33 replies to this topic

[ZDP-189]

In a real fight, at the height of their powers, Bruce would have punched Chuck's clock. Discuss. Using images only.

[Hrawk]

[Hrawk]

I do have to admit though, Bruce Lee sounded like a constipated canary in most of his fight scenes.

[SlingGal]

Mainly for movies, was the "waaahh oooo" noise Bruce apparently made. I do have to think about the fact that the movies I saw, we're *dubbed* in English, so we're the sounds dubbed in, or did Bruce really make those sounds?

Jeet Kune Do as a concept of fighting, was and still is a great concept. One of the original MMA's before the modern MMA thing got big. :-D

-Restita

[AaronC]

I cannot find an images that asks which one of these two has won international level martial arts competitions?

[slingshot_sniper]

All very pleasing to the eye but none of it means anything once the real battle begins,take whatever you see in movies or books with a pinch of salt....that is all

[ZDP-189]

Come on people, pictures!

[Hrawk]

[Aras]

friendship wins

[Bill Hays]

Chuck would have won. The first time I met him was after winning a tournament in Fort Worth and he presented the trophy etc.. At the time, when we shook hands, I literally had to look down and see that thing... it felt like I was shaking a ham. Anyway, after that we all went out to dinner and we all got the scoop on him versus Bruce Lee.
Chuck was very humble about it all, but it was easy to tell that he felt he had superior strength and size... which does make a huge difference, and is precisely the reason they have weight classes in the first place.

Anyway, I don't know which would have come out on top in a no holds barred contest... but I do know that the little guy on the right in the picture below would have been able to take care of the winner.

Edited by Bill Hays, 04 December 2011 - 11:21 AM.

[fishjunkie]

very cool what style do you pratice? i train in ikdo no my body is to wornout and broken do anything

[SlingGal]

You do Aikido, FishJunkie? I did Aiki for only 2 years unt my schedule prevented me from going to class. I practice/teach Kajukenbo, Eskrima, Wushu and Tai Chi. I do Kyudo also, but do not teach it. But after too many years of being hitting a floor in Kajukenbo and Wushu, I'm primary doing Tai Chi. Lol!

-Restita

Edited by SlingGal, 04 December 2011 - 10:00 PM.

[Charles]

I don't knock the martial arts at all. I like to watch. I also like to watch boxing matches. But I must say I am amused at discussions of which martial artist could beat which other martial artist in an "all out" fight. Real fights are full of too many imponderables. Here is a little story to illustrate my point.

When I was a kid, living with my Grandmother, I was out one evening strolling the fields with a gun and a dog. Out of the woods walked a distant cousin of mine, Tom, who would have been in his 30s by then. He was a very big ole country boy, with an extremely bad reputation. He was known to take on half a dozen locals at once when a bit in the juice and thoroughly stomp them all ... strong as a bull, head like an anvil, yet fast as a snake.

When he came out of the woods toward me, he had a big knife in his hand and was covered in blood ... turned out to be someone else's. He had been making moonshine with a partner, and they got into a fight. He had just killed the guy. He wanted my grandmother, his aunt, to drive him into town to see his wife, who was having a baby. He knew they were going to put him in jail, and he wanted to see her before they nailed him. We walked to the house, and he began begging "Aunt Alice" to drive him the 40 miles or so to the hospital to see his wife. She absolutely refused, but said she would take him about 4 or 5 miles down the road to the next house and he could ask them. We waited outside while Granny went into the house, changed her clothes, and got her purse. To say I was worried does not begin to cover how I felt at the time. Granny got in to drive holding her purse in her lap, while I sat in the middle, and Tom sat by the door. When we got to the next house, Tom did not want to get out, and he began to whine again. Granny talked to him like you would a dog, while I just cowered there in the middle, thinking the world was about to end. But Tom eventually got out, and we turned around and drove home without a word. When we got home, I finally asked Granny if she wasn't afraid. She just said "Heck, no", as she pulled a revolver out of her purse. If Tom had given either of us any serious grief, she would have shot him on the spot. I once saw her shoot the head off of a quail at about 50 feet with that pistol, just to prove she could do it. She did not fool around.

Tom wound up going to prison for the murder ... deemed to be not too serious ... alcohol involved, a couple of local bad apples in a fight, perhaps self defence, perhaps not. In prison, Tom was a bit of a terror. He eventually wound up on a prison farm. He harrassed a little guy about 5 foot 5, weighed maybe 135 pounds. One day Tom turned his back and the little guy almost killed him with the edge of a shovel. After Tom got out of the hospital, he calmed down quite a bit ... took a new view of life, so to speak.

My point in relating these two incidents is just that in a real fight, with no rules except to survive, it is very, very difficult to predict what is going to happen or who will "win".

