# Slipping bands? Try this if ya havent already.



## pult421

So i noticed my bands slipping no matter how tight i wrapped the tie. I wondered what it could be... well.. here are my thoughts and solution. You make your band grooves on a slingshot .. but did you ever wonder if by a hair you are making a dip in the middle of the fork tip where the groove is? So.. i noticed the slipping coming from the middle.. and said .. bam. This is the issue. On a cylindrical fork tip like a natural. You have a constant pressure of the band all around. But when ya hit a flat spot that is not all that flat.. you may get a slip. The edges on band grooves hold because there is a slight bend at the ends..so i took a small half inch by 3/4 inch piece of rubber .. made a tri fold.. and placed in the middle of the band groove. Wrap twice.. lay band.. wrap 3 times.. insert folded rubber.. wrap twice.. then use paracord to lay the loop.. wrap two last times and pull excess through. Hope this helps someone.


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## brucered

Interesting way of doing it.

I use this method and have yet to have a band come loose, shift or fall off.





Nonslip band tying, even with no grooves on fork


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## Chuck Daehler

Why tie when you can just use slots...double the band over on itself about a half inch, insert a something...like a section of cocktail straw, piece of #12 or #14 insulated electrical wire, a piece of nylon trimmer line or whatever...called the "match stick" method, stretch and insert in the slot? It's the fastest easiest most secure non fuss no muss method of attaching flats to a fork. Really, I don't know why people still insist on tieing in the first place unless they just want something to do.


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## pult421

Chuck Daehler said:


> Why tie when you can just use slots...double the band over on itself about a half inch, insert a something...like a section of cocktail straw, piece of #12 or #14 insulated electrical wire, a piece of nylon trimmer line or whatever...called the "match stick" method, stretch and insert in the slot? It's the fastest easiest most secure non fuss no muss method of attaching flats to a fork. Really, I don't know why people still insist on tieing in the first place unless they just want something to do.


 i have been dying to try that method but i dont know with what kind saw blade i can make the cut with.. i like to be perfect. Well.. kinda.


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## pult421

brucered said:


> Interesting way of doing it.
> I use this method and have yet to have a band come loose, shift or fall off.
> 
> 
> 
> Nonslip band tying, even with no grooves on fork


 dude. I looked this up.. and tried it.. it works.. but for my special situation.. it still slipped!!?? I was like no way.. cause it does work.. but i figured my groove was off a bit.. now chuck got me wantin to try slots..


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## brucered

I have yet to try slots either. For me, there is more risk in wrecking a fork that I have carved , spent hours sanding and finishing, only to screw up a slot cut.

It must weaken the fork tips as well. You are essentially cutting a slot in that portion. More susceptible to breaks from drops, fork hits etc too.

At least that is my thought, maybe I'm alone in it though.


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## pult421

brucered said:


> I have yet to try slots either. For me, there is more risk in wrecking a fork that I have carved , spent hours sanding and finishing, only to screw up a slot cut.
> It must weaken the fork tips as well. You are essentially cutting a slot in that portion. More susceptible to breaks from drops, fork hits etc too.
> At least that is my thought, maybe I'm alone in it though.


 youre not.. some materials will be awesome with slots. Like chucks micarta slingshots. But things like ply and multiplex.. idk.


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## Chuck Daehler

Yes, I agree, Bruce Red, with what you said, BUT. Lemme address points above one by one so you and others can make a fair judgement.

Consider this a tutorial of sorts for first time slotters.

1. If you double the band over on itself so there is about 3/4 inch of double over, and insert a peg in the bend of the band, called the "match stick" method (twig from a tree in an extreme situation would work) into the bend or loop, then holding the bend with the thing in it between thumb and forefinger, stretch and insert down into the slot. IF the slot isn't too wide or too thin, it will hold without fail. Now let's go over some "ifs".

2. What saw do I use? I cut my slots with an ordinary hack saw, that's a pretty thin blade, carefully, with masking tape over the tip -with a line drawn on it- on both sides of the fork where the cut goes. I make the first few saw motions to get the cut started straight and carefully check it on BOTH sides to make sure all is working as planned. Then I make several more saw motions and check again, both sides and so on until I am done with the slot..then do the other fork. I mount the frame in a rather large vise with a soft cloth over the frame handle to make sure the vise doesn't mar it...and close the vise jaws with common sense tightness..not too tight so as to mar the handle, not too loose so the frame moves or slips. You can play with an ordinary piece of wood to make a few test slots so you can familiarize yourself before you go head long into a frame.

