# Political Correctness And Moral Stuff



## Shadowslinger123

I'm thinking of hunting. The game would be the squirrels in the park near my house, but for some reason it just seems underlyingly wrong. I have been over all moral issues with hunting, but for some reason, every time I have a good kill opportunity on a squirrel I change my mind. Why is this? It's legal. I couldn't find a moral discussion about hunting yet on slingshot forum so I thought I'd start one. Don't get me wrong; I'm not coming in here and saying you're all immoral. I just wanted to hear everyone's opinions on the matter. Maybe I'm just scared of the sight of blood. Anyway.

Thanks, shadowslinger123


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## Rayshot

If you want to consider the biblical stance. When Noah came out of the ark after the flood and I am paraphrasing due to time..."Jehovah gave him the allowance to now have animals as food. Just don't eat the blood of the animals. They must be drained and not to eat the blood itself. And this not eating of the blood was kept in place even though the "law" with the 10 commandments were no longer in effect as the "law" since Christ fulfilled the law by being put to death on the torture stake. Act 15:28,29

So biblically you are fine.

It must be your compassion or something that feels that it isn't a necessary thing and you would rather not unless you need to. Yes, or something close like that

I too have had opportunities to take squirrels and I just won't until I really want to take them for food.


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## Hrawk

Rayshot said:


> If you want to consider the biblical stance.


Deuteronomy 7:1-2 springs to mind here . . . .

Lets not get into Leviticus . .


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## Btoon84

Deuteronomy 7:1-2....
So, if we can utterly destroy our opponents for god, then the animals... can... be destroyed too?


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## Hrawk

Exodus 20:13 then.


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## Btoon84

Ah, the good ole thou shalt not kill......









shadowslinger, i guess you can kill animals if you want. but it sounds like you have a bit of common sense in ya.... i have the stance of killing for the sake of killing is silly. If you kill it. You should eat it. And by all means if you are hungry and can't afford food.... KILL KILL KILL.....But while living my day to day....It's just easier to make a sandwich


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## lightgeoduck

I won't say it's wrong or not, but I will say this:
If it feels wrong to you, then don't do it. Especially if you are not in any need to. You are the only one that has to live with yourself.

I have hunted in the past, and have no issues with hunting as a sport, but my wife has a different view. Not that she thinks bad of others, she just doesn't want to be part of it. Since I am a part of her, I will respect that. I have opted out of the hunt for her, and that there is no need for me to do otherwise... My life goes on either way, but I can go to sleep knowing that I have control with my freedom.

I will say this, however, if you do choose to dispatch a squirrel, make sure you are ready with skill and proper equipment... Because one thing for sure, when it comes to morals, a clean kill is the only humane thing that is agreed upon.

LGD


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## treefork

Hunting is morally just if done fairly and humanly .Animals in a park get used to seeing people and become more vulnerable.They would present easy shots never possible in a more secluded natural environment .If you want to experience the true thrill and experience of the hunt,try a wooded spot where the animals are wild and cautious of predators.Otherwise its just a simple kill.


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## ruthiexxxx

As a Witch I make my own rules for my own conduct. I CHOOSE not to eat meat or dairy. Not because it is right or wrong but because it is not something I wish to do. I used to shoot animals once. Now I don't.

But my choice not to take life or cause suffering has the exceptions of self defence and survival. For these reasons I wish to make sure that I can be extremely competent at it should the need arise in this uncertain political climate. Til then I will keep my arrows for targets


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## Dayhiker

Questions of morality are by their very nature only opinions. Even Bible-based opinions, for one man's religion is another man's superstition.
So here is my opinion. It is immoral to kill anything just for fun. The only two reasons I'd kill an animal are for food or for pest control -- and in the case of snakes, pure irrational hatred, I mean self-defense.


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## Sherman

I've never gone hunting. My personal opinion is that hunting for trophies is, I won't say immoral, but just that I'm not a fan. On the other hand, I think anyone who eats meat should experience killing, dressing and preparing something (note that I have yet to take my own advice). I just think it would be a good experience for everyone to have if they are going to eat meat. As opposed to people who don't know that "beef" is a "cow" and think meat just magically appears at the grocery store on a styrofoam tray. I think it would help connect people back to, well, reality. Just like a trip to the landfill and the water treatment plant.

And Dayhiker, I just have to throw in that I love snakes. I don't get how anyone can not love snakes -- they are about the coolest animal going. That said, I wouldn't mind trying some rattlesnake sometime.


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## Charles

Nothing on this planet lives without causing the death of uncounted other organisms, animal and plant alike. Even vegetarians are responsible for the deaths of many, many animals, including many birds and mammals. Farming to produce food products for vegetarians disrupts habitat and food supplies for many birds and mammals, not to mention all the other organisms ... and this disruption leads to the deaths of many, many. And of course farming means that many animals will come to be regarded as pests to be eliminated. I do not take these facts to justify indiscriminate killing of anything.

