# R10 Shooting Test



## SharpshooterJD

Hey guys. Today's video is of my new R10 in spectraply. In this vid, I will be giving it a quick little shooting test. And before you ask, yes I know spectraply is not supposed to be used by itself, cause it's too weak and all of that. I put a disclaimer in the video and I have not had any trouble with it yet, but that's on me. Hope you guys enjoyed!


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## treefork

Nice job on the shooter . Marbles are excellent ammo .


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## Charles

Nice frame ... good shooting!

Cheers ..... Charles


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## SharpshooterJD

Thanks guys! Yeah I have been loving marbles. Easier to see, cheaper and they really pack a punch!


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## Bill Hays

Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!

Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"

EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.


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## SonoftheRepublic

Nice video. And the music works with it. Those marbles really do show up well too.


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## SharpshooterJD

SonoftheRepublic said:


> Nice video. And the music works with it. Those marbles really do show up well too.


Thanks man! I am glad you liked the music, still getting used to editing the audio, it's kind of new for me. Awesome! That's what I was hoping .


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## SharpshooterJD

Bill Hays said:


> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.


Thanks Bill! Which one is that, the patriot? I have been meaning to try one of your TTF designs. I really like your mini hunter. Do you have any open source TTF designs with a narrower fork gap? I like the R10 but it's a bit wide for me.

A lot of side hold TTF frames look similar, there's just not that many different ways to make a slingshot. I am pretty sure the R10 template was made from scratch. And there are definitely differences in the design. I hope there is no problem here.


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## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.


Hey Bill, actually it's my design. The R10 features an offset grip, something which yours does not and a key feature to the design.

Here is the R6 in the early stages, I sought to fix the problems I found with fixed hand positions, that is, every dedicated side shooter I could find lined up the index with the thumb. I believe this to be an error in design.

Here is the R6 thread and dealing with proper hand positions (assuming the mods permit the link for the purpose of this post):

http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/threads/metropolicity-moniker-the-rev6-hand-position.1046/

Here is the template (assuming the mods permit the link for the purpose of this post):
http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/resources/r10-slingshot-template.23/

You are more then welcome to copy my design though, and sell it, something I tell everyone.


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## Bill Hays

sharpshooterJD said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.
> 
> Thanks Bill! Which one is that, the patriot? I have been meaning to try one of your TTF designs. I really like your mini hunter. Do you have any open source TTF designs with a narrower fork gap? I like the R10 but it's a bit wide for me.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of side hold TTF frames look similar, there's just not that many different ways to make a slingshot. I am pretty sure the R10 template was made from scratch. And there are definitely differences in the design. I hope there is no problem here.
Click to expand...

Josh, the Patriot template is in the Templates section on this website. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you using/reproducing any of my designs.... I only ask that you give attribution is all... and it's not because I want everybody to say "oh how great Bill Hays is" or anything like that... It's because I want to use my own designs to produce and market. I don't use other people's designs even though I have been given permission and even encouragement to do so... It's just the way I am.

So what happens is others come along and see my designs... like many eBay sellers do/did right now, copy the design... make the slightest of changes or even no change whatsoever (Bloodshot for example)... call it their own and then, to the uninitiated, it makes it seem like I'm actually stealing their work when I make something that I actually came up with.... It's extremely annoying to me to say the least.

BUT, like I say and I mean it... I really don't mind if someone works with, remakes, plays with, or whatever with one of my designs... so long as they don't make up some BS story of proper hand alignment and ergonomics and call one of mine their's... that's all.


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## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> sharpshooterJD said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.
> 
> Thanks Bill! Which one is that, the patriot? I have been meaning to try one of your TTF designs. I really like your mini hunter. Do you have any open source TTF designs with a narrower fork gap? I like the R10 but it's a bit wide for me.
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of side hold TTF frames look similar, there's just not that many different ways to make a slingshot. I am pretty sure the R10 template was made from scratch. And there are definitely differences in the design. I hope there is no problem here.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Josh, the Patriot template is in the Templates section on this website. There is absolutely nothing wrong with you using/reproducing any of my designs.... I only ask that you give attribution is all... and it's not because I want everybody to say "oh how great Bill Hays is" or anything like that... It's because I want to use my own designs to produce and market. I don't use other people's designs even though I have been given permission and even encouragement to do so... It's just the way I am.
> 
> So what happens is others come along and see my designs... like many eBay sellers do/did right now, copy the design... make the slightest of changes or even no change whatsoever (Bloodshot for example)... call it their own and then, to the uninitiated, it makes it seem like I'm actually stealing their work when I make something that I actually came up with.... It's extremely annoying to me to say the least.
> 
> BUT, like I say and I mean it... I really don't mind if someone works with, remakes, plays with, or whatever with one of my designs... so long as they don't make up some BS story of proper hand alignment and ergonomics and call one of mine their's... that's all.
Click to expand...

Bill, you didn't make this design, not even close. I feel lucky to have my eye examinations covered here in Canada... lol


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## Bill Hays

Clever Moniker said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Bill, actually it's my design. The R10 features an offset grip, something which yours does not and a key feature to the design.
> 
> Here is the R6 in the early stages, I sought to fix the problems I found with fixed hand positions, that is, every dedicated side shooter I could find lined up the index with the thumb. I believe this to be an error in design.
> 
> Here is the R6 thread and dealing with proper hand positions (assuming the mods permit the link for the purpose of this post):
> 
> http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/threads/metropolicity-moniker-the-rev6-hand-position.1046/
> 
> Here is the template (assuming the mods permit the link for the purpose of this post):
> http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/resources/r10-slingshot-template.23/
> 
> You are more then welcome to copy my design though, and sell it, something I tell everyone.
Click to expand...

Okay, I read your threads... congratulations, you basically "rediscovered" ergonomic principles I've had in place on my sideshooter designs from the very beginning. Accounting for the offset in grip has been in place since well before the Hathcock Target Sniper, is on the HTS, and continues to this day.

Look, I know my gallery is a very nice resource... I made it so people can get an idea of some of the things that are possible and then maybe build on that... but it does not in any way make it okay to have an "open season" going through it choosing designs and hardware... taking those, making up blueprints and then placing them on your website.

At the very LEAST, good manners would seem to dictate you asking permission before doing so... but you haven't sought permission nor have you given proper attribution to your inspirations. I consider that to be very bad manners indeed.

Mathew, you've come a long way in the last couple of years... you have talent and you seem like a nice enough guy... that's why I've given you and yours slingshots and so much support in the past... but this path which you've decided to go down... pretending you got your knowledge of how to shoot from the back of a Barnett package... acting like you are some kind of a big "natural" guy... that you only shoot your "own" designs and so forth... opening up another slingshot forum website that tends to act as a sounding board for some who somehow think they've been "wronged" by this site, and so forth and so on..... Really it's a very disturbing, albeit interesting trend to me.

Dude... you might not remember... but right here on this website is your beginning. You, like most of us, started with a piece of crap metal rod slingshot... failing to use it well, you sought out and found this site... got a LOT of help and support... started shooting with an HTS... collected lots and lots of game with it, even showing the pictures and video here... even got so good you could cut cards and so forth with it.... and now you've decided to recreate your past.

I don't know what your motivations are... and to be quite honest, I don't really care what they are... All I ask is for the common courtesy to acknowledge and ask permission before coming up with some of your "original" designs that bear an extremely striking resemblance to mine.


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## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Bill, actually it's my design. The R10 features an offset grip, something which yours does not and a key feature to the design.
> 
> Here is the R6 in the early stages, I sought to fix the problems I found with fixed hand positions, that is, every dedicated side shooter I could find lined up the index with the thumb. I believe this to be an error in design.
> 
> Here is the R6 thread and dealing with proper hand positions (assuming the mods permit the link for the purpose of this post):
> 
> http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/threads/metropolicity-moniker-the-rev6-hand-position.1046/
> 
> Here is the template (assuming the mods permit the link for the purpose of this post):
> http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/resources/r10-slingshot-template.23/
> 
> You are more then welcome to copy my design though, and sell it, something I tell everyone.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Okay, I read your threads... congratulations, you basically "rediscovered" ergonomic principles I've had in place on my sideshooter designs from the very beginning. Accounting for the offset in grip has been in place since well before the Hathcock Target Sniper, is on the HTS, and continues to this day.
> 
> Look, I know my gallery is a very nice resource... I made it so people can get an idea of some of the things that are possible and then maybe build on that... but it does not in any way make it okay to have an "open season" going through it choosing designs and hardware... taking those, making up blueprints and then placing them on your website.
> 
> At the very LEAST, good manners would seem to dictate you asking permission before doing so... but you haven't sought permission nor have you given proper attribution to your inspirations. I consider that to be very bad manners indeed.
> 
> Mathew, you've come a long way in the last couple of years... you have talent and you seem like a nice enough guy... that's why I've given you and yours slingshots and so much support in the past... but this path which you've decided to go down... pretending you got your knowledge of how to shoot from the back of a Barnett package... acting like you are some kind of a big "natural" guy... that you only shoot your "own" designs and so forth... opening up another slingshot forum website that tends to act as a sounding board for some who somehow think they've been "wronged" by this site, and so forth and so on..... Really it's a very disturbing, albeit interesting trend to me.
> 
> Dude... you might not remember... but right here on this website is your beginning. You, like most of us, started with a piece of crap metal rod slingshot... failing to use it well, you sought out and found this site... got a LOT of help and support... started shooting with an HTS... collected lots and lots of game with it, even showing the pictures and video here... even got so good you could cut cards and so forth with it.... and now you've decided to recreate your past.
> 
> I don't know what your motivations are... and to be quite honest, I don't really care what they are... All I ask is for the common courtesy to acknowledge and ask permission before coming up with some of your "original" designs that bear an extremely striking resemblance to mine.
Click to expand...

