# Why are people complaining about the OFF TOPIC section or whatever they find in there?



## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

It seems to me that the complaints are directed more at the near non-stop propaganda from a very few members than at a reasonable discussion of politics. The worst offender is no longer with us, and I ask all members to remember that SSF is a family friendly International Forum. It is owned by Canadians, among the most polite people in the world and our members are from everywhere. Please consider that others may have a different opinion about international politics, and discuss it with respect and courtesy.


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## S.S. sLinGeR (Oct 17, 2013)

Good work! Thank you moderators.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Freedom of speech is paramount, this forum has been superb for allowing that since I joined, I joined predominantly for the buzz and for looking into the hive mind and how they made their own wares as well as showing some of my own inventions on the theme.
However, if one complains about certain sectors whilst ignoring others is eventually going to get a few cancelled, we are of course in the cancel culture age which is a pity, I like to think what I share to be good data and what I see happening on the ground in my own immediate environment.

A message that I shared on a recently cancelled thread still runs true, is Lord russell correct, I think so.

If we cannot do this freely, then there is no point having an off topic category, we might as well be compartmentalized like the rest of society and be done.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

The Apprentice said:


> Freedom of speech is paramount, this forum has been superb for allowing that since I joined, I joined predominantly for the buzz and for looking into the hive mind and how they made their own wares as well as showing some of my own inventions on the theme.
> However, if one complains about certain sectors whilst ignoring others is eventually going to get a few cancelled, we are of course in the cancel culture age which is a pity, I like to think what I share to be good data and what I see happening on the ground in my own immediate environment.
> 
> A message that I shared on a recently cancelled thread still runs true, is Lord russell correct, I think so.
> ...


We have no quarrel with freedom of speech, but just as you cannot shout "Fire' in a crowded theater, unless there is indeed a fire, we do not permit members to create dissension and disrupt the Forum by posting on topics which are (in our opinion) designed to create dissension. The offending member is given multiple warnings, and if the warnings are ignored, the member will be removed. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech or the Cancel Culture. It is to maintain a civil Forum.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Henry the Hermit said:


> We have no quarrel with freedom of speech, but just as you cannot shout "Fire' in a crowded theater, unless there is indeed a fire, we do not permit members to create dissension and disrupt the Forum by posting on topics which are (in our opinion) designed to create dissension.
> 
> The offending member is given multiple warnings, and if the warnings are ignored, the member will be removed. This has nothing to do with freedom of speech or the Cancel Culture. It is to maintain a civil Forum.


The last two years has created diversion and seperation of an entire global society, a society which has been thrust into learned helplesness, depression and angst right across the board, if those removed had not had to endure this they would possibly be thinking very differently today.

Several members have shown this by telling me that some of my threads are not designed for this forum and that they would be better shared elsewhere, their opinions I do respect and have no qualms about, so we get rid of the awkwardness within instead of addressing the inner problems, take the easy way out because a few complained rather than trying to ignore or debate logically.

Regulating certain comments is the best way I think, to remove someone who is possibly suffering from depression due to paradigm shifts, who may need more time to think, readjust and be allowed a cooling off period, instead of warnings until they come around and admit their folly is much harder to endure, for them to be removed is futile and possibly drive them further into their already weaken state of mind, my opinion of course.


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## flipgun (Nov 14, 2012)

No offence intended to anyone. When you have used a hammer long enough you get really good at seeing nails that need pounding. Freedom of speech is paramount but people that are stirring crap for that sole purpose, foul the water of intelligent debate and opinion and needs must be excised for the good of the common body. Some people see this as censorship but I regard it in the same way of antibodies against factors that diminish the intent of what was organized and may become a strong enough of a faction to sway or even redirect that intent. The IRA did not Always blow up school buses and people in the street Ya'know.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

The Apprentice said:


> The last two years has created diversion and seperation of an entire global society, a society which has been thrust into learned helplesness, depression and angst right across the board, if those removed had not had to endure this they would possibly be thinking very differently today.
> 
> Several members have shown this by telling me that some of my threads are not designed for this forum and that they would be better shared elsewhere, their opinions I do respect and have no qualms about, so we get rid of the awkwardness within instead of addressing the inner problems, take the easy way out because a few complained rather than trying to ignore or debate logically.
> 
> Regulating certain comments is the best way I think, to remove someone who is possibly suffering from depression due to paradigm shifts, who may need more time to think, readjust and be allowed a cooling off period, instead of warnings until they come around and admit their folly is much harder to endure, for them to be removed is futile and possibly drive them further into their already weaken state of mind, my opinion of course.


