# Looped Tubes Now, Looped Tubes Forever



## M.J

I've been shooting slingshot for about eight years. For seven of those years my go-to setup has been looped Chinese tubes. For most of that time I've shot 2040s, but also 1842 and 1632.
I've also shot pretty much everything else. Flat bands in thick, thin, long, short, fat, skinny, and every other configuration. Chained rubber bands. Along with traditional big tubes. About the only thing I haven't shot is English square rubber.
I keep coming back to loops because they fit right in the sweet spot of a venn diagram that includes speed, draw weight, and longevity. Also, I shoot well with them because I've practiced a lot. If people tell you that looped tubes aren't accurate, know that the problem is them, not the setup. 
I've been living in a place all summer where I don't have easy access to materials and I couldn't bring very much with me. After being in this situation, it seems ridiculous to need a roller cutter and a mat and a special ruler to cut a set of flats that will last 200 shots. I can make a set of loops with only a pair of scissors and I can do it basically anywhere. I tie mine with string but if I didn't have string I could cut a little cuff of tube and use that as a tie. And they'll last 2000 shots or more.
Are they heavier and slower than optimized tapered flats? Yep. Don't care. For what I want to do I only need a reliable trajectory out to about 25 yards, which is no problem. 
I'm going back to the States soon and will be focusing on hunting. 2040 and 3/8" steel for doves and pigeons, 1842 and 1/2" for rabbits and squirrels. If I had to only have one setup it would be 2040s and 7/16" steel, which would take feathers and fur with good shot placement. 
Did I mention that they're all but silent when you shoot? I can shoot down by the river at my local urban park without raising eyebrows, as long as I'm otherwise stealthy. 
When I go to tournaments I usually feel like the last person on earth that shoots looped tubes. That's ok. I'll stick with my SPSs and round-top Dankungs and keep the faith until everybody else comes around


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## 3danman

Good post MJ. I went through a phase of shooting 1632 loops with 5/16" steel. Plenty powerful for satisfying target shooting and excellent longevity. I could happily choose that as my only setup if I had to.


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## Tag

With looped tubes you eliminate the cuffs tied at the slingshot, which in my opinion is less wear and tear. With 1632 looped tubes I get a very smooth draw and plenty of power for the type of shooting. Great post MJ


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## treefork

No need to justify . Shoot what ever you want . :iono:


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## BushpotChef

Nice write up MJ I too like looped 2040s. Draw light like targets tubes, hit hart like hunting tubes.

The .40 cal of slingshots lol.

Sent using two thumbs and Tapatalk.


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## SLINGDUDE

i like loops too, especially for convenience of band changes.


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## M.J

treefork said:


> No need to justify . Shoot what ever you want . :iono:


Not trying to justify, just starting a discussion on this here discussion forum.


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## hoggy

i like the looped tubes as well.


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## Hulla Baloo

As you can see, the subject has rationalized the speed disparity.

A moment of silence please... :shakehead:


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## Alfred E.M.

*M.J - You make a good case for full loops. This was to be my year to fully explore flats, but the biggest discovery so far is my underlying preference for tubes ... maybe bc I've used them for so long. I hunt only inanimate targets with small ammo which allows me to object visually and philosophically to full loops - I prefer a clean single tube with a small loop, tuned to full gallop at reasonable target distances. Different strokes but don't we agree, it's all good. *


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## Luck over skill

Wish I could find a set of tubes I like, I’m also going on a trip where I won’t have the option to cut my flats, I better start trying all the tubes out there lol


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## M.J

Hulla Baloo said:


> As you can see, the subject has rationalized the speed disparity.
> 
> A moment of silence please... :shakehead:


Is the forum over now?


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## trapperdes

While I have never got a long quite as well with looped tubes I still prefer tubes because of their longevity. Excellent post!


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## Hulla Baloo

I actually purchased some toobz when I reentered the hobby. A bunch of different sizes. They sit in the back-right corner of an old boot box I use to store slinging elastics. I see them there sometimes, all coiled-up. Probably no good after all this time. Still, I'm glad I found out how slow they were before I opened any of the packages. I'm sure that would have hastened their disintegration.


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## M.J

Hulla Baloo said:


> I actually purchased some toobz when I reentered the hobby. A bunch of different sizes. They sit in the back-right corner of an old boot box I use to store slinging elastics. I see them there sometimes, all coiled-up. Probably no good after all this time. Still, I'm glad I found out how slow they were before I opened any of the packages. I'm sure that would have hastened their disintegration.


If they're kept out of the sun they should last indefinitely. 
If you need someone to use them up for you, I'm in the book!


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## oldmiser

*Nice Post MJ..Very well said for full loop tube's.... You bet 2040 I my Favorite Choice.......Being 1632 is fun for BB'S..*

*akaOldmiser*


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## BushpotChef

I just like to add that I think one of the main reasons 2040s are an effective tube set for me is because they last so long. What I mean to say is the longevity contributes to consistency which contributes in Turn to accuracy.

Sent using two thumbs and Tapatalk.


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## Covert5

I was shooting bands before and when I discovered tubes, I just can't go back. The longevity, the simplicity, ease of carry, and no tangles is what sold me!


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## mattwalt

I am also a huge fan of looped tubes - all the same reasons.


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## ash

MJ, could you post a picture of your tubes tied at the pouch, please? That's the part that has most put me off looped tubes - the clunky mass of doubled tube ends.


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## M.J

Sure, man. There you go.
I tie them pretty much like you would flats. Put a loose constrictor knot on the pouch, clamp the pouch end, clamp the tubes, put the clamps on your tying jig so as to get a good amount of pre-stretch, bring down the knot and tie tight, trim the excess.