You're attempting to change the subject, but I'll entertain it.

Please feel free to show me where I have said I learned to shoot off the back of a Barnett package? Go find that comment, at least back up what you say with actual evidence. I have always said I learned to shoot from an LGD video. I later discovered that style of shooting has been around forever.

Also, even though I have my own forum, I've have not knocked the knowledge I have gained from here, in fact, it's the opposite: http://slingshotforum.com/topic/39991-multiple-forums/?p=493169 (see how I use actual evidence to back up my arguments). Even though our forum is new, feel free to show how many anti SSF posts have been made out of the 56,000 posts on there. Again, please back up your comments with evidence.

Now back to the original argument, I took the liberty of doing up a quick sketch in SketchUp for ya... fill me on on how these are the same to you when the dimensions are completely different. :banghead:









I'd kindly ask you stop trying to take credit for other people work... talk about a trend.


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## Bill Hays

Wow, you're so right Mathew....

I don't see any similarities at all... must be my failing vision... another win for socialized medicine vs. free enterprise I guess!

You see (pun?), to my eyes they look pretty similar... except for the added on HTS-like thumb architecture... lucky we have you here to point out all the differences there Mat!










Look, it's ridiculous to argue with you... as you'll simply hmmm hawww and bring up a bunch of silly half-baked contortions and conclusions that are easily rebutted... All I ask is for you to simply give credit to the actual designers when you decide to "borrow" ideas.... I know common courtesies like giving credit where it's due, or "dancing with the one that brought you", are foreign concepts to many on these forums.... and just because someone decides to post pictures of their works obviously invites others to just take them and call them their own... but I think you've got the potential to be better than that though Mathew!

And with that, I am done with this.


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## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Wow, you're so right Mathew....
> 
> I don't see any similarities at all... must be my failing vision... another win for socialized medicine vs. free enterprise I guess!
> 
> You see (pun?), to my eyes they look pretty similar... except for the added on HTS-like thumb architecture... lucky we have you here to point out all the differences there Mat!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Look, it's ridiculous to argue with you... as you'll simply hmmm hawww and bring up a bunch of silly half-baked contortions and conclusions that are easily rebutted... All I ask is for you to simply give credit to the actual designers when you decide to "borrow" ideas.... I know common courtesies like giving credit where it's due, or "dancing with the one that brought you", are foreign concepts to many on these forums.... and just because someone decides to post pictures of their works obviously invites others to just take them and call them their own... but I think you've got the potential to be better than that though Mathew!
> 
> And with that, I am done with this.


 I know you want credit for stuff you didn't design... you're not gonna get it.

I love how in your typical fashion you provide no evidence for any of your claims. Here is something you may not know. Just because you say something is true doesn't make it so.

For the record, the fact you have to try and combine multiple designs to even make the comparison possible proves how you don't have a single design like it...

I'm glad your done with it, go move on to attempting to steal other people's work.

Pathetic


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## Tremoside

sharpshooterJD said:


> Hey guys. Today's video is of my new R10 in spectraply. In this vid, I will be giving it a quick little shooting test. And before you ask, yes I know spectraply is not supposed to be used by itself, cause it's too weak and all of that. I put a disclaimer in the video and I have not had any trouble with it yet, but that's on me. Hope you guys enjoyed!


Hey Josh,

Really like your video and your efforts by making it. I was happy to see that nice R10 in your hands and the way as the thumbrest works in action. Well done CM! The larger ammo is nicely visible just as you said and adds a lot to the video. Music is not my personal style in genre but as a background music it seems to be fine. What you may have to consider is matching your voices volume and the music. Probably you already know but there's a free and open source software that is called Audacity wich one is just perfect for quick noise reduction, for boosting volume and get back to your original voice tone. This tone is usually suffers from open mic records. Worth to take a look.

As I'm checking you videos time to time I just have to say I like your attitude. Your appearance is natural and you always try to improve. Keep it up!

Have a nice day,

Tremo


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## SharpshooterJD

Tremoside said:


> sharpshooterJD said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey guys. Today's video is of my new R10 in spectraply. In this vid, I will be giving it a quick little shooting test. And before you ask, yes I know spectraply is not supposed to be used by itself, cause it's too weak and all of that. I put a disclaimer in the video and I have not had any trouble with it yet, but that's on me. Hope you guys enjoyed!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey Josh,
> 
> Really like your video and your efforts by making it. I was happy to see that nice R10 in your hands and the way as the thumbrest works in action. Well done CM! The larger ammo is nicely visible just as you said and adds a lot to the video. Music is not my personal style in genre but as a background music it seems to be fine. What you may have to consider is matching your voices volume and the music. Probably you already know but there's a free and open source software that is called Audacity wich one is just perfect for quick noise reduction, for boosting volume and get back to your original voice tone. This tone is usually suffers from open mic records. Worth to take a look.
> 
> As I'm checking you videos time to time I just have to say I like your attitude. Your appearance is natural and you always try to improve. Keep it up!
> 
> Have a nice day,
> 
> Tremo
Click to expand...

Thanks so much Tremo! I am still new to working with audio so I really appreciate the feedback! I think I have used audacity once before, but never really figured out how to use it. Can you be a little more specific about the audio issue so I can do my best to fix it?

Wow, thanks again! I am always trying to improve, sometimes I feel like I come off a little bit unemotional because I am such an introvert . Anyway I really appreciate your comment! You too! Josh


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## oldmiser

Nice going Josh..Great shooting...Keep with it..your going places in the slingshot world..Best too you my friend...As for some the the subject matter on design's

I will just by pass that ..And comment on you my friend..nice video of you sharing..thank you

~AKAOldmiser


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## Tremoside

Y2B is packed with some Audacity tutorials. As for noise removal you can check this. You need to convert your video audio to a single WAV (or something similar pro sound waveform) to load into AC. A free software is RealPlayer (now Cloud version is out) that's pretty easy to work with when you need an extraction audio. It has a Real Player Converter drag&drop application that works seamlessy. If you're not a fan of clouds you have to review settings of Real Player itself. Real Player is super easy but has it's lacks from time to time. That's not performance but my advice is to turn off every cloud and internet functions including updates. My brother is an ethical hacker and graduated with RealPlayer problems of leaking info while overloading. Anyway it's still one of the easiest app to use for converting videos and audio and for us average users works just fine.

Before you start editing your video you have to load the separated and refined audio file and edit the video-audio accordingly. Premiere Pro is an easy to do soft for this.

If you want to reduce the size of your video sources you can try Handbrake. A great ready to go software. Since cameras are creating larger files to avoid compression intensive recording it's a good point to reduce file size for storage. However the best if you pick audio from the original file and then make convert with Handbrake since it can create some noises that comes from hardware (espescially true with notebooks).

-------------------------

It's much easier to perform and present with introverted personality than with extroverted. Belive me and just keep to be honest and straight to the point. As you go forward you can develop in rhetorics. It's all about learning and as I see you have no problem with that  Just don't force yourself to appear someone else. Keep your own pace and you will recognise what works for you and what works for the people you target.

Take care,

Mark


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## Clever Moniker

edit


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## Clever Moniker

Ohhh, and Bill, fill me in on how the HTS has an offset grip again? I had an HTS. I think I know the dimensions. Here is an image showing the HTS doesn't have an offset grip. You're trying to steal other peoples work by suggesting you have done it from the "very beginning" and it's pathetic. Have some integrity.

If you click on the image, highlighted blue lines indicate (as done in CAD) the index and thumb are lined up.

View attachment 87483


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## Bill Hays

You truly are pathetic Mathew...

You don't account for perspective in your example. The thumb and forefinger are offset by about 3/16".... and even in your example it's easy enough to see the forefinger side is further down than the thumb side... Maybe Canadian eye tests aren't all they're cracked up to be after all...?

Below is an actual template that's several years old and still used in cutting out master jigs... I added the gray stripe so you or anybody else can see clearly see the offset.

The entire offset idea is something I originally came up with... not you... and as a matter of fact you probably "borrowed" that concept from the Hathcock you have and pretend not to know anything about... truly pathetic.

