# Tubes and hand slaps galore!



## Diocletian (Dec 7, 2018)

Hey,

Getting into tubes lately. Love em!

However, I get unbearable handslaps whenever I use them in a looped configuration. I know, I know - "gotta match ammo to bands bro!" - but unless 180 grains (11.5 grams) is too light for double 2040, this statement holds no merit - in this case.

In fact I find that the only way to reduce hand slaps is to use single 1745 with 180 grain ammo (M10 hexnuts). I absolutely love this setup, but I would like some more speed. Looped 1842 would be nice, but it hurts just thinking about the slaps!

I use an Agile Toucan, a looped tube shooter from Dankung.

It might be the weather, so I ordered cold resistant 1842 and 1745 (not here yet).
It might be the pouch is to heavy, so I ordered kangaroo leather (waiting). In case anyone else has this problem I'll report back when it's all here.

Anything else that might cure this? I'd love to use loops without having to get a new frame.


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## RenegadeShooter (Sep 30, 2018)

Wear a glove.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Try:

- adjusting your tube length 1/4" to 3/8" shorter or longer.

- leaning forks forward or backward a bit when shooting

Sometimes a small adjustment can change the recoil timing so your fingers are no longer the target. I recently had to change a set of .40mm flatbands to .50mm on a frame because of handslaps. The same .40mm were fine on other frames.


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## SLINGDUDE (Aug 15, 2018)

What is your draw length and band elongation factor? I would suggest starting by making small adjustments to your band length, as northerner mentioned.

Also, maybe try some psuedo tapers instead of full loops?


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## poekoelan (Jan 1, 2013)

I've used 1842 for a long time to shoot .44 lead and 3/8 hex nuts. It's one of my favorites. I think the frame you are describing is a dankung type? If so, then my solution probably won't work. But I can tell you that I got rid of 95pct of all hand slap by changing the way I rig my bands. I was having a terrible problem. Didn't matter how heavy my ammo was. But once I started rigging my forks to be shot against the ties, almost all hand slap went away. Even with light ammo.

If you decide to give this a try, it will be much easier to do using two singles per side, rather than a a full loop as is usually done with small tubes.


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## andypandy1 (Apr 8, 2016)

Try Pseudotaper


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## Cjw (Nov 1, 2012)

Been shooting looped 20/40s with 3/8 steel on my SPS's and never had hand slap. Been shooting this set up for 4 years.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro


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## Diocletian (Dec 7, 2018)

@Northerner,
Thanks, I'll try that. I figure an active flip would help as well.
@Slingdude,
Full butterfly, 150 cm. Elongation about 5x, sometimes 5.5
@poekoelan,
Yeah, it's a dankung. I'm not 100% sure what 'against the ties' would mean? Sounds interesting. Do you shoot M8 with looped 1842? I was planning to use singles until I sort out the slaps.

I've been meaning to try a pseudo taper, but I figure more speed = harder slap.


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## Ukprelude (Apr 17, 2016)

I've had the same problem with a frame or 2 over the years mate and i think you're right about the pouch, sometimes no matter how well you match the ammo with the bands you still get the slaps. I used to use thin leather pouches and after lots of changing bands to try eliminate slaps it donned on me that maybe the pouch was the problem, I changed to hth's microfiber pouches (not the tiny chinese ones) and now hand slaps are a thing of the past for me 

Hope this helps

Sent from my SM-G960F using Tapatalk


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

I think your problem is related to your draw length. Expect more performance!

2040s may work well as full loops with your ammo drawn to 75 cm, but there is twice as much potential energy at 150 cm of draw - given the same 5x stretch.

So, available option include looped 2040s at 4x stretch (less energy and maybe less or no handslap), and tapered 1745s (perhaps adding 10 cm to the single tube length so you have 10 cm double and 20 cm of single relaxed length to start). I'm guessing 1842 psuedo-tapered with 12 cm double and 18 cm single sections might provide similar performance.

It is a process of trial and error, with more that one correct solution.

I hope you enjoy the effort and get the results you desire!



Diocletian said:


> @Northerner,
> Thanks, I'll try that. I figure an active flip would help as well.
> @Slingdude,
> Full butterfly, 150 cm. Elongation about 5x, sometimes 5.5
> ...


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

Diocletian said:


> @Northerner,
> Thanks, I'll try that. I figure an active flip would help as well.
> @Slingdude,
> Full butterfly, 150 cm. Elongation about 5x, sometimes 5.5
> ...


Wow, that's a long draw length. You can get nice speed with less draw weight than us short-drawing shooters. Maybe try the 2040 with a pseudo-taper at 35/65 to 50/50 split. .You could also try a mild pseudo-taper with the 1745 (25/75). Please keep us updated.

As was mentioned,you can also try tying the tubes on like flatbands rather than using the fork holes. This would give the tubes a different flight over the forks. You can tie down singles and doubles the same.


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## mattwalt (Jan 5, 2017)

Yeah - I agree with Kawkan - think you're well overpowered for your drawlength... Go with pseudo's with 2040 or even singles. Also look at your pouch - get maybe a nice light microfibre one - or the roots when you get them.


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## Diocletian (Dec 7, 2018)

Awesome input! Pseudo tapers it is!

I'll report back when I get the new tubes + roo pouches. Should be a week and a half or so.


