37 replies to this topic

[AJW]

I just had a heads up on shooting .. or rather handling lead. If your handling lead at all, you should be careful about touching food your face, mouth or eyes and inadvertently contaminating yourself. Whatever lead gets into you body accumulates and stays there and it's very toxic, nasty stuff, it causes all kinds of serious health problems. When you finish shooting, clean your hands well to remove all traces of lead.

From Wikipedia:

"Lead, at certain exposure levels, is a poisonous substance to animals. It damages the nervous system and causes brain disorders. Excessive lead also causes blood disorders in mammals. Like the element mercury, another heavy metal, lead is a neurotoxin that accumulates both in soft tissues and the bones."

"Excessive" isn't very much. If your casting lead for ammo, the fumes are toxic. I don't think it does your nose hair any good either.

Prevention is the only thing, there isn't much in way of cures. It's one of those things we don't really think about, but we have to be aware.

Al

[AaronC]

I don't shoot lead very often for that very reason, and shoot steel. I don't like handling it. That is why I wish balls in some of the heavier metals like copper or tungsten were more readily available (price being the factor).

[Henry in Panama]

I think the dangers of handling lead balls is way over rated. I've been handling lead since I was a boy, with no ill effects. We used to put lead sinkers on our fishing lines and bite down on them to make sure they got a good grip. I long ago lost count of how many squirrels, ducks, doves, quail, and how many pounds of venison, all killed with lead shot I have eaten. The danger from lead is if you eat it or breathe a lot of lead dust. In my opinion, if you exercise reasonable caution, and wash your hands after handling lead you have very little to worry about. As with almost all things in which the government gets involved, the dangers are exaggerated.

[AaronC]

Henry, personal experience plays into it for me. A friend of mine named Adrian who had an IQ in the 150s was exposed somehow to lead (the Drs and he don't know how) and it caused him to struggle with even the most simple tasks. They said that he might be back to normal in 20-30 years. It makes me skiddish, even though the performance of lead shot is higher than steel.

[tubeman]

I have to agree with Henry. I used to shoot a match .177 air rifle in private premises a few years ago and used a flat circular 6" x 1" disk of lead as a backstop. This was because I was fed up replacing phone books as backstops, and hit on the idea of melting down in a small pot the pile of used pellets I had, and using the resulting lead slab as a backstop. As this absorbed fresh pellets it just grew in thickness and I regularly melted it down again and skimmed it to make a new backstop. This does not seem to have affected my health in the slightest. Thanks.

[spanky]

Makes me wonder this lead job,What about pencils used in schools-Kids were forever chewing their pencils in the old days.

[orcrender]

Pencil lead is actually graphite.

[spanky]

Right mate,Didnt know that,Mind you at my age theres not much lead in me pencil anyway.

[tubeman]

Perhaps it's all in you head now spanks. You do make me giggle mate :-)

[spanky]

Got to have a laugh mate every now and again.
The wife also likes to have a good laugh-usually when i am getting undressed.

[Henry in Panama]

NightKnight, on 11 September 2011 - 01:34 PM, said:

Henry, personal experience plays into it for me. A friend of mine named Adrian who had an IQ in the 150s was exposed somehow to lead (the Drs and he don't know how) and it caused him to struggle with even the most simple tasks. They said that he might be back to normal in 20-30 years. It makes me skiddish, even though the performance of lead shot is higher than steel.

I'm not telling people they should use lead, and if they do, they should take reasonable precautions, but I have seen several posts where people are convinced that lead is a very dangerous, highly toxic metal. I believe the danger is highly overrated.

In your friend's case, who knows? He may have stripped and repainted furniture or even an antique car that had originally been painted with lead based paint and not worn proper protection. Or he could have eaten paint as a child. BTW I just looked up some stats on blood lead levels, and the biggest factor in the US seems to be not being white, with black males at highest risk.

[-SRS-45-]

yeah like henry says its just excercising a little caution, I'm sure you handle all sorts of chems and stuff around the kitchen and stuff, and if you do any work in the garage with chems. Carbon monoxide is pretty leathal but I'm sure you know not to turn your engine on whilst shut in the garage... just read up on it and be safe.

Don't use it for target shooting though if you don't catch your ammo, I don't think the odd shot matters but I think you've got to excercise a bit of responsibilty also and not spread it around lots, especially on beaches and stuff where kids play.

James

Edited by -SRS-45-, 11 September 2011 - 03:16 PM.

[AJW]

Henry, I certainly wouldn't argue with you about it, if you can get anything out of those charts, you're a better man than I am Gunga Din. It does however sound cavalier to ignore the fact that lead is a real danger and the fact that you can feel it and see it on your hands after you have been handling it.
I'm not afraid of it, but if I'm going to err, I would prefer it be on the side of safety, and I will be careful.

[Northerner]

I found my lead history information. Someone might find it interesting.

I had high lead levels back in the mid-90s when I shot a lot of powder burning handguns at a small indoor range. We had a group of guys who competed with .38sp revolvers and once a week we would shoot 180 rounds each (PPC). I sometimes shot an extra day each week for practice. After a couple of years we all had our blood checked. I was at 1.9 emol/L and some of the other guys were 1.9, 2.7, 3.4, and 3.6 emol/L.The guys with the higher lead levels didn't even cast their own bullets. I casted and also shot. My doctor said that an acceptable level is below 1.0 emol/L (metric measurement).

