# Optimal projectile size.



## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

What I'm thinking is; we should discuss the best sizes of ammo (penetration/ impact-trauma) so we can have the best chances of killing specific game. And I picture having two or three sizes of ammo, and having an optimum band set-up for each ... any takers?


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

I shoot 8mm the most, on all small game. i even take rabbits with them, even with heavy bands and heavy ammo i wouldnt try shoot rabbits at more than 20 yards, and i alway have a dog to do the pick up on injured stuff, when you think you can take rabbits out with a 177cal air rifle, the bands ive been using with the 8mm is Dans (ZDP) they are very fast and with the 8mm they take rabbits with ease, jeff


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

shot in the foot said:


> I shoot 8mm the most, on all small game. i even take rabbits with them, even with heavy bands and heavy ammo i wouldnt try shoot rabbits at more than 20 yards, and i alway have a dog to do the pick up on injured stuff, when you think you can take rabbits out with a 177cal air rifle, the bands ive been using with the 8mm is Dans (ZDP) they are very fast and with the 8mm they take rabbits with ease, jeff


How's the penetration, and impact; do you find you can lose a lot of meat etc.?


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

The game is a lot better than using 44cal lead, that bruises the meat, and in game birds it can make the meat not worth bothering with, with crows and woodies the 8mm go right the way in, it all depends at what range you shoot them at, with rabbits i shoot many out the car window onthe farm lane, and most are took at 5 to 10 yards so its head shots, i have had rabbits what the dogs had to collect were the balls gone right through the neck, i wouldnt shoot a rabbit from behind, jeff


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

That's lovely, Jeff; just what I wanted ... so you find the 8mm get through feathers just fine?


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> That's lovely, Jeff; just what I wanted ... so you find the 8mm get through feathers just fine?


I use them on pheasants, i take them out the car windows aswell, Martin uses the 8mm balls as well, you can get a 1000 for about £10 off ebay with the postage, jeff


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

I assume you're using 8mm lead, not 8mm steel, right ?


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Darb said:


> I assume you're using 8mm lead, not 8mm steel, right ?


No steel balls, been using them a while, i did sometimes use 11mm lead , but ive stuck to the 8mm now, ive had no problem using them, jeff


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

How did you find the 11mm? any problems? and don't you find the 8mm isn't enough damage, for such a big quarry? Don't mean to bother you, I would like this to be a reference for others too.


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> How did you find the 11mm? any problems? and don't you find the 8mm isn't enough damage, for such a big quarry? Don't mean to bother you, I would like this to be a reference for others too.


You loose the power using 11mm with the faster bands cos of the weight, if you get a block of polystyrene the 8mm go,s in a lot further, you may laugh at this, but the way i check bands and ammo is get a unopened tin of bean set it up at 10 yards and if the ammo gp,s clean through it will do the job, Dans fast bands go through 2 tin together, jeff


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Very nice, thanks; if anyone else uses other sizes of ammo, please speak up now.


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

I think it might be helpful if our bandset vendors were to post recommended optimal ammo sizes for their bandsets, based on their draw weight.

Some hypothetical examples:

Bandset: Fat Bob's "Ratkiller" bands 
Draw: Wide tapered single latex 0.030" thickness, roughly 12 lbs
Optimal Ammo, Target: 3/8 - 7/16" steel, or 3/8" lead
Optimal Ammo, Hunting: 3/8" lead

Bandset: Joe Blow's "Double Punch" Bands
Draw: Tapered double-latex, 16 lbs total
Optimal Ammo, Target: 7/16 - 1/2" steel, or 3/8 - 7/16" lead
Optimal Ammo, Hunting: 3/8 - 7/16" lead

Bandset: Fat Bob's "Deerslayer" Bands
Draw: Quadruple theraband gold, 50 lbs total
Optimal Ammo, Target: 5/4 - 5/3" steel, or 5/8 - 1" lead
Optimal Ammo, Hunting: 3/4" lead


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## frogman (Nov 11, 2010)

For me the projectile weight and size have to correspond with the thickness of the bandsx the length of the draw...


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## John-Boy (Oct 15, 2010)

I found that using double theraband gold hunter style bands and .38 steel is a good choice for close range rats, pigeons and other vermin (within 12 yards) i have used .44 lead shot at this range and find it a bit OTT, i will resort to it for rabbits and longer ranges only, or if shootin squirrels at close range as they're very tough little critters!!