Again, I know it's difficult for you... being busted in public and all... but if you simply give recognition to those you borrow so heavily from... then maybe we wouldn't feel so off put by your actions.


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## Clever Moniker

You truly are pathetic Mathew...

You don't account for perspective in your example. The thumb and forefinger are offset by about 3/16".... and even in your example it's easy enough to see the forefinger side is further down than the thumb side... Maybe Canadian eye tests aren't all they're cracked up to be after all...?

Below is an actual template that's several years old and still used in cutting out master jigs... I added the gray stripe so you or anybody else can see clearly see the offset.

The entire offset idea is something I originally came up with... not you... and as a matter of fact you probably "borrowed" that concept from the Hathcock you have and pretend not to know anything about... truly pathetic.

Again, I know it's difficult for you... being busted in public and all... but if you simply give recognition to those you borrow so heavily from... then maybe we wouldn't feel so off put by your actions.










You know that kid in school who keeps trying to smash the round peg into the square hole, because they think they were the same shape... I think that was you man.

Please fill me in on why the forks look completely different?


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## Clever Moniker

Can you account for why your forks look different?

A 3* rotation... and... like I said, love to know how the forks are completely different and this "original" image appears out of nowhere... :banghead:


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## Clever Moniker

Oh and just so we keep on track here, no matter how hard you try, it still doesn't make these 2 shapes the same... keep trying to smash that round peg into the square hole.


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## Bill Hays

Clever Moniker said:


> Can you account for why your forks look different?
> 
> A 3* rotation... and... like I said, love to know how the forks are completely different and this "original" image appears out of nowhere... :banghead:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hts2.jpg


First of all, I have never, not once copied anybody else's design without giving complete and thorough attribution. Secondly, there are over 20,000 Hathcock Target Snipers out there, so finding one to compare to the actual master template will not be a problem... but if I were to do it... you would simply bluster on and act like an ass further... saying how I made something from YOUR works to prove my point... when in fact, to all but the most blind it's obvious you are the one "borrowing" other's concepts, designs and works.

Third... those two shapes and trying to put a round peg in a square hole... or what most people would say, a square peg in a round hole... the overall shape, size and function are almost identical... the only difference is you added an HTS inspired thumb groove.

Now... what I'd like to know is what gives you the right to take other people's concepts, including templates and without their permission, without their consent and without even letting them know... taking those things and placing them on your website?

I have a feeling that if it happened to you, you'd be a little pissed off... why do you think I should feel any different?


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## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you account for why your forks look different?
> 
> A 3* rotation... and... like I said, love to know how the forks are completely different and this "original" image appears out of nowhere... :banghead:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hts2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I have never, not once copied anybody else's design without giving complete and thorough attribution. Secondly, there are over 20,000 Hathcock Target Snipers out there, so finding one to compare to the actual master template will not be a problem... but if I were to do it... you would simply bluster on and act like an *** further... saying how I made something from YOUR works to prove my point... when in fact, to all but the most blind it's obvious you are the one "borrowing" other's concepts, designs and works.
> 
> Third... those two shapes and trying to put a round peg in a square hole... or what most people would say, a square peg in a round hole... the overall shape, size and function are almost identical... the only difference is you added an HTS inspired thumb groove.
> 
> Now... what I'd like to know is what gives you the right to take other people's concepts, including templates and without their permission, without their consent and without even letting them know... taking those things and placing them on your website?
> 
> I have a feeling that if it happened to you, you'd be a little pissed off... why do you think I should feel any different?
Click to expand...

Bill, go hop on my site and look in the template section, everyone, and I mean everyone has been credited. here is an example of where I credited YOU! I was asked to recreate this from the template you posted here and thought it appropriate to give the credit. Please go show me the templates where I haven't given credit to the original creator, you won't find it.









Again, the fact you have to COMBINE 2 designs to make the comparison proves you have no SINGLE design like it. You're proving my point man.


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## Clever Moniker

Okay, let's talk about this, because you do this to people, good people who have been around some time; you run around this forum complaining people are copying you and that they looked at your gallery. As though you believe people like me would actually want to copy you, or even have an interest in looking at your gallery. Honestly, we don't man. The only time I have looked at your gallery is when you drone on about it in threads like this one. I know even as you just read that, you'll refuse to believe it. It's the truth though. Maybe the uninitiated want to re-create people's designs, but people who have been around a while have no interest man, we're all doing our own thing.


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## oldmiser

I thing you guys( Bill & Cleaver ) Need to take this else where..Like in a PM to each other...

This is Josh's therad about test shooting a R10 slingshot....Pardon me but like I said you guys need to talk about the designs in a pm

Next thing ya know this will be lock down...Thank you for understanding about giving Josh his review test on the R10 slingshot....

Sorry Josh I got off topic ..But want to get the topic back on track..~AKAOldmiser


----------



## JohnKrakatoa

Bill Hays said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you account for why your forks look different?
> 
> A 3* rotation... and... like I said, love to know how the forks are completely different and this "original" image appears out of nowhere... :banghead:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> hts2.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> First of all, I have never, not once copied anybody else's design without giving complete and thorough attribution. Secondly, there are over 20,000 Hathcock Target Snipers out there, so finding one to compare to the actual master template will not be a problem... but if I were to do it... you would simply bluster on and act like an *** further... saying how I made something from YOUR works to prove my point... when in fact, to all but the most blind it's obvious you are the one "borrowing" other's concepts, designs and works.
> 
> Third... those two shapes and trying to put a round peg in a square hole... or what most people would say, a square peg in a round hole... the overall shape, size and function are almost identical... the only difference is you added an HTS inspired thumb groove.
> 
> Now... what I'd like to know is what gives you the right to take other people's concepts, including templates and without their permission, without their consent and without even letting them know... taking those things and placing them on your website?
> 
> I have a feeling that if it happened to you, you'd be a little pissed off... why do you think I should feel any different?
Click to expand...

20,000? Holy balls thats a lot.. How long have you been selling them? 5 Years? Thats 4,000 slingshots a year (HTS only not to forget). Divided by 260 work days (no holidays per year scenario), thats 15,38 HTS made each day.

On your web it says "It usually takes a little while to get your order made. Sometimes up to 3 or 4 weeks". I don't know if that means you have say 20 orders per day for HTS and you can make and ship 15 per day. Or if it means something else.

Still... you sell them for 35USD, thats 140,000USD turnover on HTS sales only, per year. IF you have a profit of say 15USD on each, that's 60,000USD profit on HTS per year, before taxes.

This is all a wild guess by myself, I have no idea how you produce them, but 20,000 sales of only one design sound exaggerated, I would have a hard time believing even the Scout had that many sales per year and I am quite sure Scout is the best selling ss ever.

Maybe you can tell us more about your process and put some hard numbers behind that claim.

You did mean 20,000 hts sold by you? Or did you include all the "knock offs" and homemade ones of everyone in the world?

JOSH sorry for the OffTopic. I don't mean to put more logs into the fire, I am just curious.

Nice video man! I enjoy your stuff... I hope I can get to learn to edit my own videos and contribute something of value to YT too.


----------



## Bill Hays

Mat,

Your example of showing the Tube Master Sniper... another design that is several years old... has been posted for the world to use it AND just so happens to have been placed on your website... IS yet another example of a slingshot with an offset grip... it is offset by at least 1/4" dimensionally, and because the thumb is of greater diameter than the forefinger, in reality slightly more.

So RIGHT THERE, on your own website with a template that I made you have proof of exactly what I said.

Whether it was intentional or not, copying or not, does not really matter... your very intimate familiarity with my work made it inevitable that you would "discover" things like the offset grip and a favored use of TTF only tips that I originally designed.

Again, the only reason I want credit... is simply because it's due, and I do not feel comfortable making other people's designs.... I makes me very uneasy when someone suggests I've copied something when in fact it is the other way around.

When I accuse someone it is ALWAYS for very good reason and is NEVER unfounded.

Now, let me explain why I do not post on your site, and have as minimal contact with it as possible... which is probably why you took up this whole BS mini-crusade in the first place because you felt slighted in some way.

On the internet there's parasitic people and personalities and there's symbiotic, those that give more than receive... Your site has decided to become a meeting place for many of those of the parasitic type. And as a matter of fact, you decided it a good idea to support, befriend and promote those that see nothing wrong with simply stealing other people's intellectual property... as a matter of fact, literally granting vendor status to one of the biggest parasites.

Me, I don't abide by that... the theft of intellectual property IS a very big deal to me... I know it's not as big a deal to those that have never actually created something on their own and from their own head... but I've been involved in making my own way for a very long time, so it is a big deal to me.

Mat, the only reason I allowed this conversation to continue is I felt you were possibly redeemable... You are smart, you seem to have some talent and you seem to be a nice guy with a good family.

But as life progresses it's come to my attention there are a certain number of people who just have something "broken" inside of them... They literally can't fully tell right from wrong... seeing the world only in shades of gray with no bold contrasts of black and white.

I happen to be one of those Black and White with a little gray world observers... you apparently are not.

