# constructive criticism is wanted!



## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

well, it has been brought to my attention by a forum member that our slingshots are not very good. can you guys post things that we should change about our slingshots? our goal is to make a fast high power hunting slingshot for about 20USD. all slingshots come stained or not stained, with gold thera band. please help us make a better slingshot for you!!! i will post pictures below going in order from left to right we have a SS1/SS2/SS3/and a BBS


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Evan and Devan,

First of all, the pictures are too small to make a fair judgment. But I have a question for you. Have you tried any of the slingshots made by any of the pros? If you can make something you feel can compete with them, then you may be able to sell some. But if, after trying a good sampling, you can't make a slingshot equal to or better than what you've bought in the $20 price range, then forget it. First you must satisfy yourself that your product is worth your time and another's money. No one else's opinion can do that for you. You must research the competition and make a reasoned judgment on your own.
Word to the wise.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

thanks. i have a cougar and am looking forward to getting my bunny buster. personaly i think our slingshots are more accurate but not as powerful as the cougar.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Accuracy comes from the shooter. Power comes from the bands. It comes down to this: you have to make a frame that looks cool, is strong and durable, and fits into the hand and functions like a well-designed tool. If you can do all this and what I posted above, the rest is salesmanship, I guess.


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## Skit Slunga (Apr 14, 2010)

I tried to embigganate the pics some - blurred them a lot but gave me a lil clue. Shapes -especially that 3 rd one- are not bad truthfully. Maybe a slightly slimmer profile on the handle of pics 1,2 &4. It looks like they are all just cut out and sanded a bit. Are your cuts clean with no chip out? - do you two do any rounding to full round over of the edges? I feel it really helps the look and feel of the s'shot. Don't get me started on finishes







because I get carried away juuuusssst a lil bit...


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

well, we have been using a dremel to round the edges but my father has to teach us how to safely use the router for the edges. and as of now the SS3 (3rd one) is the strongest and best looking(in my opinion)


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

First a fork is a fork is a fork. If you make a product that people look at and say " I could make that." You aren't going to sell it. Now look at BB's, A+'s, or FB's some of their forks are pretty basic but the fit and finish are exceptional add to that their choice of woods and you have something most people can't whip up at home. Then throw in the years of experience, the fact that they can answer most questions a newbie might have and custom make a slingshot to fit the needs and taste of their customer and you have what it takes to sell a product. That's not to say your slingshots are bad but when you have those others to measure up to you got to really do.something.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

k, but it would be very hard to make something like the for under 20. we will be using red oak as soon as we finish the current board we are using


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

How about going back to the natural forks you started with ? The only thing I didn't like about them was they were too thin for my tastes. Start a hunt for good thick naturals made from hardwood and do some creative carving with your dremel. Round over the top of each fork tip and make it where you can attach flats or tubes with a rubber tie in a groove. Most of us love natural forks. Make sure the fork tips are not too tall, about two inches, at the most three, so there is little wrist torque. Make a fun time out of hunting for forks, maybe put an ad in a shopper that you will help to dispose of tree trimmings if you have the means. Hickory, ash, pecan, apple are great, but almost any solid wood will do for a natural fork because the grain pattern is strong and doesn't run in one direction like in a board. Just don't pick wimpy looking forks to sell, they need to look stout.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

thats a good idea. we would like to start doing them again and we will try to get a few made up. verry good idea i can not wait to do naturals again


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Evan and Devan
Keep up the good work.I beleive you are two young boys trying to start a slingshot business.Look at the workmanship on other slingshots and try to make yours as good or better.Listen to the advice of the forum members,they will not steer you wrong.With practice and experience you will get it right.You had to learn to walk before you could run.It is the same starting out in any business.Keep trying and you will succede.Good luck.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

thank you, and the whole point of this thread is for the members to share and express what they want out of a slingshot. it so we can make something for the buyers


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

You guys should have bought one cut out of each of the ones sold like Pallans, Flatband and may be one more. Shoulda played with them for a few weeks, shooting them etc. BUT more importantly, getting the feel of how they are made, how they shoot and more importantly perhaps how to improve them based on your exclusive design with a twist so people go "oh wow, that's interesting!! ". A cut out is a cut out but the feel, the way it holds, the way it shoots and especially the bands you give with them will sell or not sell.

Secondly, I see no reason to sell something at $20 when the going rate is around $25-$30. Sometimes the "cheap" banner on a price tag in marketing works against you unless quality is up to par to the rest of the boys. I would spend a little more time on each cut out, refine the way it looks to a piece work worth displaying. I don't speak for anyone else here, but I love my slingshot collection and displaying them as much as shooting them.

We all have 'go to' slingshots that we shoot but almost everyone here has more than one slingshot.

Get a better website made, get a real domain and copy some of the ideas of success out there in the slingshot market on the way they market their warez. You claim your slingshot is very accurate, excellent, now work on the rest of the icing on the cake.

