# speed shooting idea



## you'llshootyereyeout (Apr 5, 2014)

Today I'm testing out an idea I had recently. I thought one of the ways to increase speed when shooting would be to shorten the amount of time it takes to load the shot into the pouch. The way I did this is to never grab the pouch. I though it would be faster to just pinch the marble all the way through the shot. This video shows my efforts after about 100 rounds. It took most of that time to realize that the pouch I was using was too big. with a smaller pouch I did much better. I understand that I didn't hit the can with A LOT of the marbles but I did manage to get them all in the catch box. I think my accuracy will improve with a bit of effort. Also I was only handling one marble at a time. To me it just feels weird to hold ammo in my pouch hand but I will have to get over that to improve my time.

Thanks for watching and please feel free to give me any feedback.

I fired 19 shots in 58 seconds from about 20 feet. I don't event know if that is a good rate of fire or not.


----------



## SmilingFury (Jul 2, 2013)

Interesting way to skin this cat. Keep us posted if you keep working this angle. I am curious if it is a viable option.


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

With the pouch properly sized to the ammo, that should be pretty fast. I figure 19 shots in one minute with only a little practice is pretty darn good!

Cheers ... Charles


----------



## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

Yeah! It's dam good!

I've been wanting to try this "pinch" for a while now. First saw it done and done very well by some Chinese shooter, and really interested me... I thought it might be a great excuse for someone to have a go at redesigning pouch patterns that might be a whole lot lighter than the popular "Standard" (helping a lot of folks get rid of handslap) and it might have potential to be very accurate!

Have you done much target shooting using this "pinch" ? I mean at a normal, relaxed pace.....

Good job Matt!


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

If someone could shoot that way accurately then it would be something to consider, for sure.
Many of the really fast guys shoot with a middle finger/thumb grip, which can also be loaded very quickly. It's one less motion than I use but one more than the technique you're using :thumbsup:
It seems like a re-think of pouch design would be in order.


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

I just tried this and the results are extremely promising!

Video uploading...


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Even with a far less than ideal setup (looped tubes, no tie) I managed 6 decent shots in 18 seconds, or right about 20/min, with this style after practicing it for about 10 shots before I started the camera. Distance is 33'

I think it has a ton of promise! Thanks, Shane!


----------



## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

M.J said:


> Even with a far less than ideal setup (looped tubes, no tie) I managed 6 decent shots in 18 seconds, or right about 20/min, with this style after practicing it for about 10 shots before I started the camera. Distance is 33'
> 
> I think it has a ton of promise! Thanks, Shane!


Pssst...... Pssst, Hey....... MJ..... It's Matt......... Shane's the bearded one with all those nosey cats.......... hehehe nice shootin , ball pincher!


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Yeah, I'm stupid.
Sorry Matt.


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Yep ... looks quite promising ...

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Yep, this technique works.

I went out tonight and tried for semi-accurate shots from 33' in a minute. Semi-accurate meaning in my recycle-tub catchbox. I got 22 a few times, which is a new record for me. I can think of a couple quick changes to my setup (including something besides my Maxpedition bag to hold the ammo) that would get me to 25 for sure and from there it's just a matter of working on the accuracy.

I'm pretty excited about this! I'm going to shoot with this grip full time.


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout (Apr 5, 2014)

Is it too late to keep this a secret? Nothing to see here!!! Disregard all this nonsence!!

MJ what size ammo are you using? How big is the pouch?

So far I have found a small but firm pouch to work well. It holds the shape for reloading but is small enough for my fingers to slip past on the shot.


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout (Apr 5, 2014)

Lee Silva said:


> Yeah! It's dam good!
> 
> I've been wanting to try this "pinch" for a while now. First saw it done and done very well by some Chinese shooter, and really interested me... I thought it might be a great excuse for someone to have a go at redesigning pouch patterns that might be a whole lot lighter than the popular "Standard" (helping a lot of folks get rid of handslap) and it might have potential to be very accurate!
> 
> ...


Not really. I kinda hit the ground running to get some speed. Now that I think it might be a viable technique I'll work on some slower accuracy sessions.


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

1/2" steel. The pouch in the video is a Rayshot one, I also used a Performance Catapults one to equally good effect.
I think a thoroughly broken in but not flopped out pouch helps because when you draw back the ammo sinks into the dimple that's already there.


