# Do you still shoot brace slingshots?



## TRUGREEN (Dec 19, 2009)

I have three slingshots that are non brace that I shoot with which are two bunny busters and a cheif aj.I still love shooting with my Trumark FS-1 slingshot. I was just wondering if anyone on the board shoots both? If you do what non braced and braced slingshots you shoot with.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

I shoot both, I still like my WRP: it's a dandy. The only bummer is it's a bit limited on capacity of powerful bands, but this limitation is offset by its ability to collapse. I wish it were a hair more ferstout in this regard. but it's a keeper for sure. I notice slingshot people are similar to the black powder crowd in this regard: purists shoot flintlock guns/nonbraced slingshots only. I like to shoot 'em all, I guess!


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

I shoot both. My favorite non-braced is the Flatband Ergo, and my Braced is the Saunders Pro.


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## TruckeeLocal (Dec 23, 2009)

Well I guess this topic is a reaction to my comment. In the history of slingshot evolution I see tubular bands and wrist braces as devolution. A major step in the wrong direction even if it was commercial success. A step in the wrong direction that has fooled the world for 50+ years. In a post by Tex he talks about how tubular bands took away the power of the slingshot and it wasn't a viable hunting weapon anymore. So you put those slow any heavy pull bands on a slingshot that has forks that rise to high above your hand you've just created a need for a wrist brace. A need created buy poor slingshot design. Maybe that's what the world needed back then (and now), a big bulky sling that looks powerful. Now we live in a world where you can have a pocket sized sling that shoots cannon balls and all it only takes is 3 fingers to hold (thumb and fore finger on the forks and middle finger around handle). A better analogy than the muzzleloader is the comparison of tube vs. solidstate guitar amps. The original guitar amps used tubes (ancient technology) in the 80's there was huge movement towards solid state (commercial success) and now 30 years later we are back to tubes. It's not about being a purist its about realizing that a slingshot never needed a wrist brace in the first place.

Wow I cant wait to see the comments after this post.


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

TruckeeLocal, I think you are taking a very narrow view of the subject. Some slingshot NEED wrist braces, specifically extended fork slingshots. The Saunders flat band models are top grade slingshots, and use wrist braces because you could not reasonably use them without the brace. Also, all of the tournament winners use braced slingshots because they are more accurate and have less room for error. Bill Herriman's Star models are examples.


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

I shoot every type Slingshot but my regulars are my Ergo and lately a Vortex Starship that I re-worked. I've suffered from my arm shaking due to a compressed nerve that can take upwards of 3-4 years to properly heal. So that's why the Wrist Brace.I do miss my Ergo though!







Flatband


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

Well then here is my comment: Small diameter tubes are great fun to shoot and are also game getters. Trumark RR-T tapered tubes are surely not devolution. RR-Ts' shoot extremely well and are very available in stores for people to buy. Tubes can also be shot for thousands of rounds which is also a plus to a kid who needs his bands to last.
Many of us are not interested in extreme performance and short band life. We just want a good slingshot to hold and rubber bands attached that we can learn to hit what we aim at and last.
Truckie, you know that Dankung tubes are more than perfect for a great slingshot. You also know that a slice of 1/16" Linatex will also last a long time and give performance that is great for a slingshot. You also know that Trumark RR-T tubes perform very well on anyones slingshot, even rigged over the top like a flat-band.
What makes a person better because he shoots a slingshot at 220 fps when the guy beside him shoots one at 160fps when both are hitting what they aim at and know the performance level of their slingshots?
I don't care about the molecular structure of the rubber I shoot, nor do I care about spending hours inside the house wasting my time trying to get 2fps faster than my buddy. I just want to enjoy shooting a slingshot and the company of others who shoot them.
Don't get the wrong idea that I'm angry at you or that I disagree with what the core of what you are saying is all about. I too would like to shoot a slingshot at 1000fps and have bands that last for 5000 rounds. For that, we need the people who care about the molecular structure of rubber and are willing to spend countless hours doing lab work.
Lets not discourage new shooters with our confusing debates about rubber. I'll admit that all I know is what I have shot myself; and that is to say, that I like the kid approach to slingshot fun and rubber-bands. I am pretty much a dummy when it comes to stuff about rubber on paper...BUT let me get it on my slingshot and I can tell you in a month if it is any good or not and that ends all debate for me. There are good tubes and junk tubes...good bands and junk bands.
Guys like me need the extremists who experiment to get better shooting results, but if we are happy shooting a flintlock and hit what we aim at, I don't see that as devolution.









Oh by the way, If it wasn't for a wrist braced slingshot I never would have been able to get back into slingshots after my injury to my left hand.