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## skropi

I only shot single tubes for around 30-40 shots. I am not sure I can come to love them though. Not to mention I have enough of slingshot related identity problems already


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## M.J

I don't like single toobz nearly as much as loops.


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## skropi

M.J said:


> I don't like single toobz nearly as much as loops.


If I get the chance, I will try some tubes for sure. I am open to all options related to slingshots.


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## MOJAVE MO

New old guy chiming in. I didn't know flats existed until I surfed through the googleverse and found you guys about 6 months ago. Since I was shooting a 33 year old WristRocket at the time I figured that my kit was still the latest and greatest tech to come along.

So I start surfing the forum, taking advice, flinging cash, and getting myself into the groove of shooting flats. Tools, tired tying fingers, techniques and near blindness brought me to the flats. Then I posted a comment about 'tubes are indeed old fashioned' which brought a comment from either M.J. or CjW who basically said, "Sounds like you don't know how to shoot tubes!"

BALDERDASH I say! So I grabbed that damned SS Torque (un-clone) and starting shooting the crap out of it banded with the stock 2040 tube set. Then one magical day I hit 8/10 after the first two missed. And guess what else? Fast steel balls flying straight, quiet and no funky hand slap or extra noise. AND--------I learned quickly to get frustrated by untangling a TTF setup vs. an OTT setup vs. a Tube Setup.

Now the plan is to convert my favorite few slings over to TUBE shooters, or put all of my gear in a bag and trade it in for an SPS and stop making myself believe that I need a golf bag full of slings!

MM


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## MOJAVE MO

New old guy chiming in. I didn't know flats existed until I surfed through the googleverse and found you guys about 6 months ago. Since I was shooting a 33 year old WristRocket at the time I figured that my kit was still the latest and greatest tech to come along.

So I start surfing the forum, taking advice, flinging cash, and getting myself into the groove of shooting flats. I got some tools, some tired tying fingers, and some new techniques and near blindness and madness learning to manage the flats. Then I posted a comment about 'tubes are indeed old fashioned' which brought a comment from either M.J. or CjW who basically said, "Sounds like you don't know how to shoot tubes!"

BALDERDASH I say! So I grabbed that damned SS Torque (un-clone) and starting shooting the crap out of it. Then one magical day I hit 8/10 after the first two missed. And guess what else? Fast steel balls starting flying straight, quiet and no funky hand slap or extra noise! AND--------I learned quickly to get frustrated by un-tangling a TTF setup vs. an OTT setup vs. a Tube Setup.

Now the plan is to convert my favorite few slings over to TUBE shooters, or put all of my gear in a bag and trade it in for an SPS and stop making myself believe that I need a golf bag full of slings!

MM


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## Hulla Baloo

Gotta be honest. When I came back to slingshots and cut my first set of tapered flats I fell in love with the speed. The first time I shot tubes since the wrist rocket days of yore was with Byudzai's Flatcat. I loved the rig but found the stock looped tube set that came with it to be painfully slow with 3/8 steel. I made a set of pseudos for it but those too were slow. Maybe I'm doing it wrong...

This is what I'm working with:










What's your best recommendation to approximate 3/4 X 5/8 X 7" active, TBG flats, hurling 7/16 steel?


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## Fiveshooter

M.J said:


> I've been shooting slingshot for about eight years. For seven of those years my go-to setup has been looped Chinese tubes. For most of that time I've shot 2040s, but also 1842 and 1632.
> I've also shot pretty much everything else. Flat bands in thick, thin, long, short, fat, skinny, and every other configuration. Chained rubber bands. Along with traditional big tubes. About the only thing I haven't shot is English square rubber.
> I keep coming back to loops because they fit right in the sweet spot of a venn diagram that includes speed, draw weight, and longevity. Also, I shoot well with them because I've practiced a lot. If people tell you that looped tubes aren't accurate, know that the problem is them, not the setup.
> I've been living in a place all summer where I don't have easy access to materials and I couldn't bring very much with me. After being in this situation, it seems ridiculous to need a roller cutter and a mat and a special ruler to cut a set of flats that will last 200 shots. I can make a set of loops with only a pair of scissors and I can do it basically anywhere. I tie mine with string but if I didn't have string I could cut a little cuff of tube and use that as a tie. And they'll last 2000 shots or more.
> Are they heavier and slower than optimized tapered flats? Yep. Don't care. For what I want to do I only need a reliable trajectory out to about 25 yards, which is no problem.
> I'm going back to the States soon and will be focusing on hunting. 2040 and 3/8" steel for doves and pigeons, 1842 and 1/2" for rabbits and squirrels. If I had to only have one setup it would be 2040s and 7/16" steel, which would take feathers and fur with good shot placement.
> Did I mention that they're all but silent when you shoot? I can shoot down by the river at my local urban park without raising eyebrows, as long as I'm otherwise stealthy.
> When I go to tournaments I usually feel like the last person on earth that shoots looped tubes. That's ok. I'll stick with my SPSs and round-top Dankungs and keep the faith until everybody else *comes around *


