# Distinctly English Style



## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

I am still trying to get to something that will tell you a fork was made for poaching. I think what makes an English poacher distinct from others is its obvious cousinship to the classic Milbro. But the Milbro probably followed the tradition rather than began it. I could be wrong and will be happy to be educated by anyone who -- unlike me -- knows what he's talking about.

Here is what I'm talking about (two distinctly English style poachers).

Tabbed (white oak) . . .
















This would be even more authentic with tubes or solids?

Now the more modern un-tabbed (white oak) . . .
















Together. . .









Marcus made the point that what makes a catty a poacher is the fact that it was used to put meat on a poaching man's plate. I can't argue with that, but it also means that any catty can be considered a poacher. But what I'm getting at is this: Was the catty, in all likelihood, specifically made for the purpose?

Poaching isn't a big thing in America, but with the growing community of preppers and what-not, who knows what the future will bring?

I'd like to develop the style of stealth hunting slingshot that any aficionado fifty or a hundred years hence would recognize as the kind of slingshots Americans typically carved for poaching. I can't do it alone, there will have to be a consensus among us that likes the style and uses it.


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## reecemurg (Oct 9, 2011)

beautiful cattys !!! ,, i think you nail the poaching catty on the head ,, they are small , not super beautiful and im guessing accurate ! everything a poacher needs


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Reece, if I may, the accuracy comes more from the shooter than from the fork. Don't you agree?


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## f00by (May 18, 2010)

I miss shooting with some square rubber. I'll have to get some again







Nice nattys and i like the form factor


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## capnjoe (Jun 3, 2012)

I could survive with either. They do the same thing. I say if it's made in America it's an american poacher. Vice versa for those made on English soil. But what about poachers made on other foreign soils? I think their designation/title should reflect their place of origin.


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## harson (Oct 21, 2011)

Nice shooters Bill, yes a wee poacher should be a small simple no frills item that fits easily into a pocket.


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## harson (Oct 21, 2011)

harson said:


> Nice shooters Bill, yes a wee poacher should be a small simple no frills item that fits easily into a pocket.


Here is mine


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

capnjoe said:


> I could survive with either. They do the same thing. I say if it's made in America it's an american poacher. Vice versa for those made on English soil. But what about poachers made on other foreign soils? I think their designation/title should reflect their place of origin.


I think DH is searching for a definition of style, not just a statement of national origin.
You can play guitar in the "Spanish Classical" style even if you're in Hoboken playing a Gibson. You can make an "English Poacher" even if you're... wherever y'all are. DH is searching for something that could be made anywhere but defined as "American Poacher" style.


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## reecemurg (Oct 9, 2011)

I do agree DH that accuracy does come more from the shooter but having a good fork definately helps


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## inkspot (Dec 27, 2011)

I think thats going to be a tough one D.H.it going to have to be small, simple to make,and the user can't care about it if he/she was to toss it if the game warden is around,and there are aready tons of s/s that fit that.With all the different types of ammo around that are good for small game the samething applies,but as I'm sitting here thinking, maybe something along the lines of the hair splitter would fit the bill,I believe there is a patend on that design,but I think that it would be worth discussing it with ( god I hope I have is name right) Nathan.I know that there are natural forks in somewhat of that fram configuration,as I was looking a one to day on a persons lawn in my area,but the owner was not around so I couldn't get the name of the tree. But hopefully will be working in that area next week and if so intend to find out.


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## capnjoe (Jun 3, 2012)

I don't get it. I mean I understand what he's driving at, but I don't see how he can arrive there. The only difference I saw was the attachment method. Does that alone set it apart?

I have one of Bill's shooter and it's a peach, but it's difference from other naturals I have lies only in the lip he placed at the bottom. Which is unique and very comfortable. I thought that signature was his definition....

Small, compact, powerful enough to hunt with and a unique style to the carving. I can recognize his work..

That, being said, I wouldn't know an English poacher until I shook his hand and he told me he was a poacher.


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## Toddy (Oct 2, 2011)

I know I don't post much on here, but I always enjoy reading the site. As a 50 something life-long English poacher, for me it's about simple. I make all my frames for poaching from multiplex because it is cheap. It is also very easy and quick to make another frame identical to the last one, should I have to throw one away quickly. My frames are only sanded to 120 grit and have no finish applied to them.
So for me there is no such thing as an English poaching frame, that is just their intended use.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

This is my take on it. A concensus on something like this can't be planned, but must run its course naturally. That goes with alot of things, like sayings from the 80s "Gag me with a spoon". Take inovations from companies like Xerox(r) for example, I know many people use that as a term,even if they use another manufacturers copying machine. How about Google? That has become a verb as well.

