# WHY?



## Cathal

Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...


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## Cjw

That's like asking why one person hits a baseball better with one bat and not another. A lot is personal preference. You may shoot one slingshot really well and another person doesn't. I shoot SPS's and looped tubes. It works well for me. You may not like them at all. Sometimes it's not that something is better it just works for you.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## SLINGDUDE

If only it were that simple. Shooting in general, and slingshots in particular really does boil down to personal preference. The WHY for me is probably not the WHY for you. Figure out what you like and what works for you and stick with it. Improvements will come with time and good practice. There is no magic secret or sacred information held by the experts. Just remember to have fun and enjoy the journey.


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## Rayshot

90 degree twist.

If shooting sideways/gangster style and having an anchor near the cheek or ear and the forearm to elbow is in line with the bands, turning the palm to the ground turns the bands 90 degrees.

*Why? *

* -*It is a much more natural hand and arm position when shooting sideways.

-Also, relaxes the muscles in the arm and helps in not bend the pouch. Bending the pouch creates fork hits.


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## jazz

Well, in some way I think you are right to ask this question, and to make it easier for you, most of us did the same once upon the time.

To answer this question, or a statement, I think that all of us should have one fact on our minds and that fact is that slingshot sport and the accompanying market are still not so important and developed so as that governments and companies invest literally billions of dollar in research, like Space.

With that said, all we have by now is experience and some, I would say, limited experiments.

Let's take as an example width of the forks. Bill Hays took some effort and he showed that wider forks are more efficient than narrow forks. Why? Well, most probably because wider forks for the same length from the point between the forks and the center of the ammo is longer than with the narrow forks, This immediately means that the stretch of the same rubber length is longer, which immediately means that the stretch RATIO is longer and the in the same time ELONGATION is longer.

The first part - higher stretch of the same piece of active rubber, say 5.5 instead of 5 - means more power; but it also means more elongation. BOTH of these parameters affect the velocity of the ammo. Now, there are more questions to be asked here than that, but Bill made a solemn effort, he got some practical results and this is probably enough at this level; for more than that we probably need an institute - which we do not have.

There are other topics, such as what happens when you twist the pouch and, most probably, in this way you give some spin to the ammo - some answers do exist, most probably as the analogy with firearms or so, but truly, a twist applied to a slingshot shot is NOT thoroughly explored and I imagine that for that a fast frame camera is needed, some special marks on the ammo, some true ballistics experts and so on, which we do not have - but Discovery channel does..

So, at least at this moment we are doomed to experience, some limited experiments and analogies and personal preferences even if we had science behind us. Take this as an example: both Bill Hays and the science (if we had one) will tell you that shooting TTF and NO flip makes better results in the sense of precision, target shooting. But I grew up with bareback slingshots made out of old inner bicycle tires, which were so lazy that the flip was indispensable. Today, after 60 years of active shooting I find flipping a slingshot a cool thing to do to a such degree that if flips were forbidden I would then not shoot at all. Some people do it differently and I have no problems with that.

But your question is very important because it forces us to think about real inner workings of the slingshots, which takes time, effort and funds. Again, some people will agree to that, some people wont.

So, maybe in this forum you will not get much scientific answers as WHYS but if you ask and listen carefully you will certainly get valuable leads from people who maybe can not tell you why - because maybe they do not care - but still have a bit of valuable knowledge to share with you and all of us.

I hope this helps,

cheers,

jazz


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## Ibojoe

I’m no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4” tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.


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## Cathal

Cjw said:


> That's like asking why one person hits a baseball better with one bat and not another. A lot is personal preference. You may shoot one slingshot really well and another person doesn't. I shoot SPS's and looped tubes. It works well for me. You may not like them at all. Sometimes it's not that something is better it just works for you.
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


CJW.....
THANKS for the comment.....I wasn't really asking why certain individuals LIKE various slingshots.....or PREFER tubes over flat bands....
My comment was requesting a brief explanation as to WHY x y or z might be of benefit to a shooter rather than just been informed that [" I prefer it"]....thanks .....


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## Cathal

SLINGDUDE said:


> If only it were that simple. Shooting in general, and slingshots in particular really does boil down to personal preference. The WHY for me is probably not the WHY for you. Figure out what you like and what works for you and stick with it. Improvements will come with time and good practice. There is no magic secret or sacred information held by the experts. Just remember to have fun and enjoy the journey.


SLINGDUDE
Thanks for the reply


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## Cathal

Rayshot said:


> 90 degree twist.
> 
> If shooting sideways/gangster style and having an anchor near the cheek or ear and the forearm to elbow is in line with the bands, turning the palm to the ground turns the bands 90 degrees.
> 
> *Why? *
> * -*It is a much more natural hand and arm position when shooting sideways.
> -Also, relaxes the muscles in the arm and helps in not bend the pouch. Bending the pouch creates fork hits.


RAYSHOT
THANKS MAN.....that's a very useful WHY!!!! answered.....


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## Cathal

jazz said:


> Well, in some way I think you are right to ask this question, and to make it easier for you, most of us did the same once upon the time.
> 
> To answer this question, or a statement, I think that all of us should have one fact on our minds and that fact is that slingshot sport and the accompanying market are still not so important and developed so as that governments and companies invest literally billions of dollar in research, like Space.
> 
> With that said, all we have by now is experience and some, I would say, limited experiments.
> 
> Let's take as an example width of the forks. Bill Hays took some effort and he showed that wider forks are more efficient than narrow forks. Why? Well, most probably because wider forks for the same length from the point between the forks and the center of the ammo is longer than with the narrow forks, This immediately means that the stretch of the same rubber length is longer, which immediately means that the stretch RATIO is longer and the in the same time ELONGATION is longer.
> 
> The first part - higher stretch of the same piece of active rubber, say 5.5 instead of 5 - means more power; but it also means more elongation. BOTH of these parameters affect the velocity of the ammo. Now, there are more questions to be asked here than that, but Bill made a solemn effort, he got some practical results and this is probably enough at this level; for more than that we probably need an institute - which we do not have.
> 
> There are other topics, such as what happens when you twist the pouch and, most probably, in this way you give some spin to the ammo - some answers do exist, most probably as the analogy with firearms or so, but truly, a twist applied to a slingshot shot is NOT thoroughly explored and I imagine that for that a fast frame camera is needed, some special marks on the ammo, some true ballistics experts and so on, which we do not have - but Discovery channel does..
> 
> So, at least at this moment we are doomed to experience, some limited experiments and analogies and personal preferences even if we had science behind us. Take this as an example: both Bill Hays and the science (if we had one) will tell you that shooting TTF and NO flip makes better results in the sense of precision, target shooting. But I grew up with bareback slingshots made out of old inner bicycle tires, which were so lazy that the flip was indispensable. Today, after 60 years of active shooting I find flipping a slingshot a cool thing to do to a such degree that if flips were forbidden I would then not shoot at all. Some people do it differently and I have no problems with that.
> 
> But your question is very important because it forces us to think about real inner workings of the slingshots, which takes time, effort and funds. Again, some people will agree to that, some people wont.
> 
> So, maybe in this forum you will not get much scientific answers as WHYS but if you ask and listen carefully you will certainly get valuable leads from people who maybe can not tell you why - because maybe they do not care - but still have a bit of valuable knowledge to share with you and all of us.
> 
> I hope this helps,
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jazz


JAZZ
THANK YOU VERY MUCH for taking time to give such a detailed explanation of those topics....your advise is VERY helpful.....and yes of course I understand slingshotting is not an exact science where we open a book and find a formulaic answer to an issue.....Not been too long a member of the forum I have already harvested a lot of good info and tips.....and I'm sure there's a wealth of more useful stuff waiting to be discovered.........thank you sir....


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## Valery

jazz said:


> Возьмем в качестве примера ширину развилок. Билл Хейз приложил некоторые усилия, и он показал, что более широкие вилки более эффективны, чем узкие вилки. Почему? Ну, скорее всего потому, что более широкие вилки на ту же длину от точки между вилками и центром патрона длиннее, чем с узкими вилками, это сразу же означает, что растяжка той же длины резины длиннее, что сразу же означает, что коэффициент растяжения длиннее и в то же время удлинение длиннее.


