# not enough stopping power ,,?



## kenny243 (Aug 1, 2015)

hi all

ive been shooting bottlecaps for a while now and hit 8 out of 10 at 15 yards

so today i shoot a pigeon at +- 15 yards , hit it full in the chest , it went straight down and before i was there it went off again !!!

shooting tbg tapered 20mm /30mm (0.78 / 1.18 inch )

active lengt 17 cm (6.6 inch)

draw lengt 75 cm (30 inch )

ammo hex nut m10

would it not have the power to put down a pigeon ? or would it be just me and my shot thats no good :hmm:


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## RUBEN_CO (Sep 1, 2013)

*I have never shot pigeons*

From seeing other people who hunt them chest / crop shots seem to work, but it seems like pigeons can sometimes put on a burst of adrenaline, that may have been it. Dont believe me tho...


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

You have a 454% elongation factor. From one of my way older post I remember the guys saying there is a big difference in 454% and 500% and now that I have taken their suggestions to heart .... they are very, very correct. Get that static length between 5.75 and 6 inches and see what happens. I'm at 7 inches now and a 36+ draw.

You may be able to smack them down because 10M hex nut at 162grs is good ammo, but ........you have a short draw length and low % elongation, which means slow speed. You may have hit him with the flat side too so it just stunned him

You may want to do the soup can test .. if your ammo wont go through a soup can at your intended range, you need to step up the power. There are lots and lots of guys on these slingshot forums that use all kinds of ammo to down Pigeons, the ammo you are using is the favorite of many folks, you may need to bump up the speed though.

wll


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## slingshot shooter (Jan 22, 2013)

I seems it needs more power try 1inch to 3/4 taper double


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

Just a observation . . .

I've started shooting semi-butterfly. The increase in power is fantastic! And my accuracy has increased!


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## Jrricha2 (Aug 11, 2015)

Just curious, for the soup can test, dose it need to penetrate both sides or just one?


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## BeMahoney (Jan 26, 2014)

Why don´t you give 24mm to 16mm tapering a try once? -

I dare to say you´d be surprised!

(plus lighten the pouch if possible..)

Good Luck!

Be


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## New dog old tricks (Jun 13, 2013)

I shoot wood pigeon often, I've shot them with 12mm lead with tbg 190x25x15mm and it will drop those hefty buggers with a head or chest shot. But lately I've shot them with 9.5mm steel with tbg 190x25x20mm. All head and neck shot. And I find it much better.


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## kenny243 (Aug 1, 2015)

thanks for the answers ,

today i shot a duck at +- 10-15 yard

the first i mised , second was a clean kill , clean head shot and it crackt open his scull !

used tbg 160x30x25xmm double ( hex nut m10 )

would 25x20 or 24x16 be faster and more powerfull ? just asking because the 160x30x25 double is a heavy pull !!!


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## DiddleyDee (Dec 3, 2014)

My hunting rig at the moment is single TBG 60mm x 30mm folded over on a Torque. Active length 16cm for a draw of 80cm firing 7gm lead. Dropped a rabbit at 20 meters or so. Didn't even need a head shot. Puts a nice hole in a steel can with a M8 hex nut on my 15 meter range. It's also about my limit for a comfortable/accurate pull.

I "think" the folded rubber lasts longer, seems to anyway. I am of the opinion it's because of only two cut edges rather than four with doubles. My theory only 

I had a chance at a cock Pheasant yesterday but it was sooooo pretty I didn't take the shot. Also illegal I think.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

DiddleyDee said:


> My hunting rig at the moment is single TBG 60mm x 30mm folded over on a Torque. Active length 16cm for a draw of 80cm firing 7gm lead. Dropped a rabbit at 20 meters or so. Didn't even need a head shot. Puts a nice hole in a steel can with a M8 hex nut on my 15 meter range. It's also about my limit for a comfortable/accurate pull.
> 
> I "think" the folded rubber lasts longer, seems to anyway. I am of the opinion it's because of only two cut edges rather than four with doubles. My theory only
> 
> I had a chance at a cock Pheasant yesterday but it was sooooo pretty I didn't take the shot. Also illegal I think.


To my way of thinking, if you can shoot that comfortably I love it. You are right at 500% elongation for your draw, and have a powerful band set up ... you could shoot heavier ammo and still be fine if need be ;- )

Nice,

wll


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## DiddleyDee (Dec 3, 2014)

Yeah it's a good rig. I do use it with .44cal lead but the 7gm/1/4 oz just zips along a little faster.... I do like the zippiness to offset the prey hearing the release and moving before he gets whacked at longer ranges. For real zip .38 cal is fun but lacks a little in the knock down dept.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Maximum power comes from maximum stretch. 450% is good for longevity, but not so much for power. Cut your bands so they bottom out about 1/2 inch past your anchor point and you will see a dramatic increase in power.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

DiddleyDee said:


> Yeah it's a good rig. I do use it with .44cal lead but the 7gm/1/4 oz just zips along a little faster.... I do like the zippiness to offset the prey hearing the release and moving before he gets whacked at longer ranges. For real zip .38 cal is fun but lacks a little in the knock down dept.