The general definition of a poacher slingshot seems to have already been established. It seems time already took its coarse for the "English style" poacher to be defined. I think as of right now, the closest thing to an "American poacher" would be a "Hussy" since he hunted with that type as a kid.... of course time has established that as "a Hussy" already so no changing that now







...

So, like the PFS that has a distinguishable design, and the term tossed around enough for it to be added to "Webster's". One will just have to make a distinguished poacher dub it as "American Poacher" and see if it sticks. If enough people make it that way and call it by that name, it will eventually become so.

That's just how I see it, maybe I am missing a detail in your point, or this is so out of my area that I have no useful info to participate in this topic.

LGD


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

capnjoe said:


> I could survive with either. They do the same thing. I say if it's made in America it's an american poacher. Vice versa for those made on English soil. But what about poachers made on other foreign soils? I think their designation/title should reflect their place of origin.


Joe, you are missing the point. I'm trying to say that without knowing where the fork originated someone could identify it as the kind of fork an American stealth hunter used to carve.
But you do bring up a good point: there are many other cultures making poachers. But they aren't the same as English poachers. I'm trying to make one that we can all agree is uniquely American.
Hope I made myself clear.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

M_J said:


> I could survive with either. They do the same thing. I say if it's made in America it's an american poacher. Vice versa for those made on English soil. But what about poachers made on other foreign soils? I think their designation/title should reflect their place of origin.


I think DH is searching for a definition of style, not just a statement of national origin.
You can play guitar in the "Spanish Classical" style even if you're in Hoboken playing a Gibson. You can make an "English Poacher" even if you're... wherever y'all are. DH is searching for something that could be made anywhere but defined as "American Poacher" style.
[/quote]
Ah! Exactly. Thanks, Mike.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

inkspot said:


> I think thats going to be a tough one D.H.it going to have to be small, simple to make,and the user can't care about it if he/she was to toss it if the game warden is around,and there are aready tons of s/s that fit that.With all the different types of ammo around that are good for small game the samething applies,but as I'm sitting here thinking, maybe something along the lines of the hair splitter would fit the bill,I believe there is a patend on that design,but I think that it would be worth discussing it with ( god I hope I have is name right) Nathan.I know that there are natural forks in somewhat of that fram configuration,as I was looking a one to day on a persons lawn in my area,but the owner was not around so I couldn't get the name of the tree. But hopefully will be working in that area next week and if so intend to find out.


Yes, Inkspot. You are right that there are a ton of slingshots that could qualify, but sometimes a certain model, like the Milbro, comes along and becomes the reigning fad, so to speak. I'm looking for the American Milbro, I guess.


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## BCLuxor (Aug 24, 2010)




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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Toddy said:


> I know I don't post much on here, but I always enjoy reading the site. As a 50 something life-long English poacher, for me it's about simple. I make all my frames for poaching from multiplex because it is cheap. It is also very easy and quick to make another frame identical to the last one, should I have to throw one away quickly. My frames are only sanded to 120 grit and have no finish applied to them.
> So for me there is no such thing as an English poaching frame, that is just their intended use.


True enough. But when someone sees a Milbro, for example, or a fork carved by Marcus or Webby, they know that that was designed for poaching, because that's what those guys did with them. Any catty can be a poacher, but some are recognized as such whether they were actually used that way or not.

BTW, hello Toddy my good friend! Nice to hear from you, matey.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

lightgeoduck said:


> This is my take on it. A concensus on something like this can't be planned, but must run its course naturally. That goes with alot of things, like sayings from the 80s "Gag me with a spoon". Take inovations from companies like Xerox® for example, I know many people use that as a term,even if they use another manufacturers copying machine. How about Google? That has become a verb as well.
> 
> The general definition of a poacher slingshot seems to have already been established. It seems time already took its coarse for the "English style" poacher to be defined. I think as of right now, the closest thing to an "American poacher" would be a "Hussy" since he hunted with that type as a kid.... of course time has established that as "a Hussy" already so no changing that now
> 
> ...


