36 replies to this topic

[MRSLINGSHOTMAN]

"the butterfly" vs "cheek anchor " .any one familiar with butterfly style shootiing? pros and cons in accuracy and power with the same draw weight ?

[Hrawk]

The longer the draw the faster the bands. Check out some of Torsten's vids. He achieves some amazing speeds with butterfly bands.

[kobe23]

My personal comment on the only advantage of cheek draw over butterfly is the reaction time during fast paced shooting, i.e. when hunting. Butterfly style do give more acceleration and power but will have to get used to shooting it fast paced or fork hits might occur.

[whipcrackdeadbunny]

If you can achieve excellence with butterfly, you have the most powerful way of shooting; the loading time, larger space required and more elastic necessary though, and the differences are small.

[Tex-Shooter]

Some like Ford's and some like Toyota's. Did you notice that I did not use Chevy's any more. That is because I feel like I am paying for one with my taxes and it is not parked in my driveway as of yet! Tex-Shooter

[MRSLINGSHOTMAN]

Tex-Shooter, on 17 June 2011 - 01:48 PM, said:

Some like Ford's and some like Toyota's. Did you notice that I did not use Chevy's any more. That is because I feel like I am paying for one with my taxes and it is not parked in my driveway as of yet! Tex-Shooter

Dont complain my friend , its still dirt cheap compared to where i live a Toyota Camry starts at 150,000 sgd which is 122,000 USD? beat that . if you still feel suckish go here http://www.sgcarmart.com search under new cars , and u can feel my pain . and the price does not include road tax and registration etc etc .

[GreyOwl]

Butterfly shooting may cause addiction!
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[Tex-Shooter]

You may note that I did not complain about the price, but my taxes paying for something that I did not get. Why should my taxes bail out GM when I drive a ford? You see my taxes are buying a car that I am not getting a benefit from. I am a firm believer in free enterprise on a level playing field and not governments helping one company to beat another. You see that would be like a government helping another band maker to undersell me. Hmmm you know that just could be going on to, but I don’t know. -- Tex-Shooter

[Northerner]

I did a bit of a comparison this evening.

Butterfly
Theraband Black - 1 3/8" x 7/8" x 12 1/4"
Draw length = 60"
Draw weight @60" = 6 lb 6 oz
3/8" steel = 238 fps

Face Anchor
Theraband Gold - 3/4" x 8 1/4" straight cut
Draw length = 30" (to ear)
Draw weight @30" = 8 lb 12 oz
3/8" steel = 188 fps

Note: I previously tested Theraband Gold cut to 3/4" x 9/16" x 8 1/4". Draw weight and velocity were slightly less than the 3/4" straight cut.

Cheers,
Northerner

Edited by Northerner, 19 June 2011 - 09:12 AM.

[NaturalFork]

Tex-Shooter, on 17 June 2011 - 08:05 PM, said:

You may note that I did not complain about the price, but my taxes paying for something that I did not get. Why should my taxes bail out GM when I drive a ford? You see my taxes are buying a car that I am not getting a benefit from. I am a firm believer in free enterprise on a level playing field and not governments helping one company to beat another. You see that would be like a government helping another band maker to undersell me. Hmmm you know that just could be going on to, but I don’t know. -- Tex-Shooter

I am with you on this on Tex. I am in the market for a new truck.

[Charles]

Northerner, on 18 June 2011 - 09:04 PM, said:

I did a bit of a comparison this evening.

Butterfly
Theraband Black - 1 3/8" x 7/8" x 12 1/4"
Draw length = 60"
Draw weight @60" = 6 lb 6 oz
3/8" steel = 238 fps

Face Anchor
Theraband Gold - 3/4" x 8 1/4" straight cut
Draw length = 30" (to ear)
Draw weight @30" = 8 lb 12 oz
3/8" steel = 188 fps

Note: I previously tested Theraband Gold cut to 3/4" x 9/16" x 8 1/4". Draw weight and velocity were slightly less than the 3/4" straight cut.

Cheers,
Northerner

Yes, indeed ... it stands to reason that with a greater draw length (within reason) you will get higher velocities. For one thing, your draw weight will usually be greater, so the force on the projectile will be greater. And for another thing, the force will have a longer time to work on accelerating the projectile.



My problem is accuracy. In butterfly mode I am not nearly as accurate as drawing to the face. I am one of those poor folks who aims, rather than shooting intuitively. For me, all the power in the world is of no use if I cannot hit what I am aiming at.



