# "Portability" nonsense? Isn't a starship better for hunting?



## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

I was looking at a few documentaries of hunting tribes, and those folks were either carrying bows that are substantially larger than a regular slingshot, or were carrying 8 foot plus blow guns!

And they were walking miles back and forth. They went farther than any slingshot hunter I've ever seen, with far less concerns about "portability".

It seems to me that the emphasis on having small slingshots for hunting is concealability, not portability: we live in a society that frowns upon people carrying weapons.

If achieving maximum effectiveness in slingshot hunting was the object, why not use a long starship?


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

Pocketable slingshots can be very effective with the right ammo and bandset. I can enjoy the outdoors a little more without having to lug around an 8 foot blowgun or whatever while I"m out finding dinner. Having accuracy and power in something pocketable is a big plus and I'm able to carry more of other things on journeys or camping/hunting trips. That being said I would like to give hunting with a starship a try sometime


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## Byudzai (Aug 31, 2013)

If I was really going out to hunt, I'd bring a gun or a bow. The role of the slingshot in my life is to be pocketable.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Byudzai said:


> If I was really going out to hunt, I'd bring a gun or a bow. The role of the slingshot in my life is to be pocketable.


Oh, so you don't consider a slingshot a serious and effective hunting weapon? You know, there's also pocketable guns and bows...


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

I'd like to see that pocketable bow.


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

There are a lot of reasons not to go with a pocketable gun and stick to slingshots such as gun laws of where your allowed to shoot them, low accuracy due to short barrel lenghth among other factors like inexperience with firearms. High price of ammo to practice. Cannot just go stumping with a gun because when you are out of ammo you are out of ammo, with slingshots ammo is everywhere. A slingshot is very light, a good hunting pistol to rifle has much more weight to it. I might be out of place speaking for byazdi but I think his thoughts might have been your not going to get 3,000 feet per second with 200 grain ammo and expanding deep penetrating bullets but he can correct me if I'm wrong. A slingshot is limited to small game just as a starship is limited. The small increased performance of a starship I think is trumped by the comfort and ease of carry with a pocket slingshot. Like I said a pocket slingshot with the right setup and ammo is a good hunting weapon. Loads of slingshot hunting videos show this


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## Byudzai (Aug 31, 2013)

> Oh, so you don't consider a slingshot a serious and effective hunting weapon? You know, there's also pocketable guns and bows...


Oh dude, no, clearly those things are wicked. I'm just saying that I like slingshots because they are quiet, pocketable plinkers that can take out a squirrel in a pinch. If I'm really going out to hunt, I want something with range, power, and less vulnerability to environmental conditions.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Nicholson said:


> The small increased performance of a starship I think is trumped by the comfort and ease of carry with a pocket slingshot.


Small increase in performance? A 32 inch starship (which in terms of "ease of carry" is about half the size of many hunting bows and 3 times shorter than many hunting blow guns) can shoot about 100 ft/sec faster than a regular slingshot. This gives you significantly more lethality and at a longer distance.


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## Nicholson (Sep 25, 2012)

I've never felt underpowered, I'm perfectly happy with the size of my slingshot


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

This is my rabbit hunting rig...







...I walk 33 miles up hill each way IN THE SNOW (let's see your silly tribe people do THAT) to get to Mr. McGregor's garden...


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Tentacle Toast said:


> This is my rabbit hunting rig...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Da*n, you look like you just got out of SEAL training. Where did you get that cannon from?


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Byudzai said:


> > Oh, so you don't consider a slingshot a serious and effective hunting weapon? You know, there's also pocketable guns and bows...
> 
> 
> Oh dude, no, clearly those things are wicked. I'm just saying that I like slingshots because they are quiet, pocketable plinkers that can take out a squirrel in a pinch. If I'm really going out to hunt, I want something with range, power, and less vulnerability to environmental conditions.


But why not a starship? Many people using regular slingshots report hitting and NOT killing squirrels. More power would do it.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)




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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

People have been hunting rabbits squirrels and other game for decades with nothing but a forked stick and some rubber for years. And putting meat on the table. This constant More Power More Power is amusing . Sounds like Tim Tayler on the old Tool Time show. Funny.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

My experience with people not stopping the game is the same with all hunting tools. Most of the time is not accurate enough with their weapon and shooting from to far. You need to understand the limitation of your weapon .


