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Review: 2 of Bill Hays Injection Molded Frames


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#21 RyanL

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 01:55 PM

where can i get one of the scropion ss  i have looked on his web page and they are not listed can someone point me in the right way please

http://slingshotforu...xt-step-begins/

 

He ran an Indiegogo page for support but I'm not sure if it's still open.

 

Otherwise, if you can wait a month or so I'm sure He'll have his website updated to sell them.


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#22 wquiles

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Posted 29 July 2016 - 02:20 PM

I placed my order just 3-4 days ago, so the Indiegogo site was still taking orders.....


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#23 Devil'sRival

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 12:12 PM

where can i get one of the scropion ss i have looked on his web page and they are not listed can someone point me in the right way please

These are from the pocket predator indie gogo. I'm not sure if he's taking anymore pre-orders though. You'll have to check.
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#24 Devil'sRival

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Posted 30 July 2016 - 12:15 PM

^^I'm on Tapatalk and didn't see the 2nd page and the question answered.
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#25 inconvenience

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Posted 10 August 2016 - 07:04 PM

Holy crap these look great.

And how wide are those fork tips? It looks like you could just split a strip of TBG in half and band it up on those suckers.
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#26 RyanL

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:24 AM

Holy crap these look great.

And how wide are those fork tips? It looks like you could just split a strip of TBG in half and band it up on those suckers.

I did a late night shooting session last night but I forgot to grab the measurement.  My guess is 1.5" on the scorpion and about 1.25", maybe a tad more, on the rangerOTT.  In the pictures of the original post the scorpion had 3/4" tourniquet bands from simple shot, love those things.  And the ranger had 7/8"-5/8" TBG.  I've been enjoying these things so much those band sets are long gone.



#27 truthornothing

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 09:46 AM

Just measured the Scorpion tips its pretty close to 1.5 give or take a 1/32"



#28 RyanL

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:06 AM

Just measured the Scorpion tips its pretty close to 1.5 give or take a 1/32"

Thanks Truth.  When am I going to see your write up on these.  For some reason I'm curious about the differences in all the HTS you now have. 


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#29 inconvenience

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:10 AM

Nice. Those are some of the largest fork tips in the slingshot world. You can use single layer band sets even for hunting. Especially the .050 PP sells.
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#30 truthornothing

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Posted 11 August 2016 - 10:12 AM

 

Just measured the Scorpion tips its pretty close to 1.5 give or take a 1/32"

Thanks Truth.  When am I going to see your write up on these.  For some reason I'm curious about the differences in all the HTS you now have. 

 

I have been getting killed at work so haven't had time enough to shoot my frames enough to give a solid review. I will try this weekend if I can keep myself from building another frame instead. 

 

:) 



#31 RyanL

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Posted 20 September 2016 - 02:23 PM

UPDATE:

These frames have been great!  I've been exclusively shooting these two and my SPS over the last month or so.  The Scorpion has definitely got me back into TTF but the fun of OTT still has my attention.

 

The Ranger OTT,

Originally I was shooting this more.  Obviously liking OTT a little better, I gravitated to it.  My thoughts and feelings toward this frame haven't changed from my original post.  Complaints about this frame?  Not much just personal preference stuff that wouldn't pertain to most people.  This frame has been through a bit rougher life compared to the Scorpion.  I've dropped it multiple times, it's had 3 or 4 fork hits and it continues to be a distraction tool for my kids so they don't wonder down range.  They hit it against things and drop it themselves.  The material has held up great.  Even with all that the frame looks brand new.  No scratches, no dents, nothing.  Final thoughts, it's a great frame.  The grip area is a little big if you have medium or small hands.  Thumb support grip will work fine but pinch grip has been the ticket for me.

 