3. I use a caliper to mark a dot on the masking tape so both slots are in the same position on the fork tips.

4. Now let's address what Bruce said about weakening the tips. I make my fork tips with enough material that a slot won't make it so weak it would break. What is "enough material"? That depends on what the fork tip is made of of course but if the frame is made of decent material, and we hope it is (!) then a slot which leaves 1/8th of material on each side of the slot is the minimum I would permit..best to leave 3/16ths of an inch or so. And of course the fork geometry plays a factor here..note my forks (see the collection photo posted today by "Susi", my wife's gallery. Note my forks are pretty beefy or made of steel in some cases.

5. Finishing the slot and widening it to spec is easy but done with care and doesn't take long at all. I use first 80-100 grit paper, an inch wide by four inch long "belt" of it cut from a larger piece of sand paper. I slip this through the slot and work it back and forth on each side of the slot carefully and thoroughly to do two things. First, to obviously sand off saw marks and second to round the corners of the slot so they don't cut into the band. Next, after the slot is widened a bit I fold the paper so it is twice as thick and work it gently into the slot again to widen it just a bit. Next I go to 200 grit and repeat, being careful to not widen the slot a heck of a lot but to smooth the inside and to round the edges a bit more. Next, 300 grit briefly and that's it.

So how do you know if the slot is too slim or too wide? Remember I suggested to practice slotting on scrap wood. That way you can sand, try a band attachment, if it's too slim, widen it a bit with sand paper until a doubled over band will, with peg, stay in place and barely fit when stretched. After you've made several practice slots THAT WORK, then you are ready for your frame. If you are making a natty, use a branch to practice on. If not, use a piece of scrap from the "U" cut out of the fork void. Yes, beads of sweat will form on your forhead and yes it's going to have to go slowly. I've made many slots and believe me it's 100% concentration and yes, slowly...checking both sides of the slot frequently.

And make sure you put masking tape on the inside and outside of the fork tip to draw your cut line on both sides...that way you can check to make sure the slot is cutting correctly and not slanted.

I cut both slots about half way, then put the saw into BOTH OF THEM and saw them the rest of the way, one sort of guides the other and go SLOWLY a few saw motions at a time. You can cut each individually to a point but to get a flat bottom you need to cut both at the same time else it gets a little clumsy trying to move a saw without banging the other fork on the inside of the "U".

I use a new hack saw blade, old ones want to cut in a slant because one side of the teeth is usually worn more than the other causing a curved cut. Use the thinnest you can get, that way if you goof a little, no matter, the widening process will eat up the goof.

Top slots with the hole at the bottom are tougher...for OTT frames and I don't use that method. Hats off to the precision guys who can drill and slot OTT top slots without issue!!! I'm not an OTT shooter thank goodness.

What if you want to use double bands then change to single bands, say if you want to hunt and use righteous ammo and pull lbs, you might want to use double 20mm TBG but for practice only a single band. Fine. Make the slots wide enough to fit the double bands and when it's time to change to singles, just save a few fragments an inch long of broken band and use them as shims, to make the stretched single band equal to the double band in thickness. It's simple. All my frames are slotted for double bands and mostly I use singles with shims.

I used to NOT use the peg and some slipped, rarely, but slipped..then I started using pegs exclusively, why not? It guarantees the bands won't slip.

Wham-o's "Sportsman" board cut used slots and so have many other vintage frames I've owned as a kid.

One post recently had a groove cut in the natural fork tip AND a slot to appease both methods. I tied bands as a kid and also used slots, and same-same a few years ago..finally deciding slots rule.

What if you mess up?
You can fill the messed up slot with a slim insert of the same material using epoxy and re slot it..it's not going to show much if at all, depends on how bad the goof was. Have I ever messed up a slot? Yes, twice and patched it and it was invisible in the finished frame.

Other than slotting, how can I get away from tieing?

