# Does design matter?



## moongalba

Yes I am the Old Codger who is the new kid on the block, while most of you I have spoken with or read off are well up the ladder to being true marksmen. I have been pondering somewhat in my mind if the design of a Sling Shot plays any part in accuracy when shooting. I ask myself as a novice, if the old and trusted fork of a branch or a well designed Sling Shot; is one any better than the other?

If a shooter of the old tree fork knows his tool so well that he can hit with some accuracy everything he aims at. This of course can be said of the possessor of a professionally made Sling Shot, which has cost the user some hundreds of dollars unless made by themselves.

There is of course the status symbol of owning a beautifully made Sling Shot, as apposed to the humble home made branch fork. Is there some sociological feeling which is miraculously transferred from the Sling Shot to the owner of such a magnificent instrument of power? Are the physics applied in both cases any different? I think not, for if the shooter and his Sling Shot act as one then both the humble and the well crafted are on equal par.

If David and his humble sling can fell the giant Goliath just as well as if he used a Gatling Gun, then must not the humble tree fork also take pride of place along side the bejeweled Sling Shot?

Asked in all sincerity.

The Old Codger.


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## DaveSteve

Very good post!
I think you see it the way it is.


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## ruthiexxxx

I love making fancy shooters but, when it comes down to it, IT'S ALL ABOUT THE RUBBER!


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## bullseyeben!

Gday from Adelaide!
As much I love a fine looking slingshot, aesthetics dont do much in the way of shooting performance.
some bareback shooters prefer no such frame at all.
I look at fork height and width as a general rule, but what may suit me may not suit others..
its really what you personally prefer.
Take a look at Rufus here, the man was a sniper with simple hand carved forks, no heavily laminated fang dang composites in his pocket, just what worked for him..


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Hi There Moongalba,

You are totally correct Sir.

However, a bad tradesman always blames his tools.

Therefore, so as to not ever be able to blame ones "tools", a good but inexpensive, such as Simple Shots Scout, Or Pocket Predator Target Hathcock.

Are an ideal way for a beginner to obtain their accuracy, before moving on to either making their own, or spending the big bucks on a custom job.

Oh, and I am maybe not too many years behind you also, and we just keep on keepin on.

Cheers Allan


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## ruthiexxxx

Actually, now that I think of it there is one way in which the slingshot maker's art is very important. And that is with HEAVY rubber. Then the comfort really matters if one is to be able to make a proper draw. One of my first efforts had a high relief carving of the Green Man on the grip. Much though I love Him it really impedes the draw to have his nose pushed hard into my palm when pulling heavy tubes !


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Ah, ruthiexxxx better his nose than another part of his anatomy hey......wicked grin.

Cheers Allan


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## ruthiexxxx

LoL...nice one Allan


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## Imperial

its the indian, not the arrow


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## wombat

For me it's all about design. I've recieved a few 'naturals' in trades, and as nice as they are, I just can't hit anything with them!! But with a well thought out boardcut I can actually hit what I'm aiming at. That's not to say there isn't a good natural out there, just as there are a lot of poorly designed boardcuts.

As a side note, David used a 'sling' NOT a slingshot!


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## bullseyeben!

Imperial said:


> its the indian, not the arrow


What if the indians arrow was allot bigger than all of the others indians arrows?


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## Imperial

bullseyeben! said:


> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> its the indian, not the arrow
> 
> 
> 
> What if the indians arrow was allot bigger than all of the others indians arrows?
Click to expand...

then its just arrow shaft envy


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## ruthiexxxx

bullseyeben! said:


> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> its the indian, not the arrow
> 
> 
> 
> What if the indians arrow was allot bigger than all of the others indians arrows?
Click to expand...

Well, my favourite arrows are 4 feet long , over 4 ounces and tipped with a large nail.


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## bullseyeben!

ruthiexxxx said:


> bullseyeben! said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> its the indian, not the arrow
> 
> 
> 
> What if the indians arrow was allot bigger than all of the others indians arrows?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, my favourite arrows are 4 feet long , over 4 ounces and tipped with a large nail.
Click to expand...

You would make one scary indian Ruthie!


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## ruthiexxxx

bullseyeben! said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> bullseyeben! said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Imperial said:
> 
> 
> 
> its the indian, not the arrow
> 
> 
> 
> What if the indians arrow was allot bigger than all of the others indians arrows?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Well, my favourite arrows are 4 feet long , over 4 ounces and tipped with a large nail.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You would make one scary indian Ruthie!
Click to expand...

Thanks amigo...in our tribe the squaws are combat trained too


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Not a broadhead ruthiexxx, I am disappointed.

What if the zombie hoards come over the hill, gotta kill em deader than dead; 1 shot = 1 kill so as to not waste arrows.

Cheers Allan


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## ruthiexxxx

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> Not a broadhead ruthiexxx, I am disappointed.
> 
> What if the zombie hoards come over the hill, gotta kill em deader than dead; 1 shot = 1 kill so as to not waste arrows.
> 
> Cheers Allan


I have made some broadheads but it's a helluva job getting them out of the plywood backstop. My usual quickies are just the blades of kitchen knives. They do the trick but I'm sorting out a trade with a wonderful metalsmith in the USA...a slingshot or slingbow for some hand forged socketed broadheads. Longing to get my hands on these. And I'm still trying to get some standard hunting broadheads. Companies often won't send stuff like that here 

Mind you, anything hit by one of the nail tipped 'quarter pounders' is just not going to get up again !


