# Slingshot as a defensive weapon



## dgui

My opinion is that esspecially in stealth a Slingshot could be a Formidable Weapon when you consider bands and projectiles available today. What do you think.


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## harpersgrace

Well the slingshot is used by rebels in northern Ireland and Palestine so it must have some value, I'm sure there are other weapons much more suited but the fact is when push comes to shove you use what you have.


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## Chugosh

It would not be my first choice, but then I am not quite confident in my shooting.

It would be far more likely to injure than kill anything so big as a man, but then you would only have a guy's eye on your consience and not his life. A few stinging painful shots could deter anyone only half hearted in their evil designs.


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## Bill Hays

I am actually planning on making a video about this. Used correctly a slingshot, especially one of my Pocket Predators can be a very formidable weapon for self defense... it's all in how it's used though... which I'll try to demonstrate to full effect.

Hint, it's not only about how you shoot it...


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## John-Boy

harpersgrace said:


> Well the slingshot is used by rebels in northern Ireland and Palestine so it must have some value, I'm sure there are other weapons much more suited but the fact is when push comes to shove you use what you have.


Its used by loyalists and nationalist thugs in riots throughout N.Ireland (mainly Belfast) as theres no law against owning one and are readily available for young ones to purchase.


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## Guest

Bill Hays said:


> I am actually planning on making a video about this. Used correctly a slingshot, especially one of my Pocket Predators can be a very formidable weapon for self defense... it's all in how it's used though... which I'll try to demonstrate to full effect.
> 
> Hint, it's not only about how you shoot it...


I'm really looking foward to this, sounds pretty interesting. A slingshot makes an excellent defense weapon, when used as a Kubotan (palmstick) for hand to hand combat and also for stranglehold.

cheers


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## harpersgrace

John~Boy just so there is no misunderstanding, when I used the word rebel, I meant in the context of someone who defies the established ruling system, I was making no comment either in support or against these people on whichever side they may be.



John-Boy said:


> Well the slingshot is used by rebels in northern Ireland and Palestine so it must have some value, I'm sure there are other weapons much more suited but the fact is when push comes to shove you use what you have.


Its used by loyalists and nationalist thugs in riots throughout N.Ireland (mainly Belfast) as theres no law against owning one and are readily available for young ones to purchase.
[/quote]


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## tubeman

Quite a defensive weapon, when you consider that Joerg fired one of his cannon balls clean thru a slab of ballistic gel and that stuff is supposed to equate to human flesh


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## JoergS

Let us not forget clothes and skin, two materials that make penetration quite tough. Gelatine emulates flesh, but more like a slab of beef, ready for the BBQ. No skin, no bones, just flesh. Easy to penetrate.

In reality, a slingshot can kill a human attacker, but only if you hit the right spot. Headshots do it, easily. But the pain you can inflict by shooting someone in the chest or belly would be so tremendous that the man stopping effect would be quite substantial.

I always wanted to do a cobat parcours with a slingshot!


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## Chrissz

JoergS said:


> ...
> I always wanted to do a cobat parcours with a slingshot!


.. and then the oponent might be hit by eight 15mm balls at the same time ....

hehe, i wont do such a parcour


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## Dayhiker

Just guessing, but I think a 38 or 45 cal. lead ball taken to the forehead from a double set of thera gold bands tapered from 1-1/8" to 3/4" would stop and probably kill a man at 15-20 yards.


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## BCLuxor

I got my old man to shoot me in the back ( wearing thin T shirt), with a plastic bb 10mm , and I can tell you for a fact at about 10ft it stung like ****, it looked like a paint ball had hit me! I could not imagine how much damage could be done with some 14mm steel or lead. I think when people refer to clothes they must mean something substansional like a winter coat or overalls for protection because jeans and a t-shirt offer little possibly from penetration but the blunt force of the BB still passes onto the target and it hurts!


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## aikidog

With out a doubt a slingshot could put some hurt on people. However, being a martial artist for over 35 years and a defensive tactic instructor to both civilian as well as law enforcement officers as a personal defensive weapon requiring immediate deployment I think not. If you gave opportunity to set aim then fire ok. Let me tell you the 21 foot rule. I can get to you with a knife faster than you can draw and fire a holstered weapon. Been proven many times over. Entire studies on it. Again just having it in your possession in a defensive situation will give many a false sense of security. IRS the will to do bodily harm that must be overcome. Watch the news nightly at least in my area. Shootings with 30-50 shots fired one assailant multiple officers. Some of whom I train with. On the range 2 shots centermass in the field lead rain.


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## dgui

By Stealth a carefully placed shot to the temple, through the eye into the ear canal, through the throught, through the mouth, with say a 1/2 steel ball at about 300 fps or about 200 mph should turn an intruder away to seek immediate medical attention. This is only an opinion and I do not speak from experience.


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## BCLuxor

Agreed with aikidog. I supose it is about situation most of the self defence situations require something a little blunter and close range. But if the oppourtunity is there zombie hordes trying to get through the windows etc then I would happily take out my slingshot.


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## Bugar

Bill Hays said:


> I am actually planning on making a video about this. Used correctly a slingshot, especially one of my Pocket Predators can be a very formidable weapon for self defense... it's all in how it's used though... which I'll try to demonstrate to full effect.
> 
> Hint, it's not only about how you shoot it...


Right- and among my experimenting with ammo, the most destructive I have shot was some 3/8 hex nuts filled with lead, right around 200 grain weight, when shot out of a double band, or bands as you use,or a Dankung, they totally destroyed steel cans, plywood, almost anything I would shoot,- with your skill and a Hathcock Target Sniper=DEADLY= this was around 10 - 12 yards, just some comments and observations from an old geezer.


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## mckee

i think so i dont think it would kill but it would seriously injure some1 enough time to get away any call 999


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## dgui

What Bugar said and I will add: In the hands of someone who can shoot the edge of a card at who knows what distance makes sence that a well placed round from an experienced hand will command devistating results.


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## Bert

Agreed that they're a capable weapon though with very little margin for error and that's a huge reason to love em


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## John McKean

Actually, from experience as an instructor in ww2 combatives ( the striking tactics, not DURING ww2 !!), all the devastating hand strikes are even better with a wooden or metal fork in one's hands ! The shape of the fork prevents one from losing a grip, and reach is slightly extended. Not to mention the impact of a solid fork (gives a new meaning to "fork hit"!). When I show the series of WW2 strikes with this solid tool, I call the new art "Sling-Fu"!! Of course, if you down a mugger with a series of proper strikes, THEN you can draw out a stone or ball bearing and add enough pain that he would never think of attacking a second time!


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## Charles

A slingshot firing a bladed flechette would be quite deadly in the central chest or back area at a range of 5 to 10 meters, depending on the power of the slingshot. Remember this video, which was posted on another thread.






Such flechettes will penetrate light bullet proof vests, just as a knife will. And I recently saw a video of brain surgery to remove a flechette, but cannot now find the link. Head shots would at least be incapacitating with such a weapon, assuming skull penetration.

In a pinch, a sling shot with flechette might well be a very good stealth weapon ... easily concealed and relatively silent. An excellent way to take out a lone opponent in order to obtain the opponent's firearms.

In case of a threat, while not immediately deadly, having a flechette slice through your guts is very likely to be a deterrent to further attack.

Even with standard ammo, a head shot from a slinghsot would likely deter an attacker ... at least long enough to allow you to get away. Certainly if a "slung shot" (weight on a chord) can inflict incapacitating damage, then so could a powerful slingshot. Of course with a slung shot, one can quickly deliver several blows, which is not possible with a slingshot. On the other hand, one can use a slingshot at some distance, unlike the slung shot. The slung shot is outlawed in many jurisdictions.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## frogman

I have, by first hand experience, seen a guy shot with a heavy .45 cal lead slug. The slingshot was pulled back all the way. the distance was 10 ft. Make no mistake the guy wasn't doing to good when I left. I shouldn't and can't say more. I have seen what the slingshot can do, on a person, first hand. Frogman...


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## dgui

FrogMann a Seal he knows a slow moving heavy projectile close will pound someone. Remember why the .45 was commissioned. That said, with some skill and practice 3 projectiles can be fired off in rapid succession first one to stunn and the next two might insure a stay down so you can get a better advantage of a situation.


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## Henry the Hermit

It seems great minds think alike. Here is my latest idea for a self-defense slingshot. Besides flinging a .50 cal lead ball with authority, it makes a fine Kubotan substitute. I'm thinking about loading the handle with lead.


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## dgui

Henry, That looks like one Sweet Shooter. Do you think you can hide a blade or an ice pick in the bottom of that .50 caliber shooter? Nice.


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## JoergS

Do you guys remember my self defense slingshot? While not entirely meant serious, it does have a few gadgets that help should your first shot not have solvd the problem.


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## Nico

dgui said:


> My opinion is that esspecially in stealth a Slingshot could be a Formidable Weapon when you consider bands and projectiles available today. What do you think.


Been there and done it as a kid in the bad Barrio (neighborhood) I grew up in..
Yes chains propelling stones do break bones and cause internal damage marbles only stun or sting if its body shots ..

They have a long history as weapons of the poor and quite effective, used by small groups all over the world. In Southern Mexico the APPO group has used slingshots in fights with soldiers who used firearms with bullets and they still managed to overcome the the military police with slingshots, firebombs and other improvised goodies. But the slingshot is the one doing all of the work at the whole as its always a long range fight.

Here's some pics of slingshots used as tactical weapons..

Oaxaca pic








Here's another from Gaza Strip ( So the picture says) I cant confirm
A kid using chained bands


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## Cave-dweller

I reckon that a modern slingshot, in the right the right hands and with the right projectile, could potentially be lethal. The right shot could certainly disable a person enough to give you a "window of opportunity" to gain the advantage over them or flee. The main problem with the sligshot, as I see it, is the time it takes to reload and strike again, especially in a stressful self-defense situation.


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## radray

A slingshot can be used as a defensive weapon, but how it is used as defensive weapon will depend on the situation and the shooter's level of proficiency. For the most part, I agree with Aikidog's statement: "Let me tell you the 21 foot rule. I can get to you with a knife faster than you can draw and fire a holstered weapon." However having trained and been trained by LEO's and Military personnel in edged weapons and blunt weapon combatives there are some very well trained/disciplined people that are exceptions to that statement. The only thing I am sure of is that if hit by a heavy enough projectile at a certain speed at a vital area, it can incapacitate/kill an attacker on the receiving end.


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## slingshot_sniper

I thought about this and came to this:

I would not want 10 BB's loaded in a double indent pouch to the face,eyes are very delicate







another thing I thought about too a well placed 12 mm lead shot to the breast bone is definitely going to make a person stop and think about his intentions, and at least give you time to regroup while he writhes in pain


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## bootneck

I like to carve a point on the bottom of my my naterals to help with digging stones out the ground i imagine that would be pretty unpleasent in the top of the head, im sure a good heavy rock to the face would hurt a fare bit too, i can imagine if i caught someone trying to break into the wife's car or something like that i could get the person to think twice, 1.5 inch rocks or 16mm lead to the face wouldnt feel nice.