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

The first time I tried this grip I actually just pointed out towards the field and shot because I had no idea where it was going to go :rofl:
When I slow down and use my regular setup accuracy is just fine.


----------



## BAT (Feb 26, 2015)

Hey!! looks quite fast technique! I´m gonna try it. Thanks for the tip Shane (Or the secret?) 

M.J., holding the ammo in a pouch attached to your waist is by rule? I mean, I was shooting the other night, was a little cold so I had this hoodie on, and the pockets of this hoodie are wide enough for me to hold the ammo and grab it without having to turn my head and see what I´m doing, this way I can focus all the time in the target. Maybe is nothing, but for me seems like taking one step out of the process.


----------



## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

Geez that IS frickin fast!!! Right on, boys!!


----------



## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

if it works for drinking im sure itll work for shooting


----------



## leon13 (Oct 4, 2012)

Great to see some one gets a grip out if it 
When I had a cut in my 2 fingers ( yes yes I know a noter one ) I just could hold the pouch like this and was kinda exited to do some shooting at least 
I will give it a try next time again 
thanks for showing
Cheerio


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

Good to see the chestpouch idea come to use...


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

Mentntioned it in "Different branches of shooting" as a suggestion to improve the world tecord in shooting cans from 10 m in a minute


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

So... is 40 shots a min still impossible.... I still think its not..


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

pelle.chamliden said:


> So... is 40 shots a min still impossible.... I still think its not..


Then do it.
You've thrown out a lot of your theories about this with no practical experience in the matter. Go out and shoot and then get back to us. Until then I'm tired of you saying all these things that you "know" could be done if people would just do them.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

pelle.chamliden said:


> So... is 40 shots a min still impossible.... I still think its not..


 Enough talk lets see it in action. If not its just Bla ,Bla ,Bla.


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

Just saying...that in many other sports there exists coaches... those doesnt necessarily have any own experience as athletes themselves... but it doesnt mean they have nothing good to suggest or cant see qhat athletrs can improve... So having an open ming and analytical thinking about what othets has to say instead of being quick to discredit/ignore or ask them to "walk the walk" is just plain stupid AND bad publicity building...


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

People who can do it do it . People who can't talk about it. Enough caterwauling. If you were going to invest your money would you go with the guy that says what could be possible or the guy that's proven what he can do with investments. Kind of a no brainer don't you think?


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, I don't like to brag, but I have shot 43 soda cans in one minute from 15 meters. However, I have never revealed this before, because I did not want others to feel bad that they cannot come up to my standard. So, Pelle ... I want to encourage you. When you post your video of taking down 20 or more at 10 meters, I'll post mine of taking down 43. I am sure you can do it if you will just try.

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## Aefr (Jul 20, 2014)

Charles said:


> Well, I don't like to brag, but I have shot 43 soda cans in one minute from 15 meters. However, I have never revealed this before, because I did not want others to feel bad that they cannot come up to my standard. So, Pelle ... I want to encourage you. When you post your video of taking down 20 or more at 10 meters, I'll post mine of taking down 43. I am sure you can do it if you will just try.
> 
> Cheers .... Charles


I agree.


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

Thanks charles !


----------



## Aefr (Jul 20, 2014)

pelle.chamliden said:


> Just saying...that in many other sports there exists coaches... those doesnt necessarily have any own experience as athletes themselves... but it doesnt mean they have nothing good to suggest or cant see qhat athletrs can improve... So having an open ming and analytical thinking about what othets has to say instead of being quick to discredit/ignore or ask them to "walk the walk" is just plain stupid AND bad publicity building...


True, very true. BUT showmanship plays a big part too. Its also part of the fun.


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout (Apr 5, 2014)

If you have an idea why not try it out and share your results? It leads to much better discussion and gives you practical experience. The real world testing could very well lead you to your next idea.


----------



## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

@pelle.chamliden

40 cans a minute !? meh, i can do that in 30 seconds. i can also harvest blue whales with my pfs, knock down brick buildings with tbg and 1/4" titanium tipped ammo, and i can achieve 1000 fps with combos of tbg, black and blue. as i said in another of your threads-









besides, we all know that the secret to uber shooting with a slingshot is a beard, overalls and beer.