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Cool, mine in the land of Oz years ago, were standard broadheads with additional breakaway scalpel blades if they hit bones.

Making a 4 way broadhead, for maximum slicing, and artery blood loss killing.

Which I found were perfect for neck shots on deer to 40 meters.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba

Allan, I sure am glad that you are on my side. Your Résumé sure frightens the life out of me, but heck you would be handy to have around on a dark night. Would love to take a few lessons from you.

The Old Codger Robert


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## ash

I reckon design is the factor that makes the difference between having an ok group and an excellent group on your target. The tricky part is that there is no one perfect design. Each and and mind will have different needs in terms of size and angles. The one thing everyone needs is consistency, so a slingshot frame that is easy to gold exactly the same every shot is going to be an advantage in both training and use.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Hey Robert, I have exceeded my limit of likes for the day unfortunately.

So consider you comment liked okay.

My signature block is not meant to frighten anyone, but merely reflects my life.
Professional soldier, unarmed combat instructor, pro boxer, all that macho stuff; so important as a younger man, and now so NOT.

Now merely an old codger like yourself, and a broken down one at that.

Although I must it way better being a has been, than a never was.

Cheers Allan


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Well said ash, consistency is the KEY to accuracy in any shooting.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba

You are right Wombat, David did use a sling, but the casting of the fateful stone used the same principle as a Sling Shot. David knew what he was aiming at and was right on the button. The arrogance of Goliath caused him to be over confident, not so David for after years of experience he knew just where to place the stone. Months of training with the sling was required, not so the Sling Shot.

Thank you for your observation.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Oh Robert,

I meant absolutely zero disrespect to yourself personally by last "never was" comment.

It was more a reflection of my own personality type, being a type 1 or type A.
Depending upon which classification the so called psychology experts choose to take for a given time frame, okay.

Cheers Allan


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## Tube_Shooter

It's a good job that there are people who engineer fine slingshots because try as I may I can't hit diddly with natural forks and TBH if it were a time that only natural forks existed I would've gave up slingshot shooting long ago.


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## lightgeoduck

You and others pretty much covered, but I will put my 2 cents in anyway 

If you want to get the job done you can use just about anything as long you have the proper rubber and ammo set up.

However, design plays a key point in shooting, even with a simple fork from a tree.

As far as "pretty" slingshots. Design is still a factor, but is mostly an extension of the sport and hobby. It's the " ok I have the basics, but what else can I do to enjoy this sport/ hobby even more!

If you can make them, greAt! If not, purchasing one is the second best thing.  correction receiving one from a friend is special beyond belief

We'll typing on the phone sucks, but I believe we all know the benefits and necessities of a slingshot and design

LCD


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## ruthiexxxx

I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get on well with natural forks....I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me ! I suppose practice would get me through but I can't risk the fork hits and fliers shooting indoors.

Give me a big fat hammer grip and a steel fork assembly (preferably with Bunny ears) and I'm happy


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## Tube_Shooter

ruthiexxxx said:


> I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get on well with natural forks....I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me ! I suppose practice would get me through but I can't risk the fork hits and fliers shooting indoors.
> 
> Give me a big fat hammer grip and a steel fork assembly (preferably with Bunny ears) and I'm happy


Exactly my thinking
Indeed during the winter months I shoot indoors and have no room for errors in my shooting,I have to at least get my shots into a 12" x 15" catch box error left a window error right my wife's fine china Lol


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## ruthiexxxx

Tube_Shooter said:


> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get on well with natural forks....I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me ! I suppose practice would get me through but I can't risk the fork hits and fliers shooting indoors.
> 
> Give me a big fat hammer grip and a steel fork assembly (preferably with Bunny ears) and I'm happy
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly my thinking
> Indeed during the winter months I shoot indoors and have no room for errors in my shooting,I have to at least get my shots into a 12" x 15" catch box error left a window error right my wife's fine china Lol
Click to expand...

That must concentrate the mind wonderfully !


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Hi Tube_Shooter,

But what again is winter ?.....

Says he with a sly grin.

Oh yea, that is when it drops below about 24 degrees Celsius and I start shivering, that right; sorry I forgot.

I knew I retired here for a reason besides my wife.

Cheers Allan


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## Tube_Shooter

ruthiexxxx said:


> Tube_Shooter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ruthiexxxx said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm glad I'm not the only one who doesn't get on well with natural forks....I was beginning to think there was something wrong with me ! I suppose practice would get me through but I can't risk the fork hits and fliers shooting indoors.
> 
> Give me a big fat hammer grip and a steel fork assembly (preferably with Bunny ears) and I'm happy
> 
> 
> 
> Exactly my thinking
> Indeed during the winter months I shoot indoors and have no room for errors in my shooting,I have to at least get my shots into a 12" x 15" catch box error left a window error right my wife's fine china Lol
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> That must concentrate the mind wonderfully !
Click to expand...