*MJ, I have been shooting almost exclusively flats for the past year or so. I find them easy to tie and in any thickness I like. I've only been tying flats from the past year but it dawned on me I have no reason not to tie and use tubes. I have some fairly high end Chinese and American tube shooters but until I tied my own set for the first time just last night I have never really had optimum length tube sets to use. I have about 20 sets from SPS all tied to a length for full butterfly which I don't shoot and before I started tying anything myself I tried some tube sets from Simple Shot. These are also too long for my use. Any Chinese slingshot I have ever bought came with tube sets either too short, too heavy or both. Now that I can make my own sets at the correct length for me I'm wanting to experiment more with tubes. I have some various sizes on hand but I tied a set of 1632s last night and shortened a set from Simple Shot to my liking. The 1632s are fairly easy to draw and hold but certainly slower than my flats at about the same draw weight. I am hoping you can recommend a tube size that will be somewhat faster than 1632 but not much more draw weight. I personally notice a slight accuracy decline from tubes as opposed to flats but as you mentioned this is the shooter (me) and not the setup. I've seen plenty of videos of Chinese shooters making long range head shots on pheasants with tubes so I'm fully aware they have great accuracy potential. The downside to shooting only flats is band life for me and I want to start enjoying some of my tube shooters more. The 1632s shoot well but what would be the next logical size I should try for a bit more speed? Thanks in advance for any advise you can give.*


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## Northerner

The next step up in power from 1632 would be 2040. I noticed that GZK has 1636 but I have never tried this size so can't comment.

I found that a set of double Premium Grade 2040 will get 3/8" steel going 200 fps with my 32" draw length (6 1/2" doubles). The regular grade was about 15 fps slower for me and my shooting style.


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## goodflite

I like bands a bit better than tubes but I like tubes well enough to keep 3 shooters tubed up. I use them when the the snap, snap, snapping sound of bands gets to me. That snap is just one of those sounds that gets to me for some reason. Sometimes it does, then it doesn't, then it does, then it doesn't. I do find that some brands are less offensive than others. For example. Theraband is more tolerable than natural latex-and the sound of Precise doesn't set me off as much as the others. It's like my flat bands are mocking me sometimes-but at other times, I embrace them. Is that weird?


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## M.J

I use 3/8"steel with 1632 for plinking. I have them at 6.75" active for a 41-42" draw length, so 605-615% stretch. 
The 2040 sets I have are 7.25" active, so 560ish% stretch.
The 2040 are faster and heavier, but I couldn't say by how much. On warm days the difference seems very small but 1632s hate the cold more than pretty much anything I've shot.
So I guess my advice is to shoot for around 600% stretch and go from there :thumbsup:


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## Flatband

MJ, as good as you shoot, you could stretch cardboard bands or tubes and still hit the target!!!!!! Looped cardboard???? :rofl:


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## M.J

Hulla Baloo said:


> Gotta be honest. When I came back to slingshots and cut my first set of tapered flats I fell in love with the speed. The first time I shot tubes since the wrist rocket days of yore was with Byudzai's Flatcat. I loved the rig but found the stock looped tube set that came with it to be painfully slow with 3/8 steel. I made a set of pseudos for it but those too were slow. Maybe I'm doing it wrong...
> 
> This is what I'm working with:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What's your best recommendation to approximate 3/4 X 5/8 X 7" active, TBG flats, hurling 7/16 steel?


I know some guys swear by pseudo tapers, but I'm not one of them. I find them very fiddly to make and then not as fast as tapered flats but not lasting any longer either. I'd rather just cut flats.
As I recall, the original Flatcat came with some type of small tube that was really, really slow. I talked with Alex about it later and he basically said "I don't know what I was thinking with those tubes."
I wish I had a recommendation for you that would match up well with your goal of 3/4-5/8" tbg, but I don't. You didn't mention your draw length, but that cut with 7/16" seems like it would be pretty light drawing and not terribly fast. Maybe single 1842s at close to 600% stretch would be close, but I'm not sure.


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## Fiveshooter

M.J said:


> I use 3/8"steel with 1632 for plinking. I have them at 6.75" active for a 41-42" draw length, so 605-615% stretch.
> The 2040 sets I have are 7.25" active, so 560ish% stretch.
> The 2040 are faster and heavier, but I couldn't say by how much. On warm days the difference seems very small but 1632s hate the cold more than pretty much anything I've shot.
> So I guess my advice is to shoot for around 600% stretch and go from there :thumbsup:


Thanks, I'm pretty sure I have at least one (or more) 10 meter roll of 2040 here so I'll give that a shot probably tonight. I didn't mention earlier but I shoot 3/8" steel almost exclusively. Thanks for the input.


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## Fiveshooter

*I just checked my stock and I have the following:*

*1632 Dankung orange (2) 10 meter rolls*

*1632 Unknown brand orange (1) 10 meter roll*

*1745 Dankung black (1) 10 meter roll*

*1842 Dankung amber (1) 10 meter roll*

*2040 Dankung black (2) 10 meter rolls*

*2550 Dankung black (1) 5 meter roll.*

*I had no idea what I was doing when I ordered the stuff but it's all fresh and at least I am sure I have plenty of 1632 and 2040 to experiment with.*

*Life is good *


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## JPD-Madrid

Yes. there are lots of chinese shooters still sick to looped tubes, even though most of tournament winner are using the flat bands. the tubes has good durability and can be setup quickly and easily.


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## Fiveshooter

*I decided to tie up 3 in 1632 at 1/2" shorter than what I had first tried and the slight difference in length does appear to make a good deal of difference in speed. I feel like I'm getting optimal stretch now and 3/8" steel is plenty zippy enough. I also tied up 3 in 2040 at the same length. Both shoot well for me but I'm feeling a little more comfortable with the 1632 draw weight. They are tied but I added cuffs to all them anyway just to cover the tie point and cut ends. I know it's just a bit of unnecessary added weight but I'm also using very light pouches. It turns out they are really not much harder (if any) to tie than flats. It appears I can finally get some use out of some of the tube shooters I have bought in the last couple of years. Now that I have my length and preferred tube sizes figured out I feel safe in tying up a dozen or more for reserve. I didn't want to tie many of anything until I know it's what I want.*


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## M.J

That's great! Really glad to hear it :thumbsup:


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## Dannywayoflife

Got to say I’m liking tubes. I’m going to tie up some double 1632 loops later to try with 8mm steel.