Thumb screw clips or screw driver type or coin width slotted screws with clips are also dandy ways to anchor bands but they look "equipmenty" to me and are one more thing to fuss with so I don't use mechanical clips or screws of any sort...but they work, are fast to change bands and hold well.

Nathan's (Simple Shot) and Bill Hays' clips (Pocket Predator) work fine...it is your call however. YSYEO has a dandy method of using Chicago screws/bolts...he has a vid on this on youtube...if you can't find it PM you'llshootyoureyeout and he'll give you a link.

For tubes, Byudsai has a dandy no tie method he invented...PM him for the links..you can also use holes and BBs or bearings or shot of any metal which are the right diameter and golf tee points to plug the free end of the tube so it won't pull out.

I think the fear of messing up a nice frame is a leading cause for not cutting grooves or slots, many frames are slick smooth and with no anchor at all for that reason...aesthetics and fear. I'm a function nut so aesthetics and I don't get along much yet the slot is absolutely the cleanest and most non interrupting method of attaching a band to a fork.

Note also that the loose short end of the band coming out of the slot is positioned so it pads the actual band rather than flop flop around and ruin your sight picture. It's held tight against the fork tip by the stretched band over it. See the drawing below please. Click on the images to enlarge them..sorry for the rather low quality on the bottom image...dunno what happened.


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## pult421

Well chuck that takes away alot of ifs. Im gonna try slotting some scrap pieces of wood to see exactly how it would work for me.


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## Chuck Daehler

You can orient the slots two ways.. one is in line with the bands as pulled, and that's fine, the other and my favorite is to slot at right angles to the bands as pulled, they have more "grab" and friction to hold the slot that way. I put the bend inside the fork to widen things over all a bit to lessen band congestion at the fork when the bands contract. I don't get fork hits either as you may fear. I like wide deep forks to assure no fork hits and no band congestion occurs...resulting in errant shots.

I suggest you go cut a fork and not finish it, any fork of proper thickness would do...and practice. After your first couple slots, cut them off and do it again on the same practice fork. When you are out of fork you just made yourself a nice piece of fire wood. Or practice on two such forks...whatever it takes to get you straight on cutting slots and reduce the forehead perspiration to a minimum.

I agree with you totally..practice first then go for the money. AFTER you do a few you'll be a slot cuttin' guy. Just take it easy, carefully, use masking tape with a line drawn on it with a straight edge and you'll do fine.

Note, there is something different from cutting a board for practice or a flat piece and cutting a fork in a vise...take my suggestion and use some test forks first, that will simulate the process much better.

I've made about 30 slingshots, that's nuthin compared to many here, but most have been slotted...only three weren't. My collection photo has 26...rest were given away.


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## Chuck Daehler

I've edited this a couple times, refresh the page and make sure you have the current edit..I'll stop editing now (finally).


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## pult421

Chuck Daehler said:


> I've edited this a couple times, refresh the page and make sure you have the current edit..I'll stop editing now (finally).


 lol its ok man. You have info. So far you have helped me more than you think. Not with just this post either. Thanks alot chuck. I read the edited version as well. Ive seen your collection. Those are some really nice slingshots. Whoever received one is a lucky sumbersh lol


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## Chuck Daehler

I tried at first a coping saw...the cut came out squirrelly so I tried a hack saw and it worked much better. There is a saw that is a regular wood saw that is flat and short...I can't remember the name of it...I think it's a "back saw" or "Japanese pull saw"..it is very thin it'll work. It's like a miter saw but the metal blade is much thinner. Frankly that' what I would use if I could get one here in monkeyland...I haven't seen one.

Volp uses one like this per a vid he made of making a frame and others use them as posted in their vids. The wider blade guides itself better than a hack saw blade that can wander a bit and I think the Back Saw or Japanese pull saw's design lends itself better to controlling it.


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## Chuck Daehler

http://www.lowes.com/pd_445721-48442-83-16008___?productId=4683185&pl=1&Ntt=back+saw here is one from Lowe's lowes.com looks ideal...maybe Xacto makes one too... check around at the marts and building supplies.

Here's a pull saw from lowes.com also
http://www.lowes.com/pd_375302-281-213103___?productId=3612246&pl=1&Ntt=pull+saw


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## Chuck Daehler

Someone asked me why I like such wide narrow fork prods. That wide fork side sort of helps me to orient the frame straight rather than cant it up or down when I look across it surface when sighting. It also furnishes more than enough fork to slot.