----------



## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

...a beard does play a roll. However old wives tailish it sounds, peer-reviewed studies, statistics, & just plain old anecdotal evidence proves this as fact. The "Beer Amplification Effect" (referred to in studies simply as "BAE") has yet to be proven, though the results of several studies proving this too, are expected to be published in the upcoming journals, & let's face it, overalls is just silly heresy at this point; why you'd choose to include this in the grouping is beyond me. All that does is fuel the skeptic's fire.


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Hmmmm...
I really like shooting well but the only thing I hate more than shaving is having hair on my face.
How am I supposed to take it to the next level if I refuse to grow a beard!?!
Are overalls and beer enough?


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

M.J said:


> Hmmmm...
> I really like shooting well but the only thing I hate more than shaving is having hair on my face.
> How am I supposed to take it to the next level if I refuse to grow a beard!?!
> Are overalls and beer enough?


Well, bib overalls, and ENOUGH beer will be a good substitute for the beard ....

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Charles said:


> M.J said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmmm...
> ...


Charles raises an excellent point; there must be a fair amount of beer consumed (per BAE studies) to attain therapeutic benefit ("Therapeutic Level Dose" or TLD in the Rangar models)...the AVB wasn't to be below 8.2%/12 fl.oz. solution, correct?


----------



## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

Wow Charles, I think that your full auto slingshotery equals or beats world record! Betcha can keep a jack-a$$ runnin' who pokes around at night. (Jack-a$$ is a slang word for a donkey Sr. moderators so don't slap me with a wet trout for suggesting shooting humans) although I sure wouldn't be pokin' around the wood pile with that sort of full auto slingshoting!!!. About riding on one's a$$, Refer to Mathew 21, good ole Zachariah 9:9, John 12:14

And holding your balls instead of your pouch while speed shooting certainly is a trick to behold.

2010 Guiness World Record speed shooting with slinigshot






Fast forward to 5:15 ish


----------



## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Why hasn't anybody thought of this before? It's always these seemingly "simple" ideas that make a big difference in moving us all forward. Nice going Matt. You da man!

(Sadly, since I'm on a bb-shooting mission from God right now, I doubt this will help me. LOL)


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I shoot this way! Almost exclusively.. It seems to me like forbidden common sense shunned by the slingshot world when I 'discovered' it for myself. Still figuring out my perfect band combos, but I'm not sure why this isn't the more common way to shoot.. Most of you guys are faar better shooters than me, but I can sometimes shoot upwards of 30 SPM.. not necessarily accurately, but like Charles said, 40 cans is definitely possible for the experiences shooter.. Perhaps MJand him will be setting a new standard for high level competitive speed shooting....


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Charles was joking when he said 40 shots in a minute jeeze . Are you kidding ?


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

No. Not kiddin at all.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

If you think that 40 shots at a soda can from ten meters in 60 seconds and actually hit them all is possible. Say hello to Santa Clause and the Easter Bunny for me.


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout (Apr 5, 2014)

I would very much like to see the technique involved in firing 30+ rounds per minute. A simple shooting video would likely put all this to rest.

Shoot it, film it, share it. Easy as that.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I'm sure you could shoot off 30 wild shots .but let's see you hit a soda can


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

honorary pie said:


> I shoot this way! Almost exclusively.. It seems to me like forbidden common sense shunned by the slingshot world when I 'discovered' it for myself. Still figuring out my perfect band combos, but I'm not sure why this isn't the more common way to shoot.. Most of you guys are faar better shooters than me, but I can sometimes shoot upwards of 30 SPM.. not necessarily accurately, but like Charles said, 40 cans is definitely possible for the experiences shooter.. Perhaps MJand him will be setting a new standard for high level competitive speed shooting....


I would LOVE to see a video of you shooting 30 shots in one minute .... please ....

Cheers ...... Charles


----------



## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Well, I can shoot one shot in 1/2 second. That is a rate of 120 shots per minute. And I can sometimes hit a can with that shot.


----------



## JonM (Aug 17, 2013)

Don't forget to burp between shots. :rofl:


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I'll try tonight and see if I'm video worthy or just talking smack ... my accuracy isn't there yet but I can fire em off pretty quick sometimes... When I first thought of trying this pouch hold, I was trying to figure out how some shooters and unload so quickly. I saw a video by Nathan (speed competition) and I thought the second shooter in was using a grip that Is close to this. He was banging em out like crazy.. On a starship perhaps?


