# Check out the NEW Pocket Predator web site!



## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Who has recently logged onto Pocket Predator and seen the new web site? Easy to navigate and additional items in the accessories category. Particularly the Pro Clip options now available. Ever since Bill sent me the Ergo Ranger aka: The Python with Pro Clips with a sight included on one of the clips, I've been lusting after adding the Pro Clip sites to my other PP slingshots. Now there are eight available variations for the Pro Clips. The sights can be ordered individually so that they can be added to those slingshots with Pro Clips that do not have the sight on them. Or you can order a pair of Pro Clips with or without the sight.

I've actually been considering sending Bill an email asking if the Pro Clips with the sight might be available. Well he has done his customer research and made them available on the new web sight. I will be taking inventory tomorrow of my slingshots and ordering Pro Clips with sights for several of my Pocket Predator slingshots and maybe even for a few others that aren't PP slingshots as well. Might even order a SERE while I'm at it. I don't have that one.

If you have not experienced the ease of banding a slingshot with the all metal unbreakable Pro Clips you're missing out on something. Now even better with the sight availability offered. Not just my opinion, but fact that the Pro Clips far outshine any no tie band attachment currently available.

Just go to PocketPredator.com even if it is just to check out the new sight available on the Pro Clips. They work great with the line drawn down the middle of the top band for aiming as Bill shows on his aiming video.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

If only BH would get his site properly designed - its so Web 2.0... Simple shot is so much better in that regard,. Bill can't rely solely on his 'fame' to sell frames... a better site would be better business.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

Great review Jolly Roger


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I will take a great slingshot over a great web site any day of the week, month or year. Some sell the sizzle and some sell the steak.


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## brucered (Dec 30, 2015)

Has the site changed in the past two years? It looks the same to me?

A link would help.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

He moved the buttons... Now along the top 

JR - to be honest - good design is selling the sizzle. I feel quite let down by his site generally. The information is extremely busy and difficult to read. In this day and age and for a modest cost (a cost of a few frames) he could make his site so much better. You can't tell me that would not make a difference to his bottom line. I'd go as far as to say he's probably loosing sales and money as a result. The fact you totally missed his accessories button before is a case in point - its been there for ages...

And to be frank - many of the slingshot retail sites are pretty rudimentary - but the PP site is particularly bad - especially as its meant to be mainstream.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Matt: Have you shared your thought with Bill? With specific points for improvements. It works for me but I appreciate the added information he supplies vs. a simple short and sweet wham bam thank you mam approach designed just to drum up sales.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Yes I did actually - a few months ago. Even offered my assistance. Problem is younger guys have a totally different approach to online shopping than anyone older than say 25-30. Thinks need to be simpler and more user friendly period. Simple Shot does this much better (but also not ideally). Nathan's site is arguably probably the best slingshot retail site I know of.

Bill Hays has such a wealth of information and does make some fantastic product. Its sad he forked out 100K's on moulds for his new frames and nothing on his site - just seems counter-productive. I'd even admit that his clip system is extremely well priced for what it is.

I'd say that if it weren't for his online fame through youtube he'd probably be struggling.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

You have brought up a good question Matt. Now to do a survey of how old the average slingshot shooter is. How old is the new slingshot shooter just getting started? Is the 25-30 or even 15-30 crowd getting into slingshots? How many slingshot shooters are over 40-50-60? How many are so rushed they have to have a web site that is pretty vs. one that offers a wealth of information?


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Well. The members here tend to be an older set it seems (the ones that stick at least). though looking at some of the 'carnage' hunting videos there is a definite group of youngsters who are keen - they tend to pop by here from time to time as well. Youtube - seems to give a better indication of whats going on at different age groups. The younger set do need mentoring... tough in this day and age.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

The youngins have always needed mentoring in any day and age. It is up to the old timers to provide that mentoring for them.


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## Hobbit With A Slingshot (Mar 14, 2017)

I actually don't mind the pocket predator website design. Could it be improved? Sure, but that's the way it goes for everything in life. Yes, the Simple Shot website has a sleeker, newer layout, and is quite user friendly. I think the PP website just requires a little bit of exploring to get familiar with it. Yes, a website design closer to Simple Shot's might very well help him sell his products better, but I do think that his slingshots speak for themselves. I agree that his product descriptions are interesting to read, however, if the basic description of the product was at the top of the text column, with the story underneath, that would certainly make it easier to sort through the information. I really like the color scheme and background that Bill has, I think that whatever he does with the site, those should stay the same.

