77 replies to this topic

[flippinout]

Some wood begs for careful and attentive sanding to bring out its beauty and character. Is it necessary for function? Absolutly not!

220 will get you a smooth finish- functional and finished. Going further will get you that and something to enjoy with your touch, eyes, and pride in ownership. The extra work is the pleasure of the act of creating, the enjoyment of the process, and the joy of sensing the beauty of a highly finished and refined tool that is both tool and art.

I will dither in both camps as I always have and lend my support to all you terminal sanders out there, you are not alone!

[monoaminooxidase]

You certainly got a point, dayhiker. but the fact that sanding for hours is an easy job most of the time is a part of why I like it. After carving and rasping and worrying and cursing I just like to see the thing get more and more shiny without having to think too much about what I'm doing. And as for slickness, I find beeswax always gives enough grip.
But yeah, I'll think of you next time I put the used 240 sandpaper in the bin and reach for 320.

[Bob Fionda]

I like to finish a natural to the finest sand-paper I can find. Acutally I do up to 2500 and that's a very very fine grip. I have no expectations on myself to be a catapult-maker, nor an artist, I just enjoy making them as much as I like, it makes me feel good and relaxed as well as when I go out shooting cans. I don't know really what is right or wrong to make a catapult, I believe that if a catapult fits one's hand well she's good, it does't matter how it's finished, if it's raw or fine sanded and waxed. I don't like to make categories among makers, shooters or just "lovers of impractical stuff" because it tends to divide rather than connect each other. I appreciate your threads Bill, you are stimulating us and this may be good, but I think that our treasure is given by our ability to put together individual. Thanks, best. Bob.

[Dayhiker]

Okay guys we have had our "war". You all know which side I'm on. Nathan made the only point I will agree with for the other side, and that is that some woods do require finer sanding to bring out their true potential. Black cherry and walnut come to mind.

@ Hrawk: All I can say is, nice. But so what? It's supposed to be a slingshot. Its exceeding beauty does not elevate it above, for example, one of Nathan's masterpieces. But I'll bet it's smoother.

Edited by Dayhiker, 05 February 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Dayhiker]

Bob Fionda, on 05 February 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I like to finish a natural to the finest sand-paper I can find. Acutally I do up to 2500 and that's a very very fine grip. I have no expectations on myself to be a catapult-maker, nor an artist, I just enjoy making them as much as I like, it makes me feel good and relaxed as well as when I go out shooting cans. I don't know really what is right or wrong to make a catapult, I believe that if a catapult fits one's hand well she's good, it does't matter how it's finished, if it's raw or fine sanded and waxed. I don't like to make categories among makers, shooters or just "lovers of impractical stuff" because it tends to divide rather than connect each other. I appreciate your threads Bill, you are stimulating us and this may be good, but I think that our treasure is given by our ability to put together individual. Thanks, best. Bob.

Well, Bob, I can't help it. I cannot help but ask myself what I am doing here. Is it a practical art or a fine art. Of course it can be either. But what I'm asking is, am I an artist or am I an artisan. I have chosen artisan. Others want to be artists I guess. Nobody's right or wrong, and I don't want to divide the community. I'm just pointing out that it's already divided. That's all.

Nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
(bad paraphrase of Shakespeare)

Edited by Dayhiker, 05 February 2012 - 09:17 PM.

[Hrawk]

Dayhiker, on 05 February 2012 - 09:06 PM, said:

@ Hrawk: All I can say is, nice. But so what? It's supposed to be a slingshot. Its exceeding beauty does not elevate it above, for example, one of Nathan's masterpieces. But I'll bet it's smoother.

I like to make my slingshots using acrylics because it is something different. I don't want to be making carbon copies of something everyone else is doing. I want my work to be unique and stand out from the crowd.

Yes it is supposed to be a slingshot and that's exactly what it is. I like to take pride in whatever I make and try to make it to the best of my ability. I'm not happy with taking short cuts then looking at something later and thinking I could have done better. If this takes a bit more sanding, so what, it's fun to do and you get a real sense of achievement holding the finished product.

Being able to aim THROUGH the fork tip rocks !!!