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## TruckeeLocal (Dec 23, 2009)

I agree about the extended forks, I mentioned that in another post and there are people that need braces like you Smitty to rehab your wrist. What I'm simply trying to point out is that everybody seems so stuck on the wrist brace and there is no real disadvantage for not having one. I made the comment about the tubes because they appeared along with the wrist brace and the heavy pull helped make the wrist brace a necessity. My comment also doesn't refer to dankung tubes, I was referring to the history of slingshot design. I want people to realize that there is more(actually less if you think about it) to slingshots than the ones they have grown up with and if they are going to spend money give it to people like Fish or Flatband or Tex or Tim at Dankung (or other people that deserve the money) and maybe even make their own. Nothing available from the big manufactures even compares to the slings available from these guys. None of my comments refer to tournament shooting either because 99.9% of shooters shoot for fun and will never compete, but don't be surprised when a instinctive Chinese shooter comes over here and schools everyone and they probably wont use a wrist brace. Did Rufus Hussey use a wrist brace?

I'm happy that everyone doesn't agree, this is more interesting than a lot of other topics.


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

I agree about being more interesting! I like to have friendly debates too.
 Now I get what you are saying too. It aggravates me that American companies aren't making at least one serious slingshot with serious bands or tubes for tournaments and another serious shooter for hunting. I see most of the factory made shooters as toys for kids, however I may not be aware of the liability issues involved. But, still they could be sold just like a pistol or rifle, if that's the case, where only adults could buy them.
We are lucky to have our custom makers out there to supply us with serious slingshots in addition to the ones we make ourselves.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

Well I don't have any handicaps/injuries, etc., and I still like my WRP as well as the ergo. I don't care what you say it is an intelligent, excellent design that is user friendly and accurate. It is just a different style of shooter.


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## TruckeeLocal (Dec 23, 2009)

Hi Mr Joel, my comments were not aimed at users of extended fork slingshots. This is the one design that needs the brace and that was the first thing I said but that was under a different topic. This whole thing came about when I was talking to a few members from NY and they both commented about not being able to use wrist braces and my comment was that was good thing. Now they are buying better designed and more powerful slings because of that. So to sum up everything said before, the majority of slingshot shooters (I don't care what type,brand,etc..) could shoot without a wrist brace if your lower the bands close enough to you fingers/hand. This being said, the wrist brace is a result of a slingshot design that has the forks rise too high creating excessive torque(bad design). Tubes that were hard to draw also had a factor in this as well. So now it's 50+ years later and people still use a slingshot that was a bad design then and its still a bad design now.


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## mr.joel (Dec 21, 2009)

truckee, do you have a low opinion of the the saunders Hawk(a pistol grip) and Falcon 2?


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## alru19 (Jan 7, 2010)

Truckee, I would not agree with your point about wrist braced slingshots and tubes as being devolution in the history of slingshots. They were simply a necessary step in the progression to what we have today. You must look carefully at the transition to tubes commercially, and the beginning of the transformation back (Saunders and custom makers) to understand the real picture. You see, the early flat bands- the ones displaced by the introduction of the wristrocket were gum rubber- which you can still get form Flataband and Tom at Bunnybuster. These .0625" bands were not all that great, topping out around 240 fps with a 3/8" steel ball on a normal draw and non-extended fork. But their durability is not great either; comparable, or maybe slightly better than thin latex used today. But the tubes that replaced them were indeed considerably more durable. Beyond that, the tubes were made of latex- an evolution in the sport, not devolution. These tubes, the first ones of course were not tapered, still gave high speeds and lasted much longer- an improvement to the commercial aspect of the product. (It may be argued that a less durable band would be preferred by companies because it would require more purchases of replacements, but they probably felt overall that more enjoyment and thus more sales of slingshots would result from the longer band life.) This is related to your argument about the high fork as being another setback. I, like many, really got into slingshots with my first wrist-braced model, a Saunders Folding Falcon. The wrist brace allows for youngsters to develop proper form, without fear of hitting their fingers, which would be more probable on a non-wrist-braced model with lower forks. Not to mention the wrist strength needed to shoot it (even with light bands). This was another calculated commercial plot to reduce liability I presume. 
But I would like also to get more down and dirty about performance. I honestly see no speed difference between Trumark RRTs and tapered latex flat bands. Yes, it did take a while to produce these RRTs, and the majority of tubes sold in the last 60 years have been inferior to these. Though I haven't tested them thoroughly, I know that a Trumark RR1 has enough power to penetrate the skin of a squirrel with a lead ball at 20 yards, and kill it instantly. As for the RRTs (which I know you espouse), if they are shortened and fitted with a lighter pouch, can get up to 290 fps with 3/8" steel and a normal draw, and just over 300 fps with 5/16" steel. I am also not convinced with the notion of flat bands superiority over tubes in colder weather. I do believe that most commercial slingshots are sold with tubes that are too long for most shooters, and should be shortened to optimize speed. But the durability superiority of tubes should not be overlooked, and is important to the recreational shooter.
As for the original question in the thread, yes I do still shoot wrist-braced slingshots, mainly a Crosman Cyclone and a Saunders SR-7. I must admit that I more commonly shoot my Bunnybuster Pocket Shooter, Flatband Ergo, or some of my own naturals, equipped with you guessed it; .030 latex tapered flat bands. I must say that they go draw smoother than tubes, and I feel they are more accurate.