Another way to look at this is that the Pocket Predator website requires a little more effort to use than Simpleshot's, but hey, great stuff on both.

I'm interested in the buckle clamps, and would like to get some for a scorpion I'm making, but A.) I'm nearly done making it and am not sure if the fork tips are big enough, and B.) I'm both cheap and busy  When (Not "if") I make another scorpion, I think I'll get the buckle clamps for it, so as to get the fork tips right. But hey, most of Bill's custom Scorpions are tie only, so why not imitate the master?


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I have a 2014 signed g10 custom Scorpion that I scored in a trade that has the Pro Clips/buckles on it. Well you did say most not all. And I do not think it distracts from the appearance of the slingshot at all.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Jolly Roger said:


> The youngins have always needed mentoring in any day and age. It is up to the old timers to provide that mentoring for them.


I agree, thats a fact of life really - Think that its become a lot more difficult to facilitate that these days.

Hobbit - I'd guess from that response you're over 30 then ;-)


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Perhaps in some ways it may be difficult. But a lot of people like Bill Hays, Nathan Masters, Big Dan and a host of others are reaching hundreds or thousands of people they would never reach in a one on one face to face situation. I can't begin to mention everyone on the list of slingshot videos that have tutored me and they don't even have a clue who I am or that I watched their videos.


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## Hobbit With A Slingshot (Mar 14, 2017)

JR-It's not that I think the clips will detract from the look of the frame, it's just that I don't want any of the metal hanging out over the edge, and I'm not sure if I have enough space on the fork tips to accommodate the mounting hole. I probably should've ordered the clips first and adjusted my template as needed, but I was getting impatient.

MW-You're off by about 12 years there my friend. I got into slingshots shortly before I turned 14.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Hobbit: The next Scorpion you make will be at least 10-20% better than the last one. I have the same concern regarding putting the Pro Clips on some of my smaller and narrower slingshots. Will most likely end up selling them or trading for something with Pro Clips installed.


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

If only BH would get his site properly designed - its so Web 2.0...

*Actually ... it's so Bill Hays, an authentic Texas gentleman. I'm guessing that slick marketing isn't as important to him as being true to himself - a very unique individual. *

*Of course I don't speak for him, but I'd be surprised if he had multiple sales during the year and point systems et al. That might be like John Wayne selling cars, pilgrim.*


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Don't go on the site anymore. Did when he made the customs and G10 frames. But have no interest in mass produced polycarbonate slingshots. I'll take one well made custom over 100 injection molded slingshots. Just like I'll take one custom 22 caliber rifle over 20 -$150 dollar cheapies.

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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Cjw said:


> Don't go on the site anymore. Did when he made the customs and G10 frames. But have no interest in mass produced polycarbonate slingshots. I'll take one well made custom over 100 injection molded slingshots. Just like I'll take one custom 22 caliber rifle over 20 -$150 dollar cheapies.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


How many matches have you lit with your custom slingshots ? Just curious .


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

treefork said:


> Cjw said:
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> > Don't go on the site anymore. Did when he made the customs and G10 frames. But have no interest in mass produced polycarbonate slingshots. I'll take one well made custom over 100 injection molded slingshots. Just like I'll take one custom 22 caliber rifle over 20 -$150 dollar cheapies.
> ...


 Seems to me some of the top slingshot shooters in the world I've never seen posting videos of themselves lighting matches. In fact I've never seen the top person who post those videos win the ECST. Or any other championship. So what's your point? Don't remember Nathan posting lighting matches how many times has he won the ECST. Not everyone thinks because you can light a match makes you the greatest slingshot shooter.

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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Cjw said:


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You still didn't answer the question ?


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Well ????


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

treefork said:


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 what's your point not all of us are interested in tooting are own horn on video. You light match good for you will all bow now. If you light a match with a natural that's not going to make me want to shoot naturals.

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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

It's a simple question ?


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

treefork said:


> It's a simple question ?


 I can see I've angered the slingshot gods. Get over it. I have no interest anymore in polycarbonate slingshots I don't care if you can light a million matches with one. If thats what floats your boat have at it.