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

OK all sarcasm aside, I do in fact know a way that it can be done. However I'm having a huge twisting problem. And for the record, yes, there are currently plenty of wild shots. If I shoot completely negligent of band twist ups, and pouch orientation, is it still allowed? Or does anyone know of a good way to reduce to number of band flips? Having watched MJ shooting, I think he may be the man to do it. I'll try and post a video ..

What kind of tube setup would be ideal? I always have a hard time orienting them as not to curl on themselves.


----------



## AZ Stinger (Aug 30, 2012)

As a speed shooter I`ll have to give that a try....thanks


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Not to be a jerk but the kind of shooting one would have to do to even approach 40/min is not my idea of a good time.
You would basically have to shoot with an extremely short draw and without setting up the shot, even mentally.
Keep in mind that for an official word record the cans all have to be on the same plane, as in about 8" apart and in a row. I set up 20 at my attempt and by the time I got to the last ones they probably would have been 40' away, nevermind how long a row you would need for 40.
I think if 40 shots is possible (and I'm not at all convinced that it is) then it would be a type of useless shooting with no purpose outside of saying that you did it.


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I hear the echo of somebody's dad saying "you can't shoot squirrels with that thing! That's what a gun is for! Shooting a stick and some rubber serves no purpose other than to say you did so. ". I know its possible to shoot accurately 40 shots in a minute. I'm not claiming I can or have, but I'm sure YOU MJ could do it cozily with very little practice.

Not trying to fuel the nay-sayers, so take it easy boys, I'll try and post a video today as my camera was dead yesterday. I don't video.


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

Looking forward to the video.


----------



## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

While some claims seem outrageous, please bear in mind that just a few years ago we were arguing whether it was possible to strike a match at 10 meters. Note that even the Mighty Master, Bill Hays, was not successful. He persevered, though and was successful and went on to light a swinging match and then put it out.

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/6525-attemp-to-light-a-match/?hl=%2Bmatch+%2Bstrike#entry67667

There are other examples on this Forum of feats that were considered impossible not too long ago.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

I think the difference is if you have the right equiptment you can practice and get accurate. But there's a physical limitation on how fast you can move. A runner who can say runs the 100 meter dash in 9.9 sec. All the training in the world is not going make him run it in 5 sec. The body has its limits.


----------



## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

We aren't talking about shooting 100 shots a minute. Obviously there are limits, but that doesn't mean that new equipment, better training, and lots of practice won't move the current limits. The 4 minute mile was once impossible. Then someone did it, and all of a sudden lots of folks could do it.

Check this video. Three hits in 3 seconds from a belt-holstered draw.


----------



## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

Okay, this is actually kind of funny... when I was a kid I thought this was how you were supposed to shoot a slingshot...

Hold the ammo and not the pouch... and of the kids I've taught, I'd say maybe a quarter do that to begin with before being shown differently... my son Ben still does it when he's shooting big rocks.

I think the fastest method is probably the one that DGui uses though... the load with the index finger and hold with middle finger and thumb... using that method, even my broke-ass hands can pull off close to 30 shots a minute.... can I consistently hit anything at that speed though? No.

In Vietnam the bullet to kill ratio was something like 20,000 to 50,000 to 500,000, depending on who you ask.... Machine gunning, spray and pray....

Whereas the average sniper averages less than two shots per kill....

For the cans hit in a minute record... hitting a soda pop can isn't difficult at all from 10 meters... so there needs to be a combination Machinegunner/Sniper style to get it done... and it's my opinion that 20 cans is certainly doable, if not more.... am I one who could do it? Highly doubtful... when I was practicing for this stunt some time ago, I did get 16 cans in a minute a couple of times.... But when I watched DGui shoot with his style, I pretty well quit even trying because I knew/know that if he were to ever actually try he could do far more than I really want to spend time trying to do.

Because I'm far into the Sniper side of the spectrum... never been much of a fan of spray and pray.... which is exactly what I would be doing if I were to attempt it nowadays.


