Liquid Price: 5468.00 Rs


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> The Greeks did. How? By marrying the locals. That was the only way.


I thought Alexandra The Great got his arse kicked along with all subsequent visitors



Sean Khan said:


> The guy running the show (President Daud?) asked President Zia of Pak to roll our tanks into Kabul and make Afghanistan part of Pakistan. He knew the Soviets were coming sooner or later.
> 
> We should have listened. Basically, Afghanistan was going down and everyone knew it.
> 
> 
> Russians wanted a warm water port... Karachi. Afghanistan was just in the way. We were the real target.


I didn't know that and or it didn't filter through the western narative



Sean Khan said:


> Now we have a bigger, better, deep water port... Gawader.... and we are going to INVITE the Russians to come in (China is already here). We are just waiting for Afghanistan to settle down so we can have road and rail links all the way to Moscow and beyond.
> 
> Imagine... one day I'll be able to just drive all the way to Moscow and back.


Im too young to have managed the original hippy trail to the India / the far east

By the time I was old enough I just flew over the top of that part of the world straight to East Asia and the surf

Even my last jaunt around South East Asia i only got as far as Sri Lanka

If the "New Silk Road" gets built before I'm to old I would love to overland through the middle east and on ultimately to Indonesia either by motorbike or 4X4.
I know it won't actually be a road as such (not a 6 lane highway) more of an overall infrastructure but it will bring people together and hopefully if everyone is talking and trading with each other they will be less invested in shooting each other.


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## Valery

Sean Khan said:


> The first rule of communism is "educate the women". Sometimes, I regret what my country did to the Soviet Union... but then they were far too dangerous to leave alone.
> 
> Soviet Union broke up two years after they were forced to leave Afghanistan.


Do not make me laugh! I know the history of my country better than any person present at the forum. The Soviet Union was doomed at the moment of its birth, simply because the socialist economy could not be efficient. And it would have collapsed back in the 70s, but there was a global energy crisis, oil and gas supplies made it possible to hold out for another 20 years. And modern Russia also lives at the expense of a resource-based economy, wasting resources mediocrely to support the regimes of Assad, Maduro and the like. I'm afraid the end of this country is not far off either.


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## Tombo

All these replies and nobody has mentioned Nutella?


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## Sean Khan

spewing said:


> I thought Alexandra The Great got his arse kicked along with all subsequent visitors


Alexandra got butt kicked and then did some kicking in return. All this while his men were leaving their DNA all over the place. And many stayed back.

Afghanistan has a reputation as the "Graveyard of Empires".... it's not because of Afghanistan itself... anyone can walk all over Afghanistan. It's when they get ideas and try to launch an attack into Pakistan (or the Indian Subcontinent at the time), is when things start going really bad for them. The Hindu-Kush, Karakoram, Himalaya mountain chain is a death trap.



spewing said:


> I didn't know that and or it didn't filter through the western narative


Thanks to climate change and nuclear ice-breakers, Russia isn't all that dependent on a warm water port any more. But it was something they wanted since Peter the Great was in-charge. And they would still like to have one. And we will let them share ours.

Back then, we were pretty sure, we were next on their hit list. 

There are two Pakistans. One is the normal everyday Pakistan... looks and acts kind of dumb and harmless. The other has nuclear teeth and nuclear claws and it likes tearing into flesh. You almost never see the other one. But it's there, under the skin and it reacts badly to threats.



spewing said:


> I know it won't actually be a road as such (not a 6 lane highway)


Oh it'll be a 6 lane or better. This is the Belt and Road we are talking of. It's already being built here. Look up "CPEC motorways" if you are curious. (CPEC = China Pak Economic Corridor.... the first part of China's Belt and Road project)



Valery said:


> The Soviet Union was doomed at the moment of its birth, simply because the socialist economy could not be efficient.


We know that. It had deep fault lines. But it was not dying until the final little tap pushed it off the cliff. We know it had been standing on the edge for a long time.



Valery said:


> I'm afraid the end of this country is not far off either.


We (China and Pakistan) will do our best not to let that happen. The Belt and Road needs Russia. We will make sure you thrive, not just survive. Give us ten years.