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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

You're way out of line Chris . Way out of line !


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

*Whew, what a talkative, chatty Sunday it's been. We have a perfect fall day here, I'm headed out back to shoot a little and work in the cave. :wave:*


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

treefork said:


> You're way out of line Chris . Way out of line !


 l made the statement that I had no interest in mass produced slingshots. I like G10 , micarta types. It's fine if others want to shoot them trying to find what they like. I've been through that. I have the money to shoot what ever I want. I didn't want this to become a pissing match. I've never had an issue with you and I don't want to start now. We all have are likes.

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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Cjw said:


> Don't go on the site anymore. Did when he made the customs and G10 frames. But have no interest in mass produced polycarbonate slingshots. I'll take one well made custom over 100 injection molded slingshots. Just like I'll take one custom 22 caliber rifle over 20 -$150 dollar cheapies.
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


My issue is this post . Why would you do this ??? Who are you ? What was your agenda ??? The original poster had a positive message about a long time PAYING vendor of this forum . I have the utmost respect for Bill Hays and his business and appreciate all his contributions to this sport over the years . He is a personal friend . I keep my mouth shut 99.9 % of the time but when someone craps on my friends I will NOT sit quiet . That is my agenda .


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

treefork said:


> Cjw said:
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> 
> > Don't go on the site anymore. Did when he made the customs and G10 frames. But have no interest in mass produced polycarbonate slingshots. I'll take one well made custom over 100 injection molded slingshots. Just like I'll take one custom 22 caliber rifle over 20 -$150 dollar cheapies.
> ...


 I have no agenda I loved Bills customs one of the great slingshot builders , great designs it just looks like a step down from all his past work. I know he trying to make it affordable to the masses. Now it seems if you want a real custom you have to buy from Europe. In our country it's seems cheaper is always better I don't agree. Felt the same when Beeman precision arms sold to marksman and quit selling the better airguns. Again have to buy the better guns from Europe. There are still people that want top of the line stuff out here.

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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Cjw said:


> treefork said:
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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Well the bottom line here . The greatest advantage to our beloved slingshot sport is the inexpensive simplicity allows any one to participate . That is just not so with other shooting sports mostly due to cost and secondary is ability to have places to shoot along with legalities from place to place . Once you eliminate all the newb mistakes the shooting can be taken indoors . For little money you're in and not limited by the inability to afford a custom masterpiece . It kind of levels the playing ground competitively speaking . The guy with the custom is not granted the advantage . A good set of bands and a comfortable frame and the rest is up to you . Nothing against customs but their not necessary to be involved on ANY level of this sport . Given the extreme affordability and opportunity to shoot frequently allows anyone to achieve proficiency with the desire , proper mindset and intelligent fun practice . There is no reason why this sport can't grow enormously .


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

treefork said:


> Well the bottom line here . The greatest advantage to our beloved slingshot sport is the inexpensive simplicity allows any one to participate . That is just not so with other shooting sports mostly due to cost and secondary is ability to have places to shoot along with legalities from place to place . Once you eliminate all the newb mistakes the shooting can be taken indoors . For little money you're in and not limited by the inability to afford a custom masterpiece . It kind of levels the playing ground competitively speaking . The guy with the custom is not granted the advantage . A good set of bands and a comfortable frame and the rest is up to you . Nothing against customs but their not necessary to be involved on ANY level of this sport . Given the extreme affordability and opportunity to shoot frequently allows anyone to achieve proficiency with the desire , proper mindset and intelligent fun practice . There is no reason why this sport can't grow enormously .


 whats going to limit the sport is liability. I've tried setting up larger shoots but the property owners don't want the liability issues. We have a soccer field at my airgun club.when I brought up setting up a slingshot match there was shot down quickly.

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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

No reason to let a turn down stop slingshot tournaments. There are other locations. Even private owned properties are possibilities for shooting. Local rural landowners could be willing to host such events. Gotta contact more than one venue.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Jolly Roger said:


> No reason to let a turn down stop slingshot tournaments. There are other locations. Even private owned properties are possibilities for shooting. Local rural landowners could be willing to host such events. Gotta contact more than one venue.


 contacted over a dozen.Soon as you mention shooting anything you get the look . You see the look in their eyes. Their saying I don't think so scooter.