Степень инженера-механика и школьный курс геометрии не позволяют мне согласиться с этим. Мое расстояние растяжки составляет около 80 см. При ширине рогатки 10 см длина ленты составляет 80,16 см,при ширине рогатки 6 см длина ленты, соответственно, составляет 80,06 см. Изменение на 0,1 см считается незначительным, и никак не влияет на скорость полета снаряда. Я прошу прощения за использование метрической системы.


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## Cathal

Ibojoe said:


> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.


IBOJOE
THANKS for that .....ok.....so you're ref to OTT here I take it.....?
Rather than go through the entire range of slingshot available.....would you not have adapted to any slingshot by changing your stance slightly or tilting your head slightly???? (A silly comment from me maybe?? but I won't learn unless I ask)
Thank you man


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## Cathal

Valery said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Возьмем в качестве примера ширину развилок. Билл Хейз приложил некоторые усилия, и он показал, что более широкие вилки более эффективны, чем узкие вилки. Почему? Ну, скорее всего потому, что более широкие вилки на ту же длину от точки между вилками и центром патрона длиннее, чем с узкими вилками, это сразу же означает, что растяжка той же длины резины длиннее, что сразу же означает, что коэффициент растяжения длиннее и в то же время удлинение длиннее.
> 
> 
> 
> Степень инженера-механика и школьный курс геометрии не позволяют мне согласиться с этим. Мое расстояние растяжки составляет около 80 см. При ширине рогатки 10 см длина ленты составляет 80,16 см,при ширине рогатки 6 см длина ленты, соответственно, составляет 80,06 см. Изменение на 0,1 см считается незначительным, и никак не влияет на скорость полета снаряда. Я прошу прощения за использование метрической системы.
Click to expand...

VALERY
I'd love to be able to read this.....any English translation available?????


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## Valery

Степень в области машиностроения и школьный курс геометрии не позволяют мне согласиться. Мое расстояние протягивания составляет около 80 см. При ширине рогатки 10 см длина рогатки составляет 80,16 см, при ширине рогатки 6 см длина рогатки составляет 80,06 см соответственно. Изменение на 0,1 см считается незначительным и никак не влияет на скорость полета снаряда. Я прошу прощения за использование метрической системы.


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## Trap1

Cathal said:


> Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
> All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...


Thanks for posting this Cathal !



Ibojoe said:


> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.


I've learned a bit just on the fork width, mentioned by Jazz regarding the work of Bill Hays & Ibojoe, above.

Previously I had thought wide forks = better grip for big hands, arms & men. And had not even considered elongation & power here.

From my brief learning trials so far with a couple different slings I've worked out that for OTT & TTF narrow forks in both are giving me the better reference & anchor points & hence being more accurate than I was a couple of weeks back. (I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet.) I'm not discounting a wider forked TTF yet. Interesting & great fun!

Technical sling stuff put in layman's terms by experienced shooters is real good for us numpties so please keep it coming!


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## Cathal

Trap1 said:


> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
> All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting this Cathal !
> 
> 
> 
> Ibojoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've learned a bit just on the fork width, mentioned by Jazz regarding the work of Bill Hays & Ibojoe, above.
> 
> Previously I had thought wide forks = better grip for big hands, arms & men. And had not even considered elongation & power here.
> 
> From my brief learning trials so far with a couple different slings I've worked out that for OTT & TTF narrow forks in both are giving me the better reference & anchor points & hence being more accurate than I was a couple of weeks back. (I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet.) I'm not discounting a wider forked TTF yet. Interesting & great fun!
> 
> Technical sling stuff put in layman's terms by experienced shooters is real good for us numpties so please keep it coming!
Click to expand...

TRAP1
By your post I can tell you're far ahead of me in this pursuit.....I've just got 1 catty and am trying (hopelessly maybe) to perfect all the attributes that go with this art.....is it a case of "finding "the right fork to settle on (like IBOJOE below mentions)....?????

......


Ibojoe said:


> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.


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## Tag

Great question I feel a lot of us pick out our first slingshot by the appearance. One of my first slingshots was the Hathcock by Bill Hays. The Hathcock is very ergo friendly, but with my small hands, it’s not my best fit. Now people with bigger hands love it. I was very fortunate that Bill Hays brought me a BoyShot, and this fits me perfectly In fact with a lanyard, I can cradle the slingshot without pinch gripping the frame. Since the forks do not extend very far from my hand, I can shoot most tubes from lighter to heavier pull. I’m sure there is scientific evidence that wide versus narrow, and longer versus shorter forks, but when you pick up that one certain slingshot that fits like a glove you will definitely know it’s the right one. As far as shooting, there is a basic stance, but I found that for me I stand like Im hunting with my shotgun. I also do not hold the ammo between my thumb and index finger. I hold the pouch in front of the ammo. I tried to shoot like most other people, but after a few years, I just let it happen. By that I mean I walked out grabbed my BoyShot focused on the small target and let the ammo fly. I’m finally to the place where I have a well fit slingshot, and I guess I halfway shoot instinctively. I hope you keep us posted on your progress. TreeFork says “have fun first“ My thoughts are “find a slingshot that just feels right, a stance that comes naturally and do the same thing every time” . In the end if you are hitting your target the majority of the time and having fun, You win


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## MOJAVE MO

This is how I break it down. I got my first slingshot when I turned 4 in 1968. A wood frames Wham-o that my Gramps bought for 10cents at the Five&Dime. To me that slingshot was a full-function Light Saber by today's standards! My first job in life was to move cows to the dairy barn using that slingshot and whatever ammo was at my feet. I didn't have the distraction of TV, the Internet, or others kids to compare myself. Just Pops yelling at me to 'getter done son'..!!
I guess my point is that it is important to know deep down inside your soul what a slingshot CAN do with some focus and practice. There are shooters on this Forum and others can can put together a slingshot with a coat hanger, some office rubber-bands and a tongue from and old shoe and win a prize at the County Fair with it. I believe they can do this because they just know where that BB is going to go after the 3rd shot!
Yup you are going to make mistakes. Fork hits, hand hits, flyers, and mystery shots too! Now that I am an older adult who believes himself to be a technical genius, I will put together a system I copied from YouTube if I am trying out an unfamiliar frame or experimenting with my hold.
1. Hang a moving blanket from a ceiling about 10 feet away.
2. Put a paper circle in the middle.
3. Use Airsoft Pellets for ammo, or BB's or rubber balls if you can get them.
4. Just start shooting until you hit the paper. 
5. Take notes. 
6. Don't repeat the stuff that doesn't work!
7. Try to remember how smart you were at age 5, but use the Safety Glasses anyway.
8. Once your brain knows where you want to hit your target, then your hands will obey that command.
9. Use The Force.
10. Summary: Scrap my nonsense and go back to square 'one'.

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Grandpa Grumpy

When you ask "Why" about fork tips, pouch turning or anything related to shooting slingshot the answer most us have is that I do it that way because that is what works for me.

I suggest as keeping a journal of things you try. Keep track of what slingshot, bands, tapers, pouch and fork width, aiming reference, pouch turn - anything that comes to mind. Write down did it work, what you liked or didn't like about the set up and what were the results with different ammo.

Pretty quickly you'll figure out what slingshot, bands, tapers and ammo that best fit you.


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## Tremoside

Hi Cathal,

I was reading the forums, old threads, books and magazines about slingshots. If something was unclear I was banding up a frame or carved it to see how it works for me. It requires some patience, but works every time.

Those variables will always flip theory, the pouch you use, the release, the straight thumb, the off center hole, the rust you don't see yet on the steel ball, the elbow position, the jerking movement upon release, if you push your thumb into your anchor, if the frame is not perpendicular.

There is not enough time and thread to explain everything, but a hint may give a heads up for the start.

Just put things in practice.