Cheers ....... Charles

[Hrawk]

Charles, on 05 December 2011 - 07:27 PM, said:

But I must say I am amused at discussions of which martial artist could beat which other martial artist in an "all out" fight.

Excellent, that is the whole purpose of the thread

[Hrawk]

[Hrawk]

[AaronC]

Great story Charles. Thanks for posting it!

Chuck Norris was a middleweight who won 183 tournament fights, won the highest martial arts trophys in the world, and was an 8th degree black belt. What did Bruce do again? Oh yeah, he was a lightweight that made movies where he pretended to fight actual fighters, and never actually fought an a single tournament. Find me a picture for that.

[pgandy]

Admittedly both are superior martial artists. I don’t know, nor care who would come out on top in a match. I wasn’t much of a fan of either mainly because what I had seen of them they were acting out a script and not being themselves. However after watching Bruce Lee play ping pong I have a healthy respect for his abilities with a nanchaku. He’s not bad with matches either, to say the least.

[Hrawk]

Oh man, that is AMAZING !!!

[AaronC]

Yeah, it would be amazing....if it was real!

http://www.zerzle.co...plays ping pong

[Hrawk]

What gave it away ? The Nokia add that came up in the middle ?

Spoil my troll why don't you!

[pgandy]

Sorry guys. I had book marked the video some years back. After reading Nightknight’s post I did some searching and came up with this. My highest esteem for Bruce Lee just went.

Edited by pgandy, 07 December 2011 - 08:07 AM.

[Bill Hays]

Lol, they also have another video where he's supposed to be striking thrown matches. Very funny stuff. They show that they took the striker off the side of the box and attached it to the end of the nunchaka.. then "swish swish fwew" he's able to strike a match a man is holding in his teeth... and then he's shown striking the matches when thrown.

There are problems with the video... they didn't have to use safety matches when Bruce Lee was alive, and in fact there were several brands that it possibly could have been legitimately done with... like Ohio Blue Tips for example.
Anyway, the CGI technique used is very similar to the way where John Wayne, Frank Sinatra and Elvis Presley are in more modern commercials. Not real, not even memorex... totally made up. If you can create an entire Jurrasic Park's worth of dinosaurs in CGI... it's really not that much of a challenge to to make a gritty old looking video starring pretty much anybody you'd like, doing pretty much anything you'd like.

[whipcrackdeadbunny]

I used to be quite the expert on Bruce, a few years ago, I could have told you his favourite breakfast, and recited his training reigime. In a 'real ' fight, I think Bruce would have won hands down; even though Bruce was an actor, he was a martial artist first, and you can see the difference in styles in the Way of the Dragon clip (in particular, the point where he rips the hair out of his chest, which is not a classic martial maneuver) Bruce, in his classes, would teach biting, eye gouges, foot stamping etc. but also, he would practice the limiting of his telegraphing to a high degree, making it very difficult to read his intentions. But don't expect to see him at his best on film, as I understand it, he was quite capable of distinguishing the difference himself. When it comes to Chuck, I understand that if you look at the timeline, it was his lessons with Bruce, which gave him the edge, and meant he could go on to be world Karate (sorry, I don't know the specific styles) champion, many times in a row. Just like Muhammed Ali, who learnt his famous footwork, from Bruce (I believe) but definately revolutionised the world of Boxing, by using Bruce's punching style, to be able to knock out opponents with both arms (instead of just jabbing with the left, and hooking/uppercut/crossing with the right). I'll see if I can find some links for you ... and Bill, you met Chuck Norris, that's amazing! Did he get food caught in his beard?
And on a personal note, though training helps a lot, there is no garuntee at all; my neice, when she was six, could pin me to the floor on occasion, this is because there's no such thing as a perfect style (as far as I know).

Chuck Norris as other well known martial artists in the 1960s were training with Bruce Lee. Joe Lewis and Mike Stone were very upfront about this, but Chuck Norris has down played his time with Bruce Lee as merely to guys getting together to train. However, after the death of Bruce Lee, Lees appointment book was made available and it had notations such as "Tuesday 1:00pm lesson for Chuck Norris". This supported the belief Norris was there for lessons with Bruce Lee.

Read more: http://wiki.answers....s#ixzz1fyFHeqv9

There is an excellent bit written on Bruce on the IMDB page, but it's quite long, and has a couple of innaccuracies.

I think John Little is the best resource for any Bruce info, he wrote a series of books, and is well worth any time you have to spare, for such a great man.

The man, the myth ... who was Bruce Lee; was he really a fighter, or just a showman. And why is there three conflicting stories about his death, from his best friend, Dan Inosanto, his wife, Lynda Lee, and his doctor.

