# BB ammo philosophy



## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

I love shooting BBs, yes, the tiny 4.5mm .177 bb's. I love shooting them so much...I wrote an big blog post about it:

Link Removed.

The gist is..and we know...light bands, light pouch, and small frames. 

Take a gander if you want to read it, but we all know where the ammo ends up...down range and inside of a beer can.


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## bigron (Nov 29, 2012)

very cool Eric,and informative


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## Cluaranach (Feb 25, 2015)

Thanks for sharing your experiences and philosophy. Excellent information.


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## JTslinger (Jan 26, 2015)

Very nice and informative post.


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## Imperial (Feb 9, 2011)

i agree with a lot of what you wrote, ive been through some of it. i dont like shooting the copper ones, i like the plain steel ones just mainly for the fact that i see them better. as a note, from my experience, if anyone is going to use a pouch with a magnet to shoot the .177 b.b.s, make sure its steel and not copper. earlier, i was enjoying shooting some soft air ammo at either .20 or .25 gram weight. tbb cut to 3/8 straight and about 6 1/2 length, kangaroo pouch, no center hole. ive even messed with .22 round ball air gun b.b.s for pellet guns/rifles.


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## Btoon84 (Nov 22, 2011)

BB's are tons of fun, very affordable ammo and I feel like I can blast em' everywhere without much worry of damaging my surroundings too much  I've been on the BB train for a looong time now. Nice write-up.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

I hate to do this, but.... Linking to your commercial website in the general areas of the Forum is advertising. and a rules violation.

You may repost the article in your SSF Blog, or in the opening paragraph or somewhere that is not your commercial website.


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

Henry in Panama said:


> I hate to do this, but.... Linking to your commercial website in the general areas of the Forum is advertising. and a rules violation.
> 
> You may repost the article in your SSF Blog, or in the opening paragraph or somewhere that is not your commercial website.


Bah! I didn't even think of this. I forgot I didn't sign up for a vendor account this month. Sorry Henry, I'll pay for it this afternoon so that it won't have to be removed.


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## reset (Apr 13, 2013)

Btoon84 said:


> BB's are tons of fun, very affordable ammo and I feel like I can blast em' everywhere without much worry of damaging my surroundings too much  I've been on the BB train for a looong time now. Nice write-up.


Btoon your where i got the idea to try .177's out in the first place especially after i had heard how accurate you are with them. And now after a whole year and some im hooked. Its nearly all i shoot and lends itself really well to PFS shooting.

I agree with Imperial, silver ones are the way to go for visability.

Metro. Try getting the .177's at Cabellas or some hunting/sporting goods store cause $19 is more than i pay for 6000. Here i got them for $12. I usually use TBG at 7/16 width. Makes them zip real good and a flat trajectory of at least my estimate of 60 feet.


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## Henry the Hermit (Jun 2, 2010)

My BB shooters throw them at 300+ fps. My Daisy Red Ryder sends them downrange at 280. So exercise the same caution you would when shooting a BB gun.


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Okay that does it. I'm gonna order some bb's from Cabela's and start shooting... 3/8th straight TBG, right?


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

Yeah I love shooting BB"S as well..small alloy frame Uni-Shot...very small leather pouch..thera band blue ..straight cut 1/2" wide...6 1/2 "long

have some pretty good zip.....I will try some Thera band Black next.....I am shooting indoor @25 feet.....killing a soda can....AKAOldmiser

PS: oh yeah check out e-bay for good deals on bb's


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

reset said:


> Btoon84 said:
> 
> 
> > BB's are tons of fun, very affordable ammo and I feel like I can blast em' everywhere without much worry of damaging my surroundings too much  I've been on the BB train for a looong time now. Nice write-up.
> ...


