# Penitration test with a caribou skull



## AK Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

Some may recall that I failed to kill marmots on a trip up top not long ago. This is 3/8 inch steel after I did some adjustments on the rig. The heavier .44 lead round balls I now use for hunting pass clean through!!!!!!


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

wow ! thats impressive. whats the distance in the shooting ?


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

Looks good, the heavier stuff gets the job done every time, provided it travelling fast enough.

So roughly how many FPS, and at what distance please ?......

Cheers Allan


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Yep, that heavier ammo just has so much more energy.

Many years ago I was in northern BC in a moose camp with some fellows. One guy had a new 7mm magnum rifle. I was toting a modern Browning single shot .45-70. I was getting a bit of razz from the guy with the 7mm. So I cut a couple of logs about a foot in diameter and stood them up, challenging him to a shoot-off. He fired into a log, and chips flew about. We split the log and found the slug had gone about half way through. I set up 3 logs, one behind the other, and fired into the first one. Not a lot happened, and the 7mm guy started laughing. We split the first log and there was a hole all the way through. Then we split the second log and there was a hole all the way through that. The slug was buried in the third log.

Now, that 7mm mag shoots a pretty light slug at high velocity ... something in the upper 2000 fps. It is a great gun for long distance work on medium sized game because it shoots so flat. That .45-70 was shooting at something less than 2000 fps, with a slug about 405 grains, as I recall. It was ideally suited to heavy bush. If I saw a moose standing behind a tree, I could shoot the thing through the trunk and still get a lethal hit. In my experience, even .30 caliber wounds can seal up very easily, leaving little or no blood trail. But a .45 caliber hole all the way through is gonna pump a lot of blood, and the beast is not going to go far at all. Just imagine a garden hose size hole through the trunk of your body!

The point of my little story is to emphasize that momentum means a lot when it comes to killing. A .44 ball from a slingshot will give tremendous blunt trauma effect. And if you hit bone, skull for example, that heavier ammo will smash a lot more than the lighter ammo will.

Interesting test on that skull. Thanks for the post.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

A bit off topic, but along the lines of Charles post.

The calibre of military rifles now at .223, I personally do not like.

Sure it is fast, and one can carry more rounds; but it deflects easily, and does not have the power punch on through all that much.

But the 7.62, or old 308 round had much more stopping power, and punched on clean through even thick trees etc.

So cover from observation, did not always mean cover from fire.

Cheers Allan


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## AK Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

No idea on the speed folks but this is about a 10 yard shot. I figure 30 feet is about my effective hunting range though I do try and improve on that.

Charles My wife's bear gun is a 45-70, the right load and that round will do AMAZING things!!!! I use the 45-70 on moose here in south central because it is the "perfect brush gun"! Out in areas I can stretch out a bit the 300 min/mag really sings on moose but it's too **** heavy for anything smaller.....provided meat is yer goal.

Allan the 223 is the worst round available! Flat out. It's based on the failed premiss that you can have a "less lethal" round in combat and it made a lot more work for army surgeons. More over it's performance in the field is horrible, tumbling bullets, low velocities and down range energy, plus there were/are already effective light rounds available. They fixed the M-16....sorta but that round is still a stinker!

Well I guess I had better step back while the AR guys line up to pour gasoline on me now.......Ya ya guys whatever, a fart can kill a prairie dog. Drop that AR in the bottom of a leaking boat on the Beaufort sea for a few days, have a 6 year old drop it in knee deep mud then drop a caribou at 250 yards!

PS Tracy is cross eye dominant she is dead on with a bow but needs some help with a rifle.....yes I do know the retraining techniques......for a chick who shots a rifle twice a year?


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## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Hey Rick,

Just a bit off topic ... I started serious deer hunting as a young man with an 8mm mauser. But I got tired of game getting up and trying to walk away even after being shot several times. And I got tired of tracking game shot by my pals. So I started using big bore single shots ... figured better to shoot 'em once and have 'em just stay put.

I really liked my Browning .45-70. But I finally settled on a Ruger single shot .375 H&H magnum as my general all purpose gun ... I hand loaded it for everything from deer to bear and moose. The gun was fairly light, which made for easy carry, but could be brutal to sight it in. However, I never noticed any recoil when shooting game. It shot pretty flat out to 200 yards, which was my limit anyway. I preferred the .45 slug, but liked the ability of the .375 to shoot a bit flatter.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## AK Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

The 375 H&H is very popular here and a great choice. But ya not much fun on the range. I seldom feel a recoil sometimes barely hear the shot on game. Especially bears! And I too am a single shot fan.


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## dannytsg (Jun 16, 2013)

Very nice results there with that. It's always good to see old fashioned ballistic and impact testing.


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## Dr J (Apr 22, 2013)

Great information, thanks for the stories.


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## August West (Jan 21, 2012)

As far as firearms I pretty much only hunt with muzzleloaders now days.