Even the psychological response of someone drawing one at your face would be unsettling, just try drawing an elastic band right in someones face (preferably someone who would forgive you) watch them try and duck away.


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## ARB

I did a crude experiment once where I used Theratube Black to shoot some steel balls through wood and then tried to replicate the damage by hammering the balls through with a claw hammer. The KE of the balls from the slingshot was about 25-30 ft/lbs. No matter how hard I hit it I failed to hammer the balls through with one blow from the hammer and in fact was not even close. Makes me think that getting shot with a slingshot is worse than getting hit hard with a hammer. When I posted about this experiment on the Trumark forum the post was deleted as I think they don't want slingshots to gain an image as being dangerous weapons.

And that was not an "extreme" slingshot, myself, Jorg and others have built ones with far more KE, sharp projecties etc. I shudder to think what one of Jorg's Bonecrushers would do to a person. Nevermind a headshot, the torso is a much larger target and I would hate getting a 1200 grain bonecusher in the chest at 140 fps.


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## slingshot_sniper

radray said:


> "Let me tell you the 21 foot rule. I can get to you with a knife faster than you can draw and fire a holstered weapon."


"Let me tell you my rule" I would always be 21 feet ahead running away from you,I learned to sprint long before I learned to fight...when it comes to knives I'm off...........Gone!


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## radray

Good rule slingshot sniper.


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## Longbow

dgui said:


> My opinion is that esspecially in stealth a Slingshot could be a Formidable Weapon when you consider bands and projectiles available today. What do you think.


12 gage shotgun works for me


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## ERdept

dgui said:


> My opinion is that esspecially in stealth a Slingshot could be a Formidable Weapon when you consider bands and projectiles available today. What do you think.


NO, I'd say a .45 cal Glock for close in, last ditch.

But, as in the police philosophy, if you need a weapon, it's time to use lethal force. Otherwise, everything is just negotiation and on the spot quick reflexes of your hand and body by grappling and punches and kicks, followed by GTFOOH (Get the F out of here).

Police don't shoot to wound. If you need to defend yourself, and it's the time for that, you've exhausted all options and gotta stop the threat and they threat deserves to be killed. There's no shoot to wound. That invites lawsuits.

If you mean by stealth, are you referring to being offensive and minimizing detection? If so a silenced firearm. Something with low pressure and low feet per second, so a .22 or .45.

But an improvised quiet weapon would be a bow.

Really, if you're defending yourself, you can do anything you want to not be killed. the law, at least here in America will support you.

A slingshot is slow, and the first shot may miss. If you shot a slingshot at me, I'd cover up and rush you. Like traditional archers in ancient war. They were effective only at longer ranges, if you got close, they were toast. You can quote me on that.

Im a NRA certified Firearms trainer as a sideline from doing ER nursing. i know a thing or two about defense.

I carry as and EDC (Every day Carry) a folding knife. You can shank someone and have and "edge" over them. Pun intended. Or just run. Best to not fight. Even a good fighter stands the chance of a lucky punch. Best to not fight, apologize, and get away from there.


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## harpersgrace

If the subject of the thread was firearms I would agree with you. since it's about slingshot well guns don't really come into it.
This happens on every forum I've been on, question would a kurkri make a good self defence weapon? answer get a gun. Question would a walkingstick make a good self defence weapon? answer get a gun, question whats a good non leathal self defence weapon? get a gun,....bottum line not everyone wants a gun...and not everyone will have a gun when they need one...
And yes I have a gun, rifle and shotgun and have been shooting since I was old enough to hold one, so I'm not anti-gun in the least..well except in the hands of idiots but I feel the same about slingshots too... 
When push come to shove you're going to use what ever you have be if knife, rock, pointy stick, phone receiver or slingshot, better to know how to use anything at hand than to depend on one weapon.


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## slingshot_sniper

[edit] Note to self: Must keep to topic


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## BCLuxor

This whole topic has got everyone thinking about what can be done with slingshots I like it! I watched a programme not to long ago about a jail in the Philippines where the inmates were maming each other with large ball bearings wrapped in socks! The jail spokes person said the inmates would wait until the oppurtunity presented and would begin swinging the socks loaded with several large ( from what I could see 16mm ish ) ball bearings/stones around in circular motions until they let go launching the sock and its contents at the face of the target putting the intended victim im the medical unit. Two of the victims of this attack were left with broken facial bones and in one case blind in one eye, since these incidents began happening inmates were permited to only have open footwear. I will try to find out the source documentary and post a you tube link the programme was very interesting and full of primative/homecraft weapons used in jails around the world.


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## gamekeeper john

i think a slingshot could easily kill a person with the right bands and ammo, I would rather get shot with a 1.77 or 2.2 air rifle than a 12mm lead ball at over 300fps? anyway who say you have got to shoot lead or steel balls? you can shoot arrows or even crosbow bolts that would surely go straight through a person. or how about little circular blades? i know a gun is without a doubt the best defensive weapon but you can realy only shoot the bullet it was designed for were as a slingshot can easily be modified to shoot almost anything (Jorg as prooved that with machetes and circular saw blades) but you have to have some serious b***ox to shoot them things lol


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## ARB

gamekeeper john said:


> i think a slingshot could easily kill a person with the right bands and ammo, I would rather get shot with a 1.77 or 2.2 air rifle than a 12mm lead ball at over 300fps? anyway who say you have got to shoot lead or steel balls? you can shoot arrows or even crosbow bolts that would surely go straight through a person. or how about little circular blades?


Or Bonecrushers







Have you seen Jorg's video on them? They scare me more than the machete or sawblade videos probably because the Bonecrushers are easily made and shot from a normal slingshot with a low fork. A fork rebound or a hand hit would be disasterous and would probably result in the shooter being maimed for life. Likewise, being shot in the chest with one would be ..unpleasant.


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## shooter452

I can't see a slingshot being a very realistic defense weapon from attack. If you have the ability to retrieve, then load, then shoot....you would have had time to run. More realistically, it could be used as a last ditch striking weapon to help get loose from close quarters. I think another possible use may be home defense where the situation is.....I've called the police, if he comes through the bedroom door he gets one in the facial area as it more likely that you would have time to prepare to shoot.


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## slingshot_sniper

Home defense is good I condone it,I will put up my vid soon of my PF shooter preloaded with arrow(in theory you could have as many as you like) each one will shoot a arrow then a 12mm steel or lead ball quite quickly, then pick up another and start again


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## slingshot_sniper

video up









My link


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## dgui

After watching SlingShotSniper and his PreLoaded SmackDown it is my opininon that we could be looking at the Bob Munden of SlingShot Shooters here. Now those who have seen the likes of Munden must reason that the 21 foot rule in no way can apply to someone with the history and reputation or of the likes of Munden. Im going to noodle with this 21 foot quick draw quick shot slingshot stuff to see if the 21 foot rule can be circumvented. This 21 foot rule just might be the standard to measure ones preparedness for who knows what.


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## ZDP-189

ERdept said:


> Really, if you're defending yourself, you can do anything you want to not be killed. the law, at least here in America will support you.


I am told that in England the law says you have to run away to the best of your ability, even if you are standing in your own home between your baby's cot and a meth addict who is carrying a blood soaked machete and yelling "I'm gonna butcher you all".


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## slingshot_sniper

ZDP-189 said:


> Really, if you're defending yourself, you can do anything you want to not be killed. the law, at least here in America will support you.


I am told that in England the law says you have to run away to the best of your ability, even if you are standing in your own home between your baby's cot and a meth addict who is carrying a blood soaked machete and yelling "I'm gonna butcher you all".
[/quote]

Misinformation there buddy we can use reasonable force to fit the circumstances...so someone breaks into your house it would be classed reasonable to bash his head until the threat is no more...it becomes unreasonable to continue after that and if you run after him (if he runs away) and bash him that would be assault









Now if someone breaks into your home and is armed with a knife and comes at you,you'd be in your rights to shoot him with a arrow and or slingshot,just don't continue if he gives in and wants to leave....thats it really


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## slingshot_sniper

dgui said:


> After watching SlingShotSniper and his PreLoaded SmackDown it is my opininon that we could be looking at the Bob Munden of SlingShot Shooters here. Now those who have seen the likes of Munden must reason that the 21 foot rule in no way can apply to someone with the history and reputation or of the likes of Munden. Im going to noodle with this 21 foot quick draw quick shot slingshot stuff to see if the 21 foot rule can be circumvented. This 21 foot rule just might be the standard to measure ones preparedness for who knows what.


Well here's the thing Darrell if someone had a knife and was 21 feet away I'm pretty sure I would hit him with the arrow as he stepped of the mark and less than a second later a 12mm lead ball would be flying his way I'm dead accurate at that distance









Oh and many years working the doors has taught me to remain calm in such circumstances


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Shooting someone, would be probably the last thing I use the slingshot for; I think I'd be more likely to throw it. We had this thread a while back, I think I still agree with what I thought then, its only really helpful as a striking/locking mechanism. None-the-less, I've seen the way Bill moves his sword, and the look in his eye when he shoots those tough shots; I'd love to see his video.


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## slingshot_sniper

Make your own mind up,i have back up


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## slingshot_sniper

Edit...................


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## dgui

aikidog said:


> With out a doubt a slingshot could put some hurt on people. However, being a martial artist for over 35 years and a defensive tactic instructor to both civilian as well as law enforcement officers as a personal defensive weapon requiring immediate deployment I think not. If you gave opportunity to set aim then fire ok. Let me tell you the 21 foot rule. I can get to you with a knife faster than you can draw and fire a holstered weapon. Been proven many times over. Entire studies on it. Again just having it in your possession in a defensive situation will give many a false sense of security. IRS the will to do bodily harm that must be overcome. Watch the news nightly at least in my area. Shootings with 30-50 shots fired one assailant multiple officers. Some of whom I train with. On the range 2 shots centermass in the field lead rain.


At 21 feet if a shot is delivered through the eye with a 1/2 inch steel ball as you see in this video at about 200 fps this is bound to stop a bad guy. Well it would certainly stop me. In my opinion. This is my first Quick Draw and I will attemp to better perfect this skill. Still I am of the opinion that a slingshot can be a viable weapon at 21 feet.


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## bootneck

If you were ambushing someone robbing your house say waiting for them then im sure it would work as a way to get a quick 'punch' in before you charged the robber, but i see it more as putting them off or destracting them while you start to batter the living daylights out of them, not dropping them, but still the average bloke wouldnt be in much of a mood for a fight after,
but if your a fairly small or weak person or even pretty big I'd deffinatly get some training, it's no good just relying on weapons.

On the other hand I'd still rather a nice sig 226 just a shame it has to stay at work (uk laws are a pain in the arse)


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## bullseyeben!

In bit of a rush so didn't read too many posts, but slingers aren't really meant to be close combat last minute weapons,.sure I have a few in me bedroom, just in case, but I'm sure a nice 10mm shot from stealth at 300fps plus, to a vital area would stop any.one in their tracks..


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## dgui

Hey SingShot Sniper, So if you only knock one tooth out with the slingshot then you finish off his smile with a Brass Knuckles Thrust. That works for me too.

