# lead cube ammo from silicon mold--



## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

i discovered it is possible to cast lead ammo in silicon miniature ice cube and cake decorating

molds awhile back , but had not found a good shape yet . found this one that has 160 cavities

and produces 3/8 x3/8 cubes. they weigh 170 grs. average , twice what a marble weighs

and three times that of 3/8 steel . definitely ` big bore ` ammo . production is real fast ,

you can make hundreds in no time ,and i think the mold will last thousands of rounds . no visible

damage yet , amazing stuff silicon . weight varies of course being cast without a top plate

but at reasonable distances i don`t think accuracy will be much affected. the green mold

produces shootable buckshot like shapes . think this would be good for hunting or long

distance shots. thanks for looking --frank


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## Winnie (Nov 10, 2010)

That is a really great idea fsimpson. Do you have a source for the trays?

winnie


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## jazz (May 15, 2012)

great idea, true!

What setup you use to shoot these cubes?

jazz


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## TheNewSlingshotGuy (Oct 11, 2014)

I used to shoot steel cubes you get from a sort of "jacks" style game called "kugelach"! They are really fun, and i have zipped them clean through a hanging 12oz soda can, and the can didnt move a molecule! Although, i haven't shot any recently, the thought of a hand hit or RTS with one of those scares me, even though i haven't had a fork hit in 2 years, and never had an rts.....


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

Winnie said:


> That is a really great idea fsimpson. Do you have a source for the trays?
> 
> winnie


 got them from a website called dealextreme ---

http://www.dx.com/p/160-small-silicone-ice-lattice-ice-tray-blue-407787#.VxbpCPkrLX4


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

jazz said:


> great idea, true!
> 
> What setup you use to shoot these cubes?
> 
> jazz


 i`ve got several large slingshots with linatex bands that should be safe with these(` junkyard dogs`below) . basicly anything powerful

enough to shoot 1/2 lead balls and good fork width will work good . i think i will try a pouch like chuck daehler

makes for his cylinder ammo to help with pouch fouling and reduce the chance of return to senders---- what ever you do be careful ,i haven't shot enough of these to know how they will act --------frank


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

I have been thinking of making a cube mold for some time. But this looks great. I will definitely give these little cube trays a try.

Cheers .... Charles


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

A noted maker of SS frames that have swivel forks uses steel cubes, really, cubes and cylinders work the same and I much prefer non spherical ammo myself. Sure, those cubes are some pretty seriously heavy ammo but there is use for that.

Let's do a little solid geometry. This will surprise you on spheres vs cubes.

If a 9mm cube could be made, that would fill the bill for hunting and target both. Here's why and this would be heavy ammo.

A cube has about twice as much mass than a sphere of the same size/diameter so the size may fool you mass wise.

Let's see how spheres vs cubes stack up for a 9mm diameter ball and a 9x9x9mm cube. You will be surprised at the huge difference in volumes.

A 9mm cube for example 9mmx9mmx9mm =.79cc whereas a 9mm sphere's volume is (4/3) pi r^3 figures to only 0.38cc. This means a 9mm cube's volume is just over twice as much as a 9mm sphere's volume which translates to a cube's mass is about twice as much mass as the same diameter sphere. That's a whole lot of difference in mass, amigos, and it's sort of an optical illusion as to the huge mass of a cube and the much much lesser mass of a sphere.

Let's compare those solids to a 9mm x 9mm cylinder. That figures to .57cc volume.

To check my calculations on a sphere, please refer to
http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/geometry-solids/sphere.php

And for a cylinder:
http://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/geometry-solids/cylinder.php

So here is how it stacks up.

9mm diam sphere = .38cc
9mm x 9mm cylinder = .57cc
9mm cube = .79cc

Yet all these will feel about the same in the pouch pinch!

Solid geometry to the rescue.

A cube's points may cause more trauma than a round sphere as well, making it more apt for hunting.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

My hour glass pouch design Mr. Simpson posted works well for me and with all the thousands of rds I've shot with them, I've never had a RTS or fork hit. In fact I've never had an RTS ever...I didn't know such existed until I joined this forum. All the more reason however for eyewear.

Matt, YSYEO, tried holding the ammo and not the pouch and said it worked better for him...dunno Matt's final opinion but it seemed to work better in one session he described. With the hour glass design, tailored to the ammo dimension, you get strength of the pouch where the bands attach, no need for a center hole, and yet less air resistance and less mass than a straight pouch and also it's self centering in that you can see straight away if the ammo is correctly positioned in the pouch and it just seems to nestle in there right. My pouches are more rounded on the ends than the drawing suggests, more like a figure 8ish, the drawing was made quickly using Windows Paint, so pouches can be made more streamlined and lighter than the drawing suggests.