The Canadian Tire and Walmart is much closer to me than Cabelas. For the extra $3-4, its ok


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

Due to the fact that I'm set in a "long draw" point of view, Thera-gold just seems like ridiculous overkill... Those of you who use gold for bbs, is it because of longevity that you do so?? I mean 7/16" gold is somethin i'd shoot 3/8 steel with, and at a pretty good rate! As light as bbs are, you could ,just as easily suggest that shootin them with a long draw is overkill... It IS!!! Good grief!! The few times that I have tried, I have always ended up settling with a shorter draw. (to the shoulder, or so) At full butterfly, with only like, 1/2"- 9/16" thera-black and one of E-shot's sleek little pouches, things are moving so fast that by the time the pouch tickles past your cheek, it's like breaking the "sound barrier! hahaha It's hard to keep your wits about you! Sounds silly, but messin with bbs has brought me more anxious moments than bare-back butter-flippin' 3/8ths steel ever has... Where exactly am I going with all this?? Man, I don't know. just sharing some thoughts. Incomplete and trivial as usual, but 7/16 or 3/8 gold still sounds like a lot of rubber. At any draw.. with this payload(The weight of the pouch is probably more significant factor in the math) Sorry guys... I have so little experience with this. I'm really not SAYING anything...........

Except..... To please "Be sure to have an extra pair of under-shorts in your shooting bag, if ever you find the need to explore full draw "butter-flippin" them .117's!" 

Just a mess of questions really,

Need to find that article, I guess, huh! :screwy:

As much time and info that you've shared with us, here on the forum?

I didn't even know you sold bb's!

Happy Easter time, Mr.Eric, and all ya pouch pinchers readin!


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

*Here is the info! Again, apologies for the link redirect, completely forgot about the rules!*

Just to be clear, I am talking about the tiny ones, the .177 (4.5mm) kind, not the larger kind. It is pretty common to call anything steel and round a BB but really, a TRUE BB is .177 calibre and has its roots in shot gun shell ammo. I am going to go through why I like shooting them and a few of my favourite band measurements so you can enjoy this inexpensive, addictive, fire-and-forget ammo.

*1. Cost*



One of the biggest (or smallest if you prefer) reasons why I love BB's is the cost. At the time of this article, a bottle of Copperhead 6000 ct BBs is about $16.99 Canadian. After taxes (here in Manitoba) that's just shy of $19 for 6000 rounds. That's 1/3 of cent per round. Yes, a FRACTION of a single cent per round. You can understand why I call these fire-and-forget ammo.

Don't want 6000? They also come in 1600 ct bottles, which equates to 1 cent per round. Considering we don't even have pennies anymore, 1 cent per round is VERY affordable.

I was pretty aggressive on shooting these little guys all spring, summer and fall, and even gave away a whole bunch and only managed to make my way through about 3/4 of a 6000 rounds.

*2. Band life*

A typically BB weighs in at 5.1 grains, this equates to nearly nothing when it comes to slingshot ballistics calculations. To properly throw a bb, extremely light weight bands and a pouch combination has to be used. As such, light weight bands that throw BBs typically last an extremely long time compared to the mere 100's of shots you get with most other types of bandsets. A BB can travel in excess of 250 ft/s, so even at a standard tournament distance of 33ft (10m), a BB will travel in a very flat trajectory.

BB pouches have to be light weight and sized correctly. I found a laminated kangaroo/cowhide was the best combination, at least to date. The kangaroo leather combined with a thin garment thickness cowhide provided the strength of kangaroo leather (the side touching the ammo) and the soft grip of cowhide (on the finger side). I laminate my leathers together with Barge cement, which is a a shoe repair contact adhesive.

*I cut my pouches at 10mm wide x 50mm long, with a 2mm center hole. *

Since discovering the joys of shooting BBs, I've done a lot of testing in the types of bands. Here are the combinations that work well. When I write active length, for those who don't know, it is the measurement of one of the sides of the bands from the pouch tie to the frame tie. These calculations are based on a 32″ draw length, so when you go and cut your own bands, you can scale up or down based on your draw length.

*Dankung 1632 tubing @ 7″ active length (based on a 32″ draw length)*

I found that the 1632 was actually a but stiffer than the pure amber latex tubing, so it was almost too heavy for BB's hence the extra inch of length to decrease the snappiness of the bands.










*Pure latex .125 Amber tubing @ 6″ active length *

This is one of my favourite slingshot rubber in general, let alone for bbs. The pure latex has very good elastic properties and retains a very comfortable 500-600% elongation rate before beginning to show signs of stress.










*Theraband Gold @ .25″ wide x 7″ active length*

TBG is known as a the 'gold' standard for slingshot rubbers, fast, snappy and long lasting due to its additives. It's almost too much for BBs, but at very thin widths, it'll work great. The thin strips excel on TTF frames.