Regards,

Mark


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## jazz

Hi Valery, first for other people on the Forum here is the Google translation of your comment:

"A mechanical engineer degree and a school geometry course do not allow me to agree with this. My stretching distance is about 80 cm. With a slingshot width of 10 cm, the length of the tape is 80.16 cm, with a width of 6 cm slingshot, the length of the tape is 80.06 cm, respectively. A change of 0.1 cm is considered insignificant and does not affect on the speed of the projectile. I apologize for using the metric system."

Hi, Valery, please note that I only said that there IS a difference and I did not go into significance and I explained one possible WHY as an example which shows that we do know WHYs sometimes (and sometimes we probably only guess.)

You are completely right when you say that the difference is minimal; however, is it significant is not up to me to say - it is subjective what any of us finds significant.

Maybe I should directly stress one thing I had on my mind - that as an example of a WHY ammo flies faster than the same one fired from another setup an answer might be more elongation and more power, both comprised in Bills experiment, and among other known factors.

Also, I forgot to say that Bill's forks were not only wide, but quite wide..

cheers,

jazz


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## Cathal

Tag said:


> Great question I feel a lot of us pick out our first slingshot by the appearance. One of my first slingshots was the Hathcock by Bill Hays. The Hathcock is very ergo friendly, but with my small hands, it's not my best fit. Now people with bigger hands love it. I was very fortunate that Bill Hays brought me a BoyShot, and this fits me perfectly In fact with a lanyard, I can cradle the slingshot without pinch gripping the frame. Since the forks do not extend very far from my hand, I can shoot most tubes from lighter to heavier pull. I'm sure there is scientific evidence that wide versus narrow, and longer versus shorter forks, but when you pick up that one certain slingshot that fits like a glove you will definitely know it's the right one. As far as shooting, there is a basic stance, but I found that for me I stand like Im hunting with my shotgun. I also do not hold the ammo between my thumb and index finger. I hold the pouch in front of the ammo. I tried to shoot like most other people, but after a few years, I just let it happen. By that I mean I walked out grabbed my BoyShot focused on the small target and let the ammo fly. I'm finally to the place where I have a well fit slingshot, and I guess I halfway shoot instinctively. I hope you keep us posted on your progress. TreeFork says "have fun first" My thoughts are "find a slingshot that just feels right, a stance that comes naturally and do the same thing every time" . In the end if you are hitting your target the majority of the time and having fun, You win


THANKS TAG for that solid advice...as it so happens the Hatchcock sniper SMALL was my first purchase (2 weeks ago) and I can't compare it obviously....interesting point u made about the success you're having because "THE FORKS DONT EXTEND TOO FAR ABOVE YOUR HAND"....is that because of the recoil reduction????
And as you said it's all a bit of fun after all....and to enjoy the learning curve is enjoyment in itself


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## Grandpa Grumpy

"THE FORKS DONT EXTEND TOO FAR ABOVE YOUR HAND"....is that because of the recoil reduction????

Shooters tend to grip close to the fork tip to reduce strain on the wrist, especially when using stronger bands.

I think when you ask about recoil you are talking about follow through or "flip". The goal is to intentionally flip to gain speed or help the ammo clear the forks or no flip at all. My personal preference is to avoid flipping. Each shooter has to decide for himself.


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## Cathal

Tremoside said:


> Hi Cathal,
> 
> I was reading the forums, old threads, books and magazines about slingshots. If something was unclear I was banding up a frame or carved it to see how it works for me. It requires some patience, but works every time.
> 
> Those variables will always flip theory, the pouch you use, the release, the straight thumb, the off center hole, the rust you don't see yet on the steel ball, the elbow position, the jerking movement upon release, if you push your thumb into your anchor, if the frame is not perpendicular.
> 
> There is not enough time and thread to explain everything, but a hint may give a heads up for the start.
> 
> Just put things in practice.
> Regards,
> Mark


Thanks Tremoside/Mark.....yes....there are so many variables that have to come together perfectly for the bulls eye shot to happen every time......you explained it well sir...
May I ask you......
How do I know when my fork width is wrong for ME??????
Thanks


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## SJAaz

jazz said:


> Hi Valery, first for other people on the Forum here is the Google translation of your comment:
> 
> "A mechanical engineer degree and a school geometry course do not allow me to agree with this. My stretching distance is about 80 cm. With a slingshot width of 10 cm, the length of the tape is 80.16 cm, with a width of 6 cm slingshot, the length of the tape is 80.06 cm, respectively. A change of 0.1 cm is considered insignificant and does not affect on the speed of the projectile. I apologize for using the metric system."
> 
> Hi, Valery, please note that I only said that there IS a difference and I did not go into significance and I explained one possible WHY as an example which shows that we do know WHYs sometimes (and sometimes we probably only guess.)
> 
> You are completely right when you say that the difference is minimal; however, is it significant is not up to me to say - it is subjective what any of us finds significant.
> 
> Maybe I should directly stress one thing I had on my mind - that as an example of a WHY ammo flies faster than the same one fired from another setup an answer might be more elongation and more power, both comprised in Bills experiment, and among other known factors.
> 
> Also, I forgot to say that Bill's forks were not only wide, but quite wide..
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jazz


What you guys say is true, but the aiming point or anchor point changes markedly with fork gap.


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## Valery

Прошу прощения у участников форума, но я опять пишу на русском языке. рМои скудные знания не позволяют мне писать на английском. ( Странно, я пишу текст, перевожу его в Гугл-переводчике, вставляю в сообщение английский вариант, но форум сообщает, что исходный текст- русский.Что я делаю не так?)

Теперь по делу. Многие из нас проводят разного рода эксперименты, за что им большое спасибо! Однако есть вещи, с которыми я не согласен. Выше я уже писал, что ширина вилки не влияет на скорость снаряда. При всем уважении к Биллу считаю, что он не прав. Для таких опытов надо построить установку, которая обеспечивает повторяемость выстрелов. То есть обеспечивает одинаковое растяжение, одинаковый выпуск, при одинаковой температуре воздуха и ленты. Все должно быть одинаковым, кроме ширины вилки. В противном случае результат субъективный и не может быть математической аксиомой. Однако ширина вилки влияет на комфортность стрельбы! И это скорее всего связано с анатомическими особенностями стрелка. Я примерно одинаково могу стрелять из любой рогатки, но наиболее удобно мне с вилкой 95-100 мм.

Теперь о перекручивании (повороте) сумки. Все отмечают, что точность несколько улучшается. Но я считаю, что это происходит не потому, что шарик получает вращение, как винтовочная пуля, а потому, что в момент выстрела сумка самоцентрируется до того, как её покинет шарик. То есть нивелируется ошибка выпуска. При правильно поставленном выпуске перекручивание не нужно.

Итог: в стрельбе из рогатки громадное количество переменных факторов, и большинство из них индивидуальны для конкретного стрелка. Имея базовые знания можно стрелять, но чтобы стрелять хорошо, надо учитывать индивидуальные особенности! Не все рекомендации годятся для конкретного стрелка. И, возможно, Ваша манера стрельбы будет идти вразрез с общепринятыми нормами, но будет иметь выдающиеся результаты! Тренировки и эксперименты - это весело! Метких выстрелов всем!


----------



## Tremoside

Cathal said:


> Tremoside said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Cathal,
> 
> I was reading the forums, old threads, books and magazines about slingshots. If something was unclear I was banding up a frame or carved it to see how it works for me. It requires some patience, but works every time.
> 
> Those variables will always flip theory, the pouch you use, the release, the straight thumb, the off center hole, the rust you don't see yet on the steel ball, the elbow position, the jerking movement upon release, if you push your thumb into your anchor, if the frame is not perpendicular.
> 
> There is not enough time and thread to explain everything, but a hint may give a heads up for the start.
> 
> Just put things in practice.
> Regards,
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Tremoside/Mark.....yes....there are so many variables that have to come together perfectly for the bulls eye shot to happen every time......you explained it well sir...
> May I ask you......
> How do I know when my fork width is wrong for ME??????
> Thanks
Click to expand...

According to your shooting logbook you will recognize that frame has a high miss rate. You can also check R rate to measure the accuracy of your shots. R rate is a number that comes from adding up all the distances measured from center of the target. So if you have 10 shots all scattered around the target by two centimeters it may give you an R 20. The smaller the number the better the setup is.