Good Show Mate.


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## dallasdeadeye

i purchased a couple chief aj hfx, not to hunt big game, becuase i dont think it can take down real animals with it, but to use when im in mexico for the two legged rats down there. only because firearms are prohibited. with a two bladed broadhead designed for hogs. better than throwing rocks?


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## aikidog

Darrell with out a doubt your shooting never ceases to amaze me. There are many talented marksmen on this forum. Don't think I'd like to run into any of them at any distance. I am humbled every day when I see the degree of skill and ease at which it appears to come.


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## NaturalFork

I sleep with a slingshot no more than 12 inches from me. However if someone was breaking in. With all the weapons I have in my bedroom, to be honest the one I could pick up and fire the quickest would be my compound bow. I have guns but because of the kids I do not have ammo readily available.


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## haertig

harpersgrace said:


> Well the slingshot is used by rebels in northern Ireland and Palestine so it must have some value...


... but do these rebels ever win the fights they get into with their slingshots?

Just today:

http://www.denverpost.com/search/ci_18213434


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## Brooks67

I know I wouldn't like to get shot with a slingshot


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## shooter452

There is really two questions in this thread. One...will a slingshot stop an attack? I believe with the right shot and ammo the answer is yes.

Two....can it be readily assessable in the blink of an eye? Dgui is the man and makes my favorite videos, but I would prefer a gun and rather have a good knife over a slingshot if a bad guy attacked from behind or was on me before I realized I was under attack. This was the point of my last post.

I actually carry a gun, knife, and slingshot with me every day. The gun for defense, the knife for utility, and the slingshot for sport and fun!


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## haertig

shooter452 said:


> I actually carry a gun, knife, and slingshot with me every day. The gun for defense, the knife for utility, and the slingshot for sport and fun!


Bingo! We have the winning answer!


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## slingshot_sniper

haertig said:


> I actually carry a gun, knife, and slingshot with me every day. The gun for defense, the knife for utility, and the slingshot for sport and fun!


Bingo! We have the winning answer!
[/quote]

Well actually that depends where you live,here we are not allowed to carry guns or lock knives,so my answer is I only carry a slingshot for fun only...that said I do have some defense tricks up my sleeve


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## dgui

A slingshot that carries the identifying name of Seal Sniper, tough as nail and hard hitting. It sounds logical to me that one could send the results of the working end of this slingshot to the head of a criminal type and with vigor turn him back.


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## slingshot_sniper

dgui said:


> A slingshot that carries the identifying name of Seal Sniper, tough as nail and hard hitting. It sounds logical to me that one could send the results of the working end of this slingshot to the head of a criminal type and with vigor turn him back.


Exactly Darrell tho I may or may not get a shot off but I'm confident enough to know how to use a seal sniper for other strikings,of which there are many you could use









The only thing that worries me is if the cotton wool brigade get to hear how I would strike with one then the fear is they would re classify it as a knuckle duster,stinger,kubaton or other impact weapon,I shall therefore tread carefully what I say about it and hope the occasion never arises that I have to use it that way


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## dgui

I remember the worlds "Speak sofely but carry a big stick".

Understood.


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## slingshot_sniper

dgui said:


> I remember the worlds "Speak sofely but carry a big stick".
> 
> Understood.


True words ever spoken


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## dgui

Dayhiker said:


> Just guessing, but I think a 38 or 45 cal. lead ball taken to the forehead from a double set of thera gold bands tapered from 1-1/8" to 3/4" would stop and probably kill a man at 15-20 yards.


.45 would be my choice but jacketed like a home defence round. I have some round jacketed lead like that.


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## haertig

Dayhiker said:


> Just guessing, but I think a 38 or 45 cal. lead ball taken to the forehead from a double set of thera gold bands tapered from 1-1/8" to 3/4" would stop and probably kill a man at 15-20 yards.


Maybe so, but I'd still prefer that .45cal lead to be sitting on top of 5.0 grains of Bullseye or W231 than on theraband. But in places where self defense is considered unacceptable, this theraband proposal would certainly sting the bad guy a little. I would shoot for the eye though, like Hassan did in The Kite Runner.


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## dgui

haertig said:


> Just guessing, but I think a 38 or 45 cal. lead ball taken to the forehead from a double set of thera gold bands tapered from 1-1/8" to 3/4" would stop and probably kill a man at 15-20 yards.


Maybe so, but I'd still prefer that .45cal lead to be sitting on top of 5.0 grains of Bullseye or W231 than on theraband. But in places where self defense is considered unacceptable, this theraband proposal would certainly sting the bad guy a little. I would shoot for the eye though, like Hassan did in The Kite Runner.
[/quote]

I will have to view that, The Kite Runner.


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## haertig

dgui said:


> I will have to view that, The Kite Runner.


I haven't seen the movie, but the book was really good. Highly recommended.


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## slingshot_sniper

I may get a fresh big cow shin bone from the butchers to see what effect I can make on it with 12mm steel


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## dgui

Eye Protection, have your video rolling,10 feet away, cautiously pull Butterfly, and have a Cracking Event. I'm certain it will be Beautiful. A coconut is very hard and I shot one with Tex Express and a 3/8 steel ball and at either 10 or 15 feet it went through both sides, tried with a 5/8 marble and it only went through one side but still impressive. And if you shoot with those Tex Magnum Bands Oh something gonna Give. About your G-10 LS-PFS and the grove on the forks. I now only make 3 loops right in the grove but very tight and wind it downward to the end of the V. The grove that Bill put was a nice add on.


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## slingshot_sniper

Thanks for the tip Darrell numb skull here wound up toward the fork tip


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## Dave

Absolutely correct. You go with what you got. When your scared and your heart is racing, forget target accuracy, its gone. Your fine motor skills ain't there. Keep that in mind. A slingshot shot to the eye will be quite a bit harder than you can imagine. Only repedative training will help. The head may forget but if you have trained hard your hands will remember and the head can catch up later.


harpersgrace said:


> If the subject of the thread was firearms I would agree with you. since it's about slingshot well guns don't really come into it.
> This happens on every forum I've been on, question would a kurkri make a good self defence weapon? answer get a gun. Question would a walkingstick make a good self defence weapon? answer get a gun, question whats a good non leathal self defence weapon? get a gun,....bottum line not everyone wants a gun...and not everyone will have a gun when they need one...
> And yes I have a gun, rifle and shotgun and have been shooting since I was old enough to hold one, so I'm not anti-gun in the least..well except in the hands of idiots but I feel the same about slingshots too...
> When push come to shove you're going to use what ever you have be if knife, rock, pointy stick, phone receiver or slingshot, better to know how to use anything at hand than to depend on one weapon.


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## dgui

To be Efficient with something, anything it must be exercised nearly on a daily basis. Some speak a gun as the best means of taking care of a situation. There have been occasional where a family man has shot and killed his wife in their own home because he may not have been as familiar with his weapon as he ought to be. Weapons training once a year to re-qualify will not do it. If someone has a service weapon it must be a part of their being daily to be efficient and calculating with it. For me, I have a Home Defence 410 shotgun but the gun is at one place and the ammo is at a different place so that if it is during the night that I am going for it I will be sure to be awake and not just crank off a round in haste and then it is too late. We might want to react as we think we would but maby not. I think I will just leave the gun alone and hope for the best because once the round is out of the chamber you can't take it back. Now on the other hand I shoot my slingshots at least 5 days per week and this I am most familiar with in cranking off a projectile. I'll stick with that and the Tex Magnum Bands. And hope for the best. Better False Hope than No Hope.


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## slingshot_sniper

To be fair and even if you were shaking "I don't in these situations I've been in more than I need to remember" just a slingshot held at just below shoulder height would put the ammo at the breast bone area and even with clothes on it going to make the attacker think a little giving you precious time to re group.

I have found through experience and over many years preforming defense moves is best first thing in the morning do it over and over....then forget about it the rest of the day believe me it will stay with you and you wont even think about it when it comes to using it....it becomes second nature


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## Guest

Cool topic as for the 21 ft rule I can understand that taking ammo out then loading then pulling back the person would be on your neck. If it was already in pouch and you said go you would have to be flash Gordon to not get hit at least once. I find it hard to stomach the mma wanna be dudes out there who strut around acting macho. Yes a person 21 feet from me charging with a knife will be hit someplace on their body. And as for mma dudes they do not repel strong groin attacks or eye gouges or small joint manipulations( fingers) very well and most would not last with out the thick weighted gloves they use. Sorry for the rant.


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## slingshot_sniper

Most attacks are over in seconds its the hours you put in day after day learning how to correctly close the distance that counts...any fool can just rush in fighting blindly...big mistake on someone who knows this and never underestimates anyone


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## Bill Hays

Okay here's my take on the whole slingshot as a defensive weapon deal:
There's 10 parts to this video, starts with the unlikely scenarios, moves on to more likely, goes to a little knife play (with a sheathed tanto), then a little defense against the shoot and choke... ending with simple grab defense and the like.

It's important to note, I am only showing the most basic of movements, only those that can be performed by the greatest majority of people with little training... if you want more in depth knowledge and a greater more refined set of skills... you can NOT learn from merely watching videos on youtube. You must visit and partake in actual training in a setting with a competent instructor. You can go to: http://www.dsihq.com/schools---usa.html for a list of schools that specialize in real self defense tactics for more realistic situations. 
You will want a school that teaches Combat Hapkido for the fastest and most accessible techniques to add to your self defense knowledge base... and a more traditional martial art if you're looking for a long term commitment with competition in mind.

I originally thought we should do the videos in the school, but most of the guys there are much shorter than myself... Patrick is 6' 6" so he fit the bill perfectly... the only problem is, he just got back from College, dropped by the farm for a visit but can't get to the school in the evening for at least a week.... so we went on ahead and did the video under a tree in the driveway.
We'll probably do a more professional production at some point, as time and opportunity presents itself.

Part 1





Part 2
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3wUOm9cz6A[/media]

Part 3
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aq0QYTxOI1M


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## Bill Hays

Part 4





Part 5
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWkUkM0WZ4k[/media]

Part 6
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBmJcg3JVzU[/media]

Part 7
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q6Gtil6_bBA


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## Bill Hays

Part 8





Part 9
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6iGbzceEf_E[/media]

Part 10
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uLAZrmtnMI


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## gamekeeper john

great vids bill, would g10 be strong enough 2 make a knuckle duster out of? i have made a knuckle duster out of multiplex before and tested it with a hammer and couldnt break it, imagine a nuckle duster with 2 forks and a bit of latex! you can shoot them and if they get to close *BANG* and goodnight, i think i will make one soon, all the best john


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## NightKnight

Still going through them, but they are really instructive! Good job!


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## dgui

Good Stuff Bill H.


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## harpersgrace

I'm a lousy shot with a stickshot but in close I could do some damage
 
Nice videos Bill, Glad you showed some basic moves...Thanks


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## Bill Hays

Thanks Guys!

