# Axiom occularis aiming



## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Heya guys. 
I was wondering, is it possible to use a fork tip reference when shooting the occularis tips ott? 
In my mind it seems impossible, anyone that shoots that way please chime in


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## 3danman (Mar 29, 2012)

Some don't like ocularis tips because of this issue, me included. OTT flatlands shooting gangsta with Ocularis tips makes for a messy sight picture for me, especially since I twist the pouch. I think ocularis is more suited to TTF.

Luck Over Skill had somebody make him an ocularis frame with squared off fork tips for the same reason, so you might explore a custom or homemade option. Or if you don't mind giving it a try yourself, some people have no trouble with this. A floating anchor might remedy it too.


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## The Norseman (Mar 5, 2018)

You could try putting a mark where your reference point is, or cutting a notch there.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Well, when it gets here I will discover myself I guess. I do think that ott will be more viable by sighting along the bands, I will be loosing the 10cm fork width though.
We will see. Worst case scenario, it will be a ttf only option


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Put a clear ball in the ocularis plug and look through it. Instant sight :thumbsup:


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

I use the notches as a 'guide'


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## stevekt (Jul 3, 2012)

mattwalt said:


> I use the notches as a 'guide'


Same here. I don't shoot it often but when I do it is set up OTT. Even with the round fork tips you can still get decent band alignment. I prefer OTT with flat fork tips but the AO will work if you spend some time with it. I've even cut a few cards with an AO when I was still feeling it out.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Oh, I am sure I will be able to "hit" cards (I stopped trying to cut one for the time being, I do hit them though), I am just not sure if I will be able to get a consistent low anchor point with it. 
Nathan had a very low anchor point, and honestly, I don't know how he manages not to shoot too high.
Just to be clear guys, I bought it for two reasons. First reason is that I had to get something from SS, as I promised I would when I got the scout clone. And second reason is that I just wanted to support SS.
I've got stuff from Pocket Predator, Wasp, Proshot. I couldn't let SS out ☺
Oh, will a 10mm bb work in the plugs?


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Yes, 10 mm balls should work.
Nathan doesn't fork reference, that's why he can anchor low, hold at a weird cant, and have his bands at different angles and still hit everything.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

M.J said:


> Yes, 10 mm balls should work.
> Nathan doesn't fork reference, that's why he can anchor low, hold at a weird cant, and have his bands at different angles and still hit everything.


Yeah, that's what I can't understand, the way he is aiming. 
My wild guess is that he is sighting the target somehow between the forks, but that doesn't really explain the low anchor point, which I am testing now.
His style is the only one I can't emulate, because I really can't understand it ????


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## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

He says he doesn't see the fork at all when he shoots. He's definitely not looking between the forks.


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## The Norseman (Mar 5, 2018)

skropi said:


> M.J said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, 10 mm balls should work.
> ...


Don't aim! It takes waaay longer to get accurate, but you can get a shot off in an instant, and won't need reference points.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

The Norseman said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > M.J said:
> ...


Well, I've tried that, when I shoot in an instant I still aim, but instantly, seriously now


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

skropi said:


> Heya guys.
> I was wondering, is it possible to use a fork tip reference when shooting the occularis tips ott?
> In my mind it seems impossible, anyone that shoots that way please chime in


Focus on the target while being aware through your peripheral vision of the band alignment and the spot where the top edge of the top band touches the top fork . That is your reference . Don't think about the roundness of the fork .


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

treefork said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > Heya guys.
> ...


Yep, that's my normal aiming method, but I am trying to find a way to get a higher reference point so as to lower my anchor point. 
Probably I will revert to my usual way anyway, who knows.
One thing I will try though, is eliminating all reference points, as MJ said. This is the one thing I've never tried. I do expect a lot of flyers if I do that, but it'll be fun ????


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

The axiom occularis arrived. I decided to shoot like Nathan, because why not?
Guys, I don't get it. I anchor low at the corner of my mouth, I shoot way high. Then I decide to go Nathan all the way. I disregard the frame, only using the edge of the top band as a guide for windage. The frame held so low that no reference can be made. Yep, I cant miss windage easily, and I had a few hits on a 4cm spinner. 
It really makes no sense though. This way of shooting is epitome of inaccuracy, yet, somehow, the shots are too good for the first time shooting like that.
I am not sure I want to practice this thing, it's against everything I've been practicing till now, yet it's so exciting I can hardly describe it. Just focus on the target and nothing else, the frame hardly visible, let go, hit. This adrenaline is too much.
Oh, and the occularis system really needs some extra rubber to work, I don't like this fact much.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Guys please help. A few more shots, and I even abandoned that line as a guide. I just focus on the target, nothing else. 
Can you explain why the shots go straight? I really don't get it. Windage is a joke, comparatively speaking, and I DONT use even the bands to aim. WHY? 
Of course I emulated even the way Nathan had the bands on. I just can't emulate the 45° angle he is holding the frame, I am holding it more like 30°. 
Anyway, is this instinctive or aiming? I was laughing at instinctive shooting till today, but now I am not so sure. I am confused to say the least. 
What I know for sure is that it is so exciting I can't even describe it. I should stop shooting this way though, or else it will be my main way of shooting, and I am not sure if it will be good in the long run. Maybe shoot this way for a few weeks only?
I shouldn't have bought this frame....