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

.375 lead works very well with TexExpress bands, Flatband .050" latex and 5x5x5 red chains. Hand slap is a good indicator that your shot is too small for the bands you are using, plenty of knock down power for small game at reasonable ranges with hits in vital areas.
Philly


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## stelug (Feb 6, 2010)

Rather all my kills had been with 8,6 mm lead balls. I have shooted them with four strands 1740 dankung's tubes, with 3>2 cm tapered double gold thera, with green thera tubes and now with the tapered ZDP's bands wich seems to me extremely fast. With any fathered quarry the 8,6 mm lead will go directly through chest, luggs, internal organs often find his way out from the other side. All very clen kills. Sorry have no experience with 8,6 and fury preys but in the past I remember round river peebles as the best projectiles.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Six squirells in the last two months with Tex Express bands on various flips with .375" (36 cal) lead swaged muzzle loader balls. Good penitration but you need head shots or front shoulder shots to anchor them. Much tougher than bunnies to kill. Hit any place else, they run off. So, stay within a range you are accurate in to insure humane clean kills.
Philly


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

frogman said:


> For me the projectile weight and size have to correspond with the thickness of the bandsx the length of the draw...


I agree with you frogman.. All of my bands I test with different weighted ammo to see which delivers the most energy based on the velocity level said bands can produce with the ideal ammo weight.

Like the slingshot I used to kill that rabbit functions best within the 12-15 gram weight ammo, 1/2 oz being I deal for those particular bands. Then other bandsets perform with similar speed with heavier ammo such as 21 grams to 1 ounce, those are the heaviest shooters I use.

My intention is to down the prey quickly and heavy ammo does the job well..


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## Darb (Sep 14, 2010)

The only thing I can think of that's commensurate with a 1oz slingshot slug is either a deranged postal worker sporting a rifle on a neighbor's rooftop (and even then only if he's not looking in your direction), or a rabid rottweiler about to spring on a small child. One ounce will mangle anything smaller (bird, rabbit), and it's too slow for anything bigger, further away and/or more well protected.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

Darb said:


> The only thing I can think of that's commensurate with a 1oz slingshot slug is either a deranged postal worker sporting a rifle on a neighbor's rooftop (and even then only if he's not looking in your direction), or a rabid rottweiler about to spring on a small child. One ounce will mangle anything smaller (bird, rabbit), and it's too slow for anything bigger, further away and/or more well protected.


The heavier projectiles will travel well up to 25 yards with a strong banded slingshot and I only use 1 oz weighted with animals larger than a hare i.e. raccoons or possums , foxes and related sizes and in close to 10 yards is best.

I usually use projectiles within the 11-16 ounce variety and of the heavier I have found 3/4 ounce to be more efficient than a 1 ounce slug.

There's a guy we know who hunts with a milbro catapult using the 6mm black square rubber and he uses 16mm lead balls for all prey and a 16 mm lead ball is roughly 2 or 3 grams shy of 1 ounce and this guy took a duck at 50 meters. He even made a video of that kill with a 16 mm lead ball and you could see that ball in flight to crunch that duck's neck.

So there's no arguement there about a heavy slug getting some long range when needed.

I'm not very much into theory and what I usually say is something based on both personal experience and witnessing others doing such things. I dont buy into the whole measuring joules or fps to know a projectile's energy as its best tested on living matter, i.e. how well does it kill and what would it take to do that same to different sized prey,


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

[/quote]

The heavier projectiles will travel well up to 25 yards with a strong banded slingshot and I only use 1 oz weighted with animals larger than a hare i.e. raccoons or possums , foxes and related sizes and in close to 10 yards is best.

I usually use projectiles within the 11-16 ounce variety and of the heavier I have found 3/4 ounce to be more efficient than a 1 ounce slug.

There's a guy we know who hunts with a milbro catapult using the 6mm black square rubber and he uses 16mm lead balls for all prey and a 16 mm lead ball is roughly 2 or 3 grams shy of 1 ounce and this guy took a duck at 50 meters. He even made a video of that kill with a 16 mm lead ball and you could see that ball in flight to crunch that duck's neck.

So there's no arguement there about a heavy slug getting some long range when needed.