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## Ibojoe

Meanwhile back to the solution of slipping bands, mine were slipping as well so I tried this. It works! Without taking a saw to My new slingshot. I like tying my bands on! Glad you made this post! Feel bad about your idea getting pounded on like that. It's a good, simple solution to the problem of slipping bands. Keep posting!!!!!!


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## treefork

brucered said:


> Interesting way of doing it.
> 
> I use this method and have yet to have a band come loose, shift or fall off.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Nonslip band tying, even with no grooves on fork


I've been doing it this way from the beginning . :thumbsup:


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## Blue Raja

Lots of good information here - thanks! For centuries, archers have made similar slots in half-inch diameter arrow shafts . Google search for "self-nocks." Chuck incorporates some techniques that have stood the test of time.


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## truthornothing

Chuck Daehler said:


> Yes, I agree, Bruce Red, with what you said, BUT. Lemme address points above one by one so you and others can make a fair judgement.
> 
> Consider this a tutorial of sorts for first time slotters.
> 
> 1. If you double the band over on itself so there is about 3/4 inch of double over, and insert a peg in the bend of the band, called the "match stick" method (twig from a tree in an extreme situation would work) into the bend or loop, then holding the bend with the thing in it between thumb and forefinger, stretch and insert down into the slot. IF the slot isn't too wide or too thin, it will hold without fail. Now let's go over some "ifs".
> 
> 2. What saw do I use? I cut my slots with an ordinary hack saw, that's a pretty thin blade, carefully, with masking tape over the tip -with a line drawn on it- on both sides of the fork where the cut goes. I make the first few saw motions to get the cut started straight and carefully check it on BOTH sides to make sure all is working as planned. Then I make several more saw motions and check again, both sides and so on until I am done with the slot..then do the other fork. I mount the frame in a rather large vise with a soft cloth over the frame handle to make sure the vise doesn't mar it...and close the vise jaws with common sense tightness..not too tight so as to mar the handle, not too loose so the frame moves or slips. You can play with an ordinary piece of wood to make a few test slots so you can familiarize yourself before you go head long into a frame.
> 
> 3. I use a caliper to mark a dot on the masking tape so both slots are in the same position on the fork tips.
> 
> 4. Now let's address what Bruce said about weakening the tips. I make my fork tips with enough material that a slot won't make it so weak it would break. What is "enough material"? That depends on what the fork tip is made of of course but if the frame is made of decent material, and we hope it is (!) then a slot which leaves 1/8th of material on each side of the slot is the minimum I would permit..best to leave 3/16ths of an inch or so. And of course the fork geometry plays a factor here..note my forks (see the collection photo posted today by "Susi", my wife's gallery. Note my forks are pretty beefy or made of steel in some cases.
> 
> 5. Finishing the slot and widening it to spec is easy but done with care and doesn't take long at all. I use first 80-100 grit paper, an inch wide by four inch long "belt" of it cut from a larger piece of sand paper. I slip this through the slot and work it back and forth on each side of the slot carefully and thoroughly to do two things. First, to obviously sand off saw marks and second to round the corners of the slot so they don't cut into the band. Next, after the slot is widened a bit I fold the paper so it is twice as thick and work it gently into the slot again to widen it just a bit. Next I go to 200 grit and repeat, being careful to not widen the slot a heck of a lot but to smooth the inside and to round the edges a bit more. Next, 300 grit briefly and that's it.
> 