Haha! it sure does and I often group 1 1/2 inches from 8+ meters however with a natural I was grouping 10 feet or so,oh dear Lol


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## Lacumo

I think design can make a serious difference in some cases. I think shooters with tiny hands will likely have trouble obtaining accuracy with large SS's and shooters with giant hands will likely have trouble with small SS's, so... I think sizing and (SS-to-shooter) fit will affect accuracy. Another instance in which I think design can make a serious difference is the case of some of us older birds. I'm trying out different frame designs/sizes and I find that my (severe) arthritis makes it difficult for me to comfortably and accurately use some frame designs/sizes. I'm still stumbling around in the dark and the jury (on picking my personal favorite frame style) is still out, but it looks like my arthritis and the size of my hands are going to be major determining factors in my choosing whatever kind of SS frame I finally end up gravitating into.

All that having been said... If all you're restricting your comparison to just "plain vs. pretty," I agree w/ everybody above that aesthetics don't affect function.

Disclaimers: 1- I'm new here and definitely NOT what could be called a "go-to info source", so my thoughts should be taken with however many grains of salt you might wish. 2- If I was so very smart, I'd be rich and I'm definitely not rich, so I suspect there's a conclusion that can be drawn from that.


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## harpersgrace

Ugly shoots just as well as pretty as long as its what feels right to you....a natural is just as good as any custom as long as it feels right to you....but there' s the rub no two people are the same....its a good thing that slingshots can be so personel.


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## Tube_Shooter

A couple of years back someone took the 20M championship in the UK with a natural more recently championships here have been taken with wrist braced steel sniper slingshot a SPS and a boardcut slingshot so this shows yes anything can work just as well in the right hands.


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Just proving along with the slingshot, it is the shooter who makes all the difference; and consistency is paramount above all else.

Cheers Allan


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## moongalba

As the new boy ((Or Old Codger on the block) I seem to have asked the right question according to all of the replies sent it. Just shows that we oldies still have something to offer for serious discussion. It pleases me to know that I am still of some use. Life in the old dog if you like.


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## Arturito

I believe that the "best" frame shape is the most comfortable to feel and use to your grip style, personally I like the narrow low forks, can be naturals to hitech, no difference, I believe that consistency depends 100% on release ... the slingshot don't make the shooter ...

Cheers

Arturo


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## AnTrAxX

I think Design is a Factor up to a certain point when the deal is just "hit your target".

If the Slingshot is easy to hold and nothing is in the line of sight or disturbes in any other way, she should be fine.

That point starts to raise when you want more. More Power, more speed, more practicability (Forktips like Nathans, god for every kind of rubber)...and so on.

But again, even the most effective can be cast in aluminum or carved out of a solid piece of wood without beeing pretty, i think noone needs complex laminations for a better result.

But there are at least two reasons why i love to build Slingshots the way i do:

- If i "feel" better when i shot them...Reason enough (maybe i will even hit better when i feel better?)

- If i "feel" better when building them...Reason enough (mabe it´s raining so i can´t shoot?)

I´d always like to compare my Slingshots with Pipes. If you really smoke pipes, you only need a few. 24h to let them dry is enough imo...and if you don´t like strong peppermint tobacco or something else...a handfull of them will do the job...and they don´t have to be pretty at all to be a good pipe...but why the hell has every Pipesmoker i know a Cupboard full of Pipes...some even unused?

You know what? As long as he is happy, and noone is harmed, i don´t care 

Some may even consider it art. Why paint something on a piece of cloth and hang it to your wall Picasso? Because people want to express their feelings and leave something behind...enough reasons for me to keep it up i guess 

Best regards


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Pity AnTrAxX my quota of likes is used.

Therefore consider you comments "liked" please.

Along with very well said/typed.

Cheers Allan


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## ruthiexxxx

AnTrAxX said:


> I think Design is a Factor up to a certain point when the deal is just "hit your target".
> If the Slingshot is easy to hold and nothing is in the line of sight or disturbes in any other way, she should be fine.
> 
> That point starts to raise when you want more. More Power, more speed, more practicability (Forktips like Nathans, god for every kind of rubber)...and so on.
> 
> But again, even the most effective can be cast in aluminum or carved out of a solid piece of wood without beeing pretty, i think noone needs complex laminations for a better result.
> 
> But there are at least two reasons why i love to build Slingshots the way i do:
> 
> - If i "feel" better when i shot them...Reason enough (maybe i will even hit better when i feel better?)
> - If i "feel" better when building them...Reason enough (mabe it´s raining so i can´t shoot?)
> 
> I´d always like to compare my Slingshots with Pipes. If you really smoke pipes, you only need a few. 24h to let them dry is enough imo...and if you don´t like strong peppermint tobacco or something else...a handfull of them will do the job...and they don´t have to be pretty at all to be a good pipe...but why the **** has every Pipesmoker i know a Cupboard full of Pipes...some even unused?
> You know what? As long as he is happy, and noone is harmed, i don´t care
> 
> Some may even consider it art. Why paint something on a piece of cloth and hang it to your wall Picasso? Because people want to express their feelings and leave something behind...enough reasons for me to keep it up i guess
> 
> Best regards


Totally with you here.