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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Cjw said:


> treefork said:
> 
> 
> > Well the bottom line here . The greatest advantage to our beloved slingshot sport is the inexpensive simplicity allows any one to participate . That is just not so with other shooting sports mostly due to cost and secondary is ability to have places to shoot along with legalities from place to place . Once you eliminate all the newb mistakes the shooting can be taken indoors . For little money you're in and not limited by the inability to afford a custom masterpiece . It kind of levels the playing ground competitively speaking . The guy with the custom is not granted the advantage . A good set of bands and a comfortable frame and the rest is up to you . Nothing against customs but their not necessary to be involved on ANY level of this sport . Given the extreme affordability and opportunity to shoot frequently allows anyone to achieve proficiency with the desire , proper mindset and intelligent fun practice . There is no reason why this sport can't grow enormously .
> ...


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I mentioned yesterday in the Newbie Introductions on Hello from Paso Robles that Keith from the forum and a friend spent three hours helping clean up my yard/barn area.I bar-b-qued afterwards to show my appreciation for their efforts. Been neglecting things for three years due to chronic heart failure. Keith came by to shoot with me last month and I gave him a slingshot. I invited him and his friend to come shoot with me anytime and they both showed their excitement at the opportunity.....kinda like cjw going to the mountains with his compadres to shoot slingshots and have some friendly competition. Just address the opportunities as the arise. No need to give up after contacting only a dozen possibilities.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks Jolly Roger,

The website, like most everything involved with this slingshot hobby, now turned into a business... I try to do as much myself as possible.

That way if something just doesn't look right... or information is wrong, I have no one to blame except myself.

Every time I've tried to use outside help on other things in the development of slingshots and related, it's been something of an expensive nightmare... huge expenses, lack of control and in the end the NECESSITY of having someone else do things simply because I don't have the knowledge and or expertise to get it done like I want it done... but then they don't either, until more money and less control is thrown at the problem.

Sure, for the website, I know I could put in some trick pony programming... have expanding columns and windows, on mouseover enlargements and all the other little tricks and fluff so many think makes a great site... But I just don't feel that way. Basic and straightforward is much more to my liking. There's a link, you go to that place and see what you're expecting... to me, that's the best way.

As to colors and layout, since I have light sensitive eyes... I made it a color behind the text that doesn't burn your eyes after reading for more than a minute (like this forum does to me)... I know black is many people's choice in that regard, but they would be wrong. Black with white lettering tends to "burn" itself into your eyes so that you can still see it as an overlay or after-image when viewing pictures after reading it for more than a few seconds.

Another quirk of mine includes, since I'm a fan of reality and not fantasy when it comes to weapons... all my pictures are just pictures taken of the product... very little staging and no photoshopping except cropping and adding titles or captions... that way when a customer gets the actual product it always looks and feels much better than the pictures, instead of the other way around like it is for others.

Would I consider another person's views on my website and what could be done to improve it... Well of course I would. It would be the height of stupidity to think I'm the end all expert on what can be done or what looks best to others... So yes I do appreciate critics and constructive criticism... but tend to just ignore offers to redo my entire site for the cost of just a few frames... Like I said, it's a control issue.

I mean, what would happen if all the sudden one day the programmer drops dead or just loses interest, and I have updates I want to do... then I'm stuck.... trying to figure out someone else's coding and what does what.

Anyway, I could be wrong.... I've been wrong before, many times... but I've yet to see something that would change my mind about my website layout and presentation, at present.

To All,

Please don't get me wrong... if you see something that does need to be addressed... and it's not color or style, or simply personal preference... then please, by all means let me know!


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Cjw said:


> Cjw said:
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I told you before.... I'm simply not going to make very many customs anymore. I've had health issues, that my Wife insists are because of dealing with the toxic dust and gases given off from some of them while being made... She said I was coughing to much when asleep and then the more recent jaundice thing... means that the only customs I make will be for masters in production.

And that's actually a GOOD thing... because using the techniques I've helped develop in making molds... no longer do we need to make slingshots that fit a mold and are therefore basically flat, with a flat part line that fit's a flat mold.... Now we as slingshot designers can ALL make truly creative and ergonomic pieces that will fit just like a custom, but made from arguably better materials for the purpose.

So instead of creating a slingshot using CAD, so that IT fits a mold properly.... Now you can make a Custom piece by hand to fit the hand, the shooter and his preferences just right, and then the mold is designed to fit the slingshot instead of the other way around.

