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Woodland Survival Flipper


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#1 Warhammer1

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 06:58 PM


I know you guys think my designs suck but...



Finally. Someone who understands my work. Time for the bigs boys to move over. (PSE, Bowtech etc).

Lightest bow to be on the market 300fps plus, powered by rubber bands.

Watch out world, torsion is gonna rule again.

haha a one pound hunting bow - gotta love it.

#2 ZDP-189

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Posted 24 January 2011 - 08:53 PM

I really like it as a toy and it's really compact for a crossbow, but would not stake my life on it as a survival tool or self-defence weapon.

#3 HOE

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 08:27 AM

This thing is interesting! It just needs to be bigger to pack some serious power. It's too small for practical uses.B) Awesome.

#4 Warhammer1

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Posted 25 January 2011 - 03:11 PM

Keep the comments and or suggestions coming good or bad. Remember this is not MY product, but almost an identical set-up. Im gonna send the inventor to this thread to review it. If it needs to be changed in your opinion to be a marketable product, please remember the man has a lot of money time and effort into it. Your input can only make it better and more usable. A larger variety of product for the slingshot fans of the world.

What ya like about

What ya dont like about it

Suggestions for better bands or type of bands, attachmenting etc.

Thanx

Warhammer1

This thing is interesting! It just needs to be bigger to pack some serious power. It's too small for practical uses.B) Awesome.



#5 Warhammer1

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Posted 27 January 2011 - 01:14 AM

Whoops, sorry board. Didnt realize someone beat me to the punch on posting it here. So this is a duplicate thread-sorry. Dennis the inventor called me today and we had a good chat. Glad to see the response on the first thread was pretty good!


Keep the comments and or suggestions coming good or bad. Remember this is not MY product, but almost an identical set-up. Im gonna send the inventor to this thread to review it. If it needs to be changed in your opinion to be a marketable product, please remember the man has a lot of money time and effort into it. Your input can only make it better and more usable. A larger variety of product for the slingshot fans of the world.

What ya like about

What ya dont like about it

Suggestions for better bands or type of bands, attachmenting etc.

Thanx

Warhammer1


This thing is interesting! It just needs to be bigger to pack some serious power. It's too small for practical uses.B) Awesome.



#6 whipcrackdeadbunny

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Posted 28 January 2011 - 10:18 AM

It's pretty complex for a survival tool, but I bet it would serve as a small game getter ... not sure about much else though. I like the band-changing set-up, and it looks very simple to use. If it was larger, it would be better, but still complex.

#7 Devoman

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 09:06 PM

I think it is cool, I would love to have one in my collection, might make a killer froggin rig! Ribbit

#8 NaturalFork

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Posted 01 February 2011 - 11:57 PM

Whoa whoa whoa ... i dont think they suck. I think it is genius.

#9 Jax

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 04:42 AM

A very nice target shooter and hunting tool for smaller game, with proper bands maybe for something bigger too but as survival tool? Looks like all those protruding parts might either get damaged or get in the way in challenging terrains like jungle or thick woods and I wouldn't like to have to worry about it when climbing trees or rocks or squeezing through narrow spaces.
Limited use for self defence as it looks slow to operate.
Apart from this it's a well thought and neat concept. I think it should find some market.

#10 HOE

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 06:29 AM

I think that it should be made cheaper so that more people can afford it. Cost is a big problem because the materials used must be the best.:unsure:

#11 Sam

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Posted 02 February 2011 - 12:03 PM

I really like it as a toy and it's really compact for a crossbow, but would not stake my life on it as a survival tool or self-defence weapon.


My thoughts exactly, it looks like a blast to play with, but I definitely wouldn't rely on it as a 'survival tool' that being said I wouldn't rely on a slingshot either...

#12 Warhammer1

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 06:36 PM


I really like it as a toy and it's really compact for a crossbow, but would not stake my life on it as a survival tool or self-defence weapon.