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## Sean Khan

spewing said:


> This maybe it
> 
> Coconut Secret Coconut Nectar - Natural, Low-Glycemic Liquid Price: 5468.00 Rs


Five and a half thousand Rupees is way overpriced..... but yes, I think that is the droid you are looking for.


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## Pebble Shooter

Maple butter is really nice too.


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## Valery

Sean Khan said:


> We (China and Pakistan) will do our best not to let that happen. The Belt and Road needs Russia. We will make sure you thrive, not just survive. Give us ten years.


The Russian authorities have long worn about the idea of a bipolar world. Maybe this will happen, only without Russia. Theoretically, a bipolar model, the United States and China, is possible, while Russia will become a raw material appendage of China, nothing more. But this is if China has enough strength, which I personally doubt very much. And if Pakistan is such a strong geopolitical player, why hasn't it been able to solve the Kashmir problem in 70 years, and at the same time has lost the territory of Bangladesh? Again, don't make me laugh.


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> There are two Pakistans. One is the normal everyday Pakistan... looks and acts kind of dumb and harmless. The other has nuclear teeth and nuclear claws and it likes tearing into flesh. You almost never see the other one. But it's there, under the skin and it reacts badly to threats.


"Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far"

Big Stick ideology - Wikipedia


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## Sean Khan

Valery said:


> while Russia will become a raw material appendage of China, nothing more.


Man.... you need to lighten up....



Valery said:


> if China has enough strength, which I personally doubt very much


China's strength is increasing exponentially. Compare them to what they were only ten years earlier. It's shocking.



Valery said:


> if Pakistan is such a strong geopolitical player, why hasn't it been able to solve the Kashmir problem in 70 years


We have captured half of Kashmir. It is ours. We will get the other half too at some point. There is no hurry and we are a patient people.

We were patient with Afghanistan too, no? 20 years of putting up with American nonsense? And now we have Afghanistan.



Valery said:


> has lost the territory of Bangladesh


We lost Bangladesh because the Bangali people turned on us .. it was a war against our own people and we couldn't get to the place fast enough because we were separated by a thousand miles of Indian territory. These were impossible conditions.

If your own people turn on you, there isn't much you can do about it. You can certainly destroy a place but you can no longer keep it.

But we evolve and learn. And we have learnt much.

The Soviet Union lost a far larger territory. AND they had nukes. So it happens to the best of us.



Valery said:


> Again, don't make me laugh.


Is America laughing right now???


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## Valery

Sean Khan said:


> Man.... you need to lighten up....


Man ... You need to moderate your ambitions .... 
I live in Russia, and I know about the problems in the country not by hearsay. Russia has sunk to the position of a third world country, but with nuclear weapons. Our authorities have begun to flirt with the Taliban, and this will create very serious problems in the near future. Thanks to the 20-year respite that the Americans gave us, for a long time we had no problems with the penetration of radical ideas, the spread of drugs and weapons from Afghanistan through Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Now the Taliban have a wide field for activity, and it should be remembered that they see the Islamic Emirate as a project that goes far beyond the borders of Afghanistan. Neither we nor Europe have to wait for anything good.
Do Americans laugh? Never mind, the US has fulfilled its missions in Afghanistan in full.


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## Sean Khan

Valery said:


> You need to moderate your ambitions ....


I do not have any ambitions. I only have hope and faith.



Valery said:


> Our authorities have begun to flirt with the Taliban, and this will create very serious problems in the near future. ..... Now the Taliban have a wide field for activity, and it should be remembered that they see the Islamic Emirate as a project that goes far beyond the borders of Afghanistan. Neither we nor Europe have to wait for anything good.


If they turn nasty.. I said IF and I am not convinced they will..... We will be the very first people they will try to bite.

You will have plenty of warning.



Valery said:


> Do Americans laugh?


What....????



Valery said:


> the US has fulfilled its missions in Afghanistan in full.


Even the Americans don't know what they were doing there (I have not been able to get a straight answer to this question). There is no way YOU would know if they fulfilled some mission or not.