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## Ibojoe (Mar 13, 2016)

KawKan said:


> I think your problem is related to your draw length. Expect more performance!
> 2040s may work well as full loops with your ammo drawn to 75 cm, but there is twice as much potential energy at 150 cm of draw - given the same 5x stretch.
> So, available option include looped 2040s at 4x stretch (less energy and maybe less or no handslap), and tapered 1745s (perhaps adding 10 cm to the single tube length so you have 10 cm double and 20 cm of single relaxed length to start). I'm guessing 1842 psuedo-tapered with 12 cm double and 18 cm single sections might provide similar performance.
> It is a process of trial and error, with more that one correct solution.
> ...


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## ForkLess (Aug 15, 2018)

RenegadeShooter said:


> Wear a glove.


Hmm?? maybe tubes are better for winter shooting.


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## poekoelan (Jan 1, 2013)

Diocletian, shooting against the ties would be like taking a slingshot that is banded up for over the top style. Now turn the frame around and shoot it, that is pulling against the ties. Of course you have to take some extra measures to make sure your bands don't slip. Been shooting this way for years, ever since I stumbled upon it. Almost zero hand slap no matter the weight of the ammo.


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## Diocletian (Dec 7, 2018)

Interesting! Never heard of that before 

What kinda band life can be expected from 1/3 pseudos? I use that stretchy Dankung ribbon material for tying everything, but I've heard good things about 1745 cuffs as well. I've heard anything from apx 200 to 500 shots, or more.


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## poekoelan (Jan 1, 2013)

Personally I gave up on pseudo tapers long time ago due to short band life. For me, as far as longevity goes, they were on par with tapered theraband but more difficult to make.


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## Northerner (Nov 9, 2010)

I've been using pseudo-tapers on my tuber frames for lots of years. I get short life if I only tie with cotton string. I get slippage if I only use cuffs. I find that cuffs with ties work best. Tube life is good but I haven't done an actual count or compared to flats. The tapers can be a bit frustrating to make. I always try to get the tube curl going the same way and it sometimes it takes a few tries.


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## SlingNerd (Mar 15, 2017)

Northerner said:


> I've been using pseudo-tapers on my tuber frames for lots of years. I get short life if I only tie with cotton string. I get slippage if I only use cuffs. I find that cuffs with ties work best. Tube life is good but I haven't done an actual count or compared to flats. The tapers can be a bit frustrating to make. I always try to get the tube curl going the same way and it sometimes it takes a few tries.


Clean rigs, Northerner!


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## Diocletian (Dec 7, 2018)

Good news and bad news!

The good: hardly any handslap with the Axiom Ocularis and single strand 1745 in butterfly with M8 hex. Even clay ammo shoots quite well! This makes for a very versatile and pain free setup. It was -2 Celsius outside and I was using quite a heavy pouch. Nice!

The bad: no DK anti-cold tubes yet. I figure I'll test them in the Chinese Tubes thread when they arrive.


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## SLINGDUDE (Aug 15, 2018)

Glad you found something that is working better for you.


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## Thwap (Oct 17, 2018)

I shot single, looped and psuedos long draw for months. To get the speed i wanted i was just about breaking my index finger! I found the way of the flip. With practice there are only upsides. Less or no handslap(now i sometimes get tricep slap with tubes amd tabs, ott.)The bands dont beat themselves up so much on frame(or finger) thus lasting longer. The tubes or bands tend to tangle less, allowing more shooting!
Also, pouch weight is a HUGE contributor as others have said.


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## Ridge Runner (Dec 24, 2018)

I am having a tough time understanding the benefot of pseudotaper tube arrangements when compared to simply shortening a single band a bit.

Anyone got a clear handle on this?


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## PhrednurHead (Dec 29, 2018)

Northerner said:


> I've been using pseudo-tapers on my tuber frames for lots of years. I get short life if I only tie with cotton string. I get slippage if I only use cuffs. I find that cuffs with ties work best. Tube life is good but I haven't done an actual count or compared to flats. The tapers can be a bit frustrating to make. I always try to get the tube curl going the same way and it sometimes it takes a few tries.


I have found that if you take the same size tube that you are shooting and use it for your cuffs and double the cuffs one on top of the other they hold with out slipping and you get better life than using cuff and tie or just ties.


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## raventree78 (Apr 20, 2016)

Ridge Runner said:


> I am having a tough time understanding the benefot of pseudotaper tube arrangements when compared to simply shortening a single band a bit.
> 
> Anyone got a clear handle on this?


When you cut tapered flat bands you attach the wide end (the one with more rubber) to the frame and the thin end to the pouch. I am not sure the physics of how tapers work just know they do. Like wise a pseudo tapered tube set has more rubber at the fork end and less at the pouch end. I think it may have something to do with progressive acceleration and increasing pull on the ammo as thicker and thicker rubber acts on it. Hope this helps


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

Ridge Runner said:


> I am having a tough time understanding the benefot of pseudotaper tube arrangements when compared to simply shortening a single band a bit.
> 
> Anyone got a clear handle on this?


I'll take a shot at this, although it's all my opinion and your mileage may vary.

I use both methods of fine tuning tubes that you mention - changing the length of single tubes and building tapers. Both work.

From a given relaxed length of tube, you can get more speed by shortening it (at the cost of band life) or less speed (and maybe less hand slap) with a slightly longer length.

The big difference with tapers, is that by adding tubing to the double section, you add potential energy. without changing the material or relaxed length. Add a little more tube for a little more energy, or a lot for bigger boost. And, you still have the option of increasing or decreasing the overall length, as you would with singles. The bigger the looped section, the more the single section will stretch, and the shorter your band life will be. My sweet spot is usually when the looped section is 1/4 to 1/3 of the total relaxed length. If I need more kick than that, I tend to look for a heavier band. But the options for fine tuning are really great!


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