# Pouch hold question.



## prototypicalDave (Jun 1, 2021)

_Please forgive me if this has been covered somewhere else on the forum. I searched, but didn't really know what to call the grip.
Edit: Also forgive the less than perfect hands, I've run clean out of Palmolive_

I've stumbled across what I think is a great idea, but since I've only been shooting for a couple of months, I wanted to get a reality check.
I shoot TTF and I've settled on focusing on the knuckles up grip since this seemed to work most comfortably for me and allows me to avoid speed bumps.
I've noticed that when viewed across all of the shots that I've taken with that grip I have a tendency to shoot right. This is across different bandsets of varying power and lengths and with 5/16" and 3/8" steel ammo.
I was debugging my release when I noticed that the relationship between my thumb and forefinger is such that my grip on the ammo forces a dirty release. They don't line up parallel. I'm sure that's true for many folks, but in thinking about how I could get my grip identical on top and bottom, I flashed on what little I know about archery technique where the string is held in the first knuckles of the pointer and middle fingers with a finger on either side of the arrow.
I realized that I could hold the ammo pouch in the same way. It ends up looking something like this:









When holding a pull for a shot, My hand wants to naturally collapse into a fist sort of like this:









To release, I just relax my hand.I even messed around with using my thumb to push the ammo between the fingers until it fires.
No drama, no wild shots or fork hits.
I'm aware of the advice to 'hold the ammo not the pouch". I've always understood that as a way to compensate for the difference between the way the thumb and forefinger apply pressure to the ammo. Is there something else about that advice that I haven't understood?
I've taken about 100 shots this way today and the tendency to aim right seems to have been done away with. Elevation has been consistent too, but at the anchor point I've been working with I'm shooting a bit high.
I'm using very light elastic here and I fully expect this to be a real PITA to dial in with heaver stuff and much larger ammo.
What do you folks think? Anyone else here shoot this way?


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## prototypicalDave (Jun 1, 2021)

I can't be the only person that's tried this right? It's works so well for me.
After another 100 shots, both with the single tube setup on my Taurus and looped tube setup on my Scorpion, I can absolutely say that my accuracy is much improved with this grip.
Still not championship level by any means, but better than before by far. That claim doesn't mean much to you all I know, but until I figure out video, you'll have to take my word for it.


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## cromag (Jan 17, 2021)

I agree someone else has probably tried as will I tomorrow because it seems to have some logical applications although i don't think butterfly will be one of them. For short drawing it may add some smoothness to the release if one can avoid plucking like in archery. If I bust up another frame or injure my hand I'll need your address to send you the bills.


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

A number of forum members have posted about this grip over the years. Usually it has been members in my age group (roughly as old as dirt) who use the grip despite arthritis or injury in their thumbs.


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## KawKan (May 11, 2013)

KawKan said:


> A number of forum members have posted about this grip over the years. Usually it has been members in my age group (roughly as old as dirt) who use the grip due to arthritis or injury in their thumbs.


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## prototypicalDave (Jun 1, 2021)

KawKan said:


> A number of forum members have posted about this grip over the years. Usually it has been members in my age group (roughly as old as dirt) who use the grip despite arthritis or injury in their thumbs.


That makes perfect sense. I'm only half as old as dirt but I have had a life long conversation with Tendonitis so I tend to be careful about stuff like this. I think that I'm going to continue with it.


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## Tag (Jun 11, 2014)

That’s how I hold the pouch. If it works stick with it👍 I tried for a long time to shoot like the more seasoned shooters, but after many failed attempts, I settled on this grip.


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## prototypicalDave (Jun 1, 2021)

Tag said:


> That’s how I hold the pouch. If it works stick with it👍 I tried for a long time to shoot like the more seasoned shooters, but after many failed attempts, I settled on this grip.


Good to know, thanks!

I want to learn so I hope someone will chime in with the limitations inherent in this grip. It's obviously not going to work full butterfly, but is that the main weakness? 
Maximum draw weight? Is there a level of control that is impossible with this grip? I have seen some folks 'tweak' the pouch which is difficult with this grip, but I don't know why they're doing it.


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## Reed Lukens (Aug 16, 2020)

I've used that grip myself for a long time when pulling on super heavy bands. It's a good consistent hold when needed 🤠


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## High Desert Flipper (Aug 29, 2020)

I could be wrong but I think I saw Fowler using a similar grip shooting butterfly in a video a while back. And while I am not his hugest fan, if somebody that shoots as well as he does is doing it like that it can't be all bad.


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