I'm not very much into theory and what I usually say is something based on both personal experience and witnessing others doing such things. I dont buy into the whole measuring joules or fps to know a projectile's energy as its best tested on living matter, i.e. how well does it kill and what would it take to do that same to different sized prey,
[/quote]

Living matter is what I wanted to know about, mainly penetration over pressure. If people are having trouble, un-clean kills etc. I'd like them to reference the thread, to see if there is a certain ammo size which best for the animal. The fps can be addressed when they still have trouble.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

[/quote]

Living matter is what I wanted to know about, mainly penetration over pressure. If people are having trouble, un-clean kills etc. I'd like them to reference the thread, to see if there is a certain ammo size which best for the animal. The fps can be addressed when they still have trouble.
[/quote]

Hi Whipcrackedeadbunny,

Ok I will give some feeback in this regard and its the only reason I have stayed with heavier ammo.

Why I choose heavier weight vs lighter lead like 44 cal.

In August of this year for the first time I tried lead balls for rabbit hunting, what I used were some 44 cal lead balls I bought from fish. According to him and some of his amigos, _the 44 cal lead ball is the perfect all around killer_, ok granted you always hit vitals i.e. head shots even smalled lead will do this.

_*My field experience: *We hunted in a private orchard and were there in the afternoon it was very hot that day which meant most rabbits or jackrabbits would be hiding in the shade to avoid the heat. The slingshot I was using was a antler fork chained band set with the same set up used for my last rabbit stone kill. Only this time I had various 44 cal lead balls and some hexnuts and a few marbles to flush out game. My first walk on a trail I saw a rabbit in the shade and I took a shot at this rabbit with a 44 cal lead ball simply because I was told this 44 cal lead was so bad ass lol Ok I took an excited shot at this rabbit and missed the head hitting its ribs, the lead ball easily penetrated as I noticed when it impacted. The poor rabbit was still able to run enough to go down a rabbit hole covered in black berry vines.

I ran out of these 44 cal lead balls trying for other rabbits that were over 30 yards away, sure their trajectory was flat but after just losing a rabbit with these I was actually glad I was out of that ammo. I missed with the hexnuts too, then when I was almost about to call it a day my brother in law said lets give it another go and I proceeded to collect stones for ammo as I have always done years before.
These stones weighed approx 12 - 14 grams with one larger stone weighing near 3/4 oz 21 grams, came accross a last rabbit and this was 25 yards away, it ran as I took my shot the with heavy stone, because it ran it gave me its back.

The stone connected with its back and broke its back which meant I needed to immediately finish with a head shot and did with a lighter stone to its head. My point: Would I have shot the first rabbit with a heavier projectile and it connected at its ribs, such as the stone that hit the rabbit I did kill. The hydrostatic shock alone from such a projectile at a body shot like the ribs would have killed the rabbit dead in its tracks. Flip this around now, would I have hit that rabbit in the back with the 44 cal lead ball it may have run off to die like the first loss._

My preference then is on impact shock over pentration this is my own experience. I dont believe this is a rule as this is what works with my brand of slingshots.

A stone tends to dump all of its energy on impact so it kills by shock/trauma, the hydrostatic shock it creates will kill with the accidental body shot or completely cripple to be able to have a quick finish as opposed to a running dying animal with a penetrating projectile.

Also my father once killed a rabbit with a body shot using a stone and tubular bands, the stone hit a high shoulder and the rabbit just dropped dead. Upon examination it was revealed that the shock from the stone stopped the rabbit's heart. 
If you dont favor stones but like the shockwave effect? Then you can get this also with 1/2 inch hexnuts or larger steel balls like 14 mm or the 5/8 steel balls that frogman has been using.

Again this formula works for my slintgshots which operate best with medium to heavy ammo and I rely on the shock trauma effect more than lead penetration to make clean kills. Remember its all in the design of your slingshot, its bands and what they are capable of handling. My chained band slingshots were made with the intent to kill by using stones yet can function with lead balls and heavier steelies.

For me with these chained band hunting set-ups the ideal projectile is from 12-16 grams for taking rabbits and larger, I am not a dead eye like some of the other guys on here who take bunnies with small lead and steel.

So what I have done is largely proportionate to the slingshots I use and may not be the best thing for other hunting set-ups. 
I admit to not have a larger experience with the other more modern slingshot styles to better understand their function with different projectiles.

I hope this is of some help to you..