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## spewing

Valery said:


> I live in Russia, and I know about the problems in the country not by hearsay. Russia has sunk to the position of a third world country, but with nuclear weapons. Our authorities have begun to flirt with the Taliban, and this will create very serious problems in the near future. Thanks to the 20-year respite that the Americans gave us, for a long time we had no problems with the penetration of radical ideas, the spread of drugs and weapons from Afghanistan through Turkmenistan, Kyrgyzstan, Uzbekistan and Tajikistan. Now the Taliban have a wide field for activity, and it should be remembered that they see the Islamic Emirate as a project that goes far beyond the borders of Afghanistan. Neither we nor Europe have to wait for anything good.
> Do Americans laugh? Never mind, the US has fulfilled its missions in Afghanistan in full.


Always good to see another geopolitical view from outside my normal sphere of information, or should i just say MSM disinformation.

The last Russians I had any dealings with saw Russia as a Pacific nation despite coming from Moscow which I found quite surprising. They also considered the UK to be a bigger threat to Russia than the USA because it was closer which also came as a surprise. Especially if you consider yourself to be a Pacific nation.

I still work on the basis that the more different people talk to each other and try and understand their opposite opinions the more likely we are all to understand each other and get on together.


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## Valery

spewing said:


> I still work on the basis that the more different people talk to each other and try and understand their opposite opinions the more likely we are all to understand each other and get on together.


Now you have the opportunity to talk with a Russian who has a sober assessment of what is happening around him and whose brain is not clouded by propaganda.


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## SJAaz

Valery...Yes, I am 76 years old and in all that time there wasn't a day go by that someone didn't have their thumb on your people. You are a tough tough bunch and I wish you all peace and prosperity.


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## Sean Khan

Valery said:


> Now you have the opportunity to talk with a Russian who has a sober assessment of what is happening around him and whose brain is not clouded by propaganda.


I guess you don't think much of Putin? What do average Russians think of Putin?


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## spewing

Valery said:


> Now you have the opportunity to talk with a Russian who has a sober assessment of what is happening around him and whose brain is not clouded by propaganda.


Thats what I found most fascinating about your posts.
The last Russians i had dealings with were young military form military families that had been stationed all over. Almost certainly indoctrinated with an agenda.

We did however get quite spectacularly drunk together. 

Man, Russians can drink.......


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## Valery

Sean Khan said:


> What do average Russians think of Putin?


What can you think of a person who, in 20 years in power, has not fulfilled a single promise given to the nation?


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## Valery

spewing said:


> Man, Russians can drink.......


In this sport, we are world champions!


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## Sean Khan

Valery said:


> What can you think of a person who, in 20 years in power, has not fulfilled a single promise given to the nation?


I don't know what promises he made.... I.. as an outsider... have a good impression of him. Because America hates him.

If America hates you, you must be doing something right. 🤣


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## spewing

Valery said:


> What can you think of a person who, in 20 years in power, has not fulfilled a single promise given to the nation?


Sounds like pretty much every politician, any time, anywhere


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> If America hates you, you must be doing something right. 🤣


Your enemies enemy is not necessarily your friend


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## Valery

Sean Khan said:


> Because America hates him. If America hates you, you must be doing something right.


I am from Russia, for the second year I have been communicating with wonderful people at the American forum. Americans, Europeans, solid NATO!  Nobody said "Hey Russian, what the devil are you doing here?" Are these people my enemies? No, no and NO! If idiots politicians are not able to agree among themselves, then normal people will always be able to find a common language.


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## Sean Khan

I don't consider America an enemy... I consider it confused.

Sometimes they snap out of their confusion and sometimes... they just don't.



Valery said:


> Nobody said "Hey Russian, what the devil are you doing here?"


Since the Cold War they have been conditioned to be nice to you.

I have never met an American. I wonder how polite I will find them? I am guessing they'll be quite normal... like most people anywhere.

I can get along with anyone who doesn't eat cow-dung.