There's actually quite a bit of information there that is applicable with a slingshot, a stick or even barehanded.
Basics such as distancing and your personal space, controlling the center, voice control, muscle contraction upon getting struck and many other subtle points are addressed. These basics are at least as important as knowing how to strike with maximum force and direction.


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## slingshot_sniper

gamekeeper john said:


> great vids bill, would g10 be strong enough 2 make a knuckle duster out of? i have made a knuckle duster out of multiplex before and tested it with a hammer and couldnt break it, imagine a nuckle duster with 2 forks and a bit of latex! you can shoot them and if they get to close *BANG* and goodnight, i think i will make one soon, all the best john


John anything closely resembling a KD could land you in deep trouble if found with it in a public place,anyway G10 is more than capable material for a KD after all some KD's,stingers and some kubatons were made of ABS plastics and worked well IIRC
















[edit] just something I would not trust with wood,splinters


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## Bill Hays

G10 is many times stronger than multiplex... so if you can make effective knuckle dusters out of plyboard... then one made from G10 would be more effective. This is all theory of course... as we all know manufacturing and carrying of such would be illegal in most jurisdictions.

HOWEVER... like pretty much everything else, there are simple ways around all that. By not cutting individual finger holes and simply leaving a long slot for the fingers to grasp through... now you have something that can offer handslap protection as well as other







things.


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## slingshot_sniper

Bill the seal sniper makes for a good one place thumb and index finger through the forks,the handle will protrude through index and middle finger and.......I'm sure you know what I mean
















I'm sure you can do this with your other designs but with the seal the thumb shelf facing up the ergonomics are just right for me


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## Bill Hays

Yeah, used in that fashion it'd certainly be the bane of malcontents.


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## romanianshadow

After years of involvement in several street fights and a lot of martial arts training, *I can honestly tell that a slingshot cannot help anybody for self defense*. It may, however, be able to help when it comes to defend others. Below are the reasons:
*
1. The slingshot needs time to be deployed.* You need several moves to make it ready to use (pull it out of the pocket, pull the ammunition out of the pocket, grip it in the ready-to-shoot position, extend the rubber, then shoot). The attacker will kick, punch or cut you several times until you do that - and the first touch in many cases already decides the final result of a fight.
*2. After each shot you need to repeat the several moves in order to shoot again.* When attacked, your mind has a lot of pressure, tension, fear, etc. and that's why you have chances to miss the target. You have changes to miss even with an armed gun, but when it's about a slingshot, as there are more moves involved, you have a lot more chances to do a mistake.
*3. The slingshot needs two hands to be operated.*
*4. *In a real life situation, *a committed attack is always launched by a person* that is *very familiar with violence* and *who knows how to choose his moment*. The attack will always occur in a moment that is very bad for you and very favorable for your opponent (they hunt your missattention etc. etc. etc.). Other kinds of attacks can usually be avoided with a verbal exchange. You will not be able to keep your slingshot armed and ready to shoot all the time (you can't walk in the street like that). And a slingshot won't help you if it's in your pocket when you're attacked. Because your attacker will be with his eyes on you in a close range when he attacks and will take care to prevent any attempt of pulling an object out of your pocket.
*5. A normal slingshot has no knock-out power* against an opponnent that wears heavy clothes (in winter for example). An attacker that is so committed that he cannot be determined verbally to let you go, will not be stopped by any kind of strikes, unless he's knocked out!

As I see the things, *a slingshot can only help when you need to defend a third party person from an attack.* That's very possible, because the attacker is focused on his victim and may not be aware of your presence and intention. In this situation - yes - you may be able to deploy your slingshot and shoot deadly. You may also be able to adjust the distance and position in order to deliver a good shoot.

*PS: *Regarding *Joerg's self defense slingshot*, I'm sincerely skeptical about its usability. I only see the additional spray as usable in case of conflictual situation (and only if you can pull the entire stuff up in real time - because it's a big slingshot and difficult to wear with you all over the place).

Cheers!


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## romanianshadow

*A good challenge for everybody*







would be to design *a slingshot that doesn't look like one*.... something that is already deployed - ready to shoot, installed on top of your clothes, but *without people around you to notice that it's a weapon*.


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## dgui

A Tool a .45 or a shotgun a race car a plane a tank a rocket launcher or even a slingshot and it's effectiveness depends on the skill of the operator. A .45 in the hands of someone who does not use it daily and I mean fire it is genally an incapable ineffective individual. A glass cutting tool in the hands of an unqualified person could be either useless or dangerous at least for someone. What is true for some may not be true in every case. We are equal that we are men but not all men are have the same abilities the same. Some should never box professinally some ought never drive a motorcyle or attempt to do a wheelie or hang glide or climb a mountain and some should never ever go to school for accounting. A blanket statement of something being either useless or ineffective has merrit like no one should ever smoke or chew tobaco or drink poluted water out of a stream where there is a dead animal in it up stream. With slingshots, we are not talking about the toys sold at walmart and academy we are talking about a finely tuned piece of equipment and in the hands of a capable individual with countless hours of sending ammo slamming into things with the precision of an Abrams Tank. But, I respect your choice to see it as you do. 
Respectfully,
dgui


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## Cap

I think the main word here is _defence_. Some of the imagined effects in this thread are way overkill for defence, I think.


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## Slackbunny

Slingshots are all well and good, but what if the attacker has a baseball bat? Then your totally screwed.









But on a more serious note, I just don't see a slingshot being an effective *self-defense* weapon. It takes too long to shoot, lacks the stopping power of a firearm, and as a melee weapon it really doesn't stand up to knives, or bats. Also one of the reasons a firearm is more effective in this setting is the fear factor. People fear firearms, and just the sight of one is usually enough of a deterent to stop any criminal. This fear is also associated with knives and bats to a lesser degree. Most people think of slingshots as toys, and they will have little to no fear associated with them.

That is not to say that a slingshot is not an effective weapon. With the appropriate set-up they can be a lethal weapon. In an ambush or stealth style operation they would be more effective, and in these settings the lack of fear for the weapon could work in your advantage as they may not take you seriously until it is too late. But in self-defense you want them to take you seriously immediately.


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## dgui

Well then the one attempting to wield the bat would surely get a surprise with the toy slingshot and would loose his grip and perhaps something else with the second shot and he better step off or he will get a quick 3rd shot to the noggin.


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## hawk2009

I would not hesitate in using the slingshot as a weapon I keep one on my cabinet next to my bed, the reason behind this is if I hear someone outside in the early hours trying to break into my shed or tampering with the cars I can send a projectile from my bedroom window giving him a huge shock and quite a bit of pain hopefully to deter him from coming again, theives know it's gonna take a few seconds for you to get downstairs and out the door, by this time they will be up the road and you wont know where to look b........ they are the scum of the earth and need to learn sometimes the hard way.As for using the slingshot itself as a handheld weapon why not I have a Kubaton I have had this for years and take it with me everywhere I also carry a small lighter I dont smoke but would certainly use it to burn an attacker and my teeth to bite through any part of his anatomy.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Did you doubters even watch Bill's videos? I don't think he once says to shoot the person. Bill, has taken this oddly shaped thing, and turned it into a useable defensive tool; the grip that he uses, is undoubtably a very effective and strong grip (I would say it is the key to his series). Using the slingshot as he does, I think is a very effective way of simply hardening what is in essence a Ninjutsu finger striking technique. Thusly applied with modern self-defence techniques, it becomes a devastating weapon, worthy of any mans arsenal. And the series itself, deals with the very basics of hand-hand combat, in a simple and clear way. We should be honoured, to have his skill involed in this sport. And if you do get the chance to shoot a protagonist, it would be very damaging, with the correct set-up ... Gosh!


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## slingshot_sniper

Ok we've heard how easy it is for an attacker to surprise an innocent person,well I can tell you from experience (after working the doors for many years) this is very hard to achieve with someone who has trained in awareness of his surroundings and one who is versed in reading signs from such people.

Firstly these people are cowards and will only launch an attack if they know they have a good chance of success and up close.

Secondly they will not attack from 21 feet,they will try to get much closer..here's the trick don't let them simple.

Set yourselves a rule doesn't have to be and attack from someone,just be aware every time someone comes into your safe area,lets say thirty feet.....as an exercise just in your mind without attracting their attention try reading them..have they got hands in pockets...do they seem relaxed or angry ect..ect..... golden rule don't let them close the distance you set yourself if you do not know the person...do this anytime of the day or night it's called awareness training and after awhile you'll get to a state of awareness that if someone try's to close in on your safe area...you'll quickly learn that person has bad intentions.......time then to act!!! and don't fall for the oldest trick in the book "Hi mate have you got a spare cigarette" lol

Simply put underestimate no one,become totally aware of your surroundings at all times and keep that precious space,,,you call your safe zone sacred.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

slingshot_sniper said:


> Ok we've heard how easy it is for an attacker to surprise an innocent person,well I can tell you from experience (after working the doors for many years) this is very hard to achieve with someone who has trained in awareness of his surroundings and one who is versed in reading signs from such people.
> 
> Firstly these people are cowards and will only launch an attack if they know they have a good chance of success and up close.
> 
> Secondly they will not attack from 21 feet,they will try to get much closer..here's the trick don't let them simple.
> 
> Set yourselves a rule doesn't have to be and attack from someone,just be aware every time someone comes into your safe area,lets say thirty feet.....as an exercise just in your mind without attracting their attention try reading them..have they got hands in pockets...do they seem relaxed or angry ect..ect..... golden rule don't let them close the distance you set yourself if you do not know the person...do this anytime of the day or night it's called awareness training and after awhile you'll get to a state of awareness that if someone try's to close in on your safe area...you'll quickly learn that person has bad intentions.......time then to act!!! and don't fall for the oldest trick in the book "Hi mate have you got a spare cigarette" lol
> 
> Simply put underestimate no one,become totally aware of your surroundings at all times and keep that precious space,,,you call your safe zone sacred.


Well put.


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## hawk2009

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Did you doubters even watch Bill's videos? I don't think he once says to shoot the person. Bill, has taken this oddly shaped thing, and turned it into a useable defensive tool; the grip that he uses, is undoubtably a very effective and strong grip (I would say it is the key to his series). Using the slingshot as he does, I think is a very effective way of simply hardening what is in essence a Ninjutsu finger striking technique. Thusly applied with modern self-defence techniques, it becomes a devastating weapon, worthy of any mans arsenal. And the series itself, deals with the very basics of hand-hand combat, in a simple and clear way. We should be honoured, to have his skill involed in this sport. And if you do get the chance to shoot a protagonist, it would be very damaging, with the correct set-up ... Gosh!


