# cement / concrete or plaster for ammo?



## gamekeeper john (Apr 11, 2011)

i was just thinking to myself has anyone ever tried somthing like cement or plaster as ammo, all you do is add water, mix it and roll it into whatever size balls you want, i think the cement would be quiet heavy and maybe a good hunting ammo? imagine a 15mm ball made from cement traveling at 250fps? you can get a big 10kg bag for about £5 at almost any hardwear stool, it would make thousands, i would like to weigh a 15mm ball made from cement then put it through the chrony "or a rabbit lol" what do you think? thanks john


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## Bert (Mar 20, 2011)

I rekon it's too light John, even at 15 mm, concrete that is...plaster might be better and would mark a shot well with a puff of dust but for hunting I wouldnt rate it. Try it out though and report the results







)


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## huey224 (Apr 12, 2010)

concrete will be too light and it dosen dry smooth unless you finish it which would take ay too long.
but good idea!


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## mckee (Oct 28, 2010)

Might as well give it a try for a fiver i have some the house may trie tommorow


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## dragonmaster (Dec 24, 2009)

Interesting idea if you give it a go let us know how it comes out.


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

dragonmaster said:


> Interesting idea if you give it a go let us know how it comes out.


I make concrete ammo for my sling, but I make it golf ball sized, at roughly 2 oz weight each.

I use sand/topping mix, which is a mixture of sand and cement to which you add water. I mix it 5 parts dry to 1 part water by volume. I use a small greased cup to measure out equal quantities, then shape it by hand. It doesn't need to be perfectly round for a sling, I can't hit anything with it anyway. <grin> A 60 pound bag is about $5 USD where I live, so ammo runs about a penny a shot.

I have not tried to make slingshot sized ammo with it. I would think you could make 3/4 inch balls that would work pretty much like clay, except slightly heavier, much stronger, and not requiring baking. But on the other hand it is easier to shape clay. I have plenty of the cement mix in the shed, I'll give slingshot ammo a try and let you know.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

If you make concrete ammo you need to make it at least 25 mm or more as it is I make these oval shaped when I have and they are heavy enough to kill..

It helps if you use the kind of concrete that has small gravel in it as it lends weight and density. Its easier to make a long roll and cut sections and smooth then its not round ammo but oval and still very kill effective, down side is they dont last in practice shooting as they can shatter or break if they impact something very hard,

Side note: Many a time when I didnt have stones, I had used chunks of broken concerete as ammo to shoot pigeons with lol.. It kills but its nasty and best at close range within 10 yards tops..

Nico


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## srs45 (May 10, 2011)

Just on a side note timr you don't need to bake clay shot. If you want it closer to steel weight you don't even let it dry fully.

Cheers
James


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## gamekeeper john (Apr 11, 2011)

thanks 4 your imput, i think it would definately work well for target practice,,,, now i'm on a mission to kill a rabbit with a plaster or cement ball on camara lol,,,, john


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

Nico said:


> If you make concrete ammo you need to make it at least 25 mm or more as it is I make these oval shaped when I have and they are heavy enough to kill..
> 
> Nico


How big do people make their clay balls? I've been picturing clay as a substitute for marbles, but 25 mm would be considerably bigger.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

TimR said:


> If you make concrete ammo you need to make it at least 25 mm or more as it is I make these oval shaped when I have and they are heavy enough to kill..
> 
> Nico


How big do people make their clay balls? I've been picturing clay as a substitute for marbles, but 25 mm would be considerably bigger.
[/quote]

I dont use small ammo and if its a clay ball its at least 7/8 inch then it has enough knock down...

Hard baked natural earth clay has more density than modern clays.. I killed a rabbit as a kid with a natural made earth clay rock.. Didnt know it was natural clay until it broke upon impact to the rabbit's head.

Nico


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## srs45 (May 10, 2011)

TimR said:


> If you make concrete ammo you need to make it at least 25 mm or more as it is I make these oval shaped when I have and they are heavy enough to kill..
> 
> Nico


How big do people make their clay balls? I've been picturing clay as a substitute for marbles, but 25 mm would be considerably bigger.
[/quote]

Clay is apparently the same density as glass so the same size clay shot as a marble should be around the same weight. But you can have it heavier if you don't let the inside dry.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

I would think if you could get some Portland you could make yourself some concrete ammo.


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

dgui said:


> I would think if you could get some Portland you could make yourself some concrete ammo.


I made a couple dozen last night using sand/topping mix, which is Portland cement plus sand.

This time I carefully measured quantities: 5 two ounce Dixie cups of mix, 1 of water. It was a bit on the dry side, I had to mist occasionally. I used a bottle cap from a juice jar to measure equal amounts then rolled them by hand. I tried barehanded as an experiment. It dried out my skin but did no damage. However I'd definitely go for gloves next time, you get a smoother ball.