I agree completely with the view that killing things for the sake of killing is repulsive. However, if I kill something and eat it, then there is at least one meal that does not have to come from other sources. By and large, when hunting is competently done, the animal has led a freer life than most farm animals these days, and has had a more humane death than it would get in a factory slaughterhouse, and a more humane death than it would have at the teeth and claws of some wild predator. I am always amazed at those who object to the taking of game for food, and yet happily go to the grocery store and buy meat taken from animals that were raised in appalling conditions, hauled off in great fear to some distant place, and then goaded into a slaughterhouse full of the sounds of frightened animals and the smell of death.

My shorthand view is that if you cannot look it in the eye and kill it, then you should not be eating it ... that includes sheep, goats,pigs, cattle, rabbits, chickens, etc. I am not saying that you should not eat anything you do not kill yourself, although there is a lot to be said for that point of view. What I am saying is that if you cannot bear the thought of killing a chicken, rabbit, or cow (for a couple of instances), then you should not be eating them. You are no more moral just because you close your mind's eye and distance yourself from the actual killing.

I also feel at ease killing things for pest control (but only real pests) ... but one must recognize that your "pest" is food for some other organism that you might admire and wish to preserve.

I also feel at ease killing things in defense of my life or the lives of beings under my protection.

Of course there is no black or white here ... it is always shades of grey.

Cheers ...... Charles


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## popedandy

I will hunt for food, but I will not hunt just for sport. That is based strictly on what I feel comfortable with, not on any moral basis.


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## Adirondack Kyle

I have a crazy skunk and squirrel problem in my county,
There were 55 people who were treated for rabies last summer in my county, most were in the city limits. 
I live in a small city just outside the Adirondacks park region. I have dissposed of two skunks from my backdoor. I used 36 cal lead, along with single tex flats. Anyways. Both these skunks were stumbling around my neighbors yard digging in the grass around 1 in the afternoon. I have permission from my local sheriffs office to use my ss on nuisance rodent's only.
To me this includes some of the squirrels that try to chew through my garbage box. Before i took any shots, i spent three months practicing. Didnt take a shot till i was sure i was good enough, and experimented with diff ammo until i found what i think is a good set up. By the way, these skunks were over 30 feet away at the time and they did spray. Just pissed my neighbor off
Anyways, i think pest control, to eat, its ok.
But i dont like shooting living things for fun either.


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## Scrambler84

If ya Kill it Griil It Qoute The Ted Nugent Theory Just saying no Waste Good Meat > Something To think about .


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## Cjw

I don't feel the need to hunt when I can go to the store and buy what I need to eat. Just like I don't feel the need to chop down trees for fire wood when I can turn on the central heating or the gas logs in the fire place.


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## Charles

I like the feeling of being more self-reliant. I like to know I have the skills if I ever need them. And there have been occasions in my life when hunting made a serious difference to my economic situation. I would rather hunt and eat a grouse than to eat a cage raised chicken that has been fed a host of hormones and antibiotics. I would rather eat deer or bear than pork that has been raised in confinement, and again fed hormones and antibiotics. Similarly, I have put in a vegetable garden most of my life. Over the years, the money I have saved from raising my own vegetables has been considerable. And the vegetables I raise are not laced with herbicides and pesticides.

I do have a wood stove, even though I live in the city. I burn all the fliers and trash paper that would otherwise go to land fill or have to be recycled. I collect wood from the boulevard when the city is taking down diseased or storm damaged trees. I collect wooden pallets from all over the city, and they cost me nothing but the effort to collect them and cut them up. Most of that wood I collect here in the city would be chipped and dumped into a landfill if I (and others like me) did not collect it. When I am out in the bush, I collect firewood, especially if I have not been successful hunting. During the winter months my wood stove saves me a tremendous amount on my heating bill. And that means there is a heck of a lot less oil and gas being burned.

I do not mean to be preachy here. Each of us has to live a life with which they feel comfortable.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## Allen Welsh

I like yer thinking Charles

Cheers
AL


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## Toddy

The two posts above from Charles are so near to my own beliefs and better written than I could have. So for me, I'm with Charles.


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## Berkshire bred

i get where your coming from, i have had no such problem myself as i was introduced to hunting at a very young age but i have spoken to people who feel the same way, i think that some people can do it and others can not, not due to skill but they are maybe the more sensitive of us. just my idea.


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## Dayhiker

Scrambler84 said:


> If ya Kill it Griil It Qoute The Ted Nugent Theory Just saying no Waste Good Meat > Something To think about .


Ted Nugent is an a$$hole. Pure and simple.