Ive not read or seen any of the comments I have just posted to the title of this topic, of what I will use it for basically thats it to shoot from my bedroom window, I have other weapons and hand combat skills that I will use in other situations any object can be used to calm an aggressor ex: credit card pen coin anything hard no matter how small applied to vulnerable areas nerves and so on I also have a background in martial arts and street fighting ( keysi fighting method) , learning skills is not enough to deal with an aggressor you need the practical side of experience coming face to face with aggressive people on a regular basis and as slingshot sniper says being aware of your surroundings at all times we were also made aware of our surroundings , code orange when out and about in public at all times when you go out in public you see so many vulnerable people if you can spot them so can muggers,I was a taxi driver a few years ago and got my share of agressive drunks when you get four young aggressive youths drunk and from an area known to be rough and just came away from a street brawl and they are in your taxi bragging to each other about what they had just done you need to be on your guard, as then my taxi was a ford mondeo with no protection from those in the car with you, and at the end of the evening 3.30 in the morning onwards, driving down a country lane miles from home in an area you dont know that well was not a safe place to be especially with all your takings on you from that night, My kubaton was between my legs on the drivers seat and I would not have hesitated in using it against these youths had things turned nasty, worrying about what damage you may do to these people was something I did not think about, my wellbeing is and will always be at the top of my list, thinking of the consequences of what might happen to you if you get caught will almost certainly be your downfall. If your gonna worry worry after you are safe.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

Sorry if I gave you the impression I thought you were a doubter, Hawk; are you? I know the difference between theory and practicality, and I didn't think you were one of the people who thought otherwise.


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## hawk2009

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Sorry if I gave you the impression I thought you were a doubter, Hawk; are you? I know the difference between theory and practicality, and I didn't think you were one of the people who thought otherwise.


I think Iv'e jumped the gun here as I said I have not read the posts or seen the video's I read a very short sentance in your post about shooting somebody which followed my post I thought you were refering to me sorry about that, Obviously not i just commented on what I would use it for, it certainly would make a good defensive weapon as most hard objects would, I was just saying how I would use it as it can cover great distances a shot to the groin area would certainly drop someone and if it missed the groin he would certainly be quite bruised and unlikely to return to my property knowing what might happen to him.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

hawk2009 said:


> I think Iv'e jumped the gun here as I said I have not read the posts or seen the video's I read a very short sentance in your post about shooting somebody which followed my post I thought you were refering to me sorry about that, Obviously not i just commented on what I would use it for, it certainly would make a good defensive weapon as most hard objects would, I was just saying how I would use it as it can cover great distances a shot to the groin area would certainly drop someone and if it missed the groin he would certainly be quite bruised and unlikely to return to my property knowing what might happen to him.


Yes; I think it was the fact I put it straight after that caused the confusion.


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## Deltaboy1984

With strong enough bands and a heavy load it will kill just as sure as the Slings use in Bible days did. The Greeks and Romans had units of Slingers. Jorgs got some slingshots shots that would put a man out of business.


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## harpersgrace

Deltaboy1984 said:


> With strong enough bands and a heavy load it will kill just as sure as the Slings use in Bible days did. The Greeks and Romans had units of Slingers. Jorgs got some slingshots shots that would put a man out of business.


slings and slingshots two completely different animals.....


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## slingshot_sniper

Well if you had enough stones you could do some damage without either,death by stoning comes to mind


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## maljo

Just seen romainianshadow's video on youtube - his single band catty using a double length of 5 inch wide Theraband Gold to shoot a 20mm cast iron ball weighing over 30g looks like it could do very serious damage - see his 'The most simple slingshot' posted in the general discussion forum today (July 14 2011).
His comments on YouTube about the drawbacks of holding the band in the hand suggest to me that adding some sort of 'flip stick' handle, probably with a hand guard like Joerg's 'cutlass' slingshot would make for a very portable, very high-powered slingshot that could take out rather large game.


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## romanianshadow

maljo said:


> Just seen romainianshadow's video on youtube - his single band catty using a double length of 5 inch wide Theraband Gold to shoot a 20mm cast iron ball weighing over 30g looks like it could do very serious damage - see his 'The most simple slingshot' posted in the general discussion forum today (July 14 2011).
> His comments on YouTube about the drawbacks of holding the band in the hand suggest to me that adding some sort of 'flip stick' handle, probably with a hand guard like Joerg's 'cutlass' slingshot would make for a very portable, very high-powered slingshot that could take out rather large game.


Yes, but the destruction power is not the most important part when it comes to self defense. The most important is to have it there and then, armed and ready to shoot. With a slingshot (in general), *you can defend only if there is a distance between you and the attacker(s) and if the attacker advertises his intention*. In real life this happens only if the attacker doesn't really want to hunt you.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny

romanianshadow said:


> Just seen romainianshadow's video on youtube - his single band catty using a double length of 5 inch wide Theraband Gold to shoot a 20mm cast iron ball weighing over 30g looks like it could do very serious damage - see his 'The most simple slingshot' posted in the general discussion forum today (July 14 2011).
> His comments on YouTube about the drawbacks of holding the band in the hand suggest to me that adding some sort of 'flip stick' handle, probably with a hand guard like Joerg's 'cutlass' slingshot would make for a very portable, very high-powered slingshot that could take out rather large game.


Yes, but the destruction power is not the most important part when it comes to self defense. The most important is to have it there and then, armed and ready to shoot. With a slingshot (in general), *you can defend only if there is a distance between you and the attacker(s) and if the attacker advertises his intention*. In real life this happens only if the attacker doesn't really want to hunt you.
[/quote]
Or if he's arrogant.


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## Xidoo

I must state that it could be a persuaving weapon. Sometimes I hunt at places where it could not be recomendable for the people around. What I do to show them that they should not mess around with me is to take out my slingshot and load it at a shot distance and making sure that I am being seen. That keeps unwanted people away from me. Saludos.


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## dgui

There can be no doubt that if one believes that he is limited with his slingshot then he shall be.


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## Tobse

i am lucky that i have never need to defense my self so far







hope this will last the rest of my life. (almost the half already done)

if you use a slingshot for self defense... make sure you dont hit your hand just with this shot









i think a 20mm steel with full butterfly will made a good job at self defense.


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## flipgun

I'm very impressed with all of the quickdraw shooters I've seen and as far as my opinion on self defense capabilities? See my signature.


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## flipgun

Dang it! I forgot that I don't have one here!


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## Viper010

in the phillipines and indonesia they use slingshots as gang weaponry, combined with darts they call 'flechettes'

looks lethal to me, but only with enough practise and distance between you n the attacker ofcourse..

im looking into them for small game hunting though

cheers, remco


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## Viper010

as featured in the tv show 'ross kemp on gangs' , east timor episode i think. you can look it up on utube if you want. sorry, no link....


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## Incomudro

My friends and I used to walk around from wooded area to wooded area, crossing the streets in between, with lead balls loaded in the pouches of our Falcon II's.
The look of that Slingshot alone was a defense.
No bigger kids were going to screw with us.
A lead ball fired to the head from one of those Slingshots would certainly take down all but the most determined or insane of men.
21 foot rule?
Who would want to get closer than 21 feet from you when we had those Slingshots in hand?
Who would have the balls to rush you?


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## jazz

Hi dgui and all,

Thanks for posting this thread, if forced me to think, and I learned a lot just by reading many comments by our members!

I would like to give my contribution, mostly based on what I read here:

In my country there is a saying which wants to say that anything is possible, for example, somebody asks you: is it possible that you walk the street and a frog falls on you had? - of course it is possible, you'd say, and I can think of many reasons why that could be perfectly possible, therefore probable - so this saying says in cases like that: "_yes, it is possible, but even a broom can bang like a cannon, you know_!"; the unspoken part of this saying says: "under certain circumstances everything is possible, why not?".

So, yes, even a slingshot could be used like a defense weapon but I would say only under certain, very favourable circumstances.

The circumstances, if I understood many comments in this thread right, might be put like this:

1. Do we know that we are being attacked? - because there are situations when we don't; let us say that the probability is 0.5 since I can not know better;

2. If the answer above is Yes, then do we have our slingshot with us - because it is obvious that for this purpose, to use it as a defense weapon, one should have it, but not neccesarrily everyone does; This probability is individual and for me is only 0.7 which multiplied with previous 0.5 gives 0.5 x 0.7 = 0.35;

3. If we do have it with us, haw fast are we - not any slingshot shooter out there - but me, you, him, her concretely - how fast are we at drawing, loading and stretching the rubber? - my personal skills here if expressed as some percentage of good fast shots might be les than 20 in a 100, so, 0.2 which with the previous result gives 0.5 x 0. 7 x 0.2 = 0.07;

4. Where is the attack happening? - if from some decent feet away - and we have seen that 21 feet might be decent - then OK, but if we are attacked in an elevator, well, I think that it again depends on the size of elevator... maybe in, say, Australia, Canada, who knows where, elevators are so big that it would be reasonable to reach for the slingshot, load it, stretch it etc., but in my country it wouldn't work: by stretching the rubber in an elevator I would probably hit my elbow so hard against the wall of the elevator that the attacker would die of laughter; I guess that the probability of being attacked in the open from some ideal 21 feet away might be - who knows what, just for the math sake let it be 50% of the time which with the previous result gives us 0.5 x 0. 7 x 0.2 x 0.5 = 0.035;

5. Even if we do have distance/time that would allow us to come into the state of proper slingshot-shot-readyness the question is how proficient one is with fast, impulsive and PRECISE shooting (we have seen this above) BUT in the same time under deadly circumstances? - we have learned here that, yes, we humans do have weak spots where a good shot might either kill us, make us unconscious or hurt us a lot, therefore to stopp the attack, but, full of adrenalin, probably of fear etc. are you sure, even in the most favourable circumstances for you - that you can hit his weak spot? Or, to put it this way: if a lion attacks you and you have only a slingshot with you are you sure that you can hit the lion's **lls - surely the weakest point of most mamals...? just as some probabilities above, it is difficult to transfer this into a precise probability, it again depends on how someone stays cool in dangerous situations, to myself I would give a miserable 0.1% which with the previous results would give us: 0.5 x 0. 7 x 0.2 x 0.5 x 0.1 = 0,0035;

(But again - if we have no any other weapons with us except a slingshot and the lion is leaping at us I guess that we have no other choice but to try for the lions **lls..., er, I wanted to say: to stand those miserable 0.35% (now expressed as part of 100%));

7. But the attacker can be very strong and resistant to pain etc., so that the probability that he/she is a "weak" attacker who will back out because you placed a good shot let us say is, say, some 0.5 - so with previous results it is 0.5 x 0. 7 x 0.2 x 0.5 x 0.1 x 0.5 = 0.00175, or, 0.175%

8. And so on..

So, yes, just like a broom can bang like a cannon, a slingshot can be used as a defense weapon, but another interesting question arises here: if you have a gun and a slingshot with you when a deadly attack starts, which one would you draw out first?

It is quite likely that someone might think that I speak against slingshot being used as a defense weapon, but I do not, I just followed some basic probability rules, maybe not quite precisely and maybe in a humorous way to a certain degree, but that's what the math says, not so much me. And, one might think that I speak against using a slingshot as a defense weapon because the above probability came to be very small. But, is it small? A probability which is existent, that is, non-zero is still infinitely times biger than none, and if I have no other coice than however small chance I have I would be an idiot not to take it.

