# Are You Shooting Too Much Rubber?



## Henry the Hermit

As always with slingshots, the answer to that question is a firm, "It Depends". From what I've seen on the Forums in the last couple of years, if you're shooting steel, the chances are you are over-powered. A fairly common combination is double-layer tapered Theraband Gold and 3/8 inch steel.

I've done a lot of testing with Chinese tubes, and a fair amount with TheraBand tubes and Alliance Sterling #107 rubber bands, but very little with Theraband flats. The only Theraband I have is a bag of scraps that Dan (ZDP-189) very generously sent me almost two years ago. It is leftover from cutting his Speed Bands and consists of tapered strips about 9 inches long. There are two sets of tapers, one is 3/4 x 3/8 and the other is 1/2 x 1/4. I've been using them for small slingshots and shooting BBs and .25 cal steel in them, They are great for that purpose, but as I learned today have the potential for a whole lot more. The bandset I have on my smallest shooters is the 1/2 x 1/4 with a very small and thin pouch, and when a set tears at the pouch, I just cut them and retie. Today when the bands on my 3/4 scale Cholita broke at the pouch, I decided to try cutting them to optimum power length for my draw. Here are the dimensions. 1/2 inch (12.27 mm) at the frame and 3/8 inch (9.5 mm) at the pouch with a draw length (frame to pouch) of 6 inches (15.24 mm). When I tested this set with .25 cal (6.35 mm), I was quite pleased to see 303 fps, but dismayed at the nasty handslap. I switched to .30 cal (7.5 mm) lead and got mild handslap and 235 fps. When I tried 3/8 (9.5 mm) steel, the handslap was gone and velocity was 225 fps. Because 3/8 steel is a very popular size, I did some comparison. With a full-size Cholita banded with double-layer 3/4 x 3/8 x 8 TBG I got 265 fps, but the hand slap was back. When I switched to .44 cal (11 mm) lead, the handslap disappeared and velocity was 225 fps. Now, let's look at some power figures. The single TBG set produced 6.16 lb/ft (8.36 joules) and no handslap with 3/8 steel. The double-layer TBG set produced 8.55 lb/ft (11.59 joules) and plenty of handslap with 3/8 steel. Now look at the numbers when we load the double-layer bands with .44 lead. 13.33 lb/ft (18.07 joules), a 56% increase in power over 3/8 steel. With 3/8 steel, the double-layer bands offered only a 39% increase over the single, at the expense of handslap and increased noise.

My conclusions are that most slingshooters can probably benefit from better matching of rubber to ammo. I hope some of you will do your own tests and post your results.


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## Dayhiker

Henry I just go by instinct and steel-can impact. I learned a long time ago that double theraband gold is and 3/8 steel is a ridiculous mis-match. Even for accuracy. It's nutz. I think a lot of folks would be surprised to see how much destructive power they can get with, say, a taper of 1-inch to 11/16-inch TBG and 7/16- inch steel balls. I really don't see the need for more power that that, especially if you substitute 45 cal lead for the steel. (talkin' single-layer of course).

. . . then again there are those who want to shoot at small game from 25 yards and more. But I think that's nutz too!

Like you say, though: "It all depends".


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## pop shot

I like to be able to see the ammo traveling. Shooting fast means you only miss faster... About 200-230 fps is good for me with 7/16 steel. That&#39;ll poke a nice hole in a steel can.


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## Sean

Always good to read what you guys are doing with ammo and bands. I'm pretty much set as of late, with a straight
cut, 3/4 inch thera-gold, and some homemade leather pouches. I'm shooting rocks though, I'll have to dig out the 
chrono and see how they fair. I know, I won't get any kind of consistent findings, but it sure is fun!
Hand slap hasn't been bad either.


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## DaveSteve

Very good point Henry.


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## Hrawk

A while back now I started cutting my TBG at 20x15x180mm, using singles to shoot 9.5mm steel and have not looked back. Super light draw, bands last for ages and you can shoot all day with zero strain or fatigue. On top of this it still provides good performance with this lighter ammo.


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## M.J

I like a 1" to 3/4" taper of TBG for 7/16" and 1/2" steel. Seems about right.


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## lightgeoduck

It has been little while since I shot some of my bands,, been on a tube kick since my recent slinshots have them.. the one band that I did recently use was with the slingshot that MJ gave me, and I used what was already on it.

Later I will get my dimensions again, but generally I set it up where I know that I could draw it more than I do. I adjust by feel and make changes at the fork end. My main goal is long band/tube life, so my set up is where it gets the ammo to the target straight, with power not being a concern.

I learned this just a little bit into shooting slingshots.. when all I am doing is target shooting, and improving on my accuracy, I don't need much. I also figured out (for me) that its better (for band life) to cut where I am not using full latex energy to acheive this, than cut where I am utilizing full latex energy to reach the same goal.