So with that, I truly am through with this... I can't say that I wish you good luck, because I don't... I truly want parasites to fail and since you support them I can not hope for you to be successful.


----------



## Bill Hays

JohnKrakatoa said:


> Still... you sell them for 35USD, thats 140,000USD turnover on HTS sales only, per year. IF you have a profit of say 15USD on each, that's 60,000USD profit on HTS per year, before taxes.
> 
> This is all a wild guess by myself, I have no idea how you produce them, but 20,000 sales of only one design sound exaggerated, I would have a hard time believing even the Scout had that many sales per year and I am quite sure Scout is the best selling ss ever.
> 
> Maybe you can tell us more about your process and put some hard numbers behind that claim.
> 
> You did mean 20,000 hts sold by you? Or did you include all the "knock offs" and homemade ones of everyone in the world?


Okay... maybe a little more than 20,000 if you count all the counterfeit pieces...

What can I say... There's a very good reason the design is so copied and so forth... people like it and shoot well with it, so there's a lot of sales as a consequence.

John, why don't you create something and market it... then you might reap some of the benefits as well... the internet is a big place!


----------



## Clever Moniker

I love how I PM you, and then you still chose to place your PM to me on this thread... well okay then,

The Tube Master Sniper is a thumb braced grip, not a pinch. :S Even if I did entertain the offset grip, it still doesn't make the R10 shape yours. You have not made anything remotely similar yet you claim to, and this is why you will never get credit. You keep combining 2 of your shapes to try and convince me... it's not working.

If you own intellectual property, please fill everyone in. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intellectual_property).

As for this comment: "Now, let me explain why I do not post on your site, and have as minimal contact with it as possible... which is probably why you took up this whole BS mini-crusade in the first place *because you felt slighted in some way." :rofl:* 

I don't think anyone loves themselves as much as you do.

All the best,

Matthew


----------



## Clever Moniker

As for your comment on my forum, I'm a libertarian and it's a public forum. People are always welcome to share information and sell slingshots. If you don't like that, feel free to move along.


----------



## AZ Stinger

Well Mr Hayes, after reading your slanderous and accusatory remarks regarding the SSC I feel compelled to say that I feel that these comments are even below your level, you state that the Community is a sounding board for former disgruntled members of this site, I have been a mod on the SSC from day one and I challenge you to back up these accusations, we hold ourselves to high standards and would never allow or take part in such nonsense, later in another post you claim we are a meeting place for the parasites of the slingshot world ??? are you kidding me Bill, making ridiculous statements such as these truly says volumes about your character, or lack of it.... as far as you being a active member on the SSC site, I do remember when you first joined the site and got into a discussion about TTF, you made some claims that once again you can not back up with proof and I truly feel that because you were out of your element with nobody backing you, you decided to not get involved in any further discussions, and, that is your choice....so once again let me make this clear, The SSC has never, and never will slander the good name of The SSF as you have here today....well done Bill, have a good day sir

Ray Urban


----------



## Charles

All right, my friends ... The signal to noise ratio here is getting pretty low. Please avoid personal attacks and name calling. I am asking everyone to take a deep breath and just cool off for a while ... PLEASE!

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## AZ Stinger

Charles said:


> All right, my friends ... The signal to noise ratio here is getting pretty low. Please avoid personal attacks and name calling. I am asking everyone to take a deep breath and just cool off for a while ... PLEASE!
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


My apologies Charles, I was deeply offended by Mr Hayes statements regarding the SSC and I felt the need to speak up, certainly not looking to get in a pissing match with anyone.....Cheers


----------



## Keith.B.Nimble

Nice video JD

I have followed several of your videos on Youtube and have always found them interesting. Keep up the great work.

Keith


----------



## SharpshooterJD

Tremoside said:


> Y2B is packed with some Audacity tutorials. As for noise removal you can check this. You need to convert your video audio to a single WAV (or something similar pro sound waveform) to load into AC. A free software is RealPlayer (now Cloud version is out) that's pretty easy to work with when you need an extraction audio. It has a Real Player Converter drag&drop application that works seamlessy. If you're not a fan of clouds you have to review settings of Real Player itself. Real Player is super easy but has it's lacks from time to time. That's not performance but my advice is to turn off every cloud and internet functions including updates. My brother is an ethical hacker and graduated with RealPlayer problems of leaking info while overloading. Anyway it's still one of the easiest app to use for converting videos and audio and for us average users works just fine.
> 
> Before you start editing your video you have to load the separated and refined audio file and edit the video-audio accordingly. Premiere Pro is an easy to do soft for this.
> 
> If you want to reduce the size of your video sources you can try Handbrake. A great ready to go software. Since cameras are creating larger files to avoid compression intensive recording it's a good point to reduce file size for storage. However the best if you pick audio from the original file and then make convert with Handbrake since it can create some noises that comes from hardware (espescially true with notebooks).
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> It's much easier to perform and present with introverted personality than with extroverted. Belive me and just keep to be honest and straight to the point. As you go forward you can develop in rhetorics. It's all about learning and as I see you have no problem with that  Just don't force yourself to appear someone else. Keep your own pace and you will recognise what works for you and what works for the people you target.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Mark


Thanks for the tips Tremo! I will have to look into the audio editing. I also just got a new camera that does a better job of noise cancellation, and I am thinking about getting an external mic for it, which should help. Just wondering if you could explain what you meant here? "What you may have to consider is matching your voices volume and the music. Audacity is just perfect for quick noise reduction, for boosting volume and get back to your original voice tone. This tone is usually suffers from open mic records."

You think so? I have always heard it is easier for outgoing people. I am not near as good of a speaker as I would like. But I am working on it . Thanks for this. I try to speak the truth in all I do and I definitely try to be myself, although sometimes I start queuing off of my competitors and focus too much on success and forget the reason why I do this. Thanks for the encouragement and the help! Josh


----------



## Bill Hays

Stinger,

What would you say if I told you that RIGHT NOW, as I write this there is a thread on the first freakin' page of your site labeled "SPS Slingshot".... where one of your members made a copy of an SPS "for a customer"... and he is getting the "Good work" and so forth encouragement from your own staff...

To me that is a exactly what I'm talking about... your website encourages, befriends, and promotes unauthorized copying and sales of other designers slingshots... even though those designers have made it more than abundantly clear they don't wish to be copied in any way by other sellers.

You feel I'm belittling and slandering your site... while at the same time you are literally doing what I said you are doing... Man, you've got some stones to come on here and accuse me...

Okay, just for giggles, can someone tell me the grip I use on my TubeMaster Sniper in the video below... made almost 3 years ago?

I guess I need a lesson in how to hold my own designs... because that certainly looks like a pinch grip... and that definitely is a TubeMaster Sniper with an offset grip to accommodate that style... just like so many of my other designs over the years...


----------



## SharpshooterJD

Thank you everyone for your kind words. And thank you Oldmiser, John, Charles for trying to quiet this down a bit. Thank you Clever for trying to move this argument to a PM. I regret that I cannot respond to every one of you. But I have been very touched by your words and your encouragement. I had no idea I had so many supporters here. I am sure there are other that can help as well John, but if you have any questions about starting on Youtube I would be more than happy to help . I would love to see you posting vids man . Bill, I really don't want to take sides here, but I think Clever came up with a legitimate design on his own. We are all inspired by others designs and like I said previously, there are not that many different ways to make a TTF side shooter. I am sorry but it is true. I don't see the problem as he is not trying to sell his design, and is not competing with you in any way. And even if he was he has full right to. I would very much appreciate if you discussed this further with him on PM if you don't mind. Thank you all for taking the time to write in . Josh


----------



## SharpshooterJD

Bill, I will start reporting your comments if you don't stop posting them on this thread. I no I don't really have any authority here, but this has gone too far.


----------



## AZ Stinger

Bill Hays said:


> Stinger,
> 
> What would you say if I told you that RIGHT NOW, as I write this there is a thread on the first freakin' page of your site labeled "SPS Slingshot".... where one of your members made a copy of an SPS "for a customer"... and he is getting the "Good work" and so forth encouragement from your own staff...
> 
> To me that is a exactly what I'm talking about... your website encourages, befriends, and promotes unauthorized copying and sales of other designers slingshots... even though those designers have made it more than abundantly clear they don't wish to be copied in any way by other sellers.
> 
> You feel I'm belittling and slandering your site... while at the same time you are literally doing what I said you are doing... Man, you've got some stones to come on here and accuse me...
> 
> Okay, just for giggles, can someone tell me the grip I use on my TubeMaster Sniper in the video below... made almost 3 years ago?
> 
> I guess I need a lesson in how to hold my own designs... because that certainly looks like a pinch grip... and that definitely is a TubeMaster Sniper with an offset grip to accommodate that style... just like so many of my other designs over the years...