For me the practicality has primacy. It must shoot well, be comfortable under extreme strain and, above all, be STRONG ENOUGH ! But after that...well, hell I'm a woodcarver...that's what I do...I carve wood. My bug-out choices for SS and slingbow are both compact and pretty plain...everything else gets carved!


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## reset

Its nice to have a slinger which fits the hand the same way every time one grips it. And shaped in such a fashion that it pretty much sits horizontal and vertical with a straight wrist without strain after 100's of shots.

But then if one doesnt practice then nothing is perfect. And whats perfect for me might not work for others. I got lucky and found the right one for me on my second purchase.


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## Henry the Hermit

As usual, in most things slingshot, the definitive answer is "it depends". Welcome to the Forum.


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## Tube_Shooter

Well I had some loose pocket change(actually I worked extra hours for it)and I'm throwing it at an SPS not that this frame will shoot any better out the box than any other but the frame looks like what I look for in a slingshot.I practice everyday and I will put the accuracy into the frame through just that lots of practice shooting at pennies,the frame is the shooting platform how accurate it will be is entirely down to me,I'm not throwing money into this for it to sit as a shelf queen it will be used daily and hard.


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## Samurai Samoht

This is nothing that hasn't been said before, but its all about personal preference. My main concern is comfort and consistency. If for some reason I don't find both in a slingshot I try another one.


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## moongalba

From what I have gleaned from your comments it would appear that most of you consider the humble "Forked Slingshot" as the founder of todays superior designs which are capable of sending a projectile at speeds in excess of 500 fps. It was inevitable that ones own design and ability would be stamped on every modern Sling Shot. Not only was speed and power essential to the designers intention to perfect a Sling Shot, but to be the champion of champion's. A person who through hard work at creating the perfect instrument, but also who; through natural instinct and a sure knowledge of what his Sling Shot was capable of achieving could sweep aside all of the competition.

My deepest "thank you" for all of your comments and suggestions. May your eye be true and your Sling Shot your constant companion.

My deepest respect to you all

The Old Codger.

Robert


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Well said Sir.

Cheers Allan


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## jimmycg

Let us not forget David had Help from GOD so it is not like all things are equal. Sorry I had to say something yo have a good point.


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## Davidka

jimmycg said:


> Let us not forget David had Help from GOD.


No i hadn't...


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## flipgun

Then you throw into the mix, Bareback shooters. Does the concept of design still have any meaning in that regard?


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## Imperial

flipgun said:


> Then you throw into the mix, Bareback shooters. Does the concept of design still have any meaning in that regard?


yes . . .


























:neener:


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## flipgun

I think Brazilviking can help with that. :imslow:


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## Bob at Draco

I think design can be every thing. I've shot SS all my life and have killed mass quantities of small game. I've always been a pretty good shot, usually useing tree forks or board cuts. When Bean Flip posted his sling shot idea making them out of pipe, I found the perfect sling shot for me. The curve of the 2 1/2" pipe fits my hand perfectly and the narrow forks work perfectly for my method of shooting with the top of my ear anchor. My accuracy went way up and I enjoy shooting the pipe shooters mor than any other kind. Thanks for the great *design* Bean Flip.


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## ruthiexxxx

jimmycg said:


> Let us not forget David had Help from GOD so it is not like all things are equal. Sorry I had to say something yo have a good point.


I'd put my trust in double 50/80s and big lead.


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## jimmycg

Then again we are no David.


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## TxTickPkr

An old saying, "Beware the man with one gun. He probably knows how to use it." Seems to me the more you shoot whatever you have the better you should be with it. I'm sure you are aware of the art and enovation on this site. A lot of that art is influenced by the builders personal ergonomics and shooting styles. I'll bet everyone agrees they shoot better with a slingshot that fits their ergonomics and shooting style. If it's a random cut unfinished fork and it works for you then that's like finding a .22 that shoots best with cheapo ammo. It does happen.


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## moongalba

Golly; you guy's and gals crack me up at times. How the heck did poor old David get into the act? As was pointed out that it was most likely that he had God's help. Might I remind you that it was David who picked out six stones to use in his sling. These stones would have been like a large flat heavy coin. David had been using the sling for many years and was a crack. It is this Old Codgers opinion that he had used the sling ever since he could swing it around his head, therefore there was no need for God to give any assistance. David would have has the sling whirling around his head as he approached Goliath. His head was an open invitation to Davis and he took it, the smooth stone sinking deep into the unprotected forehead. He certainly got his comeuppance did old Goliath.

Here endeth the first lesson.


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## ruthiexxxx

Leaving aside the superstitious aspect and assuming there to be some grain of truth in the legend then I suspect Goliath was quite a tough nut to crack. As a 'giant' he was probably affected by acromegaly, a condition leading to gigantism and considerable thickening of bone mass. Cracking a skull like that with a sling would not have been easy !


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## Journey2There

moongalba, this indeed is a good topic and it plays into a much bigger arena than slingshots. The humble fork is great. But we are human and not content with 'what is' and have to find ways to 'what can be', hence the SS that can launch at 500 fps. That requires something more. And although the 'humble fork' has it's own beauty, an exotic laminate is inspiring!