On the other hand I shoot from 50mm to 127mm fork widths. My fav now is 104mm. Next year it may be different. Previous year it was 90mm.

I think it is not a decision, it is more about experiencing what works. 100mm and 4" are popular for a reason.


----------



## Cathal

Tremoside said:


> Hi Cathal,
> 
> I was reading the forums, old threads, books and magazines about slingshots. If something was unclear I was banding up a frame or carved it to see how it works for me. It requires some patience, but works every time.
> 
> Those variables will always flip theory, the pouch you use, the release, the straight thumb, the off center hole, the rust you don't see yet on the steel ball, the elbow position, the jerking movement upon release, if you push your thumb into your anchor, if the frame is not perpendicular.
> 
> There is not enough time and thread to explain everything, but a hint may give a heads up for the start.
> 
> Just put things in practice.
> Regards,
> Mark


Thanks Tremoside/Mark.....yes....there are so many variables that have to come together perfectly for the bulls eye shot to happen every time......you explained it well sir...
May I ask you......
How do I know when my fork width is wrong for ME??????
Thanks
[/quote]

According to your shooting logbook you will recognize that frame has a high miss rate. You can also check R rate to measure the accuracy of your shots. R rate is a number that comes from adding up all the distances measured from center of the target. So if you have 10 shots all scattered around the target by two centimeters it may give you an R 20. The smaller the number the better the setup is.

On the other hand I shoot from 50mm to 127mm fork widths. My fav now is 104mm. Next year it may be different. Previous year it was 90mm.

I think it is not a decision, it is more about experiencing what works. 100mm and 4" are popular for a reason.[/quote

Thanks for that Tremoside/Mark
That's very interesting indeed!!!!!....so there is a mathematical system (although fluid as you explain) which can give us a kinda shortcut to zoom in on what fork width suits us at a given time...
I really appreciate you sharing your expertise with US NEWBIES.....may I ask you a final question???
I have an R20 rating (going on your calculations)TTF using a 100 mm fork width /Hatchcock sniper SMALL......what MAY help me to improve???
Thank you very much Sir....


----------



## Cathal

Grandpa Grumpy said:


> "THE FORKS DONT EXTEND TOO FAR ABOVE YOUR HAND"....is that because of the recoil reduction????
> Shooters tend to grip close to the fork tip to reduce strain on the wrist, especially when using stronger bands.
> I think when you ask about recoil you are talking about follow through or "flip". The goal is to intentionally flip to gain speed or help the ammo clear the forks or no flip at all. My personal preference is to avoid flipping. Each shooter has to decide for himself.


Thanks Grandpa Grumpy
Yes you are right....I was referring to " follow through"/ flip.....from my little experience flip throws my shot off.......would it be true that a fork set just "sitting"on the top of the grip would really reduce the flip effect????


----------



## Tremoside

If your goal is to tighten your group with a 100mm TTF frame face anchor you may find ideas to work on in my video. There are plenty of concepts in the video, so you definitely do not need to use everything. It is more of a tabloid of nuances.

Have a good day mate!


----------



## Trap1

Cathal said:


> Trap1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
> All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting this Cathal !
> 
> 
> 
> Ibojoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've learned a bit just on the fork width, mentioned by Jazz regarding the work of Bill Hays & Ibojoe, above.
> 
> Previously I had thought wide forks = better grip for big hands, arms & men. And had not even considered elongation & power here.
> 
> From my brief learning trials so far with a couple different slings I've worked out that for OTT & TTF narrow forks in both are giving me the better reference & anchor points & hence being more accurate than I was a couple of weeks back. (I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet.) I'm not discounting a wider forked TTF yet. Interesting & great fun!
> 
> Technical sling stuff put in layman's terms by experienced shooters is real good for us numpties so please keep it coming!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> TRAP1
> By your post I can tell you're far ahead of me in this pursuit.....I've just got 1 catty and am trying (hopelessly maybe) to perfect all the attributes that go with this art.....is it a case of "finding "the right fork to settle on (like IBOJOE below mentions)....?????
> 
> ......
> 
> 
> Ibojoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Cathal.. Not necessarily! I have a need to make a few sling for friends & it's all trial & error for me & my friends just now!

Your Irish mate 'Chris' on youtube..search "Catapult Carnage". Like Bill Hays, he's right down to earth with his vid's on target shooting & personally I think both these men are worth studying for accuracy..many tips to be had here & then it's down to practice.

I think having just one sling would be of more benefit as I think it takes time to understand just what each tweak you make does. I'm using 3 just now & each have different ref & anchor points...this jumping about is probably not a good thing for me but I'm learning.

I'm still using the natural I made as I noo ken it's a bit wide at the forks for my short draw length (wearing glasses & a shoulder lock prevents me from anchoring anywhere near my eye) but I think learning's still in the persevering with it!


----------



## bigdh2000

Several things...

First, frequently the question has already been answered numerous times in great detail and those of us that have been around a while are tired of saying the same thing over and over again. As one old timer once put it, the search function is your friend, please use it. He got so tired of answering the same questions that he left the forum.

Second, as CJW indicated, so much related to slingshots is personal preference. The shooting system in a gun is entirely self-contained - point and shoot. If you point it the same way every time, it will hit the same spot every time. When it comes to slingshots, that is not the case. Your body (stature, limb length, eye position, muscle strength, etc.) is part of the shooting system. It takes thousands of rounds to teach your body to find the same stance and release to achieve repeat accuracy. Every single stance and release is different, just like a fingerprint. No two people are alike. My wingspan is over six feet. What I shoot will not be what someone with a wingspan of five feet would shoot. To put it in other terms, it makes no sense to put a 0.45 barrel on a 0.22 handgun. Your arms are the barrel and your fingers the firing mechanism - completely different for every single person and sometimes even different daily or every shot on the same person.

Last, one just learns to walk by watching others and testing things out. Slingshots are the same way. Do not overthink them. Watch the thousands of videos out there and then try some of them until you find what works for you. Even if someone tells you why, their reason may not be the same as yours. As Tremo/Mark and several others have pointed out, experiment. That is half the fun and part of the journey.


----------



## Grandpa Grumpy

Cathal said:


> Grandpa Grumpy said:
> 
> 
> 
> "THE FORKS DONT EXTEND TOO FAR ABOVE YOUR HAND"....is that because of the recoil reduction????
> Shooters tend to grip close to the fork tip to reduce strain on the wrist, especially when using stronger bands.
> I think when you ask about recoil you are talking about follow through or "flip". The goal is to intentionally flip to gain speed or help the ammo clear the forks or no flip at all. My personal preference is to avoid flipping. Each shooter has to decide for himself.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Grandpa Grumpy
> Yes you are right....I was referring to " follow through"/ flip.....from my little experience flip throws my shot off.......would it be true that a fork set just "sitting"on the top of the grip would really reduce the flip effect????
Click to expand...

I think lower fork tips help reduce any un-intentional flip. New shooters fear hitting their hands and tend to prefer higher fork tips. This puts a lot of strain on the wrist. I like to hold right below the ties and hold the slingshot still for a second after relase to reduce flip. The holding hand will always move a little after release. I think it takes longer to learn to be accurate with an intentional flip at release and is not worth the few extra fps gained.


----------



## Cathal

Tremoside said:


> If your goal is to tighten your group with a 100mm TTF frame face anchor you may find ideas to work on in my video. There are plenty of concepts in the video, so you definitely do not need to use everything. It is more of a tabloid of nuances.
> 
> Have a good day mate!


Tremoside/Mark......thank you so much for drawing my attention to your YouTube channel.....the one on here is such an excellent tutorial.....you're very kind and patient AS ARE ALL the experts answering the same boring newbie questions over and over again....I thank YOU ALL


----------



## ForkLess

High Forks high Strain. Low forks people get jumpy. Jumpy jerky movement could catch your hand. Low forks no forks offer the best grip.