The Scorpion,

Even though I originally gravitated to the RangerOTT,  the Scorpion is the frame I now grab when I want to shoot.  I said I was going to add an aiming dimp but I haven't yet.  The frame has been great with out it.  There was a little casting material left on the inside of the fork that "might" have cause some pre-mature band failure.  That's a big might, it's the only thing I can logically point a finger at.  It was easily sanded down and haven't had an issue since.  This was a pre-production frame, so I'm unsure if this will be an issue for others.  When my wife shoots with me this becomes her slingshot and I shoot either the RangerOTT or my SPS.  Paraphrasing her, she says the frame is very comfortable in hand(I agree).  Because of this, she's able to comfortably shoot a stronger band set than what she uses on the Ranger Target TAC she used to shoot(I promise, I'm not sponsored by Bill(yet :) ) this was just what she liked).  She also stated that the frame is very accurate and not very forgiving.  She stated this very neutrally but I could sense it was a slight negative to her.  I see how that can be a bad thing.  However, my argument is that this can help you be a better shooter.  With a more forgiving frame, little tweaks to your stance, hold or release may not really affect your point of impact that much.  Those types of frames are easy to pick up and enjoy.  But a less forgiving frame, in my opinion, gives you more feed back to those little tweaks helping you understand how your movements affect the shot.  Effectively making you a better shooter.  Again this is all my opinion, that has shown to work for me and while coaching my wife.  Moving on.  This frame might be too accurate.  For me that is.  With my standard target set up, I get bored with shooting quickly.  Now there is a ton of good that comes from this.  Biggest being, I'm trying more difficult shots pushing my abilities further.  And while this is a good problem to have.  I've noticed my desire to shoot has lessened and I don't like that.  Not trying to get too deep into the psychology of it but this is what I think about when I think about this frame.  None of that is a complaint or praising of the frame, just my thoughts and experience with it.  If I'm concentrating I shoot very well, if I'm being lazy it shows.  It took me a little bit to find my grip on this.  I know that sounds weird since it's obviously a pinch grip frame but let me explain.  I was shooting fine but felt like I could do better, plus after a long shooting session my hand would hurt from over gripping the frame(squeezing it very tightly).  So after messing with my grip I did find a positioning that helped with even better consistency and minimized the pain from a tired hand.  Final thoughts, it's amazing.  It's a great TTF frame.  Dare I say, the best.  Even though it's obviously a pinch grip frame, find your own grip with in that.  It's limited on band and attachment options but I'm okay with that.  This frame is a dedicated design and it does what it's designed for very very well.

 

I know this post is overloaded toward the Scorpion but this frame is a game changer.  It's changed my approach to shooting, helping it evolve even further, and offers a great take on an iconic frame not everyone(myself included) would've been able to obtain otherwise.  Is this the frame for everyone?......NO.  Not everyone will like this frame for various reasons.  Sadly some won't simply for their view of the maker.  Some won't like it because of it's size, that it's only for flat bands TTF, that it's only pinch grip.  All that is fine.  You have to enjoy what you're shooting.  I enjoyed these.



#32 Tag

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 04:28 AM

Excellent review RyanL !!!

#33 inconvenience

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 08:27 AM

Thanks. My next project was going to be an OTT Ranger and this settled it.

I don't see half of this stuff on his store.

#34 inconvenience

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 11:50 AM

Some won't like the Scorpion because they don't like Bill? I'm glad I missed that drama I guess.

I am back to OTT but if I still was heavy into TTF the Scorpion seems like a no brainer. I haven't even held one and I can tell it should be the picture illustrating the word ergonomics.

I wouldn't care if Mao and Stalin designed something if it works.

Does anyone know if he plans on marketing any of his OTT slingshots besides the mini aluminum ones?

I just re-read the part of the review about the scorpion being "too accurate." I guess I'll have to take your word on that. I have times where I almost can't miss a tablespoon, but that's as far as I am right now. The thing holding up my accuraccy is mostly hand instability, not aiming point. I want to try a fully pinch grip slingshot as I imagine it must lend to stability.

Anyway. Thanks for the really great review.

Edited by inconvenience, 21 September 2016 - 11:56 AM.


#35 RyanL

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 01:19 PM

Some people just rub other people the wrong way.  I'll try to leave it at that.  p.s. I'm not trying to rub any one the wrong way  (no dirty jokes implied)

 

Hitler designed the VW Bug, a lot of people like those.

 

Once Bill gets the first production shipments in this next week and things are set up to mold these in the states, I'm assuming he'll update his website for ordering them.  That may take a couple months though.

 

Let me explain the too accurate statement.  With my typical target set up(2 1/2" metal lid, 10m away)  I'd regularly be on target 70-80% with normal shooting.  And it would be a fun goal to really focus and try to get 100% on target.  With the Scorpion, I am easily 100% on target.  Once I counted 54 consecutive hits before the target had a hole that the ammo just kept passing through.  While technically none of this is bad.  It just gets boring.  There is no challenge to overcome.  So I've had to come up with more challenging target options that are still fun.  I don't want to focus train all the time when shooting a slingshot.  I want it to be fun.  So new set ups have been card cuts, bottle shots(shoot the opening of a soda bottle and have the bottle catch the ammo), plastic silverware sideways, plus some other small fun targets(typically stuff that makes a mess when hit).