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## alru19 (Jan 7, 2010)

I have yet to try linatex though.


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## p4v_singh (Dec 21, 2009)

i used to shoot braced but now i have taken the brace of i like it better like this not as big and overall its better


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

Thought I would mention to Alru, I shoot Linatex 1/16 inch thick x 5/8 inch at fork and 1/2 inch at pouch and I think they are a very good rubber to shoot with.
I shoot RR-T tubes a lot also and I always measure each new set to my draw length before Installation and shorten them where they won't stretch anymore about three inches past my anchor point. I too think they shoot amazingly well and very fast. I would like to see a chronograph test with the RR-T set up the way I shoot it with a 28 inch draw.
Rigged to shoot over the top, RR-T's shoot so well that I honestly didn't see the point of switching to flat-bands only a year ago when I started shooting again. Flatband and Tex helped me a lot to get my stuff rigged right and once I did, I was happy with my target groups and very content with the performance of a tuned set of RR-Ts.
The only problem I have noticed is the RR-T taper will vary in diameter at the pouch from one set to another and it feels like you have to get used to every new set you put on when finding the bulls-eye.


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## Chuff (Dec 25, 2009)

Hi all,
I still own and shoot (amongst others obv!)a wristbraced. A Barnett black widdow. Nostalgic reasons, had one as a kid. Still pretty accurate with it too!
I didn`t think of it before but the design flaws are obvious when pointed out, thus leading to an un-needed and heavy arm brace.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

OK, here my two cents worth on wrist braces. First, yes I still shoot some wrist braced slingshots as well as some non-wrist braced slingshots. The ones that I shoot are the Saunders Falcon 2 (flat band model), the Saunders Wrist Rocket Pro and a few of my own design. Before I shot the Falcon 2, I changed the angle of the wrist brace, put a cushion pad on the wrist brace pad and add a high density foam grip to the handle (I had to cut down the handle base some to get the grip on). Most of the commercial wrist braced slingshots have several main problems. 1) One size just does not fit all. 2) The wrist brace is too short. 3) Hand through the wrist braced styles are clumsy (I hate this style). 4) The wrist brace pad is too small, hard and don’t lay flat against your arm. When I am shooting a non wrist braced style I like the Saunders flat band Hawk and a few of my own design. I like flat bands over tubes. I might not even be a shooter if I had to shoot tubes. Tex


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## Sarge (Dec 18, 2009)

I don't shoot any wrist braced slingshots. I had a couple, a Saunders WRP and a Barnett pro. I traded both of them. When I was a teenager I carried a wham-o hunting slingshot on my trapline and it worked very well for that. One day while reading Fur Fish & Game I saw an add for a wrist rocket slingshot, so I ordered one and carried it a couple of days and went back to my wham-o. I just didn't like it and it didn't perform as well. I guess from that experience 47 years ago I just don't care for them.


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## TruckeeLocal (Dec 23, 2009)

Well first of all my comments weren't about the merits of tubes. Heavy pull tubes were just a factor in the wrist brace design. I referred to the wrist brace design as devolution because it became the norm and many slingshots were based on this design. It sent all the manufacturers down the wrong road when they could have making better slingshots. Yes these slings were a commercial success, but I'm not talking about that.

Everything I have said is based on slingshot design and nothing else. Since everybody keeps commenting about tubes, that tells me that people are missing the point of what I've said.

I want people to think! I'm hoping people will read these posts and think about what a slingshot really is. It's sad to see, that with the wealth of information available on this forum and other forums, that many people haven't learned a thing.


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## pelleteer (Dec 19, 2009)

For braced catties, I shoot a Trumark WS-1 and an FSXFO. I can also pop the brace off the FSXFO for non-braced shooting. For non-braced I shoot a Trumark S9, a Crosman Cyclone, 3 naturals I've made, and soon a Saunders Hawk that's in the mail as we speak. I like both types. I _do_ find braced models better for very strong rubber like Trumark's RR2, since I'm not built like Joerg and I get a lot more shake (and get a lot more tired) shooting the heavy bands without a brace. If I had to go with one type, I'd go non-braced, just because they're more compact, I don't shoot heavy bands very often, and I like their appearance better.