I am a noob and in the last couple months have made 8 SS's. Some, I think, are very nice... but I've found the most uncomfortable are the ones I shoot best. I will continue until I find 'my' design.

And for the record, David picked up 5 rocks. And, as one who lives in the Land of Israel, it took a lot more than skill to take down Goliath. That is, if you believe such stories.


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## jazz

Hi all,

"Design" for me always have a widest possible meaning: in case of cars, for example, it is not only the shape of the body, colour, shine etc. but interior also and even the smell of the interior, but also the engine, and all other parts and sistems that make the unity called "le car"; slinghsots is not any deifferent issue, so that "design" in slingshots for me means not ony the shape and the finish of the frame, but also rubbers, and the pouch, the attachment methods and many other small details, all fitting into wider meaning of "design".

However, in both of the above examples one thing, in my oppinion, is crucial for the "design" - and this is functionality - what is the point of the "sport design" of a car if the car is not a sports one?

In slinghsots there is also not one functionality but many and all of them directly stem from the purpose: target shooting, short range; target shooting, long range; can, lids, tiles, coconuts etc. bursting; plinking; power shooting (or whatever the name is); hunting birds, small game, medium game - animals, birds, fish.. All of these and other purposes impose a given functionality which we first have to achieve by the total design of the slingshot: it is then easier to shoose the frame, bands, pouch or that sistem which throws arrows (whatever the name is) etc. Even the colour of the slinghshot might be a direct result from a functionality: I do not suppose that a hunter would make a shiny, fluorescent frame and go after a difficult game.. but neither will someone who wants to show a bit off in a company of fellow shooters come up with a completely "unintersting" frame - or, vice versa, somebody just might come up with an "uninteresting" shooter but only, maybe, to leave an inpression - he/she better be a perfect shooter, then.

Still, various people have tried various methods: firstly, forked slingshots, secondly, single-forked slingshots or stickshots etc. and finaly no-fork, or bareback slingshots. Yeah, we should not forget pochless setups and the like.

And on top of that we all have differing ergonomics and one simple example is the fact that some people simply can not shoot holding the frame upright, while others can not not do it.. Other example is the shooting stile which both falls into ergonomics but also functionality: some people can not shoot butterfly while other are so comfortable with it.

And there is one thing more that falls into personal realm and it is pride of the slingshot maker and/or slingshot user so couple of purely technicaly unimportant details are important to the user so some personal simbolic language might come in, such as carving the frame, trying to mach contrasting colours of the frame and the rubbers, pictures, shiny details, beautiful pins and many other do show the pride of the owner. Realy, if hunters like to have beautifuly carved and ornamented guns, why we in the slingshot world would not have the right to have the same.

So, it seems that when the design of a slingshot is in focus we mostly shuttle from functional requirements, methodological approaches, personal ergonomics, and finaly, but with some people most importantly - personal preferences, trading off even the functionality to a given degree.

So my answer to the question: "does design matter?" is that maybe it does not matter in some general sense, but it does matter to us.

cheers,

jazz


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## Performance Catapults

Credentials?


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## moongalba

jazz said:


> Hi all,
> 
> "Design" for me always have a widest possible meaning: in case of cars, for example, it is not only the shape of the body, colour, shine etc. but interior also and even the smell of the interior, but also the engine, and all other parts and sistems that make the unity called "le car"; slinghsots is not any deifferent issue, so that "design" in slingshots for me means not ony the shape and the finish of the frame, but also rubbers, and the pouch, the attachment methods and many other small details, all fitting into wider meaning of "design".
> 
> However, in both of the above examples one thing, in my oppinion, is crucial for the "design" - and this is functionality - what is the point of the "sport design" of a car if the car is not a sports one?
> 
> In slinghsots there is also not one functionality but many and all of them directly stem from the purpose: target shooting, short range; target shooting, long range; can, lids, tiles, coconuts etc. bursting; plinking; power shooting (or whatever the name is); hunting birds, small game, medium game - animals, birds, fish.. All of these and other purposes impose a given functionality which we first have to achieve by the total design of the slingshot: it is then easier to shoose the frame, bands, pouch or that sistem which throws arrows (whatever the name is) etc. Even the colour of the slinghshot might be a direct result from a functionality: I do not suppose that a hunter would make a shiny, fluorescent frame and go after a difficult game.. but neither will someone who wants to show a bit off in a company of fellow shooters come up with a completely "unintersting" frame - or, vice versa, somebody just might come up with an "uninteresting" shooter but only, maybe, to leave an inpression - he/she better be a perfect shooter, then.
> 
> Still, various people have tried various methods: firstly, forked slingshots, secondly, single-forked slingshots or stickshots etc. and finaly no-fork, or bareback slingshots. Yeah, we should not forget pochless setups and the like.
> 
> And on top of that we all have differing ergonomics and one simple example is the fact that some people simply can not shoot holding the frame upright, while others can not not do it.. Other example is the shooting stile which both falls into ergonomics but also functionality: some people can not shoot butterfly while other are so comfortable with it.
> 
> And there is one thing more that falls into personal realm and it is pride of the slingshot maker and/or slingshot user so couple of purely technicaly unimportant details are important to the user so some personal simbolic language might come in, such as carving the frame, trying to mach contrasting colours of the frame and the rubbers, pictures, shiny details, beautiful pins and many other do show the pride of the owner. Realy, if hunters like to have beautifuly carved and ornamented guns, why we in the slingshot world would not have the right to have the same.
> 
> So, it seems that when the design of a slingshot is in focus we mostly shuttle from functional requirements, methodological approaches, personal ergonomics, and finaly, but with some people most importantly - personal preferences, trading off even the functionality to a given degree.
> 
> So my answer to the question: "does design matter?" is that maybe it does not matter in some general sense, but it does matter to us.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jazz





jazz said:


> Hi all,
> 
> "Design" for me always have a widest possible meaning: in case of cars, for example, it is not only the shape of the body, colour, shine etc. but interior also and even the smell of the interior, but also the engine, and all other parts and sistems that make the unity called "le car"; slinghsots is not any deifferent issue, so that "design" in slingshots for me means not ony the shape and the finish of the frame, but also rubbers, and the pouch, the attachment methods and many other small details, all fitting into wider meaning of "design".
> 
> However, in both of the above examples one thing, in my oppinion, is crucial for the "design" - and this is functionality - what is the point of the "sport design" of a car if the car is not a sports one?
> 
> In slinghsots there is also not one functionality but many and all of them directly stem from the purpose: target shooting, short range; target shooting, long range; can, lids, tiles, coconuts etc. bursting; plinking; power shooting (or whatever the name is); hunting birds, small game, medium game - animals, birds, fish.. All of these and other purposes impose a given functionality which we first have to achieve by the total design of the slingshot: it is then easier to shoose the frame, bands, pouch or that sistem which throws arrows (whatever the name is) etc. Even the colour of the slinghshot might be a direct result from a functionality: I do not suppose that a hunter would make a shiny, fluorescent frame and go after a difficult game.. but neither will someone who wants to show a bit off in a company of fellow shooters come up with a completely "unintersting" frame - or, vice versa, somebody just might come up with an "uninteresting" shooter but only, maybe, to leave an inpression - he/she better be a perfect shooter, then.
> 
> Still, various people have tried various methods: firstly, forked slingshots, secondly, single-forked slingshots or stickshots etc. and finaly no-fork, or bareback slingshots. Yeah, we should not forget pochless setups and the like.
> 
> And on top of that we all have differing ergonomics and one simple example is the fact that some people simply can not shoot holding the frame upright, while others can not not do it.. Other example is the shooting stile which both falls into ergonomics but also functionality: some people can not shoot butterfly while other are so comfortable with it.
> 
> And there is one thing more that falls into personal realm and it is pride of the slingshot maker and/or slingshot user so couple of purely technicaly unimportant details are important to the user so some personal simbolic language might come in, such as carving the frame, trying to mach contrasting colours of the frame and the rubbers, pictures, shiny details, beautiful pins and many other do show the pride of the owner. Realy, if hunters like to have beautifuly carved and ornamented guns, why we in the slingshot world would not have the right to have the same.
> 
> So, it seems that when the design of a slingshot is in focus we mostly shuttle from functional requirements, methodological approaches, personal ergonomics, and finaly, but with some people most importantly - personal preferences, trading off even the functionality to a given degree.
> 
> So my answer to the question: "does design matter?" is that maybe it does not matter in some general sense, but it does matter to us.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jazz


----------



## moongalba

Dear Jazz and all,

I find all of your replies to my question well constructed with intelligence and aforethought. I am pleased that you found the question of interest. Like any good work of art it deserves the best acclaim that one can give to it. There is obviously much merit in what has been said to my question, and much thought has gone into you answers, but I felt as a new boy on the block the question needed to be asked. It is evident that style, timber usage and much imagination has gone into the these beautiful works of art.

Being limited to the most basic of tools does not make me envious of your well stocked workshops, but it does encourage me to make the best of what I have.

Truly your workmanship are indeed works of art along side that of anything contemporary.

I congratulate all of you on the pain staking effort that goes into your creations

The old codger.


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## moongalba

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> Hi There Moongalba,
> 
> You are totally correct Sir.
> 
> However, a bad tradesman always blames his tools.
> 
> Therefore, so as to not ever be able to blame ones "tools", a good but inexpensive, such as Simple Shots Scout, Or Pocket Predator Target Hathcock.
> 
> Are an ideal way for a beginner to obtain their accuracy, before moving on to either making their own, or spending the big bucks on a custom job.
> 
> Oh, and I am maybe not too many years behind you also, and we just keep on keepin on.
> 
> Cheers Allan


----------



## moongalba

Dear Allan

Sorry that I haven been somewhat tardy in getting back to answering your letter. The problem was which to answer first, but I find that at 4am on this cool morning in Australia I can finally get down to it. After so many relies I can now understand why the fraternity is so keen on making such elaborate Slingshots. Not are they only wonderful works of art but also functional. Looking at the workshops of these experts of fine workmanship, I look sorrowfully at my limited supply of tools my father used some 70 years ago. However I must make the best with what I have. I will take you advice and purchase either a Simple Shot Scout or some other affordable Slingshot.

