# Morons On Parade!



## Lacumo (Aug 18, 2013)

This is NOT what we need in the Police State of New York! With our anti-gun, anti-weapon of any kind, anti-Second Amendment Rights, anti-Bill of Rights Emperor Cuomo Junior, stupidity like this is fuel for His Majesty's bonfire of excuses to ban any kind of "weapon" he can find any shabby excuse to ban. Wrist-supported slingshots are already illegal in NY and the unsupported variety are probably already on some kind of hit list...

Troopers: Man used slingshot to damage neighbor's property Published 11:07 am, Saturday, June 28, 2014

NEW SCOTLAND - A dust-up between two Spore Road neighbors ended up with one of them facing charges for damaging property, State Police said. More than a week ago, troopers were called to investigate damage to a residence on the road and to two vehicles that were parked at that New Scotland home. On Friday, the victim found further damage and authorities arrested the man's neighbor David P. Ellers. Police said Ellers then allegedly admitted to using a sling-shot to fire metal pellets towards the victim's residence due to an on-going neighbor dispute between them. Ellers was arraigned on misdemeanor charges of fourth-degree criminal mischief and first-degree harassment and ordered to return to court July 17.


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## Aries666 (Feb 22, 2014)

Wow. Not sure what to think about this one. I have always lived in a red state that allows me to carry almost any weapon I already or wish to carry. Something like this in my state would get you more of a slap on the wrist for what this guy did. And I'm not sure if I'm more angry about the over bearing laws or that a guy gave a weapon with an already bad wrap an even worse wrap in a state that is about to outlaw slingshots all together. Not helping the cause at all. Next time empty you pockets and hands, take it outside and handle it like men.


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## Arber (Mar 30, 2013)

They will ban anything in New York. Knives already have a blade length limitation. If they can't ban 'em they will put some form of limitation on them. It's terrible.


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

New Jersey is even worse!


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## Aries666 (Feb 22, 2014)

Wow. In Az as long as you don't conceal it you can carry any size blade. Gun laws are even better too.


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## Pebble Shooter (Mar 29, 2014)

Indeed, bad news for responsible slingshot shooters on your side of the pond; beware of knee-jerk reactions à la GB and their handgun legislation...

In Switzerland, wrist-supported slingshots have been "verboten" for a long time, like in Germany, and the ordinary, humble slingshot is legally considered as a "dangerous object". However, this does not imply a ban on carrying them as they are not considered as weapons, but the police are authorised to confiscate slingshots if they feel that the person concerned is likely to use them in a way that could endanger property or people.

Therefore, carrying a slingshot whilst hiking in the mountains is far less of an issue than carrying one in populated areas - but there is no clear cut distinction in legal terms i.e. it's always wise to be discrete as the general prevailing public view of slingshots is more likely to be negative. To be honest, not that many people actually buy, make, or use slingshots in Switzerland. Some might buy them to deal with pooping pigeons, although they are probably more likely purchase an air rifle to get the job done discretely: you actually need a hunting license to do this legally, but only with hunting rifles and shotguns deemed suitable. Slingshot hunting...not a good idea in this part of the world, if ever.

What really is needed are slingshot introduction stands at major shooting-related events, or slingshot "open days" when people can come along to try out our fun sport in a safe context with "expert" explanations. It seems to me that this is the only way to promote a generally positive image, as there will always be the occasional idiot who through stupid acts end up punishing the large, well-meaning majority among us. I hope this latest event in NY fades away without adverse consequences for those concerned.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

This is why we need to form the National Catapult Association. There's strength in numbers. Maybe become associated with the Archery Assoc. or the NRA. Someone with lawyers to defend our interests.


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

I think you are showing outrage over an imaginary situation. Watch too much Faux news? I agree NY has one of the restrictive gun laws in the nation, but no reason to despair. In this particular case some fool did some mischief and got arraigned for misdemeanor and harassment - sounds reasonable. No one is talking about banning slingshots altogether. I agree there should be more slingshot introduction and education opportunities at major shooting events, and instead of taking an antagonistic stance we should work to cultivate a positive public image for this sport. If some type of harmless regulation is deemed necessary as a compromise then so be it.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Like the harmless regulation in Orange CA. You aren't allowed to shoot slingshots or discharge air guns outside at all. Only inside your closed garage or house. So even if you have a large back yard if your caught you will get fined and confiscation of what your shooting with. Sounds harmless. And I don't watch Fox or MSNB HEE HAW either.