Nico


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Nico
I use 9/16"steel or .53 lead.The steel will penetrate into a rabbit.If you hit a squirrel in the ribs it will push the hide thru the near side ribs with a big hole and the hide will rebound out and not leave a mark on the squirrel,but it will kill him dead fast.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

Hi Jaybird,

Do you know any good sources for 9/16 steel which are reasonably priced? I'm not as experienced with steel balls but it does appeal to me, and what I know of steel balls for hunting is based on other hunter's field experiences. To which I thank you for your feedback in this as I'm still learning about steel balls and lead for that matter, I mostly use stones.

Nico


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Nico
I get mine from Royal Steel Ball in Ill.that everyone talks about.The last time I bought them,I bought 400lbs for the tournament.They were $1.00 a pound.When you buy a larger amount they are cheaper.How many you have to buy to get the better price I don't know.One time I bought 50lb and with shipping to Pa. it was $69.00.The balls are nice and clean,no oil or dirt.I havn't bought any for a couple of years.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Nico,I bought 15# minimum of 3/8" steel from Royal for $38.50 delivered to my door.
Philly


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

Thanks a lot Nico, that's perfect.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

OK, I do little hunting so I have avoided weighing in. Frankly, you lot are the experts and I'd tip my hat to your experience. If you have an interest in the technical side of slingshot terminal ballistics, then you may find my recent blog entry insightful; not necessarily as a child teaching grandad which particular eggs to suck, but as a child with fresh observations on how a duck's egg differs from a chicken's.

http://slingshotforum.com/blog/11/entry-238-terminal-ballistics-of-slingshots/

Seeing as I I'm not aware that slingshot projectile terminal ballistics have been studied in this level of detail before, it's not particularly well written and some of it may fly over your heads.







I have tried to keep it moderately math free and understandable. I've eliminated all the calculus, but some charts and simple predictive equations remain to illustrate the principles.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

whipcrackdeadbunny said:


> Thanks a lot Nico, that's perfect.


Your welcome W,

As you can see some things are not predictable as Jaybird said the larger 9/16 steel balls will penetrate a rabbit and this has been his experience yet with the squirrel's tough hide this is not so yet all the internal damage occured.
Of course Jaybird makes some very powerful slingshots from .050 latex and the man knows his stuff with matching this elastic to heavier projectiles









I know that when the slingshot is powerful enough this can happen with larger projectiles, I even once put a 6/8 stone into the chest of a feral pigeon. So the creature and its hide can make a difference in terms of a larger projectile causing penetration. In reality then despite the fact of penetration on impact with these heavier projectiles, its the shock/trauma of impact that kills so effectively and the hydrostatic shock caused by these heavier projectiles can damage other parts of the prey's system which wont be visible until examined.

Nico


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

I'm not sure hydrostatic shock applies to slingshot projectiles at these low velocities and energies. I think severe blunt trauma and cardiovascular shock, possibly combined with paralysis and unconsciousness incapacitates or kills.


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## stelug (Feb 6, 2010)

in my experience even 8 - 9 mm ball, if in lead not steel, will cause a large lethal trauma in most preys. In my thought, but I may be wrong because I judge from personal experience, this is due to the fact that a small but relatively havvy projectile propelled from strong bands like double gold thera or four 1745 dankung will easly penetrate any kind of hide or feathered skyn, then ricocet between the internal organs when hitting muscles, tendons or bones. So the amount of damages is bigger than the simple wound inflicted. In case of trepassing shot the damage will be minor and the quarry could still have energy for try to escape.


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## frogman (Nov 11, 2010)

Right on Nico, when you are in the field and forrest, and the quarry is high up in the trees and the shots are dificult, all the cronigraphs,special,ammo,Research, and Testing go out the window. You just have to step up and make something happen.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

ZDP-189 said:


> I'm not sure hydrostatic shock applies to slingshot projectiles at these low velocities and energies. I think severe blunt trauma and cardiovascular shock, possibly combined with paralysis and unconsciousness incapacitates or kills.


Hydrostatic shock applies to all projectiles including low velocity like slingshots and bows.

Hydro refers to the bodily fluids and includes the nervous system of all vertebrates mammal or otherwise large enough to have a circulatory system. Hydrostatic is the shockwave of impact of a projectile on the fluids in a vertebrates system.
It means that the impact of a projectile from a heavy projectile at a low velocity or even a medium projectile at a higher velocity will have a shockwave affect on the creatures nervous system. A nervous system relies on its individual neurons to relay chemical messages throughout the creatures system whic is rulled to a large extent by its spinal cord that affects the entire of a nervous system.

Think in terms of the analogy of throwing a rock in a pond? It will always cause a ripple effect and something similar happens when a projectile meets with the fluids in the system of a vertebrate.