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## Carbon

I see nothing morally wrong with killing an animal for food. It is my opinion that if I eat a squirrel for a meal it is much better than eating the cow that was fattened up in a mud pen, slaughtered, and then packaged up for me to eat. Anything involving cruelty I am against. A quick, humane death after a good wild life seems to me the best way to go. When people are against hunting but eat meat it shows that they don't understand where their meat is coming from.










THAT isn't right to me.


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## Dayhiker

Amen, brother!


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## Cjw

It's not that I can't hunt I've hunted deer and elk . I just don't feel the need. The same wayi don't feel the need to ride a horse when I've got cars, or use kerosene lamps when I got electricity. I can buy organic food.


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## Cjw

I know where meat comes from but I've been on to many hunts where people take 400 yard shots and just wound the animal and it goes off to die slowly in pain. Or boar screaming in pain because of just being wounded an run off.


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## Cjw

In fact in 1982 I was shot in the back of the leg buy another hunter who saw the bushes move and that a deer was in the bushes.


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## Carbon

We obviously don't live in the same area. It is much cheaper for me to go out and hunt my own deer, kill it, and eat it throughout the year than it is to buy beef. Also there is a difference between most hunters and idiots who take stupid shots. Those types of people should not be hunting, obviously you are hanging with the wrong crowd. I guess here I've grown up hunting in thickets where visibility is at most 100 yards. So I am sighted in for that distance and am confident I can humanely kill anything at that distance with a heart shot.


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## Cjw

I'm not against hunting but in my years I've hunted in alaska ,Montana , Texas etc and for every thoughtful good hunter there's two or three that just bought an expensive new rifle and now they think their a hunter and take shots that a scout sniper would be lucky to make.


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## Carbon

I'm not arguing that, that is totally true. It is just too bad that those idiots are the ones that the general populous hears about I guess...


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## Cjw

The problem is a lot of these people don't practice with their weapon. The only time they shoot it is when they go hunt. I'm a life time member of an indoor pistol range and you see people shooting at targets that are so close that you could throw the gun at the target and hit it every time.and they still miss the target.


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## Carbon

Lol, I know people that buy a gun, don't sight it, and go hunting. Miss or maim, not good either way.


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## capnjoe

You must search your own heart to find what is right.

I personally would consider hunting any desensitized animal an ill advised thing to do.

Park critters are used to people. Hunting them in no way showcases your prowess as a hunter nor your sense of fair play. I hope you chose to scrub the mission.

Just remember, Homie don't play dat!


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## Carbon

Agreed about hunting in a park^
Not good, not good.


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## Bill Hays

Man is a hunter by nature and our naturally larger and smarter brains developed because of the high energy resource called meat.
Honestly I don't feel we should be all so apologetic for doing something that comes natural to us.

Sure it's possible to survive and even thrive on a diet of vegetables and greens... but even in doing that, you should know it's at the expense of animals, insects and other forms of vegetation.


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## capnjoe

Bill Hays said:


> Man is a hunter by nature and our naturally larger and smarter brains developed because of the high energy resource called meat.
> Honestly I don't feel we should be all so apologetic for doing something that comes natural to us.
> 
> Sure it's possible to survive and even thrive on a diet of vegetables and greens... but even in doing that, you should know it's at the expense of animals, insects and other forms of vegetation.


And with that, I will stroll over to my fridge for a piece of smoked venison jerky.


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## primitivehunter123

Hi all I'm new to the forums but I just had to weigh in on this topic.

This topic can't be fully discussed without also looking into Darwinism. Those who did not hunt and eat didn't have the strength to fight off predators or build shelter or even keep themselves from freezing with fat from meat and coverings from furs. Once providing food fell from our own responsibility to that of someone hundreds of miles away we all lost what it meant to truely feed and care for ourselves and that brought about a setting where everyone could flourish no matter their skill or morale stance on hunting but I'm getting a little off topic here my point is those people who don't hunt and think its wrong are the same who would complain about a bug hole in their lettuce leaf and then head off to a protest on not killing insects. My belief is that if one hunts it should only be done for food. Let's all remember what it means to thank an animal for their sacrifice so we may live.


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## hickymick

Pests are what most people dont want,, If you where not allowed to hunt at all ,Then would you be happy about it? To kill or not to kill how long before someone saying ,,, Oh dont kill that disease its a living thing ..In uk the grey squirrel is a pest .. Am I wrong for enjoying hunting even if I dont want to eat it.. If hunting was outlawed, then why would anyone need to shoot at targets? Its the freedom to choose weather its right or wrong for yourself? Morally to enjoy anything that someone else does not like will always cause trouble..So better just to please yourself in your pursuit of happiness ..