*Theraband Black @ .5″ wide x 7.5″ active length*

TBB is a VERY zippy band set, again, topping out at .5″ wide since it is a very fast retracting rubber. The biggest downside to TBB is it's tendency to tear if cut incorrectly. I've had a set of TBB BB bands last for nearly solid a month of shooting nearly everyday.

*







*

*Theraband Blue @ .65″ wide x 7″ active length (or shorter if you want REAL fast speed)*

TB Blue is my favourite flat band BB rubber. For some reason, the incredibly light draw and the extreme speeds from that light draw is satisfying and wholesome. While it is the thinnest of the Therabands, TB Blue last just as long as TB Black, and will likely tear near the pouch tie if the bands are taken care of. Unfortunately, since it is so thin, it will tangle up the most after release, which can be annoying.










*3. Frame Design*

Now that we've discussed the KINDS of rubber that throw BBs well, this section will deal with frame design. Most of the frames uses as examples in the band life section where quite small (with except of the olive natural fork). This is not a coincident, BB's are so light, the tips of the slingshot do not need to support the extreme pressures of a double layer TB Gold frame would need to. BB frames are often small, palm size and as such, pocket sized.

*PFS (pickle fork shooters)*

PFS bbs shooters are awesome, it takes all the fun of shooting a PFS and removes the FEAR of shooting a PFS. PFS novice shooters often get a little overwhelmed with the lack of a fork gap, but when shooting BBs, fork hits are much less severe. The light weight bands are perfect for practicing on a PFS.










*OTT (over the top) *

Frames designed with OTT band tips make for fantastic BB shooters. Again, using the advantage of a light weight band set, small pouch design and small diameter ammo, there very little gap needed to make it work. Unlike a PFS, there is room for the pouch to clear the forks, but since the pouch is so small, even a mere 1″ is enough.










*TTF (Through the Fork) *

Frames with TTF bands are toted to be the most accurate, I always say the most accurate slingshot is the one you have with you. Regardless, TTF slingshots with BB bands don't really receive the benefits that larger slingshots with wider bands configured with TTF. Full size TTF frames, especially with flat bands, project ammo in a more accurate fashion because the bands follow a more natural path, remaining flat throughout the bands retraction. OTT bands, typically need to twist a bit before letting go of the ammo. That being said&#8230;since BB bands (flat bands) are so narrow, they don't receive the same benefit as wider, full size bandsets get.

That was a long winded way of saying that TTF and OTT band configurations perform nearly the same, and are just as accurate as each other. The only downside to TTF shooting is that your sight picture and aiming point maybe below the frame (when shooting sideways, this isn't the case when shooting upright). Luckily, as previously discussed, BB frames are typically smaller, so the sight picture typically remains open.



*Leather Tabbed Bands*

When using leather tabs for BBs, it's the same solution as the pouch, strong, but thin leather. The leather has to follow through with the rubber to avoid skewing its trajectory. OTT or TTF, leather tabs offer a lot of advantages and disadvantages. Advantages include decreased band friction on the frame thus leading to extended band life, consistent band length and decreased rubber consumption. Disadvantages include increased difficulty making the band set (accurate length is crucial), possible differential leather stretching and premature leather breakage.





*4. Portability*

Another factor in choosing to shoot BBs most of the time is the portability. Not only are the frames smaller and easier to conceal and carry, but a hand full of BB is potentially 100's of rounds. I usually keep a couple of Altoids tins full of BBs so I can throw them in a bag while on vacation or driving around and have plenty of ammo to shoot and share. Heck, keeping two, even three BB shooters in the range bag is a great way to introduce people to shooting slingshots.

A pocket full of BBs can keep you busy for hours if you wish, or convert a walk in the woods into a literal cornucopia of target opportunities. Downside is if you forget you have a pocket full of BB's, your dryer is going to make a lot of noise for next few cycles.

*tip, use a small neo-magnet to keep them in check in your pocket. Clumping IS your friend.