Lots of luck.
Peresh.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

thank you. your guys help is verry appreceated


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

I went to youtube to see your demonstration. For me there is nothing wrong with the power for it to tear a can off a string like that. The style is just right, its real and it works. Some are drawn to more pretty or more finished but that is preference like buying a type of vehicle. You ought to continue on with what your skills are in line to do. Unless this is your only source of income I would just keep doing what I like. If some are critical without merit then they dont have to grace your shooters. From what I see your shooters look excellent and you proved how they shoot on youtube.


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## broken arrow (Jul 15, 2010)

EVERY SLINGSHOT YOU MAKE WILL GET BETTER. THE MORE YOU LEARN ABOUT WOODWORKING THE NICER YOUR SLINGSHOTS WILL BE. KEEP READING THE FORUMS AND LEARN FROM THE EXPERINCED BUILDERS, I LEARN SOMTHING ALMOST EVERYDAY.I SELL MY SLINGSHOTS FOR $10.00,THEY ARE SOLID,ACCURATE ,DEPENDABLE AND FUN FOR THE WHOLE FAMILY.AND ITS A GREAT HOBBY FOR ME. AND ONE MORE THING ,BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU ARE NOT EXPERINCED WITH A ROUTER DOING A SMALL OBJECT LIKE A SLINGSHOT.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

yes, they are very powerful. when we killed the 2 pigeons our new SS3 put a clean hole into the pigeons chest. i think we will try to use better looking woods(possibly exotics) in the future


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

When you first joined and asked what people looked for in a slingshot, I suggested that it be something effective, but also elegant and well finished. I agree with what harpersgrace said, if someone looks at a board cut and reckons they can make it in a short amount of time, they won't buy it. This applies to a lot of things, but slingshots seem to attract a crowd of people that are good with their hands. You need to be especially innovative, creative or skilled to pull something off that the members here won't feel ready to replicate. You can't compete on price, either. $30-50 may be the going rate for a handcrafted slingshot, but even if you cut your labour to zero and just charge materials, consumables and postage then the difference won't be that great. It may even be more than what you can buy a Saunders Hawk, or a finely handcrafted Chinese slingshot for.

I admire that you're going about this like a business, even if you're just two kids cutting boards on weekends. If I was a business advisor, I'd tell your departments the following:


Marketing: Position your product in an under-served niche because your production capacity and price and quality competitive advantages are low.
CEO: Maximise your return on resources. Identify where the greatest value added and greatest resources are and focus on that. Look to the future, but in a startup focus on getting a good first product to market. Make sure all corporate structuring, procedures are in place and liability is mitigated.
R&D: Quickly settle on a winning form and stick to it. Spending resources on development saps your ability to actually do business.
Operations: Look at the production process and where it needs to be more efficient. Use templates, produce in batches, reduce waste.
Finance: Make sure you have sufficient funds for start-up, capital expenditure on equipment, and cover working capital for materials and inventory. If money is tight, borrow others' resources and focus on reducing working capital tied up.
Purchasing: Can you buy materials in quantity, or find other buyers to split larger orders? Are you buying from the most cost efficient source?
Take the T1 for example. This was my thought process: I noticed very few people were working with plastics and laminates and wanted to promote new ideas about new materials. I can cast resins, but not many people want to do that and it doesn't showcase workmanship well. Board cuts on the other hand can make use of strong sheet cast plastics and fibre reinforced resins. Board cuts are also fast to produce and shoot well. The problem was they usually have to be very thick or they don't feel right in the hand. Modern laminates don't require such thickness for sufficient strength. I developed the T1 to be a thin board cut target shooter. At the time, I was spending a lot of time on new designs but I don't really want to give prototypes away. Sometimes it's because there's things that aren't quite right and I don't want it tarnishing my reputation, other times it's just perfect and I don't want to give up my best working example. I settled on the T1 as a template because it had proven itself and I planned to make lots of them. I have given no other design a template number because they are intended as one-offs, at least for now. The T1 however would make a great trade item so that I can get them into as many hands as possible, get detailed feedback and trade for other people's work without spending a lot of cash. I have considered lots of ways of making them faster. I'd look at CNC or outsourced hand cutting, but for now production numbers are best served doing it in-house. The slowest step is accurately radiusing the edges and I'm on the lookout for router bits. I have now settled on using paper micarta as the board. It's cheaper, kinder on tools and faster to cut than G10, stronger than acrylic, more rigid than polycarbonate, more plentiful than exotic wood and doesn't get into my skin, lungs and eyes. I have several square feet bought from a stockist's offcut bin and they're all scribed out ready to cut. The design tessellates quite tightly into the board widths I picked out of the offcut bin. I have all the resources needed to complete these boards already to hand. The key now is to crack on and focus on fit and finish and quality control.