I really like the little heart ammo... just right for the bleeding hearts against hunting... remind them you have heart for beasties. LOL

Remember, folks do quite well with just hex nuts proving a symmetrical ball for slingshots is in competition and rightly so, with other ammo geometrics. Remember also that most game is taken with SSs at less than 15 meters...we are not doing precision silhouette shooting at 1000 yds at 2800 fps muzzle vel where a microscopic difference in bullet configuration can miss a target.

I made "UFO ammo" out of lead. I made a mold using an ordinary drill bit as the cherry, the point, and the slugs came out like a fat disk but pointed on each side like some UFOs seen, and flew fine at 15 meters...in fact they go so fast they make up for their light weight and sail through steel cans especially if at point of impact they are on edge...sort of like fat Frisbees. The image of that has been lost in my gallery for some reason or I'd post a link.

I've cast plenty of figurines out of pewter using silicone molds when I was a jeweler... to enhance sales and as give aways to preferred customers. Silicone does fine with lead alloy temperatures.

You might make an experiment and weigh each round and categorize them in rough groups according to weight to see if consistency of impact seems to vary. I doubt it would make a lot of difference but just for fun....


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

You might make an experiment and weigh each round and categorize them in rough groups according to weight to see if consistency of impact seems to vary. I doubt it would make a lot of difference but just for fun....

i use to weigh each individual cast bullet when i competed in metallic silhouette handgun matches and sort

by weight . did not make much difference except on turkeys and rams at 175 and 200 yards .

i weighed some of these cubes and they varied as much as 30 grains . however as heavy as they are

won't matter much at reasonable distances --------

.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

That's true, in line with what I said above, at the distances we shoot and the velocities it doesn't make much diff if any. The reason most of us shoot I think is to relax and for the enjoyment value, for me at least it isn't important if I can light a match or cut a card (and I can't) or to win a SSOTM medal (I would never even try), although I'm not discounting the importance of such to many individuals...it's what ever makes us happy as individuals that is important, one of the prized secrets of life.

As to distance accuracy, I did weigh bullets for bench rest, weighed powder too..results were double holes at 200 yd, the limit of my vision and the 9x scope, allowing the barrel to cool down 1 minute between shots after a quick three shot warm up. It wasn't because I was infatuated with accuracy, it was just an experiment to see just how accurate a somewhat enhanced Rem 788 could be with meticulously done home loads and cheap flat based Winchester soft point 180gr.

I think your silicone molded cubes are a screaming success and an ideal ammo and an ideal way to make it. You experimented and found success, that's one of the golden charms we get from the treasure chest of life. The idea is to make do with what we have as resources as cheaply and simply as possible yet produce excellent results, that is one of the marks of intelligence not found on IQ tests and is the most practical use of intelligence. I give you an A+. If you could find smaller cube molds, which I doubt, that would even further enhance your ammo selection...that shot silicone mold also displayed in your photo sure looks practical as well. I found that ordinary caulk silicone also works for lead molding although I used a catalyzed RTV most of the time since it was faster to cure (over night) instead of waiting a month for the caulk to thoroughly cure.

BTW, I cast bullets, copper gas checked of course for my Rem 308, they shot pretty darn well too, I backed off the velocity of course to around 1000 fps so they wouldn't lead the barrel, lubed with pure bees' wax using a Lyman sizer/lubricator which also installed the gas checks at the same time. I didn't shoot much cast bullets however so Ididn't work up a sweet load but got about 3 inches at 100 yd which wasn't too impressive.


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## truthornothing (May 18, 2015)

I may have to look into this, after reading Some of Charles posts I ordered some .357 wadcutters. Some from Bill and some copper Jacketed ones from another supplier. I don't like to handle lead that much. If I like them the cubes may be the next step


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

truthornothing said:


> I may have to look into this, after reading Some of Charles posts I ordered some .357 wadcutters. Some from Bill and some copper Jacketed ones from another supplier. I don't like to handle lead that much. If I like them the cubes may be the next step


 lead is safe to handle and work with if you take some basic precautions . wash your hands after handling and before eating or

drinking . don`t smoke while handling lead ( hands near mouth ) . don`t breath the fumes when casting and fluxing

(cleaning ) lead . always cast outside in a well ventilated area . i was a  printer for 25 years , handling lead every day

and don`t have elevated lead levels .


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## truthornothing (May 18, 2015)

fsimpson said:


> truthornothing said:
> 
> 
> > I may have to look into this, after reading Some of Charles posts I ordered some .357 wadcutters. Some from Bill and some copper Jacketed ones from another supplier. I don't like to handle lead that much. If I like them the cubes may be the next step
> ...