> So how do you know if the slot is too slim or too wide? Remember I suggested to practice slotting on scrap wood. That way you can sand, try a band attachment, if it's too slim, widen it a bit with sand paper until a doubled over band will, with peg, stay in place and barely fit when stretched. After you've made several practice slots THAT WORK, then you are ready for your frame. If you are making a natty, use a branch to practice on. If not, use a piece of scrap from the "U" cut out of the fork void. Yes, beads of sweat will form on your forhead and yes it's going to have to go slowly. I've made many slots and believe me it's 100% concentration and yes, slowly...checking both sides of the slot frequently.
> 
> And make sure you put masking tape on the inside and outside of the fork tip to draw your cut line on both sides...that way you can check to make sure the slot is cutting correctly and not slanted.
> 
> I cut both slots about half way, then put the saw into BOTH OF THEM and saw them the rest of the way, one sort of guides the other and go SLOWLY a few saw motions at a time. You can cut each individually to a point but to get a flat bottom you need to cut both at the same time else it gets a little clumsy trying to move a saw without banging the other fork on the inside of the "U".
> 
> I use a new hack saw blade, old ones want to cut in a slant because one side of the teeth is usually worn more than the other causing a curved cut. Use the thinnest you can get, that way if you goof a little, no matter, the widening process will eat up the goof.
> 
> Top slots with the hole at the bottom are tougher...for OTT frames and I don't use that method. Hats off to the precision guys who can drill and slot OTT top slots without issue!!! I'm not an OTT shooter thank goodness.
> 
> What if you want to use double bands then change to single bands, say if you want to hunt and use righteous ammo and pull lbs, you might want to use double 20mm TBG but for practice only a single band. Fine. Make the slots wide enough to fit the double bands and when it's time to change to singles, just save a few fragments an inch long of broken band and use them as shims, to make the stretched single band equal to the double band in thickness. It's simple. All my frames are slotted for double bands and mostly I use singles with shims.
> 
> I used to NOT use the peg and some slipped, rarely, but slipped..then I started using pegs exclusively, why not? It guarantees the bands won't slip.
> 
> Wham-o's "Sportsman" board cut used slots and so have many other vintage frames I've owned as a kid.
> 
> One post recently had a groove cut in the natural fork tip AND a slot to appease both methods. I tied bands as a kid and also used slots, and same-same a few years ago..finally deciding slots rule.
> 
> What if you mess up?
> You can fill the messed up slot with a slim insert of the same material using epoxy and re slot it..it's not going to show much if at all, depends on how bad the goof was. Have I ever messed up a slot? Yes, twice and patched it and it was invisible in the finished frame.
> 
> Other than slotting, how can I get away from tieing?
> 
> Thumb screw clips or screw driver type or coin width slotted screws with clips are also dandy ways to anchor bands but they look "equipmenty" to me and are one more thing to fuss with so I don't use mechanical clips or screws of any sort...but they work, are fast to change bands and hold well.
> 
> Nathan's (Simple Shot) and Bill Hays' clips (Pocket Predator) work fine...it is your call however. YSYEO has a dandy method of using Chicago screws/bolts...he has a vid on this on youtube...if you can't find it PM you'llshootyoureyeout and he'll give you a link.
> 
> For tubes, Byudsai has a dandy no tie method he invented...PM him for the links..you can also use holes and BBs or bearings or shot of any metal which are the right diameter and golf tee points to plug the free end of the tube so it won't pull out.
> 
> I think the fear of messing up a nice frame is a leading cause for not cutting grooves or slots, many frames are slick smooth and with no anchor at all for that reason...aesthetics and fear. I'm a function nut so aesthetics and I don't get along much yet the slot is absolutely the cleanest and most non interrupting method of attaching a band to a fork.
> 
> Note also that the loose short end of the band coming out of the slot is positioned so it pads the actual band rather than flop flop around and ruin your sight picture. It's held tight against the fork tip by the stretched band over it. See the drawing below please. Click on the images to enlarge them..sorry for the rather low quality on the bottom image...dunno what happened.


Chuck, what is the Tom Thumb used for ?


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## pult421

truthornothing said:


> Chuck Daehler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree, Bruce Red, with what you said, BUT. Lemme address points above one by one so you and others can make a fair judgement.
> 
> Consider this a tutorial of sorts for first time slotters.
> 
> 1. If you double the band over on itself so there is about 3/4 inch of double over, and insert a peg in the bend of the band, called the "match stick" method (twig from a tree in an extreme situation would work) into the bend or loop, then holding the bend with the thing in it between thumb and forefinger, stretch and insert down into the slot. IF the slot isn't too wide or too thin, it will hold without fail. Now let's go over some "ifs".
> 
> 2. What saw do I use? I cut my slots with an ordinary hack saw, that's a pretty thin blade, carefully, with masking tape over the tip -with a line drawn on it- on both sides of the fork where the cut goes. I make the first few saw motions to get the cut started straight and carefully check it on BOTH sides to make sure all is working as planned. Then I make several more saw motions and check again, both sides and so on until I am done with the slot..then do the other fork. I mount the frame in a rather large vise with a soft cloth over the frame handle to make sure the vise doesn't mar it...and close the vise jaws with common sense tightness..not too tight so as to mar the handle, not too loose so the frame moves or slips. You can play with an ordinary piece of wood to make a few test slots so you can familiarize yourself before you go head long into a frame.
> 
> 3. I use a caliper to mark a dot on the masking tape so both slots are in the same position on the fork tips.
> 
> 4. Now let's address what Bruce said about weakening the tips. I make my fork tips with enough material that a slot won't make it so weak it would break. What is "enough material"? That depends on what the fork tip is made of of course but if the frame is made of decent material, and we hope it is (!) then a slot which leaves 1/8th of material on each side of the slot is the minimum I would permit..best to leave 3/16ths of an inch or so. And of course the fork geometry plays a factor here..note my forks (see the collection photo posted today by "Susi", my wife's gallery. Note my forks are pretty beefy or made of steel in some cases.
> 
> 5. Finishing the slot and widening it to spec is easy but done with care and doesn't take long at all. I use first 80-100 grit paper, an inch wide by four inch long "belt" of it cut from a larger piece of sand paper. I slip this through the slot and work it back and forth on each side of the slot carefully and thoroughly to do two things. First, to obviously sand off saw marks and second to round the corners of the slot so they don't cut into the band. Next, after the slot is widened a bit I fold the paper so it is twice as thick and work it gently into the slot again to widen it just a bit. Next I go to 200 grit and repeat, being careful to not widen the slot a heck of a lot but to smooth the inside and to round the edges a bit more. Next, 300 grit briefly and that's it.
> 
> So how do you know if the slot is too slim or too wide? Remember I suggested to practice slotting on scrap wood. That way you can sand, try a band attachment, if it's too slim, widen it a bit with sand paper until a doubled over band will, with peg, stay in place and barely fit when stretched. After you've made several practice slots THAT WORK, then you are ready for your frame. If you are making a natty, use a branch to practice on. If not, use a piece of scrap from the "U" cut out of the fork void. Yes, beads of sweat will form on your forhead and yes it's going to have to go slowly. I've made many slots and believe me it's 100% concentration and yes, slowly...checking both sides of the slot frequently.
> 
> And make sure you put masking tape on the inside and outside of the fork tip to draw your cut line on both sides...that way you can check to make sure the slot is cutting correctly and not slanted.
> 
> I cut both slots about half way, then put the saw into BOTH OF THEM and saw them the rest of the way, one sort of guides the other and go SLOWLY a few saw motions at a time. You can cut each individually to a point but to get a flat bottom you need to cut both at the same time else it gets a little clumsy trying to move a saw without banging the other fork on the inside of the "U".
> 
> I use a new hack saw blade, old ones want to cut in a slant because one side of the teeth is usually worn more than the other causing a curved cut. Use the thinnest you can get, that way if you goof a little, no matter, the widening process will eat up the goof.
> 
> Top slots with the hole at the bottom are tougher...for OTT frames and I don't use that method. Hats off to the precision guys who can drill and slot OTT top slots without issue!!! I'm not an OTT shooter thank goodness.
> 
> What if you want to use double bands then change to single bands, say if you want to hunt and use righteous ammo and pull lbs, you might want to use double 20mm TBG but for practice only a single band. Fine. Make the slots wide enough to fit the double bands and when it's time to change to singles, just save a few fragments an inch long of broken band and use them as shims, to make the stretched single band equal to the double band in thickness. It's simple. All my frames are slotted for double bands and mostly I use singles with shims.
> 
> I used to NOT use the peg and some slipped, rarely, but slipped..then I started using pegs exclusively, why not? It guarantees the bands won't slip.
> 
> Wham-o's "Sportsman" board cut used slots and so have many other vintage frames I've owned as a kid.
> 
> One post recently had a groove cut in the natural fork tip AND a slot to appease both methods. I tied bands as a kid and also used slots, and same-same a few years ago..finally deciding slots rule.
> 
> What if you mess up?
> You can fill the messed up slot with a slim insert of the same material using epoxy and re slot it..it's not going to show much if at all, depends on how bad the goof was. Have I ever messed up a slot? Yes, twice and patched it and it was invisible in the finished frame.
> 
> Other than slotting, how can I get away from tieing?
> 
> Thumb screw clips or screw driver type or coin width slotted screws with clips are also dandy ways to anchor bands but they look "equipmenty" to me and are one more thing to fuss with so I don't use mechanical clips or screws of any sort...but they work, are fast to change bands and hold well.
> 
> Nathan's (Simple Shot) and Bill Hays' clips (Pocket Predator) work fine...it is your call however. YSYEO has a dandy method of using Chicago screws/bolts...he has a vid on this on youtube...if you can't find it PM you'llshootyoureyeout and he'll give you a link.
> 
> For tubes, Byudsai has a dandy no tie method he invented...PM him for the links..you can also use holes and BBs or bearings or shot of any metal which are the right diameter and golf tee points to plug the free end of the tube so it won't pull out.
> 
> I think the fear of messing up a nice frame is a leading cause for not cutting grooves or slots, many frames are slick smooth and with no anchor at all for that reason...aesthetics and fear. I'm a function nut so aesthetics and I don't get along much yet the slot is absolutely the cleanest and most non interrupting method of attaching a band to a fork.
> 
> Note also that the loose short end of the band coming out of the slot is positioned so it pads the actual band rather than flop flop around and ruin your sight picture. It's held tight against the fork tip by the stretched band over it. See the drawing below please. Click on the images to enlarge them..sorry for the rather low quality on the bottom image...dunno what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck, what is the Tom Thumb used for ?
Click to expand...

