# Hathcock target sniper



## erlkonig

receviced it last night.










I found this catty surface full of air pocokets and voids, some place had protrude sharp edge, I cover it with glue to protect band set.










10m 3/8" bb to a pop can very accurate. after like40 shots move to next distance found.........










This is not a result of forkhit 3/8" bbb does not have this knid of power.



















repair it by using 2 part adhesive.



















Nice design and accurate .........

PS. this one actually a free gift for someone, but by mail processing error ended up in my hand. vendor is going provide a new one for me, and I also ordered a new catty from the vendor, a happy ending







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## mckee

sorry to hear that ive not got one myself


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## Bugar

erlkonig said:


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No way would I repair=RETURN= is the word


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## srs45

yep, got mine the other day, it has similar issues, lots of sharp edges around where the bands go, loads of air pockets









I ended up sanding and wet/dry papering all the rough edges using a pen to get in the tube holes, air bubbles I'll have to learn to live with.

But to give a balanced opinion they are comfy and nice to hold though. I tried mine OTF but they work much better TTF as the elastic is much closer to the hand and gives better control.


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## maljo

That looks bad,- I'm surprised because I bought one six months ago & was pleased with the quality: not perfect but only minor blemishes that had no effect on usability. 
I shoot it OTT 'cause I can't aim shooting through & it's my favourite catty for comfort & it gives me the best accuracy I can get.


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## erlkonig

G10 is not better than wood.


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## harpersgrace

Did you contact Bill? I know he does sometimes get seconds perhaps yours go mixed up with one of those....that would have been the first thing I would have done..


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## erlkonig

Just told him to look at this post,

don't want to blame him much , it is not a very expensvive hard hand work. composite material prone to have voids.


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## flippinout

erlkonig said:


> G10 is not better than wood.


That is defininitly NOT G10

G10 will have zero voids or airpockets. That is a polymer/plastic of some sort i would wager.


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## erlkonig

I though that was G10!

actually Fiber reinforced resin..


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## Bill Hays

It's like I've said before.
We give away a bunch of seconds a month and occasionally they'll get mixed up with the firsts when mailing (not often, but it does happen sometimes). Just PM me your address and I'll make sure you get what you ordered.... unless your's was supposed to be a second that is.


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## radray

I am sorry to hear about your HTS Erlkonig. Mine took some time to get used to, but it is comfortable and accurate. I have mine just about dialed in after playing around with the band lengths. I ordered an HTS along with a Polymer Ranger. The slingshots are well designed and accurate, but the finish needs some more work. Let's just say it is not what I expected. I was expecting it to be like the pictures in pocketpredator.com. My HTS looks like it was not completely filled in at the handle and the polymer Ranger could use more sanding. Now, I regret not spending more and just getting the G10 version of the Ranger. My HTS and Polymer Ranger is very functional, but it will not win any beauty awards. When I get pics, I will post it here so you can see.

Raymond


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## harpersgrace

Bill Hays said:


> It's like I've said before.
> We give away a bunch of seconds a month and occasionally they'll get mixed up with the firsts when mailing (not often, but it does happen sometimes). Just PM me your address and I'll make sure you get what you ordered.... unless your's was supposed to be a second that is.


If you have any seconds you're just dying to give away, I think I could find a good home for one







I dont shoot gangster but variety is the spice of life I've heard...


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## erlkonig

I knew knives maker and dealer they have second,

I just went the web site and place an order paid around $ 40


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## Bill Hays

Honestly... what I'm going to do is just throw all the seconds away in the scrap heap from now on.
All I ever get is grief from them anyway, with them occasionally getting confused with the firsts when mailing out, plus the fact that I've only had a handful of people ever thank us for them anyway... trying to do my small part in promoting slingshots isn't working out this way.

Being very real about it it costs me around $6.00 on average in mailing each one... over this last year I've given away over 150 slingshots for nothing in return, both firsts and seconds, to various people all over globe... that's over $900.00 I could have spent on something else.
Heck, I hired a girl to help with the mailings and help watch the twins about 6 weeks ago since my Wife was in and out of the hospital... the money I save can help a little to pay her!


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## NaturalFork

Bill Hays said:


> Honestly... what I'm going to do is just throw all the seconds away in the scrap heap from now on.
> All I ever get is grief from them anyway, with them occasionally getting confused with the firsts when mailing out, plus the fact that I've only had a handful of people ever thank us for them anyway... trying to do my small part in promoting slingshots isn't working out this way.
> 
> Being very real about it it costs me around $6.00 on average in mailing each one... over this last year I've given away over 150 slingshots for nothing in return, both firsts and seconds, to various people all over globe... that's over $900.00 I could have spent on something else.
> Heck, I hired a girl to help with the mailings and help watch the twins about 6 weeks ago since my Wife was in and out of the hospital... the money I save can help a little to pay her!


I predicted you might do this. And I dont blame you. It is tough. I know you had said you were sending me one of the seconds and I would have thanked you had I gotten it. But I understand how it is and am not going to complain about something I was getting for free anyway. I completely understand why you would stop sending the seconds out, I mean why would you?