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## Dannywayoflife

Well just tied up a tube set 1632 4 strands either side and wow it’s fast with 8mm steel


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## skropi

Doesn't the price seem a bit steep per meter, compared to flat bands? Considering we are doubling them.


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## M.J

skropi said:


> Doesn't the price seem a bit steep per meter, compared to flat bands? Considering we are doubling them.


Not when you factor in longevity.


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## Hulla Baloo

MJ, you had mentioned you were just looking for a reliable trajectory at 25 yards with the 2040 set and 7/16. Could you estimate the amount of drop you get at that range?


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## M.J

Uhhh... no.
There's some drop, but it's always the same drop, so I can factor for it. For a couple years I shot mostly lopped 2040 and 1/2" steel, which was only good for about 160-165fps, but I still murdered cans at 25 yards because I was used to the drop.


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## Hulla Baloo

Okay. Thought you might be able to guesstimate. Thanks anyway.


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## M.J

Sorry, man. Haven't shot that combo in forever and I never really thought about it in the terms you were asking about.


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## bigdh2000

I shoot it all. Granted, I have a preferred tournament setup, but the rest of the time I love experimenting. One thing I do know is that I hate anything larger than looped 2040s. Just too much pull for performance. My favorite tube setup was from this red 1632 I acquired. It just felt better than the natural and black. I have no idea why and it was a random purchase off Ali Express.


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## Northerner

This morning I set up a pseudo-taper 1632 for a light draw weight to shoot 1/4" steel ammo. The tubes were mounted on an Antelope frame. This will likely be one of my indoor shooters for the winter months. It will also work great on pop cans at 15-30 yards.

*Tube* = DK-1632

*Tube length* = 7 1/2" from pouch to end of loop (when off frame)

*Fork loop* = 2 3/4"

*Draw weight* = 5 lb + 1 oz

*Draw length* = 32"

*Speed* = 4.5mm BB at 247 fps... 1/4" steel at 227 fps... 5/16" steel at 193 fps

The 1632 can be doubled up to give impressive speeds with 5/16" steel but that was not my intention. I was aiming for a mild shooting tube for 1/4" steel ammo. The 5 pound draw weight is right where I want. The mild tube stretch should give very long rubber life.


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## Dannywayoflife

Wish I had a Chrono to speed test my double loop 1632 with 8mm it seems faster than 2040 for less draw weight


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## Pebble Shooter

You made some extremely valid points to support tubes, namely the fact that one only needs very basic tools to make them (scissors and string), and that they will last a very long time - unlike most band sets.


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## Fiveshooter

I know this is an older thread but after using loop tubes a while I thought I would give my results. I shoot indoors almost every evening and use a bowl of 300 pieces of 3/8" of steel that I generally empty, retrieve and shoot twice each session. I've been shooting almost exclusively flats until I saw this thread and tied up a few loop tube sets to the proper length for my anchor point in both 1632 and 2040. So far I have not been using the 2040s much except to test draw weight compared to the 1632s. I've pretty much stuck to the 1632's as a standard as I find them light to pull and plenty of speed for 3/8" steel for 10 meter target shooting which is almost all I shoot these days.

Since I keep a fairly accurate count of how many shots before I get a failure I have a decently accurate life expectancy average of both types of flats I use and the 1632 loop tubes.

The tapers I am using are from fairly premium Chinese die cut strips that I buy in lots of not less than 100 at a time but I get similar band life with home cut tapers from GZK, Precise and Sumeike. I use the die cut strips for convenience and although the performance may lag a bit behind the more premium brands, the life expectancy has been fairly equal no matter what brand I use.

Below are my averages.

.7mm 20mm X 15mm cut at optimum stretch of active band length at my draw length I have band failures between 500 and 700 shots as an average.

.8mm 20mm X 15mm cut slightly longer than optimum stretch of active band length at my draw length I have band failures between 700 and 900 shots as an average.

1632 looped Dankung tubes made at optimum stretch of active band length at my draw length I have logged 1,800 shots and no failure yet.

I will be changing them out shortly as they are losing a bit of zip but still there has been no failure.

My personal accuracy with tubes is still lagging a bit behind flats but not by much and the more I shoot tubes, the closer my personal accuracy gets between tubes and flats.

This really only proves one thing to me but for me it's an important thing. Tubes do have a much longer life span than flats. If you truly enjoy making band sets this would not matter to you but making band sets is something I see as a chore I must do to keep shooting rather than something I look forward to.

This is not to say I'm moving away from flats but I will most certainly be shooting looped tubes more in the mix.


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## bigdh2000

I never considered the "zip" reducing with age on tubes. Definitely an interesting thought to ponder and test.


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## Fiveshooter

bigdh2000 said:


> I never considered the "zip" reducing with age on tubes. Definitely an interesting thought to ponder and test.


It's not a lot but I think a slight speed reduction also happens with flats after a lot of use. If not shot over a constant period of time it may not be noticeable but it does happen.

I've tried to be thrifty on a very few occasions with a failed set of tapered flats by trying a couple different things. I've tried only replacing the one failed band and the other side fails in about 100 shots or so. Since almost all papered band tears or holes are right in front of the pouch tie I've tried cutting both bands and re-tying the same bands slightly shorter and again I get a failure in about 100 shots or even less.