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## Pebble Shooter

What I would really like to see as a European is strong political, economic, and military cooperation between Germany and Russia, as they share a similar outlook. Moreover, there are still too many old school politicians in Washington who have yet to realize that the Soviet Union is history, and that the Cold War ended decades ago: please trash that dusty old propaganda at last. Indeed, those in the "swamp" might be wise consider working closely with Russia too in order to be ready for the new emerging superpower China, instead of continuously pointing the "bad Russians" finger all the time. I hate to say it, but it seems to me that the days of America as a sole deciding superpower are rapidly coming to an end. Astronomical debts linked to costly wars, unlimited quantitative easing by the Fed, rising inflation in a context of ongoing de-industrialization and a decaying infrastructure, and excessive dependence on foreign made consumer goods do no bode well: the US Dollar as a global reserve currency is on a very slippery slope these days. Where Biden is going to find the huge sums for his multiple "new deal" type plans is a mystery to me. All this explains why someone had to pull the plug in Afghanistan after almost USD 2 trillion spent over 20 years: the sucking sound of money going through the plughole was becoming unbearable. Europe is not in much better overall shape, with only Germany keeping the flawed EU project above water. The bottom line is that we all need to work together to keep China more or less under control, and to prevent Islam and related terrorism from spreading to our countries. 

Back to my honey sandwich...


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## Sandstorm

You know I haven’t had one since I was about four, but from what I remember, banana boats are freaking amazing.


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## High Desert Flipper

Valery said:


> In this sport, we are world champions!


I think many countries / officials would like to go for the gold on this one.


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## skarrd

SJAaz said:


> You guys ever mix honey and maple syrup in with peanut butter? Spread it on a slab of home made sour dough bread.


Oh Yeah,not on sour dough,,,,,yet


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## Valery

Pebble Shooter said:


> What I would really like to see as a European is strong political, economic, and military cooperation between Germany and Russia, as they share a similar outlook.


Unfortunately, this is not possible under the current Russian administration.


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## Sean Khan

Hello hi... woke up and had my usual dumpling/samosa breakfast. 

No peanut butter, you might notice. Just chicken dumplings.









So what happen while I was sleeping???


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## Sean Khan

Valery said:


> this is not possible under the current Russian administration.


I agree. Russia is allergic to NATO.

Right now in Afghanistan, only the Pakistani, Russian and Chinese embassies are open and working. That gives you an idea about what direction their foreign policy is going in.



Pebble Shooter said:


> All this explains why someone had to pull the plug in Afghanistan after almost USD 2 trillion spent over 20 years: the sucking sound of money going through the plughole was becoming unbearable.


America was welcome to stick around for another 21 years. I would have loved to see how that would turn out.

I'm not sure how aware people are of the freight train that is coming for the international banking system. Heard of the Digital Yuan? It will be used for international payments eventually. That will effectively put the US Dollar into the ground.



Pebble Shooter said:


> The bottom line is that we all need to work together to keep China more or less under control, and to prevent Islam and related terrorism from spreading to our countries.


Islam is the fastest growing religion on earth. "Preventing" it is pointless.

Preventing terrorism, on the other hand, is another thing. And preventing China, is something on a whole other level.

In my opinion, you can only do one thing out of the two... either fight terror or fight China. You don't have the resources or the will to fight both. America sure doesn't ("war on terror" ended this Sunday). And without America, Europe is nothing.

I hope it works out for you.



Pebble Shooter said:


> it seems to me that the days of America as a sole deciding superpower are rapidly coming to an end.


Those days ended like 5 years ago. America these days is not *acting*.... they are* reacting*.


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## spewing

Its the weekend so Waffles with coconut syrup and yogurt with a Vietnamese coffee











Geopolitics will have to wait I'm taking my grandson surfing


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## spewing

Greece erects fence at Turkey border amid warnings of Afghan migrant surge


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## Sean Khan

Well Greece has every right to protect it's border....

I often frequent a Pakistan military forum and we get all sorts there.... according to Turkish members, these Afghan fellows show up at their Iranian border like magic.

It seems that when the Afghans cross into Iran, Iran puts them in trucks and transports them to the Turkish border.

Cute, these Iranians.

Turkey built a wall too to try and keep them out. Everyone is building walls just to keep Afghans out. Why don't Afghans stay in Afghanistan and fix their country???