*5. Training*

Shooting BBs is great training for the eventual time when you want to move up to larger ammo or train for an upcoming tournament. Shooting BBs is challenging because the light weight bands can be easily misaligned or accidental frame cant could occur, there is very little feed back on the frame's squareness to the band set. Ideally, the bands and the frame form a perfect isosceles triangle. Shooting with light weight bands forces the shooter to pay attention to their form, their frame position, frame grip and pouch draw and release. Essentially, it trains all aspects of proper slingshot shooting form.

Once you get the hang of the band's weight and the smaller scale pouch, when you move up to a larger frame with larger ammo, everything should be much easier. You gotta walk before you run right? Well, in this case, you gotta shoot BBs before big 1/2″ cannon balls.


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## quarterinmynose (Jan 21, 2012)

BBs! Yeah, gold seems a bit much. Black or blue(maybe thin strips of silver) is all you need to get these things screaming. That extra rubber is just more weight to propel when your ammo is so light.

Those shooters look great Metro!


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## oldmiser (Jan 22, 2014)

What a great review my friend..Many SSF members should enjoy the read of this....As for my self love the thera band blue..I have now just went with the theraband black...1/2" wide by 6 1/2 long tiny deer hide pouch(no center hole)..Talk about zip....I am sure well into the 200fps zone....punch's right thru a soda can...

I am shooting indoors & only have 20 feet to work with...Thanks Again Erick for the review.>~AKAOldmiser


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## carboncopy (Jan 14, 2014)

Thank you for this great write up!

Will for sure try these BB's out in the near future!


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

Nice, Eric! Great survey/introduction to a popular topic very much in need of this kind of comprehensive reference info. You've done a really good job of laying out some very useful "start up" guidelines, and insights that should save folks a lot of time, money, and futzzing around.if they're paying attention.

I have said this before, but I really am envious of how well you are able to present your Ideas. Whether it's a sales pitch, how-to, or an article of technical theory, I am always coming away from your posts feeling entertained, and with a better understanding of the subject. When familiar with your subject, I find that your insights most often reinforce and/or support my own understandings. I'm not always as attracted to certain frame styles and features, but I appreciate the attention you tend to give these things, All in all, I feel you've applied a sophisticated mind to the world of contemporary slingshots and have dedicated a great measure of time to the sport, and you've done so with your eyes and mind wide open!

It can be tough, looking to forums for solid, dependable answers. A person must always remember to consider the source. You're one of a few members that has my complete confidence. At least until you totally screw something up, I guess... :neener: Thanks a ton, for sharing


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## Dayhiker (Mar 13, 2010)

Eric, that was a great tutorial. Thanks man! I have two bb shooters at present, one from A+ Slingshots and one from Bill Hayes. I have been shooting 3/8 steel with them, though. I also have some TBB and some light weight leather. I ended up ordering bb's from Amazon, cuz it was cheaper than Cabella's and not copper-coated, for better visibility. Looks like when the bb's come in, I'm in business. :cookie: Thanks again... and love your forks.


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## Metropolicity (Aug 22, 2013)

Imperial said:


> i agree with a lot of what you wrote, ive been through some of it. i dont like shooting the copper ones, i like the plain steel ones just mainly for the fact that i see them better. as a note, from my experience, if anyone is going to use a pouch with a magnet to shoot the .177 b.b.s, make sure its steel and not copper. earlier, i was enjoying shooting some soft air ammo at either .20 or .25 gram weight. tbb cut to 3/8 straight and about 6 1/2 length, kangaroo pouch, no center hole. ive even messed with .22 round ball air gun b.b.s for pellet guns/rifles.


Thanks Imp! I have these numbers kicking around in my head for a while now and I have been shooting outdoors a lot in the last week since the winter broke into spring. I was able to finally confirm my thereband black numbers. I can't find non-copper coated ones in town and I am lazy to get them shipped to me (I know...kind of counter to the norm). The only problem I've had with copper coated ones is that they are very susceptible to rust, so any amount of moisture or extended outdoor contact will cause them to have a light coat of a the brown death on the outside. if and when I find some non coated ones, I'll pick up a bottle or two.