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## rapidray

Dayhiker said:


> 'Scrambler84' said:
> 
> 
> 
> If ya Kill it Griil It Qoute The Ted Nugent Theory Just saying no Waste Good Meat > Something To think about .
> 
> 
> 
> Ted Nugent is an a$$hole. Pure and simple.
Click to expand...

Is it his music? or what. if it is his music, I agree. but that is music. it is awful. Is it his hunting? I am with him, you kill it, you eat it. other wise it is wasted and done for no good reason. Is it his programs with working with kids on hunting? Is it his stand on politics, in general the second amendment? just wonering?

very interesting thread, life will always find a way to live.


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## August West

Why would you go to the grocery store if you can hunt? If you eat meat and think it is better to buy it than kill it yourself you are delusional.


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## Cjw

Mainly because I work 12 hours a day and it's easier to stop at the store pick up some steaks throw them on the gas grill. Than go out in the woods and hope I find something. I don't know how many times I've gone hunting or fishing and came up empty. Would get awful hungry.


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## August West

And that has nothing what so ever to do with what I said.


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## Cjw

Did you not say why would you go to the store if you can hunt ?


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## August West

Yes I did but you can't because you work 12 hours a day.


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## Cjw

The reason most people don't hunt that agree with hunting is the don't live where hunting is viable. I live in calif. most hunters I know are lucky to go out of state once a year to deer hunt. Not everyone lives near the woods or mountains or areas where they even allow hunting.


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## August West

Yep that is why I said *IF*


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## lightgeoduck

Well I know one reason why I go to the grocery store rather than hunt is that no matter how long I wait in the woods I never seem to beable to bag a cow.

LGD


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## capnjoe

I can bag a doughnut.


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## Henry the Hermit

lightgeoduck said:


> Well I know one reason why I go to the grocery store rather than hunt is that no matter how long I wait in the woods I never seem to beable to bag a cow.
> 
> LGD


Well, there ya go. Cows aren't found in the woods. You need to hunt them in open fiekls. You will probably need the farmer's/rancher's permission.


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## Potato

After reading this entire thread I feel compelled to go live on a Native American reservation...


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## jsbelljr83

I grew up on the Eastern Shore of MD and hunted for a good part of my youth but gave it up after I got out of the military. My area is over run with squirrels, I have set up a feeder for them and leave those alone who eat from that feeder, the only ones I sting with rubber pellets are those who raid my bird feeders. I don't use steel ball bearings because A) I do not want to kill them and B), I do not want a ricochet to hit one of my neighbors houses. Animals in a park would be easy targets, they are used to humans and very likely are used to getting hand outs from them.


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## August West

I am not a vegan or even a vegetarian but buying beef in the supermarket is a huge problem. Not only is the meat of questionable origin and quality but the polution caused by commercial animal farming is staggering. We eat way more meat than we need and IMO should try to cut back. I do my best to only eat organic meat and like to buy locally if possible of course the best is to eat what I hunt myself which I try very hard to do. Chris

http://www.nrdc.org/water/pollution/ffarms.asp


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## Viper010

Cjw said:


> Mainly because I work 12 hours a day and it's easier to stop at the store pick up some steaks throw them on the gas grill. Than go out in the woods and hope I find something. I don't know how many times I've gone hunting or fishing and came up empty. Would get awful hungry.


the truth, the whole truth, and nothing BUT the truth if you ask me...

being a modern man of convenience, i would take provisions from the store, even on a hunting trip. wouldnt we all?

or are there really such badboys here that go into the woods with nutn but a firestarter a huntingknife n axe and a tarp, n come back after a week with dinner for 3 weeks? if so, much respect! i would love to learn from you

cheers, remco

edit: oh and a slingshot ofcourse, cant forget the slngshot! sorry guys.. 


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## August West

Sure I do it every year but not with a slingshot, I hunt with a slingshot for fun if I am trying to fill my deep freeze I pick something else.

We live in a modern world and virtually no one can live totally off the land and never could, that is not the point I was trying to make. The point I was making is that meat raised, caught or killed by yourself is vastly superior to almost anything that can be bought and much, much better for the environment if done legally. The meat that is sold in a lot of places, McDonald's, is dang close to poison.


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## M.J

Henry in Panama said:


> lightgeoduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I know one reason why I go to the grocery store rather than hunt is that no matter how long I wait in the woods I never seem to beable to bag a cow.
> 
> LGD
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there ya go. Cows aren't found in the woods. You need to hunt them in open fiekls. You will probably need the farmer's/rancher's permission.
Click to expand...

What bands/ammo combo am I going to need to kill a cow with a slingshot?