Exatcamundo Mr. Duck!!!! There is a difference between this:









... and this:









The second one has a style and is reproducible. This is my version of what an American poacher should look like. I have made several similar ones now, and I am hoping to influence others to make this style, because I think it fits the bill for heavy flatbands, which are favored here and it is small, strong, and easy to make. The finish is not important.


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## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

Were I in the Lairds wood looking to offset a few taxes, I would want my poacher to look as much like a stick as possible(probably with a Rufus hook-up) So that when the Shire reeve rides up, I can snatch the bands off, drop it and it would blend with the forest floor.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

A American poacher aka beanshooter, simply made, used to take game.....sorry I don't have a pic of one by Mr. Hussey, but for years this style of slingshot did exactly what a poacher does...and as far as I know it's as American as any other style.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

Whoops guess I should read every post before I echo someone else's statements...sorry


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Hi Scott,
Yes, if a slingshot was used to poach game, it's a poacher. But the problem I see with the Hussey style is that it's a HUNTER, but not a poacher, because it wasn't built specifically for easy concealment. I don't think a hunter and a poacher are exactly the same thing. Although they can both be used either way.


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## wombat (Jun 10, 2011)

My 2 cents.







Firstly it's got to be a quickly made natural, nothing fancy. An American "poacher" is a Hussey or bean flip tied with flat bands. An English poacher always has leather tabs and usually tubes (originally the square ones) apparently the tabs keep it quieter? So I'd say the first pic is an English poacher, but the second one is just a nice natural.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay, I'm an idiot. I have failed to make myself clear. What I am trying to say is that the American poacher doesn't exist yet. Poaching isn't a big thing in America -- not with slingshots anyway. So of course nobody makes them and proudly exclaims, "Hey, look at this slingshot I made for poaching game with!" Poaching in America is pretty much known universally as a nefarious activity, not even up to the much higher regard granted to, say, running moonshine.

But as as this country keeps going the way of England, where more and more land is either developed for housing tracts or shopping malls, or owned by private wealth and used for golf courses, sports stadia with acres of parking lots, or just private "no trespassing" property -- added to the ever-growing trend of making slingshots and firearms illegal -- poaching small game may, along with fishing, become an option for someone whose job has been shipped overseas to feed his family. Now add in the Doomsday Preppers and Survivalists of all stripes and you have a "market" for a real poaching catty -- one that was meant not only for hunting, but for *specifically illegal* hunting.

I'm trying to suggest a model with my two-finger style catties like the one shown and others quite similar I've made in the past. But I don't want to just claim the title. I would like to build a consensus among those who want to make a poaching slingshot will make one in this particular style and size. You could say I'm trying to start a fad. And eventually Nathan or Bill Hays, or someone will figure out how to make a production model like Milbro did in England . . .

. . . and blah, blah, blah, blah. That is all.


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## jskeen (Feb 7, 2011)

I do get what you are saying, that eventually a design may come to be widely enough used for a specific purpose as to be identifiable specifically with that purpose. No problem with trying to be the one to come up with that design and promote it.

But, as was mentioned before, The primary factor that differentiates a poacher from a hunter, IMHO, is not so much the pocket-ability but the disposability. If it's too beautifuly crafted to toss when the game gestapo are on your tail, or visible enough to be easily spotted by them afterward, then it's a hunter, not a poacher. YMMV of course.


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## tradspirit (Jul 23, 2012)

Interesting subject. I agree with James, a "poacher" needs to meet certain criteria: disposability, concealability, inexpensive replaceability, and silent. It must also be sufficiently ergonomic to allow sufficient practice for the shooter to achieve the necessary accuracy, and powerful enough to assure single shot head kills. I think some of the wire formed and taped wrapped slings with braided or knotted store bought rubber bands may fit the requirements, but natural forks that are not drilled for tubes, sanded, or notched for ties would also be appropriate tools of the trade, and as stated above, make the poaching sling more "invisible" when disposed, and perhaps reuseable if recovered.


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## Toddy (Oct 2, 2011)

And a hearty hello to you too Mr Dayhiker sir. Ok so I honestly do get where you are coming from on this. So for me an American poacher should be made from a native tree to start with. Something 'known' to be American as Blackthorn is to the English poacher. That would be my starting point anyway.