Anyway I just sent you a PM because I want to buy a Ranger but kind of have a weird request. Let me know what you think.

p.s. I have nothing but respect for you. It is people like you who contribute to the sport in a positive way. Your universal fork design is one that should be sold in every major sporting goods store in the country. And I believe in time ... it will be.


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## NightKnight

Bill Hays said:


> Honestly... what I'm going to do is just throw all the seconds away in the scrap heap from now on.
> All I ever get is grief from them anyway, with them occasionally getting confused with the firsts when mailing out, plus the fact that I've only had a handful of people ever thank us for them anyway... trying to do my small part in promoting slingshots isn't working out this way.
> 
> Being very real about it it costs me around $6.00 on average in mailing each one... over this last year I've given away over 150 slingshots for nothing in return, both firsts and seconds, to various people all over globe... that's over $900.00 I could have spent on something else.
> Heck, I hired a girl to help with the mailings and help watch the twins about 6 weeks ago since my Wife was in and out of the hospital... the money I save can help a little to pay her!


That makes sense to me too. Why have the hassle with none of the thanks.


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## erlkonig

Humen error is greater than mechical design ! people do make mistake









What should I do with my " second" ETS??


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## radray

Bill,

You have awesome designs and your slingshots kick butt. You should not bother with the seconds. Mistakes just hurt you in the long run. Customers who paid hoping for a quality product and getting sent seconds accidentally will not be too thrilled. Also, they might think that is an actual representation of your actual product and that would be a shame because it will hurt you in the long run. I am sure most members here will be understanding, but some may not be. You are a good man Bill and many here in the forums know that. You already do contribute a lot to the slingshot community with your awesome designs, informative instructionals, entertaining trick shots and your expert advice here in the forum. Personally, I have learned a lot from you and have enjoyed your videos. I purchased your slingshots to show my support.

Mistakes occur and how you correct them will decide whether they will continue to support you. As a fan, I hope you focus on just providing to us your best work because most here have seen them in your videos and pictures. When funds permit, I will ask you to make me a seal sniper in black G10.

Raymond


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## kobe23

Sometimes I expect a perfect product (if it's a more consistent material), sometimes I would forgive new products for little flaw. If the SS is casted then it makes sense, the very saturated material does sometimes dries much faster than the movement of air bubbles. Just like how honey does.

Bill is the pioneer creator of the slingshot of his kind and contributed much to the community, lets show more love =D


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## Tex-Shooter

Bill - You are the man!!!! Keep up the good work. Many thanks for everything that you do for the sport. You are one of the slingshot sports greatest promoters and your slingshots are just fantastic. -- Tex-Shooter


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## harpersgrace

Bill Hays said:


> Honestly... what I'm going to do is just throw all the seconds away in the scrap heap from now on.
> All I ever get is grief from them anyway, with them occasionally getting confused with the firsts when mailing out, plus the fact that I've only had a handful of people ever thank us for them anyway... trying to do my small part in promoting slingshots isn't working out this way.
> 
> Being very real about it it costs me around $6.00 on average in mailing each one... over this last year I've given away over 150 slingshots for nothing in return, both firsts and seconds, to various people all over globe... that's over $900.00 I could have spent on something else.
> Heck, I hired a girl to help with the mailings and help watch the twins about 6 weeks ago since my Wife was in and out of the hospital... the money I save can help a little to pay her!


Can't say I blame you, too bad when you're doing something nice for people and only getting greif and no thanks for it, and sad for people who would like to try your product but wouldn't otherwise be able to do so....what I cant get is why people dont contact you first when they have a problem...Oh well...All the best to you and yours..


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## NoSugarRob

you should put a mark on the seconds ( to distinguish them from the firsts ) and sell them at a knock down price ?


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## M.J

Bill Hays said:


> Honestly... what I'm going to do is just throw all the seconds away in the scrap heap from now on.
> All I ever get is grief from them anyway, with them occasionally getting confused with the firsts when mailing out, plus the fact that I've only had a handful of people ever thank us for them anyway... trying to do my small part in promoting slingshots isn't working out this way.


That sucks, man. 
One of the main things I try to teach my kids is to be grateful. To say thank you and let people know they apprieciate it when someone does something for them.
I can't imagine any slingshot enthusiast getting one of your products in the mail at no charge and not, at least, saying "thanks Bill!"
Sounds like more headache than it's worth for you.


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## slingshot_sniper

This is my opinion and I learned from a mistake awhile ago,always contact the vendor first its the correct way to go about things.

In my case I quickly figured my post was not just and when I thought about the replies,why did you not contact Bill first? it dawned on me and made perfect sense.....and had to eat humble pie..made my apologies and that was that.

In fact when I look back now I feel my post was kinda vendor bashing, and I feel embarrassed thinking about it because had I contacted Bill first it would have been quickly ascertained as being a second and put right there and then and saved me any embarrassment.......so I figure now posting about a flaw in a product is not the first thing to do at least it is for me now.