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Cjw said:


> People have been hunting rabbits squirrels and other game for decades with nothing but a forked stick and some rubber for years. And putting meat on the table. This constant More Power More Power is amusing . Sounds like Tim Tayler on the old Tool Time show. Funny.


Sounds like confirmation bias. How about all the times that the hits didn't kill?

http://slingshotforum.com/topic/39833-tough-squirrels/

And how many of those folks really needed to put meat on the table for them and their family on a regular basis, and as their sole source of meat?
It seems to me that those who do for long periods of time (those tribes people I mentioned), carry larger weapons, including spears.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoRGZ8W2Po



Cjw said:


> My experience with people not stopping the game is the same with all hunting tools. Most of the time is not accurate enough with their weapon and shooting from to far. You need to understand the limitation of your weapon .


yes and that limitation includes not enough power


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

You know have many times I've seen people not stop game with a 270, 300 win mag or 30/06. And had nothing to do with not enough power. Please blowviate to someone who doesn't know any better.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Power is not the only factor. I never said it was. But it is a factor.


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## shew97 (Feb 13, 2014)

Shockley have you ever hunted a day in your life


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes I have. Enough to know what it is to wish I had a more powerful slingshot.


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

When I was a kid I had no problem taking game with an old Wham-O sportsman slingshot with gum rubber bands. Just made sure I was close enough and didn't take shots I was unsure would not be accurate enough. You can't subsitute power for skill and common sense. Weren't you the one talking about taking deer with a slingshot and poison ammo. That says it all right there.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

Yes, shot placement/accuracy are paramount. We agree there.


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

Shockley is your reason for posting these threads just to try to irritate people almost every thread you start turns out just like this one you ramble on and on about facts you read some where and when people give you the information you ask for all you want to do is pick everything apart,and try to get people to agree with your point of view,jesus dude what is your problem i have never met anyone more irritating and unlikable in my life,have you ever met anybody that after 5 minutes would ever want to talk to you again,i highly doubt it,if you act or present yourself like you do on here,have you ever thought about just enjoying the forum for the great people on here or maybe the almost limitless access to information and wisdom of the craftsman and experts on here that happily offer there experience so willingly to anyone that asks and treats them with respect,or do you just like to come on here to be a burr in peoples sides,or is it that you just enjoy making peoples place of relaxation and enjoyment as miserable possible by causing as much unrest as you can muster.don't bother responding because like most people on here i've heard enough from you already


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

better look at the hunting section again there are people that hunt with them.


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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Seems like hypocrisy since you post this sling shot claiming its powerful enough for self defense.????? http://slingshotforum.com/topic/39914-industrial-mini-shockleys-ww4-rotating-ss/

Do you even know or remember what your post anymore.??????


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## Byudzai (Aug 31, 2013)




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## treefork (Feb 1, 2010)

Why was this shut down ?.http://slingshotforum.com/topic/39922-could-a-poisoned-slingshot-ammo-take-out-deer-or-other-bigger-game/


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

treefork said:


> Why was this shut down ?.http://slingshotforum.com/topic/39922-could-a-poisoned-slingshot-ammo-take-out-deer-or-other-bigger-game/


Oh no...now YOURE messing with us, TOO?!

LoL, just joshin'...

...probably to avoid the inevitable sh*tstorm...


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

It was shut down because Forum policy is to not allow discussion/promotion of illegal activity.

And yeah, the inevitable sh*tstorm may have been a factor.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

treefork said:


> Seems like hypocrisy since you post this slingshot claiming its powerful enough for self defense.????? http://slingshotforum.com/topic/39914-industrial-mini-shockleys-ww4-rotating-ss/
> 
> Do you even know or remember what your post anymore.??????


self-defense ≠ hunting


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

bigron said:


> Shockley is your reason for posting these threads just to try to irritate people almost every thread you start turns out just like this one you ramble on and on about facts you read some where and when people give you the information you ask for all you want to do is pick everything apart,and try to get people to agree with your point of view,jesus dude what is your problem i have never met anyone more irritating and unlikable in my life,have you ever met anybody that after 5 minutes would ever want to talk to you again,i highly doubt it,if you act or present yourself like you do on here,have you ever thought about just enjoying the forum for the great people on here or maybe the almost limitless access to information and wisdom of the craftsman and experts on here that happily offer there experience so willingly to anyone that asks and treats them with respect,or do you just like to come on here to be a burr in peoples sides,or is it that you just enjoy making peoples place of relaxation and enjoyment as miserable possible by causing as much unrest as you can muster.don't bother responding because like most people on here i've heard enough from you already


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

I'm sorry to hear that. Happy Holidays.