Back to your original question, I haven't received your slingshot yet so I don't have any detailed comments. I prefer your left-most design. #3 is prettier, but the design is weak at the base of the forks where the grain is also weakest. Safety has to be your top priority. We (especially Americans) live in a litigious society and if you have been holding yourself out as a business, and somebody loses an eye, then you may well be treated as a business by the courts. They'd probably find you to be proprietors of an unregistered business without a limited liability structure and lacking product liability insurance, so you or your parents might be held financially accountable to direct, derivative and punitive damages. BTW, do you need CE or other markings to be selling a product in the relevant jurisdictions? I don't know.

Like Bill says, I'd also like to see better pictures of your slingshots before I can comment on fit and finish. I imagine that if a few of us commented similarly, then your potential customers won't have enough detail to decide on making a purchase. Big-name makers with a reputation for quality may get away with it, but newcomers like you and I can't. I always wait for good light and take sharp and detailed photos to post when I showcase new slingshots.


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

I think you guys should stick with it. Do not give up and you will succeed.


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## Skit Slunga (Apr 14, 2010)

USASlingshot said:


> well, we have been using a dremel to round the edges but my father has to teach us how to safely use the router for the edges. and as of now the SS3 (3rd one) is the strongest and best looking(in my opinion)


Awesome that you have a good selection of tools *and* a willing accomplice...er.. teacher to show you the safety aspects







but if you have a dremel and can use it with some dexterity that's all you really need (files and sandpaper along with elbow grease and above all- patience, works very well too) Have you watched Geko's "Carving" vid? If not let's try to keep it a diy until you get the training you need on the router.

Keep at it and looking for inspiration.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Thank you ZDP we will post pictures up sometime of all of our slingshots finished. Also thank you everyone for the support so far. Recurve/ ZDP hope you guys like your slingshots when they arrive


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Why don't you ask the resident master slingshot makers to create a design for you? Of course I am only talking about the guys that usually don't sell their slingshots.

I did that for Dankung, and they seem to be quite successful with the Cougar.

I could certainly design a boardcut with some special, unique features for you, or maybe even rwo (one for the hammergrip style, one for the index+thumb style).


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Jörg's offer is especially generous. You should take him up on it.


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## pelleteer (Dec 19, 2009)

USASlingshot said:


> well, it has been brought to my attention by a forum member that our slingshots are not very good.


I'm assuming this is someone who bought one of your slignshots and didn't care for it (in other words, someone who actually owns one and isn't just going by what they see in your pics and video)? Did they specifically tell you what they didn't like? That would be a good place to start. Discuss the specifics with them (via email or PM), if you haven't already, and then figure out what you need to do (and what you are capable of doing with the tools you have) to improve upon the design or workmanship in the future.


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## bunnybuster (Dec 26, 2009)

Evan
I am sure your slingshots shoot just fine.
Some shooters are looking for a unique fit and finish,along with a strong fork.
There is nothing wrong with your designs, and they are your own. Focus on the finish.
Sand out all tool marks and round over the edges a little more. For fun, try making a laminate. Lowes sells thin boards (1/4 in.) of maple,oak,and cedar. Mix and match the woods, and glue them together. The laminate is a super strong fork and will show off your craftmanship. On the smaller slingshots, I like to use gum rubber flatbands. in lieu of the theraband stuff. They shoot fast, and make the slingshot look more traditional.
IMHO
Tom
aka. bunnybuster


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

You guys better not quit ! Keep at it and you will find your way. Someone is always going to not like something they bought for one reason or another. Try to find out why they didn't like it and see if you can fix it if it is a real concern or ignore it if you feel strongly you are right about what you are selling.


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## Gandolphin (Jun 28, 2010)

start with taking pictures with a camera and not a dad rabbit's eye


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

I might add that if you guys continue to be avid and adventurous shooters yourselves, you will develop a sort of "sixth sense" about what makes one slingshot better than another. Because there is no accounting for taste, this is hard to analyze, but here's an example of how you might go about it:

1. You said you think the Cougar you own is "more powerful" than yours. Okay, what does that *really* mean? How can one frame be more powerful than another? It can't. If you think about it, what you have sensed is probably that the Cougar, being made of steel, is *stronger* and would support a much stronger bandset than yours would (i. e., Joerg would probably break it in one of his vids). All you gotta do there is decide on how strong does a slingshot have to be, anyway? Making one out of steel really isn't necessary, but to get yours a little stronger, just use thicker wood, or multiplex.

2. You also said that you think your slingshot is "more accurate". Again, ask yourself: How can one frame be more accurate than another? As Harper said, a fork is a fork . The conclusion I have come to about this is that the *shape* of some forks is more suitable to the intended function than the shape of some other forks. Some forks favor hammer grip shooting, some can't be shot that way at all, and some can be shot any way you hold them. It's mostly a matter of comfortable grip over many shots plus good use of leverage.

