# When/How is Tapered cut benificial over straight cut?



## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

I understand the basic concept of tapered bands, but when is it most beneficial taking the below options into concideration.

Note: these are hypothetical dimensions just for explaination.

1) 1" straight cut vs 1" (@ pouch) x 1.5"(@ fork)
2) 1" straight cut vs .5" (@pouch) x 1" (@ fork)

Meaning, which reason would one taper, when you use your use your straight cut width for your pouch end or fork end?

I am asking this to help me determine if I should continue tapering my bands or not, or adjust my widths... again exact dimemnsions are not necessary as far as this question goes.

Thank you

LGD


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## Hrawk (Oct 25, 2010)

Less weight at the pouch is always good.

Tapering FTW !


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## bullseyeben! (Apr 24, 2011)

Honesty I don't think its that important, I think the life loss is not out weighed by any real speed gain... and whilst taper has better result with lighter amo, I think it may be hindered faster as amo weight rises... I do it sometimes, but for my every day shooting i think why bother... personal preference I guess


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Too much of a pain in the butt for me.
If I shoot flats at all they're 107s. Takes me about two minutes from the time I decide to make a set to them being done and on the forks. Sure, in a lab situation I'm sure I'm losing a few fps to the best tapered latex bands. Know what? I don't care. They shoot great from any distance that I can expect to hit from.
I'd rather spend the time shooting than jerking around measuring and cutting tapered bands.


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## slingshot_sniper (Feb 20, 2011)

I agree with the 107's I've had good results with them and a good alternative to .030 latex,in fact I have approx 9M of 1745 tubing I may trade for some 107's as I do prefer flats.

Now if I lived in the US I would just buy my tapered bands from Texshooter,no measuring,cutting precisely or fiddling with attaching pouches.....just tie to the fork and shoot


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

M_J said:


> Too much of a pain in the butt for me.
> If I shoot flats at all they're 107s. Takes me about two minutes from the time I decide to make a set to them being done and on the forks. Sure, in a lab situation I'm sure I'm losing a few fps to the best tapered latex bands. Know what? I don't care. They shoot great from any distance that I can expect to hit from.
> I'd rather spend the time shooting than jerking around measuring and cutting tapered bands.


I hear ya, but since I cut bands there is no difference between cutting straight and cutting tapered.

I was just curious when it comes to tapered which of the options were more beneficial compared to the width of a straight cut...

oh and I still get my shooting time in.. that's for sure

LGD


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

I edited the first post abit,, since I can't wright









Sorry for being unclear


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Here's my opinion, worth just as much as you pay for it.

1. Maximum power - Tapered
2. Easy to cut, good performance, reasonable band life - Straight
3. Bang for the buck, easy to build - 107s


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

I guess I could have just asked " Should I make the fork end wider or the pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut?"


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## slingshot_sniper (Feb 20, 2011)

lightgeoduck said:


> I guess I could have just asked " Should I make the fork end wider or the pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut?"


[edit] scratch what I said,

LGD have you tried Texshooter measurements for tapered bands

I think 1" to 3.4" taper works fine


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

lightgeoduck said:


> I guess I could have just asked " Should I make the fork end wider or the pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut?"


Depends on whether you want more speed or easier draw.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

Henry in Panama said:


> I guess I could have just asked " Should I make the fork end wider or the pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut?"


Depends on whether you want more speed or easier draw.
[/quote]

So with that.. I assume that if I want more speed I would make my forkend wider than my standard straight cut width? and if I want easier draw, make my pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut? That was my initial assumption, but was curious if either one or both would accomplish more than just a straight cut.

LGD


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## strikewzen (Jun 18, 2010)

lightgeoduck said:


> I guess I could have just asked " Should I make the fork end wider or the pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut?"


i suspect if only want to gain a few fps you would want to make pouch end narrower, this will decrease draw weight but decrease durability

if you want to gain a lot of velocity or even shoot heavier ammo you want'll to make fork end wider and keep the 1 inch pouch end, draw weight slightly increased, durability should stay similar

sorry i do not have much experience with this topic


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

lightgeoduck said:


> I guess I could have just asked " Should I make the fork end wider or the pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut?"


Depends on whether you want more speed or easier draw.
[/quote]

So with that.. I assume that if I want more speed I would make my forkend wider than my standard straight cut width? and if I want easier draw, make my pouch end narrower than my standard straight cut? That was my initial assumption, but was curious if either one or both would accomplish more than just a straight cut.

LGD
[/quote]

Try looking at ZDP-189's blog, or send him a PM. I think he has done more research on bands than anyone else in the game.


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## The Gopher (Aug 25, 2010)

maybe this will help, you can calculate the band dimensions so that you get the same amount of rubber as in a straight cut but in a tapered band.

You could easily put this equation into excel and easily play around with dimensions to get exactly what you want.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

The Gopher said:


> maybe this will help, you can calculate the band dimensions so that you get the same amount of rubber as in a straight cut but in a tapered band.
> 
> You could easily put this equation into excel and easily play around with dimensions to get exactly what you want.


Thanks Gopher,

So is my goal for a beneficial taper compared to my straight cut is to keep the "same amount of rubber"?

But, is there benefits to just changing the width of one end of my "straight cut width" (setting aside exact measurments)? narrow the pouch end or widen the fork end, leaving one end alone?