:rofl:


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## ruthiexxxx

M_J said:


> Henry in Panama said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lightgeoduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I know one reason why I go to the grocery store rather than hunt is that no matter how long I wait in the woods I never seem to beable to bag a cow.
> 
> LGD
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there ya go. Cows aren't found in the woods. You need to hunt them in open fiekls. You will probably need the farmer's/rancher's permission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What bands/ammo combo am I going to need to kill a cow with a slingshot?
> :rofl:
Click to expand...

I'd go for looped black theratube on black tubeloop tabs...with a nice heavy broadhead arrow.


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## SlingDaddy

ruthiexxxx said:


> What bands/ammo combo am I going to need to kill a cow with a slingshot? :rofl:
> 
> I'd go for looped black theratube on black tubeloop tabs...with a nice heavy broadhead arrow.


Is that the voice of experience talking ruthie?!


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## ruthiexxxx

SlingDaddy said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> What bands/ammo combo am I going to need to kill a cow with a slingshot? :rofl:
> 
> I'd go for looped black theratube on black tubeloop tabs...with a nice heavy broadhead arrow.
> 
> 
> 
> Is that the voice of experience talking ruthie?!
Click to expand...

I'm afraid not....just going on how they demolish my backstops  Mind you, if the SHTF and I have to eat meat to survive I think I would avoid an animal that will have been pumped full of hormones and antibiotics. A nice deer now........


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## lightgeoduck

M_J said:


> Henry in Panama said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> lightgeoduck said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well I know one reason why I go to the grocery store rather than hunt is that no matter how long I wait in the woods I never seem to beable to bag a cow.
> 
> LGD
> 
> 
> 
> Well, there ya go. Cows aren't found in the woods. You need to hunt them in open fiekls. You will probably need the farmer's/rancher's permission.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> What bands/ammo combo am I going to need to kill a cow with a slingshot?
> :rofl:
Click to expand...

Theraband RED, and Gobstoppers, for the ones with horns, but I heard you can't be more than 10ft away.


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## BrokenPins

Lol, LGD. I'm gonna give that a try, I'll report back on my impending success.


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## Charles

I may have told this tale to some of you before ... if so, just ignore me! One of my early slingshot successes involved something very much like what is just being suggested. I was a young lad, living with my widowed grandmother on a remote farm. She had a bull in a back pasture. That thing was mean as a pit bull on illegal steroids ... just nasty. My grandmother had the thing completely buffaloed, and she could drive it where ever she wanted it to go, just by waving a switch in her hand. But it had a real hate on for me. Whenever I entered the pasture, the thing would bellow, paw the ground, lower its head, and do its best to kill me. I do not know how many times I sprinted for the fence and leaped over, usually into a patch of blackberry briars. I hated that bull, and he hated me. One day I had just done the sprint and landed in the briars, and the old bull was prancing back and forth, bellowing his triumph. I had my slingshot in my pocket, and in anger I pulled it out and loaded it with a big stone. As the bull turned, there was a perfect target hanging down between his back legs. I let fly and had a bullseye, so to speak. Well, the bellowing really began in earnest then, though a few decibels higher than before. And lord, what bucking that old boy was doing. I very shortly managed another hit in the same locale, and then I leaped the fence into the pasture. What a difference!!! From then on, when ever that bull saw me coming, he would bellow, wheel around, and run for the far side of the pasture. Needless to say, this is one of my fondest slingshot memories. I do not in general condone using a slingshot to inflict pain on animals, but in this instance, I felt fully justified.

Cheers ..... Charles


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## SHTF Slingshots

Charles said:


> I may have told this tale to some of you before ... if so, just ignore me! One of my early slingshot successes involved something very much like what is just being suggested. I was a young lad, living with my widowed grandmother on a remote farm. She had a bull in a back pasture. That thing was mean as a pit bull on illegal steroids ... just nasty. My grandmother had the thing completely buffaloed, and she could drive it where ever she wanted it to go, just by waving a switch in her hand. But it had a real hate on for me. Whenever I entered the pasture, the thing would bellow, paw the ground, lower its head, and do its best to kill me. I do not know how many times I sprinted for the fence and leaped over, usually into a patch of blackberry briars. I hated that bull, and he hated me. One day I had just done the sprint and landed in the briars, and the old bull was prancing back and forth, bellowing his triumph. I had my slingshot in my pocket, and in anger I pulled it out and loaded it with a big stone. As the bull turned, there was a perfect target hanging down between his back legs. I let fly and had a bullseye, so to speak. Well, the bellowing really began in earnest then, though a few decibels higher than before. And lord, what bucking that old boy was doing. I very shortly managed another hit in the same locale, and then I leaped the fence into the pasture. What a difference!!! From then on, when ever that bull saw me coming, he would bellow, wheel around, and run for the far side of the pasture. Needless to say, this is one of my fondest slingshot memories. I do not in general condone using a slingshot to inflict pain on animals, but in this instance, I felt fully justified.
> 
> Cheers ..... Charles


Charles, you devil you.

