# Thin Vs thick flat bands



## skropi

I've got a little collection of bands. Gzk orange 0.8, Gzk orange 1mm, tbg, and a black band sold in the market here, which is 0.55mm. 
I've tried everything except gzk 1mm, and what I noticed is that the thinner black band, which is also the cheaper by a long shot, has something I can't describe. Yes, it is weaker, it needs to be cut a bit wider, but there is something about it I can't exactly describe. First of all it's lighter on the draw, like drawing butter, and there is the actual shot, which is....well, more "active"? I can't describe it exactly, but it goes faster with seemingly less force if that makes any sense, and I don't even know if it is 100% latex or not.
Has anyone else noticed anything similar?


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## mattwalt

I have noticed this as well. It may just be its better matched to the ammo... Rubber is actually pretty heavy - and it also has to move itself...


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## KawKan

I think this is a well supported observation.

I don't recall the source for this tidbit, but as I understand it, the more surface area for a given mass of latex or rubber, the faster it will retract. So, 10 gram bands with a thinner cross section (.50mm for example) retract faster than 10 gram bands of the same material with thicker cross section (1mm). Note that to have the same weight, the .50mm bands would have to be doubled to match the 1mm bands in the same configuration (20mm straight cut 210mm long, for example).

In general, I think we slingshooters tend to observe that thinner bands just seem snappier.


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## skropi

Kawkan, this is the word that describes it, "snappy". When I eventually run out of latex, which will take me some months, a year maybe, I will revert solely to the thin black latex I found here.


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## skropi

Gzk developed a year after many many shots. Its durability is outstanding. So I tried the thinner black band again. 25/20 taper, 15.6mm length for my usual 500% elongation, and yes, it is better than I remembered. 8/10 shots on my usual 4cm target from 12m. Much lighter draw, so stability is greatly enhanced, and more speed, so that it helps with the poi.
I think I found my ideal bands. I just don't know what to do with so much gzk I have. I will try a more extreme taper, maybe 19/12, and see if it gives me comparable results. That means that with the 1mm gzk, I will probably go around 16/8, we will see. (And I have 4m of 1m gzk, and 1.8m of gzk 0.8. Much rubber that I have to go through while I have the much better and faster and CHEAPER Greek latex.)


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## MakoPat

I have a bunch of the black bands. They are snappy. I prefer to double them up rather than put on heavier bands. I need the light draw weight on bands right now as I am healing up from an injured shoulder. 
Plinking is my preferred shooting activity. I do not hunt any more so why not uae the least expensive materials? Especially if they are so stinking fast... snappy fast. 
I have mostly used this band material for learning new frames to avoid hand slaps and fork hits that would cause massive damage. And these are what I put on my bb shooters as gifts to any new shooters and theu really handle 1/4" steel shot which os really the cheapiest steel shot in bulk.

As I read this I have discovered I may be cheap. Hahaha...


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## skropi

Latex is a weird beast, that's for sure. And I've also found a source for very cheap 0.65 latex which has the added bonus of being green. Logically it should behave the same as tbg, bit who knows. I ain't buying it yet though, as I have around 8 total meters of latex stockedI am just shooting as much as I can, but when you just re-tie, bands last for much too long . Any advice so as to go through latex a bit faster?


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## skropi

Mako, you aren't cheap, it's just that this dirt cheap latex is better than anything else I've tried till now.


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## skropi

In fact it is 7.2 euros for 2.5m with a 14.6 width. We are talking cheapy cheap here.


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## skropi

Oooole, made a mistake, thickness of the black latex is 0.6, not 0.55


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## KawKan

Yes, a stockpile of great latex is a heavy burden, LOL!

But you're doing the right things.

Keep shooting.

Cut radical tapers.

Keep shooting.

Cut it thin and double it.

Shoot some more!


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## bcuyle

I had the same experience with Theraband. If you go down to the blue or black they are very thin but have an easy draw and are quite fast.


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## MakoPat

I want a stockpile of latex and ammo... and frames... and maybe some carving tools.


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## Buckskin Dave

KawKan said:


> Yes, a stockpile of great latex is a heavy burden, LOL!
> 
> But you're doing the right things.
> 
> Keep shooting.
> 
> Cut radical tapers.
> 
> Keep shooting.
> 
> Cut it thin and double it.
> 
> Shoot some more!


How radical do you cut your tapers Kawkan? I have always shot Theraband gold. My bands are 6.5 inches active, cut at an inch and a quarter tapered down to three quarters of an inch. Think I should taper more?


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## skropi

It depends on your ammo BuckskinDave. What are you shooting? I gather you mainly hunt, right?


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## bcuyle

MakoPat said:


> I want a stockpile of latex and ammo... and frames... and maybe some carving tools.