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

Oh great man on top of the mountain...please Truckie...teach us poor ignorant slingshot designers the secret of how to keep people from wanting and enjoying the designs you don't like. Come on man...they are just slingshots. I like to shoot slingshots period. From all over the world there are different designs and the rubber tubes or bands that they use will effect the final design. It ain't that big of a deal to grab a fork and rubber and go shoot some rocks at some cans. I like to tell my wife that I'm gonna go play with my slingshots. That is what this is about. Can't we just play well together and just have fun with each other and share ideas without someone saying we are all ignorant?


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## statikpunk (Dec 24, 2009)

well I think its about time i threw my two bits into this three ring circus of slingshoterey









And at the risk of getting tared and feathered, Im gonna play a little bit of devils advocate for truckee. there are many slingshots that require a wrist brace, but i agree with truckee on one point. I also think that a large selection of slinghsots especially the ones that were made throughout the late 80's 90's and many that continue on through today have their wrist braces added because they marketed to kids better than a non-braced model. without much thought to design. Lets face it when your a kid "coolness" is drastically more important than functionality. 
that being said i am a traditional slingshot fan. I like a good OTT any day...I compare it to the archery movement back inthe 50's and 60's a recurve was the most modern design you could get and with slingshots a good forked stick was about as advanced as design got. then the compound bow was made and it went like gangbusters and now after all that many people are turning back to traditional archery with more modern technology. and the same goes for slingshots. now that we have more advanced latex bands, and materials, many shooters are going back to the more traditional designs, and more traditional ways of shooting. its good to have both everybody likes different things. just like smitty said, its all about having fun right??









PS oh and one more thing, someone mentioned slinghshot companies using latex tubes because of their durability and efficiency. that i disagree with, I am sure that most companies use tubes because of its availability. Millions of miles of the stuff are made for hospitals every day. where as other power band material is harder and more expensive to get. latex tubing is a good power band material for many reasons but dont let the big companies tell you that they use it because its the best material out there. its the cheapest and most readily available material. even many of the commercially made flat band slingshots are just repurposed medical supplies. of course one of my favorite banding materials is just repurposed exercise equipment


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## TruckeeLocal (Dec 23, 2009)

The only reason I have commented more that once was because it was obvious people took what I said the wrong way and I was simply replying to there comments. I'm not trying to pass judgment on anyone and it was not my intention to offend anyone either.

I was hoping to interject something that would make people think and it worked.

Smitty your last comment was something I wouldn't have expected from you.


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## smitty (Dec 17, 2009)

I am just arguing with a friend Truckie. I am not trying to hurt anyone. I argue with my wife too. I just want to debate sometimes with some feeling, it is way more interesting! You are very knowledgeable about this sport, so I want to argue with you until I can see what you are talking about. No hard feelings.


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## alru19 (Jan 7, 2010)

Truckee, I think you are off base. You say, "Yes these slings (wrist-braced models) were a commercial success, but I'm not talking about that." This is a flawed arguement. It is like complaining that you can't buy a 400 mph street legal car from an oem manufacturer. But car companies don't care only about going fast, and neither do slingshot companies. Why fault them for trying to make money, just like any other company. Every industry works to sell to the masses, not the redicals like us. Durability and safety are at the forefront of design.

You also stated, "Everything I have said is based on slingshot design and nothing else. Since everybody keeps commenting about tubes, that tells me that people are missing the point of what I've said." Missing the point? Earlier in the thread you said "In the history of slingshot evolution I see tubular bands and wrist braces as devolution. " This seems pretty clear that you consider tubes to be devolution. Either that or you meant that tubes in association with wrst-braced slingshots are a devolution. Either way, I don't agree. The Boler for instance- arguably the most influential Ergo slingshot ever, came with tubes before any wrsit brace slingshots were around. You don't think that at the time, tubes were superior to flats? So this couldn't be a devolution.


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## TruckeeLocal (Dec 23, 2009)

Its working, people are thinking and that's great.

Keep up the good work.


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## Melchior (Dec 27, 2009)

Ok, my 2 cents on this:

There was a time - 40ies to 70ies when the slingshot market was full of small garage companies selling everything from really good stuff to downright crap. Have a look at some old advertisements and you'll see what I mean. These small hand makers had the disadvantage of labour-intensive production, but they had one huge advantage: They could as well make labour-intensive work that is hard to make with a machine. Tying a flatbands with string is such an example. There is, to this day, nobody who invented a reliable machine for doing this.