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## slinger61 (Jun 4, 2014)

Flatband said:


> New Jersey is even worse!


Yeah...isn't mere possession a felony in NJ?


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

"Harmless regulation" I had no idea such a thing existed???


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## Blackbriar (Apr 30, 2013)

You guys should try living here in UK ............................

Knife blades have a length restriction, must be non - locking and can be either a 'concealed' or an 'offensive' weapon, dependent on the circumstances.

A catapult is considered an 'offensive weapon' if you're caught mis - using it (firing it on land where you don't have permission, for instance).

We have probably the most restrictive gun enforcement laws in the world, and ALL handguns and automatic rifles are completely banned, without exception.

To own a shotgun, even for solely sporting purposes and if the weapon is stored at a secure shooting club, you need to demonstrate 'sufficient reason', and are subject to a face - to - face police interview.

Even our air rifles and pistols are subject to muzzle energy limits, a move which effectively killed off competitive pistol shooting over night !!


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## slinger61 (Jun 4, 2014)

The British authorities have a long history going back to the middle ages of treating the common people as disposable assets of the rich and powerful. They value 'order' and THEIR safety over yours. They like having a defenseless population to lord over like sheep in a pen to do what they wish with. Authorities the world over love such set ups.


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## Lacumo (Aug 18, 2013)

gwatch said:


> I think you are showing outrage over an imaginary situation. Watch too much Faux news?


This piece came from the Albany Times-Union. That's the daily newspaper in Albany, which is the capital of New York State. The quality of T-U news reportage is admittedly lacking (what with the T-U being the administration's puppet and mouthpiece), but in the 50 years I've lived here, I don't remember them being known for reporting "imaginary situations." This is definitely not what you refer to as "faux news" and the jerk in question isn't due to appear in a "faux court" either. The court in question is in a suburban town adjacent to the city of Albany.

As regards "banning slingshots altogether"--- we're already part of the way there in NY, since wrist-supported slingshots are already illegal. I doubt Emperor Cuomo Junior will go for the gold and try to ban them altogether, but his Second Amendment Rights opposition and by extension Bill of Rights general opposition are well-known and nobody familiar with the political landscape here would put anything past him.

The ease of purchasing and owning firearms that you enjoy in CA do not exist in NY. Emperor Cuomo Junior has already done more to diminish firearms ownership prerogatives in NY than the sum total of all the governors (&/or emperors) before him. Since everything is a pre-Presidential race media attention-getting sound bite/photo op to Cuomo, those of us who live here know better than to race headlong into what you mistakenly call a "compromise" but would actually be submission and defeat with a dictatorial megalomaniac like Cuomo.

On your question about whether or not I watch too much "faux news"... The answer is no. I have to read the T-U to stay on top of local stuff, but the online wire service that I follow is Reuters. I don't think they're known for "faux news" (although I don't know what your personal definition of that phrase is).


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Vote every politician out, start with all new. First test they take is a common sense test, that should level the playing field. Could be a long process, but worth it in the end. Here is all I have to say, which is more than I should. Went to the bank in a neighboring town with a friend a few days ago. . There was a sign on the door, no firearms allowed, well that should solve everything. I can see it now, the crooks outside are checking to see what weapons are legal so they don't break any laws.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Sorry if I offended anyone with my reply. This is what I should have said. We put deadbolt locks on our doors to keep unwanted guest out. Problem is there is a piece of glass ( window) right next to it. I don't know how many windows you have broken, but there is no special tools needed. The only ones that obey all these stupid no common sense laws is the law abiding people.