More examples? That last rabbit I killed, when I skinned it, the stone punched a hole in the head and upon skinning I found that the shoulders were bruised. This is the hydrostatic shock in effect showing that the impact shockwaved past the impact point.

This happens to people who fall, in which parts of their body that werent impacted hurt.


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## BaneofSmallGame (Sep 22, 2010)

Okay, there have been a lot of good posts so far here, some off experiences in the field, some of knowledge, testing, and data. I won't comment on many of those before mine but I must say good post about the rabbit hunting Nico. Very understandable and informative. Oftentimes we learn best when in the field.

In my case, I base everything off of evidence and observations through my given senses. But I have to give some input here on the transfer of energy when a projectile fails to enter the flesh, causing hydrostatic shot and death.

I have a total of 2 squirrel kills in the short time I've been into slingshots and hunting with them. Bot kills were because of traumatic blows that didn't penetrate. Kill one was a 1/2" hex nut high on the squirrel's back that knocked it right off the tree trunk to the ground where it died almost instantly. I basically crushed it's spinal cord or something because it immediately contorted his body and caused him to tumble off (not very high) and die swiftly. No penetration, no wound, but bleeding from the mouth and screwed up eyeballs (somehow).

My next kill was a 3/8" steel ball to the back of a squirrels head at 12 meters, no entry but death after scurrying a foot or two. Upon further review of the carcass it basically blasted the eyeballs out, bled from the mouth, and seemed to have damaged the skull. Sorry I'm being a bit graphic here. So yes, I would say with a well placed hit and the right projectile and speed combination, shock and trauma can kill any small game animal.

Just my input from my experiences. Hope it helped feed the database on this type of argument.

Cheers - John


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## jmplsnt (Jan 1, 2010)

Good experiences John and I think you should keep in mind when comparing your squirrels to Nico's numerous (yes, I'm jealous, for they are GONE from my area) that a squirrel is a much tougher animal with a very strong skin. I can see penetrating a rabbit's skin or at least breaking with a squirrel having no obvious outside damage.

Nico, I knew stones were devastating but the bruising of the shoulder meat from a very obvious and most deadly head shot really takes it up a notch. That's a great illustration and I can say I've learned something good today.

All, I am picking up good stones on a daily basis while I'm home from the sea (offshore again now) and can hit soda cans out to 20 yards with the better ones and use the junk ones to good effect on cans out to 10 yards. I carry some in my pocket all the time now when I'm out and about and when and if I ever get a shot on a rabbit it will be with a stone either from my natural or perhaps DH's pocket ash boardcut, which has proven deadly accurate with a Walmart 64/332. I'll have more to say about this bandset later on, once we reach port and I've had some time to catch up on a few things here on the boat.

Finally, Bane, I am holding back the larger of the pebbles you sent me for a rainy day......that one has death all over it and if that's in any way representative of what you have to shoot there you're sitting on a gold mine. That's one glorious pebble.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

A rock is a quick kill, assuming the rock hit is solid, but it is much harder to make a solid hit with a rock than it is with a lead ball. Also large rocks, even though they deliver much trauma, also glance off badly when not dead on, leaving game to run off with trauma and die later. I have never hit a rabbit or squirrel solid with a lead ball and lost it, but I have with a rock that has hit and glanced off, and the lead would not have. There is nothing wrong with hunting with rocks and they are deadly. There have been many rabbits and squirrels killed with rocks. However rocks are just not as accurate as lead balls, therefore I don't think they are the best choice of ammo, if you have access to lead shot.

As far as lead being poisonous, when I was young I ate a ton of game shot with shotguns. I ingested a lot more lead than you will from game shot from a slingshot using a lead ball. I am not saying that lead is not toxic, but not as bad in adults as in children. It might be a good idea while cleaning an animal to trim the meat adjacent to the shot wound. -- Tex-Shooter


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

Tex is correct in what he has said about rocks on all points, they are only as effective as your accuracy, and the rocks you use and what you select helps i.e. shape etc.

But as Tex said if your not accurate you can make glancing shots with any kind of ammo not just rocks but more true of larger ammo such as 7/8 stones. I rarely glance, I'll either miss all together or it will connect solid and instant death








The moral of this story is that rocks arent for everyone they will always vary in shape and weight, knowing how to use rocks takes practice and discipline. I have been using rocks since I was a snot nosed kid well over 25 years of using rocks as ammo and I know they have their range limitations for best accuracy.