----------



## Cathal

Trap1 said:


> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Trap1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi folks.....the topic title show draw all the experts in here outta curiosity(I hope).....maybe a lotta newbies would agree with me when I say that the comments from the experts would be much more appreciated if a WHY was added to the answer.......RATHER than just "I prefer"/ "this works better".....an example.....rather than just stating that a certain fork width is better than another....tell us WHY is a particular fork width better than another.......rather than just telling us that a 90 degree pouch twist works well to redirect the shot left/right......tell us...WHY is a 90degree twist on the pouch a good idea....
> All us newbies are anxious to improve....and the experts think the same no sought....so hoping to have those 2 particular questions addressed......thanks guys...
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for posting this Cathal !
> 
> 
> Ibojoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I've learned a bit just on the fork width, mentioned by Jazz regarding the work of Bill Hays & Ibojoe, above.
> 
> Previously I had thought wide forks = better grip for big hands, arms & men. And had not even considered elongation & power here.
> 
> From my brief learning trials so far with a couple different slings I've worked out that for OTT & TTF narrow forks in both are giving me the better reference & anchor points & hence being more accurate than I was a couple of weeks back. (I'm nowhere near where I want to be yet.) I'm not discounting a wider forked TTF yet. Interesting & great fun!
> 
> Technical sling stuff put in layman's terms by experienced shooters is real good for us numpties so please keep it coming!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> TRAP1
> By your post I can tell you're far ahead of me in this pursuit.....I've just got 1 catty and am trying (hopelessly maybe) to perfect all the attributes that go with this art.....is it a case of "finding "the right fork to settle on (like IBOJOE below mentions)....?????
> ......
> 
> 
> Ibojoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm no expert. It took a long time for me to settle on 3 1/4" tip to tip. At full draw when the band touches my cheek, the tip of the fork is on the target. So most all my frames are small like the champ, plinker, and parasite.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Cathal.. Not necessarily! I have a need to make a few sling for friends & it's all trial & error for me & my friends just now!
> Your Irish mate 'Chris' on youtube..search "Catapult Carnage". Like Bill Hays, he's right down to earth with his vid's on target shooting & personally I think both these men are worth studying for accuracy..many tips to be had here & then it's down to practice.
> I think having just one sling would be of more benefit as I think it takes time to understand just what each tweak you make does. I'm using 3 just now & each have different ref & anchor points...this jumping about is probably not a good thing for me but I'm learning.
> I'm still using the natural I made as I noo ken it's a bit wide at the forks for my short draw length (wearing glasses & a shoulder lock prevents me from anchoring anywhere near my eye) but I think learning's still in the persevering with it!
Click to expand...

Trap1....yes...it seems keeping a journal of every tweek that's made is important....I have a book ordered(it was mentioned in another post on here) on slingshotting which I'm sure will be of great help......Tremoside (Mark....a great guy)posted a YouTube tutorial on here....it's fantastic...


----------



## Cathal

ForkLess said:


> High Forks high Strain. Low forks people get jumpy. Jumpy jerky movement could catch your hand. Low forks no forks offer the best grip.


ForkLess......that's just about sums up a lot with an economy of words......thank you


----------



## Cathal

bigdh2000 said:


> Several things...
> 
> First, frequently the question has already been answered numerous times in great detail and those of us that have been around a while are tired of saying the same thing over and over again. As one old timer once put it, the search function is your friend, please use it. He got so tired of answering the same questions that he left the forum.
> 
> Second, as CJW indicated, so much related to slingshots is personal preference. The shooting system in a gun is entirely self-contained - point and shoot. If you point it the same way every time, it will hit the same spot every time. When it comes to slingshots, that is not the case. Your body (stature, limb length, eye position, muscle strength, etc.) is part of the shooting system. It takes thousands of rounds to teach your body to find the same stance and release to achieve repeat accuracy. Every single stance and release is different, just like a fingerprint. No two people are alike. My wingspan is over six feet. What I shoot will not be what someone with a wingspan of five feet would shoot. To put it in other terms, it makes no sense to put a 0.45 barrel on a 0.22 handgun. Your arms are the barrel and your fingers the firing mechanism - completely different for every single person and sometimes even different daily or every shot on the same person.
> 
> Last, one just learns to walk by watching others and testing things out. Slingshots are the same way. Do not overthink them. Watch the thousands of videos out there and then try some of them until you find what works for you. Even if someone tells you why, their reason may not be the same as yours. As Tremo/Mark and several others have pointed out, experiment. That is half the fun and part of the journey.


Thanks for that great contribution bigdh2000.....and yes I'm sure all the great guys on here are tired answering the same newbie questions....probably the reason for the same questions been fired off all the time is because as every one shoots differently....everyone thinks their solution has to be different/unique to them too...... IMO.....


----------



## Trap1

Tremoside said:


> If your goal is to tighten your group with a 100mm TTF frame face anchor you may find ideas to work on in my video. There are plenty of concepts in the video, so you definitely do not need to use everything. It is more of a tabloid of nuances.
> 
> Have a good day mate!


Thanks! Mark. Enjoyed your video.. there's definitely some things there for us all!


----------



## Cathal

Trap1 said:


> Tremoside said:
> 
> 
> 
> If your goal is to tighten your group with a 100mm TTF frame face anchor you may find ideas to work on in my video. There are plenty of concepts in the video, so you definitely do not need to use everything. It is more of a tabloid of nuances.
> 
> Have a good day mate!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks! Mark. Enjoyed your video.. there's definitely some things there for us all!
Click to expand...

A SUPER VIDEO MARK.....THANKS FOR TAKING THE TIME


----------



## Pebble Shooter

The famous "why" question apparently came up once in the end of year exams for a philosophy class at some university. While the majority of the students were eagerly writing endless pages (of gibberish) in the hope of earning their pass mark, one student simply wrote another question in two short words: why not? :hmm: . Well, he passed the exam with flying colors.

To me, slingshots are a bit like going shopping for a new pair of shoes, where we will most certainly all agree that the crucial question at the end of the list of countless criteria, such as design, materials, workmanship, and durability, will invariably be: do they fit, and are they comfortable to wear? Not an easy task when your hard earned cash is involved. As others have pointed out above, what works for one person with regard to the multiple issues that ultimately converge into that perfect pouch release and hitting the target repeatedly, may not necessarily be the recipe of success for someone else.

Clearly, there are certain purely technical issues that will determine how well a given slingshot performs, but ultimately this will depend on the person standing behind the slingshot being used (like in archery, for that matter). Some people intuitively acquire the essential skills fairly quickly, are able to shoot almost any type of slingshot accurately, whereas others permanently struggle just to hit a barn door, and are unable to streamline the essential techniques to turn their slingshot into a viable shooting tool. People are very different indeed.

My personal approach was to learn how to make safely designed and ergonomic slingshots, bands, pouches and finding a happy compromise in terms of band sets and the steel ammo I mostly use to achieve the tight groups at the 10 yard competition distance. Reading up about what others have already tried, and experimenting was a big part of this non-scientific adventure, but eventually I settled for what suits my specific requirements. The rest is regular hands-on experience, learning by doing, practice makes perfect, right? This really applies to so many things in daily life.

I have found that a slingshot design available on the market either fits your hand like a glove and will see significant use, or it ends up with all the other dusty clutter at the back of a drawer never to be used again - regardless of how well it is made. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a perfect slingshot, and the explanations of why something works for slingshot enthusiast but not another often boils down to personal preferences. There is never just one way of doing something, and no old scroll with stringent rules of how to make and shoot slingshots engraved in stone. <_<

You thus need to find what works best for you, based on your specific shooting requirements and on your personal interpretation of the preferences and varying explanations from other slingshot shooters out there.

Eventually, you will obtain your own personal answer as to "why". Shoot & have fun! That is really what it is all about. B)


----------



## dogcatchersito

There is no real way to answer why. Most of this is preference, sometimes adjustments are made due to limitations on range of motion, sight, hands injuries...etc. the best answer is do what your body is telling you, yet keep the main lessons like straight bands, anchor points, reference point.

Fork width is another can of worms. I prefer a smaller fork gap mostly because the smaller the gap. The more I can judge where the shoot will hit. Not much variation when your gap is smaller. I guess you can refer to it as the picture box of your aiming.