[Dayhiker]

Okay, Hwrak. So for you real smooth is good but maximum smooth is better. But you are talking about acrylics. Acrylic slingshots are works of art in my opinion. If you do not highly polish them they don't look good and the whole point of making them out of acrylics is looks.
So I'll just consider you more of an artist than a craftsman. There is no problem there. In this war we are on opposite sides. But nobody can actually win this war, ha ha.

[Hrawk]

Lol you're right.

Thanks for the compliment calling me an artist. Usually I just get called an alcoholic

[f00by]

I can understand where you are coming from DH. For the record, I also lie in the realm of perpetual sandpaper. Personal perference and to each their own I have no problem and, in fact, love shooting my cattys that i have shaped, sanded and finished to my personal quality standards

With this take on things, where do you stand with boardcuts? Seems to me that this would also lie generally in the artist area...

-f00bs

[wombat]

haha I see a trade coming up between dayhiker and hrawk!!
as for me I'm a 240 guy. BUT I don't skip my grits...100, 120, 180, 240 with a 320 wet/dry between finishing coats.

[newconvert]

Hrawk, on 05 February 2012 - 05:45 PM, said:

Dayhiker, on 05 February 2012 - 05:20 PM, said:

Are you a sculptor or a maker of slingshots? What does ultra smoothness contribute?

Why can't a person be both ? Is it a crime to go the extra effort on a slingshot and turn it into a work of art ?

There is one place where ultra smoothness is a big benefit and that is the fork tips. The smoother the finish, the less abrasion and wear on the bands.

agree, any part the bands touch i like to be very smooth or ad with 107 cut offs

[Blue Danube]

Lol what if you are not "average" and want true depth of finish as a craftsman?

The finer the wood finish the more uniform each coat of sealer and top coat will be. I prefer my work finely finished, I can go from gloss or deep satin in two steps.
If you use low grade lumber or multiprex 220 or 320 grit is about right, if you use an exotic or burl wood anything less than 600 grit will look like crap.
Just my limited experience working and selling all kinds of wooden implements, boxes, cases, knife handles,knife scales, humidors, jewelry boxes, etc etc over the past 40 years

The design and execution of work are more critical than finish for functionality, if the frame is junk design nothing will make it grip better, if you try to make a buffalo killer by overbanding this becomes more apparent.

do whatever you want if you are happy and having FUN who cares, mine are a legacy to be passed on and appreciated by who ever owns them

[f00by]

[NaturalFork]

Well whatever dayhiker uses is pretty **** smooth.

However I know that when I sand I use 500 as my last stop. I like things really really smooth. And with a poly or glue finish they are very grippy.

**** I'm smooth.

[newconvert]

i think every creation has its use, and each wood type has its qualities, some woods would not like a good 600 grit sanding, some would. if i wanted the end product to look like Hrawk's ice shooters i would get a nice tight grained wood and just do that! make it shine, the ergos you build into a handle would be sufficient to prevent the ss from slipping out of your hands, or if that is not enough than put a lanyard on it. i have seen Bill Hays, Nathan, Hrawk, and many others with some pretty shiny beauties that i would be proud to carry and shoot, on the other hand most board cuts are fairly flat so you would need the traction of the rough sanding, both are great and work equally well, in the end its up to the user, i think a shiny toy with a few bumps and bruises just has more character, just like us older guys. yeah buddy!

[Danny0663]

Quote

do whatever you want if you are happy and having FUN

Totally agree.

[Bob Fionda]

Dayhiker, on 05 February 2012 - 09:15 PM, said:

Bob Fionda, on 05 February 2012 - 07:52 PM, said:

I like to finish a natural to the finest sand-paper I can find. Acutally I do up to 2500 and that's a very very fine grip. I have no expectations on myself to be a catapult-maker, nor an artist, I just enjoy making them as much as I like, it makes me feel good and relaxed as well as when I go out shooting cans. I don't know really what is right or wrong to make a catapult, I believe that if a catapult fits one's hand well she's good, it does't matter how it's finished, if it's raw or fine sanded and waxed. I don't like to make categories among makers, shooters or just "lovers of impractical stuff" because it tends to divide rather than connect each other. I appreciate your threads Bill, you are stimulating us and this may be good, but I think that our treasure is given by our ability to put together individual. Thanks, best. Bob.