Never the less as has been stated rocks are terribly devastating ammo on small game every bit the stopping power of lead.
However if your not comfortable using rocks then use what is more comfortable for you be it, lead balls, steel balls or sabot bullets.

I will go on the record to say that it is highly admirable and I respect those who can scrounge lead and melt it down and cast their own lead ball ammo using your environment to your own benefit is at the heart of survival. Way to go on this Jump and anyone else who does it this way. But for me I have had far too many pollutants in my life I grew up in smog ridden Los Angeles and I dont need to pollute myself further by casting lead. Think I'll just buy it from others or make trades for it.

Stones will always be my staple of ammo but I will and do experiment with different ammo.
I am as I said experimenting with some 14mm steel balls I bought and I will experiment with9/16 steel that Jaybird likes to use as I understand 9/16 is 14.24 mm steel a little more heft than just 14mm.

Some anecdotes of my recent stoning adventures with my chained antler slingshot:

Yesterday we were 3 stories up on the roof checking out the air systems and I had my antler chained slingshot with me and some stones and steelies. One of the guys who knew I killed that rabbit wanted to see my accuracy with the slingshot. I saw some doves feeding at the disposal area and they were approx 35 yards away and we were 3 stories high. Well I took one shot and missed by several feet but took a deep breath and took one of the rounder stones and shot again this time the stone shattered just to the left of the dove and it wasnt still when I shot at it moving about feeding. I stopped shooting cos if I managed to kill it how would I get to it? Being so high up and guys with forklifts could have seen it, the guy was shocked at the accuracy of the homemade slingshot with rubberbands and stones for ammo lol Well another guy was with us who never saw me use this and commented that I was dangerous lol I said only to rabbits and other small game


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

frogman said:


> Right on Nico, when you are in the field and forrest, and the quarry is high up in the trees and the shots are dificult, all the cronigraphs,special,ammo,Research, and Testing go out the window. You just have to step up and make something happen.


Right you are frogman.. When its go time, its go time and there's no time to think about what you can theoretically do. Its just sometihing you will find out by trying.


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## jmplsnt (Jan 1, 2010)

Excellent illustration Nico, and Frogman is absolutely right about just getting it done when the time is right.

I am going to try the rice-fed pigeons on my way home in another 3 1/2 weeks if I pass through at the right time. It's past time to put something in the freezer, and I plan on doing it with stones this time.

This is one of the best threads I've seen on any forum about this topic!


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Great thread!


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

jmplsnt said:


> Excellent illustration Nico, and Frogman is absolutely right about just getting it done when the time is right.
> 
> I am going to try the rice-fed pigeons on my way home in another 3 1/2 weeks if I pass through at the right time. It's past time to put something in the freezer, and I plan on doing it with stones this time.
> 
> This is one of the best threads I've seen on any forum about this topic!


Thats right brother!

In these real life situations all the theory in the world is tossed out the window.. Here's a good analogy of real life vs theory and its a fact that these situations have happend over many years.

The Barroom Brawler vs the Karate Guy: When the Barroom Brawler starts a fight with Mr. Karate, the karate guy is mentally trying to decide what move to use and what stance to drop into to execute his moves.

All the while he's mentally done so the brawler either just blind sided him with his mug of beer or a bottle of whiskey and then gave him a coupe de gras with a chair over his back. Gee I bet they didnt teach how to handle this situation back at the dojo did they?

The point: You wont know for sure unless you tried something and found out what worked, and no amount of theory or charts, or gelatine and chronographs will make a world of difference in these instances.

How long has it been said in the many catapult forums that square rubber is too slow or that surgical tubing is not deadly enough to kill? Yet look at all the milbro kills with the squares, and look at all the impressive long range kills with tubes that guys like frogman are making!

Thats my stance I will offer what I know and if it helps someone then cool and if it didnt then your welcome to try other things because in the end you have to do it for yourself.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

What we all want to avoid is misinformation being passed around till it's accepted as fact. The trouble with theory is it's untested in the real world but the trouble with real world hunting lore is it may have worked for one person but that may have been a fluke. With firearms, the theory and testing is done to death, but with slingshots very little fundamntal research has been done. We need more theory backed up by experimentation and experience to understand what the processes are and how they interract; essntially a framework to hang the real world experiences from. The time honoured way is to shoot whatever is to hand, to try out what we've heard has worked for others and then to learn by trial and error. I've no problem with that at all, but when we have a comprehensive understanding of the physics, designers will be better able to actually engineer a set of desirable characteristics. Then the rest of us can do what we do best: slinging ammo downrange.