The balls all turned out in the 1 inch range. They've only had 12 hours so I haven't shot one. I'll weigh some tonight and let you know. Then I'm planning on shooting one a day onto something hard like a concrete block just to see how the hardness varies over time.


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## Jacktrevally (Feb 14, 2011)

Important thing is that after 12-18hrs you need to let it cure in water!

At 7days it hardens to 2\3of its strength and 28 days fully.


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## bootneck (Feb 20, 2011)

i used to make cement ammo for my sling as well by cutting a few tennis ball's in half and use them as molds, i think it came out to around 5oz, 
I imagine if you did the same with ping pong ball it would work well too, i used to let them set a bit overnight before opening the mold, portland cement worked best for me.

It'll be good to see a video and i think something around the size of a ping pong ball would be ok for hunting (I, like nico shoot stones, scap metal and generally quite large ammo, i use round or square solids)

I bet for fun a load of swan match heads sealed in a bit of plastic bag and put in the cement, before you molded it would make some good night time results.

The way i made my tennis ball shot was by overfilling both halves of the tennis ball with cement, then squashing both halves together until both havles of the tennis ball met, then just left it overnight.


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## dgui (Jan 12, 2010)

If you werer to mix and pour into say a 1/2 inch lead type mould for ammo the portland could set up nice and round, But, if you would use Rockite instead it would set up very quickly and a pound or two of Rockite would yeild a lot of ammo and cheap and dries very hard also it can expand but cement will contract. You dont have to use your hands to mix this stuff.  Putting your hands in cement while it is still wet can significantly burn your hands and it is toxic when wet and the body is like a sponge as it absorbs minerals from the wet mix.


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

dgui said:


> If you werer to mix and pour into say a 1/2 inch lead type mould for ammo the portland could set up nice and round,


I think you can probably make cement balls of any given size very cheaply, and it will perform like marbles except not quite as round.

I'm not sure it's worth the effort because making them is very time consuming and marbles are fairly cheap anyway.

I have to ask myself if I'd rather spend time shooting ammo or making ammo.


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## Jacktrevally (Feb 14, 2011)

You'll probably require mould oil to ease de-moulding! Or else the laiton of the cement grout will affect your mould!!!!


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

Another way to add density either concrete or natural clay ammo is to add a fine grade of iron fillings.. Then the ammo would be more impactful, keep in mind that people in Europe have used plain earth clay baked ammo in their stone crossbows to hunt birds up in the trees at night.

That is a historical fact.. They were used in 14th and 15 century to hunt Rooks up in the trees with lamps in England and othe parts of Europe.


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## Sleepy (Mar 31, 2011)

The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.

That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

Sleepy said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


The density of concrete is roughly the same as aluminum or glass (as in marbles).

Unlike aluminum or glass ammo, you can make your own, and as you say it is cheap.

Many people make their own clay ammo, and concrete is roughly twice as dense as clay.

Steel is roughly 3 times as dense as concrete, and lead 5 times. Steel is impossible for the amateur to melt, though some do cast lead.

So you have to ask what material is fair to compare against. Concrete vs steel? No, because nobody make their own steel. Concrete vs clay seems more reasonable because of the number of people who do make their own clay shot

I made a couple dozen concrete balls of roughly 1 inch diameter as an experiment. Weighing 10 they average about .9 oz or 24 grams each.

After 24 hours i shot one into a hanging backstop and recovered it, shot it at a concrete block and it splattered leaving a mud spot on the block. 24 hours later I shot the next one at the block, it cracked neatly in half. (I mean the shot cracked, not the block: I'm no Joerg.)


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## Sleepy (Mar 31, 2011)

TimR said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


The density of concrete is roughly the same as aluminum or glass (as in marbles).

Unlike aluminum or glass ammo, you can make your own, and as you say it is cheap.

Many people make their own clay ammo, and concrete is roughly twice as dense as clay.

Steel is roughly 3 times as dense as concrete, and lead 5 times. Steel is impossible for the amateur to melt, though some do cast lead.

So you have to ask what material is fair to compare against. Concrete vs steel? No, because nobody make their own steel. Concrete vs clay seems more reasonable because of the number of people who do make their own clay shot

I made a couple dozen concrete balls of roughly 1 inch diameter as an experiment. Weighing 10 they average about .9 oz or 24 grams each.

After 24 hours i shot one into a hanging backstop and recovered it, shot it at a concrete block and it splattered leaving a mud spot on the block. 24 hours later I shot the next one at the block, it cracked neatly in half. (I mean the shot cracked, not the block: I'm no Joerg.)
[/quote]

Would you please tell us how you shaped or molded them?