I`ve just viewed the site and I guess what I would say is I have no clue as to what site you were looking at as I see no pics or posts about SPS slings, we have never encouraged builders to copy anyone`s work and we have no way or desire to police the actions of others, members from all sites have copied the works of others so it is not exclusive to only the SSC, I have seen works copied in the past and if I feel that the builder has turned out a nice piece I have no problem saying so but once again let me state for the record that neither I nor any other staff member has ever encouraged anyone to copy someone else`s work ! as far as accusing you I have done nothing more than pointed out your shortcomings as a man, and yes I do have big stones, too bad some others don`t as well...


----------



## Bill Hays

AZ Stinger said:


> I`ve just viewed the site and I guess what I would say is I have no clue as to what site you were looking at as I see no pics or posts about SPS slings, we have never encouraged builders to copy anyone`s work and we have no way or desire to police the actions of others, members from all sites have copied the works of others so it is not exclusive to only the SSC, I have seen works copied in the past and if I feel that the builder has turned out a nice piece I have no problem saying so but once again let me state for the record that neither I nor any other staff member has ever encouraged anyone to copy someone else`s work ! as far as accusing you I have done nothing more than pointed out your shortcomings as a man, and yes I do have big stones, too bad some others don`t as well...


http://www.slingshotcommunity.com/threads/sps-slingshot.5800/

Reply #10 is actually from you yourself.... keep up the denials... it's rather humorous.


----------



## SharpshooterJD

AZ Stinger said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stinger,
> 
> What would you say if I told you that RIGHT NOW, as I write this there is a thread on the first freakin' page of your site labeled "SPS Slingshot".... where one of your members made a copy of an SPS "for a customer"... and he is getting the "Good work" and so forth encouragement from your own staff...
> 
> To me that is a exactly what I'm talking about... your website encourages, befriends, and promotes unauthorized copying and sales of other designers slingshots... even though those designers have made it more than abundantly clear they don't wish to be copied in any way by other sellers.
> 
> You feel I'm belittling and slandering your site... while at the same time you are literally doing what I said you are doing... Man, you've got some stones to come on here and accuse me...
> 
> Okay, just for giggles, can someone tell me the grip I use on my TubeMaster Sniper in the video below... made almost 3 years ago?
> 
> I guess I need a lesson in how to hold my own designs... because that certainly looks like a pinch grip... and that definitely is a TubeMaster Sniper with an offset grip to accommodate that style... just like so many of my other designs over the years...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I`ve just viewed the site and I guess what I would say is I have no clue as to what site you were looking at as I see no pics or posts about SPS slings, we have never encouraged builders to copy anyone`s work and we have no way or desire to police the actions of others, members from all sites have copied the works of others so it is not exclusive to only the SSC, I have seen works copied in the past and if I feel that the builder has turned out a nice piece I have no problem saying so but once again let me state for the record that neither I nor any other staff member has ever encouraged anyone to copy someone else`s work ! as far as accusing you I have done nothing more than pointed out your shortcomings as a man, and yes I do have big stones, too bad some others don`t as well...
Click to expand...

AZ, I appreciate your desire to have the truth. But instigating this argument further is not beneficial. If you have any further comments to make to Bill, I would very much appreciate it if you did it in a PM. Thanks .


----------



## AZ Stinger

sharpshooterJD said:


> AZ Stinger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stinger,
> 
> What would you say if I told you that RIGHT NOW, as I write this there is a thread on the first freakin' page of your site labeled "SPS Slingshot".... where one of your members made a copy of an SPS "for a customer"... and he is getting the "Good work" and so forth encouragement from your own staff...
> 
> To me that is a exactly what I'm talking about... your website encourages, befriends, and promotes unauthorized copying and sales of other designers slingshots... even though those designers have made it more than abundantly clear they don't wish to be copied in any way by other sellers.
> 
> You feel I'm belittling and slandering your site... while at the same time you are literally doing what I said you are doing... Man, you've got some stones to come on here and accuse me...
> 
> Okay, just for giggles, can someone tell me the grip I use on my TubeMaster Sniper in the video below... made almost 3 years ago?
> 
> I guess I need a lesson in how to hold my own designs... because that certainly looks like a pinch grip... and that definitely is a TubeMaster Sniper with an offset grip to accommodate that style... just like so many of my other designs over the years...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I`ve just viewed the site and I guess what I would say is I have no clue as to what site you were looking at as I see no pics or posts about SPS slings, we have never encouraged builders to copy anyone`s work and we have no way or desire to police the actions of others, members from all sites have copied the works of others so it is not exclusive to only the SSC, I have seen works copied in the past and if I feel that the builder has turned out a nice piece I have no problem saying so but once again let me state for the record that neither I nor any other staff member has ever encouraged anyone to copy someone else`s work ! as far as accusing you I have done nothing more than pointed out your shortcomings as a man, and yes I do have big stones, too bad some others don`t as well...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> AZ, I appreciate your desire to have the truth. But instigating this argument further is not beneficial. If you have any further comments to make to Bill, I would very much appreciate it if you did it in a PM. Thanks .
Click to expand...

you mean I can`t tell him that's not an SPS haha....all good my man, like I said, I`m not trying to stir the pot, just sticking up for the good folks on the SSC....and I really have nothing more to say to him, it`s useless


----------



## SharpshooterJD

AZ, I appreciate you sticking up for everyone, and I am not saying that these issues shouldn't be sorted out. I just don't think back and forth arguing on a public thread is really helping anything. If my comment came off as rude I apologize. Josh


----------



## AZ Stinger

sharpshooterJD said:


> AZ, I appreciate you sticking up for everyone, and I am not saying that these issues shouldn't be sorted out. I just don't think back and forth arguing on a public thread is really helping anything. If my comment came off as rude I apologize. Josh


No problem at all my friend...keep up the good work


----------



## SharpshooterJD

AZ Stinger said:


> sharpshooterJD said:
> 
> 
> 
> AZ, I appreciate you sticking up for everyone, and I am not saying that these issues shouldn't be sorted out. I just don't think back and forth arguing on a public thread is really helping anything. If my comment came off as rude I apologize. Josh
> 
> 
> 
> No problem at all my friend...keep up the good work
Click to expand...

Thanks AZ . Will do!


----------



## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.


The R10 was posted in 2014.

There are 15 captures of your gallery since 2011 on web archives:
https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://pocketpredator.com/gallery.html

How come the image isn't in your gallery in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, only in 2015? (unless I missed it? I can be wrong at times of course)

Please explain why you have a "copyright" of 2011??? (please do not report JD but let Bill Hays explain himself).

Since you think they seem so much alike, (and I usually tell everyone they can sell my work) I'll kindly ask that you stop selling my work, or calling my work yours.

Kind regards,

Matthew


----------



## SharpshooterJD

Very well. Just please, no name calling, and keep your responses respectful. We are all friends here.


----------



## Henry the Hermit

Yes, WF is watching.


----------



## Slingshot Silas

Webfoot said:


> Yes, WF is watching.


 :wave: Hey Webfoot, :angrymod:

Where'd *MY* stuff go? :question:

Disappointed Steve :...: :banned: :nono:

So, *MY* :twocents: gets :thumbsdown: :thumbsdown: ?

Wow, don't seem quite fair on a three page rant!


----------



## Henry the Hermit

Yours was a purely personal attack, as was the one just before it. Be thankful I'm traveling and haven't time to read the whole thread. Clean it up by tonight, guys, or it's gone.


----------



## Slingshot Silas

Webfoot said:


> Yours was a purely personal attack, as was the one just before it. Be thankful I'm traveling and haven't time to read the whole thread. Clean it up by tonight, guys, or it's gone.


Hello Webfoot,

Hope you have had a nice holiday. I *have* read the whole thread. The attacks started on page 1. I didn't have a chicken in these guys contest either, but I did make a humorous social commentary about it that was apparently eliminated, as in erased from the thread. It was not a personal attack as you call it. Just some friendly jabbing. I guess some folks have a different sense of humor than others. I'm sure that when you get home from holiday, you will find that the whole thing probably should have been shut down two and a half pages ago. I guess all the other moderators are on holiday too. I did see where Charles made a comment earlier in the thread, certainly not to single him out. Censoring me, and saying I made a personal attack, is just plain wrong, but apparently well within your influence and sphere of control. I trust you will have a safe trip home from holiday, and I sincerely mean that.

Disappointed, but respectfully yours,

Steve Tucker AKA Slingshot Silas


----------



## Clever Moniker

Webfoot said:


> Yours was a purely personal attack, as was the one just before it. Be thankful I'm traveling and haven't time to read the whole thread. Clean it up by tonight, guys, or it's gone.


My posts are as clean as they come, I'm looking for an accounting by Bill Hays on why he's faked a 2011 "copyright", and then posted the design to his website in 2015. 1 year after my R10 design.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/44093-r10-shooting-test/?p=551593

Please do not delete this thread as I'd really like an accounting by Bill Hays on this behavior.


----------



## reset

Jd my compliments on a nice video. Also you are showing a lot of class for a young fella,allowing this crap to carry on seeing as your the OP. It totally destroyed a good start to a good thread.

This should have been shut down way long ago imho. Wheres the harsh moderating that some who have left this forum complain of? It sure dont exist on this thread.