I can't tell you the % stretch I am applying.
I haven't any formula to use to provide a match with what I do for my draw, and another's draw. I am a shoot from the hip kind of guy









I can say that I cut straights and cut them a little long (based off of trials of dimensions members shared here),, and figure it out the fork.. excess is great because when I do get a band snap I can fix and use the same strips of latex again.

I do appreciate posts like these, because this information is very useful, and provides an excellent picture on the cause and effect of this sport.

Thanks

LGD


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## Northerner

Hi Henry,

How long are you drawing those bands?

Cheers,
Northerner


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## Henry the Hermit

Northerner said:


> Hi Henry,
> 
> How long are you drawing those bands?
> 
> Cheers,
> Northerner


About 36 inches.


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## Jakerock

lightgeoduck said:


> I learned this just a little bit into shooting slingshots.. *when all I am doing is target shooting*, and improving on my accuracy, I don't need much. I also figured out (for me) that its better (for band life) to cut where I am not using full latex energy to acheive this, than cut where I am utilizing full latex energy to reach the same goal.


Do you hunt over there LGD?


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## BCLuxor

Hmmm interesting topic, I have been using some of the large 107 rubber bands split down the middle and trimmed to my 32" draw (think its 8.5"). I have been enjoying there simplicity and durability but am getting wicked hand slap using 8mm steel how could I reduce this without switching ammo as I have an abundance of 8mm steel at the moment, would increasing the cut say to 9" work?


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## Henry the Hermit

luxor5 said:


> Hmmm interesting topic, I have been using some of the large 107 rubber bands split down the middle and trimmed to my 32" draw (think its 8.5"). I have been enjoying there simplicity and durability but am getting wicked hand slap using 8mm steel how could I reduce this without switching ammo as I have an abundance of 8mm steel at the moment, would increasing the cut say to 9" work?


Probably not. 107s are heavy and have to be loaded quite a bit to stop handslap. Use the lightest pouch possible. You could also try a frame with higher forks, or a side-tie frame. Medium to low forks and OTT almost guarantee handslap with 107s and light ammo.

I get little to no handslap when I tie 107s onto a bent-rod. Here's an example.


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## BCLuxor

Henry in Panama said:


> Hmmm interesting topic, I have been using some of the large 107 rubber bands split down the middle and trimmed to my 32" draw (think its 8.5"). I have been enjoying there simplicity and durability but am getting wicked hand slap using 8mm steel how could I reduce this without switching ammo as I have an abundance of 8mm steel at the moment, would increasing the cut say to 9" work?


Probably not. 107s are heavy and have to be loaded quite a bit to stop handslap. Use the lightest pouch possible. You could also try a frame with higher forks, or a side-tie frame. Medium to low forks and OTT almost guarantee handslap with 107s and light ammo.

I get little to no handslap when I tie 107s onto a bent-rod. Here's an example.

View attachment 25945

[/quote] Good advice I feared the ammo was the main problem, I will try some lightweight pouches the one currently attached is kind of bulky for its duty thanks Henry.


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## Henry the Hermit

I see lots of members are still over-powering their slingshots, so I thought I'd bring this back to the top.


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## gbeauvin

How heavily do you find that the 107s need to be loaded to be happy? I'm just getting started, and these were on my list of "I should try this"... (along with tiny latex tubes, theraband silver and gold flats, tex-shooter bandsets, and the list goes on).

thanks,

GB


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## Samurai Samoht

True. I helped a friend see the light when it came to how much rubber he was using just for target shooting. He was set up with some 8.5" X 1" double layer TBG while shooting with 3/8 steel at around 40 feet. I set him up with single 8.5" X 3/4 straight cut bands and the ball bearing still reaches its target without lobbing, but with much less effort. Not having to draw as much weight positively impacts the stability of ones shot and therefore can improve accuracy.

Cheers!

Tom


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## Henry the Hermit

gbeauvin said:


> How heavily do you find that the 107s need to be loaded to be happy? I'm just getting started, and these were on my list of "I should try this"... (along with tiny latex tubes, theraband silver and gold flats, tex-shooter bandsets, and the list goes on).
> 
> thanks,
> 
> GB


I prefer .44 lead (125 grains) with 107s on my La Cholita frame. You might get by with lighter ammo on a larger frame.


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## gbeauvin

Henry in Panama said:


> I prefer .44 lead (125 grains) with 107s on my La Cholita frame. You might get by with lighter ammo on a larger frame.


Thanks, Henry. It just so happens I have some .454 lead balls laying around for my cap-and-ball revolver that might work a treat. When I get the slingshot built, that is lol.