You're upset that I won't make customs anymore... well think of it this way instead... I make thousands of them. The pieces used as Masters were/are customs and exact duplicates are made from them.

BTW,

Tournaments are a fickle thing... some go to "make a statement", some go just to hang out shoot and enjoy friendly competition nothing to intense, and some go just to hang out and shoot a little with friends.... For the most part, I place myself in the middle category... I go there to socialize, take part in friendly banter and enjoy some friendly competition... I don't like to try and act like and I've never said I am the best at this stuff... although I can hold my own, even though I don't use a light target setup like everyone else.

I light matches, cut cards and do interesting shots mainly to show what a slingshot is capable of... so that when someone looks down on us in some way, we can show them the error in their thinking and ways... because if I can do it, and I'm certainly not the best shot, then someone like them can do it as well... just a little practice and do what we show how to do... and they'll soon be outshooting little 'ole me!

Now, speaking of the best.... the best shot I've seen.... and I've shot with the best we've got to offer... IS Treefork. I've spent hours shooting with him at the MWST and it's really kind of amazing what he can do with a slingshot... and believe me, I'm not easily amazed!


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Bill Hays said:


> Cjw said:
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 Its just sad Bill than other than a couple guys in the US you have to order from Great Britain to get a hand made custom anymore. Made how you want it. we've gone away from almost anything custom or hand made in our country anymore. There still some of us willing to pay the extra costs associated with the hand made stuff.

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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Not going to make anymore customs. I have two comments about that.

1. I sure can't tell that the cast aluminum I have is not a custom. As you mentioned Bill, it is in fact a custom or at least a duplicate of the original custom slingshot.

2. Makes me glad I was able to pull off a couple of trades. One here on the forum for a 2014 signed Seal Sniper with Pro Clips. It is a real beauty and fun shooter. The other off of eBay, an HTS g10. No Pro Clips on this one but it was worth the price just to have to hang on the wall and to practice tying bands on and shooting on occasion.

3. I have the Poly Side Shooter and Ranger Tac with the no tie band attachments of course. Other than the lighter weight, as far as I am concerned it is the same as a custom and shoots just as well. There is an HTS for $35 on eBay with local delivery only. Seems the Poly's hold their value. At least in the mind of those who purchase them. I like them because as you state they are not flat but fitted to the human hand.

4. Those who are making the molded slingshots are doing something to keep the slingshot sport moving forward for everyone. Not just for those who can fork out (could not resist that one) big bucks for a room full of custom pretty slingshots. $35 versus $100-$200 or more will attract new shooters to the sport.

5. I had the good fortune to order the Alley Cat from the get go and had no fork hits and am lucky that I had no fork hits shooting rocks with my A+ Kit Fox with the wide forks. But it wasn't long after I began shooting my custom SPS that I got my first fork hit. I should have been shooting a molded version of that frame and learned to shoot it without fork hits before shooting the custom. The molded slingshots are a great place for the newcomer to get started.

6. If the sport of slingshot shooting is going to grow and remain popular, we'll need others to continue molding and making slingshots when the few top makers decide to retire.

7. I like the simplicity of your web site and the no frills design. I also appreciate that there are no specials or sales gimmicks to encourage buyers on special sales offers. We or most of us are able to recognize the sales for what they are and me anyway always wonder just how much profit is being made when products can be offered for reduced prices. When a product is offered for half price or even $10 off that throws up a flag to me that even with the sales price a profit is being made and makes me not want to pay full price because I am now aware that the price has been doubled.

8. Every time I start up my Ford F-150 and drive down the road I am broadcasting to the world that I am a Ford fan and prefer a Ford Pickup over other makes and models. So, I'm certainly not ashamed to do the same for my favorite slingshot maker.

9. Am I willing to change my mind and do whatever it takes to keep everyone else happy and not complaining about my views? Of course not, not anymore than others are expected to change their minds and conform to my viewpoints. I recognize that will not happen. But doesn't keep me from speaking out. Everyone has the right to be wrong.

10. Keep doing what you're doing. It is working. Consider how many are on this forum and consider how few are making negative comments. Always seems like our society is expecting that changes be made because a small minority is protesting and making a stink because things don't suit them.

