# THEY'RE HERE! HFX TESTING RESULTS



## Mork (Aug 21, 2010)

Because of the recent controversy surrounding the taking of deer size game using HFX.Also because there seemed to be much confusion and unanswered questions as to the pull weight and energy of the HFX .I took it upon myself to procure and test the HFX.It was tested as sold straight from the box with no modifications of any type using standard arrows. I tested it with an open mind and no bias as to its possible potentials.
Upon my initial inspection it appeared to be a well crafted product.It had a good feel and weight in my hand.It appears to be constructed of a sturdy solid aluminum handle.It had a hard thin material covering that appeared to be shrink tubing.The rod for the forks was of one long piece wrapped to below and just inside .the handle .It appeared to be aluminum also and 1/4 inch thick. The arrow rest I thought was of a good design that was made to flip down when an arrow was shot and also to be held in the down position so that balls could be shot .The black tubes do appear to be heavier than most.
I was excited to get it home and begin testing.
Unfortunately those are the good points .I was extremely disappointed with my testing results.

The first thing I attempted to do was to shoot steel balls.They seemed to shoot very well.The bad part is the arrow rest flipped up after every shot and had to be repositioned down.It is a pain.
I then got three arrows of different weights. With the following weights of 372 grains,456 grains,and 559 grains.
I pulled each to a 28 inch draw .It was extremely difficult to draw the arrows as they did not want to stay on the rest.I tried several different drawing methods .The HFX is very difficult to use and is not for a beginner.I believe it would take a lot of practice to master its use just to keep the arrow on its rest.You can not concentrate on a target because it takes a great amount of concentration just to keep the arrow on the rest.
The next problem I encountered was the arrows fletching were being stripped from the first shot.After three shots one arrows fletchings were completely shredded and it was needing to be refletched.

DRAW WEIGHT AT 28 INCHES ......25 pound
TEST RESULTS:
372 grain arrow......................456 grain arrow ...................559 grain arrow
at 28 inches............................ at 28 inches..........................at 28 inches

Average feet per second three shots for each arrow :

117 fps.........................................115.5fps...................................111.1fps

Foot pounds generated: 
11.31 ft lb........................................13.51 ft lb..................................15.32 ft lb

Below is a chart that is a guide line to the foot pounds needed to take various game taken from a bow web site.
All I can say to conclude is to let your concience be your guide in using this as a weapon for game larger then rabbits.

So, will that be enough? Take a look at Easton's Kinetic Energy Recommendation Chart.​​Kinetic Energy:Hunting Usage:​
< 25 ft. lbs.​Small Game (rabbit, groundhog, etc.)25-41 ft. lbs.​Medium Game (deer, antelope, etc.)42-65 ft. lbs.​Large Game (elk, black bear, wild boar, etc.)> 65 ft. lbs.​Toughest Game (cape buffalo, grizzly, musk ox, etc.)​


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Mork
If you or anyone else can bring a HFX to the ECST we can verify your test results.Hope you can make it.


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## frosty2 (Aug 23, 2010)

I have an HFX and I like it. I do concur with most of what you said. It is pretty obviously a short range weapon and not really adequate for deer sized game, although with a real sharp Eskimo head I'm sure it would kill one. I smoothed the rest with sand paper and shoot cut down plastic fletch, this helps. I could not keep it on the rest either until I replaced the nocks with golf tees. I am still trying to come up with a better method. I sure shoots lead well and my rest only pops up once in a while. I really think the arrow shooting is better for bow fishing with real heavy fiberglass arrows. Haven't got to try that yet. It's a well made shooter and I like it but I don't think it will put all the other makers out of business.

frosty2


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

Great post, and good job on posting objective results!


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## deerhunter04 (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok I will open mouth insert foot lol. Nice job on the tests seems you covered every thing. Man ihate bein wrong lol. I should be used to it I have a wife. But it is a blast to bowfish with if you get a chance try it. I would post pics but I don't have a computer all I have is my phone for internet


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## King Cat (Dec 19, 2009)

Mork,
I want to commend you on your scientific investigation and reporting. I will be eagerly reading all of your post from now on.


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Well done. That is well needed data providing some objectivity on this topic. I would love to see an HFX retested at ECST for some definitive public conformation. Perhaps ChiefAJ will have his TV crew record the Chrony results and show long range arrow flight.


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## Melchior (Dec 27, 2009)

Many thanks!! Finally an objective look on the "HFX" hype. What we can see clearly is that the initial energy is about 50% of the terminal energy that's needed for hunting medium game. I suspected that from the beginning...


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

Thank you Mork


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

Your measurements of 15+/- ft-lbs from the slingshot/arrow combination sounds about what I would expect. But I don't put much trust in the "hunting chart" you have posted. It says, for example, 42-65 ft-lbs for large game (elk, black bear, boars, etc). That doesn't make sense to me. The average .22LR rifle packs a good 125+ ft-lbs. You don't see people hunting elk and bear with .22's! More like a .30-06 (2900 ft-lbs!) Is there something special about archery that an arrow with much less energy is superior in killing power to a bullet with 20x to 50x the energy of the arrow?