On came big manufacturers with wire bending machines, infection molded grips etc. and put the small garage guys out of business. The big manufacturer has the advatage that he can give you braces, contoured handles with finger moulds, folding mechanisms, padded braces etc. for a much lower price than a small garage guy can..but they have a lot of trouble tying bands to the pouch! And this is the reason why tubes started to dominate the market. Because it is possible to attach tubes with a machine, by using "chinese handcuff" method or a clip that sits in the tube.
It took a few years and the flatbands were more or less forgotten. Some manufactuers such as Trumark improved the tubular rubber (dipped latex, tapering etc.) to a point where it can actually compete with flat bands. But Truckee is right, there was an overall decline in slingshot quality..with a lot of extruded non-tapered tubes with heavy pouches on the market. Slingshot sport itself also started to fade into obscurity.

THe last 10 years brought us, in my opinion, the start of a great revival...first, the internet allows people to connect, get informed about slingshots and what important on them. Second, it allows small custom makers to sell their (labour-intensive) products again. They will never cover much of the market, but are a viable alternative for the discerning shooter.

However, this decline and rise has nothing to do with the inherent designs of brace vs. non braced slingshots! The production of finger supported models vs. wire-bent brace slingshots was, and is, just a by-factor of what the garage guy / industry / custom maker is good in producing.

Yes, I agree that the Western Industry completely forgot about small finger supported pocket slingshots, which always have a place in the market (and in my pocket). But a wristbraced slingshot shoots just as straight! A brace helps you to find the same holding position every time, takes strain from your wrist and is even a security feature, because it can "lock" the slingshot to the hand. On the other hand, it prevents you from flipping the hand through (which I, and many other shooters, do to improve accuracy) and it must fit to yoour hand! Nothing worse than a brace that doesn't fit to your indivudual ergonomics. But a non-braced slingshot is inherently neither more or less accurat than its braced cousin. And like it or not, but a very heavy slingshot with stabilizers, low pull target bands, sights and ultra-long writbrace is, for 95% of all shooters, a lot easier to shoot accurately than a small pocket slingshot...on the other hand, when you are out the woods, nobody cares what 5 pound slingshot sits in your drawer


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## p4v_singh (Dec 21, 2009)

you all the forgot the emotion!!!


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## ZDP-189 (Mar 14, 2010)

Sorry for bumping a controversial topic, but it's better than starting a new thread.

I am working on a catapult at the moment to compete in a friendly match. I can't decide whether I want to use a brace or not. I really know fairly little of the current state-of-the-art in the slingshot world, which is fun, because it allows me to bring fresh ideas and designs using concepts from outside the industry.

I've shot rifle and pistol and it seems that a wrist brace does reduce movement. Some people like myself are deliberate aimers and I think that approach suits bracing, whereas other people are instinctive shooters and probably need more freedom of movement. So maybe the best slingshot design depends on the individual person and the application (purpose, range, conditions, etc.) One thing I am sure of; a slingshot (and user) needs to be though of as a system, rather than a collection of parts.

I am also surprised to read that some jurisdictions wrist braces are disallowed.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

I shoot all kinds of slingshots, both instinctive and by sight. For sight style shooting this is my target slingshot and is the most accurate slingshot that I have shot to date. Now that has been said, it is kind of heavy because of a stabilizer that is on it. It will shoot very well without a stabilizer though. Also the modified falcon shown in the galley under commercial slingshots also shoots very well. -- Tex


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## NightKnight (Dec 16, 2009)

I still love shooting braced. I have had Flatband make me 3 sets of 2-1/4" x 1-1/2" x 9" x .030" Tapered Latex bands, and I could NEVER shoot them without a brace.


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## wd40 (Jul 19, 2010)

"Yes, I agree that the Western Industry completely forgot about small finger supported pocket slingshots, which always have a place in the market (and in my pocket).

But a wristbraced slingshot shoots just as straight! A brace helps you to find the same holding position every time, takes strain from your wrist and is even a security feature, because it can "lock" the slingshot to the hand.

On the other hand, it prevents you from flipping the hand through (which I, and many other shooters, do to improve accuracy) and it must fit to yoour hand! Nothing worse than a brace that doesn't fit to your indivudual ergonomics.

But a non-braced slingshot is inherently neither more or less accurat than its braced cousin. And like it or not, but a very heavy slingshot with stabilizers, low pull target bands, sights and ultra-long writbrace is, for 95% of all shooters, a lot easier to shoot accurately than a small pocket slingshot."

I agree with what Melchoir said.