Bottom line for me is if one side fails the other isn't far behind it and since I don't enjoy tying band sets I just salvage the pouch to be used in my next batch, trash both bands and put on a fresh set. It's hardly worth the time to try and salvage anything other than the pouch if it's going to fail again right away. That strategy may fit for someone who actually likes tying bands but I only tie them because I have to and not because I want to.

I never use non-tapered flats long enough to have a failure so I'm sort of curious to know if they fail just in front of the pouch tie like a papered set or in random places along the entire length. I may have to use a few sets until failure to find out for myself.

To date I've only had two failures that did not start with a small tear or small hole no further than 1/2" in front of the pouch tie with most being within 1/4" ahead of the tie point. I had one band that came on a Chinese sling suddenly snap about mid length but I think that was some old elastic and I had one of my own tied taper bands break without any warning inside the pouch tie knot itself.

In all other cases I can tell something is wrong before it actually breaks. If I notice something isn't feeling right I stop and look for the beginning of the tear or hole before anything snaps.

So far so good


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## MOJAVE MO

Thanks FiveShooter for those metrics. I am learning that the numbers do matter. However. What sold me on tubes was being able to actually pull a looped set out of my pocket and 'band' up my sling while keeping my eye on the target the whole time. Sure I gotta make sure the loops aren't twisted, but compared to finding a place in the shade to sit down and wrap and tuck a sling is madness in my area of the planet.


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## Alfred E.M.

*Most of us don't get to consistently shoot hundreds of rounds on a daily basis. Thanks for sharing what you learn.*


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## Fiveshooter

Alfred E.M. said:


> *Most of us don't get to consistently shoot hundreds of rounds on a daily basis. Thanks for sharing what you learn.*


*An indoor range is a requirement  No worries of rain or darkness and although you don't need the mental picture, you can even shoot at midnight dressed only in your underwear.*


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## skropi

Guys, I think we are being unfair to flats. If we are to compare average life span, then we need to make sure that two things are equal between them. Taper, and speed. 
I am half sure that straight cut flats, cut carefully with a sharp rotary cutter, that shoot NO faster than a set of tubes, will have an equal life span, give or take.
I may be wrong, but it would be good to test it out.
Anyone has an idea of the speed that looped 1632's have, propelling 3/8 steel, with an average 30" draw length, elongated at 500%?


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## Fiveshooter

skropi said:


> Guys, I think we are being unfair to flats. If we are to compare average life span, then we need to make sure that two things are equal between them. Taper, and speed.
> I am half sure that straight cut flats, cut carefully with a sharp rotary cutter, that shoot NO faster than a set of tubes, will have an equal life span, give or take.
> I may be wrong, but it would be good to test it out.
> Anyone has an idea of the speed that looped 1632's have, propelling 3/8 steel, with an average 30" draw length, elongated at 500%?


I too think straight cuts do last longer than tapers. The only straights I have used are ones that came on or with a slingshot when I bought it but I have changed them all before they reach the point of failure. The tubes are definitely slower than the flats. How much slower I can't say. I do have a nice chronograph that I used a lot developing handgun ammunition loads but never cared enough to set it up to test out slingshot speeds. Perhaps I will do that someday soon. I have shot a 7/8" straight cut set that came with an Axiom Ocularis until the pouch stretched to the point I didn't want to use them any longer. I was not using my routine of 2 bowls of 300 shots per session so I did not keep any count on how many shots I used them for but I feel certain it was at least over 1,000. I will tie a set of straight cuts in the very near future and shoot them until failure and keep a count on them while I am doing it. There are a lot of folks that only shoot straight cut flats so they probably are getting much longer band life than tapers. I've been interested in shooting a set of straight cuts until failure anyway to see how and where they fail as I have no clue if they generally fail just before the pouch tie or anywhere along the length. I know taper cut failure locations are very predictable but it may take at least three or four sets of straight cut bands to find a pattern if there even is a pattern to where they fail.


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## bigdh2000

skropi said:


> Guys, I think we are being unfair to flats. If we are to compare average life span, then we need to make sure that two things are equal between them. Taper, and speed.
> I am half sure that straight cut flats, cut carefully with a sharp rotary cutter, that shoot NO faster than a set of tubes, will have an equal life span, give or take.
> I may be wrong, but it would be good to test it out.
> Anyone has an idea of the speed that looped 1632's have, propelling 3/8 steel, with an average 30" draw length, elongated at 500%?


Tubes outlast straight cut flats as well. If you go until breaking on tubes you will hear numbers in excess of 2500 rounds (I have heard as high as 5000 rounds or more). Fiveshooter is getting great life with 900 rounds on flats. Most are in the 500 max range.

Now, this assumes you treat the bands and tubes well. In other words, do not leave them in a hot or cold car, step on them, twist them wrong, put them in a pocket with keys, etc.


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## skropi

What????? 5000 shots????? Even 2500 shots is extreme life span! I don't count, but I don't think I ever got more than 800-900 shots out of flats, including the inevitable retying at the pouch. I am tapering 3:2 though, and I see that 4:3 is more popular among older members, so it may give a better shot count.
Ok, so, if I was to give looped tubes a try, what would be more suitable for 3/8 steel, 2040 or 1632?


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## M.J

1632 is much friendlier for target shooting.


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## Fiveshooter

skropi said:


> What????? 5000 shots????? Even 2500 shots is extreme life span! I don't count, but I don't think I ever got more than 800-900 shots out of flats, including the inevitable retying at the pouch. I am tapering 3:2 though, and I see that 4:3 is more popular among older members, so it may give a better shot count.
> Ok, so, if I was to give looped tubes a try, what would be more suitable for 3/8 steel, 2040 or 1632?


