# Totally square, man...



## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

So...where does one go about sourcing this square ammo that's all the rage with you kids now adays? It's OK...you can tell me. I won't narc...


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Go to your local hardware store and purchase a 3 foot rod of desired stock size . Lets say 3/8 inch . Then take a hack saw and cut 3/8 " length pieces . Now you have a 3/8 " cube . Hope that is helpful .


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Sure is...
...anyone sell it with the work already done? I can be ... incredibly lazy...


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## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Will you pay for the information?


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

honorary pie said:


> Will you pay for the information?


...I'll pay it in pumps


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## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Fist, fuel, or Reebok's?


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

One of each until the jobs done...


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

I guess i should just cut my own if I've got to get THIS sweaty over it...
...at least I'll still be able to walk the next day...LoL


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## bigdh2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

TheNewSlingshotGuy is the one you want to talk with as he buys them already cut from somewhere. He sent me some in a trade.


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

Try the junk yard. Should be cheaper than a hardware store.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Thanks, fellas! Very much appreciated..


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## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Square nuts from hardware store?


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

honorary pie said:


> Square nuts from hardware store?


Ooohh...good thinking, pie! I've never seen these in the flesh (ammo); are we talking square or cube?


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

I have a 4 inch hand grinder. I got some of the thin steel cut of wheels for it at Home Depot pretty cheap. It takes longer to measure the bar and set it in the vise than it does to cut it.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Wingshooter said:


> I have a 4 inch hand grinder. I got some of the thin steel cut of wheels for it at Home Depot pretty cheap. It takes longer to measure the bar and set it in the vise than it does to cut it.


So...you charge what for materials, labour, & delivery?


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

honorary pie said:


> Square nuts from hardware store?


Yep, I have a trip my fastener place coming up, it would be far cheaper for me to fasten two square nuts together that have 7/16 square rod cut, just priced it out.

wll


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

wll said:


> honorary pie said:
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How do you "fasten them together"?


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## Susi (Mar 3, 2013)

OK, the post about trying the scrap yard/recycler is precisely where I look FIRST for anything of metal...about half price of regular stock.

I tried scraps of rebar and it worked alright but the irregularities on the rebar to grab concrete sort of made them knobby and increased the fiddle factor (quote that idioma from Charles btw) of getting them centered in the pouch.

After cutting they are sharp on the edges which erodes your pouch and may nick your bands as they are shot...so I tumble mine for a couple days with hard rocks and water in a rock tumbler to knock down the sharp edges. Charles told me however, being a cylinder shootin' guy, that some folks LIKE the sharp edges to create more trauma on the target animal (hunters obviously) rather than round balls or rounding off edges as I do with my slugs.

Don't herniate yourself using a hand hack saw. If you have a band saw, get a metal cutting blade for it, change the blade from wood to metal. Make a "stop" using a C clamp or other clamp on the table of the saw so it cuts the same length as the width of the stock...trial and error but that's how you do it. Now stack up some boxes or whatever close to the saw table so you can support the rod stock while cutting it. Cut away.

If you DON'T have a band saw (I use my cut off band saw and it's super quick for 10mm square stock) then go to a machine shop and ask them to cut your stock in squares. They may let YOU do it for a six pack of frothing slosh or so....depends on how afraid of OSHA they are, if at all. I get very little kerf from my band saw so a meter of 1cm stock yields maybe 90 slugs. Don't use a cut off abrasive disk/wheel, it uses up too much kerf. I use round stock instead of square stock because cylindrical slugs seem to nestle down in the pouch faster than squares..with squares, well to be precise, cubes, there is a fiddle factor involved that I don't like...cylinders cut from round stock roll right into place saving fiddle factor before a shot is taken...but to each their own. We're not getting paid to see how fast we can shoot...hehe, not piece work.

I would first try round stock, say, 3/8" or 7/16" to compare it to your existing square slugs before you make several hundred of 'em. Then make what you like best.

OH GEEZ, WHY DOESN'T SOME ENTERPRISING LADDY HERE BE THE FIRST ON HIS BLOCK TO OFFER CYLINDRICAL AND SQUARE SLUGS? Tah dah! Were I in USA I would...a window in to business for someone here.


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

Tentacle Toast said:


> honorary pie said:
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A square nut is not a cube and some weight will be lost due to the hole.


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

Tentacle Toast said:


> wll said:
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You can fasten them together with a threaded rod or a bolt cut to size. The double nuts on the left have a star washer and the ones on the right a cut bolt only.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

pgandy said:


> Tentacle Toast said:
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That is exactly how it is done ;- )

wll


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

So that's not really "square" or "cubed" then, as there's going to be odd protrusion, yes? So far, the hack-sawed down rod seems to be 'pinnacle'...am I mistaken?