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

The western industry did not forget the small finger braced slingshots, they just got sued out of selling them. -- Tex-Shooter


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## haertig (Jul 30, 2010)

I exclusively shoot my non-braced slingshots now (an A+ PS2 and a Dankung Jungle Hunter II). I am a better shot with them. My wife still prefers to shoot my older wrist braced Marksman 3040. I recently bought a Trumark FS1 to throw in my bag in case somebody needs a loaner slingshot and prefers the braced style. I haven't shot the FS1 yet, but it was really inexpensive so I bought it on a whim to have "just in case".


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## Flatband (Dec 18, 2009)

I LOVE Wrist Braced Slingshots (Starships). I now mainly shoot my own but in the past have had success with the Saunders Falcon 2 and 300,the Vortex (modified) anD a lot of others. Adjustments will have to be made on most commercial braced jobs but usually it's just a minor thing or two. I'm currently making another on for myself and also have a design drawn up using the Tex Shooter "Prongs forward" style. I revisited that style after using a new (old) style band attachment-inside the prong mount. Love it! Flatband


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## NaturalFork (Jan 21, 2010)

I have been shooting the good ole trumark a lot recently. I just love to shoot and they require no maintenance, change the tubes once a month instead of once every couple days. I also really like the Saunders falcon 2, I recently got a Saunders Wrist Rocket Pro and it is the smoothest shooting slingshot I own, and most powerful.


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

Calling All Wrist-Braced Shooters!

Reviving this 9 year old thread to demonstrate how things have changed sunce 2010 and also to see if there is anyone else enjoying wrist-braced slingshots. Bill Hayes is selling Predator Smart Clips to attach flat bands or tubes to a wire-frame slingshot. Bill explains that the old metal frame singshots are fine, it is the tubes and pouches that make them inaccurate. In fact, he says that "you may already own one of the most accurate slingshots ever made."

As much as I enjoy my ergos, I am more accurate with a Trumark WS1 with pseudo tapered 1842s and 3/8 steel shot. I also have a Trumark FSX and a Marksman 3040 that I have plans to upgrade with modern tubes and pouches. Perry at A+ Slingshots made me a custom wrist-braced slingshot based on his kitfox design and Wolf claw arm brace from his Timber Wolf series. This is a fantastic shooter.

Jump in with your perspective on classic wrist-braced slingshots and any variations.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Thanks for bringing this up Blue Raja!

After about 20 prototypes, some pretty complex.... we broke it all down and went with the perfect K.I.S.S. solution!

What's amazing, at least to me, is how much time it took me to circle all the way back around and find this to be the right way.

I was going to make a video showing how it all works, and how extremely easy it is to do and so forth, before officially announcing the introduction.... But the weather's been cold today and I have 3 basketball games to go to today as well...

Anyway, here's the basic idea:


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## Grandpa Grumpy (Apr 21, 2013)

Thanks Bill! I am glad to see these. I shoot singles, loops, pseudo tapers and flat bands on my Daisy F-16. No wrist brace but a properly adjusted lanyard works as good. These gadgets should make things easier.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes a well fitted lanyard is pretty good... but in my opinion, a wrist brace slingshot just can't be beat for ultimate stability... unless you're talking sling-rifles of course!

I've probably modified close to 200 wrist braced slingshots for kids over the years... Trumarks are my favorites to mod, followed by Daisy and then Barnett.

The steel forks are really nice and easy to modify the angle on, plus the 1/4" thick rod makes them really easy to weld to, or to design attachments for.

The Predator Smart Clamps can accommodate flats, looped tubes, psuedo taper tubes, single tubes, gum rubber, and good old plain rubber bands... Over the top, Through the forks or any combination you can imagine.... POI elevation is easily taken care of by simply bending the forks slightly, narrower or wider, and with the aiming groove, you have much greater accuracy potential, as good as pretty much anything out there.... and all on a slingshot you can pick up from Walmart for less than $10!

You can find them at: http://www.pocketpredator.com/more.html


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

Trumarks are my favorite wire frame slingshots. They were manufactured in Boulder, CO right up until the end. The wide forks are very forgiving. The original WS-1 is virtually indestructible. My first slingshot was a FS-1 almost 50 years ago.


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## Projectile Pilot (Jan 11, 2019)

I recently got back into slingshots because of a Barnett Cobra I grabbed for myself while Christmas shopping and it only took a few days and a change to Marksman tapered bands before I could hit an empty tin of airgun pellets from 8-9 yards 7 times in a row. So I bought a Torque soon after some reading, shot a couple decent groups right away and quickly realized they were basically beginner's luck. But I can hit a small Play-Doh lid from about 6-7 yards now a little over 60% of the time, better on a good day.