The filtering system at the indoor range was definitely not keeping up with the lead that we were throwing around. Sometimes the fog got quite thick. I ended up quitting the sport after we started using canister masks when shooting indoors. The outdoor season was too short to keep my interest. A couple of years after quitting, my blood lead level dropped to 0.17 emol/L. All the while I kept shooting high volumes of airgun pellets (indoors) with a soft trap for a backstop (no lead dust). It's been almost 15 years since my handgunning days and with barely a trace of lead in my blood, I don't bother getting it checked any more. The problem was with the airborn lead dust that was created from lead bullets smashing into the metal backstop and also from primer residue in the air. Handling airgun pellets many times a week did not seem to stop my blood tests from dropping to the normal level.

Cheers,
Northerner

[bullseyeben!]

I raised this concern with the bloke who makes our leadlight doors at work, he 8hrs a day, works with lead, & laughed when I asked... I think you'll be fine he said... he goes to the quack every year to get a reading done, and he's fine... if it concerned you, you can go to the doctor and have a test, but reasonable caution and common sense should see ya through no worries..
Ben

[wombat]

haha well that helps explain why so many shooters are "shooting blanks!!"

[bullseyeben!]

wombat, on 12 September 2011 - 02:18 AM, said:

haha well that helps explain why so many shooters are "shooting blanks!!"

Lol I thought I was too, until 3weeks ago, I found out I'm gonna be a dad! Due in March the lil fella, well, I hope its a fella...

[Henry in Panama]

Northerner, on 12 September 2011 - 12:09 AM, said:

I found my lead history information. Someone might find it interesting.

I had high lead levels back in the mid-90s when I shot a lot of powder burning handguns at a small indoor range. We had a group of guys who competed with .38sp revolvers and once a week we would shoot 180 rounds each (PPC). I sometimes shot an extra day each week for practice. After a couple of years we all had our blood checked. I was at 1.9 emol/L and some of the other guys were 1.9, 2.7, 3.4, and 3.6 emol/L.The guys with the higher lead levels didn't even cast their own bullets. I casted and also shot. My doctor said that an acceptable level is below 1.0 emol/L (metric measurement).

The filtering system at the indoor range was definitely not keeping up with the lead that we were throwing around. Sometimes the fog got quite thick. I ended up quitting the sport after we started using canister masks when shooting indoors. The outdoor season was too short to keep my interest. A couple of years after quitting, my blood lead level dropped to 0.17 emol/L. All the while I kept shooting high volumes of airgun pellets (indoors) with a soft trap for a backstop (no lead dust). It's been almost 15 years since my handgunning days and with barely a trace of lead in my blood, I don't bother getting it checked any more. The problem was with the airborn lead dust that was created from lead bullets smashing into the metal backstop and also from primer residue in the air. Handling airgun pellets many times a week did not seem to stop my blood tests from dropping to the normal level.

Cheers,
Northerner

Thanks Northerner,

That reinforces my point that just handling lead poses a very low risk. If you eat lead or breathe lead dust, you are in danger. If you cast lead, take reasonable precautions, i.e. good ventilation and don't get molten lead on your skin. If you shoot lead balls, wash your hands when done.

Henry

[Northerner]

It's the airborn dust that causes the big problems. Lead absorbs easily into our blood system through our lungs. We need to be cautious when casting and ensure proper ventilation. We also need to be cautious when shooting high velocity lead projectiles at metal backstops (indoors). Also be sure to wash your hands after handling lead and don't eat your lead ammo or store it in your mouth.

Between my high lead test and normal test I shot over 40,000 lead pellets in my basement (target shooting over several years). During this period I had 4 large coffee cans full of pellets that were taken from my soft trap. All these pellets were shot without gloves but I did wash my hands after shooting.

Cheers,
Northerner

[spanky]

I cast my own lead ammo,But use bbq for heat source and cast outdoors.Dont want to risk getting a lung full of fumes if casting indoors.

[gamekeeper john]

i dont think handling lead is a problem, before i brought my gamekeeper range out i worked as a roofer for 5 years, we used lead for the flashings above windows, porches and chimneys, me and all the lads who i worked with was handling it on a day to day basis, surely if it was bad for you it would come with a warning? i have also been casting my own balls for about 5 years now, i have never had a problem with lead and dont know anybody who has! to be honest if you put any metal in your mouth or rub your eyes after handling it you risk some sort of infection, personaly i think lead is one of the SAFEST ammo you can use, steel balls bounce back at nearly the same speed has they left the pouch, stones and marbles shatter on impact and could easily go in your eye, if you shoot a lead ball at a wall it absorbs the impact and drops to the ground, with a little precaution lead is probaly the safest............ sorry for babbling on but thats my opinion lol

[spanky]

[Jacktrevally]

Guys, you should always keep in mind that it depends on the individual! Some people immune system is not the same as others.

I was always told this thing is a hazard even you learn that in heatlh and safety.

The fumes and dust has a level of toxicity.

It depends how your body evacuate or deals with it. In my case, when I was casting it, I had no ill effect but I know a few that suffered from headache. Trust me, you don't want to be sniffing those fumes especally in a close kitchen!

I wonder why, it is ban in petol we use in our car and in paint!

It's no good to say it is safe when others can suffer from it.

A bit like abestos! I sold those for a few years before the ban! I was never ill with it? Is ir safe???

Edited by Jacktrevally, 12 September 2011 - 12:11 PM.

[NaturalFork]

Ok I had to.

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[AaronC]

NaturalFork, on 12 September 2011 - 12:15 PM, said:

Ok I had to.