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

ShockleysWW4Slingbows said:


> I'm sorry to hear that. Happy Holidays.


happy holidays brother,i hope you and yours have a great christmas


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)




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## benzidrine (Oct 14, 2013)

If anyone wants to hunt with a starship than I think that is good for them.

Yet I would argue it is going to be a slight negative rather than a positive to do so. A starship is further away from the hand and therefore will make you somewhat less accurate. Every small movement of the hand is magnified by the lever at the end of you arm that is a starship, just as it is easier to push a button with your finger than the end of a broom handle.

While the power gained is essentially worthless as you can't kill a rabbit more dead than dead.

That said if someone wants more challenge or is more comfortable with a starship than that is fine but it is not the better choice from a utility standpoint.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

benzidrine said:


> If anyone wants to hunt with a starship than I think that is good for them.
> 
> Yet I would argue it is going to be a slight negative rather than a positive to do so. A starship is further away from the hand and therefore will make you somewhat less accurate. Every small movement of the hand is magnified by the lever at the end of you arm that is a starship, just as it is easier to push a button with your finger than the end of a broom handle.
> 
> ...


First of all the power is not worthless, as it gives you significantly more lethality and at a longer distance.
Many people using regular slingshots report hitting and NOT killing squirrels. More power would do it

Secondly, from what I understand they have been used at slingshot competitions, so I'm not sure if what you say is an optical illusion.

I'll illustrate with an example: At one point the chuck in my drill press was not well installed. So the bits would be a bit wobbly. However, this wobbliness was not nearly as noticeable with the short drills as it was with the long ones. That didn't mean that the wobbliness of the CHUCK was any less.

Similarly, one could say that if one follows the forward trajectory of a projectile, the slightly lesser movement that you say happens with a regular slingshot could be EQUIVALENT to a GREATER movement (i.e. inaccuracy) of one that extends forward.

Also, a starship is always stabilized by a wrist brace, whereas many slingshots are not.

In addition, one could argue that a starship, especially the relatively low forked ones I make, "points" naturally; you can see where the long structure is aiming, which is not true of a regular slingshot. Though admittedly, since the starship is locked to the arm, the alignment is not as good as a rifle.

There's also the anchor point. Most hunters report NOT using the cheekbone anchor point that many experts agree is best for accuracy. They do a floating half butterfly because they need more power. A long starship allows you to use the cheek anchor point and still maintain great leverage for hunting.


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## flippinout (Jul 16, 2010)

When I built my first starship, I did so for hunting, as I wanted a longer draw stroke with a face anchor.

Where I hunt, the cover is thick- full of saw briars, downed trees, and bramble. I found the starship unwieldy in heavy cover and missed a few opportunities on game because of it. What's more, it did not fit in my hunting bag, required me to carry it by hand, and was not as quick to grab, load, and shoot when game presented itself. You don't see folks trying to break speed shooting records with a starship because of it's size, and I have yet to compete in a tournament where a starship outshot a handheld slingshot. Hunting requires being able to quickly reload, hit a very small and often moving target, and never taking ones eye's off the game.

My solution was to become 'hunting accurate'(which is more than 'target accurate' IMO) with a floating/longer anchor. Same power, more pocketable, just as 'accurate', and most importantly- more meat on the table.

My two shiny pennies for ya, Shockley.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Henry in Panama said:


> I hide a bunch of posts. If yours was one of them don't waste my time by asking why.


Why not? Aren't you just hangin' out here anyways?


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

That's me, just hangin' out, looking for someone to punish. :angrymod:


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

See? Look at that...~5 minutes response time, & you're saying there's no time for questions?

...I'll bet you could have Detroit cleaned up in the span a week...


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## SmilingFury (Jul 2, 2013)

Henry in Panama said:


> That's me, just hangin' out, looking for someone to punish. :angrymod:


See, I am telling you guys, Henry has a sense of humor and he ain't afraid to use it!! Kudos Henry!