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

Sleepy said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


The density of concrete is roughly the same as aluminum or glass (as in marbles).

Unlike aluminum or glass ammo, you can make your own, and as you say it is cheap.

Many people make their own clay ammo, and concrete is roughly twice as dense as clay.

Steel is roughly 3 times as dense as concrete, and lead 5 times. Steel is impossible for the amateur to melt, though some do cast lead.

So you have to ask what material is fair to compare against. Concrete vs steel? No, because nobody make their own steel. Concrete vs clay seems more reasonable because of the number of people who do make their own clay shot

I made a couple dozen concrete balls of roughly 1 inch diameter as an experiment. Weighing 10 they average about .9 oz or 24 grams each.

After 24 hours i shot one into a hanging backstop and recovered it, shot it at a concrete block and it splattered leaving a mud spot on the block. 24 hours later I shot the next one at the block, it cracked neatly in half. (I mean the shot cracked, not the block: I'm no Joerg.)
[/quote]

Would you please tell us how you shaped or molded them?
[/quote]

Sure.

I've been doing this for sling ammo, which is much larger. It was trickier for slingshot sized, and I didn't do it well the first time. (and that may be the only time)

I use sand/topping mix, which is cement plus sand, and very cheap by the bag in the big box stores.

I mix it 5:1 with water, which leaves it a bit dry. You can't pour it but you can mold it by hand.

I quickly measure out equal quantities with a small measuring cup. I can't do this by eye, and equal quantities is the key to consistency. I do this on waxed paper.

Then I come back and squeeze each one by hand into a round shape, then a quick roll between hands to smooth the surface. It takes only seconds each. I can't get them as nicely shaped as clay though.


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## Sleepy (Mar 31, 2011)

TimR said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


The density of concrete is roughly the same as aluminum or glass (as in marbles).

Unlike aluminum or glass ammo, you can make your own, and as you say it is cheap.

Many people make their own clay ammo, and concrete is roughly twice as dense as clay.

Steel is roughly 3 times as dense as concrete, and lead 5 times. Steel is impossible for the amateur to melt, though some do cast lead.

So you have to ask what material is fair to compare against. Concrete vs steel? No, because nobody make their own steel. Concrete vs clay seems more reasonable because of the number of people who do make their own clay shot

I made a couple dozen concrete balls of roughly 1 inch diameter as an experiment. Weighing 10 they average about .9 oz or 24 grams each.

After 24 hours i shot one into a hanging backstop and recovered it, shot it at a concrete block and it splattered leaving a mud spot on the block. 24 hours later I shot the next one at the block, it cracked neatly in half. (I mean the shot cracked, not the block: I'm no Joerg.)
[/quote]

Would you please tell us how you shaped or molded them?
[/quote]

Sure.

I've been doing this for sling ammo, which is much larger. It was trickier for slingshot sized, and I didn't do it well the first time. (and that may be the only time)

I use sand/topping mix, which is cement plus sand, and very cheap by the bag in the big box stores.

I mix it 5:1 with water, which leaves it a bit dry. You can't pour it but you can mold it by hand.

I quickly measure out equal quantities with a small measuring cup. I can't do this by eye, and equal quantities is the key to consistency. I do this on waxed paper.

Then I come back and squeeze each one by hand into a round shape, then a quick roll between hands to smooth the surface. It takes only seconds each. I can't get them as nicely shaped as clay though.
[/quote]

Thats interesting I'll see if I can do it too.


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## Nico (Sep 10, 2010)

Sleepy said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


Well if that was directed at me then its in inaccurate reply as "iron fillings" are obviously not aluminum are they?


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## Sleepy (Mar 31, 2011)

Nico said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


Well if that was directed at me then its in inaccurate reply as "iron fillings" are obviously not aluminum are they?
[/quote]

I'm terrably sorry I upset you. I may have vaguely been thinking of Gamkeeper John's question in the title. Please accept my apology.


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## TimR (May 22, 2011)

Sleepy said:


> The density of concrete is the same as aluminum. That is to say the volume and weight are the same for each material. Nobody shoots aluminum ammo. The price is the only advantage I can see. That is if my time were really, really cheap too.
> 
> That sounded like a rude contradiction. I meant it in a nice way tho.


Well if that was directed at me then its in inaccurate reply as "iron fillings" are obviously not aluminum are they?
[/quote]

I'm terrably sorry I upset you. I may have vaguely been thinking of Gamkeeper John's question in the title. Please accept my apology.
[/quote]

I'm sure you could use cement to bind iron filings, just like I use cement to bind sand. The strength is in the fill, not the binder. But iron filings are $8 USD per pound, so we're getting away from cheap ammo.


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