I’m a depressed person. 15 years long term. This forum has helped me climb out of that. How? By allowing me an opportunity to be a positive member of a community and by playing by the rules. Not by being allowed by the mods to carpet bomb the forum with propaganda and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. How does that assist anyone? There are plenty of spots for depressed people here, but regardless of their mental state, they too need to play by the rules like anyone else. The forum has to have some sort of policy for those that don’t. It’s not the forum’s job to cure their mental illness, it’s up to the individual to seek out that assistance professionally. Furthermore, I’ve found the mods here to act with an extremely light hand. More than most other online social networks, especially the big name variety.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

Food for thought. 

If a bunch of wood turners showed up on the needle point forum people might consider asking them if a different venue might not be more suitable. Maybe the wood turners are pretty good at not trolling or insulting forum members too often, and the gross offenders are dealt with pretty quickly. And maybe they are even pretty good at keeping all the wood turning chat in the off topic section. 

I could see the moderators dropping them a note suggesting that needle point forum wasn't the best place for wood turning chat. And if the moderators got together and discussed how wood turning chat was making up a substantial portion of the posts, catching the attention of many needlepoint members, and potentially distracting from the mission of the forum, they might wonder about trying to nudge the forum back toward its intended topic. 

They might even talk it through and ponder the question of whether keeping a forum on topic was really a freedom of speech issue or simply just a keeping a forum on topic issue. They might even conclude they are not preventing speech on any topic but merely limiting forum speech to the topic of the forum- sorta in line with why the forum was created in the first place. And while it might seem a bit strange, I could see the wood turners protesting that they had freedom of speech grounds for pushing wood turning on the needlepoint forum. 

Sorry for the cheesy example, but I find creating null parallels and "what if" thought experiments useful tools for thinking things through sometimes.

Note- this is all hypothetical and put out as food for thought. The mods here have *not* had a discussion like this. But scenarios like this have run through my mind.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

If you take a look through the terms of use you might find a bit of enlightenment too. This is a public forum but owned by a private company. By agreeing to the ToU when you signed up you agreed that any and all commentary, as well as all other content shared, belongs to that company. There is no legal right to freedom of speech here. You are to play by the rules of the forum. Your ability to chat on this forum is by the graces of the moderators and forum owners.


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

Full disclosure and to set the record straight.
I started the war thread for the sole purpose of seeking info and feelings from real people on this forum in "off topic"
In the very first post I clearly stated that if anyone was offended I would delete, I did use the most vulgar language I know in disgust and was sent pm. I choose to delete, but only the very first post.
Then came replies of those not happy to 
read and discuss war even though they had to take action to do so by going to off topjc.
A kind moderstor made it clear how to configure ones parameters to avoid and also easy to add anyone to ignore.
Seems this was not enough.
I contacted a mod and asked thread be deleted, 
I repeat,
I asked war thread to be stopped,
Not that I wanted to but to keep the peace,
All I want in the world anyway so felt my tiny action could have a tiny affect.
Seems to me that
PEACE
Starts in your mind and manifistations
of actions.
Exactly why I hate what vlad pute is doing.
My thread was not censored
thx mods
My choice to try and make a little
P E A C E
ukj


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

Honestly, there was nothing wrong with the war thread and most of us realize that right now, we have members really close and involved in what's happening in the Ukraine. I have friends over there myself, so I see the need and I was enjoying following it myself.
The problem wasn't the thread, the problem was and is that people have a choice whether they read a thread or ignor it, and they don't understand that they can change their personal settings, so that the topics that they don't want to look at, will never be seen by them. 
The people attacking, were in the wrong, probably using a phone and getting alerts on every post being made on this site, while not realizing that they can simply change their personal settings to ignore any section that they choose.

Either way, time heals all... 😇 🤪😈


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Reed Lukens said:


> Honestly, there was nothing wrong with the war thread and most of us realize that right now, we have members really close and involved in what's happening in the Ukraine. I have friends over there myself, so I see the need and I was enjoying following it myself.
> The problem wasn't the thread, the problem was and is that people have a choice whether they read a thread or ignor it, and they don't understand that they can change their personal settings, so that the topics that they don't want to look at, will never be seen by them.
> The people attacking, were in the wrong, probably using a phone and getting alerts on every post being made on this site, while not realizing that they can simply change their personal settings to ignore any section that they choose.
> 
> Either way, time heals all... 😇 🤪😈


I was indeed unaware of the settings to filter out the off-topic section. Was I in the wrong for my comments? I suppose that’s a matter of perspective. I do suppose in retrospect I wouldn’t have made them, but they were really directed at a larger issue. Either way, I was kindly supplied with the tools to make my experience cleaner and more to my own personal preference and I’m thankful for the assistance. I’m looking forward to a better experience in the future. Thanks again Reed.