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Penetration with a broadhead can be very good.

The arrow shaft keeps the wound open.

The arrow swings up and down in flight, like a sine curve. This opens up a fairly large wound channel.

The mass of the arrow is much higher than the mass of a .22 bullet. This causes a different kind of injury.

There are tons and tons of videos about successful hunting with bow+arrow.

But of course the faster the arrow, the better are your chances. This does not mean you can not kill a deer with a slingbow. You just need a real good hit. Luck and practice are the two things that can make that happen.

Jörg


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Penetration with a broadhead can be very good.
> 
> The arrow shaft keeps the wound open.
> 
> ...


I aggree Jörg, but i think you will never shoot an animal at 30 m with something going only at 110fps.
American native bows were only 45 # and only made of wood, and they killed lot of buffalos, thats true, but i imagine they were really close to their pray


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

I also would not shoot at a deer from 30 meters with a slingbow, but a very good shooter could do it.

Arrows generally have to be refledged from time to time, even if you use fancy arrow rests. It happens to me all the time when I shoot my bow or crossbow. No big deal.

ChiefAJ is a much respected, very active slingshot expert and I see NO reason to ban him from this forum.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Did I miss something; hhow fast does the HFX shoot say 1/2 steel shot? -- Tex


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

This is very interesting, but what I know of the delicacy of the mamallian body is that a skull can be fractured by 5-7 lbs of energy and the skin (even the toughest of leathers) can be penetrated by only about three lbs (save Elephant or Walrus hide say), as long as the cutting tool is razor sharp. This opens the possibility that the largest of animals can be killed by a rock or sharp stick, so in essence I agree with Joerg about the potential and the ethics of only hunting small game, and I agree with Mork, about the ethics of hunting with due respect. Technically, a deer can crack it's own head open by standing up too fast under an out-cropping of rock and pierce its own heart by running into a reasonably sharp stick. I would not hunt with a sling-bow anything larger than a Bunny, because I could probably throw a dart faster and harder with the 'Swiss-dart' technique. I would not hunt with a sling-bow in England full stop, it is highly illegal.
Thank-you and any questions on the potential strength of skulls and ribs etc. can be brought up privately, as this is not the place for an anatomy lesson.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

I believe the HFX could certainly take medium game. The real issue is, most people do not have the stalking skills to employ it with effectiveness. Many a moron would try to kill a deer at 50 yards with it, this may be true. But is that the fault of the product, or is that the fault of the consumer? I think the latter. I think the HFX is a great concept, but it needs further development and IMO should be better rigged for flatbands.


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## Marbles (Jan 23, 2010)

Dave Canterbury of the "PATHFINDER SCHOOL" Has a better idea which is the use of a "WISKER BISCUIT" as an arrow rest, just my opinion nothing against CHIEF AJ . There are vidios of the "WISKER BICUIT" set up on U TUBE.Iam sure "CHIEF AJ or DAVE CANTERBURY" and some others with enough experience could take game as big as a deer with a sling shot but not the average inexperienced shooter


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Have used such arrow rests as well, and they do work. I even made one myself, and added a draw length increase to the frame, plus I used flat bands.






Even though this is probably as much power as you can possibly get from a slingbow, I would not try to hunt anything larger than small game with it.


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## joseph_curwen (Feb 8, 2010)

Marbles said:


> Dave Canterbury of the "PATHFINDER SCHOOL" Has a better idea which is the use of a "WISKER BISCUIT" as an arrow rest, just my opinion nothing against CHIEF AJ . There are vidios of the "WISKER BICUIT" set up on U TUBE.Iam sure "CHIEF AJ or DAVE CANTERBURY" and some others with enough experience could take game as big as a deer with a sling shot but not the average inexperienced shooter


Bad idea, i tried it, and the biscuit slow down the arrow a lot.

Biscuit is avoid by serious bow shooter to, for the same reason


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## Marbles (Jan 23, 2010)

Joerg you can slip a 1/4 inch piece of latex or other tubing on the knock of the arrow for a better feel in the pouch hardly any weight is added, as far as a BISCUIT slowing down the arrow use stronger bands or slightly enlarge the hole in the "BISCUIT" Making longer arrows also helps this is close range shooting we are talking here,


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Marbles, I will try that idea next time I test arrows. Now that the slingshot community has rediscovered the butterfly style, I think it is time to see how fast an arrow flies with a 1,60 draw and 15 kg draw force. That requires a slingshot frame with a set back arrow guide and also an arm protection, in case something goes wrong. Will be a monster of a slingshot, but I have to make it.

I think it is possible to achieve compound bow like results.