I am constantly trying to come up with new designs. It's not easy to do without copying something of somebody else's. But you should be thinking two things: Form & Function, Form & Function, Form & Function.

To increase your knowledge about the function of a slingshot you must shoot as much as you can and in as many ways as you can. The more you shoot the more you will learn.

I want to encourage you to keep at it. You'll come up with the right formula, don't worry. It's not rocket science.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Pelleter, the person who "inspired" me to make this does not own a slingshot. I simpily sent him a message saying hello and that I hope we could do buisness. He replied with "no, I can make slingshots that are much superior to yours." he then went on to say even for our low prices our slingshots are still a JOKE.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Then don't take it to heart, (D)evan. I am sure there are plenty of people out there who wouldn't pick one of mine over a $5 wristbraced walmart slingshot, or who wouldn't buy one of the many excellent creations offered by the well respected forum vendors.

Make your slingshots for potential buyers, not people who would never buy from you anyway.

At the end of the day, you can learn from successful makers, but you have to have some degree of self confidence and individuality as it's the source of your creative energy.


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## pelleteer (Dec 19, 2009)

Definitely. I wouldn't put any stock in such comments. For somebody to blow off your products like that without even trying them out is ridiculous. On the plus side, they did inspire you to start this thread, in which you've received lots of good advise, so at least some good came of it.









P.S. I agree, I'd like to see some larger pics. The SS3 especially is a really cool shape.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

yes, i want to see if devan wants to try laminate instead of regular boards. and possibly some cheaper exotic woods. I wont lie, this tread has opened my eyes to all of the possibilities that we have not been trying.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Why don't you ask the resident master slingshot makers to create a design for you? Of course I am only talking about the guys that usually don't sell their slingshots.
> 
> I did that for Dankung, and they seem to be quite successful with the Cougar.
> 
> I could certainly design a boardcut with some special, unique features for you, or maybe even rwo (one for the hammergrip style, one for the index+thumb style).


Thank you very much. Me and my partner would be honored, your slingshot skill and creativity is amazing


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

A fork can be less accurate if ; You use the fork to aim and it is a new slingshot of yours and the bands attachment at the fork is different from your old one .but its only less accurate until you get used to aiming with it ,this can take only several shots .It depends on how fast you learn and realize things.
By the way the person who said such a thing as your slingshots are a joke and ...... HE IS A JOKE !
He is probably not 15 like you so why would a adult hurt a kid?
Joerg's offer is very nice he is a realy good guy and doing so much for this community!


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Just a few words, keep it simple make sure they are well finished, and dont make a load untill you are happy with the design, and put a good size photo on, so the Likes of flatband and tex and a few of the others can tell you what they think, jeff


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks. I think we are going to redesign our SS series and hopefuly make a few new slingshots, one with joerg if he's willing


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## A+ Slingshots (Jan 22, 2010)

Keep your chins up boys.... any entrepreneur has to have thick skin, perseverance and and open mind. Working hard to do better and making good choices is also apart of it. You've come this far, why not go the rest of the way!!!


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

pallan65 said:


> Keep your chins up boys.... any entrepreneur has to have thick skin, perseverance and and open mind. Working hard to do better and making good choices is also apart of it. You've come this far, why not go the rest of the way!!!


I was the critique lol, seriously though I don't know why anyone would buy one of your slingshots for $20, when you could get a PS-1 for $25 from Perry!


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## Skit Slunga (Apr 14, 2010)

Sam said:


> I was the critique lol, ...


...and this coming from someone unable to shoot vermin even semi-accurately? I'm typically a "nice person" in general...but what you are saying is "unconstructive" in it's truest sense... putting it "nicely".


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## A+ Slingshots (Jan 22, 2010)

Definitely NOT cool Sam








I'm glad you and others like my catties but not at the expense of trashing other makers (especially young men starting a business).
That really sets poorly with me. I value honesty but it should always be tempered with kindness.


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

USASlingshot said:


> yes, they are very powerful. when we killed the 2 pigeons our new SS3 put a clean hole into the pigeons chest. i think we will try to use better looking woods(possibly exotics) in the future


I use m.d.f. board cuts very plain but they are exremely strong,like board can only be they are very plain so I use a bees wax dark stain to give it colour,also give it a name,I have drilled some holes in a pattern to give it a bit more appeal.I also supply slingshots at my place of work for a knock down price and get feedback from them as to what they like and what they dont up to now all comments have been positive,I also get my familys opinion I sell mine on ebay and give them my youtube channel (4030bing)so they can see how these slingshots perform.Like the guys on this site have already said their are many slingshot designs and attatchment methods see what appeals to you give it your touch and see what happens


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

sam, honestly when you said our slingshots were "a joke" it really mad me mad. You have never even held one of our slingshots and you still took it upon yourself to say that. you have confidence, thats a good thing to have but when you trash other peoples slingshot designs that takes it wayy past the line. i hope you realize that even though our slingshots are a joke now we are trying our best to improve our designs. and it's official we will be coming out with a new slingshot designed the the 1 and only Joerg Sprave! i can not wait


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## hawk2009 (Dec 30, 2009)

Yes I could not agree more Pallen,Sam these are two young men doing their best, constructive criticism is acceptable but you were down right rude you seem very opinionated and quick to critisize many people on this site,Question what have you done since joining this forum


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## Brooklyn00003 (Feb 28, 2010)

I am going to buy a lotto tomorrow. I just have the feeling .