Both sizes seem good for me. The 1632 will give you a lighter draw but in theory the 2040 should give you a little better speed and I really think it does. I'm about to order so 1636 from GZK to see what it's all about. So far I have not been able to get any feedback from anyone that has tried it. Looks like I will take a shot in the dark on it and hope it's a bit faster than 1632 and a bit lighter draw than 2040.


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## bigdh2000

I prefer looped 1632 as well. Cannot explain why in clear words but it just feels better, flops around less and does not seem to twist as much.


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## Fiveshooter

So far I prefer the 1632 but I'm going to try some 1636 that GZK sells. I really don't know what to expect from it but I can't seem to get any feedback from anyone who has actually tried the stuff.

This size may be just a fad or the man may be onto something. What I am hoping for is a bit more speed over 1632 and a bit less pull weight than 2040. I guess I won't know until I get some and test it myself.


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## M.J

1632 is also comically bad in the cold, so if a little more wall thickness makes it possible to shoot when it's under 50 degrees then all the better.


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## Fiveshooter

M.J said:


> 1632 is also comically bad in the cold, so if a little more wall thickness makes it possible to shoot when it's under 50 degrees then all the better.


If it gets under 50 degrees in my house I'm turning the heat up


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## Fiveshooter

*Curiosity finally got the best of me on the GZK 1636 tube so I ordered 6 ten meter packs of it today. I added some other assorted sizes of GZK tubing to get to the required $59 for free expedited shipping.*

*After it arrives and I get some time with it I'll report back on the 1636 as I'm very curious if it's just a random size or the man is onto something with this size. *

*Not sure what to expect but I am hoping for a bit of speed increase without much added draw weight. Maybe something middle of the road between 1632 and 2040. We shall see *


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## LVO

I love the folks on this forum. Hope you are doing great M_J.


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## M.J

LVO said:


> I love the folks on this forum. Hope you are doing great M_J.


Good to see you, man!


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## M.J

I should have titled this post "Looped tubes sometimes, looped tubes when I feel like it" :lol:
I've been back stateside for a couple weeks and I've shot loops maybe three times.
The main problem is that I broke my only set of 1632s, which I got second hand four months ago. The other problem is that I've been playing with the handful of slingshots I have here, most of which don't support loops.
Oh well, it got a couple of you guys to try it and they will always be here when I'm ready


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## Fiveshooter

M.J said:


> I should have titled this post "Looped tubes sometimes, looped tubes when I feel like it" :lol:
> I've been back stateside for a couple weeks and I've shot loops maybe three times.
> The main problem is that I broke my only set of 1632s, which I got second hand four months ago. The other problem is that I've been playing with the handful of slingshots I have here, most of which don't support loops.
> Oh well, it got a couple of you guys to try it and they will always be here when I'm ready


Regardless of the title, it got me to tie up some proper size looped tubes for the first time and I like what I have been missing out on. Every tube shooter I have ever received has ALWAYS came with looped tubes too short, to strong or most commonly both. I'm liking the 1632s and this Wednesday the 1636 from GZK will arrive so I'll by tying some sets of that to test. It may be something worthwhile and it may just be an odd size but there is only one way to find out. BTW, I put another 300 shots through my first test set of 1632s before changing because of the slight speed loss but at 2,100 shots there isn't any hint of a tear or failure. I'll make the next batch tied from 1632 about 1/2" shorter so I can try and shoot them until failure. I have no idea when they would fail but by the looks of the first test set I expect I should get over 3,000 shots out of them.


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## skropi

Do we use the same approximate 500% with tubes too?


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## Fiveshooter

skropi said:


> Do we use the same approximate 500% with tubes too?


*That's where I'm at now but I'm going a little more on the next couple of sets of 1632s I tie. I'm thinking I'll get a little if not a lot more use out of them before they start losing too much speed from use. A slightly shorter length may or may not reduce the life but I'm going to find out for myself. The only other bands I have noticed lose a bit of speed is non-tapered flats. Virtually all my tapered sets fail before they lose any noticeable speed.*


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## stevekt

I hope I'm not going off topic too much but what frames do you guys like to use for looped tubes? I don't shoot looped tubes to often but I enjoy my Torque and Dankung POM X6. I have a PP Topshot on the way. I had to order from the UK to get a black one. I think I may consider an SPS in the future.


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## Fiveshooter

stevekt said:


> I hope I'm not going off topic too much but what frames do you guys like to use for looped tubes? I don't shoot looped tubes to often but I enjoy my Torque and Dankung POM X6. I have a PP Topshot on the way. I had to order from the UK to get a black one. I think I may consider an SPS in the future.


I have a few of the Dankung POM X6 models and although I really do like the looks, strength and light weight they are far from a favorite shooter for me. I just can't get the right grip on the little pinky hole they have. I've been shooting mostly a Dankung PIXIU model with the wrapping taken off. It's heavy but very easy to shoot and it fits my hand well.

I also have a few SPSs that I will be using with tubes soon and a 90% Mule by Martin Whippet that was made to be a dedicated tube shooter. So far I've only used the little Mule with flats attached via the Chicago Screw binding post method but now that I started making some tube sets I'll be shooting it with tubes as it was designed for. I've shot a few various other Chinese tube shooters lately but none I like better than the little heavy PIXIU model.

My GZK order arrived today so now I have a good stock of 1636 to experiment with. I've been wondering if there is anything to this size but could not find anyone who has tried it so I'll be the guinea pig on the stuff. My hopes are that it's a bit faster than 1632 and a bit lighter to pull than 2040 but hopes and reality are not always the same.