----------



## Clever Moniker

reset said:


> Jd my compliments on a nice video. Also you are showing a lot of class for a young fella,allowing this crap to carry on seeing as your the OP. It totally destroyed a good start to a good thread.
> 
> This should have been shut down way long ago imho. Wheres the harsh moderating that some who have left this forum complain of? It sure dont exist on this thread.


Actually, I've seen some changes for the better in that regard recently, and yes I do believe they have been patient with this thread. I do think the thread should stay open as I'd love a response from Bill.


----------



## Clever Moniker

You see, there are two options. Either you actually made it in the past, and updated your gallery this year... OR you made it this year.

In either case, I didn't copy off your gallery as you claim I did... I feel an apology is in order.


----------



## Bill Hays

Clever Moniker said:


> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The R10 was posted in 2014.
> 
> There are 15 captures of your gallery since 2011 on web archives:
> https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://pocketpredator.com/gallery.html
> 
> How come the image isn't in your gallery in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, only in 2015? (unless I missed it? I can be wrong at times of course)
> 
> Please explain why you have a "copyright" of 2011??? (please do not report JD but let Bill Hays explain himself).
> 
> Since you think they seem so much alike, (and I usually tell everyone they can sell my work) I'll kindly ask that you stop selling my work, or calling my work yours.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Matthew
Click to expand...

Actually there's a very simple explanation. I like many other webmasters and designers move, delete and change out photos all the time. When I see a design that I want to pull because I want to work on it some more, that's what I do. If there's photos that some find objectionable sometimes I'll move or remove them... If there's to many of one particular type or design shown, I'll pull and switch out... It's a very common practice... and of course the gallery morphs over time due to that fact. Some designs, like the Cowboys... the first image in the gallery as a matter of fact... have been there from the beginning because they were in fact the very first slingshot design I sold... AND GUESS WHAT... THEY TOO PERFECTLY ILLUSTRATE THE OFFSET GRIP.

That particular design (the standard) was first released and shown in the spring of 2011. After that it was pulled for a while to make modifications and so forth.

In fact, I've given away many, many of those and have also given away many of the modified versions as well. Some to forum members, but mostly to kids that I teach how to shoot.

Also as a matter of fact... somewhere on this site... I don't have the time to look for it right now, is a review and some shooting done by Beanflip with one of the later ones modified with palm swells and so forth... but if anyone wants to look, it was done a little after last year's MWST (2014), where I gave it to him.


----------



## Clever Moniker

edit


----------



## Clever Moniker

Bill Hays said:


> Clever Moniker said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill Hays said:
> 
> 
> 
> Nice shooting JD, you're really getting there Man!
> 
> Hey, just out of curiosity... where did you get the template for that slingshot, as it's almost exactly like one I made up a few years ago, but I don't remember posting a template though... and I certainly didn't call it an "R10"
> 
> EDIT: Nevermind, I rewatched with the sound turned on... now I see what the deal is.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The R10 was posted in 2014.
> 
> There are 15 captures of your gallery since 2011 on web archives:
> https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://pocketpredator.com/gallery.html
> 
> How come the image isn't in your gallery in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, only in 2015? (unless I missed it? I can be wrong at times of course)
> 
> Please explain why you have a "copyright" of 2011??? (please do not report JD but let Bill Hays explain himself).
> 
> Since you think they seem so much alike, (and I usually tell everyone they can sell my work) I'll kindly ask that you stop selling my work, or calling my work yours.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Matthew
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Actually there's a very simple explanation. I like many other webmasters and designers move, delete and change out photos all the time. When I see a design that I want to pull because I want to work on it some more, that's what I do. If there's photos that some find objectionable sometimes I'll move or remove them... If there's to many of one particular type or design shown, I'll pull and switch out... It's a very common practice... and of course the gallery morphs over time due to that fact. Some designs, like the Cowboys... the first image in the gallery as a matter of fact... have been there from the beginning because they were in fact the very first slingshot design I sold... AND GUESS WHAT... THEY TOO PERFECTLY ILLUSTRATE THE OFFSET GRIP.
> 
> That particular design (the standard) was first released and shown in the spring of 2011. After that it was pulled for a while to make modifications and so forth.
> 
> In fact, I've given away many, many of those and have also given away many of the modified versions as well. Some to forum members, but mostly to kids that I teach how to shoot.
> 
> Also as a matter of fact... somewhere on this site... I don't have the time to look for it right now, is a review and some shooting done by Beanflip with one of the later ones modified with palm swells and so forth... but if anyone wants to look, it was done a little after last year's MWST (2014), where I gave it to him.
Click to expand...

You think it's right to pull designs off your online gallery for 4 years, than update it, and then say to someone:
"Look, I know my gallery is a very nice resource... I made it so people can get an idea of some of the things that are possible and then maybe build on that... but it does not in any way make it okay to have an "open season" going through it choosing designs and hardware... taking those, making up blueprints and then placing them on your website."

I have provided proof it wasn't in your gallery... Be a man and just apologize for the accusation.

Instead of apologizing, you're just gonna say I took it from somewhere else like this video or something. There is no situation in your mind where I didn't seek out your work... it must be the case.

Also, as I have asked previously, can you please tell everyone right now what "intellectual property" you have? What patents do you hold may I ask?


----------



## Bill Hays

No, I put the image back up a couple of days after Beanflip did his review last year. Which would have been perfect timing for you to become "inspired" at that time.

Look, you have an out Mat... all you have to say is you were inspired by a "bloodshot" design... since he's right there on your own site. And it's not that you know or don't know that he stole that design... just because pretty much everything he sells is a complete ripoff, stolen from someone else, that's not your problem... After all you can claim a political ideology, turn a blind eye to it and continue to support, befriend and promote parasitic behaviour.


----------



## Clever Moniker

I have proof it wasn't in your gallery as you claim, and yet you still refuse to take back what you said to me?? It wasn't in ANY year until 2015. As it stands now, it looks as though you added it after the fact, and then came on here to try and accuse me.

If you're mad at bloodshot, take it up with him... I'm confused as to what patent he is violating though, like I have asked several times, please fill everyone in on the "intellectual property" you hold?

Glad you know my political stance, it's a public forum and I support the sharing of information and the selling of slingshots, so why even discuss that further?


----------



## JohnKrakatoa

I would say this discussion is over, no point in responding CM. Clearly Mr. Hays won't admit defeat, even if he clearly was the one to not provide sufficient facts to support his accusation.

Somehow he always comes up with clever answers that as if with luck match his arguments.

The real facts are, CM design process of the R10 is documented very well, in an open source, if not more.

Mr. Hays design process is howevere misteriously hidden from public record. I didnt find any review as he claims. But maybe I just suck at searching. Anyway, if he wants to prove its his design, he has to provide the evidence. He somehow pulled the image from his gallery on all of the 5 or so record days on webarchive. That seems unprobable.

All of this is just void talk anyway, since nobody of the two holds any patents on this design.

It seems to me CM was just fed up with Mr. Hays accusations of other people copying his designs (eg. Tremoside, which is clearly a wrongful accusation), which are quite frequent.

Thats why he responded in this conversation as he did, which with Mr.Hays argumenting style, is just fuel to the fire that already cant be stopped and doesnt need any more energy.

This my opinion based on what I saw. My last post on this issue.

P.s.: stop pulling Bloodshot into this issue Mr.Hays, thats just changing the subject or evading.

So sorry once again JD, but Mr.Hays started this here, and then chose to continue this here even when CM contacted him privately?


----------



## Clever Moniker

He's done this to so many people it's crazy.

The thing is, even if he finds a way to say it was some other method by which I copied him (which is what he'll attempt to do), because he can't use the gallery argument anymore.

I don't believe they look remotely the same:


----------



## SharpshooterJD

OK I think we are done here. I probably shouldn't of allowed that to go on as long as it did. But since I don't have any real power here and because Clever asked me to let him talk it out, I obliged. I still don't think anything was accomplished, but that's not for me to say. Have a good day everyone . Josh


----------



## SharpshooterJD

reset said:


> Jd my compliments on a nice video. Also you are showing a lot of class for a young fella,allowing this crap to carry on seeing as your the OP. It totally destroyed a good start to a good thread.
> 
> This should have been shut down way long ago imho. Wheres the harsh moderating that some who have left this forum complain of? It sure dont exist on this thread.


Thanks reset! I don't think the thread should of been shut down. It would of been nice if that argument could of happened over PM, but from what I could tell, it doesn't look like that was CM's fault. And I think CM had the right to ask for the truth since Bill basically accused him of stealing. The only thing I regret is that the issue wasn't really resolved, and I didn't figure it would be. But I hope all around there are no hard feelings. If there are, I am very sorry that it happened on my thread. Josh


----------



## AZ Stinger

sharpshooterJD said:


> reset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jd my compliments on a nice video. Also you are showing a lot of class for a young fella,allowing this crap to carry on seeing as your the OP. It totally destroyed a good start to a good thread.
> 
> This should have been shut down way long ago imho. Wheres the harsh moderating that some who have left this forum complain of? It sure dont exist on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks reset! I don't think the thread should of been shut down. It would of been nice if that argument could of happened over PM, but from what I could tell, it doesn't look like that was CM's fault. And I think CM had the right to ask for the truth since Bill basically accused him of stealing. The only thing I regret is that the issue wasn't really resolved, and I didn't figure it would be. But I hope all around there are no hard feelings. If there are, I am very sorry that it happened on my thread. Josh
Click to expand...