My thoughts exactly, it looks like a blast to play with, but I definitely wouldn't rely on it as a 'survival tool' that being said I wouldn't rely on a slingshot either...


Think of the Woodland Survival Flipper to my designs as you would think of "Bambi" to the "Predator" movie. Both are critters with some hair. Same with the inswinger designs.

A custom "Flipper"is being made for me, and hopefully a caloboration(s) will occur. My designs ran afoul (again) of patent rights.

It isnt who comes out with the original design. Its who patents it first. I was beat to the punch lacking money, but managed to gain some limited manufacturing rights.

If you like the inswinger promise of more performance as I have insisted on for sometime, keep an eye on youtube and hopefully you will see the results of my years of work. The crossbow world is in for a shake up also.

I feel I must apolagise to JoergS somehow. I knew if I posted some design, he could not resist to JoergS-ize it. He has now made it famous and the 20% improvement is significant. I will share further designs as patent(s)permit and will have vids on my blog.

While I have never found a reason to go past 30 lbs pull (300fps plus), I am going to order some black tube bands from Chief AJ's site.

A BIGGGGGGGGGGG thank you to JoergS for making the ballista slingshot video.

As a thank you I will share that the power can be increased in the slingshot model by attaching the lower lever band directly to the main "throwing" arm. JoergS will need a "stop" to keep the lever in the required position so it will load, but it will mean more power is available for the "lower" end of the powerband or torque curve.

Also, JoergS has access to a physicist whom I would love to have access to. Watch as I turn the little machines power to "flechettes". Destruction of concrete items will be no prob.

#13 Warhammer1

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Posted 10 February 2011 - 07:03 PM

A very nice target shooter and hunting tool for smaller game, with proper bands maybe for something bigger too but as survival tool? Looks like all those protruding parts might either get damaged or get in the way in challenging terrains like jungle or thick woods and I wouldn't like to have to worry about it when climbing trees or rocks or squeezing through narrow spaces.
Limited use for self defence as it looks slow to operate.
Apart from this it's a well thought and neat concept. I think it should find some market.


I spoke to Dennis about the video and share many of your comments which I passed along. Expect a more serious "flipper" to come out.
The inswinger design is 48% faster than conventional bow designs, 20-25-% faster than reg. slingshots, more if designed differently than what JoergS has. Crossbow machines can be most any speed you desire.

The Woodland is a STage two design. WAtch out for the STage Three and four. If you are a pure "far out speed freak" then keep track.

Working on a SHTF bow/crossbow/slingshot combo for Zombie Hunters and Survival fans.

#14 JoergS

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 02:46 AM

Hey Warhammer, thanks for the tip. I respect your intellectual property and yes, I was inspired by your original hint about using two mousetraps for the design.

I have no intention to ever sell or mass produce this design, I made the slingshot for my own personal use only and therefore won't infringe any patents you may have.

When you say that it is better to attach the lower rubber bands to the main throwing arm, does that mean to attach both bands to the same end of the arm? The reason I attached the lower rubber to the shorter end of the arm is to use the speed increase that the leverage effect generates. Like a trebuchet, where the heavy weight is attached to the shorter side of the pole as well.

Thanks

Jörg

#15 Warhammer1

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 08:58 AM

[quote name='JoergS' timestamp='1297413969' post='55020']
Hey Warhammer, thanks for the tip. I respect your intellectual property and yes, I was inspired by your original hint about using two mousetraps for the design.

I have no intention to ever sell or mass produce this design, I made the slingshot for my own personal use only and therefore won't infringe any patents you may have.

- Hi JoergS. Actually the way I described is better for other weaponry that have a better range in motion. Most inswinger levers or arms at rest are normally at a 12 oclock position. However you have found (as I have) that you need to cant the lever inwardly when using powerbands. The idea behind it is that you introduce force closer to the tip of the arm or lever where it has a much greater effect. Normally 50% of the draw of an inswinger is generated during the first 35 degrees of rotation, which has to be eliminated to a great deal when using powerbands.