I have shot slingshots pretty much all my life but a couple of years ago when I got serious about it I listened to the "experts" and started out with .36 lead, which for me is much too light for anything but birds, since I have gradually crept up to the point that I shoot 1/2" lead now and am perfectly happy with it and think I have found my all round ammo. With my draw and bands it gives me a plenty flat enough trajectory at the ranges that I shoot and kills well. I do have a .56 caliber smooth bore muzzleloader and would like to get a .55 mould for it and of course I will give them a try in the slingshot as well.


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

AK Rick said:


> Some may recall that I failed to kill marmots on a trip up top not long ago. This is 3/8 inch steel after I did some adjustments on the rig. The heavier .44 lead round balls I now use for hunting pass clean through!!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


So what adjustments did you make to your rig to allow pass-through of .44 lead? And what is the rig/slingshot you are using?

Thanks.


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## Jaximus (Jun 1, 2013)

That's pretty crazy that you can punch through a caribou skull like that, Rick. Dang.

I would like to add a match to some gasoline, though. Personally, I really like the .223 cartridge. It's inexpensive to shoot, easy to reload, there is an endless variety of bullets available, has low recoil, generally gives long barrel life, it's available in just about any type of rifle you could ever want and it's provided more than enough accuracy with every rifle I've ever had chambered for it.

The problem is that some moron decided it would be a good idea to take the .223 and start shooting at people with it. There's nothing wrong with the round at all. It's how it's used that's the problem. I've never had a more accurate rifle than my Savage bolt-action chambered in .223. That thing would shoot 1/2 MOA all day long, but I'd never fire it at anything bigger than a coyote. It's a great target/varmint cartridge, but once you step out of that realm you're in for some trouble.


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## Bob at Draco (Feb 18, 2013)

The .223 is the same as the 5.56mm. It was made first for shooting humans. If you have ever had to tote a rifle around all the time you can start to appreciate the much lighter weight of the 5.56 platform. You are never as tired when the shiite hits the fan and you have a lot more ammo if the fight becomes extended. As you don't want to kill the enemy but wound them, it takes away at least one other soldier to take care of the wounded, none for the dead.

Elmer Keith had it right about hunting with big bores. You can eat right up to the bullet hole as they don't blood shoot as much meat.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand (Jan 28, 2013)

I beg to differ Bob at Draco, and yes I have had tote a large rifle all day for many years, along with heavy ammo; along with food and water etc.

Oh, and in a firefight, real soldiers do not worry about the wounded, but leave that to the medics, until the firefight is over, at least that is what our S.O.P.'s tell me in Australian forces.

And when I have to return fire, or initiate an ambush, I want to know whoever I shoot is not going to get up and go anywhere, much less ever shoot back ever again. And I am afraid for me the 7.62 or .308 round does that every time.

So I guess we will, as adults, just have to agree to disagree, hey.

Cheers Allan


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## AK Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

Jaximus the .223 was designed to shoot at people! Its a military round and like most military rounds it caught on quickly with the general public. Because the military made 100's of thousands more rounds than it needed and there is the "cool factor". I stand by what I said about the round and would be happy to go head to head with a 22-250, 204, 220 swift or just about any other "Light" round you would like to pick. My most accurate bolt gun was also a Savage and there in lies a lot of the reason the rounds down sides have been minimized for you in your experience.

Bob I hike up mountains with a rifle weekly and carry most of the year. 3 oz is NOT enough to make up for that stinkers performance issues and in a combat situation I would much rather a 30cal. For the reasons Allan, Charles and I have already covered.


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## AK Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

Son of the republic

I am shooting a oak fork a friend of mine made for me, it came with "magnum bands" whatever they maybe. What I changed was I shortened the bands WAY up! They are right on the edge of tipping from comfy to shoot and "dang that's like pulling a horse"! I shoot a 65 pound recurve bow comfortably......don't think I am pulling that much with the catty but I am also not expecting a long life from the bands.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

Keep in mid folks this is a skull that laidd on the tundra for god knows how long and lacks all the tissues that normally hold bone together......but it is damn cool!


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

AK Rick said:


> Son of the republic
> 
> I am shooting a oak fork a friend of mine made for me, it came with "magnum bands" whatever they maybe. What I changed was I shortened the bands WAY up! They are right on the edge of tipping from comfy to shoot and "dang that's like pulling a horse"! I shoot a 65 pound recurve bow comfortably......don't think I am pulling that much with the catty but I am also not expecting a long life from the bands.
> 
> ...


Great. Yes, shortening the bands can certainly be one way to increase power.

As has been stated in other threads . . . One way to test hunting power is the soup/bean can penetration test . . . so was just thinkinig along those lines.

Thanks for the response.


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## AK Rick (Jan 11, 2013)

Your welcome! I have a couple of frames to finish, when I band them I will have specifics for you. The soup can test? Yes I did use several as a target before shortening the bands it either completely crushed the can or, about half the time, split the metal on new ones. Haven't tried with the shorter bands yet the skull is a hoot to shoot at!


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