The accuracy of a braced sling speaks to me, but the reward of being accurate without the brace calls louder. But there's something about a braced shooter that I know I'll never stop shooting them. Maybe it's the "cool" factor


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## Pebble Shooter (Mar 29, 2014)

Interesting topic. A Barnett slingshot with a wrist brace and tubes (like in the link below) is what I used a long time ago before discovering flat band slingshots in YouTube videos.

https://www.barnettcrossbows.com/browse/slingshots/view-all-slingshots/black-widow

What I discovered at the time was that the draw weight of the Barnett tubes was somewhat excessive in view of the relatively low power output of the recommended 9 mm (.38 cal) steel ammo, and that a well calibrated set of flat bands on a slingshot without a wrist brace definitely produces far more power with a far lower draw weight, as opposed to the Barnett tubes of the time. The only drawback of flat bands is their shorter life span, although this does depend on a number of factors. I would not go back to tubes as a result.

Thus, a wrist brace is not absolutely essential to have a slingshot with a healthy power level, but a wrist-braced slingshot, in conjunction with a strong set of tapered flat bands (40-50%) to shoot 20 mm (.78 inch) steel ammo relatively effortlessly, could be very interesting. Perforating 15 mm thick particle board with gaping holes is possible with such a setup.

Unfortunately, many European countries including Switzerland have banned wrist-braced slingshots, following numerous demonstrations where these were used against the police and subsequent serious injuries - here a German article from 1986 (right-click on your mouse on the text & select translate into English...not great, but understandable):

http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-13518805.html

A key argument in favor of the wrist brace is the increased accuracy potential, given the absence of draw weight induced torsion in the wrist of the slingshot holding hand - hence the trend towards low fork frame designs of modern slingshots without wrist braces to counter this problem.


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Yes that's true, the wrist braced slingshots are outlawed in many places... but there are non-wristbraced versions of practically every wrist braced slingshot as well... And in fact the non-wristbraced versions, sometimes are better made and a _little_ more ergonomic... like the Daisy F16 compared to the B52.

Anyway, the non-wristbraced rod slingshot can easily be modified, with the most basic of tools, to be far more ergonomic. Lowering the forks, narrowing, widening... fixing the angle so that it's in line with the sight picture... all of that is easily done on a rod frame slingshot.

Now don't get me wrong!

I still DO prefer the slingshots I make myself...

But if you really want a slingshot for strict utility, or versatility, for easy to achieve accuracy, or if you NEED something reliable and useful for your "Go Bag", or if simply letting a beginner use one of your slingshots.... then a rod frame wrist braced slingshot using these "Smart Clamps" really is the way to go!


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

In archery, gripping the bow too tightly results in torque, which makes for inaccurate shooting. When I shoot for accuracy in the basement, a Trumark WS-1, with a modified handle (built up with wood and leather) and 1842 psuedo tapered tubes is perfect for 3/8 shot. The wrist brace enables me to have a relaxed grip on the handle.

If you want to carry a WS-1 in your pocket - just use a bigger pocket - I use a canvas shoulder bag for outdoor carry.

After a lot of practice, I can achieve similar accuracy w/ Bill's Hathcock Target Sniper. This is not a slingshot for a child or a beginner.

Classic wire framed slingshots are cheap, bullet proof, and available at Wally World and big box sporting goods stores. No need to worry about fork hits. Bill arrived at a very clever (and simple) solution for banding wire framed slingshots.

I just modified an old WS-1 for a friend's 6 y.o. daughter who asked her mom for a slingshot. I used some pink sports grip for the handle and made her some puff-ball ammo from pink yarn. She told her mother that she "wanted a slingshot her whole life."


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Yeah. Full circle is right. I found this forum with ONE sling in my pocket...a 1975 Folding Pocket Rocket. After meeting y'all I figured it just wasn't cool to be pulling that 'old thang' out of the glovebox. I have played with enough slings over the last year to become a Self-Proclaimed Slingmeister. I haveTHREE Pocket Predator metal-cores waiting for my hack, another near-dozen ready to shoot slings, another 2-3 that I believe I must have. And THEN y'all turn my upside-down with a $10 dollar widget to make my 'old thang' into a tack driver. I wonder if Luck Over Skill still has that $75 haresplitter for sale........¿

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Mojave Mo said:


> Yeah. Full circle is right. I found this forum with ONE sling in my pocket...a 1975 Folding Pocket Rocket. After meeting y'all I figured it just wasn't cool to be pulling that 'old thang' out of the glovebox. I have played with enough slings over the last year to become a Self-Proclaimed Slingmeister. I haveTHREE Pocket Predator metal-cores waiting for my hack, another near-dozen ready to shoot slings, another 2-3 that I believe I must have. And THEN y'all turn my upside-down with a $10 dollar widget to make my 'old thang' into a tack driver. I wonder if Luck Over Skill still has that $75 haresplitter for sale........¿
> 
> Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


I'll tell you what... if the idea to use these were around when I started back into shooting slingshots... I would never have made my first one. These would have been enough for me.