I have found that with the basic fork of a branch Slingshot I can get nearer to what I am aiming at by not sighting up first. Strange but true.

Thank you for you words of advice and I will follow them through.

Your friend

The Old Codger


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## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Wisely spoken Sir,

May I offer a bit more advice.

Watch a few, or only one required, of Mr Bill Hays video clips on accurate shooting.

Particularly IF you shoot as he does, like I do.

Although I have done it this way years before I saw his videos, and have progress now to aim as I draw, and release; all in around a second or less.

But having said that, baby step at first, and the power lost in taking time to aim; can be regained at a much later date, as ones confidence swells with KNOWN accuracy.

Best of luck for the future, mate.

Cheers Allan


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## CCHGN

Aussie Allan In Thailand said:


> Hi There Moongalba,
> 
> You are totally correct Sir.
> 
> However, a bad tradesman always blames his tools.
> 
> Therefore, so as to not ever be able to blame ones "tools", a good but inexpensive, such as Simple Shots Scout, Or Pocket Predator Target Hathcock.
> 
> Are an ideal way for a beginner to obtain their accuracy, before moving on to either making their own, or spending the big bucks on a custom job.
> 
> Oh, and I am maybe not too many years behind you also, and we just keep on keepin on.
> 
> Cheers Allan


I taught myself how to play guitar( well, when ever I found someone who could play, I'd beg,/threaten/pay/ co-orce them to show me just one thing and then I'd practice that until I mastered it. Over the years, that "one thing' became 1000 things, until tabulature was invented and that opened up the Universe), after I met an old black man who built banjos from long handled cast iron skillets, taught me how to play Cripple Creek on one. I was one who found guitar playing a passion, that you couldn't stop me from doing, no matter what.

My Dad finally bought me an old acoustic guitar and I swear the strings were 1" off the neck. I suffered with that old guitar with sore blistered fingers, yet determined to play, for years, cause I thought all guitars were like that. Course,when I got older and saw the slick new electic guitars, with the strings 1/16" off the neck, I knew the deal(and found I was super fast on them)..

Now, however, my main thing is, getting as many new players to stay with it as possible, I recommend a decent, middle of the road electric guitar, so it's easy on the fingers, easy to play, looks cool and sounds real good( you can make a medicore layer sounds good with some effects).

I imagine it's the same with slingshots.


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## moongalba

Allan

Loved the idea of the of the banjo and guitar as a metaphor regarding fancy and simple slingshots. Great thinking my friend.

Robert


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## moongalba

moongalba said:


