19 replies to this topic

[Rayshot]

Here is something either I haven't seen used or just glazed over it somewhere.

I tried pulling my bands one time through the yoke and shooting with the bands tied in a regular TTF tie off. I noticed it sounded quieter due to not slapping the forks.

This may not be anythign revolutionary but I like that it may not abuse the bands as much (if it matters in the long run of band life).

I shoots the same and is as easy to pull the bands back through the forks and load. I slide my finger down the,top band towards the pouch while extending the bands up away from the fork tips to be sure the bottom one clears the top of it's tip. It straightens the band and presents the pouch perfectly for loading.

Very smooth and fast!

 DSC01978.JPG   75.95K   7 downloads

Perspective when shooting at a tiny piece of Thera blue on the floor.
 DSC01977.JPG   81.64K   5 downloads

Edited by Rayshot, 01 February 2012 - 11:18 AM.

[M_J]

I seem to recall trying this on the Moose TTF slingshot I used for a while. I'm sure it's quite a bit quieter and probably easier on the bands.

[Knoll]

Narrow fork gap would be problematic?

[newconvert]

great, i was going to try this, i have been wondering if there was a reason why all ttf was done on the outside of the forks? seems like as long as the pouch would fit through the forks it would work well if not better possibly improving your point of aim? i have a few i am gonna try right away

[Charles]

newconvert, on 01 February 2012 - 01:38 PM, said:

great, i was going to try this, i have been wondering if there was a reason why all ttf was done on the outside of the forks? seems like as long as the pouch would fit through the forks it would work well if not better possibly improving your point of aim? i have a few i am gonna try right away

What Rayshot is showing is the standard Through The Fork configuration ... TTF ... the bands pass through the fork at draw. If you arrange your bands so they go Outside The Fork at draw, then you have an OTF arrangement. The frame he is showing is suitable for either TTF or OTF arrangement of the bands.

Sorry guys ... once again, I plead for terminological consistency. I seem to have become the designated pedant. Please see:

http://slingshotforu...sary-and-slang/

Generally TTF is quiter than OTF because the bands do not slap the forks. But TTF is less reasonable as you move to frames with narrower throats. The drawback to TTF is that with narrow throated frames, the bands tend to foul the shot.

Cheers ...... Charles

[Velhet]

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

[Charles]

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

[Velhet]

Thank you Charles for clarifying this !

[NaturalFork]

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

Since when are you the ambassador of slingshot terminology? Go shoot your PFS and tell me where the bands go after the shot old man.

Edited by NaturalFork, 03 February 2012 - 12:36 PM.

[Scrambler84]

I myself like shooting through the fork when I was a youngster think I had one fork hit . Not unless your a really bad at slingshots TTF is no Problem.
Right now working on a sling with TTF and intend on shooting it that way.
Myself cannot see how people get fork hits anyway LOL but I guess its possible .
I have also gotten used to shooting over the top ..
But also shooting TTF causes you to be more accurate I think thats just me what I think

Edited by Scrambler84, 03 February 2012 - 12:41 PM.

[Charles]

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

Since when are you the ambassador of slingshot terminology? Go shoot your PFS and tell me where the bands go after the shot old man.

Heavy sigh ... we have had this discussion before, Natural Fork. I wish it did not upset you so. Clamp a PFS in a vise, so there is no flip of the frame, draw it with no twist andrelease it with no flip of the pouch ... and you will have a fork hit. For a high speed video demonstration, have a look at the following:



Clearly if Joerg did not flip down, the ball would have hit the slingshot.

As I have said before, everyone is free to use language any way they see fit. But without some consistency, communication is impeded.

Cheers ...... Charles

[NaturalFork]

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

Since when are you the ambassador of slingshot terminology? Go shoot your PFS and tell me where the bands go after the shot old man.

Heavy sigh ... we have had this discussion before, Natural Fork. I wish it did not upset you so. Clamp a PFS in a vise, so there is no flip of the frame, draw it with no twist andrelease it with no flip of the pouch ... and you will have a fork hit. For a high speed video demonstration, have a look at the following:



Clearly if Joerg did not flip down, the ball would have hit the slingshot.

As I have said before, everyone is free to use language any way they see fit. But without some consistency, communication is impeded.

Cheers ...... Charles

I was only kidding with you Charles. ... i still stick with my story though!

[Charles]

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

Since when are you the ambassador of slingshot terminology? Go shoot your PFS and tell me where the bands go after the shot old man.

Heavy sigh ... we have had this discussion before, Natural Fork. I wish it did not upset you so. Clamp a PFS in a vise, so there is no flip of the frame, draw it with no twist andrelease it with no flip of the pouch ... and you will have a fork hit. For a high speed video demonstration, have a look at the following:



Clearly if Joerg did not flip down, the ball would have hit the slingshot.