Your a good guy Josh and I`m sorry that this happened on your post but things like this are bound to happen here when folks make silly claims, you did all you could to try and shut it down but sometimes folks need to hash these things out...and that is not a bad thing....I am not a believer in shutting posts down when things get heated, let the people speak and get it off their chests....as long as it doesn`t go too far, I give thanks to the mods on this site for letting folks speak their minds on this matter instead of shutting it down as in the usual manner.... once again, keep up the good work and happy shooting


----------



## SharpshooterJD

AZ Stinger said:


> sharpshooterJD said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> reset said:
> 
> 
> 
> Jd my compliments on a nice video. Also you are showing a lot of class for a young fella,allowing this crap to carry on seeing as your the OP. It totally destroyed a good start to a good thread.
> 
> This should have been shut down way long ago imho. Wheres the harsh moderating that some who have left this forum complain of? It sure dont exist on this thread.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks reset! I don't think the thread should of been shut down. It would of been nice if that argument could of happened over PM, but from what I could tell, it doesn't look like that was CM's fault. And I think CM had the right to ask for the truth since Bill basically accused him of stealing. The only thing I regret is that the issue wasn't really resolved, and I didn't figure it would be. But I hope all around there are no hard feelings. If there are, I am very sorry that it happened on my thread. Josh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Your a good guy Josh and I`m sorry that this happened on your post but things like this are bound to happen here when folks make silly claims, you did all you could to try and shut it down but sometimes folks need to hash these things out...and that is not a bad thing....I am not a believer in shutting posts down when things get heated, let the people speak and get it off their chests....as long as it doesn`t go too far, I give thanks to the mods on this site for letting folks speak their minds on this matter instead of shutting it down as in the usual manner.... once again, keep up the good work and happy shooting
Click to expand...

Thanks AZ . I have no hard feelings. Things happen . Same to you, have a good day man .


----------



## oldmiser

Well Josh~As I see it ~You are a young man who has come a long ways in slingshots shooting & with your building....More so than any other young

men who just play video games..With that said you my friend~ Are going to be going place's with this hobby..I am proud to say..I enjoy watching

your new build & sharing on a vedio..Keep with it my friend...~AKAOldmiser


----------



## Tremoside

sharpshooterJD said:


> Tremoside said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y2B is packed with some Audacity tutorials. As for noise removal you can check this. You need to convert your video audio to a single WAV (or something similar pro sound waveform) to load into AC. A free software is RealPlayer (now Cloud version is out) that's pretty easy to work with when you need an extraction audio. It has a Real Player Converter drag&drop application that works seamlessy. If you're not a fan of clouds you have to review settings of Real Player itself. Real Player is super easy but has it's lacks from time to time. That's not performance but my advice is to turn off every cloud and internet functions including updates. My brother is an ethical hacker and graduated with RealPlayer problems of leaking info while overloading. Anyway it's still one of the easiest app to use for converting videos and audio and for us average users works just fine.
> 
> Before you start editing your video you have to load the separated and refined audio file and edit the video-audio accordingly. Premiere Pro is an easy to do soft for this.
> 
> If you want to reduce the size of your video sources you can try Handbrake. A great ready to go software. Since cameras are creating larger files to avoid compression intensive recording it's a good point to reduce file size for storage. However the best if you pick audio from the original file and then make convert with Handbrake since it can create some noises that comes from hardware (espescially true with notebooks).
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> It's much easier to perform and present with introverted personality than with extroverted. Belive me and just keep to be honest and straight to the point. As you go forward you can develop in rhetorics. It's all about learning and as I see you have no problem with that  Just don't force yourself to appear someone else. Keep your own pace and you will recognise what works for you and what works for the people you target.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tips Tremo! I will have to look into the audio editing. I also just got a new camera that does a better job of noise cancellation, and I am thinking about getting an external mic for it, which should help. Just wondering if you could explain what you meant here? "What you may have to consider is matching your voices volume and the music. Audacity is just perfect for quick noise reduction, for boosting volume and get back to your original voice tone. This tone is usually suffers from open mic records."
> 
> You think so? I have always heard it is easier for outgoing people. I am not near as good of a speaker as I would like. But I am working on it . Thanks for this. I try to speak the truth in all I do and I definitely try to be myself, although sometimes I start queuing off of my competitors and focus too much on success and forget the reason why I do this. Thanks for the encouragement and the help! Josh
Click to expand...

Hi Josh, I was away for a family meetup, but back again.

You just have to listen the audio and you will notice some of the parts are louder while others are bit fade. Matching is about finding a volume for each session to make the overall sounds like everything was recorded in the same volume. When you're far from the mic you can tune up volume and add more bass, when you're close to the mic you can reduce volume. When music and voice are at the same level in volume music will always sound as louder. So it's just about making volume "tidier". An good external mic can help a lot, but also add cots.

Yes, it might be easier for outgoing people to perform publicly. But it is just not that. If it's easy that does not neccessarily mean their perform is better after all. Or it's good for them but not for the public . When I have to make a public speech at a conference or similar place I usually plan out every word and tempo and practice with loud reading, including a stopwatch measurement. I'm also not an expressive person originally. I was teaching presentation for two years and found most of outgoing and expressive personalities have problems with proper focus on a subject. For an introvert it's more prepearation and more practice, but also more detailed on the other side. You just have to handle it and do the work. It's so true to evereything around. I've seen so many talents with implulsive personalities and they're disappeared after years. Most of my friends and students who was working calmly and was thinking first and acting later made their "fortune". Life is too long to hurry but just too short to waste time 

Wish you a nice day, happy shooting and success whatever you make,

Mark

In Edit:

I was lucky to meet with Nancy Duarte at a conference and she has some excellent videos in public speech topic. It worth to watch and even if you're not grabbed it can widen vison


----------



## Chuck Daehler

There will be times when someone thinks up a design independant of similar designs they don't know about, innocently, especially a rather generic one, which coincidentally is similar to someone else's design...afterall we all have human brains. The symetry of the two designs is not the same..one's not symetrical, one is and they are both pretty generic, I've seen a number of similar frames to both of them. It appears to me anyway, (this is not a court of law else my statement would be thrown out), that it COULD BE just innocent coindicent innovation. I can see why Bill was concerned yet offered no resistance, in fact,encouragement to sell them, ...no harm in his asking. I'm not taking sides, just thinking out loud.

Just a side note, Bill has inspired several of my slingshots (although I don't sell slingshots at all) and I mentioned that in my write ups...the "Carlos Caramba Carbine" and "The Picnic", posted on my wife's gallery, under the handle of "Susi". That was just common respect and courtesy to mention his designing inspired me and I was very happy to do it. I didn't have to though, for again, I don't sell slingshots, it's just ethical and I must follow ethics or my life would be worthless. I might comment such that sensitive types are put out at me, sorry 'bout that, but as far as ethics go. I follow a narrow line...and suggest others follow that example.

Nice shooting in the video and a very nice job on your plywood slingshot. Even pine ply is good enough for slingshots given it's thick enough and doesn't sustain a serious fork tip hit...if it does and it ruins the fork tip..well...that's just bad luck. Ply isn't the only material that secums to fork tip hits...some of the beauty contest types also will shatter if they don't have a metal core...and even so the wood is often damaged so much it will always bear a cosmetic scar.

The good thing about ply is it's an inexpensive easily worked/routed material out of which a half dozen SSs can be made at once, essentially one for every nook and cranny and if one is damaged, well, so what? A board cut is so fast to make, a matter of minutes other than waiting for the P.U. to dry. Frankly I like ply...my Pine Ply Plinker is one of my favs in fact with full ergo, thick forks and handle.

Fork hits on wide deep forked SSs are usually the result of poor handling or shooting stance...beginner-itis I call it...so not much of a worry about fork hits for more experienced slingshoters.

A+ Slingshots, a vendor here, is a fine line of plywood shooters for example and at pretty reasonable prices if you don't wanna make one.

Finally, I'll say Bill Hays has offered a miriad of designs on his web site, it's a virtual museum of invention. He's put these designs on line obviously for folks to see and to generate orders and business to help sustain his life style's income necessities AS WELL AS offer the designs so we may be inspired by them and craft slingshots to our liking. When it comes to benovalence, not only in making his designs available but in his business practices from what I gather on this forum, Bill scores a perfect 10. I'd love to have him and a bunch of guys on this forum as neighbors and personal friends.