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

LOL, I'm fellin lucky to wish I was 18


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Gandolphin said:


> start with taking pictures with a camera and not a dad rabbit's eye


you need some spell checkin brotha


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## Performance Catapults (Feb 3, 2010)

Dayhiker said:


> I might add that if you guys continue to be avid and adventurous shooters yourselves, you will develop a sort of "sixth sense" about what makes one slingshot better than another.


This is where I would start. ^ ^ ^ 
Be a passionate enthusiast with shooting a slingshot. Let it burn in your heart and everything else will fall into place.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

OK guys don't jump on me just yet, I just think that some times it pays to get a wake up call (In the top description he did ask for what we really think,) only yesterday I saw that you are already advertising on this website and even have a website of your own selling your slingshots - I just think you're going at this the wrong way round - when you're learning to swim you don't just dive straight into the deep end, unless you want to drown!









OK, so I may be brutally honest, but I am just that - honest. In order for people to be willing to part with their money you need to be selling something that represents value - at the moment you have nothing but grainy, 150 x 113 pixel photographs of what appear to be (from what I can see at least,) nothing anyone on these forums couldn't knock up themselves in 15 minutes.

Even if you do perceive me to be a haughty [insert suitable expletive here] I will still stand by my philosophy: it's a dog-eat-dog world and you've got a lot of extremely talented competition: Aplus, Bunnybuster, Fish, Cougar, Dankung, Martin, Flatband, etc who all have their own unique selling points, and for you to have any chance of even selling a hand full of slingshots, especially in this economic climate, you're going to need to find your own!









PS: I wish you only the best of luck with your endeavours and will happily help you out with your website (I'm XHTML & CSS competent.)


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## bunnybuster (Dec 26, 2009)

Wow!
Such intellectual opinions from someone, who most likely, never attempted to make a slingshot. or someone that just likes to talk ,and be-little others that do.
Let us see some of your craftmanship.
You sir...are very Rude.
BB


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Sam, your message is loud and clear. But you cannot help but be impressed with the brotherly/fatherly tone of this forum, can you? And now you have joined into the true spirit here. 
... Evan and Devan, take him up on his offer to help with your website. He's just blunt, he's not really a bad guy. I can tell.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

yes, i know he is not a bad guy. i actualy think we might take him up on his offer


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

Ironically I actually found myself in the same position when I started making websites on a professional basis, I was 14 (although I had been making websites since I was 11, mainly for friends and such,) and the idea struck me that I actually had the potential to make some money here! However I was designing my websites using a table-layout, a now primitive method which comprises entirely of HTML [HyperText Markup Language] and results in complex, bloated code. This was pretty much the industry standard when I was 11, but times had changed quickly with the adoption of CSS [Cascading Style Sheets] by the industry, CSS essentially allowed you to manipulate divs [divisions] in ways that HTML simply couldn't, it was also more efficient, the browser only had to load the CSS file once and reserve it in the cache, dramatically reducing loading time (back when it mattered!)
So you can imagine the ass kicking I got when I posted my 'professional' websites on an online forum for web designers!







Man some of them were really sour - they'd make me sound positively polite!







At first I was genuinely upset and contemplated quitting the forum, but I had a mini-epiphany and realised that these guys didn't want to hurt me, they wanted to help me, they were actually saving me a lot of pain! So after three months of many frustrated tears I was beginning to win their 'Website of the Week' competition, and not long after that some of my work was being nominated for the prestigious 'Website of the Month', I even won it a couple of times!









I haven't actually made a website for over 6 months now, I started making computers to custom specifications, primarily for gamers, and after I'd made a couple of PCs for close friends word spread and business was coming in thick and fast, to the point where there was little point in me continuing with my webdesign (due to many factors I have not the time to explain web design isn't as profitable as it once was, quite the opposite of PC building I might say!) So I will definitely be pretty rusty, although I expect it's like riding a bike and will come back easily - I hope anyway!


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

bunnybuster said:


> Wow!
> Such intellectual opinions from someone, who most likely, never attempted to make a slingshot. or someone that just likes to talk ,and be-little others that do.
> Let us see some of your craftmanship.
> You sir...are very Rude.
> BB


Hey Buddy, didn't mean to rattle your cage!