Being all my shots are long, (25-40yds, open desert area) I have had a few "MOVE" when I shot and live to see another day. I can understand your need for speed. Where I live a starling is about the only thing I can hunt legally and they will move quickly.

The 3/8" steel pretty much eliminates that problem and the 5/8" marbles are close behind ;- )

BTW: I bet .44 lead out of your set up is pretty effective ;- )

wll


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## DiddleyDee (Dec 3, 2014)

It would be if I could hit something with it 



wll said:


> <snip>
> 
> BTW: I bet .44 lead out of your set up is pretty effective ;- )
> 
> wll


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

I'd say the pigeon which got away was just plain lucky. Even though the bands were not at 95% elongation that still seems like enough to do the job. I used to raise pigeons, not to eat, but to watch them tumble (tumblers, a variety), and racers which were beautiful sleek birds - white bodies, colored wings - used in homing races. They have some pretty good "armor" on parts of their wings called feathers that can absorb some shock without disrupting the heart/lung area as much as it would take to kill. Other parts of the wing are vulnerable to breakage..bones/joints which would render the bird wounded, unable to fly for a final coup de tat. Yes, if your bands were stretched as a poster said a half inch less than max, it would zing the ammo at just about the max for that draw length and static band length yet give a little more life to the bands than if it were stretched hard to the max.

The bird was lucky you didn't hit his head or neck or a bone or joint and lucky you hit the feather armored vest. Not saying he/she didn't die later... If a baseball sized cannon ball hit you in the chest going as fast as slingshot ammo I'm sure there wouldn't be many survivors..at least ambulatory, that's about the scale ratio of a slingshot ammo and a pigeon. One lucky and/or tough pigeon. Also as poster above noted, the ammo may have hit the bird flat instead of on edge...spreading the energy out perhaps double of what an edge shot would have done.


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## SonoftheRepublic (Jul 3, 2011)

Jrricha2 said:


> Just curious, for the soup can test, dose it need to penetrate both sides or just one?


For a hex nut, I'd say penetration of one side or even a good deep dent is plenty of killing power validation.


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## 14585 (Aug 9, 2015)

You may have hit it in the chest plate but it would have died soon after it happens don't worry


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## kenny243 (Aug 1, 2015)

just tryed a band set tbg double 160x30x15 mm for a 79 cm draw

my first impression is that it has alot more speed against the tbg 160x30x25mm ?

is this posible ?

gonna do some soupcan test tomorrow


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## kenny243 (Aug 1, 2015)

another question

i calculated for a 79 cm draw i have a length from 79:5= 6.2inch

so lets say a good 6 inch is what i need

but i need some fo tying , how much do you ad for tying ?

how do you lads do this ?


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Webfoot said:


> Maximum power comes from maximum stretch. 450% is good for longevity, but not so much for power. Cut your bands so they bottom out about 1/2 inch past your anchor point and you will see a dramatic increase in power.


For all you folks that shoot 450% and maybe a little more elongation ...... pay attention to what Henry just said. He doesn't need me to speak for him for sure, but since I increased my elongation factor to about 520%... my speeds went up dramatically, and I mean dramatically !

If I would have done what I'm doing now, I would have saved myself hours and hours of testing all the different configurations I had. No matter what elastic you choose .... stretch it to the max if you are a hunter, the difference in speed will surprise you !

wll


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## DiddleyDee (Dec 3, 2014)

Another tip that works for me is to flip the frame towards the target as if you had a pea on the end and were flicking it at the target. Do this prior to release so you actually pull the pouch out of the fingers rather than just release it. This adds some extra stretch/power just as you release and in my case it increases accuracy. Takes a while to master mind.


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## Mr-W (Jun 17, 2015)

I shoot wood pigeon almost daily mate and I wouldn't trust single tbg on an adult unless it was a clean head shot.

My hunting setup is looped 1745 and .38cal lead - that will take them every time.

Also dont forget pigeons have the "headless chicken" nerve response. So unless you break vital bones or kill the brain it will fly for 20m then drop out of the sky dead. So if it fly's go and look for it, 50/50 chance I'll find it dead on the ground around the corner.

Mr-S


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## Viper010 (Apr 21, 2012)

kenny243 said:


> thanks for the answers ,
> 
> today i shot a duck at +- 10-15 yard
> the first i mised , second was a clean kill , clean head shot and it crackt open his scull !
> ...