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

I will have a good time to break the barrier 40 can hits a minute from 10m. First goalbis just to break it ... next is to to 40 shots and 40 hits less than on min on 10m ..... I am pretty sure its feasible...


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

If short draws is a prob one can adapt the tubes/bands for thay draw length... mental preparation for aiming is no prob as long as you shoot with a free so called "no anchor style" ... but of course obe cannot lean back to the comfort of anchor points anymore... it doesnt cut the cakes quick enough for the task... how you practise/solve that problem is up to you... but my predictuon is tha the ones that blows the 40 hits barrier will stand in a circle shooting 40 + cans and not use any anchoring to shoot... it will just be a task about watch, draw watch draw and recurse until timeout. This is another kind of fun different from the zen shooting (olympic style) that contemplates more about doing the same thing and as perfect as possible. .. which is an art by its own account... but its not speed shooting in its essence and should not be pondered as a guide in how to speed shoot...


----------



## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

May I suggest more modest goals for the time being. Say, 10 cans in one minute?


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I think Bill was onto something regarding the bullet ratio.. Could you honestly be expected to fire a machine gun as accurately and precisely as a sniper rifle? Not really. But no matter how great you are with a sniper rifle, it wouldn't be appropriate in qcb scenario where "spray and pray" with an automatic weapon would be more suitable.

Now when I first stated that I could shoot upwards of 30 shots per minute, this was based on my being able to fire off shots every 1-2 seconds in short succession .. Like when a car travels at 100mph without actually going 100 miles. I figured if I can shoot that quickly (sometimes with decent accuracy) than surely somebody who's been doing it longer than a few months can go higher. In "practice" today I found that I could steadily fire 25 with a few flyers (2ft outside the can) and get about 7 cans per round. I didn't video cause I wasn't gonna until I actually practiced because I'm very sloppy, but I know that it can be achieved . and probably isn't that tough. But grueling for sure.


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

But if a challenge is to actually arise from this, there really should be a criteria.. Perhaps one suitable to the purpose.


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

honorary pie said:


> I think Bill was onto something regarding the bullet ratio.. Could you honestly be expected to fire a machine gun as accurately and precisely as a sniper rifle? Not really. But no matter how great you are with a sniper rifle, it wouldn't be appropriate in qcb scenario where "spray and pray" with an automatic weapon would be more suitable.
> 
> Now when I first stated that I could shoot upwards of 30 shots per minute, this was based on my being able to fire off shots every 1-2 seconds in short succession .. Like when a car travels at 100mph without actually going 100 miles. I figured if I can shoot that quickly (sometimes with decent accuracy) than surely somebody who's been doing it longer than a few months can go higher. In "practice" today I found that I could steadily fire 25 with a few flyers (2ft outside the can) and get about 7 cans per round. I didn't video cause I wasn't gonna until I actually practiced because I'm very sloppy, but I know that it can be achieved . and probably isn't that tough. But grueling for sure.


Even so, it would be nice to see your video of 25 shots in one minute, with 7 hits on properly spaced soda cans at 10 meters.

Cheers .... Charles


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

For the sake of saying.

, This was one can.. Dunno if I'd have better luck shooting individuals.. I've only had about an hour or so between work and darkness to practice.


----------



## Chuck Daehler (Mar 17, 2015)

I guess there's some use for rapid fire slingshotery...if for anything a challenge and fun but certainly not to hunt, for slingshots are only good for small game, i.e. even smaller still 1 inch kill zone targets, often moving. For example, shooting a rabbit in the hind end with a rapid shot doesn't accomplish much other than a sore and more wary rabbit and nothing in the fry pan..


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

honorary pie said:


> For the sake of saying.
> , This was one can.. Dunno if I'd have better luck shooting individuals.. I've only had about an hour or so between work and darkness to practice.


One can, several cans, whatever.
I'm still waiting for evidence of your shooting prowess to back up your claims.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Your in for a long wait MJ.


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Cjw, instead of being a nay-sayer, I would like to know what you think is the absolute max rate of fire with a slingshot.. It would sound like I'm talking a lot of smack, but I don't Crave validation. I only wanted to encourage people that insane speeds "can" be achieved.. I said I'd demonstrate a way that a skilled shooter could do it, and I will. Using the same pouch grip as this topic was started on.