I unfortunately only had a short time to practice wood-working under Design Technology at secondary school as I had a somewhat prodigious ability with CAD and the electrical side of DT and was pretty much forced against my will to take the electrical side into my further studies. But I did definitely have a knack with wood, and I think the rest of my class would readily admit I was the best in the year - not much compared to the talent we have on this forum though!







I have made a couple of slingshots: some multi-plex ergonomics and even an oak natural tree fork which I initially worked on over 6 years ago, I shoot it today as my primary slingshot - that will change when Perry's PS-2 makes it over the Atlantic!









I've had a lot of problems in the past with people resenting me for my somewhat elitist and condescending persona, but it's who I am and I've tried to change, but suffice to say I can't!


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## keeco (Feb 28, 2010)

consult an attorney , your parents are responsible for anything you do or make.one idiot with a good lawyer will ruin them


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

keeco said:


> consult an attorney , your parents are responsible for anything you do or make.one idiot with a good lawyer will ruin them


Say what!?


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## keeco (Feb 28, 2010)

product liability


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

sam, i think you mean the best of what you say. your problem is you are a bit to cocky, dont get me wrong confidence is very good but i think you have a little to much because you always make comments about how you are so good at things even though you have only done them a handful of times.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

keeco said:


> product liability


Good point, unfortunately in today's world common sense is far from common! With people successfully suing fast food restaurants for not putting labels saying: :WARNING: Contains hot water!' On their coffees after they burn their hands! All of these 'No Win, No Fee!' Laws are breeding a truly worrying society where morons can sue innocent individuals for their own stupidity!









They're lucky I'm not a judge, I'd give them 10 years of compulsory education on account of being an imbecile, but hey that's just me!

EDIT: If being sued by a retard, I mean mentally handicapped person, who's managed to shoot his brother's eye out with one of your slingshots worries you, I would suggest contacting one of the guys who sells slingshots en masse via the forums - I think you can avoid most of these circumstances by explicitly outlining the correct safety measures that must be taken when operating one of your slingshots - although in most cases I doubt that would actually work as many of the people who have problems seem unable to read!


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

USASlingshot said:


> sam, i think you mean the best of what you say. your problem is you are a bit to cocky, dont get me wrong confidence is very good but i think you have a little to much because you always make comments about how you are so good at things even though you have only done them a handful of times.


You know I think you may be on to something there mate, I think it comes from being perpetually told by everyone that you're good at everything - I let it get to my head!


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

good point, at one point we talked about printing warning labels. We havent done it yet though


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

USASlingshot said:


> good point, at one point we talked about printing warning labels. We havent done it yet though


Unfortunately saying: "Look Retard, wear glasses and don't point the **** thing at your brother!" isn't enough, there's a certain type of language you need to use (I like to call it 'lawyer language',) and protocol you have to follow, this is why I think talking to someone like Perry would be a good idea...


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

yes, very good idea.


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

USASlingshot said:


> yes, very good idea.


And maybe enforcing mandatory intelligence quotients in the checkout page?

....Just joking!


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Sam said:


> sam, i think you mean the best of what you say. your problem is you are a bit to cocky, dont get me wrong confidence is very good but i think you have a little to much because you always make comments about how you are so good at things even though you have only done them a handful of times.


You know I think you may be on to something there mate, I think it comes from being perpetually told by everyone that you're good at everything - I let it get to my head!








[/quote]

I feel like I've fallen into an episode of "The Big Bang Theory". LOL!


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

Henry in Panama said:


> sam, i think you mean the best of what you say. your problem is you are a bit to cocky, dont get me wrong confidence is very good but i think you have a little to much because you always make comments about how you are so good at things even though you have only done them a handful of times.


You know I think you may be on to something there mate, I think it comes from being perpetually told by everyone that you're good at everything - I let it get to my head!








[/quote]

I feel like I've fallen into an episode of "The Big Bang Theory". LOL!
[/quote]
Lol I'm actually JUST like the tall skinny one!







I'm into Relativian Physics and everything...


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

LOL, does anyone else have sugestions?


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

USASlingshot said:


> LOL, does anyone else have sugestions?


Sure. Make only what you like to make. Get some friends interested by inviting them to go shooting with you. Give some slingshots away. Start local, and build from there. By trying to go national or international right out of the gate, you are going up against some world-class craftsmen. Remember that a lot of the guys here (no, I'm not one of them) are master craftesmen, and they didn't just wake up one day and decide they would be such. They have many years of practice behind them.

I'm getting in the game far too late to ever hope to be as good as these guys, but you two have a lifetime to become Masters. Make the most of it, and be patient.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Henry in Panama said:


> LOL, does anyone else have sugestions?