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## marcus1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Dogwood with Paracord tabs,wrap and tuck Tex tubes,or dogwood fork with tex latex bands,can you go anymore American?


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## Adirondack Kyle (Aug 20, 2012)

I get what your saying bill, a defined design,something that recognized as such immediately. I guess it prob depends on intended use. Plus maybee the bands being used? Cool thread though


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## Hawkman (Oct 18, 2012)

wombat said:


> My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Not wanting to sound too pedantic but I come from a family of English poachers and I never saw a leather tab until I joined this forum. They were always made from string. Every catapult I ever saw as a boy was string looped from side to side. Probably a regional thing.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

Hawkman said:


> wombat said:
> 
> 
> > My 2 cents. [img=[URL=http://slingshotforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png%5D]http://slingshotforum.com/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.png][/URL] Firstly it's got to be a quickly made natural, nothing fancy. An American "poacher" is a Hussey or bean flip tied with flat bands. An English poacher always has leather tabs and usually tubes (originally the square ones) apparently the tabs keep it quieter? So I'd say the first pic is an English poacher, but the second one is just a nice natural.
> ...


Wow, I have to admit, I needed to look that word up. That comment alone just validated all of your views here on out for me.

Cheers

LGD


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## Allen Welsh (Nov 13, 2012)

My tuppince worth.

there is no such thing as "A POACHER"

There a few hundred catapults that are used for poaching. It happens to be the one in yer pocket at the time ye take the bunny or Pheasant thats roostin.

Most of the old time Cattys were a good stout tree fork with square bands or inner tube from old car tires.

I think what Im tryin to say is there was no one model that was called a poacher.

So just build somethin tats strong and can chuck a at least .44 lead or a good size rock and its not gonna brake yer heart if ye have to dump it in the river or bushes if the need arises.

Cheers

AL


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## the gafer (Apr 15, 2012)

I agree with al there is not one ss that was a poacher the poacher was the man steeling game to feed his family but I would say its a simple set up so ya can lob it if the law or game keepers are fter you and all so fit in ya pocket so not to be seen


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## Hawkman (Oct 18, 2012)

I have to disagree with the above 2 statements, sorry. If there is no such thing as a poacher (because the title refers to the person rather than the implement) then there can be no such thing as a 'hammer grip' because that would refer to the adopted position of the fist rather than the implement. I agree that any cat' can/could be used for poaching but some are designed for just that. If you can't lable one a poacher then you can't lable one a target shooter. It is a description of an item intended for a specific use, any old vessel could be used to hold tea but if you asked for a tea cup then you would know what to expect.


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## marcus1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Ive done a little bit of putting food on the table with a catty,and if i was somewhere i shouldnt be,ie a new roost site ,place where game gathers my set up would be thus-natural fork,bark on,tabs which as well as eliminating noise also eliminate fork hits(in more yrs than i can remember ive never had one with tabs).It isnt left bark on to hide it in case you have to chuck it/drop it etc,its left as is because the cost factor is nothing and there would be absolutely no point in workin ur ass off on something you may have to chuck.A few have mentioned leaving it in as natural state as possible so it blends into the ground,while an excellent point,it becomes mute when you have to explain to a gamekeeper what you are doing in the pens,private property in the first place???
tabs must be a regional thing then,because I remember my grandfathers catapult being made of willow with leather ears as he called them,what we call tabs today.The ears on his catty came from the leather button eyes on the bottom of an old pair of braces,these are lashed to the fork with garden twine and the squares tied thru the button hole.why tabs in the first place?for one they are a silent means of shooting in comparisson to other methods,but more so,because a tabbed catty is the easiest catty for anyone to pic up and shoot,(Im sure anyone who has shot a tabbed catty will concur)
My thoughts on a specific poaching catapult havent changed,if you have put the food on the table in an unlawfull manner using ie a black widow,that is your poaching catty,if you used a flippinout,that is ur poaching catty and so forth
however I do agree that there is a poacher STYLE of catapult,which until its done what its intended is still a catapult styled along the lines of a poaching catapult 
I
do apologise but as i type this I forgot who mentioned the Beanshooter,but to me,the beanshooter is an iconic US catapult,a capable hunter and as American as apple pie,im of the belief that if you are looking for an American poacher type catty you need not look any further than the humble beanshooter

just my 2 pennies


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Thanks for that Marcus. I agree with what you said. If someone ever asked me the question everyone on this thread seems to be answering, I'd say "bean-shooter", too. But I was unclear in my original intention. I was intending to create a certain style of carving a slingshot that was INTENDED specifically for covert hunting. A new style. I wasn't searching for something that already existed.