Thanks Bill for all you have done for me. I've gained so much information and encouragement from your videos. You have gone above and way beyond what anyone could or should expect from a slingshot maker. Really nice to see a down to earth Texan with no false pretenses putting himself out there to teach us new comers to the slingshot sport how it is done and what we can hope to accomplish.

Jolly


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Jolly Roger said:


> Not going to make anymore customs. I have two comments about that.
> 
> 1. I sure can't tell that the cast aluminum I have is not a custom. As you mentioned Bill, it is in fact a custom or at least a duplicate of the original custom slingshot.
> 
> ...




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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Here's an example of what we've become in airguns The best of the US match pistols Daisy 777 other than the skanaker which was short lived. European air pistol Morini 162 EI. Electronic trigger.
















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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I don't want to go that way with slingshots.

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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Looks like some of those European custom slingshots.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Bill Hays said:


> Thanks Jolly Roger,
> 
> The website, like most everything involved with this slingshot hobby, now turned into a business... I try to do as much myself as possible.
> 
> ...


Hi Bill

Look in theory there is nothing wrong with the site. It obviously does work in a home-grown way. But by addressing a few fundamentals it could be a much nicer place to visit.

While I get where you are coming from - and to keep as much in-house is a good idea. And I can go on to agree that black on white (or vice versa) needs to be considered as it can be pretty harsh... However viewing technology has changed dramatically over the last few years - your site is not responsive so does not particularly support mobile devices (and seeing how the code is structured (its a simple approach thats for sure) does not mean making it responsive will be all that easy.

There are a number of simple approaches that you can take which have a minimal cost (if any) that would resolve this and many other issues... Like you have spent years honing your slingshot designs I have spent working on layouts and websites. A new website approach should not mean taking control away from you in any way, that would be counter intuitive.

Anyway - not going to flog a dead one-trick-pony. It you're keen on a dialogue PM me.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Understand something Matt, as a website owner with a listed email address... I get many offers, sometimes several in a day to redo and update my site-s... I also get higher and favored listing offers, offers for loans and even the occasional Nigerian Prince leaving me money as well... So you can see how I take criticism from potential programmers with a grain of salt... Because for the most part, the guys offering to do what they say haven't even been to my site, they give zero information on what they might do to improve it and no specifics on what the problems may be...

Now you come along on a public forum and state that my site is one of the worst, if not the worst of the slingshot sites... that it doesn't work on mobile devices, the structure is bad and that it's not responsive.

Well here's the thing... I happen to own a smart phone, well five if you count all on my service plan... all are different, all from different years and manufacturers... and when I pull up my site on any of them, it loads fine and is perfectly legible... I also have at least 4 different Kindles and one Android tablet, plus 4 different computers.... and the site loads and acts fine on all of them as well.

When you say it's not working for you... it's unresponsive and whatever else... I'm going to need more specifics than just that.

Also, just to be clear... I _may_ be shopping for an expert, even though I prefer to keep it in-house... but I will need to see examples of YOUR work, to see if it's so much better than what I've already got, first...

So if you'll get me a list of your favorite three websites that you've done, that are comparable in content and intent... meaning limited product sales sites... I'll certainly take a look at them and determine (to me) if they are a lot better, and if I can see the benefit of your services, then yes, I will take advantage of them then.

But please Matt, list them here so others can have input and criticism as well... If they're great, then you shouldn't mind posting, and in fact it'd be a good move on your part.

PLUS, I happen to own a lot more urls than just pocketpredator.com .... some of them have real potential to make big money... and one has next level money making potential.

BTW. I saw your post on the well nuts, and did think it was a good idea for some... if that's what they'd like. So I bought some and put them on at the end of the list for internal nut serts...

So you know, if I see something that seems like a good idea, I really don't have a problem implementing it... and I don't have a problem recognizing and crediting the one who had the idea in the first place either.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Bill. All I'm doing is offering my help. If you want it thats cool. If not then it gives me a little extra time with the kids. I'm not necessarily looking for remuneration. Just know your site can be approached differently - and that it would be a good thing. Trust me, I know exactly where you are coming from.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Dear Bill

Tricky as once designed often sites are run by clients and they tend to mess things up a bit (esp. startups) - but here goes a few (not all retail). Also taken out of context you are not aware of the collaborations and scope they were created within. usually I start working from the logo up (but not in all cases)

Kernoda.com

activehound.co.uk

bramwithconsulting.co.uk

syntec.co.uk

proctorandclark.co.uk (was retail - and became trade only - I can send you the visual of the category and product pages etc.)

sugglighting.co.uk

vetting-software.com

stilldelicious.co.uk

Loads loads more... So many come and go. At one stage was probably turning out 1 retail site a week.