I'll update my thoughts on it after I've had some time to make a few sets and use it a while. I'm sending a roll to a friend who has a lot more experience with tubes than I do to get his feedback. With any luck this odd (to me) size may be something good.


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## M.J

I'm looking forward to your test of 1636!


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## Fiveshooter

M.J said:


> I'm looking forward to your test of 1636!


M.J., I don't have my screens for my chronograph here at home so I can't give real speeds. When I first started shooting the 1636s I felt like they had a much higher pull weight than the 1632s.

Apparently what I perceived as a big difference in pull weight between 1632s and 1636s was just my perception and does not bear out to be true in an actual weight measured pull test.

I made new sets for each size tube so no wear issue would affect the pull weight tests.

All tubes sets were tied to 5-1/2" from the folded loop to the tie point and pull weight was measured at a 27-1/2" pull to measure at 500% stretch with a digital scale.

Weight measurements were taken from the center of the pouch hooked by the scale and measured to the back side of the band on the slingshot. All were taken on the same slingshot. (Dankung Stainless PIXIU)

This is what we got.

1632s - 8.90 pounds at 500% stretch (Orange tube is an unknown maker from Aliexpress)

1636s - 9.84 pounds at 500% stretch (Green tube from GZK)

2040s - 13.5 pounds at 500% stretch (Black from Dankung)

I do feel I'm getting a slightly higher speed from the 1636s than even the 2040s and a considerable amount faster than the 1632s.

Until I pick up my screens for my chronograph from my storage facility and actually test the speed from each I will have no accurate speed data. I'm simply judging by the sound each tube size makes when the ball smacks my spinner and I'm getting a much harder smack sound from the 1636s than either the 1632s or even the 2040s.

I know that's no accurate way to judge actual speed but until I pick up my screens and actually test speed it's all I have to go by.

I will note that I've owned a high quality chronograph for several years I used extensively to test handgun ammunition reload speeds. I have never been curious enough about slingshot speeds to ever bother to set it up and test anything until now. The real speed to the 1636s versus 1632s and 2040s has finally peaked my curiosity enough to want real speed measurements so I'll get by my storage facility in the next couple of weeks and pick up the screens to test.

Until then, I'm setting the new matched 5-1/2" loop tube sets aside so none will have any wear when I do check real speed.

What the weight tests have proven to me is the 1636s are not that much harder to pull than 1632s in realty.

If I am correct about my speed assumptions it's probably quite a bit faster than 1632s and possibly a bit faster than 2040s as well.


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## Covert5

Fiveshooter, thanks for filling us in! I shoot 1632's and I'm looking forward to your chrono test. Thanks for taking the time out to test the 1636's and letting us know your findings!


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## BushpotChef

Anyone tries the Theratube khaki? Brooks sent me some I guess it good for the cold gonna pair it up with some precise red and make some polar bear cocktails LOL.

Sent using two thumbs and Tapatalk.


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## 3danman

BushpotChef said:


> Anyone tries the Theratube khaki? Brooks sent me some I guess it good for the cold gonna pair it up with some precise red and make some polar bear cocktails LOL.
> 
> Sent using two thumbs and Tapatalk.


I've heard they're sluggish compared to Chinese tubes, but I haven't tried them myself. None of the theratube line were ever very popular.


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## Fiveshooter

*Another thumbs up for this thread because it starting me off tying looped tubes that I can actually use. I have picked up quite a few higher end Chinese loop tube shooters in the last few years, a few were made for singles only, most for looped tubes and I have some original SPSs. Virtually all will have whole a new meaning with looped tubes. It seems most Chinese makers of high quality slingshots have mostly changed over to flat band shooters in the last year or so. That's both a good thing and a bad thing at the same time. When shopping online I do find less and less high end tube shooters but there has been a flood of decent to exceptional quality Chinese flat band shooters available in the last year or so. Of course Dankung still has a good selection of decent to very good tube shooters but I have no idea if they will continue with this or get caught up in the latest Chinese flat band craze. This trend makes me glad that I've been collecting several of the best tube shooters I could find in the last few years. Now that I am tying looped tubes I will finally get some real use out of them. Until this thread was started, they were all either shooting flats with plugs, a few were shooting flats with the binding post attachment system but most have just been in storage and getting no use at all.*

* Just yesterday I pulled out a little Martin Whippet custom reduced size Mule that I really like a lot. I bought it used as I would have never had Martin build me a dedicated tube shooter before now and this little slingshot was built as a dedicated tube shooter. I had earlier fitted it with stainless Chicago Screw binding posts to be able to shoot it with narrow flats but I removed those yesterday and put on a nice set of 1632 loops. I spent literally hours shooting it. I believe Martin would be proud that it's now being used as he intended and it's an awesome little slingshot as a tube shooter.*

* A forum member that knows my appreciation for Martin's work put this in my collection at an unbelievably low price. It was made in 2013 to the best info I was able to get on it but it is in perfectly new condition today. My guess is nobody shot it much if any. Ive been told it's both an 80% size and a 90% size but since I don't own a full size Mule I can't compare. What percentage of full size it is really doesn't matter to me. All I know for sure is it is of a slightly reduced size and a delight to own and shoot. Now with tubes it's more delightful to shoot than ever before. I loved the little frame from the moment I saw it but have to confess shooting narrow flats with the binding post attachment was less than optimal and the stainless steel Chicago Screw binding posts take a lot away from it's otherwise clean looks.*

*I do have a couple of other slings by Martin built for flats that have a lot more bling but I'm liking this one now as much as any.*

*






*

*






*

*






*

*I'll be digging out an SPS or two later this week to shoot with tubes and I have no doubt I will enjoy it.*


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## skropi

Aren't tubes just rolled flats anyway? ????