 i might be wrong.. but i think its a tube shooter.


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## Larry Bourgeois

truthornothing said:


> Chuck Daehler said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I agree, Bruce Red, with what you said, BUT. Lemme address points above one by one so you and others can make a fair judgement.
> 
> Consider this a tutorial of sorts for first time slotters.
> 
> 1. If you double the band over on itself so there is about 3/4 inch of double over, and insert a peg in the bend of the band, called the "match stick" method (twig from a tree in an extreme situation would work) into the bend or loop, then holding the bend with the thing in it between thumb and forefinger, stretch and insert down into the slot. IF the slot isn't too wide or too thin, it will hold without fail. Now let's go over some "ifs".
> 
> 2. What saw do I use? I cut my slots with an ordinary hack saw, that's a pretty thin blade, carefully, with masking tape over the tip -with a line drawn on it- on both sides of the fork where the cut goes. I make the first few saw motions to get the cut started straight and carefully check it on BOTH sides to make sure all is working as planned. Then I make several more saw motions and check again, both sides and so on until I am done with the slot..then do the other fork. I mount the frame in a rather large vise with a soft cloth over the frame handle to make sure the vise doesn't mar it...and close the vise jaws with common sense tightness..not too tight so as to mar the handle, not too loose so the frame moves or slips. You can play with an ordinary piece of wood to make a few test slots so you can familiarize yourself before you go head long into a frame.
> 
> 3. I use a caliper to mark a dot on the masking tape so both slots are in the same position on the fork tips.
> 
> 4. Now let's address what Bruce said about weakening the tips. I make my fork tips with enough material that a slot won't make it so weak it would break. What is "enough material"? That depends on what the fork tip is made of of course but if the frame is made of decent material, and we hope it is (!) then a slot which leaves 1/8th of material on each side of the slot is the minimum I would permit..best to leave 3/16ths of an inch or so. And of course the fork geometry plays a factor here..note my forks (see the collection photo posted today by "Susi", my wife's gallery. Note my forks are pretty beefy or made of steel in some cases.
> 
> 5. Finishing the slot and widening it to spec is easy but done with care and doesn't take long at all. I use first 80-100 grit paper, an inch wide by four inch long "belt" of it cut from a larger piece of sand paper. I slip this through the slot and work it back and forth on each side of the slot carefully and thoroughly to do two things. First, to obviously sand off saw marks and second to round the corners of the slot so they don't cut into the band. Next, after the slot is widened a bit I fold the paper so it is twice as thick and work it gently into the slot again to widen it just a bit. Next I go to 200 grit and repeat, being careful to not widen the slot a heck of a lot but to smooth the inside and to round the edges a bit more. Next, 300 grit briefly and that's it.
> 
> So how do you know if the slot is too slim or too wide? Remember I suggested to practice slotting on scrap wood. That way you can sand, try a band attachment, if it's too slim, widen it a bit with sand paper until a doubled over band will, with peg, stay in place and barely fit when stretched. After you've made several practice slots THAT WORK, then you are ready for your frame. If you are making a natty, use a branch to practice on. If not, use a piece of scrap from the "U" cut out of the fork void. Yes, beads of sweat will form on your forhead and yes it's going to have to go slowly. I've made many slots and believe me it's 100% concentration and yes, slowly...checking both sides of the slot frequently.
> 