The last thing we want is factions who swear by chinese tubes vs those who would only consider flatbands or solids. Nor do we want some arbitary calibres to be considered the universal standard calibre without anyone being able to explain why each set up works as it does or what combination might yield better results. There really is more than one way to skin this particular cat.

Remember, it's all progress, no matter what approach we take.


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

jmplsnt said:


> This is one of the best threads I've seen on any forum about this topic!


these guys are my heros ...


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

Well my closing statement on this thread..

The slingshot is a simple primitive rubber powered, low velocity projectile weapon that has been used successfully 150 years past with simple stones for hunting.

My grandfather did it and used red innertubes now he's in his mid 80s and my great grandfather too, and now you have options of good uniformity lead balls, steel balls. Hey it works all the systems work whether your a rock chucker like me or a lead or steel slinger thats your choice. The rubber you use well thats on you too, who cares what style if you like it you use it.

Who cares? Its what you use that works for you out in the real world.. Why complicate the simplicity of such an impressive weapon with "ballistics" or some set of standards? Its not a firearm and thats its beauty, a forked branch with rubberbands attached to a leather sling draw it back and give that baby a go. I promise it will not let you down if you give it a chance.


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

To each his own.I have yet to find my perfect set up but am willing to try everything out there to find it. I've tried Thera, gum, single and double latex and red 5x5x5rubber bands. 3/8 steel, lead in .375, .44, marbles, stones and other steel up to .50 cal. They will all kill small game at reasonable ranges with good shots. As to what is best, for now Tex Express bands and .375 lead or .44 lead seems to be my goto setup. I have 7 squirrels this season with this combo. I have missed many and unfortunately had two run off with misplaced shots but that can happen and has with a .22 cal rifle. Squirrels are very tough customers, I dont have any rabbits in my immediate area but I am sure my current setup would be more than addequate for them. So, good for now. As my accuracy improves beyond my 15 yard limit, I will go up in ammo size to compensate. It's a never ending learning curve. 
Philly
Philly


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## jmplsnt (Jan 1, 2010)

Philly, if you are taking squirrels I think you'd find rabbits a joke. They are very easy to kill and I've only lost one with a slingshot. In fact, I have never had one move out of its tracks when shot with .44 or .50 lead round balls and I took them out to 25 yards. They are nowhere close to the toughness of a squirrel and I think much easier to hit as they are larger, on the ground, and don't move most of the time. I know what it's like to not have any rabbits and it stinks because to me they are the ultimate slingshot quarry, perfectly suited to the weapon.

I can say I'm down to three go-to sets, those being the red 32/555, amber 32/777, and the Walmart 64/332 for my pocket shooters. I haven't killed anything with any of these but I have no doubts of their effectiveness based on their power compared to my old tube setups.

Also I would like to state there was a somewhat recent thread by dhansen featuring a group of rural North Carolina men who gather and shoot every Wednesday night. There was one picture of their slingshots which showed them in pretty good detail and it almost looked like they were using black butyle innertube rubbers. I knew an old man when I was a child who hunted and killed rabbits with stones using this sorry crud rubber, so even those would work in a bind. I wish I could go back in time and show some interest in him and his craft and perhaps have been taught by a true old-timer. If he could kill with black inner tube rubber I can only imagine what he could have done with chains or tubes. Anyway, like Nico says in the end it's a fork, two elastics, a leather piece, and some sort of ammo. Don't we have it good to have all these options?


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## philly (Jun 13, 2010)

Jamie, I ran a brace of Beagles for about eight years and shot many cottontails, they truly are easy to kill. I once killed one with a thrown rock when I was a kid. I have to drive upstate Ny to get any rabbit hunting now a days. Out here on Long Island, the Red foxes and Hawks keep them pretty thinned out. I am still trying to get my first kill with the 5X5X5 chains on my natural, but the local squizzers are on to me now and are running before the porch door closes. Getting cold here very early this year, 13 degrees last Tuesday so not much chance to practice.

I have been duck hunting the last couple weeks with the 11-87 Rem 12 Ga. Shot a couple birds but it has been slow, weather coming in tomorrow and will be up early and after them. I will have my sling with me as well. 
Philly


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