Well one thing about animals is, they are far to confident at times. A good solid cuff to the head teaches a dog not to misbehave, and apparently to teach a bull not to charge, you near enough neuter it with a slingshot.


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## greywolfoli

I want to hunt with my catty but I don't think I could actually take a kill shot I've tried but couldn't let the bands go, I know it's so much better than an animal fed up for food killed for food and packaged and I will continue to try it a fast and painful death and a wild life it so much better


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## Charles

Better still ... a fast and painless death ... I am sure that is what you meant. 

Cheers ..... Charles


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## tradspirit

Interesting subject! I am a hunter and make no apologies. I don't harvest animals, I kill them. And yes, out of respect for the animals that I kill, I make certain that I make use of as much of each animal as I can, from using the sinew to back selfbows, to making quivers out of the hides, and eating the meat. Every person needs to make his own decision, whether burning gas in a fireplace or cutting his own wood and burning logs. Although I fail to see the relevnce of that analogy when what I am speaking of results in my taking the life of one of God's creations, not simply making use of modern technology to achieve the end result. The morality of what someone does is a subjective issue. Do I buy meat from the market..of course. I simply prefer the taste of unpolluted meat. Laws must be obeyed and the hunter must set his own limitations based on his learned or inherent ability. Anything less is unacceptable. I am a predator, I enjoy the hunt more than the kill. Some of my best hunts never culminated in the death of my prey. Fair chase is what for me defines the correctness and morality of my actions. Shooting animals in enclosures is for me unacceptable, yet is something that many do. For them I suppose success is mesured by the kill, for me it is measured by the chase. Hunting is more than killing. For me it is matching wits with a wild animal and giving him every opportunity to escape and outsmart me. I do this sometimes at my own risk and by ground hunting primarily with a longbow and limiting my shots to 25 yards. I pride myself on my hunting skills and my accuracy with my weapon of choice, both of which require dedication and effort to master. To that extent hunting or the practice that is necessary with my longbow has become a sport in which I immerse myself. As many have stated above, there are those who will buy a modern weapon, whether a rifle or compound bow, and because of their design and the ease by which they can be used, become less interested in the essential practice and simply check their zero the week before hunting season and take to the field. It is therefore in my opinion not a matter of being politically or morally correct, but rather a matter of respecting our quarry and accepting responsibilty for our own actions and the resulting consequences. Passing up shots that may result in a wounded animal is our responsibility. The ethics of my behavior in the woods is evaluated by none other than myself. Oftentimes I am prouder of the shot that was never taken.


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## HarryBee

I don't hunt but don't criticise those who do ( leastways not those who do it competently). I think you're quite right not hunt in a park where the squirrel would present a much easier target and I don't think you would get much satisfaction from a kill. Cheers, Harry


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## AK Rick

I am a subsistence fisherman and hunter, we get over 90% of our diet from the woods and waters of our home. Killing for fun is sick! Plane and simple if that's your bag go see a doctor.

"I don't feel the need to hunt when I can go to the store and buy what I need to eat. Just like I don't feel the need to chop down trees for fire wood when I can turn on the central heating or the gas logs in the fire place."

You also have no concept of hunting or being aware of your place in the natural world! Eating without any regard for the LIFE that sustains you or your impact on the environment in witch you live is in my view completely self absorbed!!!!! I spend thousands of hours every year studding and watching wild animals, there behavior and changes in OUR habitat. I honestly respect the average Moose more than the average human and see a game animal harvest as a vital part of my life and spirituality. Harvests are hard unpleasant work but we are ALWAYS thankful for the life sustaining gift of meat and fur. My son's thank you prayers often last over an hour and every meal is a reminder of the life that was taken so we may live. All meat is shared, we do not hunt when there is no need and we NEVER forget the gift of life we received!

Have you ever thought about the living being raised solely for your consumption, pumped full of steroids and its flesh dyed to make it more appealing to your eye. A LIFE ended with no more thought than flipping a switch? Or do you just grab a package wrapped in plastic and march on your merry way?


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## AK Rick

Hunting in a park should give the original poster pause......just as butchering pets without any thought or respect does for me....

Hike wild country and line up your shot, harvesting wont be an issue.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Exceptionally well said well said Charles in both your comments I read here.

One would suggest we could all learn all learn from elders, and quite clearly wiser.

Cheers Allan


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## New dog old tricks

thought i might throw my 2 cents in..... i follow no religion, but i have a code of ethics i live by. and when it comes to killing, i think there are only three reasons to do so. 1 in self defense. 2 to eat. and three(in the case of animals) it is simply a pest. here in Australia we have plenty of introduced animals that harm the development of our ecosystem, eg cain toads minor birds pigs rabbits ect. just my thoughts.