Cheers ...... Charles

[ERdept]

kcmetalic, on 17 June 2011 - 02:04 PM, said:

Tex-Shooter, on 17 June 2011 - 01:48 PM, said:

Some like Ford's and some like Toyota's. Did you notice that I did not use Chevy's any more. That is because I feel like I am paying for one with my taxes and it is not parked in my driveway as of yet! Tex-Shooter

Dont complain my friend , its still dirt cheap compared to where i live a Toyota Camry starts at 150,000 sgd which is 122,000 USD? beat that . if you still feel suckish go here http://www.sgcarmart.com search under new cars , and u can feel my pain . and the price does not include road tax and registration etc etc .

NO thread hijack, but same as in Thailand. Cars there are many, many times their price due to government tax to discourage purchase, not to make money on it really, but people still buy those cars and the roads are still congested.

Just to understand what im saying, think if buying whatever car you have now, but multiply the price by 4

Now back to thread, I seem to be MUCH less accurate with butterfly, but MUCH faster. Some amazing speed, but shots are wild.

Edited by ERdept, 19 June 2011 - 10:41 AM.

[torsten]

kcmetalic, on 17 June 2011 - 04:45 AM, said:

"the butterfly" vs "cheek anchor " .any one familiar with butterfly style shootiing? pros and cons in accuracy and power with the same draw weight ?

I´m a pure "albatross" shooter.

Albatross- pro: much less draw weight for the same speed/power...
Albatross-con: no visible anchor point. Here is the anchor point somethin what you have to FEEL, because he is behind your head! I think this makes it a bit harder to shoot accurate.

If you draw to your cheek or corner of the mouth or to your ear makes it easier to anchor consistently at the exactly same point. Thats a big advantage when it comes to accuracy.

Tough, I like the butterfly style more. I shoot much more accurate with this style than with the fruitfly (short draw) style. I don`t know why.

AND: I LIKE THE SPEED

At least it`s all a question of personal preferences.

Regards
Torsten

[Flatband]

Hey Torsten, you are right on Bud! The speed with "Flying" is unreal, but I 'm a lot more accurate with my normal cheek anchor. How are those Czech guys that have been doing Albatross all their lives? I've heard their accuracy is very good. I'm still learning but I am starting to hit things using the " Fly"! I really like it but it does make your thumb ache after a lot of shots! Flatband

[JoergS]

Gary, if you use bigger ammo (3/4" and up), you can use TobseB's fist grip. It does not require you to twist your thumb in an awkward way.

But since you also have some excellent braced starships, you don't need butterfly for speed anyway. A starship combines draw length and cheek anchor.

Edited by JoergS, 19 June 2011 - 01:34 PM.

[Northerner]

Hi Charles - The draw weight in my example is actually higher for the shorter 30" draw length (8.75 lbs vs 6.375 lbs). The "fly" bands only pull about 75% of the weight of the "face anchor" bands but they give about 25% more power (238 fps vs 188 fps). As you said, the power must come from the longer contact with the pouch. I sure wish I could get decent accuracy when fly shooting.

Hi Torsten - Any good tips on how you get that accuracy with fly shooting? I have watched the Geco vidos a few times but I'm still crappy at fly.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GekoGR

Cheers,
Northerner

Edited by Northerner, 19 June 2011 - 02:33 PM.

[torsten]

Flatband, on 19 June 2011 - 12:52 PM, said:

Hey Torsten, you are right on Bud! The speed with "Flying" is unreal, but I 'm a lot more accurate with my normal cheek anchor. How are those Czech guys that have been doing Albatross all their lives? I've heard their accuracy is very good. I'm still learning but I am starting to hit things using the " Fly"! I really like it but it does make your thumb ache after a lot of shots! Flatband

These Czech guys are really very accurate. But I think not better than other top shooters with fruitfly style. And I think it`s also a question of what style or way you shoot most of your slingshot carreer.

Using the fist grip has disadvantages: the larger ammo you need for this grip is killing the speed. If you will achieve the same speed with this larger ammo, you have to use much stronger bands. And this kills accuracy (ok, not so for tobse )

@ Northerner

I`m not THAT good shooter as you may think when you see some youtube vids. Indeed, I`m very inconsistent, believe me! Sometimes I have a few minutes of some good shooting I`m happy to be able to increase the amount of this minutes the last year a bit.
But seriously, the only tip I have is the same like Smitty: practice, practice and more practice!!