Sure. Make only what you like to make. Get some friends interested by inviting them to go shooting with you. Give some slingshots away. Start local, and build from there. By trying to go national or international right out of the gate, you are going up against some world-class craftsmen. Remember that a lot of the guys here (no, I'm not one of them) are master craftesmen, and they didn't just wake up one day and decide they would be such. They have many years of practice behind them.

I'm getting in the game far too late to ever hope to be as good as these guys, but you two have a lifetime to become Masters. Make the most of it, and be patient.
[/quote]

thank you for the advice, it is appreciated!


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

The risk liability issue would worry me too, we here in Europe keep hearing ludicrous stories about outrageous US jury decisions.

Especially for young guys with their whole lifes ahead of them and virtually no money, this is scary.

Could it be a wise idea to start a corporation, so the liability does not threaten the individuals behind it? I heard that some states allow the registration of corporations in an easy and cheap fashion (e.g. Delaware).


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes, like I said earlier we will probably put a note with our slingshots saying eye wear is required and we aren't liable for any injuries aquired. Blah blah blah


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Do that, and start a corporation. It says here you can register one for under a 100 dollars:

http://www.ehow.com/about_5244279_much-cost-register-company_.html

In fact, I strongly recommend looking at this possibility for other small slingshot makers too. Should the s... hit the fan, you simply surrender the 100 dollar corporation and go on with the next one. If you are personally liable, terrible things may happen to you now that the bk laws have been changed.

Jörg


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

Not to try to scare you but no matter what kind of warning you put on it, if someone gets the right lawyer in the right court it isn't going to do much good....all you can do is protect yourself as best you can and hope that it doesn't happen...


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Idk, I will have to think it over because 100 is alot of money


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Believe me, if someone sues you, you have lost 1000 dollars quicker than you can say "lawyer"!


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

You're going to have to talk it over with your parents anyway, since you are a minor I doubt you will be able to do it yourself.


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Believe me, if someone sues you, you have lost 1000 dollars quicker than you can say "lawyer"!


Say lawyer you're lucky if you can even talk to one for a $1000


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

LOL, I am lucky that Devan is in charge of that stuff. But we will seriously talk it over


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

The legal issue is major. However if proper liability is explained in documents shipped with the slingshot it should be ok. Another way around this is to just sell the forks and label them divining rods or something. lol.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes. There is no 100% way to avoid these conflicts. We just have to do our best and hope


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

To be fair, Sam stepped up and 'fessed up. While the quote posted by USASlingshot is a bit short of tact, maybe it was intended by Sam as constructive criticism.  Many of us, myself included, have also suggested that USASlingshot ups their game and that underpricing is no substitute for a better product. In addition, we don't know the circumstances of the PM; perhaps it was an unsolicited and unwanted offer and I note that the response was by PM and that it was USASlingshot that took it to the public forum. I don't hold it against Sam and nor should USASlingshot. After all, "sticks and stones may break my bones, but a decent bandset sure helps" or something like that.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Today I received my slingshot from Devon.

Communication and customer service was reasonable. The purchase was of an existing slingshot offered for sale (link). The price was US$12 plus shipping totalling US$22. Paypal payment of US$22 (fees paid by sender) was made on June 26th and the postmark was dated July 9th. USPS postage was US$3.96 as stamped. No offer to refund surplus postage was made.

Total fork length is 5", fork gap 2 7/16", tips 13/16" on one side and 3/4" on the other. The board is 9/16" thick.

It appears to be made of pine board, or a similar fast growing coniferous. I don't think it's heat or pressure treated, as it is very absorbant and drinks water very much like a sponge. The slingshot offered for sale was offered as polyurethane coated. There was in fact no such coating. The wood is very soft and marks under fingernail pressure. Tree rings run diagonally, but are wide with narrow bands of lignin. Nevertheless, it feels strong and there is ample wood where at the weakest part of the fork at the base where the grain runs contrary to the direction of the fork's flow.

Fit and finish is basic. Symmetry is so-so. There are deep tie grooves that are parallel to the tip and well defined. The tie bands sit firmly in these grooves. Ties are possibly Thera-band Gold The edges are rough hewn and show many tooling marks, dings and places where the wood has chipped out. I managed to give myself a splinter in the pinkie. It is stained with a penetration of about 1/16". The stain is not uniform and there are streaks that did not take up the stain. Sanding marks of a coarse grit are apparent and the inside of the fork V has been Dremeled inexpertly with deep gouges where the top or bottom of the sanding drum has dug in. There are rough inside angles where the vertical cut up the handle has terminated. The appearance is like something from a pre-war English schoolboy's locker; I wouldn't write it off as it's possible the overall look is deliberate and artistically applied.

Ergonomics are mixed. The thick board is comfortable but light. Forefinger and thumb wrap around. There is no palm swell or bridge support. The biggest fault is the handle offers little grip. Combined with stretching to get my forefinger and thumb around it and under torque from the heavy bands, it forces my hand open. After 20-30% of shots, the slingshot would leave my hand. They probably wouldn't be so much of a problem for someone with a bigger hand.