LGD


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

For those of us who failed basic math, if you cut one strip twice the width of the straight cut, then cut that in half, on a diagonal, you will get two tapered bands, each with the same area as the straight cuts. For example, if I want a set of bands tapered 1 inch x .75 inch, I cut one strip 1.75 inch wide, then draw a line diagonally from the 1 inch point at one end to the .75 inch point on the other. I do all this with the latex taped down on my plywood cutting board to avoid stretching and tears.


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## The Gopher (Aug 25, 2010)

Here is an excel calculator for playing with band dimensions.

I think i depends on what you are after in your bands. If you keep the same fork width as the 1" straight but narrow the pouch width then you are decreasing the amount of rubber in your band but also boosting performance so in theory you "could" see the same speed with less draw. If you want to keep the draw the same but increase speed even more, then you can keep the same amount of rubber but taper the bands.

Again when i say "keep the draw the same" these are all relative measures, as they not likely be exactly the same but should be close.

I also agree that the ammo yu are shooting will make a difference too, if you are shooting half inch lead then i would just go with straight as they will last longer and tapered bands won't help heavy ammo much anyway.

There is always a give and take...there is no free lunch!


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## The Gopher (Aug 25, 2010)

That's exactly how i do it Henry, the bands don't know that they are only tapered from one side


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

lightgeoduck said:


> maybe this will help, you can calculate the band dimensions so that you get the same amount of rubber as in a straight cut but in a tapered band.
> 
> You could easily put this equation into excel and easily play around with dimensions to get exactly what you want.


Thanks Gopher,

So is my goal for a beneficial taper compared to my straight cut is to keep the "same amount of rubber"?

But, is there benefits to just changing the width of one end of my "straight cut width" (setting aside exact measurments)? narrow the pouch end or widen the fork end, leaving one end alone?

LGD
[/quote]

I think only you can define your goal. Do you want more speed, more band life, or something else? If all you do is kill aluminum cans at 10 yards, then you probably want maximum band life, and a taper will probably decrease it. I was going to offer some more advice, but Gopher has covered it quite well.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

I'm not sure about ZDP189's conclusions about band tapers are, but reading what Joerg and other knowledgeable experimenters have said on this subject, a 3:2 taper seems to be the optimum between speed and longevity. So I go by that and am happy with the result.

@ Gopher: I am far from being a mathematician, but I have thought along the same lines (kinda). All I did was take an average width of a tapered band and convert it to a straight band. For example, say I am using a 3/4 to 1/2 inch taper (which I do). I add 3/4 + 1/2 to get 1-1/4".
Then I take an average by dividing by 2, giving me 5/8". So I assume that a 5/8-inch straight-cut band will be equal to a 3/4 to 1/2 - inch tapered band in power, but it will last longer and pull a bit harder. This math is probably all wet but I have a very small brain. Anyway, thanks for the pdf, which I intend to study and learn from.


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

The Gopher said:


> Here is an excel calculator for playing with band dimensions.
> 
> I think i depends on what you are after in your bands.* If you keep the same fork width as the 1" straight but narrow the pouch width then you are decreasing the amount of rubber in your band but also boosting performance so in theory you "could" see the same speed with less draw. If you want to keep the draw the same but increase speed even more, then you can keep the same amount of rubber but taper the bands.*
> 
> ...


Thanks that (highlighted part) was the conclusion I was trying to draw... everything else you provided is GRAVY and deeply appreciated and will be used









Sorry to passer-byers I didn't mean for this to get all techy.. just wanted to know which end of my ruler to move







... but I truly do enjoy the data like Z and Gopher provides.. because with out it I wouldn't have anything to research







.... but now I have some in my thread for easy bookmarking







....

LGD


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## lightgeoduck (Apr 3, 2011)

slingshot_sniper said:


> I'm not sure about ZDP189's conclusions about band tapers are, but reading what Joerg and other knowledgeable experimenters have said on this subject, a 3:2 taper seems to be the optimum between speed and longevity. So I go by that and am happy with the result.
> 
> @ Gopher: I am far from being a mathematician, but I have thought along the same lines (kinda). All I did was take an average width of a tapered band and convert it to a straight band. For example, say I am using a 3/4 to 1/2 inch taper (which I do). I add 3/4 + 1/2 to get 1-1/4".
> Then I take an average by dividing by 2, giving me 5/8". So I assume that a 5/8-inch straight-cut band will be equal to a 3/4 to 1/2 - inch tapered band in power, but it will last longer and pull a bit harder. This math is probably all wet but I have a very small brain. Anyway, thanks for the pdf, which I intend to study and learn from.


Not sure if your math is wet or not, but I like your figuring ...

Thanks

LGD


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

I like TBG with 3/4" straight cut for plinking with 3/8" steel or lead. They still seem to break at the pouch most of the time so I make them a bit long. I can re-tie the broken side and keep going after the first breakage. Tapered bands require a bit more matching when re-tying.

It would be nice to see someone test their favourite tapered band and then compare it to a staright cut with the same fork width. Obviously, the trick is to test the straight cut first and then taper the same band. I did this once with 3/4" TBG converted to 3/4"x9/16" and I lost 3-4 fps with tapers when using 3/8" steel. The equivalent straight cut would have been slightly less at maybe 11/16". Different draw lengths or latex thickness might give very different results.

Cheers,
Northerner


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## The Gopher (Aug 25, 2010)

i think a better comparison would be a straight band set and a tapered bandset but with equal amount of rubber. The tapered bandset should be faster.

I'm not suprised that northerner lost 3-4 fps considering he lost about 12-13% of his rubber from his bands, i think this is really good actually.

remember we always report ammo speed, which is good but only tells half the story, we should also be reporting draw weight, draw length and band length if we are trying to make comparisons.


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