A 30-20 taper would pull a little lighter, probably shoot a little faster too, but at the expense of band life.


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## Jrricha2 (Aug 11, 2015)

I just came back from a short hunt, I had success with tbg singles at 3/4"-1/2"x7.2" active length shooting with a 36" draw. My 3/8 steel almost had a pass through on a pigeon


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## Viper010 (Apr 21, 2012)

kenny243 said:


> just tryed a band set tbg double 160x30x15 mm for a 79 cm draw
> 
> my first impression is that it has alot more speed against the tbg 160x30x25mm ?
> is this posible ?
> gonna do some soupcan test tomorrow


Quite right, but it will only last half as many shots, at the most.


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Viper010 said:


> Quite right, but it will only last half as many shots, at the most.


For me, if it is not sending ammo at the speeds I want, the setup is thrown in the trash ... if I get 150-250 shots that's OK, but I get more ..... for me, hunting speed is all I care about, the tubes cost maybe 3 bucks at the most per set up and if they last 6-8 outdoor hunting and/or stump shooting secession's ... perfect ! (they usually last twice that for me.)

wll


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## Jrricha2 (Aug 11, 2015)

Im with will, speed is what's important to me


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## Skylarhagler (Jan 23, 2013)

I'm about to order a Torque from simpleshot for my first non walmart slingshot and this thread has me debating on band/tube setup now. I can't decide between DiddleyDee's setup with the folded TBG or looped 1745 tubes. Any input for a newbie? Going to be shooting 3/8" steel or 1/2"-9/16" marbles mainly at birds, squirrels, and rabbits.


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## Mr-W (Jun 17, 2015)

I have two torques. And use it extensively for hunting. Looped 1745 and 9.5mm lead mate - thats a setup I promise you will stop your game in its tracks

Mr-S


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## Mr-W (Jun 17, 2015)

I take woodys almost daily mate and around here they grow up to 1kg. This setup blows holes through them

Mr-S


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## kenny243 (Aug 1, 2015)

What are woodys ?


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## Mr-W (Jun 17, 2015)

Wood pigeons

Mr-S


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## Skylarhagler (Jan 23, 2013)

Mr-W said:


> I have two torques. And use it extensively for hunting. Looped 1745 and 9.5mm lead mate - thats a setup I promise you will stop your game in its tracks
> 
> Mr-S


Thanks, I'm used to shooting tubes with my cheapo ss so thats probably where I'll start


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## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

"ive been shooting bottlecaps for a while now and hit 8 out of 10 at 15 yards"
If you can shoot bottle caps at that range with that consistency it's time for you to do some badges. That's fantastic shooting. You ought to enter some tournaments. I've not heard of many who can do that.


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## kenny243 (Aug 1, 2015)

tournaments ? here in Belgium ?

i would no know where to look , dont think they have tournaments here in Belgium


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## DiddleyDee (Dec 3, 2014)

That is one of the many advantages of the Torque, shoots tubes or bands equally well plus it shrugs off fork hits like Mynas shrug off 3/8 steel.

For me, I prefer the lighter pull of TBG for the same speed. Band life is a serious issue though, !745 is cheap and lasts a long time, quieter too..

Also for me, the top corner of the fork lines up the target dead on at 20 meters with TBG and 1/4oz lead which is around the range I hunt. With 1745, again for me, I need to aim a little higher which means the target is obscured by the fork or drop the anchor point which affects my accuracy.

With theses thoughts in mind try both and see what works best for you



Skylarhagler said:


> I'm about to order a Torque from simpleshot for my first non walmart slingshot and this thread has me debating on band/tube setup now. I can't decide between DiddleyDee's setup with the folded TBG or looped 1745 tubes. Any input for a newbie? Going to be shooting 3/8" steel or 1/2"-9/16" marbles mainly at birds, squirrels, and rabbits.


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## Mr-W (Jun 17, 2015)

For me... You buy a torque because its a tube shooter. You can make up two bands, throw one in the bag and one on the fork.

If one breaks - got a spare and in 3 secs your back in the game again. If your shooting flats there are better frames - scout springs to mind. But that's just my thoughts

Mr-S


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## wll (Oct 4, 2014)

Mr-W said:


> I have two torques. And use it extensively for hunting. Looped 1745 and 9.5mm lead mate - thats a setup I promise you will stop your game in its tracks
> 
> Mr-S


I have been shooting a lot of 1842, 1745 and 3/16 x,047 wall in looped configurations and can say those tubes send ammo quickly, especially with a 500% elongation factor. I'm shooting mostly 3/8" steel, 5/8" marbles and some 1/2 steel and these tubes send ammo better than any single tubes I have tested, and I have tested a whole bunch. The only downside is looped tubes are not as clean as singles for sure.

wll


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