> And make sure you put masking tape on the inside and outside of the fork tip to draw your cut line on both sides...that way you can check to make sure the slot is cutting correctly and not slanted.
> 
> I cut both slots about half way, then put the saw into BOTH OF THEM and saw them the rest of the way, one sort of guides the other and go SLOWLY a few saw motions at a time. You can cut each individually to a point but to get a flat bottom you need to cut both at the same time else it gets a little clumsy trying to move a saw without banging the other fork on the inside of the "U".
> 
> I use a new hack saw blade, old ones want to cut in a slant because one side of the teeth is usually worn more than the other causing a curved cut. Use the thinnest you can get, that way if you goof a little, no matter, the widening process will eat up the goof.
> 
> Top slots with the hole at the bottom are tougher...for OTT frames and I don't use that method. Hats off to the precision guys who can drill and slot OTT top slots without issue!!! I'm not an OTT shooter thank goodness.
> 
> What if you want to use double bands then change to single bands, say if you want to hunt and use righteous ammo and pull lbs, you might want to use double 20mm TBG but for practice only a single band. Fine. Make the slots wide enough to fit the double bands and when it's time to change to singles, just save a few fragments an inch long of broken band and use them as shims, to make the stretched single band equal to the double band in thickness. It's simple. All my frames are slotted for double bands and mostly I use singles with shims.
> 
> I used to NOT use the peg and some slipped, rarely, but slipped..then I started using pegs exclusively, why not? It guarantees the bands won't slip.
> 
> Wham-o's "Sportsman" board cut used slots and so have many other vintage frames I've owned as a kid.
> 
> One post recently had a groove cut in the natural fork tip AND a slot to appease both methods. I tied bands as a kid and also used slots, and same-same a few years ago..finally deciding slots rule.
> 
> What if you mess up?
> You can fill the messed up slot with a slim insert of the same material using epoxy and re slot it..it's not going to show much if at all, depends on how bad the goof was. Have I ever messed up a slot? Yes, twice and patched it and it was invisible in the finished frame.
> 
> Other than slotting, how can I get away from tieing?
> 
> Thumb screw clips or screw driver type or coin width slotted screws with clips are also dandy ways to anchor bands but they look "equipmenty" to me and are one more thing to fuss with so I don't use mechanical clips or screws of any sort...but they work, are fast to change bands and hold well.
> 
> Nathan's (Simple Shot) and Bill Hays' clips (Pocket Predator) work fine...it is your call however. YSYEO has a dandy method of using Chicago screws/bolts...he has a vid on this on youtube...if you can't find it PM you'llshootyoureyeout and he'll give you a link.
> 
> For tubes, Byudsai has a dandy no tie method he invented...PM him for the links..you can also use holes and BBs or bearings or shot of any metal which are the right diameter and golf tee points to plug the free end of the tube so it won't pull out.
> 
> I think the fear of messing up a nice frame is a leading cause for not cutting grooves or slots, many frames are slick smooth and with no anchor at all for that reason...aesthetics and fear. I'm a function nut so aesthetics and I don't get along much yet the slot is absolutely the cleanest and most non interrupting method of attaching a band to a fork.
> 
> Note also that the loose short end of the band coming out of the slot is positioned so it pads the actual band rather than flop flop around and ruin your sight picture. It's held tight against the fork tip by the stretched band over it. See the drawing below please. Click on the images to enlarge them..sorry for the rather low quality on the bottom image...dunno what happened.
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck, what is the Tom Thumb used for ?
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