So I'm glad it came about like it did because I do still prefer a slingshot I actually made over the store bought one, even though I am probably capable of just as much if not more top end accuracy with the Walmart bought Daisy B52 or Marksman pack along.

The other cool thing is now we can make all sorts of slingshots and simply use 1/4" bent rod for the tips... as these allow them to become universal tips... but not as oversized as many that we make now... Think "Weber Slingbow" type tips on practically any kind of frame and the Smart Clamps to make it Universal... able to shoot any sort of elastic and change it out quickly and easily.


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## MOJAVE MO (Apr 11, 2018)

Bill Hays said:


> Mojave Mo said:
> 
> 
> > Yeah. Full circle is right. I found this forum with ONE sling in my pocket...a 1975 Folding Pocket Rocket. After meeting y'all I figured it just wasn't cool to be pulling that 'old thang' out of the glovebox. I have played with enough slings over the last year to become a Self-Proclaimed Slingmeister. I haveTHREE Pocket Predator metal-cores waiting for my hack, another near-dozen ready to shoot slings, another 2-3 that I believe I must have. And THEN y'all turn my upside-down with a $10 dollar widget to make my 'old thang' into a tack driver. I wonder if Luck Over Skill still has that $75 haresplitter for sale........¿
> ...


So it appears that we both won Mr. Hays. You got to make slings in a big way and I got to shoot em'. Thanks again! MM

Sent from my SM-G965U using Tapatalk


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

Thanks for reviving the topic Blue Raja! I have a Barnett Black Widow, which I was shooting before I joined the forum. I quickly learned that the stock bands and pouch were the culprit for shoddy marksmanship (definitely not my form :naughty: ). I do enjoy shooting with the wrist brace though. I have some rudimentary experience with archery, and like BR mentioned, keeping a nice loose grip is key to a good clean release. With the brace you can let the handle nestle in the web between thumb and forefinger, and not worry about wrist torque. I haven't shot it much since I've gotten my other slings, but having seen Bill's new invention I'm looking forward to digging it out! I have looped 1840 tubing I wanted to shoot with, but my wrists were too weak with a standard frame...


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## Blue Raja (Feb 10, 2016)

MikeyLikesIt said:


> Thanks for reviving the topic Blue Raja! I have a Barnett Black Widow, which I was shooting before I joined the forum. I quickly learned that the stock bands and pouch were the culprit for shoddy marksmanship (definitely not my form :naughty: ). I do enjoy shooting with the wrist brace though. I have some rudimentary experience with archery, and like BR mentioned, keeping a nice loose grip is key to a good clean release. With the brace you can let the handle nestle in the web between thumb and forefinger, and not worry about wrist torque. I haven't shot it much since I've gotten my other slings, but having seen Bill's new invention I'm looking forward to digging it out! I have looped 1840 tubing I wanted to shoot with, but my wrists were too weak with a standard frame...


Makes for interesting reading - to say the least. Bill came up w/ a great solution for reviving wire-framed and wrist braced slingshots and I want to encourage everyone to support him and order his Predator Smart Clamps (and lots of other stuff while visiting his site - and to make certain, I am endorsing Bill on my own and receive nothing from him in return). I really like the idea of the aim groove. Until the clamps arrive, here is how I attach pseudo-tapered 1842s to my Trumark, using gutted paracord gypsy tabs wrapped and tucked w/ #64 rubber bands. Not nearly as elegant or efficient as Bill's clamps - but a rough and ready solution while awaiting the real thing!


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## MikeyLikesIt (Oct 19, 2018)

That's a sweet looking frame! I'd like to try and do something to make my arm brace a little comfier. I'll definitely be checking out the clips! As someone else mentioned somewhere, it's also a cool way to get new people into the sport. Wire frames are forgiving, and the clips will allow you to put some decent bands on a slingshot that doesn't cost more than $10! Hours of fun, low cost, no hassle!


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## Tex-Shooter (Dec 17, 2009)

Why would you not want to shoot a wrist Braced slingshot once in a while, maybe just to have fun! I have shot my Bazooka Star slingshot at full butterfly draw (89 inches for me) and it was fun to shoot that way. In this video, the wind was blowing too hard and I was afraid to shooto at complete full draw because of it slapping my face!

h27mpINpHoM


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