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Sounds like the rod stock cut whichever way you choose. Roger is probably doing it as easy as possible with those cutoff discs.


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## bigdh2000 (Feb 9, 2015)

There is a game that uses 1/4" cubes and they come in packs of about 8. Pictures to follow shortly.


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

Hex nuts, square nuts, rods, cut cubes, and certainly balls are not equal.


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## TheNewSlingshotGuy (Oct 11, 2014)

bigdh2000 said:


> TheNewSlingshotGuy is the one you want to talk with as he buys them already cut from somewhere. He sent me some in a trade.


The ones I have are a pre-made product. They are part of a game called "5 stones" or "Kugelach". I can go down to my local Judaica store and get 5pcs for about $1. Now that I think about it, I would rather go buy some square stock and cut em' myself! Much cheaper that way.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Seems like the fastest and probably best way would be to do it in lead (Pb)... I bet it wouldn't take to much to make up a real snazzy mold.... maybe using square aluminum tubing with an appropriate inside diameter size for an easy start...


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Now that's something I could get into doing...have you ever used Bi instead of lead for moulding ammo? That's what I believe is being used in the newer "environmentally friendly" bird loads, if I'm not mistaken (plus it'd give me a reason to make more crystals 






)

Yay/nay?

I've seen that square aluminum tubing somewhere recently, too...


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

pgandy said:


> Tentacle Toast said:
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Do you have any trouble with the star washer getting caught up in the pouch, if not I would think that could really rip up a target.

wll


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

wll said:


> pgandy said:
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I had no pouch issues using the stars. And they ripped up my targets more so than other shot. That goes for my pockets as well and for that reason I stopped carrying them. That and I didn't need the extra punch. If I needed them I would come up with another carry method out of my pockets such as a magnet or leather carrying pouch.


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

Two nuts and a bolt cost what? I think that would be in the 10-15 cents USD in many stores. Cut offs of 10mm round stock here at least, black cheap iron bought new and not cheaper scrap yard stock, only cost about $1.25/95 slugs or a bit over a cent each. Scrap yard metal would be of course less.

Machine shops or a high school industrial arts teacher may accommodate your cut offs pretty cheap as well as a friend with a band saw cut off tool. Even the thinnest abrasive disk in a hand grinder will eat up a lot of metal in the form of kerf and as mentioned by a poster above it's hard to measure and cut. He's not invented a stop yet however...a way to automatically advance the rod the same each time. Abrasive disks also leave a large flange on the cut which is nasty sharp and has to be removed..adding more time to the work...not acceptable in my book.

I really don't see the fascination in cubes when cylinders pouch better and fly straight. I've tried both as well as thick hex nuts and by far cylinders settle/center easier/faster in the pouch than any other shape and equal to spheres in the ease of pouching. A cylinder will roll itself to center as would a sphere whereas anything with a flat side won't. It all will work, sheesh, when I was a kid and didn't respect wild life many a bird went to the happy hunting ground with just rocks, so it's a matter of accuracy, cost and ease of pouching.

Right about here I wish Charles would put in his two cents worth since he's tried about everything...and settled on cylindrical ammo as far as I know per post and PMs. Personally I don't care who shoots what and I do care that we try many options, spheres, lead, steel, hex nuts, marbles, cylinders, .45 bullets, .38spcl 110gr wad cutters (cylinders), objects that come with games (expensive but...) bicycle ball bearings from scrap from bike shops, those little glass balls that come with the pour tops of whisky bottles, that's the fun of experimentation and life itself. Do it all, enjoy.

"Use it up. Wear it out. Eat it all. Waste not want not."


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

Tentacle Toast said:


> So that's not really "square" or "cubed" then, as there's going to be odd protrusion, yes? So far, the hack-sawed down rod seems to be 'pinnacle'...am I mistaken?


I have shot square nuts, hex nuts nut's with threaded rod inside nuts with lead pounded in the middle and with out a doubt the cubes are the most lethal from the test that I have run. Compare them with anything that weighs the same and you will see what I mean. Here are a couple of pictures of a can that I almost missed and you can see the cube cut its way thru the very edge of the can. If this had been a ball it would have brushed past the can leaving a dent. The next two pictures show accuracy each time I hit the can it rotated just a little but you can see on the back the cubes exited the same area.

It doesn't take very long to cut up a rod using a hack saw. Cut five at a time then take beer break then do another five.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Wingshooter said:


> Tentacle Toast said:
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> > So that's not really "square" or "cubed" then, as there's going to be odd protrusion, yes? So far, the hack-sawed down rod seems to be 'pinnacle'...am I mistaken?
> ...


...thats what I'm after...