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## Tremoside (Jul 17, 2013)

Thanks for the ideas! I was focusing on Susan Weinschenk and Nir Eyal on making up choice driven websites. Now I have to redraw my plan. Looking for channeling all the time. 

Web is something we all have to take seriously. True for my sites for sure 

Cheers,

T


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

mattwalt said:


> Dear Bill
> 
> Tricky as once designed often sites are run by clients and they tend to mess things up a bit (esp. startups) - but here goes a few (not all retail). Also taken out of context you are not aware of the collaborations and scope they were created within. usually I start working from the logo up (but not in all cases)
> 
> ...


Well Matt, you have some nicely designed sites there... although on a couple (not your fault) I'm still not quite certain what they actually do... and that still delicious site... really quite a brilliant idea and good presentation!

As for something that might work for my particular situation, I especially like the sugg lighting site.... I can see something along that line and format to be certainly doable.

Anyway, you've certainly given me something to think about... I'll probably be in touch at some time.


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## suttonjp (Oct 23, 2017)

Been following this exchannge and I, also, would encourage Mr. Hays to think about site improvements. I hunted around on several sites, PP included, before settling on a couple slingshots to get me started. I will probably try out a PP in the future, but I went with another maker and the bottom line was their website was easier to navigate.

Im sure there are plenty of people who like hunting around on a website and digging through interesting stuff to get to what they're searching for. But, these days, those folks are a minority.

I've got a ton of respect for Mr. Hays. I've learned a great deal from his videos and his site. I'm new to this sport and it didn't take me long to realize that his contributions are immense. But, when it was time to buy, I went to a site that was set up to sell slingshots.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

I'll be looking forward to any changes that take place. I'm not all that up on computer stuff and don't mind the current PP website. I'd prefer to buy the steak not just the sizzle. Butt gotta hand it to Matt, that sugglighting.co.uk website is impressive. I can just imagine Pocket Predator slingshots pictures instead of the fancy lights.


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

*Marketing has become such a religion.*

*On the Simple-shot website, there are constant annoying pop-ups that say someone in Butt Scratch Montana just bought kangaroo pouches (who cares) and currently, there's a countdown clock showing to the second when the pumpkin spice special will expire. The experience is similar to a PBS fundraising telethon.*

*I get it, it's capitalism, but the first law of advertising is - learn how to fake sincerity. The business world is dominated by third party advertising/marketing specialists, many of whom peddle conformity, social engineering, and gimmickry. We've become targeted demographic consumption units - and paypal is preferred. *

*There are consequences for insipid advertising (I wouldn't have Progressive Insurance even for free) and we wear the color off the mute buttons. My point is - **I would miss the down home uniquity of the PP website. *


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Well said Alfred.


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## Oneproudmeximan (May 20, 2013)

I got my eye on them gen 2 scorpions


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Bill - interesting you mention Sugg.

Guys - If Bill were to take up my consideration he would still be in full control of the style and approach of his website. he could keep it looking as homegrown or as slick as he wanted. All I'm suggesting is he's taking a very difficult approach to do what he is trying to do and with a different approach he could make his life much easier but also have a more accessible outcome. Its a win-win for everyone.

Its the same as a guy working on a board cut for months with a file - and being told he actually has a fully stocked workshop in his basement and could make something actually amazing much simpler though while his board cut is workable its only good for BB's. And to be honest I'm surprised Bill has not reached out and punched me for criticising his work. Its in the same league as showing off your kids stick figure masterpiece to be told thats its not exactly a Rembrandt. I have seen how Bill has approached his site structure - and I'm not exactly unimpressed for the approach he's taken he's probably had to figure out old-school how to get it done. These days there are simpler, faster better ways to approach things. I wouldn't follow a Simple Shot approach in this case as he's a different guy with a different personality, it should come through in his branding.