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## Pebble Shooter

Where's our best man? We need him urgently in Afghanistan:


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## treefork




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## treefork




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## treefork




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## Sean Khan

126 Afghans arrested and sent to Afghanistan for burning Pak flag and rioting. Thankless people... we feed them and... Oh well... let's see how they enjoy taliban life.










So much energy, so much anger .... if they had spent a fraction of this energy NOT surrendering... How is throwing down your weapons and surrendering in 2 seconds OUR fault??? 🤣

Btw, I would have burnt that flag too... the moon is facing the wrong way... 

Meanwhile in Canada... gay Afghans protest against Pakistan.


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> 126 Afghans arrested and sent to Afghanistan for burning Pak flag and rioting. Thankless people... we feed them and... Oh well... let's see how they enjoy taliban life.


I just don't get it

Over the years the UK has ben a safe haven for migrants from all over the world.

Im going to refrain from making ethnic generalisations but some come to the UK and totally rebuild their lives. Work hard and do well. Within a generation there kids are all at university studying medicine or engineering etc. giving some thing back. and doing very well for them selves in the process.

Some just turn and expect everything handed to them on a plate.

Someone is feeding them a lie about Europe and I suspect were about to see another wave. Shame we can't screen them at the border.


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## spewing




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## Valery

spewing said:


> Some just turn and expect everything handed to them on a plate.


It's just that Europe is too loyal to these refugees. They are given housing and an allowance, ensuring a minimum standard of living. But what poverty is for a European is for a refugee - just paradise compared to living conditions at home. Why then would he work?  The laws need to be toughened, if you don't want to study and work, if you don't want to become a member of the society that has accepted you - deportation. The refugee committed a crime - served a prison sentence and deportation.


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## Sean Khan

spewing said:


> Some just turn and expect everything handed to them on a plate.


Back in the 60's we made a dam that drowned a large number of agricultural fields and the people living around there thought it was better to move out as they could no longer grow their own food.

It was easy for Pakistanis to go to the UK because of the Commonwealth thing... so all these men and women from the town of Mirpur ended up in UK (very generous of Britain actually).

*So like 70%-80% of Pakistanis in Britain are all from one small town*.. Mirpur (in Kashmir). They are not from all over Pakistan... just from one small town.

Mirpur is now called "Little England"... they even accept British currency there and everything sold there seems to be British.






More "Little England"...






These days we have many "Pakistanis" who are actually Afghans with faked documents. So if there is any discrepancy in their papers... those people most likely are criminals. And there are also a few real Pakistanis who are wanted by the authorities for political violence.... those usually try to run off to Germany for some reason.



Valery said:


> The refugee committed a crime - served a prison sentence and deportation.


These days, a number of "refugees" are criminals escaping the law in their own countries.


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## Sean Khan

As I was telling another gentleman here before Kabul fell.... Biden is also the only American president to receive Pakistan's second highest civilian award (in 2008). We don't hand out awards to just anyone.. very few get these.

We thought he was different. And we were proven right.

Pakistan's super-power isn't it's nukes or missiles.... it's *we have a habit of making friends in the strangest of places and we are quite good at it. * 










*Hilal-e-Pakistan,* (lit. 'Crescent of Pakistan') is the second-highest civil award of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. The award seeks to recognize those people who have made "meritorious contribution to the national interests of Pakistan, or cultural, social contribution, or other significant public or private endeavors". The award is not limited to Pakistani citizens and, while it is a civilian award, it can also be conferred upon foreign nationals. It is bestowed by the President of Pakistan once a year on the eve of Independence day.

And here is another very good friend of ours.... have a listen...


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428960322040205318


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## Sean Khan

Afghans attack Pakistani Consulate in Manchester.

We just called the cops on them. Very professional response by the police, I must say.






To the Afghans.... this is not how you hurt Pakistan. If you want to do it right, shove two fingers up your nose and your thumb up your behind and YELL, *"Death to Pakistan"*.

Either you will explode or Pakistan.


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## treefork




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## spewing

Im bringing this up in jest. 

In the UK there is enough home nation (England, Scotland, Wales, Ireland) banter so bringing a bit more into the mix isn't a problem.