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

Am not saying double hex is the most effective as I have not yet obtained a square rod, but certainly is excellent. I strongly suspect square steel may exceed the double hex in penetration although the hex will be superior in energy. This is based on the size nuts I use and will check another store for something larger. Jumping up to 7/16" or larger steel cubes may top what I am using energy wise. Materials are hard for me to come by so my experimentation is slow. A hit on the side of an aluminium can it will rip the side while my best ball will send the can flying leaving a crease.

Here is a tin can shot with double nut, and I think with a star.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)




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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

The 3/8 cube I use weighs 104.3 grain per cube. This is the weight I like to shoot. The 7/16 cube (hard to come by) would be 165.2, magnum's. The 1/2 cube staggers in at 247.1 that is out there where WII hangs out.

To help eliminate the fiddle factor use a white sharpie and mark a two sided outline for the cube helps a lot. I find they are a lot easier to center than the nuts.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Wingshooter said:


> The 3/8 cube I use weighs 104.3 grain per cube. This is the weight I like to shoot. The 7/16 cube (hard to come by) would be 165.2, magnum's. *The 1/2 cube staggers in at 247.1 that is out there where WII hangs out.*
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> To help eliminate the fiddle factor use a white sharpie and mark a two sided outline for the cube helps a lot. I find they are a lot easier to center than the nuts.


I read that and fell over laughing ;- )

Actually for this application a 7/16 square would be great, but the bar stock is not always in stock. My problem is getting it cut, as the cutting services want to charge .39 per cut, that is about 240+ in cutting charges alone for 3 12' bars.

Sorry that is way to much. I would want it cut at the most + or - .010, and then I would through the cubes in my vibratory machine, just to remove any burrs.

For me it may be a two square nuts held in place by a set screw. Our fastener vendor is very reasonable on price and I need to get some samples to test before I by a few thousand square nuts and set screws. I would really like to get 7/16 rod just cut !

We will see ?

wll


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

...it almost seems like someone with the tools & a little time on their hands could carve himself a nice little niche in the market. As of now, whenever I do get my hands on any, I'm going to be more concerned with recovery than ever before...


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

I would be careful about using a tumbler on those cubes. It would be the easiest way to take care of the sharp irregular edges but you may be losing something. It is those 90° edges and well defined corners that make cubes effective. A tumbler will smooth and radius those. An irregular edge, if bothersome, can best be handled with a file in order to keep it sharp. I don't think cubes will replace other forms of shot when it comes to satisfying those who like flinging lots of ammo about. But for those of use that shoot a few shots for maximum effect looks to me to be promising.

The 7/16" cube will weigh in between .50 cal. lead and my double nuts. Thanks Wingshooter. The search is still on.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

It seems like any "large scale" production would be too cumbersome to hand file, but I get how the tumbler would be counter-productive. What about a plasma cutter? Don't those leave bur free edges? I know next to nothing about this stuff, so please forgive me if thats a stupid question...


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## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Probably the quickest way to produce relatively tag-free square ammo would be to mark out an entire bar of whatever your choice size steel. Account for half the blade thickness on each mark, and cut each line halfway through, flip the bar and finish the cut from the other side... Leaving the small but in the center. Or clamping the bar to another bar as you chop it will leave the cuts relatively burr-free as you cut slightly into the next bar with each slice. A quick run with some 100grit would clean up the rough edges.


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## sharp eye (Jun 3, 2014)

Using steel cubes ammo would be very high risk for your hand if you hold the frame in a kind of pinch or finger and thumb brace. If by accident you hit your hand or fingers with this sharp metal cube it might cause a very serious injury.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

sharp eye said:


> Using steel cubes ammo would be very high risk for your hand if you hold the frame in a kind of pinch or finger and thumb brace. If by accident you hit your hand or fingers with this sharp metal cube it might cause a very serious injury.


This ammo is not for a beginner for sure. You better have your mud together for this stuff and your fingers away from the launch area. I would never shoot this in one of my Dankung slings as an example, my fingers are to close to the tubes.

I can bet one smack with this ammo and you could very well loose a finger, this is some dangerous stuff.

wll


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

I would not attempt to shoot that stuff without hand protection. I would wear this, a well padded bicycle gloves.

















For those really concerned and wishing more protection try this. It is a leather gauntlet designed for sword/knife use. One day I'll get around to adding plate armour. Somewhat of an overkill but would definitely work. :banana:


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## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Thise gauntlets,, Can I get one for my pouch hand?/ I crave symmetry..