> jazz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> "Design" for me always have a widest possible meaning: in case of cars, for example, it is not only the shape of the body, colour, shine etc. but interior also and even the smell of the interior, but also the engine, and all other parts and sistems that make the unity called "le car"; slinghsots is not any deifferent issue, so that "design" in slingshots for me means not ony the shape and the finish of the frame, but also rubbers, and the pouch, the attachment methods and many other small details, all fitting into wider meaning of "design".
> 
> However, in both of the above examples one thing, in my oppinion, is crucial for the "design" - and this is functionality - what is the point of the "sport design" of a car if the car is not a sports one?
> 
> In slinghsots there is also not one functionality but many and all of them directly stem from the purpose: target shooting, short range; target shooting, long range; can, lids, tiles, coconuts etc. bursting; plinking; power shooting (or whatever the name is); hunting birds, small game, medium game - animals, birds, fish.. All of these and other purposes impose a given functionality which we first have to achieve by the total design of the slingshot: it is then easier to shoose the frame, bands, pouch or that sistem which throws arrows (whatever the name is) etc. Even the colour of the slinghshot might be a direct result from a functionality: I do not suppose that a hunter would make a shiny, fluorescent frame and go after a difficult game.. but neither will someone who wants to show a bit off in a company of fellow shooters come up with a completely "unintersting" frame - or, vice versa, somebody just might come up with an "uninteresting" shooter but only, maybe, to leave an inpression - he/she better be a perfect shooter, then.
> 
> Still, various people have tried various methods: firstly, forked slingshots, secondly, single-forked slingshots or stickshots etc. and finaly no-fork, or bareback slingshots. Yeah, we should not forget pochless setups and the like.
> 
> And on top of that we all have differing ergonomics and one simple example is the fact that some people simply can not shoot holding the frame upright, while others can not not do it.. Other example is the shooting stile which both falls into ergonomics but also functionality: some people can not shoot butterfly while other are so comfortable with it.
> 
> And there is one thing more that falls into personal realm and it is pride of the slingshot maker and/or slingshot user so couple of purely technicaly unimportant details are important to the user so some personal simbolic language might come in, such as carving the frame, trying to mach contrasting colours of the frame and the rubbers, pictures, shiny details, beautiful pins and many other do show the pride of the owner. Realy, if hunters like to have beautifuly carved and ornamented guns, why we in the slingshot world would not have the right to have the same.
> 
> So, it seems that when the design of a slingshot is in focus we mostly shuttle from functional requirements, methodological approaches, personal ergonomics, and finaly, but with some people most importantly - personal preferences, trading off even the functionality to a given degree.
> 
> So my answer to the question: "does design matter?" is that maybe it does not matter in some general sense, but it does matter to us.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jazz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> jazz said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> "Design" for me always have a widest possible meaning: in case of cars, for example, it is not only the shape of the body, colour, shine etc. but interior also and even the smell of the interior, but also the engine, and all other parts and sistems that make the unity called "le car"; slinghsots is not any deifferent issue, so that "design" in slingshots for me means not ony the shape and the finish of the frame, but also rubbers, and the pouch, the attachment methods and many other small details, all fitting into wider meaning of "design".
> 
> However, in both of the above examples one thing, in my oppinion, is crucial for the "design" - and this is functionality - what is the point of the "sport design" of a car if the car is not a sports one?
> 
> In slinghsots there is also not one functionality but many and all of them directly stem from the purpose: target shooting, short range; target shooting, long range; can, lids, tiles, coconuts etc. bursting; plinking; power shooting (or whatever the name is); hunting birds, small game, medium game - animals, birds, fish.. All of these and other purposes impose a given functionality which we first have to achieve by the total design of the slingshot: it is then easier to shoose the frame, bands, pouch or that sistem which throws arrows (whatever the name is) etc. Even the colour of the slinghshot might be a direct result from a functionality: I do not suppose that a hunter would make a shiny, fluorescent frame and go after a difficult game.. but neither will someone who wants to show a bit off in a company of fellow shooters come up with a completely "unintersting" frame - or, vice versa, somebody just might come up with an "uninteresting" shooter but only, maybe, to leave an inpression - he/she better be a perfect shooter, then.
> 
> Still, various people have tried various methods: firstly, forked slingshots, secondly, single-forked slingshots or stickshots etc. and finaly no-fork, or bareback slingshots. Yeah, we should not forget pochless setups and the like.
> 
> And on top of that we all have differing ergonomics and one simple example is the fact that some people simply can not shoot holding the frame upright, while others can not not do it.. Other example is the shooting stile which both falls into ergonomics but also functionality: some people can not shoot butterfly while other are so comfortable with it.
> 
> And there is one thing more that falls into personal realm and it is pride of the slingshot maker and/or slingshot user so couple of purely technicaly unimportant details are important to the user so some personal simbolic language might come in, such as carving the frame, trying to mach contrasting colours of the frame and the rubbers, pictures, shiny details, beautiful pins and many other do show the pride of the owner. Realy, if hunters like to have beautifuly carved and ornamented guns, why we in the slingshot world would not have the right to have the same.
> 
> So, it seems that when the design of a slingshot is in focus we mostly shuttle from functional requirements, methodological approaches, personal ergonomics, and finaly, but with some people most importantly - personal preferences, trading off even the functionality to a given degree.
> 
> So my answer to the question: "does design matter?" is that maybe it does not matter in some general sense, but it does matter to us.
> 
> cheers,
> 
> jazz
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

Dear Jazz,

Great write up and loved reading all of it. You have a way with words and phrase's which say to me "Blow the expense go and buy a beautifully crafted Slingshot". I am totally useless at making such masterpieces and so would have to rely one some else to have me choose one of theirs.

Do not forget it was only a question I asked and not pitting one against the other. To say that one actress is lovely to look at and another not so lovely, does not mean that both are not good actors. I suppose it all depends on what part they play in the viewers life. The question got a TOP mark so I am pleased with that.

Thank you again for your remarks.

Robert (Moongalba or The Old Codger)


----------



## Aussie Allan In Thailand

Totally agreed Robert.

When it comes to making; I am about as talented as a cockroach.

Hence spending alot of $ on Customs from a couple of absolutely top makers.

No names here though, although I think they in my signature block.

Lord am I dumb most days.

BUT although these will be shot.

Admittedly, they will be principally show off pieces of what true craftsmen, and artists, can make.

Cheers Allan


----------



## HarryBee

It's fine to have a lot of top-notch and exotic slingshots but I have never had the collecting bug ( that's my loss ). But I,ve tried various types of ergo shooters, shooting OTT , TTF, OTF and anything else I could find. Finally I went shooting with one of the natural forks I started with and guess what? ( you know, don,t you? ). I shot just as well with it ! It's light, comfortable in the hand and pocket, so its naturals for me now.


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## moongalba

Harry Bee

Thank you my friend for you comments. These slingshots , which are works of art in their own right whether you purchase one or are the creator of one, are no different to a Rembrandt or Turner a Constable painting. It is the gratification of being the owner of one of the masters works. One does not boast of owning such a masterpiece, but the pleasure one gets from either looking at or holding and using such a treasure.

I have to be content with looking at a beautifully crafted Slingshot because I cannot afford to purchase one. I do not envy any gifted slingshot creator, for they are beautiful creations. and their creator must equally be as proud of their accomplishment. Farmer John once said after making a slingshot "This will go into my collection". It may never be used but will be handled gently and admired as one would a beautiful woman who will remain untarnished by rough usage.

Folks as the likes of you and I will always turn back to that which was our first love.

If you get the chance see if you can find a poem called "The Touch Of The Masters Hand" and you will see what I mean. Just type in the title.‎

My best to you

The Old Codger‎

My regards to you Harry

The Old Codger.


----------