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## ceedub

I have no moral issues about killing animals....none. trophy deer and elk have a pile of meat on them too. My code is "if it flies it dies, if its Brown its down, ill pick my teeth with the bones after I suck out the marrow.


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## Forzajuve

I see no moral issue with killing squirts in the park provided you want the meat. Though dont call it hunting its harvesting. I think that anyone that causes death or suffering to park animals for entertainment should really rethink it


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## KITROBASKIN

This most recent National Geographic iPad version offers a short video clip of a pride of lions pulling a warthog out of a hole. It is not a pretty sight... and yet it is one aspect of Life. Compare that with a successful human directed hit on a rabbit. Seems like much less suffering. To those who believe animals ( including the much maligned yet innocent snakes ) have a God given, individual identity and dare I say, Soul, the effective human kill is more merciful. This is not to say that all animal on animal killing is always drawn out agony (many snakes do a very efficient job of taking prey). And we all know about those times when the human hunt gets very ugly. But if the intent is a quick kill for food, or protection, or disease prevention (pests) then isn't that all we can hope for?

For many of us, it is saddening to see a beautiful creature die and so many of us avoid seeing that if we can. We pay others. As far as the squirrel in the park question, they need some kind of control, will it be forage depletion, disease, predation? Don't participate unless you eat them. The squirrels I ate were dark meat and pretty good. If you haven't hunted for your own sustenance then you should at least try it so you have some understanding. If you don't like it, pay someone else. But the honest, conscientious hunter is top notch in my book.


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## yeeharr

I hunt because I enjoy it. 
I enjoy the hunt more than the kill, that's why my shotguns and rifles sit collecting dust in the cabinet and it's only my dogs or catty that I employ now. I get more pleasure from the skill that's required with a catty.

Everything that can be eaten, is. Either by myself or my animals. The pest species that can't be eaten are disposed of.

Do I hunt for fun? Of course I do. I wouldn't get up hours before first light in the middle of winter, in sub zero temperatures, to stalk some bunnies if it wasn't fun. I kill pest species and I harvest meat but I'm not doing it as a great service to mankind or because I have limited funds. I do it because I enjoy it. For this I make no apology.

If people want to be the most humane and efficient hunters that they can be then they should leave the catapult at home and take the shotgun, or get out the gas or poison. But be honest about your motives. Those of you who claim to hunt and yet criticise someone for gaining pleasure from it are either saints on earth or liars.


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## Forzajuve

yeeharr I thinking here understand the difference between enjoying the hunt and enjoying watching something die. I find hunters a lot of hunters to be more self righteous the even the PETA people. I have no shame in saying people that hunt to watch something die or worse be injured are sick. 
Anyone that wants food on the table or control pest on their property is fine in my book. 
No one needs to pick one method over anothet If you can not do it with your ss then practice more before hunting. Same with the gun.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

It is interesting to read the different opinions, most of which I personally agree with, no matter whether for, or against.

Having said that however, I do hunt for food occasionally, and I do kill for pest control.

Although one would hardly call that hunting; but never kill just for killings sake, when not on military operations.
But that is whole other minefield of moral debate, which is best not even discussed on this forum.

I firmly believe, simply the best stance to take is to respect others opinions, and points of view, as they have a right to have them; and not to attempt to change anyones mind or opinion; and enjoy the free exchange of ideas and values, for what it is.

Cheers Allan


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## August West

If it is legal, fire those squirrels up park or not.


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## Blackbriar

I believe that to kill for food is more than acceptable, as is to kill to eliminate pests , but killing for killing's sake is utterly wrong!!

Shadow -if you are taking animals for food (for yourself or maybe even to feed the dog),then go ahead - just be sure that your quarry dies quickly and humanely. If your are shooting rats or squirrels for pest control, the same applies - even vermin don't deserve to suffer!


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## Flycatcher

I am vegan. I dont eat meat at all. Because factory farming is the worst and the meat that comes out of that kind of industry tastes like crap. and many other reasons (but lets not get into that)

However... I do eat hunted meats (only a few times a year) I have no objection to hunting or killing animals for yourself to eat. Hope this helps. You can pm me if you wanna chat a little about it.


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## ceedub

To me this has little to do with the ole ideal that you only kill what you willing to eat and always eat what you kill and more to do with having the personal fortitude to take the life out of something without regret or remorse. Many would call my actions cruel and offensive, I often go out hunting with the only intent of taking the life out of something that can not defend itself against my intended onslaught. I wont lie, the kill is every bit as good as the hunt for me. I am not a serial killer, I do not torture animals for fun (I do take their life for fun), I do not have anger issues or any other of the multitude of stereotypes that may come along with my opinions. If you can you will, if you enjoy it you will continue. If you cant you wont and you'll continue to shoot a target and maybe continue to be satisfied with hitting the O on a coke can. I done know how else to say it and I will no longer follow this thread. Arguing moralls online is like running the special Olympics, even if you win your still retarded.