I also have tried the plastic pellets, but I found that they needed even LIGHTER bands becuase once they reach a certain speed, they'll go....sideways, literally. I think it has to do with the speed/weight/wind resistance factors, but all I know is that if I draw too far with some amber tubing, they'll curve like a banana.



quarterinmynose said:


> BBs! Yeah, gold seems a bit much. Black or blue(maybe thin strips of silver) is all you need to get these things screaming. That extra rubber is just more weight to propel when your ammo is so light.
> 
> Those shooters look great Metro!


I hate silver...I hate it so much. It tears so easily and it gets all gummy and dirty so fast. I have a whole wack of thin cut gold from Nathan when he was giving boxes of off cuts from his die cut bands, I figured it couldn't hurt to try, so that's where my numbers came from.



Lee Silva said:


> Nice, Eric! Great survey/introduction to a popular topic very much in need of this kind of comprehensive reference info. You've done a really good job of laying out some very useful "start up" guidelines, and insights that should save folks a lot of time, money, and futzzing around.if they're paying attention.
> 
> I have said this before, but I really am envious of how well you are able to present your Ideas. Whether it's a sales pitch, how-to, or an article of technical theory, I am always coming away from your posts feeling entertained, and with a better understanding of the subject. When familiar with your subject, I find that your insights most often reinforce and/or support my own understandings. I'm not always as attracted to certain frame styles and features, but I appreciate the attention you tend to give these things, All in all, I feel you've applied a sophisticated mind to the world of contemporary slingshots and have dedicated a great measure of time to the sport, and you've done so with your eyes and mind wide open!
> 
> It can be tough, looking to forums for solid, dependable answers. A person must always remember to consider the source. You're one of a few members that has my complete confidence. At least until you totally screw something up, I guess... :neener: Thanks a ton, for sharing


I come from an information/marketing/design background where I am constantly attempting to explain and present large ideas that often have little grounding beyond a concept The key, I found, is just write how you would explain it to your buddy who you are REALLY excited to share it with, like you are trying to get them to come out and play when you have a new toy. This wasn't intended to be a sales pitch by any means (and I am pretty sure you weren't saying it was) but I love these little things so much and I see posts about people wanting to shoot them and the answers are always different. I figured, a slightly more comprehensive 'guide' would at least get the guys going. I mean..c'mon a 1/4 or a 1/3 of a CENT per round!? They should be flying at targets every hour of every day.



Dayhiker said:


> Eric, that was a great tutorial. Thanks man! I have two bb shooters at present, one from A+ Slingshots and one from Bill Hayes. I have been shooting 3/8 steel with them, though. I also have some TBB and some light weight leather. I ended up ordering bb's from Amazon, cuz it was cheaper than Cabella's and not copper-coated, for better visibility. Looks like when the bb's come in, I'm in business. :cookie: Thanks again... and love your forks.


Thanks Dayhiker! a legend like yourself, you've must come across many designs, so a vote from you is certainly a vote of confidence for me.

I have occasionally, for fun, thrown some 3/8 with my bb bands and if you want to talk...visual ammo path...that's how you do it  You could almost throw it faster! HAHA


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## AZshooter (May 1, 2011)

Nice work, Eric...Your efforts are appreciated...Great slingshots for lightweight ammo...The BEST price on ZINC PLATED BB`s I`ve found so far ( on line ) is WALMART....$9.47 for 6000 ZINC PLATED steel...FREE SHIPPING on orders over $50 - To your front door- If you are planning to order from WALMART you could include a small order of BB`s ( 6000 ) and get the free shipping to your front door...Their service is very good...I got my computer from them...Phil


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## Tentacle Toast (Jan 17, 2013)

You make some of the nicest bb shooters on the block, Metro...


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## AZshooter (May 1, 2011)

Another online source for ammo could be ACADEMY SPORTS AND OUTDOORS....$7.99 for 6000 ct Daisy zinc coated steel....For Limited time...Free Shipping on $39 order...I believe they accept PayPal ITEM- 990060-444...SKU#: 01591 1100....PHIL


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## Lee Silva (Feb 9, 2013)

AZshooter said:


> Another online source for ammo could be ACADEMY SPORTS AND OUTDOORS....$7.99 for 6000 ct Daisy zinc coated steel....For Limited time...Free Shipping on $39 order...I believe they accept PayPal ITEM- 990060-444...SKU#: 01591 1100....PHIL


Fine job "Lookin out", Phil!!! Thanks, man!


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