I'd go as far to say that as a custom frame builder his site's probably just fine how it is - though stepping it up to sell 'mass produced' it may be time for a slightly different approach. Bill's work is really great and I've been a fan of his work for some time, though its worth remembering he has a strong online presence and some fame - people want to be able to buy some of that - esp. newbs - so you want a platform that allows them to buy as quickly and as easily as they can.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

I agree with Matt the site looks like something from the dawn of e-commerce. Frankly it doesn't have the vibe of a serious business.

It's not about a good site vs. a good product. The website is a complement to and a means of accessing the product.

And to be quite frank, some users would likely see the ancient looking website and just keep on going. It's a disservice to the artistry of Bill's products.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

By the way I love Bill's line and I love the Poly slingshots.

Not everyone can afford customs and when you are trying to find out what slingshots work best for you I don't think many new shooters want to burn through stacks of $200 frames.

I hope my critique of the site isn't viewed as an insult. I work in IT and have been a Graphic Designer and my best friend is an internet marketing specialist. I want Bill to have a site worthy of the frames he makes.

I would update the site for free (or maybe for a nice frame  if I had a bit of spare time and Bill was so inclined.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Well, that sure dates me. Here I was thinking how the website had improved. A valid point is brought up about the quality of the website matching the quality of the slingshots. Interested to see how this plays out.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

JR may point out your Python was cast in the UK.


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Mat: Yep, I'm aware of that. My Polished Aluminum SPS and Poly SPS also came across the duck pond.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

mattwalt said:


> Bill - interesting you mention Sugg.
> 
> Guys - If Bill were to take up my consideration he would still be in full control of the style and approach of his website. he could keep it looking as homegrown or as slick as he wanted. All I'm suggesting is he's taking a very difficult approach to do what he is trying to do and with a different approach he could make his life much easier but also have a more accessible outcome. Its a win-win for everyone.
> 
> ...


No man, if a guy's right he's right... no need to argue or get mad about it. If something is better it's better... I don't have any notion of stick figures vs. Rembrandt... I learned that lesson in art school...

I was an award winning artist and thought I could pretty well hold my own, then one day I met a lady named Ruth Hobbs in class... now to be honest about it, I'm pretty talented and can draw pretty well anything very well... but when I saw what she was able to produce, I knew there was no way on earth I'd ever be able to come close to her natural talent...

The only time I get upset is when someone personally attacks me for no reason, or if they do something punkish like taking one of my designs or concepts and calling it their own.

Anyway, I've got some ideas that will be fairly unique and new that I'm going to work on... and yes I'll probably need your kind of expertise to pull it off in the end. Right now though and for the next couple weeks I've got some pictures to take and some more thinking to do!


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## Alfred E.M. (Jul 5, 2014)

*JR - you piqued my curiosity, gotta link to the polished aluminum SPS? Thanx. *


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## Jolly Roger (Aug 14, 2017)

Alfred E. Monkeynipples said:


> *JR - you piqued my curiosity, gotta link to the polished aluminum SPS? Thanx. * https://www.stone-spear.com/catapults


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Hmmm. When you first made this post I still had the old site when I pulled it up. Maybe it was a caching issue, I dunno.

I think the new page is actually pretty decent.


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

Bill Hays said:


> Thanks Jolly Roger,
> 
> The website, like most everything involved with this slingshot hobby, now turned into a business... I try to do as much myself as possible.
> That way if something just doesn't look right... or information is wrong, I have no one to blame except myself.
> ...


Hey Bill.

I already replied saying that I took another look and I think the new page is good.

But I wanted to reply specifically so you will get the message, since my above comment could have been taken the wrong way.

I think the new site is serviceable and looks a lot better. I was talking about the older site. I guess my web browser still had the old site cashed when I pulled it up before.

My only complaint is the Taurus II isn't a production model


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Bill's had a crack at styling the site since the post - still pretty old-school in approach but its a long way from what it was. Which isn't a bad thing at all.

But its not very responsive - which is not great for mobile devices...


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## inconvenience (Mar 21, 2016)

mattwalt said:


> Bill's had a crack at styling the site since the post - still pretty old-school in approach but its a long way from what it was. Which isn't a bad thing at all.
> 
> But its not very responsive - which is not great for mobile devices...


Mad did you mean the pull-downs are not very responsive for you? I'm not having any issues on Android with Firefox. But there are so many possible combinations these days.


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