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## SHTF Slingshots

That is a very respectable point of view, 
"sometimes it's just fun to pick those weaker than you"
Admittedly, the few animals I've shot dead I ate, but I wasn't killing to eat, I was killing to kill, there is a rush with each shot, a greater one with eat hit, it'll sound strange, but I kinda feel like the highlander, absorbing the souls of my quarry for strength, after each kill I feel more mighty, but that's most likely the adrenaline pumping through my veins, never killed with my SS, only ever did with an Air-rifle.


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## Lacumo

I know the original question in this thread was about the ethics/morality of shooting squirrels in a part, but... All moral, ethical, biblical scholarship and dietary preference considerations aside...

I think you're facing some significant practical considerations here, such as: Is hunting legal or illegal in whatever jurisdiction this park is in? Is hunting legal or illegal in the park itself? If the park is in a city, what are the local laws/ordinances governing the use of weapons in the city? Do you need a hunting license to do this in compliance with fish+game laws? Do you need to do this during squirrel season to be in compliance with fish+game laws? Are PETAzoids, mommies and kiddies going to start screaming and dialing 911 on their cellphones when you whip out your slingshot and have at it?

Overall, I think hunting squirrels with a slingshot in a park is opening the door to some unpleasant and potentially costly involvements with the local gendarmes, Political Correctness Police, the so-called "criminal justice system" and whoever else can find a way to get in on the act. You might well (depending on how busy a news day it is) be opening the door to a regular sh*tstorm of bad PR and grief in the local media, too -- for both you and slingshot shooters in general.

I suspect if you're near a park you're probably near a railroad line, too. Do some hiking along the tracks. I think you'll find a whole universe of surprisingly isolated, private spots with enough cover to support large populations of little critters (BTW--rabbits are tastier than tree rats), and best of all---no PETAzoids, mommies, kiddies, donut-stuffed cops who don't have anything better to do than busting your chops, etc,etc,etc... All you have to do is get away from the tracks as soon as you hear or see a train coming.

I don't mean to rain on your parade, but I think there's a lot more to be said for the privacy of the woods along a railroad line than there is for a public park when it comes to slingshot small game hunting.


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## squirrel squasher

Btoon84 said:


> Ah, the good ole thou shalt not kill......
> 
> shadowslinger, i guess you can kill animals if you want. but it sounds like you have a bit of common sense in ya.... i have the stance of killing for the sake of killing is silly. If you kill it. You should eat it. And by all means if you are hungry and can't afford food.... KILL KILL KILL.....But while living my day to day....It's just easier to make a sandwich


The more original commandment is thou shall not murder
Murder and kill can be different.
Murder is like crime.
Killing is overused when murder should be used. 
He bible also says if you do not have a sword sell your cloak and buy one. 
This is for protection, and killing to protect yourself is just. 
So killing for food is just, because biblical people raised animals and ate them. So this is out of context.
This is one reason why I hunt. Hunting can also be an enjoyable challenge. 
But kill cleanly and eat the meat.


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## idleidolidyll

dammit! I wasn't expecting there to be any moral codes!

I aim to kill. Bunnies, Possums, Magpies and even Cats if they piss me off.

New Zealand only had one native mammal before humans arrived 1000 or so years back (westerners only arrived in the late 1700's), a bat, so all other mammals are introduced. Some are farm animals (no sheep jokes please), some are pets (escaped ferrets and stoats are among the worst introduced species here). Others were introduced for game, fur or to control other critters.

As far as most of us are concerned, damn near every small mammal is a pest destroying our native forests and ecosystem and should be wiped out. That goes double for Aussies (possums) and Pommies (rabbits) which are the two worst curses NZ has ever had (deer follow closely as a major pest).

I have no qualms shooting these critters and won't shed a tear if they are merely wounded. I'm only going to hold back if I don't have much ammo or consider the shot a complete waste of expensive lead.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Ummm sure I learned somewhere in grammar, text out of context is a pretext, which is nothing, or something along those lines.

Also data can prove, or disprove, anything the questioners bias their questions, and demographics, to get the answers they want, regardless of the the numbers of the "impartial" test base. Therefore mean squat.

There are so few genuinely unbiased, non politically, or business based, so called research done; that nearly all the rest should be treated with total contempt, in my opinion.

The only moral imperative, is if you and your family is hungry, go forth forrige, hunt; and eat. Let the law try to say no no no, you should of starved.

Cheers Allan


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