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

@Cjw: Some counties allow outside use of slingshots (Citrus Heights, El dorado hills for instance), and many don't (Livermore, SF etc). On a general note, in a crowded city with small backyards one should not be allowed to discharge airguns and slingshots outside. It will cause excessive discomfort to neighbors. Slingshots projectiles can reach velocities close to a musket and therefore should be a concern for neighbors. You are only allowed to use indoors and that is reasonable (I do target practice indoors). Crowded cities offer us a lot of benefits in other areas of life and some accommodation for others is necessary. I do not know Orange county, and you may indeed be a victim of unjust laws, but regulations restricting outdoor (backyard) use of slingshots are reasonable in some situations.

@Lacumo: Thanks for the long post. The "imaginary situation" I refer to is not the T-U report itself but your using of the incident to indict Cuomo Jr. I did some research and it appears all slingshots are already illegal in NJ, your neighbor state. Although it is the legislature that makes laws, a governor can influence the process. I see where you are coming from.


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## BCLuxor (Aug 24, 2010)

Blackbriar said:


> You guys should try living here in UK ............................
> 
> Knife blades have a length restriction, must be non - locking and can be either a 'concealed' or an 'offensive' weapon, dependent on the circumstances.
> 
> ...


I just got back from walking my dog. We walk a public footpath through a nice field area. Heading home we came across a man and woman armed with two shotguns! I shouted them to break the barrel before we were close (which they did) but i find it disgusting that they were armed less than 500 yards from a public road. Moreover a LOT of young kids play in these fields etc round the old woods and WW2 ruins. These two "beeps" were out quote "checking up on a rabbit or two" I have understanding of game/vermin control etc but they set a poor example to my today for relaxing our "tight" laws. There callas regard for there downrange shot fall was horrifying. A police interview or not there are no second chances in this fields.


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

slinger61 said:


> The British authorities have a long history going back to the middle ages of treating the common people as disposable assets of the rich and powerful. They value 'order' and THEIR safety over yours. They like having a defenseless population to lord over like sheep in a pen to do what they wish with. Authorities the world over love such set ups.


In US the rich and powerful achieve the same result through different means. Throw guns and religion at the masses, give them a false sense of power, and they will vote against their own self interest, and in service of rich and powerful.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

But we have the US constitution and the bill of rights on our side that's why we're citizens and not subjects.i can actually defend my self if someone enters my home. And can actually buy an airgun off the shelf I can hunt with. And don't have to have my shotgun locked up at a shooting club.And go to any sporting goods store in my city and buy a wrist braced slingshot and ammo.


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

Velocities close to a musket. LOL I need to some of your bands. HAHAHAHA

From the statement above I automatically ignore anything else you say about firearms, their regulation or political ideology in general.

Guns and religion giving a false sense of power...good grief. I believe this thread was aptly named.


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

One more comment then I am completely through with this thread. The Republicrats and Demopublicans can pass all the rules, regulations, laws, bills and anything else that they want, and as long as I can buy exercise bands or office bands and tree branches fork I will shoot slingshots.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Isn't that the same mayor trying to ban sodas over 16 ounces. You can buy 2 , 16 ounce sodas but not 1 over 16 ounces . That makes a lot of sense.????


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

August West said:


> "Harmless regulation" I had no idea such a thing existed???


I should have said "reasonable regulation". I understand regulation is inconvenient and expensive.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Oh and I shoot black powder guns all the time and I want to see the band set that can propel a projectile the feet per second my Ruger old army can shoot. Please get real.


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## Lacumo (Aug 18, 2013)

gwatch said:


> ... it is the legislature that makes laws ... a governor can influence the process...


That's usually the case, but isn't always. Do some homework on the subject of how Emperor Cuomo Junior subverted/bypassed the legislative process to ram through his so-called "Safe Act" last year. Our Emperor pulled a fast one then to realize his finest pre-Presidential race media attention-grabbing sound bite/photo op yet. By using his executive "memorandum of immediacy" (or "memorandum of urgency"--I forget which is the correct name), he forced his grandstand play anti-Second Amendment Rights bill through in one day and avoided the traditional legislative review and input portions of the bill passage process. His Majesty has proven that he has zero qualms about acting unilaterally/dictatorially and subverting/bypassing the legislative branch bill review and input when he can make political hay out of doing so. Despite popular delusions to the contrary, that "how a bill becomes law" crap they teach the kids in school doesn't apply all the time.