-GB


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## SmilingFury

Great post, thanks for bringing it back up. I am one of the challenged when it comes to the search function of this forum. For some reason I can't get it to even find things I wrote , much less find the postings of others, haha. I enjoyed this one though. Thanks Henry.

SF


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## Adirondack Kyle

Def a much needed refresher for the newer members,


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## RHTWIST

You answered my question on handslap when I first started in a month or so back. I am finding your statements so true.

Most of the ammo I shoot, I am over powering. I shoot quite a bit of light ammo 20-25 grains and my lightest bands

whether flat or 3/16s tube launch this fodder at fine velocities (visual not measured -yet) for target purposes. 107s

and 1/4" tubing also sling this light ammo fine but provides a good knuckle wrapping to boot.-CD


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## Henry the Hermit

RHTWIST said:


> You answered my question on handslap when I first started in a month or so back. I am finding your statements so true.
> 
> Most of the ammo I shoot, I am over powering. I shoot quite a bit of light ammo 20-25 grains and my lightest bands
> 
> whether flat or 3/16s tube launch this fodder at fine velocities (visual not measured -yet) for target purposes. 107s
> 
> and 1/4" tubing also sling this light ammo fine but provides a good knuckle wrapping to boot.-CD


It's difficult not to over power when you're first getting started. Most slingshots in the big box stores have much heavier rubber than needed for the typical 1/4 or 3/8 inch ammo they sell. Even if you buy from one of our vendors, you will have trouble finding suitable ammo from local sources.

I'm pleased that you found my answer useful.


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## nutthrower

I agree, this is something I never even thought of till being on this site, I have learned so much and my thanks to all - I now realize why my hands keep getting beat-up, and that with my large tubes I use I needed to be using 1" steels  ya so I'm cutting back a bit , 1" rounds are hard to carry, my pants keep falling down...


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## nutthrower

Dayhiker said:


> Henry I just go by instinct and steel-can impact. I learned a long time ago that double theraband gold is and 3/8 steel is a ridiculous mis-match. Even for accuracy. It's nutz. I think a lot of folks would be surprised to see how much destructive power they can get with, say, a taper of 1-inch to 11/16-inch TBG and 7/16- inch steel balls. I really don't see the need for more power that that, especially if you substitute 45 cal lead for the steel. (talkin' single-layer of course).
> 
> . . . then again there are those who want to shoot at small game from 25 yards and more. But I think that's nutz too!
> 
> Like you say, though: "It all depends". :iono:


I could not agree more Dayhiker, I hunt with my S.S. just as I do my Archery close, close, then closer


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## Grada

It is true that lot of shooters use too much rubber because they think more rubber=more power. I found that for my style of shooting (95-100cm, 39 inch draw lenght), and 10mm lead or 12mm steel ammo , single 25mm (1 inch) straight cut TBG is enough rubber, even for hunting. Strong hand slap mean too much rubber, so for me it is easiest way to determine how much rubber i need for particular ammo. I like to use ammo weight/draw weight proportion. For my use it is about 700-800 gram draw weight per 1 gram ammo weight.

Cheers.


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## JUSTJOB

Great post Henry! I am always open to learning something new, and have been looking for the perfect cut for Theraband Gold at my 29" draw length for .44 cal. lead.


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## RHTWIST

Henry in Panama said:


> RHTWIST said:
> 
> 
> 
> You answered my question on handslap when I first started in a month or so back. I am finding your statements so true.
> 
> Most of the ammo I shoot, I am over powering. I shoot quite a bit of light ammo 20-25 grains and my lightest bands
> 
> whether flat or 3/16s tube launch this fodder at fine velocities (visual not measured -yet) for target purposes. 107s
> 
> and 1/4" tubing also sling this light ammo fine but provides a good knuckle wrapping to boot.-CD
> 
> 
> 
> It's difficult not to over power when you're first getting started. Most slingshots in the big box stores have much heavier rubber than needed for the typical 1/4 or 3/8 inch ammo they sell. Even if you buy from one of our vendors, you will have trouble finding suitable ammo from local sources.
> 
> I'm pleased that you found my answer useful.
Click to expand...

I am not a big forum user. I have a Subaru WRX and am on a site like that; I enjoy weight training and diet and have spent a

little time on a sight for that. I have not found the wealth of knowledge combined with the willingness to share that I find here.

The communicating members of this forum are great and appreciated -CD


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## Henry the Hermit

JUSTJOB said:


> Great post Henry! I am always open to learning something new, and have been looking for the perfect cut for Theraband Gold at my 29" draw length for .44 cal. lead.


This may help you find that magical "perfect" cut.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/30612-cutting-bandstubes-to-length/


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## JUSTJOB

Thanks very much Henry! Very much appreciate it!


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