Jörg


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Marbles, I will try that idea next time I test arrows. Now that the slingshot community has rediscovered the butterfly style, I think it is time to see how fast an arrow flies with a 1,60 draw and 15 kg draw force. That requires a slingshot frame with a set back arrow guide and also an arm protection, in case something goes wrong. Will be a monster of a slingshot, but I have to make it.
> 
> I think it is possible to achieve compound bow like results.
> 
> Jörg


You would need some kind of track to acheive a draw length that long ... no? maybe a longer dart?


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## Sam (Jul 5, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Marbles, I will try that idea next time I test arrows. Now that the slingshot community has rediscovered the butterfly style, I think it is time to see how fast an arrow flies with a 1,60 draw and 15 kg draw force. That requires a slingshot frame with a set back arrow guide and also an arm protection, in case something goes wrong. Will be a monster of a slingshot, but I have to make it.
> 
> I think it is possible to achieve compound bow like results.
> 
> ...


I think you could surpass the power of Compound bows if you did that...


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Well, if you have watched my video you saw the set back whisker biscuit which allows a longer draw. Now imagine it would be set back even further so the full butterfly could be drawn.

As the tip of the arrow would be far behind your shooting hand, some kind of protection seems necessary. This would be a piece of wood or leather that works as a shield and carries the whisker biscuit at the same time.

Jörg


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## whipcrackdeadbunny (May 22, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Well, if you have watched my video you saw the set back whisker biscuit which allows a longer draw. Now imagine it would be set back even further so the full butterfly could be drawn.
> 
> As the tip of the arrow would be far behind your shooting hand, some kind of protection seems necessary. This would be a piece of wood or leather that works as a shield and carries the whisker biscuit at the same time.
> 
> Jörg


I saw the video when it was made and had forgotten how the WB aided the positioning, that could work nicely; I would be worried about leather, you're starting to look at serious energy and damage, might I suggest a blunt arrow or a hard protector; one on an angle should aid deflection.


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Jorg
I want to make a comment on a statement you made about the arrow moving up and down in flight,it is called porpoising,when the arrow moves left and right in flight that is called fish tailing.Both are undesirable characteristics of incorrect spine and arrow selection.Both of these characteristics rob the arrow of energy and accuracy.Archers strive for perfectly straight arrow flight.If you do not have perfect arrow flight it robs your arrow of penetration.
Two people can shoot the same bow yet require different spined arrows because of their release.An arrow spine chart is only a suggested starting point to begin from.
An arrow should only move left to right upon release from the bow due to archers paradox.It should recover and be flying straight within a few feet.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Please, would somebody with a HFX shoot a 1/2 steel ball bearing over the chrony with un-trimmed bands and a 28 inch draw length. -- Tex


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## Mork (Aug 21, 2010)

'Tex-Shooter' ....Soon as I get a chance I will test marbles ...7/16 steel balls ...... and 1/2 inch steel balls.


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## Mork (Aug 21, 2010)

Okay, Here are the results of the Speed testing of the HFX for .....marbles.....steel balls ....and .490 lead.I shot 3 of each.The listed speeds are the average. They were shot holding at a 28 inch draw.

5/8 inch marbles..................................184.1 fps

7/16 inch steel balls............................183.4 fps

1/2 inch steel balls..............................173.6 fps

.490 lead balls......................................165 fps

I still had a problem with the arrow rest jumping back up after each shot.A real pain .
By the way thank you to everyone for the positive comments on the testing of the HFX.


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## deerhunter04 (Aug 24, 2010)

Yeah I had the same problem. That's why I strictly use the hfx for for my arrows and a qp for balls. I basicall shoot paintballs though cause I live in town with a lot of house around


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## Jaybird (Dec 20, 2009)

Joe
The Indians on the east and west coast used 40 or 45lb.bowsThe buffalo hunters had short heavy bows that went over 45lbs.


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## frosty2 (Aug 23, 2010)

Mork said:


> Okay, Here are the results of the Speed testing of the HFX for .....marbles.....steel balls ....and .490 lead.I shot 3 of each.The listed speeds are the average. They were shot holding at a 28 inch draw.
> 
> 5/8 inch marbles..................................184.1 fps
> 
> ...


Mork,
I gave the spring on the arrow rest a bit of a stretch to make it less "jump up" prone.
frosty2


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

JoergS said:


> Have used such arrow rests as well, and they do work. I even made one myself, and added a draw length increase to the frame, plus I used flat bands.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## JoergS (Dec 17, 2009)

Dan, not to worry, my design idea is simple.

A wooden plank (length 80 cm) is the base plate for the slingshot.

On one side, two eyebolts are mounted as the fork, and on the underside the handle is attached.

On the other side, a piece of Thera Tube silver is attached, upright, and slightly grooved on top. This is the arrow rest.

When you draw out, it is physically impossible to hit your hand as the plank protects you 100%.

The arrow rest is made out of rubber so it bends down. This is necessary because I want the full acceleration phase. A whisker biscuit would stop the pouch and end the acceleration.

Can be tested in a vise first.

Jörg


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