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

flippinout said:


> When I built my first starship, I did so for hunting, as I wanted a longer draw stroke with a face anchor.
> 
> Where I hunt, the cover is thick- full of saw briars, downed trees, and bramble. I found the starship unwieldy in heavy cover and missed a few opportunities on game because of it. What's more, it did not fit in my hunting bag, required me to carry it by hand, and was not as quick to grab, load, and shoot when game presented itself. You don't see folks trying to break speed shooting records with a starship because of it's size, and I have yet to compete in a tournament where a starship outshot a handheld slingshot. Hunting requires being able to quickly reload, hit a very small and often moving target, and never taking ones eye's off the game.
> 
> ...


Thanks for sharing your experience, Nathan. Different strokes for different folks, of course.
You're right that a pocketable slingshot has some advantages. But it also has some disadvantages - potentially bigger ones, in my view.

Let's start with the most important point:

A starship floating anchor will provide more ft/sec than a regular Slingshot's floating anchor.
So IF one can make the starship work, it will assure more lethality and a longer range of that lethality.

That means more hunting opportunities & meat, not less, if, once again, one can make it work.

Let's see if we can address the problems you mention:

1) Did not fit in my hunting bag, required me to carry it by hand.

As you can see from the retractable starship I sent you for review, simply tying some paracord allows one to carry the starship like a rifle




















2) I found the starship unwieldy in heavy cover and missed a few opportunities on game because of it.

What % of the times is the cover so heavy that would lead to a missed opportunity, especially as compared to the % of times that a regular slingshot would not kill a regular prey because it is too far or because it doesn't have enough power? (there are various reports of people hitting and not killing squirrels).
One also has to wonder why it is that so many tribes who live off the land in very lush jungles with thick cover can hunt and maneuver with much larger weapons than a starship.



























3) Hunting requires being able to quickly reload, hit a very small and often moving target, and never taking ones eye's off the game...the starship...was not as quick to grab, load, and shoot when game presented itself

I have a lots questions here:

A ) How much slower?
B ) What % of times when hunting do you not kill the prey on the 1st shot?
C ) How often do you find it necessary to reload faster than a starship allows you?
D ) What % of times is the spotted prey in plain view for longer than the small amount of extra time it may take to grab, load and shoot a starship?
E ) What % of times do you shoot with the ammo pre-loaded in the pouch so that there's no loading time needed?
F) Do you find that using a bigger pouch (like the one I sent you) makes loading easier? (that's actually why I chose it)

4) You don't see folks trying to break speed shooting records with a starship because of it's size

True, but those shots don't seem comparable to hunting shots. That speed in reloading those kinds of shots may not mean very much when it comes to hunting. There's a guy on youtube that can shoot lots of arrows per/minute. Yet even a much slower archer with a more powerful bow might have more success hunting.


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

they hunt with the lager weapons because thats all they have and they want to eat if you gave them a 10/22 they would wipe out the animals there.

? have you ever hunted

? have you ever tracked any thing animal or man

? ever stayed over night in the woods that was not a city or state park

? ever wondered what that thing that went bump in the night was

? ever been with out a shower for days on end

? ever been dirty


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

ghost0311/8541 said:


> they hunt with the lager weapons because thats all they have and they want to eat if you gave them a 10/22 they would wipe out the animals there.
> 
> ? have you ever hunted
> ? have you ever tracked any thing animal or man
> ...


yes to all

Those natives do have the choice of making some of their weapons smaller and still achieve some success. But they don't. And a slingshot is also not a 10/22.


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

shockley be observant who you are talking to the man you are talking so lightly to deserves your respect he is telling you things that he has spent a long time and has earned the wisdom he is giving to you freely his knowledge was learned in situations that a mistake would have resulted in not being here to offer you the wisdom he is offering remember that


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

the answer to # 4 it was probable me.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

bigron said:


> shockley be observant who you are talking to the man you are talking so lightly to deserves your respect he is telling you things that he has spent a long time and has earned the wisdom he is giving to you freely his knowledge was learned in situations that a mistake would have resulted in not being here to offer you the wisdom he is offering remember that


I do have a somewhat blunt style when I discuss or debate but I don't feel that means I disrespected anybody.