This is why civil liberties and "constitutionally guaranteed rights" are not necessarily safe in NY these days. It's also why I find the vandalism stunt that fool pulled with a slingshot so objectionable. That guy is facing two misdemeanor charges because he allegedly fired metal pellets "toward" his neighbors house. I don't mind that, but his actions have the potential of impacting on the rest of us and I definitely mind that. In the present NY political environment, it's not entirely unlikely for minor incidents like this to have wildly disproportionate results.


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

August West said:


> Velocities close to a musket. LOL I need to some of your bands. HAHAHAHA
> 
> From the statement above I automatically ignore anything else you say about firearms, their regulation or political ideology in general.
> 
> Guns and religion giving a false sense of power...good grief. I believe this thread was aptly named.


"Muzzle velocities range from approximately 120 m/s (390 ft/s) to 370 m/s (1,200 ft/s) in black powder muskets"
from http://en.wikipedia....Muzzle_velocity

Watch torsten's youtube videos and convince yourself that his velocities exceed lower limit of muskets.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Look up what caliber muskets were normally see if your slingshot can hurl that weight of projectile that speed. We're not talking 1/4 in . Steel.


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

Cjw said:


> Look up what caliber muskets were normally see if your slingshot can hurl that weight of projectile that speed. We're not talking 1/4 in . Steel.


I only said "Slingshots projectiles can reach velocities close to a musket". I didn't say anything about size of projectile. So my evidence supports my conclusion. As a corollary you can also convince yourself that a 3/8 inch lead/steel ball at that speed is dangerous enough to warrant concern from close living neighbors if you are involved in backyard shooting practice (the context I made my original point).


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

The guy racing his dirt bike up and down the block is more of a hazard and the kid flying down the sidewalk on his skateboard are more of hazard then my slingshot shooting at a catch box. Since I had 6 foot block walls at my house in Orange. And the only thing behind me was the San Gabriel river.The problem is anything having to do with shooting is politically incorrect, in the nanny state.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If your comfortable in the government has to protect me from everything world hey what ever floats your boat.


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

Cjw said:


> The guy racing his dirt bike up and down the block is more of a hazard and the kid flying down the sidewalk on his skateboard are more of hazard then my slingshot shooting at a catch box. Since I had 6 foot block walls at my house in Orange. And the only thing behind me was the San Gabriel river.The problem is anything having to do with shooting is politically incorrect, in the nanny state.


The argument that *(I think)* X and Y are as dangerous as Z, and since X and Y not regulated so Z also should not be regulated in not impressive. You can make that universal argument against just about any regulation of this type. Also, 6 foot wall behind a river is your particular situation. Not everyone have that luxury in every county where this regulation is in effect. As I said "you may indeed be a victim of unjust laws, but regulations restricting outdoor (backyard) use of slingshots are reasonable in some situations."


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## Performance Catapults (Feb 3, 2010)

I've said this before, and I'll say it again...

Louisville Sluggers have been used in much more violent crimes. Just make sure you promote the sport in a positive light!


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## gwatch (Apr 27, 2014)

Lacumo said:


> gwatch said:
> 
> 
> > ... it is the legislature that makes laws ... a governor can influence the process...
> ...


Your description of the situation is not entirely accurate. According to http://www.humanevents.com/2013/06/16/upstate-n-y-gop-working-to-repeal-cuomos-gun-law/: "The Republican majority made this happen," said Rep. David J. DiPietro (R.-East Aurora), a freshmen state assemblyman representing parts of Erie and Wyoming County in western New York.

Dean G. Skelos (R.-Rockville Centre) who is the majority leader of the New York State Senate is to blame, he said. "He voted for the bill. He allowed the bill to come to the floor."

I don't know if the assemblyman is speaking the truth but one this is certain -- Voting took place and the bill passed NY state senate and NY state assembly (with some Republican legislators voting in favor of it). Cuomo used unfair political tricks no doubt, but he is not entirely to blame. I am not impressed by your partisan rhetoric.