So, what is the value of this thread for me? I am now seriously thinking of figuring out what best design and amo would be for a slingshot as defense weapon, where to keep it, how to draw it etc etc. and practice, practice and practice...

thanks,

jazz


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## Hawkman

I once shot a juggling ball out of a catapult at my step brother. A suprise testicle shot which immobilised him long enough for me to laugh for a good 5 minutes! Ample time to run, reload, phone the police, put the boot in. Take your pick.
On a related note, my Dad also shot him once. With a tomato from the full length of the garden. Same effect, neutralised. In the right situation and the right hands it has stopping power.


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## waspdog

lets be honest,killing an attacker is very unlikley but, hit someone in the balls with a 9.5mm ballbearing from a decent slingshot and its game over!.for quite some time!.


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## theolithic71

Well, we may all just find out. If the US govt doesn't get to the real heart of the issues playing into the mass shootings we've had in the past few years, theyll be taking our guns.

After that, they'll find a way to take away slingshot. When catty's are outlawed, only outlaws will have catty's.


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## SzBalogh

Here in Hungary we are not allowed to have firearms with more power than 7.5J... :screwy: (I have both .44 Colt muzzleloader, Röhm RG 89 rubber capable blank and slingshot of course :naughty: )

But we can keep and shoot on our own territory blank guns kapable of fiering rubber balls. Revolvers, double barrel shotguns transformed to shoot 9mm Knall patrone with 8-12 mm rubber is allowed. Depending on the gun it has 30-100 J of energy.

Considering the bullet weight (0.5-1gram) it has wery low BC hence the projectile is losing the energy very fast. It is really inaccurete becouse the steel insert in the barrel preventing shooting real ammo. Even if it hits, it deforms and making only light wounds.

For us, slingshot seem excellent self defense oppotunity.

Will make comparison wideo for you, Röhm RG 89 vs my slingshot.


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## Dr Dave

I agree. A 9.5mm steel ball moving at over 100 feet/second aimed as a head shot is quite a deterrent. The speed of response is the only bad point. It takes far too long to bring a slingshot (catapult) into action.


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## Aefr

Dr Dave said:


> I agree. A 9.5mm steel ball moving at over 100 feet/second aimed as a head shot is quite a deterrent. The speed of response is the only bad point. It takes far too long to bring a slingshot (catapult) into action.


It can take less than a second if you practice. Ive been wanting to start practicing with a quick reload setup. I debating on whether or not to build a quick fire target training device with E-type silhouette for combat slingshot marksmanship.


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## Charles

Please tread lightly on this topic, my friends. Remember that there is a forum policy against advocating shooting humans.

Cheers .... Charles


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## Winnie

Throughout this discussion it seems people are confusing self-defense with hunting. If I sneak up on someone or, if I am hiding in ambush or throwing a stone over a wall or into a crowd etc. then it's really a type of hunting. If, however, someone surprises me and I grab a slingshot to protect myself then it's self defense.

My slingshots are loaded all of the time and are always in my pocket. Over the course of more than five years I have removed and shot quickly untold thousands of times and yet I would not consider them real self defense weapons. I could certainly threaten someone with one but when it came time to use it you've got a lot of things to get right - very fast and under great stress - in order to be effective.

A slingshot can be devastating if it were to hit someone properly but we're not talking about a rabbit out in a field here. We're talking about someone close enough to us to be an immediate threat.

I told the story a little bit ago on another thread how a friend that I had given one of my pre-loaded slingshots quietly removed it from her purse when a guy behind her at an ATM seemed threatening. She turned, drew back and told the guy to "get outta' here". The prospect of getting hit worked - but I wouldn't want to bank on it.

winnie


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## Susi

Lemme see here...a scenerio or two.

First scenerio...

Mugger comes from nowhere and demands your funds, cell phone and jewelry/watch. "Oh Mr. Mugger, would you be so kind as to stand over there a few yards while I hunt in my purse for my slingshot, then rummage around again for a ball or two and please stand still for me to shoot you in the $%@s."

Scenerio 2. I hear a thump or two in the night, it's 2AM. I just finished a delightful dream where I'm on a beach full of male models and lime daquiries for the taking. I'm disoriented but hear thumps and a crash of broken glass in the downstairs. Do I go hunting for my SS and ammo and stand on the staircase shooting into the dark at whatever? No. I kick Chuck in the butt and say, "Someone's making noise downstairs" and he graps the sawed off and heads carefully out....tah dah.

You can't shoot someone with a sling shot if they have you by the throat...read on.

Scenerio 3. In court I am asked by the criminal's (read prosecutor!) attorney, "If you had time to find, fumble, load and fire your slingshot putting out the eye of my client who never actually touched you, causing him brain damage besides behind the eye, why didn't you just scream or run?" Dah. My liability comany now has a permanent damage suit to pay off to the limit of coverage AND THEN SOME, forfeiting my house, car, all the way to my panty hose, and a disability suit to boot because now the criminal who never did actually assault me can't work as a girl watcher any more with only one eye, and my attorney now has to defend me again$t more $uit$ adnauseum.

Assaults mean close contact. Try to shoot a slingshot with someone's hand ripping on your throat or arm around your neck chocking you to oblivion WHILE his partner is relieving you of your valuables and groping you as a send off. And the purse or whatever holding your slingshot is now in the possession of the criminals. oops.

Sling shots are NOT personal defense weapons. Whatever is a good personal defense device is not the subject of this thread BUT slingshots are not personal defense weapons EXCEPT in your dreams of course. Period. "Stop right there, buster! Wait a minute or two til I can find my SS and do NOT cover up your privates so I can really hurt you and piss you off even more at me and and and..."


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## Susi

Hawkman said:


> I once shot a juggling ball out of a catapult at my step brother. A suprise testicle shot which immobilised him long enough for me to laugh for a good 5 minutes! Ample time to run, reload, phone the police, put the boot in. Take your pick.
> On a related note, my Dad also shot him once. With a tomato from the full length of the garden. Same effect, neutralised. In the right situation and the right hands it has stopping power.


Given distance, yes, possibly an SS will do more than piss off the assailant yet more BUT in court you nare asked by the criminal's attorney, "My client never touched you. Why did you put his eye out? Didn't you like his looks or ethnicity or something?" (Dahhh). An assault isn't by someone at a distance, he's on you like a spider on a fly. If that's the case you can NOT SHOOT a slingshot at him or anything else. Read what I wrote below.


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## Aefr

All i know is if someone is trying to break in to my house at 2am and i dont have a gun or bow, or any other weapon besides a slingshot built for shooting large rocks and heavy lead, i would use it. along with a call to 911 and a warning to the intruder to deter him or her, i would be confident that a jury would understand i took a responsible course of action in defending my household and family. And even if i give the intruder warning and he threatens to kill me and i choose to shoot to kill for fear of my life, i still would feel confident in court. *There is no questioning the power of a slingshot.*


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## harpersgrace

Lord how many more times is this topic going to be revived, yes a slingshot can be used as a defensive weapon, and so can my phone, a wine bottle, a pool ball, a pair of my unwashed socks, my girlfriends purse, the lamp by my bed, is it a ideal defensive weapon not really. Use a gun, pepper spray, a Taser, a good knife but if all you have is a slingshot and your life is in danger then use it like your life depends on it. Now can we please let it go.


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## Tentacle Toast

If there was a blade concealed within the handle I'd consider it a defensive weapon, maybe even if the fork itself was solid metal with weight. I wouldn't even factor in the bandset or ammo. If I'm using it against a person, I'm probably not going to be wanting to just give them a nasty booboo.


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## Tentacle Toast

...retractable piano wire lanyard?


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## Aefr

harpersgrace said:


> Lord how many more times is this topic going to be revived, yes a slingshot can be used as a defensive weapon, and so can my phone, a wine bottle, a pool ball, a pair of my unwashed socks, my girlfriends purse, the lamp by my bed, is it a ideal defensive weapon not really. Use a gun, pepper spray, a Taser, a good knife but if all you have is a slingshot and your life is in danger then use it like your life depends on it. Now can we please let it go.


lol, i think its an interesting topic. Why doesnt someone lock or delete it? i guess youre going to have to suffer when it gets revived. Why dont you just not read it?


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## Tentacle Toast

Aefr said:


> harpersgrace said:
> 
> 
> 
> Lord how many more times is this topic going to be revived, yes a slingshot can be used as a defensive weapon, and so can my phone, a wine bottle, a pool ball, a pair of my unwashed socks, my girlfriends purse, the lamp by my bed, is it a ideal defensive weapon not really. Use a gun, pepper spray, a Taser, a good knife but if all you have is a slingshot and your life is in danger then use it like your life depends on it. Now can we please let it go.
> 
> 
> 
> lol, i think its an interesting topic. Why doesnt someone lock or delete it? i guess youre going to have to suffer when it gets revived. Why dont you just not read it?
Click to expand...

There's two camps on the topic, & with the steady influx of new members, it's an often recurring theme. For some reason, it's one of those debates that just begs attention by way of our very human natures. We can all drive past the drunk pulled over, trying his or her very best, in vain, to perform field sobriety tests on the side of the road without giving a rat's ass, but the flaming 5 car wreck with charred & bloody limbs strewn about draws our focus, because it strikes home..."what if that was us?" "how would I be remembered?" we ask, as we ponder our wills, & how well we've planned our legacies; the fragility of life & our own mortality brought instantly to light by the smoldering carnage that lay before us. Is this analogy far-fetched? A gruesome accident, & an interweb debate on the efficacy of slingshots as adequate tools for self-defense? Maybe...maybe not...while we may be able to scroll past the "recent acquisitions" threads without caring enough to even read the header in its entirety, much less who authored it, our very essences, our innate desire for life -the very survival mechanisms that have allowed us to thrive & evolve as a species- do NOT allow us to "pass go" when the topic is, at its root, the viability of an item with which we can trust defending life in a situation that none of us want to be in, yet may be FORCED into at some point. Through my research (funded in part by the Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation -see my series of TED Talks), you're wrong, & I'm right.


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## namazu

Theee are so many variables when it come to self defense . In my humble opinion anything in that situation is better than nothing be it a gun,knife or a s.s. Just hope that it never happens but it doesnt hurt to be prepared .


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## kwinpr

If it's all you have then it's the best weapon. Better something than nothing.


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## kwinpr

kwinpr said:


> If it's all you have then it's the best weapon. Better something than nothing.


But certainly not ideal.


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## waspdog

if you hit any wouldbe assailant in the bollocks with just about any projectile from even the weakest slingshot, they will reasses their nefarious purposes and most likely choose a more peacefull path in life.or go bother someone else instead at least (who dosnt have a slingshot and a pocket full of steel balls)


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## pgandy

While 9mm steel balls are no slouch, what is so great about them? 9mm lead packs more punch. And .44 and .45 calibres better yet, and with lead even power. All of which are easily obtained. And there are those monsters that Jorge plays with. Don't forget the 3/8" and 7/16" steel cubes.


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## Cjw

First I'd make sure there's no sharp edges on your slingshot. That way when your assailant takes it away and shoves it up your A-- it won't hurt so bad.


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## Tentacle Toast




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## wll

This is a great thread, though it is from the past !

For use as a defensive tool, it very much possible ----- but it very much depends on the person with the sling in hand, and how it is set up, and being in condition Yellow or Orange ! !