As I have said before, everyone is free to use language any way they see fit. But without some consistency, communication is impeded.

Cheers ...... Charles

I was only kidding with you Charles. ... i still stick with my story though!

Thanks, Natural Fork. Without the nuances of direct communication (body language, voice tone and volume, etc.) it is sometimes hard to read another's intentions.

Cheers ... Charles

[newconvert]

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

now your talking

[newconvert]

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

Since when are you the ambassador of slingshot terminology? Go shoot your PFS and tell me where the bands go after the shot old man.

Heavy sigh ... we have had this discussion before, Natural Fork. I wish it did not upset you so. Clamp a PFS in a vise, so there is no flip of the frame, draw it with no twist andrelease it with no flip of the pouch ... and you will have a fork hit. For a high speed video demonstration, have a look at the following:



Clearly if Joerg did not flip down, the ball would have hit the slingshot.

As I have said before, everyone is free to use language any way they see fit. But without some consistency, communication is impeded.

Cheers ...... Charles

i knew this to be true before you stated it, mt new PFS from Shawnr5 has the indents on the forks from not flipping

[newconvert]

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 02:28 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 02:24 PM, said:

NaturalFork, on 03 February 2012 - 12:29 PM, said:

Charles, on 03 February 2012 - 11:31 AM, said:

Velhet, on 03 February 2012 - 11:15 AM, said:

I may be wrong but ... Are they not right assuming that they are 2 configurations possible in the TTF if
it is when the band is released.

• Over the top = a band set-up that allows the bands to fly over the top of the forks
  
• Through the throat, through the fork = a band set-up that allows the bands to go through the "V' opening or throat

In the first description the bands fly over the top of the forks. The band is in action (released).
If your band go through the opening (when released) and I think it is the case ... then it should be TTF, no ?

If you look at high speed videos, you will see that on almost any set up, unless you do a very strong flip, at least part of the bands are going to pass through the fork gap. It is a total myth that the bands fly over the top of the forks, unless you are doing a very strong flip at the instant of release ... that is, unless you are moving the fork tips down at the instant of release. The phrases TTF, OTF, and OTT are properly used to refer to the orientation of the bands when under draw. Used this way, the terms actually tell you something about the slingshot ... used any other way, the terms depend on so many factors peculiar to the individual making the shot that they become practically meaningless.

Cheers ...... Charles

Since when are you the ambassador of slingshot terminology? Go shoot your PFS and tell me where the bands go after the shot old man.

Heavy sigh ... we have had this discussion before, Natural Fork. I wish it did not upset you so. Clamp a PFS in a vise, so there is no flip of the frame, draw it with no twist andrelease it with no flip of the pouch ... and you will have a fork hit. For a high speed video demonstration, have a look at the following:



Clearly if Joerg did not flip down, the ball would have hit the slingshot.

As I have said before, everyone is free to use language any way they see fit. But without some consistency, communication is impeded.

Cheers ...... Charles

I was only kidding with you Charles. ... i still stick with my story though!

Thanks, Natural Fork. Without the nuances of direct communication (body language, voice tone and volume, etc.) it is sometimes hard to read another's intentions.

Cheers ... Charles

i really do understand what you are saying Charles, it once explained is a no brainer......... except! stick and flat or bareback shooters? i am looking for a vid in slo mo to understand these variables

[Charles]

Stick and bareback shooting have the same physical force constraints as pfs and flat top shooters. If you neither flip nor twist the pouch, you are going to be in for some nasty surprises. The bands are pulling the center of the ammo to the point at which the bands intersect the stick or your finger ... half the ammo above, and half below. Gavity is pulling the ammo toward the center of the earth. If you do not either move the "frame" out of the path of the ammo (flip shooting), or provide a small upward force on the ammo (twist the pouch for a "speed bump" effect), then the lower half of the ammo is going to contact the "frame". Sorry, I do not have at my fingertips a link to high speed video of a stick shot or a bareback shot.

Cheers ..... Charles

[Tex-Shooter]

We did bench resting of over the top style with several different sizes of pouches and found that when the slingshot was locked up in a clamp with one tip right over the other, like my avatar picture there was a correlation between fork width, pouch length and accuracy. In conclusion, I came up with my pouch size and between the fork tip dimensions. With a 31/32 by 2 3/4 pouch and 2 1/2 inches between the fork tips the bench sit up would shoot less than 1 inch groups at 10 meters. When we closed the tip dimension or increased the pouch size the group, the group increased. There was more to these tests, but you can get the idea. Now this is not true of a flip shooter or a band roll shooter. -- Tex

[Charles]

Interesting results, Tex. Thanks for that!

Cheers ..... Charles

[Hisownself]

Tex, I'm very interested in your experiments. Would you be interested to share more details with me (off line). I was planning to use a statistical tooled called DOE (Design of Experiments) to look at many slingshot factors. Sounds like you might have many of them already.