Well, Bob, I can't help it. I cannot help but ask myself what I am doing here. Is it a practical art or a fine art. Of course it can be either. But what I'm asking is, am I an artist or am I an artisan. I have chosen artisan. Others want to be artists I guess. Nobody's right or wrong, and I don't want to divide the community. I'm just pointing out that it's already divided. That's all.

Nothing is either good or bad, but thinking makes it so.
(bad paraphrase of Shakespeare)

Now I see. Ok, thanks for your point of view. Best, Bob

[hawk2009]

I have just read every post on this subject wow some of you are really serious about the finish, I don't know anything about wood or what to use for finishing those products. All I did when I started making slingshots was find something cheap but strong (mdf). My router does a top job so hardly any sanding is needed when cut, so I apply the bees wax whack it in the microwave to dry it for 30 seconds wipe it with a cloth lightly sand with 400 paper varnish it with two or three coats, I don't sand in between coats so it's a little rough all I do is make sure the varnish is dry and sit it on top of the radiator for a few minutes, 400 is the finest paper I have so if I get a new piece it's to rough so rub it together to smooth it off when it feels right I get the wife's furniture polish spray it on the slingshot and rub it down with the paper it takes just a couple of minutes one last wipe with the cloth and it's done.

[Jaxter]

mdf isn't that strong be careful

[pop shot]

If you have a wood with nice figuring and grain features, the full potential of the wood only comes out with fine sanding. When I've got a figured piece of wood I try to sand down as far as I can. But normally, I stop around 220.

[Dayhiker]

This has been a great thread. I thank each and every one of you who posted.

To be perfectly honest, what motivated me to start this was the fact that I am sick to death of sanding. I am beginning to really dread it.

I agree that some woods really do require that you sand them and polish them. But I only work in naturals and plywood for the most part. So this was coming from my perspective. The only way I can up my game is to start using better woods(better looking, that is), and that would require me to spend lots more hours just rubbing and rubbing in order to justify using them

OR I could spend lots more money on tools and equipment. Going into retirement in June means that starting now, I just ain't gonna have that kind of money to spend on more tools.

So I had to take a look at myself and my hobby. I wanted to get your thoughts on this and I certainly do appreciate them. Thanks again guys. I will now try and settle into my own sweet spot and just sit back and enjoy what I'm doing.

[Performance Catapults]

Cocobolo is exotic to me, and still, all I use on it is 220.

[Incomudro]

There's room for every approach as far as I'm concerened.
While I won't deny that a glossy finish might be slippery on a sweaty day, I glad to see that some slingshot makers go this route.

Different takes by different builders give guys like us more options, and more styles to collect enjoying what each design and designer has to offer.

Variety is the spice of life.

[harpersgrace]

Sandpaper, really don't use it much. Most of the time a good scraping gets it smooth enough.

[smitty]

One thing I don't think has been mentioned is that the choice of finish determines the amount of sanding that must be done. Using a high build sanding sealer before the finish coats makes sanding the bare wood less important. This doesn't have to take long either, especially if lacquer is chosen for the entire process, (even stain), if used. Sand bare wood up to 220 until no scratches remain from shaping, apply one coat of Hi-Build lacquer sanding sealer and sand with 220 only until powder shows, apply second coat of sanding sealer and again sand with 220 lightly, use tack rag to wipe off powder and apply first coat of lacquer, sand, tack wipe, then apply last coat of lacquer. This will produce a super fine finish with a minimum of sanding, because sanding sealer is so easy to sand.
If something like danish oil is chosen, then only fine sanding of the wood will determine the smoothness of the finish.
If a thin veneer is applied to the project, then this would require the least amount of sanding necessary on bare wood to produce the finish desired. The veneer could easily be sanded through and ruin the project.
It ain't cheating if you use a sanding sealer to get the high gloss look you may want. They made it to cut way down on sanding bare wood.
I like the feel of the wood when I am done, so I like to use oil because it soaks in and doesn't build up on the surface. When it looks and feels like I want I let it dry and shoot it. Much later, wax can be applied for maintenance.