Bill's right, JD has an out in just saying, "Bill inspired me" if that is the case.

Cal for example knocked off Bill's design in a printed frame, SENT BILL A COUPLE just as a courtesy and critique of his printing, and openly acknowledged Bill's inspiration. Cal also does not sell them...and if he did it would be with a mutual agreement between Cal and Bill...just as a European maker and Bil have collaborated in business too...ethically and up front. Bill even GAVE his Boy Scout slingshot template to Boy Scouts of America so youngsters could get to making slingshots themselves...and others as well could copy, mod and use.

It was Nathan of Simple Shot (a respected vendor here) who asked me if he wanted to use some of my designs that we could collaborate...asking first as Nathan did, was the ethical thing to do. My reply was that anything I made was open source and that anyone could use whatever I designed without compensation. But the point is, Nathan ASKED me.

I've gone back and edited this a number of times so re-read it..done with edits.


----------



## August West

I would like to personally thank you for having as little contact as possible with our parasitic forum, and by all means continue to do so in the future.


----------



## SharpshooterJD

oldmiser said:


> Well Josh~As I see it ~You are a young man who has come a long ways in slingshots shooting & with your building....More so than any other young
> 
> men who just play video games..With that said you my friend~ Are going to be going place's with this hobby..I am proud to say..I enjoy watching
> 
> your new build & sharing on a vedio..Keep with it my friend...~AKAOldmiser


Thanks so much oldmiser .


----------



## SharpshooterJD

Tremoside said:


> sharpshooterJD said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Tremoside said:
> 
> 
> 
> Y2B is packed with some Audacity tutorials. As for noise removal you can check this. You need to convert your video audio to a single WAV (or something similar pro sound waveform) to load into AC. A free software is RealPlayer (now Cloud version is out) that's pretty easy to work with when you need an extraction audio. It has a Real Player Converter drag&drop application that works seamlessy. If you're not a fan of clouds you have to review settings of Real Player itself. Real Player is super easy but has it's lacks from time to time. That's not performance but my advice is to turn off every cloud and internet functions including updates. My brother is an ethical hacker and graduated with RealPlayer problems of leaking info while overloading. Anyway it's still one of the easiest app to use for converting videos and audio and for us average users works just fine.
> 
> Before you start editing your video you have to load the separated and refined audio file and edit the video-audio accordingly. Premiere Pro is an easy to do soft for this.
> 
> If you want to reduce the size of your video sources you can try Handbrake. A great ready to go software. Since cameras are creating larger files to avoid compression intensive recording it's a good point to reduce file size for storage. However the best if you pick audio from the original file and then make convert with Handbrake since it can create some noises that comes from hardware (espescially true with notebooks).
> 
> -------------------------
> 
> It's much easier to perform and present with introverted personality than with extroverted. Belive me and just keep to be honest and straight to the point. As you go forward you can develop in rhetorics. It's all about learning and as I see you have no problem with that  Just don't force yourself to appear someone else. Keep your own pace and you will recognise what works for you and what works for the people you target.
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the tips Tremo! I will have to look into the audio editing. I also just got a new camera that does a better job of noise cancellation, and I am thinking about getting an external mic for it, which should help. Just wondering if you could explain what you meant here? "What you may have to consider is matching your voices volume and the music. Audacity is just perfect for quick noise reduction, for boosting volume and get back to your original voice tone. This tone is usually suffers from open mic records."
> 
> You think so? I have always heard it is easier for outgoing people. I am not near as good of a speaker as I would like. But I am working on it . Thanks for this. I try to speak the truth in all I do and I definitely try to be myself, although sometimes I start queuing off of my competitors and focus too much on success and forget the reason why I do this. Thanks for the encouragement and the help! Josh
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hi Josh, I was away for a family meetup, but back again.
> 
> You just have to listen the audio and you will notice some of the parts are louder while others are bit fade. Matching is about finding a volume for each session to make the overall sounds like everything was recorded in the same volume. When you're far from the mic you can tune up volume and add more bass, when you're close to the mic you can reduce volume. When music and voice are at the same level in volume music will always sound as louder. So it's just about making volume "tidier". An good external mic can help a lot, but also add cots.
> 
> Yes, it might be easier for outgoing people to perform publicly. But it is just not that. If it's easy that does not neccessarily mean their perform is better after all. Or it's good for them but not for the public . When I have to make a public speech at a conference or similar place I usually plan out every word and tempo and practice with loud reading, including a stopwatch measurement. I'm also not an expressive person originally. I was teaching presentation for two years and found most of outgoing and expressive personalities have problems with proper focus on a subject. For an introvert it's more prepearation and more practice, but also more detailed on the other side. You just have to handle it and do the work. It's so true to evereything around. I've seen so many talents with implulsive personalities and they're disappeared after years. Most of my friends and students who was working calmly and was thinking first and acting later made their "fortune". Life is too long to hurry but just too short to waste time
> 
> Wish you a nice day, happy shooting and success whatever you make,
> 
> Mark
> 
> In Edit:
> 
> I was lucky to meet with Nancy Duarte at a conference and she has some excellent videos in public speech topic. It worth to watch and even if you're not grabbed it can widen vison
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help man! OK I get it now. I know what you mean about the volume differences. I think I am going to get a mic fairly soon. You can get them for fairly cheap, I just have to find the right adapters and such. My goal is to have to do the least amount of editing possible. Just cause I have so many other responsibilities. The more time I have to spend on it, the less likely I will be able to continue it in the future. But I will definitely start putting more thought into the audio and look at some tutorials and such on simple ways to fix it.

On the subject of speaking, I actually have never used a script. Again with that time commitment. Generally I know what I want to say, sometimes it just takes a couple of try's for it to come out right . But I am always trying to improve in that area. When I first started I couldn't even talk in front of a camera. So I think I have come a long way from that point . But I still have a ton of room for improvement.

Ha brilliantly said . "Life is too long to hurry but just too short to waste time."

I will watch that video the first chance I get. Same to you! Take care, Josh


----------



## SmilingFury

Too soon???








Yes, it is a joke everyone. Lighten up.

Be well,
SF


----------



## treefork

I think people forget what kind of man Bill Hays really is . Here is a post I find interesting . Involves the generosity to the family of the R10 inventor . How soon people forget .

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27633-bill-hays-may-be-the-nicest-guy-ever/

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27396-hathcock-hts-setup-with-tubes-in-ttf/

Remember : What's posted here stays here FOREVER .


----------



## Clever Moniker

treefork said:


> Quote
> I think people forget what kind of man Bill Hays really is . Here is a post I find interesting . Involves the generosity to the family of the R10 inventor . How soon people forget .
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27633-bill-hays-may-be-the-nicest-guy-ever/
> 
> http://slingshotforum.com/topic/27396-hathcock-hts-setup-with-tubes-in-ttf/
> 
> Remember : What's posted here stays here FOREVER .


Bill is generous with sending shooters to people... at least he has been with me in the past. I wish those threads do stay on here forever.

This is a separate topic though. My issue is with what was said in the thread, but I don't wish to rehash it.


----------



## Emitto

Wait a minute where my post go?


----------



## treefork

View attachment 87727


Right here dude . It's a good one . I pressed like .


----------



## Henry the Hermit

Emitto said:


> Wait a minute where my post go?


I hid it because this pot doesn't need any more stirring.


----------



## CanH8r

Boo moderation.


----------



## pult421

For whats its worth.. if numbers speak volumes then maybe you dont have to respond to the bs bill. Jd. You da man. Keep it up


----------



## Sr.Miss Alot

August West said:


> I would like to personally thank you for having as little contact as possible with our parasitic forum, and by all means continue to do so in the future.


----------



## Sr.Miss Alot

Is it safe to hang out on the other forum? I don't want to get cooties or anything.


----------



## Henry the Hermit

CanH8r said:


> Boo moderation.


Moderation is very easy to avoid. Be polite and respectful to others and no one will moderate you.


----------



## AZ Stinger

Webfoot said:


> CanH8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boo moderation.
> 
> 
> 
> Moderation is very easy to avoid. Be polite and respectful to others and no one will moderate you.
Click to expand...

All due respect Henry but if that's the case then where were the mods when Mr Hayes was disrespectful to CM and was slandering members on the SSC and the site in general ?


----------



## JonM

AZ Stinger said:


> Webfoot said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CanH8r said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boo moderation.
> 
> 
> 
> Moderation is very easy to avoid. Be polite and respectful to others and no one will moderate you.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> All due respect Henry but if that's the case then where were the mods when Mr Hayes was disrespectful to CM and was slandering members on the SSC and the site in general ?
Click to expand...

I agree. Where were the mods while that occurred??? It appears to be overt discrimination. Care to explaIn?


----------



## quarterinmynose

8==> seriously. LOL. if you guys only knew.

I'm sorry this happened to your thread Josh, but sometimes egos get in the way....especially when they are really really large.


----------



## Sr.Miss Alot

I could probably explain it but the post would get taken down.


----------



## M.J

Get off the computer and go outside.


----------