Taken from Layton West's JKD home page.

Bruce Lee Death
Bruce Lee's untimely death shook Hong Kong and Martial Arts fans all over the world, as well as people who respected and admired this aspiring legendary hero. The end of his life was considered to be under the strangest of circumstances, and still draws sensationalism and controversy, with a number of theories surrounding his tragic death. Rumours concerning the cause of his death range from Lee being killed by Hong Kong triads (gangsters) because he refused to pay them protection money, to his being killed by an angry martial artist's dim mak (death touch) strike for having angered the martial arts community by revealing ancient secrets to foreigners, to drug use. Many people also claimed that it was the work of Oni (Japanese for Demons or evil spirits), while others believed he was cursed. The theory of the "Curse of Bruce Lee" carried over to the equally tragic death of his son, Brandon Lee, who was shot and killed during the filming of The Crow in 1993.

On July 20, 1973, Lee was due to have dinner with former James Bond star George Lazenby, with whom he intended to make a film. According to Lee's wife, Linda, Bruce met producer Raymond Chow at 2 pm at home to discuss the making of the movie Game of Death. They worked until 4 pm, and then drove together to the home of Betty Ting Pei (丁珮), Taiwanese actress who was to also have a leading role in the film. The three went over the script at her home, and then Chow left to attend a dinner meeting.

A short time later, Lee complained of a headache, and Ting pei gave him a tablet of analgesic. At around 7:30 pm, he lay down for a nap. After Lee didn't turn up for the dinner, Chow came to the apartment but could not wake up Lee. A doctor was summoned, who spent 10 minutes attempting to revive him before sending him by ambulance to Queen Elizabeth Hospital. However, Lee was dead by the time he reached the hospital. The ensuing autopsy found traces of cannabis in his stomach. There was no visible external injury; however, his brain had swollen considerably, from 1,400 to 1,575 grams. Lee was 32 years old.

A similar incident had occurred a few months before. On May 10, during the final dubbing of Enter the Dragon, Lee suffered a sudden attack of seizures and a cerebral edema which was not fatal. The neurosurgeon who saved his life in May, Dr. Peter Wu, said that he removed a considerable amount of hashish from Lee's stomach. Bruce, whose entrained paranoia grew with his international fame, had been chewing hashish to calm himself. Dr. Wu, who is renowned for his cerebral edema research in Asian males, said that various neurological problems associated with hashish had been recorded in Nepalese men. Bruce was very vulnerable to the effects of drugs due to his extrememly low body fat. Dr. Donald Langford, Lee's physician in Hong Kong, said that Bruce's body had less than one percent body fat, that "it was obscene how little body fat he had." Bruce Lee weighed only around 128 pounds at the time of his death.

Dr. Langford says that, "This man was muscled like a squirrel, spirited as a horse. I've never seen anybody as physically fit as Bruce. Analgesic is prescribed in the million-dose range every day in Asia. Nobody dies from one tablet of Equagesic. No analgesic killed Bruce. In my opinion, the cause of Bruce Lee's death is obvious. Every time I saw him after May 10, he was further and further into his own hype. I don't think that Bruce thought that there was anybody in the world who knew what was good for him except Bruce Lee. That's what killed him. Dr. Wu agrees: "I think that Bruce was fully convinced that he was invincible, that he was immortal. This is what brought him down."

Cerebral edema was recorded as being the result of an allergic reaction to the analgesic he took combined with medicine he took for back pain that he sustained after pinching a nerve in his lower back while doing deadlift exercises without properly warming up—a condition that left him in a wheelchair. Fortunately, contrary to his doctor's prognosis that he would never kick again, Lee regained his athletic prowess, better than ever. Yet, it left with him a lifelong pain in his back.
He is interred in Seattle's Lake View Cemetery.

[Bill Hays]

Definitely Bruce Lee was an inspiration to a generation of Martial Artists. The physical feats he was proven to be able to do are so amazing and numerous, there's simply no need to embellish with made up videos of things that never happened.

Anyway, out of the ring... is a whole different ballgame. You have to consider things besides martial arts expertise as well that will figure into the fight's outcome. Things like drive, willingness to do real harm and pain tolerance are at least if not more important than martial expertise... Bruce Lee was incredibly driven, as was Chuck. Both had high tolerances for pain... so in my opinion it would come down to who is most willing to cause a real crippling injury. Size and strength come into play here... it's easy for a larger person to inflict a serious injury causing blow than a smaller person. Chuck was bigger and stronger, Bruce Lee was faster.
Bruce Lee would have gotten off the mark first, but if the blow wasn't absolutely perfect, Chuck Norris' counter attack would have ended all the speculation.