With an inswinger, you want to inject as much horizontal movement into the acceleration equation as possible. NOrmally acceleration has a horizontal AND a vertical component. A slingshot has 95% or better vertical. The more effecient way is to use the rubber like I do the metal spring, and use a string to pull back on. Using a pulley on the limb tips does not work that great on an inswinger and powerbands, but a string works great.


When you say that it is better to attach the lower rubber bands to the main throwing arm, does that mean to attach both bands to the same end of the arm? The reason I attached the lower rubber to the shorter end of the arm is to use the speed increase that the leverage effect generates. Like a trebuchet, where the heavy weight is attached to the shorter side of the pole as well.

Simplicity of design. If the smaller lever is one inch, the same effect could be had by attaching the powerband one inch from the axis on the main lever. With ballistas when you change one thing, you have to change something else. The bottom lever can now be used as a "heel" that can come into contact with a stop, or it would continue its rotation (acceleration) on past 12 oclock.

So how does one get around this? You have a neat mind for trigger systems. A few posts could hold the arms in the required position for a powerband - controlled by a pistol grip trigger to raise it into place. Once you start to draw, the posts would drop away so that your limbs now have an extra 30 plus degrees of powered travel upon release. Not great for speed shooting,but some really sic stuff is now able to happen.


Again thank you for the youtube vid acknowledging the inswingers inherent superiour velocity potential. You accomplished in one short video what I have been trying to do in my own backward way for many years. One thing about the patent though. Dennis the Woodland Survival Flipper guy already has a patent covering most of what I have been doing, but hoping we can work together as I can teach him a lot. He is a really nice fellow, and watch for new things. Dennis got ahold of me because some of my designs appear to infringe on his patents.

We came to arrangement to where I can now make and sell my designs without fear of infringement or legal trouble. I know you cant use wrist braces in Germany, but an extended fork model like the pic I posted REALLY rocks. I get about a foot more of travel without the butterfly release or stance. Im going to get some black bands from Chief AJ site and try them. I've never seen the need to use over 30 lbs though, and 25lbs is a comfortable level for me for extended shooting periods. I originally built it as a hunting model for large game, but it so was so much fun to use in the basement its never seen the woods. The reason I built it so large is it cannot be hidden easily and used for either poaching or as a concealed weapon.

The axle to axle distance is 14 inches, with five inch levers. Larger than some of my crossbow ballista bolt on kits. I designed to appeal more to the archer, as it is a great instinctive shooting tool for moving targets, and the handle can be made vertical or horizontal.

On your next inswinger model, sweep the arms back a half inch minimum, if wished make the handle so that it rotates and eliminates hand torque for a consistant and reliable aiming point.

So with any luck and a lot of money, I may become a vendor here offering a few of my designs. Slingshot forum is the first place I publically disclosed my inswinger designs, so I have only one year to file if I am going that way. I will need a few folks to test designs and provide design feedback. I know you guys like flatbands, and JoergS inswinger is a great way to test their durability.
BTW JoergS, if you EVER decide to part with your inswinger slingshot, I'd love to have it - signed of course! It will have a place of honor in my little collection of metal frames.

Warhammer1

#16 zille

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 12:33 PM

Think of the Woodland Survival Flipper to my designs as you would think of "Bambi" to the "Predator" movie. Both are critters with some hair. Same with the inswinger designs.

A custom "Flipper"is being made for me, and hopefully a caloboration(s) will occur. My designs ran afoul (again) of patent rights.

It isnt who comes out with the original design. Its who patents it first. I was beat to the punch lacking money, but managed to gain some limited manufacturing rights.

If you like the inswinger promise of more performance as I have insisted on for sometime, keep an eye on youtube and hopefully you will see the results of my years of work. The crossbow world is in for a shake up also.