Everyone knows that I'm a heavy ammo guy with tubes that match the ammo used. If someone were to need a sling for protection, lets say from rabid dogs, IMHO you would need to have that sling in your hand, ready to shoot and ammo in the pouch and pouch in hand.

You very much need a ammo/power combo that has lots of momentum ..... not fpe. If you were walking the streets and came across wild dogs, you would need to *STOP* them ... heavy ammo at high speed is what you need. You don't need a big slingshot, you need an efficient powerful set up, one with power !

If you are confronted with a wild dog, and need to stop him, chances are the range will be close to 10-12 yds at the very, very most. You want the momentum to knock your target down, smash it, turn him around so you can get away!

Your slingshot need not be big, but your ammo/power source needs weight and efficiency. In this type of situation I would not carry anything less than 200gr-300gr ammo ---- I need momentum !.

*As far as what I would carry !!!!!*

A Dankung (because they are thin, very strong and very pocketable) set up with 214gr or 314gr egg weights (One in the pouch held in place by a rubber band), a single tube using 3060, 3070 or 5/16" OD tubing, (just because it is cleaner and not likely to tangle in a moment of stress) , very powerful set ups. For me I would use a static length of 7.25-7.50 inches as the shot will be fast and I need maximum speed for draw length, my draw is 38 Inches .... this is not target shooting !

I would have 4 or 5 extra weights in my pocket, I don't need more. I figure if I have the opportunity to shoot 4 or 5 times and I'm still in trouble ...I might as well put my head between my legs and kiss my @@@ good by ! Remember, your first shot is far and away the most important, your life may depend on it ... make it count !

*On a major side note*.

There has been some testing going on in the past month or so with "square' ammo, this has really changed what a slingshot can do, as the ammo has a much great ability to penetrate than round ball ammo.

If I had 1/2" or 9/16" square ammo. I would use that as I bet (from testing I have seen) it would penetrate much deeper than the lead 214gr - 314gr egg weights or 5/8' steel balls I have tested.

wll


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## wll

.

*As far as what I would carry !!!!!*

A Dankung (because they are thin, very strong and very pocketable) set up with 214gr or 314gr egg weights (One in the pouch held in place by a rubber band), a single tube using 3060, 3070 or 5/16" OD tubing, (just because it is cleaner and not likely to tangle in a moment of stress) , very powerful set ups. For me I would use a static length of 7.25-7.50 inches as the shot will be fast and I need maximum speed for draw length, my draw is 38 Inches .... this is not target shooting !

I would have 4 or 5 extra weights in my pocket, I don't need more. I figure if I have the opportunity to shoot 4 or 5 times and I'm still in trouble ...I might as well put my head between my legs and kiss my @@@ good by ! Remember, your first shot is far and away the most important, your life may depend on it ... make it count

wll

As a side note to my last post. I have worked where the animal situation is very bad and folks leave their dogs out to roam the streets, and it is very scary..... a big can of animal defensive spry would probably be better, except the cans are pretty big, a sling is much smaller

I don't honestly know if you could use a sling to stop a dog attack, I have no idea the amount of fight a street dog has. If you got into it with a German Sheppard, Pit Bull, Doberman or the like, you would seriously need to clonk them on the head to stop an attack ..... if that. Square ammo may really help in this regard to stopping them.

Either way, I would not like to be in that situation at all, and stay away from areas that are know that people let there dogs free.(one of the main reasons I stopped riding bikes on street ways, getting chased by a dog is not fun)

The reason for my post on wild dogs is this ...... I was viciously attacked by a dog when I was very young and had my face in a German Sheppard's mouth and till this day a scars to prove it. I have a very serious fear of large dogs, hence the reason for these two post. I'm much more afraid of a large dog than any person, I can talk my way out of the human thing I think, give them whatever they want, an animal set on attack is a different matter.

This post was talking about a sling as a defensive tool, And I think protection from animals is one of them.

wll


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## Cjw

I've done many combat simulation hand gun courses . And from 25 feet a knife welding assailant is able to attack the gun carrying person before they could pull their gun and fire it. All most every time. And most dog attacks you don't see comming. So unless your walking with slingshot in hand with ball in pouch and bands already pulled back your dreaming. A stun gun will normally scare a dog away just the sound. And Fox Lab pepper spray would be better for the two legged predators. Know from experience .


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## wll

Cjw said:


> I've done many combat simulation hand gun courses . And from 25 feet a knife welding assailant is able to attack the gun carrying person before they could pull their gun and fire it. All most every time. And most dog attacks you don't see comming. So unless your walking with slingshot in hand with ball in pouch and bands already pulled back your dreaming. A stun gun will normally scare a dog away just the sound. And Fox Lab pepper spray would be better for the two legged predators. Know from experience .


I'm sure your right, my post does say you need the sling in hand and ammo in the pouch, pouch in hand, but 99.99% of the time that is not happening. In reality a cane or walking stick is probably a much better proposition.

The best thing is don't get in that situation to begin with. I don't walk around blocks I don't know, I don't go in unfamiliar areas. With all the knife fighting class I had in my youth, my teacher always said, be aware of your surroundings and if you see something you don't like, avoid it, don't be confrontational, back away, walk to the other side of the street ... when push comes to shove, then it is a different story. He was also very fanatic about never showing your fighting weapon, it is always a surprise, he also said, be prepared to get cut ... this is not the movies.

He was a great teacher and a martial arts expert, taught the LA PD for years.

wll


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## Cjw

Walking stick maybe ok for 4 legged predators but less than ideal for 2 legged variety . Weapons have a fighting radius . Like a bat if you have room to swing it its good. But if the person charges and is right on you it's useless . I taught martial arts and stick fighting for 18 years. Cane ,staff and Yawara stick.


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## Tentacle Toast

Ok, so let me preface the following images by saying that the two subjects are "best freinds"; we've known each other since age 11, & have managed to stay close throughout. We beat the shít out of each other with regularity; I've stabbed him through the foot, he's hit me with a car, we trained together (& honed ojr skills without gear & out of the ring), &...you get the point. I only mention this because I've had posts where I've JOKED about shooting somebody with a sling get deleted; I'm hoping that the nature of this thread will provide exception. In the first pic is my arm, shot through my shirt, all with .30 cal (5/16) at: point blank (center impact), roughly 12' (lower impact), & probably around 20ish' (upper impact):







...note the underlying swelling of the impact zone, but the only broken skin was of the "abrasion" kind. Unless I caught this square in the eye, I'm still coming for you. That's it. That's your one shot...to buy some time.

Since he shot me, it was my turn to shoot him, but I wanted to try .50 cal lead (.490). He thought that that wasn't a fair exchange, so we agreex on two shots to the thigh...through his sweatpants. The first shot, the nasty one, was from about the same distance as his second shot on me (about 12'). I don't even know if you can make out the second one to the immediate left in this pic, but that was spanning the entire length of his basement, so probably around 40'. It's barely even visible at that distance. Again, unless this was a hit to his eye...he'd still be coming for you, too:








I bring over fun stuff whenever we get together, & often test (the non-lethal stuff) it out on each other. This is from one of Wingshooter's starships, banded with TBG (flat).

We see the devastation these things do to material targets & SMALL game if we hunt, & I could see why some might think that these would be an option in self-defense. But large bodies are more resilient, & in the case of humans in particular, focused, intelligent rage is a side effect that must be considered when taking up "arms" against another...especially if they're already intent/provoked on committing violence upon you. If you do choose to use a banded fork in this scenario, please load it with an arrow..it's the only way that these could realistically be used in self defense.


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## Henry the Hermit

Under most circumstances, I would remove the post above, but I believe it serves a real purpose this time, and hope it will put to rest the dangerous idea of slingshots as defensive weapons.


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## wll

Henry in Panama said:


> Under most circumstances, I would remove the post above, but I believe it serves a real purpose this time, and hope it will put to rest the dangerous idea of slingshots as defensive weapons.


Well take everything I said and toss it out the window, I would have thought it would have done a lot more than that .... boy was I ever WRONG !

I would have thought the small ammo would have gone in the skin resulting in a trip to the hospital for sure .... I'm very surprised !

Great post for stopping any further fantasies of mine !

wll


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## pgandy

The title of this thread is "Slingshot as a Defensive Weapon" and I will stand by my statement. Having said that I will say that there are better weapons, however that doesn't mean that a person as access to them for a number of reasons. Aside from my military experience; considering in part, I say in part as I do not want to get into trouble (a fish wouldn't get caught if he kept his mouth shut), from what I have experienced as a civilian I have the following observations:

Pistol:

Will trump, but can cause more problems than they are worth. I got out of three tights with one, but have no desire to own another.

Open hand:

Last ditch method. I was able to do a knife take away. I was lucky and hope that I don't have to do that again.

Blowpipe:

It worked the two times I used it on attacking dogs. It had more reach than my cane and I could use it as a bo if necessary. I no longer need to rely on it.

Umbrella:

Got me out of three bad spots.

Brick bat:

Worked great but difficult to carry.

Sword cane:

Got me out of a fix once. I really like sword canes but the law has changed discouraging me from carrying one.

Cane:

My all time favourite and never leave the house without one. Works great on dogs, both two and four legged variety.

I carry and have tested others but the above are what have used in the streets. At present I carry Inferno, a cane, slingshot with one .50 cal. lead ball loaded and three more in my pocket, and two knives (as a tool more so than a weapon).

A note about slingshots in particular and others in general, clothing will offer a surprising amount of protection so know the pressure points. I find, and cannot over emphasize, the importance of speed and surprise. The best defence, bar none, is to avoid the situation. I know, it's not always possible.

Expanding on clothing protecting; I first became aware of this when testing throwing stars. Knit is the hardest to penetrate because of its stretch. Broadcloth is more likely to cut. With that in mind I threw a rug over a plastic bottle I intended to cut with a katana. Normally the katana would have halved the bottle. This time it left only a pin hole leak. The blunt trauma was evident. My rapier thrust through the same bottle protected by three rugs. Round balls are not the best for penetration.


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## Wingshooter

Tentacle Toast said:


> Ok, so let me preface the following images by saying that the two subjects are "best freinds"; we've known each other since age 11, & have managed to stay close throughout. We beat the shít out of each other with regularity; I've stabbed him through the foot, he's hit me with a car, we trained together (& honed ojr skills without gear & out of the ring), &...you get the point. I only mention this because I've had posts where I've JOKED about shooting somebody with a sling get deleted; I'm hoping that the nature of this thread will provide exception. In the first pic is my arm, shot through my shirt, all with .30 cal (5/16) at: point blank (center impact), roughly 12' (lower impact), & probably around 20ish' (upper impact):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 20150213_232453.jpg
> ...note the underlying swelling of the impact zone, but the only broken skin was of the "abrasion" kind. Unless I caught this square in the eye, I'm still coming for you. That's it. That's your one shot...to buy some time.
> 
> Since he shot me, it was my turn to shoot him, but I wanted to try .50 cal lead (.490). He thought that that wasn't a fair exchange, so we agreex on two shots to the thigh...through his sweatpants. The first shot, the nasty one, was from about the same distance as his second shot on me (about 12'). I don't even know if you can make out the second one to the immediate left in this pic, but that was spanning the entire length of his basement, so probably around 40'. It's barely even visible at that distance. Again, unless this was a hit to his eye...he'd still be coming for you, too:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> imagejpeg_0.jpg
> 
> I bring over fun stuff whenever we get together, & often test (the non-lethal stuff) it out on each other. This is from one of Wingshooter's starships, banded with TBG (flat).
> 
> We see the devastation these things do to material targets & SMALL game if we hunt, & I could see why some might think that these would be an option in self-defense. But large bodies are more resilient, & in the case of humans in particular, focused, intelligent rage is a side effect that must be considered when taking up "arms" against another...especially if they're already intent/provoked on committing violence upon you. If you do choose to use a banded fork in this scenario, please load it with an arrow..it's the only way that these could realistically be used in self defense.