Sean Khan said:


> It was easy for Pakistanis to go to the UK because of the Commonwealth thing... so all these men and women from the town of Mirpur ended up in UK (very generous of Britain actually).
> 
> *So like 70%-80% of Pakistanis in Britain are all from one small town*.. Mirpur (in Kashmir). They are not from all over Pakistan... just from one small town.
> 
> Mirpur is now called "Little England"... they even accept British currency there and everything sold there seems to be British.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> More "Little England"...


Can you pass the cricket test

Afghanistan also plays test cricket, all be it not very well.


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## Sean Khan

I don't know how seriously Britain takes the "cricket test".... India takes it very seriously indeed, specially for it's Muslim citizens.









Fans Of Pakistan's Cricket Team Arrested For Sedition In India


Last weekend's victory over India marked a seminal moment for the Pakistani national team. For some of the team's fans in India, however, celebrating the win spelled deep legal trouble.




www.npr.org





Police have arrested at least 19 people across the country on charges of sedition, according to the Times of India (when India lost a game to Pak).

"While the entire country was saddened by the defeat, these people were raising slogans in favour of Pakistan and burst crackers on Sunday night, threatening peace in the area," Sanjay Pathak, a police inspector in Madhya Pradesh, a state where 15 men were arrested, told the newspaper.

"They celebrated with firecrackers, distributing sweets and raising slogans of 'Long live Pakistan,' " another Madhya Pradesh police officer, Ramasray Yadav, told The New York Times. "They expressed hatred toward India and friendship toward Pakistan. *They are charged for sedition and criminal conspiracy." 🤣 *

The _Times_ reports that all the people arrested are Muslims. 



spewing said:


> Afghanistan also plays test cricket


Unfortunately.


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## spewing

For the benefit of the non commonwealth countries and for some strange reason Canada

All you need to know about cricket is....

India verses Pakistan, at any time, in any series and especially the world cup is an even bigger deal than USSR verses USA at Ice Hockey in the final of the winter olympics.


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## spewing

Sean Khan said:


> I don't know how seriously Britain takes the "cricket test".... India takes it very seriously indeed, specially for it's Muslim citizens.


Not very seriously at all.
Its all banter You don't want to be a Pome in Australia during the ashes.

In the UK your allowed to think what you like and up to a point say what you want. There is a line and its very very giving, you know where it is, so don't get upset if you chose to cross the line



Sean Khan said:


> Afghans attack Pakistani Consulate in Manchester.
> 
> We just called the cops on them. Very professional response by the police, I must say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> To the Afghans.... this is not how you hurt Pakistan. If you want to do it right, shove two fingers up your nose and your thumb up your behind and YELL, *"Death to Pakistan"*.
> 
> Either you will explode or Pakistan.


Even if you do cross the line the consequences will probably be far far less than where you came from.

That allegedly is why you're here.


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## Sean Khan

spewing said:


> Not very seriously at all.
> Its all banter


That's nice. Most of them .. if they are from Pak.. will probably fail the cricket test. A more accurate test is the "passport test". Do we dump our Pakistani passports when we legally immigrate to the UK for example? Hardly ever. That's why they ended up in the UK or Canada in the first place... they allow dual-nationality.

As for refugees (not legal immigrants or temporary workers), we are not a war zone and never will be. If someone claims they are from Pak and they want asylum, they are either criminals or afghans pretending to be Pakistanis. Easy to tell in the latter case.... get someone who talks Urdu and ask them something. Their command of Urdu is horrible. Certainly can't get rid of the Afghan accent....

UK found a way to minimize problems in the Afghan case... they are only taking in women, children and families. Single men can take a hike or try their luck with one of the American planes.









Single men are either collaborators (from the taliban point of view) or just plain opportunists. Instead of running away from their country, they should have fought harder for it.

BTW, this is what those men crowding the airport were given to eat... 🤣 🤣 🤣

I shouldn't be laughing but it's too funny. Maple flavored too! I gotto try this maple syrup thing sometime....


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1428913084727431172


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## Sean Khan

Pakistan International Airlines airlifts German and Dutch citizens. Don't know how many are left but we will get them all out. They are at Islamabad Airport right now. We got all our people out.

We are taking 600 people a day, out of there. Mostly EU citizens now.


__ https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429680596222193664


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