Regards
Torsten

[Charles]

Northerner, on 19 June 2011 - 01:33 PM, said:

Hi Charles - The draw weight in my example is actually higher for the shorter 30" draw length (8.75 lbs vs 6.375 lbs). The "fly" bands only pull about 75% of the weight of the "face anchor" bands but they give about 25% more power (238 fps vs 188 fps). As you said, the power must come from the longer contact with the pouch. I sure wish I could get decent accuracy when fly shooting.

Hi Torsten - Any good tips on how you get that accuracy with fly shooting? I have watched the Geco vidos a few times but I'm still crappy at fly.

http://www.youtube.com/user/GekoGR

Cheers,
Northerner

Right ... I was assuming the same band length for both styles.


Cheers ..... Charles

[wildwilly]

I agree with you Tex-Shooter. I only drive Fords Myself Mainly because they build Quality Vehicles That Last. I think that the motor vehicle bailouts was a big waste of money. The reason they were in the position they were in was because they built crappy vehicles that nobody wanted to own. now they got their money from our tax dollars and they are still building the same crappy cars and trucks. I currently drive a Ford F150 crew-cab thaat is roomy enough for my entire family and as a pluss has a bed to hual stuff in if needed. The only thing i wish I had done was to get one that was 4 wheel drive but i may convert it over one day if I don't decide to buy one that is already.

[TobseB]

torsten, on 19 June 2011 - 03:15 PM, said:

I`m not THAT good shooter as you may think when you see some youtube vids. Indeed, I`m very inconsistent, believe me! Sometimes I have a few minutes of some good shooting I`m happy to be able to increase the amount of this minutes the last year a bit.
But seriously, the only tip I have is the same like Smitty: practice, practice and more practice!!

Regards
Torsten

hey Torsten stapel mal nicht so tief

i meet torsten 2 Weeks ago, and i saw his bad minutes! torsten shoot from 20m on a 5cm Target!
and when he shoots 5 cm besides, he thinks it's bad

ok the Fistgrip is a not a grip for every body but i like it. and right, only for big ammo!
a friend demolished my fork when hi test the Fistgrip!

Regards
Tobse

[Melchior]

Hey Torsten, on the last Geman tournament you were beter than Europe's vice champion, and only a few points under Europe's champion...

[Charles]

O.K. all you butterfly afficianados .... Have a look at my avatar. Yep, that really is me with all that beard hanging down. I have tried a few experiments with butterfly mode, but I have a problem. When I move my head over to try to sight along the bands, my beard hangs over the bands, so when I shoot there is noticeable (to me at least!) beard snatch. Anybody else have this problem?


Cheers ..... Charles

[dgui]

Charles, on 21 June 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

O.K. all you butterfly afficianados .... Have a look at my avatar. Yep, that really is me with all that beard hanging down. I have tried a few experiments with butterfly mode, but I have a problem. When I move my head over to try to sight along the bands, my beard hangs over the bands, so when I shoot there is noticeable (to me at least!) beard snatch. Anybody else have this problem?


Cheers ..... Charles

Your definitely Gorgeous with the Beard so I would say instread of getting it Snatched why not wax it and braid it like the Pirate Captain John Sparrow. It just might also be a Good Look too. Or you could shoot with your arms way above your head. I will try it and see what we can come up with but if I shoot myself I will not post the video. Now there.

Oh Yea, and that is me in the Picture.

Edited by dgui, 21 June 2011 - 08:03 PM.

[Charles]

dgui, on 21 June 2011 - 07:59 PM, said:

Charles, on 21 June 2011 - 05:38 PM, said:

O.K. all you butterfly afficianados .... Have a look at my avatar. Yep, that really is me with all that beard hanging down. I have tried a few experiments with butterfly mode, but I have a problem. When I move my head over to try to sight along the bands, my beard hangs over the bands, so when I shoot there is noticeable (to me at least!) beard snatch. Anybody else have this problem?


Cheers ..... Charles

Your definitely Gorgeous with the Beard so I would say instread of getting it Snatched why not wax it and braid it like the Pirate Captain John Sparrow. It just might also be a Good Look too. Or you could shoot with your arms way above your head. I will try it and see what we can come up with but if I shoot myself I will not post the video. Now there.

Oh Yea, and that is me in the Picture.

You sly dog, you .....!

Cheers ...... Charles

[Norwegian Wood]

I like both styles, and I think my accurasy is even in the two different styles. Thats because I use the same anchorpoint, when I draw behind my ear, or do the full stretch I allways

let the bands barely touch my cheekbone. The downside of butterfly shooting is shorter bandlife and sometimes I get an ache in my thumbjoint.