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

honorary pie said:


> Thise gauntlets,, Can I get one for my pouch hand?/ I crave symmetry..


http://www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=SNLA6802BR&name=Leather+Demi-Gauntlets+


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Those are great ideas and something I should have in my tool box !

wll


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

I picked up a hacksaw blade for cutting heavy metal for my demolition saw. This seems to work the best so far. It cuts fast but doesn't leave the big bur like the hand grinder does. It does use up more material. I can get two pieces per inch. Something I haven't mentioned is the 3/8 cube measures 1/2 on the diagonal. Buying short pieces makes the ammo cost a little over 9 cents per piece, not the kind of stuff you want to go stump shooting with. I will try and get a picture tomorrow of the operation. I have been shooting it a lot and I have yet to have a flyer or a nick in the tube Like I have read. It shoots just like round balls.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Wingshooter said:


> I picked up a hacksaw blade for cutting heavy metal for my demolition saw. This seems to work the best so far. It cuts fast but doesn't leave the big bur like the hand grinder does. It does use up more material. I can get two pieces per inch. Something I haven't mentioned is the 3/8 cube measures 1/2 on the diagonal. Buying short pieces makes the ammo cost a little over 9 cents per piece, not the kind of stuff you want to go stump shooting with. I will try and get a picture tomorrow of the operation. I have been shooting it a lot and I have yet to have a flyer or a nick in the tube Like I have read. It shoots just like round balls.


Roger, your info is very valuable as you are pretty much treading on uncharted ground. My sources are too expensive as the cutting for me is a killer, and I don't know anyone with the saw I would need. When we get our third lathe that may be the answer, but that will be a while.

wll


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

Not Over-geeking this quest for superior kill power is the key, I think...

Easiest, biggest bang for your buck, and effort, in my opinion is forging facets into pre-cast lead balls...

Super easy to do without heat, and zero material loss! That means, if you start out with ammo consistent in weight, whatever you make of it will be consistent in weight!!!!

Couple whacks with a hammer, or squeeze em in a vise....

HeII, a strong set of hands can displace, and shape lead with pliers with little fuss... Get creative, but be mindful of the health risks associated with trans-dermal absorption of lead...

Your not likely to die from touching your balls, but keep direct contact to a minimum... Keep your balls in your pants, rather than "palming" them while you shoot..... Hehehehe that sort of thing...


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

After about 50 years of bullet casting I do not believe that one can squeeze and hammer a lead ball into a cube with the same sharp, hard corners as steel.


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

Cutting wheel weights into pieces using nuts square or hex all make for some lethal ammo. But of all the stuff I have shot these simple cubes give the most bang for the weight. The combo of reasonable weight speed and sharp edges puts this stuff in a different league. I have the same energy as the 12 MM steel I shoot but now I have penetration. The picture is the first shot this morning the ammo must have hit square to make this entrance hole. I feel kind of guilty picking on aluminum like this but I have a lot of cans to get rid of.


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## pgandy (Aug 15, 2011)

Wingshooter said:


> I feel kind of guilty picking on aluminum like this but I have a lot of cans to get rid of.


Yeah, tin cans would be more impressive.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

I can hardly wait to make some, this ammo really puts the slingshot in a different league for lethality !

wll


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

pgandy said:


> After about 50 years of bullet casting I do not believe that one can squeeze and hammer a lead ball into a cube with the same sharp, hard corners as steel.


Good thing a sharp-cornered cube is not what I was suggesting :nono:


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

Now here is an entrance hole  One thing I have notice on this stuff is that the aluminum cans last longer shooting the cubes. With the 12 MM balls I can generally cut/tear a can within 6 or 8 shots sometimes a little more. I have had to replace a can with every round. With the cubes if I am shooting good it seems to shred the central part of the can and the cubes pass through with out smacking the can. This doesn't happen all the time but often enough to notice.


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## Ifab25 (Jun 5, 2013)

Wingshooter, thanks to you, I bought one of those rods at our local Home Depot a couple weeks back and used the same "high tech" method as you did at first--the hack saw!! Shot them a few times the first day or two and then let them alone. Just this afternoon before seeing this thread, shot some of them again into one of the bud light thicker aluminum bottle looking cans. Yes, the stuff is wicked with how it will tear into a can. My accuracy is nowhere near the level of many of you guys, but I had no trouble with being on target with it. Yes, it takes a bit longer than round lead or steel ball bearing, but the devastation isn't even close.

I will post some pictures in a few days, since I've got to be out of town.

Thanks again for the idea!!


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

What about the square tubing filled with lead should be easier to cut with hack saw.


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## Wingshooter (Dec 24, 2009)

ghost0311/8541 said:


> What about the square tubing filled with lead should be easier to cut with hack saw.


I looked at square tubing and the shoulders are round. It would cut faster but now that I am using the demolition saw it is a piece of cake to cut the square rod. I believe anything you cut like that would be devastating. Rebar would have sharp edges on each end where the cube has an edge on every side. From the shooting I have done I believe it would make very lethal hunting ammo.


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