Attitudes like that are a blight to sociality.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Hey show your stuff and I won't be a nay-sayer. Until than its just blowviating which adds nothing to social harmony. I've been in competitive shooting of one type or another for 30 years . I've heard a lot of people talk the talk. But very few have ever walked the walk.


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

That's fair enough. And to be sure, I don't claim to walk any big walk. I've never shot anything competitively, nor made so much as a YouTube video. I think thatthis method could essentially allow the best shooters (which in your case may include yourself) to shoot at very high speeds accurately. If I demonstrate how I think it could be done, would you try it and give yourself an honest challeng


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

To be honest I'm with Bill Hays on this one. I'd rather be able to hit a dime consistently from 10 meters than throw as much rounds down range as possible. It's like at the fair. They have those bb machine guns where you try to shoot out the red star target. And you know why almost no one ever wins . It's because the guns are not accurate. It doesn't matter how fast you shoot if your not accurate .


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
Just because you're fast doesn't mean you're inaccurate and just because you're slow doesn't make you a sniper.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

That may be but I have yet to see rapid match lighting or card cutting. Look at a rapid fire pistol target and a slow fire pistol target the rapid fire is bigger because your not as accurate shooting fast.


----------



## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

M.J said:


> The two are not necessarily mutually exclusive.
> Just because you're fast doesn't mean you're inaccurate and just because you're slow doesn't make you a sniper.


True enough... but it is a lot easier to be more accurate if you take your time and get everything right.... the old "you can't miss fast enough" comes into mind here.

BUT, that being said... a soda can is a really big target for most of us now... so even if you "miss" you're likely to hit it, once you've been practicing on cards and matches...

Also, just to be fair... 50,000 shots per kill versus 1.3 shots per kill, is not really a true indication of accuracy differences between machine gun fire and sniper fire...

Interlocking fields of fire... suppressive fire... and other bullet expensive tactics are the real reason there's such a huge discrepancy between a regular soldier and a sniper... I just threw that statistic out there to check and see if I'd get a response...

In reality, when doing CQB, it's more like 20 shots when directed at a known target that's in view by a regular soldier, versus less than 2 shots for sniper... but of course, generally speaking the sniper is shooting from a much greater distance, and uses precision optics to make up for that.

So in other words, a Sniper is only about 10 times more accurate, not 20,000 times better...

BUT THEN AGAIN... what if you have sniper who uses a faster shooting style... Well I can tell you what happens... Watch this incredible shooting feat done by our own Treefork:


----------



## M.J (Nov 1, 2010)

There ya go


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

That was quicker than normal but not the rapid fire being talked here. 40 shots in a minute is 1 shot every 1.5 sec. That's loading the shot pulling the bands back raising the slingshot to half way aim and hit the target. Then lower the slingshot and do again In 1.5 sec. I'm sorry I don't see that as a dream but a fantasy.


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I don't know how I missed it in his video, but I shoot exactly as You'llshootyereyeout demonstrated,, so I can't really show off any cool new technique or anything... just firm belief that we can push limits a bit by using this pouch grip ...Sure, 40 shots is highly unlikely, but achievable within the limits of human physicality and mental preparedness. perhaps 40 actual can strikes is lofty, but I seriously thought Charles meant that when he said it.. and I still think it's possible.

At risk of embarrassing myself, I took a couple shooting vids. I got what I could, and didn't do an awesome job, but I had three videos recorded in Slow-motion before I even managed to figure out the camera... Not sure what my ratios were or anything, but each round was 30 shots from 30-33ft....... being in front of a camera is actually quite nerve-wracking, which I wasn't really previously aware of. I have much to improve on, but maybe when I'll more camera-cozy I'll try again..


----------



## Charles (Aug 26, 2010)

If anybody really believes I can hit 43 soda cans from 15 meters in one minute, then I have some lovely moose pasture I would like to sell you in northern Alberta ... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

Trust me ... if I could do that, I would not hesitate to post the video.

Cheers ..... Charles


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

with mineral rights too?

so I tried counting, and one of my videos there, I shot 30 in just under a minute and a half. with six or seven can hits and four major band snags....... I think that's not too bad. I am not a speed shooter per se, and I've been slinging a few months and put a few hours of practice into this. I think there's more to be delved into here...