Good to know, I get paranoid everytime I shoot my lead .44 and .50 balls. I will be less so now as I always wash my hands after. thanks


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

There is a lot of misimformed "fear" associated with lead and touching it, working with it etc.. As Fsimpson said, ordinary common sense precautions will prevent any significant lead from entering one's body. Think of the hundreds of thousands of tons of it was spewed into the air/environment by cars burning leaded gasoline (I only used Sunoco but what the hey) until unleaded gasoline came around...and I didn't hear a thing about elevated bodily lead.

I've cast lead since childhood, then, 1000s of slingshot balls galore and 148gr semi wad cutters for dad and my .357s.

Just wash up with a nail brush and Boraxo (my fav for it really routes out the grime), cast in open air inside the garage a bit for shelter from the elements (rain drops and molten lead spell lead explosion) but right at the door where air can change. I've cast for many hours in the winters in my home shop in the basement when young too. completely enclosed, no lead issues still.

If you want to make lead ammo and shoot it, by all means do so, just head the cautions above. If you want to use rubber gloves when handling it, that's fine, whatever makes you mentally secure. But you don't have to.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

This has been said on lead threads before but just want to reiterate, shooting range backstops (Earth) are virtual lead mines if the range is used a lot..the pistol range actually. I mined over a ton of it in our range's pistol/combat range.

Get 1/4 inch hardware cloth, stretch it over a wood "shaker frame" made of 2x2s with two handles on each side/end. Staple it in place or use bent nails to fasten it. One guy on one end and the other on the other end, shovel in range dirt, shake, rocks and bullets will be left. Wet earth won't shake, it balls up. Wait for a couple dry days to dry the dirt out then go indroduce yourself to the range official.

Junk yard wheel weights are fine, I use 'em a lot, skim off the oxide and steel clips and you have casting metal. Care when buying, now days with the lead scare and price, note square solid steel stick on wheel weights when buying, they are not lead, Fred. Select the longest biggest wheel weights if you can, the lead to junk steel clip ratio is more favorable if you get large weights as opposed to medium or small ones.


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## aiping (May 31, 2016)

Great idea!!! And, if you use lead from a car battery this tiny cubes are also quite hard due to the Antimony in it.


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

aiping said:


> Great idea!!! And, if you use lead from a car battery this tiny cubes are also quite hard due to the Antimony in it.


 i don`t know from personal experience , but i `ve heard you should be very careful melting car battery plates

because the acid produces particularly bad fumes .might check into that and be very careful . i luckily have good supply

lead wheel weights which are quite hard ...good luck


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## aiping (May 31, 2016)

Very important remark!

Thanks. I tried it only once with a small scooter battery, purged out the acid with a lot of water and than burned the battery outside with some safety distance. The amount of lead was a disk of about 10 cm and 5 mm thick. Not so much.

Sorry for my negliance not to remark safety issues.


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## aiping (May 31, 2016)

...of course purging the acid out by wearing full closed safety glasses and rubber gloves!


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## aiping (May 31, 2016)

yeah, I remember, as the battery was quite old there was a lot of orange sediment in it.

Weel weights are defenetly the much more safer 
source. Thanks for the tip!

Forget the battery.


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## SteelBallViking (Apr 6, 2014)

That's some brutal ammo.

Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk


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## aiping (May 31, 2016)

yes. It can only be topped by tungsten carbide fishing sinker balls. But that's a NO GO for me to get them from China...


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

RatGod13 said:


> That's some brutal ammo.
> 
> Sent from my SM-S820L using Tapatalk


 ratgod --and its fast and easy to make .i have 2 trays and let one cool while i`m pouring the other . you can make

10 lbs of them quick ..takes a powerful slingshot to shoot the lead `hearts ` they are heavy...


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

I just got 4 of those 1 cm cube trays, and I hope to be casting cubes before long. Thanks for the idea!

Cheers .... Charles


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## Bob E (Mar 23, 2015)

I saw this interesting video on youtube a while ago. I never heard of "cut lead" before, but if I cast anymore slingshot ammo this is probably the way I'll go.


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

you`re welcome charles . with 4 trays you can have your own cube factory . i only fill about half of the cavities on

each tray pour cause it makes them easier to handle , cool faster , and safer to move ( even 80 or so full cavities are

heavy ) you need some plywood or something under the tray to support it . ,and close to the pouring spout on your pot. hope fully you will have a thread about how they shoot ----happy casting --------frank


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## fsimpson (May 13, 2014)

Bob E said:


> I saw this interesting video on youtube a while ago. I never heard of "cut lead" before, but if I cast anymore slingshot ammo this is probably the way I'll go.


 bob -- thanks very interesting . surprised they were as accurate as they were , they could not touch the sides of the bore much .

heres the only other gun i`ve heard of that shot square bullets --beside blunderbusses ,swivel guns etc.

http://www.historic-uk.com/HistoryUK/HistoryofBritain/The-Puckle-or-Defense-Gun/


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