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Let me get this straight. I shoot a new frame, new elastic (SS black), the huge, unwieldy pouch it came with the frame, using a new technique that doesn't allow the use of a reference point, and I am more accurate than before. Yeah, I know, 20-30 shots are not a good indication, still it makes no sense. I am more than excited as you can see. I hit my spinners with confidence while I can't even describe how the heck I do it.
Just tell me what's happening. If I didn't know any better, I would think I am dreaming...


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## SimpleShot (Aug 30, 2012)

Are you having fun? Are you enjoying the experience?

Sounds like you are waaaay overthinking this and some strongly held preconceived notions are creating cognitive dissonance.

Who would imagine that an unwieldy pouch, rounded fork tips and new elastic could be accurate without effort?

Don't forget to enjoy yourself and have fun


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

SimpleShot said:


> Are you having fun? Are you enjoying the experience?
> 
> Sounds like you are waaaay overthinking this and some strongly held preconceived notions are creating cognitive dissonance.
> 
> ...


It's the most enjoyable shooting I ever had till now, that's for sure. Pure adrenaline flowing with each shot. 
It's just so different than what I'm used to, and you know about the power of habit  
Oh, this pouch is sooooooo comfortable!


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## The Norseman (Mar 5, 2018)

Skropi has joined us instinctive shooters! Hooray!!!!!


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Well, who would have thought that the target is a good reference point itself? ????
I am really curious where all this will lead. I even shot a combination of aiming/not aiming and it did go well. It's more natural to shoot. I believe my shooting is about to change a lot.


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## 3danman (Mar 29, 2012)

skropi said:


> Well, who would have thought that the target is a good reference point itself?
> I am really curious where all this will lead. I even shot a combination of aiming/not aiming and it did go well. It's more natural to shoot. I believe my shooting is about to change a lot.


Aren't you always thinking that?


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

I think I know what's happening. When I shoot without any reference points, I believe I still aim, just unconsciously. 
I mean, I focus solely on the target, and I can't conciously focus on the frame as it is way lower than the target. 
What I think it's happening is that the brain coordinates the body to aim by itself. 
This way I have much less work to do. I just care about the target, and let the aiming to my brain.
One thing that made me conclude that is that I can't shoot without flipping when instinctive shooting. The reason is probably that I am so focused on the target, that every other move and action is not controlled conciously.
I can be wrong on all accounts, but the fun I am getting is immense, so I will be shooting this way for a bit and see what happens.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

3danman said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > Well, who would have thought that the target is a good reference point itself?
> ...


Hahaha, you are right! And the thing is that it is always changing! I mean, I was afraid to experiment before, but not anymore. Copying is good when you start out, but I do need to let myself develop my own unique style. I have the basics down, so it's the only logical conclusion


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

If you've ever taken a piece of rubber, like a rubberband cut in half for example, held it with your thumb and index index finger... stretch it out with your other hand and snap a bug on a wall, or something similar..

You basically move the holding holding hand towards the target and release with a snap when it's stretched out... not really aiming so much as moving your hand to the target...

That is also one technique for shooting a slingshot... in fact in the old days a lot of slingshots had the middle thumb support similar to the classic Milbros, and that allowed for an even easier flip towards the target...

People who have practiced that technique can indeed get a feel for shooting that seems almost instinctual... but it is still difficult for most without the forks being visible in at least their peripheral vision.


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## goodflite (Dec 5, 2015)

I have a love/hate relationship with the Ocularis. I guess I'm happy to own one, but also glad I'll only ever own just one. Sometimes it surprises me and I really hit well with it. It just seems inconsistent and perhaps that's because it's the hardest one to get accustomed to when switching from one frame to another. From instinctive to aiming, there are several elements involved in my shooting method but I guess fork tip referencing within the sight picture really is a thing and the rounded tips don't always do it for me.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> If you've ever taken a piece of rubber, like a rubberband cut in half for example, held it with your thumb and index index finger... stretch it out with your other hand and snap a bug on a wall, or something similar..
> You basically move the holding holding hand towards the target and release with a snap when it's stretched out... not really aiming so much as moving your hand to the target...
> 
> That is also one technique for shooting a slingshot... in fact in the old days a lot of slingshots had the middle thumb support similar to the classic Milbros, and that allowed for an even easier flip towards the target...
> ...