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I didn't put any real faith in your claim Charles, maybe I was just gullified for being a novice. why would I argue anyway? knowing full well that I don't know what the limits are, it wouldn't be my place to tell somebody what they CAN'T do....... oh well, it's all encouragement to me...


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

The one in slow-mo picks up properly around 1:30../dunno why


----------



## Carl.G (Apr 12, 2015)

You may have to do your 43 shots a min at 15 m soon ... just saying..


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Man. I'm not even sure when people are being sarcastic anymore.


----------



## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)




----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

So no helpful commentary then? I dunno if I posted those videos correctly, but nobody told me I suck junk yet, so I wasn't sure .


----------



## you'llshootyereyeout (Apr 5, 2014)

I watched your first couple but bailed on the slowmo one. I'll go back and finish watching tonight. Thanks for posting them. It looks like you are shooting about 22/23 shots per minute. Do you feel it could be done twice as fast? You might have less tangles with single tubes instead of looped. Where do you think you will cut down your time?


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

I guess that the first would arranging a tangle-free bandset and ideal pouch (which could definitely be a consideration in a design for this style), I was using marbles, which I don't usually shoot, but work with the pouch better than small ammo. I wasn't grabbing them as fast as I could have, it seems that my back pocket might actually work better but grabbing them from a pile is easiest probably, as they don't roll around.. I put thirty in an ashtray covered with gorilla-tape and they still rolled around, but I wanted to know how many I had. also, the level of table will determine whether I need to bend down or not, sacrificing seconds over the long run. I also tried multiple ammo in my hand, and found that I could shoot them faster in short bursts, but wasn't comfortable and wasted time accommodating my first shot in my hand each time I picked them up....... so yes, I could vastly improve... You may notice that I was very uncomfortable with a camera. I had tried this a few times, and was very stressed out, which also affected my performance negatively.

I've been in construction for a fair amount of time, and having personally seen old-timey roofers bang off nails faster and more accurately with a hammer than the young bucks with air nailers (which is frigging fast) I'm convinced with rhythm, preperation and practice, unbelievable speeds at any particular monotonous task can achieved.. wherever there has been a limit set, there has ever been somebody to improve upon the current technique, and make the process exponentially faster. I don't what the current standard for speed shooting is regarding targets, distances and times, but I'd like to see what the more experienced shooters think,,, so far nobody has said yay or nay to the pouch position, and only you and MJ have posted a video actually trying it...... Bill perhaps (loosely put) suggested it might be the "incorrect" way to pouch your balls, but I'm not really sure why....


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

also, if this is not a currently "accepted" pouch method, I think it should be called 'Free Ballin' ...... yep.


----------



## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

@honorary pie, to help with your tangled tubes problem, put 2 or 3 cuffs/ties on the tubes to hold them together as if they were one. the way your practicing is how i think i would do it, the accuracy will come once you settle on your tube set up, consistant anchor and trained reflexes. in other words practice, practice, practice until it becomes . . . "instinct".


----------



## honorary pie (Feb 12, 2015)

Thanks Imperial, I gave up on anchor points, for this particular game anyway... but you're absolutely correct... thanks for the advice on tubes, I tried a cuff near the fork, and it worked well but they were not equal after my poor tie job..... but mostly the band tangles come from my being stressed out I think..... I've found that a hard downward flick will make the bands slam into the upper fork and keep them on the good side.


----------



## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

honorary pie said:


> I gave up on anchor points, for this particular game anyway


whether you know it or not, you are still developing an anchor point through repetitive muscle memory


----------



## Bill Hays (Aug 9, 2010)

honorary pie said:


> So no helpful commentary then? I dunno if I posted those videos correctly, but nobody told me I suck junk yet, so I wasn't sure .


Looks to me like you're well on your way...

Try reducing the size of the catch box and the can over time... and in just a matter of time you'll be there it looks like.


----------



## Aefr (Jul 20, 2014)

Has anyone said shorter bands to help reduce time needed to reload? It works for me.


----------



## Aefr (Jul 20, 2014)

Single tubes may help with tangle too.


----------



## Aefr (Jul 20, 2014)

Can you shoot from stomach or chest level with accuracy? That may save time. Or raise up the ammo bowl. Just trying to help.


----------