My two cents hopefully some of my rant is helpful.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## Cathal

Pebble Shooter said:


> The famous "why" question apparently came up once in the end of year exams for a philosophy class at some university. While the majority of the students were eagerly writing endless pages (of gibberish) in the hope of earning their pass mark, one student simply wrote another question in two short words: why not? :hmm: . Well, he passed the exam with flying colors.
> 
> To me, slingshots are a bit like going shopping for a new pair of shoes, where we will most certainly all agree that the crucial question at the end of the list of countless criteria, such as design, materials, workmanship, and durability, will invariably be: do they fit, and are they comfortable to wear? Not an easy task when your hard earned cash is involved. As others have pointed out above, what works for one person with regard to the multiple issues that ultimately converge into that perfect pouch release and hitting the target repeatedly, may not necessarily be the recipe of success for someone else.
> 
> Clearly, there are certain purely technical issues that will determine how well a given slingshot performs, but ultimately this will depend on the person standing behind the slingshot being used (like in archery, for that matter). Some people intuitively acquire the essential skills fairly quickly, are able to shoot almost any type of slingshot accurately, whereas others permanently struggle just to hit a barn door, and are unable to streamline the essential techniques to turn their slingshot into a viable shooting tool. People are very different indeed.
> 
> My personal approach was to learn how to make safely designed and ergonomic slingshots, bands, pouches and finding a happy compromise in terms of band sets and the steel ammo I mostly use to achieve the tight groups at the 10 yard competition distance. Reading up about what others have already tried, and experimenting was a big part of this non-scientific adventure, but eventually I settled for what suits my specific requirements. The rest is regular hands-on experience, learning by doing, practice makes perfect, right? This really applies to so many things in daily life.
> 
> I have found that a slingshot design available on the market either fits your hand like a glove and will see significant use, or it ends up with all the other dusty clutter at the back of a drawer never to be used again - regardless of how well it is made. Ultimately, there is no such thing as a perfect slingshot, and the explanations of why something works for slingshot enthusiast but not another often boils down to personal preferences. There is never just one way of doing something, and no old scroll with stringent rules of how to make and shoot slingshots engraved in stone. <_<
> 
> You thus need to find what works best for you, based on your specific shooting requirements and on your personal interpretation of the preferences and varying explanations from other slingshot shooters out there.
> 
> Eventually, you will obtain your own personal answer as to "why". Shoot & have fun! That is really what it is all about. B)


Pebble Shooter.......if I was that philosophy teacher I guess I'd have to consider awarding you 100% for the effort and time put in..... BUT...(there always is isn't there?)I'm about to turn your philosophy answer upside down here.........."WHY NOT " stick with the fork width that DOESN'T suit you..."WHY" bother to change????.....
My question contained therein is: WHAT are the indicators that a fork width is NOT suitable for me (TTF)?????
Thanks for all your input and good advice....


----------



## Cathal

dogcatchersito said:


> There is no real way to answer why. Most of this is preference, sometimes adjustments are made due to limitations on range of motion, sight, hands injuries...etc. the best answer is do what your body is telling you, yet keep the main lessons like straight bands, anchor points, reference point.
> Fork width is another can of worms. I prefer a smaller fork gap mostly because the smaller the gap. The more I can judge where the shoot will hit. Not much variation when your gap is smaller. I guess you can refer to it as the picture box of your aiming.
> My two cents hopefully some of my rant is helpful.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Dogcatchersito.....now that's very useful info and thank u very much for it.....I get all that about band alignment anchor point ref point....BUT the fork width bizz is interesting ....but I don't pretend to fully understand it....would you expand that topic for me please?
I shoot the Hatchcock sniper small ....gangsta style / right hand hold ...fork width 4"/TTF.....I'm always hitting left at 10 mtrs....
Is it possible that this slingshot does NOT suit me for whatever reason?? (I don't want to be blaming the arrows here)and we know Bill Hays is so highly respected by everyone in the slingshot world...
Thanks for your time sir!!!!!


----------



## dogcatchersito

Cathal said:


> dogcatchersito said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no real way to answer why. Most of this is preference, sometimes adjustments are made due to limitations on range of motion, sight, hands injuries...etc. the best answer is do what your body is telling you, yet keep the main lessons like straight bands, anchor points, reference point.
> Fork width is another can of worms. I prefer a smaller fork gap mostly because the smaller the gap. The more I can judge where the shoot will hit. Not much variation when your gap is smaller. I guess you can refer to it as the picture box of your aiming.
> My two cents hopefully some of my rant is helpful.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Dogcatchersito.....now that's very useful info and thank u very much for it.....I get all that about band alignment anchor point ref point....BUT the fork width bizz is interesting ....but I don't pretend to fully understand it....would you expand that topic for me please?
> I shoot the Hatchcock sniper small ....gangsta style / right hand hold ...fork width 4"/TTF.....I'm always hitting left at 10 mtrs....
> Is it possible that this slingshot does NOT suit me for whatever reason?? (I don't want to be blaming the arrows here)and we know Bill Hays is so highly respected by everyone in the slingshot world...
> Thanks for your time sir!!!!!
Click to expand...

I shall try, my fork width is 3 inches total. Now for the sake of example you are a LHH like myself and you are shooting gangsta. Let's pretend we are doing the same thing here. If your shoots are going to the left of where you're aiming this can be one of three things.

The first thing that this could be is, your left hand is working a little harder. Meaning that your fork tips are moving forward a bit. Forcing your shoot to go more left.

Second thing that it might be is your ammo gripping hand, is moving to the right a little bit. While your slingshot holding hands is staying still. This will cause your shot to go towards the left as well.

Or you could be facing the last thing that it might be and that is your anchor point may not be right for how you are shooting. I do a short draw so my anchor point is the crease of my mouth where my cheek meets. I can see down the bands in this position and the bands look like one line. Let me also add that eye dominance will play havoc here. So I have always shot with both eyes open.

Now there are a few other factors that will take some tweaking for you. Band length, pouch size. Band length is important in case you have to much band on the catty and ammo doesn't fly true due to slack from the bands. Pouch size because it will force some drag if it is too big. A lot of these little things will add up to inaccurate shooting. Hopefully this is of some use to you.

As for how all that translates into smaller picture window being a good thing. You can only move the bands a little bit up or down. Too much either up or down cause a fork hit. You can only move the ammo so far right because you will hit your hand. Since your hand will be choked up on the handle so much. Making how much you can do in that picture window limited enough to foresee where your shots will be hitting. Making a smaller window a good thing in my book.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Cathal

dogcatchersito said:


> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dogcatchersito said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no real way to answer why. Most of this is preference, sometimes adjustments are made due to limitations on range of motion, sight, hands injuries...etc. the best answer is do what your body is telling you, yet keep the main lessons like straight bands, anchor points, reference point.
> Fork width is another can of worms. I prefer a smaller fork gap mostly because the smaller the gap. The more I can judge where the shoot will hit. Not much variation when your gap is smaller. I guess you can refer to it as the picture box of your aiming.
> My two cents hopefully some of my rant is helpful.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Dogcatchersito.....now that's very useful info and thank u very much for it.....I get all that about band alignment anchor point ref point....BUT the fork width bizz is interesting ....but I don't pretend to fully understand it....would you expand that topic for me please?
> I shoot the Hatchcock sniper small ....gangsta style / right hand hold ...fork width 4"/TTF.....I'm always hitting left at 10 mtrs....
> Is it possible that this slingshot does NOT suit me for whatever reason?? (I don't want to be blaming the arrows here)and we know Bill Hays is so highly respected by everyone in the slingshot world...
> Thanks for your time sir!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I shall try, my fork width is 3 inches total. Now for the sake of example you are a LHH like myself and you are shooting gangsta. Let's pretend we are doing the same thing here. If your shoots are going to the left of where you're aiming this can be one of three things.
> The first thing that this could be is, your left hand is working a little harder. Meaning that your fork tips are moving forward a bit. Forcing your shoot to go more left.
> Second thing that it might be is your ammo gripping hand, is moving to the right a little bit. While your slingshot holding hands is staying still. This will cause your shot to go towards the left as well.
> Or you could be facing the last thing that it might be and that is your anchor point may not be right for how you are shooting. I do a short draw so my anchor point is the crease of my mouth where my cheek meets. I can see down the bands in this position and the bands look like one line. Let me also add that eye dominance will play havoc here. So I have always shot with both eyes open.
> Now there are a few other factors that will take some tweaking for you. Band length, pouch size. Band length is important in case you have to much band on the catty and ammo doesn't fly true due to slack from the bands. Pouch size because it will force some drag if it is too big. A lot of these little things will add up to inaccurate shooting. Hopefully this is of some use to you.
> As for how all that translates into smaller picture window being a good thing. You can only move the bands a little bit up or down. Too much either up or down cause a fork hit. You can only move the ammo so far right because you will hit your hand. Since your hand will be choked up on the handle so much. Making how much you can do in that picture window limited enough to foresee where your shots will be hitting. Making a smaller window a good thing in my book.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Dogcatchersito......that's about the best tuition /advice /direction I've got .......thank you sooooo much for spending your valuable time putting that together for me.....I'm sure as an experienced shooter that you are..... you must be tired answering the same kinda questions over and over again......some outstanding flags you raised for me (personally)....1) too much band!!!!! YES!!!! thinking about it now....that is definitely an issue that needs addressing...2)....keeping the hold hand steady is another challenge (which you gave a possible solution to....a slingshot where "the hand is choking the forks")....which I understand as VERY LOW FORKS???? almost sitting on the hand??
3) and of course the fork width.....it's kinda simple after you pointed it out to me....the narrower the fork width...the smaller the window as to where the shot can go......(any slingshot I should have a look at that fits the bill....preferably with clips...too much room for error with tie ons.... IMO
That was a TOP class postand I am very grateful to you.....now to put it in to action....


----------



## dogcatchersito

Cathal said:


> dogcatchersito said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dogcatchersito said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no real way to answer why. Most of this is preference, sometimes adjustments are made due to limitations on range of motion, sight, hands injuries...etc. the best answer is do what your body is telling you, yet keep the main lessons like straight bands, anchor points, reference point.
> Fork width is another can of worms. I prefer a smaller fork gap mostly because the smaller the gap. The more I can judge where the shoot will hit. Not much variation when your gap is smaller. I guess you can refer to it as the picture box of your aiming.
> My two cents hopefully some of my rant is helpful.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Dogcatchersito.....now that's very useful info and thank u very much for it.....I get all that about band alignment anchor point ref point....BUT the fork width bizz is interesting ....but I don't pretend to fully understand it....would you expand that topic for me please?
> I shoot the Hatchcock sniper small ....gangsta style / right hand hold ...fork width 4"/TTF.....I'm always hitting left at 10 mtrs....
> Is it possible that this slingshot does NOT suit me for whatever reason?? (I don't want to be blaming the arrows here)and we know Bill Hays is so highly respected by everyone in the slingshot world...
> Thanks for your time sir!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I shall try, my fork width is 3 inches total. Now for the sake of example you are a LHH like myself and you are shooting gangsta. Let's pretend we are doing the same thing here. If your shoots are going to the left of where you're aiming this can be one of three things.
> The first thing that this could be is, your left hand is working a little harder. Meaning that your fork tips are moving forward a bit. Forcing your shoot to go more left.
> Second thing that it might be is your ammo gripping hand, is moving to the right a little bit. While your slingshot holding hands is staying still. This will cause your shot to go towards the left as well.
> Or you could be facing the last thing that it might be and that is your anchor point may not be right for how you are shooting. I do a short draw so my anchor point is the crease of my mouth where my cheek meets. I can see down the bands in this position and the bands look like one line. Let me also add that eye dominance will play havoc here. So I have always shot with both eyes open.
> Now there are a few other factors that will take some tweaking for you. Band length, pouch size. Band length is important in case you have to much band on the catty and ammo doesn't fly true due to slack from the bands. Pouch size because it will force some drag if it is too big. A lot of these little things will add up to inaccurate shooting. Hopefully this is of some use to you.
> As for how all that translates into smaller picture window being a good thing. You can only move the bands a little bit up or down. Too much either up or down cause a fork hit. You can only move the ammo so far right because you will hit your hand. Since your hand will be choked up on the handle so much. Making how much you can do in that picture window limited enough to foresee where your shots will be hitting. Making a smaller window a good thing in my book.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dogcatchersito......that's about the best tuition /advice /direction I've got .......thank you sooooo much for spending your valuable time putting that together for me.....I'm sure as an experienced shooter that you are..... you must be tired answering the same kinda questions over and over again......some outstanding flags you raised for me (personally)....1) too much band!!!!! YES!!!! thinking about it now....that is definitely an issue that needs addressing...2)....keeping the hold hand steady is another challenge (which you gave a possible solution to....a slingshot where "the hand is choking the forks")....which I understand as VERY LOW FORKS???? almost sitting on the hand??
> 3) and of course the fork width.....it's kinda simple after you pointed it out to me....the narrower the fork width...the smaller the window as to where the shot can go......(any slingshot I should have a look at that fits the bill....preferably with clips...too much room for error with tie ons.... IMO
> That was a TOP class postand I am very grateful to you.....now to put it in to action....
Click to expand...

I'm never tired of sharing some of my knowledge on this slingshot forum. This is my hobby just talking about it is what makes me happy. With the smaller picture window when there is a pro, there is a con like "fork hits". If you are still getting into your aiming and everything I would recommend the scout XT (if you have big hands) or Scout LT (for smaller hands). The fork width is about what you are shooting now though. I personally just shoot a natural that I cut down the forks on but the handle was plenty chunky for a good grip.

I was also thinking about the fact you shoot TTF. So your reference point for where you are putting the shots may take some finding. Easiest way to do that is white piece of paper with a black spot for a bulls eye. Then just like fighting in a scope adjust your reference to get dead center.

To get the best of both worlds adjust your clips to shoot OTT you may find the aiming may be a little easier. Never hurts to try an I right?

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


----------



## Cathal

dogcatchersito said:


> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dogcatchersito said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cathal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> dogcatchersito said:
> 
> 
> 
> There is no real way to answer why. Most of this is preference, sometimes adjustments are made due to limitations on range of motion, sight, hands injuries...etc. the best answer is do what your body is telling you, yet keep the main lessons like straight bands, anchor points, reference point.
> Fork width is another can of worms. I prefer a smaller fork gap mostly because the smaller the gap. The more I can judge where the shoot will hit. Not much variation when your gap is smaller. I guess you can refer to it as the picture box of your aiming.
> My two cents hopefully some of my rant is helpful.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
> 
> 
> 
> Dogcatchersito.....now that's very useful info and thank u very much for it.....I get all that about band alignment anchor point ref point....BUT the fork width bizz is interesting ....but I don't pretend to fully understand it....would you expand that topic for me please?
> I shoot the Hatchcock sniper small ....gangsta style / right hand hold ...fork width 4"/TTF.....I'm always hitting left at 10 mtrs....
> Is it possible that this slingshot does NOT suit me for whatever reason?? (I don't want to be blaming the arrows here)and we know Bill Hays is so highly respected by everyone in the slingshot world...
> Thanks for your time sir!!!!!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I shall try, my fork width is 3 inches total. Now for the sake of example you are a LHH like myself and you are shooting gangsta. Let's pretend we are doing the same thing here. If your shoots are going to the left of where you're aiming this can be one of three things.
> The first thing that this could be is, your left hand is working a little harder. Meaning that your fork tips are moving forward a bit. Forcing your shoot to go more left.
> Second thing that it might be is your ammo gripping hand, is moving to the right a little bit. While your slingshot holding hands is staying still. This will cause your shot to go towards the left as well.
> Or you could be facing the last thing that it might be and that is your anchor point may not be right for how you are shooting. I do a short draw so my anchor point is the crease of my mouth where my cheek meets. I can see down the bands in this position and the bands look like one line. Let me also add that eye dominance will play havoc here. So I have always shot with both eyes open.
> Now there are a few other factors that will take some tweaking for you. Band length, pouch size. Band length is important in case you have to much band on the catty and ammo doesn't fly true due to slack from the bands. Pouch size because it will force some drag if it is too big. A lot of these little things will add up to inaccurate shooting. Hopefully this is of some use to you.
> As for how all that translates into smaller picture window being a good thing. You can only move the bands a little bit up or down. Too much either up or down cause a fork hit. You can only move the ammo so far right because you will hit your hand. Since your hand will be choked up on the handle so much. Making how much you can do in that picture window limited enough to foresee where your shots will be hitting. Making a smaller window a good thing in my book.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Dogcatchersito......that's about the best tuition /advice /direction I've got .......thank you sooooo much for spending your valuable time putting that together for me.....I'm sure as an experienced shooter that you are..... you must be tired answering the same kinda questions over and over again......some outstanding flags you raised for me (personally)....1) too much band!!!!! YES!!!! thinking about it now....that is definitely an issue that needs addressing...2)....keeping the hold hand steady is another challenge (which you gave a possible solution to....a slingshot where "the hand is choking the forks")....which I understand as VERY LOW FORKS???? almost sitting on the hand??
> 3) and of course the fork width.....it's kinda simple after you pointed it out to me....the narrower the fork width...the smaller the window as to where the shot can go......(any slingshot I should have a look at that fits the bill....preferably with clips...too much room for error with tie ons.... IMO
> That was a TOP class postand I am very grateful to you.....now to put it in to action....
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I'm never tired of sharing some of my knowledge on this slingshot forum. This is my hobby just talking about it is what makes me happy. With the smaller picture window when there is a pro, there is a con like "fork hits". If you are still getting into your aiming and everything I would recommend the scout XT (if you have big hands) or Scout LT (for smaller hands). The fork width is about what you are shooting now though. I personally just shoot a natural that I cut down the forks on but the handle was plenty chunky for a good grip.
> I was also thinking about the fact you shoot TTF. So your reference point for where you are putting the shots may take some finding. Easiest way to do that is white piece of paper with a black spot for a bulls eye. Then just like fighting in a scope adjust your reference to get dead center.
> To get the best of both worlds adjust your clips to shoot OTT you may find the aiming may be a little easier. Never hurts to try an I right?
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

Dogcatchersito.....thanks for that..I followed your earlier advice and I've pulled my grouping a lot tighter...(see pic)...this is at 10 mtrs (cross is 2.5"x2.5").....there were other shots that went awol.....so I won't show those today..LOL....
Yes I'd like to try OTT.....but the fork posts seem too narrow to accommodate the band (see pic).....it's also wrap and tuck (which I find as an inexperienced) and can be tricky to execute with perfect accuracy....my second purchase will be a clip model for sure.....


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## Tag

Great shooting Cathal


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## dogcatchersito

Bro that looks good!!!!! Glad that advice was able to yield some great results. You will be taking game in no time brotha.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


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## Cathal

dogcatchersito said:


> Bro that looks good!!!!! Glad that advice was able to yield some great results. You will be taking game in no time brotha.
> Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk


Dogcatchersito.......I appreciate the positivity.....I get lucky sometimes I guess......it's a challenging skill for sure......but enjoyable......and thanks for the advice......yes maybe go elephant hunting before long...LOL....


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## Cathal

Tag said:


> Great shooting Cathal


Thanks TAG.......I appreciate the comment......I've received great advice on this forum......hopefully I can become consistent over time


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## Trap1

Meant to post this hurried 30 shot corrugated target yesterday in the other thread Cathal! The circle is 4" & the bullseye 1.75"dia. Found the brown/black combination a bit hard on the eye but can't complain after some wayward shots. Put white paper & light under to show better in pic..




















The last pic shows a wee rubber band which greatly aids flat band attachment to forks. Get a short piece o string 6" or so hold it so that one end is about an inch above your thumb and forefinger. Pop the wee rubber band over the string end. Attach the band & string to your fork where you normally wrap & tuck. I do a figure of 8 double here on the wee rubber band. Grab both ends o the string pull & insert your flat band. It's noo easy tae position your band...perform yet normal w & t over the wee bad! Phew! A simple thing turntoot long-winded to explain!


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## Cathal

Trap1......that's respectable shooting there bud......as you said the light is an issue.....and the target colour is too......
The wrap and tuck shortcut is a neat idea.........there's also a type of rubber band they use for dressing horses tails which someone said is a great job too as they're very strong


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## Tag

I shoot by holding the pouch just in front of the ammo holding it between my index and my middle finger. I fought RTS and really dangerous fork hits and one “I remember it like it just happened” hit the web of skin between my thumb and index finger” MJ was a witness and I have the scar to prove it. I went home and watched Bill Hays “how to shoot videos” As for the why part for my style of shooting. If you close your fist, the middle finger and your index finger come together fairly even. The thumb is free to move, which in my case rolls on the ammo. I hold the pouch just in front of the ammo pressing it back into the fantastic SuperShure pouch. When I focus on the target, raise the slingshot up and release the ammo unconsciously. (Safely) I’ve been told I’m losing speed by shooting this way, and that’s fine as long as I hit the target. (At least once in awhile) Slingshot shooting has been very good to me. I’ve met and continue to meet amazing people, my self confidence has skyrocketed (also made me more humble than ever)


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## Cathal

Tag said:


> I shoot by holding the pouch just in front of the ammo holding it between my index and my middle finger. I fought RTS and really dangerous fork hits and one "I remember it like it just happened" hit the web of skin between my thumb and index finger" MJ was a witness and I have the scar to prove it. I went home and watched Bill Hays "how to shoot videos" As for the why part for my style of shooting. If you close your fist, the middle finger and your index finger come together fairly even. The thumb is free to move, which in my case rolls on the ammo. I hold the pouch just in front of the ammo pressing it back into the fantastic SuperShure pouch. When I focus on the target, raise the slingshot up and release the ammo unconsciously. (Safely) I've been told I'm losing speed by shooting this way, and that's fine as long as I hit the target. (At least once in awhile) Slingshot shooting has been very good to me. I've met and continue to meet amazing people, my self confidence has skyrocketed (also made me more humble than ever)


TAG....thanks for that surprise post......and very timely it is too...would you ever be sooooo kind as to post a close up pic of that pouch hold you mentioned?????
It may do me some good to see and practice that style as I'm kinda stuck with shotgun patterns and losing heart at the hope of improving....THANKS IN ADVANCE......


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## Tag

. Hope this helps


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## Cathal

Tag said:


> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> image.jpg. Hope this helps


TAG...... thank you very much for the pics........very innovative.........I'm goin give it a shot (pardon the pun)......have a great weekend...


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## SLING-N-SHOT

Tag, I've also been doing a bit of shooting with this same grip.

It is very secure for me, haven't noticed any accuracy degradation ( can't degrade from none, lol ) and was wondering if it was causing the speed bump you get when ammo is behind the joint instead of pinched on top.
IMHO, it feels to me, like as you release pressure on the grip, the bands just pull the ammo through your fingers, and kind of self centers the release ?
Thoughts ?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Tag

That's a good point, I will try and explain the release Bill Hays shows in his video. I place my thumb against the middle joint of my index finger. I grab the front of a loaded pouch and close my fingers. This allows me to put as much pressure as needed my depending on what size tubes I'm shooting. My thoughts are I can put as much pressure on the pouch as needed, using my thumb pressed against my index finger, using my pinkie, ring and middle finger pressing on the opposite side. I'm definitely in an unorthodox shooting style. I stare at the target, pull up and place my thumb against my cheek and hope for the best My thoughts are my thumb fools the ammo. I also feel my hand closes the same every time, where my thumb, shooting the more popular way can be off one way or another. I really like your idea on the bump affect. I shoot my PFS the same way, and 99.9% never have a fork hit. The one drawback for me is I can't shoot butterfly. But at my age, I shouldn't have any ammo behind my head.


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## Tag

When this miserable heat cools down, and I can have some free time I will make a video. Free time isn't looking good for now. I at least get to read and post on the Forum


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