I believe the band to be Thera-band black, although I see no logo. It appears to be untapered at 11/16" on one side and and 13/16" on the other. It measures 6 3/4" from the fort tie to the pouch tie on both sides. They are folded in fourths. One side is perfectly folded and the other is semi-reversed at the pouch resulting in a twist. The pouch is nice split leather 4" in length and 13/16" across. It pulls like Hunter Bands but feels and sounds faster in contraction as I'd expect from Thera-band black. Overall, the bandset is good and I like it. I haven't target shot it or bench shot it yet.

Here's a video of it in action at 1,000 frames per second.






The release action is nice and linear.

I summary, there are several areas to be addressed. On new models, I recommend the board should be upgraded to a harder, more durable material and the overall fit and finish should be worked on. The bands are good performers and as long as the bottom of the handle can be given more palm swell and finger purchase then it should be a good shooter.

I hope this isn't taken as something of a pasting. It's not meant as such and I am content with my purchase.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

I am sorry I did not polly. However we will will be making laminates to avoid all of those dings


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## shot in the foot (Jan 3, 2010)

Why dont you get just a oblong bit of wood, not make a slingshot but sand it and learn how to finish it so its nice and smooth, then start making them, jeff


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Yes. We will still make board cuts but laminates are stronger and better looking


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Check out my Blog entry (link), where I have Chrony numbers for this and other slingshots.


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## bunnybuster (Dec 26, 2009)

Ok
these boys are doing their best to make some shooters that work, and shoot well.
Give them a bit of a break. {ZDP-189 edit: most recent offending posts referred to above have been removed}
I agree that they should spend a little more time in finishing the pieces they make.
Put your heart in every fork that you make. Quality is much more important than quantity. 
You have to love what you are fabricating. When you get to the point that you want to keep all the ones you make....other people will like them also.
Take pride in your details and craftmanship. try and make every piece special.
You have to put your heart in it.
BB


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## Peresh (May 3, 2010)

(D)evan, keep it up. Do not be discouraged by anything or anyone. Within no time, you will be up there selling like the rest.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

Skit Slunga said:


> well, we have been using a dremel to round the edges but my father has to teach us how to safely use the router for the edges. and as of now the SS3 (3rd one) is the strongest and best looking(in my opinion)


Awesome that you have a good selection of tools *and* a willing accomplice...er.. teacher to show you the safety aspects







but if you have a dremel and can use it with some dexterity that's all you really need (files and sandpaper along with elbow grease and above all- patience, works very well too) Have you watched Geko's "Carving" vid? If not let's try to keep it a diy until you get the training you need on the router.

Keep at it and looking for inspiration.
[/quote]
A Table Top Shaper would be far superior to a Router. You move the wood around instead of clamping the wood and moving the router. With the Table To[p Shaper the wood allways stays flat and very Easy once you get the feel of how the Shaper works. Very professional.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

look, unless i am going crazy when we first started making slingshots people said power is the top priority! now we have learned that is not the case and we are trying our best to fix the problem (hence starting this thread) so please do not say bad things when you guys are the ones who told us you like power over function and looks


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## harpersgrace (Jan 28, 2010)

Ok according to the poll you started 
Durability was #1 followed by High quality parts, cool look and cheap price..
on the USA forum it was Durability tied with quality parts, cool looks and cheap price...

Yes a lot of people here are from the more power crowd but they are still looking for a quality piece...do you need to work on the quality of your product ? yes! Do people need to chew you a new one? no. 
Unfortunately the internet has done more to kill common courtesy than just about anything else. We can say exactly what we want, when we want with out fear of reprisal and with a degree of anonymity and pretend that it is a virtue, "I'm being straight forward" "I'm being honest" "I'm strong willed" "I have a strong personality" basically we're being rude because we know we can get away with it, or because we haven't been taught better... I'm as guilty as the next person, which is more of a shame to me because I was taught better..

So here it is USAslingshot, 
you need to work on (perfect) the looks and quality of your product, 
you need to come up with a style that is your own, 
you need to charge a fee that is fair to you and your customer both for the product and the shipping, 
you need to protect yourselves from the idiots in the world who feel that getting a splinter is cause for a law suit , 
you need to work on your marketing especially your photos, 
you need to develop a thick skin when dealing with the public, when some one criticizes your work take it for what it's worth, but don't take it personally or too seriously.
You need to have fun or it's not worth doing, too much of your life will be spent on doing things that you really don't want to do.
You need to keep making slingshots even if you never sell them, because it's always good to have something to do when you just want to get away from it all.
Good luck guys maybe if I would have had the ambition to start a business at your age I'd be a lot happier now.


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## USASlingshot (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks. We will start making laminates as soon as we get practice... And we will try our best to fix the problems you have found. Thank you everyone who has contributed


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