#36 inconvenience

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Posted 21 September 2016 - 10:54 PM

Right on. Well. I'm just getting to tablespoon size targets. When I'm not trying to make a video I hit about 80% when dialed in.

If I ever get to the point you are at with the Scorpion I will work on speed and moving targets.

I don't think I'll ever have the too accurate problem :P But it's good to hear that such quality gear exists. And It's not the worst thing that could happen to a shooter ;)

#37 pult421

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Posted 07 October 2016 - 05:33 PM

These scorpions will be very affordable. All of them will be. And worth it.

#38 RyanL

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Posted 26 October 2016 - 12:03 PM

Guess I need to re-name this to "3 of Bill Hays..."

 

Just got my perk in the mail and wanted to share my feelings.  If you remember from my first post, in return for my participation, I requested the Top Shot.  I've wanted the Top Shot for a while but for personal reasons(being a cheapskate) one never came into my possession.  Obviously, that's changed.  Like getting the SPS, I have to fight my excitement of obtaining something I've wanted since my interest in slingshots began in 2013.  These are obviously first thoughts since I've only shot 75 or so shots with it.  Holding it feels good maybe a little on the small side for me but I have been shooting the RangerOTT and Scorpion a lot so my hands are used to those at the moment.  I tell myself I like smaller frames but I shoot more consistently with bigger ones.  However, like my recent post on this topic, (when not competing) being too accurate takes the fun out of it for me.  

 

I tested this frame with a couple different band options.  I like a frame's ability to use flats or tubes equally effectively but it makes me want to try all options right away.  So, when you're just getting used to a new frame, that may not be a good feature.  Have more will power than me and stick with one type/size of band set until you're used to a new frame that has options like that.  The reason I say that is because of fork hits.  I had one with all four sets I tried and one set guilty of 3 total.  My form just couldn't adjust fast enough to the changes in pull weight, length and snappiness causing the fork hits.  This may not happen to everyone, it was just my experience.  I picked the set I liked and will stick with that for a bit.  Thankfully this material holds up.  No marks what so ever.  Over all a good frame.  The orange color I picked looks good and I don't feel the shine is too much.  The shine is more than the other two I have but it doesn't bother me.

 

I only have a couple negatives for the frame.  Really there's only one real "issue" the other is just something people may not like.  That issue is some surface cracks on the grip area.  I think these are formed because of shrinkage during the cooling process.  They look to be only ascetic and I feel fine about using the frame.  Neither the Scorpion or RangerOTT have these marks. 

 

When shooting tubes with a thumb support grip I got some slap on my thumb.  I didn't notice it with a pinch grip but it's definitely there with thumb support.  I get this same thing with Simple Shot's Torque.  I believe my thumb is positioned too close to the holes.  Not a big deal just something to note. 

 

That's it for concerns.  Like all frames, it was designed to fit in the hand well and throw a projectile with rubber.  It does that well.  I can't deny that this will probably become one of, if not the, go to shooter for me.  I don't have a definitive factual reason for that other than personal preference.  It just hits most all of my preferred check list for a frame and I shoot well with it.

 

I tried Theraband Black, Latex Tourniquet bands, Single 1842 and pseudo 2040

20161026_1135011.jpg

 

I liked the pseudo 2040 most and for now I'll stick with that

20161026_1133491.jpg

 

Compared to the RangerOTT since they are molded together

20161026_1135431.jpg



#39 inconvenience

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Posted 18 November 2016 - 11:10 PM

Just saw you added the Topshot. Wow, it really is a small frame.

I finally got my Ranger and I LOVE IT. I am particularly surprised and pleased with the heft and feel of the polycarbonate. I was worried it might feel much more like lighter plastics.

#40 inconvenience

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Posted 29 December 2016 - 02:27 PM

The Topshot is now my EDC. I got a Boyscout (Universal Sideshooter) in today and I think I finally understand about the "too accurate" comment. Not that I'll ever be too accurate, but it is shocking to be hitting a tablespoon at 33' within minutes of opening the package.

I also switched to a thumb down grip and I'm hitting dead on. It's also let me add about 6 inches to my draw so far.

Edited by inconvenience, 29 December 2016 - 02:33 PM.





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