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## M.J

skropi said:


> Aren't tubes just rolled flats anyway?


Or are flats just smashed tubes?


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## M.J

Hey Chef, theratube tan is the suck. Much too small and retraction speed is really slow.


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## Fiveshooter

skropi said:


> Aren't tubes just rolled flats anyway?


*Aren't you supposed to be focused on shooting only one frame for about 12 more weeks? Yer not helping your resolve looking at pictures of other slingshots or pondering on bands our tubes. Yer best bet is to load all your others up and have a trusted friend hang onto them until the time is up. Make sure it's a friend who won't even let you touch them for the full 4 month duration. If you make it through 4 full months of slingshot monogamy yer my new hero *


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## Fiveshooter

M.J said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Aren't tubes just rolled flats anyway?
> 
> 
> 
> Or are flats just smashed tubes?
Click to expand...

Nope or they would last longer


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## SonOfNature

Cheers Lads!
I just want to ask guys, who have experiences with flats. The .65mm precise dont shows signs of wear out, but I cant hit a barn from 10m. I swiped for gipsy tabs 1745 and lets see wonder. It is much more consistent. I am going back to tubes and gypsy tabs.

So the Q is.
Are the loops more consistent than flats on long run?

Cheers


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## Cjw

I find Accuracy the same if you match your tubes or flats with the correct ammo. Flats are more forgiving if their a little long. Tubes will be all over the place if you cut to long. Plus flats seem to be more forgiving of a poor release than looped tubes.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## skropi

I can't find any difference between flats and tubes, as far as accuracy and consistency goes. Its a little easier to aim with tubes for me, but that's that.


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## Tag

CJW sad it perfectly for me, I shortened up my tubes, and the difference in improved accuracy is amazing for me.


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## SonOfNature

Thanks Guys!

I am happy that this thread is still alive. Today I will give a try again for flats. My lunch brake will be definitely in forest, middle of nothing that I could focus just on shooting and good release.

Next step is 1636 tube for 8mm steel.
And maybe 1030!???? for .22, .177 steel bbs. As urban plinker setup.

Anybody noticed differences between "anticold" and classic amber tubes?

Bye

P


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## bigdh2000

Been considering and studying tubes recently. CJW and MJ have really given me some good advice over the years.

One trick I learned, it is annoying endlessly shortening looped tubes when you are looking for the optimum tube length. Just tie on double tubes on both sides and wrap/tuck (or clamp/plug) them at the fork. Adjust until you find the right length. Then make your looped set.


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## SonOfNature

Hi!

I get some factory 1745, which are of course too stiff even for 10mm steel.

I made longer loop. Longer 1".
After hard workouts, my wrist was burn in pain. So just for fun I made much longer loop. 4" longer.
My consistency of grouping improved, because of less stress on wrist joint. Better grip on pouch. Smoother release.

After few weeks of digging on the forum for semi looped sets. I made one 3:2 set.
It was still too stiff.
So I changed the place of constrictor knot to ratio 2:3. 2 part of loop : 3 parts of singles. The set is now ok for plinking.

My new set to go for targeting is single 1745 on punched leather gypsy tab. Really fun when speed shooting and plinking with 8mm balls.

Next time I plan paper shooting to investigate my gap and weak points of shooting form.

Asian martial artist slingshooter will it call

THE POACHER KATA

????


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## AlDermietzel

Does anyone shoot loopes with 4 hole pouches? Interested to know if it makes much of a difference 

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk


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## Bob E

I don't think it makes any difference, except two hole is easier to make and tie.


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## SonOfNature

AlDermietzel said:


> Does anyone shoot loopes with 4 hole pouches? Interested to know if it makes much of a difference
> 
> Sent from my EML-L09 using
> 
> Tapatalk


Yes Sir!
I had some pouches from factory sets, what were broken around 2000 shots, but pouches are in good condition

So... 4 holes for bands.

IMO
When you are shooting gangsta style, and have similar to dankung. They are really easy to line up bottom bands with top ones.

Thats all.

All these set were retired because they worn out at forks.

Cheers


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## SonOfNature

Hi Lads,

And here it is.
New material for experimenting.






Currently I am playing with frameless 1636, and will experiment with pseudo tapered 1636, and looped 1636. 
2040 will get a chance too.


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## Covert5

SonOfNature said:


> Hi Lads,
> And here it is.
> New material for experimenting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Currently I am playing with frameless 1636, and will experiment with pseudo tapered 1636, and looped 1636.
> 2040 will get a chance too.


Awesome! Shoot away! Have fun bro!


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## AlDermietzel

Just posted a thread asking about 2050 and 2052 dk tubing, come to think of It should have just asked here. Any one tried these before? I've ordered a dk pocket thunder, time to give loops a go !

Sent from my EML-L09 using Tapatalk


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## SonOfNature

Uh
2050 or 2052 what do you want to kill?
First sample of 2050 I received in the video posted above. I feel it too strong up to 10mm steel. 
Maybe 10-12 mm LEAD will be ok for this tubing.

Any other more experienced shooter here will suggest a good setup from these.

P


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## Soske

Are you shooting full butterfly with looped tubes like in your picture?

I found doubled 2040s were to heavy of a draw weight. I use single 2040 or looped 1632 when I use tubes butterfly.


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## Hermit

I use flatbands and looped tubes - preference is looped tubes. I like the fact they are easier to change and last longer. I use 1632's and 1745's.

Rich


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