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

Sandstorm said:


> I was indeed unaware of the settings to filter out the off-topic section. Was I in the wrong for my comments? .


No, you were pretty tame.... other's were more direct, which is why I responded with the faq settings when I did. 
As far as I'm concerned, the "Off Topic" section is the place where people can really open up if needed. 
But still, we need to remember that there are children that come on here also, most of which, would be steering clear of certain topics with the help of their parents. 
Overall, this forum is a great place full of great people 🍻


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## Whytey (Sep 26, 2021)

Just wondering if this is truly an international forum as much of the intolerance seems to be coming heavily from American attitudes.....


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Whytey said:


> Just wondering if this is truly an international forum as much of the intolerance seems to be coming heavily from American attitudes.....


Would you care to detail some of that "intolerance"?


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## Whytey (Sep 26, 2021)

Whatever..... I don't need to be here.


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

.


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## Whytey (Sep 26, 2021)

I rest my case. 

To the cool Americans


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## Whytey (Sep 26, 2021)

Sandstorm said:


> …Deuces ✌


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

Sandstorm said:


> I’m a depressed person. 15 years long term. This forum has helped me climb out of that. How? By allowing me an opportunity to be a positive member of a community and by playing by the rules. Not by being allowed by the mods to carpet bomb the forum with propaganda and FUD (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. How does that assist anyone? There are plenty of spots for depressed people here, but regardless of their mental state, they too need to play by the rules like anyone else. The forum has to have some sort of policy for those that don’t. It’s not the forum’s job to cure their mental illness, it’s up to the individual to seek out that assistance professionally. Furthermore, I’ve found the mods here to act with an extremely light hand. More than most other online social networks, especially the big name variety.


What is deemed as nonchalance to one is often different to another, we have minds working at different levels of education, experience and logic that find it hard not to tollerate someone elses point of view, and that is where problems begin.

If we have freinds or family stuck in the middle of a conflict this does not give them the right to claim superintendence over a said conversation with someone else who wants to join in on the debate. 

The category in an off topic debate is open to all as long as it is relevant, and not directly personal and demeening, I see it as my right to join in or stay quiet, that is how life works.


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## Karloshi (Apr 6, 2021)

Personally speaking I have no problem with people saying what they like but i come here for slingshot information and the friendly helpful people who share this wonderful hobby. I have no intention in getting in to a political debate on here as there are plenty of other forums out there that are built for that purpose. If there is going to be an off topic forum then these issues will happen. There is always the option to not read the none slingshot related posts.


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## Zen Sticks (Dec 30, 2021)

Freedom without civility just tends to be anarchy.
We should all, in every moment, try to put forth our best efforts. I try to use my words responsibly. I try not to have my words be pointed. I try not to use my word to harm another person. Compassion and empathy for my fellow humans is far more important to me that being right or just getting what I want. But sometimes I really fail at those things. Sometimes I absolutely screw up. (If you don't believe me, you can ask my wife) Sometimes my own feelings/suffering causes me to lash out. But then (sooner or later) I breathe and try again to put forth my best effort. That's all any of us can do. If ever I offend, please let me know. It's either not my intention. Or I've once again made a mistake and it would be very kind of any of you to help me see my error. 
We are not separate from each other. Look at the last few years. Look at now. We humans are a globally connected community. The "it" affects us all. I believe "someplace else" does not exist. There's no such place as "away". When you flush the toilet it does not go away. It arrives at a place we don't want to look at. But rest assured it is there. It is here.
Every word above was meant with kindness and not directed at anyone. 
I wish you all peace and happiness.


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

More food for thought.

I would bet that just about everyone here posts some off topic stuff. Slingshots are not the only thing going on in the universe, and the slingshot enthusiast members here have additional interests. So things are not quite as black and white as the hypothetical I put up. When thinking about shades of grey, it is interesting to just open up the directory and look at posts different members make, maybe look at who the more prolific recent posters are and what they are putting up, and think about how the members shake out with respect to on vs off topic.

If 90% of the membership is posting on topic 90% of the time and being pretty civil / family friendly with it, and 5% are posting off topic 95% of the time, spending more time challenging others than posting on topic,..... That might be additional food for thought.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

High Desert Flipper said:


> More food for thought.
> 
> I would bet that just about everyone here posts some off topic stuff. Slingshots are not the only thing going on in the universe, and the slingshot enthusiast members here have additional interests. So things are not quite as black and white as the hypothetical I put up. When thinking about shades of grey, it is interesting to just open up the directory and look at posts different members make, maybe look at who the more prolific recent posters are and what they are putting up, and think about how the members shake out with respect to on vs off topic.
> 
> If 90% of the membership is posting on topic 90% of the time and being pretty civil / family friendly with it, and 5% are posting off topic 95% of the time, spending more time challenging others than posting on topic,..... That might be additional food for thought.