I feel I must apolagise to JoergS somehow. I knew if I posted some design, he could not resist to JoergS-ize it. He has now made it famous and the 20% improvement is significant. I will share further designs as patent(s)permit and will have vids on my blog.

While I have never found a reason to go past 30 lbs pull (300fps plus), I am going to order some black tube bands from Chief AJ's site.

A BIGGGGGGGGGGG thank you to JoergS for making the ballista slingshot video.

As a thank you I will share that the power can be increased in the slingshot model by attaching the lower lever band directly to the main "throwing" arm. JoergS will need a "stop" to keep the lever in the required position so it will load, but it will mean more power is available for the "lower" end of the powerband or torque curve.

Also, JoergS has access to a physicist whom I would love to have access to. Watch as I turn the little machines power to "flechettes". Destruction of concrete items will be no prob.


This I'll be eyin' with pleasure, arrrr. ;) I love the design, its transportability and the promise of a huge amount of power in further designs. Please keep us updated, I would definitely buy one of these.

#17 slingshot awesome

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Posted 11 February 2011 - 02:17 PM

sweeeeeeet :banana::woot:

#18 Warhammer1

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Posted 12 February 2011 - 10:19 AM

sweeeeeeet :banana::woot:


Thanks, but it will be a little while yet for the slingshot, but perhaps we can speed it along. JoergS mentioned wanting to build a smaller one. I still have the first one I built from a coathanger just wanting to get the general shape of my first prototype.

JoergS has already got a design the Gloveshot that is almost identicle to my first with the exception of the swinging arms etc, it which worked pretty good with ordinary elastic bands,outshooting a crappy pistol crossbow.

If he'd like to work with that and is something you guys would like to own, perhaps that can be my introductory model? My big slingshot is intended to be more archery oriented in the way it is held and shot, and the extended forks really kick out some extra juice. Most folks here like the compactness of a reg. slingshot, so perhaps a smaller one is he way to go.

I suggestion is to make the lower main arm so that when drawn, an arrow can be rested there. I used a bit of plastic attached to the tip of the arm (detachable). When released the arrow rest simply swings away. I can help with details to max. speed. With a string,overall the best ratio for a wide variety of weights and projectiles is arm length is one third of distance between axles. With the powerbands, longer arms give better leverage for better rotation. The inswinger slingshot machine favors shorter powerbands, longer arms.

The very fastest machine I have built to date is a inswinger slingshot with multiple levers. It worked only for a few shots as the axles were taped and wired on, but it was jaw droping what a little quarter inch hex nut will go through at just six grams. I only recently figured out what happened as the little machine was pulled out of shape resulting in the hyper speed. So plans for a new prototype is there.

I know you guys will want to try and build your own, so please be safe. Aside from powerbands breaking and hitting you in the face, there may be a piece of arm or lever attached to that.

I'll be sending my slingshot to Dennis of the Woodland flipper and see what he thinks about making a few ones up with lightweight high strength stuff.

#19 Pellethuntr

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 08:12 AM

I don't think your designs suck Hammer!!! Ive enjoyed your posts here.. I think that becuz it's a slingshot forum all these guys are a little primitive (no offense boys im a fan of primitive weapons) but to see what can be done with low draw weight is incredible!!! thanks for this it's given me some awesome ideas.. P.S. to those who say it does not have enough draw weight for larger game.. I think you are wrong, it states shooting arrows at 300+ thats on par with what my compound does at 70lbs.. the velocity is what makes the arrows penetrate, so at ranges of around 20 yards I think from my experiances with bow hunting that those arrows with a broad head on them would probably make a complete pass through on most of the whitetails we have here in NY.. I would like to see penetration tests with this bow vs. a compound claiming to shoot around the same velocity at a higher draw weight I believe they would be similar

#20 JoergS

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Posted 13 February 2011 - 11:54 PM

While it is true that a low draw weight and high speed is fascinating, I would like to see what this design can achieve with a HIGH draw weight.

Of course you need a heavier arrow as well.




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