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

ShockleysWW4Slingbows said:


> bigron said:
> 
> 
> > shockley be observant who you are talking to the man you are talking so lightly to deserves your respect he is telling you things that he has spent a long time and has earned the wisdom he is giving to you freely his knowledge was learned in situations that a mistake would have resulted in not being here to offer you the wisdom he is offering remember that
> ...


i didn't say you did i was reminding you to do the simple thing such as offering respect where it is do what you do with it is completely up to you


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

Diddly-dad-burn it. Some control freak Nazi mod deleted my post. Who do I complain to?


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## ghost0311/8541 (Jan 6, 2013)

ShockleysWW4Slingbows said:


> ghost0311/8541 said:
> 
> 
> > they hunt with the lager weapons because thats all they have and they want to eat if you gave them a 10/22 they would wipe out the animals there.
> ...


key word is some success they dont go to no Walmart or winndixie they use what they have to eat no subways no Mcdonalds. tell you what go stay with them a few months and teach them i here theres a tribe in new guinea that would love to have you over for dinner.


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

Henry in Panama said:


> Diddly-dad-burn it. Some control freak Nazi mod deleted my post. Who do I complain to?


It was probably Henr... oh.


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## benzidrine (Oct 14, 2013)

I'm sure it is easy to maneuver a bow, or anything large, through a jungle if you have lived your whole life walking through it and you have carried that bow everyday.

I don't think any of us can claim to live that sort of lifestyle though. I think we shouldn't kid ourselves, it doesn't matter how often you get out in nature it isn't going to compare to someone that lives it everyday.

With a regular slingshot anchored to the cheek you have approximately 1 to 30 foot pounds of energy available (assuming a regular adult sized person). I'd consider 20 foot pounds a bit overboard for hunting small game with blunts but it is there.

Now more power can be gotten, more comfortably with a starship yet it comes at a cost to accuracy. It might be a good fit for some people that don't have the muscle power for a regular slingshot and would prefer a longer and lighter draw. But it certainly isn't objectively better, you have a larger and less accurate item for that gain. Like most things in life it is a trade you can choose to make.


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## ShockleysWW4Slingbows (Jul 3, 2014)

benzidrine said:


> I'm sure it is easy to maneuver a bow, or anything large, through a jungle if you have lived your whole life walking through it and you have carried that bow everyday.
> 
> I don't think any of us can claim to live that sort of lifestyle though. I think we shouldn't kid ourselves, it doesn't matter how often you get out in nature it isn't going to compare to someone that lives it everyday.
> 
> ...


As I said earlier, there are many reports of non-lethal hits (see recent thread on squirrels). Also, a starship can be used with double theraband gold, which is not light. Also, I don't agree on the accuracy issue.

Have you compared the accuracy of a starship vs a regular ss at the same draw lengths?

Let's say that draw length to your cheekbone is 30 inches. And suppose you use, say this 32 inch starship I built recently.







If you draw it to your cheekbone, you're getting 22 extra inches draw length i.e. the equivalent of drawing a regular ss to almost full butterfly

Which do you think is more accurate?

Now let's say that you draw the starship bands to your ear (another 6 inches).

And you draw the regular SS another 6 inches, to a totally full butterfly.

Again, which is more accurate?

Bill Hays has said in previous posts that the further away one draws from the cheekbone anchor point, the less accurate one will likely be.

Just for reference, here's me shooting it with a very light non tapered band


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## Emitto (Sep 11, 2013)

ShockleysWW4Slingbows said:


> Nicholson said:
> 
> 
> > The small increased performance of a starship I think is trumped by the comfort and ease of carry with a pocket slingshot.
> ...


Is not the size of the boat that matters is the motion of the ocean! :rofl:

You are very amusing!

Cheers!


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## JonM (Aug 17, 2013)

He certainly knows how to cast a line & reel them in :rofl: :rofl:


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## Crimson Owl (Jun 29, 2014)

First off one of the big reasons i got i to slingshooting was because it was small and cheap. Sure maybe you can snuff out a little more power out of a starship however most people dont want to carry that thing around for too long. We all know naturals are where its at! Cant dance your way out of something you can fit in your pocket and easily will take game. Accuracy over power. Lets see you do a match light bud?


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

Henry in Panama said:


> Diddly-dad-burn it. Some control freak Nazi mod deleted my post. Who do I complain to?


Henry you crack me up,i find your particular type of humor funny,you seem gruff but really i don't think you are as gruff as you want people to believe


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## slinger16 (Nov 3, 2013)

Petition for shockley to visit mwst 2015 so he can demonstrate his methods. We wont take no for an answer


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