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

If people would stop hurting other people perhaps the laws wouldn't be needed. What the law makers never will understand is no law will guarantee compliance, i.e. laws can never legislate morality, i.e. respect for others. . If I lived in NY or any other nanny state, I'd own what I want to own, law or no law but of course not waltz around the police ball with it hanging out of my pocket. Intentional property destruction or shooting at people obviously brings on such legislation by legislators who are ignorant arrogant wuss who lack things to do. In Ecuador it's almost impossible to legally own a fire arm but of course criminals have them...the usual case of disarming innocent public to protect same...idiots. But no matter, we've got fire power galore, law or no law. We feel laws are only made to be obeyed when convenient when it comes to personal protection. Woe be to the parasite who tries to come inside our compound unwanted. First, they have to do so very quietly for our six dogs will hear a fish poot in the pond let along an intruder. Second, "lead poisoning" or a cross bow bolt, whichever Chuck feels is necessary. Maybe both. Third, our neighbors feel the same way. Fourth, the river runs fast and floaters just sail away...LOL. When we asked our neighborhood cop shop what to do with thieves, the reply was and this is the truth, "Don't put the body around here, go downstream twenty or so kilometers so we don't have to handle the paper work up here when the body washes up on shore, the next cop shop down stream has to."

The police have orders to shoot on sight any thief and carry full auto shoulder arms and Glocks, loaded, on foot and veh patrol here. Open season. I fully agree.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

Cjw said:


> But we have the US constitution and the bill of rights on our side . . .


obamas' pen and phone has nullified them.


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## Sherman (Oct 2, 2012)

I'm not going to wade into this one, except to say...I sure appreciate the diversity of opinions and willingness of you all to discuss and debate these important topics. Try to keep an open mind and stick to the facts. One thing many of us tend to take for granted (I've been guilty sometimes) is that we live in countries (most of us on this forum, anyway) where we have free speech. What a thing to be grateful for and to make sure we keep!


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## Lacumo (Aug 18, 2013)

gwatch said:


> ...one this is certain -- Voting took place and the bill passed NY state senate and NY state assembly (with some Republican legislators voting in favor of it). Cuomo used unfair political tricks no doubt, but he is not entirely to blame. I am not impressed by your partisan rhetoric.


The point here is that Emperor Cuomo rammed his erosion of civil liberties "guaranteed" by the Bill of Rights through without the ordinary legislative review and public input process. You can argue that a >24 hour "process" constitutes "legislative involvement" but it's entire dimensions short of the ordinary committee referral, review and input process. There were Republicans who got pressured into voting for that erosion, but it was Cuomo who forced it through on a >24 hour basis and refused to allow his power play to go through the ordinary committee review and public input process. There is no disputing or dismissing that point and what was done was more than just mere "political tricks." It was the dictatorial erosion of civil liberties.

As for your not being "...impressed..." by an unfavorable view of the erosion of civil liberties in New York---that doesn't really much matter. You're an uninvolved spectator and your rights aren't under attack by Cuomo---yet...

I still find it hard to believe that slingshots are illegal in NJ and wrist-supported slingshots are illegal in NY. Those ridiculous conditions came into being as the result of what I'm sure a lot of sheeple rationalized as being "reasonable compromises." We're now only one step away from having slingshots outlawed in NY and our Cuomo has already demonstrated his robust skill set in the area of getting his personal will made into law overnight. Anybody who wants to can trivialize those facts, but there is no disputing them.


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## Aries666 (Feb 22, 2014)

My heart goes out to all the slingsters in NJ as well as anywhere else sling laws are over bearing. But we do have strength in number. And can even resolve this in numbers.


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## Rob72 (May 13, 2014)

Interesting. I'm new to the forum, and I will make this observation: slingshots/catapults are weapons. Period. End of story. It's nice to have conversations about "sporting use", etc., etc., and in overall context, these statements are true. However, anyone who spent time in Northern Ireland, or Gaza/the West Bank in the '80s will smile indulgently, saying, "Suuure..."

Allowance of "sporting use" will always be at the momentary, discretionary, whim of those who believe, or know, that the power they can bring to bear for control vastly exceeds that of those they govern. There are *no* historical precendents indicating the contrary.

"People sleep peaceably in their bed at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." -George Orwell/Eric Arthur Blair

True of dictators and freemen alike.


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