This is something that I now wish I'd never started.


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## marcus1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> Thanks for that Marcus. I agree with what you said. If someone ever asked me the question everyone on this thread seems to be answering, I'd say "bean-shooter", too. But I was unclear in my original intention. I was intending to create a certain style of carving a slingshot that was INTENDED specifically for covert hunting. A new style. I wasn't searching for something that already existed.
> 
> This is something that I now wish I'd never started.


I totally get what you mean Bill and think its something that is of interest to people,if you had defined poacher STYLE I think you would have got the answers you wanted mate.As a side note ive seen the perfect American poacher style and im surprised no one has bought them up,the slingshots of Blueskeen,,bark on,natural state,he can make one in minutes,lol I know a few lads use excactly the type that Blueskeen makes,so with the beanshooter and Blues catties,i think all bases are more than covered ,but thas just my opinion


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

So that's it, then. It's been done perfectly. . . . no room for improvement in efficiency, concealability, ergonomics?


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

those are sweet


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## marcus1 (Dec 5, 2012)

Dayhiker said:


> So that's it, then. It's been done perfectly. . . . no room for improvement in efficiency, concealability, ergonomics?


when i say bases are covered i mean as a whole ie beanshooter,skeens catties,of course size,ergonomics are down to the user,youve made more superb naturals than anyone i know Bill,if anyone can figure it out,itll be u mate


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

marcus1 said:


> Dayhiker said:
> 
> 
> > So that's it, then. It's been done perfectly. . . . no room for improvement in efficiency, concealability, ergonomics?
> ...


 :cookie:


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## halbart (Jan 23, 2013)

Toddy said:


> I know I don't post much on here, but I always enjoy reading the site. As a 50 something life-long English poacher, for me it's about simple. I make all my frames for poaching from multiplex because it is cheap. It is also very easy and quick to make another frame identical to the last one, should I have to throw one away quickly. My frames are only sanded to 120 grit and have no finish applied to them.
> So for me there is no such thing as an English poaching frame, that is just their intended use.


Toddy has it right on the nail. I,ve known a few poachers back in the day and what they used was cheap and disposable.
Dayhiker is looking for something that doesn't,t exist ( like the burglars bag that has SWAG written on it. Lol)


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## crypter27 (Oct 13, 2010)

its simple,but effective! :nerd:


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## ash (Apr 23, 2013)

I'll join in on this dredge because I like the creative path (as opposed to re-creative) that DH started on.

If I was commissioned to produce an American Poacher, my outside view would be formed by a combination of:

1. logical consideration of the function (what is involved in the act of poaching, etc)

2. the folk lore of what makes things distinctively American

Part one means a Natural fork, heavy bands, possibly tabs of some kind or maybe rings, concealable or disposable, quickly/easily fabricated

Part two for me (as an outsider who's watched much American TV and cinema) means a distinctively American wood (rock maple, mesquite, etc), flat bands, and a look/finish that screams rural America, ie a bare whittled surface texture.

Considerations to narrow down the definition:

1. Would an American Poacher be disposable or crafted with pride and made concealable to use another day? I think we all know which of those is the fabled American way.

2. Tabs, I don't know... but if it was to have things like tabs or wraps, paracord seems thoroughly Modern American to me, tooled leather being Classic American.

3. Maybe some practical innovation like Winnie's pouch clip pictured below.

Here are some examples that fit with my line of thinking:

A personal tool, made to last, made with pride.










Imagine something like this with the whittled/scalloped surface and a nice smooth finish:


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)




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## halbart (Jan 23, 2013)

Dayhiker said:


> Thanks for that Marcus. I agree with what you said. If someone ever asked me the question everyone on this thread seems to be answering, I'd say "bean-shooter", too. But I was unclear in my original intention. I was intending to create a certain style of carving a slingshot that was INTENDED specifically for covert hunting. A new style. I wasn't searching for something that already existed.
> 
> This is something that I now wish I'd never started.


Sorry DH. I, too, thought you were looking for an existing 'poachers catty'. Sounds like Marcus has a good line on this.


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