Bill will always put things right......but you need to let him know by PM first he's the man he''l sort it out no problem.

I now have the deepest respect for Bill and fact is I only own Bills slingshots as they fit in with what I need plus I prefer G10 and or resin composites over wood anyway...that said the seal hunter with G10 core and diamond wood is on my hit list......hmmm! is diamond wood real wood? if so I don't mind a bit of wood


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## jskeen

Hey Bill;

I just wanted to let you know that I fully understand where you are with the issue of the second quality castings, and what to do with them. I've personally been there, done that a couple of times, both with handmade knives and with custom fountain pens. It just seems fundamentally wrong to destroy (and you gotta demill them, or they will still turn up to bite you, DAMHIKT) a fully usable, working product that it seems somebody would enjoy, because of a minor, fixable cosmetic issue.

We both know that we put our heart and soul into taking what we see in our minds eye and making it into something we can hold in our hands. When you first get bit by that bug of actually making something, from concept to first crude prototypes, to that first "That's what I was trying for!" finished product, to the later lovingly finished "special artists edition" and then finally when that warm glow of customer demand pushes us into looking at production methods, you finally have to face the reality that it's not a hobby or a recreational activity anymore, It's a business.

Businesses live and die on reputation. Having second quality products in circulation is a reputation killer. When somebody out there somewhere shows his buddy that "freebie" that he got from you, you can bet that even if the person you gave it to says "this was a freebie, he sells some that are much better quality" the person that sees it may hear and understand the words, but what is missing is that "wow, that's awesome, I gotta get me one of those" feeling that prompts them to go home and look up your webpage. If that crucial step is missing, the sale ain't gonna happen.

Bottom line is that it's your name out there attached to that frame, and long after the modest pleasure of having given somebody something that might have gone to waste has passed, that poor quality product is going to be representing YOU. By all means, promote the sport you love, be it martial arts, strength training, competitive shooting, or whatever by giving away products. That's part of the fun. But it's much smarter to give away fewer, first quality products than to have a bunch of (admittedly perfectly useable) ugly and or poorly finished items out there debasing your hard earned reputation for quality. I learned that the hard way with knives, and when pens quit being fun to make in and of themselves, I pretty much quit making them too, rather than reach that point. Now I make slingshots, and i still get to enjoy that middle of the night, wake up and think, "Hey, if I did so and so, i could......... gotta try that tomorrow when I get out to the shop" feeling. But if it don't work out, you can bet that it goes through the bandsaw and then into the kindling bucket.

Just my opinions of course, and you know what they say about those.

James


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## erlkonig

This case is going close, Bill contact me and wili provide a new one. and I aslo ordered a Seal sniper from him .

Final, A HAPPY ENDING!


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## kobe23

Happy we are, I am planning to buy something from Bill too in the near future ^_____^


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## radray

I am glad for the happy ending. I had no doubt that Bill will resolve any issues you may have. I am sure you will enjoy the seal sniper. Today I shot my polymer Ranger and HTS. I am still saving up for the Seal Sniper to add to my collection.


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## slingshot_sniper

What's a seal sniper everyone is talking about?


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## erlkonig

slingshot_sniper said:


> What's a seal sniper everyone is talking about?


because you shoot it in the bedroom


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## mckee

uown lots of cattys lol


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## NightKnight

erlkonig,

Since it looks like the situation has been explained and resolved by Bill, could you edit your first post to say that the issue has been resolved to your satisfaction?

Thanks,


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## srs45

Glad you got yours sorted, I didn't really get any closure on mine.

I did go about emailing rather than starting a thread.

I didn't really ask anything I ended up stripping mine back and refinishing it, I didn't know about these seconds but I'm guessing it definately was one.

I did send an email just saying I was really disappointed with the finish as it was unuseable in its current state and that it was not to a standard I would expect to recieve.... didn't get a reply though, I didn't really want another one just a reply I guess.

Anyway done is done, I'm sure all is meant well, I'm just a bit disheartened.


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## erlkonig

srs-45 said:


> Glad you got yours sorted, I didn't really get any closure on mine.
> 
> I did go about emailing rather than starting a thread.
> 
> I didn't really ask anything I ended up stripping mine back and refinishing it, I didn't know about these seconds but I'm guessing it definately was one.
> 
> I did send an email just saying I was really disappointed with the finish as it was unuseable in its current state and that it was not to a standard I would expect to recieve.... didn't get a reply though, I didn't really want another one just a reply I guess.
> 
> Anyway done is done, I'm sure all is meant well, I'm just a bit disheartened.


If the discrepany were minor is ok to me, but lost part of the fork is unaccceptable. -

"unslingshotworthiness"


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## Ace

hey bill you could offer the seconds for a discounted price for those who don't mind putting in a little work into the slingshot, i'm sure there are a bunch of people on here dying to get their hands on a hathcock. my two cents


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## Adirondack Kyle

I just recieved a flawless hts, very well made, very clean, my new favorite. I will be ordering another at the end of the month.


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