Well I hope that puts things back into perspective. I know that it will let the air out of a lot of people that thought they had a real weapon in there hands. Slingshots can be dangerous but so can pencils.


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## lunasling

I 've seen the devastation a well made balanced sling can do and i think a well placed ball can kill or do some serious damage

my 2 cents .


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## Henry the Hermit




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## Cjw

If you look at statistics a 9mm hand gun or 38 special is not a guranteed one shot stopper. Think about that when you consider a slingshot.


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## pgandy

Would you believe about a decade ago the Mexicans armed their police department with slingshots after the army confiscated their arms?

I am no fan of the 9mm.


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## Tentacle Toast

pgandy said:


> Would you believe about a decade ago the Mexicans armed their police department with slingshots after the army confiscated their arms?
> 
> I am no fan of the 9mm.


LoLoLoL...wrong thread, brother...the jokes thread is that-a-way--->


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## wll

Cjw said:


> If you look at statistics a 9mm hand gun or 38 special is not a guranteed one shot stopper. Think about that when you consider a slingshot.


If truth be known 9mm, .40, 45 acp are pretty much crap... its all about bullet placement and a round the will penetrate to the vitals. Can't begin to tell you how many police officers I have spoken to back in the day that have had perps run off after being hit. This is not the movies, nobody gets knocked off there feet and blown backward.

wll


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## Tentacle Toast

I've got to disagree with you on the whole .45 bit, bud. That's my EDC, & its a one-shot man-stopper, unless you're a shít shot through & through...


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## wll

I've got to disagree with you on the whole .45 bit, bud. That's my EDC, & its a one-shot man-stopper, unless you're a shít shot through & through...

Handgun energy is anemic - 9, 40 and 45. Yes, their are degrees of anemic, but anemic non the less. Bullet placement, Bullet expansion and Bullet penetration are the most important factors.

wll


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## wll

Cjw said:


> Walking stick maybe ok for 4 legged predators but less than ideal for 2 legged variety . Weapons have a fighting radius . Like a bat if you have room to swing it its good. But if the person charges and is right on you it's useless . I taught martial arts and stick fighting for 18 years. Cane ,staff and Yawara stick.


Cjw,

Your statement is very true, that is why I try not to get in any difficult situations, no late night bars, no walking in an unfamiliar area, and a few others. Yes your "stick" has a fighting radius for sure and if the guy knows what he is doing and gets in ... chances are you will be screwed unless you know how to handle yourself without any tools by your side !

wll


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## honorary pie

Chances are (I think) a slingshot could be an effective OFFENSIVE weapon, but any scenario where you have time to pull it out and aim it is either unnecessary or ineffective.. A scare for a tweaked out intruder maybe, but any real work scenario requiring personal defense would be better suited to another weapon.. Assuming you're not firing arrows, flechettes, large squares or puppies. Don't laugh, ever been hit in the face with a puppy? Especially while atttacking somebody? No jokes.


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## David Brown

Most answers on this thread are quite ignorant. Of course a gun is better than a slingshot, stupid to mention it. There are a lot of public places where you can't bring a gun in. But if I were in Aurora Colorado and that freak started shooting, if he didn't shoot me first he will get a marble to the head. I am sure it would at least disable him enough to get control of him.


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## Tentacle Toast

David Brown said:


> Most answers on this thread are quite ignorant. Of course a gun is better than a slingshot, stupid to mention it. There are a lot of public places where you can't bring a gun in. But if I were in Aurora Colorado and that freak started shooting, if he didn't shoot me first he will get a marble to the head. I am sure it would at least disable him enough to get control of him.


...or completely give away your pposition to invite the next mag-dump...one or the other...


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## Cjw

David Brown said:


> Most answers on this thread are quite ignorant. Of course a gun is better than a slingshot, stupid to mention it. There are a lot of public places where you can't bring a gun in. But if I were in Aurora Colorado and that freak started shooting, if he didn't shoot me first he will get a marble to the head. I am sure it would at least disable him enough to get control of him.


 I've seen people take a bat to the head and still keep fighting. Stabed and still keep fighting. So if you think a slingshot is going to stop a crazed lunatic I wish you luck. I've been in fights in the real world , you'd be better off if you've got paracord lanyard swing it like an impact weapon. If I've only got 1 shot to defend my life it sure isn't going to be a slingshot. And if I did that would be ignorant.


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## lunasling

The element of suprise factors in here ! Ya do what ya can to difuse an issue


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## David Brown

Well you won't have a gun in that movie theater. There are circumstances where some guys are shot with a gun and still keep coming. It is about creating a chance where there is no chance. Some people on this thread would fall to there knees and start crying is someone opened up on them, but they talk trash here.


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## Cjw

And some of use deal with reality and have been in real world situations and have seen what works on the street and not in fantasy land.Ive been shot in the leg and attacked with a straight razor and am still here to talk about it. I know what works and what doesn't .


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## David Brown

Everybody deals with reality every day. But I am sure your day is more real than everyone else.


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## pgandy

Tentacle Toast said:


> pgandy said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you believe about a decade ago the Mexicans armed their police department with slingshots after the army confiscated their arms?
> 
> I am no fan of the 9mm.
> 
> 
> 
> LoLoLoL...wrong thread, brother...the jokes thread is that-a-way--->
Click to expand...

I thought that I would have trouble coming up with the info, but found it right off the bat with a Google Search. My memory had dimmed a little but I basically remember right.

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/16763344/ns/world_news-weird_news/t/tijuana-police-issued-slingshots/#.VX9pn_lViko


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## honorary pie

David brown. Wow dude, I hope Henry comes to you tonight, there is absolutely no need to try and glorify yourself with hypothetical heroism in a very real situation that took the lives of so many. You sir, are talking trash. And frankly, your slingshot fantasy is at the very apex of extreme. I hope you never have to see it through. Even if cwj has a very contrarian attitude, he's mostly correct in that a slingshot is a very poor defensive tool.


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## Cjw

I grew up in Norwalk Calif. where we had to deal with gang fights every other day.


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## David Brown

Not trying to glorify anything, like I said "creating a chance where there is no chance." You both know that if you hit some one in the head he will most likely go down. Why be a naysayer? Of course it is a poor defense weapon. But a weapon never the less. Most people grew up in tough neighborhoods, so what, it doesn't make you an expert. I don't own a gun, right now I don't need one. I will get one sooner than later, but for now my dogs let me know when someone is in my yard. I have a machete, big Bowie type knife and a few slingshots. I do live in the middle of the woods.


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## Tentacle Toast

Yeah, man...unless there was a blade tucked away in the handle, a sling is not going to ever be a viable weapon in a self-defense situation. Not used in the proper way with bands & ammo, anyway. Now if you've got yourself some training, your one of the guys that can turn a pepper grinder into a weapon of mass destruction...using a slingshot is going to, at best, cost you plan/escape time.

Here's a challeng for you...take your best hunting rig, & your most lethal ammo, & have someone shoot you in the forearm or thigh or wherever else you might feel comfortable taking a (not even scarring) mark. Then think back to the last time you were in a physical altercation with someone, be it horsein' around with a friend, in the ring, or in a fight...would that 1) stop you 2)slow you down, or 3) throw a gallon of gasoline onto your fire?

I think I'm going to get my hands on some of this square ammo, & in ghe meantime, I'm going to have my friend take a few more shots at me for demonstrative purposes using another lead .50 cal (this time without a layer of clothing), & a hexnut. Now I've got a thing about being caught on any type of film, but I'll post timestamped pics of the rig, ammo, as well as before & after pics of the affected area...if someone wants to point me to a place to get square ammo too, I'll give it a go with that also. You can see for yourself how little stopping power ANY of it would really have in any of these situations...

...it's seriously causing me very real concern that if something happens, some of you may seeiously consider using the sling that you'll likely have on you in some...way... Please don't. Please. I'll use any set-up you want...my buddy certainly won't mind (& I kind of enjoy it) so you can see first hand tbe ineffecctiveness of trying to disuade an intent human from accomplishing their task at hand. I know how impressive they are, but you aren't taking a lot of stuff into account. I mean the whole theatre shooting scene..."a marble to the head" so you can "disarm" them? You will not survive.


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## Cjw

David Brown said:


> Not trying to glorify anything, like I said "creating a chance where there is no chance." You both know that if you hit some one in the head he will most likely go down. Why be a naysayer? Of course it is a poor defense weapon. But a weapon never the less. Most people grew up in tough neighborhoods, so what, it doesn't make you an expert. I don't own a gun, right now I don't need one. I will get one sooner than later, but for now my dogs let me know when someone is in my yard. I have a machete, big Bowie type knife and a few slingshots. I do live in the middle of the woods.


. Maybe not an expert but I've seen people get hit in the head with things way bigger and heavier than a marble and didn't seem like it fazed them. And kept on fighting.


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## Cjw

You know how many times I've seen a rabbit hit and take off running, squirrels hit and take off even pigeons. And you think it's going to drop a 200 pound man with hurting people on his mind.


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## David Brown

Read what I said. It offers a chance where there is no chance. Better than nothing. Make sure your friend hits you in the head. VIDEO IT so we can be sure it won't hurt you.


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## David Brown

You are arguing for the sake of arguing. You know everything. Let Bill Hays hit someone in the head and he is done. I guess you are not that skilled.


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## Cjw

Hey knock your self out use it for defense just let us know where to send flowers.


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## Tentacle Toast

The divide in mindset appears to be split between people who seem to have experienced real shít, & people who seem to have remained sheltered from real experience. As godly as Mr. Hays may seem to you, I can assure you that he is as mortal as you or I, & can impart no magic on a sling that any of us already do on the daily. You're steadfast in your belief, & there's obviously no bout of logic or reason going to disuade you.


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## pgandy

I think maybe some are losing scoop. Self-defence can mean different things to different people. What one is defending against, the circumstances, what options one has, etc. play a part.

Life is funny. Sometimes wounds that should kill don't. I once caught my dog eating a rabbit. He had consumed the rear quarters up to the mid section. The rabbit was still alive. When I was a medic I saw severely wounded people do things that I didn't think possible and what seemed almost superficial have grave results.


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## Henry the Hermit

Oh, good grief! What is this? Eighth grade school yard?

This thread has long outlived its usefulness.


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