I do have the forks in my peripheral vision , they are just so low that any direct, conscious reference is impossible.
What I don't get is how come all the styles I've tried do work. How am I supposed to choose one?
Most probably I'll choose none, and just do a combination of everything I've learned so far.
The only real and definite conclusion I've made is that the release and correct pouch hold is everything.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

goodflite said:


> I have a love/hate relationship with the Ocularis. I guess I'm happy to own one, but also glad I'll only ever own just one. Sometimes it surprises me and I really hit well with it. It just seems inconsistent and perhaps that's because it's the hardest one to get accustomed to when switching from one frame to another. From instinctive to aiming, there are several elements involved in my shooting method but I guess fork tip referencing within the sight picture really is a thing and the rounded tips don't always do it for me.


I've shot the Scorpion, aiming, extremely well, the axiom, instinctive, also, ott very well too. When I say very well is of course compared to me.
I don't have a problem switching frames and styles, but I do need to decide on a main one, so as to practice it exclusively.


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## Fiveshooter (Nov 15, 2016)

skropi said:


> Heya guys.
> I was wondering, is it possible to use a fork tip reference when shooting the occularis tips ott?
> In my mind it seems impossible, anyone that shoots that way please chime in


I shoot one almost daily in OTT mode and I have no issues using the fork tip as a reference when sighting. Depending the bands used I may have to aim a bit low to hit my spinner but only a bit. With heavier bands I may aim the height of the spinner low. With lighter bands I can put the top band edge at the bottom of the spinner and it's right on for me. A little experimentation and you won't have any issues. I use the same anchor point for any width fork and take a few shots to see where I need to aim to hit. It can take two or more shots when changing from wide forks to much narrower but it's generally pretty easy to get dialed in. Congratulations on the purchase. The Axiom Ocularis is one of my all time favorites and the molded ones are the best production model yet. I do wish they had made the handle fuller instead of leaving room for a parachord wrap. That's about the only change I see I would like besides having it available molded in toxic green 

What color did you pick?

I have several and most are black. I have one in clear, one in hot pink, one in orange and 2 or three in the "Eggplant" color with all the others being plain black. I'm impatiently waiting for molded neon or toxic green to buy a few of those. I have no idea when but I do believe that color will be a standard molded color at some point in the future. I hope so as I know it would be very popular.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

I picked the red of course, as we all know, red shoots faster.
My main issue is that from the time I changed to constrictor knot, I shoot high. It's not an issue per se, I can just adjust my anchor point or aim lower, but still, I would like to have my thumb fingernail beneath the cheekbone, and not on it, as I shoot better that way for so e reason. 
Oh, and I am shooting at around 200-210fps, it's not so fast.
I did shoot a combination of styles today. It was........how to put it.... instinctive aiming? Neither aiming not instinctive, a combination of both, and it worked fine. It's very comfortable to shoot that way, and very very accurate on windage.
Didn't have time to shoot much though, the day becomes shorter, and I have to get some led spotlights next month so as to extend my shooting time. 100 shots don't cut it, as I am switching styles and I need a high shot count to really enjoy all of them.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

skropi said:


> Heya guys.
> I was wondering, is it possible to use a fork tip reference when shooting the occularis tips ott?
> In my mind it seems impossible, anyone that shoots that way please chime in


Yes it is possible. However, due to the tips being rounded, you can't use a calibrated type of aiming with the fork tips. With flat tips you can use the top corner, bottom corner, and divisions between for aiming references for various distances. For the ocularis tips you use one point on the tip and then use holdover or holdunder for changes in distance.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Northerner said:


> skropi said:
> 
> 
> > Heya guys.
> ...


I found out how to aim with it. I keep the target well above the fork, focus only on the target, and shoot. I do line up the band beneath the target, but only unconsciously, my focus solely goes to the target, to the point that everything else is a messy blur.
The other way is with a really high anchor point and the band touching the target, but I don't enjoy that way, as I need the lower anchor, and......having the target float alone is just ...FUN!


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Also.... the Ocularis has high fork tips for OTT which may throw off your shooting if you typically shoot low tips. The leverage is different and things can get challenging if you change tip lengths and you are a flipper. Of course, some guys may deal well with the changes and others may not.


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## skropi (Mar 22, 2018)

Northerner said:


> Also.... the Ocularis has high fork tips for OTT which may throw off your shooting if you typically shoot low tips. The leverage is different and things can get challenging if you change tip lengths and you are a flipper. Of course, some guys may deal well with the changes and others may not.


I can hold it close enough to the forks, so I don't mind that. When I aim I don't flip much, if at all, when instinctive, I find it impossible not to flip 
It's a very comfortable frame, but it's a frame that screams to be the only one.
I am expecting the Proshot PSTS to arrive, a frame that will be shot solely with an aiming style. 
That style that gets better results on windage will win.
In case I go instinctive, the axiom will be the only frame that I will own. If I go aiming, then I'll keep a variety of frames. I don't think this decision will be made anytime soon though.


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