Because of my, prolific, for want of a better word, of my off topic creativeness and or political interests I have had direct confrontation here on the forum, to me, this is good because, it tell me that it is making others think about humanity in general, legitimate debate is healthy, hate is futile as Lord Russell said.

The making things thread is doing quite well as such topics often do with 3K plus views, but has come under riduculed as it normally does, on the early Icke forum under the same name it raised 150K, on Richie Alan Forum 65K, what suprises me is, how many people don't make anything and have very little basic real life skills, this is a pity and points to how society has been degraded over the last 30 years that I have been creating things.

On a brighter note; it is great to see others having a go for the first time, some really decent attempts, may we have more of them.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

I was sick from SARs and had a fool post pics of people covered in cow dung for me to look at while I was sick. Another cat took the thread over and when I asked him to stop, he gave me a load of fan-danny about he could post anything he wanted any time. I had the thread removed. People are crazy for the most part, myself included.


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

Well said, a little crazy is a lot less boring than normal as I see it.
As memtioned above myslf included.
But a little or a lot crazy when in a postition of great power can and has been very dangerous, history proves.
ukj


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## tool (Oct 1, 2021)

ukj said:


> Well said, a little crazy is a lot less boring than normal as I see it.
> As memtioned above myslf included.
> But a little or a lot crazy when in a postition of great power can and has been very dangerous, history proves.
> ukj


If you only knew, how bad things really are. Unfortunately, your mind is closed in times it should be open. Godspeed, my fellow shooter. Things are going down fast... Be prepared and buckle up.


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

tool said:


> If you only knew, how bad things really are. Unfortunately, your mind is closed in times it should be open. Godspeed, my fellow shooter. Things are going down fast... Be prepared and buckle up.


Let the games begin...


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Ouch. I actually took time to read through this thread and reflect for a moment. It seems that I’m not half as effed up as I thought I was. 🙈🙊🙉🍩


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## Slide-Easy (Aug 16, 2020)

MOJAVE MO said:


> Ouch. I actually took time to read through this thread and reflect for a moment. It seems that I’m not half as effed up as I thought I was. 🙈🙊🙉🍩


Ain't that some  ?


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

Now children.


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## cromag (Jan 17, 2021)

What did I miss? I always miss the good stuff because I don't read the stuff that has no interest to me or posters who I can tell are just pounding on the beehive. Personally , I think this place has crappy moderation because I count on the moderators to send me a note when something is going down and I have yet to have any notifications,,,whas up with that?!
Best defense against the trolls of the world is ignorifcation


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## Pedroito (Aug 22, 2021)

- ok, i can't remove my troll message to the NPCs, so I edit it, but sad to see the propaganda reach here as well, pretty disgusting tbf -


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

cromag said:


> What did I miss? I always miss the good stuff because I don't read the stuff that has no interest to me or posters who I can tell are just pounding on the beehive. Personally , I think this place has crappy moderation because I count on the moderators to send me a note when something is going down and I have yet to have any notifications,,,whas up with that?!
> Best defense against the trolls of the world is ignorifcation


I most humbly apologize for not keeping you informed of the latest dustup on SSF. I know how frustrating it can be to miss out on a good free for all, especially when the beer bottles start flying.


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

tool said:


> If you only knew, how bad things really are. Unfortunately, your mind is closed in times it should be open. Godspeed, my fellow shooter. Things are going down fast... Be prepared and buckle up.


It is far easier for the majority to turn the blind eye rather than face the problems being produced in our name, then post facto justifications are abound when the problem comes clearly into view.


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## tool (Oct 1, 2021)

The Apprentice said:


> It is far easier for the majority to turn the blind eye rather than face the problems being produced in our name, then post facto justifications are abound when the problem comeclearly into view.


Cognitive dissonance. It will hit some folks very, very hard. We're living in interesting times, aren't we?


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## 43844 (Jun 1, 2020)

tool said:


> Cognitive dissonance. It will hit some folks very, very hard. We're living in interesting times, aren't we?


We sure are, those who have somewhere to hide will be able to miss some of the fun, the majority will simply go with the flow, but never know why.


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## ukj (Jan 10, 2021)

Sometimes I forget to log in before reading and many posts confirm my ignor choices.
ukj


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## Sandstorm (Apr 5, 2021)

Since I figured out the filter feature forum life has been a breeze. I just pop over occasionally to check up on the dumpster fire.


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