A lotsa free cases of warm soda. (pre-shaken)


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## KawKan

Buckskin Dave said:


> KawKan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, a stockpile of great latex is a heavy burden, LOL!
> 
> But you're doing the right things.
> 
> Keep shooting.
> 
> Cut radical tapers.
> 
> Keep shooting.
> 
> Cut it thin and double it.
> 
> Shoot some more!
> 
> 
> 
> How radical do you cut your tapers Kawkan? I have always shot Theraband gold. My bands are 6.5 inches active, cut at an inch and a quarter tapered down to three quarters of an inch. Think I should taper more?
Click to expand...

I love tapers, but I cut on the conservative side - usually 4:3. But I like to stretch the rubber to near max. We all make our choices.

Most of my butterfly bands for 3/8 steel ammo are 1/2-inch to 3/8-inch and 10 to 12 inches long. For 1/2-inch steel, I cut 5/8 to 3/8. For shorter draws, I lean toward 5/8 to 3/8 and 3/4 to 1/2.

I have shot some 8-inch flats that came with Chinese slings that were tapered 2:1 (20mm-10mm) and they were very zippy and gave acceptable life. My gut feeling is the tapers like 2:1 are pretty radical and work better with longer cuts of rubber.

But, if you want to use up latex fast, cut it to 2:1 and stretch it to the max every shot!


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## skropi

As for stretching, I am always at 500%. What I wonder is if it is the same to stretch less, or cut narrower so as to lessen draw weight and power and vice versa.


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## Buckskin Dave

skropi said:


> It depends on your ammo BuckskinDave. What are you shooting? I gather you mainly hunt, right?


No not mainly. Most of the time I'm shooting cans or bottle tops or targets of opportunity like tree knots, dandelion heads, what ever catches my eye. I like targets that react when I hit them. I use a lot of .36 lead and .44 lead. When I do use a catch box and 3/8 steel I use a little lighter band set, Theraband gold one inch down to three quarters of an inch.


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## Kalevala

skropi said:


> Gzk developed a year after many many shots. Its durability is outstanding. So I tried the thinner black band again. 25/20 taper, 15.6mm length for my usual 500% elongation, and yes, it is better than I remembered. 8/10 shots on my usual 4cm target from 12m. Much lighter draw, so stability is greatly enhanced, and more speed, so that it helps with the poi.
> I think I found my ideal bands. I just don't know what to do with so much gzk I have. I will try a more extreme taper, maybe 19/12, and see if it gives me comparable results. That means that with the 1mm gzk, I will probably go around 16/8, we will see. (And I have 4m of 1m gzk, and 1.8m of gzk 0.8. Much rubber that I have to go through while I have the much better and faster and CHEAPER Greek latex.)


When I shoot with 1 mm thich GZK (White), my taper is 15-10 mm.

There are many different factors, that affect what feels most comfortable to You. Once You find what feels perfect, You are getting better results.


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## Kalevala

skropi said:


> Any advice so as to go through latex a bit faster?


This is the first time, when I see this question :lol:

Usually it is "Why my bands break"


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## skropi

Lol Kalevala you are right  By the way I found a good comfortable taper for gzk 0.8. 18/12 and it is light and fast. I shot it as comfortably as 20/15 tbg or 25/20 of 0.6 black latex. So it will get used nicely. I compared 0.8 Vs tbg and tbg is like butter in comparison. Those gzk really are some hard latex, and they last a LONG time.
The thing is that if you buy locally, latex can be found for very cheap, so there is no reason to sacrifice performance for longevity


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## skropi

Got some serious tests done. Greek black latex is identical in performance and feel to tbg. With a 25/20 taper, I got 196fps from both of them with 10mm steel. Gzk orange 0.8, cut 18/12 gave almost the same, 200fps, with a slightly heavier draw, but nothing uncomfortable. Next step will be to check out some Greek green latex which is 0.65 thick.


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## SkullT

...all the above is why I use tubes... :rofl:


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## skropi

Lol SkullT  problem with tubes is that they cost a bit more and can't find them locally. Other than that, yeah, no cutting no nothing (eventhough I do like cutting bands, optimizing, etc). 
I tried some 2050, singles, that came with my scout clone, and they are sooooooo smooth and quiet, and for singles they aren't too weak. One thing I noticed, but I am not sure, I think they don't like a 500% elongation, but they prefer around 400-450%?


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## SkullT

Dankung must post to Greece and their postage seems pretty fair to me, quick and efficient. Is there a problem getting stuff posted into Greece? Oh and you would luv the pseudo tapers...my favorite but I tend to use 2040 looped tubes for speed simplicity and long life...


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## skropi

What length of 2040 would you use for a 77cm draw? And my tubes are 2040, not 2050, it was a typo. I can't try the looped though, because I already cut them up


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## skropi

Oh, no problem getting stuff in Greece posted, I just don't like waiting so much


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